Updates! Project Cars, SEMA, EVs, and a Glitch

Hello. Welcome back. This is the universe podcast. Thank you for joining us. My name is Ross Ballet.

I am here with Dan Roth, who is back after a semi-brief hiatus. And just a preemptive thank

you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for joining us. I know our release protocol has

been a little off, but it's not your fault. It's not your fault. Don't blame yourself.

Our recording has been sporadic. And ultimately, we're all here to just talk cars and have a good

time. If it'll get people responding to us, though, like if it kind of juice this engagement,

you can write it in just comments and just blame me. It's fine. Right? Any publicity is good

publicity, right? Yeah. So anyways, it's November 5th. We find ourselves already in the fall

on the tail end of 2025. It's crazy how, you know, the year and time pass and the auto industry,

you know, it's like same as it ever was. It's still there. It's the Talking Heads video. Same

as it ever was. Yeah. It's named David Burnton. David Burnton. Yeah. Got a new record. It's pretty

good. He was on a big tour, but, you know, we're not here to talk about David Burnton and his,

you know, 75% two large suits. We're going to talk cars and trucks and all things auto industry.

So again, thank you all. And thank you to Jeff for letting us run this shindig and

shitshow, whichever you'd prefer to call it. So yeah, first things first, I just want to

get this stuff out of the way. And by get it out of the way, I mean, I want to talk about

it because I have fallen again, head over heels in love with my Lexus GX. And I wrote about this

on universe. And, and there has been, I mean, but can you see that down? That's, that's a nice.

Are those hellas or what are the lights? No, so, okay. So the lights are a light force. That's,

that's a long time ago edition. I've been working on actually, as of a couple days ago,

this has been a four year project, which for me is basically unheard of. You know, I was the,

I was the resident like turn the car over every few months guy in universe. But I have,

I've had this GX for, for four years now. And I, I goddamn, I love this truck.

So the most recent updates to it have been

number one, the suspension, which I will attempt feebly to share a picture of

Elka, which is a Canadian company and is primarily in like the ATV, UTV industry,

again, which is also where I first heard of them. They're, they're dabbling more in the,

the full size world. So they sent me over a set of suspension to test and it's remote reservoir,

which like as a kid growing up, looking at four by four and off road mags, having remote reservoirs

on your own vehicle is like, it's, this is, you know, you're seeing God. So that's, that's ELKA,

right? Like that's ELKA. Yeah. Yeah. It's straight from Canada. And you know,

we were trying to work out the shipping right in the middle of all the import,

export terror, which was its own can of worms. So they spent, well, what did they send you?

They sent you, they sent you suspension arms and yeah, no. So they, they said,

and I, I should have a better picture of this live and ready to go. But they sent shocks and

struts and like it's a coil over set up in the front and for the rear, it's just shocks.

But they all have remote reservoirs and it's, you know, it's the kind of thing that you

pick up and holding your hand and you go, holy shit, this is like, these are people

that actually care and take the time to, you know, like look after the stuff they're

making. And I don't say that as somebody who's reviewing it because they sent it to me.

Because God knows there's been a fair share of stuff that that's been sent to me to review that

I've come to shit on. But like, it's like quality stuff. I worked in manufacturing for a while.

I know what quality is and isn't. And it, it rides great. And I, I'm so far very happy.

That's unfortunately, that's a lot of work to swap them off.

Yeah. I was sick and also I had back surgery a few years ago and, and decided that it was better

subbed out to a, to a shop. No shame. You know, like, man, I, you know, your limits.

I have two kids and I have three or four jobs, depending on what week it is. And, you know,

I was like, well, not there's somebody probably better to do this than me.

Support your local economy. That's totally fine.

Queens being the local economy from Connecticut.

Yeah. Yeah. Shout out to Brad in the custom shot. The homies hooked it up. But, but yeah,

the Alka stuff so far. I haven't had a chance to test it. I got sick and my kids were also

sick when I was supposed to have gone out to Pennsylvania to test it. So off road test

come, but it has been awesome on the street so far and a huge upgrade over what I was working with.

And the other, I have two more things to plug and just show because I'm so happy with it.

And because nobody thinks Alexis GX can be an off road rig. And I know I talked about this

before, but Toyo sent tires open country RT trail and a wheel pros sent over the heritage

pro comp heritage, which, you know, makes the Lexus look like a retro off roader. And I fucking love it.

Yeah. It looks, it looks sharp. I don't understand why people don't think it could be an off roader.

I mean, it's a forerunner like because there's an L on it. So it's a forerunner. It's a Land Rover.

It's a Prada. That like it like it's what does it have to you see or when you see I can't remember.

It's a four sex. It's a four sex. Yes. So that's the two because the one is the force seven.

Yeah. All right. That makes sense. It just felt like a brick shithouse. Like there's

yeah, dude, I like I will have to try to kill it. It'll literally outlive me because I drive two

miles a day between going to daycare mile and back. Okay. And second shout out just

because I'm trying to cruise through this Hamilton Motor Company. And can you still see my screen

just because I can see your your GX still. Okay. Excellent. Yeah. Hamilton Motor Company is a company

based in the Carolinas, a local ish company that is doing retrofit type kits for, I mean,

I know it mostly for Toyota products, but basically they make this setup that transforms

pre carplay Lexus GX is into what Lexus finally did in 2022 because 2022 was how long it took them

to put fucking carplay in a, you know, $60,000 truck. And it's like it's a full center console

replacement. So like, you know, from these knobs down to the Lexus logo on the CD player.

And it's, you know, install, you got to take the center console and most of the stuff out and

it's there. But it looks and feels inside now like a 2022 to 2024 GX. And that's awesome.

You know, it because I drive and I'm fortunate enough to drive so many new cars that have carplay

and have all this modern stuff. It just makes my own vehicle feel like it's it's current. And

you know, it's not it was built, it was built in 2017 and dates back to a vehicle that was

first launched in 2010. Like I why should you be denied the modern convenience, right?

Yeah, it's this is first world problems to the nth degree, but it makes it so pleasant to just use

carplay and Hamilton killed it. And they're like, again, not just being a shill for something that

was sent to me like actually having used their services and the products they,

you know, they send to review, like it's really, really good. There's so much stuff out there

that's not good. And this is really good and their customer services a plus. So so that's my

that's my GX update. And do you think they're going to make a kit for GM owners?

Hmm, given that GM is taking it away from everybody.

It's probably a little harder, probably eventually. And I've had a couple of those vehicles that didn't

have carplay. So long story short, for people listening, general motors against basically

every auto industry person's recommendation decided that they would be better off creating their own

interface and UI and not, you know, buying carplay for for all the cars they make.

Because that's what they do. They buy carplay. They're buying a service to introduce and

include in the actual production of the vehicles they sell.

And for a lot of people, it doesn't matter, you know, there's a lot of people out there that don't use

those. But then you tell me if I'm wrong here, every time a company has tried to

replicate that on their own terms, instead of just buying the tech from the company that

originated the tech, it has gone terribly. And they've ultimately ended up doing the opposite.

Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think the reason why is there's a lot of reasons why actually,

like why they make that decision. But the reason why it tends to fail is auto has this idea

that they're still like it's still 1955 and they're like the biggest industry

in the States. And they're just not anymore. So it's actually a real struggle for them to compete

for the talent that would otherwise be in Silicon Valley, designing things for phones or apps or

in the gaming industry. The gaming industry is a lot bigger and a lot more lucrative actually.

And has implications on the car industry because games

have influence on the screens and the, you know, all that.

You know, the Nvidia chips that you would use for?

They're the most valuable company in the world. That's a show game.

If you told me that when I was like, you know, 15, I would have shit my pants.

And you'd be like, what? Did you buy it?

Right, in my tower?

Okay. So I'm trying. I'm desperately trying to present something else and show a different

screen here. It's not cooperating. Riverside. Come on, man.

Like they're choose screen to share. There is no other screen to share.

Hey, maybe if I share something. Yeah, do it.

Because I could wax poetic on how much I hate the

infotainment set up on modern, non-carplay, non-android auto vehicles.

Okay. I just have to let Google Chrome see my screen.

Provide, uh, gotta give it the fingerprint. Yep.

You've got to say, hey, yeah, man. Well, you can have it.

This has been the kind of day where my is the first time I've bought a coffee from Starbucks.

Uh, I bought one last weekend. It spilled all over me.

So in, in months and hot coffee has turned into a cold coffee.

Uh, that's, that's unfortunate.

It dilutes what is already a diluted coffee.

Yeah, I will share. Okay. So there we are. There's the dashboard.

Can you see the dashboard? Nope. I still see my truck.

Christ sake. Riverside, you're fucking up.

Calling y'all out. Weird. Okay.

So I just stopped sharing and still back to you. What?

So if I click stop presenting, nothing happened.

If I click present something else, nothing happens. Wow.

You want to keep going or you want to stop? Oh, there we go.

All right. So the next thing we share better be important.

Yeah. So anyway, like I'm looking at these products too.

Like, uh, did they send you the remote reservoir shocks,

like the adjustable compression rebound and all that stuff?

Well, yeah. Fancy setup.

It's, it's fancier than any suspension setup I've had on any vehicle I've ever grown.

It does look like good stuff. I was like poking around their website.

They're Elk is awesome. They've always been awesome.

I, I meant to buy suspension from them for my ATV.

I had a Kawasaki Brute Force 650 for 14 years.

And every time I went to buy suspension from them, I was like,

but I only ride so often. And then it was like,

but this suspension is going to be as worth,

worth as much as the quad. And I just could never do it.

Yeah. And I love that they came full circle.

And now it's, you know, they're, they're doing curated stuff.

It's not just like, uh, you know, here's everything.

Everybody can get whatever they want for whatever car they want.

They're actually like looking at vehicles and doing stuff based on consumer need.

That's cool. That's pretty cool.

I wish they had WK2 Grand Cherokees, but they have Wranglers.

So most of this is just body on frame stuff.

So, and that's honestly, like that's the,

that's where you're supposed to be.

Yeah. That's where the off road world lives.

Sorry, dude.

No, that's okay.

Okay. So you wanted to talk about a few things that I have listed.

So, uh, so where do you want to go?

Because let's start about what has happened.

I think the last time we were together.

Yeah, man. It's been a country minute since you've been here.

Everybody was still kind of hot on EVs.

And we were watching the perpetual sort of decline of the price, you know,

the everything was getting to her, even the Model 3.

Every brand was like pulling steps out of the pricing structure just to help the buyer.

And not for nothing, the tax rebate was a big part of that.

The 7,500 bucks that you would get if it was such and such.

But yeah, it was always interesting to see how they'd like quote the number

where they'd be like, well, you can get a lucid and you can drive it for like $30,000.

We'd be like, really?

And it depends on where you are, right?

And it was the federal tax credit and then whatever your state was doing

and whatever other kind of thing.

Yep. It may be overestimating, but still.

The federal tax credit has since gone away.

And so we've seen the prices revert to something that is more reflective of

what the cars actually cost.

They're still getting more affordable.

And during that time, I was at an EV manufacturer.

So it was interesting to see that.

Starts with an S and rhymes with slight.

Right. Yeah, exactly.

It sounds just it was really interesting to see the cost of the battery

and then the cost of the rest of the vehicle.

Can you give a percentage proportion?

It's a lot.

That's it's a lot percentage.

Is it over 50?

Over 50 what?

Oh, it's percent.

I really shouldn't say.

Spill the beans.

I can't.

Give me like a nod or like a shake of the ice.

Exactly.

It's batteries are still expensive and they're still like and the sleep battery is modest

too.

Right.

Like it's small.

About the base car.

Yeah.

Well, even the the larger battery is still modest.

And you know, part of that is weight management.

It's not that heavy compared to other EVs and, you know, small battery means.

Yeah, you need less battery and less motor of the vehicle.

It's always less.

Right.

But since this is cycle, you know, we've we've seen the tax credit go away and then just

lots and lots of other renewable energy and alternative energy solutions.

Alternative is funny to me because it's like they're not really alternative unless you

think that oil is the only end.

Well, Toyota went big on SEMA with like the hydrogen powered stuff, which is kind

of Toyota's like, yeah, left field, absolute, you know, last chance ever.

Which is interesting because like.

Ignore.

Hydrogen is oil.

It's natural gas.

If for the intents of this conversation, you can ignore that.

That's yeah.

Yes.

So we've shifted though.

Like EVs, like it seems like the narrative lately has been, oh, you know, speaking

of Toyota, like they're a slow mover.

They always generally are when it comes to picking up tech, which is part of their

their ability to do things really well.

Yeah.

Is there never really the leader?

They're not at the vanguard of nothing.

Wait and do it better.

Right.

They like wait and they're like, let's let this guy make all the mistakes.

So Mr. General over at the motors and then we'll see what happens.

General motors.

Yeah.

No.

And they came out and said that this week, you know, they basically have like

electric, full electric isn't where it's going, you know, right?

And they have companies are better poised to have hybrids and and PHEVs.

And it's actually it's interesting, right?

Like the technology that they were really a leader on, they were really out in front of

is hype like hybrid synergy drive.

They worked on it in the 90s and the first Prius came out before the turn of the 21st century.

And it's very good.

No, it's very refined.

It's, uh, yeah, continue.

I drive a four by which every time I have a gas station that I hear a four by pull up to

get gas.

I know it's a four by I just know it's good.

They did their audio branding did good.

It's more the electric drive frame confusing relationship with everything else.

But we can talk about that.

And I will say like, yeah, I love the WL, but it is a clumsy hybrid.

And I really just like the sound of the GME engine.

And for something that is so expensive, it does kind of piss me off.

Yeah, to that stupid agent in our, in our chat for a universe.

When the, I guess, would you call the WL to that Jeep debut?

Was that last week with the revised fascia new motor?

You got it has to be called WL to be interesting.

Nobody called it WK to until it was after the fact, you know.

Yeah, well, WK two was like, that was a significant upgrade.

It got the independent rear end.

It got the Pentastar, but that was the 2011 like big update.

WK goes back to 2005, something like that.

So the, oh no, it was a couple of years later that the SRT got the eight speed

instead of the five speed.

But yeah, eight speed.

We digress in 2014.

Right.

Which is the year of my parents' grand turkey, which has 300 and some odd thousand miles.

And they're, that's pretty great.

Right.

They're trying.

It's on second motor.

Yeah, what did the, the, the, the lifter twist that it always does.

The Hemi, the, yeah, the five seven.

I think that a lot of the problems they had was from cylinder deactivation.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

The hardware is like, that's the same thing that GM

had, but their, the Elvis had, still having.

Yeah.

And then you got to take all the push rods out and.

Right.

So rice, you don't oil some of the engine.

And guess what?

Yeah.

It's still moving and it's, it still needs oil.

And it's, how do we get here?

Anyway, we were talking about hybrids.

So yeah, hybrids and hybrids.

And so now everybody's like, oh hybrids are great.

And they are great.

And I think they're a great transition.

And I think a plug-in is actually, it is the sweet spot.

It's funny to see.

And we've talked about this.

I've said this for a long time is like, just the way Americans lives are set up.

A lot of us are in suburban situations or like further out in sprawl.

So you've got to drive to stuff.

We live in New England.

It's a compact region.

It's, it's different.

Yeah.

So like what works for us?

Like I could drive an EV right now, even with 100 mile range.

I could drive a first generation LEAF.

Not a problem.

Same.

It would be a problem if we were in somewhere different.

It's, yeah, one does not cover all is basically is what it is.

So while people talk about the plug-ins as like, well,

you've got two powertrains and it's just kind of an inelegant solution.

I'm like, yeah, it is.

And it isn't though.

Like, yes, to a degree, you do.

But if it was just a hybrid, it would still have all that stuff.

It would still be very fuel efficient.

And really all you need to do is make the battery larger.

And in now, modern batteries are much physically smaller than they were 15, 20 years ago.

So you could pack a lot more capacity,

more kilowatt hours into a tinier battery.

So there are kind of a win-win.

Yeah, there are big critics of every single powertrain configuration you can come up with.

And I mean, we can do it on a fly, you know, like a plug-in.

It makes it less efficient when you're not actually using the battery that is designed

to be plugged in a regular hybrid.

Okay.

Well, it's a generator with a motor, blah, blah, blah.

Why don't you just have one or the other, you know,

and then obviously the opposite ends at the spectrum, the electric or the gas.

I will say we have a plug-in hybrid.

We have the CX-90PHEV.

That's a really nice car.

Yeah.

And, you know, the weird thing is that there have been so many reported problems

with it in terms of the plug-in hybrid powertrain.

People having issues with the battery or the motor or some of the electrical systems.

And knock on, my desk is fake wood, so it doesn't really count.

Knock on all the wood.

Like, ours has been great, you know.

It's only been nine months, but...

And that's like, it's interesting.

It's the same thing with like the UI, the digital UI inside the cars, right?

Everybody's now coming up with their own hybrid powertrain.

A lot of them in the past, they had licensed Toyota.

It's like the old, it's like early Altima hybrid.

Well, I mean, that reigns consistent because if you look at the current CX-50 hybrid,

it's a RAV4 hybrid powertrain with a Mazda shrink wrap, you know?

Yeah.

And that's not, like, that's not a bad thing.

What did they get?

They got Toyota got the color.

They got that bad-ass red that the Mazda...

They did, yeah.

I think it's a fair trade.

Give and take.

Yeah, yeah, seriously.

And on the topic of hybrids, before we close this, and I know we were trying to do a hard

half hour, and here we are probably going long past that.

All right, we'll keep moving.

Prelude reviews.

The embargo was released as we were recording this show.

Okay, how fast does it go to 60, because everybody was worried?

I didn't look.

I don't care.

Do you care?

No, I don't give a shit.

That's what I was going to say is some knucklehead, like one-off person somewhere

collected to 60 and they did like nine seconds and everybody got their mind.

I was like, I mean, yeah, okay, fine.

Do you need it faster than nine?

Because most of the time people come to the end of an on-ramp and they stop.

So, nine's really slow.

Nine is like for now, like for modern cars, yes.

That's really slow.

That's not that bad.

If you look at, so here's the problem.

The buying public is going to say, I want a two-door car, I want a coupe,

I want it to be sexy and sporty, and then they go and look at the specs and the stats,

and it's nine seconds to 60, and they look at, and it's going to be like,

I think everything was projecting like 40 to 42.5 for the MSRP.

And they're like, okay, but I can have a Mustang EcoBoost for the same money,

and it does a six, you know, a six-one or a five-eight, zero to 60.

Yeah, that's always been the dichotomy, too.

Like Prelude, maybe not quite as much, but when you had the Accord Coupe V6,

you could get it with a manual and it was as fast.

So, at one point, my best friend had a 2003 Accord V6 coupe with a stick,

and I maintain to this day that that is the single,

that is the best car ever made.

That was a great car.

It got, it would probably pull 40 miles per gallon on the highway.

It was quiet, it was comfortable, it was like, it was perfect.

It was fantastic.

Except for rust.

Other than that, well, he only had it for about a year, so.

So, what did he crash it into?

No, he sold it because he moved to Manhattan.

Oh, that was also smart.

So, I think actually the Prelude is going to be faster.

Just exciting.

It's probably, it's based on the Civic, right?

So, yeah, it's going to be like in the 7s, which is fine.

It's not super fast, but like honestly,

how much do you need when most of the time,

it does, I will say it doesn't bother me even as an enthusiast.

I'm more of a like, momentum car kind of car.

How do you feel about it having a CVT?

I would have to drive it to see how I really think about it.

I would say.

Sports shift plus.

Yeah.

CVTs together with the electric motors are generally better.

Because they, when it's just the CVT

and an internal combustion engine, especially a small one,

that's when it starts to feel like the rubber band thing.

And some are pretty good now, even at that.

Yeah, yeah.

A few CVTs I had as press cars, which is now a long time ago.

They were fine, like especially around town.

Yeah.

This is smooth.

It's got torque multiplication, like.

Even the supers are like, the transmissions are fine.

They're, you know, warning them past 100,000 miles.

Yeah.

Anybody's guess.

They're really, really unsatisfying

if you want to drive in a spirited enthusiast manner.

But for most people, they're perfect.

Yeah.

But the journalist problem is that most people don't buy cars

with the intent for a use case ever

like what a journalist puts a car through for a week.

Yeah.

And the only reason why journalists do that

is because they're not paying for those cars.

Because we're, yeah, because we're journalists.

See, when you drive your own car, you're very much more mellow.

Usually.

I mean, you go off-road and stuff.

So maybe you're.

Yeah, I'd be the shit on my truck.

But like, maybe not the best belt weather.

There's also people that track their cars, you know?

Yeah.

And that's the bell curve.

Those are the outside parts of the bell curve.

I definitely probably would not enjoy trying to track a privilege.

Well, that's how they did the launch.

So they must have, you know, some kind of thought about something.

If Honda's listening, Chris, I know you're listening.

I hope.

I'll send you some.

I'll call out.

Straight up.

Call out.

Send, you know, let's talk.

I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Palmer Motorsports Park.

It's like half hour, maybe a little more.

And then there's a place up in New Hampshire,

Club Motorsports.

They're a little further, but I mean, there's tracks.

So we can prove this.

That's all I'm saying.

Show us what's up.

Yeah.

Let's move on.

Yeah. One more thing, I think, before we go and wrap,

because we do have other shows planned with big,

all exciting things covered.

What is that?

Yeah, let's see.

Let's, I mean, do you already plan to get this out?

Yeah, let's say.

Yeah, okay.

We have a big, a big guest in a YouTube channel

that is doing an enormous comparison test.

And by enormous, I mean,

like the heaviest hitters of the year,

as far as sports and performance cars go.

And how do we actually want to tease this?

I mean, their channel starts with an S

and rhymes with savage keys.

Is that a teaser?

Or is that just like a deliberate one?

I mean, it's kind of like, hey,

they're going to be on the show.

They were actually supposed to be on this week.

They were supposed to be recording with us right now,

but they are editing a comparison test,

which they posted on Instagram.

So I'm not blowing up their spot,

but they had the GT3 RS, the Mustang GTD,

and the Corvette ZR1 in a comparison.

So they are coming on to discuss that

and tell us how poor we are.

This is important.

The GTD dropped, like, when I was at Ford,

they released...

Is that long ago?

Holy shit.

Well, it was 24, early 24.

Yeah, it was 24, early 24.

That car, like, it was just like, it blew my mind.

Like, this is great.

This is fantastic.

Like, it doesn't, I get what they're doing,

but it's still, it's like, okay,

so we pull a body in white out of a fire rock

and it's ended up to multi-matic.

All right.

But like, the engineering

and the way they all worked together,

it's a halo Mustang.

And it's a halo of Ford.

Yeah.

The amount of engineering that went into that car.

And just, I love the push-rod rear suspension

and everything like that.

Yes, the window into the suspension

from the rear seating corridor is pretty awesome.

Like, do you think it's...

So I have a theory.

I think the GTD is a stopgap between the third gen,

or I guess it was, how do you classify it?

The 2017 to 2022-ish era,

Ford GT with the, you know,

twin-turbo V6, the lineage before that being

God, the Ford GT, you know, the 2003 to 2006 car.

Oh, was it?

Yeah, okay.

I thought it came out in all five.

With the Supercharged 5.4, I believe?

Yeah, I think so.

I think you're right.

My friend, the modular engine,

where they were like,

we're going to just put every single size of bolt

and screw on this thing,

because you bought the whole two-box.

You're going to use it.

Yeah, yeah.

So my theory is there's another one coming

in like 28-ish, and this was the stopgap because

they haven't developed another,

you know, another platform for a halo car like that.

So they were doing a halo Mustang in the interim.

You know, I don't know.

I'd be interested to see what that strategy is like that.

It's a little bit walled off from the rest of the company.

That was Ford Performance, and now it's Ford Racing.

They kind of developed that stuff sort of on their own.

And really what I understood with the GTD and, you know,

the dark horse and that stuff was we're going to go racing a lot more,

because it coincided with their,

they really turned up the heat on racing everywhere.

They basically want it to be like any weekend,

anywhere there's Ford Racing, and the Mustang is definitely

the platform that's just the widest appeal.

So that makes sense.

They're also like they're in F1.

They've rejoined F1.

I don't know that they're really doing anything

other than brand partnership, really.

Supplying the engine.

Over 26, yeah.

So that's again, that's not developing a platform

like you're talking about.

So we'll see.

And I don't think an F1 platform really translates

to street cars anyway.

No, it translates in you potentially have engineers

that you can hand back and forth.

Yeah, I think they do.

I'm sure they do.

Racing is amazing for training engineers who then go on

to do really great things at the everyday side of the company,

because it's just that pressure like you've got to

be on the track.

You've got to solve it, fix it.

You know, we don't have time.

We don't have money.

Like what do we got?

It makes you really creative.

And just that sort of cross-functional team leadership thing.

So those guys, the racing programs,

like they come out, they're very sharp.

Meanwhile, you have all the underserved folk

and bowling ring that build all the engines and what not

for the Corvettes that never get any seat done unless they buy one.

I mean, it's soul-sucking.

So as an example though, there's a lot of X Viper team people,

like original Viper and then SRT.

A lot of people from that team, or at least a sizable number,

are at sleep.

So I think that's just the grassroots mentality of like,

we're going to do something and nobody else is going to do and

you know.

It was just interesting throughline to pick on was like,

oh, hey, that's really neat.

The CEO of the company, one of her first teams was the SRT team,

the Viper team.

And I can't remember whether it was her first job

or whether it was college.

Like SRT was diverted from being part of

it was it was the 90s, like early 90s.

It was a original Viper.

Okay.

Not like 2013 or whatever when they were like,

guess what, SRT is going to be its own brand.

No, no.

I mean, she was a Chrysler then too.

And so that early 90s, mid 90s Chrysler though,

like they had lots who led the Viper team.

Yeah, yeah.

Say what you will about him.

All I want to say is they had an 80 million dollar budget

and they produced a car.

For an 80 million dollar.

Right.

And the budget for the Lexus LS 400 was a billion dollars

a couple of years before, which I know 80 million

sounds like a lot of money.

Engine line is a couple 300 million.

Yeah.

So like that crappy v6 that they put in minivans,

that was that project was multiple times more

than the entire Viper program.

So keep that in perspective.

And then like the the manufacturing guy,

the lead factory guy at Chrysler at that time,

he'd actually come from AMC because of the Renault connection

in Francois Casting.

And he he really learned how to be effective

and sharp and fast through the Renault F1 program

in the 70s state.

So sorry to rail us on that.

But no, you're good.

You're good.

I would not be surprised if Ford had something else

on their like on their mind.

You can because there's room for it.

There's room for Mustang based stuff and some else.

And if you look at the pricing strategy,

I mean, yes, a factor for inflation,

but the 2000s Mustang GT was like 150.

And the recent one was in the twos.

And now, yes, the Mustang GT was 350, right?

Something.

But inflation has been a lot less kind since the last GT.

So I think if they were like, guess what?

We have a $500,000 halo car.

It's got the GT 500 engine because that's what they're,

you know, pushing now not so much as it's crazy,

but almost 10 years ago that it was all EcoBoos.

Yeah.

Hey, there they are.

Okay, last topic before we close because we're well over time.

But it's been good.

It's been fun.

It has been fun.

It's been nice to have you back.

It's a long overdue.

It's good to be back, although again,

I apologize for being so slow to get everything else out.

It makes you good, man.

Hey, we're all doing this for fun.

You know, it is fun.

This isn't our day job.

No, Jeff.

Poor Jeff.

Yeah, we'll have a month soon.

We can talk about the

trajectory of the life of a SoCal auto journalist.

You wanted to talk about the

alleged manual transmission conversion kit for the C8 Corvette.

I mean, just a little bit and it showed up at SEMA.

And SEMA's got some cool stuff like, hey, Scion's back.

Oh, shit, that was funny.

Scion's not back.

There's a concept UTV branded under the Scion name.

But I mean, so that's a couple of things, right?

Like that's a trademark protection.

So now they've released something with the name.

There's no stakes to it.

They don't have to do anything else for another X amount of years, right?

They can point and say, like, we still own the Scion brand.

Yeah.

I don't know.

I'm all for it.

It's weird how big business does that.

Like you think it's just like random fun stuff and you're like,

no, that was a strategic, like, businessy move.

But it's still a better headline to say Scion is back.

Oh, yeah, God.

Scion is back.

Sprites has nothing to do with any Scion before it.

But we have to do it because

if we don't, we'll lose the trademark.

Or at least it's an easy way to protect it.

And you get headlines like it was brilliant

from a PR and marketing perspective on media.

Good job, guys.

Yeah, well done.

And the so the manual thing, I thought that was really interesting

because I really like manual transmissions in sports cars.

I know they're not the fastest,

but I'm not there for the numbers.

Like I really I don't like Excel.

So I don't want spreadsheet.

I want the experience.

And it's the flappy paddle thing.

It's OK.

But there's just something from that you get from the coordination.

It's like playing an instrument when you're, you know,

driving a manual transmission sports car,

you clip apexes and things you heel toe, et cetera, et cetera.

Like it's it's a skill and it's fun to practice a skill.

Maybe it's kind of like the third ADHD brain, right?

Yeah.

It's like it gets all your limbs going.

I mean, not no.

But it's cool that Tremac developed a manual transaxle

that drops in the same physical package space

as the dual clutch that's in the seat.

Yeah.

So you have to remember it's when you're sitting in the car

it's behind you at the actual back end before the axle splits

and goes both tires at the back,

which isn't what the common transmission setup is for really anything.

Except for the GTD.

Yeah.

So they show the yeah.

OK.

And actually I can't remember whether that's also a Tremac

transaxle.

I can't remember off the top of my head.

It might be.

I think I'm searching with my with my screen sharing.

So you are it is an eight speed DCT and it is built by Tremac.

Yeah.

It might be the exact same gearbox.

So for the C8 and the GTD you mean?

Yeah.

Maybe the internals are different but the same basic design.

Which I think like the thing I didn't like about the C8 when it dropped was

that they're it's automatic only.

I understand there's a lot of reasons for it and I'm sure it's actually

still very fun to drive.

It is really hated that center console with the bridge thing.

It's it's it's it's a thing.

I was like God they got they got rid of it.

It is unusable.

And I had I've had two C8 press loans.

And the first one I was like I'm going to do everything I can to get used to the

you know the fighter they call it like a fighter jet center control thing.

I was like I'm just going to I'm going to do my best couldn't get used to it over a week.

The rest of the drive better than it looks because in my opinion

it looks terrible but yeah it uh

the way they designed that divider between driver and passenger to have all of the controls

that you need when you're looking if you're doing 70 miles per hour on the highway and

you're looking forward and you want to turn and you'd see guess what you have to look like

down towards where a cup holder would usually be.

Oh so you've got to be like which.

Yeah no just one of those things that they probably looked at and they're like this is really cool

it looks really cool and then they drove it and nobody had the you know gusto to say we should

not do this.

Yeah it's crazy how they it always feels like they come up with the stuff and they don't

actually like try it or or like especially with with Corbettes too like they don't

put on their jean shorts and their white new balance and and like the old suit and get in the car

and travel. Yeah yeah but ergonomic design aside like so this this transactional is designed to

be shifted by cables so it's it's two cables that move the shift forks so it doesn't preclude

installation in the Corvette it doesn't mean that it's right for it like if you were to

take this and you were going to make a racing only Corvette off-road or something you could

absolutely use it you'd have to strip the interior and it would be you know on the

cage or something you could definitely mount the shifter for most shifter but.

So the big question that I have as somebody who works in marketing is is there a market

for this and do people actually want this?

Well this is my question yes so it's like why did they go through the trouble of engineering

it's because Tremac engineered it. Take all of this for the internet's reliability and what it's worth

but apparently the Chevy lead engineer said that the manual take rate on the C7 Corvette was

you know what I guess uh it was like 15 percent right 15 percent I saw the quote no you saw

yeah sorry 15 percent and he said every year it went down yeah which means

you're selling cars and your you know your goal is to they sell per year 40 000 let's see I think

that would be high but so 15 percent of say 40 000 or 30 something like that's not that many cars

in 2020

and that would be the CHC it came out in 2019 right wow yeah 2019 nope that's Canada just

regard that they sold Canada they like the peak that I see is they sold 34 000 in 2023 okay so 15

percent I could not do the math off the top of my head but that's but like well no that was C8 so so

2019 they sold 18 000 that's Corvettes which that's not that many 15 percent of that is

his 200 right and then yeah half of that not good not good not the kind of thing that would

if you're in the position of justifying the sales of a car with the stick shift option

that would make you can you know actually do that also don't forget when the C6

six Jesus I'm dating myself when the C8 I had a C6 when the C8 came out the Corvette

was also alongside the Camaro which was very easily available with manual in both oh I see

what you did in both eight cylinder and six cylinder configuration and eventually I think

there was a four cylinder uh maybe uh was there not I don't know I'm I don't know I'd say it's

dude whatever no maybe that was just the uh yeah I know you're right it was you know the one Ali

what the yeah okay all off in the weeds

it said let me okay yeah I think I think we're like really like

pulling at things here so maybe it's time we well what are you thinking though you're

thinking that they're gonna make a cheap one with a manual or like something based on C8 parts

I think that would be weird but

I would love to see Chevy do something to compete with the

performance of the Mustang and the price of the GR86 oh and the Miata

that would be pretty great

but if you put your business person shoes on

that's not where the money is no it makes me wonder uh if they're

part of the issue is for GM to sell the car with manual

if you're going to sell 2,000 cars in a good year you still have to go through the millions of

dollars of expense for all of the fuel economy certification all of the emissions all of that

stuff in tooling and purchasing and shipping to get something else from a different vendor

to bring in to something that you also have to go through all of the actual steps to selling a car

to sell yeah and instead what you can do is almost like they did back when there was like

the ban on racing after the the terrible but you know in the 50s there was a terrible crash and

they all the big three were like we're gonna back off of racing for yeah and they came back

into it um but they they had sort of like quietly supported privateer teams and uh I wonder if this

is one of those things for for the motorsports guys who will will pay for the part it's not

going to be a cheap trans axle but if they works together with with Tremac to develop

a cable shifted version of this same physical package well then they can offer it through

uh what is it GM performance or whatever like yeah GM performance parts but I will counter that with saying

you have to delineate the stick shift in the automatic because if you're going for a drag time

auto's faster oh yeah going for a lap time nine times out of ten auto's faster yeah if you're

going for checking the box that says manual transmission this then you have to you know

go through that due diligence so it's a mystery it's because you make like that like the use case is

if you're actually serious about racing you're going to pick the transmission that's

going to win the race right and there's somebody out there that will say they have the fastest

stick shift kind of like black wing in the world and then there's also somebody that will say they

have the fastest black wing in the world yeah in a car that doesn't already come with the manual

transmission option I think yes if you have the money for it fucking go for it that's great

you know if you're a Chevy guy who has the money to put a stick shift gearbox in the

in a c8 then that's your dream but it's the hardest part is going to be mounting the shifter

like you're gonna have to destroy it well some way you should you fuck yeah please please destroy

the interior uh good it'll be interesting to see what happens like dude's engine swaps maybe it's like

c8 like take take the the because the c8 engine is pretty unique so it's dry something all that

yeah uh so maybe it's making it available to to swap um with a stick and then you take the whole

you know you need holly yeah and put an a holly fi on there and you know like a

a mo-tech and and put it into the standalone race car yeah awesome I know it's it's left field um

I'll be totally transparent both c8s that I've spent a week with like I consider myself a

like a good driver as far as like like actual driving goes not a great driver as far as like

performance driving goes um at the limit a c8 is more than I can do you know and it's is it's

spooky no it's not spooky it's just if you need to spend all of your attention focused on looking

where you're going steering and braking then adding the equation of a shifter and a pedal

into it is I think for most people probably more than they can do to milk the most out of a car

yeah well I mean that's why we see them hit things yes

yeah is it because the limits are so high like yeah no I mean it's it's it's because

again I consider myself like an average slightly above average driver and to navigate all of those

things all at the same time something's got to give you know yeah and um and that's the democratization

of fast you know yeah that and EVs it's it's it's performance cars like the c8 with an automatic

that you can get in with no experience before that and plant your foot and suddenly you're

fast as somebody that has also spent hundreds of thousands of hours on the track yeah all for

like 70 65 yeah like it's an amazing deal yeah yeah and and so like that's this is where I get back

to like the fact like yeah nine second trailer doesn't bother me like nine second trailer dude

we're living in the world we're like I mean we're like you know a week or 10 days post

9 11 turbo s embargo and they're running 10.03s

for the quarter it's the quarter yeah not the 60 that's like that you feel like glued to the ground

if you watched that happen like you'd be accelerating a 60 and that Porsche would just

it like it would you'd be like watching a bullet what's the fastest 0 to 60 that you have

experienced personally um

I want to say either the viper or the c6 it was probably the c6 because I was I was respectful

they're both very fast um the six is like that that was like a four second 4.2 something like that

it was like 84 to 60 uh super easy like because it'll do it in like first year yeah so you're

just they just dump the clutch and it goes well the viper don't be they set up the viper's first

year so you go to say stay without shifting yeah and the viper I that car has a reputation

and I found it actually very benign or like docile really which I was careful viper so much I

do like I the viper is like and my son wants one too and just like that car is like because it

will kill you uh which is like that's where the fun you remember the the fun ways to die videos

yes from I think was that an amtrak thing or was that it was some drain and whatever but

no it was dumb ways to die not dumb ways my daughter used to sing the the theme song in

my first grade yes this is your comment that's the dodge viper um you know

quiet actual mantra but yeah I mean four seconds to 60 is fast four is fast like and I know that like

a lot of cars do that now that was that was 993 turbo territory back and yeah like that's

that's very and I'm looking at my list of press cars and I'm like okay so uh defender octa sub four

second 60 that's great 2025 that's driving it like that's like a garden shit dude okay but okay but

I'm just looking at stuff I've driven this year you know uh m5 touring sub four to 60 uh let's see

Range Rover Sport SV edition sub four to 60 m2 big mw m2 sub four to 60 okay so the m2 is the one

that like doesn't surprise me everything else or the m5 touring too but like everything else

okay yeah blackwing

you

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