V12 Regrets, 911 Turbo Value Hunt & Listener Roast – Full Throttle Talk #39

Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where horsepower meets conversation from supercars

to classic legends, high revving tech to motorsport mayhem.

We covered all straight from the driver's seat, whether you're a gearhead or racer

or just love the thrill of the open road, you're in the right place.

Buckle up, hit the gas and let's go full throttle into today's episode.

So this is in my office, we have a full throttle talk candle.

Well, this is sort of a prototype.

We're going with this as a prototype because this is there.

You can see that there's flame in there.

If you hopefully you can see that there's actual flame.

What is this, is that new car smell?

Well, it's really I'm hoping that it's going to be like, you know, oil and grease or something

along those lines that would be fantastic in your home.

However, it really is just lit because my office happens to be right outside our bathroom here.

So I have to, you know, have to be careful of those kinds of things.

Don't you own the company?

Can you put your office somewhere else like a structural thing?

Casey, it's a structural thing.

No, hold on.

I've been to your office and across from your office down the hall away from the bathroom.

Is a really nice reception area.

Yeah.

I remember I have to be in here for this.

And then, of course, we did get, I do now have, well, let's see.

See if I can get that to show our new full throttle talk t-shirts that arrive.

So, well, those are the ones that have the the logos on the back.

You know, I'll pull that out.

We'll fill that in some other time.

All right.

Well, so in case you haven't figured it out yet, this is full throttle talk,

your favorite weekly automotive podcasts.

I'm here, of course, with Dave.

I'm here with Paul and I'm here with Casey.

And we have got, well, probably will be one of our best podcasts ever,

setting the bar super high, guys.

So don't drop the ball on this one.

We've had a lot of really wonderful listener feedback, a lot of comments,

a lot of things we're going to share with you.

Hopefully we get to all of it on the show today.

So without any further delay, guys, what did you do in cars this week?

Casey, you want to start?

Yeah.

I hate to tell you guys this, but I've not been doing, like,

super fun stuff.

I mean, I see the stuff that Paul and Dave have been doing.

And for me, it's just, it's just kind of work stuff, which for everybody else

will probably be like, wow, that's amazing.

But so if you look behind me, one of my favorite cars is this really cool

1970, who knows, 73, 914.

I talked to Klein into buying this a couple of years ago.

And it's a really rag car.

It has steel flares, a lot of the stuff inside of it was done

like a factory 914 6 GT, including chassis stiffening.

But the coolest part about it is it's got a 2.7 liter

redone to 2.8 liters with PMO carburetors and a hot cam.

And it makes I think a hundred and I think I saw the dyno.

I think it was like a hundred ninety five hundred ninety eight to the ground,

which in a car that weighs, you know, two thousand twenty one hundred pounds

is about as good as it gets.

And it always brings me back to the idea of,

you know, you can do all kinds of cool stuff with nine elevens,

as far as restomads and back dating and pulling stuff out of the,

you know, out of the ether to make the car interesting.

But to me, I really love hot rod old 914s.

I think it's I think it's a great experience to me.

The history of the bulge fenders, you know,

and that Nurburgring race or the cars that ran and, you know,

the Monte Carlo rally and those sorts of things.

I find a lot of enjoyment in that and I'm a big 914 guy, too.

So I just got a little bit of the weather in Maryland's been a bit cold,

but I went for a nice rip in it the other day.

It has zero heat.

It's got I left the roof on the windows up, but it was just a great sound,

great experience and super light flywheel revs really well.

Just a cool experience.

So that was that was my weekend cars.

That's awesome. I love it.

Good luck topping that, guys. Paul, Paul, you're next.

Well, this is the week of still driving my BMW 1600.

I drove it for five days last week, getting much better at driving a manual

and also went on probably the longer, a longer drive than I've normally done.

Went with a group of old 911 guys where that was the newest car,

which was a original paint aubergine car.

That's a 57 speedster, 56.

And and it was good to finally kind of get

out and and drive a little bit of twisty stuff if Tim, you're familiar with the area.

Just kind of went up San Diego Canyon, which is close by.

It was sort of a good baby step.

But what was really cool was went to

period correct on Sunday and SEMA was last week, which we'll get to in the next

segment, but what happened was a bunch of the SEMA cars started showing up at

period correct. I got really excited about this in case you'll probably recognize

it's that 935 Japanese livery and I was kind of tripping out over it.

Love the flying brick.

What did the wings say?

Passion over hype.

Do you guys like E-21s? Are you guys indeed?

I love them. I think they're cool.

I think they're I think the E-21s.

I never understood this when I talked to my BMW buddies.

I'm like, they love 2002s.

They love E-30s.

They take the parts from the E-21 and put it on the 2002, but they don't actually

like the E-21, but I think if you modify them, they look really, really bitchy.

Oh, there you go. There's your Alpina.

Yeah. Well, ours is Alpina.

It's like a it's a difference between being built by roof and then a customer

that took it to roof to have roof build their car.

That's a fake. So it's fake.

OK, you could say you could just say it like that, Paul.

No, I'm just kidding.

I'm just kidding. Tim with the backgrounds, though.

Tim has backgrounds. Oh, yeah.

I've been here. Oh, my gosh, he does.

So did somebody teach you to fish?

Yeah, seriously.

So.

But what was cool, like I said, was the SEMA cars were showing up.

And we'll talk later about this.

Busy motos, Honda Type R.

There was some 911 hot rods that were fresh out of SEMA.

So, yeah, it was, you know, it was a good day,

good weekend of cars and coffee, seeing new stuff.

And just really quickly, we're getting we're scrambling to get these two cars

ready, which I can't wait to.

And I actually got to finally, I did test drive that yellow GT3,

which it felt good to start test driving cars again.

Oh, did they still do that New Year's Day rally drive?

You know what I'm talking about?

It used to be like a crap ton of really cool cars.

I don't know.

The Jay Leno drive.

This they met near Crystal Cove.

Yeah, they call call it Tour de Orange.

It was. I think it was Tour de Orange.

But when we were there, they were meeting near the airport base where they used to

for a film US Top Gear.

Yes, they've moved to Crystal Cove.

I did it two years ago.

All right.

I did it two years ago in 67 soft window Targa and it has gotten smaller and a

tour. So that's why I took that car, because I knew it'd be kind of a chill.

There was all like Silver Ghost from the 20s and that kind of stuff, which was

fun to it was fun New Year's.

I mean, what we used to love doing is back in the early 90s, late 90s, early 2000s,

we used to go to Malibu, the real in, and that was the Jay Leno one.

And we would drive up Malibu Canyon and end up at this guy's house and he restored

Marmots. It was just it was a really cool thing.

But I get anything else.

And this is before social media.

It took about five years to blow out a control and then that was the end of that.

Yeah. How about you, David?

What'd you do in cars this week?

Yeah, it's been a busy, busy week, Tim.

As you can see behind me, the GT3 RS got a little run out on a damp, not rainy,

thank God, but a little damp morning here to hit the Stuttgart Saturday event that

they have at the one of the two Porsche dealers here in town.

That was great.

Some good cars that were there for part of that, including this Wild Viper,

which always interesting one to see one of those and a few other neat cars.

But I did to see a few stickers in the Wild as well, which is kind of cool.

These are local folks, but they have good taste in stickers.

So, you know, you have to give them their props.

I love, by the way, how you say a good taste in stickers since you did the stickers.

Not good taste in podcasts, but whatever. Moving on.

Well, see, it is good taste in podcasts, too.

And obviously I have spent or I should say my lovely wife,

Kerry, has spent countless hours stuffing envelopes.

Oh, we should mention.

Yeah, thanks for that.

Labels ready. So if you haven't gotten your sticker yet for signing up for the

newsletter, do not despair, it is on the way.

So the newsletter definitely sign up for that.

I still have a little bit of a supply of stickers here, so we'll keep sending those

out. And then on top of that, we had a great week here as well.

Kind of like Paul moved a few cars, amazingly found a buyer for this wonderful

slant nose, found a buyer for the the super little cool Hot Rod 912 that we had

as well as the 82 Targa.

So all those cars are on their way to new home soon.

And that was my week.

I did nothing in cars this week.

How about that? I just worked all week.

So I got nothing to share.

That's the reason I'm living vicariously through you guys every week.

As Casey's fond of saying, when you live in Puerto Rico, basically,

you drive around the island and they do that a couple of times and you're done.

No, I look at my pictures of the cars in a different in the mainland.

And that's about as close to it as I get.

And this was one of those weeks.

But hey, there they are.

There's a few of them anyway.

All right, so let's move on, guys.

Let's talk about automotive news.

And I'll start out by this one.

Can one of you guys pull that up for me?

I'm sorry I didn't didn't have the picture loaded.

Let's see.

So I thought this was really interesting and really telling.

Nismo was coming out with a new twin cam conversion motor that you.

Well, how about this?

That was my news story, Tim.

You should have just waited for me to get to it.

Well, we'll do it together.

How about this, Casey?

Why don't you go ahead and do it?

Because you're going to have more technical information than me.

So, yeah, they built a.

So Dave was talking last week about how much he loves to 40s.

And I saw this news article come out where Nissan is building this trick.

Basically, it's a 300 horsepower motor that you can shove in these cars that.

I think the the drives tagline was at cost as much as a as a Nissan Sentra.

But it's it's super rad.

It's really great to see manufacturers leaning into their history.

And you kind of knew this was coming because they do so much with the GTR

that they would probably then begin to start expanding this to some of their other ranges.

So 240, 260, 280.

And I just I think it's cool that they're doing it.

So kudos to Nissan.

It is amazing.

What's the pricing likely to be?

I mean, is it going to be a twenty thousand dollar motor or probably or more?

I think I need to drop right in.

Yeah, I think it's more than I mean, what car costs twenty grand anymore?

I don't think of any Nissan Sentra though.

So I mean, are they really cheap?

OK, I think a versa.

I think a Nissan versus probably in that range.

So so I mean, is this Nissan's version of the Crate LS type motor?

Is that kind of what they're doing?

Yeah, but I mean, it's something that's never existed before because they're doing it.

So pardon me for being dumb, but other than like old Alphas back in the day,

like what other dual overhead cam.

Car ran carburetors.

Quite Alphas.

That's true.

Lotus is.

OK, English, which is like Ford's for British.

You came for it.

Yeah, so that so that.

But it's interesting that they're doing this and it's also a six cylinder,

which is super rad.

So I'm stoked on it.

I think it's really cool.

Yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting to see where they show up.

I think they show up in like tuner cars, like high end tuner cars or or are they

going to be in, you know, just restomods, the home done restomods?

Because I mean, the problem with that, I think, is ultimately the guy who's

going to go build a 240Z hot rod, they probably are on a budget.

And I'm not sure you're right about that because there's no.

I think it's just like there's an untapped market of people like Dave

who have a lot of nostalgia for those cars who are going to, you know, when Rob

started singer, he was throwing spitballs as to whether or not anyone would buy

his car.

And I bet you the Nissan and certainly with the aid of the manufacturer,

they're going to come out with all kinds of, you know, cool singer ask 240Z.

I mean, right, Dave, what would you pay for one?

Like your dream 240, it was that motor, 300 horsepower, carbon,

fiber, body, everything done perfectly.

What would you, what do you think the market value?

Well, what would I pay or what would it cost to do?

I know there's a big difference.

You know, it's certainly going to cost you over $100,000 to build one.

I'm not sure I'm ready to jump into $100,000.

But 300,000.

Yeah, I'd say 300.

Yeah, well, it just depends on the car you're starting with and what you're

doing, obviously, but it could be done for that.

You know, I could do it here for that.

What's our words will build you a carbon fiber Z for 50 grand, 84 grand.

Eighty three ninety nine.

And you get a free set of knives with it.

Any car we'll paint it for you for sure.

Stickers.

And with every carbon fiber Z you buy, you get not one, but two full throttle candles.

Yes, there it is, the full throttle candle for sure.

That smell oddly like the bathroom near his office.

All right. No, they they smell like the crayons from a Mark four.

That's right. Paul, you're next.

So so kind of dovetailing on to the SEMA.

So SEMA just wound down and first of all, have any of you guys been to SEMA?

I've been three times many times.

OK, I've only been once.

It was right after we got our dealers license and about a year afterwards.

Two thousand six.

First thing we do is like, let's go to SEMA and that's when you realize it's not.

And that was before social media.

Just realize it's not about it's a it's definitely a B2B event.

And there's a lot of the irony is back then you could tell all the vendors were

hiring street workers to promote their stuff.

And what do you mean by street workers, Paul?

Lookers and I think that has gone out of favor.

Our detailer was there.

And I would say the biggest change from what I can see from social media and

talking to friends that went is if you've been before, Dave, like we were talking,

like you mentioned, brodozers and these super lifted trucks was like just

nauseatingly everywhere.

And I mean, that was 2005, six, all the way to probably five years ago.

But I would say this year, or at least the last couple of years,

the OEM manufacturers are getting into the game.

Kind of like Casey pointed out with Nissan, their retro fitting like this Toyota

Land Cruiser is a Toyota product from Toyota TRD, where they're basically

taking a modern Toyota and putting it in an old shell.

There there was even down to their Camry, they're making actually performance

street cars.

These are TRD type, not just body kits to time attack vehicles.

That was an EV time attack.

This one's the EV time attack.

Yeah.

So and then on just the street mods, instead of seeing brodozers,

you're seeing cool Mercedes where they're taking an old S class body from the

early 70s and just basically putting an entire modern.

I mean, I forgot what this one is.

I think it's an SL 65 underpinnings.

So, I mean, this is a little cartoon villain looking.

Yeah, the Joker is about to jump out of that thing.

Yeah, I mean, I feel like the headlights are going to be turrets for guns.

But down to this, I mean, here's the funny thing is I the first gut feeling

when I saw this car, Tim, was I thought of you and I thought,

if I'm going to zip around and do time trials on an island,

this could be the perfect time trial.

I had that same thought.

I know you did.

So this car, let me zip down to what it is.

Hold on a second.

And there was blazers and other other hot rods.

But let's see.

There's the thing.

It's called a Troy Indy special by 15 motorworks.

And it was an aluminum body car with a Chevy 6.2 LS V8 swap motor,

500 horsepower, nearly 500 pound feet of torque,

a Tremac Super Magnum six speed manual.

I mean, 2,200 with 500 horsepower and 500 pound feet of torque open wheel.

You know, push, rod, independent suspension, six piston front brakes.

The shop said they're going to be selling these for a quarter million dollars,

which actually

even down to real quick.

This shop was doing things.

They were taking an old thing and basically kind of mire

Manxing it with the whole Meyer Manx theme.

So so the general takeaway, I think, from SEMA was the OE manufacturers are

getting into the rest of my game, whether it be for something they're going to

actually sell or just promote to get people excited about the brand.

I would say Toyota is really leading into motorsports, which is weird.

Nissan's nowhere to be found, except for the one motor.

I'm shocked that they're going to even make that.

I would be surprised that that actually happens

since Nissan seems to be just dying on the vine.

Honda is so late in the game with everything.

I think they're finally going to try to actually make a good off-road vehicle

to compete with the Toyota forerunner.

Finally, you know, like what, 15 years late to the game.

So the only thing really from Honda and I didn't touch on, but this was to me,

the highlight and I talked to busy.

If you've ever met busy, people are listening, right?

OK, it is a Honda Odyssey, a late model Honda Odyssey with one of the best

type R Honda, sorry, civic type R integrations I've ever seen.

And there's a video of it on the on my

Instagram, kind of walking around it, but it looks so OEM.

And if you know Busy Moto, he's the sweetest guy.

He he is built at like a thousand horsepower drag

minivan before I saw it at auction, you know, like 10 years ago.

And it was kind of over the top.

So this was nice to see a lot of restraint.

But here's the best part.

It's a six speed manual.

It looks inside, looks totally stock.

The only thing you notice on the outside is the three giant like rocket launcher

for exhaust, which that would be the only thing.

Obviously, the stickers are for SEMA.

That would come off.

And I told and actually, I think

here's the thing is if this was a Toyota product, I could see Toyota maybe making

some like kind of like an AMG type partnership where you can get them through

the dealer, Honda will never do this because they don't have the balls to do it.

But it has a six speed manual.

That's not realistic.

But imagine one of these with a dual clutch, a really good dual clutch.

You know, that would be more realistic.

But it's 300 horsepower, right?

Yeah, 300 horsepower.

It probably weighs, you know, 4,000 pounds.

It's 320 horsepower, if I remember correctly.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.

So that's yeah, it's it's it's not going to be fast.

But the thing is, if you've heard that motor and the sound and with that manual

shifter, I think it takes a mundane daily activity and makes it a little bit fun.

What's the best application of a Honda Civic Type R motor other than in a

Honda Civic Type R?

What's the best place one of those motors ever ended up in any regular production

car that you guys can think of there?

That's probably a better fit for that car.

That's probably.

But what would the Indy car?

What comes to mind with my question?

You guys have any answers?

The best, I think an E30 M3 or an E30 E30 BMW case like a case swap.

Obviously, Tim, smiling like the cat away at the canary.

What do you got there, Tim?

What's Ariel Adam?

How can you guys not say Ariel Adam?

I saw one of those the other day on the road.

I didn't even know they were legal.

Yeah, I had one, of course, right?

I had one until I scared the crap out of myself and then I sold it.

Is that why you don't want one of these?

Oh, I need to the Indy car to drag his knuckles on the ground in that one

because the exhaust is right there and he wants to drag his knuckles out the side.

But if you guys ever have a chance to drive an Ariel, you should definitely drive

when it's, you know, it's too exhilarating for my old ass.

But there you go.

Yeah, cool.

Good.

Well, so would you, those of you, you know, Dave and Paul have been to Seaman and

Jules and I have been there three times.

Would you suggest people go just to have the experience?

I mean, I think so.

First of all, they are making it much more difficult to go unless you're in the

business. I mean, they're really.

That's the only case, though.

You have to know somebody.

Yeah, you have to go ahead, Paul.

I say, even if you know someone, you have to have a business card.

They really, really want you to be in the business.

And in what happens is you have to be like probably one of our listeners to want

to go to that kind of thing because when you get there, you realize, oh,

there's like halls full of like vendors for lighting, electrical stuff,

screws and bull screws.

Yeah, it's so many frickin wheels.

You are so sick of wheels.

You don't even know how many frickin Chinese wheel companies there are until

you've gone to Seaman.

But the best I would say the best part about Seaman is you do see some cool builds

and you see the the manufacturers or whoever booth it is trying to outdo.

And I remember my one story from the the only Seaman I've been to Bridgestone.

I think it was Bridgestone was there.

If you got a tattoo on a visible part of your body and it was like a three inch

diameter tattoo, a Bridgestone tattoo, they're going to give you tires.

And I thought, OK, maybe tires for life.

You're going to have this tattoo for life.

You get tires for life.

No, it was like three years worth of tires.

And there was a line of people to get the frickin tattoo.

I was like, you guys are nuts.

It was a real tattoo.

Real tattoo.

The guys sitting there like on the raised dais just all is like, look at this,

guys, I got it. Hold on.

Are you allowed to reset?

And specario 58.

Yes, I could show how over time just the atrophy made it look deflated.

Do you guys have any tattoos?

No, no holes, no piercings.

How can you not have any tattoos and live your life in Southern California?

There's there's nothing.

My daughter's into tattoos.

I'm not against getting a tattoo, but there's nothing that inspires me.

It has to be something like I don't want.

Someone's like, auto kennel.

I'm like, why the hell would I want a business like even my business name on it?

And I got a family members.

I don't know. They just there's nothing inspires me.

My whole back is a dragon.

Understandable.

I don't have a tattoo.

I was picturing your whole back is the the trans Am 6.9 screaming chicken.

Exactly.

OK, I was going to say something inappropriate.

I won't. Yes.

Good, Casey. We're waiting.

I was thinking like the Ferrari, like a Ferrari tramp stamp with like

dragon dragon wings coming off of the horse.

But just peeking out from the belt line.

Oh, you know what?

Casey just triggered me to just think of something.

I did have one automotive news thing happen or what I do in cars this week.

I was offered two new Ferraris.

Right. I was offered a prosangue and I was offered a 12 cylinder and those are

supposed to be hard to get, whatever, whatever.

And so long story short, I passed on both of them because when you look at those

things you're doing in the resell market, it is scary as hell.

So hard to know on both of those.

So that would be my only automotive thing.

And I told them to find me again when they are able to offer us a two ninety

six Pista Aperta allocation because we already declined them on the normal Pista.

At some point, Ferraris is going to stop offering us cars.

I have a feeling and that's OK, too.

Well, I feel like it's sort of like when you go to

when I used to go to dealer auctions, I'd win a car and then I'd be like, oh,

crap, what's wrong with it?

You know, you kind of got to wonder like, why are they offering it to me?

You know, do you ever get that feeling?

Like, are you they offering it to me because I never get that feeling?

OK, I know what you're talking about, Paul.

Well, that's more about Paul's deep roots in securities.

It is so deep rooted.

I know you know why they're offering you is because they want your money.

Yes, why they want your money and they think they gave them the money for it.

I love how patient Dave is waiting to get.

I know. OK, Dave, sorry.

You're up next, brother.

I got nothing. I mean, I just threw up this GTD behind me because I couldn't find.

There's no pictures or anything else.

But the news I saw.

Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, Dave.

No, had to do with Ford introducing a new sports car, road going sports car that

they're supposed to introduce in January at some F1 event.

So there's no pink.

There are no steaks.

Yeah, nothing, nothing.

So people are speculating that it is

potentially a replacement for the GT, like another version of the Ford GT.

You know, obviously, they're not going to do some variant because they describe it

as an all new car.

So I don't know if any of you guys have heard about this or any of our listeners

have heard about this, but I would sure love to know because that's a coming right up.

I mean, we're a couple of months away that they're going to debut this thing,

supposedly, so I mean, I heard rumblings of it and saw the little bits of news like

on automotive news. I think, I mean, if they're going to have it in January,

I just picture it being like a GTD light, like sort of like all the goodies from

the GTD that make the GTD good, which from what I understand is suspension is

probably the big, big thing about that car, which they didn't do the suspension.

Wasn't it a multi-matic that did the suspension?

So, you know, and going back to your question, Tim, you mentioned,

what do you think of the GTD?

I think more of Ford and I'm excited that Ford's doing something that the other

domestic manufacturers aren't doing, which is building something exciting.

You could see that, you know, Jim Farley, CEO, likes to race.

He's a car guy and it's trickling down that it's but it's huge, you know?

And it's heavy and it would be great if they made something to third scale.

Yeah, less horsepower.

I mean, really make it and it make a GT3 RS contender, not just from Nurburgring

lap times, but from like the fizz, like how it feels.

And I think I mentioned last time,

Matt Farah did that whole driving thing, whatever, for road and track.

And at the end, even though the GTD did really well and ZR1 did really well,

he grabbed the keys to the Porsche to actually drive on the street and drive home,

you know, drive back to the hotel.

Did you guys hear about the controversy that Matt got caught in over on?

I forget what it was.

And it was a carryover from one of the topics that we had from three or four

podcasts ago, where they're talking about basically our automotive journalists,

essentially given financial incentives or rather, maybe not overt like that,

but given disincentives to produce information that's not going to be very

flowery about the product.

I mean, I'm over using too many words, but the essence of it is their pay

all going on to get the automotive journals to sing wax poetic there.

I said at Paul about cars when they were being sent to Spain and they're being

sent to all these other things.

And I, I still have the opinion that it's inevitable.

I, okay.

So sorry for bringing this up.

You guys find this boring.

I know for a fact that if Ferrari calls me up and they fly Julie and I to

freaking Rome, Italy, or wherever and to do a test drive in a new Ferrari,

even there is nothing about that experience that I won't absolutely love

an adore. And if there's any shortcomings to the car, I certainly won't notice them.

So I could try to be as professional as I wanted to be, but I'm easily romanced.

So for them to Ferrari, if you're listening.

Oh, yeah, we have a bias reviewer ready to go.

I'm ready to go with everything packed.

You can give me my script to what to say.

I'm good. I'm ready to go.

But I mean, I can be bought.

Can't we all?

Well, that's my point though.

And he was defending the fact that it was, I forget, you know, there was a tribe

of people on one of these automotive websites that were going after automotive

journalists in particular about the fact that they're providing it's not like,

you guys remember back in the day when Top Gear would actually talk shit about

cars, who talks shit about cars anymore?

Oh, you remember, I mean, famously, the whole Jerry, Jeremy Clarkson and Tesla.

Yeah. I mean, that was just fiery back in the day.

Well, so as far as that, do you have any KC?

I didn't mean that. Were you going to say anything about the Ford? I didn't.

OK, so.

Well, I will point out there was a really good savage geese video that came out

recently, and we don't need to talk about it today.

Maybe we can talk about it next week.

But they did a driving comparison in dyno's of a GTD, the new ZR1 and the GT3 RS.

He said it, Paul.

I'll put it this way.

The ZR1, they dynoed it and it made like 1033 to the ground, which is insane.

So that would be over 1200 horsepower at the crank, correct?

I mean, yeah, that's how Chevy does it.

Corvette, I mean, Porsche would be like a thousand thirty at the crank.

Except they don't make anything with that much horsepower because they're inferior

to Corvette. So sorry, Casey.

I just thought it was an interesting video.

And honestly, it was it was pretty eye opening for how how how performance

oriented that ZR1 was.

The one interesting thing that they said about the GTD and the ZR1 is they're

both break by wire cars, which to me is really weird to even comprehend.

But that that really put me off on even thinking about them because I love that

tactile feeling of being able to feel where your foot is.

But anyway, I'd recommend everybody check out the video.

Maybe we can talk about it next time.

No, it was awesome.

And I propose to talk about it today.

But Paul said every time I bring up Corvette's, he hears the parent's voice

from Peanuts.

So I want exactly.

But I will say the new ZR1s are the I think the 2026s are getting different

front or getting different brakes and the brakes that they're getting are.

I don't remember the jib jab, but and I've watched that too.

And that I mean, of all the YouTube channels,

Casey, which is your favorite one?

As far as like guys that seem unbiased and providing really good drill down content.

I so I don't watch a whole lot of car reviews, to be honest with you.

But Jason Camisa is probably my favorite.

Mine too.

So you guys aren't really kind of surprised and shocked and wanting to fall

on your swords a little bit, the reality being that all these people that we all

love and respect are essentially crowning the ZR1, the king of the hill,

even though cars that are 10 times more expensive, you guys aren't really ready

to admit that yet.

But as I've talked about it before,

overall speed is not something that I care about.

I care like the like look at this 914 behind me, right?

Like I would rather drive that than a brand new ZR1 or a brand new GT3 RS or a

brand new Mustang GTD, because it's all about the experience of feeling that in

your hands and just the the romance of driving.

I don't need to go fast.

For sure, I agree with you.

100%, 99% of the time, that's going to be a vastly more interesting drive.

Tim, why don't you sell your Ferrari and get a ZR1?

I'm not good at the ore part of the conversation.

I've never done good with ores.

That's the reason we have too many cars.

So I am probably going to get a ZR1.

Honestly, I'm going to I'm going to wait.

I'm going to wait in the tall grass to see what they do with production.

And I'm probably I'm going to get one because I truthfully so

I think it was on that video, Casey, you might remember better than me

to answer my own question, by the way, I think those guys do the best job.

And then Jason's right up there.

But those guys do a really fantastic job interviewing engineers and they actually

know their shit, which I really appreciate.

But as far as the ZR1 goes, the thing that nobody is talking about or at least not

talking about with the respect that those cars deserve is the what they're doing

on the track and there was a Casey was at that video.

It was wasn't it where they had an actual pro driver

that was driving the ZR1 on that same day, same track against the RS,

the GT3 RS and against the GTD.

And it was like significant.

It was two seconds faster than the GT3 RS.

Yeah.

And so it was three roughly two seconds faster than the GT3 RS and roughly three

seconds faster than the GTD.

But to me, the fact that the Porsche does it

within two seconds with,

call it, I think they said it made like four hundred and sixty to the ground

versus thousand thirty three to the ground.

And of course, I know the Porsche is more expensive than all those things.

But making use of power, I mean, I'm not making excuses, right?

It certainly had a faster lap time.

I understand that.

But the fact that Porsche is able to do that

and provide repeatable numbers and all that stuff, you know,

with less than half the horsepower to me is is is pretty awesome.

You can't fake weight.

I mean, they talked about how heavy the the the other cars felt.

I think the the Corvette was six hundred pounds heavier.

And I think the Mustang was almost twelve hundred pounds heavier than the than the

Porsche. So they're big girls. Yeah. Yeah.

So I don't know.

I don't need to wax on it, but everybody go watch the video and agreed.

Smash that like button.

Post a comment.

We I mean,

sorry, I'm on medication today.

The most the thing I'm most excited about a ZR one,

the most excited is for you, Tim, to get one.

And then there's going to be this slow

trickle from Amazon of your starter kit.

Like one day, some Jorts will show up in the mail.

And then next day, some calf socks.

And then the new balances will show up.

You know, the Corvette hat, you know, I live in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

I mean, it's just going to be fun to watch.

We can outfit you.

You will be set and everyone on the island will go, Tim, he's the Corvette guy.

Oh, I never have that here.

Never, never return address will be Paul Kramer, of course.

Right. So I'll be coming from Amazon by a fall.

But Dave, since you're the only one here with a full operating brain,

would you agree that the ZR one in the in the realm in the North Carolina roads

and whatnot, the ZR one and the GT3RS granted, they're both a little wide for

some of the roads, especially the ones going to to like Highlands and whatnot.

But come on, what the hell are you?

How can you do those?

That's just those are ideal cars.

I agree with you, I think they're definitely fun cars.

And I'm not disagreeing with either Paul or Casey on this, because I think now

having driven the GT3RS around a little bit, it's just a different experience.

It's it's it's different, different tickets at Disneyland, right?

I mean, that's kind of the way to describe it.

And I like all the tickets.

So, you know, I'm curious as well as to, you know, what the future is on cars like

this in terms of, you know, where is the where were the value propositions stay

on the ZR one and the GTD after, let's say, a year from now, right?

Is the GTD going to fall?

Because those things are trading in GT3RS land right now to 400 grand or whatever.

I mean, they won't fall as hard as they won't fall as hard as the ZR one,

because they're just they can't make as many.

Aren't they losing money on every single one they make?

So it's going to be like the four GT.

I think they'll always have a value just based on production.

And Corvette is, you know, this is what makes Corvette Corvette is they

democratize everything and they're just going to make as many chips as people will

eat and they will just keep building them and building them.

And and there will be plenty of options for everyone to have a one of one,

you know, you know, 45,000 one of one Corvette ZR ones.

I mean, obviously, they won't make that interesting to your point when we first

started this conversation about Ford as to whether or not like you're suggesting

that this new model will effectively be a Mustang that's, you know,

just dumbed down a little bit to make it more accessible to the masses price wise.

Right. Is that is that what they do with this car?

That's what I think, because that's the only way they can make money.

They're going to try to make it productionable, which means I imagine

they get a version of this that's maybe 120 grand, it'll it'll be cheaper than

the Corvette, it will perform less than the Corvette, but it'll be attainable.

And maybe it'll be like the new Mustang Cobra R, like the the latest version.

Or, you know, I haven't kept up with those.

But in the end, I'm excited that they're all doing it.

I mean, we're living in the most horsepower time of our lives.

And you just and you sort of wonder, like, you know, five years ago,

we thought that was it.

And then when the C sevens, the R one came out, which was absolutely ludicrous,

like that is like no one's going to go do anything as stupid.

So moving us forward.

And so can you guys all count of three?

Give me a good eye roll before I say what I'm about to say.

One, two, three, I roll.

OK, there you go.

All right. Have you guys heard about the new?

Have you been hearing that they're going to supposedly finally release

the Tesla Roadster this year?

And there's going to be pictures, whole design things.

Elon talked about it on Joe Rowan's podcast.

But here's the thing that's crazy.

Supposedly it's going to have rocket boosters that causes the car to levitate.

Just you know, it's just he's white.

It's all white noise.

I don't even care.

I don't like rocket boosters.

Sonder works Sonder works built me a car with rocket boosters.

All right, let's move on.

Come on. Nobody cares about this fake news.

No more even.

Yeah, I don't think I don't think it is fake news.

I think it's real news, but I'm not sure again.

It's well, we're just talking about the ZR one and I don't like electric cars either.

But there is a definitely interesting turn in the road that we should be aware of

that there's going to be some things coming around in the next year that are

going to really make the fast cars today not seem so fast.

And Casey, I'm right in line with you.

I love the 1954 Triumph TR2.

I got so much pleasure and enjoyment out of that.

I honestly do believe that there's diminishing returns in driving an ever more

fast fricking car.

It's nauseating.

And if you feel like you're going to barf as the driver, no bueno.

All right, buddy of mine real quick.

A buddy of mine was in one of those new M5 tourings the other day and he drives

fast cars and he basically told me that it felt Taycan turbo as fast.

And from coming from him, that's that that's really says something.

He actually said the dynamics on the car were really good too.

So I'm excited to get some seat time in one of those coming up.

Segment three.

And this is something that I think Kramer thought of.

I could have had a V12.

How can you claim to be a car guy if you've never owned a V12?

Everyone should own a V12 once in their life.

You gave Jason Kamista credit for that, but a lot of people said that.

And it's definitely true.

Why compromise and buy yet another 9-11?

Be at a GT3 touring or RS or a GT2.

If you rarely do canyons or track days for less than $600,000, what are your two?

You didn't do it.

What are your two V12 alternatives?

Has to be a V12 or a flat 12, no W12s, one moderate and one advantage.

Think of it as a perfect two car V12 garage solution.

And by the way, we this could be done on four hundred thousand.

If if it could be done on four hundred thousand.

Yeah, you're just saying that because your first suggested idea was a 750 IL,

which tells me you have no experience with those cars.

No, but if you you get some

great car and rebuild it, it would be bitching.

So you get to go last, Paul.

All right, Dave, you go first.

What are your two V12?

What are your two 12?

Are you doing good, Casey?

Are you good, Casey?

OK, good.

Modern car first.

So in this case, I think I'm just taking a slightly more modern version of the car

that Casey may have eyeballed as well.

But this is a twenty twenty three S and Martin Vantage V12.

I think this particular one had under three hundred thousand,

excuse me, three hundred miles on it.

So it's effectively a brand new car that's two years old or soon to be three years

old, did not make reserve when someone tried to sell it on BAT, hit about two

hundred and thirty five grand.

But this was a car.

I mean, it's an effectively brand new car that somebody held that's over three

hundred thousand dollars new and unfortunately, like so many Aston's,

this one with no usage, still shit the bed.

So great looking car.

I mean, I think the car is just an absolute stunner.

It's gorgeous. It's V12 powered, obviously.

I'm sure the specs are unbelievable.

Fantastic. The interior, I don't have a picture of the interior on this one,

but there's a picture that find five point two liter V12 motor.

So that would be let me just repeat what you said.

That's you said three hundred miles.

It's three miles.

It's three years and that's that car didn't sell for two.

The seller didn't sell it for two low two hundreds.

Correct. Wow.

I think they were looking at two fifty people on the on the thread suggested

this was probably a two fifty car, but I mean, it's effectively a brand new car.

And I doubt it's very different from the twenty five.

You know, full car, great car.

This is one of those cases where I'm I'm throwing something in here because

you guys insisted on this whole 12 cylinder thing.

So there's one that is awesome, though.

That's a good choice. It's a great car.

Now, it is it is an automatic.

They didn't make a manual in this car.

He that that was a good choice, Dave.

But if you would have stuck with an 18,

which I don't think was worth the technology difference manual V12 manual.

Like, hmm, there's so few options for a V12 manual.

And by the way, that car, the Diablo behind you, if I had to say what

Lam what 12 cylinder is all about Dave Van Epps, that is a Diablo.

I totally peg you as a Diablo guy.

Oh, yeah, you can see me getting out of this, right?

Oh, gosh, chains and rolling out of the car trying to climb over the sill to get

out of this thing.

But I got to tell you that I do I do have a little bit of a soft spot.

If somebody forced me with a gun to have a Lamborghini,

this might be the one I would probably get.

It's it's always got a little bit more refinement than the Kuntas.

I've always thought this car looked just a little bit more put together than the

Kuntas, which always felt to me like there was a few angles on the Kuntas that

just didn't fit in the design.

But this car, I think they smoothed out a few lines.

They did a few things that made it a really sweet looking car.

Obviously, the interior is pretty,

you know, pedestrian, so to speak, by modern standards.

But it's a you don't want to you don't want a Ferrari, Dave.

No Ferrari.

I believe I said in my notes that is because I would absolutely not buy any

Ferrari, so I had to have something with a V12.

So I went with the Lamborghini.

So let me ask you, let me ask you just to poke it to him a little bit.

I have no real issues with Ferrari.

Let me ask you questions about that.

First of all, have you seen a Diablo Diablo GT ever in real life?

The GT version?

You should check it out.

You should look at pictures of that car.

One of the coolest looking freaking cars you've ever seen, the Diablo GT.

But I'll say this as well, I have two friends that collect those V12

Lamborghinis and the increase in value, called inflation, called appreciation

of those cars over the last 18 months is amazing.

So if there's going to be a runaway,

appreciating asset in a car as much as it can be an asset, I don't, you know,

that's debatable, but those are it.

So I think that those are actually fantastic choices.

So go you. That's a high thank you.

Dave, if you want to come up, I look after two Diablos, a 92 and a 99.

You are more than welcome to come up and go for a drive.

Oh, beautiful.

Casey, what do you think of them?

Do you get to drive them much?

I do. The 92 is interesting.

It is basically, to me, it feels like a continuation of a Countach.

It's very manual.

There's no power steering.

There is the clutch is super stiff, like the stiffest clutch you've ever felt.

And the other one I look after is a 1999.

That car is a lot more usable.

It's got power assisted clutch, power steering.

Is that out of the era?

No, it's right at the end.

OK, that car is also awesome.

It's a Momo edition, so it has a all the it's yellow and red.

I'll get some pictures of it for the next podcast, but it also came with a leather

yellow, a leather yellow and red Momo jacket and driving gloves.

It's awesome.

So it sounds like you'd like that.

So the Diablo is how much, Dave?

Uh, this was the Diablo was only 266.

This way at 8000 miles on it.

Did it sell?

Let me double check that.

I thought it did.

Let me just look real quick because I have a link right here.

I mean, again, it sold for 266 and that was back in September that this car sold for 266.

What do you guys think about that car for 266?

What do you?

I think I think that, like, like Casey said, the early, early ones aren't

necessarily as desirable because they're Kuntosch continuations.

And I don't know enough about them.

I think as you get to either like the GT, which are really special, or you get to

the Audi era ones where they refined them and made them almost car like the Diablo

is kind of like kind of like the middle kid on Brady Bunch.

Like Jane, like in the beginning, she's kind of like Kuntosch.

And then towards the end, she's kind of like precursor to Murcia Lago.

And and and because, you know, during that period, the 90s didn't

didn't Lamborghini go through like three different owners, like all these different

owners and the Diablo just kept on getting like changed from one manufacturer to another.

So I just think for that money, for that money, for that money.

I mean, that seems like it really, honestly, that's kind of bad.

If you want, it'd be a nice piece to have in a collection for sure.

Sure. Yeah.

I mean, the problem I have is I would go by the best world's best aspada for that.

Well, I mean, but as far as experienced cars, what Casey was leading into earlier

with that nine fourteen six, that's a really, you know, in a world where everything's

starting to kind of feel the same and look the same, smell the same.

That's going to be a unique experience.

So so far, Dave set the bar high.

Casey, you get to go next.

So Dave's kind of stole one of mine and I'm going to blame him for it.

So I did a little bit of a pivot manual transmission V12 vantage, I think,

is a super rag car, the car behind me.

I don't even I don't even I deleted it because I saw that Dave picked one as well.

I actually I had picked that car, too.

Casey, that exact car, that's the car that that Dave should have picked.

Yes, so it's a super rag car.

But being that Dave picked it, I had to pivot.

So by the way, for the listeners,

the listeners, Casey picked the manual transmission of what Dave picked.

Basically, yeah.

So and I honestly think that aesthetically, like to me, that is a beautiful car.

When Aston Martin started rounding edges and stuff like that,

I kind of grew away from it in the vantage platform.

But anyway, I digress.

So car number one is a 1992 Alpina B12 five liter coupe.

I think BMW eight fifties are super cool cars.

I love Alpinas.

We need to someday we need to have an Alpina like an Alpina section,

because I do think that they're super rad.

This particular car is they made 97 of them.

This car sold on bring a trailer for ninety six thousand dollars.

It had a ton of miles on it, but it's super cool and beautiful.

And then I'd use the rest of it

of the six hundred grand to buy a 1999 Mercedes Benz SL 73.

For those of you that are not familiar,

this is the car that Pagani took the motor from for the Zonda.

And I think that R 129 SL is a super cool car.

Aesthetically, I think it's stunning and that engine I think is insane.

And if I'm not going to pick a Ferrari or a Lamborghini,

I guess I got to pick a BMW and a Mercedes.

So, Casey, which one of those in your mind is the modern car out of curiosity?

I meant, well, the modern car was the Aston Martin, but Dave screwed up.

Dave screwed me up.

So I had to pivot last minute this morning.

So the game, the game, Casey, is to get your answers in the spreadsheet first.

And that way, basically, you can pick all the coolest.

I was I was ahead of Dave's.

Thank you very much.

And then he was first.

That and then I figured that I have to be my my role in this podcast is a contrarian.

So I don't listen to any of the instructions that I am given.

And I always have to pick weird shit.

So I want to talk about I want to talk about his two choices,

because those are freaking awesome, fricking unbelievably cool cars.

I mean, just honestly, both of those are awesome.

What do you think, Paul?

Well, what is the combined value of those cars?

So the the 1999 SL 73 did not sell at 420,000 euros.

Hold on. Hold on.

What it looks like it looks like a stock R 129 with Angie Monoblox, right?

Is there visually anything different about that car?

Maybe rockers, maybe different rockers.

No badges.

I mean, who knows?

It's the bumpers, the front bumper looks a little different.

OK, so now I'm shocked because I'm looking at like Dave,

we both said, OK, the other one's a hundred, two hundred grand.

Guys, you guys know a garage for two hundred grand.

But do you guys know what that thing is, though?

No, I have no idea.

No, but seriously, joking aside, have you ever heard of that before, Paul?

No, I it's like the I mean, other than like an AMG hammer like this is.

And, you know, like CLK GTR, like this is like peak Mercedes AMG, especially in

generation of cars, too.

That's when they were still the best built Mercedes after that.

But yeah.

And so and by the way, just a little teaser for next week for lunch today,

my client recently acquired a true pre-merger AMG hammer three three hundred

CE body coupe from the eighties.

Wow. And I'm going to I'm driving it to lunch today.

And so you'll see pictures if he lets me post them and stuff next week.

So I've never driven a real true AMG pre-merger hammer.

But so, Paul, I will invite you if you want to drive the only two door manual

transmission AMG hammer built, you can come out and go for a drive whenever you want.

That's incredible.

And I'll take the Diablo as well.

Casey's life will be ripping it around here.

Casey likes to do a back kick right in the back of your head.

Just like I said, on the way out the door, he just gives you one big shove in the back.

But I know those are so what would you guys choose?

Honestly, I mean, it's not a choice thing, but I think that's again for Shady's.

I mean, I've I've not driven the Alpina version of the eight fifties.

I've driven the eight fifties CSIs and even like Jason talks about in the video,

they're beautiful and there's just this underwhelming nature.

They look so good.

They sound good.

Everything about them is great.

But when you drive them and yes, their nineties car and their GT cars,

it's not about dynamic performance, but they just feel like BMW was so afraid to

be angry and outrageous that they just muted the whole car.

And that's kind of the bad thing about it.

Whereas I think AMG not knowing nothing about the R 129 that Casey talked about.

But AMG in this period was the beginning of just getting rowdy.

I mean, like we're going to build pace cars that are are louder than the F1 cars.

This is even special.

So Casey, I'm sorry if I'm asking you something you don't know.

But am I correct that that was a Mercedes product, not an AMG product?

Yeah, I mean, Mercedes bought AMG.

No, I understand.

Yeah, so it wasn't.

Yeah, it was a stand.

It wasn't under. It wasn't, you know, an AMG.

No, it was it was a it was a Mercedes product.

Yeah, I mean, those did they make?

None.

Let me let me look at this.

No, they made a lot, but they were, you know, no, no, no, but this whatever.

What is it called?

SL 75.

What's the name of it?

Yeah, and if you you guys can find a listener, sorry, if we're talking too long

about this old Benz, but you've got to go on YouTube and listen to what those

things sound like when they put tuned exhausts on them.

Oh, yeah.

Because oh, my God.

So I'm reading now and it says I pardon my ignorance regarding this.

I am definitely not super aware of the car started as a SL 600 and then it was

fitted with the following components, an AMG engine.

So maybe this is something something else.

And no, I'm probably screaming at their this Porsche guy doesn't know anything

about Mercedes. Yeah.

Well, I mean, you're not you're the world's expert in 997s.

One wouldn't expect you to be the world's expert on a V12 Mercedes.

So it started as an SL 600 and then it looks like AMG or that division of

Mercedes converted it to an a 7.3 liter with all that stuff.

And Tim, they made roughly they can't figure it out.

40, 50 to 80, 85 units for sure.

Sure.

And yeah, we've talked too much about this.

Casey, you keep on coming up with these awesome things to talk about.

And as old nerds are just going to geek out for hours if we don't stop ourselves.

That's my job.

I'm done.

I picked the Alpina because I think Alpinas are super rad and we need to have

an Alpina conversation next time.

I agree.

You actually agree.

OK, so we're going to.

OK, I got to write this shit down and I'll forget.

All right.

So first of all, that Alpina in particular, because I believe

that's Hannah Red was gorgeous.

All right, Alpina.

And then we were also going to talk about zero ones.

Just let me know which week I should be sick.

Never.

All right, I'll go next.

If you guys don't mind, can one of you guys help me with my pictures?

I'm sorry, I didn't save these.

All right, we're going to start.

OK, we can start with that one.

And that was the car that was the car you picked.

It should be this one, but, you know, we'll get to that.

OK, I agree with Paul.

But OK, so going with my vintage, it's a 512 TR and a manual transmission.

Or Paul, can you pull up the other one I put up, which was the 83 512 BBI?

Oh, I thought you had the person the person and I refused to pull that up.

That's my that's my modern one.

I know, I agree, but that's the modern one.

So as far as I'll get the the other one, thank you.

So as far as the vintage goes, it would be a Ferrari.

It would be a flat 12.

It would be either a Testerosa with the manual transmission

or it would be a early 80s 512 BBI.

And both basically the 512, if you guys don't know, is the car that spawned.

Arguably, it's the first modern Ferrari supercar.

And guys that are building collections always start with those cars.

But if I, you know, that's my vintage selection.

And as far as go ahead, there you go.

What do you mean?

Do you know that?

Do you know the trivia with, you know, the what BB stands for?

Not a boxer, isn't it?

Yeah, maybe.

Yes, technically Berlin at a boxer, but I forgot.

And this I'm probably screwing this up, but it was urban myth.

The designer or someone at Ferrari was just infatuated with.

A Bridgette Bordeaux just forgot her name in that period.

And really, it was an homage, like a tribute to her or like a love letter to her.

And yeah, Bridgette Bordeaux, sorry.

And both of those cars now that we can pull ourselves out of the 1950s, Paul,

both of those cars with our movie history are in the low 200s.

All right, OK, but this is the one you should have picked instead of the 512

TR. And by the way, all five twelves came with manual transmissions.

But but this this was Casey helped me out with this one.

Plus, it was white on white cocaine, which I thought would look really good in

Puerto Rico. Well, isn't that a 512 T.R.?

The other one was a test rosa.

That's a 512 T.R.

And this what was this one?

Well, I think that's a test rosa.

All test roses came in the annual and that's the one that's in the low 200s.

And I'm not sure you're right that all 512 T all five twelves.

Shit, the newer iteration of that.

I think you could go with that in the original F1 transmissions, but I could be wrong.

I don't think so. I think they're all sticks.

OK, I agree. Yep.

But no, I so I'm sorry.

I keep it. No, no, no.

Casey, I'm curious.

What would you? You're a.

So have you ever driven a test rosa?

I have.

What were your thoughts?

I have not. I have not.

So I'm not tall. I'm five, nine, so I fit fine.

I did OK. Yeah, my feet were uncomfortable

because your feet are kind of on those cars from that vintage are off to the right.

The steering wheel is dead center, feet are off to the right.

So as far as like an experience, it was an experience.

As far as the noise wasn't really impressed.

As far as the looks, you know, did I buy it?

Is the question, the answer is no.

Yeah, they drive.

It's like it's like an early Diablo that it's a it's a very odd,

very interesting sense of occasion once you're in the car.

It's got the multiple moving seatbelt things in it.

That's that's kind of interesting.

The 512 TR refined a significant amount of all of the stuff

that they kind of got wrong in the test rosa being that I'm an outrun guy.

I really have always loved the test rosa, including the convertible one.

But there's an interesting YouTube channel.

We were talking about YouTube channels with this guy, Radarosa.

He's in England, but basically he does restoration work on Ferraris.

Give him a look because he did a really good video series on his BBI.

And he also has, of course, like a fake convertible test.

Well, it's not fake, but it was a the Radarosa is a convertible test

rosa that I know it's been to Radwood and those kind of things.

But both both interesting, that's an interesting choice.

I think I like the BBI better personally.

So my other car, which you guys don't need to show a picture of is the Per Sangue.

So the Per Sangue, if you choose the base price, which you can't really

get one for a base price, plus one of the 512 or the TR, it fits within our budget.

And I agree with you, Casey, I would choose that one too.

What do you think, Paul?

Oh, yeah, I mean, I was on a drive on highway one

behind my friend and his BB with open exhaust, no, you know, just headers.

I mean, I don't know how he drives that, but just for the half hour driving down

highway one, it was an early COVID when highway one was still open and no one was on it.

And just listening to that 12 cylinder open pipes.

I felt like I was at Monaco, you know, in early 70s watching a race.

It was awesome. We didn't do watches, by the way.

We needed to throw that in because I wore my Monaco.

But so the, but the demure size of cars from that early 80s generation, I'm all in.

Dave, what do you think between the two?

I like those two.

I like the BB I better.

And to me, it has a combination look that hold from Daytona, as well as, you know,

308, 328, it just kind of carries on, which is the first of those generations

that I really did like, you know, those, those early cars.

So that's why I would pick that one.

Cool. All right, Paul, you're next.

What do you got?

OK, so for those who know me, I have a 99 BMW M coupe that I raised.

I've owned it since new.

It's my longest relationship of anything that I'm not sharing blood with.

And when I saw this come out between Jeremy Clarkson's review on top gear

in the ice with it, I fell in love with this car.

Now, it's the Ferrari FF, and I know they then did some changes

and came out with the Luso.

I like the FF better.

I think the FF visually will age.

Yes, the Luso's technology better.

But when these become 20 year old cars, I think the FF is going to have value.

They actually had some cool colors like this color green.

I'm kind of bummed because there was about three years ago,

one 10 to one 15 would buy you a car like this.

Now, this car or one like it, a green FF recently with 42,000 miles

sold for $143,000.

And by the way, 42,000 miles on an F.

Like if that was most any other Ferrari, that would be crazy high miles.

For an FF, that's like average.

These cars were so many people's daily drivers.

The only thing bad about them is if you and I if you pull up a side elevation,

they just look like that Beetlejuice character where he stretches his face

really long, they just look long.

But check out an FF or this is actually a Luso as a rally car.

Yeah, I saw that at SEMA.

That looked really cool.

How cool is that?

I mean, you know, I am all about that.

So I will, you know, for the first few years, daily drive it,

kiddie car, whatever.

And then boom, we're going Safari.

So that's you can get an FF for you can find a really not great color,

kind of tired one for low 100s, 115, 120.

And you can find something like that green one, cool color for one that one sold.

Gosh, a week ago for 143 plus fees, so 150.

And then one of my favorite cars, which also have you driven a Luso or an FF,

Paul and a Luso, I drove it for a quarter mile on a rally.

I'll post pictures.

I absolutely hate driving other people's cars, especially on a rally.

We were on a DWA rally and there was an accident.

We were waiting for it to get cleaned up.

These really sweet couple were there with a white Luso.

There was a, I don't know, 2018, 19, whatever it was.

And the lady's talking to my dad and my dad tells her how much I love those cars.

And she's like you and he is trying.

They're both trying to convince me to drive it.

I'm like, I don't want to drive it.

I go, I'm on a rally.

I don't want to drive anyone's car.

Like I'll test drive it at my home.

So once, once for a short distance.

Yeah.

So I get in the car and I drive a quarter mile and it's on a kind of a crappy road.

And I guess a little rock hit the sidewall.

Instant flat tire.

I spent five and a half hours roadside waiting to get that car flatbed.

Rally day done.

I was, I was so fricking pissed.

Support your gods.

We're telling you something right.

I knew it.

Actually, I didn't know I haven't really driven it.

So have you guys ever driven an FF or a Lusso?

No, what are they like?

I had a Lusso and it feels like a big GT car that is a very, you know,

it feels exactly like what you expected to feel like.

It's not particularly surprising as far as the overall experience.

So it's honestly, it's a great daily driver, but for the same amount of money

or a lot less, there are a lot of other but better alternatives.

And that's what the market said to with those cars.

And that's why I like it.

I like the weird, ugly, strange and no, this was an era, Paul.

This was an era back in the day where what those cars cost and what they were

doing in terms of depreciation, there were cars that arguably, like, you know,

we had one for a very short period of time on our trip to getting the Pista.

And, um, yeah, I mean, it was just, it was what it was.

I mean, Julie preferred her Lincoln navigator over that thing.

She could choose either one and she had a vintage low miles, 560 SL.

And she would always drive the fricking navigator.

Casey, I'm sorry.

Did you have a V8 rear drive or did you have a V12 four wheel drive?

V12, I don't remember.

Yeah.

No, because they did make some V8.

They did.

V8 rear drive cars, which I think would be kind of, because the issue with those

cars from what I recall, especially in the FF is the front differential, I think.

Um, goes bad.

I think from Ferrari, they're super expensive.

There's a company in England that rebuilds them, I think, for like 20 or $30,000.

Can you do a conversion like the 996 turbos where you just

rear wheel drive?

No idea.

Yeah.

No idea.

Paul, you just don't bolt the front axles.

You're good.

So, and this is a car that kind of like, you know, this is another for our

advantage for Ferrari.

It is a, uh, sorry about that.

It's a 1972 365 GTC four.

Um, this one is, uh, kind of a light blue, um, metallic.

I think they look really good in light blue.

And if you notice something about them, these are the ones that had the big

rubber fish lips for a bumper that kind of went all the way around.

And this is the cool look is, and most people are doing this now as they're

painting that front rubber lip.

I'm not sure how well the paint holds.

You know, Dave, imagine painting a 50 year old rubber lip or maybe it's a

fiberglass replacement.

But the thing about these cars, it's, it's the two plus two version of the Daytona.

And for, although I have not driven one, it's weird with Ferraris.

If you take a 12 cylinder two door Ferrari and you put back seats in it, even

though the back seats are completely useless, the value drops by like 75%.

And what's unique about this car compared to the Daytona, the Daytona is like a truck.

These are transaxle cars.

They're supposed to be, I think they might even have power steering.

They're actually really, really nice to drive, basically the same engine.

You can get these for anywhere.

This one bid, uh, in February of this year to 190,000 on bring a trailer.

Um, these basically court, this is, you know, you can get anywhere from 200 to

250, depending on color and condition.

And I just think, you know, they're kind of similar.

You know, I liked that look, that long front end and that short rear end look.

Um, the only thing about the, the, you know, the, they call them C fours is the

back end has triple lights and it looks a little.

So when you guys, when you guys are going to get your V12s, you were all, so I've

had one V12 or, I mean, we house, we had again for maybe six months, uh, a 550.

Uh, and we had an Aventador, right?

So we had those, the car, and then we had that Lusso, right?

But, you know, this would be the, the FF would be the closest thing to a V12 I

would get today.

Um, the Mercedes, all those, you know, or the 750 I L, I kind of dig, but this

would have to be like a client, baby, 38, this would be a client brings me, you

know, one that they've maintained forever.

They put stupid money into it.

It's worth, because you can get a, just a decent driver, 750 I L for probably

mid 20s, you know, about the motors and the electronics and those cars, I

know that I have a 928.

Yes, they're, they're, they're all shit.

They're, they're two six cylinder BMW motors, which basically have all the

double sets of all the electronics.

Yeah.

And they, and they always break.

And so, so it's, but it's, so, so it's 25 grand, but you just budget 50 and

that'll get you for the first three years.

All right.

I think we got to everyone on that.

Oh, so let's do, I forget, uh, forgot, sorry, full throttle talk newsletter.

So if you subscribe to full throttle talk newsletter, it costs you nothing.

And it is, I think when we, all the, by the way, guys, we need to start working

our full throttle talk, uh, private Facebook group to, um, you know, Josh

will lie, he yelled at us basically, uh, for not posting there more frequently.

So we got to follow up on that.

But listen, if you want the full throttle talk newsletter, it's free.

The subscription is free.

Just go to fullthrottletalk.com or click the link below.

And when you do, you are going to receive from Mr.

Ben Epps a lovely full throttle talk window sticker.

So do not delay.

The subscription is obviously free.

It's not just the podcasts and our notes, but it's also a lot of really great

articles, um, that we are submitting and having a lot of fun.

Paul, you had some really killer articles in there recently.

And I actually a good time to mention if you want to submit articles, uh, to

our newsletter and it, you think our, obviously our, uh, our folks would be

interested, then definitely send them over to us messages over on, um, Instagram.

Just send me a direct message.

And if you're, you know, we'll help you tee up your content and put it in a newsletter.

All right.

Good.

Are you guys ready to move on?

Yeah.

All right.

So let's talk about this one.

This is something everyone's talking about.

I'm not sure what, if you guys are going to give me a lukewarm, um, you know,

response to this, but segment four, Porsche 911 turbos.

For those who don't want to spend new turbo money, fun facts, the new flagship

halo, nine 11 turbo turbo S is also the fastest appreciating nine 11.

I think it's always been true.

Um, are there bargains hiding in the nine 11 turbo back catalog that offer

tremendous value given the fact that the new turbo S manufactured the base price

is 300 grand.

What do you think Casey out the door with options, 350 probably.

I haven't built a new one, but I know they're really expensive.

That's for sure.

Yep.

Uh, and so let's talk about it.

Let's discuss what would be the back catalog alternatives if you didn't

want to, you know, shovel out 350 grand.

I mean, I, I think with turbos, it's, you always go a back to full gent,

like two, we'll see three generations.

So right now we have the 992.2 that just came out.

That's 350 or more.

There's the 992.1 skip that one.

There's the 991.2 skip that one and boom, you get to the 991.1.

So what I have found with turbos is when they become roughly 10 to 15 year old

cars, that is the ultimate sweet spot because no one cares.

And these cars are ridiculously fast.

I mean, this one here behind, I sold it to a good friend of ours in

there, Scottsdale, when it was cheap.

This was a paint to sample oak green metallic.

That's gorgeous.

It was beautiful.

I mean, I think at the time this car window stickered in 2000.

It's a 14 first year, the Turbo S 991.1.

I want to say it window stickered for like 210, 205.

It was a high, which was crazy money.

It was highly optioned.

I think the average was probably like 185.

You can get these cars now for probably, I mean, for a while, they were in the

115, 120s.

Now they're probably in the creeping up to 135, 140s.

And I think the creep up isn't because people have found magic value.

I think what's happened is just the cost of the new ones is trickling down.

Tariffs inflation has just made these things a little more expensive, but

they're not going up in my opinion based on people think they're collectible.

And they are, I drove this one to Cars and Coffee when I had it for sale.

I was like 2017.

I remember getting on the freeway and it's just early in the morning.

I'm just cruising.

And I remember thinking to myself, I was so annoyed.

Everyone, I was like, why is everyone doing a parade on the 55 freeway?

I'm doing 115.

Like, allegedly, nine.

Benign, like, it's a statute of limitations.

Allegedly, but it would just, it felt like completely like floating.

I mean, I almost could get out and walk.

And I remember being so annoyed until I looked at the speedometer.

So awesome vehicles.

And, you know, Dave, take it away, but you can just skip all the way down the

generations and the car you just pointed out would certainly be the sweet spot.

For sure.

If somebody looking for sweet spot, I have one of those here right now.

We're doing a PPI on for a client that delivered yesterday and I drove it a little

bit. Amazing car.

I think the one I think it's being offered at $130,000 blue.

It's got 18,000 miles on it.

I mean, that's that's a hell of a deal.

I mean, with those kind of miles on it and it's gorgeous.

I mean, that that's the beauty of the 991.

I still think the 991 is one of the best Porsche generations of the 911.

Just overall appearance, that combination of size, the lines,

it still ties together better than a 997 does, in my opinion, especially in the

back end, especially in the back end, the back end is great.

Now, obviously a 930 is a I mean, those are trading in similar dollars right now.

I mean, depending on what kind of 930 you're talking about, but what a completely,

completely different driving experience.

It's really what you want.

I mean, the driving experience between that 991 and a 930.

I mean, it's it's apples and gorillas.

I mean, there's there's nothing even remotely the same about those two cars

and driving experience.

What would I be afraid of if I was?

OK, I'm listening to you guys talk.

I wanted to get a new 911 turbo.

I'm thinking to myself the use case for these cars.

I mean, how you're going to use them is identical.

They both look gorgeous.

They're both amazing.

They're both modern.

One's not intrinsically better than the other, I suppose.

Maybe one has a warranty.

What should I be afraid of in an older turbo?

Well, I mean, first of all, the 991.1 and the 997.2 turbo s.

I think are from a mechanical standpoint.

They've proven to be really bulletproof.

I mean, this picture here is a so a 2012 or 11 or 12.997.2 turbo s.

It had like 45,000 miles.

We sold it six months ago for 100, 105.

And in my opinion, Dave's right, you buy the 991.1 turbo.

You're going to spend 125 to 150, depending on color and miles.

And if you really want a modern turbo, but you're on a restrictive budget,

you look at the 997.2 turbo s, which is going to be closer to 100.

Or if you get the non-turbo s PDK, you're now looking at probably 90.

You know, 95.

And in terms of reliability, here's a perfect example.

This is the one I sold to Magnus Walker.

It was a 14 turbo s one owner.

I sold it to him for 100 with 165,000 miles.

And it just rolled over 200.

It just rolled over 200.

And I and here's the funniest thing is he comes to my shop.

It's like three years ago to buy the car or look at the car.

I was shocked, but he loves it was a really good value

because it was the highest mileage turbo s but one owner.

And going back to your question, Tim, the one week link of the 997.2

and the 91.1 is the PDK transmission.

Early on, people didn't realize you had to service them and you do.

But even that, I think they're like kind of like the old days,

they're probably like 120 to 130,000 mile transmission of service properly.

And to replace it is 20 to $25,000.

But here's the other thing that's starting to fail with PDK

transmissions, the early ones, there's these sensors on them

that Portia will not sell you the sensors.

You've probably dealt with this, Dave.

No, but we have the guy, we have the magic guy.

We talked about that.

Yeah, we have the magic guy.

But well, hold on, because they're going to ask us about that.

Dave, can you pull up that dude's information again

so we can give him another plug?

Because after you mentioned this before, a whole bunch of shows ago,

we got so many people asking you about that.

I'm not sure if I can, Tim.

I've got to go back.

Well, he's, well, he's pulling up maybe.

Hold on. We'll put it in.

Thank you. And we'll put it in the newsletter, right?

So we'll do it.

If you send it to me, I'll help you.

I'll do the article, OK?

And then we'll do the article about essentially how you can get

your PDK transmissions fixed and you don't just have to basically

buy a new one from Portia.

Just give me the guy's information.

I'll do the rest of the homework for you.

But, you know, so when Magnus bought this one,

it had just had the PDK transmission replaced by Portia.

And he paid at the time 23 grand.

And now, like Dave said, Magnus has rolled over 200,000 miles.

When he came to my shop, he went for a test drive with a buddy of mine.

And he came back with the most underwhelmed look

because it's not it's just fast.

It's literally like a blender.

You just press the button and you hit frappe and it goes.

And it's and it does everything so well, but it's kind of numbing.

And I just I told him he wouldn't like it.

And he said, I'll think about it.

And the next day he called back and I'm fully expecting him to say,

you're right, I don't like it.

He goes, I'll take it.

And I remember going, are you sure?

And he's like, yeah, I go, OK.

And he bought it.

And right after that, he went to Moab on a trip, which he then went back to do.

And he got, I think, two or three speeding tickets

driving to Moab for a Jeep event.

And he fell in love with the car because he finally he drove it

in the exact scenario that car was meant to be driven,

which was gobble up miles on the interstate in a comfortable way

with his dog in the back.

Well, I mean, is there a day of the case he contributed

if you guys have anything else, because we got a lot of listener

questions that we're going to get to, because I'm honestly, I'm kind of sold

on that the idea of buying not buying a new turbo and suffering the depreciation,

frankly, because I don't think they're the user experience from that car,

that especially one that he's showing this beautiful oak green 991.1 turbo.

We don't know if it's an S or not.

It is turbo S.

It's so gorgeous.

I don't know if I saw that car sitting next to a, you know, that car.

It's $200,000 less than the new one.

I'm going with that one.

Hundred percent.

And guess what, Tim?

You could buy that and you can have a 77 ice cream metallic

that's kind of an older restoration for 150.

And like talk about, I mean, imagine opening your garage door going,

I'm going to just go cruise one to cruise around the island

or I'm going to go set a lap record around the island.

So who's the who's the who's the buyer, Casey, for the new turbo S?

Like when those guys would walk into the the Porsche shop that you ran,

well, who is that guy?

Is it none of us?

It it waivers.

I mean, basically somebody that wants the fastest, most expensive thing

that they build, and there's a lot of people that I mean,

I one of my guy that I take care of his cars, he just ordered one.

I signed off on the build the other day.

I didn't look at how much it was

because I just made sure it didn't have anything bad on it.

But he just ordered that in a brand new GT three

with a CXX interior that costs probably almost as much as the car behind Paul.

What? So it's just it's just it is.

And it's all relative, you know, it's it's it doesn't.

There's a lot of people that just have everything.

And this is this is one of those things out of curiosity was the purchase

of the GT three with the fancy interior predicated on the purchase of the turbo.

Were those combined? No, the guy just wanted them both.

All right, cool.

And it's just the guy who I sold this car for

after I sold the reason I sold this car is he had ordered the next turbo s,

which I then which was a nine nine one point two, which I then sold

because he ordered a nine nine two.

He's a CEO of a company and he commutes 50 miles each way to work.

And for him, this is his enjoyment.

This is a little capsule for fun.

He's like, I think he doesn't want to drive a work truck.

He doesn't want to drive a big SUV.

For him, just commuting in this missile was awesome.

And that was his jam.

And he had the money and he just keeps rotating.

You know, the nine nine one point two turbo s, he had it for four years

and had over 100,000 miles on that one.

And he got awesome.

Franking through them, which I love the door.

Dave, let me let me let me plug the I found the information that the J

at speed density motorsports in Lewisburg, Tennessee,

is a amazing PDK expert.

So if you've got any issues, Dave,

Fros, while he's any issues with your internet service,

called Dave, my biggest question is, and Casey, maybe you know this,

is this plague or like the nine nine seven point two and the nine nine

one point one PDKs and is it did they resolve it?

Dave, you froze up there.

We're just wondering, is there the nine nine one point two,

whatever's going wrong with these early PDKs, did they solve it by the nine

and one point two, or are they just not old enough yet to be plagued?

I mean, I've not heard of a whole lot of failure rate, to be honest with you.

I don't I don't I know that it exists.

I'm I know that I had a old client with a nine nine seven second gen GTS

that had a PDK fault and it was very expensive to fix.

But that was five or six years ago in a track car.

So I'm not sure how the application of

of, you know, how it was being used.

And I mean, at that point, it's effectively a consumable.

I think it's the sensors that are failing in these.

I think they will all ultimately fail at some point.

And I think for another issue of this that we discussed previously,

that there's going to be a secondary market that pops up to fix these

because Porsche is not making or not making available the sensor pack

that shows the position of the PDK.

And I have to dig in deeper.

I had I had more knowledge on this.

It's not a crash here in my old brain.

But to repeat what I was saying, the guy is in Lewisburg, Tennessee.

It's called speed density motorsports.

And if you go to his even his Facebook page, you can see Jay.

He's very knowledgeable.

I've spoken to him on the phone.

He's done some repairs for us and he does them very inexpensively.

So if you've got a PDK with an issue, he's a guy to call.

What's what's inexpensive?

I know that the replacement that Porsche wants to do

is about 25 grand parts in labor for a new transmission.

I think this is under under five thousand dollars.

Wow, because out here in Southern California, I had a 991.1 C4S

we recently sold and he had the same problem.

And there was a shop in Orange County that did it, but it took two months.

And I want to say that was like 11 or 12 grand.

And I don't know if that's because there's something more

or it's just Southern California prices or what?

But good to mark up not dealing with this guy directly, right?

If you're dealing with him, you drive the trans, you ship it off to him.

He changes out the sensor parts.

Yep. Yeah, that's kind of where he's at.

And again, take a look at his website or Facebook page.

And you'll see because he's got great videos up there about what he does,

how he does it.

You can see these transmissions blown apart on his Facebook page

and showing you exactly the sensors that are getting replaced.

He does a really good job.

So I and we've had one done with him.

So I recommend it.

Guys, let's move on to listener questions.

And actually, Dave, the car you have in your background,

I'm going to tee up for the question that we got.

I think the gentleman's name was Ricky in Instagram.

Can you one of you guys pull that up?

I shared it with you on WhatsApp yesterday.

And I just the one that that hang on a minute.

I got to get that here or somebody get it.

Yeah, so let's see.

So, yeah, Ricky Kaczynski on Instagram said to you guys

that you have a great show.

True car guy years old.

Been into my been into cars my entire life.

My muscle car was my 39th.

My last muscle car was my 39th.

Had a brand new 427 Creighton and after six miles spun a bearing

and said, I'm done.

Got into Porsches, bought a 17 turbo really looking for an air cool car now

just because I can't get away from the old stuff.

But I don't want to go back to American muscle cars.

I picked up more information on these cars by listening to you guys

from anywhere else.

I really appreciate that.

Only problem is all my knowledge is about American cars.

I am a true hot rodder at heart.

I don't like a whole lot of stock things.

If I could ask a quick question, I'd love to get your opinion on back day cars.

How do you guys view these?

I just never want to look like a douche that just got into these 9-11s

and make a huge mistake.

Love the Sunderwurx 78 SC in your background, Dave.

Love the podcast all the best.

Hold on.

Who on this podcast looks like a douche?

Because he has a back dated 9-11.

I don't remember who that would be me.

I would I gladly wave that flag.

Well, let's let's dive deep into that question because it's a question

a lot of people have.

So if I buy it, I'll just cut to it.

So if I buy a G body, Dave, this is on this is yours, right?

And I want to back date it.

And I want to know, you know, the whole thing.

I want to just make it look like a long hood.

I want it to blah, blah, blah, blah.

What am I into that thing for?

Let's without the purchase price of the car in consideration, what will cost me?

Let's see, so many little side questions there, depending on motor,

depending on interior, depending on what level of back date, you know,

if we're really looking to go toward like what Albert is there, Tim,

with the, you know, wide body 73 RSR style.

Well, Albert is 72, though.

Albert's not.

It is, but it's a 73 RSR style car that it is a 72.

I realize I'd say you're going to start at about 350 to four is where

you'll start to get something done like that.

Yeah, there's Albert, but it's just going to depend.

You could do it for absolutely a hundred thousand dollars less if you just

depending on the choices you're going to make along the way.

And these are not including the price of the original car.

So original G body, this car right here that I'm showing, which isn't really

a back date per se, it's kind of a roof style look that we did on this car,

which is a combination, you know, with the roof front and rear bumper,

but then nine 64 side skirts on it.

This was, I mean, a very personal taste kind of build.

And the client wanted this and I think it's stunning.

It's an amazing car and it's for sale.

It's a McGuire show car.

I mean, that was literally a McGuire show car at 11 and that car was

on display the whole time and I was hanging out by it talking to your,

some of your staff guys and people freaking love that car because it was

so cool and unique.

Yeah, the interior on this car really sets it apart as well.

It's really an amazing car.

Well, but I think getting back to the original question of what kid,

what are you going to spend?

I mean, you can spend 50 to a hundred thousand dollars just on the air

cooled motor to build a four liter, depending on who you're doing it with,

right? Some of the bigger name shops, you know, the high dollar,

well known, you know, the Williams of the world and people like that.

You can spend easily a hundred thousand dollars just on the motor,

but there's different levels depending on what you're trying to do.

You can have a ton of fun taking a three, two to a three, four,

building a G body into a back date as 70.

Well, let me ask the question seven.

So if you're after, if you're after that back date look and you guys can chime

in on this as well, because this is where I was kind of going.

If you didn't see the rest of the WhatsApp that I went back and forth

with Ricky a little bit about, but I personally would just buy a early 70s

longhood. I heard you're right.

Because the values of those cars are undervalued in my opinion.

Of course, a gorgeous car, a silver, a seventy three nine eleven S without

the ugly brown or black overwriters on the bumpers that just sold at

meekum of all places for 200 grand, which I thought was, you know,

considering that car would cost easily 150 to restore.

Right. That's a really good value.

I mean, but people don't understand about the back date is, you know,

early on we wanted a hot rod, nine elevens, nine elevens were cheap.

So you just take, in fact, what we used to hot rod were mostly sixty nine

through seventy one ease because the suspension would fail and they would

just get parks.

He get this really nice car with an unused motor and you're going to put

some killer suspension.

So I would see ease and even S is all the way up to like 2002 or 2003

getting turned into RS clones.

And then those prices got so expensive that the donor car was fifty grand

that you weren't going to do that.

And it sacrilegious.

OK, maybe, but it was really about it was a money game.

So then I'll, but at the same time, SCs and Carreras were 15 grand.

So great.

It's super easy.

You know, they've already got the flares on the back.

You just change the bumper.

You put early fenders on the front.

You got a little bit of work to do to the front.

You do kind of permanently change the car on the front end.

And that's why people were doing it.

But then and also I think with Singer coming about, it almost gave the OK to do it.

Yes, my green car I do rallies with is an 86 back date.

I didn't want a back date.

I just wanted an 86 that was I could just go beat the tar out of.

It just happened to be the car that ran that fell into my lap.

I prefer what Dave did.

And I think nowadays the the back dating is not a viable option

because the SCs and Carreras that you want to back date are so expensive.

What I would rather see is something like Dave did, which is OK,

you do the bumpers, you do something cool.

The interior, if there is a time where that car is worth half a million dollars,

you go put it back to stock.

You're not re welding stuff.

You're not changing body panels.

I agree. So I just think it end to your point, Tim,

the prices of long hoods of like just driver long hoods that you can hot rod

have gotten cheap enough that why not just go take a long hood and go put flares on it

and hire someone like Dave to make it cool.

And you get a car that's right off the gate, three to four hundred pounds lighter.

What do you think, Casey? Is this your is this your jam?

So I don't want to advertise for myself, but I'm working through a car right now.

TPC racing is doing the sorting for me.

It's a eighty seven coupe.

That's black.

The gentleman sent it to a shop.

They put on kind of Iraq-ish front and rear bumpers,

which takes it to look back similar to what Dave did with the roof bumpers on his car.

Pulled the interior out, put in some, if I'm not mistaken,

Cobra or Sparko seats got rid of the the rear seats.

Did some trim work on the car and made it pretty straightforward.

At the end of the day, it's an eighty seven coupe with

with a little bit more of a rowdy exhaust on it with great leak down, great compression.

And I expect a car like that to sell in the.

Ninety ish range, something like that.

It's got 50,000 ish miles.

So what's really really it's black black.

But it's got some it's got some red red trim on it.

But so you really have to ask yourself,

how deep do you want to go and how crazy do you want the back date to be?

Because Paul's car, I never knew it was an eighty six.

I always thought it was significantly older than that.

But you could do something like what Paul has,

or you could do something like what Dave has, or you could do something like what I'm proposing,

which is just it's a three point two liter Carrera,

which is a very reliable car.

You do this, I think it's got like a Steve Wong chip in it

and a little bit of a rowdy exhaust that has like the dual outlet out the back.

But something like that is obtainable, easy to diagnose if there's issues.

The car I think has like KW suspension or something like that on it.

But it does look older because it does have it gets rid of the accordion style bumpers.

But it at the same time, it's it's more approachable.

So you have to ask yourself, how crazy do you want to go?

And I think honestly, any of the three options between what Paul owns,

what I saw Dave's car in person is insane.

Like the attention to detail was was great, even with my watered down old fashioned.

So Ricky, Ricky, look up, give Dave a call

and ask him about the brown card that's still for sale.

I mean, that's the answer.

It is still for sale.

Yeah.

And just in talking, yeah, go ahead.

Go ahead, Jim.

Oh, I was going to say and talk to Dave about what all the actual costs would be.

But I'll suggest to you that if you're just wanting to experience an air cooled 9-11,

I mean, any of these options, but just understand that probably before you make any decision,

you should go out and drive a 996 GT3 first because the 996 GT3 will deliver.

I mean, shocking amount of the same experiences that the older cars will.

And I'll suggest that's going to be something that you might really be happy with,

especially considering your hot rotting background.

All right, guys, let's go on to the next question.

I'm consigning my car to a local dealer.

I pulled this for you guys complaining in WhatsApp.

What should be in the agreement?

Well, in California, you know, as a first of all,

if you're consigning a car to someone in California,

they need to be a licensed bonded insured dealer.

And it's pretty easy.

You ask for their dealer number.

The the the the websites public, you can just go in there and search

and it'll show if they're in good standing with the DMV.

Do they have a current license?

Are they an actual licensed person?

The other thing in California, they require you in writing.

It should be an agreement that that once the car is sold,

they have to pay you within 20 days.

Now, we pay people within 24 hours of having the funds cleared

and we hold the and we hold the car until the funds have cleared.

The other thing is, no matter what they say, and if it's in the paperwork,

that they have to have the title.

That's not true.

And what you should do is hang on to the title until the vehicle is actually sold.

They can have wording in there that says within 24 hours of the vehicle being sold.

We require you to surrender the title and that you'll be repaid at paid at the same time.

And we have some clients that will walk in our office, give us the title.

They pick up a check.

Others just send us the title.

So I would say the droves and droves of stories from going back

from the beginning of time of not following that advice and giving the cars,

giving the titles and the cars being, you know, all of that.

You know, yeah, exactly.

A lot of that happen.

You guys anything have anything to add to that or you want to get to next question?

I'll suggest just make sure that all the percentages and recon costs

are discussed up front and then writing.

That's a really good point.

I'll suggest that you go to chat GPT, frankly, and you ask what the, you know,

essentially do your research there for your particular state,

because these guys are alluding to each state.

It's going to be slightly different.

I would I'm sure that's probably good advice.

All right.

So let's go.

You guys want to get to segment six today?

You want to hold that off for next week?

I think is well, no, I want to do segment six.

I think the seven conversations should be the one that we start with the next time.

All right, let me write that down.

I agree.

And it was a great question because right now I don't know about you, Dave or Casey,

but I would say we are right now in the precipice of 997.1 versus do I buy a 997.2?

I'll tell him what the question is so I can get him geeked up about it.

So what what about a 997.1 versus 997.2?

It's a big topic.

Unfortunately, we have the world's expert on 997s, Mr.

Casey, Dave, Dave.

Oh, no, no, I believe PCA crowned you the official guy.

The topic was suggested by a listener, especially since.

All right, so we'll talk about that next week.

All right.

Are you guys ready for another segment?

Yes.

Oh man, we are really locked in.

No one would ever guess our combined age is like 400 years.

All right.

Segment six, this or that, it just goes to show how much car nerdy we truly are

that we can actually sit and talk about the scrap for two hours.

Segment six.

Oh, newsletter pitch.

Sorry, definitely subscribe to the newsletter.

Go to fullthrottletalk.com or click the link below and Dave will personally

send you his lovely bride will personally send you a full throttle talk sticker.

So make sure you are subscribing to the newsletter.

And yes, that's where we're going to stay connected with all of you.

And then if you're already a subscriber, do participate in the Facebook group.

I promised you all three of us, all four of us will do a lot better job of that.

All right.

So this or that.

And I said, what were the rules for this or that?

OK, here it goes.

It's just a one.

It's just a this.

Yeah.

No, yeah, you're right.

You're right.

Thank you.

Yeah, he's right.

So Paul brought up five.

No, I picked two.

Well, no, but this or that isn't like we have to choose which would be like see what each person.

No, no, no, Dave was right.

The theme was unlimited budget with limited garage space, one car, no limit on price,

nothing older than twenty twenty one.

OK, well, unless you guys want to be here all day, which I'm all down for.

No, I wanted to do both because I thought we were going to compare like who just see

who would choose what.

But that's how about we how about we propose what we propose?

Yeah, Paul Kramer rules.

How about we propose what our choice was and then at the end, we vote.

OK, who wins and you can't vote for yourself.

That's fair enough.

I think I think the math works.

All right, Dave, you go first.

Well, OK, I probably shouldn't have better going second, but it doesn't matter.

It's all good.

This was the unlimited budget.

I took this particular singer DL, excuse me, the DLR, DLS, excuse me,

build that was available.

This was a this sold for north of two million dollars.

And I took it because Paul was going with the roof.

Having said that, I love the color.

This appears to be Albert Blue, same as Tim's car.

It's just absolutely stunning in every way.

That was one of those you don't really need to have a I'm not worried

about the outcome or the value long term.

Let's look at the stuff here.

I mean, that's a Williams built motor.

That is just a piece of art right there.

I mean, it is absolute.

Sorry, my hand is not there we go.

That's just a gorgeous piece right there.

I mean, as a performance vehicle, what singer has done with this particular 911.

The interior has a few few too many grommets for me in the seats.

But beyond that, it's a stunning interior.

These cars are just engineered at an amazing level.

It's a gorgeous, gorgeous car.

And if I had just two million dollars burning a hole in my pocket,

this would be my particular choice.

All right, boys, ever so obvious that you guys are used car salesman

with the exception of Casey, he's the connoisseur.

All right.

So Casey, you get to go next connoisseur evidence by his choice of cars,

which I've seen in real life twice.

I've had I'm going to give you two options.

Number one, because Paul is to car number one is a Tudhill 911 K.

I don't believe there is anything cooler in rest of mod 911 than that.

It is it a is it a twenty twenty one or later?

No, but neither is Dave.

So there you have it.

If I did have if I did have to pick a car that's twenty twenty one and later,

it would be that new Gordon Murray F1 thing that they made at that came out

at a car week. I think that's about as cool as it gets.

I have a client with a T 33 inbound.

So I'm very excited to experience that.

But I don't think there is a better looking car than that that new Gordon Murray thing.

And I believe one of those just resold for five or six million dollars.

No, not that one.

No, they made five of those.

I didn't one guy want one of them.

So one guy ordered, I think, all of them.

And they are auctioning one at, I think, the ability

to auctioning the car off at the RM Sotheby's event

at the F1 race in Las Vegas.

So I do believe that that's coming up soon.

And I think that'll go.

I mean, I think that'll go for more than five million, because, for instance,

the car is twenty million dollars.

If you were to that's not what the guy's paying per car or 15 million.

So it's going to be a lot more than that.

You think it'll be the most expensive new car to be auctioned?

I would say a million dollar car.

I mean, I don't I don't I mean, it's the it's the evolution of a McLaren F1,

which is is about as good as a car gets.

I mean, what do you guys think the value will be after 3035?

I think over 40.

Well, so you got to know the history on that one in particular.

So the the guy who commissioned it, he essentially had a hand in on designing

it when Gordon Murray was laid up in the hospital, you know,

mending from a disease which he's done well with.

That's supposedly when he has sketched all that.

So we originally in that car, if I don't want to be critical of somebody

else's artwork, but if you look at that car compared to, say, for example,

the the T 50 or the T 30, I don't see why he didn't just didn't just

start with what Casey's got behind him because it is so gorgeous,

especially from the back end.

I mean, look at that car.

I mean, the wrap.

The I mean, the back end is the big win because this is the back end of the T

50, which looks like it should be plugged into a USB port.

Just like my French Bulldog is what it reminds me of when I see that.

But have you got have any of you guys seen these cars minus the one

that Casey's got?

Have you guys seen those guys for a life?

I did.

And then this was actually great because I saw coming up to Newcombe's

Ranch, the T 50 driven by Indie driver, there are your friend, Katie,

our friend, Katie, and the same day, a 9 11 K.

And so here you have two 11,000 RPM cars parked next to each other.

And as cool as it was and everyone raved about it, the the Casey's right,

even though it's not technically a 21, the the total cars just cool in the

most understated way possible.

Very Casey car for sure.

Casey, if you've seen one of those cars, 9 11 K IRL.

So it is literally what is astonishing is you don't realize it's truly

all carbon fiber, even the freaking wheels.

And it's not and they don't put it in your face.

You have to get real close and start touching and poking around.

And then it's unbelievably impressive.

I saw it in and out burger and it's seriously just sitting there.

Was it car week two years ago?

Car week.

Yeah, yeah.

So it was so that was the car that came to our shop and and it pulls in and

my dad looks out to because this is a very my dad thing.

He sees it pulls in.

He's like, the guy's hood's open.

You know, the typical long hood, hood doesn't stay shut because they were

sorting it out and my dad's sort of like, what's the deal with that car?

I go, how much do you think that car is dad?

And he goes, I don't know, a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand.

I go, that's a that's a seven figure car.

He's like, what?

And when I walked him, you know what they were selling this for, Paul?

Do you know what act?

Because Julie and I sat and I talked to one point.

Nope, a million.

Do one point dollars a million dollars.

He was making.

He was making a million dollars a million dollars, but I take that over a

singer like it was so cool was like, so when I took my dad to the car and I go,

look at the Fuchs wheel, it looks like an R.S.R.

finished wheel.

But when you look past the R.S.R.

finished just to inside the spoke, I go, what is that?

He goes, it's carbon fiber.

I go, that whole wheel is carbon fiber.

The body's carbon fiber.

I start pointing out all these tiny details, but it, which is what I love.

It was like Easter eggs of just getting him like crescendo excited.

And he's like, holy cow.

At the very end, he goes, but the hood was still open.

I love your dad.

That's true.

And I Casey, I got your point though.

That it would be an interesting conundrum.

I don't know what those, you know, let's say the base price on Dave's car.

I don't know what those originally cost.

I think they're like 1.8 or something, or they're 2 million right after.

So yeah, I don't know, given the choice between buying.

So the guy who commissioned that car that Casey chose, the family owns the quail.

We went to a party after, we went to a party afterwards at the guy's mansion,

which was one of the most spectacular houses I've ever seen before Rob was there.

That car showed up a whole bunch of other cars.

One of the coolest eclectic collections you would have loved at Casey.

I mean, they had steam cars and shit next sitting next to that thing was

unbelievable. All right.

Yeah. So I'm just out of curiosity.

This isn't supposed to be this or that, but since Casey put both of them up,

I already voiced what would you guys choose between the the two?

The, oh, the total.

I mean, yes, the other one's going to be 40 million dollars, but take cash out of

the picture, which I always do the total for sure.

Me too.

How about you, Dave?

I'm definitely I'm just not.

I don't like the look of the super exotic kind of cars.

I just just isn't my jam.

I like something that looks like more of a row going real car.

I don't know. I mean, I don't have the Gordon Murray, the special one.

My only problem with that, if you want to put that picture back up there, Casey,

is the wing. I just like take that wing out.

Like, like look at look at the T 50 and look at how how

it looks. It's just a prettier shape in general

because of the no wing.

That is the only thing I don't like about that, that that limited edition one.

Illusional.

So the thing that you will be shocked about when you see one of these

in real life is how small they are.

That's what's really I find massively appealing is just how small they are.

And I hope manufacturers are actually paying attention to true enthusiasts.

This one, which are smaller cars that are not, you know, whales.

All right. So Paul, I believe those are excellent choices, Casey.

Yep. Good choices.

All right. So let's see.

Dave's already gone and he actually followed the rules.

What can one of you guys pull up my my picture?

If you hold on, I don't know if I.

So this is one car, unlimited budget, limited space, just so everyone knows

that at least Dave and I fold.

We try.

I think this one came up later.

The Ferrari Daytona SP3.

I just don't have a way to grab a picture of it.

Oh, I'm I'm I'm doing it.

Hing tight.

It'll be.

Tim, you got to get on your game here, Tim.

If you're going to, if you're going to be putting these images up,

you got to get on your game.

Yeah.

Honestly, I was honestly so busy yesterday because I had to program

this stupid camera and Julie's camera, and then we had to do four hours of

podcasts for our business and I was just, I, you're right though.

So that is, that is the SP3 and that would be my, that would absolutely

be the one car I would choose for a whole bunch of reasons and mostly

because it's just absolutely breathtakingly gorgeous.

I've seen these, you know, all over the place.

The last time I saw one in real life, this is ridiculous, but it's true.

We are in Monaco.

We are walking down, I just saying out loud being a poor kid from Ohio sounds

ridiculous, but we were in Monaco and a dude had bought a matte black SP3 and

his yacht was not all matte black, but was half matte black.

So the yacht was there to basically match the car and back and forth a little

bit ridiculous, but that's the one I would choose because first of all, it's

just breathtakingly gorgeous.

I like how it plays an homage to older Ferraris and truthfully that car is going

to be something that'll always be desirable.

They didn't make a whole lot of them.

Um, and, uh, yeah.

And a Ferrari dealership can work on it.

It's basically an 812 underneath, by the way.

So it's front engine.

It's mid engine.

Mid engine.

Oh, no, no, no, no shit.

Well, eight, 12, eight, 12 front engine.

I was going to ask you what it's based on because it's a cool looking car.

I mean, here's the only visual, it is cool looking.

The only visual thing I first thing I saw was between that splitter and the rocker.

See the side rocker flare out, it looks like something that was 3D printed and

they didn't peel the rest of the, the mold off.

Like when you get it out of a 3D printer or like a model kit and there's a

little plastic shrapnel that's still attached to it and they haven't like pulled

it out of the mold completely.

And I'm sorry, I know I like to shit on Ferraris.

It is very pretty, but that is the first thing I saw is like, why is there this

black ring around the bottom?

I know it's functional and it's Ferrari and ZR one and all that.

Wow.

Tim, what is this picture behind you right now?

What are we looking at there?

Oh, that is a caming.

Is you eyeballing a spider here?

Looks like that's cam at Camingram's place during a Looft 11.

That is, I guess, the only original 550, like completely original.

I don't, I heard, I've heard him on a podcast talk about the story about them

finding, I think it was somewhere in Europe and that, that was it.

And I have to say I've seen a ton of restored 550s.

I mean, everyone I've ever seen is restored, but picking over that one at

Cam's place and seeing all the little crazy details was so much fun.

They, I don't want to bore you guys, but you know, that's what that is.

So it's a 550.

Uh, so what would that be a 547 type one motor?

The, have you guys ever been to Ingram's place before and North Carolina?

You have, you know, yeah, it's not very big, but everything is so in every corner,

every time you go around and look in a different room, it's like intense

because you're seeing so much amazing stuff.

Like it's in the engine build room.

We're the guy that was there, wasn't the actual builder.

And, uh, I asked, well, how do you know?

And the, the four camps in the outside all kind of look the same.

By 47 looks like the six 93 looks like the other.

And then I asked the guy again, he wasn't the builder.

So how do you know by looking at it aesthetically, this one to that one, I kind

of knew, and he didn't know, and Julie looked at the motor and there's

actually a little number on it.

It actually said 547 dash one, like, duh, just read with the, you know,

of course the Porsche, it's going to have a number on it.

Right.

Yeah.

So the Julie, leave the Julie.

Exactly.

All right, Paul, your turn.

All right.

So, um, this is a car that I remember when they launched it.

It's a 2021, uh, roof CTR anniversary twin turbo.

They made 50 of these.

You had to be invited to buy it.

I think everyone who was invited bought one, not because they were just roof

customers and it was all about the speculation.

It was just a very special thing.

Carbon Kevlar body twin turbo engine.

Um, this one was done in, uh, Riviera blue and it had, uh, you'll love this.

Um, Casey, I was thinking of you lollipop, uh, seats, uh, which I know

Casey does not care for, but, but I think these are probably a little more

comfortable, um, and beautiful engine.

It kind of reminds me a little more of the singer.

I would say a little more purposeful, 2600 pounds, uh, dry, 710 horsepower,

649 pound feet of torque, uh, under zero, under 3.5 seconds, zero to 60.

This one was sold at Monterey this year, RM for 3.36 million dollars.

Um, and going back to what we talked about, kind of like Tuttle, I think roof

does the same thing.

It's just one price.

I don't know what these were when they were offered in 2020, but I think

they were like one 1.3 million.

Maybe they're a little more than the normally aspirated cars.

Um, so that is one car, the, the roof CTR.

And the other one is, you know, you know, the T 50, which ultimately the

T 33 is a better looking car.

This one will be very interesting because this is going to be the first

T 50 coming up for sale in a very public auction format.

Um, it's going to be an Abu Dhabi coming up at our, I think it's RM, RM Sotheby's.

Um, they're, they're valuing it at excess of 5 million.

Um, I don't know what are these new KC.

If you were one of the few that got to order them, were they $3 million new?

I don't, I'm two million T 33s, I think are like one, one, seven, one, eight.

I'm not sure about a T 50.

Um, compared to the roof CTR, I mean the interior to me, yes, center seat.

To me, that's just, maybe it's the orange.

It's just a little too McLaren for me.

It's, I would say the two things I don't like are the interior finishes.

And of course the controversial rear end, um, looks a bit odd, but the front

end and look at that motor, um, and that motor, I think is really what the motor

in the front end, the front end looks like the F one McLaren and the motor is

so Gordon Murray from a dynamic standpoint, you know, as if you haven't

watched it, uh, Henry catch pull does a great video comparing the F one and the

T 50.

Um, but all right.

So what would you guys choose?

Okay, no, we're going to do it right.

So we're going to vote.

So just so I got these right.

My choice was the Ferrari SP three and you guys were both proposing two

cars, but let, and if I got the wrong one, tell me, uh, Casey said the

title, nine 11 K.

Okay.

Uh, Paul saying that, uh, roof CTR and Dave is saying the singer D as a

designed DSL or DLS or whatever the hell it is, DLS.

Okay.

All right.

So those are the, those are your guys's four choices.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

So let's, let's all vote right down what your vote is, which one, if you

had to choose one and you can't choose your own, can't choose your own,

can't choose your own.

Mine's easy.

I take Paul Paul.

Mine.

Well, mine, not Tim's, that was super easy.

Um, yeah, mine would be mine, but I can't pick it.

So I'll choose Casey's.

All right.

So we have one for the title.

Casey, what's your vote?

Paul's you guys are going to screw up my game.

Aren't you?

Okay.

Go ahead, Paul.

I choose total Casey's.

Oh, did we already do that one?

I already asked you, Dave, Dave, you're next.

I'm sticking, I'm taking Paul's CTR.

Yeah.

So am I.

So I think Paul wins.

Yep.

Paul wins.

Yeah.

I would a hundred percent.

I definitely would.

And it's hard to be this humble when you're this right, but I mean that, that

car is just so special.

It's just so exceptional.

The family's so amazing.

The experience is so amazing.

And that's a true one off car.

It's not a rest-o-moder, a back-dater, a 964.

They got Frankenstein.

That's a really, truly incredible car.

You know, yeah, I, that's what my choice would be.

And so those things are what?

Three to four million.

Uh, this one says, um, hold on.

It's, it's sold for, it's sold.

This one only had 200 miles and it was number 25 of 50.

So it was barely used, which I think sadly most of them are.

And it's sold for 3.36 in Monterey at RM.

And that was including fees.

So three, three, I would guess three million plus is where it's going to

cost you to get one.

Let's do a show.

Let's do a segment next week.

If it's okay with you guys, where we'd actually talk about our favorite roofs.

What do you think?

Yes.

Sure, we can do that.

Casey, that guy.

So we can do a roof show and Alpina show, like just those two.

That would be a show.

We're just going to keep our asses in the 1980s forever.

Nothing's going to change.

It's not going to mean so listen, that was full throttle talk this week.

Guys, thank you for staying tuned.

Remember to subscribe to the newsletter.

That's where the party continues.

Just go to fullthrottletalk.com or click the link below.

And when you do, Dave is going to send you a full throttle talk sticker.

And you can put it on the windshield as all of us hopefully have been doing.

In the meantime, we love your feedback.

Sorry, we didn't get to all your questions.

We have a lot more questions that we'll get to on the next show.

And yes, submit your questions by direct messaging us over on Instagram

at fullthrottletalk.

In the meantime, God bless you guys.

Have a great week.

Thanks, guys.

See you.

V12 Regrets, 911 Turbo Value Hunt & Listener Roast – Full Throttle Talk #39

Porsche 912

Troy Indy Special

Aston Vantage V12

About this episode

Original notes