We Almost Rolled the INEOS Wagon
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Car
Tesla Model X
Concept
Cars and Coffee
Cars and Coffee is a fun event where people bring their cars to show off and chat with other car lovers while drinking coffee. You can see many different types of cars there.
Car
Ford Gt
The Ford GT is a fast sports car made by Ford. It's famous for its cool looks and speed, and it was inspired by a classic race car from the 1960s.
Car
Porsche Spider
The Porsche Spider is a type of sports car made by Porsche that is designed to be very light and fast. It usually has a convertible top, which means you can drive it with the roof down, making it a fun car for driving enthusiasts.
Car
Ineos Grenadier
The Ineos Grenadier is a new type of tough, off-road vehicle made for people who love adventure. It's built to be strong and can handle rough roads and trails.
Car
Ineos Quartermaster
The Ineos Quartermaster is a pickup truck version of the Grenadier, built for tough use and off-road driving.
Term
off-roading vehicle
An off-roading vehicle is built to drive on bumpy and rough surfaces, like dirt or rocks. They usually have special features to help them handle tough conditions.
Term
body-on-frame
Body-on-frame means the main part of the car (the body) is built on a strong frame underneath. This makes it tough and good for off-roading, like in trucks and some SUVs.
Term
solid axles
Solid axles are strong parts that connect the wheels on a vehicle. They help the car handle rough terrain better, making them great for off-roading.
Term
recirculating ball steering
Recirculating ball steering is a way to help turn the wheels of a car. It uses small balls to make it easier to steer, and it's usually found in older cars and trucks.
Car
Jeep Wrangler
Car
Ford Bronco
Term
rack and pinion steering
Rack and pinion steering is a system that helps you steer your car. When you turn the steering wheel, it moves a gear that pushes a rod, which then turns the wheels of the car. This makes it easier to control where you want to go.
Car
Chevrolet Camaro
The Chevrolet Camaro is a fast car that many people love for its sporty feel. It has different settings that make it drive better in certain situations.
Term
sports car
Sports cars are fast and designed to handle well on the road. They usually have a sleek look and are fun to drive.
Car
Mini Cooper
The Mini Cooper is a small car that's fun to drive and easy to park. It's known for its unique style and sporty feel.
Term
lock-to-lock
Lock-to-lock is how many times you can turn the steering wheel from one side to the other. More turns mean you have to turn the wheel more to steer the car.
Term
alignment
Alignment is how the wheels are set up on a car. If they're not lined up correctly, it can cause problems like uneven tire wear or difficulty steering.
Term
wheels and tires
Wheels are the round parts that help the car move, and tires are the rubber coverings that go around them. They are important for how well a car drives and handles the road.
Term
self-centering
Self-centering is when the steering wheel automatically moves back to the middle after you turn it. This helps the car go straight again after you finish turning.
Car
Ford Escape
Car
Ford Bronco Sport
The Ford Bronco Sport is a small SUV that can handle rough roads and off-road conditions. It's built for people who like to explore outdoors and need a vehicle that can go on different types of terrain.
Car
Subaru Outback
The Subaru Outback is a type of car that looks like a mix between a wagon and an SUV. It's great for driving in different weather and on rough roads, making it popular for outdoor activities.
Car
Porsche Macan
The Porsche Macan is a small luxury SUV that combines sporty driving with comfort. It's designed to be fun to drive while also being practical for everyday use.
Term
low-range
Low-range is a special setting in some four-wheel-drive vehicles that helps them drive better in tough conditions, like steep hills or rocky paths. It gives the car more power to handle difficult situations.
Term
skid plates
Skid plates are tough metal shields that protect the bottom of a vehicle. They help keep important parts safe when driving on rough ground.
Term
air down
Airing down means letting some air out of the tires. This helps the tires grip better on rough surfaces, making it easier to drive off-road.
Term
tire pressure
Tire pressure is how much air is in a tire. Keeping the right amount of air is important for safe driving and helps the tires last longer.
Term
full droop
Full droop is when a car's wheel is hanging down as far as it can go. It helps to know how the car's suspension works, especially when driving on rough terrain.
Term
full compression
Full compression means the car's wheel is pushed up as high as it can go. It's important for keeping the tires on the ground and helping the car stay stable.
Car
Ford Ranger
Part
sway bars
Sway bars are parts of a car's suspension that help keep it stable when turning. They connect the wheels on each side of the car to prevent it from leaning too much during turns.
Car
Toyota Land Cruiser
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a big SUV that's great for off-roading. It's known for being tough and reliable, making it a popular choice for adventure seekers.
Car
Porsche Cayenne
Car
Toyota 4Runner
The Toyota 4Runner is a tough SUV that can handle rough roads and off-road adventures. It's built to be strong and durable.
Car
Mercedes-Benz G-Class
The G-Class, or G-Wagon, is a fancy SUV from Mercedes-Benz that can go off-road and looks very unique.
Car
Rivian R1T
The Rivian R1T is a new electric truck that can go off-road and has four electric motors, making it very powerful and easy to control.
Car
Land Defenders
Car
Ford F150
Car
Jeep Gladiator
Car
Porsche Boxster
Car
Honda S800
Car
Mazda Miata
Car
Bugatti Veyron
Car
Volvo P1800
Car
Toyota Supra
Car
BMW M Bmws
Car
Hyundai Elantra
Car
Bmw 2
Car
BMW M3
Car
BMW E92
Car
BMW E39
Car
BMW M5
Car
Ferrari 308
Car
Ford Mustang
Car
Subaru Wrx
Car
Ford Model T
Car
Chevrolet C6
Car
Nissan Skyline
Car
Volkswagen Eos
Car
Acura NSX
Car
Mazda Rx8
Car
Porsche 911
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Toyota Corolla
Car
Tesla Model S
Car
Tesla Model Y
Car
Ford Explorer
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Volkswagen Buses
LIVE
What's up everybody welcome to the smoking tire podcast today's episode is as always brought to you by off the record
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Alright folks on this show Zach and I have had a go in the inniose
Grenadier did a little bit of off-roading and we go over that plus hair furor wants to have an Indy car race at the
National Mall in Washington and
Elon has decided to
Not make cars anymore
Canceling the Model X and S with no replacement all this and more. It's the smoking tire podcast. Let's go
Fuck was I even doing this weekend went to Manhattan Beach cars and coffee, which was good. It was so busy place was like
Over-full by it's supposed to start at 8 I get there at 735 and the place is like blown out now if I didn't
Have a little
Position of authority. Maybe I was in I get a little front rosies, you know, just just nice
They put me next to in between a singer and a Ford GT pink car. It was okay. Wow
Where do they hold that one? Is it in the parking lot? No, it's at the point of the fucking fancy sort of mall, okay?
And right at the so it's Manhattan Beach cars and coffee now technically it's in El Segundo
But it's direct across the street would be Manhattan Beach
It's on the north side of Rosecrans Avenue the south side of Rosecrans Avenue is Manhattan Beach
I'd pull the same trick. I cannot throw a stone in that glass house with this is West Side collector car storage Playa Vista
Technically, it's Culver City Playa Vista's across
This is 50 yards away
It's still why do my pants feel so tight right now
These are I you know, I'm doing I had to get new pants. It's a good thing means you're a little less fat new pants and
So I got the same
Pants Polo Ralph Lauren jeans in like different levels of like stretch. Mm-hmm. These are the fucking no stretch
Oh, yeah, these are these are hard as a rock. Yeah, I'm not sure I have how often I'm supposed to wash these
It's probably not that off. It's not they did some scientists did a test for like jeans that were worn for like months straight
And yeah, they're washed and they had the same bacteria content. Yeah, right pretty amazing. They could get smelly
I think I right how much you fart maybe I
Mean dude if you're an active person and wearing a fucking pair of jeans for five six days in a row
You sweat you're telling me like jeans if you if you're in Florida in
Anytime and it's humid. Yeah, your jeans are gonna smell much more quickly
The move I was taught was if you put your jeans in the freezer
It freezes all the bacteria gets rid of all the smells, but it's not like a wash doesn't damage the jeans, right?
Yeah washing allegedly does I mean I guess yeah, I would say I wash my jeans probably every
Three to five wares. I wash them
We'll see but these don't stretch so they're riding up on my fucking it's weird
I wear those prana pants all the time that stretch and now I'm wearing regular jeans today and the same thing
They get very very very different to the problems. We deal with oh, man
It's like it's like going barefoot, you know on you're on a beach somewhere for a vacation
You know, you don't wear real shoes for like five days
This is gonna happen when we go on the boat
Yeah, and and then you put sneakers back on and even if they're the most comfortable NB's or what you're like
Oh my god, my foot is like in this coffin. Yeah, so weird
When I go on the long road trip scouts for road and track
I wear like fucking Lulu lemon pants because it's just me sitting in a car
Why would I wear you know, but then you put on the jeans like what the fuck is this torture device that has been invented?
Yeah
Hi everybody. Thanks for thanks for joining us. It's Monday. It's our Monday
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Zach and I are dirty this morning because we spent it on the mountain with the new and improved
Ineos
grenadier and
Ineos has a boy do they have a name scheming that really takes some learning so
The Ineos is the is the manufacturer the grenadier is the model line
The grenadier is then broken down into
Station wagon, which is the SUV
That that vaguely resembles resembles I mean and vaguely a lot resembles a defender 110. Yeah, and then there's the
Quartermaster, which is the pickup truck and that thing is like long like like a Jeep gladiator
Yes, it's it's picture Jeep gladiator, but that that's the that's the one, you know, I've only ever seen one
We see I think we have many
We have a higher percentage of grenadiers on the streets of Los Angeles than most other places in the country. Yeah, I agree
Ryan from Ineos I had lunch with before I got this thing. He said Texas is the biggest market, which doesn't surprise me
This is a real
fucking
Outside of Dallas kind of car sure and especially if you have a dirt road to your house
It helps justify having an off-roading vehicle and like it's more it's more of a truck state
You know we're area than Los Angeles is yeah, so and this thing is trucky. This is of this is the
Possibly the truckiest feeling SUV, you know on the market today
It's it's ladder frame, you know, it's a body-on-frame thing solid axles old school
And it's it's a it's a square. It's a it's fucking boxy and it has recirculating ball steering
Which I thought had completely gone the way of the dodo in passenger vehicles, but I'm bringing it back
Does the Wrangler not still use it? I don't think so. I think the Wrangler finally got I think the Wrangler finally got it
Didn't it or no?
The Bronco has rack and pinion the Bronco having rack and pinion
Eliminates in my opinion any valid argument for having recirculating ball steering basically if you don't know what I'm talking about
rack and pinion steering
Makes SUVs steer more like cars. It's a it's a bit of a sharper turning ratio
More like a car has than a truck has
Whereas the the grenadier has recirculating ball steering, which means a lot of turns lock-to-lock and a lot of
sort of dead big dead zone in the center followed by a
Fairly abrupt movement once you try to once you notch it one way or the other
You know I mean yeah, you described it in better words than that earlier
Well the off-center it was very light for about an inch and then as soon as you got to the point of friction
It felt like you know Camaro's in sport mode. The weight was was a more of a shelf than a ramp
Yeah, the Wrangler does still use a ball steering, which is why I totally forgot this the Bronco one of the big deals
Is that it has rack and pinion so that's part of why it's a little easier to drive on a while since I drove a Wrangler
Sorry, but
Now that I would think about it
I remember when we drove all the Broncos were like yes, this is better because it steers better. Yes, here's yeah
Yeah, yeah, okay, so so then if you're familiar with Wrangler, then this I guess will be kind of like that
but I think
something about the
That the recirculating ball steering combined with the shape and position of the steering wheel in this vehicle
Makes it like extra weird the steering wheel is like almost a sports car sized steering wheel
It has two spokes. We've got a photo of it some somewhere. You have an interior photo handy there
Yeah, it's got two spokes that come out at nine and three
Kind of tough to tell which way is up on the steering wheel sometimes. Yes
And and and it's it's it's the kind of wheel you'd see like this wheel would be right at home in a mini Cooper
Yeah, or if you had 500, you know something something kind of funky like yeah, let's sit row and hatchback
Um
So when you combine this small thick rim steering wheel with a ton of turns lock-to-lock
And and quite a bit of weight. It is a fairly heavy steering
It just it it to me presents an odd experience for a vehicle
That is for most people in America going to be driven on the street on tarmac most of the time
Yeah, like there's a lot of pushback on the wheel and it it could be the alignment. It could be
You know, you have pretty big wheels and tires
But it's just as you when you turn it you're getting a lot of force back on it
Yeah, so they feel but it's pushing those wheels to go straight again. Yeah, so the steering as you turn in this is better
The quarter master. I think you had to like hold it in the turn
So it was it was lose your feeling. It was just weird the self-centering
Yeah, which is when you're going from a turn in the car straightening out and most cars will if you let go of the
Wheel sort of tends to do that on their own the wheel will unwind on its own, right on the road
You have to
Physically unwind it from a corner in this vehicle if you take a 90-degree right turn the wheel will
Effectively stay there. It doesn't spin back. It does not self-center
So that's another different thing you have to do which is in a vehicle. We have to spin wheel a lot
It's it's a lot now. This sounds like I'm kind of shitting on it. I want to like
This is a criticism about this thing that I don't particularly like
They made a choice. It's not like a failure. It's not like something that didn't work like they say it's stronger
They say it's better for off-roading
They say this is first and foremost an off-roading vehicle and driving it on tarmac is deeply secondary to how it performs off-road
Fucking fair enough like fair enough, you know, it's like saying this race cars bad in traffic. Okay, fair enough
You know so in we took it off-roading them
It's pretty good at that it is it's pretty good that the trail that we use which is called rower
North of LA was pretty rough today. It's this trail was as as eroded
Full of rocks and holes and as I've ever seen it
I mean, I think Zach could attest to that that this was the most challenging that this particular trail
Has ever been in my opinion. Yeah, I think well
We had a week of rain the big the big storm out here and it washed all the dirt that fills in these rocks
I mean some of the rocks we were on
It just that the rain revealed a lot more of them
So if the rock was four inches it might be six now and and all of the little
You have these little like
Legos that form a larger rock out here
Those the ones that are all compressed together and all of those teeth were revealed to yeah
That provides a lot of grip
But I mean any any of these undulations that just turned into rivers during this rainstorm
We're way deeper than they've been in any of our time climbing this thing. Yeah, normally
Normally a competent stock SUV does not have much trouble with this trail
We did it in an escape before no we did it in a Bronco sport Bronco sport made it up. That was probably the like
Punious thing to make it up. Did we make it in the outback or the outback did not make it. It couldn't get past the hole
Yeah, the outback the outback didn't make it. I tried it in a macan once and that couldn't do it
But like anything with low-range can do it pretty much
But we had a couple spots today that we had to fully reverse down I
Came very close to rolling. Yes, you can do the photo you have the photo of me
This dude we we push this thing today. We scratched up both skid plates pretty well and the center
We said in rower. There's a couple of hills where you can choose three different routes up the hill, you know, and it's usually like
For skiing like me, you know an intermediate slope and like two expert slopes
But the one in the middle has always had the deepest holes these kind of like
Oscillations, you know, it's tilting the truck back and forth. It really tests articulation. Yeah
and what I recognized after
We will tell we can talk about the moment and then we can talk about the tech that this truck should have had
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Com code tire. I mean look the mom the moment is what it is
I went through one of these big swales with a big articulation
It's you know in this in a photo that we're showing right now. The the front left tire is
At least 18 inches off the ground
Yeah, and it was higher at a different point in that like yeah in that section you the first time you did it
You stopped yeah, and I was like holy shit, and I took a photo and your tire was absolutely two feet off the ground
Yeah, so then a few feet maybe ten feet further up this ravine
There was another swale, but it was very soft. Yeah, and we did not air down
We honestly just out of laziness and and usually when we're testing stock SUVs on this trail
We don't air down we just drive them right off the road and up the trail just because that's how we do the test
I mean this isn't like
Sciencey science, but like I think if we air down some of the cars and not others that would be not you know consistent
So so you know we use whatever drive modes are appropriate and available for the for the challenge of the obstacle
And we leave the tire pressure stock, so I think had we aired down we probably could have got up this soft thing
We didn't I had to back down. I tried it like three times and on the third try
the vehicle went into this ravine, but like
We kind of realized just how like far down it was like
Okay, so in this photo the front left tire is about three feet in the air
It's a lot and it's at full droop. Yeah, and the other tire is at full compression
The rear tire is articulated the other axle is articulated fully in the opposite way and
Had I fallen had the front tire fallen from this I
Absolutely would have rolled the vehicle. Well, it was deep enough and this was right before
Don't have a shot now because I put my phone down to help so right after this moment
The front left tire went into this deep hole and and he kept proceeding forward
But then you hit the soft stuff and the truck yawed left. Oh, yeah
Nine inches so now instead of facing straight up that trail and having all that control you twisted and the left
You know left front was kind of near a bush back right
What I mean that rear tire could not have gone higher
Yeah, I would have gone into that was sort of sideways down the hill side ways and the way the moment happened when you were starting to
back up I think and
The vehicle like
Started to it's just the rebound of the shock and and you're going slow. You weren't going fast
It was just the rebound and everything tilted your driver window
Closer to the ground than we ever experienced
Yeah, really really close to the ground like I ran around the car and probably did nothing
But my instinct was pushed on the other fender not like under the car
But I was like oh shit
Yeah, and and you just you move back just enough and the back left came rose rose up a little and settled it
But I don't it was like it wasn't like a fuck-up that got me there
And it wasn't like an act of heroism that got me out of there
It was just like a whole shit, you know is one of those
It's very this thing is capable enough that we got to this point where it was like all right
Let's see what this you know this this this is a hard obstacle. We're gonna choose the hardest path
We think it can do it. Yeah, it actually can't
We did with this is where it couldn't proceed. We had to go around the other one later
But like this is a tough rig
But yeah, we got it pretty close to pretty close to having a moment and with this highlighted for me is the advantage of
electronic, you know
Sway bars, you know, you can get them on the Bronco Ranger or Wrangler
I think have them first of course and
That makes a massive difference because the articulation
Toyotas you can do it. I think oh you get on the Toyota the Toyota the Land Cruiser
I mean people who are experienced off-roaders know and we've been on press launches where you try something with you know
Those things engage and you know disengage the sway bars and you gain a foot of articulation
Now in the back
I don't know if you would get more room because you might have the tire up against the wheel well
But in the front if you're able to twist this down another foot, you know, that would have prevented the body from
I mean so much
Yeah, I mean, I think what's what any os is really going for with this thing is
To make it as simple as possible
Which is an interesting thing for us to explore because I'm not sure that they've succeeded
because
It's still it's still it's not as complex as most modern vehicles
It has as they told me like somewhere between a half and two-thirds of
Excuse me a third. I want to say that right the Grenadier has between one-third and one-half the number of
ECUs that a normal like car would have today
So it has a mechanical, you know low-range, but it still has electronic, you know locking diffs
It still has drive modes. It still has you know a
Screen and car play and Bluetooth in fucking a-dass has that
Turbocharged engine. It's a BMW engine in a GF gearbox in modern stuff
Yeah, so it's not like it's got you know a Buick
3800 v6 and a five-speed manual, right, you know and crank windows, you know it
There are definitely things on this that could break in a modern way such as
The gearbox with it got stuck in fourth gear for us
We actually didn't notice it because we were going downhill and we were in low range
And we were essentially just idling the engine and and using the brakes
But but for about 45 minutes the vehicle was fully stuck in fourth gear
Yeah, and we had to shut it off and I mean fortunately all it took to fix it was was
Shut it off walk away for a few minutes come back and and that did fix it
But like you know it just is a reminder that weird electronic hiccups can happen in this thing also like it's not so simple that
check engine lights and
You're electronically controlled gearbox getting stuck in fourth gear isn't gonna happen like that happened. Yeah
and
but like
The analogness of it in an otherwise incredibly digitized world is like super welcome like the buttons and the knobs and the
Toggles and the fact that at night. There's so little light coming at you in the cockpit like all that shit is fucking great
Yeah, and those little bars next to the toggles. I'd always looked at them and just thought oh, that's like
I just didn't understand like the true function and then we're bouncing around and I had to like disable the front locking
Deferty whatever and I hooked my finger on it and hit it with my thumb
I went oh
Yeah, that's why because otherwise there's no way I'd be able to aim for that button while we were bouncing up and down this trail
The off-road controls aren't
Fully as intuitive as they maybe should be but there is like a nice quick handy reference guide car placard
That was very helpful every car company
If it's a press car should have that thing like if you're an owner you might learn these things
But I think any cars that sold and aimed at off-road or should have placard off-road functions because now with all these electronic diffs
Locking this and that sometimes you have to dig in the manual and go find page
212e and then if you want to look at the you know a different function
It's over a different page and this was here's all the things you might need to know and it was really handy
We only when this when we had the the other
Ineos like a year and a half ago whatever it was we had trouble getting into some of these modes
So we didn't have that card and the reason is like it can only go into this mode if this mode is engaged first
But like that doesn't pop up on the screen. I wish it did that because I'm glad you brought that up
There's a little on the lower left side of the screen is where the warning lights pop up little information
I kept thinking it was a button. They're not shaped like some of the clickable buttons. Yeah, yeah
But we have this screen that can display so much information and later on it said window washer fluid low
Yeah, so there's there's programming in there that could tell me things but to just say this unavailable
Yeah, tell me why me for the further information before you go into this mode
This must be activated. Yeah, as much as I dislike Hyundai's Hyundai N divisions
Men you like black hole it will often say hey you have to go into this mode first doesn't tell you how
Yeah, but it does say you have to be like it should work like a car configurator, right?
Where you click on the wall seats and it says I'm sorry you have to get premium package
Would you like to add premium package and then it's just done right like if it can work on the thing you used to buy the car
Yes, it should work in the car exactly, you know like you must sorry. Oh, it's again in this mode
You must disable trash control. Would you like to disable trash cool? Yes?
Okay done like there should just be a flowchart of that because it's clear you want that thing on right so
Speaking of which a dash, okay now a British car company and we know from Aston Martin the UK
Mandatory a dash law and for these small car makers and for maybe I'll have to correct myself
I this is a US market vehicle. It's not it. This is not a Europeans bet car
So it's the a dash fully goes back on every time you start the car
If there are two kinds of cars where this should not happen
Luxury sporty SUVs is gotta be the biggest one because those are cars driven every day by people
That's people's every car and then shit like this where it's supposed to give you the impression of something older
Hmm and it's doing the most annoying thing possible out of today's cars and to turn off the fucking a-dash in this thing
You have to go in the touchscreen. You have to press settings
Vehicle functions a-dash
Which brings up the a-dash menu. That's three button tabs if you are stopped and I mean in park
You can then scroll to the bottom of a long menu at the very bottom and click a thing saying turn off all
And you have to do that. That's your best case scenario for every time you start the car and I'm talking
Lane
Lane keep that is that a second lane that makes you almost think you've had a crash correction
The course of correction on the wheel was so abrupt to happen twice while you were driving us back that I I thought you were avoiding
Something about to hit. Yeah, and you're like that you hit just like move towards the yellow line on the left and it pushed back
With a like three or four times as hard as you had moved over
Doesn't it doesn't match the angle or cadence with which you've drifted. Yeah, it's really it's almost like a dog ran in the road
And I'm trying to and you're talking about a top-heavy
Floppy-ass SUV yeah, not a fucking cayenne turbo right so so you have to so if best case scenario is
one two
Three slide four when you're parked every time best case scenario if you forget and now you're driving
You can't hit the fucking turn all off
They gray it out
Now you have like six individual a-dash functions
Click off. Are you sure? Yes, click off. Are you sure? Yes, click off. Are you sure? Yes, click off?
Are you sure so now it goes to like 15 button taps while your touchscreen taps while you're driving, right?
This is like crazy town. I can't fucking and Johnny I had dinner with Johnny during night for a thing with Sergio cuz Tatos
Going off whatever we had dinner together and Johnny goes
He's like in love with this thing. He goes when I'm done with the review. I'm gonna buy one of these
This is gonna be my next daily driver. I go Johnny. Did you have you have you messed with the a-dash yet?
He goes no, I didn't really try it yet. I you should you're gonna want to do that
This shit is crazy, dude. That alone puts it in the absolutely fucking never category for me
I just think it's strange that you know the intention of a-dash is to increase safety
But if you are moving that it requires more attention on the screen than if you're parked insane. Yeah insane
What else did I write about this thing? Okay, the good folks got to take one more quick break because fit bod
Wants your ears and man
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I think the I think the BMW powertrain for the most part fits the character of this thing very well
I think it works the only exception though was in low range
There was this kind of step as you start applying throttle the boosters that would happen
It made it a little hard to modulate the the thrust and then like the speed of the rear wheel or the wheels
between like
2000 and 2800 rpm all of a sudden they go for work spike and it highlighted for me
The how impressive the forerunner was you know, that's a four-cylinder engine
But it had the eye power whatever electric boost and by filling in those torque spots
It was much easier to creep up these this exact same trail do the electric g-wagon sure that's the electric
G-wagon and the and the Rivian the four motor Rivian
That shit that's like next let that I mean this I would you don't want a Rivian in the fucking middle of Africa
That makes total sense, but for local off-roading. Holy shit is four motor EV where it's fucking at. Yeah, that was the most control
I think I think the the grenadier
Particularly and can we let's get a better picture of it in fire engine fucking red
Which is new for this year with the steel ease
And it's got the snorkel on it though they qualified the snorkel with it is a dust snorkel not a water snorkel
The fitment where the snorkel goes into the steel body is not water tight
So it's really for dust and not yet the opening on the snorkel faces the back of the car
Yeah, front of the car. Yeah, so I might not equip mine with dust snorkel
But this one but still the red with the black steel ease. That's dope. It's very good
The interior I love the dashboard the headliner the pop-up sunroofs above the driver like that shit is great
But this thing is $95,000. I don't mind manual seats
But we need lumbar support that that is a I need even if it's just a knob
You crank up or a thing a thing you squeeze like for 95,000
100 grand and it's a vehicle that's meant to be driven for long long long distance
Yeah, I just I flew in yesterday yesterday from New York sat on a plane for five and a half hours
No, and I went in my back hurt toward the end of that and I was sitting there going the shape of the seat feels good now
But would it after five hours? I don't know the answer
It doesn't you notice the lack of the one thing is that the adjustment knob for the seats it changed the angle of the seats is
Right in line with the B pillar and if your hands and wrists are any bigger than ours. It's weird
You're not adjusting it. Yeah, it's weird and and and then the back seat which in the pickup truck if you recall was fucking
Laughable because the cab is really short to have like a bed and so the backs. It's a vertical to you
So the back seat is like so vertical like you cannot fit in it in the pickup truck
They might as well
Ditch the back doors and just make an extended cab and have the seats fold forward or or something
But like that's just crazy
In this one the back seat is okay the leg rooms okay
But it doesn't it's still very upright. It doesn't recline. Hmm. It also doesn't fold down flat. It's fixed
There's no I didn't yeah, it doesn't fold forward and it doesn't fold back and there's no fold-down armrest in the middle
again
$95,000 and the seats are made by like recaro. I think you can't change the angle and you can't fold it down
So if you own this thing
Seats are made by a car don't hold me that I think I think I saw a car on there somewhere, but like
But I just it doesn't
Again for this much money, you know like I
get that boutique
Vehicles made in small volume and and and the the the actual quality as you noticed as well today's act
They are screwed. They are right. So this thing is it's not like they don't know how to make a good seat
Like Fisker like they like they've never even tried their for their seats were terrible, but but like I don't know
There's a there is a bunch of stuff where it's like yes, that's boutique. Yes, it's analog
Yes, it's it's got a lot of things about it that do make it sort of pseudo exotic
But there's other shit where it's like for this much money, dude
Lumbar a back seat a rear seat that has some kind of adjustment
So so Top Gear magazine said the rear seats the bench does fold flat it does so maybe we didn't find that thing
We have to go we should go we'll have to go out and look again
I I couldn't find a lever
It may not lean back because that's something that's
Kind of recent to cars where the back seat is adjustable to lean back for comfort folding flat forward has been around for a long long time
Yeah, I just think there's nothing behind it, right?
There's there isn't a good reason that this can't have some adjustability
It has a lot of the ergonomics of like a g-wagon. Yeah backseat not a lot of leg room
Yeah, trunk not that deep although maybe I have looked the measurements like not that deep
I like the split tailgate door. I think it's clever so it opens doesn't need as much room
Doesn't have a huge swing or I was was it a Bronco?
I think it's the Bronco the Bronco had like a crate
You need an enormous amount of room to open that bad in the g-wagon Bronco or the I
I think it was I think it was the Bronco. Anyway, go on. Sorry, but it does it
I mean now this thing had a thousand miles on it. I
Think it felt really really solid even compared to when we've gotten Wrangler vehicles
Just it feels like the tolerances are really really good. Yeah
Bouncing up and down all these rocks like the only the only wiggle sound in the entire car was the key chain
Yeah, which I and also I got me nuts do that key chain
Click I've almost stopped to take the thing off. Also. It has a key which is interesting
Which is interesting. Yeah, you you put the key in keep it simple unless one less ECU
Without having that thing. Yeah, that was the only sound in it. No, I'd like I I don't I like the key
I like the toggles and the the analog switches. I like the manual seats like but I just
There's just you know, there's some things that I think that for that much money
Now this one also had all the off-road stuff. It has the winch which we didn't use
Expensive option the winches the most expensive options like four grand or something and it's got oh, I started down this road
The the this is the wagon. There's also the quarter master is the truck
But then confusingly trial master is an off-road
Trim package
Not excuse me an off-road equipment package that can be applied to any of them
So you could have a quarter master trial master, which is dumb
In Eos's naming scheme is really gonna go off the rails next year when they come out with the Fusiliar
Which is one of the worst car names?
It's terrible. Oh, hey, by the way speaking of just sidebar fun fact fun fact for everybody today. Did you know?
that even though in
1958
America had about a half the population it has now
During the same two-year period of time Ford sold almost twice as many Edzels as
Tesla has sold cyber trucks the car a car that is like this like
The
Fail car
They sold twice as many of them to half as many people during the same period of time is the cyber truck
Wow, that's how bad the cyber truck. Well is a flop. I mean there were fewer cars available
Good point. So there were fewer cars available
Good point. Yeah, yeah trial master. Yeah, there's the quarter master trial master
Yeah
So you could you could you could have a quarter master field master or you could have a quarter master trial master
They must have had infinities people on the name
That's just that's just a quarter master field. Just just end with field. Yeah, that's fine quarter master trial
Trials trials not trials. Yeah, and you would you'd keep black edition. You would not shorten that right so so
I mean look if you if anyone out there is considering an old defender
I don't mean like 1960s old, but I mean like any like any of those fucking
Crazy expensive like v8 swap defenders on either any of that kind of shit
Skip all of that just skip straight over that garbage and just get one of these. Yeah, I mean if you think you want a defender
I can almost guarantee you you actually want this instead this had I rested my arm on the arm right on the left side
It's meant for people who have left arms for people who have arms on the for the outside of the vehicle on either side
Yeah, it drives nice and I think you know the ball steering as annoying as it is for road stuff
Um, it's true of the Wrangler as well when you are driving off-road and there's a lot of kickback on the tires
It mutes that pretty well, you know, there's not a lot like it reduces the chances of you breaking your fingers
But yeah thumbs out of the spokes anyway. Yeah, uh, I mean that's true
I mean and it it's it's it's better built than one of those old, you know
The the comp for this is old defender not new
Range Rover or maybe maybe hopped up Wrangler. I mean you if you if you were considering one of those 75 or 80 thousand dollar
Hopped up Wranglers. I think you your money goes further buying one of these
I think you I think it as long as you're driving on the road more
You know because the hopped up Wrangler will have things like the you know
Electronic sway bars like it will be more suited for serious off-roading. Yeah
And the engine if it's still the penistar v6 is also
It's like a simpler kind of more known thing
but
This this kind of reminds me at that price point. This is like the shop foreman drives this right the f150 platinum edition
You know, it looks off-roading. It is off-roading to a degree, but it has a slightly different badge
It looks different. It looks like the old defender, but drives more like a new car
You got to explain to a lot of people that it's not a defender. That's sure
That I had to spend a lot of time. Did you get approached a lot? Yeah
Oh, what's up with the defender like it's not what is it? It's named after me by chevron
Yeah, I mean like what if what if chevron made a car? That's what INEOS is INEOS is like a petroleum company
So it's like if this is the chevron
Grenadier
Gas company car like ever
Yeah, but they look we made a good product. I mean, I think we are we're pointing out the details in this tiny problems
which is what we should do and
For first effort as we've talked about. Oh, yeah, very impressive
Honestly, if you look at this car and just looking at it you go. I like that you probably will like you you actually probably will
um
The only things that would keep me from buying it
You know if I really liked how it looked and the idea of it is the adas and maybe the seats
I wonder if
Lobbyists or companies or something can make an argument for if a car is imported from europe
Can we have a different adas interaction system? That's quicker or you know, then they have over there
If they can add a little pro area, I don't think they have to put that in here for america
That shit's voluntary. I think people like having lane keep assist
They like having those features in us cars also
But if the if we can access those controls and disable them more quickly than europe law allows
Yeah, or just have them stay off
If you turn it off, I mean the answer is just to have it or default to wherever you left it
That's I mean that's the thing. Yeah a car
Imagine setting anything in your car the fucking radio this the memory seats
Whatever and every time you get back in the car. It's not where you left it. That's fucking crazy. That's terrible
Yeah, true. Who would want a car like adas memory function you hit m
Oh my god, tie it to the memory seat. Sure, bro. Your big boy needs adas off
Your short woman. Sure. This is I'm not being sexist. I'm talking about my own wife
Your short woman in memory three really fucking needs it. Yeah, I mean there's profiles like the you know
M cars have all that stuff so I don't have an adas profile patent pending
That's fucking all right. Yeah, they don't I kept saying to like astin like how come
You know, you've got tour
Sport track and then individual. I said, well, why don't you just make it?
So you can have individual adas settings in your individual drive mode
So I start the car and I go into individual and everything's where I want it
And they said it's like a not not enough, you know button clicks or whatever to
It's got to be by law. Oh, it's the minimum three
Yeah
Anyway, we didn't we didn't break it, but we did scratch the skid plates a little bit. We peed we peed pants and
Definitely did a little scratchy scratchy in the underside
But that's what it's there for and I don't know how much lean, you know, one of these vehicles can take
I'm sure if we were maybe for the pro off-roader coach or something
They go no, you got a couple degrees left. Yeah, that was enough for us
That's like that raw and white joke like I don't know how many of them it would take to beat me up
But I know how many they had
Um, oh and the last thing about it, dude, you know what I did experience on the highway
The funhouse mirror effect at night because all the windows are vertical like my old Hummer
I've told this story, but the light bounces around in there. Oh my gosh. And so if you have a
It
You seek you see cars
in
The back window that are being reflected from the front window
So like I was following a white Mini Cooper
And I look in the rear view mirror
And it shows me in my back window the tail lights the ass end of a white Mini Cooper
And you're like man that guy's going fast and that used to happen in my Hummer
And it happens in this too when the windows are perfectly vertical you get funhouse mirrors. Whoa. Yeah, it's a little creepy
Uh, so thanks to Ineos for letting us have a go for a week. We we appreciate it. Yeah, we do. It was a fun morning out there
Uh, till I thought I lost my phone. We had to go look for it. Oh, yeah, and then it was in the car the whole time
It were I mean well it was hidden very well in the car
But but we thought it fell out of the car
Yeah, and we went looking for it. It was on the way back to where we were going and uh, then it wasn't there
So I logged in a zax phone used to find my iphone. I made my phone
Play a little song and the song came from the car
There we go. It was excellent excellent day. Um, what else we have? Oh, so
Don't need political. What did you see that?
Fucking hair furor wants to have an indie car race at the national mall in washington
What yeah, I did not see that so first, you know first
They want to do ufc on the white house lawn and now they're talking about having an indie car race
In washington dc. They planned the freedom 250 around the national mall
It's part of the uh, this this fucking
This is uh, uh, like a map like in gladiator
200 days of games. This is like the straight up
Commodus 200 days of games
Uh
Era of
Now i'm not inherently against having a nash a street race in washington dc. That's okay, right?
The fuck not have a little have a little indie car race sure. I mean street circuits are fun
And they're exciting. Okay, so it would be like around here ish
My guess is it would be yeah, I don't know the the what the distances are. Yeah
Where does uh, where does that that bottom independence have southwest is it come bring her? Oh, yeah comes around
Wow, so it probably will connect somewhere and then go up, you know constitution avenue
Back around right? Yeah, I mean that could be fast. That could be kind of a neat track. Well, it's like a gentle sweeper sweeper
Yeah, I mean maybe they chicane it somewhere if you go around the lincoln memorial if you take a hard right in here
Yeah, and go lincoln memorial and then north there. Yeah, or on the angle on the angle. Maybe oh, yeah on the 45 there
That could be cool
Look, I gotta say out of all the things he has decreed in the last year. This is probably my favorite
Because if if someone got the permits independently from him it was like we're having a race here
And here's what it's gonna look like. I'd say if the track's cool like that's pretty cool, right? So
All right, yeah, you can't make something shitty just because trump did it
Yes, that's what I'm trying to do that. Uh, and
It's probably easier to get those permits when it's been decreed by the great leader. Yeah. Yeah, which is now
That's the aspect. I don't like but because he's in construction
He could wave he could just wave permits, right? Well, you just don't pay the permit. You just go ahead anyway
Just do it whatever. All right
I think I need I need to see the track map of what they would do man
You could well you're gonna you're gonna turn right on trump avenue and then turn left onto trump place
And then and then go straight down trump way and then
And then you break it the trump s's you got the baron chicane. Yeah, yeah, yeah
You do a lap you should call it the teen chicane because we're gonna get demonized because it's causing a little trouble
Yeah, you know, it just could throw off your race. Yeah, we're gonna get uh, no views on this video now turn left that
Eat s's. Yeah
Oh
Anyway, but there's no rules you can just go straight across those and there will be no flag
Uh questions, would you get to that? Yeah, I don't have I I legitimately don't have
Anything else. Yeah, I didn't drive anything this weekend. I drove my own cars. How about that?
I put 250 miles on my spider this weekend and I
Reminded myself that it now has
7500 miles and I need an oil change so it's gonna go to bbi next week for an oil change for the eight hour surgery
Yeah, dude, that's crazy. How long fucking oil changes taken spiders. That's insane
Uh, let's go to the people of course. Who are these people?
Patreon.com slash the smoking tire podcast
They're the people that support this show in good times and in bad with their
Dollars every month keeping the show rolling down the river and for those dollars
They get to listen to the show live. If not live, they get to listen to the show early
They get to ask their questions for the show, which we will get to in just a second
They get extra show every month and they get exclusive access to
Merch collabs and things like the uh notice canyon watches that we are doing and patrons get them first
Uh
Alrighty queer shift and gears
I'm trying to make a list of fun
Wait, I'm trying to make a list of fun vintage sporty runabouts for cleveland, ohio
Previously had an mg
and a boxster
Uh, currently top of the list is a honda s 800 and old mini
What else should I throw on the list and a manx feels a bit too weather dependent?
Uh, well, how about your beetles then? I mean, there's lots of room in beetle land. Um,
Not weather dependent. I if you haven't had a beetle, I would throw that in there. Uh, I mean
Old british shit, right?
Your your your your triumphs your austin helis. I mean you had an mga
So you you know you know about that s 800's a great call. It is the coop. I just looked up. That's a pretty cool looking thing
Oh, those are pretty rad. Yeah
Um, oh dude, you know what I just saw that was amazing. It was a triumph
tr4
Coach body by vignale. It was at the manhattan beach cars and coffee
I'd never seen one before it was very pretty. It was an italian styled triumph. I believe it was a tr4
They made like 300 of them or something. Do you see that? It's like try of tr4 italiano or some shit like that
But the body is by vignale vig and al e and it sort of has a very like maserati-ish kind of look
You're gonna find one from triumph italia. Yeah, italia. That might be it
Yeah, that top left triumph italia. That's it. Sorry
That look, I mean
That is it's like a baby aster. It's like a little baby maserati seabring for that. Yeah. Yeah pretty cool
This is really nice in the back
This this thing was red tan looked great had the fitted luggage in there
That's a hot little item. Yeah
If you can find yourself a uh, yeah triumph italia rear three quarter of you. Yeah, apparently they're pretty rare
Only made a couple hundred of them, but fucking cool
Yeah, I like that
How about something a little more modern? How about an outtt first gen?
That's a good baseball. That's a good choice sporty runabout. That could be awesome
P car photos. Do you prefer the look of the miata rf over the standard soft top?
And does the rf's added weight noticeably change the driving experience? Yes, I do and no, I don't think it really does
I
Do not prefer the look of the retractable hard top
I do not think it
Significantly changes the driving experience. However
I I think it's still fucking loud in there considering considering it's a real roof
It totally doesn't knock the noise back that much. It weighs 113 pounds more. Yeah, and I think
I think it changes it the noise by like a decibel or two. So
Um, I like it
I think it looks cool, and I like the security of the hard top
Versus the soft top and more durable over a long-term ownership
Yeah, uh duffel shuffle retirement club recently learned about the diesel powered outer eight
Prototype didn't that have the v12 diesel in it out of the that we're using in the q7. I think it did diesel
All right, what crazy diesel engine in a supercar combo. Would you like to see?
interesting question and
Interesting thought exercise personally
A diesel engine in a supercar is does not interest me at all
It doesn't diesel. I like the torque of it and the long legs
My brain goes to like veyron if you want to drive 2,000 miles in one tank of fuel
Yeah, but if you have a supercar you have supercar gas card money
Then just keep putting high octane in it. You know, it just doesn't give you any sound as good
It doesn't rev it the power pan that it makes is not
The kind of power band that I enjoy in a sports car. I mean, I think outie's
Um strategy at lemaw with the diesel cars was fucking unbelievable. I mean that it worked for years
One races with it, but they did not put it in their supercar. Yeah. I mean, I think that that says a lot
I mean the thing that the engine, you know, the race car driver
Drives the race car fast like whatever it is the race car driver is not there to have fun
And I am there to have fun
I'm spending a lot of money on this car to have fun
And I'm guessing the reason they never actually made it is because it probably wasn't very fun
Imagine the rev sound
I suck. I mean, it probably wasn't that great like
um, I I think
I think that's a sad truth of diesels in sports cars. It's just like they're not they're not for that
Having said that all right sound. Yeah, what would I like I I do think you could put like
A Cummins or like a I saw a Duramax in like an old Cadillac
Yes, like that. There's something to that where if you have an old cruiser
You could diesel it up and it could be cool led sleds
Old hot rods those are cool. And I still like the m cars in europe that are diesel. I think
For like oh, yeah, those like the m 550d. Sure, whatever. Yeah, no, I don't mind that as a as a that's like a
Because that's a highway car. Exactly. That's like I'm doing 30 000 miles a year and that's all right. I just like for not for a supercar
Gat Farah
That's a good one. I've been thinking about buying a gun
I mean, I have a shotgun, but I mean, but like a gun gun. I want to be thinking like that
I don't want to look it. I'm not a gun. I'm not like I have a gun guy. It gets to there just swing by
Your friend's house. I know
You know borrow one or if it does that's true if it does I just I know I know where to go you have the sailing knowledge
And your friend has the other oh for fucking sure sure
Shit really goes down. You know, guess what? No, no boat is safe. We voltron
We're fucking going
um
Um
Okay
Gat Farah says regarding the lemonade debate. Okay, this is now. I don't know if it's a debate
But this is a company that is offering to provide discounted insurance
Based on the fact that it says that if if you use tesla fsd
You are safer and therefore your rates go down and we've sort of
Pretty much implied that that's not actually based any existing science
um
The question is wouldn't an insurance company that has a telematics platform be ideally positioned to produce their own data
About fsd versus non fsd safety. I think there is actually an argument for that
um
If lemonade knows about driving behavior via their own data and can then correlate to fsd versus non fsd miles
And then compared to all cars in the data set surely they'd be able to draw a good conclusion to support
Their fsd discount for the record. I think this is tech bro accelerationist bs also
Um, I think you're right here
I think if they if they did have telematics and and connected telemetry that that really did work and could produce that type of a test
Um and could get it in enough cars
And have it running over a period of time. They absolutely could produce their own data
But it doesn't seem like that's what they're trying to do. It seems like they're trying to hype fsd
Yeah, we'll see. Um, um real quick, uh, someone mentioned caster in terms of the inios and I found inios forum
And people said that in stock this is 2024 cars the stock
Vehicles only had two degrees of caster. So one person added 1.5 degrees and it made a big difference in their steering response
Really? So remember the uh, who made that Volvo? We drove the p1800 thing. Yeah. Oh, yeah zero caster terrible
Also, we didn't even mention it
But the 2026 vehicle which we were driving did have like a list of like 60 updates
There were and some of them were big and some of them were small
So there was like updates so the climate control system updates to like all kinds of little stuff
But there were a couple of updates to the steering
Um little suspension bits that changed the behavior. I think based on those type of complaints
Um from those earlier cars
And so although I don't have an apples to apples comparison or to say like yes, this is better
I think it's a little better than when I drove it last time. I think it is too, but it's still
Not as good as if it was a rack and pinion system. Yeah. Yeah
Uh kendrick lamark for supra
pretty good
If if oems could set up a completely blind test meaning journalists got in a car
And there was no badging and no way to tell what brand of car you're in
What cars would overperform and what cars would underperform?
talking about performance driving or like in terms of people's
review of that car
I mean, I I don't know if they mean
Drive if you mean driving or like touching stuff and quality
um
I mean cars that would overperform driving is probably like genesis
Actually in terms of touching and in terms of driving is probably genesis genesis. Yeah cars that would underperform
non m bmw's now. I think if you got in a fucking
Like a
Fully loaded up. I don't know elantra versus a
BMW 2 series the front wheel drive one the four I I bet you couldn't tell much difference at all
Yeah, they both have lots of screen. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I think the Cadillacs
would underperform because I think
uh genesis and hunday and other they've gotten closer to those higher priced vehicles and Cadillac has a lot of the
Same like hard buttons, which I really appreciate
But because they don't have the fancy sparkle sometimes which is detrimental like Mercedes you might think it's a lower market
Sure, if you're talking dynamics, the Cadillacs would probably overperform. Very true. Yeah, I was thinking just interior design
Reeducation through working on shit boxes
New assignment for the patrons. I would like your
Kitchy usernames to be based on rise against songs for the next three months, please. Let's let's work on that
Reeducation through labor is an excellent song
Tim McElrath was at uh at the tom morello concert the one in minneapolis. Yeah with springsteen and shit
Oh, they did a couple rise against tunes and they also did
Misery by soul asylum, which is a great song
um
A few weeks ago asked for advice debating between the 981 Boxster s and the e92 m3
and your
recommendation
Came down to don't get back seats if you don't need them
Then my wife and I just learned we have a need for back seats in the near future. Congratulations. There we go
Is an e90 m3 manual a better m5 than an e39 m5
I think in many ways in many ways. Yes in many ways. Yes in terms of reliability cost of ownership
twisty dynamic fun
Yes, all those things to nine years newer car
It's a second generation engine compared to the m5's engine
I would say yes, it is a it is a better car
um
Yeah, the e39 m5 is probably a better collectible
but um
Uh, yeah, I think a four door m3 e90 is a good a good choice and congratulations swede low
Uh, okay looking for tires for a sob 9 000 turbo
You know when the last time I saw a fucking 9 000 turbo was out there they sobs don't exist in LA
Yeah, they don't I saw I saw 1 900 at Manhattan beach cars and coffee
Non-turbo no wing. We just they were on the east coast. They were everywhere. They just don't exist here
Um, do you have an opinion on quote classic tires versus a regular modern high quality all season?
Is this a uh cosmetic thing for the purists because they point out that these classic tires are more expensive than a similar
Right, you know s tire. Yeah, so here's the uh
The good thing about the classic tires is they're used modern rubber, right?
It's the old shape and style and it's and it's modern rubber
So for a car like like a coontosh or an 80s an exotic car or a specialty car or as you pointed out if you want the look
um, or if you want the car to
Drive kind of like how it would have you know, but with with the better compound
So it'll grip better, but with the tread pattern, you know, it would drive in the wet and snow
Like it used like it would have back then and so like
If if you want to you know, keep it period correct like, you know pay the cost to be the boss, right?
And these tires are made in smaller quantities. So they're going to be more expensive
But also the rim size. I mean, this is yeah, they mentioned the mission 15s
Yeah, they mentioned the michelin xz x it only comes in a 12 inch and a 15 inch rim size
So it comes either for like a mini cooper. Yeah, the 12 would be a mini and then 15 is going to be
A lot of well also my coontosh is 15s. I mean the my manx is 15s like
The ferrari 308 is 15s a lot of 80s cars are 15s 70s and 80s cars
It
In my opinion if you don't care about the look
And you do care about the price
Just get regular tires. Yeah, no one's gonna be like, ew, bro. Your car you put new tires on your car like
it's uh
at speaking of which
to talk i'm just
I should get front row parking forever. I mean i'm plugging Manhattan beach cars and coffee
But there was a guy there was a fox body
93 cobra
And as I do because I can't help myself squat down look at the tires and the guy the guy goes
They're original. I go from 93 and he goes. Yeah
I go you drive this here. He goes. Yeah, I go you really shouldn't be doing that and he looked at me like
Okay, buddy, wherever I go. Look no man like
Nobody gives a shit that this has original tires on it 30 and if you really care that much take them off and put them in a bag
You you're one pothole away from spinning this thing into a telephone. You know a blowout. Yeah
The tire just shred 30 year old tires this guy's driving around on
What are you doing? I think people don't know people just people literally don't know so bragging about it
Lucky to be alive
um
Yama Habibi if you had to prescribe driving homework to every driving enthusiast
What cars should every enthusiast experience driving at least once in their life?
I mean, there's a there's a that's an easy one. You've got your Miata's
Uh, you've got your uh, uh, mustangs 80s 80s 90s mustangs you've got your uh,
Your civic someone did you drive a great civic?
Everyone should drive um
Like uh, like an early 2000s subaru wrx or sti
and even also an evo
Everyone should try a gated manual Ferrari
Um
Everybody should be
Should at least be driven if not drive
In a mclaren in anger
Like a 750 on a track or a 765 on a track
um
And you'd be shocked that things like that are allowed for sale on the street at all
and everyone should do uh
quarter mile pull
in like
A lucid sapphire or tycon turbo gt to really understand what there's what they're selling people in terms of
and everyone should um
Everyone should should do a full a quarter mile pull in a rivian
Quad motor and then have to slam on the brakes at the quarter mile
Just to see what they're actually selling people over there
And you'll and you'll be like, uh, that shouldn't be legal
I think you should also hopefully get a quarter mile pull in something with a big turbo
Yeah, just to see the difference. Yeah in generation of horsepower everyone should try a model t
Um, everyone should try a three on the tree column a three on the three shift
That'll get you going old stuff new stuff mid all mid engine rear engine front
You know start with that criteria for sure. Yeah, that's a good question everyone
The bottom line is like as many different things as possible. Yeah
Even flow master that's excellent
With a resident chamber
What are they defining any more of their product? Oh the cops all know
So they chasing us away
Yeah
What's a more timeless modern era design
The last generation lexus gs or c6 c6
I have a question
Is that question set up because those are like particularly not timeless designs
I think the last gen gs is a good car. It is but timeless. No, no that with that shredder grill exactly
We doing that was like the first step in what many of us call a bad front end design
That was the beginning of shredder the timeless gs is the second gen gs the one that where it was the gs for
The gs 400 the four i car that motherfucker is timeless
That one top left the gs 400. Yeah, you want to you want to talk about a fucking exceptional car
No notes that gs 400 that thing was fast as fuck great interior design aged beautifully couldn't kill it
Fabulous car. Yeah the six cylinder ones you could turn into drift cars because they had two jays
But i'm gonna go with fucking neither even flow master
Oh, well i'm go c6 out of the two and i guess c6, but the c6 is a fucking
I think i don't think i think the interior ruins the exterior
I think the i think the exterior profile front is
Fantastic and then you look inside and you go it's basically a c5 and that sucks
Um
So this is a little confusing. Do we think this is weird indie car sell well indie car out d car
okay
Do you think most modern enthusiast cars are doomed to sell well for the first years?
And then die off and be killed
It seems that people want one, but then everyone gets one and then they die off and they don't do a new one right around
It's time for a refresh or a new generation
Killing or neutering the car for the next generation
I mean the problem is is that
People just can't fucking afford cars. Yeah, like
Enthusiasts cars are luxury purchases whether it's a second car or
You know driving a sports car is your main car instead of something more practical
And so when budgets get tight people go i'm not going to get the second car. I'm not gonna
I can't afford to finance it. I'm gonna wait and buy a used one or whatever
um
Sports like i'm i'm writing a column next month for rodentrack about income inequality and how it's fucking up cars
because
We have an in we have the inverse
Right now the car market in terms of sports cars is inverse for what it should be there should be
30 different options for the masses and enthusiasts to buy
reasonably
Excuse me reasonably affordable sports cars instead. There's like five
Cars for everybody and like 30 different choices if you can spend
One to six million dollars on cars, which is like
That's not how it should be that's crazy
There should be fewer and fewer things to choose from as you get higher and higher up the because there's fewer and fewer people to serve
But we have an opposite, you know, this is the what they call the k-shaped economy
We have the opposite of that happening right now and that's fucked up so
Yeah, I mean
The ever you know, everyone wants to build a sports car. So they try to build a sports car
They put Subaru partners with fucking Toyota
Toyota partners with BMW
You know, they there's partnerships because no one could do it on their own
They build a sports car and then it sells in very small numbers because there's a very small number of people
that are in that
What used to be called?
middle-class
That that that can have a second car, but that that second car isn't going to be a McLaren
So yeah, it sucks
Rolex LT larry at King Ranch
I do not purchase things with leather used or new
As I am one of those damn vegans. Do I okay?
What are your thoughts on Porsche race techs interior over leather or overall thoughts on quality synthetics?
So I have race techs in my spider
I like it for the seats. I hate it on the steering wheel and shifter and I'm going to change my steering wheel to leather. Sorry vegan
Having said that I don't hate
synthetic materials. I love
a great cloth right Volvo wool
Rivians
use of cloths with
They're they're not using real leather whatever their leather is is not is and there's a lot of synthetic leathers now that
Look and feel very close to the real stuff
And if you had like a cloth insert with the you know vegan leather exterior, which is made of plastic or whatever
But I think it looks amazing and feels good too. Yeah, most of the of the higher end
Alternative leathers feel really nice now you get a new a Bentley or something and damn now now you're fucking
Serious leather that's a different story
um
But yeah, I don't like I don't like on the steering wheel or the shifter other than that. I do I do like it. Yeah
Koji koji uh in cars where you're stuck
between two wheel sizes
Oh, where you have a choice of two wheel sizes. How do you personally go about picking which size to go with?
Do you downsize for lighter weight and cheaper tires?
Or if you can get the bigger size in a forged wheel where weight isn't issued you opt that
It's a dilemma. I'm struggling with right now. You is actually
sometimes you can
The bigger the 19
Might be lighter than the 18 because that there might be more wheel and less tire
Could could could in some cases be you know, if you have very light wheels for instance sure
You also can fit larger brakes sometimes depending on how the interior
Dimensions of that wheel and that could be beneficial
I I would always opt for smaller wheel more sidewall both from an aesthetics point because I think it looks cool on basically anything
And also because of the roads around here. Yeah, so it depends on where you live
And I think your aesthetic style and what you're doing with the car. Yeah, I I agree
I mean if you have bumpy roads, you want sidewall if your roads are great and you just like the look
you know
Possibly depending on the car
You might get maybe a little bit sharper turn in with the bigger wheel because you'll have less sidewall flex
But you can get that you can get a more aggressive tire. Yeah, you could yeah, you could if that's what you wanted
You could still do that. Yeah
Um, yeah
federal
Investigator pretty good
Uh or single clutch transmissions such as lambos e-gear and ferrari's f1
Considered bad when they were new or where they considered a revolutionary new technology at the time both. Yeah, both
um
Go watch some episodes of top gear go find the original episodes of top gear on youtube or on on
What hulu or a prime or wherever the fuck they are?
um of clarkson
reviewing like the ferrari 360 or the or or the aston vanquish or any
Or the the the mercy lambom
They're just
Sheeting on the gearbox and talking about how terrible it is the whole time and when we were driving those cars
New at the rental company. We fucking hated them. We didn't they would blow
The hydraulic pumps would blow
They they'd roast the clutches like crazy
You had to the original ones like um the ferrari 355 and the vanquish like you were really supposed to like
Tug the paddles and put the car into neutral when you came to a traffic light
You weren't supposed to sit there in first gear the whole time you could like way
Wear out the throw out bearing like that's like that's like silly
um
But I also and I was more of a consumer people not a consumer as a valet
But like my exposure to it was I thought it was exciting because it was different
And it was a cool thing to have paddles on the car. Yeah, and when it kind of worked
It felt cool like the smg now. I know it's super slow
But at the time it was just such an interesting idea that I thought was exciting
But it was it was still bad the idea of it
Was like I can see where you're going with this
Um and at the time it was well this works in race cars because it works
You know if you're flat on the floor board then it was reasonably quick
It was just clunky around town and you go. Okay. Well, this is race car technology
It's not great in the street cars
um
Um
And and I think people at the time just wanted what the race cars had and that was that was fancier plus like
I think I think americans liked automatic. I think americans just like automatic transmissions and wanted to drive automatic transmissions. It was cool. Um
I thought they were shit at the time, but
Don't worry. They're still shitty today
Uh heal a monster greg. What is that? What's the new 9 11 rally gt? This is the 9 11 rally
This is a rally homologation kit for the cup car
oh
So they they're selling a fucking rally car that is awesome
Uh, I need I don't need to have any thoughts. That's awesome. Why would that why that's how is that not awesome? That's awesome
Yeah, I'm trying. I was curious at oh top speed
How can I just get between a better photo is the car road legal?
That's a good question. Yes with rally homologation. The rally gt is road legal car for competition use only that's awesome
Here we go biggest changes
Uh, it's based on the cup car adapted for rallies features a modified roll cage to carry a spare wheel
Rally specific suspension under body protection as well as a co-driver seat
Handbrake misspelled brake you misspelled brake portion. Yeah, and four identical rally tires
Uh, the powerful engine sequential gearbox with modified ratios abs and traction control
That's pretty fucking awesome
How do I drive this?
We must we must drive this. It's street legal. Yeah
Do a target with that. That's very very very sick
Yeah, we have to figure out how to drive this
They're listening. I know but we must that's so cool
Yeah, it'll be a good time. That is all that is right and good in the world
Off-road off-road sports cars are just better
Carbon monocoque and ball torture. It's so good
Uh, that's so funny one of the most boring cars I've ever owned is a sob 93
And yet I couldn't leave the house with at least one sob nerd approaching me to chew my ear off for an hour
That's very funny in your experience. What's the most?
enthusiast
What's the most or most surprising enthusiast nerd magnet car?
Skylines
Yeah, I mean you you can't get out of a gas station because everyone's I'm glad you mentioned that because saris showed me a video this weekend
It's like a tiktok thing
But the the caption it's someone with a red r32 and the caption says
Like quote, you know that girls aren't going to approach you for that car, right?
Just dudes and it's like I know yeah, and it's just footage of dudes giving thumbs up and stuff
And I went wow, it would be really funny if there's I mean, of course there's gay car dudes out there
They're just that's your move if that's crazy
If that's the move and it works, you know only on men it'd be so funny
If that's just we're gonna have to get a fishing lure queer shift and gears we need you to weigh in on this, please
Have and I don't know if they're if these are men men women or or otherwise, but but uh, let us know
Is that a good way for men to attract other men?
Yeah, I think it probably is like that's funny. It's pretty fucking funny. Um nerds. Yeah, I mean skylines. Sure
I mean, so everyone wants to talk to you about your DeLorean
Yeah, but I was gonna say most surprising. I feel like the DeLorean is not so funny. Yeah. Yeah
I mean, it's a lot
Not really people like oh, that's cool, but then they don't really give a shit
The pow I mean Hannah's pow people love
Everybody loves the pow
Hmm
I mean this this in eos, you know is is a fairly regular car and people seem to be into it
I
Think older cars sure does not surprising but like, you know your nsx
It's 20 years old, but you'd probably park it and get approached by lots of enthusiasts
I was very surprised at how much love the nsx would get on the street. It was a lot
Huh
But if you have a really clean
Old cool car like doesn't have to be fancy but like just something, you know, whatever
But that's nice and like a beat over. Uh, it's a super clean stock 240 sx. Sure
You'd get so many people saying what's up and you'll be like money. Yeah, just na whatever coup
um
cardier
Cartier car. Yeah, ll car like cool. Jay. So I guess I'll oh ll cool j ll
Cartier got a cool. Yeah. Yeah got a chance to drive the s 63 e performance for a little over a thousand miles around texas
I found it to be effortlessly fast and the stereo and toys are amazing
However, I expected it to have no road or wind noise supple suspension
And that the seats would guarantee my back would never feel a thing
And I was disappointed in those things. Uh, is my disappointed because am I disappointed because it's an amg
Or because my expectations are off
Zach reviewed this car. I had the exact same expectations and I came away disappointed because
I think adding too much performance to the s class
And I know they want to sell it and make it differentiate it from the lower s classes classes
But I think
To me a big body bends of that should be
A great highway machine, but a comfortable highway machine
So give it all the power in the world give it a thousand pound feet of torque and stuff
But make the suspension soft and make the wheels slightly smaller because on mild cracks in Santa Monica
I mean really like mild, you know joints between smooth concrete it like shook through the car
I think it has 22 inch wheels
And it just felt like they pushed it too far to the twisty track performance envelope
And they completely lost what that car is intended for and will be used for
so
I haven't driven it, but I would want it to ride well. I mean, you know, maybe
Maybe they've just done a little too much amg
You know, they went a little too far got to dial that shit back
um
But you're back, I mean
The seats that your back should did not have good seats. Maybe these were great
Maybe did you I wonder if is there like further touchscreen?
Like if you just fuck with the controls
No, no, like but if you just set the seat using the controls, but you don't dig into the menus to get
You got to get the additional lumbar all that stuff's in the in the
Adjustable bolsters and with Mercedes you can change the lumbar with that graphic not only how pronounced it is
You can make it look like a pregnant woman or a lightly pregnant woman
But you can also move the lumbar up and down and you have to get into those menus to find that stuff
And then you can tailor the seat totally to your body shape, but the ride
You know what your back's going to feel through the tires is not adjustable. Not really
Uh matt's missing coontosh part
Cadillac and Audi is an are now in f1 predictions for who will have a better year
Well, Audi bought sober. Yeah, and Cadillac's making their own team
Yeah, my money would be on Audi and Cadillac racing is so good. I mean when they're in imsa like they are
One of the top three contenders basically every year for but Audi was extremely dominant in endurance racing as well
and I think
I think Audi knows how to endurance race
f1 is not an endurance race
But they know how to race but they're and they bought an existing team that was doing okay
And Cadillac is like everything is from the ground zero and I think that will purpose uh
Have a lot more issues
Yeah, I mean the odds of them coming out of the hole fucking on podium is right probably low
Yeah, they'll learn and they'll catch up, but I think it's they're starting behind right
Um, oh boy. David Tewig the pink one in the stink. So
Uh
It turns out I know like three people in the fc files the newly released released one a cup, uh
the the uh
The brian vickers and sarah kellen thing goes back like 11 years to when me and spike hosted that tv show together
with brian vickers and his like wife was around
And she was just brian's wife and he was just a retired nascar driver
And we were you know, she was just hanging out. So we were talking about her
What do you do interior designer? Okay, you like cars?
What do you drive a ferrari 5 9 9? It's like what this girl was like
Maybe in her late 20s or early 30s and like you you drive a ferrari 5 9 9 and she's like yeah
I have a Bentley or something something else expensive and I was like
You're interiors your interior designer like
okay, but like
Something was like off and like later spike was like doing some googling and like found out then like that this girl
his his wife was like
Galeen Maxwell's like number two like recruiter. Oh really? I did not know this was in 2015
This was in 2015 and me and spike have been talking about this for years for years
And every time there's been a tidbit about her name was Sarah kellen or was is
I don't think she's ever been charged with anything. Her name's come up a million fucking times
I don't know why it's like a bombshell
That all of a sudden brian vickers is was
Involved because he's married to her. So like of course his name is going to be in there fucking somewhere
I haven't seen either of them since 2015 by the way
Um, and then yeah, tia ratias in there too. That's not great
Um
You know, I I don't know him this guy that well. He came on the show. He's a doctor. He's uh, pretty well known
He's a huge fan of airton senna and is a very fast racing driver also
and uh
Yep in the epsions
There's not he's not I mean he
There isn't like I know what he's because so I pull up this story. This is very recent
There isn't anything overtly criminal that that I that I saw okay, and I I didn't spend a lot of time on this
But like there's just there's just emails back and forth of two people that are clearly friends
Like right so vickers forwarded, uh, a sexually explicit. This is from us today
He forwarded a sexually explicit email to epsions
with a story about, uh
Uh someone who gets rejected by a princess and then oh a prince that gets rejected. Um, so he's in there for that
Yeah, and then I was trying to find information on sarah kellen
Um, well, she's right. I mean she's right there vickers ex-wife sarah kellen blah blah blah and there's two two links right there
Of her in that paragraph that you're on right there
Down down down one of those two. Oh
Okay. Oh, yeah, she was accused of recruiting. Yeah, I mean what she sound yeah guilty. I don't know
I don't I don't actually know if she was tried, but she's certainly uh, you know got it definitely been around
Let's just say and oh the thing that that uh
spike found
Back in the day
The address of her office for her interior design business. It was in a fucking building epsions
Like it was at epsions like building right so was she doing any interior design or being paid for that by doing other things
With driving around a ferrari 599 at 20 something
So, yeah, and then you know peter's in there too fucking
I I nothing like overt but like, you know friendly emails between friends
I mean I said in the car great like it's not great. I I would be I would feel gutted if my name showed up and it was like
Epsi was hit by valet zack clatman while at the chop house in boulder in 2007
Yeah, yeah, and it was like I crashed a car into him or something like that even then you know
No, Thaddeus was like don't worry. The only farah in there is a hotel in morocco. I was like, whoa
Yeah, all right, but man fucking everybody knew epstein. I guess, huh? It seems like
Seems like all the rich people
On all sides of the fucking political spectrum. I think it really does really matter
How you knew this person because if they were putting themselves in these in rich people parties
And you were also going to the not the island parties. I'm saying, you know, yeah, the like the the charity parties or whatever
There's a house in the room doing high society stuff. Okay, but the details do matter. So, yeah
Yeah, go read the the complaint line logs if you're listening to this and you haven't seen them because those are
Disgusting and that's yeah where like the real story. I think is the the extent of my
Wanting to read about the epstein files. I watch a coffee zilla. Yeah, I like I love me some coffee zilla
The latest video from the other day about there was like two days ago or whatever about this was great
But uh, yeah, no not uh, not so great that peter was
I mean
Not great. So I mean one of my I don't know what the fuck I was supposed to say
I'm gonna help the guy a couple times. We didn't do anything weird
We looked at cars and a talked about Senna talked about air and Senna. Yeah. Yeah
um
Major depreciation disorder says, uh, lots of people say certain cars hold value better than they should
But have you seen examples of cars that depreciate badly even though they shouldn't? Uh, sure
Sure, there are cars that depreciate faster than they should
Well, how do we define like should or shouldn't it's like we love them because they're exciting
But they depreciate, you know because they made a ton of them
Yeah, and it's like oh that car we think that car is worth more than x
But it's falling to that value because there's a bunch of them out there or because they fall apart and they suck
You need to change the we need to change the wording because it's not cars that depreciate badly even though they shouldn't
It should be cars that depreciate badly even though they're fundamentally good cars
You know what I mean? Because like sometimes a car depreciates badly because it's an unreliable piece of shit
Sometimes the car depreciates badly because they just built too many right like that's that's corvettes
I mean that's i'm literally counting on that
I am counting on corvette zr ones to get so cheap that I can buy one as a daily beater
The fact that zero sixes are already come down. They're already there, you know hugely in price and regular as
c7s
Like a stingray is like a 55 thousand dollar car right now with pretty relatively low miles. So like
You can always count on gm to make one more car than they should have and so um, yeah, that's a good example. Yeah
Granny shifted not double clutching
Like you should would you rather be a moderately successful racing driver think mid-tier indie car
Or have the careers you currently have I'd rather have the career I currently have
I think something that isn't talked about but if you listen to
Dinner with racers a lot of the racers they talk to they talk about the hustle required by
a
Racing driver below the top top tier the hustle
They have to put in to get sponsors for everything for every year is crazy
I mean all of them have the same story of
Knocking on 100 doors when they're getting started even when they're winning a couple things or doing well
They have to go sell themselves all the time and that just seems for me that would be
Like impossible. Mm-hmm. That'd be really hard not to mention you don't get to drive everything you drive one thing and
Yeah, it might suck that I mean what if you're you know
What if the car you have is a piece of shit or the team you're in is a piece of shit?
But you need them, you know like belly is that story like the cars his indie car was this engine from last last generation
It wasn't competitive and then they kept exploding so you could get stuck with that
Yeah
Uh major depreciation disorder when the sti was discontinued. I thought jack
Can you can you check this? Uh, so it's some some sold listings on cars and bids when when the sti was discontinued
I thought it would hold value or possibly appreciate
Looking at bat and cars and bids. I've seen many go for underwhelming figures
In some cases
WRX's hold value better. Why does nobody seem to care about stis?
interesting question
Part of it is that subaru
Hasn't really done anything to make younger people excited about stis. You don't know me about subarus like they don't have a real
Like they're not rallying right now
Let's see. Let's go. Okay. Hang on. Let's go for uh, can we
Results let's go for
Uh, recent sold for so there's a type r.a
13,300 miles 40,000
2016 one owner
15,000. I mean
I would say
1200 well, I would say this they don't really appear to be
Collectible they appear to be fun cars to drive
that
You know will hold
Value sort of well to a point. Wow. Look at me. This is 10,000 miles on a car. That's 11 years old
Yeah, and it's 25 grand. Yeah, I mean that's not great. That is so low. It's a thousand miles a year less
And I mean actually look that would be that if you if that sale went through which it doesn't look like it did
But that would be a good buy
A 10,000 mile sti for 25 grand
Well, then but then we get anything is the mileage too low where you need to fix things because it wasn't driven enough
I think there's enough miles. I think I think a thousand miles a year is enough
Miles that you don't have to fix things from not from lack of use
I'd have to look at the production numbers. I think for me and
A lot of it is that the car's performance
Hasn't really hasn't changed drastically enough
So you have you don't just have the supply of like the most recent generation
You have the supply of effectively 0 4 10 now
And they all make almost the same horsepower
The transmissions I think are the same. It's a good six speed
So they if it ain't broke don't fix it and they don't break so they don't have to change it
But you go, okay. Well, basically you're picking an appearance package. Which one do you like the best?
But I think that means the supply number is really high
And so they're not that collectible and I think they get driven a lot, which is good
it and also like they have
Like they have a floor
You know like right here like
Yeah, like like like a running driving non salvage one is always going to be worth like 15 16 grand, right?
So
You know
You can use that number of knowing where the floor is to buy one used and enjoy
You know, yeah going on. Hey, well if I pay
25 000 for
That that 10 year old one, you know, I could put 100 000 miles on it and as long as I don't crash it or otherwise break it
I'm only going to lose, you know, whatever 8 000 bucks in depreciation. Yeah, so it's not going to cost me anything to buy
So all these collectible ones are fucking in the wrapper, right? Those are those are all
Or or like a 22 b or something but like pretty much, you know, so so
They're just not investment grade cars, which is okay. It means buy drive and enjoy
It also looks like
The ones that are selling for more money is according to bat are the you know, oh four to oh sixes
With like and hot guy with low miles. Yeah, but anything that's newer than that
That's when you're getting even though and that one's when you're getting into like the 20s in the 30s. Yeah
Uh, yeah, I mean those does oh four to oh six cars are oh four to seven
I mean those are really iconic. Yeah cars and so I I'm not sure the
Like if you said to me if you said to me matt, what does a 2005
STi look like I go well it has these headlights and this wing
If you said what's a 2016 look like compared to a 2014 like I probably I couldn't really tell you
Uh, I couldn't I think we kind of stopped paying attention to them and um
Yeah, because that was after the egg that was after the the hatchback. Yeah, yeah
Queer shift and gears says
Thoughts on the car community using delete as a verb or noun for removing or swapping something. Where did it come from?
um
I mean you go back to like the 60s and you could have
A air conditioning delete or or radio delete packages for muscle cars and shit
Definitely. I think what what they say is I guess on the e 500 discussion
You said we're deleting the wood trim and swapping it with all wood. So that's just like
Maybe just you know, I mean language changes. It evolves a lot as time goes on
But I think I literally said it like that though. That's me speaking very swappily. Yeah, we're not deleting. We're swap
We're changing. We're changing wood to metal. I think delete mostly means I didn't choose this option that was available
You know if like the uh, no delete is a pro is not just not getting an option
It's there are options to remove it. Yeah. Yeah, that's delete
You're you're selecting to take away the thing that was included. Correct. Like you could get like in the gt4
You could get air conditioning delete things like that
um
Okay, when
Uh bay baymobile says when equipped with an automatic gearbox the mazda rx8 cannot reach 7 000 rpm
In order to open an intake valve
That would otherwise be able to open with a car equipped with a manual because the red line is higher
This among other things caused engines to fail and sully the reputation of the car
Have there been other cars that when equipped with certain options drastically change reliability of that car
Oh, yeah, that's a pretty unique situation. No for sure. I mean, there's like for it like like this
in this
Descript like if you had a car that had a shitty automatic transmission
Well, yeah, if you got the automatic transmission, it would be worse than if you got the manual, which was fine
Right. Well, the auto is the thing that breaks. This is interesting because the the
Transmission selected is causing engines to fail versus the transmission failing
Well, we just we just talked about this the f1 pumps in the single clutch gearboxes like of a stick shift ferrari 360
Is drastically more reliable
When it's driven properly and not smoke the clutch than a fucking
A paddle-shifted one way more reliable
But not because the gearbox ruins the engine. It's because the gearbox isn't reliable. You know, so
those for sure
The wranglers 4 by e any any chrysler hybrid or whatever stilantis hybrid product for sure
Yeah, I mean over complicating usually leads to a reduction in reliability, right? Yeah
The back in the day the Cadillac, uh cylinder deactivation from the 80s
Oh, because anyway the v8 642 or whatever it was. I think v8 64 it was called
It was essentially cylinder deactivation. It was just a mess. Wasn't that happening with an ls generation like it because it
Deactivates you're not getting that wash the gasoline cleaning off the cylinders and stuff. It could have been. Yeah, not not sure
um
Okay
Uh, let's see koji koji also says it seems that the latest trend in bmw track cars is swapping in the b48 turbo four cylinder
Which I think was in like the 230 and bmw
Uh shops are doing this swap and a tune into e 36's and getting cars that put down
Faster track times than the cars equipped with s 54s and ls's lighter weight better chassis balance. Okay
Uh, if you were one of the people tracking their older bmw and chasing faster lap times, would you do this?
I don't I don't see why not if it actually worked
This makes total sense if all I'm chasing is lap times
Then you will always go for the thing that will make you faster
Yeah reduce weight move the weight balance back sure liability stays the same power especially with
Power and bop and all these different class rules then you go. Okay automatic gearbox. Am I hitting the horsepower number that we're allowed to have?
Yes, so if I can do that with less weight and less consumption
And better weight balance the answer is yes, and if you can literally do the whole powertrain like that b 48 with the zf
Eight speed automatic gearbox like I just did a fucking endurance race with that gearbox
I will absolutely race with that gearbox. That is a
Excellent automatic transmission for racing like does exactly what it's fucking told
So if I was doing it, I would actually ditch the stick also and take the automatic. Yeah
Fast back to the future
Assuming it can be done oem and has good margins
Is there a market for a shop that creates and sells cross trek converted stis?
Are you turning an sti into a cross trek or a cross trek into an sti? That's a very good question
I assumed it would be swapping stuff sti stuff into the cross. Well
Cross trek converted
No, I think it would be you're right. That's that direction
So you're just lifting an sti lifting an sti. Well, there's that market truly exists. That's called rally suspension
Yeah, and that's much simpler than swapping sti parts into a cross trek probably
But but I don't know who who the let's say a cross trek is a 35 000 car. I don't I don't know
Let's say an sti
Well, it is a 50 000 car
right
So are you gonna get somebody?
Who really wants to spend like 75 000 dollars on a Subaru?
I I don't think you are the market's very small for this kind of thing. Yeah
And in in either direction if you want to make a cross trek faster
There's probably cheaper ways to do it. Just put a turbo a small one on that thing
Or maybe you can just swap the engine but to make a full sti version of cross trek
With you know trans and fitment and all that stuff would probably be tough and expensive
Yeah, I blow horns. Why are many automotive news outlets referring to an upcoming 9 11 gt car?
That's been tested recently as a gt3 rs claiming it's going turbo as opposed to na for the next gen isn't it obviously a gt2 rs testing
I think you're right. I think all these people are saying the next gen gt3 rs is going turbo to get people to click on their
Shit when in reality the spy shots are very obviously a gt2 rs the question for me
Is is the gt2 rs going to be hybrid?
Or will it be just the twin
Like last generation twin turbo or a juiced up version of the three liter?
Uh, which we know can make big power. So that's really the question for me
It is also possible that the next gen gt car
gt3 rs might have to be
Uh turbocharged like it or it might have to have a hybrid assist system in it
Um or have something like i'm not sure how long they can keep building that engine
I think they're gonna try but I don't know if they can yeah
I think a lot of people when these changes happen
They'll say why is Porsche or why is car company doing this and the answer is almost always not because they want to because they have to
Uh focus st lover. What would you consider to be the best car for the snow under 35k?
No modifications
I mean whichever one you can just get snow tires from the factory that I get like the best car in the snow
By the way, we live in los angeles. I have a very limited
amount of time to drive cars and snow like I
Testing cars and snow is a real treat. I love doing it. But like that doesn't happen here. So
but like
And all any all-wheel drive car
Let's let's game it out. It'll probably be a Subaru
My my thought went to outback of some kind
preferably like the last gen where they're a little bit smaller than uh
You know like essentially like a cross track or a will it like
Has the it has it has all-wheel drive that's longitudinal not haldex based so there's a real
Transfer case real longitudinal, you know all-wheel drive and and you just put good tires on that
Yeah, I think I think cross track with snow tires is the answer because you have ground clearance
You have a simple engine. It's not turbocharged
And the the diff situation is simpler than some of the front-wheel drive based cars. So
Elderly woman behind the wheel of a small car
Yeah, you recently said that no production cars have ever really scared you. What about the opposite?
Have car have any cars just been way too easy to drive at the limit?
GT Rs
GT Rs are boring. Yeah, our 35 GT Rs are boring
Yeah, now the limits have gotten higher with cars like that because its power's gone up. So, you know a new
9-11 turbo s
Which is what the GT are competed with when it came out is so fast the limits the
Kinetic energy and the momentum like if you lose it at that speed the speeds capable would be pretty dangerous
Yeah, so it's gotten harder, but um, usually things that have too much tire and not enough horsepower are also very easy to drive
I mean odd is pretty easy to drive at the limit
Yeah, I mean that way, but there there's yeah, there's cars with more tire than power super brz ts
Sure, that thing that thing. Yeah sticky tightly sprung. Yeah, no guts
um
gr
Corollas are really easy to drive at the limit particularly the automatic transmission equipped ones there
You could fucking lap and lap and lap and lap and lap like the golf are I mean
I the golf are is an incredibly competent car that is not particularly exciting you I could get to
Within a quarter second a lap of what that car could ever possibly do on like lap three
And now what do I learn? You know, so that's
That's kind of like where that those types of cars could be like boring is on a track because on a road
Well, every the scenery changes, you know
So every every corner is a little bit of a new adventure
But on a track where you have the same 12 corners over and over and you can figure out what a car can do like right quick
Now you're just now you're boring
um
Maybe uh blue did that one. Oh, yeah that yeah, uh blue shoes and blue crews
I
Thinking about that combination that would be a good, uh, that would be a good like only fans channel
Like for like a for like a couple a couple when it was like getting giving road head constantly
Yep, for a while. Remember there was like when fsd like first came out. There was a bunch of like fsd porn
Yep, i'm glad they've stopped doing that
Uh thoughts on the discontinuation of the model s and x that is um the x
I I I could see but what's crazy is
That they don't like have a new one like there's no
They're just canceling this car these two cars and it's not like there's
They're replacing them with other cars
Like they're actually talking about building this dumb fucking robot thing
What are we what are we doing right? They say they're gonna shift production at the fremont factory from model s and x to robots
To the optimist robots and whatnot that are very real and that we're all gonna fucking have
for sure
That is just crazy to me. I wonder what I don't think the x has been selling well for a long time
Yeah, so getting rid of that makes sense. I am curious. I'll look it up while you chat like what the model s sales have done
Or has the x have the x. Um, sorry have the three and the y
Eclipse the s so much the s is such an old car and it's still expensive the x is fucking stupid, but
To not have replacements
Very true. That is a unique thing that most of our companies don't do. That is crazy, you know
And and and not only that I mean they they we know for a fact they don't really have any next gen
Plans for for model y or model three either
They're
I guess they don't want to build cars anymore. I mean it turns out that like
You know most
Shocking that most of elan's bullshit was fucking bullshit because
because this
You know, it was supposed to
It was supposed to make transportation
Fucking greener. It was that was gonna be the thing and now they've they've rolled back all these environmental fucking regulations
Thanks to the fucking guy that elan effectively guaranteed got into office
And now tesla's just not going to build cars anymore. It's weird according to good car back car dot net the annual sales for the model s
peaked at 90,000 in 2022 although they were going down 90,000. That's weird. That's when um,
That's when the plaid came out. Okay. That was the place hold a lot of plaids, but since then
Uh, it's 26,000 in 23 15,024 9,025. So pretty steep decline
Geez, I mean that's falling
Really fast. Yeah, so they had their time kind of the early uh teens selling in the 20s
That's not that many. I mean the average
I mean if you get rid of the 90, I mean it's like 22,000 a year
So I think I think the three and the white but it is weird
I get it getting rid of sedans fords done that but to get rid of your biggest largest suv
Well, and you're and not and not have a fucking is something I don't think another car company would do
That's crazy. I mean
They're going so hard at this ai thing. I mean it it
Either it's spectacularly successful and regular people are deeply fucked
Or it goes spectacularly wrong
And regular people will get to laugh in five minutes before realizing that in the entire economy was propped up on this
And we're all deeply fucked
Propped up on the I think well, I mean, yes, that that would hurt the mag 7 and you know
SPY and all that stuff
I think the bigger question is if the robots don't work out for him in terms of manufacturing
Does tesla crater down to being you know valued like what a car company should be valued at and if they succeed
Does he actually have an army of robots to do his bidding?
I mean first off they will not there's there are already
Domestic robots. I have like four of them in my kitchen right now
I have a dishwasher a washing machine the dryer a fucking automatic coffee maker
I have all kinds of robots that do things already
They're not shaped like people because they'd be worse at their job if they were shaped like fucking people
Yeah, car companies already use robots to do specialized things
Yeah, but a human is more versatile in skills than something bolted to the ground that can like move a thing or weld a thing
But it's like so bad at things it is it's so bad at doing things. Yeah like
Like it's like you the reason our eyes are good is because they're connected to our brain
The reason our fucking our hands can do things is because they're all connected to our brain without an actual human brain
You fucking can't do any of this shit
Well, it depends on what you program it to do. I mean computers can a general AI robot is what he's trying to sell
Yeah, you can't that's not a thing. You can't have that
It's I don't I feel like I'm fucking and taking crazy pills
Everyone's like when he has robots like what the fuck do you mean when he uh, they're this is not real falling you around
And doing your dishes for you. Yeah, dude. None of this is real
uh
Collin sieb uh is reading the power of now
Have the lessons from the book stuck or faded in your daily life
The only thing that sticks is to be an observer of yourself
I read this book like three years ago. And so it's like
it's essentially like
If you're if you're having thoughts negative thoughts about yourself
The idea is that you
Step out and become an observer of that and go, huh. I'm having those thoughts
and you know like
and and to
Observe yourself having the thoughts and sort of become that
separate from it
The first half of the power now is really good
Then the second half it really veers into jesus land and you can let that shit go
But um, if you have an overactive brain, you can't turn it off. That's a good place to start
um
My cat's name is bethany. Hi bethany
Uh, when you're on a road trip, what gas station chains do you prefer to stop at if it's available? Um
I don't really give a shit unless it's
Unless it's like not a brand name of gas like I try not to stop at gas. I've never heard of
um
I like a good store though. I like a good selection at a store
You know, I like I like a
I like a big travel stop given the choice, but I don't I don't really care that much
My needs are pretty small. Yeah, it's like water
caffeine if they have the tea great, uh, and then
One one quest bar and I'm fine. Yeah, I mean, I'm not I don't poop at gas stations unless it's an emergency
And I don't like to roll like that. I prepare for my road trips
My road trip really begins about an hour before I get on the road
There's a there's a there's a poop and then there's a safety poop, you know
But that means it does change with wifely presence like I you know and sarah
She'll she'll go to the bathroom at the gas station bathroom and she'll come out and be like that was gnarly
Yeah, it she'll go you are so lucky that you don't have to do that. Yeah, but if you don't there's no gas station
Well, gas station bathroom reviews is not an app. I've come across in order to a month. It's called grinder. Yeah, it probably is
Um, the only things I don't like are the super super tiny gas station where they have like eight drinks and two chips
You know, it's just and it's what they have room for. Yeah, I try to avoid those
Yeah, I
It's hard it's hard to tell but it's hard to tell from outside
But I really don't like it when you go especially in the midwest or the south to a really big gas station store
It's fucking big
No sparkling water
They'll have like 30 club soda 30 kinds. No, they don't even have that shit
They have no bubbly water in this bitch. They'll like 25 kinds of regular water flavor, but no bubbles. Come on guys
Get with a fucking program
um, johnny e v gearberman of all of the
Uh
Pedestrian rentals or loners you drove in 2025. What was the top five? I don't have five regular cars
Yeah, we rented a chrysler pacifica
Those are good for racing. That was that was good. I had a kia carnival
I rented in texas
I didn't like driving it as much as I liked the pacifica to be honest with you
Um
I drove a ram
1500 that my
Step dad-in-law owns and that was nice. It sounds good. Yeah good truck. Sure. I drove a
What else have I driven I liked my dad's t lexus tx. I saw I've seen a couple around here
Yeah, my dad's lexus tx. I like I like a lot. That's pretty cool. I think that's a good one
Um
We have a
Privileged journalist lifestyle truly like we drive we drive the sporty stuff
Yeah, and when we travel we're usually driving press cars or we're there to drive something else
So there's not a lot of like rentals or like regular ass cars coming through. Yep
um
Uh, christ yeah helps you christ. Well, I got we have to be done too christ from colorados as why do some
factory facturers
Not put emphasis on the tactile feel of the paddle shifters
It should feel like pulling the trigger on a gun mechanical and crisp
Some of them feel like you're pushing a button on a $15 coffee maker
I don't think very many people use the shift paddles
and I think that if
Uh, if if they want something to cheap out on
Having that mechanism you're describing
That could bring the cost of that shifter paddle from 15 cents to 40 cents and that could be
Actsed out of any meeting. I mean even Porsche
Porsche has multiple shifter paddles
You know, if you get a if you get a macan or something and has the paddles
That will feel different from a gt's three paddles
And then the gt3 rs has the the optional super clicky paddles like there's an optional
Crazy paddle set for the gt3 rs. That's like out of the race car. That's crazy, but it costs like real money
um
I mean, so why?
Because money because it's just an easy thing to cheap out on and they don't think very many people are going to use them
If I I was just driving the the corvette ira and had carbon paddles
I have to think carbon paddles feel kind of cheap. I don't think they feel that good. They feel like plastic
But but they're carbon. They're not plastics. I don't know
um
Okay, wait mustang geek says the re uh regarding the c8 vets rear view mirror screen
Have you considered that a rear view screen lacks a traditional mirrors?
depth perception because it's literally a 2d device I
I mean, yes, I am aware of that but that's not
That's not what I was talking about what I was talking about was the clarity of the image
Not the depth perception. I wasn't complaining about that. I was saying that I could I could see in my digital rear view mirror
That there's five cars behind me in the other lane. I can see five cars
Whereas in I then look in the side view mirror, which is real glass and I go that's a bmw3 series a forward explorer
Anise on versa. I'm not I'm not talking depth perception. I was talking about the clarity of the image and being able to identify what's there
um now the question
Do you think that rear view screens like yoke steering wheels sound like a great idea in theory?
But in practice expose massive shortcomings for actual driving
I do and I think that's a good way to put it
But I don't think it's a hundred percent right because I think it there are benefits
It's not all negative
Like there's there are certain things about the camera
Like the performance in low light and the fact that it's not it's independent of your window being dirty
You can change the the field of view of that camera a little bit to suit your yourself
The way that adjusting a mirror wouldn't produce the same result
So there are some benefits, but I just think there's also some very interesting drawbacks. It's not a win-win
Uh, can you scroll down? Yeah, some people have speculated like I looked up
How much what the resolution of the human eye would be if you could measure it like that
In one way of measuring it would be like 12,000 by 12,000 for a picture
So that's obviously much higher resolution. Yeah way bigger way beyond 4k. Yeah
um
um
By turbo curious
History has many examples of car companies that tried and failed in america
Including most of the french ones. What car brands currently not doing business in the u.s. Could succeed here
Oh b yd easy. Yeah b yd
And it's an appliance that drives people around and they don't have weird unpronounceable names
It's just three letters american can americans can pronounce
They would undercut everybody
I mean people would be like wait a minute what if they were priced here the way they are in other places
It would undercut everyone. Yeah always depends on tariff adjustment. Sure
um
I've not read this. I've I some I mean I appreciate that you're asking about a bill, but I don't under I didn't read it
I don't know it is um
um
Tiny japanese cobra last question then we're done says not everything needs to be fast to be cool
What cars have the highest dollar to horsepower ratio?
Uh crazy 21 window volkswagen buses come to mind at 200,000 for 50 horsepower
How far back you want to go?
I mean that car we drove in the fucking veteran run was like a 250,000 car. I think it made six horsepower
Yeah, I mean if you go old and collectible and super historic
What would a boat a bends patent motor wagon cost at auction millions and millions of dollars and it makes like a half of a horsepower
So it's just like old go just keep going old and you'll you'll end up in something that cost the first
Yeah, then first mercedes electric wagon thing. That's not what you're talking about
Yeah, no like the patent motor wagon a little three-wheeled fucking thing with the big flywheel you started with like that's like a horsepower
Were their first electric car that mrs. Ben's drove mrs. Ben's drove like that would be
Yeah, 800 million dollars if you could find it. Yeah, something historically significant
You know thing that makes two horsepower is probably it. Yeah
Thanks everybody good show today. Thank you to our patrons for such good questions
Thank you to everyone else for playing along with us
If you want to join the fun patreon.com slash the smoking tire podcast and we'll see you back here in a couple of days
Bye
About this episode
Zach and Matt dive into their off-roading experience with the INEOS Grenadier, discussing its rugged design and unique steering characteristics. They compare it to other SUVs, highlighting its boxy, truck-like feel and the challenges of its recirculating ball steering. The duo also touches on the recent news of Elon Musk's decision to halt production of the Model S and X, and a proposal for an Indy car race at the National Mall. Their lively banter includes personal anecdotes from a busy cars and coffee event, making for an engaging listen.
air down
alignment
body on frame
cars and coffee
full compression
full droop
Ineos
lock to lock
low range
off-roading vehicle
Acura NSX
Aston Martin Vanquish
BMW 2 Series
BMW 3 Series
BMW 5 Series
BMW M3
BMW M5
BMW M Coupe (E36)
Bugatti Veyron
Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Corvette
Chrysler Pacifica
Ferrari 308 GTS
Ford Bronco
Ford Bronco Sport
Ford Escape
Ford Explorer
Ford F-150
Ford GT
Ford Model T
Ford Mustang
Ford Ranger
Honda S800C
Hyundai Elantra
Ineos Grenadier
Ineos Quartermaster
Jeep Gladiator
Jeep Wrangler
Land Rover Range Rover
Mazda MX-5 / Miata
Mazda RX-8
Mercedes-Benz G-Class
Mini Cooper
Nissan Skyline
Porsche 911
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Cayenne
Porsche Macan
Rivian R1T
Subaru Outback
Subaru WRX
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model X
Tesla Model Y
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Corolla
Toyota Land Cruiser
Toyota Supra
Volkswagen Beetle
Volkswagen Bus
Volkswagen Eos
Volvo P1800
Original notes
Matt Farah and Zack Klapman went off-roading in the new 2026 INEOS Grenadier Station Wagon Trialmaster and it almost went very wrong; a full review of the INEOS and its competitors; Tesla is ending production of the Model S and X, so we talk about why and what it means for the future; Washington D.C. is going to have an INDY street race apparently; and we answer 50 questions from our Patreon members, including:
- Would we rather be mid-tier racing drivers or have our current jobs?
- Which supercar should have had a diesel engine?
- Miata RF or soft-top?
- Best M5: E90 M5 or E90 M3?
- Most enthusiast-magnet nerd car?
- Are "classic" tires worth the price for my older car?
- Which cars does every enthusiast need to drive?
- More timeless design: Lexus GS or C6 Corvette?
- Do we like bigger wheels? When?
- Were early paddle-shifted transmissions cool when they came out?
- That new Porsche Rally GT
- Why does the S63 AMG feel like too much AMG and not enough S?
- F1 2026: Audi vs Cadillac. Thoughts?
- Which cars depreciate TOO fast?
- Why don't STIs hold value?
- Options that made cars unreliable
- Would you always choose a lighter engine in a race car?
- Foreign car brands that would work here
- And many more!
Recorded February 2, 2026
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The Smoking Tire
Zack Klapman, Matt Farah
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120:46