We Almost Rolled the INEOS Wagon

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Alright folks on this show Zach and I have had a go in the inniose

Grenadier did a little bit of off-roading and we go over that plus hair furor wants to have an Indy car race at the

National Mall in Washington and

Elon has decided to

Not make cars anymore

Canceling the Model X and S with no replacement all this and more. It's the smoking tire podcast. Let's go

Fuck was I even doing this weekend went to Manhattan Beach cars and coffee, which was good. It was so busy place was like

Over-full by it's supposed to start at 8 I get there at 735 and the place is like blown out now if I didn't

Have a little

Position of authority. Maybe I was in I get a little front rosies, you know, just just nice

They put me next to in between a singer and a Ford GT pink car. It was okay. Wow

Where do they hold that one? Is it in the parking lot? No, it's at the point of the fucking fancy sort of mall, okay?

And right at the so it's Manhattan Beach cars and coffee now technically it's in El Segundo

But it's direct across the street would be Manhattan Beach

It's on the north side of Rosecrans Avenue the south side of Rosecrans Avenue is Manhattan Beach

I'd pull the same trick. I cannot throw a stone in that glass house with this is West Side collector car storage Playa Vista

Technically, it's Culver City Playa Vista's across

This is 50 yards away

It's still why do my pants feel so tight right now

These are I you know, I'm doing I had to get new pants. It's a good thing means you're a little less fat new pants and

So I got the same

Pants Polo Ralph Lauren jeans in like different levels of like stretch. Mm-hmm. These are the fucking no stretch

Oh, yeah, these are these are hard as a rock. Yeah, I'm not sure I have how often I'm supposed to wash these

It's probably not that off. It's not they did some scientists did a test for like jeans that were worn for like months straight

And yeah, they're washed and they had the same bacteria content. Yeah, right pretty amazing. They could get smelly

I think I right how much you fart maybe I

Mean dude if you're an active person and wearing a fucking pair of jeans for five six days in a row

You sweat you're telling me like jeans if you if you're in Florida in

Anytime and it's humid. Yeah, your jeans are gonna smell much more quickly

The move I was taught was if you put your jeans in the freezer

It freezes all the bacteria gets rid of all the smells, but it's not like a wash doesn't damage the jeans, right?

Yeah washing allegedly does I mean I guess yeah, I would say I wash my jeans probably every

Three to five wares. I wash them

We'll see but these don't stretch so they're riding up on my fucking it's weird

I wear those prana pants all the time that stretch and now I'm wearing regular jeans today and the same thing

They get very very very different to the problems. We deal with oh, man

It's like it's like going barefoot, you know on you're on a beach somewhere for a vacation

You know, you don't wear real shoes for like five days

This is gonna happen when we go on the boat

Yeah, and and then you put sneakers back on and even if they're the most comfortable NB's or what you're like

Oh my god, my foot is like in this coffin. Yeah, so weird

When I go on the long road trip scouts for road and track

I wear like fucking Lulu lemon pants because it's just me sitting in a car

Why would I wear you know, but then you put on the jeans like what the fuck is this torture device that has been invented?

Yeah

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Zach and I are dirty this morning because we spent it on the mountain with the new and improved

Ineos

grenadier and

Ineos has a boy do they have a name scheming that really takes some learning so

The Ineos is the is the manufacturer the grenadier is the model line

The grenadier is then broken down into

Station wagon, which is the SUV

That that vaguely resembles resembles I mean and vaguely a lot resembles a defender 110. Yeah, and then there's the

Quartermaster, which is the pickup truck and that thing is like long like like a Jeep gladiator

Yes, it's it's picture Jeep gladiator, but that that's the that's the one, you know, I've only ever seen one

We see I think we have many

We have a higher percentage of grenadiers on the streets of Los Angeles than most other places in the country. Yeah, I agree

Ryan from Ineos I had lunch with before I got this thing. He said Texas is the biggest market, which doesn't surprise me

This is a real

fucking

Outside of Dallas kind of car sure and especially if you have a dirt road to your house

It helps justify having an off-roading vehicle and like it's more it's more of a truck state

You know we're area than Los Angeles is yeah, so and this thing is trucky. This is of this is the

Possibly the truckiest feeling SUV, you know on the market today

It's it's ladder frame, you know, it's a body-on-frame thing solid axles old school

And it's it's a it's a square. It's a it's fucking boxy and it has recirculating ball steering

Which I thought had completely gone the way of the dodo in passenger vehicles, but I'm bringing it back

Does the Wrangler not still use it? I don't think so. I think the Wrangler finally got I think the Wrangler finally got it

Didn't it or no?

The Bronco has rack and pinion the Bronco having rack and pinion

Eliminates in my opinion any valid argument for having recirculating ball steering basically if you don't know what I'm talking about

rack and pinion steering

Makes SUVs steer more like cars. It's a it's a bit of a sharper turning ratio

More like a car has than a truck has

Whereas the the grenadier has recirculating ball steering, which means a lot of turns lock-to-lock and a lot of

sort of dead big dead zone in the center followed by a

Fairly abrupt movement once you try to once you notch it one way or the other

You know I mean yeah, you described it in better words than that earlier

Well the off-center it was very light for about an inch and then as soon as you got to the point of friction

It felt like you know Camaro's in sport mode. The weight was was a more of a shelf than a ramp

Yeah, the Wrangler does still use a ball steering, which is why I totally forgot this the Bronco one of the big deals

Is that it has rack and pinion so that's part of why it's a little easier to drive on a while since I drove a Wrangler

Sorry, but

Now that I would think about it

I remember when we drove all the Broncos were like yes, this is better because it steers better. Yes, here's yeah

Yeah, yeah, okay, so so then if you're familiar with Wrangler, then this I guess will be kind of like that

but I think

something about the

That the recirculating ball steering combined with the shape and position of the steering wheel in this vehicle

Makes it like extra weird the steering wheel is like almost a sports car sized steering wheel

It has two spokes. We've got a photo of it some somewhere. You have an interior photo handy there

Yeah, it's got two spokes that come out at nine and three

Kind of tough to tell which way is up on the steering wheel sometimes. Yes

And and and it's it's it's the kind of wheel you'd see like this wheel would be right at home in a mini Cooper

Yeah, or if you had 500, you know something something kind of funky like yeah, let's sit row and hatchback

Um

So when you combine this small thick rim steering wheel with a ton of turns lock-to-lock

And and quite a bit of weight. It is a fairly heavy steering

It just it it to me presents an odd experience for a vehicle

That is for most people in America going to be driven on the street on tarmac most of the time

Yeah, like there's a lot of pushback on the wheel and it it could be the alignment. It could be

You know, you have pretty big wheels and tires

But it's just as you when you turn it you're getting a lot of force back on it

Yeah, so they feel but it's pushing those wheels to go straight again. Yeah, so the steering as you turn in this is better

The quarter master. I think you had to like hold it in the turn

So it was it was lose your feeling. It was just weird the self-centering

Yeah, which is when you're going from a turn in the car straightening out and most cars will if you let go of the

Wheel sort of tends to do that on their own the wheel will unwind on its own, right on the road

You have to

Physically unwind it from a corner in this vehicle if you take a 90-degree right turn the wheel will

Effectively stay there. It doesn't spin back. It does not self-center

So that's another different thing you have to do which is in a vehicle. We have to spin wheel a lot

It's it's a lot now. This sounds like I'm kind of shitting on it. I want to like

This is a criticism about this thing that I don't particularly like

They made a choice. It's not like a failure. It's not like something that didn't work like they say it's stronger

They say it's better for off-roading

They say this is first and foremost an off-roading vehicle and driving it on tarmac is deeply secondary to how it performs off-road

Fucking fair enough like fair enough, you know, it's like saying this race cars bad in traffic. Okay, fair enough

You know so in we took it off-roading them

It's pretty good at that it is it's pretty good that the trail that we use which is called rower

North of LA was pretty rough today. It's this trail was as as eroded

Full of rocks and holes and as I've ever seen it

I mean, I think Zach could attest to that that this was the most challenging that this particular trail

Has ever been in my opinion. Yeah, I think well

We had a week of rain the big the big storm out here and it washed all the dirt that fills in these rocks

I mean some of the rocks we were on

It just that the rain revealed a lot more of them

So if the rock was four inches it might be six now and and all of the little

You have these little like

Legos that form a larger rock out here

Those the ones that are all compressed together and all of those teeth were revealed to yeah

That provides a lot of grip

But I mean any any of these undulations that just turned into rivers during this rainstorm

We're way deeper than they've been in any of our time climbing this thing. Yeah, normally

Normally a competent stock SUV does not have much trouble with this trail

We did it in an escape before no we did it in a Bronco sport Bronco sport made it up. That was probably the like

Punious thing to make it up. Did we make it in the outback or the outback did not make it. It couldn't get past the hole

Yeah, the outback the outback didn't make it. I tried it in a macan once and that couldn't do it

But like anything with low-range can do it pretty much

But we had a couple spots today that we had to fully reverse down I

Came very close to rolling. Yes, you can do the photo you have the photo of me

This dude we we push this thing today. We scratched up both skid plates pretty well and the center

We said in rower. There's a couple of hills where you can choose three different routes up the hill, you know, and it's usually like

For skiing like me, you know an intermediate slope and like two expert slopes

But the one in the middle has always had the deepest holes these kind of like

Oscillations, you know, it's tilting the truck back and forth. It really tests articulation. Yeah

and what I recognized after

We will tell we can talk about the moment and then we can talk about the tech that this truck should have had

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Com code tire. I mean look the mom the moment is what it is

I went through one of these big swales with a big articulation

It's you know in this in a photo that we're showing right now. The the front left tire is

At least 18 inches off the ground

Yeah, and it was higher at a different point in that like yeah in that section you the first time you did it

You stopped yeah, and I was like holy shit, and I took a photo and your tire was absolutely two feet off the ground

Yeah, so then a few feet maybe ten feet further up this ravine

There was another swale, but it was very soft. Yeah, and we did not air down

We honestly just out of laziness and and usually when we're testing stock SUVs on this trail

We don't air down we just drive them right off the road and up the trail just because that's how we do the test

I mean this isn't like

Sciencey science, but like I think if we air down some of the cars and not others that would be not you know consistent

So so you know we use whatever drive modes are appropriate and available for the for the challenge of the obstacle

And we leave the tire pressure stock, so I think had we aired down we probably could have got up this soft thing

We didn't I had to back down. I tried it like three times and on the third try

the vehicle went into this ravine, but like

We kind of realized just how like far down it was like

Okay, so in this photo the front left tire is about three feet in the air

It's a lot and it's at full droop. Yeah, and the other tire is at full compression

The rear tire is articulated the other axle is articulated fully in the opposite way and

Had I fallen had the front tire fallen from this I

Absolutely would have rolled the vehicle. Well, it was deep enough and this was right before

Don't have a shot now because I put my phone down to help so right after this moment

The front left tire went into this deep hole and and he kept proceeding forward

But then you hit the soft stuff and the truck yawed left. Oh, yeah

Nine inches so now instead of facing straight up that trail and having all that control you twisted and the left

You know left front was kind of near a bush back right

What I mean that rear tire could not have gone higher

Yeah, I would have gone into that was sort of sideways down the hill side ways and the way the moment happened when you were starting to

back up I think and

The vehicle like

Started to it's just the rebound of the shock and and you're going slow. You weren't going fast

It was just the rebound and everything tilted your driver window

Closer to the ground than we ever experienced

Yeah, really really close to the ground like I ran around the car and probably did nothing

But my instinct was pushed on the other fender not like under the car

But I was like oh shit

Yeah, and and you just you move back just enough and the back left came rose rose up a little and settled it

But I don't it was like it wasn't like a fuck-up that got me there

And it wasn't like an act of heroism that got me out of there

It was just like a whole shit, you know is one of those

It's very this thing is capable enough that we got to this point where it was like all right

Let's see what this you know this this this is a hard obstacle. We're gonna choose the hardest path

We think it can do it. Yeah, it actually can't

We did with this is where it couldn't proceed. We had to go around the other one later

But like this is a tough rig

But yeah, we got it pretty close to pretty close to having a moment and with this highlighted for me is the advantage of

electronic, you know

Sway bars, you know, you can get them on the Bronco Ranger or Wrangler

I think have them first of course and

That makes a massive difference because the articulation

Toyotas you can do it. I think oh you get on the Toyota the Toyota the Land Cruiser

I mean people who are experienced off-roaders know and we've been on press launches where you try something with you know

Those things engage and you know disengage the sway bars and you gain a foot of articulation

Now in the back

I don't know if you would get more room because you might have the tire up against the wheel well

But in the front if you're able to twist this down another foot, you know, that would have prevented the body from

I mean so much

Yeah, I mean, I think what's what any os is really going for with this thing is

To make it as simple as possible

Which is an interesting thing for us to explore because I'm not sure that they've succeeded

because

It's still it's still it's not as complex as most modern vehicles

It has as they told me like somewhere between a half and two-thirds of

Excuse me a third. I want to say that right the Grenadier has between one-third and one-half the number of

ECUs that a normal like car would have today

So it has a mechanical, you know low-range, but it still has electronic, you know locking diffs

It still has drive modes. It still has you know a

Screen and car play and Bluetooth in fucking a-dass has that

Turbocharged engine. It's a BMW engine in a GF gearbox in modern stuff

Yeah, so it's not like it's got you know a Buick

3800 v6 and a five-speed manual, right, you know and crank windows, you know it

There are definitely things on this that could break in a modern way such as

The gearbox with it got stuck in fourth gear for us

We actually didn't notice it because we were going downhill and we were in low range

And we were essentially just idling the engine and and using the brakes

But but for about 45 minutes the vehicle was fully stuck in fourth gear

Yeah, and we had to shut it off and I mean fortunately all it took to fix it was was

Shut it off walk away for a few minutes come back and and that did fix it

But like you know it just is a reminder that weird electronic hiccups can happen in this thing also like it's not so simple that

check engine lights and

You're electronically controlled gearbox getting stuck in fourth gear isn't gonna happen like that happened. Yeah

and

but like

The analogness of it in an otherwise incredibly digitized world is like super welcome like the buttons and the knobs and the

Toggles and the fact that at night. There's so little light coming at you in the cockpit like all that shit is fucking great

Yeah, and those little bars next to the toggles. I'd always looked at them and just thought oh, that's like

I just didn't understand like the true function and then we're bouncing around and I had to like disable the front locking

Deferty whatever and I hooked my finger on it and hit it with my thumb

I went oh

Yeah, that's why because otherwise there's no way I'd be able to aim for that button while we were bouncing up and down this trail

The off-road controls aren't

Fully as intuitive as they maybe should be but there is like a nice quick handy reference guide car placard

That was very helpful every car company

If it's a press car should have that thing like if you're an owner you might learn these things

But I think any cars that sold and aimed at off-road or should have placard off-road functions because now with all these electronic diffs

Locking this and that sometimes you have to dig in the manual and go find page

212e and then if you want to look at the you know a different function

It's over a different page and this was here's all the things you might need to know and it was really handy

We only when this when we had the the other

Ineos like a year and a half ago whatever it was we had trouble getting into some of these modes

So we didn't have that card and the reason is like it can only go into this mode if this mode is engaged first

But like that doesn't pop up on the screen. I wish it did that because I'm glad you brought that up

There's a little on the lower left side of the screen is where the warning lights pop up little information

I kept thinking it was a button. They're not shaped like some of the clickable buttons. Yeah, yeah

But we have this screen that can display so much information and later on it said window washer fluid low

Yeah, so there's there's programming in there that could tell me things but to just say this unavailable

Yeah, tell me why me for the further information before you go into this mode

This must be activated. Yeah, as much as I dislike Hyundai's Hyundai N divisions

Men you like black hole it will often say hey you have to go into this mode first doesn't tell you how

Yeah, but it does say you have to be like it should work like a car configurator, right?

Where you click on the wall seats and it says I'm sorry you have to get premium package

Would you like to add premium package and then it's just done right like if it can work on the thing you used to buy the car

Yes, it should work in the car exactly, you know like you must sorry. Oh, it's again in this mode

You must disable trash control. Would you like to disable trash cool? Yes?

Okay done like there should just be a flowchart of that because it's clear you want that thing on right so

Speaking of which a dash, okay now a British car company and we know from Aston Martin the UK

Mandatory a dash law and for these small car makers and for maybe I'll have to correct myself

I this is a US market vehicle. It's not it. This is not a Europeans bet car

So it's the a dash fully goes back on every time you start the car

If there are two kinds of cars where this should not happen

Luxury sporty SUVs is gotta be the biggest one because those are cars driven every day by people

That's people's every car and then shit like this where it's supposed to give you the impression of something older

Hmm and it's doing the most annoying thing possible out of today's cars and to turn off the fucking a-dash in this thing

You have to go in the touchscreen. You have to press settings

Vehicle functions a-dash

Which brings up the a-dash menu. That's three button tabs if you are stopped and I mean in park

You can then scroll to the bottom of a long menu at the very bottom and click a thing saying turn off all

And you have to do that. That's your best case scenario for every time you start the car and I'm talking

Lane

Lane keep that is that a second lane that makes you almost think you've had a crash correction

The course of correction on the wheel was so abrupt to happen twice while you were driving us back that I I thought you were avoiding

Something about to hit. Yeah, and you're like that you hit just like move towards the yellow line on the left and it pushed back

With a like three or four times as hard as you had moved over

Doesn't it doesn't match the angle or cadence with which you've drifted. Yeah, it's really it's almost like a dog ran in the road

And I'm trying to and you're talking about a top-heavy

Floppy-ass SUV yeah, not a fucking cayenne turbo right so so you have to so if best case scenario is

one two

Three slide four when you're parked every time best case scenario if you forget and now you're driving

You can't hit the fucking turn all off

They gray it out

Now you have like six individual a-dash functions

Click off. Are you sure? Yes, click off. Are you sure? Yes, click off. Are you sure? Yes, click off?

Are you sure so now it goes to like 15 button taps while your touchscreen taps while you're driving, right?

This is like crazy town. I can't fucking and Johnny I had dinner with Johnny during night for a thing with Sergio cuz Tatos

Going off whatever we had dinner together and Johnny goes

He's like in love with this thing. He goes when I'm done with the review. I'm gonna buy one of these

This is gonna be my next daily driver. I go Johnny. Did you have you have you messed with the a-dash yet?

He goes no, I didn't really try it yet. I you should you're gonna want to do that

This shit is crazy, dude. That alone puts it in the absolutely fucking never category for me

I just think it's strange that you know the intention of a-dash is to increase safety

But if you are moving that it requires more attention on the screen than if you're parked insane. Yeah insane

What else did I write about this thing? Okay, the good folks got to take one more quick break because fit bod

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I think the I think the BMW powertrain for the most part fits the character of this thing very well

I think it works the only exception though was in low range

There was this kind of step as you start applying throttle the boosters that would happen

It made it a little hard to modulate the the thrust and then like the speed of the rear wheel or the wheels

between like

2000 and 2800 rpm all of a sudden they go for work spike and it highlighted for me

The how impressive the forerunner was you know, that's a four-cylinder engine

But it had the eye power whatever electric boost and by filling in those torque spots

It was much easier to creep up these this exact same trail do the electric g-wagon sure that's the electric

G-wagon and the and the Rivian the four motor Rivian

That shit that's like next let that I mean this I would you don't want a Rivian in the fucking middle of Africa

That makes total sense, but for local off-roading. Holy shit is four motor EV where it's fucking at. Yeah, that was the most control

I think I think the the grenadier

Particularly and can we let's get a better picture of it in fire engine fucking red

Which is new for this year with the steel ease

And it's got the snorkel on it though they qualified the snorkel with it is a dust snorkel not a water snorkel

The fitment where the snorkel goes into the steel body is not water tight

So it's really for dust and not yet the opening on the snorkel faces the back of the car

Yeah, front of the car. Yeah, so I might not equip mine with dust snorkel

But this one but still the red with the black steel ease. That's dope. It's very good

The interior I love the dashboard the headliner the pop-up sunroofs above the driver like that shit is great

But this thing is $95,000. I don't mind manual seats

But we need lumbar support that that is a I need even if it's just a knob

You crank up or a thing a thing you squeeze like for 95,000

100 grand and it's a vehicle that's meant to be driven for long long long distance

Yeah, I just I flew in yesterday yesterday from New York sat on a plane for five and a half hours

No, and I went in my back hurt toward the end of that and I was sitting there going the shape of the seat feels good now

But would it after five hours? I don't know the answer

It doesn't you notice the lack of the one thing is that the adjustment knob for the seats it changed the angle of the seats is

Right in line with the B pillar and if your hands and wrists are any bigger than ours. It's weird

You're not adjusting it. Yeah, it's weird and and and then the back seat which in the pickup truck if you recall was fucking

Laughable because the cab is really short to have like a bed and so the backs. It's a vertical to you

So the back seat is like so vertical like you cannot fit in it in the pickup truck

They might as well

Ditch the back doors and just make an extended cab and have the seats fold forward or or something

But like that's just crazy

In this one the back seat is okay the leg rooms okay

But it doesn't it's still very upright. It doesn't recline. Hmm. It also doesn't fold down flat. It's fixed

There's no I didn't yeah, it doesn't fold forward and it doesn't fold back and there's no fold-down armrest in the middle

again

$95,000 and the seats are made by like recaro. I think you can't change the angle and you can't fold it down

So if you own this thing

Seats are made by a car don't hold me that I think I think I saw a car on there somewhere, but like

But I just it doesn't

Again for this much money, you know like I

get that boutique

Vehicles made in small volume and and and the the the actual quality as you noticed as well today's act

They are screwed. They are right. So this thing is it's not like they don't know how to make a good seat

Like Fisker like they like they've never even tried their for their seats were terrible, but but like I don't know

There's a there is a bunch of stuff where it's like yes, that's boutique. Yes, it's analog

Yes, it's it's got a lot of things about it that do make it sort of pseudo exotic

But there's other shit where it's like for this much money, dude

Lumbar a back seat a rear seat that has some kind of adjustment

So so Top Gear magazine said the rear seats the bench does fold flat it does so maybe we didn't find that thing

We have to go we should go we'll have to go out and look again

I I couldn't find a lever

It may not lean back because that's something that's

Kind of recent to cars where the back seat is adjustable to lean back for comfort folding flat forward has been around for a long long time

Yeah, I just think there's nothing behind it, right?

There's there isn't a good reason that this can't have some adjustability

It has a lot of the ergonomics of like a g-wagon. Yeah backseat not a lot of leg room

Yeah, trunk not that deep although maybe I have looked the measurements like not that deep

I like the split tailgate door. I think it's clever so it opens doesn't need as much room

Doesn't have a huge swing or I was was it a Bronco?

I think it's the Bronco the Bronco had like a crate

You need an enormous amount of room to open that bad in the g-wagon Bronco or the I

I think it was I think it was the Bronco. Anyway, go on. Sorry, but it does it

I mean now this thing had a thousand miles on it. I

Think it felt really really solid even compared to when we've gotten Wrangler vehicles

Just it feels like the tolerances are really really good. Yeah

Bouncing up and down all these rocks like the only the only wiggle sound in the entire car was the key chain

Yeah, which I and also I got me nuts do that key chain

Click I've almost stopped to take the thing off. Also. It has a key which is interesting

Which is interesting. Yeah, you you put the key in keep it simple unless one less ECU

Without having that thing. Yeah, that was the only sound in it. No, I'd like I I don't I like the key

I like the toggles and the the analog switches. I like the manual seats like but I just

There's just you know, there's some things that I think that for that much money

Now this one also had all the off-road stuff. It has the winch which we didn't use

Expensive option the winches the most expensive options like four grand or something and it's got oh, I started down this road

The the this is the wagon. There's also the quarter master is the truck

But then confusingly trial master is an off-road

Trim package

Not excuse me an off-road equipment package that can be applied to any of them

So you could have a quarter master trial master, which is dumb

In Eos's naming scheme is really gonna go off the rails next year when they come out with the Fusiliar

Which is one of the worst car names?

It's terrible. Oh, hey, by the way speaking of just sidebar fun fact fun fact for everybody today. Did you know?

that even though in

1958

America had about a half the population it has now

During the same two-year period of time Ford sold almost twice as many Edzels as

Tesla has sold cyber trucks the car a car that is like this like

The

Fail car

They sold twice as many of them to half as many people during the same period of time is the cyber truck

Wow, that's how bad the cyber truck. Well is a flop. I mean there were fewer cars available

Good point. So there were fewer cars available

Good point. Yeah, yeah trial master. Yeah, there's the quarter master trial master

Yeah

So you could you could you could have a quarter master field master or you could have a quarter master trial master

They must have had infinities people on the name

That's just that's just a quarter master field. Just just end with field. Yeah, that's fine quarter master trial

Trials trials not trials. Yeah, and you would you'd keep black edition. You would not shorten that right so so

I mean look if you if anyone out there is considering an old defender

I don't mean like 1960s old, but I mean like any like any of those fucking

Crazy expensive like v8 swap defenders on either any of that kind of shit

Skip all of that just skip straight over that garbage and just get one of these. Yeah, I mean if you think you want a defender

I can almost guarantee you you actually want this instead this had I rested my arm on the arm right on the left side

It's meant for people who have left arms for people who have arms on the for the outside of the vehicle on either side

Yeah, it drives nice and I think you know the ball steering as annoying as it is for road stuff

Um, it's true of the Wrangler as well when you are driving off-road and there's a lot of kickback on the tires

It mutes that pretty well, you know, there's not a lot like it reduces the chances of you breaking your fingers

But yeah thumbs out of the spokes anyway. Yeah, uh, I mean that's true

I mean and it it's it's it's better built than one of those old, you know

The the comp for this is old defender not new

Range Rover or maybe maybe hopped up Wrangler. I mean you if you if you were considering one of those 75 or 80 thousand dollar

Hopped up Wranglers. I think you your money goes further buying one of these

I think you I think it as long as you're driving on the road more

You know because the hopped up Wrangler will have things like the you know

Electronic sway bars like it will be more suited for serious off-roading. Yeah

And the engine if it's still the penistar v6 is also

It's like a simpler kind of more known thing

but

This this kind of reminds me at that price point. This is like the shop foreman drives this right the f150 platinum edition

You know, it looks off-roading. It is off-roading to a degree, but it has a slightly different badge

It looks different. It looks like the old defender, but drives more like a new car

You got to explain to a lot of people that it's not a defender. That's sure

That I had to spend a lot of time. Did you get approached a lot? Yeah

Oh, what's up with the defender like it's not what is it? It's named after me by chevron

Yeah, I mean like what if what if chevron made a car? That's what INEOS is INEOS is like a petroleum company

So it's like if this is the chevron

Grenadier

Gas company car like ever

Yeah, but they look we made a good product. I mean, I think we are we're pointing out the details in this tiny problems

which is what we should do and

For first effort as we've talked about. Oh, yeah, very impressive

Honestly, if you look at this car and just looking at it you go. I like that you probably will like you you actually probably will

um

The only things that would keep me from buying it

You know if I really liked how it looked and the idea of it is the adas and maybe the seats

I wonder if

Lobbyists or companies or something can make an argument for if a car is imported from europe

Can we have a different adas interaction system? That's quicker or you know, then they have over there

If they can add a little pro area, I don't think they have to put that in here for america

That shit's voluntary. I think people like having lane keep assist

They like having those features in us cars also

But if the if we can access those controls and disable them more quickly than europe law allows

Yeah, or just have them stay off

If you turn it off, I mean the answer is just to have it or default to wherever you left it

That's I mean that's the thing. Yeah a car

Imagine setting anything in your car the fucking radio this the memory seats

Whatever and every time you get back in the car. It's not where you left it. That's fucking crazy. That's terrible

Yeah, true. Who would want a car like adas memory function you hit m

Oh my god, tie it to the memory seat. Sure, bro. Your big boy needs adas off

Your short woman. Sure. This is I'm not being sexist. I'm talking about my own wife

Your short woman in memory three really fucking needs it. Yeah, I mean there's profiles like the you know

M cars have all that stuff so I don't have an adas profile patent pending

That's fucking all right. Yeah, they don't I kept saying to like astin like how come

You know, you've got tour

Sport track and then individual. I said, well, why don't you just make it?

So you can have individual adas settings in your individual drive mode

So I start the car and I go into individual and everything's where I want it

And they said it's like a not not enough, you know button clicks or whatever to

It's got to be by law. Oh, it's the minimum three

Yeah

Anyway, we didn't we didn't break it, but we did scratch the skid plates a little bit. We peed we peed pants and

Definitely did a little scratchy scratchy in the underside

But that's what it's there for and I don't know how much lean, you know, one of these vehicles can take

I'm sure if we were maybe for the pro off-roader coach or something

They go no, you got a couple degrees left. Yeah, that was enough for us

That's like that raw and white joke like I don't know how many of them it would take to beat me up

But I know how many they had

Um, oh and the last thing about it, dude, you know what I did experience on the highway

The funhouse mirror effect at night because all the windows are vertical like my old Hummer

I've told this story, but the light bounces around in there. Oh my gosh. And so if you have a

It

You seek you see cars

in

The back window that are being reflected from the front window

So like I was following a white Mini Cooper

And I look in the rear view mirror

And it shows me in my back window the tail lights the ass end of a white Mini Cooper

And you're like man that guy's going fast and that used to happen in my Hummer

And it happens in this too when the windows are perfectly vertical you get funhouse mirrors. Whoa. Yeah, it's a little creepy

Uh, so thanks to Ineos for letting us have a go for a week. We we appreciate it. Yeah, we do. It was a fun morning out there

Uh, till I thought I lost my phone. We had to go look for it. Oh, yeah, and then it was in the car the whole time

It were I mean well it was hidden very well in the car

But but we thought it fell out of the car

Yeah, and we went looking for it. It was on the way back to where we were going and uh, then it wasn't there

So I logged in a zax phone used to find my iphone. I made my phone

Play a little song and the song came from the car

There we go. It was excellent excellent day. Um, what else we have? Oh, so

Don't need political. What did you see that?

Fucking hair furor wants to have an indie car race at the national mall in washington

What yeah, I did not see that so first, you know first

They want to do ufc on the white house lawn and now they're talking about having an indie car race

In washington dc. They planned the freedom 250 around the national mall

It's part of the uh, this this fucking

This is uh, uh, like a map like in gladiator

200 days of games. This is like the straight up

Commodus 200 days of games

Uh

Era of

Now i'm not inherently against having a nash a street race in washington dc. That's okay, right?

The fuck not have a little have a little indie car race sure. I mean street circuits are fun

And they're exciting. Okay, so it would be like around here ish

My guess is it would be yeah, I don't know the the what the distances are. Yeah

Where does uh, where does that that bottom independence have southwest is it come bring her? Oh, yeah comes around

Wow, so it probably will connect somewhere and then go up, you know constitution avenue

Back around right? Yeah, I mean that could be fast. That could be kind of a neat track. Well, it's like a gentle sweeper sweeper

Yeah, I mean maybe they chicane it somewhere if you go around the lincoln memorial if you take a hard right in here

Yeah, and go lincoln memorial and then north there. Yeah, or on the angle on the angle. Maybe oh, yeah on the 45 there

That could be cool

Look, I gotta say out of all the things he has decreed in the last year. This is probably my favorite

Because if if someone got the permits independently from him it was like we're having a race here

And here's what it's gonna look like. I'd say if the track's cool like that's pretty cool, right? So

All right, yeah, you can't make something shitty just because trump did it

Yes, that's what I'm trying to do that. Uh, and

It's probably easier to get those permits when it's been decreed by the great leader. Yeah. Yeah, which is now

That's the aspect. I don't like but because he's in construction

He could wave he could just wave permits, right? Well, you just don't pay the permit. You just go ahead anyway

Just do it whatever. All right

I think I need I need to see the track map of what they would do man

You could well you're gonna you're gonna turn right on trump avenue and then turn left onto trump place

And then and then go straight down trump way and then

And then you break it the trump s's you got the baron chicane. Yeah, yeah, yeah

You do a lap you should call it the teen chicane because we're gonna get demonized because it's causing a little trouble

Yeah, you know, it just could throw off your race. Yeah, we're gonna get uh, no views on this video now turn left that

Eat s's. Yeah

Oh

Anyway, but there's no rules you can just go straight across those and there will be no flag

Uh questions, would you get to that? Yeah, I don't have I I legitimately don't have

Anything else. Yeah, I didn't drive anything this weekend. I drove my own cars. How about that?

I put 250 miles on my spider this weekend and I

Reminded myself that it now has

7500 miles and I need an oil change so it's gonna go to bbi next week for an oil change for the eight hour surgery

Yeah, dude, that's crazy. How long fucking oil changes taken spiders. That's insane

Uh, let's go to the people of course. Who are these people?

Patreon.com slash the smoking tire podcast

They're the people that support this show in good times and in bad with their

Dollars every month keeping the show rolling down the river and for those dollars

They get to listen to the show live. If not live, they get to listen to the show early

They get to ask their questions for the show, which we will get to in just a second

They get extra show every month and they get exclusive access to

Merch collabs and things like the uh notice canyon watches that we are doing and patrons get them first

Uh

Alrighty queer shift and gears

I'm trying to make a list of fun

Wait, I'm trying to make a list of fun vintage sporty runabouts for cleveland, ohio

Previously had an mg

and a boxster

Uh, currently top of the list is a honda s 800 and old mini

What else should I throw on the list and a manx feels a bit too weather dependent?

Uh, well, how about your beetles then? I mean, there's lots of room in beetle land. Um,

Not weather dependent. I if you haven't had a beetle, I would throw that in there. Uh, I mean

Old british shit, right?

Your your your your triumphs your austin helis. I mean you had an mga

So you you know you know about that s 800's a great call. It is the coop. I just looked up. That's a pretty cool looking thing

Oh, those are pretty rad. Yeah

Um, oh dude, you know what I just saw that was amazing. It was a triumph

tr4

Coach body by vignale. It was at the manhattan beach cars and coffee

I'd never seen one before it was very pretty. It was an italian styled triumph. I believe it was a tr4

They made like 300 of them or something. Do you see that? It's like try of tr4 italiano or some shit like that

But the body is by vignale vig and al e and it sort of has a very like maserati-ish kind of look

You're gonna find one from triumph italia. Yeah, italia. That might be it

Yeah, that top left triumph italia. That's it. Sorry

That look, I mean

That is it's like a baby aster. It's like a little baby maserati seabring for that. Yeah. Yeah pretty cool

This is really nice in the back

This this thing was red tan looked great had the fitted luggage in there

That's a hot little item. Yeah

If you can find yourself a uh, yeah triumph italia rear three quarter of you. Yeah, apparently they're pretty rare

Only made a couple hundred of them, but fucking cool

Yeah, I like that

How about something a little more modern? How about an outtt first gen?

That's a good baseball. That's a good choice sporty runabout. That could be awesome

P car photos. Do you prefer the look of the miata rf over the standard soft top?

And does the rf's added weight noticeably change the driving experience? Yes, I do and no, I don't think it really does

I

Do not prefer the look of the retractable hard top

I do not think it

Significantly changes the driving experience. However

I I think it's still fucking loud in there considering considering it's a real roof

It totally doesn't knock the noise back that much. It weighs 113 pounds more. Yeah, and I think

I think it changes it the noise by like a decibel or two. So

Um, I like it

I think it looks cool, and I like the security of the hard top

Versus the soft top and more durable over a long-term ownership

Yeah, uh duffel shuffle retirement club recently learned about the diesel powered outer eight

Prototype didn't that have the v12 diesel in it out of the that we're using in the q7. I think it did diesel

All right, what crazy diesel engine in a supercar combo. Would you like to see?

interesting question and

Interesting thought exercise personally

A diesel engine in a supercar is does not interest me at all

It doesn't diesel. I like the torque of it and the long legs

My brain goes to like veyron if you want to drive 2,000 miles in one tank of fuel

Yeah, but if you have a supercar you have supercar gas card money

Then just keep putting high octane in it. You know, it just doesn't give you any sound as good

It doesn't rev it the power pan that it makes is not

The kind of power band that I enjoy in a sports car. I mean, I think outie's

Um strategy at lemaw with the diesel cars was fucking unbelievable. I mean that it worked for years

One races with it, but they did not put it in their supercar. Yeah. I mean, I think that that says a lot

I mean the thing that the engine, you know, the race car driver

Drives the race car fast like whatever it is the race car driver is not there to have fun

And I am there to have fun

I'm spending a lot of money on this car to have fun

And I'm guessing the reason they never actually made it is because it probably wasn't very fun

Imagine the rev sound

I suck. I mean, it probably wasn't that great like

um, I I think

I think that's a sad truth of diesels in sports cars. It's just like they're not they're not for that

Having said that all right sound. Yeah, what would I like I I do think you could put like

A Cummins or like a I saw a Duramax in like an old Cadillac

Yes, like that. There's something to that where if you have an old cruiser

You could diesel it up and it could be cool led sleds

Old hot rods those are cool. And I still like the m cars in europe that are diesel. I think

For like oh, yeah, those like the m 550d. Sure, whatever. Yeah, no, I don't mind that as a as a that's like a

Because that's a highway car. Exactly. That's like I'm doing 30 000 miles a year and that's all right. I just like for not for a supercar

Gat Farah

That's a good one. I've been thinking about buying a gun

I mean, I have a shotgun, but I mean, but like a gun gun. I want to be thinking like that

I don't want to look it. I'm not a gun. I'm not like I have a gun guy. It gets to there just swing by

Your friend's house. I know

You know borrow one or if it does that's true if it does I just I know I know where to go you have the sailing knowledge

And your friend has the other oh for fucking sure sure

Shit really goes down. You know, guess what? No, no boat is safe. We voltron

We're fucking going

um

Um

Okay

Gat Farah says regarding the lemonade debate. Okay, this is now. I don't know if it's a debate

But this is a company that is offering to provide discounted insurance

Based on the fact that it says that if if you use tesla fsd

You are safer and therefore your rates go down and we've sort of

Pretty much implied that that's not actually based any existing science

um

The question is wouldn't an insurance company that has a telematics platform be ideally positioned to produce their own data

About fsd versus non fsd safety. I think there is actually an argument for that

um

If lemonade knows about driving behavior via their own data and can then correlate to fsd versus non fsd miles

And then compared to all cars in the data set surely they'd be able to draw a good conclusion to support

Their fsd discount for the record. I think this is tech bro accelerationist bs also

Um, I think you're right here

I think if they if they did have telematics and and connected telemetry that that really did work and could produce that type of a test

Um and could get it in enough cars

And have it running over a period of time. They absolutely could produce their own data

But it doesn't seem like that's what they're trying to do. It seems like they're trying to hype fsd

Yeah, we'll see. Um, um real quick, uh, someone mentioned caster in terms of the inios and I found inios forum

And people said that in stock this is 2024 cars the stock

Vehicles only had two degrees of caster. So one person added 1.5 degrees and it made a big difference in their steering response

Really? So remember the uh, who made that Volvo? We drove the p1800 thing. Yeah. Oh, yeah zero caster terrible

Also, we didn't even mention it

But the 2026 vehicle which we were driving did have like a list of like 60 updates

There were and some of them were big and some of them were small

So there was like updates so the climate control system updates to like all kinds of little stuff

But there were a couple of updates to the steering

Um little suspension bits that changed the behavior. I think based on those type of complaints

Um from those earlier cars

And so although I don't have an apples to apples comparison or to say like yes, this is better

I think it's a little better than when I drove it last time. I think it is too, but it's still

Not as good as if it was a rack and pinion system. Yeah. Yeah

Uh kendrick lamark for supra

pretty good

If if oems could set up a completely blind test meaning journalists got in a car

And there was no badging and no way to tell what brand of car you're in

What cars would overperform and what cars would underperform?

talking about performance driving or like in terms of people's

review of that car

I mean, I I don't know if they mean

Drive if you mean driving or like touching stuff and quality

um

I mean cars that would overperform driving is probably like genesis

Actually in terms of touching and in terms of driving is probably genesis genesis. Yeah cars that would underperform

non m bmw's now. I think if you got in a fucking

Like a

Fully loaded up. I don't know elantra versus a

BMW 2 series the front wheel drive one the four I I bet you couldn't tell much difference at all

Yeah, they both have lots of screen. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I think the Cadillacs

would underperform because I think

uh genesis and hunday and other they've gotten closer to those higher priced vehicles and Cadillac has a lot of the

Same like hard buttons, which I really appreciate

But because they don't have the fancy sparkle sometimes which is detrimental like Mercedes you might think it's a lower market

Sure, if you're talking dynamics, the Cadillacs would probably overperform. Very true. Yeah, I was thinking just interior design

Reeducation through working on shit boxes

New assignment for the patrons. I would like your

Kitchy usernames to be based on rise against songs for the next three months, please. Let's let's work on that

Reeducation through labor is an excellent song

Tim McElrath was at uh at the tom morello concert the one in minneapolis. Yeah with springsteen and shit

Oh, they did a couple rise against tunes and they also did

Misery by soul asylum, which is a great song

um

A few weeks ago asked for advice debating between the 981 Boxster s and the e92 m3

and your

recommendation

Came down to don't get back seats if you don't need them

Then my wife and I just learned we have a need for back seats in the near future. Congratulations. There we go

Is an e90 m3 manual a better m5 than an e39 m5

I think in many ways in many ways. Yes in many ways. Yes in terms of reliability cost of ownership

twisty dynamic fun

Yes, all those things to nine years newer car

It's a second generation engine compared to the m5's engine

I would say yes, it is a it is a better car

um

Yeah, the e39 m5 is probably a better collectible

but um

Uh, yeah, I think a four door m3 e90 is a good a good choice and congratulations swede low

Uh, okay looking for tires for a sob 9 000 turbo

You know when the last time I saw a fucking 9 000 turbo was out there they sobs don't exist in LA

Yeah, they don't I saw I saw 1 900 at Manhattan beach cars and coffee

Non-turbo no wing. We just they were on the east coast. They were everywhere. They just don't exist here

Um, do you have an opinion on quote classic tires versus a regular modern high quality all season?

Is this a uh cosmetic thing for the purists because they point out that these classic tires are more expensive than a similar

Right, you know s tire. Yeah, so here's the uh

The good thing about the classic tires is they're used modern rubber, right?

It's the old shape and style and it's and it's modern rubber

So for a car like like a coontosh or an 80s an exotic car or a specialty car or as you pointed out if you want the look

um, or if you want the car to

Drive kind of like how it would have you know, but with with the better compound

So it'll grip better, but with the tread pattern, you know, it would drive in the wet and snow

Like it used like it would have back then and so like

If if you want to you know, keep it period correct like, you know pay the cost to be the boss, right?

And these tires are made in smaller quantities. So they're going to be more expensive

But also the rim size. I mean, this is yeah, they mentioned the mission 15s

Yeah, they mentioned the michelin xz x it only comes in a 12 inch and a 15 inch rim size

So it comes either for like a mini cooper. Yeah, the 12 would be a mini and then 15 is going to be

A lot of well also my coontosh is 15s. I mean the my manx is 15s like

The ferrari 308 is 15s a lot of 80s cars are 15s 70s and 80s cars

It

In my opinion if you don't care about the look

And you do care about the price

Just get regular tires. Yeah, no one's gonna be like, ew, bro. Your car you put new tires on your car like

it's uh

at speaking of which

to talk i'm just

I should get front row parking forever. I mean i'm plugging Manhattan beach cars and coffee

But there was a guy there was a fox body

93 cobra

And as I do because I can't help myself squat down look at the tires and the guy the guy goes

They're original. I go from 93 and he goes. Yeah

I go you drive this here. He goes. Yeah, I go you really shouldn't be doing that and he looked at me like

Okay, buddy, wherever I go. Look no man like

Nobody gives a shit that this has original tires on it 30 and if you really care that much take them off and put them in a bag

You you're one pothole away from spinning this thing into a telephone. You know a blowout. Yeah

The tire just shred 30 year old tires this guy's driving around on

What are you doing? I think people don't know people just people literally don't know so bragging about it

Lucky to be alive

um

Yama Habibi if you had to prescribe driving homework to every driving enthusiast

What cars should every enthusiast experience driving at least once in their life?

I mean, there's a there's a that's an easy one. You've got your Miata's

Uh, you've got your uh, uh, mustangs 80s 80s 90s mustangs you've got your uh,

Your civic someone did you drive a great civic?

Everyone should drive um

Like uh, like an early 2000s subaru wrx or sti

and even also an evo

Everyone should try a gated manual Ferrari

Um

Everybody should be

Should at least be driven if not drive

In a mclaren in anger

Like a 750 on a track or a 765 on a track

um

And you'd be shocked that things like that are allowed for sale on the street at all

and everyone should do uh

quarter mile pull

in like

A lucid sapphire or tycon turbo gt to really understand what there's what they're selling people in terms of

and everyone should um

Everyone should should do a full a quarter mile pull in a rivian

Quad motor and then have to slam on the brakes at the quarter mile

Just to see what they're actually selling people over there

And you'll and you'll be like, uh, that shouldn't be legal

I think you should also hopefully get a quarter mile pull in something with a big turbo

Yeah, just to see the difference. Yeah in generation of horsepower everyone should try a model t

Um, everyone should try a three on the tree column a three on the three shift

That'll get you going old stuff new stuff mid all mid engine rear engine front

You know start with that criteria for sure. Yeah, that's a good question everyone

The bottom line is like as many different things as possible. Yeah

Even flow master that's excellent

With a resident chamber

What are they defining any more of their product? Oh the cops all know

So they chasing us away

Yeah

What's a more timeless modern era design

The last generation lexus gs or c6 c6

I have a question

Is that question set up because those are like particularly not timeless designs

I think the last gen gs is a good car. It is but timeless. No, no that with that shredder grill exactly

We doing that was like the first step in what many of us call a bad front end design

That was the beginning of shredder the timeless gs is the second gen gs the one that where it was the gs for

The gs 400 the four i car that motherfucker is timeless

That one top left the gs 400. Yeah, you want to you want to talk about a fucking exceptional car

No notes that gs 400 that thing was fast as fuck great interior design aged beautifully couldn't kill it

Fabulous car. Yeah the six cylinder ones you could turn into drift cars because they had two jays

But i'm gonna go with fucking neither even flow master

Oh, well i'm go c6 out of the two and i guess c6, but the c6 is a fucking

I think i don't think i think the interior ruins the exterior

I think the i think the exterior profile front is

Fantastic and then you look inside and you go it's basically a c5 and that sucks

Um

So this is a little confusing. Do we think this is weird indie car sell well indie car out d car

okay

Do you think most modern enthusiast cars are doomed to sell well for the first years?

And then die off and be killed

It seems that people want one, but then everyone gets one and then they die off and they don't do a new one right around

It's time for a refresh or a new generation

Killing or neutering the car for the next generation

I mean the problem is is that

People just can't fucking afford cars. Yeah, like

Enthusiasts cars are luxury purchases whether it's a second car or

You know driving a sports car is your main car instead of something more practical

And so when budgets get tight people go i'm not going to get the second car. I'm not gonna

I can't afford to finance it. I'm gonna wait and buy a used one or whatever

um

Sports like i'm i'm writing a column next month for rodentrack about income inequality and how it's fucking up cars

because

We have an in we have the inverse

Right now the car market in terms of sports cars is inverse for what it should be there should be

30 different options for the masses and enthusiasts to buy

reasonably

Excuse me reasonably affordable sports cars instead. There's like five

Cars for everybody and like 30 different choices if you can spend

One to six million dollars on cars, which is like

That's not how it should be that's crazy

There should be fewer and fewer things to choose from as you get higher and higher up the because there's fewer and fewer people to serve

But we have an opposite, you know, this is the what they call the k-shaped economy

We have the opposite of that happening right now and that's fucked up so

Yeah, I mean

The ever you know, everyone wants to build a sports car. So they try to build a sports car

They put Subaru partners with fucking Toyota

Toyota partners with BMW

You know, they there's partnerships because no one could do it on their own

They build a sports car and then it sells in very small numbers because there's a very small number of people

that are in that

What used to be called?

middle-class

That that that can have a second car, but that that second car isn't going to be a McLaren

So yeah, it sucks

Rolex LT larry at King Ranch

I do not purchase things with leather used or new

As I am one of those damn vegans. Do I okay?

What are your thoughts on Porsche race techs interior over leather or overall thoughts on quality synthetics?

So I have race techs in my spider

I like it for the seats. I hate it on the steering wheel and shifter and I'm going to change my steering wheel to leather. Sorry vegan

Having said that I don't hate

synthetic materials. I love

a great cloth right Volvo wool

Rivians

use of cloths with

They're they're not using real leather whatever their leather is is not is and there's a lot of synthetic leathers now that

Look and feel very close to the real stuff

And if you had like a cloth insert with the you know vegan leather exterior, which is made of plastic or whatever

But I think it looks amazing and feels good too. Yeah, most of the of the higher end

Alternative leathers feel really nice now you get a new a Bentley or something and damn now now you're fucking

Serious leather that's a different story

um

But yeah, I don't like I don't like on the steering wheel or the shifter other than that. I do I do like it. Yeah

Koji koji uh in cars where you're stuck

between two wheel sizes

Oh, where you have a choice of two wheel sizes. How do you personally go about picking which size to go with?

Do you downsize for lighter weight and cheaper tires?

Or if you can get the bigger size in a forged wheel where weight isn't issued you opt that

It's a dilemma. I'm struggling with right now. You is actually

sometimes you can

The bigger the 19

Might be lighter than the 18 because that there might be more wheel and less tire

Could could could in some cases be you know, if you have very light wheels for instance sure

You also can fit larger brakes sometimes depending on how the interior

Dimensions of that wheel and that could be beneficial

I I would always opt for smaller wheel more sidewall both from an aesthetics point because I think it looks cool on basically anything

And also because of the roads around here. Yeah, so it depends on where you live

And I think your aesthetic style and what you're doing with the car. Yeah, I I agree

I mean if you have bumpy roads, you want sidewall if your roads are great and you just like the look

you know

Possibly depending on the car

You might get maybe a little bit sharper turn in with the bigger wheel because you'll have less sidewall flex

But you can get that you can get a more aggressive tire. Yeah, you could yeah, you could if that's what you wanted

You could still do that. Yeah

Um, yeah

federal

Investigator pretty good

Uh or single clutch transmissions such as lambos e-gear and ferrari's f1

Considered bad when they were new or where they considered a revolutionary new technology at the time both. Yeah, both

um

Go watch some episodes of top gear go find the original episodes of top gear on youtube or on on

What hulu or a prime or wherever the fuck they are?

um of clarkson

reviewing like the ferrari 360 or the or or the aston vanquish or any

Or the the the mercy lambom

They're just

Sheeting on the gearbox and talking about how terrible it is the whole time and when we were driving those cars

New at the rental company. We fucking hated them. We didn't they would blow

The hydraulic pumps would blow

They they'd roast the clutches like crazy

You had to the original ones like um the ferrari 355 and the vanquish like you were really supposed to like

Tug the paddles and put the car into neutral when you came to a traffic light

You weren't supposed to sit there in first gear the whole time you could like way

Wear out the throw out bearing like that's like that's like silly

um

But I also and I was more of a consumer people not a consumer as a valet

But like my exposure to it was I thought it was exciting because it was different

And it was a cool thing to have paddles on the car. Yeah, and when it kind of worked

It felt cool like the smg now. I know it's super slow

But at the time it was just such an interesting idea that I thought was exciting

But it was it was still bad the idea of it

Was like I can see where you're going with this

Um and at the time it was well this works in race cars because it works

You know if you're flat on the floor board then it was reasonably quick

It was just clunky around town and you go. Okay. Well, this is race car technology

It's not great in the street cars

um

Um

And and I think people at the time just wanted what the race cars had and that was that was fancier plus like

I think I think americans liked automatic. I think americans just like automatic transmissions and wanted to drive automatic transmissions. It was cool. Um

I thought they were shit at the time, but

Don't worry. They're still shitty today

Uh heal a monster greg. What is that? What's the new 9 11 rally gt? This is the 9 11 rally

This is a rally homologation kit for the cup car

oh

So they they're selling a fucking rally car that is awesome

Uh, I need I don't need to have any thoughts. That's awesome. Why would that why that's how is that not awesome? That's awesome

Yeah, I'm trying. I was curious at oh top speed

How can I just get between a better photo is the car road legal?

That's a good question. Yes with rally homologation. The rally gt is road legal car for competition use only that's awesome

Here we go biggest changes

Uh, it's based on the cup car adapted for rallies features a modified roll cage to carry a spare wheel

Rally specific suspension under body protection as well as a co-driver seat

Handbrake misspelled brake you misspelled brake portion. Yeah, and four identical rally tires

Uh, the powerful engine sequential gearbox with modified ratios abs and traction control

That's pretty fucking awesome

How do I drive this?

We must we must drive this. It's street legal. Yeah

Do a target with that. That's very very very sick

Yeah, we have to figure out how to drive this

They're listening. I know but we must that's so cool

Yeah, it'll be a good time. That is all that is right and good in the world

Off-road off-road sports cars are just better

Carbon monocoque and ball torture. It's so good

Uh, that's so funny one of the most boring cars I've ever owned is a sob 93

And yet I couldn't leave the house with at least one sob nerd approaching me to chew my ear off for an hour

That's very funny in your experience. What's the most?

enthusiast

What's the most or most surprising enthusiast nerd magnet car?

Skylines

Yeah, I mean you you can't get out of a gas station because everyone's I'm glad you mentioned that because saris showed me a video this weekend

It's like a tiktok thing

But the the caption it's someone with a red r32 and the caption says

Like quote, you know that girls aren't going to approach you for that car, right?

Just dudes and it's like I know yeah, and it's just footage of dudes giving thumbs up and stuff

And I went wow, it would be really funny if there's I mean, of course there's gay car dudes out there

They're just that's your move if that's crazy

If that's the move and it works, you know only on men it'd be so funny

If that's just we're gonna have to get a fishing lure queer shift and gears we need you to weigh in on this, please

Have and I don't know if they're if these are men men women or or otherwise, but but uh, let us know

Is that a good way for men to attract other men?

Yeah, I think it probably is like that's funny. It's pretty fucking funny. Um nerds. Yeah, I mean skylines. Sure

I mean, so everyone wants to talk to you about your DeLorean

Yeah, but I was gonna say most surprising. I feel like the DeLorean is not so funny. Yeah. Yeah

I mean, it's a lot

Not really people like oh, that's cool, but then they don't really give a shit

The pow I mean Hannah's pow people love

Everybody loves the pow

Hmm

I mean this this in eos, you know is is a fairly regular car and people seem to be into it

I

Think older cars sure does not surprising but like, you know your nsx

It's 20 years old, but you'd probably park it and get approached by lots of enthusiasts

I was very surprised at how much love the nsx would get on the street. It was a lot

Huh

But if you have a really clean

Old cool car like doesn't have to be fancy but like just something, you know, whatever

But that's nice and like a beat over. Uh, it's a super clean stock 240 sx. Sure

You'd get so many people saying what's up and you'll be like money. Yeah, just na whatever coup

um

cardier

Cartier car. Yeah, ll car like cool. Jay. So I guess I'll oh ll cool j ll

Cartier got a cool. Yeah. Yeah got a chance to drive the s 63 e performance for a little over a thousand miles around texas

I found it to be effortlessly fast and the stereo and toys are amazing

However, I expected it to have no road or wind noise supple suspension

And that the seats would guarantee my back would never feel a thing

And I was disappointed in those things. Uh, is my disappointed because am I disappointed because it's an amg

Or because my expectations are off

Zach reviewed this car. I had the exact same expectations and I came away disappointed because

I think adding too much performance to the s class

And I know they want to sell it and make it differentiate it from the lower s classes classes

But I think

To me a big body bends of that should be

A great highway machine, but a comfortable highway machine

So give it all the power in the world give it a thousand pound feet of torque and stuff

But make the suspension soft and make the wheels slightly smaller because on mild cracks in Santa Monica

I mean really like mild, you know joints between smooth concrete it like shook through the car

I think it has 22 inch wheels

And it just felt like they pushed it too far to the twisty track performance envelope

And they completely lost what that car is intended for and will be used for

so

I haven't driven it, but I would want it to ride well. I mean, you know, maybe

Maybe they've just done a little too much amg

You know, they went a little too far got to dial that shit back

um

But you're back, I mean

The seats that your back should did not have good seats. Maybe these were great

Maybe did you I wonder if is there like further touchscreen?

Like if you just fuck with the controls

No, no, like but if you just set the seat using the controls, but you don't dig into the menus to get

You got to get the additional lumbar all that stuff's in the in the

Adjustable bolsters and with Mercedes you can change the lumbar with that graphic not only how pronounced it is

You can make it look like a pregnant woman or a lightly pregnant woman

But you can also move the lumbar up and down and you have to get into those menus to find that stuff

And then you can tailor the seat totally to your body shape, but the ride

You know what your back's going to feel through the tires is not adjustable. Not really

Uh matt's missing coontosh part

Cadillac and Audi is an are now in f1 predictions for who will have a better year

Well, Audi bought sober. Yeah, and Cadillac's making their own team

Yeah, my money would be on Audi and Cadillac racing is so good. I mean when they're in imsa like they are

One of the top three contenders basically every year for but Audi was extremely dominant in endurance racing as well

and I think

I think Audi knows how to endurance race

f1 is not an endurance race

But they know how to race but they're and they bought an existing team that was doing okay

And Cadillac is like everything is from the ground zero and I think that will purpose uh

Have a lot more issues

Yeah, I mean the odds of them coming out of the hole fucking on podium is right probably low

Yeah, they'll learn and they'll catch up, but I think it's they're starting behind right

Um, oh boy. David Tewig the pink one in the stink. So

Uh

It turns out I know like three people in the fc files the newly released released one a cup, uh

the the uh

The brian vickers and sarah kellen thing goes back like 11 years to when me and spike hosted that tv show together

with brian vickers and his like wife was around

And she was just brian's wife and he was just a retired nascar driver

And we were you know, she was just hanging out. So we were talking about her

What do you do interior designer? Okay, you like cars?

What do you drive a ferrari 5 9 9? It's like what this girl was like

Maybe in her late 20s or early 30s and like you you drive a ferrari 5 9 9 and she's like yeah

I have a Bentley or something something else expensive and I was like

You're interiors your interior designer like

okay, but like

Something was like off and like later spike was like doing some googling and like found out then like that this girl

his his wife was like

Galeen Maxwell's like number two like recruiter. Oh really? I did not know this was in 2015

This was in 2015 and me and spike have been talking about this for years for years

And every time there's been a tidbit about her name was Sarah kellen or was is

I don't think she's ever been charged with anything. Her name's come up a million fucking times

I don't know why it's like a bombshell

That all of a sudden brian vickers is was

Involved because he's married to her. So like of course his name is going to be in there fucking somewhere

I haven't seen either of them since 2015 by the way

Um, and then yeah, tia ratias in there too. That's not great

Um

You know, I I don't know him this guy that well. He came on the show. He's a doctor. He's uh, pretty well known

He's a huge fan of airton senna and is a very fast racing driver also

and uh

Yep in the epsions

There's not he's not I mean he

There isn't like I know what he's because so I pull up this story. This is very recent

There isn't anything overtly criminal that that I that I saw okay, and I I didn't spend a lot of time on this

But like there's just there's just emails back and forth of two people that are clearly friends

Like right so vickers forwarded, uh, a sexually explicit. This is from us today

He forwarded a sexually explicit email to epsions

with a story about, uh

Uh someone who gets rejected by a princess and then oh a prince that gets rejected. Um, so he's in there for that

Yeah, and then I was trying to find information on sarah kellen

Um, well, she's right. I mean she's right there vickers ex-wife sarah kellen blah blah blah and there's two two links right there

Of her in that paragraph that you're on right there

Down down down one of those two. Oh

Okay. Oh, yeah, she was accused of recruiting. Yeah, I mean what she sound yeah guilty. I don't know

I don't I don't actually know if she was tried, but she's certainly uh, you know got it definitely been around

Let's just say and oh the thing that that uh

spike found

Back in the day

The address of her office for her interior design business. It was in a fucking building epsions

Like it was at epsions like building right so was she doing any interior design or being paid for that by doing other things

With driving around a ferrari 599 at 20 something

So, yeah, and then you know peter's in there too fucking

I I nothing like overt but like, you know friendly emails between friends

I mean I said in the car great like it's not great. I I would be I would feel gutted if my name showed up and it was like

Epsi was hit by valet zack clatman while at the chop house in boulder in 2007

Yeah, yeah, and it was like I crashed a car into him or something like that even then you know

No, Thaddeus was like don't worry. The only farah in there is a hotel in morocco. I was like, whoa

Yeah, all right, but man fucking everybody knew epstein. I guess, huh? It seems like

Seems like all the rich people

On all sides of the fucking political spectrum. I think it really does really matter

How you knew this person because if they were putting themselves in these in rich people parties

And you were also going to the not the island parties. I'm saying, you know, yeah, the like the the charity parties or whatever

There's a house in the room doing high society stuff. Okay, but the details do matter. So, yeah

Yeah, go read the the complaint line logs if you're listening to this and you haven't seen them because those are

Disgusting and that's yeah where like the real story. I think is the the extent of my

Wanting to read about the epstein files. I watch a coffee zilla. Yeah, I like I love me some coffee zilla

The latest video from the other day about there was like two days ago or whatever about this was great

But uh, yeah, no not uh, not so great that peter was

I mean

Not great. So I mean one of my I don't know what the fuck I was supposed to say

I'm gonna help the guy a couple times. We didn't do anything weird

We looked at cars and a talked about Senna talked about air and Senna. Yeah. Yeah

um

Major depreciation disorder says, uh, lots of people say certain cars hold value better than they should

But have you seen examples of cars that depreciate badly even though they shouldn't? Uh, sure

Sure, there are cars that depreciate faster than they should

Well, how do we define like should or shouldn't it's like we love them because they're exciting

But they depreciate, you know because they made a ton of them

Yeah, and it's like oh that car we think that car is worth more than x

But it's falling to that value because there's a bunch of them out there or because they fall apart and they suck

You need to change the we need to change the wording because it's not cars that depreciate badly even though they shouldn't

It should be cars that depreciate badly even though they're fundamentally good cars

You know what I mean? Because like sometimes a car depreciates badly because it's an unreliable piece of shit

Sometimes the car depreciates badly because they just built too many right like that's that's corvettes

I mean that's i'm literally counting on that

I am counting on corvette zr ones to get so cheap that I can buy one as a daily beater

The fact that zero sixes are already come down. They're already there, you know hugely in price and regular as

c7s

Like a stingray is like a 55 thousand dollar car right now with pretty relatively low miles. So like

You can always count on gm to make one more car than they should have and so um, yeah, that's a good example. Yeah

Granny shifted not double clutching

Like you should would you rather be a moderately successful racing driver think mid-tier indie car

Or have the careers you currently have I'd rather have the career I currently have

I think something that isn't talked about but if you listen to

Dinner with racers a lot of the racers they talk to they talk about the hustle required by

a

Racing driver below the top top tier the hustle

They have to put in to get sponsors for everything for every year is crazy

I mean all of them have the same story of

Knocking on 100 doors when they're getting started even when they're winning a couple things or doing well

They have to go sell themselves all the time and that just seems for me that would be

Like impossible. Mm-hmm. That'd be really hard not to mention you don't get to drive everything you drive one thing and

Yeah, it might suck that I mean what if you're you know

What if the car you have is a piece of shit or the team you're in is a piece of shit?

But you need them, you know like belly is that story like the cars his indie car was this engine from last last generation

It wasn't competitive and then they kept exploding so you could get stuck with that

Yeah

Uh major depreciation disorder when the sti was discontinued. I thought jack

Can you can you check this? Uh, so it's some some sold listings on cars and bids when when the sti was discontinued

I thought it would hold value or possibly appreciate

Looking at bat and cars and bids. I've seen many go for underwhelming figures

In some cases

WRX's hold value better. Why does nobody seem to care about stis?

interesting question

Part of it is that subaru

Hasn't really done anything to make younger people excited about stis. You don't know me about subarus like they don't have a real

Like they're not rallying right now

Let's see. Let's go. Okay. Hang on. Let's go for uh, can we

Results let's go for

Uh, recent sold for so there's a type r.a

13,300 miles 40,000

2016 one owner

15,000. I mean

I would say

1200 well, I would say this they don't really appear to be

Collectible they appear to be fun cars to drive

that

You know will hold

Value sort of well to a point. Wow. Look at me. This is 10,000 miles on a car. That's 11 years old

Yeah, and it's 25 grand. Yeah, I mean that's not great. That is so low. It's a thousand miles a year less

And I mean actually look that would be that if you if that sale went through which it doesn't look like it did

But that would be a good buy

A 10,000 mile sti for 25 grand

Well, then but then we get anything is the mileage too low where you need to fix things because it wasn't driven enough

I think there's enough miles. I think I think a thousand miles a year is enough

Miles that you don't have to fix things from not from lack of use

I'd have to look at the production numbers. I think for me and

A lot of it is that the car's performance

Hasn't really hasn't changed drastically enough

So you have you don't just have the supply of like the most recent generation

You have the supply of effectively 0 4 10 now

And they all make almost the same horsepower

The transmissions I think are the same. It's a good six speed

So they if it ain't broke don't fix it and they don't break so they don't have to change it

But you go, okay. Well, basically you're picking an appearance package. Which one do you like the best?

But I think that means the supply number is really high

And so they're not that collectible and I think they get driven a lot, which is good

it and also like they have

Like they have a floor

You know like right here like

Yeah, like like like a running driving non salvage one is always going to be worth like 15 16 grand, right?

So

You know

You can use that number of knowing where the floor is to buy one used and enjoy

You know, yeah going on. Hey, well if I pay

25 000 for

That that 10 year old one, you know, I could put 100 000 miles on it and as long as I don't crash it or otherwise break it

I'm only going to lose, you know, whatever 8 000 bucks in depreciation. Yeah, so it's not going to cost me anything to buy

So all these collectible ones are fucking in the wrapper, right? Those are those are all

Or or like a 22 b or something but like pretty much, you know, so so

They're just not investment grade cars, which is okay. It means buy drive and enjoy

It also looks like

The ones that are selling for more money is according to bat are the you know, oh four to oh sixes

With like and hot guy with low miles. Yeah, but anything that's newer than that

That's when you're getting even though and that one's when you're getting into like the 20s in the 30s. Yeah

Uh, yeah, I mean those does oh four to oh six cars are oh four to seven

I mean those are really iconic. Yeah cars and so I I'm not sure the

Like if you said to me if you said to me matt, what does a 2005

STi look like I go well it has these headlights and this wing

If you said what's a 2016 look like compared to a 2014 like I probably I couldn't really tell you

Uh, I couldn't I think we kind of stopped paying attention to them and um

Yeah, because that was after the egg that was after the the hatchback. Yeah, yeah

Queer shift and gears says

Thoughts on the car community using delete as a verb or noun for removing or swapping something. Where did it come from?

um

I mean you go back to like the 60s and you could have

A air conditioning delete or or radio delete packages for muscle cars and shit

Definitely. I think what what they say is I guess on the e 500 discussion

You said we're deleting the wood trim and swapping it with all wood. So that's just like

Maybe just you know, I mean language changes. It evolves a lot as time goes on

But I think I literally said it like that though. That's me speaking very swappily. Yeah, we're not deleting. We're swap

We're changing. We're changing wood to metal. I think delete mostly means I didn't choose this option that was available

You know if like the uh, no delete is a pro is not just not getting an option

It's there are options to remove it. Yeah. Yeah, that's delete

You're you're selecting to take away the thing that was included. Correct. Like you could get like in the gt4

You could get air conditioning delete things like that

um

Okay, when

Uh bay baymobile says when equipped with an automatic gearbox the mazda rx8 cannot reach 7 000 rpm

In order to open an intake valve

That would otherwise be able to open with a car equipped with a manual because the red line is higher

This among other things caused engines to fail and sully the reputation of the car

Have there been other cars that when equipped with certain options drastically change reliability of that car

Oh, yeah, that's a pretty unique situation. No for sure. I mean, there's like for it like like this

in this

Descript like if you had a car that had a shitty automatic transmission

Well, yeah, if you got the automatic transmission, it would be worse than if you got the manual, which was fine

Right. Well, the auto is the thing that breaks. This is interesting because the the

Transmission selected is causing engines to fail versus the transmission failing

Well, we just we just talked about this the f1 pumps in the single clutch gearboxes like of a stick shift ferrari 360

Is drastically more reliable

When it's driven properly and not smoke the clutch than a fucking

A paddle-shifted one way more reliable

But not because the gearbox ruins the engine. It's because the gearbox isn't reliable. You know, so

those for sure

The wranglers 4 by e any any chrysler hybrid or whatever stilantis hybrid product for sure

Yeah, I mean over complicating usually leads to a reduction in reliability, right? Yeah

The back in the day the Cadillac, uh cylinder deactivation from the 80s

Oh, because anyway the v8 642 or whatever it was. I think v8 64 it was called

It was essentially cylinder deactivation. It was just a mess. Wasn't that happening with an ls generation like it because it

Deactivates you're not getting that wash the gasoline cleaning off the cylinders and stuff. It could have been. Yeah, not not sure

um

Okay

Uh, let's see koji koji also says it seems that the latest trend in bmw track cars is swapping in the b48 turbo four cylinder

Which I think was in like the 230 and bmw

Uh shops are doing this swap and a tune into e 36's and getting cars that put down

Faster track times than the cars equipped with s 54s and ls's lighter weight better chassis balance. Okay

Uh, if you were one of the people tracking their older bmw and chasing faster lap times, would you do this?

I don't I don't see why not if it actually worked

This makes total sense if all I'm chasing is lap times

Then you will always go for the thing that will make you faster

Yeah reduce weight move the weight balance back sure liability stays the same power especially with

Power and bop and all these different class rules then you go. Okay automatic gearbox. Am I hitting the horsepower number that we're allowed to have?

Yes, so if I can do that with less weight and less consumption

And better weight balance the answer is yes, and if you can literally do the whole powertrain like that b 48 with the zf

Eight speed automatic gearbox like I just did a fucking endurance race with that gearbox

I will absolutely race with that gearbox. That is a

Excellent automatic transmission for racing like does exactly what it's fucking told

So if I was doing it, I would actually ditch the stick also and take the automatic. Yeah

Fast back to the future

Assuming it can be done oem and has good margins

Is there a market for a shop that creates and sells cross trek converted stis?

Are you turning an sti into a cross trek or a cross trek into an sti? That's a very good question

I assumed it would be swapping stuff sti stuff into the cross. Well

Cross trek converted

No, I think it would be you're right. That's that direction

So you're just lifting an sti lifting an sti. Well, there's that market truly exists. That's called rally suspension

Yeah, and that's much simpler than swapping sti parts into a cross trek probably

But but I don't know who who the let's say a cross trek is a 35 000 car. I don't I don't know

Let's say an sti

Well, it is a 50 000 car

right

So are you gonna get somebody?

Who really wants to spend like 75 000 dollars on a Subaru?

I I don't think you are the market's very small for this kind of thing. Yeah

And in in either direction if you want to make a cross trek faster

There's probably cheaper ways to do it. Just put a turbo a small one on that thing

Or maybe you can just swap the engine but to make a full sti version of cross trek

With you know trans and fitment and all that stuff would probably be tough and expensive

Yeah, I blow horns. Why are many automotive news outlets referring to an upcoming 9 11 gt car?

That's been tested recently as a gt3 rs claiming it's going turbo as opposed to na for the next gen isn't it obviously a gt2 rs testing

I think you're right. I think all these people are saying the next gen gt3 rs is going turbo to get people to click on their

Shit when in reality the spy shots are very obviously a gt2 rs the question for me

Is is the gt2 rs going to be hybrid?

Or will it be just the twin

Like last generation twin turbo or a juiced up version of the three liter?

Uh, which we know can make big power. So that's really the question for me

It is also possible that the next gen gt car

gt3 rs might have to be

Uh turbocharged like it or it might have to have a hybrid assist system in it

Um or have something like i'm not sure how long they can keep building that engine

I think they're gonna try but I don't know if they can yeah

I think a lot of people when these changes happen

They'll say why is Porsche or why is car company doing this and the answer is almost always not because they want to because they have to

Uh focus st lover. What would you consider to be the best car for the snow under 35k?

No modifications

I mean whichever one you can just get snow tires from the factory that I get like the best car in the snow

By the way, we live in los angeles. I have a very limited

amount of time to drive cars and snow like I

Testing cars and snow is a real treat. I love doing it. But like that doesn't happen here. So

but like

And all any all-wheel drive car

Let's let's game it out. It'll probably be a Subaru

My my thought went to outback of some kind

preferably like the last gen where they're a little bit smaller than uh

You know like essentially like a cross track or a will it like

Has the it has it has all-wheel drive that's longitudinal not haldex based so there's a real

Transfer case real longitudinal, you know all-wheel drive and and you just put good tires on that

Yeah, I think I think cross track with snow tires is the answer because you have ground clearance

You have a simple engine. It's not turbocharged

And the the diff situation is simpler than some of the front-wheel drive based cars. So

Elderly woman behind the wheel of a small car

Yeah, you recently said that no production cars have ever really scared you. What about the opposite?

Have car have any cars just been way too easy to drive at the limit?

GT Rs

GT Rs are boring. Yeah, our 35 GT Rs are boring

Yeah, now the limits have gotten higher with cars like that because its power's gone up. So, you know a new

9-11 turbo s

Which is what the GT are competed with when it came out is so fast the limits the

Kinetic energy and the momentum like if you lose it at that speed the speeds capable would be pretty dangerous

Yeah, so it's gotten harder, but um, usually things that have too much tire and not enough horsepower are also very easy to drive

I mean odd is pretty easy to drive at the limit

Yeah, I mean that way, but there there's yeah, there's cars with more tire than power super brz ts

Sure, that thing that thing. Yeah sticky tightly sprung. Yeah, no guts

um

gr

Corollas are really easy to drive at the limit particularly the automatic transmission equipped ones there

You could fucking lap and lap and lap and lap and lap like the golf are I mean

I the golf are is an incredibly competent car that is not particularly exciting you I could get to

Within a quarter second a lap of what that car could ever possibly do on like lap three

And now what do I learn? You know, so that's

That's kind of like where that those types of cars could be like boring is on a track because on a road

Well, every the scenery changes, you know

So every every corner is a little bit of a new adventure

But on a track where you have the same 12 corners over and over and you can figure out what a car can do like right quick

Now you're just now you're boring

um

Maybe uh blue did that one. Oh, yeah that yeah, uh blue shoes and blue crews

I

Thinking about that combination that would be a good, uh, that would be a good like only fans channel

Like for like a for like a couple a couple when it was like getting giving road head constantly

Yep, for a while. Remember there was like when fsd like first came out. There was a bunch of like fsd porn

Yep, i'm glad they've stopped doing that

Uh thoughts on the discontinuation of the model s and x that is um the x

I I I could see but what's crazy is

That they don't like have a new one like there's no

They're just canceling this car these two cars and it's not like there's

They're replacing them with other cars

Like they're actually talking about building this dumb fucking robot thing

What are we what are we doing right? They say they're gonna shift production at the fremont factory from model s and x to robots

To the optimist robots and whatnot that are very real and that we're all gonna fucking have

for sure

That is just crazy to me. I wonder what I don't think the x has been selling well for a long time

Yeah, so getting rid of that makes sense. I am curious. I'll look it up while you chat like what the model s sales have done

Or has the x have the x. Um, sorry have the three and the y

Eclipse the s so much the s is such an old car and it's still expensive the x is fucking stupid, but

To not have replacements

Very true. That is a unique thing that most of our companies don't do. That is crazy, you know

And and and not only that I mean they they we know for a fact they don't really have any next gen

Plans for for model y or model three either

They're

I guess they don't want to build cars anymore. I mean it turns out that like

You know most

Shocking that most of elan's bullshit was fucking bullshit because

because this

You know, it was supposed to

It was supposed to make transportation

Fucking greener. It was that was gonna be the thing and now they've they've rolled back all these environmental fucking regulations

Thanks to the fucking guy that elan effectively guaranteed got into office

And now tesla's just not going to build cars anymore. It's weird according to good car back car dot net the annual sales for the model s

peaked at 90,000 in 2022 although they were going down 90,000. That's weird. That's when um,

That's when the plaid came out. Okay. That was the place hold a lot of plaids, but since then

Uh, it's 26,000 in 23 15,024 9,025. So pretty steep decline

Geez, I mean that's falling

Really fast. Yeah, so they had their time kind of the early uh teens selling in the 20s

That's not that many. I mean the average

I mean if you get rid of the 90, I mean it's like 22,000 a year

So I think I think the three and the white but it is weird

I get it getting rid of sedans fords done that but to get rid of your biggest largest suv

Well, and you're and not and not have a fucking is something I don't think another car company would do

That's crazy. I mean

They're going so hard at this ai thing. I mean it it

Either it's spectacularly successful and regular people are deeply fucked

Or it goes spectacularly wrong

And regular people will get to laugh in five minutes before realizing that in the entire economy was propped up on this

And we're all deeply fucked

Propped up on the I think well, I mean, yes, that that would hurt the mag 7 and you know

SPY and all that stuff

I think the bigger question is if the robots don't work out for him in terms of manufacturing

Does tesla crater down to being you know valued like what a car company should be valued at and if they succeed

Does he actually have an army of robots to do his bidding?

I mean first off they will not there's there are already

Domestic robots. I have like four of them in my kitchen right now

I have a dishwasher a washing machine the dryer a fucking automatic coffee maker

I have all kinds of robots that do things already

They're not shaped like people because they'd be worse at their job if they were shaped like fucking people

Yeah, car companies already use robots to do specialized things

Yeah, but a human is more versatile in skills than something bolted to the ground that can like move a thing or weld a thing

But it's like so bad at things it is it's so bad at doing things. Yeah like

Like it's like you the reason our eyes are good is because they're connected to our brain

The reason our fucking our hands can do things is because they're all connected to our brain without an actual human brain

You fucking can't do any of this shit

Well, it depends on what you program it to do. I mean computers can a general AI robot is what he's trying to sell

Yeah, you can't that's not a thing. You can't have that

It's I don't I feel like I'm fucking and taking crazy pills

Everyone's like when he has robots like what the fuck do you mean when he uh, they're this is not real falling you around

And doing your dishes for you. Yeah, dude. None of this is real

uh

Collin sieb uh is reading the power of now

Have the lessons from the book stuck or faded in your daily life

The only thing that sticks is to be an observer of yourself

I read this book like three years ago. And so it's like

it's essentially like

If you're if you're having thoughts negative thoughts about yourself

The idea is that you

Step out and become an observer of that and go, huh. I'm having those thoughts

and you know like

and and to

Observe yourself having the thoughts and sort of become that

separate from it

The first half of the power now is really good

Then the second half it really veers into jesus land and you can let that shit go

But um, if you have an overactive brain, you can't turn it off. That's a good place to start

um

My cat's name is bethany. Hi bethany

Uh, when you're on a road trip, what gas station chains do you prefer to stop at if it's available? Um

I don't really give a shit unless it's

Unless it's like not a brand name of gas like I try not to stop at gas. I've never heard of

um

I like a good store though. I like a good selection at a store

You know, I like I like a

I like a big travel stop given the choice, but I don't I don't really care that much

My needs are pretty small. Yeah, it's like water

caffeine if they have the tea great, uh, and then

One one quest bar and I'm fine. Yeah, I mean, I'm not I don't poop at gas stations unless it's an emergency

And I don't like to roll like that. I prepare for my road trips

My road trip really begins about an hour before I get on the road

There's a there's a there's a poop and then there's a safety poop, you know

But that means it does change with wifely presence like I you know and sarah

She'll she'll go to the bathroom at the gas station bathroom and she'll come out and be like that was gnarly

Yeah, it she'll go you are so lucky that you don't have to do that. Yeah, but if you don't there's no gas station

Well, gas station bathroom reviews is not an app. I've come across in order to a month. It's called grinder. Yeah, it probably is

Um, the only things I don't like are the super super tiny gas station where they have like eight drinks and two chips

You know, it's just and it's what they have room for. Yeah, I try to avoid those

Yeah, I

It's hard it's hard to tell but it's hard to tell from outside

But I really don't like it when you go especially in the midwest or the south to a really big gas station store

It's fucking big

No sparkling water

They'll have like 30 club soda 30 kinds. No, they don't even have that shit

They have no bubbly water in this bitch. They'll like 25 kinds of regular water flavor, but no bubbles. Come on guys

Get with a fucking program

um, johnny e v gearberman of all of the

Uh

Pedestrian rentals or loners you drove in 2025. What was the top five? I don't have five regular cars

Yeah, we rented a chrysler pacifica

Those are good for racing. That was that was good. I had a kia carnival

I rented in texas

I didn't like driving it as much as I liked the pacifica to be honest with you

Um

I drove a ram

1500 that my

Step dad-in-law owns and that was nice. It sounds good. Yeah good truck. Sure. I drove a

What else have I driven I liked my dad's t lexus tx. I saw I've seen a couple around here

Yeah, my dad's lexus tx. I like I like a lot. That's pretty cool. I think that's a good one

Um

We have a

Privileged journalist lifestyle truly like we drive we drive the sporty stuff

Yeah, and when we travel we're usually driving press cars or we're there to drive something else

So there's not a lot of like rentals or like regular ass cars coming through. Yep

um

Uh, christ yeah helps you christ. Well, I got we have to be done too christ from colorados as why do some

factory facturers

Not put emphasis on the tactile feel of the paddle shifters

It should feel like pulling the trigger on a gun mechanical and crisp

Some of them feel like you're pushing a button on a $15 coffee maker

I don't think very many people use the shift paddles

and I think that if

Uh, if if they want something to cheap out on

Having that mechanism you're describing

That could bring the cost of that shifter paddle from 15 cents to 40 cents and that could be

Actsed out of any meeting. I mean even Porsche

Porsche has multiple shifter paddles

You know, if you get a if you get a macan or something and has the paddles

That will feel different from a gt's three paddles

And then the gt3 rs has the the optional super clicky paddles like there's an optional

Crazy paddle set for the gt3 rs. That's like out of the race car. That's crazy, but it costs like real money

um

I mean, so why?

Because money because it's just an easy thing to cheap out on and they don't think very many people are going to use them

If I I was just driving the the corvette ira and had carbon paddles

I have to think carbon paddles feel kind of cheap. I don't think they feel that good. They feel like plastic

But but they're carbon. They're not plastics. I don't know

um

Okay, wait mustang geek says the re uh regarding the c8 vets rear view mirror screen

Have you considered that a rear view screen lacks a traditional mirrors?

depth perception because it's literally a 2d device I

I mean, yes, I am aware of that but that's not

That's not what I was talking about what I was talking about was the clarity of the image

Not the depth perception. I wasn't complaining about that. I was saying that I could I could see in my digital rear view mirror

That there's five cars behind me in the other lane. I can see five cars

Whereas in I then look in the side view mirror, which is real glass and I go that's a bmw3 series a forward explorer

Anise on versa. I'm not I'm not talking depth perception. I was talking about the clarity of the image and being able to identify what's there

um now the question

Do you think that rear view screens like yoke steering wheels sound like a great idea in theory?

But in practice expose massive shortcomings for actual driving

I do and I think that's a good way to put it

But I don't think it's a hundred percent right because I think it there are benefits

It's not all negative

Like there's there are certain things about the camera

Like the performance in low light and the fact that it's not it's independent of your window being dirty

You can change the the field of view of that camera a little bit to suit your yourself

The way that adjusting a mirror wouldn't produce the same result

So there are some benefits, but I just think there's also some very interesting drawbacks. It's not a win-win

Uh, can you scroll down? Yeah, some people have speculated like I looked up

How much what the resolution of the human eye would be if you could measure it like that

In one way of measuring it would be like 12,000 by 12,000 for a picture

So that's obviously much higher resolution. Yeah way bigger way beyond 4k. Yeah

um

By turbo curious

History has many examples of car companies that tried and failed in america

Including most of the french ones. What car brands currently not doing business in the u.s. Could succeed here

Oh b yd easy. Yeah b yd

And it's an appliance that drives people around and they don't have weird unpronounceable names

It's just three letters american can americans can pronounce

They would undercut everybody

I mean people would be like wait a minute what if they were priced here the way they are in other places

It would undercut everyone. Yeah always depends on tariff adjustment. Sure

um

I've not read this. I've I some I mean I appreciate that you're asking about a bill, but I don't under I didn't read it

I don't know it is um

um

Tiny japanese cobra last question then we're done says not everything needs to be fast to be cool

What cars have the highest dollar to horsepower ratio?

Uh crazy 21 window volkswagen buses come to mind at 200,000 for 50 horsepower

How far back you want to go?

I mean that car we drove in the fucking veteran run was like a 250,000 car. I think it made six horsepower

Yeah, I mean if you go old and collectible and super historic

What would a boat a bends patent motor wagon cost at auction millions and millions of dollars and it makes like a half of a horsepower

So it's just like old go just keep going old and you'll you'll end up in something that cost the first

Yeah, then first mercedes electric wagon thing. That's not what you're talking about

Yeah, no like the patent motor wagon a little three-wheeled fucking thing with the big flywheel you started with like that's like a horsepower

Were their first electric car that mrs. Ben's drove mrs. Ben's drove like that would be

Yeah, 800 million dollars if you could find it. Yeah, something historically significant

You know thing that makes two horsepower is probably it. Yeah

Thanks everybody good show today. Thank you to our patrons for such good questions

Thank you to everyone else for playing along with us

If you want to join the fun patreon.com slash the smoking tire podcast and we'll see you back here in a couple of days

Bye

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