We Need to Talk About Porsche Pricing...
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Car
Rolls-Royce Ghosts
The Rolls-Royce Ghost is a super-luxurious car that is all about comfort and style. People talk about it because it’s one of the fanciest cars you can buy, often seen as a symbol of wealth.
Concept
Woodward Dream Cruise
The Woodward Dream Cruise is a big car show that happens every year in Michigan. People bring their classic cars to show them off and drive along a special road called Woodward Avenue.
Car
Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car that many people recognize. It's known for being fast and well-designed, and it's been around for a long time, making it very popular among car enthusiasts.
Term
Porsche fatigue
Porsche fatigue happens when people get tired of seeing too many new Porsche cars or feel that the prices are too high. This can make them less interested in buying a Porsche.
Car
AMG GT
The AMG GT is a luxury sports car from Mercedes-Benz that is designed for speed and performance. It's a popular choice for those looking for a powerful and stylish car.
Term
99 one
'99 one' is a shorthand way to refer to a specific generation of the Porsche 911 car that was made from 2011 to 2019. It's popular among car enthusiasts.
Term
manual transmission
A manual transmission is when you have to change gears yourself while driving, using a clutch pedal and gear stick. It gives you more control over how the car drives.
Term
hybrid
A hybrid car uses both a gas engine and an electric motor. This helps save fuel and is better for the environment than just using gas.
Car
Porsche Macan
The Porsche Macan is a small luxury SUV known for being fun to drive. It's made by Porsche, a brand famous for sports cars.
Term
MSRP
MSRP is the price that the car maker suggests you pay for a new car. It's like a suggested price, but you might be able to negotiate it down when buying.
Term
997
The 997 is a version of the Porsche 911 that was made between 2004 and 2012. It has some new features and a different look compared to the earlier models.
Term
entry level car
An entry-level car is a basic and affordable vehicle that is usually the first choice for new car buyers. It has fewer features and is cheaper than more expensive models.
Term
PDK
PDK is a type of transmission used in some Porsche cars that helps change gears quickly and smoothly. It makes driving more enjoyable and can improve speed.
Concept
emissions
Emissions are the harmful gases that cars release into the air. Different countries have rules to limit how much pollution cars can produce, especially in Europe where the rules are very strict.
Car
Porsche Taycan
The Porsche Taycan is a fancy electric car that is really fast and has a lot of cool tech features. It's important because it shows that even luxury brands are making electric cars now.
Concept
hypercar
A hypercar is an extremely fast and expensive car that has the best technology and performance. These cars are usually made in small numbers and are very special.
Car
Porsche 919 Spider
The Porsche 919 Spider is a special race car made by Porsche that used both gasoline and electric power to go fast. It was designed for racing events that last a long time, like 24-hour races.
Car
Porsche Cayenne
The Porsche Cayenne is a luxury SUV made by Porsche. It has versions that use hybrid technology, which means they can use both gas and electric power.
Car
Porsche Panamera
The Porsche Panamera is a fancy four-door car made by Porsche. It also has hybrid versions that use both gas and electric power.
Car
Porsche Boxster
The Porsche Boxster is a small sports car that you can drive with the top down. It's known for being fun to drive and has a stylish design.
Car
Porsche 928
The Porsche 928 is a sports car made by Porsche that was popular in the late 70s to mid-90s. It had a unique look and was known for being powerful and comfortable.
Term
$99,911
The price $99,911 is a clever way to make a car seem cheaper than $100,000, even though it's very close. It's a marketing trick to attract buyers.
Term
mid-engine
A mid-engine car has its engine located in the middle of the car, which helps it handle better and be more balanced when driving. It's a common design for sports cars.
Car
Porsche Cayman
The Porsche Cayman is a sporty car that is fun to drive and has a great design. It's a bit less expensive than other Porsches but still gives you a taste of luxury and speed.
Car
Porsche Career T
The Porsche Carrera GT is a super-fast sports car that many people dream of owning. It’s special because it has a very powerful engine and is considered one of the best cars Porsche has ever made.
Car
Porsche Carrera T
The Porsche Carrera T is a special version of the 911 that is lighter and aimed at people who love to drive. It has fewer extra features to make it more fun and sporty.
Brand
Aston Martin
Aston Martin is a famous car brand that makes luxury sports cars. They are known for their stylish designs and high performance.
Car
Aston Vantage V12
The Vantage V12 is a powerful sports car made by Aston Martin. It has a big engine and is designed for high performance, making it exciting to drive.
Term
Tiptronic
Tiptronic is a feature in some automatic cars that lets you change gears manually if you want to, while still having the option to drive it like a regular automatic.
Car
Toyota Land Cruiser
The Toyota Land Cruiser is a tough SUV that can go off-road and last a long time. People like it because it's reliable and can handle rough conditions.
Term
row some gears
'Rowing some gears' means changing gears in a car, especially in a manual car where you do it yourself. It's about enjoying the driving experience.
Term
cup car
A cup car is a special type of race car made for racing events. They are usually based on regular cars but have many upgrades to make them faster and better for racing.
Car
Toyota RAV4
The Toyota RAV4 is a small SUV that's known for being dependable and having a lot of space inside. It's a good option for families or anyone who needs a versatile vehicle.
Car
Toyota Camry
The Toyota Camry is a popular family car that is known for being dependable and easy to drive. Many people like it because it’s comfortable and doesn’t usually have many problems.
Car
Porsche 996 Turbo
The Porsche 996 Turbo is a powerful version of the 911 sports car that has a turbocharged engine, making it faster and more capable in various driving conditions.
Term
battery cost
Battery cost is how much you have to pay for a new battery, especially in electric cars. Some batteries can be very expensive, depending on the car and the type of battery used.
Brand
Tesla
Tesla is a car company that makes electric cars. They are known for their high-tech features and long-range batteries.
LIVE
We are here to bring you everything and anything surrounding Porsche.
I'm Mike. I'm Aaron.
And this is Peacart Talk.
Welcome to another episode of Peacart Talk. I'm Mike.
And I'm Aaron.
Welcome to 2026, first pod of this year.
Let's go ahead and take our people and get rolling.
Let's do it.
And Leslie Ann, Chris S. Kines, Richard P. Aaron L. Matthew G. Sean H. and Nick F.
Thank you guys so, so much. Thanks for coming into the new year with us.
If you want to become a member, go ahead and get on the website.
Join, become a Patreon member. We would really appreciate that.
It would help boost us in 2026.
And put us in places where we can give you some reporting and show you some stuff
and talk about some cool stuff and bring some more cool people on, right?
I do like going places.
Yeah, we do too.
And I think the factor I think a lot of people think they're like,
Oh, well, you guys travel, you guys do this.
And it's like, it's still our time.
Like, you know, it is fun, but at the same time, it is, you know, we both have jobs.
It's still, we got to take time off to go.
We have to prep. We have to do that stuff.
I'm not bitching and moaning.
I'm just saying it's not like some other YouTubers or some other.
It's not the full-time job.
Yeah, or the podcast people that are kind of like, yeah, we make a couple hundred
grand, of course, like this is our full-time gig.
And they still complain about it.
Yeah. And they can be creative.
And they're like, we're not traveling to there and we're not doing that.
Anyways, so current events, what's happening this weekend?
As you listen to this would be DRT weekend in Miami.
DRT.
We've talked about it.
DRT.
If you guys don't know, we've been several times.
It's a great event.
We're not making it again this year.
You know, ever since they moved it for us, this is just us specific.
It's not that we don't like going.
We love it.
It's really a time crunch because it's the week before Rolex.
So I'll spin into that next because that's the next current thing to go
back to back for us.
It's just so tough.
We were doing it obviously early in PCAR talk days because we were just
trying to get to so much stuff.
We could to get that out to you guys after you've been to an event a couple
of times, then you start to get into a, if it doesn't butt up against
another event, then you end up, you know, going to it.
But the problem is the same thing that happens in October where we have to
pick and choose some things that we end up going to and not going to.
And people are like, Oh, are you going to this?
Oh, we can't because we're hosting a rally.
I'm going to be at a rally.
There's going to be another thing.
This is kind of like that.
But the month of January is not filled with a bunch of stuff.
It just happens.
They roll it right in.
It just goes together too, too much.
I mean, I know the thing that it's gotten for us, it wouldn't even be just
attending what's at the event like before.
I don't think it was the last time, but maybe the time before it,
I get a call from Michael.
Hey, I know we said Thursday.
We got to be there Tuesday.
And then so now we're there, you know, earlier.
This is before his back was evens back.
Yeah.
Getting the tour and doing things like that.
And so we, and that's better for us anyways to capitalize because we'd like
to have Danny, which is not in the States.
He's in Tokyo right now.
So like we wouldn't be able to do that.
So there's a lot of things outside to make it worth our while to do that.
And then be gone for over a week.
Yeah.
And then come back and then do Rolex, which is almost another.
And you're smoked when you come back from that because we're both like exhausted
because you're there early mornings, if you don't know, and then like long evenings.
And then it's get up and do it again day after day.
And we joked around about it.
If you're a long time listener, back when we had Alan Sunil and all that stuff on
when it was basically just a Friday, Saturday, Sunday event,
we joked around about it being a week.
We're going to do, oh, DRT week.
This is the first year where it's a full week.
Like it actually started on Sunday with their cars and coffee.
And then their track days roll out.
And then they have like open houses and VIP events rolling up.
I mean, it's the event to go to.
If you like Porsche stuff and you're on these ghosts or anything close to it.
Totally agree.
It's very, very well curated.
I hope that we can, you know, obviously we'll have to.
We'll make an extra year.
We'll make, because it turns into a thing where this is just going to be it,
where we can plan for it a little bit.
Because again, in the past, it always used to be a toss up.
Sometimes it happened in April.
Sometimes it would happen in March.
Sometimes it would happen in February.
Sometimes it happened and it moved around.
So the last couple of years it's been consistent.
So I'm thinking now this is what it's going to be.
It's going to be on this week right before Rolex, which really does suck for us.
But maybe we'll, you know, still pop in.
Yeah.
We'll do, we'll do like a, you know, a half schedule or something.
We won't be there from obviously cars and coffee, probably not make the track days.
But be there for the meat of what, what, you know, towards the tail end of the week,
you know, hit a, hit a Thursday, Friday, you know, Saturday, Sunday thing, come back
and then go to Rolex.
Yeah, I definitely want to do that.
I like check our, we haven't talked about offline, but like look at our calendar and go,
okay, let's hit this, this and this this year.
And then this, this and this next year.
And then kind of make an evolving schedule.
Yeah.
We do need to do a little bit better job with that.
And then the issue with that though is obviously things change.
So when you try this life, yeah.
And then there's usually, sometimes there's new stuff that pops up or there's stuff we've
been wanting to go to that we haven't gone to like, you know, Moda Miami's semi new.
We will still want to go to that, you know, and that's kind of like a, an overall event.
That's not a Porsche specific event.
To take place of our Emilia.
And I think that would make sense for me.
You still end up going to Emilia like last week.
I don't know.
It's always like the 11th hour.
Like, you know, on like what?
Wednesday night, like 10, they're like 10 p.m. Kevin hits you up.
He's like, Hey, you won't want to stab my place and go to Emilia.
Yeah.
All right.
And then you end up going like me.
I'm like, man, I ain't going.
Um, not that I don't like that event, but we talked about it even like you went last year
and we kind of got your reflection on it where it's not what it used to be.
No, I think we need to have, I mean, I don't think, I don't know that Tampa has it.
I mean, Tampa definitely doesn't have anything like that.
Like there's nothing in between where we could probably do a couple of shop things here and there.
We can make something.
But I mean, there's also really, there's a lot of cool stuff like that up and down the East Coast.
There's like a badass event in Connecticut that a lot of people go to every year.
That's kind of like Emilia, but it's in Connecticut and there's a lot of cool stuff there.
There's the one forgot what it's called now.
But yeah, somebody was telling me about it.
It's on the lawn.
Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot of cool stuff we haven't been do that we still need to go check out.
I'm still going to, you know, personally, I've always, you know, I have some family in Michigan now
and I've always wanted to do the Windward Dream Cruise.
I know that's not a, you know, it's a car enthusiast thing.
It's not necessarily a European thing.
You know, you can always find a stolen Hellcat on that Facebook for a hundred bucks that you can use for a day or eight.
But yeah, I still want to do that.
And I probably will do that maybe in the next, you know, couple of years or so.
I don't know about that.
I mean, but anyways, so Rolex is the weekend after we will be at that event.
We are always at that event.
That's such a good event for us.
And I'd be interviewing a race driver from a racing.
Yeah.
Stay tuned.
Yeah, we'll see.
Dynator.
Well, I just, I just got an email.
So.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
That's that's news to you.
Breaking breaking news.
Breaking right now.
Like literally as we start set up, he was waiting to hear back and I guess he has heard back.
So fast.
So we'll see.
I mean, what a better place to like, we have done multiple interviews there, some good,
some bad.
I mean, the one that always sticks out is Porsche, Porsche Motorsports engineer that we had trackside.
That was just the worst ever.
Have you heard that episode?
Please drop us a comment and let us know if that was the worst one because that's probably
been like that poor guy.
He's like the nicest guy.
Oh yeah, for sure.
He just, I think he was just so ready for like race stuff.
He was ready and he, you know, he's a friend of a friend and also was like interested in
being on the podcast because of what we did and us being enthusiasts and, you know, we
even sent him the prep stuff.
That's usually what we do to all of our guests, at least so they're blindsided and I just
think his head wasn't in it because remember he was like, I want to do over like afterwards
because that was so terrible.
I was like, dude, you got to live with it, man.
We're a one and done type of crew.
No way.
It's raw.
Ready.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, yeah.
But then we've had Patrick Long there, which is cool.
Right.
And that we got, we got him while he was still racing before he retired.
He was still racing then.
Like that's, I think for us, that's like a highlight for me at Daytona.
It's true because we caught Patrick when he was still racing, you know, not afterwards.
Like during the race.
Yeah.
Like, like in between stents, right?
Yeah.
Which is really cool.
And he made time for us and that just shows you what kind of guy Patrick Long is.
So very, very, very, very cool.
So that's what's ahead on the agenda.
And then there's kind of like a little bit of, you know, sleepiness till spring, right?
Kick off the year big with the Emsa race and it's going to be exciting.
It always starts the year off.
I feel correctly.
Yeah.
At least for, for me in the race sense, because, you know, you take a break and, you know,
unlike a lot of sports, it's not a lot of time off, you know, for them, you know, last,
what, last race, even though it's not an Emsa race, it's a WEC race.
But what, um, in Dubai is what in late October.
I think so.
I feel like it's maybe November.
It may be pushing out.
But yeah.
They get that.
They get like basically two months because they're at the roar testing.
And they're probably testing after that Dubai race too.
I'm sure.
I'm sure.
And then the chair's a little bit of testing and then.
There's some downtime because I think, I think for the most part, most of them are
off all of December at least.
And then they're right back at it.
Um, but I mean, you race cars for a living, can't really complain about it.
It would be worse.
Pretty cool job.
Um, so yeah, super excited about that weather.
Always unpredictable.
Um, for once, it looks like it might be a very in between.
Yeah.
All the weather.
It's going to be a little chill and a little warm.
Evenings.
Evenings in the fifties, seventies during the day.
It's because I kept touring about getting a smokeless fire pit because I'm tired of
smelling like just wet, wet wood.
Yeah.
And then Kevin sold is our, our home base.
So we don't have a home base anymore.
And now we just had to go conquer Mark Probanics.
Back to what we used to be doing.
We're transient again, like just roaming around, visiting people, using their campsites
and their ice.
And I mean, we'll have our own ice, but you know what I'm saying.
I can, I can share.
I'm going to be there.
No idea.
Um, but yeah, we'll be, we'll be, uh, hitting up everybody that we can.
We really saw a lot of detune this year.
We walked as more than we normally walk this year.
Um, but yeah, hopefully you guys are headed to one of those places or maybe both.
Um, if you're at Rolex, definitely come say hi to us.
We'll be there.
Um, love talking to the people.
Um, love just kind of chitchatting, you know, water cooler BS about cars, whatever, not
cars, life, whatever going on with you.
Got a new dog.
Cool.
Let's see it.
No, but, um, let's get into it.
So Porsche, this isn't a new thing.
We've been talking about price hikes with them, but I think this is a pretty good comparison.
This is kind of wild.
If you think about the time span based off of the money increase, right?
So the Porsche 911 five years ago was entry level, um, was $40,000 less than it is at
current price right now.
Like we're not talking options.
We're just talking about like entry level.
Like if you have no, like, however they send it, you pick whatever's on the wheel, you
spend no extra money, $40,000 more right now than it was five years ago.
That's insane.
If you start to think about that, because not a single person out here is probably, I
shouldn't say no one in the entire world because that's ridiculous because there are some
people, but statistically speaking, year after year, no one's pays going up that much.
I mean, so like, no, I mean, yes, this is a luxury item, but I mean, come on.
Like that's, that's ridiculous at that pace.
Like these things, like who, like, so what they've done and we've talked about it before,
so I won't heart too much, but what they've basically have done is priced out a group
of people that could afford this car.
Because I mean, think about that for a $40,000 Delta basically puts a lot of people out of
the out of play.
So people aspiring that just wanted a 911 and I'm not talking about like dream chasers
like, oh, I want to get a three RS Y sock pack.
I want to get allocation.
I'm talking about somebody just wants a 911 base model, whatever it is, maybe even an
S and wanted a new one, not an old one, because whatever goals they had or that's what they
wanted.
Like now, like people that can't afford that car, like they have that money, like, but
those people don't want base models.
So it's like they've, they've, they've taken a demographic of buyer out of their, by going
up like this, meaning like those people that were aspiring to get the base model, then
like, oh, hey, eventually I'll move up.
Like that, that stepstone, I feel like is gone.
Do you think that's intentional for it to push people to buy the S's and other, and
like everything else and lineups make sense where maybe there was a price, a price they
think it was, it could have been subsidized and then finally caught up.
But I mean, if that was the trend, the next five years, you're talking about almost on
a great on top of.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously it can't continue, but like, no, no, it shouldn't continue.
But my joke is like, are they not going to have a price increase for the next 15 or 20
years?
And they just did it all at once.
Is that what the goal is?
I know that's not the case.
I'm just being sarcastic because it's going to take that long for that number to catch
up like that's a much hot time it'll take.
Your theory might be correct in the office.
Like they're sitting around in a room and like, oh, we'll do this.
This is what's this will will make people go buy these cars.
I think but actual boots on ground like that's not happening.
What they're doing is just turning people away because people are like no longer.
I think there's just a lot of Porsche fatigue out there like for new cars, meaning the
enthusiast will always remain like that.
That'll always be constant.
Like guys like us and girls like us will always want the cars will always be interested in
them.
We'll always have to be conversating about them.
But like the look you lose that are always kind of like, oh, yeah, I always wanted a 9
11, but they're not like, I have to have a 9 11.
They're like, yeah, wow, 140 for a base or I can get like a fully loaded like, you know,
AMG GT for like $10,000, you know, $15,000 less fully loaded.
I'll just go get that or I used Daston at this point.
Like a lot of good kind of thing.
I'm just saying like they just or they'll just go get something else.
Like you use the brush up.
Yeah.
So meaning like those people that aren't enthusiasts that aren't like so bought into
like, oh, I have to have this.
Like they're I feel like they've turned a lot of people off.
But there's no way you're going to be able to get that client as a, I mean, into that
car.
You can't be like, all right, we're just going to take off.
And the people and the people who know, like there's nobody out there wanting like, I think
that there will eventually will not be a base model.
That's what I think because people like their staff, like why would anybody even buy that
at the price point that it's at the end?
And I mean, that's a good point.
And if they don't sell enough, then that could give it enough.
Like, hey, we see the numbers.
I think it's time to move on from this.
And the unfortunate part is with those numbers coming up, that means people are going to
start looking into the used market.
They're already there.
They used car market.
It's going to go up even more.
And so it's going to be.
Do you want newer used?
It's the same cost now.
Yeah.
It's already happening.
It's already happening.
So like all all of the past depreciation stuff where you think like, oh, OK, they should
be in a strong depreciation curve.
And then the bottom out and then buy at the bottom, right?
Almost anything in life where it's if you're smart consumer, that's what you try to do.
Well, what's happening is because of the price hike, it it's put that market on basically
a freeze.
It cryo freeze them in the sense of they stopped appreciating.
If anything, they're increasing, not like at a staggering amount, but I'm talking like
one to two percent.
Like I'm talking about 99 ones.
I'm talking about more modern stuff like last gen stuff where it should still be declining
pretty steadily.
That stuff is stopped declining where it's kind of like, yeah, they're still bargains,
but they're starting to go up now.
And especially the the ones that are in the 99 one range, meaning like the more enthusiast
spec ones, meaning manual transmissions, definitely hot on 99 ones.
Good luck finding one at a reasonable price.
I think 99 one dot two manual transmissions, they're still carrying close to almost 100
grand.
Oh, OK.
Because of this, though.
Yeah.
And but those are based model cars like those are like S's or those are.
But that gives you.
I mean, that just shows you where people.
Well, that's not a new thing.
Most people have a smartphone or a computer.
It does takes like two seconds to do the research.
You start looking and you're like, OK, go on the configurator.
I can buy a base model for 140 grand.
Or I can go get a 99 one dot two with low miles that maybe still CPO'd manual transmission
career S.
Oh, why wouldn't you?
You're getting more of a car like that's going to be.
You're going to get that one every day.
Yeah.
So like people are just.
And and because of that.
People feel like they're getting a deal.
You know, whatever that ask is on that car, you know, give or take 10 grand, you know,
the $90,000 range, 80,000, whatever it is.
And they're just like, hey, I'm in.
I'm still in a spec, you know, an aspect that I wanted.
And now I'm not spending.
I just think eventually what's going to do it.
What what's going to happen from a new car standpoint is it's going to eliminate models
because it's going to put people here is the 9 11.
Well, in a good way, I think it'll thin the herd from a new cars perspective.
And I think it'll help.
And again, going back to what you said, maybe this is a very discreet strategy that they're
trying to do, even though they offer the car, maybe they really don't want to sell them
anyways, even though we don't want to build that price.
Yeah.
So like it's one of those things where like, OK, hey, eventually all these are going to
be hybrid anyways, they're going to be really expensive.
We're we're cutting all of these models that the public doesn't know it.
This is all internal, but we're getting rid of all this stuff.
Like the base car is going to start at an S and that's going to be the lowest model you
can get.
And then we're going to go from there, you know, I wouldn't be shocked to see that happen
in the next three to five years, to be honest with you, because I don't see anybody having
aspirations to go in and buy a base model car at 140 grand.
I just don't see it.
Because at that point, again, those people that can afford 140 grand can afford to go
up into the 170 and 180 range.
And they'll much rather go get a car that probably has more staying power, right?
Like if money.
Because you can go find a different color you probably weren't looking at.
You can go find something that maybe had the different leather choice that you really
wanted.
Or they'll just go buy a T, right?
Because that doesn't seem to be a default answer these days.
And again, it might be strategy on them to say, hey, the new the new base is going to
be the T and that's going to be it.
Like you can go get the T and that's a manual and that car starts at fill in the blank 160.
I don't know, whatever.
I don't I haven't configured one, but we can do that later.
We'll do a little video for it.
It's a cool car.
I mean, I just think it's kind of wild that they have the capability.
Obviously, I just think they're kind of missing the boat where they still should have, especially
right now, where they're kind of at least crying about being in a financial situation
because of the electric situation and all the stuff they put themselves in by doubling
down and that could also be the reason for the price.
It's like, too, they're still trying to figure out ways to get money out of it.
Yeah, but you don't put that on the consumers, man.
You got to eat that.
Like you got to take that business loss on your own.
Like they made a bad decision.
Just trust the trust the process and then the sales will dig you out of it.
Like this will actually this is going to halt.
I think slow sales down.
It's not going to speed sales up.
If anything, what they would do is bring the price down.
Yeah.
The cheapest 911 we've ever made.
Yeah.
They'd probably be flying off the shelves with base models if they went back down on price
and they're like, hey, $199,000.
Dude, they'd fly off the shelf.
Fly off the shelf and put a manual in that car.
Yeah, make it.
Like go back to that RSA spec from back in the day.
What they should do is go gangster.
Like, hey, since it's a base model, like back in the day, like remember base model stuff
came with a manual because that was the cheapest transmission in the car.
Like that was poverty spec back in the day.
You know, if you bought a truck with a manual transmission back in the day,
go, you're broke as shit.
Aren't you?
You're like, yeah, I am.
But that's what, you know, manual is cool now.
Now it's a premium.
But they should go back.
No radio, AC optional.
Yeah, right.
Pay up for AC, right?
Like all of this stuff.
No backseats.
I mean, you could do it in a way like, I mean, it's you nickel and dime somebody.
But if there are people, probably a lot of people on the West Coast or if you lived in the north
and you're like, hey, I just want a base model manual car.
I don't need a radio.
I don't need.
I don't need AC.
Because that'd be kind of going back to the air cooled stuff like back in the day and
like a retro spec kind of car.
Yeah.
And it'd be taking a page out of the cheap airlines where you're like, oh, it's cheap.
But then, okay, we, well, you got to, you want bags on that, right?
You want to do some stuff.
Yeah.
Cool.
You want to do cooler seats, a little bit of charge.
You want to do this of charge.
You're welcome, Porsche.
Anytime you want us to come on your marketing team and turn this ship around, we can do
it for you.
I mean, that'd be cool.
I mean, it'd be interesting.
I mean, you don't even have to make us full time.
Just pay us a consulting fee.
Like, you know, we'll do like a three or four year contract.
I got the numbers drawn up already.
You know, we can sign the NDA.
Just pull out a briefcase.
We'll be NDA.
We can't even talk about it.
But I'll be like, yeah, hey, that new base model, you like it, huh?
You're like, yeah, it's badass.
We're going to need two of these.
Make sure you bless them.
You're welcome, by the way.
That's all you can say.
You can't say that you had anything to do with it.
You're welcome.
But yeah, I mean, instead of...
Is there a new way to approach the car game as this?
Porsche's always been a trendsetter, right?
Like, this is an opportunity to set a trend.
How cool would that be?
Just to, you know, go there and be like, okay, how much?
You know, almost in the sense of like, what's our production?
Yeah, what's our production cost?
What does this car cost to make?
All that kind of stuff.
And then build in your profit and then whatever that number is,
and don't be greedy, just be like, hey,
we're making a profit on the car.
That's it.
So like, our goal is volume here.
Because what if you get that guy in a 99
and you know he's going to buy another one.
So then now he does pay 150 the next time he buys the car.
Yeah.
So now you're cheapening your customers.
Plus it also has more circulating inventory, right?
For yourself as a dealer network,
where people are coming in and buying that car.
And if they drive it for a couple of years and they take care of it,
now they're trading in and trying to upgrade, right?
So you're putting your, you're, you're building your own deck.
Right.
With the base one, with the base one make,
make four cement in the portion insurance.
Do the, like, do the things.
I mean, they're just, they're just,
think about the things they've done in the last couple of years.
They have shortened their deck all the way across the board.
Make them get the Porsche credit card.
Got rid of the combustion McCann.
Got rid of the, the mid-engine cars that are combustion.
Don't even have an EV version of it yet.
I mean, they just wiped the map of the shit that they used to sell tons of.
And they're relying on all this other stuff and their price increasing,
like their halo car, like, bro, come on, what are you doing, man?
Like, yes, you made a mistake.
You owned up to your mistake.
They actually, part of this podcast, they actually came out and said that.
This is the first time ever like with the McCann.
They're like, we were wrong.
Like they were quoted for saying that.
And it's like, that's cool.
We appreciate that.
But why are you putting this stress that your company's feeling financially on
everybody else?
Because that's not the way to do it.
So like, basically, if you make a wrong direction, let's just use any other
industry and you sell a product, product A on your shelves.
Like, and you say you have a brick and mortar store.
Now you've increased that product.
Obviously, you're not going to bring it up 40,000, but let's just call it 40% for
what it is.
So your product used to cost, you know, and you have lots of products in your
store that you sell.
Let's just say it's, you know, $100 product.
Now it's $140 because you screwed up as a company and like change the direction
that you should go.
But in order to get yourself out of hot water, that you're going to put that on
the customers, like that's the exact wrong thing to do in business.
Like, you don't, you don't do that because you turn a lot of people off
because again, back in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s where information didn't
disseminate the way it does now, people were none the wiser.
You're like, why the hell is our price increase?
And people would still buy stuff.
But now everybody knows, like if you're a Porsche person, you're like, yeah, you
effed up this whole EV thing and you openly admitted all of these price increases,
then you blame tariff stuff.
And now you have a product that nobody wants to buy because it's too expensive.
Like, so you've added actually more pain to your situation.
Like you want revenue, but people don't want to buy your product because you've
out-priced them.
Because they can't see a value because there's, there's no, I mean, the same
thing I was talking about earlier, the other guy that looked at tourings and what
it cost and they're looking at price per value.
Nobody has marketed the 9-Elevens to the value that they're coming to be charged.
And the bottom line at the end of the day is people's pay has not gone up that much.
So people aren't going to go and spend that much more money on a product that's
increased that much.
It just doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, so there they've just, well, there's no way they can, people used to be able
to do man math and rationalize their decisions.
Right?
Like with that where I can budget for it and just be like, okay, cool.
That's fine.
I mean, it's staggering if you really go through, if you go through this
exercise and you're this tedious and dorky like we are, if you really go through MSRP
through the year, I mean, you're going to lose your mind.
Like if you start as you go from, just start in the 997 range.
So you don't have to go that far back.
You start in 997 and go from now, you're going to be blown away what you could get
for the price.
And I understand the price of the dollar and all that stuff.
Inflation has changed.
However, again, people's income has not increased that much.
I don't give a shit what these manufacturers say.
I know we see inflation markups everywhere.
You know, grocery store, everybody gets hit by all this stuff.
And like, people are just fatigued.
People are tired of hearing that shit.
People are consumers are tired of hearing, oh, well, you know, tariffs, oh, well this.
So like that's the crutch all of the damn manufacturers are taking and trying to sell their product to consumers.
And eventually that puts people in a hard recession, right?
People just hold their money then they're like, oh, okay, that's a price.
Cool.
So watch this, when you go out of business, this will no longer be my problem because I'm going to keep working where I'm working.
I'm just not going to spend my money on your product anymore.
So that, I mean, that's basically the only, I guess, thumbs down a consumer has is the power of where they decide to spend money to say, OK, I'm choosing not to spend my money with you now.
So.
So $99,911, like a $59,000 boxer came in scenario like.
Well, I think that's the bit that's their biggest.
They don't have an entry level car anymore.
And then that doesn't really make sense at all for them.
I mean, that's when they had the other cars.
Same thing with the McCon.
They had an entry level SUV.
It was a crossover SUV at that.
It was a smaller one.
Yes.
But it was the purpose of that as we talked about many, many times as it's a stepping stone.
It's a lead generator and they decided they wanted to make their, I mean, it doesn't make sense.
Like when you talk about it out loud, that you raise your prices, which is going to make your market smaller.
And then you're taking away things and then adding things and you're just making yourself into a smaller and smaller buying market.
Yeah.
So you're making less money than you would have in the first place.
Used to be a championship team.
You let all your free agents go.
That's basically what happened here.
Instead of paying, you know, instead of sticking with your guns and where you were at, you started to switch all this stuff up.
Hey, you know what?
We're going to go get a newer, more dynamic receiver.
He's called an EV McCon.
Guess what?
Everybody's going to love him.
He's going to be super fast and everybody's going to teams like boo in the ownership.
Get this guy out of here.
Fire that guy.
And unfortunately, Bloom lost his job over this stuff, you know, like all of these decisions that were made.
We joked around.
The funny thing about it is while I wrote this podcast.
I thought about this because about it was almost about two years ago to date.
We joked around about them breaking all these.
This is, I think, you know, the making all these crazy models that they promised they were going to make, right?
Like, oh, we're going to make a sport classic.
They did all this stuff.
And during that timeframe, we were joking and that was before the announcement of they were killing off all the cars.
That's this is pre all of that.
And we're like, they can do whatever they want because people are buying it.
They can print this.
They can do no wrong.
And they must have been reading their own press clippings because they thought the same thing.
And now look at them like now they're they're scrambling.
And you would think at the highest highest level where they were at where other manufacturers were trying to emulate them because they were so successful and they were doing so well and they were doing so many collaborations because they could because they were just like everybody wants to collaborate with us like we're just printing money here everybody loves us.
We can do no wrong.
We, you know, we're winning championships on the racetrack.
We're selling cars all over the world and we're doing this and, you know, meanwhile, now fast forward to where we're at now.
And it's like, oh, we're down.
We no longer have a mid engine car entry level car that we're selling anyone.
We no longer have an entry level SUV that we're selling anyone.
And it's kind of like.
Like, yeah, I mean, they are supposedly like the one of the most well known luxury brands that I think they're trying to figure out their identity.
Because they've not always as much as you aspirational brand.
Yes, luxury brand.
I'm not, I don't know if I'd ever put them in that category.
Yes, that's I mean, it's a fancy car, but I wouldn't say that I wouldn't have associated those two words together.
Yeah, I would say like, enthusiast brand.
And I say, if anything, if you're like into cars or enthusiasm, motor sports, I think they're trying to make that that iconic transition.
And the luxury thing.
Yeah, I think that I think you're not off on that.
But I think.
Regardless of they're trying to make that transition, that's not where the roots are at.
And it's still not there because they've always been in motor sports.
They're present day still in motor sports.
So like everything they've learned about the cars that they put in.
We just approved the kimchi shirts.
So if anybody has a question on what's happening in their tangent.
But yeah, I just think that, wow, you know, I know they were up there, but when you start looking at them like this.
You know, they I think they've just kind of got to the point where they've missed they're at sea and they can't find the shoreline.
Well, I mean, somebody's riding the ship.
We'll see how it turns out that that's a thing.
I mean, it's 2026.
It's New Year.
Well, that's what I mean.
That's why it is in place.
We'll see how much of a change is due.
I mean, I know that's.
Well, he's known for hybrid.
So I think we're going to get a slew of hybrid stuff, which that was already in motion before he came in there.
So to be to fair to bloom, that was already on the page.
But he was already starting to try to turn things to a to a way because.
But the boss has to get fired when you have losing seasons.
That's how it works.
Like it just doesn't work like stops with you.
Yeah.
We're going to work and they're like, dude, we're we're not we're not in the playoffs.
We're losing because of you.
You got to go.
So that's what kind of.
Well, I mean, we and we always speculated on how much they actually spent on the EV building is probably billions.
And then and then also product and then now.
As that product ages out.
What do you do with it?
Yeah.
I mean, they're not the only end and to be in.
Obviously we.
No one turned around until Toyota did.
I think once Toyota gave that.
Yeah.
Hey, guess what?
You learned how our production works and you like that Tony Porsche.
Oh, you learned that we're not going to be doing EVs is strongly.
And we're going to be making a hybrid approach, which makes sense.
I just think they listen to their people too late.
Porsche is usually pretty good about listening to the customer base.
And I'm talking about all the way back from like the 70s and 80s when people wanted stuff.
We saw that with Maino transmission GT3 stuff.
I just think they kind of got away from that where if they were to listen to their people, I think.
I would say the Tycon was.
I wouldn't say poorly received.
I was just say received.
I wouldn't say well received.
Because it's something out of the out of the ordinary for everybody.
So I think what they did is they took that data and like you can you can interpret that meaning like if you own that car.
Meaning that's your that's your baby and you sold it.
Yes, you sold them and you know, oh, we're only going to make 20,000 because we want to see how always sold them all.
Okay.
And then you sold the next year and they did well.
So like you're in your mind.
You think you're doing well.
Like you think you're like, oh, hey, people want this.
They're doing well because it's the new thing or is it because people like it?
Instead of yeah, instead of like legitimate and they're just going off sales number.
Like how many how many conversations got back to people that were actually the decision makers where it says like, oh, everybody who comes in here thinks they're cool, but they don't want one.
Like they probably that probably fell on deaf ears if that ever got back to a place where decisions were made, right?
They're like, no, that's the future.
Shut those people don't know shit.
Like that's probably what they want.
That was probably the answer, right?
Because that's how well they were doing and that's how arrogant.
Like that's how you fall when you're arrogant.
You don't listen to the feedback.
So they're probably just like, no, they don't have any idea what the hell they want.
You know, it's like, oh, same thing.
Like GT three, like screw those guys are getting PDK only.
They don't know what they want.
And they're like, everybody's like, if you do, we want freaking manuals and they're like, all right, I guess we're making manuals.
So I don't know.
I think there, I think there were signs.
I just think they chose not to listen to them, you know, when they doubled down, I think they could have moved at a slower pace.
I think they thought that, oh, if we're first to market with this, we're going to do well.
And that theory does work generally.
But when you bet the house on something like that, that is a bad bet.
Like you could have, they could have pulled research data from other places that were already falling.
They didn't have to go so hard in the electric market.
They could have literally done what they've always done with the specialty product released.
Yeah.
So lit.
And then now that's now it's a flag.
It's a weird thing that they didn't approach in that way where they make it a flagship type thing like the two RS or anything else like that.
I'm bringing out.
They usually do.
They usually have a smaller arm when it's a very new product.
The only thing looming for that would have been the emissions on the Euro side.
Yeah.
And then having to meet some type of thing and they think whatever Taycan was pushing it probably to meet it quicker.
They still could have lived in the hybrid world as long as possible before they went that.
I don't, Porsche has always kind of been a little reactionary with that kind of stuff like market trends where like there's a big change.
They're usually not trying to be first.
If you look, I mean, we can roll this back and look at their hypercar situation.
Like they're usually the last one to make the hypercar.
If the other brands are making hypercars because they want to see how they're like received.
Right.
They want to see like, oh, does the does the public even really want this?
And even when they do make it like we can take the most recent one they made.
Nineteen.
Spider.
And I was going to say the most recent which is like those cars, but those cars, they had to beg people to buy those cars.
They had to they had to create a program for people to buy those cars.
So like history, if they're not following their own history, because even when they show up after other people have made their cars, they're still not well.
And those were limited runs and that optional turbo s.
So they should have been able to predict this EV shit was not going to go well for them.
They should have been able to see that shit coming because of all of this other stuff.
I mean, historically, I mean, even when the GT three first came out, like Porsches notorious for having cars that don't move.
Like the 996, they had to beg people to buy those cars.
They're like, what's a GT three?
That's a new thing.
Do you mean?
Yeah, I guess it's through through history of that.
Think about that.
Like they can pull all that stuff, even air cooled stuff.
They can pull that stuff where the car sat around.
They're like, oh my God, we're losing our asses on these cars.
So I mean, it's not always they have their own internal data.
They're just not listening to the shit that is the trends were there.
Like I get what you're saying.
There are external factors where they were cut.
Their hand was being forced a little bit, but they should have bucked back a little bit to say, OK, cool.
We'll still be able to meet within standards.
What we'll do is we're going to run a hybrid.
We're already we're already doing hybrids.
We already know how to do this.
We're already doing this.
Yeah, we have, you know, they already had a ton of data on that.
What the 9 11 are hybrid so they could they could have ran something similar to that in a road car.
They were already do they already have Cayenne hybrids.
They had Panamera hybrids.
They already had that.
So what they could have did was just up production on those and just kind of stood there.
But it's easy to armchair this now.
But I mean, when you make a billion trillion dollar decision to build a factory, I think you got to evaluate a little bit.
You got it.
Well, what a billion dollars I've done to the technology side of your hybrid.
Yeah, no kidding.
Like, well, they would have to move it.
You'd have to be able to buy some company at that point.
Yeah.
And you wouldn't have shit-canned like your best selling car still.
And I think that's the bigger the bigger issue right now is that their entry level cars.
There isn't any one year.
And then like even back to the struggle days, like the reason they made the Cayenne the first place was.
Yeah.
Hey, we're going to test this out.
We need something else.
Yeah.
Get us out of hot water.
Boxter.
Get us out of hot water, right?
Both of those cars.
Get us out of hot water.
And that, you know, the Cayenne was.
So we're going to see a new something come out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We don't know what's going to be yet.
But something new is going to come out.
The 928 is coming back, guys.
It's going to be hybrid.
That could be the same hybrid from the Cayenne.
It's going to look just like the AMG GT.
It's going to be long bonnet.
I mean, they have bought, they should bring that car back.
Actually.
I mean, the world, it probably will receive.
But then you know what they'll do is they'll price it up.
It'll be, it'll, it'll be a car.
It won't be an entry level car because it'll be in that class of like high level.
Like it'll probably start at 200.
Well, even if that's the case, we had like, why wouldn't they solve their problems on the higher end?
Like we just said, with a, with a smaller subset, like make special releases,
make your money off those things.
Yeah.
And then bring in your entry level $99,911 and make your money there.
Yeah.
They're, they're hurting bad.
They're the opposite.
And they know.
I've read articles that even, they've even said it.
They finally are just speaking out on it.
It's like, yeah, we're hurting because we're, we have realized that.
So they're working and scrambling as hard as they can to try to get like an entry level either came in boxed or out like,
and that McCann trying to get back.
They're trying to get something.
Obviously they're not going to call it that.
They've been open about that, but it's going to be that whatever they decide to call it.
And it'll probably do well because it'll probably be priced right and people will be excited because it's new.
Have you heard there like murmurs of a dot three something?
I don't know what the one version of it.
It's like a dot three of something.
Uh-oh.
Okay.
That's curious.
I don't know what they're going to be ready for the, for the boxers and the game.
And I think they were going to continue on with the continuation series.
I mean, they would sell.
I mean, think about it.
A lot of people, those were cars that, that people were, that was an alternative car.
And then there was also, we talked about it before.
There was a regime of those cars where, you know, the, those people were very loyal.
They would buy those cars and be like, this is a better car than the 911.
It's mid-engine.
It's this.
It's that.
And that's great.
And it was that inner sibling rivalry that we talked about and like that dissipated.
We need that.
And it's gone because maybe that base number would make more sense if you had a car,
even though it's not the same car, but if you had a stepping stone car that you could buy 80 or 75 or 80,
meaning the Cayman, like an S or whatever it was and get it in a manual and drive that for a while.
And you're like, okay, cool.
I'll trade this in.
You give me a good trade in number.
I will buy a base 911 now, but I'm not just going to come off the street with nothing and buy a base 911 at 140.
And you can't even get a base model in a manual because it's not offered.
So you're already getting a career as well.
Yeah.
If you want, if you want anything other than a GT car, it has to be the career T.
If you want a manual that they, which is another mistake.
I feel because, but I mean, I'm sure there's data bind and showing there's not that many manual.
I mean, I know we're the enthusiast.
So that's going to be our, yeah, our percentage.
But a lot of people, even automotive journalists used to give Porsche, give Porsche praise for that.
Like hanging on to that as opposed to other brands who didn't.
I mean, if you look at other brands are actually going backwards now into that.
Aston has openly said that they're going to make more manual cars, newer manual cars moving forward.
So they're seeing the trends of it because they sell such a few number of cars.
They're realizing that they're eliminating a lot of demographic of people that would probably buy some of their cars if they were manual.
So I mean, if you can go get a manual Vantage V12 new warranty.
Yeah.
That sounds exciting for people, right?
So it's just one of those things where I think I get it from a production standpoint that it can't, it can't be that much more difficult.
Like they act like they're losing their asses on these things.
It's, it's, there's no way there's no, it's just more, it's less convenient for them.
I totally agree with that.
It's probably inconvenient for them.
Like who wouldn't want to speed production up to be like, oh, every car comes down this line gets the exact same transmission and it goes in the same place.
So we have one bot that does that to all of these things.
It comes of course, of course.
But guess what?
That's not what people want.
Just like they don't want to pay 140 grand for a base model car.
That's an automatic that has basically, excuse my French, like a dick for a big, you know, shaver thing for, for a shifter.
Like nobody wants that.
It's, I can't remember the last time I saw a base 992 somewhere and we go to a ton of places.
That's true.
Either seeing, if we're not seeing non GT 992s, you know, I'm recognizing we see a lot of, they're either T's.
A lot of T's.
Or at least S's.
I don't see that many GT S's.
See a lot of S's with like arrow kits and crap like that on them and whatever.
It's like that, that that's a shit car.
I'm just saying like, they're still not manuals.
But the shifter is your mind is something I don't think, I don't know that we talked about it.
If we did, I forgot.
You see there, they're adding that into the EVs.
Yes, I did see that.
I don't know why.
It's just, I just think they're just grasping at straws.
They try to get people to buy these things and trying to get them to, you know,
Now, if they had a manual, they had a true like lever action manual that would also work.
Do you think that would be, you know, because you can still, because with sim racing is not about it.
Because with sim racing, you can simulate a clutch.
Like it's all electronic now.
So this would definitely work.
You could simulate a clutch and have engagement with a manual.
I mean, that could be.
Why can't they just put more gears in it?
Let you actually row through gears instead of making a two speed, you know, what it is like how.
Well, I mean, maybe maybe they could do that.
They could do softwares where it's like six gears, but you could actually feel it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Put a gear linkage in it.
I mean, yeah, that's interesting.
And honestly, I bet you there's probably engineers that are doing that behind the scenes right now.
To try to get people like us into these cars where we're like never going to happen.
The thing about it is, as daddy Doug likes to say, it's a tip.
He calls them all tiptronics, whether it's not and people want to say, oh, it's PDK, it's still an automatic.
Now, if you're dailying it, I totally get it.
Because at least for where we live at in the last five years, traffic has no and I'm not exaggerating has literally doubled.
If you live in one of those like high congested cities and you commute to work or and you're in that crap all the time.
I get it.
Get you a tiptronic.
I'm all for those.
Like that's all the 992 is their tips outside of the tip out of the T.
I get that.
But if it's your fun car and I like his standpoint on it, not because I'm biased because I work there.
But I thought about this even before I worked there and you and I always have the same thing.
If you're fun car and if you have the means to have more than one car, I get sometimes want you.
That's all you got.
And that's OK.
And and I'm not saying it.
Oh, that's OK.
Like, oh, hey, bless your bless your heart type of thing.
You know, like, oh, bless his heart like that kind of crap.
But in the sense like that's a that's a pass in a category that that's fine.
Like we're not even going to that that one gets dismissed.
We're not talking about that.
But most people, especially if you're an enthusiast, you can find a way to have a daily, even if it's not an expensive daily.
If you go chase down a high mile land cruiser and spend 15 grand and that's your daily.
Your phone car should be a manual.
I'm just saying that's how it should be.
Like in my person, like, am I right?
No, it doesn't matter.
No.
But I think there's a lot of people that probably that that are in that camp of me saying that saying like, OK, well.
If I'm going to go out and just have fun and go row some gears and it doesn't even have to be like, I'm going to go and rip a mountain or I'm going to the track.
Like if you just want to go rip some gears on a weekend, you know, hey, I'm going to run to the store and go get coffee with some friends.
Or I'm, you know, going to grab some lunch with some buddies and you're going to go get your fun car.
Yeah, let me get in there with that tip.
Tronic and plop some pedals, man.
That makes me feel alive and we've driven a ton.
So all the people I'm not trying to offend you guys that have just those cars like, you know, engaging a PDK car is it is.
But it's still not a manual.
It's still not engaging as a manual.
And you know, and those guys are always the guys that are saying like, well, your car can't shift as fast as this.
Your car can't do lap times like this.
And it's like, what the hell is the last time you've been on the track trying to rip down lap times in your PDK car?
You know, if you're out there chasing lap times as a weekend warrior, all power to you.
No, no, you know, no skin off my back.
You have fun with that.
If that's your justification, fine.
Go buy a cup car, a used cup car.
I get it. That's a PDK car.
I'm talking about weekend fun.
It's not supposed to be about speed.
It's supposed to be driver engagement.
It's supposed to be make you feel something, you know, not out here trying to bomb on the interstate at 150 miles an hour for no effin reason.
Yeah, just because you can can do that here and get arrested.
Yeah.
Going to jail.
Like, what is that?
Port land.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking.
To jail.
By the way, to jail.
Jail.
No questions.
Jail.
Jail.
You're like, well, what if you, what if you're going to jail?
But, um, I don't know.
I just think if I think that's the secret sauce, I think it's one of those things.
And now there's a group of people I get it, maybe for medical reasons or what have you, you can't drive a manual.
And I'm sorry that you can't.
That sucks.
And I understand that is also another pass.
You get a pass on that.
But if you're capable, think you should be driving a manual as your fun car.
Your daily, I get it.
Um, tip all day.
Um, now, if you're in that weird demographic, it owns a PDK only GT three.
That was the dot ones.
You know, man or flop it.
I don't know.
That would be epic.
And if you have made it as well, let us know how about us.
No, um, I get it.
It's, it's easy for me to say because I mean, that's my personal view.
Those are the kinds of cars that I chased down.
Um, I, I see the purpose.
I'm not blind to it.
I'm not going to be some idiot.
It's here and says that, oh yeah, I don't understand PDK.
I totally get it.
You know, tips are great.
You sit in traffic.
You don't have to mess with it.
Um, but at the same time, it's one of those things.
I just feel like if you, if it is your fun car, um, I don't know, is weird as that sounds
like even rowing through first and second, yeah, you're probably not going to get
much more than third.
Um, even if you're not going to red line every time, I don't know.
There's something about like you're, you're having to do something.
It's an engagement.
You have to do something.
It's just like a tactile thing, whether if you had like full other virtues, you
haven't got like a rubber dash, but you don't think you need that.
But the moment you touch, you're like, uh, like it's just another, another point of
engagement.
Yes.
There's a PDK engagement and you feel movement, but it's not, it's not the same.
I feel like it at all.
I don't know.
I guess from my mindset, like where I see things like maybe because it's the analytical
way, it's the way you grew up to driving, driving me into a car for the most part,
I'm sure.
And that's the same here.
But I almost look at it this way in my mind.
Like you're an operator when you're, when you're driving a manual, like you're operating
machinery.
Yes.
Exactly.
You're an operator.
Like when you're driving a tip, you're just, you're, you're along for the ride.
Like as everyone knows, when you put that car in gear, you don't even have to push,
push the gas.
It's going to, it's going to move without, unless you put it on the brake, like same
thing.
Like if you're at a stoplight, that's why you're on the brake.
Cause the car will move without your assistance, essentially.
Manual car doesn't do that unless it's not on a flat surface.
But I'm, you know what I'm saying?
You can sit there and so you got to operate.
So that's why I'm like, you're an operator.
Otherwise you're, you're just along for the ride basically.
You're, you're kind of steering and that's basically all you're doing.
You have some inputs here and there, but you're not doing a lot.
I don't know.
That's just how my brain looks at that kind of stuff.
Like T 100 Terminator and T 200 Terminator.
Yeah, exactly.
One's liquid molly.
One's like poly poly liquid molly all the way.
One's more advanced than the other.
Yeah.
But hey, old dude always wins.
Right?
That's true.
But you know, obviously we've, we've talked about that many, many, many times.
To close on that topic.
I just think that they should at least offer like Emmanuel in the base model.
I just, and that's not a new thing.
They should have been doing that from the night.
That's part of a heritage thing too.
Why, why wouldn't they do that from that point?
And you're, yeah, you're, it's future business.
I think like they've kind of lost the narrative for that.
You're always trying to build the future.
Are you not?
Are you like a younger person, even if you're not a younger person, if you're,
you're at a point in your life where you can afford a 9-11 and you want a base model,
like, isn't the goal, if you're selling a product to eventually get them to buy up eventually.
So put them in a car.
You know, I think that I've heard that a lot of people say that, not that we're new buyers,
but we know people that are new buyers are like, you know, I would like to own a base 9-11,
new one, but I want a manual.
Like I'd like to, I think it's a cool car.
I think it's great.
I think it has a great motor, but I don't want to drive an automatic.
And that may be a very small demographic, as you mentioned earlier.
And I'm sure their data supports whatever, or I shouldn't say supports.
You know what it does is it probably rationalizes their decision.
That's a better way to put that.
It's not supports.
It's rationalizes their decision that somebody within either the board
or whoever makes those high level decisions to say, nine, we're not doing that.
Accounting says.
Yeah.
The bean counters always ruining crap.
All right.
So next topic.
I know this is going to be a little strange, but because we're not big EV fans.
Yeah, all that trash about EV is here to talk about.
However, these EVs, I think here's a daily.
I think.
Yeah.
I think EVs are cool at a certain price point at the price point where they were
trying to sell these things at MSRP or, or a lot of them, not just Porsche.
They don't make sense that those cars are overpriced.
Like for what they provide, in my personal opinion, like those are commuter cars.
Yes.
Oh, it's fast and a straight line.
You can do this and then do that.
I think the party tricks.
Everybody is we've seen it.
We've done it.
Even if you don't know crap about cars, you know that they can do that.
Great.
What else can it do?
It can overheat.
It can bring your fucking house down.
It doesn't charge well.
Sometimes it'll be water.
Electric vehicle.
It'll strain you in the winter.
Like all of that other shit goes along with it too.
Right.
Okay.
So however, you know, at $135,000 MSRP on a 2021 Taycan 4S.
No, thank you.
Right.
But in the low forties with like 15,000 miles on it.
I don't think I saw it.
I think I saw the first price and I was like, okay, he's justified 140 grand again.
No.
And no, they've dropped that much.
Yeah.
So we're almost talking about like almost a hundred grand off.
Like that number.
Yeah.
So if you have the means and you need a daily and you and we talked about this traffic
that I mentioned just literally five minutes ago, a used Taycan 4S, you know,
makes sense at 44,000 at 42,000 with 15,000, 20,000 miles on it.
That makes sense.
Now is the battery been replaced?
Are you going to get, you know, stuck with holding basically a big paperweight?
And if that thing doesn't work anymore?
Yeah, possibly.
But if you do your research, I'm sure there's some that have that battery replaced.
If you do your research, I'm sure that most of them are okay.
I don't know.
But from a standpoint of for commuting, you and I have driven almost every model Taycan
minus the base model and they're phenomenal cars.
They're not phenomenal cars at 100 plus, you know, like they were selling the Taycan
turbos for $190,000.
No, that is not $190,000 experience.
It is not.
But that car now is selling, you know, 50 or $60,000.
That's definitely that's worth that price.
I mean, put this in perspective at $44,000.
You can't even buy a brand new Toyota RAV4 for that.
So you're buying a four year used Taycan 4S.
So I would rather do that to commute in than a RAV4.
That's true.
I mean, you can't buy a Camry for that.
No.
So, yes, I'm not an EV fan.
However, when they are this cheap, it becomes more, I guess, appealing is the best word to
use for that.
Again, I'm still not a buyer for one, but there are probably plenty of people that are
buyers and not realizing that.
I mean, they know that word travels.
Oh, yeah, they're down people, but they probably don't realize that they're that cheap.
And if you wait another year, there might be some in the 30s, dude.
I mean, that's kind of insane if you think about it.
See, Mike and I have our daily exchange.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, outside of having to get something to charge it with, I don't, you
know, it gets 200 and something.
Six base in the apartment to charge it in.
Yeah.
200 miles a range for like, and we talked about this time and time again, and it doesn't
matter who makes them, but they are great city cars.
Yes.
Do you need to go outside of the city and do something else and go on a long road trip?
That is not the car.
But at this price point to commute to work every day and back and forth and it's going
to charge either at work or at home.
So you're never going to have a range anxiety problem really.
You don't really ever need to fill up other than for the EV.
This makes a compelling case for a daily driver, local daily driver.
Yeah.
Exactly what it was made for.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But not at $140,000 like to buy a daily driver.
It's for the bleeding end.
Yeah.
To have a soulless experience, you know, and I would say of the EVs, it's probably the
least soulless of them, though, because they are quick, they can handle, and it's still
a nice cabin to be in.
It's still a nice place.
It has good tech.
We've been in them.
It's like manual tip EV.
Well, I don't think the tip thing and the EV, they go together, but I'm saying the manual
thing doesn't really compete with those because that's a non-daily car.
Like I wouldn't want it daily.
I mean, if I had to, but if I was sitting in traffic every day, I mean, it would be
very, very difficult for me to sit there and be like, especially if you work traditional
hours, you know, like sitting in rush hour traffic and clutching every day.
That would get old really fast.
I would say probably as weird as it sounds, I would probably be driving an unmodified,
not like a heavy clutch car.
I'd probably go chase like a 996 or a 997 turbo because those clutch hydraulic clutches
with like no BS and I'm like, those are probably most the most chill manual cars.
You could probably drive and get stuck in, you know, day to day traffic, but that's probably
about it.
Yeah.
So would you buy a four S in the low 40s?
Yeah, it's like, thank you for that information.
I am going to buy a daily now to do that, but again, you know, if what a great daily that
would be if that was just your daily oil changes.
No, like, you know, but outside the battery, do you know battery cost or have you seen
I'm sure they're astronomical.
But I know that I know Tesla's, I think that we talked about before Tesla's certain
gen the batteries are crazy expensive and there's other ones that were it's not so bad.
I'm sure anything from Porsche, it's not cheap.
So I can't imagine.
You know, like Amazon basics.
Yeah, what's the Chinese version of this?
Can we get one of those?
But yeah, can we get yeah.
Ying Ying dong freaking lithium batteries put in this thing like, but they've only
gone on fire 10 times.
It's only got a 2.7 out of five star review where some people have died with these batteries.
No, but I just thought it was interesting, interesting price comparison.
I don't have anything else for him.
Do you have anything else for him?
I don't.
I don't say the the type and they speculate batteries are going to should last between
500 to 750,000 miles.
That's a lot.
Because they're they're duration testing over 20 years.
So pretty much the Navy, the New Diesel.
Yeah, that's what we have.
Who knows?
But yeah, we'll talk to you guys soon.
I don't have anything else.
You guys take care.
See you.
See you.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Peacart Talk.
Connect with us on Instagram at PeacartTalk or online at PeacartTalk.com.
About this episode
P-Car Talk dives into the rising prices of Porsche models, particularly the 911, which has seen a staggering $40,000 increase in just five years. Hosts Mike and Aaron discuss the implications of these price hikes, suggesting that they may alienate potential buyers who are priced out of the market. They also touch on the upcoming events like DRT and Rolex, and share insights on the used EV market, particularly the Taycan, which is becoming more appealing at lower price points. The episode is filled with candid discussions about Porsche's strategy and the future of the brand.
Original notes
In this episode of P-car Talk, hosts Mike Geisert and Aaron Johnson kick off with what's happening in the Porsche world this month. DRT Miami is coming up—if you're looking to escape the cold and see some incredible cars, this is your move. The following weekend brings the Rolex 24 at Daytona, including the historic 30-minute race on Saturday before the main event. What a way to start the year.
The hosts dig into the elephant in the showroom: Porsche 911 pricing has climbed $40,000 in just five years. What's the strategy here? Base 911s now start around $140k, but buyers at that price point don't want a base model—so does this actually hurt overall sales? The only clear winner seems to be the used market, where older 911s suddenly look like bargains. Mike and Aaron discuss whether Porsche fatigue is real and what this means for enthusiasts versus casual high-end car buyers.
Finally, the conversation shifts to depreciation kings—specifically the 2021 Taycan 4S. These stickered between $103k and $135k new and can now be found in the low $40s. Is this a steal for a commuter car if the battery checks out? The hosts weigh in.
Thank you for your support!
Kimchi Crew: Leslie, Chris, Ken, Aaron, Matthew, Sean, and Nik
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