What Jeff Gordon Learned From Jimmie Johnson
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Concept
NASCAR
NASCAR is a big American racing league. Cars are based on models you can buy, and races are usually on oval tracks where strategy matters a lot.
Concept
Darlington
Darlington is a well-known NASCAR track. It’s tricky to set up your car for because the corners behave differently, so teams have to tune the car carefully.
Concept
Cup Series
The Cup Series is NASCAR’s main top-tier racing. Being a Cup Series champion is a big deal in stock-car racing.
Concept
Daytona
Daytona is a famous NASCAR track. Races there often involve cars running close together at high speed, so teamwork and strategy matter a lot.
Company
Hendrick Automotive Group
This is the dealership company tied to Rick Hendrick. It matters because his racing team’s success is connected to the money and support from his business.
Company
Rick Hendrick
Rick Hendrick is the person behind the Hendrick NASCAR team. The conversation is about how his early vision shaped the team’s growth and winning culture.
Concept
siloed teams
They’re saying the organization was split up into separate groups that didn’t really share information. In racing, that can make it harder to learn from what other teams are doing.
Concept
crew chiefs
A crew chief is the lead strategist for a NASCAR team, coordinating race strategy, car setup direction, and communication with the crew and drivers. Bringing crew chiefs and engineering together is meant to improve decision-making speed and consistency.
Concept
Jimmy Johnson
Jimmy Johnson is a legendary NASCAR driver and multi-time champion, widely known for his teamwork and ability to develop winning processes with his crew. The speaker frames him as both a top-tier driver and a mentor figure.
Concept
consistent and very fast
It means the car and driver are quick, but also quick in a repeatable way. You don’t just have one good lap—you can do it again and again.
Company
Hendrick equipment
This is about the race team’s cars and support. A top NASCAR team like Hendrick Motorsports gives the driver better tools and more help to perform.
Concept
24 year cup career
“Cup” is NASCAR’s main top-tier racing series. Saying “24 year cup career” means the driver has been competing at the highest level for a very long time.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is how much power the engine makes. More power can help you go faster out of the turn even if the car doesn’t handle perfectly.
Term
qualifying
Qualifying is the session where drivers set their starting positions based on lap times. In NASCAR, qualifying results can strongly affect track position and strategy for the race.
Part
powder coated
Powder coating is a special paint process for metal parts. It’s baked on and helps protect the parts from rust and wear.
Concept
open wheel
Open-wheel cars have the tires sticking out where you can see them. It’s common in many dirt and open-wheel racing types.
Concept
sprint car
A sprint car is a small, fast open-wheel race car that usually races on dirt tracks. Drivers have to be really precise because traction changes a lot.
Concept
dirt racing
Dirt racing happens on dirt tracks instead of pavement. Because the surface changes, it’s harder to drive consistently and you need different skills.
Concept
hot laps
Hot laps are short practice runs where drivers go as fast as they can to learn the track. If you miss them, you may not know how the car will handle when it’s time to race.
Concept
driver development program
A driver development program is how racing teams groom young drivers. Instead of just throwing someone in a car, they help them learn, get experience, and move up step by step.
Company
GM
GM is General Motors, a major automaker. In racing, they’ve been involved in programs that help develop drivers and place them into competitive opportunities.
Concept
talent scouting ("have you seen this kid?")
This is basically “spotting talent.” If someone hears about a really fast young driver, they ask the team to check them out and consider giving them a chance.
Part
clutch
A clutch is the pedal/assembly used to connect and disconnect the engine from the transmission in a manual car. Learning to coordinate clutch engagement with gear changes is critical for smooth starts, avoiding stalling, and maintaining momentum through corners.
Company
Hendrick Motorsports
Hendrick Motorsports is a big NASCAR racing team. If someone wants to work in racing, that’s the kind of organization they might aim to join. It’s known for being very successful and well-run.
Concept
F1
F1 is Formula 1, the highest level of open-wheel race car racing. The cars feel and handle very differently than stock cars, so it’s a big deal to drive one.
Term
locking up
Locking up is when the wheels stop spinning and start sliding. That usually makes braking less effective and can make the car harder to control.
Term
Hans
The HANS device is a safety collar that helps protect your head and neck in a crash. It keeps your head from snapping forward too far.
Brand
Harvick
“Harvick” is Kevin Harvick, a top NASCAR driver known for being very intense. The speaker is saying that when Harvick got out at Watkins Glen, he immediately went to talk to Juan Pablo.
Brand
Chevrolet
Chevrolet is a car brand that sponsors racing events. Here, they’re doing a fun promotion with Looney Tunes and putting the Chevrolet name on the event.
Term
grip level
Grip level is how well the tires can “hold” the ground. More grip means the vehicle sticks and turns more predictably; less grip means it slides more.
Term
change the tires
Changing tires is a routine pit stop action where teams swap tires to manage grip and performance over a race. In NASCAR, tire condition strongly affects speed, so timing and execution are critical.
Brand
Jeff Gordon
Jeff Gordon is a legendary NASCAR driver and team figure, known for multiple championships and a major impact on modern NASCAR media and fan engagement. Mentioning him signals the conversation is tied to top-tier NASCAR history and driver perspectives.
Brand
Carl Edwards
Carl Edwards is a well-known NASCAR driver, respected for his competitive driving style and strong performances in the Cup Series. The mention here is more about fan/driver relationships than technical car details, but it anchors the conversation in NASCAR personalities.
LIVE
Hey friends, you're listening to Stackin' Pennies.
Coral of the Joy here alongside Ryan Flores, big guest coming in.
We have an empty chair next to me that will soon be filled by none other than Hall of Famer, Jeff Gordon.
Really looking forward to that conversation.
We break down Darlington and all things HMS, all things NASCAR and Sprint car racing.
Let's go ahead and get right into it.
Let's start Stackin' Pennies.
Stackin' them deep, sellin' them cheap.
That tastes like gasoline, rubber and victory.
Where's that here, Stackin' Pennies?
All right, guys.
The moment in time has come.
Please welcome in to now and subscribe.
Four-time Cup Series champion, Hall of Famer, Jeff Gordon.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Honored to be on the show.
Man, welcome.
How's it been this, I don't know how it's taken this long.
I know.
Every time I see it, you're actually one of the ones that reaches out like,
hey man, listen to your, you know, hear you on Serious 6M, love what you guys are doing.
So I'm like, hey, let's go.
So I fired you off a text before Daytona and I appreciate you lining it up because you're a very busy man.
Things are busy.
Yeah, you said now you got a real job.
How many races a year do you go to?
It just varies.
You know, I've been, I mean, I would say I'm going to probably 75% of the races, if I had to guess.
My wife and kids, when they're out of school in summer comes, that usually starts to cut in.
My wife's like, yeah, we're going here.
I'm going here.
We're going here doing this.
And I'm like, yep, yep, yep.
It's crazy.
You talk about growth and I always think it's so cool.
Whenever I pull into the campus there and just see the original building,
again, everything's built around the original building that Rick bought.
How much, where was the original 24?
Like how much growth have you seen there?
Not just in the, like in the last five years, it looks like it's grown so much.
Absolutely.
I mean, first it was built by Hendrick Automotive Group and Rick Hendrick, right?
And so I think it took a little while for Hendrick Motorsports to emulate that.
Some of that was just probably needing a championship.
It took a few years to get the championship.
They were winning.
It was a winning culture, but I don't know if it was structured quite the way that it is.
Well, it definitely wasn't the way it is today.
But Rick was always, he always said from the very beginning,
we're only strong as our people.
We've got to share information.
We've got to all work together as one.
But you can say that and you can push for that, but we were so siloed for many, many years.
And you asked, where was the 24 shop?
24 shop, I remember when I first got there, right?
It was a two car team, Ricky Rudd and Ken Schrader,
and they were in two totally different buildings.
And then there was a building in the back that,
let's just put the 24 back there, very small shop.
And then we grew and went to another shop.
And we're still in three different facilities.
It wasn't until the 48 team came where we said, okay,
we're looking at what some other teams were doing at that time.
And Rick agreed, let's bring on a fourth team and let's put the 24 and the 48 in one building.
And then of course we saw what that success was like.
And then we built another building to put the five and 25 in.
But it was still a separate building.
So now all four cars, all four teams, crew chiefs, engineering group, everybody,
they're all in one place.
I think looking from the outside in, I mean, in my opinion,
Jimmy Johnson hung the moon, right, in terms of race car driver.
For me, he was a massive mentor for me, always helped me try to get the next deal,
had me get perspective on the sport.
But being like an intimate teammate, when that guy comes in and you see him
doing with what race cars, the same ones you have,
what way did Jimmy Johnson push you to be better?
I mean, first of all, Jimmy and I became friends, you know, and he's just,
as we all know, he's just a good dude and a fun guy to be around.
And so he and I really just clicked immediately.
And I just wanted to show him and tell him at least everything that I knew,
because you just want a guy like that to have success.
Didn't hurt that I was also a part owner in the deal.
And I kind of put my own skin in it and, you know,
took some things on my shoulder in the conversations I had with Rick.
And he included me in that.
So I wanted to see them have success as well.
But then when you saw Chad and Jimmy and that whole team just elevate the whole
organization, the whole sport.
And Jimmy just, you know, and Chad, they just outwork people.
You know, they, like Jimmy came into a pretty humble,
you know, hadn't had a ton of success, but he was very consistent and very fast.
And when you put him in Hendrick equipment, then all the ingredients were there to have success.
And so the way it changed me was I, you know, I think earlier in my career,
I was like Jimmy, I was just a sponge and just all in whatever it took.
And then you have some success and you're like, yeah, I got this.
I'm good.
Right.
And I think I had to reevaluate and go, no, no.
You know, I've got to look at data more.
I've got to work out more, you know, I've got to, you know, bond with the team more.
You, and it, it, it made me a better race car driver, which I'm thankful for.
I, I'm a little bit bummed.
I never got a championship under the chase format.
But, you know, knowing that, that we won a lot of races and competed for a championship
my final year kind of made up for that.
But, but otherwise, yeah, I think Jimmy did that for, for all of us at Hendrick, but everybody
in the sport.
How much we talk about often, and I don't know if you know exactly the story where
stacking pennies comes from, but it's not monetary, right?
It's what details can I do in my life to get me ultimately closer to the goal that I'm trying
to chase and, and a couple of teams I started out racing with your external motivation wasn't
there, right?
So how can I figure out internally what's a win and keep myself locked in and motivated?
And you say that about Jimmy, where your mindset was, I'm, I'm good, right?
And then you get like punched in the face a couple of weeks.
You're like, damn, I need to buckle down a little bit.
How often, how many times through your 24 year cup career did you have to like recalibrate
your mentality and just change how you go about the process?
Yeah.
I mean, definitely, you know, there's ebbs and flows to it, right?
I mean, sometimes it's just automatic things are just clicking and you, I mean, you go win
three, four races in a row and you're like, the heck is going on right here.
And, and you, and you're like, yeah, of course we're showing up here to win.
And then boom, right?
You get, you get hit upside the head.
I would say my, I mean, later in my career, I feel like it was every year, you know, but,
but I feel like the first 10 years it was really only my rookie year because that was a huge wake
up call for me getting used to longer races, heavier cars, the fuel loads, you know, the
burn off of the fuel load being all the way in the back there and the tires and everything arrow.
I mean, I was just like, I felt like I had so much to learn.
Year two started clicking year three, four, five, six.
I mean, it was just all of a sudden bam, bam, bam, bam.
And then 99 came around and, and in 99 we were still, I still think we won seven races,
but that was a year Ray got, you know, the opportunity to go to dodge.
And we weren't competing for the championship.
And, you know, you just could sense a shift.
Some competitors had, had picked up their game.
And so, so 2000 was probably the toughest year that, that, that I've had that I can think of.
And that was Ray's leaving new crew chief, Robbie Loomis, and we sucked.
I mean, I think we maybe won one race that year, but we were terrible.
And that was a reevaluation of everything, you know, where we had a Hendrick,
where we have the 24 car, where I had as a driver.
My, my goal was always don't be the weak link.
Right.
And, and I felt like, you know, there were a lot of weak links at that time,
and I was one of them.
And, and so that, that was one, that was one year where I looked at myself in the mirror
and said, what can I do to be better and contribute more to the team?
What do you think a couple of those things were that you did that turned it back around?
Just spending time with people.
It's all about the people, you know, it just, it is, I mean, yeah, you've got to,
you've got to make those very tough decisions of sometimes, and Rick is such a master of this.
He can, he can walk in a room.
If there's a meeting going on, he can listen to people and he can pull you aside.
That one's not going to get done, right?
Or he's like, man, you guys are not on, you're not on the same page.
You know, you guys got to work on, on, on, you know, how you are connected, things like that.
But he's really, really good at that.
So it took me a little bit longer, maybe sometimes to recognize that.
And I actually, I remember when Robbie Loomis came in, I was like, listen,
Ray Abraham was a very strong leader, right?
Guys loved him and they hated him.
Yeah.
I said, you need to build that, right?
Like you need to have respect.
And Robbie wasn't that kind of guy.
Like Robbie's kind of guy is like, no, no, I'm going to come in and I want to see
how people work and what's going on here.
And, and you know, eventually we'll get there.
And I told him, I was like, if I were you week one, I'd fire three people.
You know, like get there.
Set the tone.
Set the tone.
And he didn't do that.
And, and it all worked out.
I mean, but it took us a little while to get there, but it all worked out.
And we got, you know, we got the championship 01, which was super rewarding to me personally,
to the whole team, to everybody, to Robbie.
But yeah, no, I think it was just, you know, connecting with the people,
making sure that they knew you were just as invested as they were,
and that you're willing to do whatever it takes.
And you expected the same out of them.
And of course, some good oil engineering never hurts either.
And boom.
So you talk about different phases of your career and then how the cars changed.
But if you took Prime, Jeff Gordon today,
took Prime, Jeff Gordon and dropped him in a car today,
what do you think would be the hardest adjustment?
Prime, Jeff Gordon.
What is Prime, Jeff Gordon 2001?
Well, I mean, 98 obviously was just a ridiculous year where, I mean,
I was walking on a different cloud than everybody else.
You just came into the track and like,
I can't be beaten.
Yeah.
I mean, I didn't feel, I didn't feel like we had a weakness of any kind,
unless there was a failure, right?
That was it.
And, and so I think that would, I would say that's part,
I feel like I was a better race car driver,
more patient race car driver later in my life in many ways,
but I was never more confident than I was in that year.
So I'm not really sure which one would be.
Take the confident 98, Jeff Gordon.
So yeah, I'd like to think that I would do well, right?
I think whatever environment you put me in,
if you put me in it on a consistent basis,
like I was never, I was never the Mark Martin.
I would even put Jimmy in this category or Toni Stewart or Kyle Larson.
Just go jump in and everything and boom, go fast.
I was never like that.
I was calculated.
I was put me in here, let me figure it out,
give me some time and I can be as good as anybody.
But I couldn't just do it like lap one.
Mark Martin's still one of my heroes.
I mean, practice.
Every time they drop the green track would be green, slick, whatever it was.
Half a second faster than everybody.
Just half a second faster than everybody, you know?
And you're like, how does he do it?
Anyway, so yeah, I'd like to think that I would excel or do well at it.
Because I do think that this car,
I don't think you can run this car off the right rear.
Like Jimmy was so good at running his car off the right rear.
And when you could do that, I think you couldn't beat him.
And that's Larson, maybe Tony.
I ran more off the right front.
So, you know, I explained to somebody who doesn't know anything about that.
Yeah, I wanted the car to turn positively, but I needed rear security.
You know, like I did not want the car just yawed out running loose.
I mean, earlier in my career, I did that and wrecked and tore up a lot of stuff.
So I was like, I need to tighten this car up.
I funny story, sorry not to cut you off, Jeff.
They were talking after practice and my truck was loose on Friday.
And, you know, Yance, my crew chief was talking about it.
And I was like, man, I don't know how Kyle Larson or these guys do it.
But I can tell you one thing.
I'm 34 with four kids now.
And when my right hand goes like this, my right foot comes like this.
I just can't tell it to do anything else.
Well, I just always felt like if I could lean on that right front a little bit more,
I could play with the brakes and modulate it.
I could drive a different line.
I could do some different things that, you know, I felt like I couldn't do.
If I'm going in the corner just on the right corner,
I just felt like I was held back and it wasn't me at my best.
And most of my career, we had a lot of horsepower to make up for it.
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Did you ever tell him the story on how he unintentionally caused you to wreck it?
Oh my God, no, no, I thought about that a couple days ago.
But I forgot to write it down.
Glad you brought that up.
My first ever cup race, I had driven like three bush races,
four bush races at the time.
I had no business being in a cup core.
But Randy Humphrey's 77-car day, Blaney drove it a couple of times, missed a couple of races.
And I had been, I had won the Arca race there.
Was that Jasper?
It was a set, no, it was, I don't even know, they weren't very good.
But anyways, they had not made a race.
And there was four or five, this is like 2014, 2015 maybe.
And God, I remember like it was yesterday.
And I'm petrified, right?
Like, I don't know what the hell I'm doing.
And I come out and this is relatively like four inch blade big power back then, right?
So this is you in the drive to end hunger car.
So 14, 15, maybe?
Yeah.
16, somewhere in there.
Anywhere from like 12 to 15.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm watching heroes roll out.
Tony Stu or Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr.
And I'm like, Jesus Christ.
How do they talk him in to let me in this thing?
Yeah, yeah, you're one, right?
So seemed like a good idea.
It seemed like a good idea.
Time, now I'm shitting a brick.
So I brought the pits, right?
And this is typical old weekend where it was essentially the first practice was qualifying
trim, right?
Full tape, big bar, all you got.
Bring back some great memories.
Cool temperatures right in the morning.
So they wanted to meet for me just to go out and make some laps.
And I already had a bunch of laps allowed.
And so I was relatively confident.
So I come out of the pits, you know, all right, you got one coming outside clearing behind them.
So I come looking in my mirror and all I remember is this big yellow.
It was playoff race, big yellow banner across the front windshield Gordon coming.
So I'm like, that's pretty good.
Got to follow.
Come out, grab third, grab fourth.
And I like, I'm like two back going to three.
And I'm like, I've always lifted about the three here before those choppy bumps.
I lifted, you were still going.
You ripped it off the corner and you weren't even in the same straightaway coming off turn four.
Like you were already through one and two by the time I come off four.
I'm like, Oh God, these boys are built different.
So I make a couple laps, right?
And I'm getting my bearings and I'm like, okay, I'm settled in.
So I come in, I put it on stand, check everything.
I'm like, okay.
Well, Jeff Gordon drove it to the one and a half.
I'm like, I can do that.
Jeff Gordon can do it.
I can do that.
So I come out the next time.
How's it feel?
I'm like, it feels good.
Let me take care of it.
I also didn't really understand the disparity at that time right up.
35th place car was a 35th place car.
Jeff Gordon's car was Jeff Gordon's car.
And I just thought just the little Randy LaJoy in the back of my head,
like just if you're slow, just drive harder type thing.
So I'm like, all right.
So I taped this thing up.
Let's go for a run and go into three.
All right.
I got to drive to the one and a half.
Oh, oh, oh, boom.
Just like that.
Knock my glass over, knock the right side door off.
And you taught me a valuable lesson.
Not only can my car not do what Jeff Gordon's car can do,
Corey LaJoy can't do what Jeff Gordon can do.
So I appreciate you giving me that lesson.
Now, you should be honored with that.
Now, was there like a moment for you in that where you had
like a welcome to the cup series moment?
Somebody did that and you were like, oh my goodness, these boys are,
these boys are bill different.
92, 93.
I mean, I mean, I felt like 93.
No, where it really, before that, I mean, the first time I ever drove a stock car at
Charlotte Motor Speedway, because I, you know, I did a little buckmaker driving school
and all of a sudden I got a ride.
I don't belong out there at all.
And the first one is Charlotte and we went and tested there.
And I kept driving into three and, you know, you had the little choppy bumps into three
and the back ends dancing.
And so I was like, I can't drive in the deeper end of the corner.
And we were half a second or more, maybe off.
This is Bill Davis' car?
No, no, this is Hugh Connerty.
This is the outback steakhouse, you know, all the way back, 67.
But Ray Evernham was the crew chief at the time.
So, you know, that's a long story.
Hugh Connerty was Leo Jackson's son-in-law.
And that's how that whole thing, he was going to drive it and then put me in it.
And then Andy Petrie said, hire Ray Evernham, right?
That's kind of how the whole thing started.
Anyway, so we're at Charlotte Motor Speedway and Chuck Bowne was there as,
I don't know if he was past champion, leading the points, maybe?
Probably leading the points.
He was in a Pontiac.
We were in a Pontiac.
And so I just kept saying, Ray kept saying, what do you need?
What do you need?
I'm like, I don't know.
I don't know, but I can't go any faster.
And so they asked Chuck Bowne to come over.
Chuck got in the car, dove that thing down in there.
It stuck.
Boom.
And I watched.
I was on top of the truck.
And I was like, how did he do that?
And then I was like, well, to your point, if he did it, I got to do it now.
I didn't want to do it, but I had to do it.
And to him, if I didn't drive that thing down in, then it stuck.
So that's the first time I kind of remember that happening.
So I reached out to Bickford.
I've been doing some work with him in Boston Reed.
And I'm-
Does everybody know who Bickford is?
John Bickford, your stepdad.
Yeah, my stepdad.
So he's restoring a spring car, your spring car.
Two of them, yeah.
So I powder coated some stuff for him and helped him out with that.
But I said, hey, I got Jeff on and I'm a huge spring car guy.
And I've never really heard you talk much about spring cars.
Most of the stuff is like this about cup racing.
But he said, you got to ask, to that point, you got to ask about,
you got to ask him about racing Kinzer when he was 14 years old at Tampa Fairgrounds.
And I wonder, I think this is a great time to work that in because
those moments had to help you so much when you got into the cup series racing
against Earnhardt and all that racing against guys like Kinzer and Wolfgang.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I mean, everybody knew of me as this really young spring car driver.
And that I was probably more known for being one of the youngest guys
than I was for maybe some of the things I accomplished.
But I also, right as I started accomplishing some things,
all of a sudden I jumped into this midget at Indianapolis Raceway Park
and won the night before the 500.
And it was like dirt racing, who?
You know, I was like, I want to go pavement racing.
And then all of a sudden NASCAR came right around the corner.
So it was kind of a crazy couple of years there.
But yeah, I grew up in avid, avid spring.
My walls in my bedroom were open wheel.
I cut out every page I possibly could of every wheel stand from Kokomo
to Devils Bowl, burning the right rear tire off the thing.
Steve Kinzer was my hero.
It was Rick Mears and Steve Kinzer.
And Steve Kinzer came first.
And so I never saw myself driving a sprint car.
Certainly not at 13 years old.
But once I got in it, I'm like, this is what I want to do.
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
And little did I know that like a year and a half after I started,
I would be at the fairgrounds in Tampa, I think it was.
It was basically all start.
Outlaws hadn't started yet.
So it was all stars.
And they would let me race in the all stars before I was 16.
Outlaws I couldn't race until I was 16.
But the Kinzers and Wolfgangs and those guys came and ran some of those races.
And so I remember I qualified really, really good.
I think I won my heat.
And I think I started maybe on the front row.
And I think Steve passed me like five laps in or something like that.
And I kind of hung with them and finished second.
You know, and it was like, holy crap.
What just happened?
I mean, it was just a huge, huge moment for me because it was the first time that I was
like really racing the best of the best on dirt, something I love to do against my hero.
And it was, I was just like so blown.
My mind was just blown.
I couldn't believe that.
That just happened.
But it's also a huge confidence booster.
Yeah.
So you've kind of got some.
Oh, look at this.
Is this it?
I'm not sure where it's at.
No, I think this is Australia.
Yeah, we traveled over to Perth, Australia.
I think I was 14, 14.
Okay.
Yeah.
So 14, 15.
And you know, when you go over to Australia, it's a little bit different today.
I mean, all of our guys go over there and whip up on everybody.
But at this particular track, you didn't beat their hometown legends.
Like there was one guy that was just like the man and we would beat him.
And it was, you know, it was a big deal.
But the best part about this is not the video, it's the audio because they called races
like they call a soccer match.
Exactly.
It does sound like a cricket match.
Yeah, exactly.
Do you live a little bit vicariously through like Larson and Corey Day now and you see them go
run sprint cars?
Yeah.
I mean, I could never do what those guys do.
Honestly, like I was good in a sprint car, but I didn't feel like I was great in the sprint car.
That's what I'm saying.
Like I moved, I got into the pavement midget and it was just boom instant.
It brought back days of quarter midgets.
And I just felt like, no, no, this is this is magic right here.
Like I love the dirt racing.
It taught me a ton and and I had a blast and I was good.
I won some races.
I finished second to Kinzer.
That race, I think I finished second to him again at Bloomington in an outlaw race.
But but I was, I didn't feel like I had what it took to be on the world of outlaw tour
and competing high high level like those guys do.
So one is it allows me to watch more dirt racing because I just love it.
And and it gets it allows me to go, damn, wish I wish I could have been that good,
you know, especially at like Knoxville and some of those places.
And those guys are those guys are impressive.
Just bouncing back and forth like Larson, just the Vegas back and forth.
It's very raised, go miss a couple laps of hot laps, go in there and right foot off and be
top of the board.
Unbelievable.
Yeah, it's it's a it's a skill.
But I think it's also he does it often enough, you know, where it seems very natural to him.
And and maybe that's the way to do it is you got to do it all the time.
I think if you if you step away from it, maybe it's not as easy, but he makes it look easy.
And it's fun, fun to have him as a part of our organization doing that.
So you've mentored, I mean, even going back to like Blake Feast and Boston Reed
and now Kyle and now you got Corey Day.
What does it take?
And Corey caught a lot of flak begin of the year, some justfully so, some not justfully so.
But like, what does it take to take, you know, phenomenal sprint car driver and make them a
winning NASCAR driver?
How hard is that bridge to get?
Yeah, I mean, I'm a big believer that that, you know, if you can drive a 900 whatever
horsepower sprint car on a dirt track and all the different types of tracks that they race at,
you can drive anything.
I just it is a it's like you're holding on to this beast that just is trying to wrangle you.
And and so so and I think dirt teaches a great skill of searching for grip,
searching lines, not running right behind somebody in their tracks,
you know, getting creative and in all these different environments, different competitors.
So I do like that.
What they're missing, though, is, you know, they're very short races.
You got to go, go, go, go right away.
There's no holding back.
And and, you know, you can use the power to do some things.
It's not momentum through the corner.
So so now you got to teach them, you know, pavement, heavy car,
arrow is totally different and and line is critical.
I mean, you can't miss your mark.
I mean, maybe Knoxville, you can't miss your mark if you're on the bottom either.
But in in in, you know, stock cars, you got to be like if you say you got to be on the white
line right here, you got to be on the white line right there.
That's six inches past it.
Yeah. And and so, you know, guys that run late models and guys that run other type of pavement
cars learn those skills, but they don't have all the big power and all the other things.
Right. So there's some kind of blend there.
And and this one's funny because this one like Larson, me, Jeff Andrews,
you know, we both I knew Corey's dad and kind of raced with him a little bit or my dad's car
that he had when we raced in California.
So Ronnie Day knew him, knew their family.
Jeff Andrews knew the family.
And then I'm watching Kyle race and all of a sudden he's this Corey Day kid.
And actually Corey started the midget and warmed it up for me when I did that that
kind of reunion, if you want to call it up in Indianapolis, getting back in a midget.
And so and so so as I'm starting to watch Corey and he's doing so well, we started thinking about
maybe we had to give this guy a shot.
And then I said something to Larson.
He's he's the real deal, man.
He's like, wow, is he fast?
And and so we started sitting down talking how do you go about this?
You know, because we don't really have a driver development program.
Josh Wise and the guys over at GM, they've kind of got a program.
Otherwise, Rick usually calls us and goes, hey, have you seen this kid?
You know, let's get him in something.
Let's get him in something, right?
And that's that's kind of, you know, how that works.
And so so we said, all right, if we're going to do it, let's try to do it right.
Would Rick agree to do it?
He he he did.
But it's mainly because Kyle said, hey, here's what I would do if I were you.
And I believe in him, but just throw him in the deep end.
Like forget all these go through these different stages of learning all these other things.
He's like, just throw him straight in to an Xfinity or, you know, O'Reilly car.
And and so we had a little bit of time to build all that up.
So we put him in a truck or we put him in our car and you got to get him qualified right to
or, you know, get him some laps and something.
So we did all that in some some TA2 road racing.
I'll never forget the first time I went with him and Kyle.
We went out to Ron Fellows' driving school out in yeah, out in near Vegas.
Corey had never pushed in a clutch or driven a manual shift car ever.
And so we go to this road course and and I'm just spanking him.
I mean, it's like and I'm like, listen, dude, I'm old.
Yeah, yeah.
Can't get beat by the boss.
And I mean, he's like not even in my mirror.
He's missing shifts.
He's all off the track.
They're on dirt.
And then Kyle came the next day.
Like first day was just me and Corey playing, getting up up to speed.
And then Kyle came the second day.
In Camaros.
All in Camaros.
And and so and I had to leave the second day.
I think I was there maybe in the morning, but then I had to leave.
And Kyle, I called Kyle.
I'm like, dude, I don't know.
You know, and he's like, what do you mean?
And he's like, he was all over my bumper.
But and I said, what are you talking about?
He's like, oh, yeah.
By the end of the day, dude, I was almost chasing him.
I'm like, no, you're kidding me.
He's like, oh, yeah, whatever you taught him the day before
and whatever he learned overnight, dude, he fixed it.
I was like, OK, like that.
And that was like and it's been like that kind of every step of the way.
I mean, road course racing is a foreign language to any oval racer, in my opinion.
It took it took me a long time to figure it out.
But this is why you got to do it.
So I watched Steve Kinzer come to NASCAR.
Huge failure, right?
It did not go well at all.
You got to get a guy early, whatever it is.
And if you're going to throw him in the deep end,
they got to be a sponge and be able to learn quick.
Think about him like an 18 year old, 19 year old kid
that's never been in a manual shift car.
And they're like, yeah, you're going to go follow Jeff Gordon today.
You're going to have a track day with Jeff.
He'd be probably scared to run in.
Yeah, I'd be off the track too.
So let's I want to zoom out or zoom in either way.
I want to go straight to Darlington yesterday.
Did you go for the race track?
Unfortunately.
I mean, Tyler Redick four out of the first six.
Incredible drive yesterday, alternative troubles.
Back to the front.
You talk about, you know, a place where you have to hit your marks
and how perfect you have to be at Darlington.
You were one of the best at it, winning seven times.
Right before you came in here, I said,
racing at Darlington is like a battle between your mind and your butt.
Because your mind's like, there's no way we can be going the slow.
And meanwhile, your butt's like, yeah, you can go a little, little more.
What's like, what is driving Darlington like?
Yeah, you know, I grew up racing a pavement sprint car at Winchester and Salem.
And in Darlington was sort of a reminder of that with the first time I went there.
And they're like, yeah, you're going to run right up against the wall up high.
And I was like, OK, like, like it didn't seem like that big of a deal
until you get in the race and the tires start wearing out.
And now you're hanging on.
You're trying to stay out of the wall.
But for what I, now again, I had great equipment, right?
So all I had to do was focus on me.
I didn't have to worry about all the other outside distractions.
And so I got to go there with a great car, even Bill Davis, you know,
like Mark and Bill built some great race cars before I got there.
But so Darlington was one of my favorites right from the beginning.
I went there and boom, it just was magic.
But I just like the challenge.
I like, you know, how you had one end of the race track.
You had to do something completely different part on the brakes.
The other end of the race track.
It's just go as fast as you can, slide that thing up to the wall and help it sticks.
So it's awesome.
It is awesome.
I wanted to go.
I wanted to go.
This is a bit of an oddball question.
I'm always curious.
You know, when you hear like NFL Hall of Famers build their perfect quarterback,
right? They take this guy's eyes, this guy's processing speed, this guy's arm.
So if you were to build the perfect NASCAR driver past, present, who do you build?
Well, I mean, first you got to start with the three seven time champions because they,
those three guys all brought, I think something a little bit unique and different, right?
Like, like I didn't race really, I race one race against Richard, but in his prime,
I mean, that guy just was so good, so smooth, so consistent.
Earnhardt, I did get to race with and, and the guy was just tenacious and just a beast, right?
I mean, just, just unapologetic and, and I, and I, I didn't have exactly what he had,
but I would have liked to, right?
So that's why I put him on the list, plus just master of the super speedways.
Wow.
Jimmy Johnson, I mean, I don't know that he had a weakness, right?
So you got to use him.
Got to have Bobby Allison and Kale Yarborough, right?
In there, both of those guys.
I mean, again, two kind of different ways, but, but got to have him in there.
You got to have Pearson.
I mean, I'm just going to take all the greats.
But I would also include Mark Martin for the reasons we spoke about, you know, earlier.
I just pure speed, a guy could extract speed out of it and road course, oval, super speedway,
didn't matter.
He could, he was good everywhere.
So put him in there too.
I'm going to keep the current guys out because that's going to just get me in trouble and not
do me any favors.
No, that's fair.
We're both fathers.
Like you, I have a daughter and a son.
Corey just had his fourth boy.
He won't give her a break.
But I was just talking to your dad out there.
He said, you guys are, you guys are building quite a team.
When you're not racing every weekend anymore, you've got more time for other things.
But you're, you're, your kids are teenagers now, right?
Do they?
My daughter is, yeah, she's 18.
She's, I just, by the way, real quick, I just came back from the Dominican Republic on
senior trip.
Okay.
I didn't enjoy a senior trip.
I was probably racing somewhere.
I didn't know what a senior trip was, but my kids or my daughter, she's like,
we have to go.
And then my wife's like, you have to go with us too.
So we just came back from like four or five days in Dominican Republic.
And like my head's still spinning about what I just witnessed.
So give us your best Jeff Gordon parenting advice for us two young fathers.
Oh, I don't know if I'm the best one, man.
I question my own parenting skills, you know?
You know, listen, I just, I go off of what my parents taught me.
And, and it's, it's, you know, treat people the way that you want to be treated.
You know, be humble, work hard.
And, and, you know, the, the, the, the challenging thing is the discipline, right?
It's like, there's days I want to be really disciplined and my wife's not.
And then there's other days she wants to be really disciplined and I don't.
And so it's the teamwork.
I think it's the teamwork between you and your wife.
That's what's going to make your kids grow up strong.
For sure.
Amen. Do they show any interest in any involvement at Hendrick Motorsports or in racing at all?
So, so my daughter, right, she's, she's graduating this year.
She's going to University of Michigan, which I'm so proud of her.
She's worked so incredibly hard.
She's a pole valter too, which, which is, you know, it's not why she's going to Michigan,
even though I hope she walks on, be kind of cool if she did.
But she just, she just got a PR of 10, 9.
I mean, watching your daughter jump over a pole that's 11 feet up in the air
is kind of crazy.
And, and I, and I see where she's about to go to another level and it's very exciting.
But yeah, I got an emotional thing about my daughter going to college when you said that.
I'm not looking forward to that at all.
So, so my son Leo, he's the ultimate negotiator.
So I could see him excelling at, at, you know, either in the car business or, or motorsports,
something like that.
But Ella seems to show interest in, in what I do and, and, and so if she, you know,
they've got a great business school there at University of Michigan.
So I'm hoping she takes the business classes and there's some things that she can apply to
either whatever she wants to do, or if she wants to, to maybe be involved in Hendrick one day.
Jeff, we can sit here and talk about it all day, but I got to let you go.
Yeah, let me go.
Damn, not yet, not yet, not yet.
I got three questions.
Oh God.
I got to ask every, I got to ask every guest that's been on our show.
And you don't get out.
You don't get out easily.
So the first question is this is, this is one of my favorite ones.
If you had to pick one race car and one racetrack to race the rest of your life, what do you go with?
So my, my favorite.
Now a stock car.
Are we talking about anything you want?
Oh, oh.
Payton.
He's a hard hitting question.
Well, the problem is that I, you know, I drove that F1 car that one time and I never got to race
the F1 car.
I don't know where F1's hot right now and, and I'm an F1 fan.
I still put our stuff up against it every Sunday, any day of the week.
But I will say, yeah, but I will say driving that car was the most.
You did an Indy, correct?
Yeah.
Swap with Michael Schumacher?
No, with Montoya.
Okay.
Yeah.
The most mind blowing, like, like I, I still this day, I'm like, how does a car do that?
You know, when, when you're, you're breaking with the stock car, the marker's not even there.
Yeah.
There was a five, four, three, two, one.
I'm at the seven if it was there, right?
And locking up.
And, and this thing.
Is this, this is you.
Let's, let's run it.
Just walk us through a little bit here, what you're thinking.
It's the flame Dupont paint job.
Do we have audio?
You know, oh yeah, the V10, baby.
Um, yeah, the first quarter, first quarter.
Bring it back.
So, so this is what's wild about these cars is I was out there just trying to kind of
get up to speed.
Oh no, you got to pound it in the car.
So the reason that that happened, no, you need the downforce.
The reason that happened is I drove easy into the corner.
And so they're like, hey, I came in after that because I was scared.
I was like, I don't want to wreck this thing.
And they're like, you, hey, you got to drive in deeper.
You got to drive in harder.
Get on the brakes hard.
And so I did and the thing stuck like glue the rest of the time.
So, but, but this is, uh, this is going into turn one.
You are hauling ass.
Oh my God.
It reaches terminal velocity.
Like the car just stops accelerating.
It's got so much drag and downforce.
And no Hans, the Hans wouldn't fit in that car.
And dude, I could not hold my head up at all.
Hang on.
You drove in the house way.
You just drove.
I think with no house advice, no enough.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, um,
when men were mad,
that was when Hans's were just starting to become mandatory in NASCAR and in F1.
But dude, the way that thing cornered and break, it's just ridiculous.
And even though I'm selling on the wheel a little bit here,
it just, the immediate feedback was just,
you knew when it was stuck and when it wasn't stuck.
You know, when, when it's stuck, you just kept feeding the wheel.
One of my favorite drivers of all time is Juan Pablo.
Oh, he, dude, he's a nut, man.
Yeah.
But really talented, really talented guy.
Yeah.
You didn't mess with him.
Like I, I've got my short list of guys you don't mess with.
Who's on the short list?
Earnhardt, Tony and Juan.
Those are the three.
You got into it with Tony,
but I never seen you get into it with Juan.
I got into it with Tony once.
You know, we kind of had a little,
You were parked next to each other.
Or twice, sorry, twice.
We were, yeah, we were parked, that's the whole video from,
that was Watkins going, dude, it was lap one or two.
We were going up through the yeses and we were both stubborn,
not wanting to give an inch and we, we both wrecked one.
And like Brent had a horrible day after that.
And then we got pissed, you know, next to one another.
And then, and then Bristol, I ended up on the better end of that one.
But, but no, me and Tony, we had a really good understanding.
Harvick, I would say was another one.
He and I really never, never.
He's an intense guy.
Dude, when Harvick, when Harvick got out at Watkins Glen
and went up to Juan Pablo, he realized,
Harvick realized that's the only time a Harvest career realized like,
Okay, this is one guy.
Because he grabbed on the Juan Pablo and Juan Pablo was like,
We going?
Oh yeah.
Hey, wait, Juan Pablo.
But even one was like, maybe I shouldn't, right?
They were both, but, but I mean, you know,
those three guys were guys that, one, I respected,
but also I knew that if I took it too far,
it's going to come back to haunt me more than it's going to.
On or off the racetrack.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Question number two, Jeff.
What's your most embarrassing moment at the racetrack?
Well, did you ever see the video of the golf cart incident with the Looney Tunes?
Yes.
Not good video of it out there, unfortunately.
Unfortunately, actually.
But, but so Looney Tunes is doing this big promotion with Chevrolet
and, and they were sponsoring the events like the Looney Tunes Chevy 400.
And so they brought out all the Looney Tunes characters.
Oh, great.
He's going to pull it up.
We got it.
Of course he has.
That's a boy game.
So they lined us up in these golf carts, dude,
and these golf carts were basically just unlimited.
Like they were, they were fast and they just repaved pit roads.
So the grip level on pit road was ridiculous.
And they're like, yeah, I want you guys go race around cones.
There's Jimmy.
There's Robbie Gordon.
And dude, I go to turn one and I'm gone.
No, I'm gone.
I'm gone.
It's slid you off this front seat.
Oh, I went in there and my cart was souped up, buddy.
That thing I got there in a hurry.
And so, but see, there's not a good angle.
You just, it just comes out without a driver.
There's an angle from the other side.
So I just slide across the bench seat, just zoom right off.
But Jimmy almost runs me over.
Like as I'm tumbling out, he tries to avoid me
and misses my head by like that much.
But, but that was maybe not the most embarrassing part.
Yes, dude, I must have bruised a rib or something.
I could barely get in the car.
That was right before practice.
I could barely get in the car in practice.
So I would say that.
And then, and then the one that that is the probably the most embarrassing
because it's the maybe the one regret that I have
is the Boyer incident at Phoenix.
Yeah.
If I could take back anything, I'd take that one back.
I just lost my shit.
Okay, I'll give you that one to take back.
Now, the third question is this leads into that.
You've seen Men in Black, right?
Will Smith movie.
They got the pen that after you see whatever happens, they do, right?
They zap your memory.
So if I had that pen and I zapped all of your memories,
all your racing memories and you only got to keep one, what do you keep?
Oh my gosh.
Um, it's so hard because between two is between the Brickyard 494,
the inaugural and my last win at Martinsville.
Last win.
Excited kids and it's my, you know, I get to go race for a championship.
It's Martinsville.
I guess if I could only pick one, I'd pick that one.
But that damn Brickyard was pretty sweet.
Where do you keep your clock?
Dude, I have zero clocks in my none zero.
And, and, and I'm not saying that with pride.
I'm just saying like they're spread out all office, Hendrick, you know,
they're, my parents have, like they're, they're out there.
And I gave a couple of way to, I think Ray Evernham has one.
What part have one?
And, you know, Rick now just make, he just has his own duplicate.
But back then we'd maybe, you know, share and trade and stuff like that.
Um, but my house is pretty modern and, and my wife's like, yeah, that's real traditional.
That Ridgeway is not going to look good in the foyer.
All right, man, I, I could say, I love it, man.
I, I freaking love it.
I thank you so much for your time.
I know it's very valuable.
Great show.
Great questions.
I appreciate it.
Absolutely.
Open door policy.
You signed, you signed the, the girl.
Now you know where we're at right here in the Nonsense garage.
Ladies and gentlemen, help me thank Mr. Jeff Gordon for being our second pennies.
More coming up right for this.
Thanks guys.
Man, what a conversation that was, buddy.
A lot going on there.
That's good.
That was really cool to get him in.
I appreciate his time.
Sounded like he was going to chew some ass.
Ah, man.
I don't know.
Hope it's not mine.
A good thing is I don't think he knows what I do.
So, you know, I don't think once he learned to be like, that's son of a bitch.
I was just not going to tell him.
Um, but yeah, they'll get it turned around.
Right. New Chevrolet body.
Toyotas are strong right now.
They'll get it turned around.
But yeah, hard conversations are what make race teams go around.
First time in seven years though, an HMS car has a one in the first six races.
Really?
Yeah.
I'm sure we did not talk about that.
We did not bring that up.
What do you got going on this weekend?
You racing anything?
No.
I got a Martinville broadcast on Friday.
I'd be, be on the flow broadcast with the Mod Tour and then change the tires for Raja back in the 88 this weekend.
As long as I don't get fired this week.
He won't get fired this week.
Running Rockingham next weekend.
That's exciting.
And the truck fired up about that.
Rockingham has been one of your best tracks.
It's repaved.
Hammer.
Damn.
Yeah.
So I got the competition meeting up there at call here at two o'clock.
So I'm going to go up there and try to find a little more speed in that unit.
Just try to keep stacking pennies, keep progressing that program for at least one more week while I'm in it.
Appreciate you guys tuning in each and every week to stack and pennies.
Whether you're listening to us, wherever you find your podcast on the Serious XM Channel 90 YouTube.
What else we got?
Instagram at underscore stacking pennies.
We're going to have a lot of cool clips for you this week.
Breaking down a lot of things with Jeff Gordon.
So I hope you guys enjoyed that as much as I did.
Absolutely.
Holler at us at skip floor.
Is that core of the joy?
Come say hey at the racetrack when you're there.
A lot of penny stock.
Did you get a penny stock this week?
What was the name?
I fired off in the text message thread.
One, one guy was really complimentary is at the merch signing at the random Johnny.
Johnny.
Shout out to Johnny.
Had a lot of people low at Darlington's.
Hey man.
Appreciate the podcast signed a couple things.
So really cool to see everybody at the racetrack.
So yeah, say hey.
Say hey.
Do it for y'all.
That's it.
And I mean, selfishly, I do it because I get to talk to cool people like Jeff Gordon and talk to you.
I like talking to you too.
That's all right.
All right.
You didn't name your kid after me.
You like talking to Carl Edwards better, but I'm a close second.
Close second.
And you guys are a close first as well.
We appreciate your listening and your time each and every week.
This is part of the joy.
Keep stacking pennies, man.
Get you where you want to go.
Have a fantastic week.
About this episode
Jeff Gordon joins Corey LaJoie to unpack Darlington, the evolution of Hendrick Motorsports, and what Jimmie Johnson taught him about staying hungry. Gordon credits Johnson and Chad for raising the whole organization through relentless work, better data habits, and stronger team connection—especially after confidence can turn into complacency. He also shares career recalibration moments, mentoring Corey Day from dirt to NASCAR, and why Darlington demands both mental discipline and tire-management finesse. The conversation closes with Gordon’s favorite “one race/one track” pick, plus his funniest and most regretful track mishaps.
Original notes
Jeff Gordon joins Stacking Pennies to talk about what actually makes great drivers great, how Jimmie Johnson pushed him to evolve, why Hendrick got stronger when it stopped working in silos, what Darlington really feels like, and why sprint car talent doesn’t automatically translate to NASCAR. Plus Corey Day, the modern driver pipeline, Jeff’s career recalibration, and a few unreal stories from one of the legends of the sport.
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