Why are the Rich so Timid; 930 Slant-nose; NSX for SALE?
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Porsche 911
The Porsche 911 is a well-known sports car that has been around for many years. The 'slant nose' version has a unique front design that makes it stand out.
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Porsche 918 Spyder
The Porsche 918 is a very fast and expensive sports car that uses both gasoline and electricity to run. It's designed for high performance and is considered a supercar.
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Gemballa
Gemballa is a company that takes Porsche cars and makes them look and perform even better. They are known for their unique designs and upgrades.
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manual transmission
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horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the more work the engine can do, which usually means faster speeds.
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Chevrolet Corvette
The C5 Corvette is a sports car made by Chevrolet that was built between 1997 and 2004. It's known for being fast and fun to drive, and many people love it for its sleek design and powerful engine.
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Ferrari 360
The Ferrari 360 is a sports car made by Ferrari, famous for being fast and stylish. It was made between 1999 and 2005 and is often considered a classic among car enthusiasts.
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Acura NSX
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mileage
Mileage is how far a car has been driven, measured in miles. The more miles, the more wear and tear the car may have, which can affect its value.
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Ferrari F40
The Ferrari F40 is a famous sports car made by Ferrari. It was built to be very fast and is known for its unique design and powerful engine.
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Buick GNX
The Buick GNX is a special version of a Buick car that was made in the 1980s. It's famous for being fast and is now very collectible.
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Volkswagen Beetle
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Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
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Ferrari Testarossa
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BMW M3
The BMW M3 is a sporty version of the BMW 3 Series. It's known for being fast and fun to drive, making it a favorite among car lovers.
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GT car
GT cars are built for speed and comfort, making them great for long drives. They have powerful engines and nice interiors, so you can enjoy driving fast without sacrificing comfort.
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Porsche 718 Cayman GT4
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Porsche Boxster
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mid-engine
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Porsche Panamera
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Porsche 911 GT3
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Danny McLaughlin
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Porsche 935S
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930 turbo engine
The 930 turbo engine is a powerful version of the engine used in the Porsche 911. It has a turbocharger that helps it produce more power, making the car faster.
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Porsche Safari
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sound deadening technology
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tire noise
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Porsche 959
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gearbox
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Tremec
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air-cooled cars
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water-cooled cars
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What's up, everybody? Welcome to the Smoke and Tire podcast.
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All right.
On this episode of the program, I talk about a revelation I've had about selling the NSX
based on the Miles versus Capitalism equation.
I've just been talking to a bunch of collectors for an article, so we go further into that
topic.
Zach has had a go in a very cool slant nose 9-11.
And we have some fabulous topics from our patrons.
That's the Smoking Tire podcast.
Let's go.
Are you sore today?
I'm sore and I'm so tired.
You are?
I had to get up at like 6.30 to take center to the airport, so I have not caught up
on sleep.
But yes, I am sore.
I was amazed at how sore I was when I was home, when I got home, and then how fine
I was today.
So that's pretty good.
Day 3 hamstrings.
Day 3 hamstrings.
The problem with hamstring work is that they finally stop hurting on Day 3, and you're
like two days away from having to do legs again.
I know.
Well, my trainer just went to Japan for 10 days.
That is helpful.
I have no, I'm so spoiled, no trainer for 10 days, and I'm home all of those days.
Don't you write down like, I guess you don't because he tells you what to do.
He also left me like a, it's not about that.
I'm not paying for that.
I know what to do.
It's the, it's accountability.
Sure.
I'm like, I'm exchanging money for my own accountability.
Totally get it.
I would do it.
Yeah.
I would totally do it.
It's probably, outside of cars, it's probably the most like luxurious thing in my life
is trainer.
Sarah, she's like, what would you buy if you won the lottery?
And I thought about it.
And I went, I would go to Red Bull's physical therapy building that surely exists
somewhere.
And I would be like, please fix my spine.
Yeah.
And all the money in the world here.
Yeah.
Zach and I just got back from a little trip.
And we had, we went, well, for reasons that will become incredibly clear soon, we went
to Zion National Park, which was quite lovely, great fucking perfect time of year.
It was gorgeous, fall colors, bright sun.
But I was slightly underdressed in the morning.
It was a little chilly, it was a little cold up there.
I sold Matt and my beanie for $1,000.
But it was, you know, we drove a very long way to take a, I don't know, reasonably challenging
hike.
And, you know, to go from long car to hike to car is not good for one's body.
Yeah.
So generally frowned upon doing things like that.
And yet here we are.
We did it.
So, soreness achieved.
But better, better today.
Nice to see you all.
So many fun things to talk about.
Not really.
There's a few.
There are a few.
The fun, okay, there's a couple things.
One is remember how when we talked a couple episodes ago when I was driving the 918 about
like what a bummer it is that most people that can earn enough money to buy a 918 won't
put miles on it because when it comes to car enthusiasm, like car enthusiasm is great until
capitalism can beat it.
If you're, if you're a capitalist, like hardcore, like if you, you know, if you're, if you're
a money making machine and you've got million dollar cars, you can't, the mentality of
the value of the car going down is too powerful, even more powerful than the dream of the
little kid who would daily drive that car.
It's, I think the feeling of loss in a human is like a psychologically hard thing to handle,
even if it's just my car that was worth 700 grand is now 678.
So what's funny is, is that it happens at scale, at like a, like an entry level scale.
Right.
Like the, I think the most entry level partial, the reason I bring it up is because
I just came from a, from an interview I did with a big time car collector, more money than
got, you know him, he's a, he's a friend of ours, he's a friend of ours, not a friend
of theirs.
And he's a man of incredible taste, okay.
There's no arguing this dude buys dope, interesting shit, deeply interesting shit, not a surface
level collector at all.
And he's got a lot of stuff that's incredibly unique and the amount of money that he just
told me he spends just keeping his shit going is crazy, crazy.
But this is what, this is what he's into and he can afford it, fine.
He, I took the time to poke into, he has a, I don't know if I can say what it is.
He's got a, that Ui Gimbala Marsian thing, that off, it's a, it's a, it's like a, it's
like a, the fucking, if the 9-Eleven Dakar was Bruce Banner, this is the Hulk.
It's based on a 9-Eleven Turbo, but it's a big, it's a, it's an off-road 9-Eleven.
Look at this fucking thing.
Yes.
Oh.
It's that.
This is Gimbala's kid.
Not Ui Gimbala.
Right.
What's the, Ui was the guy who died.
It's the kid, Gimbala.
Whatever the son's name, Gimbala.
It's not look, didn't Singer make a Dakari thing and then they got, they had to take Porsche
off it.
It looks a little bit like it.
It looks a little bit like it.
It looks similar.
This one's a little more like Spaceship-y.
Okay.
It's not, I feel bad I said Ui Gimbala.
It's definitely not, it's, it's his kid.
I can't remember the kid's name.
Is it Mark?
Mark.
Yes.
Sorry.
Mark Phillip Gimbala, does that sound right?
Maybe?
Yeah.
Anyway, it's, it's an off-road thing.
Whoa.
It's very expensive.
They're not making a lot of them.
I was poking around it.
It seems very nicely made.
It's a manual transmission.
It's like a shitload of horsepower.
You know, it's, so it's based on the, it's based on the 911 Turbo S.
Okay.
And then it's taken from there.
So it's, so it's not carbon, it's metal because it's made from a Turbo S.
I believe the body is full carbon.
Oh, okay.
Except for maybe the doors.
Right.
But the Unibody.
It's not like a roof where the Unibody shut.
No, no, it's not like a roof.
Okay.
It's like a coach-built and Dakar-ized Turbo S.
Turbo S.
Whoa.
Effectively.
With a manual gearbox.
Whoa.
Yeah.
And I mean, look at this thing.
This is a, and I, you know, how does it drive?
It's amazing.
You know, I was like, dude, let's fuck, let's go out.
Yeah.
And rip this thing.
And even he, he said, I can't do it.
It's too valuable.
I go, hey, guy's name, fuckhead, because he's our age.
Right.
Oh.
Yeah.
But he's not much older than that.
Right.
And I could, I could talk to, you know, he's not that rich.
I could talk to him.
I go, what are you doing?
And he goes, it's too valuable.
I can't do it.
But what's the point?
And I go, I go, you can afford it.
Like you literally can afford it.
And he's like, it's not about, and he said, he said it back to me.
He goes, it's not a Ford.
It's a state of mind.
It's too valuable to, he, this, by the way, this guy's daily is a Dakar.
So it's not like, like he's, he, and he said, I'll go beat the balls off
the Dakar.
Will he though?
I don't know.
Okay.
And that, and I say that if you're listening with respect, because he might not be a off-road
go fast rally person.
He also isn't that, which I think is, is a skill someone learns either by doing it
like an idiot when we did in our twenties and then continuing, or you go to rally
school, you get a taste for it in your, in adulthood, and then you go keep doing
it.
Sure.
But I don't know.
And I don't know if he ever actually will do it.
He basically said that mentally he could, whereas in this, because it's valuable, and
it's, you know, A, it's, it was so expensive and B, it's worth apparently a lot more than
he, that, you know, he's turned down whatever, so multiple.
So it's already gone up.
Yeah.
So did you ask him, like, why did he buy it?
I didn't get that deep into it.
Okay.
I, I was really.
I know you were focused on a different topic.
I was there for a different reason.
I had a limited amount of time, but I just, I bring it up now.
Yeah.
And I mean, if, if, if the audience really finds it that interesting to figure out why
somebody who dreamed of maybe something and now has it might not use it for the thing
that it's meant for, like, dude, just look at any fucking boomer and their C five
Corvette dude.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, true.
Look at any, that was, that's where I was going with this was the other level.
These are the extremes.
The nine 18 is like close to the top, but not as a, we're now talking about a guy.
And by the way, he goes, he goes, it's funny that you were driving the nine 18 last week.
We're back at the collector's garage now.
It's funny you're driving that.
He goes, I just bought one with 13,000 miles because I would like to put a few thousand
miles on it and have it not go down in value.
And I was like, I think that's pretty smart.
But like also it could go down in value.
Like you can afford for it to go down in value.
The amount of cash burn you have to just keep this fucking whole show going.
Right.
Is right.
It's very good point.
Is money that you're not, you know, getting back.
And I so and I'm not like this as this isn't to shit on this dude.
Like, I mean, I just, I think he accurately the thing, the thing that I
thought about at a certain level with the nine 18, this guy who could buy a fucking
hundred and fifty nine 18s if you wanted, can't mentally get past.
There is a level where he can't use the thing for the thing.
Yeah, it's a higher level.
Right.
Yeah, like maybe someone like you or me.
Like if you got, if you got all of a sudden a bunch of money, like you
might buy, I don't know, a Ferrari 360 and daily it, like Venonatra or
something like that, right?
Yeah.
Like, but you, but you, you know, so there's a scale where it all happens.
I wonder if for him and other people that have, you know, earned the money to get
to that, like if every decision they made from when they were 16 to 40 has been
so focused on optimizing, building their bit, like everything they did was
optimize, build, don't like cut loss.
Yeah.
And it's just like it's in their DNA, it's their muscle memory now.
And they go, I can't, I can't turn that off when I'm thinking of my
cars, I'm thinking of it the same way I thought of my business, which is just
a bummer.
Well, yeah, because, because the way people justify buying cars to themselves
is that it's an asset that I'm not spending the money.
I'm parking.
Right, right, right.
I'm going to get it back.
It's a good investment.
They're going up, honey.
You know, that's true.
Whatever you have to tell yourself.
And I'm not better than that at all, by the way.
No, of course, you've bought a lot of cars, timed them well.
Yeah, and some of them, and the ones that I've had the most fun with were the ones that
had miles on them and some fucking English on them and they weren't so pristine.
I'm about to, yeah, I guess I can say it, why the fuck not.
I'm about to list my NSX at auction because it's, it's just, it's too nice to fucking
use as a car.
It's driving me nuts.
Can't do it.
That's my, but I'm thinking about it.
I'm there, I'm doing the thing where I like, I'd be careful how I get in it because I don't
want to wrinkle the seat and I don't want to do any of that.
It's got to go.
Can't do it.
You haven't driven it that much.
Is it?
So a question about this.
I bought it in 2023, right, 2023?
Yeah, I bought it in 2023, summer of 23, and I've driven it 3,100 miles.
Not that much, but like, not nothing.
Is it, is it too nice of a version of NSX or is it like something else where you, it's,
there's six cars, it's too many and you need five or something like that.
Yeah, I thought that car was going to be a car that I could like use kind of like an
everyday or car because it's easy and all the controls are light and everything.
But then like miles are kind of expensive on really low mile NSX's.
When I got to like hit 20,000 miles and I was like, oh, and now is like the difference between
one with 20,000 and 25,000 or 20,000 and 30,000 is a substantial difference whereas in a way
that one that has 60,000 and 65,000 is virtually no difference, right?
So just with that car and it's also like pristine and it's also, you know, it's
just, and also I have too many cars and the thing that car was supposed to be to run around
town car, that's the fucking banks.
All day, every day, all day.
Plus when you have press cars, when you have press cars, like if you were, if you, if all
you did was own this parking garage and didn't get press cars, maybe you'd cycle through
the six more often.
But when you added those in, you're like, well, I have to drive this.
And which ones get chosen, you know, top of the list, bottom of the list.
Don't have time.
Yeah.
So, you know, our friend with all the cars, part of the reason I chose him to interview
for this story, which is a story about people that have big collections and the nuts and
bolts of the big collections are, is that he has a full-time mechanic and a full-time
collection manager.
What's that like?
You know?
So anyway.
Wow.
But yeah, it just, it was, it had me thinking that it had, there's no scale that it doesn't
happen.
Now, it doesn't mean there couldn't be, you know, a car, the rare car collector that
truly doesn't give a fuck.
It happens.
You know, the guy who was like camping in his Ferrari F40 or whatever.
Oh, yeah.
Brian, something like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great follow.
Yeah.
Like, you know, there's, there's people out there that don't give a fuck and
like, God bless them.
Maybe they've like, maybe that's like royalty money, or maybe it's like hockey stick profit
curve tech money where they got the fucking money so fast they can't spend it fast enough.
So whatever, whatever it is, like, there's ways around it, but like in your, in your
kind of like old school capitalist view of car collecting, it always beats the enthusiasm,
I think, or 90% of the time it does.
But I, but I think you hit on a good point though, where if someone, if it's a boomer,
or whatever, anybody who saved a lot of money for a lot of money to them for a long time to
buy like the thing, they had a thing on a poster on the wall and they were like, for 30 years,
I've been thinking about this vet and now I have one for them to go out and drive the
shit out of it.
It's probably really rare psychologically because most people are like, this is a
precious thing.
Yeah.
I worked really hard and I just like driving around, but I'm not going to beat on it
or I'm not going to risk it because I'm going to risk hurting this thing that I've
loved for 30 years.
So maybe it happens even at this high, high scale.
It does.
So it's a tough, it's, it's tough.
Because the cars are usually a lot tougher than you think they are, you know, and as
long as you don't literally break it, the next person just sees the number on the
odometer and the fucking service records, you know what I mean?
As long as you're not like literally abusing it to the point of breaking, engineers put
in a lot of effort to like, like nothing would go wrong if you drove your own car
like we drive press cars.
Like nothing.
They'd be fine.
Yeah.
Like they'd be totally fine.
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What's weird is with cars like the Gambala, like Porsche, Corvette, some of the less expensive
cars, whatever, they've made their name by being durable and winning races and doing
endurance stuff and people go, oh, you can buy used ones and they're still really strong.
But these really, really expensive one-off, five-off builds, their marketing video
is like, look what it can do.
But if no one does that with them, then that legacy kind of, it's all based on marketing
and kind of fizzles.
It doesn't have that endurance.
Yeah.
Well, that's part of why Porsche sports cars or so have become such a thing now because
for the last 15 years, there's been all of this both from within Porsche and from
the outside, all this media of like people doing shit with their Porsche's on top
of racing, like whatever, Triple Zero, Type 7, Luft, whatever the fuck, air, water, like
you see them out doing the thing all the time, yeah.
The number of times we're in the canyons during the week, weekend, and you see Porsche
groups go by, I mean, it's got to be 10 to 1 versus Ferrari groups or any other make
besides BMW.
Yeah.
They're not all super expensive.
No.
It's all like 996 and two generations back boxers.
Yeah.
Like that happens, too.
Mm-hmm.
Shout out to the Motoring Club.
But yeah, anyway, it just, it got me thinking.
What do you think is, where's the lowest, what's the, I can't think of anything cheaper
than like basically Corvettes where people would buy them and keep them that precious
for so little money.
Oh, the GNX, remember that documentary?
I think, I bet there's Volkswagen folks like Beetle folks, Carmen Gia folks, I don't know
what the entry price is.
I think there's probably a price floor of like a $20,000 car.
Below that maybe people, it'll be precious to them because they bought it and they love
it, but they won't preserve it because it's just below that price you're not
going to get something that's cool and in that pristine condition.
Right.
It won't be that pristine to begin with.
This happens a lot when people are buying brand new cars.
When you have the funds to be buying fine cars, brand new, that happens a lot.
Or if you're buying them used like new, like for instance, you're fortunate enough
where you could find a Testerosa with 300 miles on it or something, an 80s one, something
like that.
And I've now fallen into the low mileage trap twice.
I don't want to say it hasn't served me well.
I'll probably turn a profit on the NSX, unlike the BMW M3, but like, and then I've enjoyed
driving it.
I'm not saying I haven't enjoyed driving it, but it's, I feel, and you know, I talked
about it with Spike.
The NSX is a two-year experience.
Yeah, I agree.
Once you drive it a few times, you go, okay, I get this.
I get why people like it.
I get it's nice.
But like the other thing an NSX does is like go 300,000 miles.
So if you're not going to do that, you know, it's a really comfortable car for that.
Like I love them as GT cars, but around town, like the shifter is perfect, but the steering
is not.
Yeah.
Ergonomics are okay, even at my height in size and stuff, like the seats kind of
lean back.
And you go, oh, I understand why we have the car, the supercars we have today
because of this thing, but this was still a step.
It's a great car to own if you don't also own a GT4 or a Boxster Spider.
If you have a Boxster Spider, you can draw a straight line from this now better.
Yeah.
Almost any mid-engine car from the last 18 years is better than the NSX and is an evolution
of it.
Yeah.
It was fun for a bit to have the 328 and the NSX and the Boxster at the same time
because you could draw a line right through those cars.
Mid as fuck.
There's a shirt.
So that would be a good shirt.
So mid.
So mid.
That would be a good shirt.
Hey.
Copyright.
Copyright.
We got one.
Sometimes we think in t-shirt.
I'm just going to write that down.
Yeah.
Just in case.
T-member.
I'll remember for sure.
Yeah, right.
My brain's fantastic at that.
Oops.
I put a new cartridge in my fountain pen today.
Since I've had this pen, it's been about, let's say, six months since I've had this
particular Lamy Safari in aluminum, I'm on my third cartridge.
Cool.
Which makes me very happy.
And actually, I found a fucking really good use for these pens.
The fountain pens are like different colors.
So I use a black one at home, a blue one at the office, and a green one on the road.
And so I can now go back and look and go, and just in case I care ever, where did I write
those notes from?
Are the notes also, well, if you're at the office and you write notes about press cars
and work stuff.
Yes.
Is it all in the same color?
See, a smarter person would use the color theory in order to identify almost like one
does on a computer.
Right.
Like highlighter.
A sheer novelty of where was I when I wrote that, because like I keep wondering, yeah.
This is, I like, this is like, I don't want to carry through.
I want to carry no pen.
Yeah.
I want there to be a pen where I'm at.
I don't want to carry three pens.
That's the wrong solution to this problem.
You've taken like the location services on an iPhone where you take a picture.
You've made that as manual as it gets.
It's analog shit.
It's analog as hell.
It's a fucking founted pen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not, it's not even, you're not writing the location.
You're just doing a certain color.
That's cool though.
Totally.
It's going to organize your memories.
So, you know, in 30 years you can look through these and go, oh, I wrote this in Spain.
I am now, I'm proficient enough in the process of notebooking that I do not feel
the only way my notebooking process can be improved from here.
I feel is almost impossible, which is to actually have a notebook that's made with the columns
and shit in it that I actually need.
It's going to happen.
I would, I'll bet you whatever you want.
I've searched for this for a long time.
I know.
I've tried the bullshit AI.
My confidence in AI is completely lost based on the search results for this particular
thing alone.
It has, it has given me weeks, chat, GBT has given me, and I talk about my, my East Coast
programmer team, Mike and Brandon, they, they're my go-to computer people.
They're high, high up executives in computer shit.
They're my, all my go-to.
Even they, nope.
There were no prompts that resulted in.
Oh, and trying to find.
Finding if any company actually makes another note, kind of notebook.
But does any other companies that will make a custom notebook?
They will not make custom pages.
Got it.
They'll make all kinds of custom colors.
You can, you all, you basically cannot get.
I think this will happen one day.
It's one day.
It'll be great.
And if anyone really does know, custom page notebooks, they cannot be, repeat after
me folks, into your fucking chat, GBT shit.
They cannot be spiral bound.
Right.
You can get a hundred fucking spiral bound notebooks.
Custom.
Sure.
They can really look like a, like a moleskin style.
It's gotta be bound.
Hardcover bound book.
And that's, that's probably where the challenge comes from because some companies mass
producing these pages and then another company buys them and binds them.
Yeah.
Dude, I mean, and, and the amount like what sucks is like I would spend a good amount
of money to order a hundred of them and it would last me the rest of my life
and you, the rest of your life too.
But that's like, at a corporate level, that's like nothing.
Yeah.
You know, you go to, you go to a custom book place and it's like, that's like the
second smallest order you could get of even production level shit.
But the pressure of making sure it's perfect because then you know, you use the
first one, you go, you know, if I, because I, that's how you would say it, you
go, if I could change one thing, I go, well, we have 99 of these.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So maybe I need, I need someone to get, buy a blank one and then just
hand draw each pay.
I'll just pay a little person and you know.
They could do that.
Some day and do it on every single page.
Someone could do that in like a day.
On 300 pages?
Yeah.
They probably could actually.
If you have a, if you, you know, if your parameters are specific, if they
made a special...
If you just had a ruler and a, and then three colors of fountain pens, you
could do it.
Oh, wow.
Calling all calligraphers, I guess.
Or out of work architects or something.
Yeah.
They're good at lines.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, that's a summary procedure.
Someone asked a question on the last show about buying a Porsche
Panamera with 14-way seats and putting in a 18-way seat.
Right.
We said that would be a stupid thing to waste time and money on.
Our, our in-house Porsche expert, Marco at TLG Auto, said it, you
literally can't do it.
Yeah.
It does not work.
Yeah.
He said, even if you plug in all the right wires, the programming
and the harness and the computer will freak out.
And he tried to do it with a GT3.
He tried to put in the race buckets and take out the sports seats.
Well, that's actually the more practical information for our
audience.
True.
If you want a GT3 with buckets, you got to buy the car with
buckets.
Yeah.
You can't go, oh, yeah, I'll just get a set of buckets on fucking,
bring a trailer or something, because it won't work.
You'll have airbag lights according to him and maybe more problems,
I'm not sure.
Yeah.
But basically, you can't do it.
But the reason I brought that up is because you got to just
drive one of his cars, which is a slant nose 930.
Is it a real slant nose?
No.
I forget.
It was converted.
But it's a steel conversion, right?
Yes.
Not a fiberglass one.
So in terms of how they drive, it's representative of what a
steel slant nose 930 would drive like.
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And now back to the show.
Yeah, so this is a 74, 9-11.
The second owner, when he took possession in 76,
had it converted by a guy in LA.
Well, actually guys, name is important.
His name is Danny McLaughlin
and he built a bunch of racing body work
for 935s back in the day.
So he did high quality stuff
but it also has a factory turbo, 930 turbo engine,
transmission, suspension and brakes.
So it's like, it's not a factory slant nose turbo
but it has all of the underpinnings of one
and then the body work is pretty damn legit.
And it's not made of just fiberglass.
I think the front valence is fiberglass
but the fenders, the hood
and anything else that was put on it is steel.
Yeah, this was funny because I've said
before on the show, like I didn't like the slant nose.
I think they look weird.
And I still think from some angles,
like the profile, the drop from the windshield
is aggressive. They are weird, yeah.
You can see everything.
But at certain angles, it looks rad
and I kind of am starting to get it.
Like the front three quarter or head on
with the fender flares, like it was a pretty fun thing.
This color is a desert beige.
It's pretty cool and everybody loves this thing.
I had a guy pull up next to me in a Panamera,
roll his window down and just start clapping
on the highway.
Young people were just like staring
and giving thumbs up.
It's the right period color and it's a very pretty car.
Slant noses are a little awkward to me.
I do prefer a pontoon fender in a road going 9-11.
But the interior of this thing,
this car is extremely cocaine.
This is got, it's got the supple leather
and all these fucking extra weird bells
and whistles in this thing.
Seats are maybe just like late 80s seats.
Very comfortable thing.
They're definitely not from a 74.
You couldn't get those in 74.
But whatever, they're fucking sweet power seats.
There's just leather everywhere.
And the leather is such, I mean it's got,
it just feels really high quality
because back then there's probably like one kind of leather.
And now there's like blends
and there's this synthetic this
or I don't know, it just felt thicker.
Felt more like baseball glove leather,
a little bit.
It was really nice.
Now, why am I, now I'm questioning myself about that.
What is the first year you could get
the eight-way power seat in a 9-11?
I feel like it was later than that.
But maybe I'm a fucking idiot.
This is it, this says it was offered from 85 to 94?
That sounds right.
With the, starting with the Carrera through the 964.
That's what that sounds more like.
This is on Pelican parts.
Yeah, because my 87 Carrera came
with the eight-way power seats.
My Safari car, that had power seats, that was an 87.
Okay, so yeah, not 74.
Yeah, yeah, eight-way adjustable and this person,
this is Pelican parts form,
but it says 80 something.
It was a nice addition.
I mean, this thing, it was very comfortable.
This would be a great car to drive
like thousands of miles, except it's loud inside.
And it's like the sound deadening technology back then,
just, I guess doesn't exist.
I mean, the tire noise isn't crazy,
but it's just air, tire, diff, trans,
and it's not insulated with 600 pounds of insulation.
And so I drove from TLG down here,
did, commuted around a little bit, drove back,
and I just was on the 405 at 65 miles per hour
going, it's pretty loud in here.
You know, there's just a lot more noise
coming into the cabin.
Yeah, the only really quiet 911 of that period
was the 959, which is not a,
it was like they did so much to make it that way.
It was really surprising.
Yeah, I mean, this is just how cars were back then.
Cool though, it was cool.
It was cool and fast.
Just a good thing, as Thaddy said,
to drive from here to your vacation house
in Santa Barbara, that's what it's for.
I wouldn't want to track it.
Canyon 710s, like, you know, the steering is light
and very, it's just like light, slower ratio,
and then, you know, gearbox is like,
there's a, not a stiffness to these things,
but it feels like there's rubber holding
onto the shaft as it moves.
Do you know that sensation?
Like you're going from two to three,
and it's like you're pushing through some rubber
as you get there.
You can't do like a fast throw.
Yeah.
And it's not difficult like a Tremac.
Oh, really?
Yeah, for ours, it's a slow gear change.
Yeah, it's a slow gear change,
but man, it was a cool thing,
and everybody loved it to see it.
Do you still, do you like air-cooled cars yet?
Yeah, I'm coming around.
I'm coming around.
I still think the argument of like,
the superiority versus water-cooled
is something that I will probably argue
for a very long time, but I think.
If the superiority is that they don't boil the water,
they don't even eat, I guess.
Yeah, but if you have a good radiator and stuff,
like those don't overheat.
I will say that I have had in my old cars,
I always, every time I have an old car,
I have a temperature issue of some kind.
Usually it gets fixed and then it's fine,
but like having owned old water-cooled cars
and an old air-cooled car,
it is really nice to not have one less gauge
you have to monitor.
Oh, you mean that your old water-cooled cars
have had problems?
Yeah, the Tundash,
the Ferrari 328 have had,
you know, occasionally an issue with either the radiator,
there's a bubble in the cooling system.
That's usually something simple like that,
you have to, but the 328,
I had to fucking burp the cooling system like once a week
and that's like normal, apparently.
And that's annoying, so you should not have to do that.
I think what I'm doing is I'm unfairly comparing
Porsches from the oil, yeah, I'm gonna say,
oil-cooled era to the water-cooled era.
So there's also different generations, different technology.
If I was selecting sports cars from 77,
then I'd have a fair comparison,
but it won't support my argument.
Compared to the shit that everyone else was doing
in the 70s and 80s, the air-cooled stuff
is absolutely mechanically superior.
Yeah, okay, then I will concede that.
Cause people get mad, they go,
I hate when we change to water-cooled,
and you're like, why?
That's when I get confused.
Yeah, no, that Porsche had,
they had to do that eventually,
but like, if you're talking about vintage shit,
fucking, it's expensive to maintain,
but it's very headache-free once you get it, you know,
right, and you'd never, ever, ever have to worry
about it actually overheating.
I think, I like air-cooled cars
cause they're old and I like old cars.
But then when I drive, I literally got out of this thing
and then four days later we drove this other car
and I went, oh yeah, modern steering ratios
are really nice, modern steering feel is better
in a lot of ways.
So there's definitely things that modern cars do better
even from a subjective standpoint.
Should have had an extra caffeine.
Well, this might wake you up if you were to come
into the business here and see this particular thing.
This is a funny thing I wanted to show you.
Oh, this is a roll into the shop?
Or mechanic advice?
Mechanic advice.
Is this normal?
And here's what you're.
Oh.
Is that battery smoking?
It's smoking or steaming.
And from what I've read below, both are bad.
Both are really bad.
Yeah, so this is like a battery charger
in the waiting room that's charging two.
In the lobby?
In the lobby.
Oh no.
And there's steam or smoke coming out of the edge
of one of the batteries.
Wow.
Yeah.
So we once pulled, we once had to pull out a battery
from a very old car and the battery was,
I mean it must have been from the 80s.
Like old, the car came in,
the car came in on a flatbed, did not run.
But we were, you know, asked to just try
the most basic measures to get it to run.
So we took the battery out.
And when we pulled the battery up,
like the top came off the battery.
Oh.
And like it spilled like some acid,
like actual, like in the, it was,
and we're like, okay, you know,
let's, now it's a problem.
Now it's a problem.
Now it's a problem.
Whoa.
We had to go slightly hazmat.
That's really bad.
That wasn't great.
But yeah, if your batteries plugged into a,
any kind of charging device,
steam or smoke, equally problematic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The advice there was leave the room immediately.
We also once had a battery that we was dead
and we tried to bring it back to life
using the big battery booster,
which does work sometimes.
Like batteries, like even when we keep them
on tenders, batteries die every five or six years,
even if they're on tenders.
But like, so we tried to,
we tried to at least,
we took the battery out of the car,
like was in this video,
but not fucking in the lobby.
And we had it on a battery tender.
And after about 15 minutes,
we started to hear it bubble.
Like it was a little gurgling sound.
Okay.
And it was an immediate unplug
and put the fucking battery outside.
Right.
You know, and we had to call
like the special electronics, you know,
disposal line and said,
hey, we want to dispose of this battery,
but it's gurgling.
And they were like, well,
put it outside and leave it there
for like 24 to 48 hours.
Before they come get it.
And they said like,
and like if it stops gurgling,
you know, then it's fine
and you can just take it to like,
you know, auto zone or whatever.
Or if it's still gurgling,
definitely call us back.
I was like, okay.
And you can also,
and this is like if like lithium ion batteries,
if they're swelling or steaming,
take them outside and call the fire department
because they have the technology to deal with it.
And like, yeah, that's why you call us
before it burns down a building.
Yep.
But no, I saw this is,
I get a newsletter.
Do you get oligarch watch?
No.
Do you get popular information?
Yes.
So popular information is like really important.
It's like an accountability newsletter
by a guy named Judd Legum.
And then when fucking Elon Musk
bought his way into the government,
they started a newsletter called Musk Watch
because he was like firehosing information,
actions and stuff that was like very consequential
so fast it deserved its own newsletter.
Yeah, Joe Rogan asked him about all of that stuff
when Elon was on the show recently.
And now they have,
they've added another one,
which is oligarch watch,
which I really recommend.
And it's just a roundup of like everything
these technocrats are doing every day.
And just, it's not even opinion.
It's just like, this person did this.
And like this person did this.
And it's just a record of the actions of these folks.
Is it fun to read?
It's real fun.
Oh, okay.
And so anyway, on the earnings call,
Elon Musk said that FSD drivers
will soon be able to text and drive.
Basically saying that's all people really wanna do anyway.
And so using the technology that we have
and the driver,
because they don't have camera monitoring, right?
So you look away, no problem.
And if you're on FSD, you're not supposed to use your,
you don't need your hands anyway.
So they're just basically gonna let,
release the permissions and let you text and drive.
This is illegal in 48 of 50 states and DC.
It's a good point.
And Puerto Rico.
Right, yeah, you get a ticket for it.
Like it's literally like,
if you're using that, that's still an L2 system.
You are in charge, you are driving
and like people are gonna do it.
But I'm just saying like,
he's basically just said like,
we're gonna let you do this thing in your car
that's illegal.
Well, and I guess then there'll be the question of,
I know the answer is no,
but is Tesla gonna go to every state
demonstrate this new technology
and show that someone could text and drive and do this?
Or will he leave it to the consumer
to have the discussion with the officer
on the side of the road?
Well, there's a parallel.
They're saying that they will have
a functioning robo taxi service.
And it's basically people in regular cars using FSD.
It's not an actual robo taxi service.
They haven't, like, there's people in there.
Why are you looking at me like that?
But is his robo taxi service mean you're the taxi driver?
You drive your car, pick me up,
and you use FSD and that counts as a robo taxi?
That's what they're doing now.
In Austin and they're saying they're gonna expand
this to other cities,
but it's just a regular car with FSD
and there's a person using it
and they're calling that a robo taxi
as opposed to Waymo where there is no driver.
And as of two days ago,
Waymo's can drive on freeways in LA.
Waymo's can now drive on freeways
in a couple major cities.
I think Phoenix, San Francisco, LA, maybe one other one.
Maybe Austin.
And there's a big different,
Waymo did a lot of testing.
They still do it around here
where there's a driver, a person in the driver's seat.
But they did it without customers
to get the data and proven, da-da-da.
But Tesla, again, is like, we need the money now.
So we're gonna call it robo taxi,
but there's a driver and then you get in the back.
The definition of robo anything
needs to be without human, doesn't it?
We 100% need to ride one of those and film it
and see how many corrections are made.
But also, he's saying that you're gonna text,
you can text and drive with this system,
which is a, man, I just, I hate everything.
I think every earnings call,
it seems like there's always a hyperbolic statement
to bring in more money, right?
Yeah, I mean, it's all bullshit, obviously,
but it's, this one is, see,
the thing is this one isn't bullshit
or it doesn't have to be bullshit.
Like, when he says like, stupid shit,
like, you see, he also said that you won't need,
the government could save money
because they wouldn't need like a parole department
because basically if you did a crime,
you would be assigned an optimist robot
that would follow you around
and make sure you didn't do crime.
Exactly, that was another very dumb thing
he said recently to bring in more money, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
An optimist robot that follows you
around and makes sure you don't do crime.
What?
That's how you sell 350 million optimist robots.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Right.
Weirdo.
That's, none of that is a thing.
So let's see, so selling and maintaining robots
would be cheaper than the parole department.
And I'm sure that the entire US parole department
is expensive, that's, those are humans,
but I think humans should probably keep an eye
on criminals more than just a robot
that follows you around.
You could have a surveillance state controlled by Elon Musk
that watches the criminals.
Right.
I'm just saying that to him seems like a good idea.
He's full, he's full of ideas, certainly.
But yeah, this one.
You know what he should do?
He should do an interview with Ross Duthat.
And then also I saw, do you see this morning
that Stellantis is recalling two years
worth of four by E-jeeps, 113,000 jeeps
because there was sand and debris got into the blocks
during the casting process.
Oh my God.
And they all have bad, bad engine blocks.
But they had a recall for these,
a few years ago because of fire.
The 4XE is having trouble.
Yeah, it seems like maybe you shouldn't get one.
But yeah, so this is the,
the self-destructing turbo engine.
I saw it on the drive.
It's the bottom of this page here earlier today.
It's, yeah, it's Grand Cherokees.
Remember we drove the Grand Cherokee 4XE?
That was rough.
Well, so they recalled 375,000 of them recently
over fire risk.
And I remember this.
Oh, you have parked it outside.
It's holding the park outside.
And now they're recalling, I mean.
Were the batteries steaming?
I think there's a risk of that.
They're steaming something.
So now, but now self-destructing turbo 4.
Sand contamination.
That's not great.
And I know we're not, you know,
there's a lot of recalls that happen across the industry.
Toyota, they just recalled more Tundras.
Turbo 6s.
They recalled even more of them
cause it's like a manufacturing problem.
I mean, it's not a foreign body like sand entering it
but it's causing a similar issue.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
That's not great.
Building cars is hard.
But man, the 4XE has had a rough time.
That remember the one we drove?
Yes.
It was terrible.
It was.
And it was in theory working properly.
And it was really bad.
Well, the hybrid integration was weird.
The way it would click on and off was weird.
Then the transmission programming was strange.
It was very like jerky and unrefined.
And we were at the airport, we got in it,
we drove for 12 minutes and I was like,
the RAV4 hybrid does not do this.
The one that my wife drives every day
is pretty seamless.
And this thing, it was like surging a little bit
and kicking on weird.
And more vibration.
I mean, it was just a bad execution of that idea.
And it was not a particularly old and beat car.
I mean, it wasn't brand new, but it was fine.
Yeah.
Weird, really weird.
Wait, oh, I just thought of something.
One other thing, and then it went out my brain
the other way.
Talking about recalls, talking about bullshits.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Do you see this funny definition
of each Porsche video going around?
Oh, I did see that.
That was pretty funny.
The definition of each 911.
Yeah, very concise and funny.
That was very good.
Yeah, shout out.
Redline Raphael did a great job.
I never heard back from the Angelus Death Highway guy.
I don't know if we talked about it on the show,
but I told him that I would consider
paying for humans to animate his next thing.
Oh, I mean, to do it of the level he did,
it would cost a lot of money.
Well, I don't know what it would cost.
I mean, I have no idea.
I mean, it doesn't necessarily have to be great.
I mean, it's not like the animation was
that great on the AI one, but I don't know.
I said, I emailed him, or I forget who he emailed.
He emailed me and whatever.
And I said, you know, your writing is really funny.
It sucks.
I'm against this fucking AI slop art.
And he was like, yeah, I mean, I get it,
but sort of what you're going to do.
And I was like, well, what am I going to do?
I was like, I don't know.
Maybe I'll fund some fucking human-made art.
So I said, find out what it costs
to get a 60-second thing made, you know?
And if it's like reasonable, I'll just pay for it.
He could do, because the writing
is always the most important thing, right?
Because if the writing was bad,
then it doesn't matter how cool it looks.
And also, if it's simple,
there's plenty of cartoons that had crap animation.
We met a guy at Mission Man's Source Party
who's like a voiceover artist
that's funding his own cartoon on YouTube.
But you could do the same Angel's Death Highway jokes
with like simple line art comic animation
and it would be just as funny.
That's what I'm saying.
It might be crazy expensive.
It might be not that expensive.
I don't know.
My guess is shitty animation is like 2,500 a minute.
Oh, I have no idea.
And like good animation is like 50 grand a minute.
Yeah.
I'm not saying I'm necessarily willing to spend
either of those amounts of money.
I'm just saying that like I don't know
and that's my idiot's fucking guess.
I got it.
I was working on a show concept a couple years ago
and the quote for an animated trailer for it
blew my mind.
So what are you talking about?
Trailer is 90 seconds?
They showed me a trailer for a different show
that was about a minute, two minutes long.
And it was black and white.
And they said that that had cost $50,000.
And I was like, how?
And it's just I don't know the industry.
So if people are listening, things have changed
where I was smoke was being blown up my ass
or something totally fair.
And I'm sure if you get animators in a different country
it's cheaper.
If you get them here, it's more expensive.
But yeah, I was really shocked by that number.
It'd be great like, well, no,
that would go back to AI.
I was gonna say if you could...
I was about to be like, I just invented AI.
You just did the Silicon Valley thing.
If only you could type a prompt
and get a line art of a comic.
I was like, no, that's what it is.
Yeah, that's what it is.
Yeah, you need to draw it and make it move.
Well, what you need is for people who make art
to be able to have homes.
Totally, I'm on board with that.
Yeah.
So if that's a thing that I can meaningfully
contribute to, cool.
That would be cool.
That would be cool.
You could produce a Instagram cartoon
written by Angela's Death Highway.
Yeah.
It'd be funny.
In between, right after we sell our Netflix game show
that me and Zach and the guys from the dollop
got really drunk at my house and I made Benny Hanna
and we came up with a game show
that's actually kind of funny.
I would say we hung out.
Two of the group got very drunk.
Which two?
Me and Gareth.
You and Gareth.
Gareth and Dave was also pretty drunk.
He was by the end, yeah.
We had an amazing time.
They were super fun.
Me and Gareth were really drunk.
It was midnight and you were still doing,
you were opening new sake bottles
and I was like, wow, I can't do that anymore.
I just don't have it.
Gareth got to my house on foot,
which is fucking weird.
Like is really, that's strange to begin with.
I happen to be outside,
like shuffling a car into the driveway
and I see a shadowy figure arriving to my house
and carrying like bags.
It almost looks like a homeless person.
Very much so.
He had a backpack on that was stuffed to the gills
and he had like a Trader Joe's canvas bag
stuffed to the gills,
but that was stuffed with seven bottles of sake.
So if you, and holding a phone
with a charging cable hanging from it
because he was watching the Packers game,
but if you saw him walk past your house,
like one of your neighbors,
you would 100% think that that is someone
who's looking for a place to sleep
and get hammered for the night.
Yes, 100% and he walked basically a mile.
From the grocery store to my house
with the, do this tote bag of Trader Joe's
with seven bottles of sake and it was so heavy.
This must have, this bag must have weighed 25 pounds.
And he was draped over his like forearm
and it was dug so deep in his forearm.
It was fucking crazy.
I was like, you're out of your mind, dude.
It has a handle,
but that hand was being used for the Packers game.
Yeah, so he was, I mean, he came to party.
He came to play and we did not disappoint.
Benny Haun at home with all the sake
and then we came up with a game show
and some other pretty funny ideas.
And it was a good game show.
Like, and you guys were wasted.
I'd had like a few sake
and Sarah, my wife was there
and she was basically sober.
And like you were, we heard you laughing
over at one end of the table
and then you just pitched for the show with the title
and she was like that, oh yeah.
She was waiting for it to be like this stupid drunk idea
and she's like, no, that makes a lot of sense.
It's not bad.
No, it's not bad at all.
You know, like, what we were doing at dinner
was like not all that much different
from an actual Hollywood writer's room.
For sure.
I mean, that's basically what that is.
That was a good time.
So maybe we'll have a game show out of it.
I don't know, that would be awesome.
Or we might go tour with the dollop
in foreign countries, which would be,
they probably forgot about, but I would.
We're not forgetting about it.
I'm not forgetting.
Yeah, that would be so rad.
Fucking TSTX dollop Reykjavik, let's go.
Yeah, if you listen to both shows,
tell them that you want that to happen.
Yeah.
Okay, the people, let's go to the people.
And the people are very important to us.
We love you over at patreon.com
slash the Smogntire podcast.
Y'all is at the best.
He keeps the ship afloat.
I think we...
You can ask questions for the live show
and then listen to them during the live show.
You can get the show the day it's recorded
instead of waiting to Tuesdays and Thursdays.
You can get extra show every month.
You can get ad free show.
Your time is valuable.
In fact, there's a literal price you can put on it.
And I believe it's $8 a month.
Yep.
And yeah, for $8 a month, you can save minutes.
We should...
You can save TST.
Well, you can, but like at $8 a month,
we should see how many minutes of ads.
It's nine minutes a show, right?
Of ad reads, probably.
Yeah, nine minutes a show.
So $18, so $36.
So yeah, if you make more than $16 an hour,
this is actually profitable.
That's a great point.
That is like, this is how rich people think.
If you make more than $16 an hour
than getting to that level of Patreon
and not having to have those ads,
that is a profitable enterprise, my friends.
So let's see what those folks have to say.
Plus, if you come up with funny usernames,
I'll read them.
Jin and Taconic State Parkway says, well,
for Zach, thoughts on performance variants
of the Jeep Grand Cherokee,
the original SRT-8 all the way through the Trackhawk.
I'm considering a regular SRT
as my next do everything car.
That's the 6-4 Hemi car.
I mean, they're fun, but I don't,
that's not what I want from an SUV.
I mean, we drove that one years ago on that rally
and I remember we took it to the track in Colorado
and we were chasing CT-S's and stuff.
Like it was pretty quick.
And it's a fun amusement park ride,
but you just lose so much in miles per gallon.
The sporty suspension doesn't do anything for me.
If I'm buying an SUV, I want it to be a do everything
in terms of off-road, comfortable, quiet,
reasonably efficient.
So I just don't think it makes much sense.
They don't do anything for me.
I mean, it was a fun press car
and then I forgot about it immediately.
Also some of the worst fuel economy imaginable.
14.
14 is a non-track-hawk.
If you're talking about a track-hawk,
it's single digits all fucking day.
I don't know whether I'm the Boxster or the Jag.
They say the first generation businessman
builds the business, the second sustains it
and the third blunders it away.
Is there a parallel in this generational trend
and why is it the Mitsubishi Eclipse?
I mean, that's kind of funny,
but like, sure.
Focus groups, efficiency regulations and things like that.
It's the crossover-ification of everything, I mean,
but if you pick a beloved model of really any car,
like let's, and you go a couple of generations
down the road, it's usually kind of watered down, right?
Isn't that why people like the originals of stuff?
I mean, I guess it's like it's like it's the original
coontosh, narrow body, periscopo, right?
And then you got the wings, like mine.
And then you got the anniversary.
You know, same kind of deal.
I think you can find that.
I think there's good payloads there for sure.
How about Mustangs, right?
65, 65, 66, pretty fucking good.
Yeah.
77 to 69, oh yeah, that's the shit.
73 to 75, the long schnoz.
Right.
And it holds up pretty good.
Well, then you came into like oil crisis stuff,
so that's outside factors.
But I think in the company, the Mitsubishi example's tough
because the Eclipse is not a core thing
to that company's business.
Like the 911 is Porsche, right?
So of course the sports car is gonna be kept
very consistent for the most part
and be a high quality thing.
But the Eclipse, I mean Mitsubishi,
like they make fucking airplanes and cranes
and commuter cars and stuff
and they made a sporty car.
But I don't think it was one of the pinnacles
or sorry, one of the pillars of the Mitsubishi brand.
And so they were able to, they messed it up.
They didn't put as much care into it, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
Under the cuff says, do you feel the lore
of the NSX has been justified?
Yeah.
I think the NSX delivers on all the things
it's supposed to deliver on.
But it's a 30 year old car at this point.
So more than that, 35 year old car.
Sure.
So compared to other 35 year old cars, it's awesome.
Compared to 20, 25 cars, maybe not so much.
But it's a classic.
So in context, they're fabulous.
Of course.
KEI, JETRONIC.
That one's tough because when I read it out loud,
it just sounds like the regular thing.
But when it's written, it sounds very funny.
Everybody wants a slick top, doesn't specify the model,
because it saves weight on the top of the vehicle.
But what is more slick top than a convertible?
Well, that's not how that works.
I don't understand why convertibles
don't get more love,
especially as it relates to performance.
All of the 80s, 90s cars people like to drive
as a slick top were offered in manual convertible tops.
So they were, I'm not even gonna read that last bit
out loud because it's factually inaccurate.
Convertibles are not often lighter.
The center of gravity might be lower
because the top is cloth and with thin bits of metal,
I guess, in those older cars.
There's often significant bracing
that goes into the doors and all that stuff.
And so in almost any example you could find,
the convertible variant of a car is gonna be heavier.
Let's pick one.
Let's just pick one.
They say 80s, 90s people, pick a car, Zach.
You wanna go Mustang?
Yeah, sure.
SN95 Mustang GT, curb weight, coupe and convertible.
I bet you got about 300 pounds,
200, 300 pounds heavier for the convertible.
Center of mass being lower, that's true,
but I think the extra mass does worse
for the performance than the mass being lower,
not to mention structural rigidity.
Until you get to really high-end cars
like carbon tub cars and stuff like that,
the coupe is a more rigid structure.
Okay, Zach's got some numbers.
So this is from...
This is a 1995 Mustang specs.
It's from, I don't know, some...
LMR.
LMR restoration.
These are pretty much known weights.
I'm not, okay, here we go.
V8 coupe, 32.76,
V8 convertible, 34.52.
Yeah, so it's an extra 175, is that right?
175 pounds?
Yeah.
It's a little less difference than I thought, actually.
That's surprising.
How about in the V6?
The V6 coupe is 30.65.
Yeah, it's about the same.
Same weight chains for the V6 and V8.
Yeah, so...
Yeah, so in that car, it's 175 pounds heavier.
And I can tell you for fucking certain
that a GT convertible Mustang of that era
is not as rigid as a GT coupe.
So that's what...
Now, I don't wanna shit on convertibles
because there's a lot of value in convertibles,
specifically because a lot of enthusiasts don't want them.
Convertible structures are a little flimsier
than coupe structures.
And the way that manifests itself is you can feel
a little bit of a little chassis jiggle sometimes
over like railroad ties or things like that.
Basically twisting force.
Yeah.
Because there's nothing on top binding the ends together.
It's all bound down at the lower part.
Right.
And so carbon tub cars solve that problem.
The coupe and the convertible have the same rigidity.
So that's at the very high end.
And then at the medium high end,
convertible 911s like modern ones like 991 and up,
those feel tight.
The two plus two convertibles
are the ones that rarely feel.
When you got a back seat, bigger car,
like even at the high end,
I mean, even if you get like a Bentley GT convertible,
you can feel a little jiggle sometimes.
Just the amount of space that's open.
You know, there's just a lot of room for it to twist.
But like having said that,
like if there's a difference in cost
and usually the enthusiasts keep the coupes higher.
So if you wanted to get into a car,
a convertible is a good way to do it
at a lower price point, particularly 911.
911 convertibles are like fun as hell
and not a lot of people love them.
Can you zoom in on this one?
Oh yeah.
Okay, Jerry was a race car buyer.
Pretty good.
That's a good name.
Getting ready to get rid of my F80 M3.
I have a single mass flywheel and twin disc clutch
as well as some carbon chips.
Are those like the?
I think it's a damage to the roof
because he says later he can get it repaired.
Okay, chips in the carbon.
Is it worth my time to swap back to the stock clutch
and get the carbon roof repaired to bring in more money?
I'm worried the clutch feel and flywheel chatter
will turn away some buyers.
The OEM clutch setup is about 3K.
I would DIY the install.
Carbon roof repaired is about 1500.
Oof.
Okay.
That's tough.
So the question is,
I, so 3K, so this is just a math problem.
You know, I think your car will be more popular
with a stock clutch.
Yes.
Especially if it's a brand new one.
Yeah.
I mean, if it's like literally a brand new stock clutch,
like that's nice, that's good.
Unless it's like 800 horsepower
and we'll blow the stock clutch
in the first third gear pole.
But if you're selling one that's 800 horsepower,
the buyers know it's modified anyway,
so then you wouldn't have to change the clutch.
Sure.
Now the question is, I don't know
if it will raise the value by 3K.
Like,
I probably would not do the roof.
I'd probably leave the roof.
Assuming the wear and tear on the roof
is commensurate with the rest of the car.
If the rest of the car is like,
is a really nice example that's gonna bring good money,
then I would do the clutch.
If it's like kind of a, not a beater,
but like if it's high miles and track time
and you're like the third owner or whatever,
maybe not.
I agree and I think you'll probably have more trouble
selling it in the normal avenues.
Like, you're not gonna get as many hits on,
I don't know, like we'll bring each other maybe,
but just putting it on a CarMax,
not CarMax, Facebook Marketplace.
I think you're gonna have to go to the people
and you're gonna have to like put the car on forums
where people track their cars
and they know what the single mask flywheel's for.
You have to go to the buyers that are informed on this
and might want to do that to their own car
or are planning to drive it the way you drove it
and then they might see it as a little bit more of a boon
than someone who wants a stock car
and they're like, well now I gotta take this shit off
or I don't like the feels
or you gotta convince them that it's good.
You don't want to do that.
Yeah.
Jeremiah Dicklesworth, the third.
Am I crazy to want to trade in my 991 Turbo S
for a Lancia Delta Integrale Evo?
I have 10 cars.
So this would not be a daily driver,
but more of a North Carolina, Tennessee mountain toy.
Tail the dragon car.
It's pretty cool.
Yeah, Turbo S is not helping you on tail the dragon.
That's a lot of horsepower, a lot of weight
and those are some tight and technical canyons.
God, are they good fucking roads though?
So if you've never driven a Delta,
they're really cool, but they're different.
They have very like unique characteristics.
They feel like the sort of grandfather of a Golf R
and a Focus RS and stuff like that,
but they have a weird kind of driving position
because it's a fucking Italian car from the 80s.
They're kind of tricky to maintain.
I don't know where you would take one in your area.
And if you can't fix it yourself,
you might have an easier time servicing your Porsche
or any Porsche than one of these things.
And it's an old school transverse
Haldex type all wheel drive system.
And so it's mostly front wheel drive,
but sometimes a little bit goes to the back
and or some goes to the back.
It's a great attitude.
It's a great look.
They're fucking cool, but it's a 30 year old hatchback.
And so it's gonna feel kind of slow
and kind of weird and, you know, you got 10 cars.
So like that's okay, but and I could, you know,
we've spent enough time in Turbo S's to know that you can,
they could become normal cars like pretty quickly.
Very true.
It's not that they're not awesome and special,
but like, if you got one of those
and you drive it for a couple of months,
like it becomes just your car.
Yeah, especially on the roads there that are so tight,
like you're not, you should get a 911 T or something
and with a shorter rear gearing
or you can't only do that,
but if you want something more exciting, I get it.
They just, the dots might be tough.
That's a passion car.
If you look at it and you think it looks so amazing,
you're not gonna hate it.
Like that's, I think what that's really what they want.
Like if you see a photo of one
or you've seen a saddened one and you go,
that looks, that looks like what I fucking need,
you probably won't hate it.
They're quick, they're fun to drive,
they make weird noises.
They just can be a little bit annoying to deal with.
Ron Zara's daily is his.
I mean, I saw him at Willow and I was like,
oh, is that thing blowing up again?
He goes like, he goes, it did have a problem
when I first bought it.
I fixed it.
I don't know if you need advice,
damn him, he'll know who to go to.
But he's like, after that, I take it to the store,
I take it to stuff, like he drives it a lot.
So you gotta get it sorted out,
which could be tricky like you said in that location.
But once you do, it might be okay.
Yeah.
I mean, alternatively, you know,
if you wanted to get weird,
you could like call up HPA
and get like a nutty, you know, Volkswagen.
Yeah.
For a lot less than a turbo S,
you can have him put you a fucking monster engine
in a Golf R and have the craziest little nutty sleeper
down there.
That's kind of the modern Delta Integraale.
Yeah.
That could be a real good time.
Yeah.
Or you know what?
Even like, I mean, this is a person
who's passionate about this car.
So there's no practical thing,
but like it also makes me wanna have
like a really sick Honda.
Yeah.
Like a sick hatch with all the suspension
and the right seats and the perfect shifter.
Like, you know, yeah.
Flying monkey, can't fucking figure out a weekend car
all over the place, can't decide on anything.
I'm looking at 996s and 7s,
but the looks and sounds of a Shelby 350
and a Mach 1, 50 or 60 grand.
Southern New England, no canyons, twisty back roads.
Would I be nuts to consider a Mustang
over a Porsche for back road driving?
Must have a back seat for the little one and three pedals.
I mean, are you nuts to consider a Mustang or a Porsche?
No, you're not nuts.
Shelby 350 is rad.
Yeah.
And a Mustang Mach 1 is rad.
And the back seat is a little bigger than a Porsche.
And very slightly bigger than like,
I was gonna say you could get in a mirror.
Yeah.
But I think the back seat of the Mustang is bigger.
Yeah.
I mean, are you nuts?
No, not at all.
The only difference I'd say is the Mustangs
will feel like much bigger cars.
They're fucking big.
And not all the roads in New England are big.
I mean, a Mustang's not too big
for New England roads by any means.
The view out the front also makes them feel
even bigger versus a Porsche.
So, I mean, fortunately, you could try one of these
and then the other.
You might be able to fucking turro a 997, possibly.
You might be able to try some of these on turro, possibly.
Is there a Ford?
No one's got any, they're running dark horses
and all the Ford experience stuff now.
Oh, yeah, Skip Barber's using the old Mustang.
They're using the old ones, yeah.
Dude, I think, I don't think you would be nuts
for back road driving.
I think the Mustangs will probably be cheaper to run,
cheaper to service.
996's are 25 years old.
Now 997's are 20 years old.
They're gonna have needs.
Even if they're 50 grand, they're gonna have needs.
My physical therapist who I'm going to see
right after the show, he had a little Indie shop up here
working on his C4S.
He bought it for like 42 grand.
He put another seven, eight into it.
It just wasn't ever quite right.
I had him take it to BBI, another 10.
But now it's right.
Now the car's sorted, but like turns out
that first shop didn't know so much.
And so now he's sorted, now he's good to go,
but like, if you buy a Mustang Mach 1,
that should be a turn-key experience.
That's like a three-year-old Ford, you know?
Like that shouldn't be, that's a different thing.
So, and budget and long-term maintenance budget,
also not the same thing.
Belgian Spa Day bought an Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint for 25K.
I think it would be a pretty good buy.
Is there another car for 25K that would be
a better fun daily?
Depends what you define as fun daily.
I mean, if you live in the city,
I might rather have a GTI, smaller, hatchbacks are good.
But I feel like a lot of people
who bought 2020 and up, Giulias liked them.
25 grand for a good-looking sedan,
assuming it's nice, that sounds like a pretty good deal.
I wish I could say I was looking
at $25,000 daily drivers for comparison,
but I genuinely don't know what that gets you
in the current market.
Maybe I shouldn't have read that question,
because I didn't have a good answer.
I should try that first.
Listen and sometimes watch.
Now that manual swapped C63s are a thing,
assuming it's done well,
would that significantly improve how much fun it is?
Yes, we have said this over and over about,
not over and over, a few times,
about all early 2000s Mercedes
would be improved with manual gearbox,
assuming it's done properly.
Okay.
You probably have.
Okay, I have to go soon.
Yeah, you gotta go soon.
Three days of graceful racing.
I'm doing an engine swap on an ND Miata.
Tremac is doing a release of the Transaxle
from the GT500, which we talked about.
I plan on making 500-wheel horsepower in this Miata.
Would you keep it manual,
or would you swap over to the DCT?
Money, no object, wiring, no problems.
Okay, if you were building a 500-wheel horsepower Miata,
would you want a manual or a DCT?
I would want a manual.
I wouldn't unless I'm racing it.
Yeah.
You know, if I'm doing,
yeah, even then, manual,
because then you've basically made
a tiny Japanese Cobra.
Yeah.
And it's gonna be fun.
I'd want the manual.
I think it would be cool.
I've seen that,
I don't know if Tremac is the DC,
because that's a Transaxle, not a transmission.
So like, if you're doing an engine swap,
Miata uses a traditional transmission configuration,
not a Transaxle.
So like, wouldn't you use the BMW transmission DCT?
That's probably more places.
Yeah, that's a good point.
I'm seeing that being used,
I saw some guy did a Mark III Supra with a BMW DCT.
Whoa.
That's pretty slick.
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm into that.
I don't want it.
I don't want it for myself like, cool, you know.
So, but this, I don't think,
I mean, the question of would you want a DCT is legit,
but I don't think that's the right gearbox for that.
Probably not.
I think, cause you could probably put a Tremac in the Mazda,
but it's like the Tremac 6060, not this Tremac.
This is good to be the last one.
Rage against the touch screens.
When you're in a social setting,
not car related and you don't know many people,
how do you recommend approaching a stranger
if you spot them wearing a high-end watch?
For example, hey man, nice Patek might be too forward
or maybe the person doesn't want,
oh, can you scroll down a little bit?
Maybe the person doesn't want attention
to what's on their wrist.
Okay, advice on watch enthusiast engagement
without making it awkward in a group.
This is an easy no-brainer.
Every single person wearing an expensive watch
wants you to notice it.
Every single one.
Otherwise they wouldn't fucking do that.
There's no difference on your wrist
between a $1,000 watch and a $200,000 watch most of the time.
I'm not, they fit different and blah, blah, blah, blah,
but like, let's get fucking real.
They all want you to notice.
So maybe they don't, okay, it doesn't mean you scream,
hey man, nice Patek, I could cross the room.
But you go, walk up to him and you go,
hey, hey bro, you fucking do the nudge.
Like, yo man, I see that.
You point at the wrist, I see that, I know what that is.
You know, you don't even, if you do notice,
oh, is that a fucking, is that a 1542 B?
There's a, you know, and if it's like,
if it's not some like super baller watch,
if it's a Speedmaster or, oh man, speedy, blah, blah,
like, they all want you to say something.
They all want you to notice, trust me.
If it's the only people who might side eye you
is if they're literally wearing like a Submariner,
because that's just the thing they thought to buy
and they're not real enthusiasts.
Like that can, hey man, and you're like,
they're like, whatever, man, I just like got it.
Like that can happen.
But if they're wearing an AP
or they're wearing some like real shit
or a Grand Seiko, you see someone in a Grand Seiko,
go talk to them.
They'll talk your fucking ear off about that motherfucker.
You know, like, they want you to see.
Like, just like, don't like,
hey, is that really 300 grand?
Like, hey, you know.
We want to talk to them, not like, identify them.
I think there's a difference.
Yeah, you want to identify yourself
as an enthusiast of this hobby.
Hey man, is that super cool?
Is that what I think it is?
I've never seen one of those in person.
You know, I saw that on Hodynki,
but I've never actually seen one.
Wow, look at that, oh cool.
Oh, I've just got to find whatever here.
And like, you're in the club.
It's all good, yeah.
Thanks everybody.
We're gonna end this one
because I'm gonna go see my broke physical therapist.
You know, it's funny you tell me this
because I've been there a couple months
and I got a text from them a week ago
that was like, hey man, we'd love to get you in
for some sessions.
Yeah, he had, I mean, between this
and he bought an absolutely tragic Land Rover Discovery.
He wanted to be Disco Guy.
Oh yeah.
And he is not Disco Guy.
Disco Guy is like, you're like a fucking dirt,
Disco's are for dirt bags, seriously.
You have, cause you have.
The world has a Disco.
Huh?
The world has a Disco.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Does it run?
Like, yeah.
Yeah, it does serve.
They're for dirt bags.
And like, this is, he doesn't wrench on himself.
You know what I mean?
He's like, he doesn't know.
It always feels broken.
He couldn't, yeah.
Okay, yeah.
He got rid of it.
He got a fucking 2023 Tacoma.
There you go.
That's what he wants.
That's what he wants.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Thank you to our patrons
for asking such good questions.
We love you.
Thank you to everyone else for listening.
We appreciate you just as much,
but not really as much.
And yeah, and we'll see you guys next week.
Bye.
About this episode
Exploring the intersection of car enthusiasm and capitalism, the hosts discuss the psychological barriers that prevent wealthy collectors from using their prized vehicles. A notable conversation revolves around the NSX and its value in the collector's market, leading to a debate on whether to drive or preserve such cars. Zach shares his experience with a slant-nose 911, highlighting its unique appeal and the nostalgia it evokes. The episode also touches on various listener questions about performance cars, recalls, and the practicality of different models.
930 turbo engine
air-cooled cars
Danny McLaughlin
gearbox
Gemballa
GT cars
horsepower
manual transmission
mid-engine
mileage
Acura NSX
Alfa Romeo Giulia
BMW M3
Buick GNX
Chevrolet Corvette
Ferrari 360
Ferrari F40
Ferrari Testarossa
Ford Focus
Ford Mustang
Jeep Cherokee
Lancia Delta
Land Rover Discovery
Lucid Gravity
Mazda MX-5 / Miata
Mitsubishi Eclipse
Pontiac GTO
Porsche 911
Porsche 918 Spyder
Porsche 935
Porsche 959
Porsche Boxster
Porsche Cayman
Porsche Panamera
Shelby Cobra
Shelby GT500
Toyota RAV4
Toyota Supra
Toyota Tundra
Volkswagen Beetle
Volkswagen Karmann Ghia
Original notes
During an interview with a car collector, Matt Farah asked them "Why don't you off-road your seven-figure rally car?" It led us to an interesting discussion. Plus, the NSX is going up for sale, and Zack Klapman talks about his week driving a 1974 Porsche turbo converted into a slant-nose .
- Patreon questions include:
- Do we like performance SUVs?
- Why did the Eclipse fail?
- Is the NSX lore justified?
- Are convertibles lighter than hardtops?
- How to sell your lightly-modified car
- Crazy trade: 991 Turbo for Lancia Delta Integrale Evo?
- 997 vs Mach 1 vs GT350
- Would a manual swap improve the C63?
- Will the Tremec DCT fit in my Miata?
- How to approach someone bc of their cool watch
- And more!
Recorded November 14, 2025
Show Notes:
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The Smoking Tire
Zack Klapman, Matt Farah
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86:54