Why boring cars can be as great to own as special ones #287
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Car
Audi A6
The Audi A6 is a luxury car that's comfortable and has a lot of technology. It's a good choice for people who want a nice car that drives well.
Concept
Brazilian Grand Prix
The Brazilian Grand Prix is a big car race that happens in Brazil. It's part of a series called Formula 1, which features fast cars and skilled drivers.
Concept
Formula 1
Formula 1, or F1, is a popular type of car racing where specially designed cars compete in races around the world. It's known for its fast cars and exciting races.
Term
McLaren
McLaren is a company that makes fast sports cars and is also famous for its racing team in Formula 1. They are known for building some of the fastest cars in the world.
Car
Eagle E-Type
The Eagle E-Type is a famous sports car from the 1960s, known for its stylish looks and fast performance. Many car enthusiasts admire it for its design and history.
Company
Eagle
Eagle is a company that specializes in restoring classic cars, especially the Jaguar E-Type. They make these old cars even better by updating them with modern technology while keeping their classic look.
Concept
restomod
Restomod means taking an old car and fixing it up with new parts and technology. This way, you get to enjoy the classic look but with better performance and comfort.
Part
brakes
Brakes are the parts of a car that help it slow down or stop. They work by pressing against the wheels to create friction, which slows the car down.
Part
5-speed gearbox
A 5-speed gearbox is a type of transmission that lets you choose from five different speeds while driving. This helps the car go faster or save fuel depending on how you drive.
Term
aluminium body
An aluminium body means the car is made mostly from a lightweight metal called aluminium. This helps the car be faster and easier to handle because it's not as heavy as cars made from steel.
Term
alloy block
An alloy block is a part of the engine made from a mix of metals, making it lighter and helping the engine work better. It's often found in sports and racing cars.
Car
Ferrari 250
The Ferrari 250 GTO is a famous race car from the 1960s. It's known for being very beautiful and is one of the most valuable cars ever made, with only a few of them existing today.
Car
Eagle Low Drag GT
The Eagle Low Drag GT is a car that looks like classic sports cars from the past but is built with modern technology. It's designed to be lightweight and fast, similar to the original Jaguar E-type.
Term
C-Type
The C-Type is an older racing car from Jaguar that was built for speed and won famous races. It's known for its unique design and performance.
Car
Pontiac Gtos
The GTO is a classic car from Pontiac that was really popular in the 1960s because it was fast and powerful. People talk about it because it helped start the trend of muscle cars in America.
Car
Nissan GT-R
The Nissan GT-R is a fast sports car that many people admire for its speed and technology. It's designed for racing and has a strong following among car enthusiasts.
Part
magnesium sump
A magnesium sump is a part of the engine that holds oil and is made from a light metal, making the car lighter.
Part
gearbox casing
The gearbox casing is the outer part of the gearbox that keeps all the important pieces inside safe.
Part
titanium gear lever
A titanium gear lever is the part you use to change gears in a car, made from a strong and light metal.
Part
titanium conrods
Titanium conrods are parts in an engine that help connect different pieces together. They are made of titanium, which is lighter than other metals, making the engine perform better by being less heavy.
Car
Lotus Elise
The Lotus Elise is a small sports car that is very light and designed for quick handling. It doesn't have a lot of extra weight, which helps it go faster and handle better on the road.
Term
1.8 liter engine
A 1.8 liter engine is a way to describe how big the engine is, based on the total space inside its cylinders. Bigger engines usually make more power.
Term
4.7 L engine
A 4.7 L engine is another way to describe the size of an engine, showing how much space is inside its cylinders. Generally, bigger engines can produce more power.
Term
curb weight
Curb weight is how much a car weighs when it's fully fueled and ready to drive, but without any people or stuff inside. It's useful for comparing how heavy different cars are.
Term
dry weight
Dry weight is how much a car weighs without any fluids like gas or oil. It's often used to show how light a car is, which can help it go faster.
Term
horsepower
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and more powerful a car can be.
Car
BMW F80
The BMW M3 is a fast and sporty car that comes from a regular family car called the 3 Series. People talk about it because it's really fun to drive and has a reputation for being one of the best in its class.
Car
Chevrolet Monte Carlo
The Monte Carlo is a stylish car from Chevrolet that was made for people who want a comfortable ride with a bit of sportiness. It's talked about because it has a classic look and was popular for many years.
Car
Audi A6 Avant
The Audi A6 Avant Ron Quattro Edition is a special version of the A6 Avant, which is a fancy wagon. It has all-wheel drive, meaning all four wheels get power for better handling, especially in bad weather.
Car
Audi Quattro
Car
Bmw 3
The BMW 3 Series is a comfortable and stylish car that many people use for everyday driving. It's known for being reliable and fun to drive, making it a popular choice for families.
Car
Land Rover Range Rover
The Range Rover Autobiography is a very luxurious version of the Range Rover, which is a big, fancy SUV. It's known for being comfortable and capable of driving off-road.
Car
Golf
The Golf is a small car from Volkswagen that is very practical and good on gas. It has a surprisingly roomy interior for a car of its size, which makes it great for families.
Car
Citroën DS
The Citroën DS is a classic car made by the French company Citroën from the 1950s to the 1970s. It was famous for its unique shape and innovative features that were ahead of its time.
Car
Citroen Ds
The DS 3 is a small car from Citroen known for its cool and different look. It's popular because it's comfortable to drive and has some neat features.
Car
Mercedes-Benz Sclass
The S-Class is a super fancy car made by Mercedes-Benz, known for being really comfortable and packed with the latest technology. People talk about it because it's often seen as one of the best luxury cars in the world.
LIVE
Welcome back to the Intercooler podcast
everybody. The car podcast powered by
car finance specialist JBR Capital. This
is episode 287 with Dan Proser and
Andrew Frankle. Uh Andrew, lots and lots
that we want to talk about.
>> Goody. That's how we like them.
>> Not least because last week, wasn't it?
We spent a very very very happy day um
on one of our usual stomping grounds in
Wales in a couple of gorgeous cars.
Well, we'll come to those though.
>> Yeah, we were so lucky that day.
It was unbelievable
>> for all sorts of reasons.
>> Yeah. Um there's I want to talk a little
bit about Jensen Button who's hanging up
his race boots.
>> Yeah.
>> Um at least as a sort of full-time
professional.
>> Yeah.
>> This weekend.
>> Wow.
>> Um there's my car, my Audi A6, my
electric Audi A6 longterm. I just want
to discuss briefly. Um but let's start
with this weekend's fourthcoming
Brazilian Grand Prix.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Um so it's there's four to go, including
Brazil. Yeah,
>> this is a sprint weekend.
>> Mhm.
>> Um,
where do we stand? So, Lando Norris has
just taken
the lead in the driver.
>> He's recovered a 34 point deficit.
>> Yeah,
>> I think I think the real to me the
really I mean there's there's obviously
all this speculation about whether um
Max will do it,
>> which he clearly still can. I think
George can technically do it, although I
don't think anybody thinks he will. Um
but to me the I I think the real
question is what has happened to Oscar?
What where has his form gone?
>> Yeah.
>> And is it does it not say something
about those cars um that if one little
thing gets changed then they are so on a
knife edge and if it gets changed in a
way that happens to suit one driver that
doesn't suit the other then the other
driver doesn't sort of fall you know a
few hundreds behind. He he becomes
uncompetitive.
>> It's unbelievable.
>> It is real. I I don't know what it is.
Of course, there are all the largely
Australian conspiracy theorists
[laughter]
who think that it's all a stitch up and
this is McLaren wanting a British driver
to
>> Yeah.
>> to take the title. I I don't believe
that for a moment. I I genuinely don't
believe that. Um
>> but um you know, it wouldn't be the
first time. And in fact, we're going to
talk about this on a podcast we're going
to do next week, um, which is going to
be, um, an historical look back at
Formula 1 title fights. Uh, it wouldn't
be the first time that, uh, people have
cried foul in the team.
>> Yeah.
>> About, you know, those on high wanting
one driver to win over another. I I
repeat, I don't believe it. But, I mean,
what do you think
>> about Oscar? About what's gone on there?
>> Did you hear this? Have you heard the
story about him having a cracked
chassis? Yeah. I I don't know if there's
anything in any substance in that at
all. And the teams check these things
very very carefully.
>> Absolutely.
>> Of course they do.
>> Yeah.
>> Um so what's happened there? I think I
think you're right. I think the the cars
always evolve throughout the the year.
Upgrades are fitted
>> and those upgrades can make a subtle but
meaningful difference that means that it
just doesn't suit one driver anymore.
Um,
>> yeah. And it's particularly problematic
that it has happened at this point in
the season
>> because they're not upgrading anything
anymore.
>> No, that's it now.
>> Everybody is focused on next year. I
mean, the cars the car that that's I
think that's been out for the last few
races and certainly for the rest of the
season is the car.
>> You know, they're not going to be doing
an awful lot to but particularly from
McLaren's point of view, it is still
overwhelmingly likely that one of his
drivers will win the championship. The
constructors is already in the bag. Um,
Max doesn't have a wingman essentially,
>> no to help. So, you know, the odds are
so stacked and also I think of the
remaining as we record this four races,
at least two of them are regarded as
very McLaren tracks.
>> Yeah. Um, and I think, you know, Max
needs to basically outp point them on at
all four circuits. And given his
performance um at the last race where he
was nowhere near front running pace, um
I think it's hard to see.
>> I um yeah, I don't see it actually. I
you know, it's not down to him. Um but
the the gap is just too large. What he
needs is another significant
um chunk. He needs to bite another
significant chunk out of that lead by
one of the one or both of the McLaren's
biggest.
>> He needs Oscar and and Lando to drive
into each other.
>> He does like they did. Well, certainly
um Oscar had a shocker in Texas, didn't
he? Uh well, and the following race
wasn't great either. But, you know, he
needs Max needs that sort of thing where
the two McLarens don't score and he he
wins and takes a massive chunk out of
that title that that that lead that
championship lead. Yes.
>> But
>> cuz if he gets 25 25 points and they get
none
>> Yeah. then it's
>> then everything changes
>> and then it's it's it's wide open, isn't
it? Um, short of that happening,
>> I don't see it. I I am baffled by Oscar.
I think it is something to do with the
car has shifted. You know, people talk
about maybe the pressures getting to him
or um he's not driving the way that he
was. He says he's driving exactly the
way he was. And at the start of the
season, he was metronomic. He was just
winning races. and his and his
reputation is of the man who doesn't
crack under pressure, you know,
particularly when, you know, Max is
coming up behind.
>> Orlando and Lando has always struggled
in that environment.
>> And Oscar seemed to cope.
>> Uh he his reputation is that of an
iceman
>> um who doesn't feel the same emotions
and vulnerabilities the rest of us do.
So it shouldn't be a factor, but maybe
that's all a front. Maybe underneath it,
he's a he's a gibbering wreck. I doubt
it.
>> I doubt it as well. I I think I think
it's something in the car that shifted.
But I mean, Norris last time out was
>> magnificent.
>> Just magnificent. And it's what what I
hope now, right? And I I don't really
say this I don't think I'm saying this
as a Brit. I think I'm saying this as a
Formula 1 fan. I would like to see
Norris now deliver four more of those
weekends so that he wins it emphatically
and we can look at him come the end of
the season and go, he actually really
earned that and he's a deserving
champion. um because it has been pretty
inconsistent from him throughout this
season. He's been magnificent at times
and just almost nowhere at other times.
So, I hope he now takes this
championship by the scruff and makes it
his own and we can all be satisfied that
he's the champion.
>> How much importance do you ascribe to
momentum? If if if you do, he's had a
lot of it
>> and he's got a lot behind him at the
moment. Um, so it's interesting and I
think there are other people who go,
"No, that's just nonsense. You're only
ever as good as your last race and you
know, we all they all start from scratch
every time the cars go out."
>> But there must be some wind in his
>> confidence is a fac I mean because
>> probably more with him than most
>> and clearly the class the cars should be
the same. Clearly they're both men of
you know approximately equal talent.
>> So what is the deciding factor and if
you're feeling better about and we all
know, don't we? um what a bit of
confidence can do uh or if you lack
confidence what that can do too and if
Oscar for any reason thinks that his car
isn't as quick as Lando's
mistakes will happen he'll get cheesed
off confidence will go
>> the thing is right I I think momentum is
a thing and it's probably it's more
confidence than than momentum but this
weekend in Brazil I I saw one forecast
last week it looks like it's going to be
a wet one and then what does it take for
your your weekend and your perhaps even
your championship battle to come
crumbling down. Getting on the wrong bit
of curb at the wrong time, spinning off
into it. It is the margins, particularly
on a white race, are so so fine.
>> And this far into the season when the
fight is this close, you can't be too
strategic about it. You can't just say,
"Okay, well, I'll come I'll be happy
with third and you know, let's say this
Orlando, and I'll be happy to let Max
and Oscar disappear because I'll make it
back at the next ones because
statistically the ones after that uh are
I think they're all Middle East, aren't
they?" Um,
>> it's Vegas between Vegas. Okay. Well,
Vegas is not going to be wet, is it?
Very unlikely to be. And the other two
aren't aren't likely to be wet.
>> Um, but you can't afford to do that.
>> No. because
>> suddenly you're not a point ahead,
you're a double-digit number of points
behind.
>> So you can't do that.
>> No.
>> Um
so you've just got to
throw it and hope it'll stick.
>> There's no doubt that the pressure is
ramping up now, particularly on the
McLaren drivers. And I I don't think it
matters how cool and calm you are. It's
a Formula 1 World Championship. You're
first. It's going to get to you for
>> both of them. Yeah.
>> Whereas Max
done that.
>> He knows what that's like.
>> Yeah. The pressure is not on him at all.
He's not feeling pressure.
>> He has no pressure. No, there's no
expectation.
>> No.
>> Um, you know, if he does it, it'll be
one of the greatest turnarounds of
Formul history. If he doesn't, it's ex
it's what everybody expects anyway.
>> He still had a good season and everyone
knows that his car certainly for the
first twothirds of the season wasn't
competitive with the McLarens. Certainly
is now.
>> Um,
>> what do you just on the Red Bull and the
turnaround, how much of it do you I mean
it is interesting and I know it's not
directly tracking it. Um, but after all
the shenanigans with Haunter and the
team, you know, while that's all going
on, the team loses its form and can't
and struggles to find it again and then
Christian gets booted out the team and
pretty soon afterwards they rediscover
their mojo. Coincidence?
>> I just never know. I just I mean, a team
principal,
it's he's not an engineer. He's not
leading the engineering team. It's the
engineering team that's made the car
faster.
>> Yeah. But I mean I can remember sitting
down with Mark Weber uh at a festival of
speed a couple of years ago. No year
last year actually I think
>> because it was all going all the
Christian stuff was going on then.
>> Um and he said having the best drivers
having the best car having the best team
is not enough.
>> It's all got to function perfectly.
>> Yeah. Okay. And if any one of those
components, however good they might be
in theory, starts to function at 98%
rather than 102%.
>> That's a significant difference. And if
there are people who are distracted,
um, you know, the chain of command is
being interrupted because people can't
have meetings with the people they need
to have meetings with because they're
off sorting out stuff. It [snorts] can
make a difference. And then suddenly,
and we saw this at McLaren, I mean,
remember Zack Brown saying to us that
the team of people um where did they
come? There was some world championship
recently where they came like not last,
but they came I don't know, eighth in
the constructors or something.
>> Yeah. They were nowhere for a long time.
>> Yeah. And then Zach comes and he he said
to us, he changed three people.
>> Three out of a thousand.
>> Three out of a thousand. And then
suddenly they're winning everything.
>> It's the same people.
>> It is amazing actually. So the
leadership really does make a
difference. Does it make it does it turn
around within two or three months? Maybe
it does. I could do. I can do.
Apparently, it happens in the game they
call football.
>> I'm sure. Well, it does. Yeah, it does.
So, um I mean it it reflects very well
on Laurel Mechi as the new guy, doesn't
it?
>> Absolutely.
>> It really does.
>> Or perhaps just really badly on
Christian.
>> I know. Yeah. Um but
>> probably probably both.
>> What I will say though is that Red Bull
have continued developing their car.
They have continued bringing new parts.
There was a big floor upgrade for Monza,
wasn't there? And then another floor
upgrade, I think, more recently. So
that's that's certainly a factor.
>> So why are they doing that when even now
the chances of them actually getting a
title out of it are quite remote?
Whereas if they'd spent all that time
and energy and presumably money
developing next year's car when there's
a new rules regime um and the fortunes
of not just next season but probably
quite a few seasons after that kind of
depend on it.
>> It's interesting, isn't it?
>> It's so easy. It's so tempting. Either
either they've already decided that next
year's car is going to be a basket case
or they think it's going to be so
utterly brilliant they need to spend,
you know, that that resource on it.
>> Who knows?
>> It is very interesting. It is very I'd
love to understand the logic.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh so who's your money on now? 10 quid.
Who you putting 10 quid on to win the
championship?
>> Who do I think will win it or who do I
want to win it?
>> Who do you think will?
>> I think Oscar will win it.
>> Do you Do you think he's going to come
roaring back?
>> No. I think he's going to nip it.
>> Do you? Yeah, I think I what I would
like for all the reasons I've talked
about on this podcast before, I would
like Lando to be champion,
>> but I think if there's going to be any
blinking to be done, I can't see it
being Oscar. And I think that people
have set too much store by the run of
recent form um and that he will when
push comes to shove,
he'll find a way. I think I think Lando
is gonna rise to the occasion.
>> Oh, I do. So, I hope you're right.
>> I think he is. I think he is. Let's wait
and see. [clears throat]
>> Eagle E types.
>> So, we spent a day last week. It was
great, actually, wasn't it? We were
>> It was It It looked like it was going to
be awful.
>> We were driving to the shoot location in
Wales, one of our favorite roads in
Wales. It was raining so hard the
photographer messaged me from the road
saying, "Can I turn around, please?"
[laughter]
And then we get to the road only to
discover
>> Yeah.
>> it's shut. Larut Baret,
>> but
>> but we had a word.
>> Yeah.
>> And what we discovered was that the road
the the road was shut right at its other
end about 10 miles away.
>> Uh and the B said, "As long as you don't
go right to the other end, you just stay
on the road. Can't see it being a
problem." And so we had basically the
best road in South Wales to ourselves
for the day. And after about 10:00 a.m.,
the sun came out and the roads dried
quickly.
>> And later this week, you'll see the
results on the Intercooler website and
app.
>> So Andrew is going to write this one and
he's going to voice it. So if you're a
TI subscriber, you'll be able to read it
or listen to that story in a couple of
days. Um the the two cars were a couple
of Eagle E types. Um two very different
cars.
>> That's why we did it.
>> Yeah. Uh we wanted to I'm sure everybody
knows or have heard of Eagle Eypies. It
was um a company that Henry Pierman
founded I think in 1981
um to you know the word resto mod didn't
exist 44 years ago but that's what it
was. And you know they create these
incredible machines two of which we've
just driven but they also just nicely
upgrade. So, we have a a friend and
colleague who has an Eype which has had
a bit of suspension, the brakes sorted
out. I think it might have a 5-speed
gearbox in it. It's just been night
nicely and thoughtfully gone through and
updated.
>> But it's not a million quid special, is
it?
>> It's not a million quid special. And if
you look at it, you couldn't tell it
from a standard car.
>> No.
>> Um, the two that we had were million
quid specials. Um and and we got them
together because they represent the sort
of the ying and the yang of the eagle
proposition. So one the low drag coupe
uh is the grand tourer very longlegged
uh engine tuned primarily for torque
south of France over the Alps
>> just that sort of thing. Whereas the
other one, the lightweight GTR, is let's
see how light we can make an E type.
>> Let's see how mad an engine we can put
in an E type. Um, and let's see how much
fun we can have within
>> the bounds of what you want to use on a
public road. This is not a racing car.
>> No.
>> Um, and it's a it's it's one of those
things that Eagle do. It's a one-off
commission for an owner who incredibly
kindly not only allowed us to drive it,
was extremely enthusiastic about us
driving it. Uh, and you know, there may
well be, particularly after they read
what um people write about it, um, other
requests for similar sorts of things.
And, you know, I'm sure the Eagle will
do that, but at the moment, it's a one
of one. And it's it's it's a wonderful
car in its own right, but it's also a
study on just how far you can go without
spoiling the essential proposition and
making a completely impractical
undrivable car because it is neither of
those things.
>> And yeah, it was just I can remember
towards the end of the day you saying to
me, we're not going to drive better cars
than the seats this year.
>> No, no, we won't. That's it.
[clears throat] That's it. And
particularly with that road basically to
ourselves.
>> Yeah.
>> God, that's just days like that just
don't happen often. Um it was it was one
to remember. I can't wait to see the
photos and read the story. Um but I I
want to try and I'm sure you're right
about this, but I want to understand the
background of the E type, the low drag,
sorry, the low drag GT Eagle Eype. Um
because the Jaguar sort of built a few
of them in period. Is that right?
>> So Okay. Okay, so the EAC comes out in
1961. Um, and some inevitably people
wanted to go racing with it. Um, the car
wasn't very well suited to racing. Uh,
because you know the A, it was a road
car, b it had a steel body. Um, and all
sorts of things that you wouldn't do if
you're making a racing car, they did
with that car. And so they started to
make um for customers, you know, so they
made a series of was it 16 or 18
lightweight Eypes which were these
incredible cars and Jaguar did some
recreations of them recently. Well, that
recently about what was it? It was about
10 years ago now. Um but the lightweight
E type was a pure racing Eype.
>> Yeah, I drove one of the recreations.
Exactly.
>> Um so aluminium body, 5-speed gearbox,
um very light. um what they call a wide
angled engine um which is an engine they
actually developed for the DT type um
but a pure racing engine. I think some
of them had Lucas fuel injection, alloy
block uh all this sort of stuff uh which
you'd never have found on the road cars.
Um now actually to be honest in period
um because they never raced as a sort of
works team um they weren't as
competitive against things like well
particularly the Ferrari 250 GTO
>> um which was a what they mean that
wasn't a 250 GT whatever Ferrari might
have said at the time was not a modified
road car was a pure racing car um and I
don't think I don't think a lightweight
E type ever won a really significant
race but If you look at them now and
they are utterly gorgeous and they sound
utterly gorgeous and in addition to that
they made this thing called a low drag
coupe. I think they made it for a driver
called Dick Pro. Might be wrong about
that. Um which was exactly what it said.
One of the problems that the um road
Eype had and I I have some experience
with this because I know what it's like
um is that their their shape, however
beautiful is almost the perfect design
for generating rear end lift. Uh, and so
if you get a normal E type and with with
a hot engine in it and drive it in a
straight line as fast as it will go, it
can get quite it can get quite um
interesting.
And you know, a low drag coupe was a
Yeah, it was sort of, you know, part of
the way to a lightweight car, very I
mean, incredibly beautiful body. And so
the Log Drag GT, which is what one of
the cars that we drove up there, is
Eagle's tribute to that car. And if you
look at them, they're not the same, but
they are very, very similar. If you look
at the one of the original low drag and
um the GTR is a sort of tribute to um to
the lightweight E types. And you can
tell, well, they look very different
actually, but you can tell they're
lightweights because they've got um roof
vents for letting air out of the cabin.
And they've got a vent on the boot,
which is uh you look at think, well,
what's that there for? It's actually to
vent air out of the rear from the rear
brakes. inboard rear brakes. Um, so they
get quite hot and that was a particular
problem. So they wanted to get rid of
the heat so they did that.
>> Um, and yeah, and these cars they were
they were lovely. Uh, they raced at Lore
a lot, but they were never that
successful.
>> Um, so yeah, that's really the story of
how they came about. They were Jaguar's
interpretation of what a racing E type
would be. But because Jaguar didn't have
a racing team in the way that they had
had in the 50s when they're racing the C
types and the DT types, uh they never
got as fully behind them. Uh they just
sold them to customers and privateeers
went racing and we know what happens
when um private teams go racing against
factory teams.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. um factory teams tend to do rather
better and you know and Ferrari wouldn't
have had any works 250 GTOs but they
would had they would have had teams big
teams like Marinella concessionaires and
the North American racing team Scadira
Filipineti um the Belgian what are they
called the Kiri National Belge or Auri
Francon as they sometimes were called
and these would be heavily works backed
teams very very heavily supported from
the factory they were essentially Enzo's
representatives on the racetrack in
those categories
um and the types had nothing like that.
So,
>> the um the the low drag is I think the
most beautiful car I've seen on the
road. [laughter]
>> I really do. I really do. The moment I
saw photos of it a few years ago, I just
thought that is gorgeous. And seeing it
in person, seeing it being driven on the
road, driving on the road,
>> I still think it's the most beautiful
car. It makes you realize you some
people I think Ian Calmer said it that
yeah he loves the E type but he he'd be
the first to say it's not perfect and
then you look at the low drag and you
actually realize that however gorgeous
the original is it's not beyond
improvement.
>> Mhm.
>> Um I took a just a profile picture of it
and I think certainly
>> certainly the profile of that car is
it's the sort of picture of a car you
could show to anyone who had no interest
in cars whatsoever. none at all. Like my
wife
>> and I showed her that and she just went,
"Wow."
>> Yeah, you would. You would. And they are
these Eagles. They are beautifully
finished, beautifully built. Um I'm not
going to give away give away anything
about what they like to drive, but you
can imagine.
>> Sorry. Sorry about that. They're not
rubbish. I think we I think
>> we say that. Um I think when you first
wrote about an eagle several years ago
for us, I think you said they build very
very few. A couple a year. Well, I mean
a couple of each sort.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. But I mean I know that one of the
problem Eagle did run into a problem a
few years back because their waiting
list I think it got to six years.
>> Um
>> it's great to have a waiting list but
too long doesn't
>> too long because people just get cheesed
off and go and buy other stuff instead.
Um so the good news is now if you want
an Eagle um a low drag coupe or a
lightweight GTR you can have it in well
probably 2029 now. [snorts]
Um,
>> yeah.
>> Yeah. Then they're not sure the stuff to
do, but you then if you look at them and
you look at the attention to detail,
>> I mean, the the lightweight GTR, I mean,
the efforts they went to. Did you notice
that the low drag had those, you know,
those sort of twin air horns and then it
makes a two-turn noise when you press
the button in the middle of the steering
wheel.
>> Okay.
>> And you do the same in the GTR and
there's only one,
>> right?
>> So, they've taken away a horn to make
the car a bit lighter.
>> Yeah. And the materials they're using,
um, this is a new type with carbon
ceramic brakes. It's got magnesium sump,
magnesium for the gearbox casing. Uh,
the gear lever is titanium. It's got
titanium conrods in it. I mean, all
through the car,
>> they have just saved saved save weight.
>> Um, so a normal E-ype, I think, is about
1,250 kilos, which in modern terms is
light, really light. Um, and before you
put fuel in it, the lightweight GTR is,
I think, 930.
>> That light.
>> 930. Yeah. Um, and the last Lotus Elise
weighed more than that.
>> Yeah.
>> So, this is, you know, and last had a
1.8 liter engine. This has a 4.7 L
engine in it
>> and it's lighter than an Elise. I don't
think that's quite fair, actually,
because I suspect I'm talking about a
dry weight and the Lotus was a curb
weight, but even so, you get the idea.
It's it's there or thereabouts. You
know, the idea was that with that car
was they wanted to get it under a ton to
see if it could be done. And the
the extraordinary thing about it is it
doesn't feel, you know, stripped out
paired to the bone. A racing car for the
road. It's beautifully. It's got air
conditioning.
>> Yeah. And it's comfortable.
>> And it's comfortable. Yeah.
>> And it still weighs 930.
>> There got to be some lessons. I guess
the problem is is that it's a million
quid. Yeah. Because otherwise you could
just say to the car manufacturers,
modern car manufacturers, just just go
and have a look at this.
>> Get weight out of these cars.
>> And they would just go,
>> "Yes, it's got magnesium, titanium,
unobtanium, and all the other kinds of
[clears throat]
>> Yeah. Okay, fair enough.
>> But it was it was a brilliant day. Um,
and we we just felt very lucky, didn't
we? A to just locked into an essentially
closed road which we could use for
ourselves. But also, I think that there
was there are lessons to be learned. I'm
afraid that, you know, cars like that,
we don't have enormous amounts of grip.
And although they're really quick,
they're not stupidly quick.
>> They're not scary quick. No.
>> Um, and and we I know this is a thing we
return to again and again and again, but
at no stage on that road in those cars
did either of us ever go, "Oh, it's
great, but if only there was another 500
horsepower or 100 horsepower or
horsepower." Yeah, no,
>> it's just not a thought process you
have.
>> And then you look at the million quid,
you think, well, yeah, it's a million
quid. But even in the context of those
[snorts] sorts of cars when Ferrari
want3 £3 million
>> Yeah.
>> for an F80 and you know that if you
turned up outside the hotel de Perry in
>> Monte Carlo in your low drag GT, they'd
be shoveling Ferraris out the way. they
would
>> to make sure you got to part front and
center.
>> Yeah, no question.
>> Just saying it.
>> No question. Um, so that story is coming
out in a few days. It's going to be a
good one. Um, and if that isn't a good
enough reason to subscribe. Let me give
you a few others. Um, it's the
Intercooler is the world's only, we
think, ad free online car magazine.
>> It is.
>> Um, we think it's the best one as well,
even if it is the only one. Um, and for
those of you who just don't have the
time or the inclination to read, you can
now listen to everything that we
produce. Um, and actually on that front
that we are going to have some news
quite soon. Not just yet, Andrew, but we
do have a new product at the bit.
>> Yeah. A new product coming for those who
really just want to listen
>> and a aimed aimed at you got lot the
podcast audience.
>> Yeah, it is. Um, and if you aren't yet
subscribed, you there'll be a link in
the description or in the show notes
underneath. And if you use coupon code
pod 20 um and you choose an annual
subscription, a you'll get a 30-day free
trial and b you'll get 20% off for the
first year. Um every every single month
we give a supernatural car care kit away
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um is the car care company that we've
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We're working with them all throughout
this year. next. Um, they produce really
good, high quality car key car cleaning
kit, excuse me. And every single month,
we give away a kit worth £125.
Uh, if you don't happen to be one of the
lucky winners, you can um still benefit
from this partnership by using coupon
code TI10 for a 10% discount at
supernaturalcarcare.com.
Um, my Audi A6 Avant Ron Quattro Edition
one.
[gasps]
>> I'm um,
>> what what is edition one about? Is there
going to be an addition two?
>> No, but they all manufacturers do this
now. It seems they they bang edition one
on the first few cars out the the door
and whack I don't know five 10 grand on
the asking price and people seem to buy
them. But if you say something is a
first edition, that does rather imply
there's going to be a second.
>> Is it? So, so when I say do that, have
they made a limited number of edition
ones? I
>> I don't know actually. I don't know.
Maybe they have.
>> I bet they haven't.
>> Who knows? Um, but you do see that
happen quite a lot these days.
>> Um, and
so I mean there's so much that I could
say about this car. I'm writing about it
on the app and website. So, I just want
to talk a little bit for now about
the everyday family car,
>> right? Because
>> weirdly, I actually haven't run that
many of these sorts of cars. We have a
BMW 3 series at home. That is the family
car. So, I'm very familiar with that.
But in terms of the long-termers that
I've run for us and for other magazines
and in terms of the cars that I've owned
personally,
generally they're sporty cars
>> or performance cars of some stripe. And
this Audi A6, it it's fast cuz it's a
modern electric car. They they all are
fast really, but it's not a performance
car.
>> It's really I would almost call it a
working car. Um because that's what it
does. It's it's a tool, right? It's not
something that you buy. It's not an
enthusiast car by any means.
And normally I wouldn't be that drawn to
this sort of car because my passion for
cars is in is elsewhere. You know, it's
about cars that are great to drive or
beautiful to look at, interestingly
engineered, whatever it is. But and
perhaps it's fatherhood that's the
difference here. When you have a family
in particular, suddenly the boring,
unremarkable, but safe, reliable,
comfortable, spacious family car,
it becomes as welcome a presence in your
household as something sporty that you
might really love.
>> Yeah. Because it's the difference
between wanting something and needing
something. M
>> and your instinct to protect your family
is always going to be stronger than your
instinct to get out and and have a ball
in some piece of, you know, lightweight
fun machinery.
>> So to know that there's a car on the
drive that is going to get my family
safely and comfortably where they need
to be and all our stuff. Um it's it's
actually a very very comforting thought.
It's a reassuring thought.
>> What I would say is you do not need it.
So, this car speced up, it's the
addition one, as I said, it's a quattro,
which means it's one of the most
powerful ones available, and it's got a
few expensive options on it. So, it's a
£92,000 car.
>> You don't need to spend £92,000 to get a
really good working family car.
>> No. And and so often, is it not the case
that so often a lot of this stuff gets
in the way? So, I'm running uh as
listeners will probably know, I'm
running a Range Rover at the moment,
which is an autobiography, £150,000
worth of Range Rover.
>> Yeah. And did we talk about this on a
previous podcast, the diesel that I'd
also been in?
>> Uh, you wrote about it. I'm not sure
you've spoken about it.
>> Okay. So, I also, just for the sake of
comparison, borrowed a diesel one, which
was a much lower specification.
I preferred the plug-in hybrid
powertrain, but in terms of the spec, I
much prefer the lower spec car to my
car. Much it had seats that folded
completely flat,
>> and it was actually a
>> uh it was a long wheel base. It was a
seven-seater and it's like a van in the
back. Whereas mine, I think there's less
usable space in the back of my Range
Rover than there is in the back of our
family Golf,
>> which is nuts.
>> Which is nuts.
>> That is ludicrous.
>> And you sit in the back of it and it's
not like it's uncomfortable.
>> And it's got seven seats rather than
four.
>> Um, and and there are all these optional
goodies on it. I mean, some I love like
it's got a top of the range Meridian
sound system, which is amazing, but
there's so much electric stuff in there.
And I look at this stuff and I don't
think, oh gosh, what a convenience
factor. I think that's just one more
motor to go wrong.
>> Um,
>> and I think if I went through the spec
of that car, I could knock, it's 150
grand car. A base Range Rover is like a
100. I reckon I could knock
>> half the difference off that car and end
up not with something which was as good,
but something I actually preferred.
>> Yeah, I can see that. I can see that.
>> Um, because I mean some people do want
their Range Rover to be essentially a
jackup limousine, don't they? But you
probably want it to be where you live
and the way you use it, you want it to
be more of a working vehicle.
>> Completely.
>> Yeah. So, um, yeah. I mean, this Audi,
it it does the working vehicle thing
very, very well. But honestly, I think
you could get most of most of those
virtues and attributes in a 10 15 grand
pat.
>> Yeah.
>> And particularly with young kids who
kick the crap out of cars, I'm learning,
and smear all sorts into them. It's
probably better if it is a 10 or 15
grand pat, isn't it? Yes. I I think
sadly pass out estate is the answer to
an awful lot of questions.
>> It really is.
>> Yeah. Old pass out of state.
>> Yeah.
>> Um can I talk a just a tiny two minutes
on another car I've driven.
>> Go on.
>> Which isn't really a TI car, but it
interested me.
>> Mhm.
>> I've driven a thing called a DS number
eight.
>> Uhhuh.
>> So this is we know where DS got the name
from. It was from the Citroen DS of the
1950s and 60s and 70s. Um, and DS is
meant to be deus as in god or was it
goddess? Don't know. Anyway, u and DS uh
Citroen or PSA as it was at the time of
Stalantis as it is now launched this new
car brand in the same way that say
launched Cupra as a standalone thing.
And frankly, it hasn't done anything
interesting or do you remember the DS
number three racing which had all the
writing on the road?
>> Oh yeah, I do. Yeah.
>> Okay. That was quite that was almost
interesting but nothing else it's done
has been of any interest to me at all.
Um, and until this number eight thing
turned up, which I only drove briefly,
uh, back end of last week. Um, so I'm
not going to, uh, give you a detailed
road test of it, um, because I don't
really feel that I have spent enough
time in the car, but this is their
attempt to sort of recapture their old
glories. A proper luxury car.
>> Yeah, the big French car.
>> The big French car. And I think I think
frankly, why have big French cars never
worked almost since the original DS?
It's probably a podcast in itself. Uh,
and this the thing about this car is it
nearly does. [laughter]
It nearly does work because
it does ride really well.
>> Job one.
>> Job one. It's not quite S-Class. It's
not quite Range Rover, but it's
credible. It's very credible.
Um, they have try tried quite hard to
create a really interesting interior. To
me, it's a bit overstyized, but I think
that about most cars.
But the problem it has is it just gets
tripped up by the thing that trips up so
many modern cars. And here is another
podcast topic, which we'll get to
another day. um it has to share its
platform with a load of other stuff
which aren't trying to do which aren't
trying to do the same job
>> and and a load of um
parts bin. So,
>> you know, the instrument panel, some of
the switch gear, it does look very
Citroeny
>> and so the illusion gets shattered and
suddenly you realize you're not in a,
you know, drive an original Citroen DS
and everything around it just feels
bespoke and unique and extraordinary.
>> And for all that it does well, and there
are some things it does really quite
well,
>> you can't escape the idea of it being a
tricked up Citroen, at which stage the
illusion is shattered. Um, and I mean I
I wish it well because I was pleasantly
surprised by it, but are people really
gonna get out of their Audi's and their
Mercedes and their BMWs and their Range
Rovers into that? I Because it's like I
think the range spans like 50 to£65,000.
So, it's quite expensive.
>> Is it Is it really for French
bureaucrats and business leaders?
>> Yeah. Well, it possibly is. At which
stage they'll sell 300. It it'll be
like, you know, it'll be like the
Velcatis or the Avon team or the, you
know, it will, you know, it might do
well in in a very small niche in its
home country,
>> but this is not going to be the car that
establishes DS as a credible presence on
the world stage or even the European
stage. I can't see it happening. And
it's a shame because it does get a lot
of things right. One thing it gets
horribly wrong um was you put your foot
down, you know, we always used to winge
about electric cars. You put your foot
down and then suddenly you get you go
from nothing to everything in the blink
of an eye and you're vomiting and
feeling horrible and your children are
screaming. This does the reverse.
>> Well, it's just not there's not
>> Put your foot down and really very
little happens and after about a second
it goes, "Oh Okay, off you go."
>> Oh, that's so strange.
>> You're trying to overtake something.
>> That's so strange.
>> Yeah.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. Anyway, so I only want to do two
minutes on that and and it occurred to
me as we were recording this podcast.
There's not something that we planned to
talk about before, but I just thought
you were talking about your car. I just
thought, have I driven anything
interesting? And I have.
>> There you go. Um, there's one last thing
I want to talk about. Um, Jensen Button,
>> person, not thing.
>> Sorry, Jensen.
>> Who who will race as a professional
full-time racing driver one last time
this weekend. Yes.
>> At the 8 hours of Bahrain.
>> Yes.
>> Um, so for the last couple of seasons,
he's been racing a Cadillac. Well, he's
been racing with team JOT, a Cadillac
this season. It was the Porsche last
season. So, a topsp spec, you know,
lemon hypercar.
>> He's 45 now. Um, he obviously the 2009
F1 champion. I think that 2009 season is
one of F1's greatest ever tales. It's a
brilliant story. You be familiar with
it.
>> You you've probably seen the film.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's um it's an
amazing story. So Jensen won 15 Grand
Prix. Um, and he's since retiring at the
end of 2016, although he did do Monaco
in 2017 as a one-off. Um, he's raced
everything.
>> He's raced Japanese Super GT. He's raced
GT3, Rally Cross, Extreme, NASCAR,
>> historic,
>> lots of historic. Um, he's also raced uh
obviously hypercars. He's raced at Lemon
four times with a best of seventh, which
just shows how hard it is to win there,
>> you know. He's he's always been part of
fantastic driver lineups with a great
car and he's never done better than
seventh, which is it's just so hard to
even get on the podium at that place.
>> But what but what I love about him, he's
he's not one of these guys um who, you
know, completes their final Formula 1
race and then walks away because to them
anything else is just pointless. Yeah,
>> because you've been to the top and why
would you go back down again? He is a
man who clearly just loves racing.
>> Yeah,
>> I really admire that. I mean, I do
understand I don't judge people for
walking away because I think I've said
before on this podcast, there are many
people who do Formula 1 not because they
particularly love cars, but because they
love winning and the car is just the
means by which they do that.
>> Um, and once once they won the most
important thing you can win, then what
be the point of continuing? He just
obviously loves it.
>> He does. I just want to talk about his
probably his greatest ever Formula 1
race.
>> Would that be Canada 2011?
>> Well done. Um, so this was an amazing
race, wet to dry. It lasted over 4
hours. Um, with a almost 2hour red flag
interruption for the rain in the middle.
So, it's the longest Formula 1 race in
history. Um,
we'll we'll discuss the circumstances,
but Jensen Button's winning average
speed because of those stoppages was 46
miles per hour,
>> which makes it the slowest F1 race in
history.
>> Yeah, I'm sure.
>> Must do. Well, the previous record was
there was uh there was a Monaco in 1972,
Jean Pierre Bells won, and that was in
the early 60 mph, maybe late 50. Yeah.
>> But I've never heard anything in the
40s. Not even in the not even right at
the very early days of the Formula 1
World Championship. Never got anywhere
near that.
>> 46 miles per hour. So, uh, Jensen,
he he had two punctures. Um, he went
through the pits six times. At least one
of those was a penalty. He had contact
with Lewis Hamilton, Lewis Hamilton, his
teammate, and Alonso and Delar Roa. He
ran last, I think, twice,
but he took the lead on the last lap and
won. Um, and if you remember, he
overtook Sebastian Vettle when Vettle
was leading. Um, and he made a mistake
on the very last lap. The track was
almost dry, or certainly there was a dry
line. Vettle just ran a little bit wide,
perhaps under Jensen Buns, under
pressure from Button.
>> Um, and he his car snapped. He ran wide
and Jensen was able to nick nip through
and go ahead and win the race.
And well, a it was an amazing race from
Jensen. Such a dramatic race uh for him,
you know, so much going on. Um and he
actually is the master. He was the
master in those wet to dry conditions,
>> marginal conditions. He was in his era,
he was the best.
>> His judgment as to when to switch from
wet to dry or dry to wet tires was
impeccable. But also, he just had a
feel, just had a touch in those in those
in those difficult conditions. He was so
good.
But I think one of the most profound
things about that win in 2011, remember
this is the height of the Sebastian
Vettle era, well he was the reigning
champion from 2010 and um he seemingly
could do no wrong at that time. And yet
he made that mistake and I think
everyone just looked at that and just
thought, "Oh my, actually this kid is
human."
>> Yes.
>> It was the it was the first sort of
crack in his armor that we all saw.
>> Yes. Um, and we realized that he was
fallible after all.
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
>> not the last.
>> Not the last. No, but actually it was it
was absolutely Jensen Button's day that.
So, he he's retiring because um he just
wants to spend more time with his young
family.
>> He will still race historic. He said,
"I've got classic cars I love to race."
And for me, that's exciting because it's
mine, a car that I own, and I love the
mechanical aspect. It's very different
to the cars I race in WEC and F1. you're
really just connected. You're really
connected to it, which I love. Having to
heel and toe, getting the gear shift
just right, no arrow. It's all
mechanical. So, that really is someone
who just loves driving.
>> Can I Well, a few things about Jensen.
Um, firstly, I think that he had and
I've always said I so admire drivers,
not just for how fast they can drive a
car, but how they conduct themselves.
You remember all those years with those
Honda engines?
>> Yeah. Um, and he hardly I think there
may have been one time when the
frustration got a bit too much for him,
but he was so loyal.
>> Um, and so much just part of the team
uh, and doing all that sort of stuff. I
really admired that. I also, and I said
this on the podcast before, I can
remember going to Goodwood and I had a
job at the Festival of Speed going
around interviewing drivers and said,
"What's the most impressive thing you
saw this weekend?" And Sterling said,
"Oh, it was Jensen easily." And I went,
"Well, I couldn't remember what Jensen
ridden." And I said, "Well, what what
did he do?" And he said, "We all went up
to the top of the hill." Um, and we all
got out of our cars and we were talking
and J got out of his car instead of
talking to all his mates, he went over
to the fans and spent the entire time I
think there was a someone had crashed on
the hill, so they're out there for a
long time and he spent the entire time
just talking to fans.
>> Yeah.
>> And Sterling just thought that was so
impressive. Uh I also thought that
deciding to go to McLaren when Lewis
Hamilton was there.
>> We all thought he was nuts. You know,
he'd won his world championship. He, you
know, he should just, you know, accept
that that had happened and be very happy
with that. But why go and put yourself
next to the best person, possibly the
best driver that's ever been? And he did
it. And okay, he never beat Lewis to a
championship, but he acquitted himself
extremely well. And I thought that was
such a gutsy decision.
Um, and he always just seemed like a
really nice guy.
>> He does seem like a good guy and he's
brilliant on Sky F1's um, punditry team.
>> Yes,
>> he just seems like a good
>> and if Jason you find yourself with a
bit more time in your hands these days,
>> come on the podcast.
>> Yeah. Um, well, listen, let's let's wrap
this one up. Um, I will just remind you
all to subscribe to the YouTube channel
if you're watching or just follow the
show on whichever podcast app you're
using. Um, that really helps us. It just
means that we find new listeners which
clearly is a very very good thing for us
but it also means that you won't ever
miss an episode. So please do that and
in return we'll be back next week and we
will see you
About this episode
Exploring the value of 'boring' cars, hosts Dan Proser and Andrew Frankle discuss their recent driving experience in Wales with two unique Eagle E-Types. They delve into the upcoming Brazilian Grand Prix, analyzing the championship battle between Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri, while reflecting on the pressures of Formula 1. The episode also touches on Jensen Button's retirement from full-time racing and his remarkable career, highlighting his character and contributions to motorsport. Listeners can expect a mix of insightful commentary and personal anecdotes.
Original notes
Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel discuss unexciting working cars and why they can be as welcome in the household as the most exciting ones. They also discuss Eagle E-Types and pay tribute to Jenson Button as he prepares for his final race as a full-time professional.
Use coupon code pod20 at checkout to get 20% off an annual subscription to The Intercooler's online car magazine for the first year! Listen to this podcast ad-free, and enjoy a subscriber-only midweek podcast too. With a 30-day free trial, you can try it risk-free – https://www.the-intercooler.com/subscribe/
Find out more about JBR Capital here – https://www.jbrcapital.com
Use coupon code Ti10 to get 10% off your Supernatural Car Care order – https://supernaturalcarcare.com/
The Intercooler
Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel
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44:49