Curb feelers are little metal pieces that stick out near the side of the car. If you get too close to a curb, they touch first and make a noise so you don’t scrape or damage your wheels.
Wheel alignment means adjusting the car so the wheels point in the right directions. When it’s done correctly, the car drives straighter and the tires wear more evenly.
Ride height is how high the car sits off the ground. Lowering or raising it can change how the car feels and handles, and it can be annoying to adjust on certain setups.
The Porsche 911 Turbo (930) is a famous older 911 Turbo model. They’re talking about how its gear ratios make it feel unusual at highway speeds, and also about how adjusting ride height on this setup can be a pain.
Gear ratios are how the transmission multiplies the engine’s motion. If the ratios are “tall,” the engine turns slower at highway speeds, and the car can feel like it’s not in the right gear for the way you drive.
The Lotus Elise is a small, lightweight sports car built to feel sharp and fun to drive. This one came in with engine problems, and the protective film on the front had gotten moldy and worn out.
A clear bra is a thin, clear protective sheet that sticks to your car’s paint. It helps prevent scratches and rock chips, but over time it can peel or get gross-looking if it’s been through bad weather or moisture.
Mold infestation means mold is growing where moisture is trapped. With clear protective film, water can get underneath, and then the film can start looking stained and nasty—so it may need to be taken off.
Concept
paint-protection film edge failure
Sometimes the clear protective film doesn’t stay sealed at the edges. When water gets underneath, it can cause staining and growth, and the film may need to be removed.
Brand
3M
3M is a company that makes lots of materials used in cars, including clear protective film. The host is saying they worked there and knows a lot about these products.
The BMW E30 is an older BMW 3 Series (from the late 1980s/early 1990s). Car people love it because it drives well and there are lots of parts and upgrades available.
Alpina is a tuner/brand that builds BMWs with its own performance and comfort-focused engineering. When someone says they love an “Alpina,” they’re usually referring to an Alpina-tuned BMW with distinctive suspension, tuning, and trim.
The Ferrari 296 is a high-end Ferrari that uses a turbo V6 plus an electric motor. It’s a hybrid supercar—fast like a supercar, but with extra electric assist.
The Mercedes-Benz S-Class is a large luxury car meant for very comfortable rides. It’s built with features that focus on passengers in the back seat as well as the front. The podcast mentions it as a reference point for an executive-style car.
“Cars and coffee” is a casual car meet where people show up early, park their cars, and hang out while looking at everyone’s rides. It’s a big part of car culture in many cities.
The Nissan 300 ZX is a sports car coupe from Nissan’s Z lineup. It’s known for being a performance-style car rather than a regular sedan. The podcast mentions it while talking about different versions, including automatic ones.
The Porsche 928 is an older Porsche sports car that was made decades ago. It’s known for its V8 engine and grand-touring style, meaning it was built for comfortable long-distance driving. The podcast mentions it because someone brought one to show off.
A naturally aspirated engine doesn’t use a turbo or supercharger to push air in. It relies on the engine’s normal breathing, and the hosts are debating whether that can continue for the GT3.
Turbocharging uses a turbo to cram more air into the engine. More air usually means more power, and the hosts are wondering if Porsche might switch the GT3 to turbocharging.
A turbocharged engine uses a device that squeezes more air into the engine. More air helps the engine make more power, and it can also help carmakers meet stricter rules.
The Porsche 911 is a famous sports car model from Porsche. It’s known for its distinctive design and strong performance. The podcast brings up turbocharged 911s because they’re a big part of what people argue about and love.
Emissions requirements are government rules about how much pollution a car is allowed to produce. When they get stricter, carmakers have to adjust how engines are built to keep making power without breaking the law.
Cybersecurity regulations are rules meant to keep connected car systems secure from hacking. If a car’s software platform can’t be updated enough, the manufacturer may have to stop selling that version.
A cybersecurity mandate is a government rule about making connected cars secure from hacking. The hosts are saying those rules can change which versions of a car a company can sell in the U.S.
The Porsche Macan is Porsche’s smaller SUV. The hosts are talking about whether Porsche will keep selling the gas version in the U.S. based on government rules and costs.
The EV mandate of 2035 is a policy that aims to get more cars to be electric by 2035. The hosts connect it to why companies might stop spending money on certain gas models for the U.S.
ICE means the traditional gas engine. “ICE V8 powertrains” means cars built around a V8 gas engine, and the hosts are saying GM is still spending money on that tech.
EVs are cars that run on electricity from a battery instead of gasoline. The hosts are saying some companies are changing plans and spending more again on gas cars.
This just means regular gasoline engines—the kind that burn fuel to make power. The point is that automakers are shifting money back toward those engines.
R&D means research and development—the spending and effort to design and test new car technology. The point here is that it costs a lot because you need specialized tools and time to build new systems.
“Capital intensive” means the business needs a lot of expensive equipment to operate. For car companies, that’s factories and production tools, so big changes can cost a fortune.
Stellantis is a big car company that makes a lot of different brands. When people talk about what’s happening to car prices and rules, Stellantis is one of the companies that gets affected.
The Corvette is a well-known American sports car. The discussion is about whether GM might offer it with a manual transmission again, which matters to drivers who like shifting themselves.
“Consumables” are the wear-and-tear items you go through faster when you drive on a track. Think of things like tires and brakes that you replace more often.
Topic
Underrated vs overrated cars segment
They’re switching to a new part of the show where they talk about cars they think are underrated. Each person is picking three cars to explain.
The rear control arm is part of the suspension that helps hold the rear wheel in the right position. If it’s not right, the car won’t handle as well, so you often need an alignment after repairs.
Larger displacement means the engine was modified to be bigger inside. That can change the car’s power and how it pulls when you accelerate.
Topic
affordable sports cars vs expensive new cars
They’re talking about why new cars cost so much, and pointing to older or more affordable sports cars that still feel fun to drive. The Boxster is used as the example.
The Mazda Miata is a small two-seat convertible roadster. It’s made to be fun and easy to drive, especially on twisty roads. The podcast mentions it because the host sold one and misses it.
The Porsche 986 Boxster S is the early version of the Boxster, and the “S” is the stronger, sportier trim. People often look at it because it’s one of the more affordable ways to get a Porsche-style driving feel.
The Honda S2000 is a sports car with a four-cylinder engine that spins very high. The hosts are comparing it to the Porsche Boxster, including how the engines feel and sound.
A “flat six” is an engine design where the cylinders are laid out flat, like two rows lying opposite each other. People often like the sound and feel of this setup, and the host says exhaust changes can make it even better.
Concept
C5 treatment
“C5 treatment” sounds like a particular way of setting up or modifying a C5 Corvette. In this clip, they’re hinting at applying that same idea to another car, but they don’t list the exact parts.
The C5 Corvette Z06 is a high-performance Corvette from the early 2000s. In this segment they’re praising it as a great track option for the money, and they also talk about how it’s comfortable and easy to live with compared to some other sports cars.
A “budget track car” is a car you can take to a racetrack without spending exotic-level money. The idea is to get fun and speed on track while keeping costs more manageable.
Callaway is a company that modifies cars to make them faster or sound better. Here, they’re talking about having a Callaway specialist install performance upgrades like an exhaust.
The Porsche 981 Cayman S is an older Cayman generation, and the host says it was their first Porsche. They’re praising it for how it feels to drive and how great it sounds with the Porsche Sport exhaust.
The Porsche Cayman is a sports car with a fixed roof and a mid-mounted engine. It’s built for sporty driving rather than just commuting. The podcast mentions it because the host owns one and is talking about their experience.
Porsche Sport exhaust is an upgraded exhaust option made for the car. It’s meant to make the engine sound better and more exciting than the standard exhaust.
Mid-engine means the engine is placed near the middle of the car, behind you. The host thinks that placement helps the car feel more balanced and fun to drive.
Long gearing means the gears are set up so the engine spins slower at higher speeds. The host is saying people argue about whether that changes how fun the car feels.
The Porsche Cayman S is a mid-engine Porsche sports car. Here, the host is saying it can feel close to a GT4 on normal roads, but the GT4 pulls ahead once you’re driving hard on a track.
The Porsche Cayman GT4 is the more track-ready version of the Cayman. The host’s point is that you may not notice much on normal driving, but on a track the GT4 feels more capable and confidence-building.
Here, “aero” means the car’s shape and add-on parts that affect airflow. The host is saying it’s not always obvious at first, but it can make the car feel more stable and grippy when you drive aggressively.
Car
Dodge Hellcat
The Dodge Hellcat is a very powerful muscle car. The host is saying sports-car people often dismiss it, but after driving one, he found it genuinely fun.
The Dodge Challenger is a powerful muscle-style sports car. The podcast talks about the Hellcat version and says it doesn’t get enough credit. The point is that it’s a strong performance car that people may overlook.
The BAC Mono is a very small, lightweight, track-style car that feels more like a race machine than a normal car. The host compares it to the Hellcat to show how wildly different the driving feel can be.
A special red key is like an extra key mode that changes how the car behaves. The host is saying it can unlock a more aggressive performance setup for drag racing.
Slicks are special tires made for drag racing. They have almost no tread so they can grip the track better, but they wear out fast and aren’t great for normal street use.
Drag racing is racing in a straight line over a short distance. The goal is maximum acceleration, so the car gets set up with tires and parts that help it launch and grip better.
“Lift the front wheel” means the car’s front end comes up during hard acceleration. It’s a sign the car has a lot of pulling power and the rear tires are gripping the road.
Canyons are roads with lots of curves. The host is saying that kind of driving is great for handling-focused cars, but many places don’t have roads like that.
The Dodge Challenger Hellcat is a super-powerful muscle car. The host is excited because you can get it with a manual transmission, meaning you can drive it like an old-school enthusiast car.
The Dodge Charger Hellcat is a very powerful muscle car. The host is saying you can’t get the Charger Hellcat with a manual gearbox, so it’s harder to buy one if you want to shift yourself.
A manual transmission means you shift gears yourself with a clutch pedal and a stick. The host likes the idea because it can make a super-powerful car feel more connected to the driver.
The Dodge Viper is a very powerful sports car with a bold, aggressive design. It’s known for having a large engine and a raw driving feel. The podcast mentions it because someone recognized it and it did well in a competition.
HEMI is an engine design name Dodge uses on its performance V8s. In this case, it means the Challenger has the 392 HEMI V8, not the more extreme Hellcat setup.
The BMW Z4 is a small two-seat convertible roadster. It’s made for sporty driving and open-top fun. The podcast mentions older model years while talking about which Z4 they drove or considered.
The S54 is BMW’s performance straight-six engine used in the E46 M3. It’s known for revving high and feeling lively, which is why the host thinks this car is so engaging to drive.
The BMW Z3 is a small two-seat convertible roadster. The podcast says it feels a bit more refined and less “raw” than some other versions. It’s being used as an example of how different roadster models can drive differently.
This is a type of rear suspension design that helps control how the rear wheels move. The host is saying their car’s rear suspension setup didn’t work as well when they tried to drive it hard on a track.
“Fox body” is a nickname for a specific generation of the Ford Mustang. It helps you know the car is from the 1980s Mustang era and what it generally looks like.
The Ford Mustang SVO is a Mustang variant built for performance, but instead of a V8 it uses a turbocharged four-cylinder. The hosts also point out its 1980s Fox-body look and unique exterior details.
The Ford Mustang GTD is a special, higher-performance version of the Mustang. The podcast says it was introduced around the same time as the regular Mustang GT and that it’s meant to be a big step up in performance. The focus is on how serious and fast this GTD is.
An asymmetric front hood scoop is a raised intake opening on the hood that channels airflow toward the engine bay. The “asymmetric” part means it’s not centered, which can be a distinctive styling and functional cue on certain performance models.
A rear spoiler is a part on the back of the car that helps the air flow more smoothly. It’s commonly used on performance cars and also makes them look more aggressive.
Zero to 60 time is a simple measure of how quickly a car speeds up from stopped to 60 mph. The discussion is about whether you should pay a lot for that kind of number.
“Electronic gremlins” means annoying car problems caused by the car’s electronics—things like sensors or computer modules. The question is whether those kinds of issues are a big deal or just occasional annoyances.
The Lotus Emira is a sports car made to be fun to drive. It’s built with a focus on handling and driver experience. The podcast brings it up while talking about people’s stories and interest in newer cars.
An automatic transmission is the kind of gearbox that changes gears for you. The hosts are saying some people have had more trouble with automatics when they take the car to a race track.
The Toyota Supra is a sports car built for performance and driving excitement. It’s designed to feel fast and sporty rather than like a normal commuter car. The podcast brings it up as part of a lineup aimed at performance buyers.
Electronic complexity means the car has lots of computer-controlled features and systems. The hosts are implying that more electronics can lead to more small problems and can be harder to fix if you don’t have the right dealer or tools nearby.
A factory warranty is the official coverage from the car maker that pays for certain repairs for a limited time. The hosts are saying it matters a lot if you have a dealer nearby, because warranty work is usually handled through them.
Electrical issues are problems with the car’s electronics—like sensors, wiring, or computer-controlled parts. The hosts are saying modern cars have more of this stuff, so you may need a good dealer to diagnose it.
A sensor is a device that measures something (like temperature or airflow) and tells the car’s computer. If a sensor is wrong or fails, the car can behave oddly and may need a scan tool to figure out what’s happening.
Concept
pre-owned vs. newer-generation strategy
They’re suggesting that buying an older generation can be smarter because many early problems get fixed over time. It’s a way to reduce the chance of running into brand-new electronic quirks.
A dealer network is the set of authorized dealerships that can service a brand, stock parts, and handle warranty work. The hosts argue that Lotus is held back by a lack of a strong distribution and dealer network, which affects how easily owners can get repairs done.
The Lotus Exige is a lightweight sports car designed to be fun to drive, often with a more performance-focused setup. In the podcast, it’s mentioned as being easier to own and more reliable than another Lotus model being discussed. The takeaway is that it’s presented as the more practical option.
The hosts are saying sports cars often get the most attention when they’re new. After a few years, people move on to the next new thing unless the car keeps getting fresh updates.
They’re describing a situation where sales and interest fall very quickly after the early excitement wears off. For sports cars, that can happen unless the brand keeps things fresh.
A paddle shift is when you change gears using buttons or levers behind the steering wheel. It’s being mentioned here as part of the newer powertrain/tech package they’re talking about.
The Lotus Evora is a sports car with the engine placed closer to the middle. It’s designed to feel agile and fun on the road. The podcast mentions the Evora GT as a tougher, more performance-oriented version.
The check engine light is a warning light that means the car noticed something it doesn’t like. Sometimes it can be a temporary problem, and the light may turn off again later.
LIVE
Hey everybody, welcome back. Hey guys here. I got you as always. What's up,
she knew a Blair excited to be back. Yeah. Well, we've got a lot of great things to talk
about. But before we dive in to those, we have great news. Tim Harris sent in another
dispatch. So she knew, let us know what Tim had to say from Puerto Rico this week.
Welcome to full throttle talk, the podcast where force power meets conversation from
supercars to classic legends, high revving tech to motorsport mayhem. We covered all
straight from the driver's seat, whether you're a gear head eraser or just love the
thrill of the open road, you're in the right place. Buckle up, hit the gas and let's go
full throttle into today's episode. All right. So here's from Tim Harris. I'm headed to bowling
green with my neighbor bad bunny to spec our new ZR one X's. My agent chatty G thinks
we should request chrome wheels and curb feelers. He's calling it the PR spec. Well, I actually
personally think he's hallucinating. And you know, I don't really think Mr. Rome was
going to allow it anyhow. Wish me luck. See you soon. Tim Harris. Oh man, he said chrome
wheels and curb what? Curve feelers, man. Curve feelers. What are those? I don't even know
what that is. Do you? Yeah, there are these little metal like extensions that are flexible
that come off the side of the car to let you know when you are getting close to the curb.
It literally feels the curb and it makes a scraping sound so you don't mess up your wheels,
your chrome wheels. That would not be great for Tim nor bad bunnies image to come up and
just grind the crap out of those wheels parking lot. So yeah, great, great update, Tim. We
appreciate you chiming in even though you can't be here. But on that note, Chinu, I'm
excited to hear what you've done in cars this week. So please let's tell us what's been
happening down there in Temecula. You know, the shop, there's always something going on
in the shop, right? We aligned a couple of Porsches this week. So I had a chance to get
out and drive a couple of cars that were pretty fun. A Boxster, which we're going to talk
a little bit more about later. And we're talking a first gen Boxster. Yeah, first gen Boxster
was 2001 actually. And Boxster S. Yeah, it was an S. It had a bunch of mods, you know,
operated engine, but we'll talk a little bit more about it because what impressed me was
the handling when we were done with the alignment, the handling really was pretty sublime. I
was really impressed. But the other car that we aligned this week, we had to do set the
ride height as well, which is kind of a pain on a 930 turbo. We were talking about 930s
last week. And so I had some strong things to say last week. You did. You did. But listen,
man, you know, we're very opinionated and we know what we like, right? And don't like.
So but that car was pretty fun. But one of the things that I noticed about it was the
gearing is really tall. It's been a while since I drove a 930. And the gearing was really tall.
So yeah, well, up until 19, well, they started in 76, I believe. Don't don't hate me if all of you
out there. If I get if I get some of these model years a little off. But I think it was 76 to 89.
And my understanding, at least in the US is the only model that had a five speed was 1989.
I've never driven one of those. I got a buddy who has a beautiful example. They're worth a lot
more money. They and by all accounts, they do shorten the gearing a little bit. But that's
always been one of my complaints about all these pre 89. The bulk of 930s is that four speed is
like, I mean, you're going 60 miles an hour or something like that in first gear, which I just
have never been able to like wrap my head around it. And maybe we need to have a longer discussion
about we should we should let's let's let's put a pin in that one, man, because I think we could
have a full segment talking about gear ratios on sports cars. So anyways, so that was the 930,
right? And then the other thing, in fact, I'm going to put it in my background at the at this
very moment. And this was a Lotus Elise that was sent to us. And let me let me show you guys a
little bit more if those of you are watching on the video, our YouTube channel. That's this car
this Lotus Elise was sent to us from Florida. The client had some engine issues with it. But he's
like, Hey, you know, I think I'm going to refresh it. He didn't let on to me how condition of this
car. But the clear bra on this car is completely degraded and moldy to an extent that I have never
seen. You know, we should talk about clear bra as well, maybe at a later date. But this was
absolutely the worst mold infestation I have ever seen on clear bra. I mean, it looked like it had
some sort of camouflage, you know, graphic on the car. When I first saw it, like, what's going on
here? And then as they got closer, oh, my God. And so the point I think is that there's a lot of
people that think that clear bra is a lifetime product or it lasts for years and years. Well,
it certainly does it in this car, which is actually a 2008 model Elise. The clear bra is
completely shot and it's from Florida. I believe the guy leaves the car outside in a carport.
So, you know, it's getting hit pretty hard. But are you sure he's just leaving it under a carport
or is he like halfway submerged in the Everglades? It came out of a swamp, man. I mean, it's like
the swamp thing. It was like, oh, my God, I've never seen it this bad. And so, yeah, we're not
looking forward to removing it, but it's going to have to come off because it just it looks despicable.
Yeah. What are those boats that have the motors on the back and you glide on top of the water? You
know, yeah, I think I don't think like a hovercraft. Yeah, maybe whatever. My wife and kids and I did
that down in Florida a few years back and it's awesome. And you just rip across the top of the
water. It looks like on that journey, we were spotting alligators. Oh, yeah. And this makes me
think of this being submerged in the water there, you know, just mud and filth. That is crazy that
the clear bra is that jacked up. It's so bad. It's the worst we've ever seen. So anyways, we
we'll talk about clear bra in the future because I worked at 3M on this product back in the early
90s. So I know I could bore people from here to Kingdom come about clear bra, but we'll have to
talk about in the future. What did you do this week? What have you been up to? Well, I think we
should do a three hour marathon on clear bra next week. Settle in. We're going to give us all
the nerdy 3M talk. And anyways, no, but I have a lot of strong opinions on that. So I look forward
to touching that at some point in the future. This week behind me on the YouTube feed, you can see
that, you know, I'm not a big cars and coffee guy typically, which is funny because I love to chat
about cars, but I find when you go to cars and coffee. Well, Blair, listen, you're not going
to be able to fit a lawn chair in the back of that 111 RS. I'm sorry.
Yeah, exactly. But that's I think why I struggle with cars and coffee because on one hand,
it's ridiculous. The guys, the old dudes who pull out their lawn chair and just sit there.
But on the other hand, it's like, well, isn't that... They love talking about their car, right?
Yeah. But I also think that's kind of the interesting bit or aspect to cars and coffee
whereas usually most people show up. You just walk around the parking lot like I did the other
night and you're like, oh, that's sweet. I love that E30 BMW, that Alpina. I wonder who in this
vast sea of people owns that car because I would really like to talk to them about it. So I usually
find that I make the rounds, never get to talk to the guys about their cars that I would like to.
So I just think it's all kind of weird. But this is a really small Tuesday night outside of a taco
stand, you know, Mexican restaurant here in my neighborhood basically. I got my boys to go with
me, my 13-night Rooligan twins. They have really no interest, but they were sitting around. I'm
like, guys, come on, the weather's good. So I took the Mitsubishi Bravo, of course. Excellent.
Two cars and coffee because they were coming with me. I think I bribed them and said, hey,
we're at the Mexican restaurant. I'll buy you some churros and they're like, sweet dad, we're in.
That's usually what it took for me to get my kids, you know, hey, we're going to get some ice cream
out for us. I got to bribe them somehow and that's all it took. Yeah. And I think the noteworthy bit
to this little car gathering, you know, in this picture you can see behind me is a Ferrari 296.
I wish bad bunny. By the way, beautiful color, man. Beautiful color. Yeah. I wish Tim were here
to tell us what color that is. He probably would know. It's a sky blue, had a really light interior
inside, which is great. But the noteworthy part about this is not seeing a Ferrari 296,
even though they're very beautiful and cool. But right behind it was this Toyota Sentry.
And for those who may not be familiar with the Toyota Sentry, it's like the 90s version of
Japan's attempt to compete with like the executive S-Class, you know, sitting the back of the car,
have your driver drive you around in it. And this car was awesome. And I found myself captivated
by looking at it. I took more pictures of that Sentry than anything else there. It was awesome.
So I've got back to back in this picture, the 296 with the Sentry behind it. And you can actually
see if you look in the back, kind of just to the side of that tree, you see the top of my
Bravo sticking up. Just anyways, the Bravo turned out to be a hit. Guys were all over this little
van. And of course, and it's funny for my boys to see that they're like, that they roll their eyes
at about everything I do, especially when it comes to my cars. So it was funny for them to see that
guys were taking a serious interest in this Bravo and like, see guys popping up his chest a little
bit, feeling like a man. Well, you know, the attempt was never to win the cars and coffee,
but I was in the running this past week. I had some serious fans. So that's what I did,
not not the most exciting, but it was fun. Yeah, that's cool. Listen, cars and coffee,
I enjoy them. For some guys, it's it's a weekly ritual. Like out here, they'll be, you know,
there's some some of the cars and coffees, which there's probably every weekend, there's probably
50 of them minimum. You know, our local Temecula one happens the first Saturday of the month.
And, you know, it starts at about 730 by nine o'clock, it's over, you know, so it's an hour,
two hours max, and then it's it's it's over, you know, so it's kind of nice to go shoot the
shit with your old friends. Yeah, look at some cars and off you go. But yeah, I mean, to me,
that's just one part of this whole car hobby. And I can't say I go every weekend. But,
you know, I certainly probably once a month, I'm probably out of cars and coffee event.
The guys who are regular and and bring their sometimes awesome cars, sometimes
awesome Corvette oftentimes, or sometimes just a random car that is like the automatic version
of the Nissan 300 or 240, you know, whatever it was. And and they're there every single week.
And I do think that is cool. Not totally my cup of tea. And like I say, it's just that odds
because I want to see all the cars. But I also want to talk to guys about their cars. And it's
hard to do that, which that's kind of the point. So yeah, well, locally, we you know, we it's
interesting. We've got some guys with some serious, you know, cars around here, too, like you do, I
know. But one of them was the founder of K&N Engineering, Jerry. So I've known Jerry for,
I guess, probably 25 years now. And, you know, he sold that business. I'm going to say it was
certainly before COVID, maybe 10 years ago now. And but he shows up with something different
almost every time. And he's got a ton of Lamborghinis. You know, he some good funny stories with him.
But one of the like a few months ago, he showed up with a 928, a brown one, like a like first
generation 928. Yeah. And he bought that car new, you know, he still has it. It was very cool.
Very good shape. Yeah, pretty cool. Well, that before we move on to the news here,
that just reminds me to let people know, Shanu and I keep talking about having guests on this
podcast, because we've got collectively some really interesting people around us. And Shanu,
you keep bringing up the rolodex of all the people you know, I think the the the audience
deserves to hear from some of your friends in the industry. So that will do at some point.
Yeah, we got to do it. We got to figure out a little bit of the technical logistics of pulling
something like that off. But yeah, absolutely. We're going to do it. Cool. Well, moving into the
news, I can't not talk about Porsche. So I will try to move through this quickly. But I just two
items of note that I found interesting and want your take on. Yeah. Number one is with all the
GT3 SC, the Cabriolet news that had came out and the content that was that drove.
There was an interview, I think, car and driver and a lot of people did with Andreas
Poininger, the head of the GT department. And they talked about the future of the GT3 and the
naturally aspirated crown jewel, as you've called it before, which is so spot on. Incredible
motor. Well, he basically said that, yeah, it looks like changes are coming to their ability or
to continue to build that motor and keep it naturally aspirated. Right. And and a quote
that he said in this interview was in America, I don't know. Meaning, and I think he was asked,
how long will can you continue to run this thing? And he said, quite some time, maybe in Europe,
probably only a few years without any substantial changes. Right. This is car and driver saying,
we followed up by asking whether he saw turbocharging as a potential path forward for the GT3
to which he responded, it might be. So, I kind of had a field day last week with turbocharged
911s. I don't want to open some of those those wounds that I caused last week. But
you can imagine how I feel about this. What are your thoughts? No, listen, I'm with you, man. I
don't really want to see a turbocharged, you know, GT3 car. But, you know, it's hard for a
manufacturer to meet the, you know, just increasingly difficult emission requirements
and hit the horsepower and performance targets that they're trying to achieve. And so,
I think, you know, it's inevitable. And what was interesting, his comment that, you know,
the emissions requirements in the US might actually be a bit lax in comparison to what's
happening in the Euroland nowadays. And so, that's interesting. And again, it speaks to a
issue that the whole industry faces. And, you know, it's really being led and driven by
these first world country requirements, which is making it so hard, like we talked about before,
for them to deliver a product cost effectively. And actually, my news, I wonder if we should
roll right into my news, because I think it's somewhat related, you know. Well, build on that
real quick, because I think it does roll perfectly into this segment that it's also the other bit
of Porsche info I have. And then I'd love to hear what you've got to say, because it's going to be
fascinating. But speaking of emissions and regulations and government, you know, intrusion
into the cars, now I'm not saying it's all bad. But the other bit of news I found interesting
is, did you hear, I didn't even know the Porsche Macan internal combustion variant is ending this
summer? Oh, yeah. And they are citing not emissions, which I think is interesting, but a
different form of government regulations. It's a cybersecurity regulation and mandate that Europe
has imposed on all of the manufacturers. The GT G2 RS or something is the statute. And they're
basically saying, well, we didn't plan to keep or reinvest the money into this old Macan that has
been around since 2014, 2015. So we're not up to snuff or this car can't meet those cybersecurity
regulations. But what I found so interesting about that is, well, so they're going to keep
the EV version going, and they are going to replace this Macan with another gas powered version
variant, but not for two years. So for the next two years, there's not going to be a gas powered
Macan. The fascinating thing about this is the United States doesn't impose that same cybersecurity
requirement on manufacturers. And 31% of all Porsche deliveries. Now, I don't know about Macans in
general, or specifically, but in 2025, we're to the United States. So they're basically going to say,
well, we can't sell the Macan. And I'm sure they're selling a crapload of those in the US,
the gas powered version. They are. And even though the US would let that version continue to slide
because they haven't imposed the cybersecurity mandate, they're not doing it. And they're going
to have this lol. And I imagine they're highest volume selling car for the next two years. It's
wild times. And I do have some sympathy for these manufacturers, like what you just talked about,
trying to figure out who they're going to be required to do what from Europe or the US and
juggling the development costs and the future prediction tough.
Yeah. And so remember, the other part of that puzzle was that the EV mandate of 2035
certainly played a role in that decision to not continue investing in the US Macan.
And you're 100% right. I mean, the crossover market in the US is one of the largest in the
world. And that's why I've always said they should be building those damn things here.
You know, much like Mercedes and BMW and, you know, have invested in manufacturing in the US,
Porsche should should really be thinking about that as well, if they're not already.
Yeah, no. And I guess that probably kind of is a good tease up this might, might, you know,
yes, please, which the quick one, I have two bits of news, all right. But the big one is GM is
just investing more into ice V eight power trains. Okay, they just made another big announcement
really in the last six months, I think they've announced over a billion dollars in investments
in ice and engine development. So that just goes to show you, hey, look, you know,
EVs are not going to take over the world. General Motors, one of the largest car manufacturers in
the world, who employ, you know, probably some of the best analysts and futurists around are saying,
hey, there still is a future for ice. So I think for enthusiasts like us, that's that's going to
be a great thing to hear. But that maybe tease up my next bit of news, which is a little bit more
troubling. Okay, the Beijing auto show is going on right now in China. And it is unbelievable. Okay,
I mean, they are showing world class products. Okay, they are. And then here's the thing that's
really kind of scary is they are queued up to produce affordable vehicles as well. Okay,
these all EVs. Or are they? No, not all these. In fact, you know, yeah. So actually listen to
these stats. Okay. In 2025, they sold 34.4 million vehicles in China. Okay, 50% were EVs. Okay, seven
million of those cars were exported. Okay. But they have a capacity. Okay, in China, the manufacturing
capacity for cars for vehicles is 60 million vehicles per year. Okay. We sold 16 million cars
in the US last year. Okay, 1616. So that's it. All new car sales added up were 16 million 16 million.
Yeah. And that's that's pretty high. Okay, that's pretty close to the peak that we've ever achieved.
And we're frankly going down right now. Okay. So here, China is doing more than double our sales.
Okay, so that just gives you, you know, kind of its gravity of how big the Chinese market is.
And see what's happened is they've been making these huge, huge investments. And some of it has
come from government subsidies. All right, like $230 billion. The government, the Chinese government
has invested in the automotive industry. And that's allowed them to invest in the EVs in battery
technology and frankly, manufacturing capacity. Okay. So the thing is that they're showing cars
like trucks, they're showing Jeep like vehicles. One of you saw also is that they look pretty
impressive. They're even showing sports cars. Right. And so they are in every space now, you
for the last 10 years, they've been hiring European American designers and engineers
to come over there and fix all their whacked out designs that they used to offer. Right.
You look at some of the cars from 10 years ago, they were like clown cars. I mean, just
or they're just straight ripoffs of, you know, first world cars. Right. And so, yeah. And so
what they've been able to do and then if you look at their labor costs are like 25% of what
they are here in the States. So now you've got the manufacturing capacity. You've got the ability
to produce, you know, more cars than I probably the world actually needs and it's being subsidized
by the government. So I mean, look, right now in this country, we're having a major issue,
like the average price of a new car is $50,000. Now imagine like, how does a middle class person,
you know, a family is, I think the average family income nowadays is, I think it's like $80,000.
Right. And, you know, so there are no affordable cars here. Well, these guys in China, they are
queued up. Okay. They are queued up to provide affordable cars because they have the manufacturing
capacity. They certainly have the technology. Right. Yeah. So it's going to be really interesting.
I think what's going on in China right now is kind of similar to what was happening in,
in the US in the early 1900s, where the auto industry was just booming and there was all
these car manufacturers and then over time it consolidates. Right. And so,
anyways, I, you know, look, I think what's going to happen here, okay, is that they
are so well positioned to produce affordable cars and we are all, you know, in this country
starting to realize that, hey, the prices are getting a little out of whack. We need to do
something here. And yeah, you know, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that a Chinese company buying
an American company and putting manufacturing capacity in place here in the US. Toyota has done
it. Right. Mercedes has done it. BMW You know, these car manufacturers overseas,
you know, so I think that's kind of what's going to happen. You know, the last thing we want is to
just take imports because that will certainly displace American jobs and particularly factory
worker jobs. But if you have Chinese companies buying factories and employing Americans here,
that is probably the right transition. Right. But it's going to be a very, very interesting thing
because the auto industry is very strategic for, for the US, you know, economy. So it'll be interesting
to see how all that stuff shakes out. Well, I feel like I've got a couple of thoughts come to mind
about this. Obviously, I'm no expert when it comes to global economy. And, and frankly, I don't
think you can have this conversation without bringing some politics into it. So anything I say
political, send your hate mail to Tim Harris, you know, we should bring him on just to like
stoke the political flame. But a couple of thoughts. China has almost 1.4, 1.5 billion people.
So it's pretty astounding that we did half of the number of cars that they did last year
with a quarter of the population, roughly. But to your point, the market is massive. The other
thought that I've had is, I mean, we just got done talking about this new cybersecurity regulation,
which is causing Porsche to discontinue their best selling car for two years until they can
retool. Because to your point, they were told by 2035, they weren't going to need that gas, McCann.
And so the amount of like political tug of war that is being had or done at the expense of these
auto manufacturers, I'm sure it's dizzying. very maddening and it's costing them a
ton of money, you know, with this General Motors and Porsche, everybody rolling back their EVs
and reinvesting back into the gas powered engines is like on one hand, I'm super sympathetic to
this. On the other hand, it's well, it's they have miscalculated what the market, what the
customers want. But the markets are different. You come to the States, especially with a president
in the office who said, no, we're going to drill, produce oil, and we're going to
like give the middle finger to all these people who are trying to force us into a certain direction.
Well, that's great until that guy gets kicked out of office in three years. And the next guy says,
no, let's fall in line perfectly with what China is doing. You know, by the way,
now we're way behind when it comes to this supposed, I'm not saying it's not, I'm just not an expert,
clean technology, you know, electric vehicles and and what have you. So, but when I think about the
cost of this stuff, Shenu, you're an engineer, you've built cars, you'd you develop parts.
The cost of R&D and development has to be the largest or one of if not the largest expenses
these guys have when they're developing new cars. Is that not true? Yeah, R&D is very,
very expensive. I mean, it's a very capital intense business, right? So the equipment
required to produce a car is quite significant as well. And so, yeah, it's look this constant going
back and forth. It's difficult. It's very, very difficult. And yeah, we'll see how this the next
few years are going to shake out. But yeah, anyways, yeah, we know we is this a good time for us to
actually plug the newsletter, the fourth round, because we have been writing some very interesting
articles. You know, I just wrote one recently about the Stellantis and you know, what I think is
going to happen industry wise there. But you know, you're the one that you've done recently too,
has been very, very good. So yeah, subscribing to the newsletter, please do because it's it's
we're putting some effort into to coming up with some good content there. Yeah, we are it's
fullthrottletalk.com put your email in hit submit. That's all you have to do. But yeah, it is crazy
to think China is just going to strong arm their industry. They're going to incentivize them and
they're going to tell their people this is where we're going period the end. China and in the US,
they're saying, Hey, we're trying to let the consumers decide. And we're we're a large market
for most of the manufacturers outside of China. And then you got Europe somewhere in the middle who's
trying to impose some of these regulations, even though, you know, that their largest customer
base in the US is not has not imposed those same regulations. So it is all very fascinating.
I can't imagine how stressful it is right now. And yes, if EV is the only is the inevitable future,
which many suspect that it is, I think that could be argued pretty strongly right now. But it's
looking very it's looking possible. China will be out in front. They will be ahead. And
you know, what's that going to mean for you and I? Well, Resto mods is what it means for me. I'm
going to buy old cars and try to make it more modern. So keep your analog sports car. If you
love driving, that's that's the the moral of the story, right? Or the lesson to be learned here is
is. Yeah, we it's not to plug your business, Shenu. But I've always said, you know, I think that is
the way forward for car enthusiasts. Now, maybe we'll get lucky and GM will get smart and put a
freaking manual in the Corvette and the C nine, or maybe some of that will start to surprise us
again and where it goes. But in the meantime, I look at it is take a 20 year old Lotus Elise
and make it as modern as you can make it without ruining the car. That's kind of what you did.
In fact, you're making it better. And it's still got the DNA of that old school driving analog
experience. But I can keep up with GT fours on the track. It's like, I think that is very possibly
the way forward. And maybe we can pin that as a future segment as well. Yeah, well, it's funny
because we do have a customer question that we're going to, you know, or sorry, a listener question
that we're going to answer later. That's kind of touches on this subject. So yeah, we'll come
back to that a little bit too. So, yeah, no, listen, I think, you know, I watched a video on
YouTube, this guy was talking about the Zora Corvette. And, you know, one of the things he
was speculating is like, well, what are they going to do? You know, maybe, you know, they'll
lighten the car, maybe they'll, you know, make it a more purest driving experience. I mean,
I don't think that's what's going to happen, you know, with the Zora. But it was fun to hear
someone else speculating that because I think that's what the market, I think we are going to see
some of these manufacturers coming back to that concept to say, hey, look, we got to make these
cars lighter. You know, I'm doing a bit of research. Another listener had asked a question
about the consumables on a C8 Corvette. So I've been doing a bit more research on that,
talking to a bunch of people that have them, that have been running them on track. And I'm
getting some interesting feedback. We'll come back and we'll answer that question too at a
future episode, right? Well, now that you're Mr. Callaway Corvette for the West Coast.
Well, yeah, it's starting in May. And that you're so plugged in at Spring Mountain,
where the Callaway driving school or the Corvette driving school takes place.
Right. We're going to start counting on you to shake these guys down for some intel.
So that's exactly where I want to get my information. And as well as, you know,
talking to a couple of the people that I know that have the cars and, you know, it's going to be
pretty interesting for sure. But all right, listen, is this the time to move on to this or that?
It is. Well, last week, we pissed some people off. We're still sorry about that. If we called out
your beloved 996 Turbo or your, your, your G-Body Targa or the other cars that we classified as
being overrated. Today, we're going to try to be a little bit more positive and talk about the cars
that we believe are underrated. We've each picked three. So, Shanee, why don't you start with your
first one? Tell us what it is and why it's underrated and maybe what people are buying
instead of this car like erroneously. Okay. Well, let me talk a bit about
my first choice, which is the original Boxster. We aligned one this weekend, or this week, sorry,
and I drove it the other day to see how everything was. And I was pleasantly surprised. We had actually,
this car had a rear control arm issue that we had rectified earlier. And then we had to,
we had to come back and dial the alignment in on this car. And going out and driving it,
this car's been modified, the engine's, you know, larger displacement, blah, blah, blah. But anyways,
the handling of the car was so sublime. I was really impressed, okay, with how fun it was. Now,
again, it's a bigger car. It's more comfortable, you know, because the funny thing is I put some
miles on a 11 RS that we're, that we have in the shop too. And it's like, okay, yeah, this is a go
cart, you know, and the Boxster is a bit more GT. But, you know, the handling of the car was really
good. I was, I think that, you know, for the longest time, it was, you know, people thought it was a
hairdresser's car or, you know, secretary's car, or it's not a real Porsche. I don't know. I say,
you know, BS to all that. I think it's a legit sports car. And I think when you look at, you
can buy these things for, I don't know, 15 grand to 20 grand, nice clean ones. Yeah, I mean, they're
legit, you know, if you want a sports car experience, an affordable sports car experience,
you know, earlier, we were talking about how, you know, unaffordable new cars are, well, there's,
luckily, there's still some really good, in my opinion, you know, cars like, like the Boxster.
And then, you know, this is one of the cars that helps save Porsche, too. So,
you know, whether you like the fried egg, you know, headlights or not, it's, it's, you know,
I think it's legitimately a fun car. You know, it's not going to tear your face off, you know,
but it's, it's a car that if it doesn't put a smile on your face, you know, you might want to
check your pulse. Yeah. Well, it's funny because about every summer, every spring, I start looking
for a convertible, like a small roadster. Since I sold my Miata, I've missed that at this time,
every single year. So it was a year or two ago, I went, I drove a 986 Boxster S and a Honda S2000
almost back to back. And I was talking to some buddies, one of them's a big Porsche guy,
he's like seven in his garage of different, you know, models. And I said, listen, the problem I
have with the 986 Boxster is that the Honda S2000 exists. And he said, well Blair, a nice one,
those are like double the cost. And it really dawned on me, like, you're totally right. The
fact that you can get this car for $15,000. And frankly, if it was set up well with the right
exhaust, I think most of these cars need to be modified just a little bit. Open the exhaust
on this flat six, these sound pretty darn good. Whereas, you know, an S2000 with a four cylinder
doesn't necessarily. But so I'm a little bit mixed on 986 Boxers, but they are when you consider
the cost, you can set these up really well, give yourself that brawny flat six engine sound.
And I haven't pushed one like you were just able to to speak for the handling characteristics.
But I think they're cool. And I agree. If anyone's turning their nose up at these,
for any reason other than, well, maybe old Porsche tax is going to get expensive,
or I chose a Miata over a 986, it's foolish to say, well, I'm not going to buy it because it's
the hairdresser, you know, the poor man's Porsche. That is silly because these are good cars.
Absolutely. So I'll go to mine first. Yes.
My first option. And this is a car I've almost bought so many times. I just need to buy one.
Yes. Not only to maybe send to you and give it the C5 treatment, but just so I can stop
like talking about it and almost buying these, which is a C5 Corvette Z06. I have driven multiple
of these. I've talked about them before as being one of the best budget track cars.
It's 400 horsepower in torque in an early 2000s car. I understand people don't love the interiors
of these. And my comeback is always, well, are you there? Are you, A, are you daily driving the car?
If you're not, why do you care? And B, are you buying this for the driving experience or not?
So every time I drive these, what I like about them, A, they're very comfortable.
I get in it and it is low. Yes. But it's wide and cushy. And it's like the anti-elise in that I
have so much space in these cars. But the shifters are good. There's texture to these early 2000s
Corvettes. And you can put a short shifter on it as well to make it even better from MGW.
You can put in it or Callaway, call up the Callaway specialist, put an exhaust on these
things. They sound insane. I just really enjoy kind of, it's, it straddles this GT and hardcore
sports car line really well with a bunch of texture and kind of dig the old school vibe
of it as well. I'm a big C506 fan and for 25 grand, you can buy a really clean car.
And so that's, that's certainly definitely one of the great benefits of these older Corvettes
is they depreciate like crazy. And so, and I think that that is the, that is a cool C5 for sure,
for sure. Yeah. Well, I'll, I'll move into my next one, which, you know, I talked a little bit
well a lot about Porsche last week. I also talked a little bit about the 718 Cayman base S, which
frankly is, yes, it's a really good car and I don't get disappointed by it because it's not
that expensive. But if you go back a generation to the 981, so I would have put up this picture
behind me, that was my first Porsche I've ever owned. Okay. And 981 Cayman S on some HRE wheels.
As you can see, I've got my track number on there because I had just finished a track day and
cleaned it all up. But these cars, I think are in such a great era of Porsche in that the interior
is fantastic. Driving position is fantastic. You get it with the Porsche Sport exhaust for the 981
generation, whether it's a base car or a GTS or GT4, they sound spectacular.
So why do you think this car is underrated then?
Well, you can, and some people might say it's not underrated. They hold their value extremely
well. They're 50 to 60K for a decent car. But every time I get out of a Cayman Box, they're
typically, especially this generation around this time, I always compare it to the 911. I think,
well, that was more fun. The Cayman Boxster is more fun. You've been, you may know
secrets about your feelings about mid-engine versus rear engine, but they are smaller. They are
mid-engine. It's right behind you. They've got a kind of short, they've got a shorter wheelbase.
They've got a playfulness to them that I think is more fun than most of the modern 911s that I've
driven. And there are some drawbacks to this car. I will save the long gearing discussion to a future
episode because that is hotly debated whether or not it matters. I'll go on record all day long
is saying it really matters. And that's the Achilles heel of this car. But you can fix that
to some extent with some money. I mean, it's going to cost you 10 grand, 10 plus thousand dollars.
But they are so good. And here is the other reason I think it's so overrated that I own this car.
And then I started having, I was tracking it and I thought, you know what,
why not upgrade to a GT4? More is better, which I'm not saying it's not. But I found a GT4
locally. I drove this Cayman S to meet the guy, jumped out of this into that GT4. And for most
the driving that is done in these cars, it took me a minute to notice the difference between the two.
They are not until I got it on track and the confidence that came from a much more aggressive
kind of capable car, suspension-wise and brakes and whatever.
The Aero is a kind of hidden benefit.
But they are not. This is a 3.4 liter. It makes 330 horse, I think, versus the GT4 of the generation
is 385 with a 3.8. But there's not a ton in it for the majority of driving that people do. So
I'm a fan of these cars. I want to talk long-gearing at some point about these cars,
because it's a problem. But I think even at 50-55 grand, this is an underrated Porsche.
Yeah, I'd agree. That's a good deal. It's everything that most of a sports car guys want.
You know, it looks great. It sounds great. It handles well. It's just such a good package,
for sure. I'm going to move on and put up my next one, which I think it's underrated. That's the
Hellcat. My argument is I think it's underrated by sports car guys like us. I never have considered
these muscle cars. I mean, the irony is I'm from Detroit, where there isn't a turn to save your
life, and that's the home of muscle cars, right? Well, the reason I actually drove a Hellcat and
realized, oh my god, this is actually kind of fun, a journalist came to visit us to drive my BAC
mono. And this is back, it's probably 2015-ish. And he had just got this press Hellcat to drive.
And so he came out in that, and then he jumped into my mono and I drove the Hellcat up to the
canyons with him. Sweet. So he could drive the mono and, you know, you talk about polar opposites
on the complete other end of the, you know, the sideway from both these two cars, right? And so
sports car guys, right? We want to drive a car that turns left and right and has fun, right?
But I will tell you, when you've got an excess of power, okay, and you've got the rumble and you
got the look, muscle cars are kind of cool, man. It's a cool tool for a particular use case, right?
And so I kind of give that car for me, you know, this underrated value and as a sports car guy,
it's not something that I would necessarily own. But I got to tell you, I did have fun driving it,
and I think it was pretty cool. I love the fact they came out with this car. I love the fact you
can get some options with some special red key and they get set up for drag racing with slicks and
smaller skinnier front tires and you know, you turn that key and it unlocks some additional
power apparently and it'll lift the front wheel on a drag strip. Well, if we do have any Mopar
or muscle car guys listening to this podcast, they're going to be listening right now and thinking,
what do you mean underrated? This is the most like, this is the holy grail of all American car
enthusiasts. But I think you're right in the circles we primarily run in. I'm not a single one of my
friends, not a single one of my friends has ever uttered this from their lips. I can't wait to
take delivery of my Hellcat, right? Like I've never heard one of any of my friends and I've got dozens
of car guy friends that are legit car guys, right? But we're all sports car guys and we all are in
the canyons. We're all in the racetrack. You know, we're driving cars in, you know, in a sporting
manner and not necessarily drag racing. But look, most of this country is flat. Most of this
country doesn't have canyons. Most of the country doesn't have mountains. And if you live in some
of those places, this is a great car because you're going fast in a straight line. Like,
what's the point in owning, you know, a Lotus in some parts of this country where there's not a
unless you go to the racetrack, right? I mean, it's what's interesting about this is you cannot
get the charger Hellcat with a manual, but you can get this challenger that you have up behind you
in a manual. And I've sat in one of those. I've never driven one, unfortunately. But how cool
is a big old burly thing with 700 horse and a manual trans manual lever that kind of
tilts a little bit in it. Like as a car guy, I don't know how you get into that and not think
I want to give this thing a go. And the other thing I'll say is so I was on social media the
other day watching, you know, nerdy stuff like the guys who were at the last NASA track day
here in Utah. And this guy was getting around really quick, posting quick times. And I saw the
Dodge gauge cluster and I thought, well, clearly he's in a Viper. And I think he placed in his class
and I thought, oh, well, this cool Viper. Well, then I start clicking on the guy's profile.
He's driving a challenger Scat Pack on track and he's going quickly. So didn't even have the full
fat Hellcat motor. He had the 392s with the Scat Pack, you know, upgrade, but in suspension and
brakes and whatever comes on that Scat Pack. But it's the Hemi, you know, motor. Anyway, so I think
there are more sporting intentions in this car than we or many of us give credit. So yeah, I would
love to give one of these things a go and form that opinion for myself. Yeah, absolutely. So what's
your third car? The last one I've got in my list, of course, I couldn't have the conversation without
throwing BMW in here. I put up the 2000, oh boy, 2007, 2008 BMW Z4. And I should know the model
designation. Somebody's screaming right now saying it's the E whatever, the Z4. But this is the Z4M
Coupe. Now we've talked about clown shoes. We've talked about I've owned one, you've driven them,
we like them. But that has the cult like following in the good cars, the values
reflect that those are not underrated. These cars, on the other hand, are totally slept on. And
so these have the S54, I would like to call it the, you know, the renowned S54 engine in it that
came out of the E46M3. This is the only car post like E46 that had that S54 engine that revs to
8000, makes 330 ish horsepower. But you get in this car, I just drove one recently, actually. And
it's got a little less rawness than the Z3M Coupe and the E46M3. It's slightly more refined,
but I'm talking slightly. But this has all the elements of a great driver's car. And in fact,
part of what I didn't love about my M Coupe, which is that I wanted to track a little bit. And that
car with rear trailing arm suspension and funky weight distribution was not set up well to drive
hard. These on the other hand are, they're very stiff. They're more capable. They've got great
little classic timeless interior in it. And you know, it's the, it's the classic recipe,
high revving inline six BMW with the dynamics to back it up. So you can track these cars,
they look gorgeous, and you can get them all day long for like 30 K. And there's a lot of times
when I see people and the stuff that they're buying, I don't under, for 234 times
the cost. I don't understand why these aren't, you know, more universally beloved.
Well, listen, man, I love that car. I don't think it looks as crazy as the Z3 in a clown shoe. I think
the styling actually became a bit more elegant and something that, you know, I really like quite a
bit. So it lost a little bit of that, that crazy edge. Yeah. You know, that the clown shoe had
and it veered towards something more elegant, you know, and so, but I love that car.
I think it's certainly a legit cool sports car. Well, these occupy a really interesting space
in the BMW lineage because it's also kind of Frankenstein-ish. It's very of the E90 generation.
So if you think of an E90 M3 and you think about the interior and the way it feels and
the way those cars drive, but it's got an old school engine in it going back to 2001 with the
E46 M3, which is like, there's a big delineation between everything. Now, some guys say it's older
than this, but E46 to E90, very big difference. We both decided last week we like E90s, especially
the M3, but we're talking huge difference. Go drive an E46 M3 and an E90 M3 back to back.
They are very different. There's a big jump in what feels like modernity and refinement,
even though it's not all lost by then. This car kind of bridges that gap in a weird way that I
think is really cool. So what do you have? I'm interested to hear about this. I don't know where
you're going. I don't know this car. So yeah, and that's why I brought this one up. Okay. So it's a
Ford Mustang SVO. So this is Fox body. Yes. So this is, this is the 80s, man. Okay.
Yeah. I was, I was walking around a dye person. Yeah. 1981. Yeah. This car came out at the same
time as the Mustang GT, which, you know, five liter V8. This thing had a turbocharged four
cylinder in it. Wow. Yeah. The styling, it had this asymmetric front hood scoop. It had this
by wing, you know, rear spoiler. It was the Euro version of a Mustang effectively. Okay.
Whereas the GT was the drag racing muscle car version. So Ford had the guts to come out with
this thing and offer it. It didn't do terribly well. Okay. Because it was more expensive.
And a four cylinder. Yeah. Well, one of my, you know, grade school friends that I went to school
with Dennis Korn, his dad, Bob, and I didn't even know Mr. Korn's first name until in recent years,
I should say, but he co-founded Roush with Jack Roush. Those guys used to Mr. Korn and Dennis,
they used to drag race Pinto's, but they had one of these SVO's and I remember it sounds like a
K-Vam drag race. Oh yeah. No. Yeah. Exactly. Drag racing Pinto's. They soup those things up big time,
but anyhow, I, that was the first time and I remember, you know, like I'm devouring road and
track and car and driver in that era. And this car was, you know, the journalists were saying,
yeah, this is a really great handling sports car, blah, blah. But, you know, it
was just, you know, the positioning of it, you know, it just never really caught on. So, sadly,
it didn't last for very long, but kind of like the Miracur XR4 Ti, if you, if you know that car.
Oh, you don't know that car? Oh my God. Well, I should have put that one up. You know,
one of my fraternity brothers who actually bought my E36M3, he had an XR4 Ti Miracur,
but it was another Lincoln Mercury brand to address Europeans, you know, sensibilities or tastes.
Wow. Well, it looks like you can pick these things up really clean for 2025 grand. And
I imagine now the question is, will this thing run? Old turbo scare me. I've got one in my garage
and when I say old, I'm talking 1994, but, you know, turbo. Reliability wasn't, wasn't part of our
question, right? You know, it's like, you know, Tim isn't here to throw in those little twists.
Like, you know, I didn't have to worry about putting a 300 pound dog in the back of there or
anything like that. No, that, that is, but listen, Fox Body Mustangs really have their place. And I
think they're super cool. And, you know, these are, feel like prime candidates again, to do what
I was just talking about, get a Fox Body, put some money into that, instead of going to spend
obscene amounts of money on some computer on wheels that goes zero to 60 in 2.2 seconds,
but you feel none of it. And what, what, what the future just in fact might be,
I'm Fox Body has got to go in that category. And now when I go for the 2.3 liter four cylinder
turbo of the SVO, probably not, but it's super unique nonetheless. Well, I will tell you,
if you go to your local cars and coffee, you will be the biggest hero for every 60 to 70 year old
guy that's there. So, and a few of us, and a few of us 50 year olds too. Shout out to the old dudes
and Shanu, thanks for considering them as you, as you made your selection. But
well, hopefully we've made fewer enemies this go round. We would love to know from you all,
what cars we weren't thinking about. I, I think the Lotus Elise is incredibly underrated,
Mr. Elise Shanu, you probably couldn't, you probably couldn't make that selection. But
you know, there are so many that we, we could talk about those were the ones that came to my mind
most. Yeah, I think, you know, there, there, we have lived through this wonderful, wonderful 30
years of just amazing sports cars. And, and so, yeah, it's funny. I could have certainly gone,
you know, much further with my list. But, you know, I thought, ah, let me see what,
what kind of obscure stuff can I come up with here? Right. Well, I think, I think you did well.
And I agree, sadly, the Boxster, I'm a little mixed on the 986 because there's some other stuff I'd
take over it. But, you know, you, but I've owned Porsches and a lot of guys just want to get in
the brand and have that experience. That's exactly it. Don't let anybody tell you that's not worthy
because, you know, that kind of stuff is, is silly. But we've got a listener question before we wrap
up. So a few episodes ago, we were heavy into Lotus for a little bit. Part of that was driven by
where my interests were at the time and obviously who you are. But we had somebody ask us about
the fear of getting into Lotus relative to Porsche, for example. And I think that,
you know, motivates a lot of people to steer Porsche over Lotus. And we talked about with
your experience being very relevant. The powertrains are Toyota. Don't be scared. Go for it. But
somebody else named Sean, he wrote back in and said, Hey, a couple of podcasts back. You mentioned
Lotus is reliable due to its powertrain being from Toyota. But the majority of issues I've
heard about are electronic in nature. What should my level of concern be from that standpoint?
Well, I think that most of those little gremlins are kind of happening with the newest cars,
like the Amira. You know, there's lots of stories, lots of people that are having these
issues with their cars. Some guys going on the racetrack with the automatic transmissions,
having some issues there, more so than the manual transmission cars. So, you know,
look, when you look at what Lotus have tried to do with the Amira, they've tried to,
you know, reach out to a broader audience. They really, you know, with that car trying to bring
in BMW, you know, Porsche, you know, Supra type clients, right? And provide a car that's a little
bit more accessible, you know, because it's more comfortable because it has more luxury,
it has more technology, you know, your phone connects and all sorts of things that require
added bits of electronic complexity. And I don't know that that's Lotus' wheelhouse, okay?
I don't know if anything electrical is in the wheelhouse of any English car company. But
yeah, and so what I would always say is if you're going to, you know, the good news with an Amira
as an example, it has a factory warranty on it. So, you know, as long as you're close to a dealer,
you should be able to get things resolved. You know, the cars are still relatively simple
in comparison to most, you know, most cars. Yeah. Well, but I see a lot of guys complaining
about just that saying, I don't have a Lotus dealer close by. So I'm terrified. And I think,
now you brought it up to me before, and I think on this show, that these are not
spaceships, you know, these are largely straightforward, easy enough cars to work on.
You would know you've had a lot of them, especially the older ones torn apart in your garage.
But so, you know, I do wonder to what extent Guy lives in Nebraska somewhere,
wants an Amira, feels like all he can buy is, you know, mustangs and chargers, challengers,
but he wants an Amira. That there's part of me, that is a real issue because if you do have it
under warranty, well, then you want to go to a dealer. Right. But the question is now, and maybe
an Avora GT and Avora 400 makes more sense for the guy in Nebraska, because it's not under warranty
anyways. And I don't know, to your knowledge, could that guy find some help with respect to
little nagging electrical kind of systems issues from a, it's got to be some kind of European
mechanic or somebody who's very familiar with more of an exotic car, can they work on that?
Can they help this guy? Yeah. Well, look, if I live someplace where there wasn't a, you know,
a dealer for the car that I'm buying nearby, then I'd have to make sure that there is a
mechanic who's comfortable with the car. Otherwise, I would take it off my list. Okay.
I wouldn't be considering it. It just, that's just, it doesn't matter if it's a Lotus or frankly,
if it's a Porsche. Okay. I wouldn't buy a modern car if I wasn't close to a dealer. Okay. They're
all modern cars are having all sorts of electrical issues, sensor related problems,
because these cars have gotten so complicated. So yes, if you go back a generation like an
Avora as an example, that would be a smart strategy because most of those issues have
been kind of figured out. And generally speaking, you should be able to get that taken care of.
Parts availability becomes the one challenge. But if you're buying a car like this,
it's not your daily driver. I mean, I certainly would never buy one of these cars as my daily
driver unless it had a warranty when I was close to a dealership. Okay. Yeah. And so that is a big,
big, you know, handicap that Lotus, you know, has to deal with. And that is the lack of a good
distribution and dealer network. So yeah, I mean, I think that if you want a modern Lotus
and you're not close to a Lotus dealer, then maybe you go back a generation to like the Avora,
certainly the Elise exige will be a much more reliable, much easier one to deal with and maintain.
Yeah. But if you're considering an Amira, just make sure you're within striking
business of a Lotus dealer. Well, we like to, you know, seeing butterflies and rainbows about
these things say to, Hey, but he's got a real point. I think this has always kind of held Lotus
back. If nothing else, just the support dealer network support. And you brought up an interesting
point. Lotus has been trying with the Amira to broaden their market to attract customers from
some of these more mainstream BMW Porsche and so on brands. I think they've successfully done that.
I would be curious to know there's a Lotus gathering coming up, you know, in my backyard
that in September, we may get a chance to ask some of those questions if there are some representatives
from Lotus there. That's what fascinates me to know. It feels to me now I'm newer to the brand.
It feels to me like an overwhelming success, the Amira product at, you know, broadening their
desirability and attracting new customers. Would you agree with that?
100%. I mean, I think they definitely have a good car on their hands. Okay. It is a car that is
differentiated from its competition in my opinion. Okay. It's a pure driving experience. It looks
wonderful. I think they've nailed it. Okay. But the problem is it's a sports car and all sports cars
have a shelf life. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people that are attracted to the latest fancy
shiny object. And as soon as there's another new shiny object, you know, their attention's, you
know, drawn to that and they shed the one that they have. So, you know, I think we've talked
about this in the past, you know, with cars, you know, sports cars, after the first few years,
you know, then the demand drops off a cliff. And if you don't show new things, it's just hard to
keep the momentum. I mean, look at the C8 Corvette, this new Grand Sport introduction,
you know, six months before that, the ZR1 and ZR1X introductions, you know, they're doing
things to keep the excitement going for a car that's been introduced a few years ago and they
still have two more years of life in that car. Yeah. You know, this is where Lotus is facing a
significant challenge because what is new, you know, that the new car was the AMG paddle shift
four-cylinder turbo, you know, Yamera, which is arguably lighter and has more potential, but
it's going to be difficult. It's going to be difficult. I talked to an Amira owner and maybe
off camera, I'll tell you who it was. Somebody would be interesting for us to chat about,
but he's out of state and we got connected and I chatted with him about it and he said,
listen, he's got a big car collection. He's got lots of stuff, including Porsches, whatever. And
he said, I will never sell this Amira and he's tracking it. He's modified it, set it up a little
better for that. He said with one exception and that's if they come out with the like GT version,
like the Evora GT, if they come out with a more hardcore variant in this thing, said, I've already
told my wife, I love this Amira. It stays unless they do what you just described, which I think
they're going to have to do. Yeah, they will be pressing that, but he loves this thing. And I've
talked to multiple other Amira owners. One of my good friends is owned over 69 11s, not Porsches,
9 11s. He just bought an Amira like a month ago and he said, Blair, yes, I've had a few
electrical issues, check engine light pops on or this, you know, but he said they always go away.
And I know multiple guys who have had that experience. But he just said, you cannot,
he got it for under $100,000 used, said, you cannot beat the experience of this car for $90,000.
And so, you know, to put a bow on this discussion for Sean, I think these are valid concerns.
But I also look at this as, well, I don't believe any of these will be more than just the occasional
headache. But what are the alternatives? Now, yes, you could buy a Z4M coupe and more people
should be doing that. But like very different car, you know, but if you want the Amira experience
or close to that exotic modern, you know, that manual that what else are you going to buy? And
now most people just run to Porsche, but my experience lately has been with modern Porsches.
The Amira is a much more interesting car, an interesting car to drive than most, if not all
modern Porsches. So putting up with some of these little niggle things that, you know, are obnoxious,
like, well, the alternative is go buy a less interesting car, which I'm not hating on guys
who do that. But how bad do you want to be in a driver's car? Now, it's got to speak to you,
but it does most people if they can get past that. No, you just sum that up pretty good. And I think
that's a good bow to put around this whole subject. But well, yeah, it's been fun as always,
you knew. Absolutely Blair. Thanks for the time, Tim. We appreciate the dispatch. And, you know,
I think to summarize it all, guys, get out and drive your cars. Let's all drive. Have fun in
the canyons, get out there and just tear it up. See ya. Thanks. Yeah, guys.
About this episode
New-car pricing gets traced to global scale and regulation: China’s massive EV build-out and government backing are framed as a path to cheaper cars, while Europe’s cybersecurity rules are already reshaping Porsche’s lineup. Back in the shop, the hosts swap stories about alignment work, curb feelers, and a severely degraded clear bra on a Lotus Elise—plus why dealer access matters for modern electronics. The episode closes with enthusiast “what to do next” ideas like restomods and value track builds.
The automotive world is changing faster than most people realize — and not all of it is good for drivers.
In this episode of Full Throttle Talk, we break down what’s really happening behind the scenes:
• Why naturally aspirated engines may be disappearing
• How government regulations are reshaping the industry
• Why new cars are now averaging $50,000+
• The growing influence of China on global car production
• And what all of this means for enthusiasts
We also get into real-world driving experiences, underrated cars, and why analog driving might be more valuable than ever.
If you care about where cars are heading — and what’s worth buying now — this episode is for you.
👉 More content: fullthrottletalk.com
