Why Don’t We Like Fords?
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Concept
classic cars
Classic cars are older cars that people collect because they look cool, have a special history, or can be worth a lot of money.
Term
wooden dashboards
Some old cars have dashboard panels made of wood or wood‑like material, which gives them a classic look.
Concept
auction prices
When classic cars are sold at auction, people pay a lot of money for them. The price shows how rare or desirable the car is.
Car
Ford Escort Mark II
The Escort Mark II is a small car made by Ford in the 1970s. It was known for being light and easy to drive fast, which made it a favorite among car enthusiasts.
Term
right hand drive
Right‑hand drive means the steering wheel is on the right side of the car, so you drive on the left side of the road. It’s common in places like the UK and South Africa.
Concept
modern classic
A modern classic is a newer car that people now love and want to own or fix up because it looks cool and works well.
Brand
Rostar wheels
Rostar makes special wheels that are lighter and stronger, which can improve a car’s handling and look.
Term
wind up windows
Wind up windows are the old-fashioned way to open and close car windows by turning a knob or lever, instead of using a button.
Car
MGB
The MGB is a small, fun car from the 1960s that many people still enjoy driving today. It’s famous for being lightweight and easy to handle.
Car
Cortina 1.6 GL
The Cortina is a small car from Ford that many people used as their first car. It’s known for being simple and easy to keep running.
Car
RS2000
The RS2000 is a small, fast car made by Rover. It has a light body and a powerful engine for its size.
Car
Ford Capri
The Ford Capri is a fun, sporty car that was made in the UK. It looks cool and can be driven fast, especially the older versions.
Car
Mondeo
The Mondeo is a mid-sized car from the 1990s that many people used for family trips. It was more modern than its predecessor, the Sierra.
Car
Ford Zephyr
The Ford Zephyr is a classic British car from the 1960s and ’70s. It was a comfortable family vehicle with a spacious cabin, often used as a daily driver.
Car
Ford Sierra
The Ford Sierra is a large family car from the 1980s. It was popular in Europe and offers good space for passengers.
Car
Chevrolet Cavalier
The Chevrolet Cavalier is a small, budget‑friendly car that was popular in the 1990s. It’s easy to find parts and service.
Car
Ford Granada
The Ford Granada is a roomy family car from the 1970s and 80s. It was popular in Europe and offers plenty of space for passengers.
Car
Rover SD1
The Rover SD1 is a stylish British car from the late 1970s. It was one of the first cars to use a sleek, aerodynamic shape.
Car
Rover P6
The Rover P6 is a classic British car from the 1970s and '80s. It has a boxy look, runs on the back wheels, and was popular in the UK.
Car
MG Capri
The MG Capri is a small, fast car from Britain that was popular in the 1970s and early 1980s. It has a rear‑wheel drive layout, meaning the engine powers the back wheels.
Car
Plymouth Cavalier
The Plymouth Cavalier is a small, inexpensive car sold in America during the 1980s and early 1990s. It was easy to maintain.
Car
Hillman Minx
The Hillman Minx is a family car made in Britain in the 1960s and 1970s. It has its engine at the back, which gives more space inside.
Term
rear-engine layout
In a rear‑engine car, the engine sits at the back instead of the front. This can give better grip on slippery roads and more room inside.
Term
synchromesh gearbox
A synchromesh gearbox lets you shift gears smoothly by matching the speed of the gears. It prevents the gears from grinding when you change speeds.
Car
Mini
The Mini is a small, popular car from Britain that was very common in the 1960s and 1970s. It’s known for its clever use of space and distinctive look.
Company
Rootes Group
Rootes Group was a company in Britain that made cars, including the Mini, during the 1960s and 1970s.
Term
rally engine
Rally engines are built to be very powerful and tough, so they can handle rough racing tracks without breaking.
Car
Stag Driver
The Stag Driver is a classic American muscle car from the late 1970s, famous for its big engine and unique look.
Term
cigar lighters
A cigar lighter is a little electric device in cars that lets you light cigarettes or cigars without needing a match. You press it, and it heats up to create a flame.
Brand
Mercedes-Benz
Mercedes-Benz is a famous German car company that makes fancy, high‑end cars. They’re known for good safety and smooth driving.
Car
Citroen SM
The Citroën SM was a fancy small car from the 1960s that had smooth lines and special tech for its time.
Brand
Citroën
Citroën is a car company from France that makes cars with unique and sometimes quirky features. They’re famous for creative ideas like putting the stereo in a weird spot.
LIVE
There's a plane droning over me, actually. Can you hear that? Oh no. There's somebody droning in my head for that. The tire kickers, classic car chat with Max and Matt. Hello there and welcome to the latest pearls of wisdom from two bloats who know absolutely nothing. It's the tire kickers and thankfully so far talking about classic cars is still tax-free. In this episode, Matt and I have just one thing in common.
I don't like forts, but are we missing out on the Blue Oval's finest? The tire kickers. Also, imp. Huh? What is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Well that's according to you. Say it again. So we'll go to war over whether the poor hillman imp should be crushed or caressed. Plus classic cars are all about the looks but what about the interiors? Is it time to give the wooden dashboards some love? So buff up your walnut and get that cockpit shining. It's episode 45 of the tire kickers.
The independent podcast awards. This is the tire kickers. Now, it's not often that I agree with you. Well, never to be honest because you're wrong. Sorry, sorry. Just rewind to say that again. I'm going to slightly agree with you on this one briefly. You and I do share one thing. And that is that Ford's leave us a bit cold. They're a bit met a bit vanilla. I always, for example, take a golf GTI over an XR3i, the Rover SD1 over a Granada,
which a bus rather than driver Sierra. Lots of people love them, but I'm from a BL household and Ford's have never really lit my fire. And to be honest, I'm not sure why.
Well, I think there is something about what you grew up with because I grew up riding in the back of those kooky citrons like GSAs and BXs with those up and down suspension. So I can't get that excited about the core teamers and comprise that my mate's dad's had. I did own a fiesta once in the 90s. Yeah, it was fine. It was one of the new ones. And it was fine for daily.
Honestly, I can't have ever thought about it. You know, a day after I sold it. So there was no kind of emotional connection with it.
Yeah, but people are now buying old fast forwards for more money than they spend on a house. Now, remember, there was that mark to white 2.escoote, 1800 RS, at historic Sinjilai, that went for 278,000 pounds.
Those 1990s escort RS Cosworths are going for well over 100,000. And at the NEC Classic Motor Show, there was a rally mark on Ford Focus that went for 393,000. Now, OK, it had been used by Colin McCray, but that's really rare for our e-money for a Ford.
To be fair, the auction is, I'll say those particular ones you mentioned there are kind of one off type things. I mean, I think the escort that people were fighting over, there was two guys from the Middle East and they both wanted it and it was kind of a battle to get it.
But it is fair to say that the Fords are going for big money now, aren't they? I mean, maybe we're just being a bit mean about them or maybe a bit stupid, actually. I mean, lots of people love Fords. So maybe we should take another look at them.
Well, let's pull some up that are advertised on the internet at the moment and see see what we're doing wrong. I mean, let's have a look at this one. I'll stick to something screen there. So mark to Ford Escort RS 2000.
Now, that's one of the cabinet ones that's one people want. I mean, that's actually like it. I do like those escorts as a mark two. So it's a good looking car.
It's the two door and it's got the Drupes Newt style RS 2000. No, so I mean, I don't mind RS 2000s, but they're going for big money, aren't they?
Yeah, I mean, this has got a bit of interest because it's a coupé because it's not just a run of a mill family shopper. It has got a bit more to it.
And it probably have a bit of poke in it and it'd be a bit fun to drive, wouldn't it? Yeah, the two liter engines on these mark twos were good.
And also they were so light. They're really light at the back. You could spin these around in circles for hours and hours and hours.
I mean, the RS 2000s, you know, nice car. I mean, yeah, it's an okay drive. It's quite a nice drive. I still don't get why it's quite so expensive.
I mean, this one here, it's from South Africa. So it's slightly an old one. It's not quite the UK spec. It's got the wrong wing mirrors.
But it's 35,000 pounds for a 1980 right hand drive Ford Escort Mark to RS 2000. Now that is a lot of money, you know, 35 grand can buy you a lot.
Escort RS 2000. I mean, it's nice, but is it that nice? I mean, it's got a spoiler on the back. I suppose outside I'm just looking at the interior.
Yeah, I mean, it's got a rev counter speed or gearbox, a couple of switches. That's it. And, you know, they do, you know, going back to the original point about the RS 2000s,
they do drive quite nicely. But that is huge amount of money for a shopping escort underneath, which is what it is basically.
No, okay. And what's that up for as well? What's what? 35,000.
Yeah. So that's a lot of money. That's Austin Haley money, isn't it? Or is Jaguar E type money now?
Yeah. Which, which would you rather have? I think it comes back to the thing we get, and this is going to probably be the summary of this is that if you grew up with Ford,
if you grew up lasting after these things, if these were on your bedroom walls, you revered them, then 35 grand, you're crimp and say to get it because that's the car you want to us to you and I, you know, VL and Citroen kids, then this really doesn't have that emotional connection.
Don't give away the ending before we've got that. This is like somebody came out and tells telling you what's happening in a film while you're just watching it. Oh, don't get attached to that character.
Well, you get killed by the end of it. I don't know. Just could you just go fast to sleep.
Right. Let's have another one there. Have you got one? What about a cool teen or something?
Well, this is the problem. You see the problem with these high end prices for this stuff as it drags up the prices of the really boring stuff.
So here's Exhibit A, a boring boring 1980 mark, five Cortina 1.6 GL. Now this is so dull. You barely see it if it drove past you. Now this, if you put this, I'll put this on your screen now.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Blue Cortina Mark, five, four door 1.6. It's about as boring as it can get, isn't it?
These were boring in the day and they're boring now as classics. It's a GL. So it might have a little bit of extra walnut in it and a little bit of extra spec.
But because the Ford prices are so high, this is being dragged up. So I don't know whether you can see the price yet, but I'm going to tell you it is 13,991.
So pretty much 14 grand for a Mark 5 Cortina.
Yeah. And these were, you know, for kids like us, 70s, kids like us in the 80s. These were the cars that we grew up there on every street corner.
I won't know these, these Cortina Mark fives. And you know, every, every other mate's dad had one. I found being a side Ford interesting, but, but not for very long.
You can't have found that one interesting. I'm just looking at it. I mean, again, you know, it's just bland Ford.
It is bland, isn't it? Yeah.
There's nothing in there of any interest.
No, I can't. When I pop the garage door up and get excited about this, no, not really. I mean, I know this, let's be fair because I think it sounds like we've been a bit snobby about this.
You know, if you had this in your garage, it's going to be much more interesting than, you know, a modern classic. For me, it would be, I'd be, I'd be much more interested in going around in this and driving around.
But I don't think I'd be that excited about that. It's a G L K. It's got the Rostar wheels, I think.
What did you get in the G L? Did you get like tape cassette player or something? You must have got something. It's wind up windows.
Who got electric windows? No, it's not. I don't think so. No, I wind up. No, it's wind up windows.
I mean, you've got the slightly bigger wheels. You've got the passenger door mirror, headrests. And you've got a radio, I think.
What it was like here, wasn't it? It was those days where they listed passenger door mirror and body styling, something or other as like an extra wheel.
The wheels still have wheels. They're just little the styling cues. I just, it just doesn't spark anything in me.
I don't get excited about that. And as you say, this is 14 grand. Again, you know, contextualize this.
The four-the-money, you could be sitting in an MGB or a Triumph stag or, you know, something a bit more interesting than this.
Or a nice old Mercedes or something like that. For that money, that 10 to 20 grand. There's a lot of competition in that.
Easily, you're in a 1, 2, 3, 2, 30. Yeah.
Well, all of a sudden, it's one. Yeah, 70s one. Just something with a bit of soul to it.
I can't imagine that, you know, you think it, wow, you know, all I want in my life is a, you know, Cortina.
Was it a 1.6? 1.6 GL.
No. But if that was, I mean, it's price, isn't it? If that was four grand, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Yeah, you can have a bit of a laugh in that. But 14,000.
And I think this is the core problem for me with the forwards. Is this Cortina? Is this is not really, you know, it's a classic car because it's old.
But I don't think people aspire to it because I'm not sure people aspire to these in the period, did they?
And certainly, I don't think you aspire now to owning a blue Cortina 1.6 GL.
Well, I was going to say, if it was four grand, then that's a good gateway car to get into classic cars, isn't it?
You could run around and enjoy that. You could, you could get a tater for it, see if it's for you.
And then you could get an appetite to get something a bit more off the beaten track.
But when it's 14,000, you've got to argue that actually there's better stuff around.
Have we got anything else that we can look at?
Yeah, let's have a look at the Capri. Everybody loves the Capri.
This is the same year as that Cortina, actually, a 1980 Capri 3.0.
So this is the very top of the tree of Capri's. And this is quite nice.
For those people at roughly our age, if you think of the professionals,
Doyle drove the RS2000 we talked about, and then Bodi drove this Capri 3.0.
So they are quite nice.
And I don't mind Capri's, to be honest.
I think early Capri's Mark 1s and Mark 2s, and these early kind of Mark 3s are OK.
But they hung around too long these Capri's. They made them for too long.
So 3.0. So all the sunroof engines nice.
Wheels on a Capri always look a bit small, but here's the kicker, 38,000 pounds.
Wow. 38,000 pounds. A 1980 silver Capri.
It's clean underneath, but it is a nice car.
And it does.
It should be.
It's too fresh out for that.
Yes, Ali.
It is a nice white. It's tricked out. It does look sporty.
But again, it's just that looking at it. I don't get the chills.
I don't want to jump inside it and drive it because it's just that forward thing.
I think it is because it was so every man.
Although the Capri was, was the pin up.
I mean, the Capri was quite posh, but the problem with the Capri is by the 1980s,
certainly by 1980 and later.
I think the Capri carried on to 1986.
You know, these kind of sports cars have been overtaken by hot hatches, you know,
GTIs, Peugeot 205s, Golf GTIs, that kind of stuff.
That was hot.
If you were still driving a Capri in the 1980s, to be honest, you were a bit of a knob.
Because it was just an old car.
It was kind of an old car harking back to the 60s and 70s.
People weren't into those kind of sports cars.
They found the hot hatches were sexier.
So the older Capri's, I mean, it just should have been put out to pasture a lot earlier.
It overstayed its welcome.
And this 1981 is nice, but I reckon that's probably the last year I'd have a Capri.
After that, it was just a bit naff.
The only Capri I kind of gets me excited is the Mark 1.
Because I just think it just looks so retro.
But I wouldn't, you know.
You see, that's exactly the point.
Because the Mark 1 was actually a groundbreaking design, wasn't it?
It was an interesting design.
By the time you got to this kind of like Mark 3, it was boring.
And like a lot of Ford's in the 1980s, they were just dull.
You know, the Cortina Mark 3, the Coke bottle Cortina, was a nice-looking car.
You get to that Mark 5 we talked about, boring.
And so lots of this is a problem with Ford.
Is that their cars just got more boring and more boring and more boring.
And then you got to the Sierra, you got to the Mondayo, you got to even to the Focus.
You know, some of them drove quite nicely.
But very boring, plain vanilla, mere designs.
Well, it might come as a surprise to anybody listening to this.
But, you know, what do we know?
You know, because probably chances are here, we're probably talking nonsense.
Because there is a market for Ford's.
They go like hotcakes in terms of sales.
They are, you know, fair to say that an 80s or 70s Ford
creates much more excitement these days than a 60s car.
Because there's a market for it.
I mean, they are still pin up cars for a lot of people.
You know, I mean, you look at the NEC,
we recently, the NEC, that loads of them about, aren't there?
There was loads of cars.
And we posted that shot of the Arthur daily stand.
And, you know, there was, there was Ford's on there.
And that, no, people were still asking about that Cortina, the brown Cortina on there.
So, I just think we're not the market for it.
I mean, I'm going to give you some quick fire choices here.
Because I have had Ford's in my past.
I've had a Mark III coat bottle Cortina years and years ago.
Right.
I had a Mark IV zodiac, which you've got to be quite a Ford nut to know what that looks like.
But it's a big kind of looking car.
Looks like a Zephyl looking car.
Yeah, exactly.
And then I had a Mark III Granada estate for a while when I was, when I first moved to London.
I did too.
But, yeah, and it was, you know, it was a bit vanilla.
I remember getting in that and you could engage reverse or get out, walk around the car,
and then get back in the car by the time reverse actually engaged.
Because it was so knackered.
Anyway, here's some quick fire choices about Ford's versus others.
See which you would prefer.
So, here we are.
Capri versus MGBGT.
Oh, MGBGT, I think.
Sierra versus a Cavalier.
That's not much of a choice.
I'll go Cavalier.
Cavalier.
Cavalier.
Okay.
Granada versus, say, a Rover SD1.
Thought you were going to say P6 then.
I did want to cross down because I knew you'd have, yeah, knew you wouldn't have the P6.
Actually, asking you the question.
Granada versus the Rover P6 or SD1.
Rover P6.
Because it's really.
I don't like him.
We've crushed him on a previous episode, but it's more interesting.
True.
Eskort versus the Golf.
When people talk about golf, so Germany glays over.
Okay.
I'll upgrade it.
XR3 versus GTI.
XR3.
Oh.
Okay.
Fiesta versus a Mini.
Mini.
What about you?
If I read that list to you, Capri, MGBGT.
MGB.
Sierra Cavalier.
And Boss.
Now it's time for Crash or Correst.
And this time around, it's the Mini rival with the engine out back the Hillman M.
These are the eight great hymns.
With a super-modern aluminium engine at the rear.
With Synchro Mesh on all four gears.
With independent suspension on all four wheels.
Vanuverable, manhandable, comfortable.
The windows roll down.
The rear seat falls down.
The rear window lifts up.
The eight great hymns.
From the exciting range of roots cars.
All part of the new deal from roots.
Test drive one.
At your local roots dealer.
Now I'd forgotten hymns even existed.
But in the 60s, they were a genuine rival to the Mini.
A small Scottish-made car to take on the world.
At Newsflash, it didn't.
So should we round up all the survivors and recycle them into something more useful?
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Hold on a minute.
Let's give you a bit of quick history.
This was, of course, the roots group.
Small economy car from 1963 to 1976.
As we mentioned, the engine wasn't out front.
It was out the back.
And it used a re-worked rally engine.
I think an aluminium engine block.
And a cylinder head.
Which had a bit of a reputation for overheating.
Shock horror.
British car.
60s, 70s.
Now, the thing about it is, it's one of these classic British car stories,
where all the component parts have come together to sort of bust the plan, basically.
It was made at the Linwood plant in Scotland.
Now do you know why it was built there, Max?
There was probably a government grant or something, wasn't it?
Exactly.
Because roots was based in the Midlands, wasn't it?
That's right.
The roots was based in Coventry.
Now here's to his problem number one.
Roots was based in Coventry, but they wanted a government grant.
The government said, you can have a grant.
You've got to build it somewhere where they need the work.
So they picked near a ship building plant in just north of Glasgow, Linwood.
So they had people building a car who'd never built cars before.
They were all shipbuilders.
So it kind of looked all right in paper, but the management was 300 miles away.
So there's problem number one.
So they started knocking these things out.
And it sort of went okay to start with.
But it was kind of born out of necessity.
It came after the Suez crisis and that it needed for small cars.
But it was a real-world drive car when front-wheel drive cars were just coming into fashion.
And everything about it just didn't really work.
It was basically gunning for the mini market, wasn't it?
Yeah, and that's its main problem.
It's this problem in the past and its problem now.
The mini was a much better small economy car,
which is why they made five million millis versus half a million imps.
Now I hadn't thought about these either until I saw one in the summer.
And there was a couple of them and you just think well they were a bit lumpy-dumpy.
And then I remember that my mate and my dad's had one.
We hadn't had one part in a garage for a week or so.
And I remember thinking it was sort of kooky car then.
But I looked at this one in the summer and I just thought well I got chatting to the owner
and it was a sort of young girl who she was about 20s.
And the family were into imps and she just was really enthusiastic about it.
She said I use it as a daily car, it's really fun.
And you look at it again and you think it's not the prettiest thing.
And I don't think Roots cars were the prettiest things.
They were quite well made Roots cars, but they weren't generally stuff to kind of fall over
and trip over yourself.
No, that's like overheating problem, didn't it?
It actually had an overheating problem that owners of cars made by Triumph,
particularly the Stags, might actually recognize, isn't it?
Because there was an aluminium head thing going on and they would warp
if the right coolant wasn't used.
Yeah, it was a usual story with the imp, that it was not a great design
and then it was the maintenance schedule that wasn't kept to.
This is why you like it, you've got some kind of empathy with it.
Yeah, a lot of affinity with it.
But the good thing is obviously when it breaks down,
it's going to be warm, isn't it, especially in the winter when you push it
because that engine's in the back.
Yeah, exactly, because it boiled over.
But it had a few compromises, obviously the engine in the back,
you think as a family car you've got to load your stuff into a small cubby in the front and stuff.
But it was actually quite roomy.
The question is though, Max, what's it like to drive?
I had a look around Steve, I could find a review video on YouTube.
There's a good classic World TV one.
They take it out for a spin and while they're driving it,
they've got the minis arch rival very much in mind.
Immediately, it feels different to a mini.
Because you've got all the way to the back, the front is lighter,
data and the steering feels fantastic.
This car is so light on its feet, but unlike the mini,
it's got that swing from the rear effect that you get from old rear-wheel drive cars.
It's remarkably light when it's feet this thing
and gives you so much confidence to chuck it around.
The massive steering wheel in this car just isn't needed frankly.
And it's so flingable, it's hardly anybody roll.
The ride is a little bit bouncy if I'm honest,
but I still say it was more comfy than a mini.
I definitely better start my seat more if I was driving BMC's little car around here
rather than roots.
I'm pulling it into a corner, it just sticks.
And then there's that little engine.
Put your foot down.
It's a sweetie.
A sweetie, there you go, Max and Sauer faced old you, wants to crush it.
Why would you crush that? It sounds quite fun.
Well, it's because of the engine and this is actually what happened to most imps.
Is they were crushed because people took the engine out of the back
and used them in racing cars because they were aluminium.
They were very light and very effective.
The imp was kind of a donor to a lot of racing cars around from the 70s aces.
And that's why they weren't that popular because, I mean, as a car, they were okay.
The engine was quite good if it was looked after, but it was nothing special.
And of course, like I said earlier, there was the mini.
And the mini did drive better than the imp.
You know, the mini is front engine, front wheel drive,
and the imp is rear-enginened, rear-wheel drive.
So it's just a basic balance, isn't it?
It's like a VW Beetle. It's kind of a bit tail heavy.
And that it doesn't give the best handling that you could get.
Yeah, but this is more of an oddity, isn't it?
I mean, there weren't as many made as the mini.
The mini was like something like 5.3 million of them made.
The hillman imp was about 440,000 made between 63 and 76.
And there's only 769 license still on the road
and another 630-odd in garages somewhere soon.
So you're already looking at something's a bit rare, right?
As you say, you don't see them very often.
You know, values are between like 5 and 7K.
Even the top ones are only a little sort of 10 to 12.
That's a lot of car. It's fun.
It's a different choice to a mini.
You've got that kookiness.
You've got the engine in the back.
Yes, it might overheat. Yes, the water pump might blow up.
It doesn't matter. That's all part of the fun of ownership, isn't it?
But it's something different. If you pull up a stag driver, that's right.
It's all right. I'll look after you.
We can all be friends together.
But you know, the minis aren't perfect.
You know, they're not trouble-free.
Most classic cars are perfect.
No, they're not perfect.
But they are a bit more chuckable into corners.
And I think if you're going to put the two back to back, you'd probably always go for the mini
because it just feels more secure.
And it's just it got a bit more fun in the corners.
I don't mind the imp.
I like the various.
They brought out lots of variants of it.
There was the estate, which is quite an ugly looking car, but odd in a nice way.
There was the van.
And then there was that lovely. Have you seen this?
The sunbeam stilletto.
It's basically a coupé version of the imp.
It was a stronger rate to rear window.
And it had two headlights instead of single headlights.
And I like that because it's different.
They were trying to do something different with it.
The imp cells were pretty bad.
And actually, for a while, it was the cheapest new car you could buy in the UK
because nobody was buying it.
It's they made it cheap.
So it's like the British Lada effectively.
But they did make some quite nice special versions of it.
And I kind of admire those because they're different.
But the imp itself is just not...
I mean, nice engine.
That engine came from...
It was based on the Coventry Climax racing engine.
That's right.
So it was actually quite a good engine.
The rest of the car, just a little bit, well, me.
But I think if we're looking at crash or caress,
I would argue you crash a car because it's ugly and forgettable,
or you don't like it or really don't like it.
Or you caress it because it's something that'll keep going.
And I think the imp is a bit of an ugly duckling.
But I think the rarity of it makes it interesting.
It was part of the story of the 60s.
It was the rival that didn't win the race.
And as I say, there's only a few hundred of them left on the road.
I mean, just looked on car and classics.
Let me fall for sale in the UK.
Yeah, I had to look earlier.
There aren't that many other.
Isn't that more of an interesting choice to get?
I would be tempted to take the engine out
and put it in something racing and go really fast in it
and then crush the imp body because that's what lots of people did
because it was just a bit disposable at that point.
Now that's okay when they were cheap and nobody wanted them.
And I do see at your point they are a different classic now.
But for me, it's just going to be beaten by Mini Cooper every time.
I don't know.
There's something about it that makes me want to keep it.
Well, you keep that and I'll have a mini.
I'll zoom around in my trendy 60s Mini Cooper
and you can try for a round in that looking a bit like Day Medina.
So episode 45 of the Tiger.
You can still come or talk interiors.
And whether they are the most important bit of the car or not.
But first, let's talk about our cars.
I've got my stag out up and running about.
I'm still using it in the auto-match.
You're much, much more than I did with the last car, which is good.
I'm running it out max on the sort of sunny autumn days
when there's sort of the sun is shining.
It's not being too cold.
I actually used it to do the work commute the other day.
I thought normally classic cars don't involve them in anything
where I've got to be anywhere.
But I had quite a sort of relaxed day.
I wasn't a mad panic if I was 20 minutes later.
It didn't really matter.
So I thought, well, I'll take the car.
And do you know what?
It worked seamlessly.
I did some errands in it.
I went to the shop.
So I went to work.
I dropped a couple of bits off.
And it was fine.
Absolutely fine.
The only problem in an old car is you just remember
locking all the doors as a pain, isn't it?
And then if you've got one lock that doesn't quite work,
we are spoiled these days with our daily cars, aren't we?
I just touch mine when I walk away from it.
It locks.
But when you're in an old car, you're sort of locking everything
and unlocking everything and mucking about with it.
But that's really good.
The only thing is it's got cold the last few days
and the gritters have been out.
So I've been, I've had a shield.
I've had a garage door shielding my car from the grits.
Because if that, if that stags,
even sniff some, some grit,
it's a moisture.
It's just going to, it's just going to dissolve, isn't it?
Well, they did, didn't they?
Remember the 70s, you know, when stags were new,
people drove them around in the winter as their only car.
And they, they were next summer.
They were kind of rotten, weren't they?
It was too late.
What else have we been up to?
You drove your car to the NEC, which else?
I did.
I took the Merc to the NEC because I thought it's a classic car show.
I'm going to drive my classic car then.
The good thing about the Merc is it is that kind of reliable car
that you should be able to get there.
Okay, fine.
Got there. Okay.
There's a bit of traffic around on that junction, wasn't it?
That basically, if you want to get into the Birmingham airport of the NEC,
there's one lane, because of HS2 roadworks.
But the Merc handled itself pretty well.
It didn't overheat or anything.
I think the only problem I had is the speakers that I wired
in halfway through down the motorway.
Just started crackling and broke up.
I don't know why.
I do know why because I did it.
That's the problem.
But actually, the car itself is brilliant.
It does that daily commute thing.
Well, and I was in the car park of the NEC,
and I have to say I was a little bit disappointed
by how many people turned up in modern cars.
Well, it's the chance to bring a classic.
It was nice weather, and it was just row after row after row of modern stuff.
You know, I really did enjoy going there in a classic car,
because you kind of in the mood.
And you're around like-minded people.
But I just would like to see other,
but like-minded people driving their cars there.
Yeah, I wonder if they could do something.
I wonder if they could do some sort of parking area,
where you could walk through to get to the show,
where people, if they have classic cars,
would be allowed to park there.
So maybe to the show.
So you'd like to do a 20-minute walk.
How about that?
Yeah, exactly that.
Yeah, well, we'll get one of those buses up.
You know, those to nose to somebody.
I think that'd be nice.
The only problem with the NEC is they've got loads of other
if you've been to that show or any other shows.
There's always another five or six shows on,
and I nearly did a wrong turn and got caught in Disney on ice.
And it should have been-
Well, not my thing.
In fact, I got on the bus,
and there was a lot of people screaming and singing Disney songs
and stuff.
But do you remember one show we went to?
There was a comic column.
Wasn't there lots of people dressed up in Star Wars outfits and stuff
when we tried to code a classic car show?
Well, that's right.
Yeah, it was a bit embarrassing,
because I've come in the Star Trek stuff.
I've got the wrong memo.
But yeah, there's always stuff on.
But that'd be a good idea for the show.
If there was some sort of VIP parking,
so if you paid your parking,
but if you came in a classic,
you got to park right outside,
because people would like looking at those cars as well,
wouldn't they?
But no, I know what you mean.
But do I want to drag my car up for like an hour and a half
to the NEC to park it in South Car Park number six?
You know, that's half a mile away from the thing.
I mean, hats off to you.
And your car, actually,
your most classic cars are rubbish in the dark.
Your headlights on yours are brilliant, aren't they?
Yeah, because we met up afterwards.
We went to a pub in just in the Cotswolds,
in the North Cotswolds after.
To tell everybody that we were drinking on the job.
But we met up afterwards from Meal
and by the time we,
by the time I left,
because you stayed in the pub,
by the time I left,
it was about 10 o'clock,
and the headlights are great.
And actually, I had a fantastic drive just south of Bambury
through Chipping Norton and Berford.
It's a really good road.
The headlights were good,
no other traffic around,
and I really got to feel that car in its best,
because it's not a sports car in any sense,
that the Merc SL.
But it is a beautiful cruiser.
And I think that night,
we just clicked in a way that you do sometimes with your cars,
and it was just perfect for that kind of place.
You know,
unusually for a classic car,
the headlights are good enough to use at night.
And actually,
it was just a fantastic drive.
The only time I saw another car,
I was overtaken by an Audi RS3,
that must have been doing about 120 miles an hour.
And on that road,
it's a great road.
I was kind of overtaken by myself 20 years ago,
because it's a fantastic driving road.
But I was just cruising along in the Merc,
and having a great time.
And it's one of those times
you really get to bond with your car.
I got to understand it,
and really, really like it.
So you had good headlights,
you were warm,
but you just couldn't get your debarge on the car stereo.
It's a lighthouse family,
whatever it is you got going on.
Because you speak the same way.
So you need a bit of help with that, do you?
Yeah, basically, I had to sing my own Juran Juran.
Well, we had a good time at the NEC.
Actually,
we were saying we should go for longer next time,
because we had great fun doing the show,
which we put out.
If you've not had a chance to listen to that scroll back,
it's a couple of episodes ago.
But we sort of said, we ran around so much,
looking at good stuff,
that we didn't actually take the time to look at stuff,
if that makes sense.
I don't feel like I got to see very much.
Well, it's big, isn't it?
It's very big.
There's lots of people there,
and we were, you know,
laughably trying to do some work.
So I felt the same.
You know, I felt there was parts of the show
I just never got to.
It's almost like a two-day thing, actually, that show, isn't it?
I'd like to go on day one,
and then come back for the second day,
because there's things I'd like to see again.
And also places I'd like to go,
because we hung around the auction
to make that kind of auction special.
We were there for sort of two or three hours.
So we only had really two or three hours
around the rest of the show.
And that's not really enough.
We met Sam from Old Car Lady.
She was there,
and we spoke to her.
There's a clip on her channel, as well,
on Instagram.
You can have a look.
We had a good laugh with her.
And we also met one of you guys, as well.
DT Mercury.
You came up and said,
hello after we were recording that bit in the podcast cafe.
Really nice to meet you.
And yeah, be nice.
If you see us about, come and say hello,
because it's always nice to catch up with you
and see you in the flesh,
as well as hear from you on the comments as well.
And we spoke to Danny from practical classics as well, didn't we?
Did you pick up any tips from that, Max?
Well, he was quite keen to get us to do some manual labor on the cards.
And I've already told you what happened with my speakers.
They started shorting on the M42.
So I kind of,
I'd like to,
I did ask him actually,
what car would you buy in order to start doing the spannering?
And he was talking about a series two Land Rover,
actually, which is quite a good idea.
But I'm on subject to fixing stuff.
Some of you have been in touch.
Dempsey 8617.
We were asking the question,
you know,
should you leave it to the pros?
And he said,
yeah, it's best to do that,
because I can pull things apart,
but I can rarely fix anything.
We've all been there.
I know that feeling.
Gentle's garage says,
I did most of the work myself on his five series BMW.
But engine,
loom wiring and welding,
I get a pro to do it.
Yeah, I think,
I think this is true.
And three 50-man row picks up on this sort of feeling
that you should stick to what you're good at.
He says,
apart from trimming or fitting tyres,
I do everything else,
which is great.
So, but you've got to know your limitation.
I think Danny said you'd like to do in trimming.
Right.
Let's hear from you about what else you've been doing.
We put a quick film up on our Instagram,
the tire kicker's UK,
from the Arthur Daily style used car lot at the NEC.
Josh Swin 95 said,
nothing sold because
it was the right people at the right time,
but the wrong situation.
Now, that's the mind of the engine, isn't it?
But isn't that right people at the right time?
But wrong location, not situation.
Yeah, that's how it goes.
I love the fact that you said film.
It's nice, like a reel.
Get with it, granddad.
Sorry.
Now I'm not really into that.
D team of Mercury,
we mentioned earlier,
I said it was his first time at the NEC show,
but he struggled with the amount of perfect cars on display.
He said there are only so many escorts on mirrored glass floors
with polished track rod ins that a man can take.
There was quite a few of those cars, weren't they?
Like pristine dinner off cars, weren't they?
Yeah, I mean, that's the kind of thing.
That's what I'm kind of hinting at.
Is that the people who drove their cars there
maybe should have a special section where it's not polished
and it's not on a mirrored glass floor.
It's just turned up and used all the time
because some of those show cars are very impressive to look at,
but clearly they're not driven.
But it is a show, isn't it?
If you took your murk to a show and it was on the murk club stand,
would you wash it?
I'd probably not to be honest, because I like cars that are used.
Yes, you would.
Would you pay someone about 400 quid to go through a random...
Well, it's a bit cold to wash a car at the moment, isn't it?
That's my excuse.
I suppose so, isn't it?
No, but I like cars with a history and I like cars that are used.
I find nothing better than seeing a car streaked with dirt
because you know it's been used properly.
No, you want to come and look at my stag in a garage, isn't it?
But you say that, but if you went around the stand
and your car was filthy or the car you were looking at was filthy,
you just think they've not made an effort.
No, but if it's a show stand to show off a car, yeah, I get it.
But I think there should be another section
where you should just drive there and show your car as it.
Show and go, because it's showing how you use it.
That's part of the fun.
Yeah, true.
I guess that's more like rostable or somewhere like that.
But we've got the restoration show coming up in the new year.
That's probably a bit more gritty if you want a bit of grit.
Talking about sort of shows and things.
I think one of the good things that's happened this year is
I've noticed it locally.
I don't know about you, but there's been a lot more meat happening.
A lot more shows happening.
And obviously that's always been quite a regional thing.
But it started to happen in cities as well now, aren't they?
Yeah, because I went to the SW1 social car meet a few Sundays ago.
I put a snap on Instagram of various cars,
including just a classic mini that was there that was nice.
And then on our Instagram, Harry Hewitt 48 said the mini was his favorite car
because it's his.
Nice mini Harry, I like that.
Explain that, obviously.
But you and I know what SW1 is because we lived in London.
But this is this is in London that you're talking in central London, aren't you?
Yeah, exactly. It's just off Sloan Square.
I mean, to be honest, it's so posh.
I'll be amazed if they're allowed to have that for much longer.
Someone is going to step in and stop low.
But yeah, for the time being, the SW1 social is really nice.
And actually, there was some great cars turning up in London.
Of course, because it's alliz free, it's outside the congestion zone.
So you can drive in in your old car.
And it was really good.
It's a great meat.
And there was some coffee there and stuff.
So a few photos on that because there was some really interesting cars there.
Yeah, that's really good actually to hear because, you know, for the past few years,
what we've heard is not negative stuff about London being anti-cars and, you know,
sort of all this stuff against cars.
It's nice that actually people who enjoy cars are getting together, you know,
in the middle of a capital city and meeting up.
So hopefully that'll continue.
Hopefully the blossoming of these meats that I've been noticing that this year will continue
into next year.
I'm looking forward to it.
I went to a car meet in the cold though recently.
You know, I mean, as I've been using the stagger a bit more normally,
I mean, with the sun beam, I would have put it away and maybe just run out once a month.
But you know, there's the stags more usable because it's got power steering to automatic.
It's just, it's just easier to kind of live with a little bit.
I've been using it more and I went to a car meet and it was grey.
And I wouldn't normally, I've said you in the past, my rule with car meets.
Look at the window.
Is it sunny?
Yes.
Oh, my go.
Is it cloudy?
No, thanks. Stay in bed.
If it's sunny, I don't mind.
But I thought, you know, at this time, I will go and it was over near Readingway.
And it was grey and, you know, the autumn's set in.
And when it's cold, everybody's got the coat on.
And all the good cars stay away.
It's just a bit boring.
The problem is it's the cars, isn't it?
Because I don't mind in the cold.
You know, if it's cold, it cares if you've got some good cars to look at.
But it's the things that expensive stuff tends to stay tucked up during the winter.
So I do, yeah, I know what you mean.
Some of the meats I go to are kind of like peatering out because people just aren't doing it.
But particularly if it's raining, you see a bit of rain in the morning.
You think you're going to see 50% less cars there.
I enjoyed the drive out and actually the drive back more than actually the meat itself.
So maybe that's excuse to go.
You were trying to get me into a Jag XJS.
And one came past me in the street the other day.
I've got to say, I didn't, it didn't turn my head.
So maybe it's the wrong car.
Well, every time I look at XJS as I see old men driving them.
So I think it's perfect. It's got you down to a tee.
Now we talk car specs in the previous episode as well.
And Diego Brett said that turning up in a company car park in an XR2 versus a Golf GTI was a shocker.
And you had to do the walk of shame.
I thought an XR2 would give you a bit of cashier wouldn't it in the company car park?
It's that old thing. It's up against a Golf GTI though.
And the GTI again were the cooler cars of the two, I think, versus the XR2.
I would like to hear more comments from you actually.
If you'd like to keep the comments coming, here are the ways you can get in touch.
You can find us at the Tiger Kickers UK on Instagram and the Tiger Kickers on Facebook.
So I may have mentioned that I'm looking for a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow.
Now I've been looking at bodywork and engines and braking systems.
And in most cases lots and lots of filler and leaking oil.
But I've never really paid much attention to the dashboard.
And that's a pity because I've noticed it.
And it's absolutely beautiful.
Probably one of the nicest parts of a shadow.
Probably the first thing I noticed.
Because I think unlike you, while everyone else is staring at your stunning exterior,
you, the driver, are looking at the dash for what?
99% at the time.
And that's where you form your opinion and your bond with the car.
I mean, that last car I had that I mentioned, the Sunbeam Alpine.
It came to me with a great exterior.
It all been redone, great chrome outside.
And a sort of tired interior.
So my priorities to sort that out.
And the pleasure I got from doing it.
Well, not from doing it.
The pleasure I got from having done it.
And seeing a really nice, re-vinyl black dashboard with clean chrome dials and repainted.
I even repainted the actual needles.
New carpets, new bits of trim.
Just the pleasure I got from driving that and looking at that.
When I drove it was enough for me.
That was a big, big part of the car.
And I'm a little bit OCD about interiors, I think.
If they're not quite right.
A little bit.
Let's correct that.
Very OCD.
Well, this is, since having a stag, it just starts to interior.
It's not, it's not great anyway.
And mine is a little bit tired.
I've noticed, you know, around the edges it started to sort of crack and chip.
And the woods a bit faded.
And, you know, the switches need replacing.
So I'm going to do it.
I'm going to bite the bullet.
I mentioned earlier.
I've got the kit.
I've got new dial, clean up kit, chrome bezels on the dials.
Period style.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All very good.
But you have a car interior fetish, don't you?
You have a car interior fetish and everybody knows about it.
Because you go on and on about it all the time.
Which makes me ask, why didn't you buy a car originally with a nice interior?
Because that stag is like a 70s MF5 furniture catalog.
Why not?
Why didn't you get something with a great interior?
Well, I know.
I've bought it despite the interior.
I've never liked stag interiors.
I still don't like them.
It does look like everything.
What did you buy here?
Well, because I bought, I wanted the engine.
I wanted to own that engine, which is unusual.
You know, normally it's the other way around.
I'm not bothered about the engine and more about the style of the car.
But I wanted to get that engine out my system and it is great.
And it sounds great.
You don't really need a stereo.
That's perfect car for you, really.
You don't need to come and fix yours then if you want.
But the engine sounds great, but I want to improve that interior
because I think interior is such an important part of the car.
So we should look at some interiors.
I think we're coming out of this sort of both at different angles.
But for me, when I open that door, I want to see something that kind of joins up.
The problem I have with interiors is when I open the door
and I just see stuff that leaps out of me.
That's not possible.
Okay. I mean, which kind of interior do you like?
Would you like, say, a minimalist interior?
So if you have a look at your screen now, I'm going to put a picture up of a fear 500.
So a fear 500 is basically just a slab of metal with two switches
and a steering wheel and a speed up.
Do you like that kind of minimalism?
That kind of pure design where there's nothing to distract the driver?
I think this is really clean.
So it says design thing for me.
So I think we're looking at, you know, this has got a metal dashboard.
It's not a lot on it, as you say.
There's like a single dial and ashtray and about three switches.
But I think that's quite cool because it's symmetrical-ish.
You know, it's clean.
It's not cluttered.
And it's quite utilitarian.
So I like that.
Well, I like that as well.
But I'm surprised you do because I'm feeling you want a bit more bling
from your car interior.
Right.
And most car interiors, you know, if you want bling, you've got to be expensive.
How about a Jaguar E type interior?
Because that is a beautiful interior.
Not particularly, well, not just because of the dash,
but because you sit underneath it almost.
You kind of tucked into there almost looking up on the dash.
And those Jaguar E types, they're just beautiful cars inside.
Yeah, I like the Jaguar E type interior.
But the one we're looking at here is perfectly done, isn't it?
It's either been restored.
There's nothing worse than opening something like a Jaguar E type
and seeing knackered seats and peeling dashboards.
I don't mind that because I think it's got a bit of the patina kind of argument.
It just looks used and looks well used and loved.
No, I've got switches in the stag that have kind of just gone all kind of crusty looking
and I just see it really bugs me.
So they're going, the Jag, it's not a great design because it's very cluttered design, isn't it?
If you've sat in a Jaguar E type, it is, it is a bit sort of like flying up.
You do get used to it, though.
I mean, yeah, all the switches look the same, but you do kind of get the idea.
And it's a 60s period look, isn't it?
People weren't worried about ergonomics then.
They just were worried about switches and cigar lighters.
Yeah, I like it. I really, really, really like it.
I also like the pagodas.
I mean, if you think about the Mercedes pagoda, I mean, they look good.
But again, they can look really tatty as well.
And I think, you know, if I got a cheap pagoda with a bad interior,
that would be the first thing that bugged me even more on the body.
And also, the goda interior is so expensive.
Those switches for the heater are just so, so rare and they cost thousands.
Don't they?
But it's a kind of minimalist design, isn't it?
And also that sort of 60s Mercedes design was beautiful.
That dashboard had everything you needed and nothing superfluous.
It was such a good design.
So if we're talking about good stuff here, let's talk about not so great stuff.
You know, Alphas, not brilliant interiors.
The GM review.
Alphas?
Alphas got nice interior because again, that's metal.
But then, you know, the later Alphas riders were a bit.
Or the late 80s Alphas.
I mean, to be honest, 80s, everything.
You know, 80s cars were pretty awful to look at.
I mean, you know, there's a picture here of a VW Golf GTI, Mark I,
as an idea of a nice interior.
Now, I think those interiors are pretty awful to be honest,
because it's just black and plastic and black and plastic.
Coming back to the alpha, I just don't remember me that.
There's that saying, wasn't there?
When you buy an alpha, you buy the engine and they chuck the rest in for free.
Which is pretty much sums up the interiors.
I mean, there's sort of bad interiors.
I hate to say, but triumphs, TR-6s, terrible interiors.
They're really cheap, don't they?
Yeah.
And also, you know, MG engines.
MGB interiors are quite nice.
You do get that kind of sitting in there behind it kind of feeling.
I don't mind those.
A lot of those cars were done on a budget, weren't they?
There's 70 cars.
But you can do them on a budget nicely
and you can do them on the budget with stalks from a Marine or a Sherpa,
which is what you've got.
Yes, true.
I mean, that's all right.
I saw one of the original designers of the stack talking in a video
that we had grand designs for the interior.
But in the end, the accountant just said no.
So we wanted to make the dials crow and they said no.
We wanted to do this and said no.
So everything was done on a bit of a budget, which is a bit of a shame.
I mean, you can go the other way.
I mean, I think there are stags that I see
when people just go over the top and bling them up.
You know, just, you know, let a trim dashboard in bright white cream.
You know, it's just a bit too much.
I think you can make it look tasteful.
A beautifully restored MGB with the original style dashboard.
You don't need to be bling.
It just needs to be nice and clean.
But there are cars where I open the door and just go.
You're a child of the Citroen though, aren't there?
You're a Citroen child.
If you have a look at this page, you'll see the Citroen SM.
Now, the Citroen SM had such a stylish dashboard.
And that wasn't a classic car dashboard.
That was futuristic modern.
That was a cutting edge dashboard.
And those are still really beautiful, aren't they?
Look at that.
The first thing that catches my eye, those ribbed tan leather seats.
I mean, like, wow.
And then you see the gear stick, which is in that sort of almost Ferrari style gate, isn't it?
And then you notice all the kooky bits, like Citroen's at the 70s,
had a stereo, but the stereo wasn't on the dashboard.
It was between the seats, which is really awesome.
It was absolutely nowhere where you could reach it or see it.
It was fantastic.
It was a complete disregard for ergonomics.
You know, I've got a thing about dials as well.
I mean, it's got velier dials in it.
They had them in Ferrari's as well, didn't they?
Those dials in the 70s.
And when I got back into classic cars after being into boats for a while,
I wanted a classic car with chrome dials and Smith's dials and things.
There's something about them, isn't there?
There's something about those sort of 60s, 70s separate mechanical gauges
that make you realize your drive is something clockwork in a way.
And then once the cluster started coming in, just for me,
it's not to be boring.
I'm going to show you the ultimate solution,
which is if you look at this page up on your screen now,
you'll see a picture of a facial vega.
And if you scroll down, you'll see a picture of the facial vega interior.
Possibly one of the greatest looking car interiors of all time.
Now, walnut, chrome, cream leather, it's got everything.
Do you like that?
Wow.
Look at that.
It's got knobs.
It's got switches.
It looks like an aircraft, doesn't it?
I've just had a cross my legs at that one.
It's just, oh my god, it's like...
I was going to say it's like a gentleman's club, isn't it?
But it's not.
It looks like a walnut wardrobe with...
You get the controls of a kind of art deco airline or aren't you?
It just looks absolutely fantastic.
It's about a spot on as an interior can get.
Yeah, that's what my stag's going to look like when I'm finished with it.
I've got news for you.
It ain't.
Well, that's it for this episode next time.
It's the last show before Christmas.
So what are the best Christmas presents for the classic car fan?
Insert joke here about Santa's sack.
And if we're not feeling too bar humbug about Christmas,
maybe we might do some other Christmas classic car related stuff.
How do we have two no party hats, please?
That's next time.
Until then, start Christmas shopping and goodbye.
I've not given you my list yet.
Bye!
Yeah, that'll do.
Nice.
Brilliant.
I can feel the wards coming.
I think I can go in from this magazine.
Yeah.
About this episode
A lively debate unfolds as Max and Matt explore their mutual indifference towards Fords, questioning whether they're missing out on the brand's allure. They discuss classic models like the Escort and Cortina, comparing their appeal and rising auction prices to more beloved alternatives. The conversation also touches on the Hillman Imp, its quirky design, and whether it deserves preservation or destruction. Additionally, they delve into the significance of car interiors, sharing personal experiences and preferences, making for a humorous yet insightful episode about classic car culture.
Original notes
How come we’re not fussed by fast Fords? Should we save or crush that dumpy Mini rival, the Hillman Imp? And is it weird to get hung up about classic car interiors? All that plus our thoughts on the NEC show, your views on whether to fix your cars at home and the usual knockabout from the two hosts. If you like classic cars, you'll love this podcast. Click play to get involved!
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The Tyre Kickers - Classic Cars
Max & Matt
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