Will the new Honda Prelude FLOP? 🤔
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Scott, have I got a deal for you on a Honda?
Is that right?
It's a brand new one.
Yeah.
I think you're going to like it.
All right.
Yeah.
Number one, it's based on the 11th generation Civic global platform.
Right?
Okay.
Number two, it's a coupe, which they haven't done for quite some time.
Right?
All right.
They've been gone for quite a while.
It uses some of the suspension components from the Type R.
Okay.
And the brakes from the Type R, the big brimbo's.
Got it.
Right?
Pricing, kind of up in the air right now.
It did release in Japan.
It's pricey.
So it's over 40 grand.
Okay.
All right.
Yeah.
You're going to probably ask me about...
Well, yeah, how much power does it make?
200.
200.
All right.
200.
All right.
200.
How much does a Type R go for, ish?
In Japan, it's actually cheaper.
It's, I think it's in the high of 30s.
Over here, it's like 45, 46.
And then you can't get one.
They charge you a premium because, you know, they know what they got.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They know what they got.
Yeah.
So, I presume we're talking about the prelude.
We are talking about the prelude.
So...
Oh, man, this is going to be a tough sell.
It is.
So, basically, it did release in Japan already.
It hits the States a little bit later.
From what I've read, though, surprisingly, it's sold out already.
So, it was an initial 2,000 models, and they sold out immediately.
Now, all right.
So, I would venture to say that with 2,000 models or 2,000 production cars, you're
probably going to be pretty safe with the Honda because of the fact there's always going to
be that guy that's diehard enough that he'll want to buy it.
Sure.
Right?
Sure.
And then, in addition to that, it's a new platform.
I think you're going to get a solid amount of people, dealers, or whatever, that think
they're going to get the premium first-run bait so they're going to buy the car.
I've seen the prelude, I think, I believe.
I've seen rendering.
I just want to make sure I'm thinking visualizing the right one.
Right.
Right.
The car, and I think the car is okay, but, you know, at 200 horsepower, I mean, do we
know what it weighs?
Nobody knows what it weighs yet, so it's still to be determined.
Hybrid EV, where are we at with this?
Yeah.
So, it is a hybrid, so it is an Accu-Cyn-Cycle engine, and then it's got the motor for
like the immediate torque.
So, it does have a good amount of torque, 230 foot-pounds, or pound-feet of torque.
But then 200 horsepower, which is at the SI, right?
So, torque-wise, it's better off, but I mean, it is a hybrid, right?
So...
Yeah.
Man, it's hard because cars are just getting so much money, and then you start to think
about...
So, you're saying in Japan, they're selling it for 41 grand, but then they...
So, let's say they MSRP 41 grand in Japan, but then they sell it, they MSRP the
Civic Type-R over there for like, let's say 38, right?
Something like that?
Right.
Something in there, in that range, yeah.
So, do we find that to be at least indicative of what we...
Let's say, hypothetically, let's play this out.
Let's say in the US, the car comes here, and if you're able to...
If you're going to say 45 is MSRP on a Civic Type-R, and this car ends up...
That means this car is going to end up having to be 48 to 50, right?
I would think.
Right.
Right.
You're not getting a Type-R for that, but I understand what you're saying.
Yeah.
I'm just saying MSRP.
I don't want to get into the whole market premiums or anything like that because I think
they're too subjective, right?
Right.
You know what I mean?
So, now, what do you think as far as...
So, if it ends up being at 50 grand, would you buy this car?
I would invite a 40 grand, but here's the thing to keep in mind, too.
In Japan, at $41,000, it's more expensive than a GR Supra.
It's more expensive than the Z, and it's more expensive than the Type-R because everything's
a little bit cheaper over there, but they miss domestic, right?
So...
I don't get it.
Yeah.
It's very, very strange because I don't really know who the car is aimed at.
They're calling it a sporty coupe, but I just don't see it.
I don't see where it's coming from.
We saw something similar years ago with the CRZ, right?
It was supposed to be like this sort of sporty, I guess, kind of sporty commuter.
I remember.
Yeah.
You know, I had one for a year.
So, we had one, yeah, we had one, too.
Yeah, yeah.
So, we put one together for SEMA.
I drove that car quite a bit, actually drove it to NorCal twice.
So, I had a lot of seat time on it, and it was just...
It was a thought.
It was so slow.
I know.
It was just not a fun car to drive.
I didn't enjoy it at all.
Did I ever tell you the thing that really bothered me the most about showing up at SEMA?
So, storytime.
I know we're diverting from the prelude.
We...
Honda comes to us at the time, Chris Martin was working there, and he had said...
He had called us up and just said, hey, guys, you've done some other cars for us,
and we're looking for some real people that are reliable that we can get to build
one of these cars to launch the CRZ at SEMA.
Are you interested?
Are you interested?
And I'm like, no.
Because we had done vehicle builds enough at that point between GM, Honda, Nissan.
And honestly, they just are pain in the ass.
They all tell you that they're going to have these vehicles to you in June.
And then their vehicles don't show up till August, and then you have to have this
thing ready for their photo shoot like October 2nd, you know?
So I'm like, I don't want to do this again.
But then, so he says, are you sure?
Can you at least think about it?
I'm like, yeah, sure.
Of course, we'll think about it.
That would be great.
Then all of a sudden, he comes back and says, listen, we're really just looking for some
players.
If you put a proposal in, well, it looks good.
Could look good.
I was like, okay, cool.
So we decided to...
They give us a strict outline of what we can do, what we can't do.
I don't know if you guys got that.
Did you get that?
I did.
Just so people know, at the time, this was you doing one for Bill and the Puff, Corning.
And I was at the time, I was the editor of Plum to Trini Magazine.
And so we both got our own.
I got one.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, there was about 11 cars, if I remember correctly, given out.
There was a bunch, yeah.
Yeah.
That they gave to us to build, to launch this car.
And they did it in the circle, in the Honda booth at Seaman.
That was the deal.
So the directions we get is, has to reinforce their green way of thought.
Can be a lifestyle build.
Cannot take the engine out.
Cannot...
Right.
Cannot do...
Can't modify any existing engine parts.
Can't remove hybrid system.
I mean, there was very specific things there.
We got that.
Yeah.
So I'm like, you know...
And so we're sitting down, trying to figure out like, all right, well, what exactly
are we going to do?
So we decided we're going to prototype some bolt-on stuff for the car, you know, whatever it may
be.
And we decided to go totally like lifestyle.
You know what I mean?
We paint the car this green, it's like almost like a candy green.
It was actually one of the stock colors that was on the Camaro at one point.
And we obviously do wheels, custom suspension.
We sent the car.
The car went to...
I forget.
The car went to Eibach.
Eibach made some...
Made suspension from it.
The car went to Willwood.
They made a Willwood brake kit for the car.
Right.
Like, you know, it went around.
And then ultimately, what we did was, you know, Jason Whitfield actually helped me
out.
Him and his friend Tim.
Tim's a super gifted audio guy, right?
So we developed this whole multimedia audio system where it's got, yeah, that was
it.
Which is good.
Where it's got, you know, subwoofers in the back and a molded box.
And it has this space for like shoes to like...
So we got etnies at the time on board.
They did some shoes.
We made it so that like a speaker plugged in to this speaker hitch that we made.
So it was almost like you could take this thing.
You know, we had a surfboard on the top.
We had a bike mounted on the top.
We had some skateboards inside.
We tried to make it like a lifestyle thing.
Like you take your car, you go to the skate park, you do the things, you listen to your
music, you got it, right?
Now we felt, we felt we did this right within the realm of what they told us we had to do.
We show up.
Right there.
Yeah.
There you go.
That's the car.
That's SEMA.
That's the booth.
So we show up and I'm looking around and Bissy's got, he's got a whole engine
swap out.
There's not even an engine.
So he had the crazy turbo setup on the stock engine.
But who was it?
RJ?
Ibok.
Ibok had the K24 swap that they had done with Haasport.
Right.
And then when Brian showed up with that car from Brian from Haasport, I was like, you've
got to be kidding me.
I'm looking around and I'm like, they set us up.
Yeah.
If the SEMA situation came up today and Honda was like, hey, can you guys put
together a prelude for SEMA to display?
Would you take it on at this point?
I don't think so.
It's been a lot of years, but I'm just wondering what you do it now.
No engine slops?
No, I don't think so.
I think the one thing that at this point is, I don't think, to me it reminded me of when
GM was giving out Buick Lucerne's to the community and they were saying, hey, build
these cool cars.
Right.
It got to a point where people did and Rick Bottom and some of these guys, they made some
really great versions of that.
But inherently, they're not my type of car.
And I think that that brings back the point that we were starting with in the beginning,
which is that if you're trying to capture our segment, I think you're going to lose
on this prelude.
I mean, I think it's clear that they're banking on the name.
That's the main thing.
But when you look at it, you don't see anything prelude at all.
There's no throwback to kind of like how the new Z has all these little bits and pieces
of older Zs, which was tough to do with a little controversy in the beginning.
People didn't really dig the front end and there was a whole thing.
But at least there's a tie in there.
There's like a legacy with the prelude.
They didn't include anything from previous generations, kind of like the Integra.
They got the bumper indentation, the little lettering in there.
That's kind of cool.
Kind of a cool touch.
But that was that really.
That was it.
Yeah.
Let me ask you a question.
This reminds me a lot of some of the conversation I remember having with people when the Supra,
the A90 Supra came out.
Because some of the argument, obviously we know the BMW Fight Me Bro stuff was out
there and I'm not talking about that as much.
But if you looked at like a Mark IV or an A80 Supra on paper and then you looked
at an A90 Supra on paper, the A90 Supra was a better car.
It is a better car.
It was a better car.
It should be.
It's much more modern.
It should be a better car in every way.
But what I'm saying is when they re-released the Supra as Toyota, like stay top level
for a second.
Let's not get lost in the details of things.
They brought a car that was more modern, had more tech, clearly had styling upgrades
that were whatever, kept some of the check marks true to what they were.
The car was a six cylinder, inline six cylinder engine.
It was a turbo charged engine.
It was, you know what I mean?
Like they gave you a car that had the power, gave you the car that had limited slips.
It gave you things on paper that inherently if you were bringing back a Supra from
their perspective, from a design perspective, gave you a car that was better in every way
than the previous generation, right?
And sometimes I think maybe the OEs get lost in the wrong things.
Now we say they're wrong, but we really don't know from an actual sales aspect whether
they're right or not.
But what I mean is they sit down, they're a design team, and they have objectives
in the beginning of what they have to make better, right?
What they have to do, you know, do you feel that if you look at it from that perspective,
did they make the Supra a better car than the, like is the A90 better than the A80?
I think you have to look at it from a OE or stock to stock perspective.
You can't look at it from the aftermarket.
There's just too much, there's too much folklore with the older model, right?
Yeah.
You've got to look at it subjectively from a person that's not going to build it and
put a single turbo and the whole thing, right?
If you look at it that way, I think the newer Supra is better.
It's a better car overall, and I know people are going to hate on that because the old
one has this and has that, but if you're looking at overall performance, handling,
all that stuff, I would say that the new one is better.
From an enthusiast perspective, I can't really do that because I automatically think
to all the cool ones I've seen built over the years, it's tough.
It's too tough.
I think with the Prelude, it's kind of the same thing.
You can compare stock to stock.
If you've driven a stock Prelude like in the 90s and then you drive this new one, is
the new one better?
Maybe some people might think so because it's got a lot more torque, right?
It doesn't have the stick shifts.
It's got more tech.
It's got more tech.
Way more tech, way more safety.
I would assume it's much heavier once they get those numbers out.
Arguably, you could say that it has a more modern design, maybe because when we think
about, let's say, a 97 to 2001 Prelude, with, by the way, I really liked that car back
in 2000.
Yeah.
That was 2002, 2003.
I wanted one.
I thought that they were really cool.
Those cars probably made about 200 horsepower as well, right in that same window.
They weren't super heavy.
They definitely had that period correct, like just a hint of having like the start of a little
tech but really nothing.
But I think this is why I feel the correlation might be there because the Supra, if you
look at it from an OE perspective and the check mark put on paper type thing, the A90 Supra
is better than the A80 Supra and I think that they're basically doing the same exact
thing with the Prelude on the Honda side.
They're basically saying, hey, look, this was the previous gen.
This car is way better.
And I believe, like you said, if you went stock to stock, I believe it is.
The problem I have is the same problem you have, which is the same problem every enthusiast
has, which is that car clearly wasn't made for them.
It was made for, you know, I guess, and we always say this, but like, you know,
I don't envision.
What I envision is somebody in their late 40s, mid 50s, you know, that wanted just a
car to drive around in, like they get in this car, it's like a sporty thing, they feel pretty
good about themselves, they got this cool sporty car, makes 200 horsepower, they're
never going to lay on it anyway, and life goes on.
That's not our segment.
Like we, so let me ask you, here's a question I want to ask you before I would even open
my mouth on this.
So if you, if you're in charge of making the Prelude today, what are some of the things
that you say as an enthusiast, all right, here's the things I have to do to make this
truly an enthusiast Prelude.
Well, when they got the coupe part of it, they got that right, right, because we
haven't had a coupe, there's been a coupe for a few generations, right, the cord as
well, they got rid of that before it wasn't selling, coupes weren't doing well, right.
Yeah, S2000 was probably like a sporty nature, right, like because they obviously had
specifics, but yeah, so like I think we haven't had a coupe since like the 9th
gen, I mean the 10th gen, so we haven't had a coupe for a little while, right.
So the fact they brought that back is very interesting that that matches up
with the Prelude DNA, I guess, the Prelude of the 90s and early 2000s, it was
basically, it was a level up from a Civic or like an Accord, even an Integra
because it had a bigger engine, typically it had more tech, had all the
bells and whistles, right, whereas you could get a Civic that still had
crank windows, you know, like in the late 90s and stuff.
So I think if you look at the Prelude now compared to like the hybrid
Civic that's out, it's a jump above that, right, it's something a little bit
higher. So in that aspect, they got it right as far as how the Prelude should
sit. The issue that I have is it doesn't have that, and I don't know if
you can really call it this, but you don't really have that same spirit of
the original Prelude, and I kind of felt the same way about the Integra
when they brought that out, and I know that, you know, the Type-S has
got way more power, you know, better suspension, the whole thing, it
doesn't have that same feel. I don't think you can recapture that.
I don't think it's possible. If I was designing it, though, and I wanted to
put it well above the Civic line, for example, even though it's
based on that chassis, I would think a Type-R-ish engine would have
been a better idea, or maybe that option, maybe have a hybrid option and
then also a full-on sport version, an SI, right, that has maybe not
the same amount of power, but something close, maybe like closer to 300,
and being turbocharged and not a hybrid. I'm not an option.
I certainly think that that's definitely a solid piece of it.
The thing that always gets me when we start talking about these
retrocars, and not every situation, like I could think of some
falters, but the one thing that I think some of the more the
domestic cars or the big threes did so well when they retrocars
back is they truly do try to bring some of the styling of those
cars with it. They do it the best.
Now, arguably, just to throw it out there because it's going to
come up, there are some misses, Blazer, miss. I mean, there's
been some cars that they've tried to remake, not the same.
But when you look at the Challenger Camaros, when you
look at the, they bring, they bring tech along, they bring
these these nostalgic pieces along with them, you know,
Corvette Mustang, all that stuff. Yeah. When they bring those
cars forward. And I would argue that the cars that become or
the generations that become the biggest misses are the ones
that don't do that. Right. When you get to redesign it
just are
Is there like a team, though? Is there like a guy or a
team that's like, you know, when we do this new charger,
whatever it is, we have to make sure that it's got that
spirit, that DNA. Is there that one guy that's fighting for
that? Or is it more of just by chance? We should we should
include some of this old stuff, because it'll it'll give
kind of the feel the character and people will dig it. Like, I
just wonder where the split is, you know, does the Honda not
have that? Well, let me ask you, do you think that
there's a possibility and this could easily be something
that already exists. And I just not in tune enough with
it. But do you think there's a possibility that, like the
same way they came out with the Integra and then we got it,
and we're like, Oh, four doors to Dan, that's awesome. And then
eventually they came out with a type as do you think there's
a possibility that there'll be the prelude type R and they
were yeah, I would hope so. Maybe not type R but an SI. I
would hope that there I guess maybe it would depend on how
this sells in Italy, especially, you know, globally, not
just in Japan. Well, you said they are sold out. So we're
good. They did. 2000 models. And that's all they're going to
run for now. If you were lucky enough to get on that list,
I guess you have to let go, go through some hoops in order to
do that. Yeah, you, for example, you've got to be, you
had to be part of Honda's total care package. Some of the
dealers were seeing you had to have bought three or more
Hondas in the last five years. This is stupid. Yeah, we
had a bunch of little things, you know, you had to be in
order to, you know, to be eligible. Yeah. You know, and
it's still sold out. Yeah. So I just think that that's
ridiculous. I mean, I under listen, Ferrari does the same
thing when you want to get some elite models, right? You're
going to go try to get an Enzo or a La Ferrari, like you have
to have a resume of Ferrari ownership and stuff like that.
The same thing happens with the four GTs, right? Like those
cars are massively would massively sell more than
they than they make, but they you have to have
previous ownership of one different things like that.
And I get that. But I mean, maybe not for a Honda prelude,
right? Like, you know, sorry, I get it. I get it. You got 2000
pieces, you got to start somewhere, right? But, you
know, look, if, if I'm building, if I'm the guy
that's in charge of building this prelude, like,
absolutely, you're right. I mean, maybe it doesn't have
to be a full blown out civic type R doesn't have to be
that what it's the F the F 20 C, right? Like,
are you talking about the engine? It's a key 20 C.
Okay, I'm sorry. Um, yeah. But it can be a derivative of
that, you know, sure. Exactly. Right. It doesn't have to be
exactly the same. But yeah, like I say, it's got to have
something there. Four cylinder turbo takes that thing, like
you said, maybe it makes 250 260 horsepower. But it's got
turbo gives you the little bit of that ability for the
aftermarket to get involved and make more. I think that
that's always a secret to a lot of these cars, right?
So there's, there's that. Then I think you have to go a
little bit further back to some of the styling. I think
they didn't really nail the prelude styling. I looked
weird. And they build these these renderings. And those are
the ones that usually end up getting circulated over the
internet, the same ones that your cousin brother and your
friend that doesn't that's not informed shows you and
says, did you see the new one that Honda released? And
you're like, that's not it. And they're like, no, it
is. And you're like, no, that's somebody that did a rendering
and you're like, and they're like, no, this is the one that's
coming out. And when I'm like, not even close, right? There's
that guy. So I guess what I'm saying is, why is it that all
of those people that go through that process of Oh, like, like,
like Jonathan Seibel and stuff like that, right? Yeah, like,
they develop these renderings that are so freaking on
par with what enthusiasts want and have a lot of the same
styling cues and and bring all these cool things. Why is it
that an OE doesn't ever just pay attention to that? Or try to
bring some of the who's guys in to do something that's just so
on par? You know what I mean? I think people have asked that
for years, especially someone like like a John Sebel who does
these incredible renderings. And they, you know,
sometimes they don't make complete sense because they're
way too low or there's carbon, you know, all the
place or whatever. But we understand. But yeah, yeah, he
kind of embellishing. But like, in terms of just the general
shape and design, they always look so good. And you would think
right, they would take those cues and you see what actually
comes out like the really looks a little bit, a little bit
goofy, but a little bit bold, this little bit strange, just
the design overall. But you know, it is what it is. But
we were talking about pricing is something that I found
interesting. The 2000 ish prelude, I think it was like
around 22 five back when it was new, right? Yeah, with
inflation today, it would be like 51 five. So that kind of
gives you an idea that I don't know if this car is actually
overpriced, it feels like it is to us. But really, it might
not be because that's just inflation.
But you know, here's the thing, we're dealing with
MSRP now, we don't know what market premiums are, we
don't know what people actually will spend for these
cars, especially with only 2000 pieces. However, I would
argue that today, that car being at let's say we we could
buy it for the sticker. I would argue that at $41,000. It's
not so bad. Because right, I don't have 41,000. But we're
never gonna sell 41, but at $41,000, it's not so bad. I
would also say that if I could buy a Civic Type R for
38, I think that's a steal at this point. But you can't get
one of those either. So don't worry about it. So my problem
is that this, you know, prelude was a car that we held near
and dear, I don't look at this car at all and see prelude at
all. No, no, I don't either. Nothing. But then again, I look
at the new RSX and I don't see RSX not either in this that
TV, right? Well, that's fair. Right? You know what I mean?
Like I don't see anything, any cues where you go, I guess
kind of like, maybe this or that, nothing, like no DSM
fan owns a Eclipse Cross. Right? Not one, I promise. I don't
even know if that's a factual statement, but I feel like it's
factual statement. I wonder, I mean, do you think that the
success of the of the Integra coming back led to them being
well, you know what? Why don't we do the prelude now?
Because it was it was so good with the Integra. I don't
know what the sales were on the Integra. I never
personally see them around. In my region, I'm in my own
little bubble. But here in SoCal, I don't see them
around. I've only seen one type that's in person. And I don't
just don't see them on the street at all.
I see a few of them. I mean, yeah, I've seen a few of them.
I here's the thing. I I think that car five, six, seven
years ago, maybe a little bit more now, would have
probably done better. I think that the SUV thing is
really distorting what cars actually sell at. Like even for
me, like, you know, daily driving, I don't I don't even I, for
some reason, driving a car to me is like, I feel like I'm
lost in a sea of other SUVs now, right? Right. So I think
there's that I mean, like the people the things that I
want to buy from a car perspective are gonna be
things I drive as, you know, maybe as weekend cars or
pleasure cars, quote unquote. I don't you know, I don't
really know. I mean, I just think that when you go to buy one
of these cars, do I think that a price makes sense at this
point? Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's I mean, with
inflation, it's it's right on it's right on par with
inflation that that's about where it should be in the
40s. Yeah, but but like when you start to think about
these cars coming back in a retro thing, they're
bringing back preludes, they're bringing back
integrals, they're bringing back these things. I think
it's that, you know, a lot of these car companies have
realized that, you know, there's no point to, you know, you
can build on nostalgia, you can you can build on that. But
why is it always like a game of telephone where, you
know, where they start on a concept or whatever it may
be, has, you know, four to five points. And by the
time they get to the end, it's got two out of five. You
know what I mean? Like, right? Why is it why do we
get so watered down? I mean, it might just be like, I can
only imagine it to be one or two ways. Either the first
way is there's the actual guy that came up with the
concept that sold this thing to everybody and
everybody's like, yeah, heroes, cheer, cheer, cheer,
put them up on your shoulders. This guy, he figured
it out, we're going to kill it. And then that same
guy sitting for three years of his life in the
corner of a room, while all these other people
say, oh, we should put a hybrid in it. And
they're like, wow, high five. And then this guy is
just bashing his head, like, or it's the other way,
which is like, you know, well, what are we going to
do now? Let's come out with it. We'll go back to
the prelude. Well, what else do we have this
commonality in, you know, in the kind of the
worldwide market segment? Well, we got this
platform, we could turn it into this. And we
got this hybrid system, we could dump it in
there. I don't know.
I think also look at it like, from their
perspective, if we come out with this, this
coop that is basically stealing the engine from
the Civic Hybrid, and we call it the Geel 6 or
some whatever name they come up with, right? Is
they going to hit as hard or have as much
attention if we put the prelude name on it,
but the prelude name on it, you get people
talking, right? Because there's a lot of
prelude fans out there. There's a lot of
people that had those cars in the past.
This way you get some height built, right? It
helps for sure. Let me let me propose one
other situation, because we did obviously
take it a little bit to the extreme by
throwing, you know, like, you know, the K20C
in there and different things in
hypothetical nature. Let's say they nailed
the exterior styling to be just a little
bit closer to maybe what made you feel
like it was a modernized last gen. I
think it was third gen prelude, right?
Right. Then instead of doing that, they
put the Accord two liter turbo engine
into this car. And, you know, I think
that that car would do fine.
I think the styling is the biggest, the
biggest factor. There's no tie in to the
old one. And I think you, I think you
lose a lot of the prelude fan base
that's been around for, I mean, for
decades, right? You lose a lot of them
when the car comes out and looks this
way. It doesn't have any kind of throw
back to to any of the generations prior
to, you know, there's nothing there. I
don't see it anyways. Right. Maybe
somebody else does. I've looked, I've
looked at the car a few more than a
few times. And I it's a possible
not to. It's all over my feet. It's
everywhere. Yeah, I mean, luckily I'm
not hot enough that maybe I'm not
hot enough that I that it's infiltrated
my feet yet. But yeah, I will say
that I just there's nothing that I
look at that car and I'm like, Oh, I
can see it. Nothing. Yeah, I don't
say anything. So I mean, I guess, I
guess time will tell. It's got to be
driven, right? And reviewed. And people
get an idea of what it can, can it
can't do. But there's not much to
really change it from the civic
hybrid that's already out. You do
have the suspension changes and the
break changes that you're getting
from the type R, which is really
cool. But is that enough?
I guess we're going to see. You
know, from a from a three quarter
looking down angle, the car has good
lines on the on the side. Like the
cars got good lines. It the problem
that I have is the front doesn't
really give you that feeling of like
anything. I do like the back they
kind of take the three they almost
take that like the new Z straight
back thing there as well. But then
the rear is just so bubbly. It's
just yeah, it's really round. Even the
front just really bubbly. If you
look at like, like all of the
previous generation preludes, they
all had a much more angular cut in
the rear, especially they're very
angular. I don't know. That's what I
liked about them. You know, a little
bit sharper. But you know, this is
years and years later. So I guess
it's got to have a more modern
design. Yeah. So I guess I guess
we should pose the question out there
to people listening or watching. What
does the does the prelude do it
for you? What do you think it
would have taken for this prelude to
be the prelude that would have done
it for you? And be realistic. Because
understand that like, you know, you're
not going to put like it would be
great if they made a real drive put
a V8 in it. You know what I mean?
Like, I didn't mean to make a real
drive. You know what I meant? Like,
you know, put a drivetrain in it
that's like completely uncharacteristic
for Honda. But like what would what
would what would make this car
something for you is a is a our
coupes? Are coupes that aren't like
super powerful sports cars? Are they
still a thing? Should they have just
gone on to do something different? I'm
curious to see what people's actual
reaction and do me a favor, try to
embellish a little bit more than or
elaborate a little bit more than just
saying pray there's trash. I would
like I would like to really hear what
some people have to say about this
car. But it's interesting. I feel I
feel every time I see one of these
cars, you know, nine and nine times out
of 10, I feel like it's just a totally
missed opportunity. Right. Right. But
then again, we're on the outside
looking in, right? We don't know what
Honda's doing. So for us, we think we
know it all right. But then if
you're if you're behind the doors
there, it might be completely
different. This is what has to be
done because of this, this and this
and I mean, there's a bunch of
moving pieces, right? It's easy to
say, make the prelude, you know,
faster than, you know, a bigger
engine type R more power all will
drive this than the other. But the
reality is maybe that's just not,
it's not a possibility. Yeah, I mean,
we get that kind of stuff with
wheels, right? Like all the time
people say, right, you should have
made it two pounds lighter. You're
like, that's not possible. Like it
can happen. Like you should have
made it this, you should have done
this, right? So I get it, like
they don't have the insight. We
don't have the insight. I mean,
the truth is, if you were to look
at renderings as they were
sketching them with whatever
they're using as inspiration behind,
maybe they nailed it. Like maybe
side by side, they feel from, you
know, with their design language,
you know, keeping their current
design language and moving
things forward, maybe they feel
they've got the best of all the
worlds combined in. They felt
really good about this car, you
know, and we just don't
understand that there is an
actual thing for people that
don't know that actually is
design language, they have
entire, you know, principles
and stuff that are in these
companies where they got to
keep this design language. So and
that's what allows you to feel
like, oh, that's definitely a Honda.
And that's definitely this. So
maybe when you factor in design
language and safety features and
platforms and what you can get
EPA and the whole thing. And maybe
like you said, it just comes
down to that's that's what the
recipe delivered.
Yeah, it could have been that
they you're looking at them
designing around the platform,
right? Because it's the global
platform. It's the same one that
that's used for everything. So
they had to build around that.
And maybe this is what the best
it could be. You know what I mean?
There was no way to incorporate
some of that older prelude stuff
into this, which is sad because
it doesn't make any sense to me.
Like I just that's really
lose me. If you're going to build
a modern prelude, you've got to
bring something from the older
prelude, some some sort of like
a design.
Can you go back up one one
quick second?
Why are they showing an insight
next to a prelude? I'm looking
at car and driver and they're
showing an insight next to a prelude.
And I'm thinking myself, if
that's the car you're trying to go
after you missed, that's why you
missed.
That's right.
You know, I don't
know. I just
I struggle to see it.
They bring back some of these old
preludes and I'm like, I don't
see the, you know,
but who knows?
I mean, but maybe maybe
if they had done this
and use the hybrid setup
and all that, but then it may
let's say it made two hundred
and ninety horsepower, for example.
And let's say two hundred and seventy
foot pounds or pound pound feet of
torque. What that have been
enough to kind of push people more
toward it. Because right now, the
two hundred horsepower thing, it's
odd because because Honda's played
it safe with that.
You know, the Civic Si
since the
since the EP three has always
been about two hundred horsepower,
two hundred horsepower ish.
And that was from the two liter
to the two point four liter, now
the one point five liter turbo.
It's always been in that
range, which is crazy for what is
that like twenty five years that
they've stayed in that same horsepower
range and they've never kind of veered
from it. I can understand now because
the type bar, they don't want to have
the Si and type are too close,
but it's a little a little strange
that would never bring that up
further than than that.
You know, the Japanese are very
efficient. They may have printed a
lot of flyers back in the day
that said two hundred horsepower and
they're still using them.
I don't.
Right, right.
I don't know.
Yeah, that's a that's a that's
an interesting piece. I'm not I'm
not really all together too sure.
I mean, look, here's the thing.
I feel like if I look at the prelude,
if you would have told me this was
the modernized Honda beat,
I probably would have believed you.
It actually does.
It could be anything.
There's nothing private about it,
right?
Because it could have just been a
whole, a whole new thing.
It could have just been, you know,
civic hybrid Coupe, right?
Never want to be like, all right,
cool. Right.
It's a hybrid Coupe.
Right.
So for those that are, again,
still with us, drop, drop your
comments down below.
I'm interested to hear what you have
to say.
So yeah, that's it.
Anything else to add on the prelude
before we get out of here, Matt?
No, I'm a little disappointed.
So I'm going to soak for a while.
We're going to end it on a level of
disappointment.
That's right. The theme for this
year. So I should probably take the
rest of the day off and just go
to soak.
Absolutely.
Of course.
That's right.
So all right.
Take care of everybody.
We'll catch you next week.
See you.
We'll be good, Max.
About this episode
The discussion centers around the new Honda Prelude, which is based on the Civic platform and features hybrid technology. With a price point over $40,000 and 200 horsepower, the hosts debate its market appeal and whether it can capture the spirit of previous Prelude models. They express skepticism about its design and performance compared to competitors like the Civic Type R and GR Supra. The episode also touches on the challenges of reviving classic names without losing their essence, and whether Honda's approach will resonate with enthusiasts.
Original notes
The Honda Prelude is back — but is it the comeback car enthusiasts wanted, or just a nostalgia play?
Are we paying for performance… or prestige?
In this episode of the Behind the Wheel Podcast by KONIG, Matt & Scott break down the return of the 2025 Honda Prelude. With 2,000 units selling out immediately in Japan, all eyes are now on how it will perform in the U.S. market.
Will it appeal to real car enthusiasts?
Is Honda playing it too safe?
How does it stack up in today’s market?
What this means for affordable performance cars in 2025 and beyond Let us know what you think — is the new Prelude a hit or a miss?
Subscribe for more automotive insight from KONIG and the Behind the Wheel team.
2025 Behind the Wheel Podcast | All Rights Reserved
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