Will the new Honda Prelude FLOP? 🤔

Scott, have I got a deal for you on a Honda?

Is that right?

It's a brand new one.

Yeah.

I think you're going to like it.

All right.

Yeah.

Number one, it's based on the 11th generation Civic global platform.

Right?

Okay.

Number two, it's a coupe, which they haven't done for quite some time.

Right?

All right.

They've been gone for quite a while.

It uses some of the suspension components from the Type R.

Okay.

And the brakes from the Type R, the big brimbo's.

Got it.

Right?

Pricing, kind of up in the air right now.

It did release in Japan.

It's pricey.

So it's over 40 grand.

Okay.

All right.

Yeah.

You're going to probably ask me about...

Well, yeah, how much power does it make?

200.

All right.

200.

All right.

200.

How much does a Type R go for, ish?

In Japan, it's actually cheaper.

It's, I think it's in the high of 30s.

Over here, it's like 45, 46.

And then you can't get one.

They charge you a premium because, you know, they know what they got.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They know what they got.

Yeah.

So, I presume we're talking about the prelude.

We are talking about the prelude.

So...

Oh, man, this is going to be a tough sell.

It is.

So, basically, it did release in Japan already.

It hits the States a little bit later.

From what I've read, though, surprisingly, it's sold out already.

So, it was an initial 2,000 models, and they sold out immediately.

Now, all right.

So, I would venture to say that with 2,000 models or 2,000 production cars, you're

probably going to be pretty safe with the Honda because of the fact there's always going to

be that guy that's diehard enough that he'll want to buy it.

Sure.

Right?

Sure.

And then, in addition to that, it's a new platform.

I think you're going to get a solid amount of people, dealers, or whatever, that think

they're going to get the premium first-run bait so they're going to buy the car.

I've seen the prelude, I think, I believe.

I've seen rendering.

I just want to make sure I'm thinking visualizing the right one.

Right.

The car, and I think the car is okay, but, you know, at 200 horsepower, I mean, do we

know what it weighs?

Nobody knows what it weighs yet, so it's still to be determined.

Hybrid EV, where are we at with this?

Yeah.

So, it is a hybrid, so it is an Accu-Cyn-Cycle engine, and then it's got the motor for

like the immediate torque.

So, it does have a good amount of torque, 230 foot-pounds, or pound-feet of torque.

But then 200 horsepower, which is at the SI, right?

So, torque-wise, it's better off, but I mean, it is a hybrid, right?

So...

Yeah.

Man, it's hard because cars are just getting so much money, and then you start to think

about...

So, you're saying in Japan, they're selling it for 41 grand, but then they...

So, let's say they MSRP 41 grand in Japan, but then they sell it, they MSRP the

Civic Type-R over there for like, let's say 38, right?

Something like that?

Right.

Something in there, in that range, yeah.

So, do we find that to be at least indicative of what we...

Let's say, hypothetically, let's play this out.

Let's say in the US, the car comes here, and if you're able to...

If you're going to say 45 is MSRP on a Civic Type-R, and this car ends up...

That means this car is going to end up having to be 48 to 50, right?

I would think.

Right.

You're not getting a Type-R for that, but I understand what you're saying.

Yeah.

I'm just saying MSRP.

I don't want to get into the whole market premiums or anything like that because I think

they're too subjective, right?

Right.

You know what I mean?

So, now, what do you think as far as...

So, if it ends up being at 50 grand, would you buy this car?

I would invite a 40 grand, but here's the thing to keep in mind, too.

In Japan, at $41,000, it's more expensive than a GR Supra.

It's more expensive than the Z, and it's more expensive than the Type-R because everything's

a little bit cheaper over there, but they miss domestic, right?

So...

I don't get it.

Yeah.

It's very, very strange because I don't really know who the car is aimed at.

They're calling it a sporty coupe, but I just don't see it.

I don't see where it's coming from.

We saw something similar years ago with the CRZ, right?

It was supposed to be like this sort of sporty, I guess, kind of sporty commuter.

I remember.

Yeah.

You know, I had one for a year.

So, we had one, yeah, we had one, too.

Yeah, yeah.

So, we put one together for SEMA.

I drove that car quite a bit, actually drove it to NorCal twice.

So, I had a lot of seat time on it, and it was just...

It was a thought.

It was so slow.

I know.

It was just not a fun car to drive.

I didn't enjoy it at all.

Did I ever tell you the thing that really bothered me the most about showing up at SEMA?

So, storytime.

I know we're diverting from the prelude.

We...

Honda comes to us at the time, Chris Martin was working there, and he had said...

He had called us up and just said, hey, guys, you've done some other cars for us,

and we're looking for some real people that are reliable that we can get to build

one of these cars to launch the CRZ at SEMA.

Are you interested?

And I'm like, no.

Because we had done vehicle builds enough at that point between GM, Honda, Nissan.

And honestly, they just are pain in the ass.

They all tell you that they're going to have these vehicles to you in June.

And then their vehicles don't show up till August, and then you have to have this

thing ready for their photo shoot like October 2nd, you know?

So I'm like, I don't want to do this again.

But then, so he says, are you sure?

Can you at least think about it?

I'm like, yeah, sure.

Of course, we'll think about it.

That would be great.

Then all of a sudden, he comes back and says, listen, we're really just looking for some

players.

If you put a proposal in, well, it looks good.

Could look good.

I was like, okay, cool.

So we decided to...

They give us a strict outline of what we can do, what we can't do.

I don't know if you guys got that.

Did you get that?

I did.

Just so people know, at the time, this was you doing one for Bill and the Puff, Corning.

And I was at the time, I was the editor of Plum to Trini Magazine.

And so we both got our own.

I got one.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, there was about 11 cars, if I remember correctly, given out.

There was a bunch, yeah.

Yeah.

That they gave to us to build, to launch this car.

And they did it in the circle, in the Honda booth at Seaman.

That was the deal.

So the directions we get is, has to reinforce their green way of thought.

Can be a lifestyle build.

Cannot take the engine out.

Cannot...

Right.

Cannot do...

Can't modify any existing engine parts.

Can't remove hybrid system.

I mean, there was very specific things there.

We got that.

Yeah.

So I'm like, you know...

And so we're sitting down, trying to figure out like, all right, well, what exactly

are we going to do?

So we decided we're going to prototype some bolt-on stuff for the car, you know, whatever it may

be.

And we decided to go totally like lifestyle.

You know what I mean?

We paint the car this green, it's like almost like a candy green.

It was actually one of the stock colors that was on the Camaro at one point.

And we obviously do wheels, custom suspension.

We sent the car.

The car went to...

I forget.

The car went to Eibach.

Eibach made some...

Made suspension from it.

The car went to Willwood.

They made a Willwood brake kit for the car.

Right.

Like, you know, it went around.

And then ultimately, what we did was, you know, Jason Whitfield actually helped me

out.

Him and his friend Tim.

Tim's a super gifted audio guy, right?

So we developed this whole multimedia audio system where it's got, yeah, that was

it.

Which is good.

Where it's got, you know, subwoofers in the back and a molded box.

And it has this space for like shoes to like...

So we got etnies at the time on board.

They did some shoes.

We made it so that like a speaker plugged in to this speaker hitch that we made.

So it was almost like you could take this thing.

You know, we had a surfboard on the top.

We had a bike mounted on the top.

We had some skateboards inside.

We tried to make it like a lifestyle thing.

Like you take your car, you go to the skate park, you do the things, you listen to your

music, you got it, right?

Now we felt, we felt we did this right within the realm of what they told us we had to do.

We show up.

Right there.

Yeah.

There you go.

That's the car.

That's SEMA.

That's the booth.

So we show up and I'm looking around and Bissy's got, he's got a whole engine

swap out.

There's not even an engine.

So he had the crazy turbo setup on the stock engine.

But who was it?

RJ?

Ibok.

Ibok had the K24 swap that they had done with Haasport.

Right.

And then when Brian showed up with that car from Brian from Haasport, I was like, you've

got to be kidding me.

I'm looking around and I'm like, they set us up.

Yeah.

If the SEMA situation came up today and Honda was like, hey, can you guys put

together a prelude for SEMA to display?

Would you take it on at this point?

I don't think so.

It's been a lot of years, but I'm just wondering what you do it now.

No engine slops?

No, I don't think so.

I think the one thing that at this point is, I don't think, to me it reminded me of when

GM was giving out Buick Lucerne's to the community and they were saying, hey, build

these cool cars.

Right.

It got to a point where people did and Rick Bottom and some of these guys, they made some

really great versions of that.

But inherently, they're not my type of car.

And I think that that brings back the point that we were starting with in the beginning,

which is that if you're trying to capture our segment, I think you're going to lose

on this prelude.

I mean, I think it's clear that they're banking on the name.

That's the main thing.

But when you look at it, you don't see anything prelude at all.

There's no throwback to kind of like how the new Z has all these little bits and pieces

of older Zs, which was tough to do with a little controversy in the beginning.

People didn't really dig the front end and there was a whole thing.

But at least there's a tie in there.

There's like a legacy with the prelude.

They didn't include anything from previous generations, kind of like the Integra.

They got the bumper indentation, the little lettering in there.

That's kind of cool.

Kind of a cool touch.

But that was that really.

That was it.

Yeah.

Let me ask you a question.

This reminds me a lot of some of the conversation I remember having with people when the Supra,

the A90 Supra came out.

Because some of the argument, obviously we know the BMW Fight Me Bro stuff was out

there and I'm not talking about that as much.

But if you looked at like a Mark IV or an A80 Supra on paper and then you looked

at an A90 Supra on paper, the A90 Supra was a better car.

It is a better car.

It was a better car.

It should be.

It's much more modern.

It should be a better car in every way.

But what I'm saying is when they re-released the Supra as Toyota, like stay top level

for a second.

Let's not get lost in the details of things.

They brought a car that was more modern, had more tech, clearly had styling upgrades

that were whatever, kept some of the check marks true to what they were.

The car was a six cylinder, inline six cylinder engine.

It was a turbo charged engine.

It was, you know what I mean?

Like they gave you a car that had the power, gave you the car that had limited slips.

It gave you things on paper that inherently if you were bringing back a Supra from

their perspective, from a design perspective, gave you a car that was better in every way

than the previous generation, right?

And sometimes I think maybe the OEs get lost in the wrong things.

Now we say they're wrong, but we really don't know from an actual sales aspect whether

they're right or not.

But what I mean is they sit down, they're a design team, and they have objectives

in the beginning of what they have to make better, right?

What they have to do, you know, do you feel that if you look at it from that perspective,

did they make the Supra a better car than the, like is the A90 better than the A80?

I think you have to look at it from a OE or stock to stock perspective.

You can't look at it from the aftermarket.

There's just too much, there's too much folklore with the older model, right?

Yeah.

You've got to look at it subjectively from a person that's not going to build it and

put a single turbo and the whole thing, right?

If you look at it that way, I think the newer Supra is better.

It's a better car overall, and I know people are going to hate on that because the old

one has this and has that, but if you're looking at overall performance, handling,

all that stuff, I would say that the new one is better.

From an enthusiast perspective, I can't really do that because I automatically think

to all the cool ones I've seen built over the years, it's tough.

It's too tough.

I think with the Prelude, it's kind of the same thing.

You can compare stock to stock.

If you've driven a stock Prelude like in the 90s and then you drive this new one, is

the new one better?

Maybe some people might think so because it's got a lot more torque, right?

It doesn't have the stick shifts.

It's got more tech.

Way more tech, way more safety.

I would assume it's much heavier once they get those numbers out.

Arguably, you could say that it has a more modern design, maybe because when we think

about, let's say, a 97 to 2001 Prelude, with, by the way, I really liked that car back

in 2000.

Yeah.

That was 2002, 2003.

I wanted one.

I thought that they were really cool.

Those cars probably made about 200 horsepower as well, right in that same window.

They weren't super heavy.

They definitely had that period correct, like just a hint of having like the start of a little

tech but really nothing.

But I think this is why I feel the correlation might be there because the Supra, if you

look at it from an OE perspective and the check mark put on paper type thing, the A90 Supra

is better than the A80 Supra and I think that they're basically doing the same exact

thing with the Prelude on the Honda side.

They're basically saying, hey, look, this was the previous gen.

This car is way better.

And I believe, like you said, if you went stock to stock, I believe it is.

The problem I have is the same problem you have, which is the same problem every enthusiast

has, which is that car clearly wasn't made for them.

It was made for, you know, I guess, and we always say this, but like, you know,

I don't envision.

What I envision is somebody in their late 40s, mid 50s, you know, that wanted just a

car to drive around in, like they get in this car, it's like a sporty thing, they feel pretty

good about themselves, they got this cool sporty car, makes 200 horsepower, they're

never going to lay on it anyway, and life goes on.

That's not our segment.

Like we, so let me ask you, here's a question I want to ask you before I would even open

my mouth on this.

So if you, if you're in charge of making the Prelude today, what are some of the things

that you say as an enthusiast, all right, here's the things I have to do to make this

truly an enthusiast Prelude.

Well, when they got the coupe part of it, they got that right, right, because we

haven't had a coupe, there's been a coupe for a few generations, right, the cord as

well, they got rid of that before it wasn't selling, coupes weren't doing well, right.

Yeah, S2000 was probably like a sporty nature, right, like because they obviously had

specifics, but yeah, so like I think we haven't had a coupe since like the 9th

gen, I mean the 10th gen, so we haven't had a coupe for a little while, right.

So the fact they brought that back is very interesting that that matches up

with the Prelude DNA, I guess, the Prelude of the 90s and early 2000s, it was

basically, it was a level up from a Civic or like an Accord, even an Integra

because it had a bigger engine, typically it had more tech, had all the

bells and whistles, right, whereas you could get a Civic that still had

crank windows, you know, like in the late 90s and stuff.

So I think if you look at the Prelude now compared to like the hybrid

Civic that's out, it's a jump above that, right, it's something a little bit

higher. So in that aspect, they got it right as far as how the Prelude should

sit. The issue that I have is it doesn't have that, and I don't know if

you can really call it this, but you don't really have that same spirit of

the original Prelude, and I kind of felt the same way about the Integra

when they brought that out, and I know that, you know, the Type-S has

got way more power, you know, better suspension, the whole thing, it

doesn't have that same feel. I don't think you can recapture that.

I don't think it's possible. If I was designing it, though, and I wanted to

put it well above the Civic line, for example, even though it's

based on that chassis, I would think a Type-R-ish engine would have

been a better idea, or maybe that option, maybe have a hybrid option and

then also a full-on sport version, an SI, right, that has maybe not

the same amount of power, but something close, maybe like closer to 300,

and being turbocharged and not a hybrid. I'm not an option.

I certainly think that that's definitely a solid piece of it.

The thing that always gets me when we start talking about these

retrocars, and not every situation, like I could think of some

falters, but the one thing that I think some of the more the

domestic cars or the big threes did so well when they retrocars

back is they truly do try to bring some of the styling of those

cars with it. They do it the best.

Now, arguably, just to throw it out there because it's going to

come up, there are some misses, Blazer, miss. I mean, there's

been some cars that they've tried to remake, not the same.

But when you look at the Challenger Camaros, when you

look at the, they bring, they bring tech along, they bring

these these nostalgic pieces along with them, you know,

Corvette Mustang, all that stuff. Yeah. When they bring those

cars forward. And I would argue that the cars that become or

the generations that become the biggest misses are the ones

that don't do that. Right. When you get to redesign it

just are

Is there like a team, though? Is there like a guy or a

team that's like, you know, when we do this new charger,

whatever it is, we have to make sure that it's got that

spirit, that DNA. Is there that one guy that's fighting for

that? Or is it more of just by chance? We should we should

include some of this old stuff, because it'll it'll give

kind of the feel the character and people will dig it. Like, I

just wonder where the split is, you know, does the Honda not

have that? Well, let me ask you, do you think that

there's a possibility and this could easily be something

that already exists. And I just not in tune enough with

it. But do you think there's a possibility that, like the

same way they came out with the Integra and then we got it,

and we're like, Oh, four doors to Dan, that's awesome. And then

eventually they came out with a type as do you think there's

a possibility that there'll be the prelude type R and they

were yeah, I would hope so. Maybe not type R but an SI. I

would hope that there I guess maybe it would depend on how

this sells in Italy, especially, you know, globally, not

just in Japan. Well, you said they are sold out. So we're

good. They did. 2000 models. And that's all they're going to

run for now. If you were lucky enough to get on that list,

I guess you have to let go, go through some hoops in order to

do that. Yeah, you, for example, you've got to be, you

had to be part of Honda's total care package. Some of the

dealers were seeing you had to have bought three or more

Hondas in the last five years. This is stupid. Yeah, we

had a bunch of little things, you know, you had to be in

order to, you know, to be eligible. Yeah. You know, and

it's still sold out. Yeah. So I just think that that's

ridiculous. I mean, I under listen, Ferrari does the same

thing when you want to get some elite models, right? You're

going to go try to get an Enzo or a La Ferrari, like you have

to have a resume of Ferrari ownership and stuff like that.

The same thing happens with the four GTs, right? Like those

cars are massively would massively sell more than

they than they make, but they you have to have

previous ownership of one different things like that.

And I get that. But I mean, maybe not for a Honda prelude,

right? Like, you know, sorry, I get it. I get it. You got 2000

pieces, you got to start somewhere, right? But, you

know, look, if, if I'm building, if I'm the guy

that's in charge of building this prelude, like,

absolutely, you're right. I mean, maybe it doesn't have

to be a full blown out civic type R doesn't have to be

that what it's the F the F 20 C, right? Like,

are you talking about the engine? It's a key 20 C.

Okay, I'm sorry. Um, yeah. But it can be a derivative of

that, you know, sure. Exactly. Right. It doesn't have to be

exactly the same. But yeah, like I say, it's got to have

something there. Four cylinder turbo takes that thing, like

you said, maybe it makes 250 260 horsepower. But it's got

turbo gives you the little bit of that ability for the

aftermarket to get involved and make more. I think that

that's always a secret to a lot of these cars, right?

So there's, there's that. Then I think you have to go a

little bit further back to some of the styling. I think

they didn't really nail the prelude styling. I looked

weird. And they build these these renderings. And those are

the ones that usually end up getting circulated over the

internet, the same ones that your cousin brother and your

friend that doesn't that's not informed shows you and

says, did you see the new one that Honda released? And

you're like, that's not it. And they're like, no, it

is. And you're like, no, that's somebody that did a rendering

and you're like, and they're like, no, this is the one that's

coming out. And when I'm like, not even close, right? There's

that guy. So I guess what I'm saying is, why is it that all

of those people that go through that process of Oh, like, like,

like Jonathan Seibel and stuff like that, right? Yeah, like,

they develop these renderings that are so freaking on

par with what enthusiasts want and have a lot of the same

styling cues and and bring all these cool things. Why is it

that an OE doesn't ever just pay attention to that? Or try to

bring some of the who's guys in to do something that's just so

on par? You know what I mean? I think people have asked that

for years, especially someone like like a John Sebel who does

these incredible renderings. And they, you know,

sometimes they don't make complete sense because they're

way too low or there's carbon, you know, all the

place or whatever. But we understand. But yeah, yeah, he

kind of embellishing. But like, in terms of just the general

shape and design, they always look so good. And you would think

right, they would take those cues and you see what actually

comes out like the really looks a little bit, a little bit

goofy, but a little bit bold, this little bit strange, just

the design overall. But you know, it is what it is. But

we were talking about pricing is something that I found

interesting. The 2000 ish prelude, I think it was like

around 22 five back when it was new, right? Yeah, with

inflation today, it would be like 51 five. So that kind of

gives you an idea that I don't know if this car is actually

overpriced, it feels like it is to us. But really, it might

not be because that's just inflation.

But you know, here's the thing, we're dealing with

MSRP now, we don't know what market premiums are, we

don't know what people actually will spend for these

cars, especially with only 2000 pieces. However, I would

argue that today, that car being at let's say we we could

buy it for the sticker. I would argue that at $41,000. It's

not so bad. Because right, I don't have 41,000. But we're

never gonna sell 41, but at $41,000, it's not so bad. I

would also say that if I could buy a Civic Type R for

38, I think that's a steal at this point. But you can't get

one of those either. So don't worry about it. So my problem

is that this, you know, prelude was a car that we held near

and dear, I don't look at this car at all and see prelude at

all. No, no, I don't either. Nothing. But then again, I look

at the new RSX and I don't see RSX not either in this that

TV, right? Well, that's fair. Right? You know what I mean?

Like I don't see anything, any cues where you go, I guess

kind of like, maybe this or that, nothing, like no DSM

fan owns a Eclipse Cross. Right? Not one, I promise. I don't

even know if that's a factual statement, but I feel like it's

factual statement. I wonder, I mean, do you think that the

success of the of the Integra coming back led to them being

well, you know what? Why don't we do the prelude now?

Because it was it was so good with the Integra. I don't

know what the sales were on the Integra. I never

personally see them around. In my region, I'm in my own

little bubble. But here in SoCal, I don't see them

around. I've only seen one type that's in person. And I don't

just don't see them on the street at all.

I see a few of them. I mean, yeah, I've seen a few of them.

I here's the thing. I I think that car five, six, seven

years ago, maybe a little bit more now, would have

probably done better. I think that the SUV thing is

really distorting what cars actually sell at. Like even for

me, like, you know, daily driving, I don't I don't even I, for

some reason, driving a car to me is like, I feel like I'm

lost in a sea of other SUVs now, right? Right. So I think

there's that I mean, like the people the things that I

want to buy from a car perspective are gonna be

things I drive as, you know, maybe as weekend cars or

pleasure cars, quote unquote. I don't you know, I don't

really know. I mean, I just think that when you go to buy one

of these cars, do I think that a price makes sense at this

point? Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's I mean, with

inflation, it's it's right on it's right on par with

inflation that that's about where it should be in the

40s. Yeah, but but like when you start to think about

these cars coming back in a retro thing, they're

bringing back preludes, they're bringing back

integrals, they're bringing back these things. I think

it's that, you know, a lot of these car companies have

realized that, you know, there's no point to, you know, you

can build on nostalgia, you can you can build on that. But

why is it always like a game of telephone where, you

know, where they start on a concept or whatever it may

be, has, you know, four to five points. And by the

time they get to the end, it's got two out of five. You

know what I mean? Like, right? Why is it why do we

get so watered down? I mean, it might just be like, I can

only imagine it to be one or two ways. Either the first

way is there's the actual guy that came up with the

concept that sold this thing to everybody and

everybody's like, yeah, heroes, cheer, cheer, cheer,

put them up on your shoulders. This guy, he figured

it out, we're going to kill it. And then that same

guy sitting for three years of his life in the

corner of a room, while all these other people

say, oh, we should put a hybrid in it. And

they're like, wow, high five. And then this guy is

just bashing his head, like, or it's the other way,

which is like, you know, well, what are we going to

do now? Let's come out with it. We'll go back to

the prelude. Well, what else do we have this

commonality in, you know, in the kind of the

worldwide market segment? Well, we got this

platform, we could turn it into this. And we

got this hybrid system, we could dump it in

there. I don't know.

I think also look at it like, from their

perspective, if we come out with this, this

coop that is basically stealing the engine from

the Civic Hybrid, and we call it the Geel 6 or

some whatever name they come up with, right? Is

they going to hit as hard or have as much

attention if we put the prelude name on it,

but the prelude name on it, you get people

talking, right? Because there's a lot of

prelude fans out there. There's a lot of

people that had those cars in the past.

This way you get some height built, right? It

helps for sure. Let me let me propose one

other situation, because we did obviously

take it a little bit to the extreme by

throwing, you know, like, you know, the K20C

in there and different things in

hypothetical nature. Let's say they nailed

the exterior styling to be just a little

bit closer to maybe what made you feel

like it was a modernized last gen. I

think it was third gen prelude, right?

Right. Then instead of doing that, they

put the Accord two liter turbo engine

into this car. And, you know, I think

that that car would do fine.

I think the styling is the biggest, the

biggest factor. There's no tie in to the

old one. And I think you, I think you

lose a lot of the prelude fan base

that's been around for, I mean, for

decades, right? You lose a lot of them

when the car comes out and looks this

way. It doesn't have any kind of throw

back to to any of the generations prior

to, you know, there's nothing there. I

don't see it anyways. Right. Maybe

somebody else does. I've looked, I've

looked at the car a few more than a

few times. And I it's a possible

not to. It's all over my feet. It's

everywhere. Yeah, I mean, luckily I'm

not hot enough that maybe I'm not

hot enough that I that it's infiltrated

my feet yet. But yeah, I will say

that I just there's nothing that I

look at that car and I'm like, Oh, I

can see it. Nothing. Yeah, I don't

say anything. So I mean, I guess, I

guess time will tell. It's got to be

driven, right? And reviewed. And people

get an idea of what it can, can it

can't do. But there's not much to

really change it from the civic

hybrid that's already out. You do

have the suspension changes and the

break changes that you're getting

from the type R, which is really

cool. But is that enough?

I guess we're going to see. You

know, from a from a three quarter

looking down angle, the car has good

lines on the on the side. Like the

cars got good lines. It the problem

that I have is the front doesn't

really give you that feeling of like

anything. I do like the back they

kind of take the three they almost

take that like the new Z straight

back thing there as well. But then

the rear is just so bubbly. It's

just yeah, it's really round. Even the

front just really bubbly. If you

look at like, like all of the

previous generation preludes, they

all had a much more angular cut in

the rear, especially they're very

angular. I don't know. That's what I

liked about them. You know, a little

bit sharper. But you know, this is

years and years later. So I guess

it's got to have a more modern

design. Yeah. So I guess I guess

we should pose the question out there

to people listening or watching. What

does the does the prelude do it

for you? What do you think it

would have taken for this prelude to

be the prelude that would have done

it for you? And be realistic. Because

understand that like, you know, you're

not going to put like it would be

great if they made a real drive put

a V8 in it. You know what I mean?

Like, I didn't mean to make a real

drive. You know what I meant? Like,

you know, put a drivetrain in it

that's like completely uncharacteristic

for Honda. But like what would what

would what would make this car

something for you is a is a our

coupes? Are coupes that aren't like

super powerful sports cars? Are they

still a thing? Should they have just

gone on to do something different? I'm

curious to see what people's actual

reaction and do me a favor, try to

embellish a little bit more than or

elaborate a little bit more than just

saying pray there's trash. I would

like I would like to really hear what

some people have to say about this

car. But it's interesting. I feel I

feel every time I see one of these

cars, you know, nine and nine times out

of 10, I feel like it's just a totally

missed opportunity. Right. Right. But

then again, we're on the outside

looking in, right? We don't know what

Honda's doing. So for us, we think we

know it all right. But then if

you're if you're behind the doors

there, it might be completely

different. This is what has to be

done because of this, this and this

and I mean, there's a bunch of

moving pieces, right? It's easy to

say, make the prelude, you know,

faster than, you know, a bigger

engine type R more power all will

drive this than the other. But the

reality is maybe that's just not,

it's not a possibility. Yeah, I mean,

we get that kind of stuff with

wheels, right? Like all the time

people say, right, you should have

made it two pounds lighter. You're

like, that's not possible. Like it

can happen. Like you should have

made it this, you should have done

this, right? So I get it, like

they don't have the insight. We

don't have the insight. I mean,

the truth is, if you were to look

at renderings as they were

sketching them with whatever

they're using as inspiration behind,

maybe they nailed it. Like maybe

side by side, they feel from, you

know, with their design language,

you know, keeping their current

design language and moving

things forward, maybe they feel

they've got the best of all the

worlds combined in. They felt

really good about this car, you

know, and we just don't

understand that there is an

actual thing for people that

don't know that actually is

design language, they have

entire, you know, principles

and stuff that are in these

companies where they got to

keep this design language. So and

that's what allows you to feel

like, oh, that's definitely a Honda.

And that's definitely this. So

maybe when you factor in design

language and safety features and

platforms and what you can get

EPA and the whole thing. And maybe

like you said, it just comes

down to that's that's what the

recipe delivered.

Yeah, it could have been that

they you're looking at them

designing around the platform,

right? Because it's the global

platform. It's the same one that

that's used for everything. So

they had to build around that.

And maybe this is what the best

it could be. You know what I mean?

There was no way to incorporate

some of that older prelude stuff

into this, which is sad because

it doesn't make any sense to me.

Like I just that's really

lose me. If you're going to build

a modern prelude, you've got to

bring something from the older

prelude, some some sort of like

a design.

Can you go back up one one

quick second?

Why are they showing an insight

next to a prelude? I'm looking

at car and driver and they're

showing an insight next to a prelude.

And I'm thinking myself, if

that's the car you're trying to go

after you missed, that's why you

missed.

That's right.

You know, I don't

know. I just

I struggle to see it.

They bring back some of these old

preludes and I'm like, I don't

see the, you know,

but who knows?

I mean, but maybe maybe

if they had done this

and use the hybrid setup

and all that, but then it may

let's say it made two hundred

and ninety horsepower, for example.

And let's say two hundred and seventy

foot pounds or pound pound feet of

torque. What that have been

enough to kind of push people more

toward it. Because right now, the

two hundred horsepower thing, it's

odd because because Honda's played

it safe with that.

You know, the Civic Si

since the

since the EP three has always

been about two hundred horsepower,

two hundred horsepower ish.

And that was from the two liter

to the two point four liter, now

the one point five liter turbo.

It's always been in that

range, which is crazy for what is

that like twenty five years that

they've stayed in that same horsepower

range and they've never kind of veered

from it. I can understand now because

the type bar, they don't want to have

the Si and type are too close,

but it's a little a little strange

that would never bring that up

further than than that.

You know, the Japanese are very

efficient. They may have printed a

lot of flyers back in the day

that said two hundred horsepower and

they're still using them.

I don't.

Right, right.

I don't know.

Yeah, that's a that's a that's

an interesting piece. I'm not I'm

not really all together too sure.

I mean, look, here's the thing.

I feel like if I look at the prelude,

if you would have told me this was

the modernized Honda beat,

I probably would have believed you.

It actually does.

It could be anything.

There's nothing private about it,

right?

Because it could have just been a

whole, a whole new thing.

It could have just been, you know,

civic hybrid Coupe, right?

Never want to be like, all right,

cool. Right.

It's a hybrid Coupe.

Right.

So for those that are, again,

still with us, drop, drop your

comments down below.

I'm interested to hear what you have

to say.

So yeah, that's it.

Anything else to add on the prelude

before we get out of here, Matt?

No, I'm a little disappointed.

So I'm going to soak for a while.

We're going to end it on a level of

disappointment.

That's right. The theme for this

year. So I should probably take the

rest of the day off and just go

to soak.

Absolutely.

Of course.

That's right.

So all right.

Take care of everybody.

We'll catch you next week.

See you.

We'll be good, Max.

Will the new Honda Prelude FLOP? 🤔

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