Wayne Carini chats with legendary GM designer Ed Welburn at the Detroit Concours, diving into Ed's lifelong passion for design, motorcycles, and art. They share personal stories, including Ed's friendship with Tony Bennett and how music and sculpture influenced creativity. Ed reflects on his early inspiration from the Cadillac Cyclone concept and his journey to becoming GM's top designer. The conversation also touches on the beauty of motorcycles, the importance of artistic versatility, and Ed's ongoing creative projects post-retirement.
This time of year, Jay and Wayne are traveling around quite a bit visiting events everywhere. We catch up on what's been happening including the Audrain Concours, Velocity Invitational, Rennsport Reunion 7 and more.
At the Detroit Concours d'Elegance, Wayne sits down with design legend Ed Welburn for a conversation about friendship, experiences with motorcycles, Ed's friendship with musician Tony Bennett, an upcoming film project, their love for cars & design and their shared memories of growing up during an exciting time in history.
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"I was eight years old. It was the Cadillac Cyclone concept. Oh, wow."
The GMC Cyclone was a fast and sporty truck made about 30 years ago that could go really fast like a sports car but still carry things like a truck. The Cadillac Cyclone was a special show car from a long time ago that looked very modern and had cool features for its time.
The GMC Cyclone was a high-performance pickup truck produced in the early 1990s, known for its powerful V6 engine and sporty characteristics. It is often remembered for blending muscle car performance with truck utility, making it a unique vehicle in GMC's lineup. The mention of the Cadillac Cyclone concept refers to a futuristic concept car from the 1950s, which showcased advanced design and technology ideas.
"... up that thing. Basically, it could be based on a Mustang underbody or something."
The Ford Mustang is a famous car from America that looks sporty and goes fast. People like to use parts of it to build or change other cars because it's strong and easy to work with. Saying it has a Mustang underbody means the bottom part of the car is from a Mustang.
The Ford Mustang is an iconic American muscle car first introduced in 1964, known for its sporty design and powerful performance. It has a significant cultural impact and is often used as a base for custom builds or modifications due to its versatile platform. Mentioning a Mustang underbody suggests using its chassis as a foundation for another vehicle or project.
"And there's a beat-up 69 Corvette sitting there. You know, I was like, you know, that could be Jimi Hendrix. That's right. You know what I mean? You see him with the flat tire and dust and dirt. They're here and there. And the fiberglass is all kind of."
The 1969 Chevrolet Corvette is a famous sports car from America. It looks cool and goes fast, and many people like to collect or restore these cars.
The 1969 Chevrolet Corvette is a classic American sports car known for its distinctive styling and performance. It is part of the C3 generation, which featured a more aggressive design compared to earlier models.
"You see him with the flat tire and dust and dirt. They're here and there. And the fiberglass is all kind of."
Fiberglass is a strong but light material used to make car bodies. It helps the car be lighter and faster but can get damaged if not taken care of.
Fiberglass is a lightweight composite material used for car bodies, especially in classic sports cars like the Chevrolet Corvette. It is durable but can be prone to cracking or damage if not maintained.
""We talked about that today. And we talked about how going to car shows was such an experience.""
Car shows are like big meetups where people bring their cars for others to see and enjoy. It's a fun way to learn about different cars and meet other car fans.
Car shows are events where automotive enthusiasts gather to display, admire, and discuss cars, often including classic, exotic, and custom vehicles. They provide a social and educational experience for attendees to appreciate automotive design and history.
"And, you know, model T's were made in black. Yeah."
The Ford Model T was one of the first cars that many people could afford. It was made to be simple and easy to use, so lots of people could have a car and travel more easily.
The Ford Model T was an affordable and simple automobile produced by Ford Motor Company from 1908 to 1927. It is credited with revolutionizing the automotive industry by introducing assembly line production, making cars accessible to the general public.
"You know, Dodge brothers were down that way and they made fenders, you know."
Dodge is a car company started by two brothers who first made parts for cars and later built their own cars.
Dodge is an American automotive brand founded by the Dodge brothers, originally known for manufacturing car parts like fenders before evolving into a full car company.
"There were some really cool cars, cool hot rods. Ralph Gilles hauled me over to the Chrysler exhibit."
Hot rods are old cars that people change to make them faster and look cooler, often with big engines and special paint or parts.
Hot rods are classic cars, typically American, that have been modified for higher performance and distinctive styling, often with powerful engines and custom bodywork.
"Ralph Gilles hauled me over to the Chrysler exhibit. And he had to, you know, he had like six cars to pick out."
Chrysler is a car company from America that makes different types of cars and vans.
Chrysler is an American automotive brand known for producing a range of cars and minivans, historically part of the Chrysler Corporation and now under Stellantis.
"And then, of course, the George Barris AMC was there. That is so outrageous."
George Barris was a car designer who made famous and unique custom cars for movies and TV.
George Barris was a famous American custom car designer known for creating iconic vehicles for movies and TV shows, often called the 'King of the Kustomizers.'
"We haven't talked since I got back from Rensport reunion, which was the same weekend as a drain, unfortunately, but Rensport reunion for those who don't know is the largest Porsche gathering in the world."
Rensport reunion is a big event where lots of Porsche cars and fans get together to celebrate and show off their cars. It happens every few years and is very popular.
Rensport reunion is the largest Porsche gathering in the world, held every three or four years, featuring a massive collection of Porsche cars, racers, and enthusiasts at a major venue like Laguna Seca.
"Every single living racer who ever raced a Porsche, 917 racers and everything, it was all there."
The Porsche 917 is a very fast race car that Porsche used to win important races a long time ago. It is very special and famous among car fans.
The Porsche 917 is a legendary race car from the late 1960s and early 1970s, famous for its success in endurance racing such as the 24 Hours of Le Mans.
"because Rensport is a Porsche support. It's a factory supported event."
A factory supported event is one where the car company helps put on the event, bringing their own cars and people to make it special.
A factory supported event means that the car manufacturer, in this case Porsche, officially supports and organizes the event, often providing resources, cars, and personnel.
"We brought the original Sally Carrera, the 996 car that we built for cars."
The Porsche 911 (996) is a type of sports car made by Porsche between 1997 and 2006. It was the first model to have a water-cooled engine instead of air-cooled, which was a big change.
The Porsche 911 (996) is the generation of the Porsche 911 produced from 1997 to 2006, notable for being the first 911 with a water-cooled engine. It is often referenced in automotive culture and media.
"Another great event, Motorrad, which was part of BMW's display was outrageous. They did such a wonderful job. These new BMW motorcycles are fantastic, really out of sight."
Motorrad is the name BMW uses for its motorcycles. It's like a special part of the company that focuses on bikes.
Motorrad is BMW's motorcycle brand and division, showcasing their range of motorcycles and related events.
"The Velocity Invitational is pretty fantastic. The gentleman who puts it on, Jeff O'Neill, started this thing just out of this love of motorsport."
The Velocity Invitational is a special car racing event where people get to see cool race cars and famous drivers up close. It's smaller than big races, so it's easier to enjoy everything.
The Velocity Invitational is a motorsport event that features various racing cars and drivers, often including rare and high-performance vehicles. It is known for its intimate setting and unique access to racing legends and cars.
"First year, he did it was at Sonoma. And he somehow cajoled Mercedes to bring an F1 car and take it around the track instead of track record at Sonoma, which is phenomenal."
Sonoma Raceway is a race track in California where cars race on a winding road with hills and turns. Many big car races happen there.
Sonoma Raceway is a road course and dragstrip located in California, known for hosting various motorsport events including NASCAR, IndyCar, and club racing. It features a challenging layout with elevation changes and technical corners.
"And he somehow cajoled Mercedes to bring an F1 car and take it around the track instead of track record at Sonoma, which is phenomenal. ... So I think Zach Brown is coming out with Lando Norris. The F1 racer will be there."
Formula 1, or F1, is the top car racing series in the world where very fast and special race cars compete on different tracks.
Formula 1 (F1) is the highest class of international single-seater auto racing sanctioned by the FIA. It features the fastest and most technologically advanced race cars and some of the best drivers in the world.
Select text to request an explanation
Well, hello, everybody, and welcome to another Talking Classic Cars.
I'm Jay Ward.
And I'm Wayne Carini, and we are Talking Classic Cars.
Well, Wayne, it's good to see you again.
It's good to be back.
You know, I missed the Detroit Concorde this year.
There's just too many car events going on at the same time.
You got to see it, and I want to hear a little bit about the show, but more importantly,
you got a moment to sit down with Ed Welburn, a design legend from General Motors.
How was that?
You know, the Concorde was great.
It was wonderful.
But to be in the presence of all these great designers, and then, of course, he's sort
of like the king of the hill, Ed Welburn.
So, you know, Ed's always got a crowd around him, no matter where he goes, and I dragged
him over.
We were at a cocktail party the night before the show, and it was about five in the
afternoon.
I dragged him over to a picnic table, and we sat down for a few minutes, and I asked him
some questions.
So, I hope you enjoy the interview.
I enjoyed doing it and finding out some things I never knew about Ed Welburn.
So, I'm sitting here with my great friend, Ed Welburn.
Well, it is great to call you my friend.
I mean, you know, really, I enjoyed the time we spent together.
Of course, like, you know, so many people, I'm a fan of yours.
You know, I see you on TV, and I love the work you do.
The day, it was so interesting.
The day that I spent in your garage, earlier in that day, I'd been at a very high-end
collection.
And which I enjoyed.
Yeah.
It felt like my day began when I got to your garage.
Well, that's so nice of you to say that.
I mean, honest.
I swear to it, it was just because it's such a wide variety of cars, much wider than
I had ever thought.
I like everything.
And yeah.
And I could tell that.
I mean, cars and motorcycles, you know, I don't ride motorcycles.
I've only had one riding experience on a motorcycle, but I love motorcycles.
I love, because of the art, and just seeing all the mechanical things, you know, the engine
sticking out there, and the chain, and, you know, I've got 48 motorcycles, and I stopped
riding about 10 years ago.
I'd been in three accidents, and as I got older, I said, you know, I'm not going
to heal as easily as I used to, and I decided to stop.
I have a lot of friends who've had accidents, and that's why I don't ride.
The one time I rode, I'll never forget, I was 17, and my cousin and I were always
paddling around in the same age.
He lived in Philly, and I lived out in the suburbs, and I went and picked him up.
And this is in the 60s, and you can rent these little Honda.
Yeah.
Honda, I don't know what it was, Honda 50 something.
Yeah, the 50cc trails.
Very little.
And we rented one, put it in trunk of my car, took it to Fairmount
Park in Philly, and we told it ourselves how to ride a motorcycle.
Well, I started with a 50 stepfruits, remember the stepfruits?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They have that backbone, you know, and I bought that for $10, and that was my first motorcycle,
and my parents always told me, if you ever bring a motorcycle home, pack your bags and
leave.
And so I hid it in my friend's house, you know, and so I've been motorcycle
riding since I was, I don't know, 13 years old.
But I love them.
I don't own one, but I would own one or two, just for the beauty of them, they exposed me
to the council.
And every bit is so well done with some of them, right?
Yeah, yeah.
They're pieces of art, and they weren't made that way.
They were made as a piece of transportation, but the way that they designed them and made
them.
And they're certain ones like rough superiors and, you know, Vincent, black shadows, black
nights.
And they got on the...
Yeah.
They loved those names.
Yeah, yeah.
The names are really...
They set it all up.
Yeah, yeah.
So last night we went to dinner, and we were talking about musicians.
Yes.
And you know a certain person, didn't know a certain person.
I was so intrigued by that.
Tony?
Tony Bennett.
Tony Bennett was one of my favorites in the world.
I mean, he just...
He had class.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Style.
Such a gentleman.
You could tell.
I've never met him in my life, but I went to a couple of his concerts, and I was just...
Matter of fact, the last one I saw him at his daughter was playing with him.
Yeah.
He...
We met here in Detroit.
He was at a concert here in Detroit, and a friend of mine knew him quite well, and
we were able to go backstage.
And I was introduced to him, and he suggested that we all go for drinks.
And so it was six of us.
When I ended up, it was kind of a long table.
He and I were at one head, and I couldn't talk to the man about music.
I mean, he's, you know, this legend, but I knew that he painted, and I could talk to
him about paintings, about art.
And we talked, and we talked, and he said, you know, even though he had three paintings
in the Smithsonian, and had been painting for years, he still had an instructor.
And his instructor said, wanted him to do a piece of sculpture, because he thought
that doing sculpture would help him understand three-dimensional forms, which would help him
as he continued to do his paintings.
So Tony asked me what I thought of that, and what was my recommendation.
I said, well, you know, my background is design, my background really, sculpture, painting,
you know, working in clay.
And I said, you know, I think your instructor is absolutely right.
So he said, well, okay, I'll do one.
I'll do one.
And Tony and I got to be good friends, and he asked me to join his board.
His foundation supports public schools of the arts in New York.
And so I'm with him at one of the schools, and I'm giving a speech about design.
He takes me aside and says, okay, I did a sculpture, and he pulls out this photograph.
He did a sculpture, a bust of Harry Bell and Bonnie.
That was so good.
His very first piece of sculpture is that, I mean, it's not fair, this guy, he can sing,
he can paint, he does a piece of sculpture, purely because I told him to do it.
And it's wonderful.
You know what, I think that certain artists, they have a knack for most anything when
you're there at that level.
You know, if you picked up a brush and painted a painting, or you had a sculpture,
or you sing, you have the art in you.
The art is there with them.
When he turned 90, I gave him a set of cuff links with Leonardo da Vinci's
the proportion of man on it.
Because he was, I thought Tony was like the da Vinci of our time.
It certainly was.
We talked about sometimes him collaborating with other artists, too.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, you know, Lady Gaga.
He would take those artists to a level that, beyond where they had bought.
You know, when you sing or you perform with a legend, it brings you to that next level.
So Lady Gaga, for instance, she was known in a certain area of her expertise,
but all of a sudden it opened a new world for her.
It took her to a whole other level.
You know, one of the public schools in New York that he was very close to was his Sinatra school.
And he named it after his Sinatra.
And he spent hours in the theater working on the acoustics to get it just right.
Just hours, days, you know.
And in his final years on Alzheimer's, we've really taken him down.
And there were only a few people whose names he knew, didn't know my name.
He would do a concert in his apartment every day.
A pianist would come in and he would sing a full concert.
He knew every word, every note.
And then as soon as the piano stopped, he would shut down.
Wow, wow.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, there's certain things that we don't know about people.
And it's interesting to find those things out, you know.
Yeah, it would have been interesting.
I mean, he confessed to me that he never drove a car.
And he had a hard time doing that.
He just, he was like, because he knew I was, you know, cars were my world, you know.
He said, you know, I've never driven a car.
Wow.
Well, he was a young boy.
He grew up in New York.
Yeah.
And everything was local.
I mean, you know, people had lived in the pro or whatever it was.
I mean, that was your world.
And he didn't have a lot of money.
And he would take taxis or walk or take subways or, you know.
But when you're a little kid, you grew up in a borough at 10 blocks.
You're right.
It's your world.
There is no other world.
That is your world.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I had a designer who worked for me,
Sung Paik, whose parents were from Korea.
And he grew up in New York and a neighborhood like that.
But it was all Korean.
He said, everybody spoke Korean.
And he didn't speak much English at all.
Although he was born in the States,
he lived in this Korean neighborhood in New York.
That's where his roots are.
And he realized that it was important.
But he became this car crazy guy, though.
We love that.
We love that.
So what are you doing now?
What are you designing these days?
I mean, you know, you come from being
at the top of your game with General Motors.
I mean, the ultimate.
I mean, you couldn't go any further.
Well, within your first session, you
could have run the country, the company.
It's true.
I mean, you know, couldn't go any higher and design a GM.
And you know, there are a couple of thousand people
who are bored into me.
That had to be such a thrill for you.
I imagine you sat around at night sometimes
and said, I can't believe this has happened to me.
Well, yeah.
You worked hard at it.
I know that.
From the days when you told me the story
that you went to the automobile show right here in Detroit
and you went to the stand, you said,
I want to work for your company and tell that story.
Well, you know, it was actually, I like that version.
But it was Philadelphia.
Philadelphia, OK.
I was eight years old, crazy bad cars.
Parents took me to a Philadelphia auto show.
And we're walking through.
I love that it was like my Disney World, my fantasy land.
You know, the colors and lights and the music
and the shiny cars and this one car stopped me in my tracks.
And my mother's on my left and my father's on my right.
And I said, when I grow, I want to design cars
for that company.
I was eight years old.
It was the Cadillac Cyclone concept.
Oh, wow.
And I was a very slow reader as a kid.
And my mother tried everything, special classes,
all of these, you know.
And nothing helped.
And she said, this kid's crazy bad cars,
getting him car magazines.
And so by age 11, I had subscriptions to hybrid,
motor trend, sports car graphics.
I'd ride my bike down to the Datsun dealership
to get automotive news that was, no, auto week.
And it was a newspaper.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was a newspaper.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh my god, I love that.
And I'd read all of them, cover to cover.
And the one ads where, yeah, people
were selling engines and stuff in the back of auto weekend.
And that's how I learned how to read.
And at age 11, from reading Magnef,
I found out where that cyclone came from.
And I wrote them a letter.
And look at what happened.
Yeah, amazing.
So anyway, since I'm still as difficult for me
to file a retirement, I'm a pretty busy guy.
Since graduation, in general mode, we've changed jobs.
The creative juices haven't stopped.
They just kind of blossomed and leaned
in different directions.
I'm still, yeah, I still sketch cars a bit.
Every now and then, it was a thought that comes,
I'm going to show you going on a bit.
Well, you did it for my magazine.
You know, remember that, it's so glil, oh my god.
It's so cool.
You know, it all stemmed from looking at so many cars
today that have these big, bold, and frequently unattractive
front ends.
And I said, you know, it's all just ahead of its time.
And so I sketched up that thing.
Basically, it could be based on a Mustang underbody
or something.
And with the head so grilling, it just kind of,
it would just fit in so perfectly.
Oh, what?
Crazy enough.
Yeah, the design was great.
So any rate, I love writing for the magazine.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
I love writing for it.
I sketched shoes a lot, spent a lot of time.
I've sketched hundreds of designs for shoes.
They start off with sneakers, then into boots.
Women's shoes, high-end women's shoes.
You know, there's some people that say, you know,
you need to do something with this stuff.
I kind of feel like it's some of the best work I've done.
Really?
It is the shoe design.
You should go out and find someone.
Yeah, I know that.
So, and then beyond that, I've got a movie project
that I'm working on.
I, you know, I uncovered this story, a true story,
from the 1920s.
But somebody needs to make a movie about this.
And I'm talking to a friend, an easy movie producer.
But kind of early in her career,
she said, you know, you're right.
This should be a movie.
And Ed, you're the one that did it.
So, I formed Wellburn Media Productions.
Oh, great.
I hired a team of veteran writers and veteran movie producers.
And we have researched and developed the story.
The script is done.
It's been in the hands of script doctors
who have really done their thing, massaging it.
And we're now beginning to talk to directors and cast.
Wow.
Pretty exciting stuff.
Pretty exciting.
I've also, at most key, no one here knows this.
I won an Emmy last year.
I still can't believe it.
Tell us about that.
That seems like you're the man of the world.
I won an Emmy, you know, so among all these other things
that I've got there's an Emmy that suits you.
I still can't believe it's hard for me to say.
So what was that for?
For a special that I did with PBS.
And it was actually started off to be a story about me.
And I got so involved in how the story was done
that when they won an Emmy for it,
I received the name.
Wow.
You won an Emmy.
So last night you showed me the trophy room of your neighbor.
Yes.
Mario Andretti.
Yes.
But Mario doesn't have an Emmy.
No.
No, but you know he has an Oscar.
Does he?
I'm walking through Mario's trophy room one day.
Mario, you have an Oscar.
It's a great story.
He said Paul Newman used to get nominated for an Oscar
quite often and would never win.
And he and Mario were close.
And this one particular year, Paul Newman got nominated yet again.
And Mario was excited for it.
Paul said, yeah, I'm not even going.
I'm not going.
I get nominated all the time I never win.
I'm not going.
He said, but it's a good party.
Mario, why don't you do it?
If you can't, why don't you do it?
Mario won't.
Paul Newman won.
So Mario calls him.
Receives the Oscar for it?
Yeah, yeah.
So Mario's excited for him.
Calls him.
Wants to know where do you want the trophy delivered,
which house or whatever.
Paul says, you keep it.
Wow.
So he has an Oscar.
Paul was like that.
I mean, I met him at a pizza place in Willamanna,
Connecticut, when he was building the Hole in the Wall
Gang, the retreat for the cancer kids to go to the summer camp.
I mean, he worked there.
It's not like he loaned his name.
He'd go there all the time and work all day.
And then wanted some alone time.
So he'd go to this little pizza place in Willamanna,
Connecticut.
And my friend and I would go there on a motorcycle.
It was to play foosball on Friday nights.
And he was sitting there with Paul Newman.
And we became friends.
We sat and asked if we could talk to him one night.
And then two weeks later, we went again.
And he was sitting there again.
He said, hey, guys, how you doing?
I was just like, that's Paul.
Then we just sat pie to me.
And that seeded that really made a difference in my life.
Because I always adored Paul Newman.
He was an actor and a person who
he was that had the tenacity to leave Hollywood
and have a normal life in Connecticut
with Joanne Woodward.
And then so now I own Paul Newman's Volvo station wagon
that he built.
He built one for himself, one for David Letterman,
and one for his accountant.
And I have actually called Newman's car.
I mean, I've heard of the car.
I've seen it in Polozo, yeah.
Pretty cool.
That's a good thing to say.
That 3024, where the Kennedyville Supercharger
in a five-speed.
He didn't want people to recognize him
in a Mercedes or a Ferrari.
He drove a Volvo station wagon, but he wanted it fast.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wow.
I mean, Mario still lives in Nazareth.
I mean, he has lived there.
Right around the corner from you.
Yeah, not far.
And he never left Nazareth.
That's great.
With all that he has done around the world.
I mean, you know, home is home.
When your family's one place you're attached to your family.
Yeah, yeah.
You don't tend to move.
I mean, a lot of people do.
Yeah.
But it's like me.
They say, why aren't you in California?
Why aren't you over here over there?
I said, because I really love where I live.
Yeah, yeah.
I look out my door and it's beautiful.
And it's a price for everything.
I know.
And you're the same person.
Where I live is so comfortable, so peaceful.
You know, why am I there?
I question that sometimes.
But I can walk in any restaurant in New York City
in 90 minutes.
Yeah.
Or in Philadelphia.
You see, so there's there.
And the same with me.
We live two hours from Boston and two hours from New York
City.
Yeah.
You know, the epicenter of the world right there.
And so there is a price for that.
Well, talk about Jimi Hendrix first.
Sure, let's talk about Jimi.
I found that his last car was the core of that.
I started digging into that.
Because, you know, you drive around Allentown, Bethlehem.
You get to see these low-use car lots.
And there's a beat-up 69 Corvette sitting there.
You know, I was like, you know, that could be Jimi Hendrix.
That's right.
You know what I mean?
You see him with the flat tire and dust and dirt.
They're here and there.
And the fiberglass is all kind of.
Well, a 69 Corvette wasn't something
that is like a 63 Corvette.
Right, right.
I mean, there were cars.
Yeah.
A lot of people put them to the side.
Yes.
And they were never restored.
Yeah.
They still haven't been restored.
A lot of people are starting to restore it.
Because I think they're good here.
Oh, it's the.
The Copado Lurkin and the Chrome Bumpers.
For the longest, a lot of people didn't care for it.
But yeah, younger people really like that generation.
That's one of their favorites.
But anyway.
So when did he buy it?
Well, first he had a 68.
Which he totaled the first day he had it.
And then he swore, OK, I'm going to be more respectful.
So by the time his manager got him another one,
the 69 had come at it.
And he got a 69 Big Blonde.
And he babyed it.
And drove it for a while.
But he was in Europe a lot.
So he didn't drive it a lot.
And then he dies.
And it went through different hands.
The last I could trace it.
So street racers had it in Brooklyn.
They're using it for street racers.
They didn't know it was Hendrix.
Wow.
They didn't know.
And it appears, it gets real sketchy,
that possibly the car got parted out.
But I'd chase that.
But you never know.
I'd chase that.
You never know.
Oh, yeah.
Jimmy was, of course, he was our idol for so long.
Because he was such a really great artist,
but a soft-spoken person.
Didn't want really to be in the spotlight a lot.
He wanted to go out and perform.
And that was it.
Yeah.
That's what I understand.
I always found it interesting, even back then,
every one of his albums, there was always a song or two
where other members of the band were at the front.
They did the vocals.
He shared the spotlight with them.
Well, Jimmy had a great career in psychedelic-style music.
But my two's best song is The Wind Cries Mary
and Castle's Made of Sand.
Those two songs, to me, they're just short.
But they get to the meat of the subject about life.
Wind Cries Mary is about life.
And Castle's Made of Sand, I have an autistic daughter
who never reminds me of that.
When you just think that you're going to solve an issue,
the water comes and takes that away.
And so the thing that's interesting is I'm a Spotify
junkie.
And if you were to put in that title, Castle's Made of Sand,
of course, Jimi Hendrix were.
But there are other people who have done it.
And they were all really well done.
Really?
Really well done.
The London Philharmonic is, then, I think a couple
that they've done Led Zeffelin's.
But, uh, so many great artists out there.
And we grew up in a hell of a good time.
Yeah.
You know, of life, of everything in the world.
I think, you know, when we grew up, it was so.
The cars were unbelievable.
The cars were incredible.
You know, the shapes.
We talked about that today.
And we talked about how going to car shows
was such an experience.
So, Ed, we're here at the Detroit Concord.
And it's always fun to be here in Detroit.
I mean, this is a wonderful venue.
But it's where you spent a lot of time.
I spent a lot of years here.
Yeah.
A lot of years.
When I came here to Detroit, I think
was really at a real low point.
It was a tough city, a great city.
You know, I remember long unemployment lines and all
that I remember.
As a young designer, everyone talked about, you know,
the ax man, because there were layoffs coming.
The ax man was coming closer and closer.
I never got laid off, but it came close.
And there were highs, there were lows in the city.
Highs and lows in the auto industry.
A lot of highs.
So many things that were like a dream for me.
And it went by in a flash.
I mean, 44 years.
That's unreal.
You know, if you really think about it,
the car's been around about 130 years.
The automobile, gasoline-powered engine, vehicles.
And how far it's come in that short period of time.
If we look at people, oh, that's such a long time.
No, no, no.
I mean, we're talking thousands, hundreds of thousands
of years, this planet has been here, and civilizations.
And to create what we've created in such a short period of time,
it's just amazing.
And that period of time, you're absolutely right.
I mean, that period of time is just like an instant,
you know, in the history of the world.
That's right.
And for like striking a match in that little shit.
Yeah.
And for automobile to evolve and to do what it has done
and have such an effect on the culture.
Well, I think, you know, Henry Ford had a lot to do with that.
You can think what you want to think about Henry Ford.
Yeah, I did.
But he wanted society to see the country.
He wanted to see people, have people see the country.
And that's what he said.
He wanted to design the car for.
He fought with his son, Edsel Ford, you know,
and said, you know, Edsel wanted to be about style
and grace and beauty.
And he said, no, we're going to make a car
that's simple, simple to use and cheap.
And, you know, model T's were made in black.
Yeah.
Specifically, so that it could dry faster
going down the line.
Black paint dried faster than any other color.
I didn't realize that.
You never knew that.
Yes.
So black paint dries faster than any other color.
And that's what he wanted.
Speed and efficiency.
Yeah.
Well, when you think about it, as you sit here,
we're here on Woodward Avenue
and there are little shops all over town
back in those days.
Oh, yeah.
You know, Dodge brothers were down that way
and they made fenders, you know.
And they involved into car companies.
Yeah.
In Indiana, there was over 100 car companies
at one time in Indiana.
Wow.
And these were guys trying it out in their backyards.
Yeah.
Some had bigger shops.
Yeah.
But everybody got into that.
And the Industrial Revolution, to me,
after going to the Ford Museum
for probably the 30th time yesterday.
I mean, I understand that.
You know, we're trying so many different things
but it changed the world.
Yeah.
It changed the world.
So really great to see you.
Yeah, it's good to see you.
Nice to be here with you.
It's fun to be a part of it.
I mean, this little town that we spent together
is going to buy like a flash.
It sure does.
It sure does.
But we'll extend it as long as we can.
Enjoy the weekend.
Here's to your health.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Wow.
What a fascinating interview.
You know, Ed is this man of many talents, many mysteries.
And the fact that he had this connection to Tony Bennett,
I just, I did not see that coming.
I would have never known that.
And it's amazing that you got that story out of him.
That's what makes so interesting,
sitting down and talking to people.
Because you see him in one type of an environment sometimes.
And all you talk about is cars.
I've heard a car show.
But to sit down with him, you
have to see him in one type of an environment sometimes.
I mean, I've heard a car show.
But to sit down with somebody just one on one sort of having
a beer and just shooting the crap.
I mean, that's what really makes these interviews so cool
and so intuitive to find out some cool things
about that person that would never have come up.
Yeah.
So what else was great about Detroit?
Because I missed it.
What were some of the highlights for you?
They do it right in downtown by the Detroit Institute
of the Arts, right?
Yes.
Yeah.
There were some really cool cars, cool hot rods.
Ralph Gilles hauled me over to the Chrysler exhibit.
And he had to, you know, he had like six cars to pick out.
And he and his fellow judge couldn't quite
make up their mind which should win their class
because it was so, the judgy was so tight with the scores.
Certain classes just had such great cars in them.
And then, of course, the George Barris AMC was there.
That is so outrageous.
It's so cool.
And that's what you see.
You know, a lot of auto Ramacars come to that show.
A lot of factory cars.
The new Cadillac was there.
So it was kind of cool to see that.
And then, of course, the Best in Show,
there was such great competition for that.
But, you know, Ted Stahl's a great Delahe won the class.
And it's just a wonderful car.
So always great to go to Detroit, see our friends
in the automotive industry.
Every one of them is just terrific.
And then to be at a concor and Hagerty just
does a great job putting it on.
Yeah, good times.
I'm going to be there next year.
So what have you been doing?
Where you been?
I've been at a lot of places, both for work and for fun.
Lots of car things going on and swirling.
We haven't talked since I got back from Rensport
reunion, which was the same weekend as a drain,
unfortunately, but Rensport reunion for those who don't know
is the largest Porsche gathering in the world.
This was the seventh one.
They only happen every three or four years.
The last one was pre-pandemic 2018.
And they had 91,000 people at Laguna Seca for the weekend.
It was phenomenal.
Every car that you could ever imagine,
every single living racer who ever
raced a Porsche, 917 racers and everything,
it was all there.
And just a phenomenal weekend of racing
and on stage personalities and lectures,
car reveals, they really knocked out of the park
because Rensport is a Porsche support.
It's a factory supported event.
And I can't even imagine the logistics it took for them
to put this together.
But I really had a good time.
We brought the original Sally Carrera, the 996 car
that we built for cars.
We brought the life-sized Lightning McQueen
so they were together.
And then the Sally Special, which
you and I have talked about, the gentleman who bought that car
brought it up for Rensport.
So it was really cool to see it again as well.
That's great.
That's great.
Well, I've been down to the Barbara Museum,
to the motorcycle races down there.
Another great event, Motorrad, which was part of BMW's display
was outrageous.
They did such a wonderful job.
These new BMW motorcycles are fantastic, really out of sight.
And then I did a panel discussion.
So it was a great event.
I love it down there.
And of course, I swear every time I go,
I'm not coming home with anything.
I came home with another motorcycle this year.
So by the way, it says, who's that for?
I said, it's for Connor.
Oh, of course.
Oh, no.
Can't reach the pedals, but that's fine.
Yeah, the Andrean was great, a little wet on Saturday.
But everything came together for the Concor.
On Sunday, just a wonderful group of cars.
They keep improving that the cars come up
from all over the country to go to that show.
But what I like is that they don't lose the feeling
of a local car show, too.
So you've got, you know, you've got Duzenbergs and Packards
and all these unbelievable cars coming to the show
from California, Florida, everywhere
across the United States.
But yet, they want to make sure that they recognize
local people and their cars, too.
So it's not just like a very big exclusive thing that,
you know, it's sort of like Kevel Beach.
They want to make sure that it really recognizes
the local flavor.
So yeah, it's doing that.
And then I'm going out your way.
And hopefully, I'm going to see, I'm
going to go to Velocity event at Sonoma.
I'll be there, too.
You'll love it.
I'll be there, too.
Yeah.
The Velocity Invitational is pretty fantastic.
The gentleman who puts it on, Jeff O'Neill,
started this thing just out of this love of motorsport.
First year, he did it was at Sonoma.
And he somehow cajoled Mercedes to bring an F1 car
and take it around the track instead of track record
at Sonoma, which is phenomenal.
I got to see that.
It moved to Laguna Seca for the last, I guess, two years.
And now it's back at Sonoma again,
which I'm really excited about.
It's a smaller track than Laguna Seca.
But I think it also makes the event feel more cohesive,
in my mind, for the size of the event.
He's going to have, I think, McLaren is partnered with it.
So I think Zach Brown is coming out with Lando Norris.
The F1 racer will be there.
So it should be a pretty cool weekend.
It should be.
I'm so excited about going.
I'm giving a talk at the California Automobile
Museum in Sacramento on Friday.
And then Saturday morning, we're huffing it over
to Sonoma Raceway.
And we'll be part of that event.
So we look forward to seeing you on Saturday over there.
OK, sounds good.
Well, let's wrap up this week.
It's been a great visiting again with you.
And hearing from Ed Welburn was just such a great thing.
Well, we have many other things coming.
Chatnula, we're going to be talking about that
on our next show.
Yeah, we'll both be there, which will be exciting.
Yeah.
Take care, Jay.
All right.
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