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You cannot trust any dealer price on their website...even mine...here is why and what to do about it
You cannot trust any dealer price on their website...even mine...here is why and what to do about it
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About this episode
Navigating car dealership pricing can be tricky, and Lenny Lawson emphasizes that online prices are often misleading due to various factors like location-based rebates and hidden fees. He shares insights on how to protect yourself when buying a car, including the importance of getting written quotes and understanding trade-in values. Lenny also discusses the nuances of dealership practices, identity theft concerns, and the significance of building relationships with local dealers. His guidebook offers valuable tools for making informed decisions in the car buying process.
Topics:
dealer pricing
rebates
trade-in values
identity theft
written quotes
local dealerships
car buying tips
financing options
extended warranties
guidebook resources
Email Lennie at [email protected]
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Ford F150
"There's always variables. For example, if you go to my website and you look, let's say you're trying to buy an F-150 and we have, we don't, but let's say that we did have a $1,500 rebate on that."
Car
Ford Acons Ford
"...that rebate. I was looking at a dealership called Acons Ford. They're one of the biggest Ford diggers in the n..."
Car
Honda Odyssey
"...u get out there, and you're trying to buy a Honda Odyssey. And you think you have it nailed down,"
Car
Ford F350
"just hit $50,000, the average. I mean, we sold a F-350 the other day, it was $107,000. Of course, they paid cash for it."
Select text to request an explanation
Okay, so I'm going to make a very bold statement at the beginning of this podcast slash radio show.
You cannot trust any price online by any dealer, including me.
Why do I say that?
Variables.
There's always variables.
For example, if you go to my website and you look, let's say you're trying to buy an F-150
and we have, we don't, but let's say that we did have a $1,500 rebate on that.
That depends on where you live.
If you live in certain area codes, you can get that rebate.
But if you saunter up here from Florida, you may not qualify for that rebate.
I was looking at a dealership called Acons Ford.
They're one of the biggest Ford diggers in the nation.
And if you scroll all the way down, after you find a price, you find a vehicle, you
find a price on the vehicle and has a little asterisk beside it.
Always look for the asterisk.
And if you scroll all the way down, it says, not applicable to residents of New York
or California.
Matter of fact, I think it says, we don't sell cars to folks in New York or
California.
I don't blame them.
No, I really do.
I mean, it's, you know, don't discriminate.
Right?
OK, let's see.
Oh, I forgot to introduce myself.
Lenny Lawson, the car guru.
Thanks for joining or joining up and or listening.
OK, so went to the podcast website.
And right now I've got 456 podcasts of anywhere from 23 to 23 and a half
minutes long.
So if if you, I mean, how many topics are there to talk about when it comes
to cars?
Do I repeat myself occasionally?
Yes, I do.
And there's a reason for that.
It's called the difference between a rut and a grave.
You can get out of a rut.
And many of you are in ruts, especially when it comes to your car life.
You know, there's a lot of folks out there, mostly guys, that say, I don't
need any help from no car guru.
I've bought 10 or 15 cars in my lifetime.
Well, you know, I've sold probably, I don't know, a couple of hundred
thousand.
Well, not personally.
I've done it through my employees.
But yeah, I've got some techniques.
I've got some things that you can do to improve your car life, improve your
life in general, especially if you borrow money, if you are negligent
in managing your finances.
I try to get young people off to a good start so that they don't have
to be corrected, you know, so that we don't have to change any habits.
Let's just create some good ones.
That's what needs to happen.
Just get started off right, folks.
You know, if you want to buy a car and if you want to go out, you graduate
from college, you've never had any credit, you walk into a dealership,
you're all proud of yourself for your degree in sociology.
And so you're going to, thinking you're going to go out and get a job,
you walk into a dealership to buy a car, you can't buy a car.
Not unless you have a co-signer.
A lot of people don't know that.
And even a co-signer won't help if you don't have adequate income.
And once that massive student debt shows up on your credit report, you know,
banks are going to look at that and say, nah, we're not going to stick our
neck out for this dude, dudeette.
People just don't know this stuff.
So it requires repetition.
Or you can just download the My Car Guru guidebook.
I'll send it to you.
It's real simple, it's 26, 27 pages long.
And I'll send it in the form of a PDF.
All you have to do is send me your email address to 423-552-2020.
And that'll solve most of your problems.
But there's nuance, folks.
Lots and lots of nuance, lots of variables.
Deception is all over the place.
Not just in the car business, but pretty much everywhere.
You know, people give car dealers a hard time.
You just need to stop.
I mean, there's some bad apples, for sure.
But my goodness, what I see on TV and the way seniors are abused
with all of these different offers and all these drug companies advertising,
it's just overwhelming.
And then you've got these elderly folks who still have a home phone
and they are just harassed beyond all reasonableness.
It's just crazy.
So, for example, you buy a car.
You've been at the dealership.
Oh, I'll say you were there a couple of weeks ago.
And you just bought it.
It's brand new.
But about a month later, you get this letter in the mail.
Urgent, time-sensitive.
You open it up, says that your warranty is about to expire.
What?
My warranty can't be ready to expire?
Well, it's not.
But they make you think it is.
And it's a warranty solicitation or extended service contract.
Solicitation, trying to get you a buy a warranty.
I thought, honey, didn't we buy one?
Didn't we pay extra for a warranty?
Yes, you probably did.
But these people don't know it.
And so you get it in the mail.
And if you don't respond, you get a phone call.
It could come to your cell phone.
I don't know how they get that information.
You know, what information are you sharing at the dealership?
I see customers all the time over my career.
We try to be very careful about that now.
But a salesperson takes a credit application,
gets all this confidential information, name address,
phone number, where your mortgage is, how much you make,
where you work, what your Social Security number is.
And then they walk off, leave it on the desk,
and just go out and start driving cars.
Or the salesperson is taking the credit application.
And they're out there right next to the service customer
lounge.
And they're saying, what's your Social Security number?
Let's see.
It's 4123.
Just right out there in front of everybody,
there could be some dishonest person jotting it down.
You just don't know.
And that's one way to get your identity stolen.
It's all there.
So we have multiple levels of protection in our dealership.
We didn't used to.
I mean, that's kind of what we did
until we started seeing a lot of this in the news where
people were getting their identity stolen.
They were blaming car dealers because of the lax
control over credit applications.
So we lock them up.
And they're immediately turned into a manager
who keys them in to the computer system
so that the bank can look at their credit, make a call,
as far as whether they're going to finance it or not.
And then that goes into a folder into our office, which
is behind a combination lock.
And when it's finally stored, we
have to keep those records for a certain number of years.
It goes upstairs into a storage room
that also has a combination lock on the door.
So when you bought that Hyundai, or sorry,
Stellantis, no, sorry, Chevrolet at that dealership
a couple of months ago, what happened to your credit
application?
Did some sales manager use it as a napkin?
Or is it sitting in some drawer at a salesperson's desk
and in there with his breath mints and mirrored sunglasses?
Could be.
That's what happens.
OK, I'll take my first break.
I'll be back in just a minute.
OK, so my opening premise was that you cannot trust any prices
online, including mine.
Why?
Because of variables, because of the way
the prices are quoted.
We had a meeting with my advertising agency.
We just ended it a couple minutes ago.
Well, maybe 30 minutes ago.
And we talked about a whole bunch of different things.
But the primary thing we talked about was pricing.
And so we pull up multiple competitors.
We looked at probably four or five different Ford dealers
in our region, including a couple that are not in our region,
big dealers in how they price vehicles.
And then we looked at the same number of Nissan dealers.
And we want to be competitive,
but we want to be clear.
We want folks to be able to look at a price.
And if they're interested in it, be
able to come into the dealership and it be consistent.
We don't want surprises.
But that's what it's all about, is surprising people.
Once you get them in, then you can surprise them.
Because they're here and they don't want to leave.
They expect that from a lot of car dealers.
Let's say you drove 900 miles.
And when you get there, the whole game changes.
You thought all the fees were included.
No, they're not included in that price.
Well, what's this extra charge for?
Well, that's our protection package.
I forgot to mention that to you.
What?
I just drove 900 miles.
Well, I'm real sorry about that.
But we can't really do anything about it.
Maybe I get them to cut it by half.
And because of the effort that they have put in to get
there, then they go ahead and succumb to the pressure.
And then they come back home and lie
about how much money they saved at that other dealership
because they don't want to look like fools.
And they're not.
They're really not fools.
They've been deceived.
And so how do you avoid this?
Well, I'm going to tell you how.
Number one, you get it in writing.
You have them fax you what the prices are.
And you make sure that it is signed
by a manager of the dealership.
You just tell them, say, OK, Mr. Salesperson,
I appreciate you very much.
And you've been really nice.
But not only do I want the numbers that
include all the fees and taxes, or of course, you buy it out
of state, you're not going to pay sales tax.
But all the numbers, what you're
going to pay me for my trade, and I
want you to put anything on there that could be different.
If there's anything like, well, you know,
it's subject to final appraisal of your trade,
I can understand why a dealer would want to do that.
I don't want to appraise a car over the phone.
I don't want to look at pictures because customers, you know,
sometimes they'll accidentally lie.
They'll forget something.
Oh, yeah, I did have an accident a couple of years.
I forgot about that.
Yeah, I just paid somebody to fix it.
I didn't turn it into my insurance.
That's why it doesn't show up on the car fax.
Oh, yeah, we did hit a deer, came through the windshield.
You know, they forget.
That's why you have to see the car.
So I would ask them, well, how much of a range
do you think this will be?
You know, you don't want to drive 900 miles and find out
they're going to give you 5,000 less for your trade
than what they quoted you.
They shouldn't miss it by that much.
Now, let's say that your tires are more
worn than what you described.
You know, you really need to go out there and measure them.
Say they have 4.30 seconds of an inch all the way across,
or 7.30 seconds of an inch.
Now, you can measure it.
All you need is a ruler, and you can check that out.
And then you eliminate excuses.
Make sure that you remember all the accidents that you had.
You know, if there's some really big stains in the seats,
or the leather's torn, or there's a star in the windshield,
and you didn't tell them that, that's
going to cost you money, you have to understand that.
But as far as the selling price of the vehicle,
that shouldn't change.
There shouldn't be any extra packages that you have to buy.
So you get a quote on the vehicle.
Remember the four targets, you buy the vehicle first.
You get a price on the vehicle that you're
trying to buy, regardless of the trade-in.
If you decide not to trade, you still get that price.
Now, when you bring your trade-in,
they're going to finagle a little bit.
In many cases, they're going to try to get your trade a little bit cheaper.
Even though they're willing to put the same amount of money in it,
they're going to try to get you a little bit cheaper.
Why?
To enhance the gross profit on the deal.
That's why.
That's what they're trained to do.
Some dealerships operate that way.
So get the firm sale price, get the trade-in,
subject to whatever they say it's subject to.
If you are financing it, get all that handled up front.
Know what your credit looks like.
Know what kind of a loan you qualify for.
They're going to try to finance you at that dealership
out there 900 miles away.
I can promise you, because they make more money when you finance it.
They get a flat fee, or they get a percentage
of the amount financed.
They also can sell extended service contracts.
They can sell gap insurance, protection packages,
wheel and tire, dent and ding, paint and fabric.
There's all kinds of things they can sell you.
You get out there, and you're trying to buy a Honda Odyssey.
And you think you have it nailed down,
and when you show up, they say, well, I've got it.
We forgot it.
We put a luggage rack on this thing.
Take it off.
I don't want it.
Well, we can't take it.
Yes, you can.
You can take it off.
Well, yeah, we accidentally put a trailer hitch on it.
Take it off.
I don't want it.
I'm not paying for it.
You've come all that way, and they
think you're going to cave.
Just hold firm.
They'll cave.
I promise you.
They'll cave.
But most customers don't.
They just get all upset.
And then they finally calm down, and they get all excited
about the car, and then all is forgotten.
That's one of the reasons I say, don't go 900 miles to buy
a car.
Get your price 900 miles away if you want to.
Nail the figures down.
Make sure you've got all your ducks in a row.
And then take it to your local dealer and say,
listen.
I've got this price.
This is what they're willing to sell it for.
It's in writing.
It's signed by the manager.
Will you meet it or at least get close?
I think that's being reasonable.
Sometimes those diggers that are 900 miles away,
they'll promise anything just to get you to go that far.
They've got their local business.
That's pretty much what they can live on.
This extra business from out of state, that's gravy.
You don't want to be gravy.
You want to be important.
And I truly believe you're better off buying it
from the local guy.
You get to know the salesperson, maybe the sales manager.
They introduce you to the service advisor.
When you come in to get your oil change,
you're not a stranger.
You go back and you develop a relationship.
That's the way you do business.
That's the way things are supposed to be.
Relationships matter.
And when you've gone back to that dealership
and you get all your service work done,
and the next time you get in the market for a car,
you know everybody.
You walk in there, you know you're going to be treated fairly
unless they've had a wholesale termination event at the store.
And that does happen.
When you see a dealership, well, I'm
trying to think of something that's changed hands recently.
There's a Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram dealer in Johnson City
that changed hands.
It went from one name to another.
Well, do they have the same people?
Maybe the salesperson that sold you your car
is no longer there because he can't make money
under their new pay plan.
Or he doesn't like the new managers or whatever.
There's all kinds of little nuance
when it comes to car dealerships and what
happens when they change hands.
And I think that's a big point of concern for it
would be for me if I'm buying from a dealership
and then I want to go back in and do business with them
again, totally new system, totally new process.
They don't know me from Adam.
I don't know if I can trust them.
They use Foursquare negotiating techniques.
And I'm just, when I see that, when you see that,
when you see the blank piece of paper with four boxes on it,
since they lay that in front of you,
what did I tell you to do?
Run, get out of there, or just say, no.
I'm not doing the Foursquare.
What do you mean, this is the way we do it?
Well, I'm not buying a car from you
if you're going to use that.
Get me a deal sheet, get me a buyer's order
that has a breakdown of all the prices, fees, everything.
And then we'll talk about the other things later.
What about the payment?
I don't care about the payment at this point.
I want to know what I'm paying for the car.
Folks, that is so easy.
That is, that's not rocket science.
And that's really not being mean.
They're the ones being mean
because they're trying to take advantage of you
with this Foursquare.
And I mean, it just,
it has given so many car dealers a bad name,
all car dealers, really,
because Foursquare is a deceptive method
to get you to focus on things that aren't important.
Yes, I know that the payment is important,
down payment, stuff like that,
but those are variables that the fixed number
you need to get is what do you get,
what are you paying for the car?
What are you getting for your trade?
Then you can talk about the other things.
Okay, I'll be back in just one minute.
Okay, so the MyCarGuru guidebook
gives you all of this,
all of these tools that you can use for free.
All you have to do is send me your email address,
text it to me, 423-552-2020,
and I'll turn it around.
Just quit, well, if you hit me at night,
it'll be the next morning, but you'll have it.
And if you read through it,
you don't have to read it word for word,
there's an introductory letter,
and you know, talked about the philosophy
of certain things, and you don't need it all,
maybe at one time,
but I would just be familiar with the chapters,
go to the table of contents,
and see what each chapter is,
and if you're getting ready to go out
and do one of those things,
like you wreck your car,
go to the Body Shop section,
getting ready to buy a used car,
go to the Used Car section.
You need to negotiate.
Look at the Negotiation section.
You know, financing a car, credit issues.
You know, it's all in the table of contents.
When I first put the book together,
for some reason or another,
I called the table of contents the index,
and I handed it to my daughter,
and she brought it back, said that's not called
the index, index is at the end of the book.
This should be called the table of contents.
And I said, I knew that.
I just forgot.
Now, if you're like most people,
you know, you don't buy cars every day,
or every month, or every year.
I've got some friends that buy two or three a year,
and they're just, they're absolute car crazy.
But most people don't do that.
The average trading time used to be 42 months,
and I think it's gone a little bit longer
because it's had to.
People are financing cars for 84 months,
and thank goodness cars are lasting longer,
but most people's trade cycles,
you know, this is a habit that they've been in.
They get a new car every three years.
Well, you can't get a new car every three years
and not expect to be upside down
if you don't pay at least 25% down
and finance it for maybe 72 months.
But with average car payments,
somewhere around $1,000 a month
on some of our best-selling vehicles,
I mean, the average selling price of a car
just hit $50,000, the average.
I mean, we sold a F-350 the other day, it was $107,000.
Of course, they paid cash for it.
You know, some people can actually do that.
They're usually older or they've won the lottery.
But the same things going on with houses,
I look at these houses that are just completed
near our house.
I drive around, Taren, I drive around and look at houses,
and we say, I wonder what that one is selling for.
We'll come back and look it up.
And it just looks, to me, looking at it,
it looks like a 300, $350,000 house.
No, it's $700,000.
So I'm very hopeful that the rates will continue
to be cut by the Fed, that mortgage rates will come down
because housing costs are unbelievable.
Car prices are unbelievable.
Hopefully the Ford Motor Company at the last convention
said that they're going to build cheaper cars,
maybe do it without decontenting them too much,
taking stuff out, that's a fancy word for taking stuff out.
Decontenting.
But I tell you what, some of these cars
could use decontenting.
All this technology, I think, is what's driving up prices.
I don't think it's greed.
A lot of people think it's greed,
but I don't think it is.
I just think it's the cost.
I mean, when you look how complicated vehicles are,
to me it's just, it's a miracle
that somebody could design something like a transmission,
a 10-speed automatic transmission.
When you open one of those up,
it makes you understand why it takes
such a great level of skill
for somebody to be able to tear them apart and work on them.
And also why they're so expensive,
but how in the world do they design that?
I mean, it's just amazing.
And it makes me wanna buy an extended service contract
as well if I buy a new vehicle,
especially if I finance it for 84 months.
Can you imagine financing the car for 84 months?
It goes out of warranty after you've had it
for about, I don't know, three or four years.
And then your transmission goes out.
Your payment's high enough.
How are you gonna afford that other payment?
And if you have to put it on a credit card
and pay all that interest on a credit card,
I mean, it could be devastating to a budget.
So that's why you need the guidebook.
Read it, absorb it, use it.
And call me if you have any questions,
423-552-2020, or you can send me an email
to Lenny Lawson, 2020, at gmail.com.
And I'll see you on the next edition of My Car Guru.
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