You Have $5k To Spend Towards A Truck, How Are You Spending It?

All right, welcome back everybody. This is the diesel performance podcast Chris. How

you doing?

What's going on man?

Just hanging out dude. A lot of stuff going on around here today. There's a lot of movement

in the shop. They're building walls, transmissions getting broken down, seeing a couple of trucks

coming in and out. It's unfamiliar faces. It's been a wild Tuesday.

Random people with saws down in the shop. I don't know what's going on. They're all

wearing Duramax tuner. There's one guy, an OG dialed in tuned up. That's Ryan, really,

the, never mind.

It's a good shirt.

I think we need to bring back the Switch's Get Bitches shirt. Pardon my French.

Pardon your French, yeah. No, the, that was a shirt that in its time, we got a lot of

flak for. And when I say we, it was before I worked here. But the tail end of those shirts,

when I was here, there was like a demand for them. Then we had no more. I still have two

unworn folded Switch's Get Bitches shirt in my closet, yeah.

You could see a couple racks on one of those.

Or there was a, there was this really cool shirt, Nick, you know, our old boss. He, he

did this contest, right, for who could sell a twin turbo kit. This is back like 2014.

So you're going to start bragging real quick.

So I ended up, yes, I won.

Okay, checks out.

And it was, it was this really nice gray property of Duramex tuner shirt. And that's an OG shirt.

Oh yeah.

Maybe Justin, maybe you have one.

No, I don't.

Okay. Well, then I can say Nick and I are the only people in the building that have it.

And it is just a really, really nice shirt. Fit nice, good color.

So, you know, I'm going to leave, dude. I'm going to leave.

I mean that.

When you say somewhere long enough, you're about to get something.

So you get a couple T-shirts.

You know, that's how it goes.

Hold on to those guys.

I mean, kind of speaking on that of, you know, I don't want to say glory days are back in the roots.

I want to get back to a topic I was thinking about the other day.

And coincidentally, you know, we were talking about it maybe a week or two ago.

We've done, we've talked about newer trucks.

We've talked about, you know, we had the LBZ budget build.

We had, you know, Timmy's LB7 budget build, you know, with like higher dollar amounts.

So I kind of want to go back to where most of us started is if you had X amount of dollars

in your truck was in front of you or a certain truck was in front of you,

what would be the first thing to do?

Or within that, you know, $1,000, $10,000, $5,000.

So I settled on $5,000.

And we've got, you know, kind of a range of trucks we're going to talk about.

I think $5,000 is a pretty healthy budget.

You know, again, it's not something you need to do today or tomorrow.

But I think for any of our listeners, when you're buying a truck or inheriting a truck

or whatever, and you look at what the cost of a set of wheels and tires costs

and an exhaust system or an intake and a tuner, you're there, right?

And that's even, you know, me, me searching the marketplace, trying to find a use

set of wheels and tires because I'm cheap, like everything's expensive.

Everything is.

But I think, you know, with some of the older trucks that we're talking about,

I think there's definitely different power levels that you're going to achieve

regardless, but, you know, $5,000 in upgrades over over a year or two in a truck.

It's pretty reasonable.

And I'd say for kind of context here, I was going to say,

we're starting with upgrades only.

No, like brakes, no, you know, mechanical issues.

Like the truck's good to go.

You're full blown going back to when you were 18.

You bought the truck, fought the brakes, universal joints, none of it matters.

The oil leak and your prior drive.

I feel like you're really talking to me now, not just the listeners at home.

My parents said that they were very grateful that we had a gravel driveway

for a reason, so I'll just leave that there.

When I brought my LV7 home, it had a leak off the passenger side valve cover.

And where I live, the streets are pretty curved.

So I always parked there and just, I think there's still oil spots to this day.

That's wild.

And when we got back from picking up my L-O-Y, because Rendant was here at the time,

got, I got the, Jesus Christ, the hostels.

I got the wheels ordered as my caliper was locking up.

And I have a picture of DJ, dude, I bought wheels and tires and my brakes are locked.

I'm going to be on the side of the road.

So some, some things never change.

Some things don't change.

I, you know, you sometimes you can't teach the old dog new tricks, you know.

And, you know, you, you, you get a truck that, you know, you, you just turned 16 or,

you know, you're, you're 18, 19, and you're, you have a little bit more

stability financially, even working for a year or two.

And, you know, you've been driving a truck and it's like, all right,

now I'm going to make this thing badass.

Like, you know, I want to, I want to show off and show out, right?

So you got to buy wheels and tires.

You got to do this and that.

And we've had trucks come in and out of the shop where it's like you want to do

a turbo and tuning, but the truck's only making 6,000 pounds of rail pressure.

Fuck, we do your ball joints are on the parking lot, dude.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, we've, we've seen some of that.

There's a truck in the shop now that makes 1000 horsepower.

And the tech showed me a video where the ball joints, like this thing's one

or two more bumps in the road.

Oh, yeah. From going straight, Dougie in the front wheels, man.

Like just insane, man.

Teach him how to doggie.

He's going to be, he's going to be one of those, you know, Lightning McQueen's

kitchen on the side of the road.

Well, it's like one of those, uh, those memes of the GM slide pulling.

And it's like, what, let me show you how to GM.

So now I, he, he, he got the truck here at the right time.

I'll just say that.

I think I remember my LB seven, there's a couple of times where like,

there's a bunch of guys that rode bikes on there on Harleys and stuff.

We all met up for lunch and they're all, they all cruised by me.

They're like, brother, you can not drive this thing home.

Can you talk about stuck my head out the window.

The tire was like a basketball just going over the bumps.

So I think, you know, guilty on that one as well.

No, no, the, I was thinking about this the other day too.

It's the person selling that 10 or 15 year old vehicle and, and says

nothing's wrong with it, needs nothing.

It's like, you're, you're full of shit.

Like, and then you go on marketplace and you buy that two or $3,000, 12

alf Cummins diesel pickup truck, cause you think it's a great deal.

And it needs another $8,000 in repairs just to make it road worthy,

but you got it for two grand, you know, and you're like, I'm getting,

I'm pulling a fast one on this guy.

Dude, he doesn't know what he's got.

It's like, oh, when you're, when you're naive and 18, that's what happens.

I don't know.

I was getting down 30 and I'm kind of still in set.

Like I got the GA, dude, I got this first deal.

So I gotta do everything.

You also ruined it by doing what you did.

So you learned, you didn't learn from us.

No, if anything, I learned from you, not.

Yeah, I learned, but I didn't at the same time.

Oh, you did exactly what I did with mine.

So, and it goes to this whole budget idea.

And yeah, I think, you know, there's this, you could, you could go on social

media, you know, which took place of what the magazines were, and everybody

aspired to have this really cool truck that makes a ton of power.

And everybody's got a vision for their build in some degree.

But a lot of those builds don't come to fruition, just snap of a finger.

No, it does take a little bit of time.

So I think the budget of a $5,000 kind of going through some of these RPOs,

like, Hey, here's your foundation to get by and enjoy it goes a long way.

I mean, the first one that stuck out, again, it's, it's where I started.

And I know it's, you know, we're Duramax tuner known for Duramax tuners.

The reason I just put down 01 to 10, I wasn't going to split it up.

I'll be seven.

Otherwise, I don't think you need to most of them fall into the same category.

So I'll kick it off my first few things.

And, you know, there's, you could split it a bunch of different ways.

Like if you got five grand, you could buy a twin turbo kit.

Okay, we got no money for tuning.

You got no money for trans this and that and the other.

So again, if we're starting with one of those trucks, my first one is tuning.

I'm, I'm going into this bank for your buck.

How can you get the most out of the truck was spending the least amount of money?

So I mean, I'm going with, might be controversial, but I'm going with

single engine tune and trans tune.

Like I just, I don't know.

If you watch your, what about like a PPE tuner or an edge?

I mean, you can get away with it.

You can get away with it.

But again, like this is something where I want to set up my foundation.

This isn't something where, you know, I'm just going to have it this way forever.

Like I want to maybe not reach a certain power number, but I want something

reliable, fun I can tow with.

And not that you can't do that with those, you know, modules or old school

tuners or anything like that, but there's no room for customization in the future.

I also think to touch on, you know, essentially this might be a new to you

truck and if you end up going with an EFI live programmer and you find a reputable

EFI live tuning source, you could have a device that you can then help kind of

bounce ideas off for diagnostics, troubleshooting, making sure that the truck

is mechanically sound from an engine and trans perspective.

So, you know, some versatility there and the opportunity to grow if you plan

on doing more in the future goes a long way.

Yeah, because I mean, again, not only is it a tuner, you can data log, you can

scan for trouble codes and then, you know, if, you know, let's say maybe you

don't have somebody tuning the truck, you can look up videos on how to open

up a data log and like there's a lot of information that you can see in something

like that to help diagnose any sort of potential issues.

The first thing I think about when I think of an 01 to 10 is, you know, even

before tuning, do a lift pump.

Yeah.

I mean, that's my number two is a lift pump there.

Cause I mean, depending on the mileage, like these trucks are old, depending

on how far back you go.

So mileage is a factor, age is a factor.

It's all gravity fed systems too.

So there's not, there hasn't been a helper pump in a sense, you know, for

the CP3.

So, you know, just preserving it and helping, helping that little last bit

of life that that CP3 might have to offer goes a long way.

You said something and I hear every once in a while and correct me on the,

what the actual phrase is that you use, but you talked about how these trucks,

again, not having a factory helper pump, but just having a CP3 is like

drinking out of a cocktail straw.

And how does that go again?

Or is it, I don't know if it's specific, but that always sticks with me.

Yeah.

I mean, it's, it's more or less the analogy I use is having to do with the

sending unit, you know, and this is why I always recommend putting a sump on these

trucks.

Yeah.

The factory sending unit as one of these trucks are older, they tend to

crack and you can get air in the system, but in some of the year model trucks,

the sending unit, uh, the straws are actually more restrictive.

So you're, you're having a pump pull out of a very restrictive straw,

like a cocktail straw or a mixing straw versus if you have the ability to open

that up, you get to, you know, pull through a little bit of a bigger open area.

So the pump is getting the proper supplied fuel and generally the pumps aren't

as loud.

Yeah.

So it doesn't have to work as hard.

It doesn't have to work as hard and not only does the pump not have to work as

hard, CP three doesn't have to work as hard, keep up with the demand.

And then that just translates to the injectors being more efficient and it

just, you know, makes everything happier.

And then the, I would say out of this list, a, a, a fuel pressure relief valve,

right?

And that's going to be, yes, LB sevens have it on a distribution block in the

valley, the fact that they go out fairly slim, I'm not going to debate and say

they don't, but the chances are pretty unlikely.

For every LB seven, one I sell, I probably sell 20 or 30 regular ones.

So the oh four and a half to 10 trucks, it's better to have it not need it than

it is to need it, not have it, especially for the price point.

Oh, a hundred percent, you know, 50 bucks or whatever the valves cost.

So I would say that the lift pump, the, the rail plug and the tuning are probably

your, your crucial foundation points, right?

Like those are, those are the three things that take my money.

You're going to see an improvement.

The truck's going to run better, start better mileage is going to increase,

drivability is going to go up.

It's making the truck more reliable.

And then some like, you know, those are three phenomenal upgrades to do, but

we still have some money.

You say, we still have some money in the bank.

Again, my next step would be an intake system.

I'm a big fan of either SMB or WC Fab.

I know you've got HSP, you've got a handful of other guys out there.

That's what I've always run on my stuff.

Go ahead.

I also think that if it's going to be that 01 to 05 arena, LB7 or LOI, then

you have the horn to go along with that.

I was going to say, if I'm doing an intake, I'm doing, you know, the airbox

and the intake pipe, and then the air horn, LB7s, they're a bitch to do, but like,

you can, you can mod your own.

You can mod your own.

You can, you could save a couple of bucks, mod your own.

LOIs, you can go with the LBZ one, but you have to get the tuning adjusted.

That's what I, I still have on mine, actually.

Um, so that's kind of where I'd like to start.

And then anything else that you might have, again, depending on who you go for

tuning, you know, you're going to pay, you've got some miscellaneous parts in

there, though, that's what I like to, to kind of start with.

No, I would say that's what I would call kind of your, your stock trans

power output setup, right?

Like the old, uh, the power packs back in the day.

Yeah.

I mean, whether, you know, uh, back in calibrated, we used to do power

packs years ago, and it was a 400 power pack, 400 rear wheel horsepower.

And that was if you had an 01 to 05 truck with the five speed.

And if you had a six speed Allison, you know, from 06 to 2010, we had a 430

pack, you know, bumps up a couple horsepower.

Um, but it was, it was that it was an intake.

It was a lift pump, you know, it was tuning a rail plug.

And then the option of adding gauges, you know, we're a big fan of the

Edge Insight CTS is here at the shop.

Um, I would say that there's probably not a better gauge option on the market.

I have one in pretty much any vehicle I own, gas or diesel.

Um, I like the, I like the layout.

I like the visibility.

Um, you know, not all distorted and fucked up colors or anything like that.

Like it's just, it's a, it's a nice piece.

Especially with the three that came out granted, it's been several years now,

but I remember how much of a jump that was like the one of the two is a big jump.

And the two to the three is a massive jump.

No, no, it's definitely the Christmas, the operation of it.

Yeah, throw an EGT probe in there as well.

Like I think that could round out the dollar amount pretty quick.

Then you're set.

And then now it's, you know, now it's big money, right?

Now you're talking to transmission upgrade next, if you want to give that

next level, but you know, again, it's all foundational.

So all of these things that we're talking about doing in that first $5,000 window

are all things that you're going to utilize as you grow, doing more in the future.

Or maybe you do this and you're just happy with the truck.

I mean, we deal with customers at the shop where, you know, we set up packages

like this for them 10, 12 years ago, and they still are running the truck to this day.

They maintain the truck, they treat the truck fair.

And, you know, it's like, hey, when are you going to do a trans?

Oh, when the trans gives me an issue, you know, it's not a matter of a VIF.

It's just a matter of why I wish I could be that guy sometimes, you know,

that's why those guys got money and we don't.

That's why they've got money and they've got nice trucks.

Yeah. Oh, when are you going to rip this thing apart?

Never. Why? That's good.

Why sits in the barn?

Yeah. Drive it when I need to go on family camping trips, not left on the side

of the road. Yeah. But no, I mean, that kind of rounds out the 0 to 10 trucks.

Again, something I'm more familiar with.

And I want to go to the third gens.

We go to the five nines.

I'll kind of lean on you here.

I'm pretty familiar with them, but you are definitely the leading expert around here.

I think, you know, the O3 to 07 truck, or I would even go a step further

and say like the O3 to, you know, probably current kind of fall into the same

category of, you know, tuning is pretty much your heart and soul, right?

Like these trucks don't really need supporting modification to be able

to bump up an extra 100 horsepower.

Tuning is going to get you there.

Yeah. You know, little add ons to kind of put into that, you know, like,

like we mentioned in the prior truck, like a lift pump, you know, the Rams

do have factory lift pumps implemented, but there are updated styles

that are going to be less restrictive as you want to grow in power, or maybe

you want to add the additional filtration and water separation, such as

like fast air dogs, stuff like that.

So, you know, it's all about protecting the investment at that point.

And, you know, you want to keep the truck for a year or two and run the

brakes off of it, or you're wanting to, you know, make some upgrades over time

tastefully and maintain the truck's well-being.

And I've got to kind of piggyback off that two questions.

First one, I always recommend 165 lift pumps on everything.

Would you still, in that price range, do the same thing?

Or would we recommend something smaller, maybe?

I just had a conversation with the customer the other day, and he had an

LML, which we'll back into, and, you know, we were talking about price

points, and a hundred gallon per hour versus a hundred and sixty-five

gallon per hour, traditionally, is a $30 to $40 difference.

That is a drop in the bucket compared to what's going to be the aftermath.

If you needed to replace it.

So, you know, maybe you only want to make 400 or 500 horsepower, maybe a year or

two from now, you want to make 650 or 700.

That hundred gallon per hour pump now becomes a limitation.

Already tapped out.

Now you're having to remove the pump, maybe try to sell it used or

pawn it off on a buddy, but it's a used pump that's been on the truck for a

few years.

And at that point, that buddy you're going to pawn it off on, he's like,

well, why are you selling it?

Oh, I'm going bigger.

Well, I'm going to want to do the same thing you were, so he's not going to buy it.

And then you're buying a secondary pump, spending double the money.

So for the $30 or $40 difference, just buy the bigger pump.

Now I'm not saying, oh, buy a 220 or a 260.

Like those are overkill, but a 165 will work in a factory application and

give you more versatility.

We've made a thousand horsepower with those pumps.

So they're pretty, pretty versatile for what they're capable of.

And then the other question that came to mind, I know the turbo chargers

generally on the, the five nines or the comments platform in general are cheaper.

So for this one, let's focus on the five nines.

They're cheaper and that's more of a DIY user friendly upgrade.

Would you be going into a charger?

I wouldn't because of the transmission.

Okay.

The 48s can, can be act up just by looking at them funny.

So, you know, I'm, I'm in a position where, yeah, as the truck gets older,

can you upgrade the turbo just for peace of mind?

Absolutely.

But if the turbo is working correctly, the transmission is functioning correctly.

I'm going to back into a similar update as the old one to tenderer max tuning,

do a lift pump, add an air intake into the mix.

You know, do a sump if you're wanting to go the sump route or the draw straw,

which the Cummins lift pumps come with.

And I would, I would probably hold off at that point until again,

the trans takes a shit or say it's time to upgrade or you're lucky and have a

six speed manual truck where you just had to buy a clutch.

And then you can turn up the truck a little bit further or let's say at a

turbo issue ahead of time, you do the turbo in, in correlation with, but,

you know, the, the O three to O seven, five, nine trucks, like you could,

you could make the truck very efficient and increase the power output by about

a hundred, 125 horsepower for, you know, call it about

2,500 bucks. Yeah. You know, you're, you're half the cost and you have some,

you have some jingle to play with to start saving up towards a transmission.

Or, or like you said, maybe the turbo's on its way out and you want to upgrade,

you know, there's a lot of options that are out there to support that.

And that's where I like, because again, we've been doing, I've been doing this

eight years now, you've been doing a lot longer than I have.

Where I think it's nice every once in a while to sit down, take a step back

and cut through the bullshit. Cause again, you know, you had the forums back in

the day, you got Facebook, you had the magazines as well of being able to sit

down and tell somebody like, Hey, you might have a $5,000 budget or for,

you know, for this scenario, but you don't have to go out and light five grand

on fire. No. And I mean, I think there's, yeah, I mean, from, from that perspective,

there's a lot of misinformation out there where there's a lot of companies

that market a lot of products and that marketing is left for interpretation.

So I can't tell you how many times I've had guys call in inquiring about

tuning and it's like, well, what do you have done to the truck?

Well, my truck makes 450 horsepower. Well, what's done to it?

Well, I just have intake intercooler pipes, intake horn, you know, a couple

little small other odds and ends exhaust manifold.

And it's like, well, sir, your truck makes 325 break horsepower stock.

So call it 310. If you're lucky, where are you coming up with another 80 horsepower?

Well, the intake adds 15 horse, the exhaust adds 15 horse, the air cooler pipes

add 20 horse. And no, like that. Where did you get that?

Well, that's what that's what the company advertises.

And it's like, well, the parts have the ability to make that, but bolting on

those parts onto the truck, the trucks making the same 310 horsepower it made

tuning with those parts are going to get you there.

And tuning isn't requiring those parts to be there.

But tuning is going to allow the truck to make the power and those parts

are going to allow the engine to work more efficiently at that power number.

So I think it's kind of reading in between the lines.

And I would say companies have gotten better with their marketing tactics

over the years, but there's still a couple guys out there where

you read what they're marketing and it's like, I see what you're doing there.

I see it.

But on the topic of you talking about where guys aren't you're they're

leaving the marketing open for interpretation.

And that's why I'm not going to try to get not cocky or anything like that.

But I enjoy working where I work.

And all the time I spend on the phones where it goes back to what you've

taught me, what Nick has preached over the years where like, we could sell

people bullshit if we wanted to, but they don't need it.

We've all been a consumer that's bought something too big or oversized undersized.

And it's to get somebody on the phone like, hey, you've got $5,000.

We'll tell you what, I can get you what you want for $3,500.

And let's take that extra money and put it towards X in the future.

And that's the guy who's going to come back, who's going to be, you're going

to trust you, is going to work with you for years and you build relationships like that.

It's, it's funny you bring this up.

I had a customer today this morning, actually, he had a 5906 Dodge.

And he goes, I'm looking for compressor maps.

And I go, well, what do you want a compressor map for?

He goes, well, I want to see how efficient your turbocharger is compared

to a competitor who advertises their product and has compressor maps.

And I'm like, well, I, I don't have compressor maps.

We can provide boost tables if needed for tuning, but I don't have compressor maps.

But maybe I can offer you something better, right?

And we did testing about a year and a half ago, two years ago.

And we baselined a factory five nine turbo factory modified where it was just

the wastegate shut off, our STR, our 64 and our 67.

So I go, what's your email gives me his email, type everything in, put a link in.

I go, here's, here's some test data.

It's going to have all the test data for EGT, drive pressure, boost, spool up

anything you would want.

That's going to be far more important to you than a compressor map.

Yeah.

Right.

Take a look at it.

And he was so blown away that a company invested those type of resources to be

able to provide that type of information.

Yeah.

I mean, that took a lot of time on a Nick, Dan, there's a lot of guys that had,

you know, the turbo guys going back and forth.

Like there's a lot of hands involved in that.

And that's not the first time.

Like this was a test that we did back in 2013 before we ever manufactured

turbo chargers where we blind called multiple companies to get a recommendation

and then called them back and said, Hey, we're so and so from, you know,

calibrated power, we want to do a turbo test you want in.

This was the turbo you recommended.

And we had five of the top turbo manufacturers then that donated chargers

to us specifically for the test.

Yeah.

So we had something to kind of lean on.

And I mean, even at that time, we were never planning on doing turbo chargers.

Right.

Something happened after.

But having that data is very, very important.

And then I think having a staff, a knowledgeable staff, right?

Like I'm going to call in, like.

I'm not just reading.

You're not just reading what's on paper.

Like you can kind of walk the walk as you've experienced.

You're not reading a product copy.

You're not reading highlights, things like that.

Or just you it's because anybody can go on, you know, the website and be like,

Oh, well, this turbo does this.

And then it's like, no, it's like, I actually drove mine in today.

And I have this or a customer's truck was here last week of the same guy

the other day had the similar issue.

And like that, that speaks a lot more volumes and holds a lot more true

than just reading product highlights on a page.

Having having that data and to your initial point, right?

Like marketing efforts can get very, very skewed and you could go on the forums,

which I think is one of the worst things in this industry.

The Facebook forums, not the actual forums, because anybody with a Facebook

can go on there and comment and I feel there's a lot of false information

or there's a lot of theories that aren't technically proven.

And the aftermath is, is that guy who spent his last two paychecks

on parts for his truck and the truck's done nothing that Joe

Joe Block in in Minneapolis, Minnesota on Facebook told me I can do type thing.

You know, so.

Next one I wanted to get to LML kind of group.

I don't like that you grouped it to the two different trucks.

I know they are.

You know, I'm the truck. How about you LML or L5P?

What are you choosing?

I'm going 17 and 19 L5P.

Really? OK. I have no preference.

Really? No. I think LML is a phenomenal truck.

No, I'm not. I'm not going to say.

How about one of you guys do LML?

One of you guys do L5P? Yeah.

Oh, no, before we do that, producer.

You let's say let's say you got LML.

Yeah. What body style are you picking?

Because there is a right answer.

OK, I mean, there's no denying if you're looking for sheer power,

the L5P is the better platform, power wise.

But the LML, I think that's that's the truck that I was most exposed to

in my professional career.

So like I wouldn't own one, but I think they're bad ass trucks.

That's the I would agree with you there.

Like that was the first truck that I did a switch on.

Yeah, it was our vice president, Jamie, like because that thing

he had just got that because it didn't have the twin kit on it.

You didn't have twins.

That's because it just started with tuning.

I've probably done three or four dozen LML switch installs back in the day.

What I think was cool about the LML platform is,

yeah, the Ford guys had the six fours and those six fours were making stupid power.

I was never a Ford guy, never exposed to six four power strokes.

But the the LML Duramax, you literally can do a tune and a lift pump and make

550 horse and that's all.

Yeah. So compare that to the LMMs.

Like that's a massive comparing, comparing the truck.

Now granted, the trucks weigh a little more, we'll figure, but you could

you could do a tune and a lift pump on an LML, make 545 50 to the tire.

And you have a lot of extra jingle hanging around, right?

An LML tune pack, you know, with hardware, fourteen hundred bucks with

the trans tuning, a lift pump, you're into it for 700 bucks, you know.

So realistically, $2,000 and you have a 550 wheel horsepower capable truck.

What are you doing with the with the added money?

You know, are you doing like a fuel system saver?

Do a system saver for insurance?

Yeah. An intake just because you want to hear more noise out of the turbo.

The Whirly intake horns are extremely loud.

They give you some good in cabin noise.

They do. We've done some testing before and after with like, you know,

the S&B, the Whirly, the banks, they all make similar power.

Yes. So it's just, you know, what do you want the engine made to look like now?

It's, well, I want to do more in the future.

Well, OK, what's your vision?

Do you want to modify the truck?

Are you going to do piping and everything else?

You can kind of piece together different color combos and things like that

to get to what your your desire is.

Yeah, I get to depend, like you said, depending on how you how you want to go

about it, let's say someone has an LML and they're gung-ho on like a CP3 conversion.

Those are not cheap. No.

So maybe instead of opting for the WC Fab parts, you're going to go with an S&B

to make it more reliable.

And it's not, you know, I know there's a lot of carryover on terms of what we'd

recommend for specific trucks, but you can go about it multiple different ways

and to really personalize it.

If you were on the forums and you were very scared of a CP4 pump, right?

And I'm this this episode is not for a debate, right?

Everyone's got their own theory.

I can count on one hand how many times I've seen CP4s fail coming in

out of the shop and out of the one hand count that I can have,

it was always a contamination issue.

It was always a fuel quality issue.

So maybe maybe that's not enough.

And you've read the forums and all there's a GM class action lawsuit.

They're junk. Got to get rid of them.

In the $5,000 budget, you could do a CP3 conversion with the lift pump,

with the tuning, still be under $5,000 and drive your truck across country

tomorrow and never have another thought in your head.

Exactly. So now, L5P, different world, different world, very much a different

world. They already have a lift pump.

They are. So you don't have to worry about that.

I would say, you know, for one, there's tuning.

I'm going to make the crack ahead of time.

I'm putting an extra $500 aside for injector pigtails.

You were. It's like you read my notes a little bit.

Because that's another one where I've had more injector pigtail issues

than CP4s. Again, it's a very different component.

But with the horror stories you hear about CP4s,

I'd expect to see a lot more than I have over the years.

But like it's injector pigtails.

I'd almost just do it to do it.

Just to do them, just to be proactive with them.

I'd rather, I don't want to say burn the money,

but I'd spend the money up front because there have been multiple customers

like, hey, I'm in Oklahoma. Like, I need to get the truck to you.

Like, what's this code? I'm like, it's a pigtail.

They're like, either get it here or you're going to have to find somebody

to do it for you.

I would say if I was not to back into what we were talking about before,

but if I was an LB7 or an LOI customer, one of the first things I personally

would do aside from lift pump would be doing an intake horn,

because I know how restrictive they are.

I would look at it as an L5P. You're a new to you L5P.

I would do the injector pigtails just for peace of mind.

Yeah. I'd say that. What would be your number two?

Tuning. Tuning.

Just because I've been in enough of those trucks, you know,

with the way diesel prices are and everything else, you have a cautious foot.

You can get a little bit better mileage.

The drivability aspect, whether it's a six speed or a 10 speed

trans tuning goes a really long way.

So what I've learned over the years is buying the truck

and having that new to you vehicle is definitely like an accomplishment.

Right. It's a check mark.

But why would you want to drive the truck stock

when there's more opportunity out there that can enhance that windshield

experience for you?

Because maybe you keep the truck two or three years,

maybe you keep the truck for its entirety.

I want the best experience in that truck as long as I possibly can.

And I just the night and day difference, just the new GM platform,

you know, yeah, there's improvements in the O one to 10 with tuning.

Like I'm not saying that, but the aggressively drastic change that takes place.

The trucks can handle so much more in an O one to 20 to current, right?

For that matter is just there's no comparison.

So I again, for me, for like this conversation,

I'm going to say like the 17 to 23 trucks because I feel like you go to 24s

and like you just blew the whole price point and like yeah.

So for me, it's yeah, I would say tuning you go with the intake.

You talk about ejector pigtails and I feel like there you can throw

whatever you have extra at an edge.

I mean, you can do an edge.

You could you could do a, you know, it seems to be really common customers.

They want to do an air intake and they end up they want to do an intake

and it goes worldly stage two bundle.

Yeah. Right. It seems like for every five customers I talk to

that are going to do tuning on an L five P four of them are doing high flow kits.

You know, they're doing an air intake.

They want it to look a certain way.

Might as well do the piping while you're at it in the horn.

You know, another thing to think of.

And again, like for the conversation, the trucks mechanically sound.

Everything's healthy, but we're talking about, you know,

preventative with the injector pigtails.

I've had a handful of manifolds and up pipes and stock form have issue

with the smaller manifold bolts and whatnot that and then the pedestal.

We're starting to see more cracking.

I mean, Worley did just release a turbo pedestal for the 17 to 23.

And it's just ironic.

I see this part about eight months ago, right?

They kind of bring it up to us.

And I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool.

Yeah. Never knew that they failed four shops that week.

Like, hey, we have this crack like GM's on back order on this pedestal.

And I'm like, what are the odds?

Yeah. This is a real life.

Jason Worley's a wizard. He's got a scene of the future.

He's got something, man.

He's cracking them all.

It's those TikTok tuners, dude.

They're getting a little hot out there.

So, you know, it's that two-step, two-step rev banging, dude.

You know, it's just that's what we'll do it.

Oh, geez.

Next one, you've got a lot of history.

Again, it ties in.

So, you know, if there's anything that changes, like, you know, I'm all ears.

I was thinking six, seven Cummins.

Man, if I if I own the six, seven Cummins, let me tell you.

So I would tell anybody, anybody that's going to buy a 2000,

a 2007, right, all the way up to, you know, the current, you know, 20,

I guess not current anymore, 2024.

You want to tune the truck, go for it.

If it's a 68, do a val body. Yeah.

That's a preventative.

It's it's smart money spent.

Get it out of the way before the val body becomes an issue.

I got customers that are out there with stock trucks.

I got customers out there with tune trucks and modification.

And my valve body's fine.

Well, it's not a problem till it's a problem and it leaves you stranded.

And I think the 68 RFP gets a really bad rap.

And are they the best shift schedule or shift quality and functionality trans?

No, there's more refined.

I would take an Allison or a Ford over them.

But I think the valve body itself gives the transmissions a really bad name.

And I didn't realize because again, I have a very Duramax heavy background.

I didn't realize what like a stock 68 was or all the hate was until I got into one

that was stock and then I got into one that was having issues.

Yeah. And it's kind of like, oh, shit.

And a lot of guys, I feel like some of the hate is people don't do trans tuning.

People just do, you know, they do the hot 100 to 150 to don't do trans tuning.

It's like no wonder it's on the ground.

I make I make jokes with with customers that call in like, oh, I got a 2015.

OK. How long have you had it?

Oh, I bought a new.

It's like you've driven that truck stock since new.

Like that sucks.

Like I I purposely would not buy one of those trucks.

And like any of the six sevens I was ever in,

like they drove poorly until trans tuning became a thing.

And it really opened my eyes to be like, OK, these things are actually decent.

You know, and I came from an old, you know, 48 RE truck and oh, seven.

Like I think shifted great.

Chris down at WC Fab, his is stock.

There's no tuning or anything.

And he's been people have been giving him shit.

Granny Hughes is in the truck for testing and products and things like that.

So I get why he had to have his stock.

But I'm like, dude, get that thing up here.

Let's get that fixed. No, no chance.

No chance in hell. I will never do it.

I remember I remember Charlie Moore, shout out, Charlie.

Great dude.

He he had donated his new to him.

It was a brand new 2014 Ram.

He had heard that, you know, if I live was in beta, he had the truck.

He's like, I'll give it to you guys for a few months, figure it out.

He dropped off the truck.

I remember going for the initial test drive with Nick going, you know,

this is what a $60,000 truck drive is like, you know, like it is at.

And grab this 2014 60,000 was a big chunk of change for a truck.

And I'm sitting there thinking like the truck's got this nice interior.

It rides halfway decent for a dodge, like.

But the power delivery, the lethargicness, the transmission shifting,

like all all zeros, all zeros.

You know, so to see kind of where that platform has progressed over the last 11 years is

it's crazy to really think about because like that's a big staple in our

product lineup, huge.

But it's also there because it fixes a problem that that customers have.

Right. It's yeah, they want to make some power into your point.

You know, I would never, ever, ever tune the engine without doing the trans.

There's probably more value doing the trans without the engine.

Absolutely. But it's all on one controller.

So shit out of luck.

You do both. Yeah.

But there's there's more value in ensuring that the transmission is going to do what it's supposed to.

So Val bodies, 100% rev max is our go to rev max are go to.

You know, you got Randy Ethan over at WP developments doing a valve body.

You got Randy's doing a valve body.

You got tier one transmissions doing a valve body.

You go on any Cummins forum.

There's six other guys that I've never heard of doing valve bodies.

But I can tell you I have I have personal experience in house with with rev max.

That's who we've always used.

I have a couple of customer and buddies who have used the WP development stuff

and they've been they've been satisfied.

Always heard good stuff about the WP guys.

Absolutely. I mean, I think that's something where you're talking about tuning

with how sensitive this picking out a valve body, I think is similar to tuning.

Get them on the phone, call, look at reviews, real world experience,

because anybody can say I can rebuild your valve body.

It's like, OK, but do you know 68?

Yeah, I think it goes a step further than that.

So with a lot of the 68 valve bodies out there,

you have an option of taking a factory valve body with the factory

casted top and bottom plates or you get into this

where the bottom plate of the valve body is a billet one piece.

Yeah. And that's the ticket.

I would never, ever do a factory modified.

I would always do what Rev Max calls their zero flex.

I feel like when they came out with that, that was we sold next to none of the other ones.

Nothing wrong with them.

It's just like, hey, you're such a massive step in a better direction.

Well, a year after a year or two after the zero flex came out,

I was driving my 15 with a 700 series trans down the road and I lost all gears,

except for first and second, had to limp the truck an hour home,

pulled it into the shop the following day, drop the the trans pan.

And there were all the valve body hex bolts.

The valve body had swollen so much that it split the valve body in half.

Jesus. So sent the trans back out to Rev Max.

I was back in like, you know, 2020, 2021, whatever.

And, you know, they went through it and they're like, hey, like the trans is fine.

It's the valve body.

Do you want to upgrade to the zero flex?

Absolutely. Let's go.

So now everything after any customer that calls in and they're like, hey,

I don't know which one to get. I tell them that story.

And they're paying the couple of extra hundred.

They see the value, you know, if you don't, that's cool.

But you might you might be in my shoes, limping the truck home.

I have to shut the truck off at every stop light to get it to go back into park.

And then because every time it would go first, second,

and I had to manually shift it, hold it because it couldn't go into third.

If it went to third, it went into neutral.

Yeah. And then when it come to a stop, it would it would free revenue trial.

So I have to shut it off, turn it back on, manually shift one, two,

and then driving down 55 mile an hour roads in second gear was.

There's cruisin.

I was probably about eight miles from home and I lost second gear.

All I had was first.

Like it was it was fun.

I mean, it's experience like that as much as that situation sucks.

Yeah. That is going to save people

thousands of tens of thousands of dollars down the road.

I mean, how many guys you've told that story to and told them about it?

I mean, think of how many people that are like your nitty pay for a tow truck.

I'm cheap.

Yeah, I didn't pay for this.

I watched my trans temps.

I was like, all right, trans temps are good.

We're running this.

Yeah. That's just what it is.

To kind of round things out, I didn't forget about the Ford guys.

Yeah. I'm a big Ford fan these days.

Our most popular platform, not platform, model years.

Granted, we do everything from 11 up to 26.

Yeah. But I was just going to pick on the 17 plus.

Dude, I just I hate singling out the 11 to 16 trucks.

But do we don't do a lot of 11 to 14?

We do mostly cab chassis with turbo conversions, I feel.

15 plus conversions, that's a lot of it.

That's a lot.

You know, 15, 16, it's a small sample year of trucks.

But I think we really hit our stride popularity wise, 17 to 19.

And then, of course, the 20 plus because we had, I mean, granted,

we had some Fords in the, you know, when I was around.

But it was, was it Timmy's white truck?

Was that a 17 or maybe 19 or 19?

He had a white one and he had a black one that were pre 10 speed.

So yeah. So I mean, that's that's where I feel like a lot of the popularity

or we we took off with the platform and a lot of media around it, things like that.

That's where I got a lot of seat time, spent a handful of trips out west in that truck.

But for me, the 17 plus, it varies because again, I'm going to go off a memory here.

I believe on 17, I can't remember if it was 17 or 18.

The battery is in front of the air intake.

I could not tell you.

So the S&B had the nice intake kits where they would swap a battery relocation

and move the intake box.

So for me, an intake on those early, those early 17s holds a lot of value.

I think, I mean, granted, I'm going to pair tuning in there as well.

Because when we I'm getting ahead of myself here, I'm getting excited.

Dude, shit. The intakes are big value.

I actually saw the intakes on those actually make power though.

Absolutely.

The truck was good for like 15 or 20 horsepower due to the factory

air box being restrictive on those years.

Yes.

Where I'm not saying that the air intakes don't add a value,

but you're not picking up 20 horsepower on any of the other trucks.

No.

And I feel like, depending on what you see, the power numbers advertised are on a flow bench.

So it's not on a truck, on a dyno, same day, same testing, things like that,

where the numbers would be very different.

Tuning.

Tuning would be more or less my number one.

But intakes one and two for the Fords, because we can get almost 600,

if not over 600 on a lot of these trucks.

What other platforms could do that?

Pretty much 17 plus.

They'll do 595 to 615 to the tire.

Let's not even talk about the newer 23 plus.

Those trucks are disgusting.

I'll just say that.

A tune only, just put a tune in one of those trucks,

so they make almost 1,400 foot pounds.

It's violent on the street.

The way that that torque is planted to the ground, the way the ground feels,

there's several twin turbo high horsepower trucks that I've been in,

where it feels like the ground is breaking underneath you.

It's just that grit, raw power transplant to the ground.

You get one of these 23 plus Fords put in the big tune and fucking stand it.

And you're a changed man these days.

I still won't own one, but yeah, they're nice trucks.

They are fun.

And just, I don't know.

I think you get the-

You couldn't spend $5,000 on those.

I mean, you could.

But you're lighting money on fire.

You're literally lighting on money on fire.

Like literally a tuner and an intake and a system saver.

Or you know what?

You could do the DCR and just bulletproof the truck.

You could DCR, tuner and intake and be $4,000 into the truck.

And you could have a badass turnkey 600 horse truck.

And I think out of all these trucks that we're talking about,

if we're talking about what's the leading contender, it's Ford.

Absolutely.

All day long.

And I think, again, I'm always a Duramax guy.

You put the bias aside and you get in these trucks and it's like,

everyone, I'm a big Duramax guy.

It's like put that to the side and try every one of these out.

Like you get into newer Ford, not even new, I mean 17s new,

but like you get into those and you are not going to be disappointed with proper tuning.

I mean, even if you were to get into like the 11 to 16 trucks,

like you're not going to be disappointed.

If you're going to drive all three, the Ford has always been kind of that,

I would call the most complete. GM seems to be in the middle, my take.

And I'm talking purely from drivability, power delivery, and just functionality, right?

Ram, if you're going to compare the Ram, like the Ram's bottom of the barrel from the power

delivery, power output, drivability, experience, ask of the truck.

Tuning definitely has the ability to improve on, but like,

you know, you get guys that call in asking about what to buy,

what recommendation it is, and it's like, hey, man, I'm tasteless as hell.

This is what I like, and it's the worst truck out there from the feeling aspect,

not the quality, not, you know, the reliability.

I'm talking about getting the truck and have that windshield experience.

These are what I feel, and this is what general feedback is.

But an exhaust break, they're number one.

Oh, all day long. Absolutely.

Yeah, dude. I know it's the Cummings. Cummings.

That's what you're talking about.

Well, on that note, Chris said Cummings, so I think we've got to round things out.

We have other shows coming up. We have some exciting stuff.

We do.

You know, this was just kind of like you said, go back to the roots, kind of go back to,

you know, let's just do this broad, you know, couple thousand dollars, you're starting off,

what are some modifications to do?

We didn't have 12 valves in here.

I'd need a flathead screwdriver and a handheld grinder, but that's another topic for another day.

There goes 100 bucks right there.

So, you know, you could do some damage.

So I think it's going to be fun to back into some of this stuff a little bit more

and actually get into some of those budget builds.

Yeah. I mean, I think also as these trucks get newer and newer, but like the newer ones get older.

And older and older.

Yeah. Like once it's newer, it's older.

100%. Like how that changes or what's going to change and things like that.

You know, every few years when they come out with like a new setup and whatnot,

I think it'd be cool to look back on something like that and redo it.

But that's all we got for you guys today.

If you have any questions, feel free to give us a call.

Phone number is 815-568-7920. Chris.

Or, or you could bang the the diesel podcast, YouTube, Facebook.

Diesel Performance Podcast, YouTube, Facebook. Follow us on Duramex, Twitter, WCFab or everywhere.

Call me, beat me if you want to reach me.

Yeah, I learned, but I didn't at the same time.

You Have $5k To Spend Towards A Truck, How Are You Spending It?

About this episode

twin turbo kit

ball joints

CP three

EGT probe

trans

lift pump

filtration and water separation

horsepower

air intake

clutch

turbocharger

compressor map

CP4 pump

contamination issue

CP4s

high flow kits

stock trucks

shift schedule

shift quality

WC Fab

valve body hex bolts

S&B

intake box

Ford

proper tuning

drivability

tuning definitely has the ability to improve

budget builds

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