#16: To Keep or Let Go

It's like, you'll sell it and you'll get another car, or is that a forever car?

You're going to pull the classic Henry, where you drive it right into the ground.

Right into the ground, yes.

So it's worth $0, like the Cadillac Graveyard in Texas, where you just bury half of it right in here.

Right. It's just like, well, at least it's art now.

Welcome back, wife plus cars, community.

Absolutely. Welcome back, listener.

As Ian said, here we are.

We are going to talk today about that age-old question when you have an older car,

an older used car, and you want to keep it or should you get rid of it?

When is that fine line of it?

It's just either too much money to keep it on the road or is it worth it

to try to, you know, keep it going for another couple of years?

Because the reason we want to talk about it is the price of new cars

are astronomical. For the first time ever, we're seeing the average

transaction price on a new car sale is $50,000 above $50,000.

That's the average. That's insane.

The average we're talking about, yes. Yeah, I mean, that's just bonkers.

Well, it's crazy. That's crazy to me.

And then you're seeing as a result of that, right,

that the average car now is we're getting close to like 13 years of age

is the average used car age now. It's 12.8 years.

So people it just recently went up to that before it was like maybe nine

or 10, like a year, year and a half ago, a couple of years ago.

So more people are trying to nurse along the older cars

because it just costs too much to buy a new one.

Yeah, I mean, it brings to mind for me what I mean, I bought my all track.

Brand new.

We talked about that in the Life Plus New Cars episode a little while back.

And the idea that I paid $25,000 for that car.

I mean, brand new out the door.

And I think about how much I got with that car.

And now to think that they I mean, we're now six years later

and the average new cars doubled that.

I mean, that just, yeah, that does baffle me.

So it makes sense that where people are financially that

just to keep a car running may be the more economical choice

and just fit your lifestyle overall.

I mean, it is interesting to see this shift

how as much as technology is advancing, both with electric vehicles

and hybrids and every all kinds of tech that they pack into these new cars.

And yet a lot of people are saying, you know what, this my car right now works.

I know it's a little older, but I think I'm going to keep going.

And you touched on something that's like one of the things

that I wanted to bring up, too, is the technology.

Like, I know a lot of people and I'm one of them

that they're putting way too much technology in cars.

Like, I cannot stand when you get in the car

and you have to go through the screen to do everything.

Yeah, like I drove.

I drove like a brand new Ford Expedition

Expedition Max the other day and everything was through the screen.

It took me like five minutes to figure out how to turn off the heated seat.

I was like, why isn't there a button?

Where's the button?

And it's like it's on the screen in the bottom,

but it wasn't like you just tap the button and then it like it goes,

you know, high, medium, low.

It's a slider.

It's like you hit it, it comes up and you got to slide the button up and down

between heat and cool.

And that like that just that was not intuitive to me.

It was not. And I mean, I'm decent with technology,

but that to me was like, why?

Right. Why does it have to be this screen for everything?

And it drove me crazy listening to the radio on it.

Crazy. The base was way too loud.

And I could not figure out where to go for audio settings.

Like I literally pulled over on the side of the road

and like the owner's manual is not paper anymore.

You have to go in through the screen to the owner's manual.

And I typed in audio settings and still couldn't figure it out.

And I was just like, yep, all right, turn the radio off.

Like I'm not just I'm not it's not worth it.

Yeah. I mean, that's so telling the fact that

yeah, the one that the manual is now digital.

I mean, I suppose I should have expected that.

And then also that you have to pull over

to actually figure out this.

Oh, yeah, it won't let you read it if you're driving.

Right.

Unless it senses a passenger on the seat, it won't let you do it.

I mean, yeah, in some ways, I'm glad they have that that.

Well, I mean, I tried to figure it out.

I heard about a couple gallons of milk, set them on the seat.

You know, buckle the seatbelt, but it was just like, no.

It's too smart for that. Yeah.

I know what you're doing.

I was like, damn, it's like, take the gallons of milk off.

It's like, no, but no, but the technology really it is.

Like it makes because I look at it like that's all stuff

that it makes it harder to use the car.

And like this whole everyone's always talking about screen time

and how you're distracted driving.

Yeah, very.

For me to even change like the climate setting you're talking about.

You got to like look at the screen forever

instead of just having a button or a dial where you just go like temperature

or just a classic like red and blue for hot, cold, you know, that.

That was it. That was all it was.

And I mean, yeah, I mean to the listener out there,

how many things like you just tactile tactily tactily?

Yeah, just are able to adjust

without even looking at it in like the center console.

If you have an older car that has knobs, has buttons

that you can just move the slider.

You just know where everything is

and you can just make those subtle adjustments

without even having to take your eyes off the road, which as it should be.

I mean, it's like makes me think of

I remember reading how in 2018

Honda came out with like the Civic Type R

and then it had a volume slider.

And then in 2019, they brought the actual volume knob back.

That was one of the changes between model years.

And I remember reading journalists saying, like, oh, my gosh, thank goodness.

They brought back the volume knob.

And it was it was like this silly little thing that we just took for granted.

And then as soon as it's gone, I'm like, what?

What? Why did we need to change?

Well, because it's just it's a pain.

There's no reason to have the slider.

Just give us a knob.

But that's like that's like even Cadillac did the same thing.

Like, you know, you know that I love to gush about the black wing, right?

Yes. And we drove that.

But yeah, as that has that has a screen

that you can do all of the climate controls, for example,

and radio through the screen.

But it has redundant controls for all of it as well,

like buttons down below for temperature, for fan, for radio, for volume.

And it's like, thank you, just thank you

because Cadillac came out with that Q system.

Oh, gosh. Whenever that was like, well, like 2010 or 12.

That thing was awful. It was awful.

And it was like you had to do everything through the queue.

And it was miserable.

And it was always broken.

Finally, it was just like you you finally put buttons back in.

Like you actually did something smart.

General Motors, just freaking buttons and buttons and dials.

That's all you have to do.

Right. Yes.

Just give us buttons. That's all we ask.

Yeah, all we ask, which seems so simple and in in concept.

And yeah.

Well, I mean, and I get it from like an engineering standpoint,

like I could see an engineer being like, you know,

oh, the dash is too crowded.

Like let's just make it this black screen

that you just do everything through.

And then you can, you know, in like an Audi's and Beamer's,

you can like use the trackpad with your finger

or you can like tap to talk and tell the car like my my cousin

has like a new Mercedes SUV.

Yes.

And it's got like Google or whatever, like AI assistance.

So you just drive in the car, you just go, hey Mercedes,

change the temperature to 70 and turn the fan down.

You know, and like it will do any of it's like, hey Mercedes,

open the sunroof.

Like it'll do that.

It'll just take care of anything.

Right.

But it's like, I see, I don't like that.

Like to me, that's just another thing that can go wrong.

So just give me the button.

Right.

I mean, in the cameras too, like there's too many cameras

everywhere.

Like what happens when those start to go bad?

Like that, to go back to that expedition, that thing's

first car ever drove that super cruise.

Scared the bejesus out of me.

I got on the highway and I was like, oh,

I'm just going to turn on the cruise control.

And then it started steering for me.

And I was like, no, what's happening?

What's happening?

It's like, let go of the wheel.

Like, no, I'm not letting go of the wheel.

Wow.

So it really just wants to take over.

Oh, yeah.

I don't like that.

Super cruise.

I don't know, turn that off immediately.

I tried it.

But when it was passing a semi and it wasn't following

the lines the way I wanted it, I was like, yeah, you're done.

Right.

Yep.

Let me take over here.

I got this.

Yeah.

So I mean, so this is all part of why people are keeping

older cars longer, right?

Is the technology is changing.

And as a result, it's making them more expensive to work on,

more issues arise.

So people are saying like, hey, we've got like a 2000 and blah,

like Volvo or Cadillac or whatever.

And it's like, it's the perfect blend of it

has some technology, but not all the crazy stuff.

And it's like, you know, we own the car outright,

but it needs a couple thousand dollars worth of work.

And like, we're going to do that instead of buying a brand new car

for $55,000.

It's like, yes, that makes sense.

It does.

Yeah.

That the sense of, yeah, I have a good friend

who his dad has a 2014 Acura MDX.

And just that's, you know, he's driving that now since new.

And great car.

And yeah, it's another example of this car that just,

it has just all the amenities you need.

And not anything super, superfluous.

Yeah.

You just do the timing belt every 100K

and that thing will go 400,000 miles.

Yeah.

So you do start to see how it makes sense

and how you just figure that like, oh, I like this car enough

and you stick with it.

Yeah.

And that's just it.

Like that's part of the reason I wanted to bring it up

is like, this episode is I've just recently

had like a couple different scenarios

with different vehicles where like it is at that point

in the car's life that I'm going to talk about in a minute

where it's like they, they're old enough

and they have high enough miles

that it's like that decision on, do we put money into it

and drive it or do we get rid of it?

Right.

Because it's just not worth that extra money.

So the first one I want to talk about is I have,

at my house now, a 2010 Honda Accord.

That's a one owner Honda Accord that I actually just agreed

to purchase from the people that are selling it

because I'm actually going to fix it up

and then drive it as my winter car.

So it's a 2010 one owner and it's got 198,000 miles on it.

All right.

But the one saving grace is this car

has never been driven in the winter.

So it is spotless.

And you got to remember a listener like,

we are in the Rust Belt.

We're in New Hampshire.

Yep.

So cars get very crispy when they

start getting around 8, 10, 12 years old.

Like they start falling apart because of rust.

Yeah.

I didn't mean to be right.

That suggests that some people do just

have to move on by necessity if the car is falling apart.

That's just it.

Yes.

I mean, we could spend the whole episode on rust.

I mean, I can't stand it.

I mean, my brand new 20, well, it's not brand new,

but my 2022 Silverado, 12,000 miles on it.

It's starting to get a little bit of rust on it.

Like on the frame, like in spots where the coating has

come off.

And it's like that drives me freaking crazy.

It's like, oh, it's come on.

Like, why New England?

Why?

Yeah.

Yeah, it gets the best of us.

Yeah, but this Honda, what I wanted to talk about with this Honda

is like a big part of this episode

that I wanted to bring up and make a point with

is when I was talking to the people that owned it,

he was spitballing back and forth

to me on the path to take with this Honda.

And he has a Toyota Tundra pickup.

And he said to me that he was like, I would like to,

maybe I should just keep the Honda

and I'll drive it as my secondary car

because it gets better gas mileage than my truck,

like considerably better.

And I said to him, I was like, listen, like I get it.

I was like, if I was you, like you own the car, right?

And it owes you nothing.

Like I put 200,000 miles on it.

It's in decent shape.

I was like, but if you were gonna start driving it daily,

I was like, it needs some maintenance, right?

So it needs tires, like absolutely needs tires.

They are bald.

And then it needs a timing belt,

do for another timing belt.

It's got an oil leak that's pretty bad,

costs in a misfire, it's just got a few things.

Sure, yeah, it makes sense.

200,000 miles.

Yeah, and if like any shop was gonna work on it,

like the list of it needed, it's probably like,

two, three, maybe four grand,

you start putting new tires on it, right?

So I said that to him, I was like, if I was you,

it's your car.

I was like, I would just put a set of tires on it

and then drive it right into the ground.

Don't do any of the other work to it

and then just see how long it goes.

By just putting a set of tires on it, right?

And then I made the point to him, I was like,

but I just wanna be very clear

that one thing I wanna tell you

is I talk to people all the time about

when they have, for example, like say they drive

a pickup truck or whatever, like,

and that's their everyday car.

Like it's their business truck, it's their work truck,

but it's their car that they drive.

Just as just example, even say they have like a four runner.

Right?

You know, something doesn't get great gas mileage,

but it's not horrible.

And they will say like, I wanna get another car

like a Volkswagen Jetta or a hybrid or something

to drive and get better gas mileage.

My immediate reaction to that is you are

costing yourself money by doing that.

Like you don't make up for the cost differential

by buying a second vehicle to register, ensure,

and maintain for what the cost differential is

to just fill your car up, your everyday car.

Yeah, to just have one.

Yeah, so like I did, before we started this episode,

I just did some quick math just to kind of send

that point home.

So I took two vehicles that I own that I wanted to compare.

So my 2022 Silverado, that is like,

if I didn't have any of the other cars, right?

Like I just, I would have like a three quarter ton pickup,

which it is, it's a 2,500 Silverado.

And I would drive just that everyday.

Like that's like the number one car,

the one you drive, you get in it's reliable,

it's new, right?

So that would be it.

But I've been driving my 2006 GTO quite a bit.

So I just wanted to do a cost differential

just on gasoline for what it costs in a month,

do it between them.

So follow along with me on this, Ian.

All right, I'm here for it.

Here we go listeners.

All right, so the Silverado has a 36 gallon fuel tank.

Right?

Yep, yep.

The GTO has an 18 gallon fuel tank.

I just tried to do the simplest math possible.

I put in that if gas is $4 a gallon,

that cost $144 to fill up the tank on the Silverado.

And it costs 72 to fill it up on the GTO,

because it's half, right?

Exactly, yep.

Now, if I drive, I personally average

right around 20,000 miles a year.

That's, you know, 1820.

So I put in that comes down to driving 350 miles a week.

Yep, right.

Yep, yep, follow.

Yeah, so by that standpoint,

if you go by the math of how many gallons the tanks are

and the miles per gallon,

which the Silverado averages 14 miles per gallon.

And the GTO, I've been getting around town

and highway combined about 20.

So I'm trying to, you know,

average these just to make them simple numbers.

Sure.

So you're talking a six mile per gallon difference

better for the Silverado, right?

And the truck, my truck will go 500 miles on one tank of gas.

The GTO will go about 360, 350, 360 on one tank of gas.

So I would have to fill the GTO up every single week,

averaging 350 miles a week driving, right?

That's right, yeah.

Yep, so that comes out to 200 and I'll round up,

$290 a month to drive the GTO.

Just in gas, just gasoline listener, just gas.

Now the truck, because I can go quite a bit farther

with a bigger tank,

it's $396 a month to drive the truck just in gas.

So $400, $400 a month.

You're talking about basically $110 difference a month

to drive the car that's got better gas mileage, right?

So, or to drive the truck, I mean.

So $108 more to drive the truck.

So every month it's costing you that.

Now, if you factor in registration, insurance,

extra maintenance, and if you have a car payment,

it makes absolutely zero, zero financial sense

to have another vehicle.

You just pay the difference in gas and have the truck

if that's what you need every day, right?

So that's just a very basic, simple breakdown of it,

but it's just, because I talk to people

about that all the time, they're like,

oh, I have my truck I use for business, for work, et cetera,

but I need to do something different.

I gotta have another car.

It's like, no, you don't.

You don't.

It's like, just pay whatever it is,

just keep filling it up.

It's like, no, that can't be.

It's like, no, really.

You're talking about-

In the long run.

Yeah, you're talking about each fill up is your,

maybe 20 bucks more or $18 more at each fill up

to drive the other vehicle.

It's like, it's nothing.

Don't buy a six pack of nice beers.

Yeah, you can find that money elsewhere.

Yeah, exactly.

It's just, it's not worth having the other car.

So I wanted to talk about that

because if you really break down the cost,

because that difference in price of 110 bucks a month,

I mean, if you had another car,

you're easily talking like you got

four or $500 a month car payment,

and then you got to do your registration,

and then you got, yeah.

Right, insurance, and then maintenance.

Maintenance is not cheap.

The average is still like $2,500 a year in car maintenance

once it's five years older or older.

That's crazy.

So, yeah, it's just not worth having.

It's like, yeah, I hope that someone listens to that

and they just go, honey, like listen to this guy.

Like we aren't getting the same car

or a third car or whatever.

Yeah, give some actionable advice

that when you break it down there, yeah.

It's just, and it makes things simpler.

I mean, when you just have one vehicle there too.

No, and it's funny too, I'm talking to this family friend

about this Honda Accord, right?

Like this whole conversation.

And I was like, now listen,

like I understand that I'm being a hypocrite

because I have a lot of cars.

If I do, I have a lot of cars.

As the listener knows, Ian and I were car people,

like my dad and I, we have multiple cars

and trust me, we get that it's a little bit

of a hypocritical thing.

I was like, besides that, I was like,

I can prove to you on paper,

like it's a proverbial fan, right?

I would sell everything and just have one new truck.

That's it, right?

Like that's what I would have.

And so he basically was like,

oh, I didn't really think of that,

but like you're right.

Like, yeah, I don't want to have to like

try to just keep this car on the road

by doing like even a set of tires is like 6, 800 bucks.

And then you've got to register

and then I have to get it inspected and oh, yeah.

It's like, oh, I'll just drive my pickup.

I'm like, yeah, like, there you go.

Yeah, I think for most people,

it makes a lot of sense.

And it just, it simplifies the whole process

when you just have one car to think about.

I mean, again, you and I are contrary in that regard.

I mean, with that, it's really for most people

that makes the most sense.

Oh yeah.

Well, that's like, I tell everyone, like, you know,

I mean, I get it, like, if you work

and you like commute a long distance

and gas mileage is really important, like, okay,

but still the price differential is like,

you should buy the vehicle you need.

Like if you need a giant SUV, get a giant SUV.

Like, you know, even if you're commuting

an hour and a half, like just the cost differential

to fill it up, it's like, just do it.

Like it's not, yeah.

Yeah, if you're going to use that vehicle

for what it's intended and use it often,

then you can offset that, the cost of fuel

and maintenance everything if you're actually using it

as it's intended.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that's like, that's, you know,

talking about like, you know, whether you keep it

or you invest in it, et cetera.

Like that's just an example of one where it's like,

oh, we could have a backup car.

It doesn't owe us anything.

But then, I mean, you got to put the maintenance in

and it's like, that's another discussion

and another thing that you have reservation about.

It's like, you just, you have to weigh those options

and really think about how you're going to use the car.

You know, cause then, like with these people too,

it's like they, the car would be,

they'd store it like in the winters

because they live somewhere else during the winter

and then the car sits and then maybe there's road

and things and then like it just,

there's the whole list of stuff.

Like it could go wrong, right?

It's just at the end of the day, it's like,

it's just not worth it.

It really just is not worth it.

So, no.

Yeah.

Which makes it, I, a question there

for you, Brendan, is that so I think

for a lot of people, they get to a place

where they use vehicle and it's starting to need maintenance,

starting to need work.

And what's the tipping point there for you?

Well, that's just it.

Like that's the hard part, right?

So that's like, I don't have a definitive answer to that.

But usually like the best rule of thumb of that

is when the repairs that the car needs

exceed its value, it's just not worth it.

It's just send it to the crusher.

So like if you have a car that's saved worth

two or three grand, even if it's clean

and it needs $5,000 worth of work to be reliable,

like it needs tires, it needs brakes all around,

it needs oil leak or it needs a turbo

or it needs a transmission.

It's like just, just sell it for as much as you can

and just say goodbye.

It's just not worth it because the problem is

like this, of course, is a good example.

Like it, I've driven it like

and it runs good and it shifts good.

Like if it needed the transmission,

it'd be sent off to the crusher's

even though it's in like good shape.

It's just, it's not, because it needs so much

it just wouldn't be worth it, right?

But because it runs good and because it's not rusty,

it's like, yeah, we'll take a chance.

But that's just it with a used car, right?

This thing's at 200,000 miles on it.

Even if I do the timing belt,

it could be tomorrow, the fricking motor blows.

I mean, you just, you just don't know.

You just don't know, it's always a gamble.

Always a gamble on a used car,

especially when they start getting older

with higher miles on them.

And that's the decision.

It's like, how comfortable are you

with putting money into it versus not, right?

But that's usually it.

I mean, there's so many factors to your pointy

and about like, how do you know?

Like if it's a rarer car

or if it's a more unique car,

then maybe you agree to put more money into it

even if it's not worth it.

Like say you have like a Fox body Mustang

that's like grandma owned it

and she put 20,000 miles on it.

But it needs a motor.

Yeah, but the motor is more than what it's worth.

Right.

It's like you probably put a motor in it

because it's only got 20,000 miles on it.

You know, it's just, there's so many factors at play.

It is true.

Yeah.

The sense that, I mean, for a lot of people,

I think they have these vehicles in their lives

that I mean, yeah, was a family members

or has some sentimental value.

And it goes be, it transcends the value of the vehicle.

Just the idea that in that case,

that you're now sharing your life

with that car or carrying on the legacy.

So yeah, that's a whole different scenario

where you place that above it.

But it's a car like your Honda Accord there, for example.

It's just you don't have any real connection with it yet,

I should say, but the sense that if, yeah,

if the motor went, it's like, okay, well, then that's that.

Cause I think we do have those cars in our life.

I mean, we talk a lot about how we try to spotlight

those stories of cars that are memorable,

that stand out and yet for many, as we know,

they're a tool, they're something that they

gets them through their life.

Yes, a device.

A device to get you from A to B.

Right.

That's it.

Yes.

And at the end of the day, it needs to be reliable

and it needs to work.

And that's what it's worth.

And they're expensive.

They are.

They are, yes.

It's the second most expensive thing

you'll ever spend money on in your life,

is cars, yep.

Right, which is, yeah, you have to think carefully

about these things and not be quite so frivolous,

I suppose, as far as-

But I mean, but within reason, though,

like it's because you can be, but it's all,

it's all about making a calculated decision

because I look at it like, say you have a car,

it's worth five grand, but it needs so much work

that you gotta sell it for 1,000 or 1,500.

It's like you're better off to sell it

for the 1,000 or 1,500 and either pocket

the money or put it down on another car.

It's just not worth the time and effort.

Generally, it's just not worth it,

unless like there is a rare instance

where it's like a rare car or low miles, et cetera.

So this is a great segue into the other car

that I have here that is running

into the exact same problem as what we're talking about,

which is why I wanted to talk about it,

is I have a 2012 Volvo XC60R design here.

And I'll tell you right now, like I drove the car

an hour away from here back home.

Like I went down, put the dealer plate on it, drove it up.

And the car actually drive and handles very nice.

Like it's a very nice riding, driving car,

but it's a 2012 230,000 miles on it.

And it's showing its age, like it's got some rust starting

and the driver and passenger fenders

around the wheel wells are starting to rust.

And it needs, I have a list of things

that it needs from a inspection station

that said like this is what it's gonna take for this car

to be reliable, pass inspection, et cetera, et cetera.

Like a CV axle and a blower motor.

Well, that's more for comfort

and a couple other things for the motor.

After driving the car and then getting out,

because my immediate reaction was this thing needs to go away.

Like 230,000 miles, a little rust, like this thing,

it's not, it's just not worth it.

But after driving it, like I was like, okay,

like it's actually, it really, I mean Volvo,

they make a heck of a nice car.

That's, I mean, it's the least we know.

We like our Volvos in this car.

Oh yes, they really can rack up the miles

and do so comfortably.

Oh yeah, so I get it home and I put it on the lift

and I was amazed that the underside

is actually in nice shape.

Like a little bit of surface rust,

but like the rockers, the subframes, like the rear,

like everything was actually not in bad shape.

Cause my biggest thing being in the rust belt is rust.

I was like, if this thing has any rusted ever

on any of this stuff, like it's gone.

It's just not worth it.

So after seeing the underside, I was like, okay, okay,

I really need to reevaluate if it's worth fixing

the problems on this car and either the person can drive it

or you can fix it and sell it.

So I was like, but the one thing about this car

that throws a wrench into the gears

or you know, makes it even harder

is it has a motor issue.

So when you started, it's got lifter noise.

You're getting a car after it sat overnight

and you start it and it didn't until it builds oil pressure.

And it's non-exhaust leak.

I know what lifter tick is and it is, yeah, lifter tick.

And when I changed the oil in it to see if that helped

and it had quite a bit of gasoline in the oil,

which means the rings are worn

or they aren't freely moving.

And it's just after I changed the oil,

took it on spin and I couldn't get the motor

to spool up with the turbo.

It was, you'd step on the gas

and it would like bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, bup.

So with that and everything I've talked about with the car,

like the body's in good shape

enough to justify putting some money into it.

It's got decent tires.

Like it's got a couple little things with it, right?

But this motor issue for me is that's the deal break.

Cause like it shifts smooth, it goes good,

all wheel drive works, all that stuff.

But if at 230,000 miles it's got this motor issue,

I was like, it's just, it's not worth

fixing any of the other issues on it

because that's the thing is this motor

could go for another 50,000 miles

and it would be fine with those, the ticking, right?

Or you could be driving it the next day

and it goes kaboom.

Yes.

Right, that's the crux of it.

Yeah.

So it's that, it's their trade off.

So my advice on that,

it's, which I think is we're gonna go with

is I was like, let's see if we can't sell it

for 1,000, 1,500, a couple grand.

I mean, if someone just wanted a cheap knock-around car

that's got all wheel drive,

I mean, it might fit the bill

and maybe it'll last for them, you know, but.

Yeah.

Know what they're getting into and yeah.

Oh yeah.

And that's just it.

Like, you know, you put it for sale

and you tell them like, listen, this is what it needs.

It needs a blower motor

and it's got this lifter tick thing

and it's just got these little issues here and there.

But you know, besides that, it's pretty clean

and you know, it's a little bit of work

and it's all about what you're comfortable with.

But yeah, and that's just it.

Like if it had 70,000 miles on it

and it was in the same shape,

it'd be like, well, maybe we throw a used motor in it.

Yeah.

But because the whole thing's got 230,000 miles on it,

it's just, it's the slippery slope of

if we fix the motor and then we do the CV axle

and then we fix the leaking turbo

and then we do all this other stuff to it.

Right, right.

It's like, what's the next thing that's gonna break?

And then you're already in the negative

because the car's worth maybe four.

You know, three or four grand

if everything was fixed on it.

Like maybe, right?

Yeah.

And that's the hard part is it's like,

and the person that owns this car loves this car.

They bought the car with 70,000 miles on it

and in like a four, five year span or six year span,

they put where 180,000 miles on it or whatever it was.

Which yes.

It's crazy.

That is impressive.

And they love the car and I get it.

Like it's a nice car.

But my immediate reaction was like,

if you like that car,

I can find you that exact same car for sale

from like out west

for like eight or 10 grand with like 100,000 miles on it.

It's like, that's probably the way to go.

Yeah, it gives you, I mean,

there are opportunities to buy that car again.

You can figure it out.

And that, I mean, you've more than gotten the life

out of that car from everything you've told me.

Just, I mean, that kind of mileage.

And yeah, you can feel good moving on from it

knowing that, okay, it's time.

Like we've gotten the life out of this car.

We've shared many miles with it and know that, okay,

it's time to close the chapter.

Right, but like you touched on that's the hard part.

Is it like this Volvo specifically,

not so much the Honda Volvo is like,

I mean the sentimental attachment to it is crazy.

And like I get it.

Like I love my cars.

So I get it.

But it's also like, I look at it like,

maybe I'm a little jaded.

Maybe I don't know,

but like I look at that Volvo and go,

you could easily find another one.

It's not like it's a unique or rare model.

Like they have those for sale every day.

And in the famous words of my father

and Vernon's got his used car deal,

it's like there will always be another.

Always.

It's like, so you just buy your time

and you will find the car you want for the deal you want.

You just, you don't have to jump on it immediately,

right?

That's right.

Yes.

Words of wisdom there as we've talked about.

Unless it's a 66 Mustang

and you're buying it for a song

and then you've got to spread them like buy it.

Buy it now.

Like you're crazy.

Buy it.

Yes.

Yeah.

There are exceptions to everything.

It's hard to say goodbye.

I mean, as we've talked about these cars

become like a family member to you.

And particularly when in this party

with this Volvo of the miles shared with it.

And you just like, gosh, like.

Well, yeah.

All over the country.

It's like every mile of memory.

Yeah.

As we say, I mean,

and those miles will always be out of those memories.

I just say, we'll always be there

and always hold on to them.

So, but yeah, in the moment though,

it's got to be just so hard to say, okay, yeah.

This is, this is the last ride with it.

Yeah.

And I think that's the decision that's been made

is just like, yep, like it's, it's all right.

Like we're going to see if we can't sell it

and have some walking around cash and like it's all right.

But yeah, it is, it's tough

because it's like everyone goes through that, everyone.

And it's, it is, it's, it's walking that line of,

is it worth it?

And lots of times it's not.

And it comes down to a sentimental,

it comes down to a monetary and it is, it's, it's terrible.

Especially when you consider how much new cars

and maintenance and everything cost these days.

Yeah.

Right.

And there's so many factors to take into account.

I mean, we talk about it sometimes

about the idea of a forever car,

like the, the elusive or the idea of like,

cause we've talked all that so far in this episode of

when is the right time to move on,

what financially makes the most sense.

And there are cars out there that we share a bond with

that we just, and sometimes say, you know what,

like this is the forever car.

You've mentioned a few times with your cars

and I'm curious for you,

what is the definition of a forever car?

Or even is it, does that even exist?

Is it just something we, we put upon a car

and then know that, okay,

like circumstances can always change

and then things happen and you have to sell a car.

But I'm curious.

Well, I mean, I think,

well, let's see, to your last point there

about like circumstances change, right?

It's like, I mean, I've worked pretty hard

for what I've got and I'm lucky to have what I've got.

And I love working on cars and I get to do that.

If things got bad, it's like that's,

I mean, that is one of the more valuable assets

I have are the cars.

So if things got really bad,

then you would look at selling some of the cars.

But to your point about the forever cars,

like immediately, like the 66 GTO

that I got from, you know, Doc Olson there.

It's like, I will never sell that car.

It's like, you know, some like,

someone offers me like $150, $200,000 for it.

I might consider it.

I mean, that's not what the car's worth,

but it's priceless, right?

Like it's, I mean, the memory from it,

the history to it, the work I've put into it.

Like I will keep that car until the day I die.

Like I love that car.

It means more to me for the sentiment than anything else.

So that's like, that is absolutely

without question of forever car.

The other one that I have a wicked connection to

that obviously the listener knows what I'm going to say

because it's a car I bought twice is my 2006 GTO.

Like I, that's not a car that you buy twice

with the idea that you're going to sell it.

So like, and I'll tell you right now

for the listener as a followup to the episode

about me buying the 2006 GTO and that story

is I have been driving it quite a bit the last few weeks.

I have just fallen in love again with it.

It is just such a nice car to drive

and I like driving that car so much.

It's comfortable.

It's powerful.

It gets good gas mileage.

As long as I can, I will keep that car.

I will.

I mean like, yeah.

And like to your point too in like,

I really like my truck,

but my Silverado, it's meant to be used.

So it's like, I bought it with the idea

that that will be a 10 or 12 year truck.

Like I'll put 100, 150,000 miles on it.

Maybe it'll start getting rusty

cause I drive it in the winter on and off.

I don't know.

But when it starts to have enough problems

to where I need another one,

I will sell it and I will get another truck

even though I don't want to pay new truck prices.

You've got to have at least one car

that's new and reliable.

And for me, I just, I default to the truck

because I have a dump trailer and I tow equipment

and I tow cars and I mean,

I just got to have a truck.

So.

Yeah.

For everything you do and everything,

all the applications.

Yeah.

It just makes sense.

And like, for you Ian,

like I remember when you,

when you got rid of Lana

and convinced you about looking at a brand new all track

cause you got the six year 72,000 mile bumper to bumper

and it's just, it was a reliable car.

It's like, you keep that car until,

what's it got?

Like 70 or 80,000 miles on it?

It's almost at 80,000.

Yeah.

You'll drive that for probably a hundred, 10, 120,

but if it starts having any issues

or rust problems or anything like that,

it's like, you'll sell it

and you'll get another car.

Yeah.

Or is that a forever car?

You're gonna pull the classic Henry

where you drive it right into the ground.

Right into the ground.

Yes.

So it's worth $0.

Something like the Cadillac graveyard in Texas

where you just bury half of it right.

Right.

It's just like, well, at least it's art now.

I think Henry would like that.

Yes, right.

Yes.

The all track is one that I went into it thinking like,

okay, yeah, like coming from the GTI

which was a bit temperamental going into car

that was reliable.

And then no, where I find myself is at first,

I was like, this is like,

I'm gonna drive this into the ground.

And I may still do that.

Like, it's just-

Well, you can.

Yeah, absolutely.

Exactly.

You just gotta be ready when it does finally die

to buy another car.

And I think-

Because you need reliable transportation.

Right.

I think for me, the tricky part as far as,

I mean, this whole conversation tonight

is how keeping versus letting it go.

And that's why I asked about the whole idea

of a forever car.

Well, for you, it's a must thing though.

Yeah.

That's your forever car.

You will have that forever.

Like that will go to your kids or your brother

or grand, you know, nephew.

It'll be forever.

Like you will have the most thing forever.

It's the one that, yeah, just whatever it needs.

Oh.

I have it done knowing that, yeah, this is-

Well, yeah, and it goes up in value too.

Yeah.

Which is so nice with the older cars.

Like you put work into them and they go up in value.

It's like-

And I think-

Right.

Yeah, those, yeah.

When you have a classic in the family

or you have a car of that value,

it's just like, that's where it makes sense.

It's really, it's more so when we're talking about

your daily driver, your car that you still love

while also knowing, okay, realistically,

what do you need out of a car and what it does for you?

So, yeah.

Well, let me do this to answer your question too.

Let me say this.

So like me being the car guy that I am

as you know me as, is if I was you, right,

you've got the Mustang.

Yep.

Right?

Yes.

And then you've got your all track.

Right.

You keep the all track,

you turn the all track into your winter car.

Uh-huh.

And then you get like a much newer

or a brand new other fun car that you drive.

Oh, wow.

So like-

I'm just spitballing.

Like if you really liked like the BMW one series,

like you go get a BMW one series

or you get a new Mazda Miata or you know,

I mean, I don't know.

I'm just saying like that.

If I was you, that's what I would do.

Yeah.

But it's also not practical, right?

Because the practical thing would be to say,

hey, right now the all tracks got like 80,000 miles on it.

I'd probably get the most money for it

if I sell it before 100,000 miles

in the year, model year it is.

So I'm going to sell it

and then I'm going to get a brand new Volkswagen blah

or Honda blah or whatever's got a manual, right?

Like that's the practical side.

Yeah, that's the thing that is tough

because I bought that all track knowing,

I mean, Volkswagen, there is no other car

to go up to next from here in Volkswagen's lineup.

It doesn't exist.

Well, you could get a Volvo, just can't get them in.

There's no manual.

Yeah, there's no manual.

I know, it's depressing.

But I could see you in a V90 wagon.

I could definitely see that.

Yes, I just, the stick shift really is a,

that's not a comfortable.

We'll put one in for you.

They'll put one in.

Oh no, we'll put one in.

Bring it up to the shop.

We'll put a six wheel right.

Drop it right in.

I'm sure it'll link up, no problem.

Yeah, it won't void the warranty either.

No, I'm sure.

Nice, nice.

Yeah, they'll sign off on it, absolutely.

To be determined.

I mean, I think that's part of where I bought the car.

I mean, yeah, in typical Henry logic,

I'm like, yep, I'm going to drive it into the ground.

Like this is like the forever.

And in part because wagon, all wheel drive stick shift,

I knew it was the last model year

for the Volkswagen, for the all track.

And then it was like, yeah, like this is it.

This is all I need.

This is the car and we're done here.

And so, but as, I mean, it'll be,

it'll be six years I've had it in mid-September, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's been a great car for you.

It has been a phenomenal car for you, reliable.

Yeah, great car.

Well, that's it though.

That's, let me ask you that.

What, you must know what the replacement would be.

Say the motor goes in it tomorrow.

Oh jeez.

Would you put a motor in it?

Or would you, would you get a new car?

Putting that energy out there?

Oh man.

Oh no, the all track is going to go for a hundred and fifteen

oh, I'm just saying, I'm just curious.

What would the new car be?

Would you get a Toyota?

Would you stick with a Volkswagen?

Would you go Audi?

I mean, there's so many options for a manual.

There are a lot of options.

Yeah, I have thought about it

because, you know, we have the car disease.

No, you've thought about it?

No.

Which, yeah, it's a little,

I know a little heartbreaking to the all track

because I was like, this is forever.

I guess, Volkswagen is actually straight out

because you can't even get the GT-R Golf R

with a manual anymore in the U.S.

You can't get a Golf R with a manual anymore.

2024 was the last year.

If anyone that works for Volkswagen

ever listens to this episode,

what is wrong with you?

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Jeez.

That's what, that's what I mean.

I've been having one of the best driver's cars ever,

to not, and I don't care how advanced the DSG is.

What the hell?

Oh, this episode's becoming unhinged.

Well, it's so stupid.

I mean, people, people want a car like that.

They want a manual.

Yeah, I think the manual, I think it was.

A real manual, not paddle shifters.

Right, well, what's funny is I read that.

I think for the 2024 model year,

last year for the manual,

more people bought it with the manual knowing that,

and they still stopped making it for 2025.

So that's what I mean.

Like Volkswagen is straight out for me.

It's just like, nope, like I can't get a manual

when anything in Volkswagen's like that,

so they're done.

That's so sad.

It is, because I do love VW,

and I've had two great cars

when they're my experience with them,

but it's just like, yep.

I've said that forever.

I've said that on the podcast before.

If I had to go buy a brand new car tomorrow,

I would go to the Volkswagen dealership

and get a Jetta with a five-speed or six-speed or whatever.

Without question, why not?

A great car, inexpensive, and it's fun to drive.

It is a sad state of affairs there.

I would definitely try out the,

to be into the GR Corolla,

I'm just really curious about that little

like rally monster of a hatchback.

And I think that would be wicked fun.

Keep that, I would love a hatch

just for all of my adventuring

and all that that I do.

I do appreciate a hatch.

Oh yeah, I like those.

I like those.

I would be curious about a Honda Civic Si

or just try out a Civic.

Like I mean, you can get it in many different forms.

You can still get that six-speed manual in the Si

I think that would be a great one.

Those that I think those two would be top of the list.

What was that car we saw at the road rally?

Was it a Hyundai?

I'm about to mention the Hyundai Elantra N.

Yeah, yes.

I would be curious if it's only a sedan.

It's only a sedan.

Okay, okay.

Only a sedan.

Yeah, so that would be,

I think of like those three as far as buying a,

because I'll be honest,

like I do sometimes sit back

and wish the Elantra was a little bit more sporty,

like just a little bit more going on.

That is true.

When we drove it, I thought the same thing.

Like if it had like 20 more horsepower.

Yes.

It would actually, it would change it drastically.

Yeah.

If it had 200 horsepower instead of 170,

I think it would be a different car.

Yeah, like 30, 40 more horsepower.

I wonder if you could tune it.

Oh, people tune them all the time.

I see them, I see all track builds all the time.

They increase some boost pressures in there,

avoid the warranties, you know, all that fun stuff.

Yeah.

I mean, it's out of warranty now,

so I mean, anything's possible.

You still have your rust corrosion.

Oh, that's true.

Your federal emission work for me.

Yes, that's true.

So, you know, I don't want to jeopardize that.

Right, no.

Well, and then that's just the whole idea of like,

okay, then that's a whole another money conversation

about putting money into something that,

okay, you're now trying to make the all track

something it never was intended to be.

And so it's just seeking out a car that it can do it better.

Yeah, and you're touching on,

like we've talked about before,

it's like, I tell people, it's like,

you need the everyday reliable car.

Like you need that, especially if you live

like where we are in New England

where you have to drive places, right?

So you need the one car that you're not messing with

that's reliable, that's like new enough, right?

And then you can have a fun car.

Yeah.

Because like I've done it forever.

So the last thing you want to do is be like,

well, I've got to go to work tomorrow.

But I need to finish this, you know,

valve cover gasket job.

It's like, no, leave that in the garage

and work on it later.

And it's like, let's go hop in the brand new car

that you just touch the button or the key and you drive.

It's like, yeah, that's nice.

Yeah, I know, and I'd be curious.

I mean, I still, speaking of key,

I have a real deal key with the all track.

That's the other thing that.

Don't rub that in.

I can't stand that.

It's another reason why I'm like, I don't know.

I could run this into the ground

because it has a real key and I know those.

There are some cars that still do the real key, but.

They're few and far between.

So I do love that.

Yeah, it's got a real key.

It's got a real e-brake.

Yeah, it's just, I do love it for all those things.

And just, yeah.

So nothing, no big movement happening right now.

With it, so.

So what about, so Acura still does, I mean.

Oh, you know, so actually I forget.

Like I'd be curious about the Acura Integra.

Yes, the Integra Type S.

Oh, that thing's quite, quite the car.

I mean, I've read, I've only read about it,

but man, like that seems quite a special car with,

and it's a hatch, it's a subtle hatch.

You don't know it by looking at it,

but it is a hatchback.

Yeah, and you're definitely a wagon hatch guy.

Yeah, you know, actually the, yeah, the Type S actually,

I mean, that's a 50 grand car.

I mean, that's, I mean, by today's standards,

that's not bad.

It's actually a full circle we were talking about, yeah.

I mean, it's really, it's not bad by today's standard

for what you get for performance

and Acura's legendary reliability, right?

Yeah, that's one that you could then drive forever

just because it's got.

Well, as long as it doesn't rust out,

it'll go 3,000 miles.

Yeah, you just keep it nice, yeah, absolutely.

It's, yeah, so that's one too.

But you see, you didn't bring it up,

and I'm actually really surprised

that you didn't mention it,

but a car that I could absolutely see you having

that's brand new because they don't depreciate

is a Jeep Wrangler.

You can still get those with a manual.

And being on the Seacoast, what a fun car.

So I could totally see you retiring the all track

and getting like, not even like a fancy one.

You don't have to get a Rubicon.

No, just the big. A Sahara.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I could totally see you being a Wrangler guy.

And I mean, those things, like they don't depreciate,

you buy a brand new one.

That's true. You believe the value they hold,

but you can still get them in a, you still get a manual.

They do still exist a manual, yep.

Well, like what I would do honestly,

and like if you were really considering

like it's maybe it's time, like go rent one.

Rent a new Jeep Wrangler from like Enterprise or something

and drive it for like a couple of days,

not just like a lot test drive at a dealership,

like actually drive one for a couple of days.

But I would, I would narrow it down to two is right.

Like I've always told you.

Narrow it down to two.

Drive the Integres, drive the Wrangler,

whichever one you like better, that's the one you buy.

It's true.

I mean, it would be two very different experiences,

both manual and what are you looking for?

So for how active you are, like you're always going out

and I mean, you're fishing, you're hiking,

you're doing things with friends,

you're bringing a cornhole game with you.

That's true.

You need the space.

So having a Wrangler would be perfect.

I don't know about you,

but I would actually get one with the soft top.

I mean, cause why not?

Not the hard top thing.

Right. Yeah.

I mean, you want to just be able to throw,

put that top down anytime.

Well, stay tuned listeners.

What do you think I should do?

Let us know.

Yeah, what should he and do?

Please contact us at lifepluscarsatgmail.com and tell us.

Tell us what he and should do for a car.

Right.

I mean, maybe he should buy an Aston Martin DB7

Vellante with a manual,

cause those aren't rare or expensive.

And then I can drive it.

Yeah.

Cause that is on my bucket list.

I think after I win the Powerball.

Yeah. Yeah.

There are no contingencies with this plan whatsoever.

Yeah.

Well, I suppose we shall wrap this one up here

and listeners,

if you were inspired by anything we talked about today,

what a snow.

Do you have cars right now

that you're on the fence about?

Do you let it go?

Do you keep it?

Do you have a forever car in your lineup

or in your family?

And what makes it a forever car?

We talked a little bit about that today.

I hope that we have shared some actionable advice.

Brendan, you certainly shared some great tips here today,

which I know I appreciate.

Yes.

And it's tough.

Like I get it.

Like it is, it's tough.

And it really comes down to money.

And yeah, it's a really, really tough decision

people go through.

And I hope if anyone's going through anything like this

with a car now,

or even if it is one that's like,

say it is a rarer car that's been in the family

for a while.

It's like, yeah.

Please let us know about it.

We want to hear what you've got you're working on

and making these decisions.

And just know that we've been there too.

And it is, it's never easy.

But most people, they need that reliable transportation.

And it's just making that best financial decision

to make that happen.

That's right.

And it's all worth it when it comes to sharing life

plus your car, right, Brendan?

Exactly.

It is.

Yeah.

Well, we really appreciate the listener joining us

for another fantastical, magical extravaganza

of life plus cars.

That's right.

#16: To Keep or Let Go

About this episode

Ford Expedition

Honda Civic

Acura Mdx

Honda Accord

Chevrolet Silverado

Toyota Tundra

Volkswagen Jetta

Pontiac GTO

Ford Mustang

Volvo Xc60R

Mazda MX-5 / Miata

Volvo V90

Volkswagen Golf

Toyota GR Corolla

Hyundai Elantra

Acura Integra

Jeep Wrangler

Wrangler Rubicon

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