00:04
This is America on the Road named Best Radio Show by the International Automotive Media
00:07
Conference and now in its 33rd year on the air.
00:10
Thanks for being with us as we bring you the latest automotive information from around
00:16
With me is co-host Chris Teague and Chris, this is a question I have for you.
00:20
Kind of a sports question.
00:21
Do you think Tennessee's going to bounce back from that horrible loss to Georgia?
00:25
Boy, that was painful.
00:26
I had to make peace with Tennessee's up and down performances many, many, many years ago.
00:31
They were very good when I was growing up in Knoxville and then they kind of hit an
00:34
up and down streak and that's where they've been ever since.
00:37
So I've kind of given up on hoping for a national championship.
00:40
Oh boy, that was a tough one to take.
00:43
Plenty of news to talk about in the car business this week.
00:46
Ram has decided to shut down development of a vehicle it was once very high on.
00:51
We'll tell you what that is and give our reactions to that coming up.
00:55
Toyota is recalling nearly 700,000 vehicles including all of its battery electric vehicles.
01:00
It's possible one of the recalled vehicles is in your driveway.
01:04
So we'll have the details that could keep you safe.
01:07
The U.S. Congress is moving to curb catalytic converter thefts that are plaguing the nation.
01:12
We have tons of that here in Southern California.
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We'll have more information on their plan coming up.
01:17
Lucid Motors and Uber have inked a robo-taxi deal that could prove to be a lifeline for
01:22
the struggling EV maker.
01:24
We'll have more on that.
01:25
So lots to talk about, Chris.
01:26
Any of these just pique your interest?
01:28
I like the Ram Truck story, Jack.
01:30
I wrote about it yesterday and there's some interesting things there.
01:32
So I'm happy to talk about that one.
01:34
Yeah, that is a fascinating one.
01:36
American on the Road is brought to you by drivingtoday.com, emlancy.com, the publisher
01:41
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That's drivingtoday.com slash auto hyphen insurance.
02:02
As you longtime listeners of the show know, Chris lives at one end of the country.
02:06
I live at the other.
02:07
Each week we get together to talk about cars, the car industry, and how you can save some
02:12
Chris, what is your test vehicle this week?
02:14
I spent the week behind the wheel of the 2026 Chevrolet Silverado EV Trail Boss.
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It's an all new trim for 2026 and I can't wait to tell you all about it.
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My test vehicle this week is the 2026 Honda Passport Trail Sport.
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So I'll tell you all about that.
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Our special guest this week is a friend of the show, Sam Fiorani, a terrific guy.
02:33
He serves as vice president of global vehicle forecasting for auto forecast solutions.
02:39
And we're going to be talking about the end of the EV tax credits that's coming up at
02:43
the end of this month.
02:44
So we'll see what effect that has on EV sales.
02:49
We have tons of show for you and we'll be right back right here on America on the Road.
02:57
Welcome back everybody to America on the Road.
02:59
Check me out along with Chris Teague with you for News Time and an interesting news story
03:05
that has piqued Chris Teague's interest in mine too.
03:09
Ram is essentially ash canning their battery electric pickup truck.
03:13
This is a vehicle that we have talked about a lot on the show.
03:16
They have talked a lot about it.
03:18
Ram and Stellantis they announced this week that they will end development of the battery
03:22
electric Ram truck.
03:24
And it's kind of an interesting take isn't it?
03:27
I know you've written about it.
03:28
Tell us your thoughts.
03:30
I think that there are probably two things that Ram is seeing with this truck that's
03:34
making them change their mind.
03:35
They're probably way more than what I'm analyzing here.
03:37
But buyer demand is one thing.
03:39
They're seeing that expensive EVs aren't selling the way that a lot of people had hoped.
03:43
And then also it just took them a really long time to get this truck to market.
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I mean it wasn't even scheduled until late next year at the earliest.
03:50
And all the other trucks have been on the market for a while and this is just not that
03:55
I think a lot of the trucks have been on the market and I don't know that they're setting
03:59
I think things like the Ford F-150 Lightning are doing okay and you're going to be talking
04:04
about the Silverado EV later in the show so we can talk about that.
04:08
Ram is going to have, I guess you would call it, they call it a range extender.
04:14
I would essentially call it a hybrid, right?
04:18
Ram 1500REV is what they're going to call what they had previously called the Ram Charger,
04:25
which I think maybe was a better name.
04:28
But what were your thoughts on that?
04:30
I think this gets them around some of the range anxiety issues, but what I don't think
04:35
it does is gets them past the perception of their buyers, right?
04:37
This is the brand that was built on the Hemi V8.
04:40
The buyers raised hell when they got rid of it and now they brought it back and now they're
04:43
trying to sell an electric truck.
04:45
Range Extender or not, I think it's going to be a hard sell for Ram buyers.
04:49
I mean we both like that new six-cylinder engine, the turbocharged six-cylinder engine
04:54
But at the same time, truck buyers indicated that they weren't all that excited about that
05:01
and I think a lot of truck buyers were excited when Ram brought back the Hemi V8 after a
05:09
It's interesting where Ram's going to go.
05:11
I mean they certainly hang their hat on things like luxury.
05:15
They have some very luxurious personal use trucks like this tungsten trim.
05:20
They also have the Cummins diesel.
05:22
So there's certainly some good reasons to consider Ram trucks.
05:26
I don't know that electric vehicle or the lack of an electric vehicle is going to hurt
05:31
Yeah, and the range extended truck that they're selling or will be selling still has some
05:36
pretty decent specs.
05:37
I think it tows 10,000 plus pounds when it's properly equipped and those sort of things.
05:42
I just, you know, I think that people who like the V8 sound, like the V8, the sensation
05:46
of that engine are going to miss that and the V6 isn't even connected to the drive wheels.
05:50
It just powers the, generates electricity to charge the battery.
05:54
So I think it's going to be some education that they need to do with buyers.
05:57
Yeah, I think a lot of people, even truck buyers don't really have a sense of how the
06:03
I guess the typical truck operates very conventionally, right?
06:08
But some of these newer vehicles and these hybrids, et cetera, operate in a different
06:13
way and maybe that's lost on people.
06:16
They go six cylinder and go, I don't want a six.
06:21
Let's talk about Toyota recalling nearly 700,000 vehicles in the United States.
06:27
More than 590,000 Toyota and Lexus models are being recalled for a malfunctioning
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infotainment system.
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The 12.3 inch instrument panel display can prevent the screen from turning on its
06:41
startup or go blank while driving.
06:44
Potentially leaving drivers, you know, kind of at a loss.
06:47
I mean, in theory, I would think that if your infotainment screen went out, you
06:52
could still drive the vehicle.
06:54
But what's your take on that, Chris?
06:56
I think a lot of it probably has to do with the backup camera and the available
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information for it to meet the federal motor vehicle safety standards, the FMVSS.
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But, you know, you're not supposed to rely on those things solely as your driving
07:07
assistance technology.
07:09
But once you get used to it being there, even if you're still using your eyes, it's
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still an inconvenience and could present a safety problem for it to be blank.
07:17
Big important and, you know, highly sold vehicles are involved in this.
07:21
Toyota Camry, the Toyota RAV4.
07:23
I think the RAV4 is the best selling vehicle in the United States.
07:26
The Toyota Tacoma pickup truck, the Toyota Grand Highlander.
07:31
There are Lexus LS, RX and TX models also involved in this.
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It will be fixed free.
07:40
The other recall was nearly 95,000 electric vehicles, which happens to be virtually
07:46
all of the electric vehicles that Toyota has put out there into the marketplace.
07:51
The Toyota BZ4X, the Lexus RZ and of course the Subaru Saltero, which is the twin
07:59
It's not a Toyota product, but it's also being recalled.
08:02
These have windshield defrosters that may not work well.
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So then you have visibility problems.
08:09
And of course, the defroster in an electric vehicle doesn't work the same way
08:13
a defroster in a conventional vehicle works, right?
08:17
These are my favorite kinds of recalls, like the ones that are just kind of,
08:20
they sound silly on paper, but they end up being an issue that needs to be fixed.
08:24
But it is interesting that Toyota, you know, they've done pretty well with recalls
08:28
on the EVs so far to date, hybrids as well.
08:31
So it's interesting to see so many of them pop up out of nowhere.
08:36
Well, a catalytic converter theft is a big problem here in Southern California,
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And I'm wondering if it's a big problem in Maine.
08:46
There's a move now to a federal move, which is interesting to try and curb that a bit.
08:54
I'm sure that there are some catalytic converter thefts.
08:56
I live in a smaller town and, you know, it doesn't really happen here, but it has become
09:01
a very annoying problem for my friends down south and for you guys on the West Coast.
09:04
So I think anything to help here would be great.
09:06
I mean, we've had instances out here where somebody will see the catalytic converter
09:11
being stolen from their vehicle go out and confront the criminals, which not necessarily
09:17
the wisest thing in the world to do, and end up dead, you know, end up shot by the people
09:22
who are stealing the catalytic converter.
09:24
I mean, that's the kind of issue this is.
09:27
I guess the thieves can get something like $350 for each catalytic converter that they
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sell on the black market.
09:35
If you have to replace it, it'll cost you maybe well over $1,000.
09:40
So the fix is, and it's not that big a fix, but is at least to have the vehicle identification
09:48
number, the VIN, put directly onto the catalytic converter so they can be traced a bit.
09:54
I think we've had that kind of instance here.
09:56
We had an instance here.
09:57
In fact, it happened to me where the third row seats of Chevrolet Tahoe's were being
10:02
stolen, you know, just all the time.
10:07
And then you would get the insurance settlement go into a place that had a bunch of third row
10:14
It seemed like I was buying back my own seats at that point, you know, and I'm wondering if
10:18
the same kind of thing is going to happen with the catalytic converters.
10:23
Yeah, I'm sure it's happening, you know, less than reputable shops, people trying to save money.
10:27
But I've heard some of these things, you know, people imprinting the VIN on their
10:30
their catalytic converter, installing cage systems around this and all that.
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But when you start getting into like personal safety, you mention people getting shot while
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trying to stop the thefts.
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That's a problem for me beyond a few dollars for a new catalytic converter.
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And, you know, word to the wise, don't be confronting criminals because God knows what
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they're going to do.
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I mean, I'm a little leery about even honking at somebody who commits some kind of egregious
10:57
traffic problem in front of me.
11:01
Well, Lucid and Uber are going to have inked a deal.
11:04
They finalized a $300 million partnership to advance autonomous ride hailing.
11:11
This is something that, you know, Lucid had not been participating in up till now, at least
11:16
But maybe this is a market for the gravity SUV that we reported on years.
11:23
It seems like a couple of years ago and has yet to really come to market.
11:27
I'm curious as to what you think about all this.
11:29
Yeah, Lucid has pretty significant financial backing, but it's never really been the most
11:33
successful startup automaker.
11:35
So this could be a good way for them to get, as you said, some of those gravities into
11:42
But it is interesting to see this announcement because, as you said, Lucid has been very quiet
11:46
about its driving assistance technologies.
11:48
It's not been out testing vehicles like Tesla has and the others.
11:53
I'm interested to see how and where this is implemented and how far along they are on
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this road of development.
11:59
Yeah, it'll be interesting to see.
12:00
And of course, these driverless taxis are, I guess, the coming thing.
12:05
We're seeing a lot more of them here in Southern California.
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So that's coming up.
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When we come back, we will have two very cool road test vehicles.
12:13
You're going to be testing the Chevrolet Silverado EV and I think in a new trim, right?
12:19
Yes, it's the new Trail Boss trim.
12:21
It's an off-road model.
12:24
It's got some big tires and interesting features that can't wait to tell you all about it.
12:28
I'm looking forward to that off-road EV truck and your review of that.
12:34
I was driving a vehicle that also has some off-road aspirations, the Honda Passport
12:41
So stay with us for that.
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And we'll be right back right here on America on the Road.
12:50
Welcome back, everybody, to America on the Road.
12:52
Check me right back with you along with Chris Teague and Chris.
12:55
You have a really interesting view.
12:56
I'm really curious to hear what you have to say about the Chevrolet Silverado EV,
13:02
especially in this special off-road form.
13:05
Yes, I tested the Trail Boss trim.
13:10
Taking a step back, Jack, you can get into this truck for around $55,000.
13:13
That's the basic work truck.
13:15
So for that money, you get vinyl upholstery, vinyl floors, a white paint job,
13:20
and a pretty basic pickup truck.
13:23
My Trail Boss with the Max Range battery, which is the most expensive battery you can get,
13:27
came in at just over $90,000.
13:29
So it's quite a spread of pricing for this vehicle.
13:31
But there's also a spread of features here, Jack.
13:33
Have you driven the Silverado EV?
13:35
And if so, what do you think?
13:36
I believe I drove one in North American Car of the Year that my only exposure to it
13:41
and a very short exposure, it seemed like it was just fine.
13:45
But again, like I say, it was a short time with it,
13:48
so I didn't have to deal with all the electric aspects of it really,
13:52
or get the chance to take it off road.
13:54
Yeah, some of the electric aspects might be the most impressive parts of this vehicle.
13:58
The base work truck, as I mentioned before, is not only the cheapest,
14:01
but it still comes with pretty good range.
14:02
It's a 286-mile base range for this vehicle,
14:05
which is I think the same range as my Honda Prologue,
14:08
which is the top trim of that vehicle.
14:09
So just to show you where that goes,
14:11
my Max Range Battery Test Vehicle, though,
14:14
offers 478 miles of range per charge.
14:17
So that makes it one of the longest range vehicles on sale.
14:20
I think maybe Lucid is one of the only ones that beats it.
14:24
But that's a great addition for this vehicle.
14:27
The Trail Boss adds lifted suspension, 35-inch tires on 18-inch wheels,
14:32
and you get some off-road drive modes with this vehicle, too.
14:35
One of the interesting things here, Jack,
14:37
and I want to get your opinion on the acceleration of this vehicle,
14:39
even though this is the off-road trim,
14:41
you still have the Watts to Freedom, the WTF acceleration mode.
14:46
What do you think about the speed of these trucks, given their size?
14:49
It's kind of uncanny, right?
14:52
I mean, it's almost otherworldly to really step on the accelerator on these things
14:57
and see how quickly they can go from 0 to 60 or how quickly they accelerate.
15:01
I mean, it kind of sears your eyeballs in some ways.
15:04
It does. It's almost unsettling to feel that sort of acceleration in a vehicle
15:08
that sets that tall with 35-inch tires.
15:11
But it could be a blast, I guess, if you really wanted it to be.
15:14
This vehicle also gets some of the goodies from the Hummer EV.
15:17
It rides on the same platform.
15:19
It's very similar underneath.
15:20
It gets four-wheel steering and also a diagonal driving mode.
15:23
I think the Hummer calls it crab walk, maybe Rivian calls it that.
15:27
But it basically allows the vehicle to drive at like a 45-degree angle
15:30
to go around off-road obstacles.
15:33
It's a really neat thing.
15:33
I couldn't find a reason to use it in town,
15:36
but I'm sure that people have a good reason.
15:39
I think tight parking, parallel parking spaces are where they show it off.
15:43
So these New England streets are not very friendly for a vehicle of this size,
15:46
though, I can tell you that.
15:48
One of the things I want to point out here, and it's most interesting
15:51
about the driving experience here,
15:52
is that this vehicle uses General Motors Altium Battery and Platform Technology,
15:56
which is the same technology that underpins my Honda Prologue.
16:00
It's made by General Motors.
16:00
The driving experience between the Altium-powered vehicles is so similar
16:05
that driving the Silverado EV feels almost exactly the same as driving the Prologue
16:10
or driving the Acura ZDX.
16:11
The only difference there is the size and the weight of the vehicle that you're feeling.
16:15
It doesn't mean it's bad.
16:16
There's nothing wrong with it at all.
16:17
It's just, it's a fine driving experience, Jack.
16:20
I don't want to give you the impression.
16:22
Don't you get the impression that every electric vehicle
16:24
feels kind of like every other electric vehicle?
16:27
I do, but I think the difference here for me is that the sizes of these vehicles
16:30
are different, but they still drive so similarly that they're not completely interchangeable,
16:37
Inside, you get a 17.7-inch touchscreen, a large digital gauge cluster here.
16:42
Google built-in is standard, but one of the things you don't get,
16:45
or two of the things you don't get, are Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.
16:48
And General Motors will tell you that their interface is just as good,
16:51
that everything works just fine.
16:52
And in practice, in most ways, it does work just fine.
16:55
But what you get is a very basic Bluetooth music interface
16:59
that makes it difficult to navigate your songs and your podcasts and things like that.
17:03
And Jack, I know we talk about how difficult infotainment systems can be to use at times,
17:08
but I think Apple CarPlay and Android Auto fulfill a purpose,
17:11
even if they can be annoying for automakers.
17:14
Yeah, I think they do, because we use our phones all the time, right?
17:17
We use our phones a lot more than we use our cars, typically.
17:20
So understanding your phone is pretty basic.
17:22
We also, sometimes we keep our phones, some of us do, a lot longer than we keep our cars.
17:28
That's not possible for me, because I think the car that we have in our household predates
17:34
cell phones, practically.
17:35
Rotary phones, right?
17:38
But yeah, so like I said, the functionality is there.
17:42
You can figure it out, but what you get instead of a clean interface is basically a list of
17:46
folders that don't make sense, and it's hard to navigate through at first.
17:50
So I really would love to see an addition of this feature back to these vehicles at some point
17:56
I know why they did it, but it is not a good user experience.
17:59
So I think that they get improved it by adding those features back.
18:02
You get a full suite of safety features here, too.
18:04
Blind spot monitoring with rear cross-traffic alerts, adaptive cruise control, and this vehicle,
18:08
this trim is available with General Motors SuperCruise, so you can do hands-free driving
18:13
on the highway, but that's not available for every Silverado EV trim.
18:16
So, Jack, I enjoy this vehicle.
18:18
I like electric vehicles.
18:19
I like electric trucks.
18:20
I think 90 plus thousand dollars is way out of my budget.
18:24
But if you could get into an LT model of this, which is the sort of lower-end trim and still
18:28
get many of the features for around 60 grand, 70 grand, you'd be doing pretty well.
18:33
What is your sense of just the utility using that truck as a truck, right?
18:38
Using it as a pickup truck?
18:40
Yeah, so you don't get a long bed option in this vehicle.
18:42
You only get the crew cab short bed body style.
18:45
It does have the flex midgate, which allows you to fold down the space between the cab and the
18:50
bed to fit longer items.
18:51
But it is a little shorter and it does have, I don't know what they're called,
18:56
some body-style things on the side that make it look like the Chevy Avalanche,
19:00
which do reduce some of the utility.
19:01
But it's still pretty useful as a truck.
19:04
I'm glad to hear that.
19:05
Interesting report, interesting vehicle.
19:07
I look forward to driving one maybe someday.
19:10
I'd like to tell you about the 2026 Honda Passport Trails Sport.
19:14
And of course, a couple years ago, I think Honda decided they'd climb on this bandwagon
19:19
of everybody making off-road, at least off-road appearance packages on various SUVs.
19:28
They have done that with the Passport and the Trails Sport as the result.
19:32
They kind of got dinged for the first version of this because it was,
19:36
you know, just kind of like putting on off-road clothes, right?
19:39
Like you put on Columbia gear and suddenly you're a hiker or something, you know,
19:44
which isn't quite the case.
19:46
This time around, I think they've changed it enough to give it some kind of credibility
19:53
I wouldn't say this is a heavy-duty off-roader and I don't think Jeep has anything to worry about
19:57
from the Passport Trails Sport.
20:00
But it's a pretty good-looking vehicle.
20:03
This is a two-row, five-passenger vehicle typically, conventionally powered,
20:08
or very conventionally powered as I will get into in a little bit.
20:11
Let's talk about the outside.
20:13
You know, it has Trails Sport badging, of course.
20:15
It has black mirror caps and door handles.
20:18
It has what Honda describes as a more aggressive front grille and it has dual exhaust finishers.
20:26
18-inch wheels and all-terrain tires.
20:28
So there is some added capability there.
20:31
It has roof rails, of course, that kind of thing.
20:33
What did you take on the looks of this thing?
20:36
And it's just kind of on this overall idea of these kind of off-road looking vehicles.
20:42
Yeah, I never loved the previous generation Honda grille, the sort of slanted nose that they have.
20:48
I like the more upright look that they gave the Passport and the Pilot and also the Ridgeline.
20:54
And you know, we've talked about this a bunch of times on the show.
20:56
Whether it can go off-road or not, it's probably irrelevant to 90% of the people who buy this vehicle.
21:01
It's the look that it could do those things that matters to a lot of buyers.
21:05
And I think Honda hit the nail on the head with the styling there.
21:08
Yeah, I think I would agree with that.
21:12
Under the hood, it sticks with the 3.5-liter V6 engine.
21:17
An engine that has had some quality problems dating back a little bit.
21:23
We've seen some recalls, I think, on this engine in other vehicles.
21:27
But it delivers 280 horsepower, 262 pound-feet of torque.
21:30
This is very, very conventional, right?
21:33
We're not seeing a lot of V6-powered vehicles, a lot of turbos in this space these days.
21:38
It's made it to a nine-speed automatic transmission and then it has a torque-vectoring all-wheel drive
21:44
system, which in some instances, I always kind of looked at the system as being an
21:50
on-road system rather than an off-road system.
21:53
But I think they've tuned it a bit for off-road and it works reasonably well there.
21:58
Again, this is not something that you're going to get deep into doing Wrangler level or rock
22:04
crawling or something like that.
22:07
I would describe it as maybe trail capable, so that would be okay.
22:12
It also has a traction management system.
22:14
It has snow, sand, and mud modes, so that stuff is good.
22:18
I don't typically use those modes a lot, maybe because I'm mostly driving on the street,
22:23
but are you a mode selector kind of guy or do you just kind of let it go?
22:28
I think that they change the throttle feel and the behavior of the vehicle enough that I'm more
22:32
comfortable leaving it in normal and using my senses to navigate and trying to rely on a computer.
22:38
Yeah, I'd rather drive the vehicle myself as opposed to have the vehicle help me out a
22:42
bunch and maybe not help me so much.
22:45
As I say, this vector's torque, so that's good in terms of off-road and on-road handling.
22:50
The ride and handling is pretty good.
22:52
This has very good ride quality.
22:54
I think there's a nice combination, despite the fact that it has all-terrain tires.
22:57
They're not noisy and ride is generally good.
23:01
Of course, a lot of times off-road tune suspensions offer pretty good comfortable ride quality on the road,
23:10
Steering is light in the Honda tradition.
23:14
Maybe too light for some people's take, but certainly capable there.
23:19
Inside the cabin, it sets itself apart style-wise.
23:25
It has leather trim seats, heated front seats, heated leather-wrapped steering wheel,
23:30
10-way power adjustable driver's seat with two-way lumbar support, so this is up-level.
23:35
It has tri-zone automatic climate control.
23:38
The infotainment system works fine, but it's one of those when my wife says fine,
23:42
I don't think she means.
23:44
Only an 8-inch touchscreen, so I was kind of surprised by that in an era when we're seeing much larger
23:51
Overall, I think this is a good vehicle.
23:53
It's not really hugely expensive, a little under $50,000, $47,500, including destination for the
24:00
Trail Sport Elite, which is the top level.
24:03
What's your quick take on that?
24:04
I think the pricing is decent.
24:06
It puts it in competition where it needs to be, and you do get a lot for your money.
24:10
I think it's a good deal to take a look at.
24:13
I think they've kind of nailed the outside exterior styling.
24:16
When we come back, we will be speaking with Sam Fiorani, who is the Vice President of Global
24:23
Vehicle Forecasting and Auto Forecast Solutions, so stay with us for that, and we'll be right back.
24:31
Hi, I'm Jack Arnie-Red, and I'd like to tell you about my newest crime novel,
24:39
Only One Thing Stays the Same.
24:41
In a style reminiscent of James M. Kane and Jim Thompson, two of my writing idols,
24:46
the book chronicles a blue-collar worker's up-and-down love affairs with two modern Southern
24:51
California women who continue to surprise, shock, and ultimately confound him.
24:57
As the story unfolds, an unemployed aeronautics worker named Bill McCurdy becomes disillusioned
25:01
with his wife and slips into an illicit affair with a teenager from down the street.
25:06
Before long, he begins to think of doing the unthinkable,
25:09
but despite his desperate attempts to make things work, almost nothing goes as planned.
25:14
His misguided quest for simple love doesn't turn out to be simple at all,
25:19
and before the roller coaster ride stops, he learns quite personally and very
25:22
finely that Only One Thing Stays the Same.
25:27
Only One Thing Stays the Same is available in Kindle e-book and paperback form,
25:32
exclusively at Amazon.com.
25:35
I'd appreciate it if you'd look for it today.
25:42
Welcome back, everybody, to America on the Road Check.
25:45
You're right back with me.
25:45
We have a terrific guest.
25:47
I consider him a friend, even though I don't think we've ever met face-to-face, Sam Fiorani.
25:52
Thanks for being with us.
25:53
You are vice president, as you well know, of global vehicle forecasting at Auto Forecast
25:58
Thanks for being with us.
25:59
Always glad to be here.
26:01
You know, this is kind of a monumental time, or certainly a landmark time,
26:05
in the auto industry, because we're coming to the end of electric vehicle tax credits that
26:12
have been in effect well over a decade, I think probably something like 15 or 16 years,
26:18
something on that order, maybe longer.
26:20
And I'm kind of curious as to your take on the effect of this.
26:24
So let's talk about that a little bit.
26:26
Yeah, these tax credits, which started way back in the Obama administration,
26:32
have propped up this transition to EVs.
26:36
Everybody thinks it's encouraging people to buy them, but it is encouraging people to buy them,
26:41
but also encouraging the manufacturers to supply these vehicles as the industry transitions.
26:49
With or without the tax credit, the global industry was transitioning to EVs,
26:53
and this just helped the American industry move it along.
26:58
The $7,500 credit always went to the manufacturer.
27:03
Even though it looks like it comes to the consumer, it always went to the manufacturer.
27:07
It allowed the manufacturers to increase their prices by $7,500.
27:11
So the end price is always going to be what the consumer will pay.
27:16
And if the price is $7,000 more after the tax credits,
27:20
well, that means fewer consumers are going to step up to buy these vehicles.
27:23
It just increased the volume.
27:25
It allowed the manufacturers to produce more,
27:28
and it allowed them to raise the prices so that they could pay off this transition.
27:34
And really, it, along with the other regulations, the fuel economy regulations,
27:40
really pushed electric vehicles maybe beyond what they would have been in terms of market share,
27:48
even in terms of being in existence in some cases,
27:52
beyond what they would have been without those, and now they're essentially going away.
27:58
Where are we going to stand with this?
27:59
I think we've seen EV market share, what, something like 8% or 9% these days.
28:06
Where's it going to go, say, in October, November, December?
28:10
Yeah, the market share currently is around 8%, and it has been there for about two years.
28:14
But the market itself all depends on what the manufacturers want to do.
28:19
If the manufacturers want to maintain this volume of EV production,
28:24
then we're going to see rebates, leasing incentives, anything to keep the price down
28:30
into the current price after the tax credits.
28:35
If the manufacturers don't see a need to keep those volumes up and want to decrease their
28:42
production and decrease their risk on EVs, you'll see the prices going higher.
28:49
Unlikely, they'll go to the full $7,500, before the $7,500 discount.
28:55
But we're going to see it at some level because these manufacturers have already paid for plants.
29:00
They've already paid for battery facilities.
29:02
They've already paid for most of this transition.
29:05
And so backing off on that will just risk all this investment they've already made
29:09
and turn off a lot of consumers.
29:12
The consumers are there for EVs.
29:13
It's just how many are willing to pay $7,000 more after October rolls around.
29:20
Right. What do you think your prediction is for EVs, though, for market share?
29:26
I've heard others suggest, in fact, I talked to my friends at JD Power recently,
29:31
one of them suggested that maybe 4% of market is more like what EVs would command
29:38
without the tax credits.
29:40
What are your thoughts on that, Sam?
29:42
Like I said, the tax credits were just an incentive for manufacturers to make more vehicles.
29:47
Without the tax incentives, the manufacturers would have lost more money.
29:52
I can't imagine that it would only be down at 4%, but it's somewhere between those two,
29:57
between 4% and 8% or 9%.
30:00
Going forward, we're going to still see increases in this.
30:02
We may see a drop in the next six months or nine months,
30:07
but we're going to see this market share pick up again once manufacturers have decided
30:11
how many vehicles to put out there, how many vehicles they want to build,
30:15
and how enthusiastic they are to transition out of internal combustion engines eventually.
30:21
It's a good idea to be on the cutting edge of that rather than wait for Chinese to meet you
30:28
in every other market outside of the United States and just have the leg up on them.
30:33
Yeah, well, I suppose that is a point of view.
30:36
It strikes me though that a company like Toyota is taking the opposite point of view.
30:41
Not at the forefront of EVs.
30:44
They've had some EVs.
30:46
They have some EVs in the US market,
30:47
but they certainly have not put their eggs in the EV basket to the way that, for example,
30:52
General Motors has, Ford Motor Company to some extent, even Kia and Hyundai.
30:58
Hey, talk about that a little bit.
30:59
Where do you think the various manufacturers stand?
31:02
Because I think there's big differences in stance on this.
31:06
It's not like a unilateral movement to EVs from all the manufacturers.
31:12
The impetus for any manufacturer was for emissions, to capture the emissions regulations ahead of
31:20
time and get their vehicles out there.
31:22
Toyota has had 25 years of building hybrids.
31:27
Their fuel economy was already better than most manufacturers to start with.
31:31
And we were a company like Stellantis or Ford or General Motors that relies on a large portion
31:36
of V8 engines to make your money for your market share.
31:42
You're going to need those EVs to offset that.
31:44
And Toyota has a lot of four cylinders, a lot of economical six cylinders,
31:49
and a lot of hybrids already in the market.
31:52
So their risk was already lower, and they had less of a need to transition to EVs immediately.
31:59
But longer term, they're going to need to make that move.
32:02
Their idea was that they were going to jump right from hybrids to fuel cells.
32:06
And we're just not seeing the infrastructure for hydrogen.
32:10
We're not seeing the greenness of hydrogen.
32:14
And we're not seeing the affordability of the gas.
32:17
So until those things happen, fuel cells are still going to be in the future.
32:22
We're looking at 2030, 2040, somewhere way out before somebody figures out how to do this.
32:28
On that note though, Sam, I mean, we're really not seeing the economics for electric vehicles
32:34
still. I mean, we're seeing them premium priced.
32:38
They're not as useful. They're not as versatile as a gasoline powered vehicle,
32:43
or even diesels for that matter.
32:44
It's kind of interesting that you have something that has less utility, but costs a lot more.
32:51
I don't know that the mass market is going to adopt that in any kind of numbers,
32:56
even going forward. I mean, what's your take on that?
32:59
On the contrary, I think EVs fit 95 to 99% of every owner's needs.
33:07
If you're going to drive cross country, EVs are going to be impractical.
33:12
But most drivers don't drive more than 100 or on the upper end, 200 miles in a day.
33:19
And in those cases, an EV can transition to that person.
33:25
As long as you have a plug at home, and you're driving less than say 200 miles in a day,
33:32
it's very practical. It's impractical for apartment dwellers who are very unlikely to
33:37
have a charging system at home. Combos probably are not going to have the charging system.
33:42
But we're going to see these things move into the mainstream going forward.
33:47
You're going to see apartment buildings with plugs. You're going to see condos with plugs.
33:50
It makes more sense. It doesn't make sense if you're charging on the road.
33:54
And that's the problem with driving longer distances.
33:58
Well, and as you well know, I mean, people buy vehicles not only for what they're doing every
34:04
day, because if they were buying vehicles for what they do every day, everybody would drive
34:08
a Honda Civic or a Toyota Corolla, right? I mean, they drive alone. Even that's maybe too much
34:14
car for them because they have five seats and they're only going to use one seat.
34:19
But you know well that people buy vehicles way more for way more than what they actually need.
34:26
That's why we see everybody driving SUVs, for example. I just don't see that changing and I
34:32
don't see people paying a premium for stuff that just doesn't work well for that one instance or
34:39
two instances a year when you want to go to grandma's house that's 500 miles away and you just can't
34:45
do it in your own personal car. I mean, that's a turn off to a lot of people, I think.
34:50
Yeah, you're right. A lot of people buy pickup trucks. Most people buy SUVs anymore.
34:57
While SUVs and crossovers can be made as a practical EV, if you're using a pickup truck,
35:03
the way it's designed to be used, an EV is not practical at the moment.
35:08
They're trying to find ways to do that. Scientist is working on extended range
35:13
electrics, which makes a lot of sense in this case because you get the torque,
35:17
you don't have the emissions of diesel, and you get the emissions-free driving occasionally
35:22
when you're not using the engine. That is a nice mix of the two, but for most people who decide
35:29
they're going to drive their F-150 to the office and back every day, it's kind of a problem with
35:37
transitioning them to EVs. They want it for more than the practicality of driving, they want it for
35:43
the command of the road, they want it for the sound that the Heming engine makes,
35:47
they want it for all these other reasons that are less practical and more what your personal
35:53
trait tastes like. Yeah, I mean people buy vehicles for emotional reasons, much more so than
35:57
utilitarian reasons. That's why we have so many on the market. If we didn't have those tastes,
36:03
we'd have one vehicle out there. Right. Let's talk about the new tax credits or the new tax policy
36:09
that's coming into effect that essentially in some ways subsidizes American-made, U.S.-made
36:17
production. Talk about your thoughts about what effect that's going to have going forward.
36:22
The tariffs now to pull production into the U.S. is a great idea, but it's heavy-handed and it
36:32
doesn't take into consideration that the automotive industry currently is global.
36:38
If you pull it into one country or another, then you remove all the benefits that you get from
36:45
sourcing components to whether best-made or least-cost and getting the volume up to a certain
36:54
point to make money on these vehicles entails pulling the parts in from Canada, from Mexico,
36:59
from South Korea, from Japan, from all over the world. If you don't do that, then not only do you
37:04
raise the price of the vehicles, but you limit the selection. You're not going to see these
37:09
niche vehicles that come in from Europe or Asia, but you're going to eliminate all the things that
37:17
need a certain volume for economies of scale. There's only so many Lexus LSs that are going
37:24
to be sold in the U.S. and it's a very low number. We get them because they build more of them in
37:28
Japan and sell them to other countries. We're going to see things like that disappear.
37:33
It strikes me that the tariff policy has been more bluff than actual incorporation into what's
37:40
actually happening, but there has been tax policy too. Now, going forward, consumers will get some
37:48
tax break based on the interest they're paying if they're buying a U.S.-made vehicle. What
37:54
effect do you think that's going to have? It wasn't tailored to American vehicle buyers,
38:00
but we had this tax credit before and during the Reagan administration, I believe it was,
38:07
they removed it. There was a reason that they saw the need to not have these credits in your
38:14
taxes. This one is to encourage local sales, but it's not going to help a lot of people because
38:23
most everyday buyers don't itemize. They don't use those credits anyway, so they use one
38:30
tax credit and it's not going to affect them that much in the first place.
38:34
Interesting, yeah. I'm not a big fan of tax credits of any sort. I'd like to see the market
38:40
operate and work for us and we vote with our dollars and I think that works pretty well.
38:46
What are your thoughts on that? Absolutely. Tax credits and tariffs are messing with the
38:53
natural order of free markets. As an economics major, I'm not a fan of that kind of thing,
39:01
but there are certain places where things either need encouraged or protected and
39:06
the US market is not necessarily one of those ones that needs protected.
39:10
Well, let's leave it at that because we're out of time and it's always great to talk
39:14
to you, Sam. I always like to exchange our opinions and we're not always in 100% sync,
39:19
but certainly I enjoy talking with you. It's always a great discussion.
39:24
And I look forward to doing it again. So thanks very much for being with us.
39:27
Absolutely. Thanks so much. And we'll talk to you again soon. Stay with us,
39:31
everybody. We'll be right back right here on America on the Road.
39:37
Welcome back to America on the Road with co-host Chris. He was exactly red with you and it's
39:42
listener question time. We love to get your listener questions, your questions and comments.
39:47
Send them to editoratdrivingtoday.com. That's editoratdrivingtoday.com.
39:51
Here's a question for you, Chris. What's your favorite sleeper car that no one talks about?
39:57
Do you think now is the time to buy a car like that? This is from Carson in Erie, Pennsylvania.
40:02
What's your favorite sleeper car? Wow, that's a good question. You know,
40:06
I think looking back at it, I think it's the mid 2000s Lexus GS with V8 engine.
40:14
I think it was a GS450 that you could get at the time. That engine is fantastic.
40:20
Is it a good time to buy one? That specific car probably not. I think all the ones I've seen are
40:25
high mileage. Look, I think used car values are going to be up in the air for a little while,
40:29
given that EVs are coming off the tax credits and things are going to be in flux for a little bit.
40:34
I wouldn't expect prices to drop significantly, but I also don't have a crystal ball. So I think
40:39
if you really want it, now is probably as good a time as any to buy it. But again, your financial
40:44
situation matters more than my opinion. Yeah. Well, my go to is the answer is always Miata,
40:50
right? I mean, when you're looking at Miata is one of those timeless cars that you can get.
40:56
There's so many of them out there and so many different vintages and different types these
41:00
days. But what a wonderful kind of Saturday morning car that is. And if you can get one
41:06
very inexpensively, I think that's always something you can step up to.
41:11
That essentially wraps up our show for this week. My new crime novel, only one thing stays the same,
41:16
is now available in both e-book and paperback form at Amazon. We have links in the show notes
41:21
to that book. If you like our show, please pass it on. Listen on this radio station each week and
41:27
let your friends know where you hear America on the Road. Of course, we love terrestrial radio.
41:31
And America on the Road is available as a podcast too, right, Chris? That's right. A quick Google
41:36
search for the America on the Road podcast will bring us to you on all the major platforms,
41:39
Apple, Spotify, all the others. Like us, download us, leave us a review. All of those things help
41:44
us out and you can take us with you wherever you go. We have YouTube and Rumble channels. Check
41:49
those out. Please subscribe. We have a bunch of shorts these days on our YouTube channel,
41:55
YouTube Shorts. So check those out. We're producing more of those lately and they seem to be resonating
42:01
out there. So check that out. Thanks to Mercury Insurance for sponsoring the show and our sports
42:06
byline network stations for carrying it. Most of all, thanks to you for listening. We know you
42:10
have a lot of choices out there. So we're honored by the fact you're listening to America on the
42:14
Road. And please join us again next time for another edition of America on the Road.
42:28
Hi, I'm Jack Arneerad and I'd like to tell you about my newest crime novel,
42:33
Only One Thing Stays the Same. In a style reminiscent of James M. Cain and Jim Thompson,
42:38
two of my writing idols, the book chronicles a blue collar workers up and down love affairs with
42:44
two modern Southern California women who continue to surprise, shock, and ultimately confound him.
42:50
As the story unfolds, an unemployed aeronautics worker named Bill McCurdy becomes disillusioned
42:55
with his wife and slips into an illicit affair with a teenager from down the street.
43:00
Before long, he begins to think of doing the unthinkable. But despite his desperate attempts
43:05
to make things work, almost nothing goes as planned. His misguided quest for simple love
43:10
doesn't turn out to be simple at all. And before the roller coaster ride stops,
43:15
he learns quite personally and very finely that Only One Thing Stays the Same.
43:21
Only One Thing Stays the Same is available in Kindle ebook and paperback form exclusively at
43:27
Amazon.com. I'd appreciate it if you'd look for it today.
