$301K Porsche Fail: Project Cars Are Broken

I put those on right in the beginning.

They didn't come with a car.

They went on the car.

But the Pasha interior, when I look for cars that had Pasha,

it was blown out tired, or they replaced it,

and they did a poor job with the wrong aftermarket Pasha,

which looks too bright.

Like the white looks really bright.

Something looks off about it.

And also, as I've talked to our pollster guy,

doing Pasha interior on 928 seats is gotta be the,

and Dave, I was gonna ask you about this.

He says they're probably one of the most difficult seats

because they have all these little pillows

that you have to do.

I mean, I got YouTube videos up on those seats.

Joe, if you're listening and you wanna go look

and see how those seats get done,

just do some search on YouTube for Sunderworks on a Pulsefree.

And they are extremely difficult,

especially for your year, the earlier year cars,

the way they constructed those pillows

is very different than they did on the later seats.

And because of that damn pattern,

you waste so much material that you gotta buy

a lot of extra material to get the pattern to align,

there you go, to get the pattern to align correctly

on the seat.

So there's a whole bunch of throw-off on those seats.

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So Paul, I really, I was really happy

that you felt comfortable sharing with me

that you've been part of a 12-step program

now for quite a while.

I have to say, knowing you, it doesn't surprise me.

And I think it's maybe a good idea

that we let Dave know about.

So can you let everyone know about the 12-step program

that you actually started and that you're part of

that's been so instrumental in your life?

And I bummed, I actually don't remember all the 12 steps,

but someone did send them to me,

which is where they say the first part of a problem

is admitting you have the problem.

I think that's the first step.

That's the first step.

So, yes, actually, I don't know how much

I have a problem, but if you hang around these guys,

I think what happens is if you don't have the problem,

you get the problem and the problem

is collecting project cars.

I think, as when I mentioned the subject,

I think you and Dave have done more project cars

than I have.

I have done two and I swear I'll never do it again.

But so this is a group and you can find them

on Instagram, my friend Michael Gideon runs it.

It's called Project Cars Anonymous.

And it just says in the tagline on Instagram,

support group for car addicts.

So they do these meetings and it's funny

because it is a bit tongue-in-cheek.

It's a little bit of a parody of an AA meeting, coffee.

People drive their project cars there.

We had about 50 people there and it was in the evening

from five o'clock.

Bro, that looks totally depressing.

I'm not gonna lie, people,

if you're on audio only, it's a really cool setting

because it's a Paul's shop.

A lot of cool cars sitting around,

but the people genuinely look a little to trouble.

So basically to my left there, that's Michael Gideon.

He's the guy who's sort of running it.

Sort of his co-host is IMSA champion,

race car driver, extraordinary Tommy Kendall,

if you know who he is.

And also a race announcer.

And at first it starts off sort of tongue-in-cheek.

Here's the 12 steps.

Don't let friends buy projects.

They should it and how to avoid projects.

And then they start getting into it

and they said, okay, how many people have two projects?

Let's go, projects.

The record was, and it might even been Tommy Kendall,

he has 15 projects, only four of them actually running.

And at one point it was, they were in four different states,

like not states of repair, but geographical states.

And now he's down to two states.

Why would you store them in California otherwise, right?

I mean, my God, you wouldn't have a place

to put all that stuff.

I should have put a picture of it.

Tommy Kendall from a car guy standpoint,

he got famous for that Buick chicken car

with the big chicken on the roof of it.

Do you remember that car?

But didn't he race Trans Am too, Paul?

I'm pretty sure this guy-

Race Trans Am?

Massively successful driver.

Yeah, massively successful driver.

So they all met and the funniest part is

you realize it takes a turn from satire to serious

because I'm sitting over in the corner,

this is my vantage point,

and I'm sitting right there

next to my race car to the left, the Blue Hood,

it's my BMW M-Coupe, has not started.

So that was a new car I bought,

I drove it daily, turned it into a race car,

stopped racing it.

So I actually drove it into project status,

has not moved since 17, so they asked me about it.

I'm like, no, I don't have any projects

and they're like, what is that?

And I'm like, oh, shit, I do.

So I started talking about it.

Don't forget, this is a support group

to keep people from acquiring projects

they probably shouldn't.

So I said, I haven't started since 17,

I'm that guy, I got crap on it,

I should probably get rid of it.

Like eight guys, talk about addicts,

they go, what do you want for it?

It was like a Facebook marketplace ad in real time, live.

And I'm like, oh, and then I start going to this denial,

like, do I really want to sell it?

It's my longest non-blood related relationship.

I've owned that car longer than anyone

I don't share blood with, like, that's it.

And I said, so then I go, I don't know, 15,000.

I mean, the number of erections

that were in that room, it got so excited.

And one guy was just hounding me afterwards.

I'm like, I don't know, I will send you information.

So, and then I was like, wait a minute,

we're having this support meeting

in my dealership car place.

Isn't this like having an AA meeting at a bar?

Like, is it this?

Sure, it feels that way.

Now, we obviously, it seems like

it's probably a little tongue in cheek, right?

I mean, what's the point of the conversations?

It's typically obviously helping people move forward

on these projects at the end.

Yeah, I think it is to help people move forward

and look at projects that maybe they shouldn't acquire.

And really the goal is one project at a time.

Don't buy another project because you're convincing yourself

you need that project to finish the first project

when they have nothing to do with each other.

Well, you should do like what they do for Christmas cookies

where they have like Christmas cookie swap, you know,

where everybody shows up and they swap their,

you can swap projects.

Oh, by the way, this is Full Throttle Talk,

your favorite weekly automotive podcast.

And this week we're talking, our first segment

is going to talk about what did you do in cars this week?

Segment two is Automotive News.

Segment three, just to remind you guys,

we do have an agenda.

Most memorable project, which Paul is foreshadowing now.

What would you do different pitfalls

for listeners to watch out for?

And Paul, thank you for that topic idea.

Very much appreciated.

Segment four, this or that?

Pick just one project from an auction site

and we'll decide who picked the best project

out of all of our picks.

Segment five, bonus discussion of the 1973 911 RS Touring,

no sale, right?

Didn't sell, on bring a trailer that went wrong,

what went wrong at auction?

And we had a lot of fun discussing that one off air.

So I think that'll be a great one.

And then assuming we have time,

we do have some questions and some random things,

comments and whatnot that we'll be going through.

So gentlemen, let's start out.

What did you do in cars this week, David?

Uh, a little slow week, actually.

We did have our monthly Targabar event,

sort of what you see behind me if you're looking here,

which is out under the lights here at Sunderworks.

And we do this once a month

on the second Thursday of the month.

And it's a typical gathering, porches only,

a lot of folks come in, you know,

we put out some food and had some drinks and so on.

And it was a, it was a fun event.

And we had a decent turnout for a, you know,

a Thursday in January,

the weather turned out to be great.

So that was fantastic.

And the other thing,

because we're going to stay with the project theme here

is that we have, we're down the path now.

We're starting to cut and weld on John H's 86 back date,

the budget back date project.

So we've got some parts in already.

There's a, there's a dupe fence

or there's a longhood fender that we've got in here.

Well, let's say really quick on that, Dave,

on that fender, this is a debate

going when I was doing a project,

do you buy a new fender

or do you buy like a really good unmasked up fender?

What's your take on that?

We buy, we can do, we do one of three things.

This depends on what we've got and where we can find it.

This happens to be brand new fender.

Those are both, I'm pretty sure from dance,

both sides of the fenders will be from dance,

the hoods from dance.

It's all brand new.

And some of, sometimes, you know, so far so good.

We don't have too much trouble with that.

I mean, plus we've got guys

that can work around all that stuff.

So we really don't have major issues

with those, the fitment stuff.

I'll bitch about it every now and then, but not terrible.

You know, the bigger issue

is making sure you're buying all the right stuff.

So you've got that option,

be fine, find a decent user one,

but now you're looking at typically rust repairs.

And a lot of times those will be more expensive

to find a really good use fender, longhood fender.

So again, since this is the budget bill,

we gotta go down the right path.

And then three is to take the existing fender,

the existing short, or the existing impact bumper fender

and graft that whole headlight,

or excuse me, tail light, front lights, blinkers.

Modify it.

Yeah.

Well, weld that all back on

because that's really just cut off

from the longhood cars to the impact bumper cars.

So those are your choices.

But that's kind of been my week.

It's been busy and this is gonna be a great episode

because we're talking a lot of restoration stuff.

Why wouldn't you just do the dance fender, honestly?

I don't understand.

Which is what we did.

Yeah, I would do that too.

I mean, it's sometimes depending

on where you're getting this stuff,

some stuff is better fit than others.

And these cars shift and change and flex and so on.

So it's really just making sure

you've got all the lines lined up correctly.

Your shut lines are good.

And so we spend a lot of time on all that.

So I think these guys do a pretty good job.

And we also buy some stuff

from a restoration design up in Canada as well.

And they do good jobs.

I was gonna wonder about those,

if you ever preferred,

we'll get to it later in my project,

but defender conversation was a really big dilemma

and something that I get,

I don't know if I'll ever go down that path in a project.

That to me is my Achilles heel.

It's what?

Which part?

Going down that path?

What to do with fenders?

If you have to replace fenders front or rear,

it gets really tricky,

because that's where the front,

I was telling someone the other day,

and I don't know if I have a good front-end shot,

but my first thing,

when someone sends me an ad of a bring a trailer ad

or something,

and they're like, hey, should I buy this car?

The first thing I look at is right here,

where the horn grill,

the hood,

the bumper,

and the fender all meet.

That is-

Actually on a back date, yeah.

On back date, a restoration,

and that's where it gets really tricky.

And I don't know if you've seen it before,

when I see the horn grills doing this,

you know that there is something not right

and to get that right,

could be redoing a lot of the car.

So usually, especially if it's a collector grade car,

that to me is the thing.

And I see the fog grills, the horn grills doing that.

For the most part,

I'm like, I guarantee you I'll find 10 other things

that are just not right about that car.

But really, it's not Defender's fault necessarily.

It's the old ass car's fault

and who knows what other bodywork

had been done over the years fault.

So, I mean, Defender's probably right as ranch,

probably the rest of the structure

that maybe isn't as it should be.

Well, those grills as well,

there's so many different sizes.

And depending on who's repopping that grill,

there's a lot of variants.

And I kind of buy a ton of grills.

You just said something I didn't know.

There's different sized long hood grills.

Yeah, yeah, depending on.

Short-wheel base and long-wheel base have different grills.

I don't know if they're different between the long-wheel base.

There's one year in particular too.

I can't remember if it's 68, 67, something in there

where there's actually, there's four-hole grills

and there's two-hole grills.

Yeah, in short heads.

The really early 9-11s.

I think 64, 65, maybe into 66.

Right.

Maybe.

But those move around a lot.

And you don't know what you're buying sometimes

when you buy them,

because they're not giving you dimensions and stuff.

So you end up buying a bunch of this stuff

and it doesn't fit.

We've had to actually graft to the side of the grills.

Like epoxy to graft to make the grills slightly larger.

This has been on some resto mods

and stuff that we've done

where you're taking a 964 and putting all that together.

And for whatever reason, there's always a space

that's right there at the, between the hood and that grill.

And so we, you know, I'll show you some pictures

offline or whatever, but yeah, that's a funky place.

And that's a great spot for you, Paul.

I mean, what you're suggesting is dead on

because that's a really good testament

as to whether or not the work was done well

or they got the right parts and so on.

Well, I'm genuinely jealous,

even though I don't win another project car

of John's project because the projects, if you, you know

have somebody that's going to actually manage

that thing for you are a lot of fun

because then you just get to do the fun stuff, you know,

you get to write the checks.

You're well, I mean, that's not the fun stuff necessarily

but like when I did my project, we'll talk about it in a bit.

I didn't do any of the actual,

I did very little the actual work

but finding the actual hard to find parts sucked.

I mean, that was the real work part.

It was fun meeting all the weirdos though, you know

that are hidden all over.

Including me.

I mean.

Yeah, you're the least of all the weirdos, bro.

Some of the people I had to meet

in the restoration of that car were just extraordinary.

You know, the funny thing is Julie

and I still joke about those experiences

because she won on every one of those, you know

hunting expeditions with me.

So, so you're back to what did you do in cars this week?

Did you, Paul, you're next.

Oh, I was just, I was going to say, you know

it was January, it's January winter,

65 to 70 degrees out.

I drove my BMW 1600 all weekend

part of my physical therapy.

It was perfect weather.

Pull up to Malibu market.

This just, just grabbed coffee

and a breakfast sandwich.

You know, 275 GTB

and then this 250 short wheel base competition.

Just parked there.

I didn't see the guys till they left.

They just grabbed a cup of coffee

and I mean, it just was amazing.

And you sit there and as much as, you know

people hate California.

If you're a car guy, oh my God, are we spoiled?

Okay, I can almost guarantee you

that's a GTO engineering car.

The black one. You think so?

That you should have a plate.

I don't know enough about it.

Do you want, I mean, by the way,

oh, so I zoomed in on that for you, Dave.

Check out the interior of that 275.

It's not actually, it's like corduroy

but like a checkered corduroy.

Yeah, yeah.

It's so crazy.

And here I'll go back.

It's gonna, yeah, there's, I don't know.

I don't know how to tell.

If you're listening, you can't really tell.

I'm only guessing because of the registration.

That's all, that's my only tell.

But if you're watching, I'm sorry,

if you're listening and not watching,

we're looking at a very pretty,

it looks like some sort of dark, dark, dark blue

California 250 short wheel base, which I don't know.

Arguably is the most beautiful Ferrari.

What do you guys think?

It's pretty damn close.

Yeah, definitely not, right?

But boy, man, I want that fabric.

I don't know what I want it in, but I want.

The project you're never gonna do again.

Oh, by the way, just going back to the project guys,

they said, okay, how many guys in the room

have parts for the car they haven't even bought yet?

And I would say it was 80% of the room

had bought cars for a specific car project

that they hadn't even acquired the project.

And I thought, oh my God, these guys are sick.

It's really, it's just-

How long have you had that posh of fabric,

Paul, that you're putting in the act 28?

Yeah, I should have put a picture of it.

I just got it yesterday.

I got it from Sierra Madre.

It is the factory posh.

As you know, Dave, really good.

I mean, I think that stuff was $300 a yard, 250 yard.

I'm gonna buy, what should I call it?

I'm gonna buy two hides in dark brown

and I'm finally doing my 920.

Are you gonna change the interior color on it?

Kind of.

I'm not doing the carpet.

I'm gonna do the whole seats and-

Oh, that's a project car.

That's restoration.

That's restoration, Paul.

That's another project car.

We're gonna call it a refurbishment.

But it's fine right now.

It's just tired.

My dream was to always have a 928 with posh and phone vows.

Phone vows were pretty easy.

I put those on right in the beginning.

They didn't come with a car.

They went on the car.

But the posh interior,

when I look for cars that had posh,

it was blown out tired or they replaced it

and they did a poor job with the wrong aftermarket posh,

which looks too bright.

Like the white looks really bright.

Something looks off about it.

And also as I've talked to our upholstery guy,

doing posh interior is on 928 seats is gotta be the,

and Dave, I was gonna ask you about this.

He says they're probably one of the most difficult seats

because they have all these little pillows

that you have for your job.

I got YouTube videos up on those seats.

So if you're listening and you wanna go look

and see how those seats get done,

just do some search on YouTube for Sunderworks on a Pulsefree.

And they are extremely difficult,

especially for your year, the earlier year cars,

the way they constructed those pillows

is very different than they did on the later seats.

And because of that damn pattern,

you waste so much material

that you gotta buy a lot of extra material

to get the pattern to align,

there you go, to get the pattern to align correctly on the seat.

So there's a whole bunch of throw off on those seats.

So you're gonna get, we'll talk some hide stuff

after offline because I wanna make sure

you get the right stuff for the seats.

But yeah, the upholstery guy,

so we were laying it out.

And just like Dave was saying,

trying to figure out, even though it's wider,

you have to get these weird psychedelic patterns

lined up with each seat.

So you probably waste a third.

And by the way, here's just a quick video of the car.

It's just a six second video,

but there's the hide in the background.

See that dark brown, it's a chocolate.

So I don't know if you can see it.

You're gonna leave the console and the,

is that our ground?

Yeah, no, the car's already mostly black.

It has black accents, light tan.

The bolsters are gonna be dark brown,

the inserts obviously posh.

Then you gotta do the panel in the door as well,

that door panel.

Yeah, which is a tiny little panel,

but then at the bottom of the door,

it's the carpet, which I hate

because it's light and gets dirty.

We're probably just gonna do black leather there

because the door is already mostly black

except for the insert.

So yeah, that's it.

Yeah, I guess I'm a project guy.

Yeah, exactly.

So in case you guys weren't paying attention

at the start before I hit record,

well, actually before we officially started the show,

Paul was saying how he doesn't do project cars

and he sat in kind of a snobby tone

and now we're realizing he's the biggest project car.

He's the one that's actually needing

to help the most in the intervention.

Yeah, hi.

He told me at one point that the guy who he uses

has only got a few sets of seats left in him.

So he's very judicious on who he,

and he's given him the toughest seats ever, Paul.

You're gonna take years off this guy's life to do this.

I know.

He's such a sweet.

You've seen him, Tim.

He's in our complex two doors down

and I do not refer anyone to him.

He's like, he's busy.

Like he squeezes me in.

He's my guy and I told him,

want to take as long as you need.

Isn't that the ultimate problem

with referring anybody to anybody

that they get really super busy?

And the next thing you know

you're not getting anything done of your own.

That's true of life.

Oh yeah.

I will no longer refer my vendors anymore

because like my detailer who's on site,

he blew up and now like I went to get a car done

and he's like, you're two weeks out.

And I'm like, you're here on my property.

What the heck?

Well, what did I do?

Cut the line, baby.

Cut the line.

What did I do in cars this week?

My cart racing stuff finally started arriving.

I've got this

and then I don't know if you guys knew this

but turns out AR and Senna was actually sponsored by,

hold on, full throttle talk.

Excellent.

Wow.

So I had to have that ahead of our time.

I had that exactly.

I had to have that helmet made somewhere

and I think England because you know,

that's a large Senna helmet by Snell and the whole thing

but those are super hard to find.

I was actually kind of surprised.

But in any event, I'm a huge Senna fan.

I have been since I watched him race in the early 90s.

Paul, if you had to choose one Formula One driver

I know that Formula One's not your main focus

but who would it be?

Who do you like?

I do like, I did follow it for a long time

and no, Rubens Barrichello.

He's my guy.

I love Rubens.

Oh, really?

Brazilian, another Brazilian.

So, you know what I love about Rubens

was it just his attitude.

I mean, talk about a class act attitude.

Imagine you're a world class driver

and your whole career is playing second fiddle

to arguably one of the best F1 drivers ever,

Michael Schumacher.

And just to be cool with it

and just to be so excited to be there and part of it

and every time you saw him in an interview

you never saw like the normal pre-Madonna shit.

You just saw someone who was so grateful for being there

and so happy and excited

and just seeing his passion and love

for being part of the scene.

I just admired that.

And he was, if he wasn't Michael Schumacher's

co-driver or number two,

he would have been a world champion for sure.

Yeah, definitely.

If you had to choose a modern equivalent

or a modern, I hate saying favorite driver

because we're not talking NASCAR here,

but one that you might follow

or give two hoots about, who would it be?

Well, the newest driver is Jensen Button tonight

because I've met him and I know him,

but God, I,

the, oh no, his name just escaped me.

The driver.

No, it's tough.

You know, it's, I like to,

you know, it's, I do like Max Verstappen

for Verstappen for his raw talent.

He is just, he was immature, he's maturing,

but I think he's just got this,

I think he's, he could arguably be the best F1 driver

ever, just from fricking talent,

but I think he's got this stigma

because what did he start F1 at 17?

Or 18, like some crazy young,

and imagine being a 17 year old

thrown into that fricking circus.

You know, the most watched sport in the world.

It just, and I think he had no chance

at becoming a normal human.

And I kind of wonder if he,

okay, is Alonzo still racing?

I love Alonzo.

Yeah, yeah.

He's really 40s.

Yeah.

He just doesn't give two shits.

No, I know, but the, you know,

the new season's about to start obviously in March

and it is really interesting.

I'll tell you guys a funny story.

So, to start, forgive me for the start out of my story,

there's no other way to tell it.

So when we were in Monaco,

there, forgive me for that part.

And we were standing in front of the palace.

Oh, you got to forgive me for that one too.

So there's all these gorgeous Paganis

and fancy-ass cars that are just parked everywhere,

lines and lines of them.

If you ever seen video or been to Monaco,

it's spectacular if you like that sort of opulence

and very showy wealth.

A lot of Ukrainians, just for the record,

a lot of Ukrainians there spending money

when we were there last.

So you go down this whole row

and there's this tiny little Fiat Jolly

that's sitting there.

Okay, then all this, you know,

Julie and I were walking around

and all of a sudden this big mob of people

started going to the front of the casino.

And there's famous people walking out

on a fairly regular basis.

But then it was Lando Norris.

And so guess what car,

I kind of tipped and I had it,

of all those cars,

guess which one Lando got in and drove off in?

That little tiny Fiat Jolly.

And so he's driving this tiny little Fiat Jolly

and he's a small dude.

And you know, I watched him, you know,

he had 100% confidence.

He didn't hardly make eye contact.

So maybe not 100%, but 90% confidence

did not care that he was driving the most, you know,

I don't know, DeMure car there.

I thought that was really cool.

It was fun to watch him do that.

And he's got-

He was driving it back down to his yacht

is really the issue, right?

So he, you know, he couldn't have to have something

he could get through the narrow streets.

I'll tell you guys a funny story.

So behind, if you're looking at the casino over here,

like if you just walk a little bit,

it, there's all these apartments,

you don't see them when you watch a Formula One race

because for whatever reason,

they just don't want people seeing they built land.

They, you know, essentially built a place

where they could build these condos

that were out in the water.

I don't know how else to describe it.

So these places all have garages

and they're ridiculously expensive and whatever, whatever.

Everything you'd expect them to be.

They're right on the bay.

Verstappen went and bought like 20 of the garages.

So he went and bought all the fricking garages.

Cause I know Lando, cause a Lando's brother,

Oliver sold us a racing simulator and Lando told,

or Oliver told me about all of Lando's cars

and Lando has a killer collection.

So these guys keep all of their Formula One cars

outside of Monaco and it's, you know,

very storage places and have people bring them in

when they want to drive them.

But in any event, that's my whole drive.

I don't remember, got me started on this.

Did you ever remember that video

when Kimi Raikkonen crashed at Monaco?

I mean, it's one of my favorite.

Do you see that video where he just doesn't walk back

to the pits?

He just, it was such a Kimi Raikkonen thing.

He just, he crashes and he realizes,

I'm closer to my yacht than I am to the pits.

F this, hops a fence.

And then while the race is still going on,

remember cameras were shooting him

and he's sitting there with his buds, you know.

He just walks to his yacht and like, whatever.

The race is still going on.

He's drinking a beer.

That was great.

Do you guys think, I mean, are you excited about Audi

and Cadillac getting into F1?

Do you think that's really gonna make a difference?

I think it's gonna be interesting.

I think the more manufacturers get into,

I mean, I would love to see Porsche building engines.

The more manufacturers that get into F1,

there is, it will, what that means is

whatever that technology is, alternative fuels,

member curves, all these different things

they do trickle down to sports cars

and eventually everyday cars.

So F1 is sort of a feeding ground of automotive technology.

And if the main manufacturers are actually providing,

you know, running cars,

they have firsthand access to that stuff.

So, yeah, absolutely.

It just keeps broadening the audience too of Loyalist,

you know, more teams, more fans, definitely hits.

It's, that sport is exploding here obviously

now in the US for sure.

Did you guys have a chance to watch any of the videos

that were pouring out of Japan

about the Tokyo Auto Show and all that stuff

and CES and all these crazy cars

that I didn't even freaking know about?

Did you watch any of those, Paul?

Did you watch any of it?

No, no.

I saw, yeah, I certainly saw some of the Tokyo Audio Show

stuff specifically around the Nissan, the V,

which I know Paul's gonna probably mention here in a bit.

So.

Yeah, let's pop off to automotive news

unless you guys have anything else in this.

Yeah, well, one more thing, Tim,

I listened to your podcast with Caleb.

Yeah, okay.

It's R-Y-N and great podcast if you haven't listened to it

because I hate listening to our podcast

but I don't mind when I'm not on it.

So, it's fascinating.

The first thing I thought of is

if I was younger, less fat, I would definitely get one

because they seem attractive.

But what is it?

I know there was a founders edition.

You got to order a founders edition

and what does that mean?

Arrival next summer versus arrival next spring.

But is there any difference between

like do you get something different to get color?

Is that the color?

Are you gonna, do you get a livery?

Do you get a color?

How do you choose?

Well, so he has got a founders edition livery

already chosen, but you can do pretty much

whatever you wanted to do.

And by the way, for those who are listening out,

look at watching, Tim did an interview with Caleb,

who's the owner of R-Y-N, Ryan Motors,

which they're building a,

basically a street legal Formula 3000 car,

Formula 3 car.

Formula 3 car, yeah.

Or a 3 car that's a 3-wheeler

that can become a 4-wheeler

and when it's in a can be legal in all 50 states.

And it basically looks like you're driving

a Mini F1 car on the street, which is pretty rad.

And listening to, I think those are the,

the motorcycle engine powered ones,

still the weight to horsepower is ridiculous.

It's 1180 horsepower, thank you for bringing it up.

It's 1180 horsepower.

It's the frickin' motor,

which I'm really looking forward to,

is 13,000 RPM, you know, crazy rev limit.

No, and he said it's a 220 horsepower.

So you're talking about something

that's gonna be blisteringly, just ridiculously fast.

And it's gonna weigh 1,100 pounds?

I think it was, I'm remembering 1,140.

I don't think he actually knows it for sure yet.

It depends, like I'm showing right now,

if you guys are listening,

I'm showing a picture of this thing.

By the way, you can just go to R-Y-N Motors.

The spec site is up

and you can choose different colors of wheels

and things like that,

but he's starting to get into, like,

whether you want a carbon fiber wing

or carbon fiber this, that, and the other thing.

And none of his, none of his doodads are that expensive.

Like the back wing, I think he's got it at 3,500 bucks.

And that's a big old piece of carbon fiber.

So if you look at the whole project,

the whole product from, you know, soup to nuts,

it's 80,000 bucks.

And there's really not that much

you can really add to it.

I'm just, I talked to him yesterday actually

for quite a bit.

I'm excited about the product too

because A, I think it's a cool project.

B, he is a total implementer.

The guy's a total operational guy.

He's not a real techno nerd.

He's gonna take forever just to choose silly things.

He's getting this into production.

He had another business that he built that he sold.

And he's 28, he's frankly financially independent

from the sale of his first company.

And he's crazy passionate

about bringing this thing to market.

He's one of those guys where, like,

there's zero chance he won't be successful

with this project.

But honestly, what do you guys think

about the take rate for something like this?

And I've got some of his numbers, but I won't share.

I think he will sell as many as he can make.

I agree with that.

Interesting.

Do you guys really think so?

How many can he make?

He can make a shit ton, honestly.

And here's the thing is,

as much as this is cool for the US market,

I think the market where he will sell to

will be more outside the US.

Paul, do you know what's really cool here?

I know you're connected through the podcast

and obviously socially through a ton of people.

Did anyone else remark on that car?

Did they, did you get any feedback

from Eddie Bale's in general?

I'm just sorry, Chris.

Yeah, I think it just came out.

No, I didn't, I didn't,

didn't talk to anyone else about it,

but hopefully they'll hear,

the people who hear this will.

Listen to the line.

Yeah.

Go back and, yeah.

I mean, I haven't, when I listen to it,

I don't think the configurator is out yet.

I do want to go in there and configure a car

just to see what it's like.

You should.

And it's going to be,

he doesn't have any interior pictures,

but he does have pictures of the seat

and the seat in particular I thought was interesting

because it's very, very padded.

You know, it's clearly the only thing I could really,

if I were to bitch about something on this car,

and I'm going to set aside the safety things

and all the rest of it is there's no,

like I'm not sure what the ground clearance is.

In Austin, where he lives,

he has a steep driveway,

pretty much all driveways in Austin are steep

cause when it rains, it rains like a tsunami.

And so it's easy to have flooding.

So you always build your house up.

And so every driveway hits the street at an odd angle.

He said, if he takes an angle,

he has no problem clearing the end of his driveway.

So who knows, but there's no lift.

That's the only thing I can bitch about.

But other than that, it's just freaking brilliant.

And for that money,

what the hell else are you going to get

that's going to be as cool as that?

But who's buying that?

How much, so radicals aren't legal for the street, right?

No, you can't put a radical on the street.

So you, so your choice of that thing

is you have either like an Exocet,

which is a weird kind of white trashy thing,

which is a Miata with like a,

isn't a Miata basically with a tube chassis

or you have the one you need to have.

There's the Aerial Atom.

There's the,

I always forget the name of this beautiful one

that's out of England, but they're like.

Like how much are those things going for?

Like the average?

Well, an Aerial Atom all in,

if you go to their site,

you can speculate yourself

is probably around 100 to 110 grand.

And I think they've got a wait list of a couple of years.

And you'd want an Aerial Atom for,

but, you know, how do I say this?

I had an Aerial Atom and it was a crazy fun thing.

Everyone should at least drive one once,

let alone own one, but it's not beautiful.

I mean, the thing looks like it's an erector set on wheels.

It's just beastly looking.

That thing that Kayla did, that's beautiful.

Yeah, it looks like an F1 car, baby F1 car.

And at the very end,

he mentioned that he's gonna have a F1 car size,

which Dave, get this, it was gonna be like 1,600 pounds

and 650 horsepower, was it gonna be a V8?

I mean,

He didn't say, I don't think he knows yet,

but it's,

Would you do that the same way with the single wheel

so we can get it licensed as a motorcycle first?

I appreciate you guys showing interest in this

as I spent a lot of time talking to him.

So his plan is, is that the initial 30 cars

that he's got, that he's gonna try to get out

to influencer types, automotive influencers,

but really, you know, influencers,

people have automotive followings.

It's gonna be all over Instagram and whatnot.

Those initial 30 cars are gonna all be four wheelers

and he's gonna do, he's gonna get them,

I forget, that small vehicle production thing, SB 100.

Special SB 100, special deconstruction.

Okay, which in case you guys don't know what that is,

I don't remember the total number of cars

that a small manufacturer can make per year,

isn't it like 350?

Do you guys remember?

Yeah, I don't, but it's definitely under 500.

Yeah, and then they don't have to deal

with all the normal crash stuff and all the rest of it.

So his initial batch of cars is gonna be that way.

And then I'm gonna put up another picture.

The next batch of cars are gonna be sold as three wheelers

so they can be easily licensed in all 50 states

because a three wheeler doesn't have to,

you don't have to have a motorcycle license.

And you have, I think you have to have,

you have to have a plate on it,

but essentially getting that thing on the road

is gonna be really easy convincing a cop

that it's legal, it's gonna be a different conversation.

But along with that,

it's gonna basically ship with the kit

to convert it to a four wheeler.

So you'll, in essence, be legally buying a three wheeler

but in your own driveway, supposedly,

you're gonna be able to convert it to a four wheeler

and then essentially have that.

And I mean, some people might stick with a three wheeler

just cause it'll be kind of a unique thing,

but most people I'm sure will go with the four wheeler.

No, I'd like the four wheeler, that would be sweet.

And he said it was like, if you're fairly handy,

it was like a three hour conversion.

That's what he said.

I was picturing like, uh-huh.

Well, I'm thinking to myself,

three hours is a major project,

if you know, and that's if you know what you're doing.

So that's like a long weekend.

That's a six pack job.

So it's called, by the way, just looked up really quick.

It's low volume motor vehicle manufacturer active 2015

up to 325 cars.

Okay, there you go.

So that's, it's called, that car in particular

is called the FP3, which is a free practice three.

That's where we got it.

That's a, you know, a racing thing.

And then he is gonna come out with a formula one car,

but it's gonna be really brilliant for the price

for the experience that I'll deliver.

I don't think it really has any competitors,

which is really, really frickin' fun.

He will be successful with this.

I already know his pre-order count,

and it's a lot more than I would have expected

to be honest with you.

It's huge.

So he's gonna be sold out

at probably his first two years of production, I guess.

I would almost guarantee you within the next 60 days.

So-

When he comes up with the F1 size,

the name can be quality one.

Yeah, that's not actually a bad idea, you know?

Honestly.

Well, anyway, so I thought that, yeah,

that is something I'm interested in.

In July of next year, I think you said,

but, you know, give him some grace.

So maybe it's the end of the year, who knows.

But yeah, to answer your question, David,

that's gonna end up at your shop

because you're gonna have to put the rear wheels on it.

Oh, I love that.

That's made my day right there.

Actually, I'll tell you what I was thinking about doing

is getting a blank slate one, a white one,

and then we do full-throttle talk stickers on it

and whatnot.

Oh, I love that.

That'd be cool too.

You're a good rap guy here locally,

so that's no problem.

You guys, think about this.

What automotive influencer,

there's a whole automotive influencing game.

Those guys are like rabbit dogs trying to get clicks, you know?

That is gonna get more clicks

than any frickin' new Bugatti is, in my opinion.

And it's 80 grand.

Yeah.

Did he tell you what influencer,

any idea who's getting that?

That's the first thing I thought of.

So he did, and unfortunately,

I don't follow any of them.

So I didn't know any of the names.

I just played along.

Like Joe Rogan?

No, no, no, no.

Like some of the younger ones.

I've learned so much in the last 90 days

about this whole automotive influencer thing

and trying to understand it for the sake of our show,

how to essentially expose it to more people.

And just to summarize,

I am disappointed and shocked

by how little actual,

I'd say influential automotive influencers.

If you look into their past production,

they were like marijuana influencers a year ago.

And then before that,

they were like frickin' gardening influencers

or who the hell knows what.

So what these guys are doing,

and God bless them, they're marketers,

but they're going to find,

they're looking at the YouTube algorithm,

they're seeing what's getting the most views

and what pays out the most amount of money.

And then they're making yourself into whatever it is

that, where they can make money.

And that's the vast majority

of these automotive influencers.

And it's so frickin' competitive.

Most of these guys are going broke.

So, you know, for what it's worth,

yeah, we just stay true to our audience

and stay true to what we have passion in.

They'll find us and if they don't,

well, we have a nice time talking with each other.

To hell with them, man.

All right, so moving on.

And what did we do?

I think- Automotive news.

Automotive news.

Why don't you go first, David?

Well, I'm sure you guys all saw this

because it got picked up everywhere,

but I was shocked

and we've been discussing this whole move toward Radwood

and what's happening with these cars

from the 90s and early 2000s and so on.

And this thing blew my mind when I saw the number

that this 98 Toyota Supra Turbo went for.

I think the car had really low miles,

less than 9,000, something like that.

And this car sold for $242,000.

Found it at Simi, at the Mika auction down there

over the weekend.

And I've just blown away by that,

that somebody would pay that kind of money.

Back when these cars were, I mean,

this was at the end of the cycle

for this particular version.

I'm not a big Toyota guy.

So this kind of falls into a spot for me,

age-wise, that I was gone to other things

when this car came out,

but it's a beautiful car.

It's a truly driven piece.

Have you ever driven one of those?

I've never driven one, no, I've not either.

Have you, Paul?

Yeah, it didn't count though.

It was like a non-turbo automatic.

I mean, it was, but here's the thing is,

I do know people who have them

and the reason they modify them

isn't because they're capable,

because that straight-six motor,

you can put 1,000 horsepower.

They're way overbuilt.

It's because in stock form, they're kind of boring.

They are truly a GT car.

They're not like overwhelmingly fast.

They're not, they're heavy.

I don't know what the weight is,

but they're pretty heavy.

I think the best part about it,

I don't know much about who designed it

or the design process is they're beautiful.

I mean, in period, they're beautiful

and they've aged really well.

They're very iconic 90s sort of soap bar look,

real slippery, but I don't know if you guys saw,

it was all over the social media.

I don't know what cars and coffee it was,

but a guy in a white super that looked like that,

that crashed, did you see that?

No one, I don't think anyone was hurt,

like literally on the foot tail,

the coat tails of that thing closing,

one that looked just like it,

had this, leaving cars and coffee,

losing control, going over the median,

crashes, hits a Toyota Prius on the other side of the road

and crashes into a Toyota dealer.

I mean, it was pretty funny.

It was convenient and the comments were great

because it just was such fodder

for them to make fun of it.

Well, you guys are all choosing Japanese cars

which is really cool as far as part

of your automotive news update,

but I'll suggest this maybe for a future topic

if you guys want to chew on it.

The direction that the European car manufacturers

seem to have gone is not the direction

in which the buyers wanted them to go

and I'm talking EVs.

And if you look to see where the consumers

seem to be gravitating towards

or if I were to predict what they're gravitating towards

is the car you're about to talk about

which Paul is fricking gorgeous, the new Nissan.

But also, these fricking Toyotas that are coming out,

oh my gosh, guys, the GR Toyota fricking onslaught

of these badass cars that are not gonna cost

a ton of money, it's incredible.

And so, you know, you look to see the automotive landscape

if I were looking to buy a car,

you cannot, you're all of a sudden thinking

about Toyota and not the sense of making fun

of a brown Camry that plagues the roads everywhere,

you know?

Well, if you want a sports car

or something sporting under $75,000 with a manual,

it's just fricking Toyota, it's awesome.

Kind of, that's kind of it.

I mean, there's really a few Japanese manufacturers.

I'm trying to think, is there anything

from the U.S. domestic that you can buy under $75,000?

It's fun with a manual.

Corvette.

You must, no, not a Corvette, maybe a Mustang,

maybe a Mustang.

Yeah, yeah, but I, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly, exactly.

Collective, yeah.

But yeah, so ultimately it's,

if you were to think, for example,

of a Porsche that you're excited about,

there's a few of them, but new Porsches coming out

in the next, in 2026 that aren't ridiculously expensive,

there isn't anything.

And if you start going, there's this cool Subaru,

but it kind of looks crappy.

I mean, it looks kind of boring.

Toyota is going to absolutely hand the market

it's asked with these cool cars.

No fricking EVs, no fricking hybrids,

manual transmissions.

I mean, I, again, like Caleb's car,

I really do hope this kicks the door down

for manufacturers getting back

into making really badass cars.

I hope.

Yeah, no, I think it's a good point.

You know, and I mean, how many of you were,

were you guys surprised that Nissan

was coming out with a new iteration of it?

Because I didn't feel like,

I didn't feel like the first one really landed well.

I mean, I love the idea.

Was it because it was so based on the 370

that it just seemed like a facelift 370?

It didn't, it didn't look good.

I agree, David.

This car looks so much better.

So, I mean, this looks just like the old 240Z.

The only thing I really don't like is that silver.

I don't understand if you look on the,

going on the roof line to the C pillar,

is that silver stripe thing?

I don't know why it's there.

It just sort of looks like.

Did you see the design study

that somebody did it was on Instagram?

Did you guys see it where they're showing the 240,

like over the generations

and how that design in particular

was taking design cues and including that exact roof line

from the original 240.

So that's, they're emphasizing the roof lines.

So that's not just, that might just be a reskinned,

you know, old Z.

But if you looked at, there's no panels that are shared.

Everything about it is completely different.

So that car right there, that's a gorgeous car.

That car, the Nismo version,

that will be a badass car.

They put like 425 horsepower behind that thing.

Yeah.

Well, what's cool about,

besides they really updated design,

they refined it and they really,

I think made it beautiful.

The good news is it's getting,

they're still gonna offer the manual.

The manual will be coming out on the Nismo.

This car will hit Japan in this summer.

And they said that it should be towards the end of the year

in the US market as a 27 model.

The color's called Unryu Green,

which is homage to their heritage,

whatever they raced in.

But the biggest thing is upgraded suspension,

bigger brakes.

I think it's gonna have some different mechanicals,

upgraded, bigger turbo, faster.

But I'm most excited this as a Nismo.

But curious to see what the price is.

Is it gonna be 80, 85,000?

I don't know what the new Nismo is now

with the battle shift.

But look what's happening, guys.

We're finally past this whole

force everyone to buy an EV phase of automotive.

We're coming back, everyone's coming back out

with a manual transmission.

Corvette's supposedly doing it with the new Grand Sport.

You got Toyota bringing out these cool cars.

Subaru's bringing their STI out.

We're finally getting back to manufacturers

listening to what the consumers want

and not just running fear of whatever,

whatever the hell they were running in fear of before.

I'm not sure if they were making decisions

that were based on consumer demand

or based in decisions based on social pressures.

I'm not really sure, but who cares?

We're getting back to bad-ass cars.

Yeah, that's good looking for sure.

Yeah, I think that's not just good looking.

Whoever designed that, do you guys think of another,

could you show that again, Paul?

Think of another modern car

that looks that good just immediately.

Ferrari's, mm-mm, that looks better.

That looks really good.

So any of that.

All right, I'll share my automotive news.

I had was, I was very interested in it, Paul.

I know it's, it's...

No, I'm not gonna talk Corvette.

I'm gonna talk Alpina.

You guys didn't see me.

Okay, good, okay, good.

All right, so I was very interested

in about this whole Alpina thing

and I didn't really understand it.

So Alpina and BMW finally merged.

I thought they already had, so I didn't know about that.

I ended up writing an article.

I think I posted, shared it with you guys,

but it's gonna be in the full throttle talk newsletter.

Oh, by the way,

if you guys aren't subscribed

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We need Casey to say smash the like button.

He did that with such insincerity.

It was awesome.

Yeah, so Alpina, what they're doing

is they are going to be doing restorations,

which I guess they have been doing,

but they're gonna be scaling up the restoration

on Alpina built Alpinas.

Like mine's a customer built Alpina

where the guy in Germany went to the Alpinas dealers

and put together his Alpina.

That's my B6.

But so Alpina wouldn't restore my car,

but a real B6 that was made by them,

which, you know, they have a registry of,

even though mine has an Alpina number, who knows,

they probably would decline restoring my car,

but the original ones they're gonna restore.

So I think there's four cars that they're restoring.

And I thought that was pretty cool.

What are you guys thinking?

Yeah, I think it's cool, but I think they should restore.

I think, and you answered my question

with your newsletter when I read it,

I think they should be able to,

you find a really clean E30.

You've always wanted an Alpina.

You should be able to send it to them

and have them build an Alpina.

I don't care about the number.

The number stuff has always been stupid,

but I don't know if it's capacity or hubris

or why they wouldn't build a new Alpina,

but that I think they should do.

Otherwise, I love the idea of it.

Yeah, I was really excited when you suggested

that they're gonna be allowing people to,

you know, ship them an E30

and make it into an original Alpina, whatever,

but that was definitely not on their plans

from what I've read.

But who knows, it might change

based on consumer demand.

Why do you think they're doing that?

Well, here's ours.

Why do you think BMW is doing that?

Why do you think Alpina is doing that?

Why do you think they're essentially

putting focus on these old Alpinas,

which in the best of times are just super nerd cars?

Trying to dig deeper into the heritage of BMWs,

which seems to have lost its way

from a current position

and not any different than Porsche and other brands

are trying to pull from that history

where people were passionate

and bring that forward into today's buyer

and create some more passion around BMW.

I mean, I think that's part of it.

I think part of it is building modern cars

for modern global standards and laws.

I think for Alpina is becoming less fun.

It's harder.

And I think what Alpina enjoys

is suspension tuning, building the hot rod stuff,

and it's getting harder for them

to do that with a new car.

And I think this sort of just frees them

from the shackles of DOT and global emissions

and cafe standards and all of that crap

that makes building cars not fun

and they get to go do the stuff

that really got them excited.

And I bet you you can still buy your new M3

and go buy an Alpina suspension.

I was listening to a podcast about the Z8

and the really the trick thing with the Z8

is you buy the Alpina suspension on the non-Alpina

and it just makes the car magic.

And I think that's what they really, really like doing

and they just don't like building modern cars

and let BMW go do that.

Yeah, well, so the next question will be,

Alpina wasn't really building

true performance cars for BMW.

They were building more almost luxurious cars

with a lot of extra do-dads and whatnot.

Maybe they'll get back to making true hot rods.

Who knows?

But what you're thinking about,

they never really built like true like roof light

your hair on fire hot rods.

They built these like autobahn beasts

that were meant to go 190 miles an hour.

I think their target market were always mature executives.

They weren't as much of, I want zero to 60 times.

It was more like top speed,

comfort, luxury performance handling,

but not, I don't think Alpina ever

was like serious Canyon car.

It was about big horsepower for big top speed.

That's my impression.

That's speaking of big horsepower for big top speed.

The next car, okay.

I'll see you when you get back from your break, Paul.

All right, so the numbers finally came out on this thing,

which is ridiculous.

Now, granted, this is from a drag strip.

Well, all it's expressing is this stage for Corvette's.

I'll go this quick not to torture you guys,

but it is interesting.

Mr. North Carolina and I will appreciate this.

The Corvette ZR1 X numbers finally came out.

It's zero to 60 in 1.67 seconds.

Granted, it's on a drag, a prepared drag strip.

So who knows?

I don't know, that's puke-inducing,

but here's what I think is really fascinating.

It's 1,250 horsepower,

but that's a 20%, 189 horsepower to the front

from the electric motors.

That's 1,500 horsepower if you're assuming

a 20% drivetrain loss to the crank.

What do you guys think about that?

What the hell was going on in the world?

But you could buy an essence of 1,500 horsepower

Corvette for $235,000

that will absolutely eviscerate virtually anything else

from any price range made by anybody on planet Earth.

Paul, you first.

Who cares?

Do we have to do this again?

Who really cares?

I mean, it's like, yes, it's really fast.

Yes, it does all these things,

but no, thank you.

I will never buy one.

I don't want one.

They're ugly.

They look like bad day at McLaren.

Obviously, all these things, all these times,

all of this stuff is all built around being the first,

being the best, being for whatever period of time.

So we all like the fact that it raises the bar

for every other manufacturer to come out

with something equally as cool or equally as fast.

I don't know where it stops, right?

I have no clue.

You think they will though.

I agree with what you said.

It makes perfect sense.

Do you think that's what's going to happen?

Do you think the other manufacturers

are going to say try to compete with that?

No.

How can they?

They already do, right?

They already do.

Look, GTBs and around Nuremberg and all that, right?

I love your car.

I love your GT3 RS and Fire in the Market.

And if I, frankly, could spend more time with it,

that's what I would definitely get.

But your car's got 520 horsepower, something like that.

You're never going to win in a straight line, for sure.

It's not going to win even on the track.

And I'm just wondering.

Well, I'm just stating facts.

I don't want to piss you off, but your car gets

left in the dust on virtually any track compared

to the new ZR1, no one on the ZR1X.

Not the same class, the ZO6 competitor.

Don't mess with me.

I'm trying to make a mess.

I'm trying to agitate him.

He's been down this path.

I know, I know, I know.

But look, I'm not disagreeing with you.

But really at the end of the day,

it really does come down to the fact that you're right.

They did, they've elevated, risen the bar to the extent

that I don't think anyone's even

going to try to compete with them.

And so where will they go to try to differentiate themselves?

And let's just be honest.

Porsche and the GT3 products, unfortunately,

have been a little bit sleep on the wheel.

They should have come out with a 4.2 or a 4.4.

They should be making more horsepower.

The cars don't have enough torque.

These are all true statements based on if you've, you know,

driven all the other modern cars, it just, but I'll,

again, I probably still buy an RS, your car,

when you're done with it, you'll message me first.

So that's what I'm saying about that.

But it's fascinating.

Again, I'm celebrating automotive

and I'm celebrating manual transmissions.

I'm celebrating all these, you know, well-being folks,

not insisting that I love electric cars.

I'm celebrating the fact that we can buy

a 1500 horsepower Corvette.

I'm celebrating the fact that there's cars

being made again finally in every single one of us.

You know, we're all giving up hope.

Were you not?

Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm still stuck on the Corvette stats.

Cause when you said that with the Corvette

and zero to 61.6 and all I can picture

is the dude in Jortz in his chair at Cars and Coffee,

except now he's going to have his stats board

sitting in front of his car,

just tying for you to talk to him.

Cause he's so badly wants to flex about the superior.

When meanwhile, that car is going to,

when you plug in the computer,

it'll average speed over its entire life

of 28 miles an hour, period.

Exactly.

I'm sure you're right.

Not wrong.

You know I was talking back.

Then they're going to start pounding out

the special editions.

You know, yeah, of course.

Oh, hold on.

We got to get a pace car edition.

But hold on, isn't Porsche doing the same thing

with all their crazy Sunderwitz things

that they're coming out with?

I think they are.

Okay, it's okay.

But what do you got?

Just for the sake of conversation,

do you guys think, don't you think

Porsche is a little bit sleep of the wheel

with the horsepower wise with regards to the RS cars?

That's what they're doing.

They're trying to get all that shit sorted out now again.

Okay, that's the I think that's the best answer.

New CEO.

Let's wait until the GT2 RS comes out.

That I'm interested.

Well, for a million frickin' dollars with all the ADM,

it's going to be ridiculous.

But so when an RS loses its appeal,

if all of a sudden it was high,

like my personal opinion is that electrification of cars,

a hybrid car is going to be the way

that all performance cars will be made in the future.

Because it's such a logical way to make more power.

And people that have issues with it

are the same people that had issues with turbochargers.

Oh, it's not, you know, or superchargers

or all these other types of things

that added horsepower to a normal motor.

Electrification is just the latest iteration

of what people have been doing forever.

That's in my opinion.

Yeah, I totally agree.

So I agree.

If Porsche comes out with an RS that is a hybrid,

maybe even a plug-in hybrid,

what do you think,

what's the reaction in the marketplace?

What are people going to say?

Because it has to happen.

I think they'll embrace it.

I think they will.

If it's purely a hybrid,

if it's purely there to spin up turbos and things like that,

I mean, not like, nothing at the drivetrain, but, you know.

I don't think it'll be a plug-in.

I don't think so either.

Well, so my Ferrari 296, that's a rear-wheel drive.

And that's electric.

It's a hybrid and it's a plug-in.

I pretty much can guess

that Porsche is going to do the same damn thing.

The base motor without the electrification on our Ferrari

is 670 horsepower, something crazy, you know?

It's nuts, whatever the hell it is.

And the rest comes from the electric motor.

Porsche is going to do the same damn thing.

They have to, you know?

Yeah, they'll see.

You think the market,

you think all the nerds are going to accept it

or you think there's going to all of a sudden be a surge

in the pre-hybrid RSs, like, you know?

There'll be camps, people in both camps.

I mean, the only thing is with the GT3, GT3 RS products,

we haven't seen them turbocharged.

And that would be the thing I would say.

I wonder if that will cause more of a kerfuffle

that, OK, the last naturally aspirated Porsche,

the flat-six sports car now has finally gone the way of turbo.

Whereas basically every other 911 that's not,

doesn't have a GT3 on it is a turbocharged car.

So that's, I think, going to be the biggest kind of,

you know, pushback from Porsche people.

Could they do?

Initially, when they came out with the 991.2,

which was obviously then turbocharged,

there was a little bit of blowback.

But I was one of the guys that had the naturally aspirated

S and I thought, oh, my God, I've got one of the last

of the great cars and they're all going to be turbocharged

and nobody's going to want, you know, these turbocharged

cars didn't happen at all.

I mean, it was a little speed bump.

And people just moved right on.

They're great cars.

They're awesome, fun cars to drive.

Can you make an electric, can you do a hybrid

on a non-turbocharged engine?

Why couldn't you?

Well, yeah, no, I guess you could.

But it would be seemed like turbocharged

would be the first way to go because you're going to add

less because the plug, the hybrid's going to add too much

weight and weight's going to be the enemy of it.

So why not do the turbocharged and use the hybrid

technology like they're doing in the GTS, where you're

basically doing torque fill in your.

Right.

Do you guys know about this new solid state battery

technology that essentially starting to come out?

It was announced.

There's manufacturers using it at CES.

Do you guys know about the difference between the lithium?

They've been talking about it for a long time.

I mean, that's the sort of the what everyone thinks

is the next step in battery power.

Coffee, please.

Yeah.

You know, but just going back to the 991 thing, this

was the funniest thing.

The only people who care about the 991.1 being

naturally aspirated versus the 991.2 and later

being turbocharged is the guy selling the 991.1

because he always comes to me and goes, hey, it's

the last naturally aspirated.

I go, you're the only one who cares about that.

Not the buyer.

You really say that.

Do you really say it like that?

I pet him.

I'm there there.

We call it pretty kidding.

That's what we call it pretty kidding in our business.

We're just a little bit potentially

army. Oh, pretty kitty.

Otherwise they're going to get their claws out.

Yeah, exactly.

And I have a window sticker and I have the this

and I have the that, you know, I think, yeah, I

think you're accurate about the dude at the

ZR1 X showing up at the cars and copy with

his freaking, you know, his sign out that he

spent all the time having made it, you know, I'm

sure you're right.

That's hilarious.

Custom fits in the trunk underneath, you know,

underneath the rear hatch.

It's custom.

It's got to go in there.

He's got to have his easel that goes with it.

That's where it'll change.

Is if Corvette actually tries to build a track

culture around those cars that like Porsche has

that Ferrari doesn't have the McLaren tried to

have. So if they all of a sudden start putting

a lot of special events that are sponsored by

Corvette where you can go to Kota or you can

go to these other tracks and meet up with

other, you know, ZR1 owners, then you

have something special, you know, and if

they do that, then all bets are off.

All right, let's move on to the next

segment and I really like this one.

Paul, thank you again for thinking this up.

Your most memorable car project.

What would you do differently?

Pitfalls for our audience to watch out for

advice. I think of all I'll go last.

You guys can duke it out.

Who goes first?

Dave, Dave, you can go first.

OK.

Oh, this hopefully this will I'll do my

best to make this story as succinct as

possible because it's a very interesting

unique story.

This is 2018 and I am pondering what's

what I'm going to do next in life.

And suddenly someone presents me with

an opportunity to buy a 1978 9-11

Harga that's been wide-bodied.

And the story that I'm being told that

I can buy this car for $35,000.

It's 2000 late 2017.

The story I'm being told is that this

car is a one of one and it truly

was a one of one car that had been

built by for a golf executive.

And I found this out after doing my own

research pre-M 491.

So this is 78.

It's six years before you can actually

order this.

But if you had enough money over at

Sunderwunch, you could have them take

a car and make it a turbo look car.

So in 78, this is one in one only

car. And oops, let me get this car

up here here.

So there is the finished car.

Right. So you can see you cover this

up here. If you're watching here on

YouTube, you can see that it's a

wide-bodied car.

It's a Targa, which in and of itself

make it makes it reasonably rare.

But take a look at that rear wheel.

And you can see that that rear wheel

is tucked in a good bit.

And the reason for that is they

didn't do like they did on the M

491s.

They literally just put a two inch

wheel spacer on a stock

suspension, so it didn't get the full

trailing arms for this car to

turbo brakes or any of that.

It's basically a Euro spec SC

with a wide body kit on it.

And I had pictures, the stuff I

found to research to be sure that

this car was the car I thought it

was was amazing.

I had a picture of the guy who

taken delivery of it.

And, you know, he's in the Alps

with this car with a pair of skis

and a ski rack on the back.

And it's this car.

And you can tell it's this car.

So I'm getting all this German

paperwork and I'm researching and

trying to verify it because

everyone I would talk to about it

would say there's no way there's

no other car like this, that this

was not something that happened.

And they would poo poo the whole

thought of it.

So I bought the car, I brought

it in. It had been imported

into the US in 1985.

And it stayed with the same

owner throughout that period.

So when the car came in, it

had rust in all the typical places

in those door jams at the back

of the door jam. The car was in

Chicago, it was out of Chicago.

And it needed a full redo.

So here's Dave.

Just sold the company.

What am I going to do next?

So I spent this next year, all

of 2018, up at

another guy's shop.

And we stripped this car down

to bare metal and

did a full on restoration

on this car. That's the car

on a select bench.

And there was rust in these,

you know, these corners back here

and the whole section on the

right front of the car had to be

cut out and replaced

because it was all rusted and so

on. And we did a pretty

thorough and I was involved.

And this is kind of one of the

reasons I got involved in the

interior stuff, because the

interior, which is this is it.

This is the finished car with

the interior. It has the green

black tartan, the black

watch tartan.

And all the car had been

modded so that all that

had gone away.

Somebody just put black vinyl

in here as the car got older

and aged out of the seventies

period.

So I'm actually in the back of

the car stripping, thinking

we're going to have to redo

these rear panels.

And I'm stripping back the vinyl

that had been covered.

And lo and behold, the original

tartan has been covered up by

the vinyl underneath.

And it was all there and all

original. So that part

was cool.

Is that the original tartan

then in that photo you left

or did you have to redo?

It is not the original. We had

to redo all that.

But in the back, the original

tartan existed.

I just want to have a picture of

that at the moment.

Oh, that's cool.

This went on for a long time.

The car came out beautiful.

My my objective, of course,

was, you know, at the time, I

wasn't looking for one to keep.

I was thinking this was a car

I was going to take to auction.

And so this car I actually

took down to a Sotheby's

auction down in Florida

Fort Lauderdale.

And this is probably sometime

early 2019.

And it's my first time ever

trying to sell a car at

auction.

And what happened here

was one of the things we've

described before with the

shillbids and stuff,

the chandelier bidding

and so on.

This car was just in the wrong

auction.

It was a it was a

South South Florida auction.

There wasn't a bunch of Porsche

enthusiasts there.

It was a lot of other stuff

that was in this auction.

And I paid to ship it down.

I paid the fees.

I mean, I had a lot of fees

to get this car sold.

And it goes and rolls up on

the block.

There was not a soul

interested in it.

They they gave me the boom.

Oh, boom, boom, boom, boom,

boom. Oh, gee, sorry.

It didn't hit reserve.

You know, they made the bidding

kind of crap out over a little

over a hundred thousand dollars

and it didn't go.

They they originally thought

the car would sell for one

hundred and sixty to one hundred

eighty five thousand dollars.

And, you know, so I brought

it back.

And then a year

later, I loved the car.

I drove the car great

with the with the rest of the

world spec stuff on it.

As far as the engine and what

not, I thought it was a super

peppy little lessy.

But I had to sell it.

So I sold it to a guy.

I probably had a hundred in it.

I sold it to a guy for eighty

two thousand dollars

because I needed money to keep

some works going, right?

I just needed to sell the car.

I needed I was funding the

business early on.

So it got sold.

Doing that restoration and doing

it that way and only having

about a hundred in this car

total.

Keep in mind, this is nineteen

excuse me, two thousand eighteen.

So costs were way different

pre pandemic and costs were

cheaper.

And I was putting I was doing a

lot of the grunt work on this.

I was the guy

sandblasting all the parts

and doing all the deliveries

for the plating and all that

kind of stuff, doing what I

could do.

But, you know, at the end of

the day, this car later,

it's changed hands two or three

times subsequently with the last

time. I think at this point,

it's been kind of proven that

the provenance of this car

exists.

And I think it's at least

with being marketed at one hundred

and eighty grand.

So it's a very cool piece

and I don't know where it ended

up, but there's my restoration

story.

Hmm.

I can't do better than that.

That's awesome.

It's a cool story.

I mean, that's that's archaeology,

automotive archaeology, which is

always fun.

My favorite part of restoring

cars. That's awesome.

You had to go find a bunch of

weird parts.

I'm going to ask you a bunch of

nerd questions.

So first of all, how handy

are you?

I didn't even realize you were

much anything other than an

operator.

What do you know how to do?

Well, that's it.

I can, you know, I'm OK with tools.

I can take stuff apart.

I can bolt it back together.

I can turn a wrench.

I mean, you know, I can do all

that stuff, right?

I mean, I have those

capabilities at this stage.

I don't like doing that anymore.

I am interested in the interior

bits and stuff, but I don't do

any of that either.

I watch I like watching those

transformations, but I could take

any of these interior panels

and certainly bolt them up in a

car and put them in and put

the door panels.

The number of times in Paul,

I'm sure it's the same with you.

The number of times you pull the

door panel off a 9-11 to

to fix a bad window regulator

or, you know, not you.

You don't do any of that yet.

No, I don't do my thought.

My philosophy is why would I do

something that I can pay someone

else to do?

Well, thank you.

No, thank you.

Enjoying.

Oh, no, no, zero enjoyment.

I, you know, that when they

say first part of a problem is

me, you have a problem as a kid

growing up watching my dad work

on cars, do basic oil

changes. I learned all that stuff.

I can do it.

I maintain my race car.

Zero enjoyment.

I I just it's just

I end up bleeding.

Take a breath and take a breath.

Step back. I forget it.

But but I think Dave, you should

be hosting a Project Cars

Anonymous East Coast Edition at

your shop.

I think they it was like

a East Coast chapter when you

mentioned this to me.

I love this squirrel logo.

We'll figure that out.

Right.

Great logo.

So this this car underside is

all SC basically.

Did you have and it had turbo

flares on it?

So did you have to replace

the the flares?

Did you?

Oh, no.

And that was one of the things

on the car as we were actually

trying to do the research to

figure out whether or not this

car was legit is going up

underneath the car and looking

at those welds to make sure

these were real factory welds.

Our high nerd audience is

going to want to know what

you're talking about because

there is a difference to

describe to them how you

can tell whether there's a

factory installed.

So these cars all started as

narrowbodies in the turbos.

And they would go to

Thunderwunch and they would cut

off those fenders and then

they would graft on the bigger

fenders, but they would do it

in such a way that it was a

beautifully pure weld line

right along them.

Were they doing lead?

No, not there, but there's

definitely lead in the car

in the rear in the quarter

panels up around the windshield

area there kind of near the

back.

Let me so let me interject

this too for interest's sake.

So if you don't you have to set

that back flare on the car

exactly right.

Otherwise, it's too far this

way or too far this way.

And it's and you know, I've

seen lots of cars,

especially cars that were

long hoods where people put

ST flares on them and whatnot.

And the rear wheels sit too

far into the I mean, you

see this all the time, Paul,

in your world.

So it's doing flares is

the hardest thing.

And Dave, you know this

because you have all of

these things you have

forward back tilt.

I mean, look at this car.

Amber set up on the car and so

on.

Just look at this car.

The wheels are set up.

They put turbo flares.

Do you see what's wrong on this?

It's a 73 911E.

The turbo flare on the front

is too low.

It they welded it to low.

So then they have a shelf

there almost.

It should be up and that

section should be right

like yours.

The top of the fender should

just roll into the flare.

And literally as a result,

they had to raise the front

end to get everything to fit.

So the car looked like it was

doing rule.

Yeah, we'll get to mine in a bit.

But but yeah, it's flares.

Here's the weird thing.

I don't know if you've seen this.

If you look at 73 R S's real 73 R

S's and I was trying to look at

it on the one we're going to

talk about on bring a trailer

auction for whatever reason

are the right rear wheel

on a 73 R S sits further

in the wheel well than a left

side and like all of the ones

I've seen will hold that off

because that's interesting.

I didn't know about that.

So let's let's go.

Let's talk about that when we talk

about that.

But going back to Dave's thing

with the way that they did the

flares, but they use the

suspension from the SC.

So they had to do spacers.

By the way, the Porsches

did not stop doing that.

They did that.

You realize the 993 C2S

is basically the same exact

formula.

It is a narrow body with flares

with fricking, I don't know,

30 millimeter spacers to push

the wheels out to fit in the

arch.

I did not know that.

That's insane.

Turbo still even a turbo 930

turbo still uses a big spacer,

of course.

But this thing, it's why these

wheels tuck in a little bit

on this picture behind me is

because you couldn't get it far

enough out with with with just

the the spacer that they had.

I'm sure there was some issue

with the forces on the axles

and suspension and so on where

you'd bend it or do something

along those lines.

But that's as far out as they

pushed it on this particular

car.

The other telltale signed it

tipped us that this car was

legit.

In addition to the way the I

wish I had a picture of it

because I got pictures of this

car like crazy.

The way that they would apply

the black undercoating

underneath the cars, they

didn't well, they did spray

it, but they sprayed it on so

heavily with like a big motion

like this, that on the inside

of the fender kind of here on

the the outer portion of the

fender, it would drip down and

you'd have these drip marks that

ran down inside of that fender,

which was the way it was done

from the factory.

So when you saw it and if it

looked pretty or looked too

pretty, it probably wasn't

legit.

But it was a neat experience.

It was a very cool experience

to go through and do all of

the little bits and bobs and

research on this car to bring

it back.

And props to you for getting

all the little details right.

You are you didn't change

the SC rings.

I love how you have the

squirters, the you know,

rest of world squirters.

It looks really high.

Was that so of all the cars you

have restored?

Is that the most challenging

or is that the one you remember

with the most certainly not

the most challenging.

But if we want to talk about

the fact that I literally had

my hands in this one, which is

for versus the stuff we do

here, you know, I mean,

we've done tons of cars here

and there's there's I mean,

I'll tell you stories about

having to remount fenders four

times on a particular car.

You want to talk about,

you know, a car that had

been tweaked to begin with.

And we were putting flares on it

and, you know, my guy in the

body shop, the alignment was off

on one. And I had to we had to

recut those and do them three

times and repaint the car.

I mean, that's the kind of

horror story shit that nobody

ever really knows about.

But we should we should talk

about that in a future show.

Honestly, I don't know how many

people would be interested in it,

but it is I learned some of

this shit the hard way.

I bought a seventy three

original tangerine car

that had been made.

I bought it from San Francisco

after car week.

And I knew buying it that the

car had been hit.

OK, so I bring it down to John.

I never get his name right, Paul.

Espadito Espadito Espadito.

And then he and I'm going to I'm

asking him to, you know, do a

restoration. I just, you know, make

it just not into a nice car.

And he calls me up and he said

this car has been hit.

And I said, well, what do you

mean? He goes, it's not square.

And drove fine, went down the road,

fine. All the steering wheels

fine, the wheels are fine.

And then he showed me he'd

put it on a jig and it had

been hit so hard.

I think it was the passenger

side front. It actually had

an adverse effect.

I mean, you know, all this Dave,

you live in this world on the

back of the frickin car on the

opposite side.

And the whole damn everything

was just off, but you couldn't

have, you know, the guy didn't

eat guy disclosed it, but when

driving it, you couldn't feel

it. So it's I think it's

important when people are

choosing these projects that's

more than just this leaking

oil.

It's more than just that some

rock chips. When you go into an

old car, it could very well

have a bent box, a bent

chassis.

It's true.

Yeah. All right.

So let's move on to

Paul.

OK, so this is a category

of how how hard

could it really be?

And we all start projects that

way. I have done really two

projects when I really got to

know you. Oh, gosh, coming

on 17 years ago,

the 67 s.

That was the beginning of how

hard could it be?

This one really was deceiving

because this one really

looked like no big deal.

So I fell in love with this

car. It was it was

it was brought to me on consignment

from another dealer who couldn't

sell it.

Warning number one.

And and it actually

once you've been around an

original car that has not

been really molested with.

Now you look at this car and

you're like, holy cow, it

didn't make it out of the 80s

safely. Someone couldn't

resist.

So where this little

now what would appeal to it

was it was a two

owner, numbers

matching Orange County,

Huntington Beach car

that outside of

these ugly flares

that were put on it

and the stupid wheels, which

are MSW wheels, which are

knockoff

BBS wheels. We used to call

MSW wheels more shitty

wheels.

Basically, I mean, these are

wheels that look like three

piece, but they're not three

piece like that, that

kind of shitty.

So but all the

glass, all the trim,

all the deco, when

you go to the interior,

the interior unrestored

original 70,000 miles

every document from new

and it drove really well.

But what started with was

if you notice, this is a seventy

three nine eleven E

and as it happens

a lot with it's an E

with California cars.

Guess what's missing?

The mechanical fuel injection

and because what happens

in California is passing

emissions really hard.

You had to pass emissions

on a seventy three E

all the way to two thousand

three because it was a rolling

thirty year.

So somewhere in the late 80s

didn't pass emissions.

No one knew how to do deal

with the pumps.

So what they did, what they

do with all of them is they

took them off and they threw

on Webbers past.

Fine. So I'm looking to the

receipts in the receipts.

The mechanic goes, you

could see a note.

He suggested to the owner

how cool it would be

while they're fixing the

engine to put flares

on it because it's late 80s

and that's what you

frickin do.

So they well on

they welled on turbo flares.

And as we just mentioned,

they did not get the front

turbo flare right.

But but look at this.

It was a seventy three E,

which by the way,

ease were mostly ordered

highly option because older

people ordered them

and they wanted all the goodies.

But this one,

if you notice something

about the trim, Tim,

you'll notice what do you

notice about the deco trim?

Hold on, I'm adding pictures.

Sorry.

It doesn't.

Oh, it does it?

No, it doesn't go all the way

to the end of the fender, says it.

Well, what do you notice

about the fender, the trim?

I'm going to guess

that it's not the right

trim for the car.

It is the right trim.

It was ordered with non S package

like someone specifically ordered

base trim, the little thin trim,

not the S trim.

The only options

this car had was full leather seats,

beautiful, full leather seats.

So I'm sitting there

looking at this project and I'm like,

OK, so all we need to do

is get rid of those flares,

put some fuchs on it,

put an MFI on and refinish the seats.

The stitching is coming apart.

So this project, just to give you a scope,

I bought this project

in May of 2015 for $50,000.

The big number.

It was 2015.

Don't forget, actually, it wasn't 2015.

You remember, Tim, 2015.

We are in hog, crazy,

long hood, air cooled gluttony prices.

To this day, prices still,

I don't think have surpassed

what was happening in 2015.

And I look at this going May of 2015.

We are if you look at,

we are in the apex of what's happening in.

Was it 16 that the market just deflates?

And I'm thinking, oh,

this will be five months.

We'll finish it and we'll sell it

and we'll make good money.

So five months, I had it for

18 months.

I sold it.

I think in November of 2017,

the bottom fell out of that market.

The only saving grace is I spent

about $35,000 doing this

because I put a lot of my time

managing it and finding people.

So instead of taking it to like the

John S. Pazeta, I went to him

and I said, hey, how much is to put

stock flares on this thing?

And he laughed and he said,

50,000 in metal work.

So what I did, he didn't like you.

He definitely like you.

He got for 50,000.

He didn't like you.

But so here's what I did.

And I always tell people,

if you're willing to search,

there's ways to do it.

So I reached out.

So going back to their fender

conversation earlier in the podcast,

I was debating, do I just buy new

fenders and weld them on?

Or do I save them?

So I had some really old school

metal guys in the Porsche world

look at it.

And the thing about it is that car

had never been a part.

The gaps were fricking perfect.

That car was so dry, so perfect.

And the end of the day, they said,

look, if you can find the stock

flares and it's going to be

probably a because they said,

look, if you buy the dance flares

or wherever it was selling it

or the restoration or whatever it

was by the time you put it on,

you're going to do metal work.

You're going to have to fit and

finish. You're going to be in

the same boat anyway.

If you can find some stock

flares, cut these off right

with a good metal guy and

then weld in the flares.

So I reached out and Ron,

I don't know if you guys have

met Ron at Aussie sales.

He bought all the parts from Aussie

Dismantler.

He's in I think he's in the Midwest.

He had just got a 73

E RS clone and he cut

perfectly off.

It was the same model, same year.

Cut him off, sent him.

I found a metal guy who does

hot rods and sand rails.

Talented genius out in like

San Bernardino and he came

to my shop.

He had a laser thing.

We had like six or seven

unrestored original cars

that he took laser things on

basically to cut the flares off.

I then hired two guys that were

old school metal guys to go out

to San Bernardino with me.

They were so impressed with this

because he had him tacked up.

He's like, OK, guys, before I

really do it, like.

This is where they should be.

They all they liked him so much

that going back to don't tell

people who your vendors are,

they started using him for their

metal work and then he just

he's out of business now

because he's not a good business

guy.

He's actually working for Benton

doing metal work.

But anyway, so long story short,

that car became

that car.

There we go.

Now now.

So the other thing we did was we

learned about silver paint.

I will never paint a fricking

metallic car again, because we

had to paint this car three

times, which means we had to

strip it down twice.

And in California, painting a

car a little more difficult.

What I learned is silver.

You have to use a portion

metallics, a solvent based

paint.

Glazer. Everyone was ooh,

Glazer. I'm sorry.

Like we did Glazer.

We shot so many different

panels trying it out.

PPG was the best in this case.

We I and the other thing I

learned was I had the metal

guy disassemble it, a

restoration guy disassemble it.

I took it on a flatbed to the

paint guy.

I bought the paint for him.

Let me jump in here because you

said two things that are

interesting. First of all, I

want to let everyone know

because we can't assume

everyone's high nerd like we

are without this old car

stuff is that there are

different types of flares

obviously turbo flares,

SC flares, RS flares, but

arguably on those cars, the only

ones that look really right are

the ST flares in my opinion.

But also you also just said

something interesting about

paint and Dave, this is a queue

up for you.

The problem with silver or any

metallic but silver in

particular is that in order

to get you have silver and

metallic paint literally has

little, especially like that

has little chips in it that

causes a reflection to happen.

And if you paint the panels

differently, which is often

what you do on a 911, you

paint the door separately from

the rest of the body from the

hood and then you put the silver

back together.

The reason that one of the

panels will literally and you

got those and especially in a

short wheelbase car, that the

flares and the fenders really

get you screw with the light

sometimes when you look at the

door, the door will look too

dark. So if you're looking at

pictures and the door looks

too dark, that might be why.

But the moral of the story is

is getting all those little

chips to lay the same.

It depends on arts and crafts

from the painter, the air

pressure, fricking what the

humidity is, whether the

environment is perfectly controlled,

how long the paint's been

sitting before it gets sprayed.

It's insane. Dave, am I missing

anything? Oh, no, nothing.

You got it. And the way that

the orientation, the door is

hung. Yep.

Again, all that sort of stuff.

And we've, I will say,

honestly, we've had to repaint

plenty of cars or pieces of

bars.

Metallics are really tough.

And the silvers from this

era as well, never held up

well. They just they just,

you know, weren't they one

stage? I don't think that

I don't know. They were

two stage. Okay.

In fact, here's the funny thing

is when you look at this car

still had the sticker.

If you look in the Long Hood

9 11, if you open up

the driver door where the hinge

is above it, there's a space.

If it's still original, this one

had, there's a clear sticker

that they stuck in there that

says warning, this is

a two stage paint.

And if you don't do whatever

properly, it will fail.

It was basically a hidden

Easter egg cover your ass

story that Porsche knew that this

paint was shit and it was

going to go to shit.

No matter how well you took

care of it, unless you put it

in a frickin dark room and

never turn the light on.

But you know, so to add to

this, and I wish I had the

pictures of the poultry guy had

video. So these seats were

original leather and the

leather was beautiful.

You know how leather wears in

nice. So but all the

stitching, all the seams

were coming apart.

So one took and by the way,

this is another telltale sign

of a good restoration.

Do you see the pucker in the

seat bottom where your butt

goes? See that pucker?

Most people like you'll see a

seat where they actually

basically create a false

pucker by making some indent.

The reason that pucker exists

is it's dead nose.

It's there's there's string

behind it, pulling it down.

And it's called a listing.

That's what they call it's

normally a a piece of cloth

typically a thick, maybe

a, you know, an inch or two

thick that is sewn into

that seam right there and

dangles down and then

you're grabbing that and

pulling that down.

You know, kind of creating

that pucker and creating the

the bulge in the cushion, so

to speak.

And then that piece of listing

is then hog ringed, which is,

you know, think of little

attachments that you close

with what are called hog ring

pliers around the bottom

frame of the seat.

And that's how you get that

effect on both side bolsters

as well as anything like that

in the middle.

And so by the way, when I

look at restorations, the

first two things I look at

is the seat puck run along

hood and that front horn

grill thing.

And then that just

sometimes turns me off.

So what Juan did, Dave, is he

took this the seat off.

He then had to redo the

stuffing.

And then what he did was

behind every single stitch

lengthwise going on the whole

seat, had to put about an

inch wide piece of leather

to then have something to

anchor the new stitching.

So we I really wanted to keep

the original leather and just

keep it from coming apart.

And then using another

really, I mean, just the

number of people came out of

the woodwork to help me.

There is the engine PMO

carves or no Weber carves just

look gross.

And then we found the whole

MFI system, put it back

on, got it.

I mean, this was 2016.

Full MFI with the heat

exchanger.

Everything was probably

12 grand back then.

Today, that would be 25

grand at least.

I just can't believe he

only spent 35 grand on this

whole thing, like to do the

rest of I spent on paint

and body, 12 grand.

But don't forget I was I

was running it around and I

found guy.

Here's the funny thing is when

you find a guy who's just a

talented metal guy who does

hot rods and stuff out in the

middle of nowhere, you're not

paying the Porsche attacks.

Now, I think that's

sort of gone away and he was

getting his business started.

But the end of the day, I

am so glad I saved the

originality to it because

that car drove so good.

We ended up selling it in

November of 17 for $116,000

and Tim, this

the stamp of approval

was Dirk didn't know what was

going on.

I just showed him the end

product because he had a

client for the car and he

loved the you know how he

picks everything apart.

He could not pick everything

apart. By the way, the wheels,

I found a set of 15 by six

wheels that were unrestored.

So you got just that right

anodized finish.

The factory way with this,

you know, it's got it's

got like a soft and a

vised, a little hazy on the

lip, the lips a little

different. I mean, I just

obsessed about this car.

I enjoyed it.

But the thing was, yes, it

was only $35,000.

But if you took my time into

account, I probably would have

spent like 75,000 because I

did a lot of the work just

managing the project,

finding the parts.

You know, for someone who

swears off projects, you

sure speak with a lot of

passion about that silver

car. I was there for you

brother. We're just going

to listen as you tell your

story.

But not enough to, you

know, there's just not

enough money in it for all

your time.

That's the trouble you can

turn four or five cars and

make similar money with a lot

less hassle if you're not

cutting them apart and having

to do all that stuff.

I mean, so much can go

wrong.

Dave hit it. It's the

opportunity cost. I probably

could have sold more cars

while I was futzing around

with this. And by the way,

you know, the Ed was not

so excited about this as

we're writing checks and I'm

selling less cars,

finishing my little, you

know, hubris project.

But fricking awesome.

Hey, my great though,

that's killer.

So projects of the past,

I'll show you guys some of

them. I have I have many.

I've used projects as hobbies

and, you know, obviously to

distract myself from my normal

thing.

How many projects Tim, do you

think you've done? You're not

a shop. You're not a

business. This is a hobby.

He's the customer. He's the

guy. How many projects have

you started?

Honestly, I don't even know

easily 20, 20 easily.

Yeah, easily. Well, so this

would be the least project

of all my projects. And

David will sit and tell you

that that was a shit big

fucking. I'm sorry. A big

project from his perspective.

That's Albert. But I bought

this car 90% done. But then

when I got it, I've just, you

know, the interior as it was,

I didn't, I bought that car

side unseen because I bought

it from, um, I knew who the

builder was, John Gunderson.

And I knew who the people

behind it were. Jay Lee did

the motor and everything

about it was top notch.

And the interior, when I

got the car, when we went

out to California to see it

was a huge disappointment.

And they totally misrepresented

it. And I didn't want to

ruffle any feathers.

That's the reason that David

ended up doing a lot of the

work. But I'll tell you

something. Well, maybe I

shouldn't say this, but I'm

going to Dave's getting the

dash starts looking funky.

And I get this call from David

and he goes, Tim, there's

Bondo in the dash underneath

the leather. I'm going like,

what? He goes, yeah, I

like, what the hell does a

frickin replay? What would

a dash of cost for them to

put the right hundred and

thirty dollars on Mickey

Mouse and just put leather

on it? I mean, I'd never

seen anything like that

before. But now after

Sunday works has had the

car, it is frickin gorgeous

inside, outside. These

are old pictures before Dave

did his thing. But that's so

that's a project. I'll show

you the biggest project I'm

working on now. I need to go

to your thing. All right.

This is insanity. This is a

one for one FIA approved. I've

talked about this on the

show because I'm mostly just

looking for people to tell

me, Tim, it's going to be

OK. So this body, aluminum

body was done in England, and

it's literally an exact one

for one, even down to the

gauge of the alloy.

1955, 550. Now, had I

known, of course, how big of

a project this was going to be?

Like originally, I was the

original 55, 54 and 55, 550s

at race in Le Mans. They had

push-ride motors in them from

356. Do you guys know that?

Oh, the early, early, early

ones, right? Yeah, they had

push-ride, you know, 356

motors, bug motors, basically.

And then they started putting

these four cams in it. That

one's a 547 dash one four

cam that I had made in

Denmark by Peter Iverson.

That's, you know, basically

a new, some new old stock,

but mostly brand new parts that

were made by what's the name

of the company. They're now

making their own car.

Anyway, so that motor is a

four cam, you know, that's

an example of something that,

you know, Project Creep, we

got this thing, it took, you

know, Peter a year to build

it, it finally arrives at

customs, two days or three

days after the freaking

tariffs got put in place,

you know, and all of a

sudden the motor costs 20

more, exactly 20 percent

more. And I get the invoice

for it and it's just like

shut up and pay it.

All right. So anyway, this,

this is one of my projects.

This is supposed to be done

this year. I talked with Wade

Lewis, who's helping me put it

together. He's in Kentucky.

He's built these before. His

thing was building these. He

built, you know, he's a

great guy. I really like him

any event. So that's a

project. As far as fun

projects, there's a, I made

that one as a, oh, I like

that one. Yeah. Isn't that

awesome? So that's a, that's

a T 25 van again. Now I

bought this from bring a

trailer. It's 60,000 or

63,000 miles. It's a

carot. If you guys aren't, if

you're just listening. And so

this one, I sent it out to

Stefan's auto house and he

put a in an APR modified

250 horsepower 1.8 T in it. We

took the automatic output in

the annual transmission. I

sourced all the parts from

Germany for the suspension.

It's not a raised up to car

looking frickin, you know,

high boy. It's a basically

supposed to be a GT band. And

so that's one of my

projects. Here's another one.

I told you, I had a

problem. That's a 76

Soraco. And this is a

Soraco that I had as, you

know, I had a Soraco and

really that is a 3.2 liter VR

six out of a Cayenne. Okay. And

so, you know, this thing

makes monster horsepower.

And we would go back to

the Soraco. What was the

weight difference between

that motor and the motor

that came out of it? Did

it add a lot of weight?

I had no idea. It had a

two liter 16 valve in it

when I bought it. Again,

I'm just saying it as it is.

I bought that from bring a

trailer. The guy had painted

a career, you know, GT silver.

The paint wasn't good. We were

just talking about silver

that a lot of the fuel

injectors didn't even he

didn't even have any of the

frickin o-rings in it. So I

said, Oh my gosh, you know,

I should have had it checked

out first. I didn't. And I

sent it to what's that guy

in North Carolina? David,

help me remember his name.

The

shit. He does a lot of

Cayenne's now hot ride

Cayenne's. Oh, I'm like, no,

what you're like, no, so Mike

restored that car and took

him two or three years. I was

in a particular rush. It's

got a real Zender Z one body

kit on it. Mine had a replica

one back in the 80s. Real BBS

RS the whole thing. So he gets

this thing done. And then all

the sudden he starts getting

calls from all these European

enthusiast magazines. And so

it's been featured in three

or four magazines. I mean, I

could go on and on with

projects. I don't remember

what the original question was.

What you actually Tim, you

and Dave should definitely

hold the project. I'm not

done. This this this is the

one that. Oh yeah. Okay, this

is my 67 s. I bought this

car originally from Magnus

Walker. Just leave it there

and then basically restored

it. And that was an

experience in itself. This

car was last foreseen and

Paul actually this past

trip. I tried to sell it.

Yeah, try to sell it. But

this this is a gorgeous car.

I personally would love to

buy this thing back. Slate

gray red interior. It's it's

got it doesn't have a two

liter. It's got a 2.3 liter

in it. But everything about

it is basically as perfect as

I could possibly make it.

It's not numbers matching but

29 29 numbers off or

something like three or four

numbers or four numbers off,

which by the way, like they

say, unless it's parcheesier

hand grenades, it doesn't

matter. Yeah, it's just

crazy, though. But I had

all you know, so that was

a project that was just an

a massive passive. It was

a hobby, basically. So, you

know, it's as far as I know

that assignment was to pick a

car to restore. But David and

I sort of talked about our

past sins. And so did you. But

there it is. So if I if I are

doing enough, I won't do

another rest. I shouldn't

say that. I know I will online.

That's like by the way, that's

step four, like overcoming

denial.

But right there, that in my

opinion, a 550 in my, you

know, I'm sure very few people

agree with me is one of the

most beautiful cars ever

made. Proportionally, it's just

about perfect. I've never

driven one. So I might be

massively disappointed

disappointed in our rides.

You'll you'll love it. I hope

they will. I agree with you,

Tim. That that is what really

was my touch, you know, my

taproot or whatever you want

to call it for for where I

am today is my replica

spider. You will love

driving it because it'll be

interesting when that's done

and you have the RYN motors

F3 car because it's they're

kind of like they're they're,

you know, half a century apart.

They're they're the same idea

and, you know, what I like to

call 30 minute cars. No, they're

not even like that. Those

those are just not not the

same. You'll love the 550

spider. I'm just very curious

to see that four cam experience

because I've never driven a

four cam car. Have you, David?

Have you ever driven a

four car? I've not.

No, I had not. I haven't

either. I mean, this is how

much I'm trusting other

people and I hope I'm not

disappointed so far so good.

You know, it's worth

mentioning when you're

doing a restoration, try to

choose pedigreed people

because it makes a difference,

you know, obviously in getting

the project done, but it also

makes a difference when you put

it for sale. I mean, Peter

Iverson restored a motor.

He does in motors for Cam

Ingram. He did motors for

the Porsche's grandson that

your friends with Paul does.

You know, yeah.

So when you're doing it, he

did a one for a 904 that

the family owns and it's all

new. Unicorn, not unicorn,

the the Capricorn.

That's the company that

makes the replacement four cam

motor parts over in Germany.

So in any of that, those are

those are my stories of woe.

But if I had to do it, I'll

tell you what I'm really

passionate about right now.

And so I'm and I haven't asked

you to do this yet, Paul,

but I'm really, really

interested in that 1970 that

Viper green that European

collectibles has the 73 or the

70 s. I know you've already

worn me off that one.

But I that car for the right

money seems like it might be

a good, you know, lightweight

project. That's lightweight.

Those that's step six, you

know, underestimating what they

call it scope creep.

Yeah, exactly.

All right, you guys want to go

into segment four?

Yes, sir. All right, this or

that pick one car project from

an auction site that will

decide who picks the picks

the best best one out of a

group picks best in class

best is in the lowest entry

price. Oh, these were my

questions. Best in terms of

perception of the cool

factor. And I will go last.

I think then Paul's got to go

first because there's no way I

got to go. So so a couple of

years ago, we sold a beautiful

67 9 11 soft window

target non ass and Polo red.

It is one of these most

memorable driving experiences

where suddenly now I want a

soft window target short

wheelbase. If you haven't

driven a short wheelbase 9

11, there's something really

special about them.

And driving a soft window

target with the roof on and

the back thing flopped down

where you just hear these

induction noises and stuff

you never hear in a long

hood because you got glass

and steel. And I have yet to

get that out of my head. But

the problem with that car I

had was it was too nice.

And I would feel guilty. So

this car is a 60. I found

this on bring a trailer. It

sold and correct me wrong

guys, it's sold in February

of 21 for 58,500 as a

non running project. True

numbers matching soft

window target. Kind of a barn

find California founding like

Barnett in California

literally. Let me see if I find

yeah, that's where it was

stored for I don't know 40

years. It was kind of a low

mileage car. It had its

nicks and dings and scratches.

I think you could see the

the right front fender up

at the very front is kind of

caved in a bit. There's

the condition of the motor. It

is numbers matching. It looks

a little ratty as in rats

have lived in it. The interior

looks good though. It does all

the parts are there all the

hard to get parts are on the

car. And I went through the

whole listing the only rust

that really is problematic

which in the end isn't bad

the rockers seem to be fine.

It's there's a full a hole in

the floor. Putting a floor in

is a lot easier than putting

the rockers in the front

pan actually looks okay. My

idea with this project. So by

the way 58,500 for this

back then I honestly think

today. Because of what we

talked about with the

Longhood Market being soft. I

think it would sell for less

money today. I think that was

the beginning of COVID. I

think this you think so Paul

you think I think it would

settle in. Wow. I think it's

sell 40. I think just

that condition I would agree

absolutely. Wow. I had no

idea. I think people are

just afraid of projects. They

want to turn anything that

even smells like a project.

And you know what those are

selling for Kramer back in

the day and not that long

ago. Oh in 2014 this this

would have been 75 to 100

grand for as is restored

or that the soft

windows. So so the soft

window target we sold two

years ago that was the same

car. It was literally the

same car Polo read but it was

it was restored really

well to the point where

before I took it on I had

Dirk look at it and he

gave his thumbs up. It was

so nice. Everything nailed

right. It was a very, very

good tight restoration. We

sold that car for 180

grand two years ago. So

they were selling for

double that double than

that back. This is a

non s. This is a non s.

Oh OK. So yeah the assets

were selling the mid 300s and

some of them were going into

the 400s for a really nicely

restored 67 s. Isn't that

incredible?

Yeah. Yeah. So so the thing

about this is I look at this

project going I think it

would sell for less today

but going on 58 five I

would rebuild the engine to

a 2 2 high compression motor

keep the webbers. I would

leave the paint alone not

touch the body redo the

suspension. I would freshen

parts of the interior

probably the carpet

maybe the carpet but really

just the seats put some good

seats in maybe some reproduction

non headrest sport seats with

some Pepita the you know the

red the white black Pepita I

would almost try to ask you

Dave how do we make the

Peter look old without

stained like worn like yeah

basically I wouldn't do the

red bolsters but I would do

the Pepita like like Tim

has on a 67 s I think and

tell me if I'm wrong. I

think I could do this project

for 85 grand on top of the

purchase price rebuild the

motor. I think I think you

can do that.

Yeah. Transmission a lot of

metal work. Yeah. You could

need a ton of metal work you

could. Sure. I think all I

would do is the floor and we

would code it. I would not do

fenders. I wouldn't take a

dent out. I would I mean just

look at that patina on the

front. I mean just and then

what I would do is drive the

living piss out of this car.

I would take it on rallies.

I would drive it to Hill

Country. Guilt free. And by

the way oh Tim get this. Do

you recognize the wheels. I was

wondering those they are they

are 67 four and a half four and

a half inch really rare wheels

all five of them date stamped

that someone early in its life

thought that they would paint

them black and actually I like

them like this better. I would

leave those wheels alone. So

there's my project. I love

it. Very awesome. Yeah. I

mean we probably don't even

need to see yours. I won.

Yeah. Maybe. All right. Well

so I'll I'll go next actually

David. So as far as private

cars as far as project cars go

I wouldn't go to that extent

though I love the idea of

especially keeping it kind of

ratty but believe it or not

I would I mean my BMW is that

was my intention by the way

David don't you think I

haven't noted the fact you

haven't emailed me back

expressing interest in helping

me with that one helping you

with the upholstery on that

one which which is like out

of my drop zone but that's

OK. OK. Well so I'm going to

that's that's the that's I got

that from bring a trailer. I

might have a bring a trailer

problem as many of us do. And

so I want to restore this car

and I want to restore it just

don't want to make it super

nice. It already is pretty

nice. It's probably honestly

a six and a half out of ten.

I'm going to bring that car

up to a nine out of ten and

that's going to be the extent.

So I'm showing up and a

customer built Alpina B6.

It doesn't have a B6 motor

in it. It's got a hot rod motor

in it. And in short, you know,

everything about it's

essentially Alpina with the

exception of the gearing the

transmission in the motor.

That's a dream car for me.

It's an E 21.

I think they're gorgeous and

a really nice Alpina B6

that's essentially a ten out

of ten. Those cars are now

one hundred and fifty to two

hundred thousand dollars.

I got forty eight thousand

in this one. I'm not sure

how much it would cost me to

restore it. I think the paint

in interior assuming there's

nothing major with the

mechanicals, I could probably

get it done for.

I don't know. What do you guys

think? Thirty grand.

So we wait with the paint.

So I mean, how much of the car

you're painting the whole

thing. Whole car. Yeah.

Is it got the previous owner

painted it? But there's fish

eyes in it. You know what I

mean? Well, maybe those could

be nipped out and

and you know, color.

Sand it. Yeah, yeah.

So my fifth, you know,

I think it's when I saw this

when I saw this picture was

the door. Does the door fit

right? Probably not.

I think it's actually been just

for the I'm pretty sure the car

has been when I take the

battery out, I can see that

there was some sheet metal work

not in the structure of the

car, but some sheet metal work

that was done. So it could

be very I think maybe I just

didn't close the door all the

way. Actually, this is the

previous owner's picture.

But you know, so who knows?

Honestly, you don't know

until you get into them.

That's not a project, though.

I mean, here's the thing

is from and I know that

you bought it already from

the auction site. But to me,

that smells like a done car.

You just want to make it better.

Yeah, well, I'm not getting into

a project again. I had that's

too much of an addiction.

Like this was my other one.

I knew you guys would hate it.

But this nine sixty four

speedster, that one's mostly

done to the wheels of the

wrong. I mean, the wheels I

like, but they didn't come that

way. And there are some, you

know, finicky things on that

that I would do just for fun.

And it's got miles on it.

And that car I think sold for

like one hundred and sixty

grand. That would be a fun

project car in my mind.

But doing a whole redo,

I'm not up for that.

I think I should have defined

instruction like you.

It has to have in the auction

listing the word project

or the word rat or feces.

Right. Or storage.

All right. Well, that's what I

did to find mine.

OK, let's go. OK.

This is I don't know what

there is about these.

And this is one of those things

is like Paul's always looking

for drivers.

For some reason, I'm always

looking for some kind of RV.

Maybe it's like my age

or I feel like I'm ready to go

across America and I want to do

so. Your picture up, Dave.

Oh, I'm going to put my picture

up there. We go. Hold on.

There we go. That's it right

there. There is it.

There it is.

There is something really cool

about that design as ugly as

it is. But it's so 70s.

It's so killer.

Yes, I know.

I know that was the vehicle

they were driving through

theoretical Germany or whatever

they were. So it's a GMC,

right? Correct.

It's a it's a GMC, twenty six

foot RV.

I don't I'm sure it has a name

and all this other stuff.

And I was looking at all this

and trying to figure out what

was what. But I just thought

this car, this this vehicle

was the ultimate

Sunderworx roadtrip.

Excuse me, not Sunderworx.

Full throttle talk roadtrip

vehicle.

So take a look.

Look at this interior.

Look at this.

Oh, tell me that's not

Graham. Tell me that's not

Grandma's couch right there

from, you know, from 1973.

Blue light that blue light that

you imagine the things you'd see.

You know, oh, yeah, I

it only had 60,000 miles on it,

though. I feel like it can smell

cat urine from here in

marijuana.

I mean, I live through the 80s,

so some cocaine too needs

to be disinfected for sure.

But I would leave it just like

that. I would probably put a

it's got a four fifty five in

and I think carbureted it uses

a Toronato front

wheel drive setup, which I

wasn't aware of.

I mean, that's what it lists in

the B. A. T. description.

And all these things seem to be

all over California.

So you probably see them all

the time or, you know, there's

probably some shop out there

that does nothing but does

these things, right?

I can't imagine because I look

at that and if you want to

make that Tim nice

project, that that is going

to be a hundred grand of just

interior, just interior.

And I wouldn't touch the

interior. I'd leave it.

Have you guys ever been in

RV? I can do it for way less

than a hundred grand.

There's nothing I've

camped. I've camped in an RV

at Laguna Seca for

Historic's for the OK, that's

different. But have you

actually done what he's

talking about in an RV?

We're OK. No, so I have

and we rented one and let

me tell you the RVs, you

could make that into a

million dollar best of the

best. But the problem with

RVs is you have to go to

these things called RV

parks and RV an RV park

is awful because then you

talk to your neighbor on

both sides about things

like gray water and then

you're forced into

conversations and you're

invited to all kinds of

things that that you don't

want to even know exist as

far as what they're doing

that night. And God bless

RV parks and whatnot.

But RVs are cool until you

actually have to go and,

you know, put water in and

clean out the septic system

and all the rest of it.

That's all I have to say

about that. But this this

car sold not even a year

ago for seven thousand

dollars. So as a bargain,

there's the basis right

there. And you don't you

don't paint it. No, you don't

spend any time on that.

You just probably end up

spending ten thousand dollars

to put a full wrap on the

thing. Full throttle talk up

and down all over the place.

You'd have to get shots

before you sat on one of

those seats. Yeah, we would

disinfect the thing.

We were completely

disinfected. It would be

fine cleaning. I'm pretty

sure you're getting

hepatitis. Yeah, all kinds

of shit. You're getting.

I don't know that I

think she wants to send

to China to have, you know,

over to you long to have

basically modified.

So whatever happened to Dave?

Well, he bought an RV and

he's been sick ever since.

All right, let's go.

He's in a bubble.

Though, I think actually

if we have to choose one, I

have a look at look at Paul.

Look at Paul. OK, you guys

vote. You can't vote for yours.

So who did the best?

I can't vote for mine.

Yours. I'll vote for

for Dave's because yours

isn't a project, Tim.

He was he did it in the

spirit of the event.

But, you know, so, Tim,

I would choose yours.

And the only thing I would do

different than what you proposed

is I would put wider wheels

and tires on the back like

seven ours replica seven

ours just to save the

bazillions of dollars

that the real ones cost.

Tim, have you ever driven

a short wheelbase 911

on one sixty fives,

which is what the tires.

These came with one sixty

fives, not one eighty fives.

Yes. Magnus this

Magnus's car.

Yeah, had had sixes on it

when I bought it.

You're talking about the on the

four wheels to the four and a

half wheel.

The right now.

Fook came with six came

with us one sixty five

ours, fifteen, which was

probably an eighty five

series tire.

So a lot of sidewall, like you

said, it's the same overall

rolling diameter as a one eighty

five seventy two or five

sixty five or sixty.

But I think if you drive

a short wheelbase on one sixty

fives, you know, talk about

that is really the true definition

of slow car fast, in my opinion.

Well, what what you're trying

to express and the reason that

these driving these old cars

are so exhilarating is because

they they dance around.

So they they bounce around

and especially when you go into

corners, they they actually

but it's you're not.

You are so present like people

like when people say I love

driving, it's because

your presence almost like a

form of meditation, you know,

for a lot of people racing is

the same way, you know,

when I'm on the race track, it's

like tunnel vision.

Well, when you're driving an old car,

especially one that you have to

constantly be monitoring,

that is the same thing.

You cannot be worrying or thinking

about anything else.

That's what's so hypnotic about it,

which I think is the reason

people love it so much.

Let's move on to segment five.

This one's very

interesting. Paul Paul wins.

I didn't get my vote,

but I pick his car.

Yeah, I agree.

Well, I knew you were going to

say that one, too.

Well, we did one.

We did one of these.

We were involved in the interior

restoration of one of these.

And when it's all done,

that soft, that soft rear window

and just that whole target vibe

of that car is really cool,

especially in Polo Red.

I did like it in Polo Red.

I think it's a good car.

You'll spend a ton more money on

that to get that going again,

though, Paul.

They won't.

That won't go for 60 grand.

You'll spend more than that.

No, 85.

My my budget is 85 grand.

Don't touch the body.

Only thing on the body.

Well, don't no paint.

Nobody just just put a new

floor in.

That's all I could find that

was like safety wise structural.

You know, the funny thing is

the damn parts on this car

were are worth more even back

and when this sold are worth

more than what the car sold for

or damn near.

Yeah, I mean, those those wheels

are worth, I don't know,

six to 10 grand for the wheels

are and the decos are accurate

and all this stupid little bumper

over riders in the grill.

I mean, all these things.

All right, let's move on.

This is the last topic for today.

I believe unless you guys want to

get to some questions we had.

But this one is 73 RS.

Let's just go through this really

quick. Let me set it up.

And if I get any details wrong,

you guys correct me.

This one, I think, had the entire

Porsche world raising the ride

brown, not quite understanding

what was going on.

This was a 73 RS.

It was a real 73 RS

to start out as a touring.

It was originally SIPA

a separate SIPA brown SIPA brown.

Sorry.

It's not numbers matching.

Someone made it into a 2.9

liter and the car was in no sale

at 301 and I'll tip it off

by saying I think you should

have sold it at that price.

OK, you guys go.

Well, I think the reason you

sell it, I think the reason

you didn't sell it at that price

was wasn't there recently

like a hundred and fifty

thousand dollar repair bill,

which I wanted to see since

Dave's in that world.

It seemed like that repair bill

was generously padded

for auction sake.

That was my gut feeling like

maybe they said, OK,

hey, I need an invoice for this.

Make it look rich and make it

look thick like I really because

it just I don't know what it

was. And I think because

I don't know if the cell.

I think the seller was

fortunately, genuinely

naive and ignorant.

I think, though, when you get

past it, there was someone else

behind there who knew what they

were because there was a whole

kerfuffle about.

That's twice I use the word

kerfuffle is in stamp

is the engine stamp.

And if you look at this engine

stamp, I think it was supposed

to be a 66 as the first two

digits and someone stamped 88

or vice versa.

And there was this whole

debate over why.

And that was in

is you get deeper in the auction.

What what happened was and it goes

back to running a proper auction.

The seller was not ready for this

and it his ignorance

and maybe some replies of just,

hey, you know, it is what it is

doesn't fly on a collector grade

car. And as a result,

he poked the wrong bears and some

of the big, you know,

maybe they rightly know because

they know like Wayne Dempsey

from Pelican Parts and Mark

Allen within the excellence.

They said stuff that was not

right. And that just opened up

the flood the floodgates.

And I think that auction was

doomed from like day two.

Basically, the minute

that somebody starts challenging

on one of these cars, you know,

one of 1500 and they

start challenging the stamps

or the, you know, they wanted to,

you know, can you pull the

the knee the knee pad

and show me the, you know,

the stamping on the underbody

and so on like that.

And by the time people start

throwing even the slightest

amount of doubt onto authenticity,

it's over and you're not going

to get the big money.

I mean, here's what you see

in that time and time again.

Here's what was interesting

to me about this.

I was going to use this, Paul,

for your previous question

with regards to a project car.

But what I didn't realize

until I started looking was

how what these things

are actually selling for as,

let's say, fully restored numbers

matching cars, a touring,

not a special, you know,

of all the RS series.

Those cars are in the mid 600s.

So even if you were to buy,

I just looked on.

No, mid mid 600s buys you.

I tell people, if you're going to buy

a real 73 RS

and you don't buy a budget one

because the cost to make

a budget one good.

So like the ones that are 600

are drivers.

And even if in most of the time

people who buy these cars,

they want great.

They don't want a driver.

So to give an idea,

remember that chartreuse one

that I said just sold out was

Paul, don't bounce off that so fast.

So I went on to classic.com,

which I know is your go to source

and you can pull it up too.

And it said the average sale price

for 73 s in the last 12 months

is $653,000.

I don't remember the change.

And so you could.

And I'm not disagreeing with you.

You're the expert.

But you could very well say

that was just a bunch of doggie

cars that came to market

in the last 12 months.

But even at that,

those are legitimate comps.

And so it's going to pull

the overall market down.

And my point is,

is there's not enough meat

on the bone for someone

to buy it and restore it.

I agree.

I agree in the end.

Even if you let's say he sold it

for 300 to make that

car right, not 150.

I'm thinking 250 to 300

easily, if not more.

Because I mean,

I'll bet you anything

that deck lid isn't correct.

Good.

I don't know how do you find a 73

RS deck lid with the aluminum?

That the more you pill

the layers of the onion back.

I was like, I'd rather have

a nice hot rod.

Forget this.

You could.

There's a company in England

that makes the alloy deck lids

with the duck tails arts.

Our Albert has one.

It's alloy and all the bumpers

are metal too.

So you can get it remade.

But you're right.

They're astronomically expensive.

So so if someone of.

You guys know that you can still

I'm actually I can't say this

for sure, but back when I was

restoring our 67 S I got

offered cases that were

unstamped that Porsche either.

I don't know the whole story

behind the unstamped case thing,

but I know for a fact

you could buy an unstamped

seven hour case.

Someone could have found

the original case.

And then I also know at least

two people in Southern

California that had the

original dies for stamping

the engine number back in.

So someone could have found

the original case, stamped

the original then number back

in.

And then, you know, that would

have immediately put more value

on the car.

But I mean, so as far as what

this thing was actually worth,

I mean, do you guys think

that was a fair price?

Or do you think it was?

I mean, the seller thought

it was worth more.

What do you what's your take?

We're more in it.

But I just think personally

that that was just the

absolute wrong venue for that

car.

It should never.

I mean, it's it's absolutely

branded from here on out

because of the amount of eyeballs

that were on that car.

Whatever that VIN number is,

it'll be a lookup forever.

It's always going to drag

that car's value down.

The guy probably, you know,

he probably thinks it's a half

a million dollar car.

So so that makes total sense,

David.

So with that work car,

if that car were for sale

at like a non Monterey

because Monterey auctions,

they wouldn't sell that car.

But let's say that's that

gooding or something like that.

And they're in Florida.

They're Amelia Island.

That's be a good venue for that

thing. What's it worth at an auction

like that?

Not. I mean, had it not been on bad.

Three hundred. I think it probably.

Yeah, I really say the same money.

So you get tops out.

That guy, like David said,

that guy is foolish not

for selling it because now

good luck.

But had it not had it not

had the VIN lookup VIN history

because it was on bad.

It had just been a fret.

This is the first time

it's been for sale.

Scatchy history.

All of a sudden, it shows up

at Gooding and Amelia Island.

You still think three hundred?

Well, first of all, any auction

that's going to take this car on

that you want it to be at

like a Gooding or an RM,

it's going to be no reserve.

They're going to look out and go.

Yeah, sure.

It's going to be no reserve.

And I think that

regardless of value,

you know, normally that's going to be

$250,000 number

if the car is worth more than that,

they'll sell it with reserve.

But that one with all the stories,

that's the problem.

It's just got too many stories.

Way too many.

This this car, sadly,

I mean, I think it is a fun car.

I think it may be value wise.

Even if let's just say someone goes

nuts and restores it to the best

it possibly can, the most original

finds all the right parts,

just goes absolutely nuts.

They would be foolish to do it

because it's going to have this

scarlet letter anchor always

yanking on it and pulling it down.

And I would say that's going to

cost it 20, 30, 40 percent

of the value throughout the rest

of its existence.

Sadly, that's incredible.

We've had a lot of people commenting

about that whole legacy

of the bring a trailer in the easy

of the it's not just bring a trailer

where you can look up a VIN number.

You could have done that

had been listed anywhere

because all listing sites

be at classics.com require you

to drop the VIN number in

and they verify it too

before you're allowed to run the ad,

right?

Yeah, yeah, which is why

it's really hard to find.

We have our VIN number

hidden on our website.

Yeah, it's really hard to find.

Most of our cars sell

before we have to put them

to the general public.

And part of the reason of that

is one for fraud.

But I always tell people

it's to protect the seller

and the buyer

because the buyer's car is invisible.

And eventually

nothing's a forever car.

They'll go to sell it

and it'll be nice to

when you go to Google the VIN,

you pick any of our VINs,

you Google them.

Nothing shows up.

That car for the most part

never existed.

And the more you can keep it

that way, it really

preserves the value of the car.

It preserves from people

making false claims

who don't even know the car.

You're just saying

you're saying something super important

because we got criticized

wrongfully for saying what

because people didn't understand your point.

We're not saying

not disclose the history of the car

and be sneaky.

What we're suggesting is that

when you get a bunch of

half-wit naysayers

that are dumping on a car

on a public site

like bring a trailer

and someone searches the VIN number

and then reads all the comments,

even if 90 percent of the comments

are right, they're accurate.

The 10 percent are the ones

are going to be the damoclean sword

hanging over the history of that car

for the rest of its life.

I mean, that's really the downside to it.

It's the comments.

It's not the disclosure of the history.

Yeah, definitely not.

Yeah, it's I kind of feel sad for the car.

You know, I really do.

I mean, too.

And in sepia, thank you,

Brown would have been actually kind of cool.

Yeah. Yeah.

So let's come back for sure.

All the Browns have come back now.

So if you've got a car

that was originally Brown,

bring it back.

That's right.

Bring bring Brown bring Brown back better.

Oh, you made it political, David.

Why'd you go and do that?

So it's such a thing.

So listen, make sure you're subscribed

to full throttle talk.

If you are, if you're on YouTube,

definitely subscribe, leave a piffy comment.

Let us know.

Look, guys, we love your suggestions.

We have actually quite a few little comments

that we didn't get to.

If you have any suggestions on a show topics,

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whatever ideas you have.

If you even want to submit articles

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Chances are we're going to say yes.

Let's build the community around full throttle talk.

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Bye.

$301K Porsche Fail: Project Cars Are Broken

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