This is about the media access pipeline in the auto industry: journalists typically get early access to new vehicles for reviews and coverage before public launch. That timing affects how cars are marketed, how early impressions form, and how manufacturers manage messaging.
The Ford Mustang is a famous Ford sports car. It became popular in the 1960s, and the hosts are talking about an early moment when journalists got to see it before most people.
Ford Motor Company is the automaker behind the Mustang and many other brands. Here, the hosts discuss Ford’s internal reorganization and leadership changes, which can affect product planning, engineering priorities, and how quickly new programs get approved.
Doug Field is a senior automotive executive associated with product and engineering leadership. The segment frames his departure as significant, implying it could influence Ford’s technical direction and how major vehicle programs are managed.
A company reorganization is when leadership and teams are restructured—often to change decision-making, align departments, or shift resources toward new priorities. In automaking, these moves can directly impact program timing, engineering culture, and how cross-functional teams collaborate on future vehicles.
The iBOT was a special kind of powered wheelchair. It could raise the person up so they weren’t stuck looking up at everyone else during conversations.
The Porsche Cayman is a sports car made by Porsche. It has the engine placed toward the middle of the car, which helps with handling. It may be mentioned because the seating position and cabin shape affect how people can see and talk to each other.
Apple is mentioned because the person worked there on product and hardware engineering roles. That kind of experience can matter for cars today because vehicles are increasingly software-and-tech driven.
Tesla is mentioned as part of the executive’s career path, where the person spent time leading vehicle programs and engineering. While Tesla isn’t the focus of a technical automotive explanation here, it signals experience in EV/vehicle software and program management.
UEV is a label for a new kind of vehicle program Ford is working on. The important part is that it’s meant to be built using a modular approach, so Ford can develop and produce it more efficiently.
A modular approach means the car is built from repeatable parts and systems. Instead of designing everything from scratch, manufacturers reuse the same building blocks across different vehicles.
“Skunk Works” is basically a nickname for a special team that works fast on big, experimental projects. The idea is to move quicker than normal corporate processes.
This is about organizing the whole process—from designing the product to getting it built at scale. The goal is fewer gaps between teams so new vehicles and features can launch more smoothly.
The Ford Five Hundred is a sedan model that Ford made in the mid-2000s. A sedan is a car with a trunk for cargo. The podcast mentions it as part of a discussion about Ford’s product plans during that time.
An EV platform is the basic “skeleton” a car is built on. A universal platform means the company tries to use the same foundation for many different electric cars so they can build them faster and cheaper.
Company
JMC
JMC refers to a Chinese automotive group that Ford is working with for EV efforts in China. Partnerships like this are often used to localize production, meet regional regulations, and share development costs.
Volkswagen is another automaker Ford is partnering with in Europe. These kinds of deals can help both companies move faster on electric cars without paying for everything alone.
Ford Blue is Ford’s group for gas-powered cars. In this conversation, they’re using it to show how Ford separates EV planning from traditional vehicle planning.
The Ford Model T is an old car model made by Ford. It’s important because it helped make cars more affordable for more people. The podcast brings it up when talking about Ford’s past and how the company developed new technology.
This is the work that makes sure all the car systems work together and that the car is ready to be produced. It includes quality checks and getting the program ready for real-world manufacturing.
Purchasing is the part of a car company that works with suppliers and buys parts. If it’s not included early, the team can get stuck later with higher costs or parts that aren’t available when the car is supposed to launch.
Concept
income state
This sounds like the speaker is talking about where the EV team currently sits inside Ford. They’re wondering if the reorganization is meant to change how that EV group operates.
A “reorg” is when a company reshuffles how teams are organized. In this case, Ford is changing how its engineering groups are grouped and who they report to, which can affect how quickly cars and tech get developed.
They’re bringing up General Motors as an example of how another big automaker organizes its teams. The point is that Ford is moving toward a structure GM has already used.
A “platform” is like a shared foundation for multiple cars. If Italy is handling platforms and performance models, it likely means they’re focusing on the common vehicle design and the sportier variants.
EVs aren’t just batteries and motors—lots of the driving behavior is controlled by software. If a region is assigned “EVs and software,” it usually means they’re trying to develop the car’s tech as one package.
Concept
virtual development
Virtual development means testing and designing cars using computer simulations instead of building everything in the real world first. It can make development faster and cheaper because you catch problems earlier.
They’re talking about who will be in charge after the reorganization. When teams “report up” to a person, that person typically has more control over priorities and decisions.
It’s like a cooling-off period after someone quits. They’re paid to stay away from work so they can’t immediately take secrets or know-how to a competitor.
A product development organization is the part of a company responsible for turning ideas into real vehicles—engineering, design, validation, and program management. The segment contrasts “skunk works” speed with how those methods might scale across the larger development organization.
Car
mid size electric pickup truck
They’re talking about Ford’s next electric pickup that’s meant to be in the middle size class. The conversation is about how Ford will build it and what the company calls it internally or on the way to launch.
The Ford Ranger is a mid-size pickup. They’re comparing it to other Ford trucks to talk about where a new electric one might fit in terms of size and cost.
The Ford Maverick is a smaller pickup than the Ranger. They’re using it as a reference point to guess how big (and how priced) a new electric mid-size truck could be.
The Toyota Tacoma is a pickup truck that’s meant for work and rough roads. It’s popular because it can handle towing and driving off pavement. The podcast mentions it in the context of comparing it to an electric vehicle.
An electric platform is the “underlying layout” built for an electric powertrain. The idea is that it can make it easier to fit more passenger space into a smaller vehicle.
Packaging efficiency means using the car’s space well. For EVs, the battery and motor can be arranged in ways that may leave more room for people and cargo.
The Ranchero is an older, well-known vehicle concept. They’re saying the new “Ramchero” idea is similar—car-like up front, with a more useful box area in back.
“Car-based utilities” means a utility vehicle that’s built like a regular car underneath, not like a traditional truck. The idea is you get some truck-like usefulness without the full truck structure.
An EV platform is like a shared “foundation” for multiple electric cars. If Ford uses one platform for many models, it can make building them cheaper and faster.
The Ford Super Duty is the bigger, tougher version of Ford’s pickup line, built for heavy towing and work. The hosts are pointing out that Ford is prioritizing trucks like this in its future plans.
The Ford Expedition is a large SUV made by Ford. It’s meant for people who need more room, like families or road trips. The podcast mentions it while discussing why Ford makes money on different vehicle types.
Body-on-frame means the car is built on a sturdy “frame,” and the body is attached on top. It’s often used for trucks because it’s good for towing and carrying heavy stuff.
Battery plants are factories that build the batteries for electric vehicles. Automakers are spending a lot of money on them, so they’re watching whether EV sales are rising or slowing down.
Brand
Stilantis
They likely mean Stellantis, the big automaker behind brands like Jeep and Ram. The hosts are talking about how major automakers are dealing with EV sales and battery investments.
Battery chemistry is the exact type of battery materials inside an EV. Changing chemistry can help improve things like range, cost, or how easy the battery is to make.
Even if gas prices are high or uncertain, EV charging stations are still being added. When there are more places to plug in, EVs feel less risky to buy because you’re less worried about running out of charge.
How long it takes to charge is one of the biggest reasons people hesitate to buy an EV. If charging takes less time, EVs feel more like normal cars for everyday use.
Superchargers are fast EV charging stations. They’re built to charge cars quickly, and the equipment design matters because it affects how easy it is to plug in.
They’re talking about changing how the charging cable is positioned. Instead of you pulling a heavy cable across to the car, it hangs from above so it’s easier to plug in.
Concept
data center gets built next door (electricity demand constraints)
The joke points to a real constraint: charging stations need substantial electrical capacity, and local grid upgrades can lag behind demand. If a large new load (like a data center) comes online nearby, it can strain power availability and affect charging performance.
Instead of having different teams pass work back and forth, “under one roof” means one group manages the whole project. That can make decisions faster and reduce confusion.
Concept
EV group vs ICE group
They’re talking about a company splitting into two teams: one focused on electric cars (EVs) and one focused on gas cars (ICE). If those teams don’t agree, it can get confusing for how the brand is marketed and sold.
Renault is being discussed as a company that plans to cut some engineering jobs. That matters because fewer engineers can slow down or reshape future car development.
Stellantis is mentioned as another automaker making engineering cuts. When companies reduce engineering staff, it can change how quickly new vehicles get developed.
Leap Motor is a Chinese company that builds electric cars. The discussion suggests Stellantis is using Leap Motor’s know-how so it doesn’t have to start from scratch on EV technology.
The hosts describe Chinese EV brands gaining market share in Europe, which forces established automakers to respond. This is a common competitive dynamic: when new entrants grow quickly, incumbents often cut costs, slow spending, or re-plan product timelines.
“Cut their way to prosperity” refers to cost-cutting and restructuring as a strategy to restore profitability. In automaking, this often means reducing headcount, slowing non-core projects, and partnering externally for technology rather than funding everything internally.
The segment argues Stellantis bought a stake in Leap Motor specifically to avoid spending enormous sums to “reinvent” EV technology. This is a strategic approach: using an existing EV platform/technology partner can reduce time-to-market and development risk.
The hosts describe a “value-oriented” small EV strategy—aiming for affordability rather than competing head-on with premium models. This matters because price is a major driver of EV adoption, especially when incumbents are under pressure from lower-cost Chinese offerings.
The hosts think older car companies are pulling back because they’ve lost a lot of money on EV plans. So they’re likely to cut spending and be more careful about where they invest next.
A fully electric van doesn’t use gas or diesel—it’s powered by a battery. The main things to check for a business are charging convenience and whether it can do the work you need it to do.
They’re saying the van might look like a normal product from a familiar brand, but the core electric-vehicle tech comes from China. That can affect things like software updates and long-term support.
Mazda is brought up as an example of a traditional automaker teaming up with a Chinese partner. The goal is to move faster into EVs without starting from scratch.
BMW is mentioned as working with a Chinese partner to build vehicles. It’s an example of premium brands adapting by partnering instead of doing everything alone.
Company
Jeally
“Jeally” is the Chinese partner mentioned with Mercedes. It’s part of the idea that automakers are teaming up to move faster in EVs.
Mercedes is mentioned as part of a partnership strategy with a Chinese company. The goal is to keep up in the EV race by sharing technology and resources.
Great Wall is the Chinese company mentioned as part of the production setup. It’s basically about using a local partner to build cars more efficiently.
“Transit City” sounds like a name for a transit-related vehicle or project. The podcast brings it up while talking about companies expanding their offerings to other countries. It’s mentioned more like a program than a specific car model.
They’re describing a scenario where new rules require automakers to hit very strict emissions/energy goals by a deadline. If the rules change again, companies may have to spend a lot of money to comply.
Ford is talking about a “Universal Electric Vehicle” program and platform. That usually means building EV technology in a way that can be used across multiple models, which helps reduce cost and speed up development.
A joint venture is a partnership where two companies share the work and the risk. Here, it’s about a Chinese company teaming up with an established (legacy) automaker so they can enter the U.S. market more quickly. The “minority partner” part means the legacy automaker still has majority control.
The Trump administration is the U.S. government leadership under Donald Trump. In this segment, they’re talking about rules and pressure that could affect whether Chinese cars can enter the U.S. and whether companies must partner with U.S. automakers.
BYD is a big Chinese car company, especially known for electric vehicles and battery technology. The hosts mention rumors that Ford might have been talking with BYD about working together in the U.S. The idea would be to combine Ford’s experience with BYD’s EV know-how.
Concept
Japanese Automatic Automotive Manufacturers Association
This is an organization where Japanese car companies coordinate and talk strategy. In the segment, they’re described as trying to make the whole Japanese industry more competitive, not just one company at a time. It’s like industry-wide teamwork.
Commonizing components means using the same parts across many different cars. That can lower costs and speed up production because factories don’t have to make everything from scratch. The tradeoff is that some cars may feel less unique.
Thermal efficiency is a measure of how well an engine turns fuel into motion. If it’s higher, the engine wastes less energy as heat, so the car can go farther on the same fuel. The segment is saying China’s tech is getting very strong here.
Internal combustion is the traditional engine that burns fuel to make power. The hosts are saying the Chinese auto industry isn’t only strong in electric cars—they’re also improving gas/hybrid technology. So competition could hit even buyers who aren’t shopping for EVs.
Formula 1 engines are purpose-built racing power units designed to maximize performance and efficiency under extreme conditions. The speaker uses them as a benchmark for thermodynamic efficiency, noting that costs are effectively “no object,” which allows teams to use advanced technology and aggressive tuning.
Duty cycle is basically how an engine is used over time—like how often it’s running hard versus cruising. The point is that real driving conditions make it harder for a gas engine to hit the same efficiency as a purpose-built race engine.
It’s basically a measure of how well the engine turns fuel into motion instead of wasting it as heat. If efficiency is higher, you typically get better mileage and less energy wasted.
Higher compression means the engine squeezes the air-fuel mixture more before ignition. In general, that can improve efficiency and power, but it also increases the risk of knock, so modern engines rely on careful calibration and supporting technologies to make it work reliably.
The Ford Edge is a midsize SUV made by Ford. It’s designed for regular driving and family use. The podcast mentions it as a vehicle that offers newer features without being extremely expensive.
The EV segment just means the market for electric cars. The point here is that China planned years ago to build the technology and factories needed to sell lots of EVs.
Lithium is a material that’s widely used in EV batteries. If countries can’t get enough lithium, it can slow down how many electric cars they can build.
Rare earths are special metals used in electronics and some electric-car components. If one country controls most of the supply, it can affect how easily other countries can make EVs.
Cobalt is a metal that has been used in many EV batteries. It matters because getting enough of it can be difficult and expensive, so it affects EV production.
They’re saying new industries get better by trying things, making mistakes, and improving. For EVs, that means companies learn how to build them and supply the materials more efficiently over time.
They’re saying COVID slowed down travel and business activity involving China. That can delay how quickly companies elsewhere can work with Chinese suppliers and ramp up production.
Concept
national strategy vs subsidies
The hosts contrast China’s national strategy and large-scale subsidies with the US approach. In automotive terms, subsidies can accelerate EV and battery investment by lowering costs for manufacturers and speeding up supply-chain buildout.
Alex Partners is the company sponsoring this segment. They’re pitching themselves as a help for companies trying to change fast—like shifting to EVs and rebuilding supply chains.
They’re saying the auto industry is changing in a few big ways at once. Cars are moving toward electric power, companies are using more software and data, and they’re redesigning how parts get made and delivered. All of that has to happen quickly to stay competitive.
LIVE
Speaker 1: Auto Line after Ours is brought to you by Alex Partners.
For more than forty years, we have helped companies and their stakeholders around the world harness opportunity, overcome challenges, and achieve outsized outcomes Alex Partners when it really matters.
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, thanks for joining us on Autoline after Ours.
What do we have a lot of good stuff to talk about today and joining us to talk about it.
We've got Adam Bernard and Derome Levine. Great to have
you guys on the show.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: And also we have the indefatigable Jerry vassilas well.
Speaker 4: That's quite a word. Irrepressible, irrepressible, irrepressible. Greg. So here's
something so as you as you all know, journalists get to see cars before the general public gets to see cars, right, been that way for quite a while. So on this
day in nineteen sixty four, a car was shown to journalists.
What car was shown to journalists? And I am convinced
every single one he knows the answer to the Mustang.
Speaker 3: It's got to be the bus.
Speaker 4: Stay yeah, I agree, Mustang? You agree? So which leads
us to what I believe has to be a vital topic for this afternoon. Ford Motor Company's reorganization I will
call it, and Doug Field leaving the company.
Speaker 3: Yeah, shock, yeah, shocked me.
Speaker 4: So for those of you who don't know who Doug Field is, I looked at his background. You know, we
just we just throw these names around and we assume everybody knows this guy. So he's got a Bachelor of
Science mechanical engineering from Purdue. Then he went to MIT
and got an MBA from the MIT Sloan School and at the same time got a master's in engineering. So
then he decided to go out in the working world. Right.
So he actually started out working at Ford in nineteen eighty seven. And what I never knew that as a
development engineer.
Speaker 3: He worked there for.
Speaker 2: Six years, no kidding.
Speaker 4: He left. He left Ford and went to Johnson and
Johnson Medical, Inc. And was the manager of process development
for three years. Then he went to DECA Research and
Development Corp. Where he was the chief engineer of the
iBOT program. Now that you'll remember that was the wheelchair
that they made that would elevate people so if you were in a wheelchair, you wouldn't have to look up at people to talk to them.
Speaker 2: You would look at this, is that Dean Cayman's company company.
Speaker 4: Okay, so then Dean Dean Cayman. Then they segued into
the company Segue where Doug Field was the VP of Design and Engineering and chief Technology Officer. Worked there for
nine years. Okay, he leaves there and he goes to Apple.
He was the vice president of Mac Hardware Engineering for two years. He was the VP of Product Designed for
three years.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 4: He leaves Apple, goes to Tesla, spends five years in total at Tesla where he was first the VP of Vehicle Programs, then he was the senior VP of Engineering.
Leaves Tesla, it goes back to Apple and he spends three years there as the Apple Vice Friends Special Products Group.
Then from there he goes back to Ford for where he began. Okay, so they got this guy who is
clearly experienced, capable, talented, and develops your favorite forthcoming vehicle.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, the UEV.
Speaker 2: This is modular assembly vehicle done with the skunk Works out in California. You're right, I'm really excited about this program.
Speaker 4: So they announced yesterday that they're going to be creating a new end to end organization product creation and industrialization to develop to deliver one of the most intensive product, software and services roll out in Ford's history. So what's
going on it for now?
Speaker 5: I wouldn't I've never met the guy, but it sounds like from his resume that he's an immensely talented, probably immensely charismatic person who can get hired anywhere and loses interest after a couple of years and whatever it is he's doing, because he's been doing a lot of interesting things and moving from place to place to place to place to place through his entire career, which I'm not saying as a criticism, but it's a guy who probably loses interest in what he's doing. So having completed this
platform that we talked about, he probably figured it's time to move on to someplace else.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it's worth noting that he was five years at Ford. Five years for a Silicon Valley executive
to spend an all maker is an eternity. The fact
that he lasted that long, it's part of your credit to Ford. I do agree that at the moment, Ford's
EV vision beyond the Universal EV platform is a little unclear.
You know, they have some EV's going on in China, with JMC, and they've got some partnerships with Volkswagen and Renault in Europe, but their US vision is a little unclear.
And maybe he said, you know what, I need someplace with a clearer path, And maybe that was one of the reasons why he left. He said, I got this done.
The future is cloudy. Time to move on.
Speaker 2: See the way I look at it is, you know, Doug was running the skunk Works essentially. He had been
running Ford Model E, you know, which was Ford's electrical stuff, and then a year ago Ford gave Dad to Andrew Frick, and Frick was running Model E and Ford Blue, which is all their ice stuff. And then so Doug was
still doing advanced kind of stuff and the skunk Works reported to him. But I always thought Ford had a
day of reckoning coming when the skunk Works project was ready to hand off. And what's the point to hand
off to going to hand it off to the legacy manufacturing part of the company. And that's a dangerous handoff.
That's like dropping the baton and the relay at the Olympics, right, or the potential is there to drop it. And so
I think Ford, and this is just me reading the Tea leaves Ford recognized, you know, we can't keep the skunkworks just out there operating stuff and risk this handoff.
We've got to bring it back into the system. And
by the way, the legacy system, it's got to change.
It's just way too slow. And so they've come up
with this end to end, which I think is is an organization that will take everything from design sketch to you know, cars rolling off the line under one.
Speaker 4: Okay, so the organization as engineering manufacturing, engineering, software and Digital systems, EV platform development, vehicle integration and quality and launch readiness.
Speaker 3: There's one thing missing.
Speaker 2: It should have purchasing too, but it doesn't.
Speaker 6: But does this mean because I read that the press release that I didn't see Model E or Ford Blue mentioned at all, and I think those business units are now No.
Speaker 4: No, they still.
Speaker 2: Forward to ask exactly that thing. And because my my
first thought was, oh, they want to take Model E off their income state. Yes, that's where everybody can see
it's losing billions of dollars. But they're keep point of fact,
they're going to leave Model E as a standalone business unit and Ford Blue as a standalone so you will see their financials in the income statement, So I was surprised by that.
Speaker 4: So basically this is this, This is a reorg of the way they do engineering it Ford Okay, so basically who else does it?
Speaker 3: Just sort of like this?
Speaker 4: Oh that's right. General Motors have been doing this for
like ever, right, I mean, if you look at their operations, it's you know, all global, so you do it that way.
At the same time, you've got a situation where it'sti like this now is going to be going more on a on a geographical basis. So in Italy they'll be
doing platforms and performance vehicles. In France EV's and software
or the US, but doing trucks and jeep In Germany it will beating eights AI in virtual development. So for
it is basically saying, h let's bring it in like General Motors is doing it. But I mean I look
at this and say, you know, you've got Doug Field, who is like the Rocks. I mean, he's he's the
most unassuming, nice guy, you know, one of the nicest guys I've ever met in my life.
Speaker 5: Well, they said a lot of nice things about him when he left, so I don't think they necessarily wanted to lose him, So I don't think they don't didn't feel like he was being pushed out.
Speaker 4: So why did they like back up the Brinks truck to his house and say, come on in, take what you want? Well, journalists, do you think people do think
for money? Not everybody does for me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I want you to make millions and millions a year. You know, it's it's less of
a motivator. You want the challenge of something. I think
with this new reorganization, everything's going to report up to Kumar Ghultra. This is a big, big for Kums.
Speaker 4: He's been the chief operating officer at FORTS since twenty or then. Then before that he was in Ford Blue.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, but I think, you know, Dug Field looks at it like I'm going to be reporting to Kumar. I've
done everything here I can do with the company. Right,
time to move on. Yeah, I agree with you, Jerron.
I don't think he was pushed out. They all said
very nice things about each other. He's not leaving for
another month now. Usually if you make a decision, somebody
gets pissed off and they, you know, slam the door on the way out.
Speaker 6: Right, And we haven't seen his name obviously surface for another automaker, so I'm sure a lot of automakers maybe reaching out to him at this point.
Speaker 2: They might be, but you know, usually you have at least a one year you know, non compete, none compete.
You know, what do they call it in Formula one?
A gardening leave, oh where you have to go, you know, tend to your garden for a year before he can join another team.
Speaker 4: So he'll have no trouble being employed, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: If he wants true.
Speaker 4: But I mean, it just seems to me that this is the guy who is just made such a tremendous difference.
Speaker 5: I hope when he made the statement as well, that he hopes to share what he learned at these places and someone.
Speaker 2: Else to me, YEA, no, you're right, he's not out a signal, Well you can hire me.
Speaker 6: He's left behind the culture with the skunk Works. The
Skunkworks is able to deliver what he has promised so far.
That bodes well for whatever else for it. And it
sounds like some of the learnings out of the Skunkworks maybe apply to the larger product development organization. It's well
in terms of speed, cost, Conning et cetera. So there's
a good foundation that it sounds like you mightta left behind.
We won't know until we actually see the truck next right here.
Speaker 2: That's right, No, And that was the goal all along, was that the Legacy Gops learn from the skunk Works.
And besides, there's another terrific tech guy, Alan Clark, who's running that. Alan's been working Underdug and now they're been
up from a director to a vice president.
Speaker 5: So I'm more interested to hear how Ford really does this with this next step in this mid size electric pickup truck. Have you heard anything about what the next
model will be that will get that UBX plate TV.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would make sense. They've talked about four, five, six,
maybe seven.
Speaker 6: They've hinted at a van, and they've hinted at a carc hatchback or something. I think they said it was
five or seven different derivatives. So it sounds like it's
got some flexibility built in.
Speaker 4: So Adam, let me let me ask you. Okay, So
they're going to be coming out with a mid sized truck. Okay.
Last year, the Ranger, their mid sized truck seventy one thousand. Okay,
Maverick one hundred and fifty five thousand. Okay, the seventy
one thousand isn't even in the breathing space of the Tacoma, and it's an electric vehicle. What's happened to electric vehicle
sells at Ford and everywhere else?
Speaker 3: Is this a good idea?
Speaker 6: You know, I'll be cure to see how mid sized midside the truck turns out to be. I'm wondering if
it's gonna be somewhere between Maverick and Ranger. But I
think the good news is with an electric platform, you can have the interior space of a mid sized truck on a smaller footprint, so that gives them some packaging efficiencies there. You're right, the fact that it's full electric,
you know, the reception that's an open question. But the
thirty thousand dollars price point sounds appealing. Now we're all
waiting to see what's going on with slate. Smaller truck
twenty five thousand dollars, but for two seats and no equipment, thirty thousand dollars will probably get you a slate equipped like a base mid size for an electric truck. So
then the value proposition becomes the big question, and the design.
It sounds like it's not going to look like necessarily a Maverick or a Ranger, so they may have some opportunities there.
Speaker 2: Right, it sounds like it's going to be well I should back up one second. Supposedly the name is going
to be Ramchero, and to me, it's going to be a very aero dynamic looking Ramchero with the interior space of a RAM four is what they've been.
Speaker 4: Talking and were enough With the Ranchero, it's basically like a sedan without a with a box on the back.
Speaker 3: Yes, the old car based utilities.
Speaker 6: Well if Ford has talked about electrifying iconic nameplates, so Ranchero is definitely. I mean for a lot of younger
people they are like, what's a Ranchero? But for other
folks who may remember to go to classic car shows, it's about it.
Speaker 2: But you know, I think what you're getting at Gary, there's no way they're going to sell as many of these electric pickups as they do Mavericks or Arrangers. And
you're right, and that's why I and they know this too.
That's why I think they're talking about five top hats coming off that platform out of that plant. So you know,
if you sell thirty or forty thousand of each of those models, you fill up the whole plant, right.
Speaker 4: But I mean when they made this announcement yesterday though, they're talking about how by twenty twenty nine, Ford will refresh eighty percent of its North American portfolio by volume and seventy percent of its global portfolio bay volume. This
includes the first vehicle on the Universal Electric Vehicle platform, a mid size pickup, the next generation F one, P fifty, and F series Super Duty. So all they're talking about
is trucks, right you know. Now, you know, more than
half of their twenty twenty five sales were trucks, So Ford seems to be just turning into a truck company.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's interesting they didn't mention any particular SUVs like Explorer, which is still kind of a core product for them and will be well overdue for refresh by twenty twenty nine.
So I'm so kind of surprised they didn't mention SUV's in particular.
Speaker 4: So is it is it because perhaps trucks is where Ford makes money?
Speaker 6: Oh, I'm sure that's part of it, is where truck Ford making Although Ford makes a lot of money and navigators and expeditions too, So I'm not sure why they unless you just want to said, you know, we don't want to play all our cards, man.
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's more that And you know, in this business, truck the term truck can easily include SUV.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think body on frame is really the operative idea here, not necessarily truck with a bid in the back, just anything that's big and can can tow.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So, Jerome, what do you think about Ford's outlook? I mean,
you write for Seeking Alpha, which is well keep learning investments, And.
Speaker 5: What I'm watching carefully is to see whether there's some uptick or slow of the decline of evs generally in the United States, because I'm interested in the future of Ford and Stilantis and GM and we want to see these companies recoup some of their massive investment into batteries, battery plants, all kinds of technology. They're beginning to switch
chemistries now. And we know that early on in this
the first quarter certainly was down a lot. From this
the growth was down. The question is is it going
to level off, is it going to turn up? Is
it going to start to grow? I'm wondering I think
in some ways the price of gasoline currently may be pushing people a little bit to give it more consideration, But more consideration doesn't necessarily translate into a sale, So I think people might be thinking about it more. Tell
me how much longer this situation in the Persian Gulf persists and where crewd goes and where gasoline goes. We've
had We've seen oil shocks before in our history, so there's no I don't feel like we're in the middle of an oil shock right now. It feels like we're
something in the middle of something more temporary. But we
could be in the middle of an oil shock, and that would certainly cause a lot of planners to be adjusting their plans for the next five years.
Speaker 6: And I think to your point about EV a option, even with all the question about oil prices, EV infrastructure continues to expand. You know, at the IONA and all
the other charging companies are still building their charging units out, and there's some reduction funding from the federal government, but there's still gonna be more places to plug in by the end of the year than there are now.
Speaker 2: I own to deal with Circle K stores right they're putting in three hundred stations glow nationwide.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that continues to get better, right.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: The market search I've seen from Escalin, which I think is really good. There's a couple of million people that
are very interested in buying an EV, but their comfort levels not there. They want to see more evs on
the road, they want to see more public charging stations, and definitely they want to see the price come down.
But Ascalin has said those three conditions get met. You
could see two million people step into that segment.
Speaker 3: Then at what dollar five dollars gallon gas?
Speaker 5: On top of that, and one of the metrics has been the time it takes to charge.
Speaker 4: And so now they have these superchargers.
Speaker 5: That I think Julie just put into Europe with they're talking about a five minute charge for a battery. Now,
in order to do this you need a massive piece of hardware to do it. But I also noticed that
they were doing something interesting, which was they were having the cables come from above as opposed to being something you pulled out and then dragged over to the car.
Speaker 4: I think that.
Speaker 5: Older buyers and consumers have had trouble with some of these supercharger cables because they're super heavy, but but it's cleverly if you put it from above and it just sort of hangs and then you can just put it into the These are the little kinds of things that are going to be That's one example, but they're going to be one hundred more where the where the designers and the engineers are thinking about the convenience of the consumer, and then eventually it's going to all converge to a model that actually works.
Speaker 4: That's, of course, until the data center gets built next door.
It sucks in all the electricity.
Speaker 3: That's where it's going.
Speaker 5: We'll be getting solar power from outer space from one of Elon Musk's satellites.
Speaker 4: At that point it'll be okay, no, so okay. So John,
do you think this was a good move on Ford's part.
Speaker 2: I don't know enough about it yet, Gary, to be honest.
I mean, what they released and what everybody reported is very scant. You know, there's there's a lot of details
without really explaining what's going on. And so look, as
I said at the very beginning, just hand off from the Skunkworks to the Legacy OPS was was a danger point that had to be addressed, and the Legacy OPS simply moved too slow. So if you can, more like Tesla,
put everything under one roof, you know, per program, from design sketch to you know, vehicles rolling off.
Speaker 4: A lot like in the olden days.
Speaker 2: More like the old day. That's exactly right, except that
you know, the olden days also had their silos. Design
was a silo, Engineering was a silo, manufacturing a silo, purchasing a silo, and uh, you have to go way back to find it all under one group, at least at four it so.
Speaker 6: So but if that's the case, then what's under model in and what's under blue?
Speaker 3: And that's the question. We don't know yet, we don't
know what's left. That's right.
Speaker 4: So I mean it's basically be that they become the owners of the product, sales and marketing. Yeah, be, and
that this new set up does all the design engineering.
Speaker 6: And although that's weird because then you have two different business units responsible for the Ford brand. M So what
happens when they disagree on how to market a how to sell the brand?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Well, again, you have the you have the EV group, and then you have the ICE group. And you know,
so this guy's dealing with explorers and this guy's dealing with mocking, so, you know, never the usual meeting. Yeah,
but it's interesting. You know, we saw this week that
Renault announced it is going to be laying off fifteen to twenty percent of its engineers over the next two year period. And Stilantis announced it will be getting rid
of six hundred and fifty of its one thousand, six hundred and fifty engineers at Russell Sheine Tech Center.
Speaker 3: Yeah, old guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and who did Stiantis just sign a deal with to do electric obls?
Speaker 4: Wasn't it Leap Motor Motor?
Speaker 2: And so it's like.
Speaker 3: This is the way of the world.
Speaker 2: You do a deal with the Chinese and you get rid of hundreds of your own engineers.
Speaker 4: Well, and the Chinese have landed in Europe.
Speaker 5: Let's face it, they they are in their own home market.
They've actually kept kind of hands off, semi hands off North America, but Europe they've arrived and so and apparently everything I read suggests that the consumers and the reviewers like the products they see, and so they're able to sell not only evs but ice vehicles as well.
Speaker 4: There.
Speaker 2: Yeah, on a percentage basis byd sales were one hundred and forty percent or close to that.
Speaker 5: So they're eating the market share of these of these incumbent producers in Europe. And so it's not at all
surprising that they would be cutting back, trying to you would say, cut their way to prosperity.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, In fact, it isn't Stilantis looking at building leap motor cars at plants. No, no, not in Europe looking
at it.
Speaker 3: They're looking at kits.
Speaker 5: And the Canadian politicians don't like this at all because the employment is not high for that. But there it
looks like the plant in Zaragosa is the one that they've gotten they're focusing on in Spain, and they look like they're going to be doing an opal ev based on leap motor technology, which, frankly, what else can Stillantis do is it would it be smart for them at this point to start investing in new technology that This is why they bought leap Motor. This is why they
spent a billion and a half euros to have a twenty percent stake in Leap Motor, is so they wouldn't have to spend another ten billion to sort of reinvent electric technology and and and the vehicle that they're looking at is a typically European type value oriented vehicle, a small electric vehicle that will be very affordable. They're not
going to try to go to the mat with byd or Chi Lee probably with their more expensive vehicles. They're
going to try to offer a more value oriented vehicle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're at a point now where the legacy automakers are going to really retrench. You know, they've
written off tens of billions in EVY losses, they're spending more tens of billions on terrafs. Now we've got all
this uncertainty with this war, and so I mean they're essentially out of capital, and I mean they're not they can still go out and borrow, but interest rates are high.
And so I think we're going to see these automakers decide to just go buy technology rather than try to develop it in house.
Speaker 6: Well, you saw Forge just introduce the trans City in Europe, which is a fully electric van, but it's built by their partner GMC in China. So they're leveraging the Chinese
technology with a Ford brand that everyone in the commercial business knows and using that to broaden their commercial portfolio.
Speaker 3: In Europe.
Speaker 6: So it's a pretty smart move. A lot of folks
may not even know it's Chinese technology underneath, but it meets their needs from a business standpoint.
Speaker 4: So, I mean, what's your sense of how legacy makers can be competitive in what is clearly a changing world.
Speaker 6: Whether there's so many of them that are partnered up right now. You've got Mazda with Changan, You've got JLR
with Cherry, You've got BMW in Great Wall doing Minis, You've got Mercedes and Jeally doing smart, got vwxpang in China.
Speaker 3: It's a little different.
Speaker 6: Some of them are doing Chinese specific strategies, but some of these brands are going global, like the Transit City.
And it sounds like Stillans and Elite Motor want to do stuff for Europe, which is probably a good opportunity.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they'd ever actually build. You know,
at some point they might.
Speaker 6: Be looking to build Elite Motor engineered vehicle here somewhere in North America, which would bring affordable Chinese EV technology without the tariffs to the masses, although there's software and security issues involved.
Speaker 5: So what's their worst nightmare? Their worst nightmares? An democratic
president in twenty twenty eight. That will tell them, guess what,
We're going to restore all of this m all all of this legislation and regulation, and you guys have to be zero net zero by this date and they're going to have to figure out a way to spend that money again.
Speaker 4: So the aforementioned mister Farley of Ford said yesterday, quote, the whole Ford team has a ton of respect for these Chinese automakers. They're really leading the world in many
ways when you look at the technology, the costs, and the speed of what they're doing. But the reality is,
if you're an automaker today and you don't become a fit like the best of the Chinese, which we're doing with the Universal Electric Vehicle program and platform in the US, you aren't going to be around much longer. Should this
be sitting off alarm bells everywhere?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 4: Yeah, he did it a while ago.
Speaker 5: I mean, he's been very upfront and very frank, very candidate about his admiration for the Chinese auto industry, and I think the reason is because he wants to wake up his own organization. He's not going to try to
pretend that it's not real. It's not real and we've
got time and we.
Speaker 4: Can do this.
Speaker 5: He's saying to his own organizations, you've got to really step up to this and do it quickly.
Speaker 2: And at the same time he's telling the Trump administration, don't let any Chinese cars in. Yeah, not even tourists
from Canada or Mexico in a Chinese.
Speaker 6: What the rumors at Ford was looking up with byd or another Chinese automaker to discuss some sort of joint venture in the US.
Speaker 3: I don't know if those rumors have.
Speaker 6: All died out, but it sounds like when he was talking about the Chinese, he talked about them crossing borders, and it wasn't didn't sound like he was objecting to the Chinese building cars here.
Speaker 3: Wasn't clear about that.
Speaker 2: No, he's been clearer lately saying that to the Trump administration, if you're going to a lot him men, you have to force them to do a joint venture with a legacy automaker where they're a minority partner, just like the Chinese forced all the you know, the foreigners to come into their market.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I agree that it is alarm bells.
Speaker 6: I mean, and a lot of automakers have already recognized this, which is why they're reaching out for these partnerships.
Speaker 2: Look, you know JAMMA in Japan, you know the Japanese Automatic Automotive Manufacturers Association, you know, had a five alarm fire meeting going on with all the Japanese automakers saying, we got to get together and compete as an industry, not as individual companies. And they've established a seven step
program to try to get the Japanese auto industry to be much more competitive, one of which is borrowing ideas right from the Chinese. Commonize components across the industry, all
these commodity parts that the customer doesn't even know exists in the car, doesn't care about, doesn't identify, or stabblished brand identity.
Speaker 5: So you're saying they took the twelve step program and they made it more.
Speaker 3: I yes, I haven't saying that.
Speaker 6: I think the other wild card is internal combustion, because you mentioned before the new Chile hybrid system. They just
yes forty eight percent thermal industry a thermal efficiency, which is an industry best. And you know there's a lot
of folks when you talk to them about the Chinese and the auto industry, they're all worried about Chinese evs, but they now really really need to be worried about Chinese internal combustion.
Speaker 2: The leading internal combustion technology in the world right now is coming out of China. And everybody said, oh, you
know that this is why the Chinese went electric because they knew they could never catch up and they wanted to leap frog and blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: Well guess why they can't. Now they got ice too.
Speaker 2: And you know when you say it's and it's something like forty eight point four percent or forty eight point six, Formula one engines are fifty one percent. Now Formula one
is no cost. I think the engines are like ten
million bucks apiece. They throw everything in the kitchen sink
technology wise, ways, the money gen Okay, we're not going to get done by raising on this show. But what
I'm getting at is these mass production China and these are e Rev engines by the way, too, I'm not sure that you could get to forty eight percent in a full a pure ice you know, and duty cycle because once you go e Rev you can play a lot of tricks, you know. Yeah, limited rev range, a
lot more EGR, higher compression, ratio, et cetera. And that's
how they get this high thermodynamic efficiency. But think about it,
they're only a couple of percentage points or so off what a Formula one engine is with costs being almost no object.
Speaker 4: Isn't it shocking that what Farley is saying is that, like, the benchmark is not Mercedes, the benchmark is not BMW, the benchmark is not General Motors.
Speaker 3: The benchmark is the Chinese industry. It is.
Speaker 5: So he was driving a show me SU seven and he literally said, I didn't want to give it back.
He just said, I didn't want to give it back.
I saw my brother in law lives outside of Tel Aviv, and I saw his byd Attoes three. It's a nice vehicle.
I mean, I experienced it. It's really a nice vehicle.
Speaker 4: This is why they're selling like crazy.
Speaker 2: They're good vehicles with the leading edge technology in the world at very affordable.
Speaker 3: How does this happen?
Speaker 5: Well, remember we used to go at Cobbo Hall. They
were always in the basement. You go down there and
look at them and we'd kind of laugh at them and say, well, they're at least half a century behind, and.
Speaker 3: Worry about all funny and know, but.
Speaker 2: Here's getting to your point.
Speaker 3: Gary.
Speaker 2: You know, the Chinese spent a lot of time and money laying the groundwork. I mean we're talking fifteen years ago.
They had plans to dominate the EV segment. They went
out around the world, locking up supplies in lithium, rare earths, manganese, cobalt, all that kind of stuff. And there's a learning cycle too.
As you start to do these things, you make a lot of mistakes, and slowly but surely you refine and get better at that. That's sort of the history of
the auto industry, right. It takes a big problem and
it just starts chopping away at chopping away until it solves it. And then just about the time the Chinese
were hitting the inflection point a hockey stick on this learning curve, COVID hit and so nobody outside of China was traveling to China, and they didn't go there for at least three years, maybe closer to four. And when
China lifted the COVID restrictions, people started going back. Their
jaws dropped in that that time, when fifteen.
Speaker 4: Years they were and when did the EV one come out ninety nine?
Speaker 6: I think no, earlier ninety seven, I think ninety I'm trying to remember it was I was in business.
Speaker 3: No, we'd have been in the ninety ninety seven inch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, ninety seven inch. I think it was ninety seven.
So I far were to count on my fingers, that's more than fifteen years.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But here's the difference. Gary So has a national plan.
China has a national strategy. China has thrown two hundred
and fifty billion dollars of subsidies into this. What plan
does the US have?
Speaker 5: You know, we tend to look hero We tend to look at China as another flavor of communism, but we could look at it as another flavor of capitalism joined with Confucianism, in which pop is always right. When they
tell you what to do, you do it. If they
tell you to come to work two hours early, you don't go quit and look at it for another job somewhere.
Speaker 4: You come to work two hours early.
Speaker 5: So people are raised in China basically to listen for instructions and to follow instructions. They cherish stability, and their
brand of capitalism is very, very, very effective, and that's why we think think of them as a potential headgebond in the in the world and a potential rival to us is because our business well, in some things, a potential But I think I think the United States economy is still the number one economy in the world. How
long we're going to be the number one economy in the world is not all that clear. But they're moving
up very fast because of this brand, this flavor of capitalism, which is very effective.
Speaker 3: And it's all right, I was going to get your thought.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm also worth pointing out, in addition to the just the subjecties, China built in infrastructure to promote ev adoption in the country, which then drove the volumes, which then made the business cases a little better.
Speaker 3: And then for the companies that weren't succeeding, they obviously had the money to support them.
Speaker 6: They also did a lot to in the supply chain and also even getting Western talent learning from their Western partners along the way.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, learn still learning.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's still a lot of Americans and Europeans and the like working in China.
Speaker 3: But look, we got to take a quick break here, a little.
Speaker 2: Bit of capitalism at work here, because we've got to give a great shout out to our sponsor, Alex Partners.
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Speaker 3: All right, welcome back.
Speaker 2: We're talking all things automotive here, as we always do, and so Gary. One of the things that the Wall
Street Journal broke in the last day is that the Pentagon has gone to Mary Barra GM and Jim Farley at Ford and said, we want GM and Ford back as part of the arsenal and democracy. We want you
to start building weapons and ammunition again.
Speaker 4: What do you think, Well, I think this gets to the point that you just made before the break, like, what is our plan? What is the US industrial plan
in terms of what it's going to be doing with this auto industry. Now, I'm not so sure that making
shells for munitions is the right thing that the OEMs need right now. And I'm not so sure that building
half tanks or half tracks or whatever they're called is going to make us competitive with the Chinese. But I
don't know. Let me talk about this for a moment.
Speaker 5: From a strategic framework, A lot of shells, a lot of missiles, a lot of armaments, a lot of explosives of all kinds have bombs of all kinds have been expended in the last year in the Persian golf. We
have two carrier groups there. That means we're light in
the Pacific. If we don't protect ourselves as a country,
if we can't put a credible deterrent threat in front of in front of countries like China, then you can just kiss countries like Taiwan goodbye. There's no question that
they have. They've stated openly that they have designs on Taiwan,
and so we need this is the Chinese, this is the Chinese, so so so we need to We need to have a credible deterrent threat. It doesn't mean we
have to use it, but we have to know that our adversaries are ready for us to use it if we need to. Now, another sort of what does this
have to do with General Motors and Force.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you so.
Speaker 5: So the deputy the Deputy Secretary of Defense is a guy named Steve Feinberg who comes from Cerberus. He knows
that we need more capacity now to replenish our armories, and so he's negotiating with Lockheed. He's negotiating with Martin Marrietta,
He's negotiating with L three Harris, He's negotiating with all the big defense contractors, and he wants to be able to put as many competitors out there on the field as he can. He wants the main defense contractors to
see that GM and FOD can get in the game and undercut their business if they don't do what he wants at the price that he wants. Okay, should there's
one trillion dollar defense budget that's been proposed for this cut.
Speaker 3: Should they get in the game.
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 3: So should they get in the game?
Speaker 5: Should GM and FORD get in the game? I think
it depends on how persuasive the case is that is being made. Behind the scenes. We haven't heard anything yet
except this first bit of news that they've been approached.
We don't know the rationale behind it. Eventually, they're going
to have to explain this to their investors. They're going
to have to explain it to the shareholders. There's going
to be they're going to be quarter they'll be quarterly earnings reports, they'll be quarterly meetings with investors, and that question is going to come up with the analysts.
Speaker 4: So we're going to find out. It won't take that long.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot going on here. I'm not even
sure where to stay starting what I think this is also a danger for them because if they become well, actually GM already has a defense business called GM Defense and they're building this very light tactical vehicle that's built off the Chevy Colorado. And that's what the military is
interested in, is off the shelf stuff so you can get it done really fast. You know, military procurement right
now is seven to ten years. You know, it's way
too slow.
Speaker 5: And that's what that's what they're attacking in Washington. They
wanted to be much quicker.
Speaker 2: Much quicker, But it's their own rules that are holding them back more than anything else. But I also see
a danger for GM and Ford in this if they become known as military suppliers. I could see the Chinese saying, oh, no,
can't sell cars in our country if you're supplying weaponry to the US military.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure they're going to be able to sell cars in that country anyway in the future.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's the volume is lots a lot last year, right, they've bottomed out, And you know, the thing that I wonder about is is that Okay, you know, I understand they have factories. I understand they know manufacturing.
I get that. That's why it's very appealing to mister Feinberg.
And I think for our audience we should mention that he was behind when Service bought Chrysler, and that didn't work out so well for Chrysler. Worked out well for
mister Feinberg, but not for Chrysler. So I take his
approach the strain of something.
Speaker 5: Chrysler is still here, and that's more than many people in this town would tell you they deserve.
Speaker 4: So, Adam, I wonder, I mean, since you worked at an OEM and none of us did, is there is the possibility that there would be a loss of some focus on what the core business is by having to do something else. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Sure, I mean, you know, if you go back to World War Two. Building cars in World War Two is
a lot similar than it is today. And you know,
just as you can't flip a light switch and start building cars from China in the US, you can't flip a light switch and suddenly go from you know, cars to tanks, or cars to bombs, or cars to missiles. So,
especially because we don't know the length of this military need, you know, you don't want to flip the switch and then suddenly find out a week later, up we're at peace, So we don't really need this stuff anymore. So I
don't think any automaker wants to be caught at that extra military capacity. And then to your point about shareholders,
you know, what does Fortel folks if they've got to stop building fifty thousand super duties in order to accommodate the military, Because you know, that's obviously a huge money maker for them, So there's a lot of financial and operational challenges. For GM it would be little easier because
they do have a Defense Organization Order in place to maybe manage some of the requests from the government, But for other automakers it might be more different.
Speaker 2: But you know, if you go back to even the nineteen sixties through through the fifties, certainly Detroit was still, you know, part of the arsenal of democracy. I want
to say the Sterling Heights Chrysler plant was the Redstone rocket plant back into the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 5: Cruise missiles also, they may, I believe they made some kind of an engine for cruise missile.
Speaker 2: I don't think in Walled Lake we had Williams recess so that it.
Speaker 3: Was not part of.
Speaker 2: But you know, organizationally, they're going to keep this very separate.
You're going to have somebody, an executive in charge of that.
Now it may distract you know, the CEO and the CFO and the ce A COO a bit, but through the rest of the organization it's not going to be I don't think it would be effected much by getting into military.
Speaker 4: So we spent we spent much of the first half of the show talking about the threat of the Chinese automakers.
Can Jim Farley afford to keep afford to take his eye off of that competition, to have part of his organization doing something that has nothing to do.
Speaker 2: Look, when when your country comes knocking on the door and says mister CEO, we really need your help here.
And by the way, here's billions of dollars of government money to make it happen. It's hard to say no.
It'll be hard to say no on a patriotic basis, especially if you're the most iconic American brand that for it is, and it'll be hard to turn down a lot of money that the government's thrown at you.
Speaker 5: And it depends also on capacity utilization. I mean, if
you've got two or three plants that are empty right now, I mean Stillantis has a plant in Ontario. It's empty,
So why not use that rather than write it off?
Speaker 3: If you that's a good point.
Speaker 4: Well, I don't think we would be asking a plant in Canada to do things.
Speaker 3: For administration, that's right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's my point exactly.
Speaker 2: And I do have some well you wanted to talk about Nissan here.
Speaker 4: Yes, right, yeah, So Nissan made an announcement that it's going to be making itself fit for the future, which which will include reducing the number of vehicles it offers on a global basis and also by bringing AI to its vehicles going forward. Adam you you you track stuff
like this going on?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was you know, I watched the I watched the vision video where they talked about this. Nissan has
already been a leader in the automated driving with propilot, so it sounds like they're kind of leveraging all those learnings.
AI is very trendy, so it's AI Drive is apparently the new system. But they had some very aggressive goals
about ninety percent of their products having AI drive technology on in the long term. It didn't set a specific date,
but just making that democratizing that kind of technology, which is what we see the Chinese doing, sounds like a step in the right direction. Obviously, slimming up the portfolio
also makes sense. They're getting, you know, now that Fiel
economy regulations have been relaxed, they can get into body on frame vehicles. So they've got the new Exterra coming
out in two years, so they're excited about that. They've
got E Hybrid, which is kind of a unique system.
I haven't personally driven any of the E hybrid technology vehicles, but that'll that will give them a some what sounds like competitive technology here in the US. So plus, the
the CEO is a big fan of sports cars, so the Z car is here to stay. The GTR is
being worked on for a next generation and he'd like to bring some more stuff back, but he hasn't hinted at what that is. I think they said that Nissan
is the fastest growing brand over the past six months, so it sounds like some of the turnaround work is going going, but obviously there's a long way to go.
Speaker 3: And there were some unanswered questions there too, so.
Speaker 4: Dering what is it? Maybe you can help me with this,
but I don't question it.
Speaker 5: But I don't quite understand how a I actually helps automated driving. What what would AI do and how would
it be deployed in a way that could actually help.
Speaker 6: Driverless driverless I feel it would It would be synthesizing all the inputs from the various sensors to make smarter, faster decisions. So just as you know a lot of
automakers right now are putting AI in the vehicles to uh as like chat GPT. I actually just got an
upgrade to my Mini which now has proactive AI and the navigation.
Speaker 3: Which I have not had a chance to try out yet.
Speaker 6: But the idea that you can ask it for a coffee spot on the way home, just to make it smarter and more responsive. You know, a lot of the
if then computer systems that are out there or that were out there early on aren't as responsive, and so you want to be able to recognize if there's an accident, or if there's a person on the side of the road, or if there's a traffic light that's malfunctioning, and be able to respond more naturally and more quickly.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I think that's the key is in your user interface, being able to use natural language, not having to learn specific commands or have to repeat the address four times before it gets it right, that sort of thing.
But it also ties into the powertrain. So when JELI
announced this new hybrid in the last week or so that it's coming out with in Japan and they're really going after Toyota, I mean they're they're practically boasting that they're going to knock Toyota off as the leader in hybrid technology. They're using AI to uh use things like
ambient temperature, humidity, driving conditions, terrain that it's aware of through the NAV system to maximize how the powertrain works for ultimate efficiency. And that's how they're they're claiming these
these fantastic fuel economy ratings that they get, though I played around with the numbers a little bit and tried to convert it to EPA numbers, which I still think globally are the best, you know, real world numbers that you can go forward. And in the sedan that they
were quoting, it was one mile per gale and better than a Toyota Camry. In the suv it was about
four or five miles per gal and better than say, like a Toyota Highlander. So you know they're they're really
onto something I wouldn't in my opinion, at least if my numbers are right. I'm not saying they've taken some
massive leap forward above Toyota. But to get to your point,
Drona or your question, AI is part of that powertrain.
That's one of the things they really touted.
Speaker 4: And of course they'd say they're going to be knocking off Toyota. What would you say you're knocking off Forard or.
Speaker 2: Well you might say, hey, we're going to be with Toyota, but no, I mean the Chin And look, I can see why they're very proud of this, saying, look we got stuff that's better than the best Japanese automaker in hybrids.
Speaker 4: Well, I think we'll have to see how this plays out in production units, since Toyta is doing fairly well at least in this country in terms of the number of hybrids that's getting on the road, so they dominate.
Speaker 5: Well, Jamie has been doing a very good job keeping a low profile of having this this backdoor plant in South Carolina, which which basically is a Chinese plant. Let's
face it, that's right, and it's there, and it's going to crank out what foll those and.
Speaker 4: Well, look all sales are taking yeah pollstars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean evoll, those sales have really fallen off, right, so there's even more capacity in that plant. Yeah, I'm
getting at And Jilia has talked openly of putting the Zeger and Lincoln Co brand cars in that plant, right, And how do you stop that?
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's not really Still the software and the government software and harbor restrictions there is seen to be a barrier unless Jilli can figure out a way to essentially us source all of that to prevent the data from going on.
Speaker 2: And they will yeh, I mean, you know, I go talk with their head of comms at the CEO show, and he said, look, we sell cars all over the world.
We meet all the local specifications and regulations. Will do
the same thing in the US.
Speaker 4: You know, we didn't talk about what we're driving this week.
I'm driving Involvo V sixty plug in hybrid, a wagon and it is it is one of the best cars I have driven.
Speaker 3: And number two, it's beautiful. It's beautiful.
Speaker 2: I mean the lines on that car. Yes, I drove
it about a month ago, and I totally agree that one I got off there it probably is, but it's Yeah.
The only thing I would say is, as much as I like the car, it's a little dated technologically. There
is one of the older vehicles in their portfolio, right right, So come a little slack. No, I will cut them slack,
but I'm just saying, you know, for example, you have to plug your phone in if you want to use the NAV system. It's not wireless. And uh so there's
little things like that that you go, oh, okay, this is you know, a decade ago technology.
Speaker 4: So so Adam like, here's Volvo has this car that he and I both greatly admire, and I'm sure others do as well. Yet Volvo's doing nothing. Would bringing in
brands like Lincoln Co and Zeker just star well Pole Stars already sort of here, sort of, isn't Isn't that like a tremendous expense to make the to make, you know, people even know that these things are there, brands.
Speaker 3: Well the good you know.
Speaker 6: The the returning Volvo CEO has, for one thing, said maybe at one point, I think the previous CEO said there really wasn't room for wagons in Polo's future, which is, you know, wagons are part of Volvo's heritage.
Speaker 3: The new CEO, returning CEO says, maybe there are. Yeah, yeah,
I thought that.
Speaker 4: I thought he's they're looking for a replacement for him.
Speaker 2: No, he's going to retire in a year.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but he at least has said there is opportunities to do wagon. We'll see what the new guy says,
but I think he's recognized that that wagons are part of Volo's heritage. And the fact that Volvo is now
staying in the internal combustion part of the business means they will be updating their internal combustion portfolio, which obviously at the moment is a little on the old side because for a while those cars are all going to be gone by twenty thirty, so there's there's some shifting going on in the brand. But I think there are
some opportunities for them. The EX sixty as an EV
looks to be super state of the arts, competitive with any of the new BMW and Mercedes evs.
Speaker 3: If they can.
Speaker 6: Carry that level of sophistication over to the next XC sixty, which I think is around the corner as an internal combustion vehicle, that should put them in pretty good shape.
Speaker 3: So it would be.
Speaker 4: Better for them to keep with Volvo Rether than bring in others.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think, yeah, I mean the amount of money to build brand recognition here in the US, and then then you get the question of is it a franchise, is the direct sales?
Speaker 3: And then are there lawsuits or not lawsuits?
Speaker 6: I think maybe to focus on a brand that's got some established recognition might be a smarter move.
Speaker 5: What about this gas electric hybrid that Julie's so proud of?
Speaker 5: I mean that could be that that could be their hallmark if they really could put that into these vehicles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, Julie's on a roll. They've surpassed byd and
sales at least I think that was true for the first quarter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in China I'm talking about So these.
Speaker 2: Guys are on a roll. Remember they own almost ten
percent of Mercedes, Bounce too, and they've got this wide portfolio of brands. In fact, they have Lotus, They've got
the London tab Company, the trucks.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Have you asked Leishu Fou to be on your show yet?
Speaker 2: No? I would love to get Leshou Fu on here,
but I am sure how good.
Speaker 3: Is English is? No, though he's probably busy direct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did see him speak one it's in China and in the Chinese audience kept giggling, and finally asked one of the Chinese people who spoke English sitting next to me, why.
Speaker 3: Is everybody laughing? He says, he talks like.
Speaker 2: A hic from the farm.
Speaker 4: You know, you know he's talking if we started out making refrigerator parts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, he's he's they said, he talks like the Beverly Hillbillies.
Speaker 4: That's funny.
Speaker 3: But the guy is brilliant.
Speaker 2: Obviously, he's put this empire together and it's a privately owned it's not government owned, is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 3: It's publicly traded.
Speaker 5: So they have the same bias against regional accents in China that we do in the United States.
Speaker 4: Right, that's funny.
Speaker 2: You should ask Sean any good questions from the audience.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we got some good questions from the audience.
Speaker 3: Here, so highly have bad ones.
Speaker 8: Mike the car Geek said, Alan Clark seems to have taken a more visible role with the Universal EV platform.
Doug Fields may have been setting him up to take the baton.
Speaker 6: He feels like it wasn't Alan now in charge of advanced like vehicle development or some kind of title like that, so it obviously proved his chops. And so if there
is something else besides the UEV that's coming. Because UEV
only can source basically compacted in midsized vehicles, I don't think it's going to be flexible enough to do like an Explorer replacement. So if you wanted to do an
Explore EV a larger three row, you would need a different set of hardware. So maybe that's the next thing
to come out of the skunk work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Mike mccargi good point there that maybe doug Field was grooming Alan to take this because I hadn't thought of that. This announcement that came out yesterday just
didn't happen, you know, that afternoon. You know, they didn't say, hey,
let's do a reorganization. And so that's a good point.
Speaker 3: Doug knew this was.
Speaker 2: Coming, and he is laying in the groundwork for Alan to take.
Speaker 3: A step up. Well, but I mean.
Speaker 4: There was Doug, there was Alan Ellen came from Tesla.
Everybody's like, ooh, came from Tesla.
Speaker 3: What great thing he leaves.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I I think you think that there is more thought behind it than there may be. Was
It just seemed to be like that would be the natural progression. And then plus, you know you want to
hang onto a Tesla guy. It's like, oh I got
a Tesla guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, what else? Shine?
Speaker 8: Mike had another what I find interesting question, would doug Field have made a better CEO for Lucid?
Speaker 4: All right, so Lucid named a man named Sylvia Napoli as its next CEO. He came from a company named Shindler.
Shindler makes elevators in moving walkways, very different for cars, you think, but they do move at least, and there's some electricity involved.
Speaker 3: Good point.
Speaker 6: I know they kept the the interim CEO is the COO, so at least there's still some continuity.
Speaker 2: Ma Winterhoff I think is his name, right. Look, if
LUCID does well, sales go up, money's coming in. This
new guy, Napoli is probably good to go. And if
that doesn't happen, maybe doug Field will up at loses.
Speaker 4: So I looked and I saw that the cumulative loss at LUCID so far has been fifteen point six billion dollars.
I somehow think that that's probably not a good place to go.
Speaker 5: So that's that's a place that is largely a creature of the Saudi Arabian Fund, which has just said that they're getting tired of losing money at live golf. So
I wonder if they're getting tired of all of these, you know, even very rich oil sheiks get tired of losing money afterwards.
Speaker 3: It's a deep well, but if not, bottom line, it's not bothering.
Speaker 4: That's right, very good point, that's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, anything else sh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And back to the CEO question.
Speaker 5: Don't forget Sergio Marcioni didn't do he wasn't a car executive either before he came in.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, that's a good point.
Speaker 4: Did his did his thing?
Speaker 3: Neither is Ai.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this guy can get the Cosmos launched to go smoothly.
We got six months plus for that to happen. That'll
be the acid test.
Speaker 4: But we've already established that EV sales are.
Speaker 3: Well, they're leveling off. Well, we'll have to see.
Speaker 6: There's a lot of a lot of questions about doom and gloom and how deep and whether there's a rebound.
Speaker 2: You know, look or still on the hype down cycle on EV's I think they're they're going to come back.
Speaker 5: So what about We hadn't talked about this specifically, but I'm interested in what you think about E revs and this is going to be a big feature of the market in this country.
Speaker 6: I mean, you have the same complexities as a plug in hybrid, but you do have a vehicle that drives more like an EV right, and you've got the back up and less concern about range anxiety. So we're still
waiting to see the Ram teen hundred REV, which is their e REV, which still hasn't been officially launched price yet, and there'll be a Jeep wagon air version of that as well, So that'll be an interesting litmus test in the full sized truck and the full.
Speaker 4: Size has Ford or GM talked about.
Speaker 6: Yeahs Yeah, for the next FE fifty, Lightning is going to be an e REV instead of an EV. GM
is not publicly talked about e revs GMASG hasn't even committed to hybrid's publicly, aside from the fact they said they're looking at it.
Speaker 3: So GM has evs.
Speaker 6: And and Toronic com Mustrian engines and whatever's going on in between, is anyone's.
Speaker 2: Guess, John anything else?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 8: Yeah, Sewn meadows kind of times in on this EV thing.
He says, as usual, American manufacturers are backing off EV's when they should be leaning in. They had to play
catch up. Now they're going to fall further behind the world.
Speaker 4: See.
Speaker 2: But I think that ignores the fact like this for UEV platform, and I know GM's working on low cost evs. Yes,
Ford scrapped the Lightning and the transit.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Are they still building more keys, Yes, they still are. Okay,
those were first generation, rushed to the market as fast as possible and now and they lost billions on it, and even GM with its Ultium platform it didn't work out and they've lost billions.
Speaker 3: But they're not given up.
Speaker 2: I mean they're they're scrapping the programs that are losing money.
They're going to be coming out with new programs that they believe will make money now.
Speaker 5: But now they have to hedge very carefully because a lot of their capitalists gone correct and they're really not sure about the next wave of regulation. They don't know
what's going to happen, absolutely right, absolutely right, so very it's not an enviable position to be and if you're a strategist at one of these companies right.
Speaker 3: Now, that's right.
Speaker 6: But I would say that Stilandis we still have their EV future now is part of the muddiest because you know, GM is still investing in all tim they've got new battery chemistries, they've got new electrical architectures or does a UEV so Landa still has all their multienergy platforms.
Speaker 3: But that's as much as we know.
Speaker 2: But look, Stilantis is a financial basket case, right right.
Speaker 5: They didn't lose the money on EV's they lost some money that's.
Speaker 2: Gone, you knows right now bringing back the HEMI engine, you know, doing stuff.
Speaker 4: With cheap you know, doing stuff with the Chinese exactly right.
Speaker 2: So, I mean this is an industry that is cash poor right now, that is capital poor, and uh so, you know, I don't expect to see Stilantis making any big investments into EV's until it gets its financial house in order, and that's going to take a number of years.
One more seane.
Speaker 8: Uh yeah, going back to your arsenal of democracy, discussion shifted into high says Mound Road tank plant, and then Mike the car geek chimed in Chrysler Sterling Heights made rockets. Yes,
tank plant on Mound was also run by Chrysler, says, I believe that the.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, Look I was in the Mountain Road plant.
It made the Abrams M one. We had back then
two tank plants in this country, the Mound Road one, which no longer makes tanks, hasn't made it forever. We
have one tank plant in this country that makes m ones, and that's in Lima, Ohio. And if that were ever
to go down, we would have zero tank production.
Speaker 5: It's fair to say that the tank is one of the more irrelevant weapons of today's warfare. Believe me, you
have to if you're going to open a plant to make something drones. Make drones, yeah, make drones.
Speaker 2: No, And obviously everybody's focused on that right now. But yeah,
you know, just quickly, we'll finish the show with this.
Speaker 8: Uh.
Speaker 2: The Arsenal of Democracy was years in the making. You know,
everybody thinks Pearl Harbor hit and uh Detroit stopped making cars two months after that, and then switched everything over to war production. In fact, and I know this, Uh,
Detroit started planning for wartime production in nineteen thirty seven, nineteen thirty seven, nineteen thirty eight, nineteen thirty nine, nineteen forty.
They had been working on this for four years. Jimmy
Doolittle was assigned to Detroit by the US Army Air Force to help Detroit figure out how it could start making planes or components for planes. So when Pearl Harbor happened,
they knew it was coming. They saw what was happening
in Europe. They had laid the plans for four years
before finally Uncle Sam said go stop making cars, start making weaponry.
Speaker 3: So they didn't slip a light switch. They did not
get up.
Speaker 4: And actually, if you think about it's closer to five years because Pearl Harbor was in December.
Speaker 2: No, you're absolutely right. But anyway, with that little bit
of history, I think we need to wrap up the show.
But Adam, Bernard, darn Levine, fabulous having you guys on the show. Great conversation. Gary, this was really good and
let's do another one next week. Michelle, want to thank
all of you for having tuned in.
Speaker 1: Auto Line After Hours is brought to you by ALEX Partners.
For more than forty years, we have helped companies and their stakeholders around the world harness opportunity, overcome challenges, and achieve outsized outcomes. ALEX Partners when it really matters,
About this episode
Ford’s EV chief Doug Field’s departure sparks debate on whether Ford is fixing a risky handoff from Skunk Works to legacy operations. The panel breaks down Ford’s new end-to-end product-creation organization under COO Kumar Galhotra and what it could mean for the Universal EV platform and an upcoming mid-size electric pickup (Ranchero). They also weigh EV market uncertainty, charging/infrastructure progress, and the growing threat from Chinese automakers—plus how legacy OEMs are increasingly partnering to buy technology. The discussion widens to U.S. “arsenal of democracy” talk, where GM/Ford may be asked to support defense production, and ends with Nissan’s AI push and Jili’s hybrid/AI claims targeting Toyota.
TOPIC: Ford Reorganization PANEL: Doron Levin, Seeking Alpha; Adam Bernard, AutoPerspectives; Gary Vasilash, shinymetalboxes.net; John McElroy, Autoline.tv
