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Andy Wilman Opens Up: Clarkson’s Producer Reveals Top Gear, Grand Tour & Farm Secrets
Andy Wilman Opens Up: Clarkson’s Producer Reveals Top Gear, Grand Tour & Farm Secrets
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About this episode
Andy Wilman, the mastermind behind Top Gear and The Grand Tour, shares his journey from humble beginnings to producing some of the most iconic automotive shows in television history. He reflects on the pressures of fame, the creative process, and the unexpected success of Clarkson's Farm. Wilman discusses the dynamics of working with Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond, and James May, revealing the behind-the-scenes challenges and the magic that made these shows resonate with audiences. His candid insights into the highs and lows of television production offer a unique perspective on the industry.
Topics:
BBC
Ben Collins
car culture
exhaust
Freddy Tavarish
horsepower
motoring journalist
performance car magazine
pickup truck
stretch limos
Get your finance quote here with Lillian Stanley -https://calculator.lillianstanley.co.uk/journey/vehicle?utm_source=Benfowler08
For the first time, Andy Wilman — the creative mind behind Top Gear and The Grand Tour — sits down for a deep, unfiltered conversation about building one of the most iconic shows in television history.
From his early insecurities and failed acting career to shaping global motoring culture with Jeremy Clarkson, Richard Hammond, and James May, Wilman reveals the accidents, chaos, and creative genius that turned Top Gear into a worldwide phenomenon.
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Technical
Too Afraid to Ask
Car
Dodge Journey
"...ll, things go wrong and we'll get to that in this journey. My point is you come in the van off, Mr. Willma..."
The Dodge Journey is a type of car called a crossover SUV, which means it's a mix between a car and an SUV. It's designed to be roomy and comfortable, making it great for families or anyone who needs extra space for stuff. People talk about it because it's affordable and practical for daily driving.
The Dodge Journey is a midsize crossover SUV that was produced from 2008 to 2020. It is known for its spacious interior, versatility, and affordability, making it a popular choice for families and those needing extra cargo space. The Journey's significance lies in its ability to offer a blend of practicality and comfort for everyday use.
Term
performance car magazine
"So he's a motoring journalist and he's making his name on performance car magazine and he's doing his reviews for local papers with this agency."
A performance car magazine is a type of publication that reviews fast and powerful cars. They help car lovers learn more about how these cars perform and what makes them special.
Performance car magazines focus on reviewing high-performance vehicles, providing insights into their capabilities, handling, and specifications. These publications often cater to automotive enthusiasts looking for detailed information on sports cars and performance vehicles.
Term
motoring journalist
"So he's a motoring journalist and he's making his name on performance car magazine and he's doing his reviews for local papers with this agency."
A motoring journalist is someone who writes about cars and the car industry. They review different vehicles and share their thoughts with readers.
A motoring journalist specializes in writing about cars, automotive news, and the automotive industry. They often review vehicles, report on automotive events, and provide insights into trends in the car market.
Term
exhaust
"Four, five, eights exhaustors sounding like a burning bear."
The exhaust is a part of a car that helps get rid of gases from the engine. It can also change how the car sounds when it runs, making it sound more powerful or sporty.
The exhaust system in a vehicle is responsible for directing exhaust gases away from the engine and reducing harmful emissions. It also plays a crucial role in enhancing engine performance and can affect the sound of the vehicle, often giving it a distinctive growl or roar.
Concept
car culture
"...I must find my niche to make sort of people-y car culture-type features. I would start writing. So I would go out at Top Gear Magazine..."
Car culture is all about the way people enjoy and connect with cars. It includes things like car shows, racing events, and the friendships that form around a shared love for vehicles.
Car culture refers to the social and cultural aspects surrounding automobiles, including the lifestyle, values, and communities that form around car ownership and appreciation. It encompasses everything from car shows and racing to automotive journalism and enthusiast gatherings.
Company
Top Gear Magazine
"...I would start writing. So I would go out at Top Gear Magazine. I'd go out on Safari to LA..."
Top Gear Magazine is a magazine about cars that features reviews, stories, and news related to the automotive world. It's connected to a famous TV show about cars.
Top Gear Magazine is a well-known automotive publication that covers a wide range of topics related to cars, including reviews, features, and automotive culture. It is associated with the popular BBC television show 'Top Gear'.
Term
stretch limos
"...the huge stretch limos were becoming a thing and nobody had really seen them..."
Stretch limos are long luxury cars that can carry more people than a regular car. They're often used for parties or special events.
Stretch limousines, or stretch limos, are luxury vehicles that have been extended in length to accommodate more passengers. They are often used for special occasions such as weddings, proms, and corporate events.
Term
pickup truck
"...that shake with the pickup truck that's got bedrooms in it. There's some mental stuff in the world in there..."
A pickup truck is a type of vehicle that has a separate open area in the back for carrying things. They're great for transporting items and can also carry people.
A pickup truck is a light-duty truck that has an open cargo area with low sides and a tailgate. They are popular for their versatility and ability to carry both passengers and cargo.
Brand
BBC
"...Jezza gets his first solo gig at the BBC, which is Clarkson's Motor World..."
The BBC is a major broadcasting organization in the UK that makes TV shows and radio programs, including ones about cars.
The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) is a public service broadcaster in the United Kingdom known for producing a wide range of television and radio programs, including the popular automotive show 'Top Gear'.
Car
Fiat 500
"...more importantly, then a Fiat bring out a Fiat 500 twin cylinder with like, you know,..."
The Fiat 500 is a small car from Italy that's popular for city driving because it's easy to park and maneuver.
The Fiat 500 is a small city car produced by the Italian manufacturer Fiat, known for its compact size and stylish design.
Car
Ford Fiesta
"...or that fiesta, one litre fiesta. I remember the trip to Chernobyl in like one litre. Yeah,..."
The Ford Fiesta is a small and affordable car made by Ford, great for driving around town and getting good gas mileage.
The Ford Fiesta is a subcompact car produced by Ford, known for its affordability, efficiency, and fun driving experience.
Term
horsepower
"...with like, you know, sod all horsepower but the engine's tiny or that fiesta, one litre fiesta...."
Horsepower is a way to measure how powerful an engine is. The higher the horsepower, the faster and stronger the car can be.
Horsepower is a unit of measurement for power, commonly used to describe the power output of engines in cars.
Car
Suzuki Liana
"...drive one of the original Suzuki Lianas head to head against another youtuber..."
The Suzuki Liana is a small car that was made by Suzuki. It's known for being budget-friendly and practical for everyday use.
The Suzuki Liana is a compact car that was produced by Suzuki from 2001 to 2007. It is known for its practicality and affordability, making it a popular choice in various markets.
Company
Ben Collins
"...instructed by what was the ecstic Ben Collins and i remember with my friend..."
Ben Collins is a well-known driver who used to be a character called the Stig on the Top Gear show. He is famous for his driving skills and car knowledge.
Ben Collins is a professional driver and television presenter, best known for being the Stig on the BBC's Top Gear. He has extensive experience in motorsport and automotive entertainment.
Company
Freddy Tavarish
"...my friend freddy tovaris who's a car rebuilder from america he's rebuilding one at the minute..."
Freddy Tavarish is a YouTuber who makes videos about fixing and rebuilding cars. He shares his experiences and projects with his audience.
Freddy Tavarish, known as Tavarish, is a popular automotive YouTuber and car builder. He is recognized for his entertaining content that often involves rebuilding and restoring cars.
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I could see it coming that we were going to crash and burn one way or another.
What was the angriest you ever were at Clarkson during the Top Gear days? Was it the day it all
come to an end? Guess what? Takes you Mr. Willman. The godfather of Top Gear, Andy Willman.
I'm a bit of an orchestra conductor. I've got to make sure all the bits go together. We kind of
just plowed along with our own path going right. One week it's everyone falls over and catches fire.
Next week it's supercars in the Alps.
Top Gear that had been taken off air and died on its arse, we were supposed to make that
a watchable show. None of us had ambition for this show. I had no plan, no future.
And you weren't happy?
So we're drained, we're done. I'm on antidepressants, I'm screwed. We all got our own solo project
deal with Amazon and they said to Jeremy what would you like to do because I'm thinking about
life on my farm and if I had a quid for every Amazon executive when can you talk him out of that
please? And he was like I don't blame them. He was like I'm crapping myself that this is going
to be any good. After a couple of weeks I got, sorry no I'm done, I don't, it's not going to work,
I don't want to do it. So I quit. Andy, I want to begin our chat today with a thing with one of these.
What is it? Now this, don't open it, but this is a simple envelope. Something that barely anyone
gets excited about. Letters in envelopes normally contain bad news. However growing up watching
Top Gear they'd often contain a challenge that would send me and my late father into fits of
laughter and they usually came from a chap called Mr. Wilmer. How old are you when you watch Top Gear?
Eight or nine? Right so that's when you started, eight or nine. Do you know we had kids the last
sort of series of the Grand Tour working in the office who were eight or nine when we were
talking about making you old when they're there. Going yeah we used to talk about that in the
playground and you're like what? Gen Z's as you call them. Are you kiddie fiddlers? Oh no you actually
were children at school like sort of thing. So yes thank you for making me feel old. Mr. Wilmer
was Grand Tour. Gold envelope, that's not there, was Top Gear. But I get your point I'm not going
to bugger up your envelope. I get your point that things got handed by the the office, the team,
the production and that was me. Well I know you'd appeared on camera for the show at various points
before that occasionally back in the late 90s. However two of you are like me you were a man
Mr. Wilman that was almost as elusive as the Stig. Bandy in your own words who are you and what do
you do? Well yeah I'm you won't have watched Minder, Arthur Daley's wife, you never saw her
indoors. It's the same sort of deal but I am always supposed to be behind the camera and helping out
the making of the show. Somebody's got to like run the thing, somebody's got to run the ship.
There is a great team on either show, there's Jeremy Rich and James up at the front and then
I guess I'm a bit of an orchestra conductor, that'll be one way of looking at it. I've got to make
sure all the bits go together so there's that job of running things and then I've got creative input
too and the creative input was always on both shows in the edit which I found I was good at.
So if we were a band, let's say Jeremy, Richard, James, Lee vocals, guitar, drums, bass, everything
else, I would have been the producer in the studio not a producer on TV. I'd be the guy in the studio,
I'd take all their rushes, whatever they shoot and then I could make it into the finish film,
you know, that's got to fit the time and everything. So like a producer takes, you know,
all the backing vocals, all the guitars, all everything and actually mixes it,
engineers it into a song, that's kind of what I would do creatively. The rest of the time
was running the office, making sure it worked and ran. Which is a leader's role and the reason I say
that's because I go on to this point before getting to the question which is I've been fortunate enough
to sit both Ben Collins and Richard Porter in that seat opposite me who have described you as
their boss which you were. I'm third. And I've also had Izzy Hammond in that seat opposite who
recalls the times that you would have to call her and her mother when Richard had spun off a cliff
over the years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we know of course that Jeremy would refer to you on camera
as Mr. Willman, he was playing as the big boss. Yeah. However, when I read the first couple of
pages of your book, I've actually circled and underlined a few different things that you've
said in there. One was describing yourself as having modest ambition when you started Top Gear
and that there was no grand battle plan that you weren't skilled enough. And in your 20s,
you're actually a glass half full because insecurity kept knocking it over. Now that
doesn't sound like the person that I would imagine to become a leader. Does it to you?
Well, that's true. And I think you become a leader by default. It's like somebody's got to do the
leading and I found I was good at it. I could keep an office running. I think in there I refer to
myself so I copied David Brent that it's like I like the way that David Brent and we know he's
a twat in the office, but I like the way he tried to make the office a bit theatrical.
Sort of it's the place where you have to spend all your working day, all the best parts of your day
to try and make it something. I found I could do that. I could make the place
good. And I could protect an office from BBC or Amazon or whoever. As for the insecurity,
yes, full of it. But then again, I've not met anyone in television who isn't good.
Who's not full of insecurity because you're always looking over your shoulder about
is it all going to be over? Is this what you've done? Is it good enough? Can it ever be good
enough and so on and so on. So insecurity rams everything through fear of failure rather than
desire for success. Couple that with the point about modest ambition. None of us
had ambition for this show to those shows to become this. It genuinely was. We were on wages
and we wanted to make in 2002. Top Gear that had been taken off air and died on its ass,
we were supposed to make that a watchable show again. That was it. So there's a nice thing
then starts to happen because we don't have that ambition to make this blockbuster Guinness Book
of Records show that's watched by kids and everybody else. When it starts to happen,
it happens by accident. There are so many, I mean that thread, you probably sort of see it in the
book. I hope you do that things are accidents. Specials are accidents. The stick is born out
of panic and so on and so on. Magic. Those things are like, we don't plan them. So when they happen,
they're all the better for it. And I think it makes you last longer. And I think the viewers
like it because they see it. They live it. We were a show that got under people's skin. I'm proud
enough to be able to say that. We weren't just something amazing you watch and then walk away
from. People were like, it's my top gear but it belongs to me. That vibe. Did you feel that with
your dad? Yeah. 100%. But what I get fascinated about people is when you rise to the top and when
you create something that you weren't expecting to and then it goes on for a period of years,
all you get is praise, praise, praise, praise, praise. A lot of the time from the outside,
well, things go wrong and we'll get to that in this journey. My point is you come in the van
off, Mr. Willman, you're a legend, you're a legend at this point with everything that you've
grown. But if I took the guy that thought like that in his 20s and sat him opposite me right now
and explained everything that you've done, stories of that book, what would he react like? What would
I thought he was going to be like a builder or didn't know what he was going to be? I had no plan,
no future. And you weren't happy? Not really, no. Not really. I mean,
Jeremy were mates. Like everyone in the 20s, you can put off the big shit life is coming down the
road and I've got to make something. You can put that off by going right, we'll go back to the pub
and I'll get some money and then I can spend that and that'll get me through the weekend. You've
got a kind of short termism. Do you think that's different now though in the people that you see
coming to the office kind of under pressure to get that done sooner? I just think it's harder to work
in TV. So if that's what you're meaning, like what people in their 20s coming in? I think people
saying that by the time that you were in that position, a lot of people, I'd say my age in their
20s now feel like they have to have it all figured out by 26 to 28, rather than still trying to
figure out what's going on. So why do you think that? Why do you think you've got to have it figured
out? I just think because you talk about TV being that big influential factor that you went into
TV. That was your path and everything you knew and therefore was TV. It wasn't a path but ended up,
yeah. But now for us, it's dominated by social media as well as TV, but TV can be YouTube,
it can be a 20-minute long clip on TikTok, it can be something else. And there's other influence
in there, like pressure and seeing how well everyone are doing in a comment section that's
very visible that I think makes people that are kind of sub 30 now feel like they have to have it
a bit more put together and figured out quicker. Because the comment section is stronger, more
vociferous. Yeah. Yeah, we never got that. We used to get letters. I remember reading them out
because you'd have sections on the original early top game where you'd read out the
letters and the viewer. Were they all real? Yeah, the letters were real. Yeah. I mean,
Mr. Needham, we made him up. Or if we wanted to introduce film, if we had a stupid premise for a
film, like I think, yeah, like when we were driving cars behind a 747 to see which one,
with its engines on full tilt to see which car would blow over the furthest. It was good to
start with. We've had a letter from a reader saying, what's the best car for driving? But
you know, we hadn't had that letter, obviously. That was just to try and make our show a bit
like one of those consumer shows on the BBC, like Watch Dog or something like that. So that was a
take there. But comments, yes, it is a very interesting point you make because we were
isolated from them. You had viewing figures. You had complaints. But you never really got
anybody until the internet really sort of got going in the forum groups. You never got people
really analyzing what we did. See, I wouldn't really bother with it when they did podcasts
that I went out and recorded, say my first 20, my first 30 in year one.
I was absolutely smashed in the podcast. You're interrupting your guests all the time.
Stop looking over to the left, looking in the eye. And I would see them. And I'm very fortunate that
I think I've got a pretty good outlook to actually look at them and go, ah, we've got a fucking point
to be honest with you. I should probably stop doing that. Or ignore the ones that you don't want to,
you feel secure enough not to. But I feel like by facing up to a lot of those negative comments,
it's got me along the ground quicker. But do you think in the team that you worked with and
especially the three, do you think if they had a comment section that it would have got under
their skin a little bit more because of those insecurities at the start?
Apparently what day it was. Honestly, if you'd have seen us in action, we could go
literally, we could blow hot and cold on comments. And that's, I think because we all live in insecurity.
So one day we could go, oh, there's a letter saying we're doing too much cocking about,
you know, we're not doing like proper car stuff, we're deserting the car, the car fans.
I think they're right, we need to do some car stuff, you know, like get proper cars,
and find a nice road in the Alps and do that. The perfect road trip. And then you watch Tripp and
go, you watch film go, ah, not many explosions in there. Oh shit, we need some more cocking about,
you know, you just bounce backwards and forwards. But overarchingly, it didn't, it didn't drive as
I say, something that popped in, got in our brains for half an hour and then left and then in the
main we carried on with our, with our, with our rotor of trying to balance cocking about with a
proper car show and so on and so on, which we knew it, we could keep that going.
What else? The figures were there, the viewing figures were there, so you're like overarchingly,
when they start getting big and it's a car show, you actually, you can go mad second guessing which
way you should take your show. If you're getting suddenly, we wanted three and now suddenly we're
getting six million. If you start to try and analyze who's happy within that and who wants what
within that, you would go mental. So we kind of just plowed along with our own path going right,
one week it's, everyone falls over and catches fire, next week it's super cars in the Alps and we
just try and be, and that's quite, what can I say, it's quite binary what we did in the end,
that was not rocket science, what we got up to. You mentioned there though, cocking about but a
bit of like cracking on with it. Was that you at school growing up with Jeremy? Because I've heard
Jeremy talk before about Adrian Newey and I've also heard you talk there about how
Adrian would have been the perfect kid doing absolutely everything right in school and you
and Jeremy maybe weren't. But which one is like the multi-multi-multi-millionaire most successful?
You know, it's like those like nerds in Silicon Valley that we all go, oh you twat, I would have
like bullied you at school and he's got the super yacht. Bezos. You know, they've got the, yeah,
they've got the private jet, you know, and that kind of stuff and they're all, and the
stones are playing at their private party and they were the ones who were like with circuit boards.
That's really interesting just to ask you that because you obviously spend so much time
around people that enrich your brain, creatives, people that you can sit down with and let your
brain breathe and you can go out and laugh and fun and you're consumed in a bubble of comfort
and what you're talking about there is looking up, even at your level, which tens of thousands of
people listening to this today will be thinking, oh my god, if I could get to producing one of the
greatest motor and shows in history, bringing that team together and earning a lot of money in the
process and then carrying it on with the Grand Tour and then also doing things like Clarkson's
farm, et cetera, and still keeping that train going. They would see that as so high up the tower
of success, but do you still feel like even when you get to this position, you guys are all still
looking, oh yeah, but we could have been if we'd have just got ourselves sorted even further up.
Even further up. Does it ever stop? No, we are absolutely, our success surprise does and continued
to and we would get used to something like big viewing figures. You'd get used to the Guinness
Book of Records saying you'd process it, you know, but we always thought the thing that,
again, I cover it in there, the thing that is like the nagging at the back of your mind is
finishing on your own terms. You start to look to the end, which in TV is like, I don't know any
other business where that is a thing, where you go maybe racing drivers, do you take another year's
contracts and fall down the teams and you're not doing as well, but I like the life I'm going to
show. We had, I'm going to keep my thread here, we had, we processed the success. The thing that
kept us honest was maintaining it and then ending it at the right time, ending it at the time of
our choosing. Once you start doing that, I don't think you start going, right, what are we going
to do next? What are we going to do next? I think to go what we're going to do next, we would have
to become TV magnets, not like the track metal, but MA, G, N, A, T, E, S. Those people like Simon
Cowell or Mark Burnett who think up formats that are sellable and you sit back and the money comes
in while you sleep. You know, Mark Burnett makes the apprentice and trade as survivors and stuff,
a survivor and things like that and not trade. To survive, you've got Simon with all his stuff.
They plan that. They plan a format that can be then the same in Germany, the same in France,
Italy, America, England, everywhere. And we never, we always just made our own show.
So once you do that, once you realize that you are the component, you're like, you stay
instead of becoming the Savoy, you stay what they call a boutique hotel. Really nice,
but you limit your growth. You cannot grow any more than if it doesn't involve us.
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this video. Do you think that's a case in point of saying that even though Top Gear is a brand and
was franchised off to Australia and America? Can I use that word? Yeah. It didn't necessarily have
the same recipe and spice and magic of the UK version. Is that because it wasn't as repeatable
because it was the people in the process coming up with the creator? Yeah, I mean, we never had a...
If you've got something like Strictly or X-Factor or what have you, the format is so strong that you
can just put a new lead panel in, put your contestants in. Contestants are always the
lifeblood of those things and you're away. But there was no real format. Three blokes doing
car films and who knows what they'll be each week. You've got a studio, you read out the news,
you've got a guest coming on. We found when we made the grand tour, legally, you can do all that
over again with a few conditions. Everything the opposite. You don't have a format. Oh,
god, the legal shit, honestly. But you don't really have a format. You just have the three guys.
And because, come back to the point, we're not planning this, when we get big,
there's no way of formatting it. Now, the BBC have reproduced it. Now, the BBC tried to
and they got good presenters in Australia. They got good presenters in America.
But because the show was so much, it wasn't the apprentice, it was
Jeremy Richard and James. It said Top Gear, but it was Jeremy Richard and James,
what people were tuning in for. Those other poor souls in those other shows,
Australia and America, they're always getting compared to those three.
And the ones that followed Jeremy Richard and James.
Yeah. And where I felt sorry for those guys, they were really good, America, Australia in
particular, really good. And also, we don't have a monopoly on cocking about or self-deprecation
or piss-taking. That is quite a male thing that all males do.
You know, they're cornerstones of a lot of male piss-taking, self-deprecation.
We did not have a monopoly on that. But because we did it in this environment,
does other guys look like they would copy in us? And they kind of really weren't,
and we always felt sorry for them. But we couldn't help the fact that we got there first
and they were good at it.
So you got there first, tell me where it started. Because what we haven't covered at all is any
heading in the right direction from the teens. We've been in 20s. And at that point, it sounds
like there was points that you were lost. Didn't know this was going to happen, obviously.
I know you joined the BBC as a journalist on Top Gear at the beginning.
Yeah, I was Top Gear Magazine.
But what had made you, even though you and Jeremy were friends growing up,
what was the thing that without growing up in your earliest years, you wouldn't have been
at Top Gear Magazine? Because you're not that into colour, is my right?
It's Jeremy. It's Jeremy. It's Jeremy because I tried and failed
acting college. Absolute fucking disaster. And then
like the high point was doing Shakespeare in schools in North London,
like with two other people. And it's a sort of Friday afternoon. Can you imagine how many kids
give a shit about a two hour Shakespeare thing on Friday afternoon that the teacher thinks is valuable?
So that was drastic. And then I went back to university, but late, I was 25 when I went back
to university. So I come out when I'm 20. I've got my degree. I've got my brain working again.
But I still haven't got a plan. And I try and go to the foreign office because I've done Russian
studies. They'll be needing me at the foreign office. I fail the intelligence test that gets
you an interview. I don't even get an interview because I'm not bright like that. You know,
there's like, three men have got to cross a river with a bucket of water.
Seeing that before.
All that shit is like that sort of stuff. And you can always get them right,
but there's a time limit and you've got to get more than 50% of the questions done.
I didn't. So I don't get through to anything.
So I'm really kind of quite despairing at that point late end of the 20s.
And Jeremy has got a different kind of he is insecure too, but he's got a different kind of
confidence in that if he believes a certain thing he can do, he will go at it. And he'd set up his
motoring press agency with his mate Jonathan Gill and they'd got that going and they'd set it up
themselves. And he just came around one afternoon. He was like, you've got to try journalism. And I
was like, I can't do journalism. Glass even emptier, you know, I've got, you know, thousands of
people apply. I can't get on. And where he's the very Jeremy's, he goes, no, just start writing
something. Just right. Everyone wants ideas. He kind of flips the logic. Forget college.
Everyone wants ideas. That's your currency. And he did get me a sort of in with auto express
to the editor to sort of, he said, write a story and I you think one you write it, I'll get
Howard to have a look at it auto express. So that was the thing he did.
He wanted you to succeed with him. It sounds like because he had plans to work together,
he was just being a mate. There was no plans to make TV together. So then how did that come about?
So he's a motoring journalist and he's making his name on performance car magazine and he's
doing his reviews for local papers with this agency. So he's got his business, but he's writing in
a performance car, which was, I don't think it's goes anymore now, but it was like where he was
getting a name because he was writing, he was bringing cars to life in his own way. He was
funny and he was just, it was standing out as a writer's, as a motoring color.
Four, five, eights exhaustors sounding like a burning bear.
Was that one of the things? Yeah, for me, it was because I'm a big Ferrari fan.
I remember, but I'm saying stuff like that.
Yeah. And then like when I think, I don't know, John Major got back in or whatever,
he would like, right, I'm not working today. I'm just having a glass of champagne and he
just starts talking about the conservative victory, you know, but that's in a car column.
And they're like, what the fuck? What are you writing? But it made a mark. And then he was
drunk at a car launch one night and he went over to the Top Gear team and he was like,
he liked Top Gear, but that was all there was that you could watch if you like cars,
that's all there was. And he went over pissed and told them that their show needed a kick up the
arse that it was boring, that it was all consumer reviews. And he got lucky because they gave him
an audition rather than saying, can you fuck off and leave us alone? And then he got the job.
And then he set about what he was going to do, which was to
journalistically inject the vim and vigor that he thought the show was missing. He then
got to work on it, you know. So he's on the rise
at Top Gear in Pebble Mill in the 90s. I'm, I've got my foot in the door with print,
motoring journalism. I don't know much about cars.
I'm not crazy about cars. I'm not like a great driver. But because that was how I got
foot in the door with Auto Express. I'm not really good at stories. I like stories. I saw
things a funny way. I like stories. Things interested me. I had an imagination. Would you
watch a TV show even then or a thing on Telly and think, oh, cut that there. That was too long.
That was too much fucking waffle. I should have been exposed. I didn't analyse it.
Didn't analyse anything. But because I wasn't interested in cars per se or engines or what
have you, I thought, right, I must find my niche to make sort of people-y
car culture-type features. I would start writing. So I would go out at Top Gear Magazine. I'd go
out on Safari to LA and I'd meet Buddy Kins, who was Steve McQueen's buddy and stunt driver and
stuff like that. He'd tell me stories. I'd go and find those guys who were, because this is
in the 90s, so they're just coming on board, you know, the huge stretch limos were becoming a thing
and nobody had really seen them. I go to Dubai. I find that shake with the pickup truck that's got
bedrooms in it. There's some mental stuff in the world in there. So I'm doing that because I'm
like, right, I've got my niche here with motoring culture. And then Jezza gets his first solo gig
at the BBC, which is Clarkson's Motor World, which lo and behold is about car culture around the
world. So when the BBC go, right, who do you want to work on it with you? He goes, it's got to be
Andy, because I'm already doing that kind of thing. He knows it can't be engines. It can't be
like Top Gear. It can't be engines, engines, engines. He's like, he knows I will find some
stuff that gives it substance what he would call there's the spine of your story.
And then the Christmas baubles that go either side. He knows I'll find the baubles.
When did you realize that the lights on the tree were going to turn on though?
And that it actually all came together? Christmas analogies.
Was there like a moment? Was there an episode or a series or something that you all looked
to each other and went, do you know what? Were you talking about these, Top Gear or?
Yeah, those early days and moment where you thought, oh shit, like all this actually like
works for the first time. Well, Jeremy and I had success with these things we were doing through
the 90s. They were getting big figures. Then in TV was getting big figures. The one that blew
our brains out was we had made one of those motor worlds about Iceland and it got 7 million
viewers on BBC too. And part of it was that we'd lucked into it that it was a travelogue that
people weren't going to Iceland, they weren't going to Vietnam, they weren't going to Cuba.
Now it's on every TV chef or every TV whatever is going to those places.
But we were quick. We were ahead of the game there. So the places looked amazing.
Because if you watch one of those shows today, Jesus Christ, is it slow? It is ponderous.
You know, Jeremy's got really formal pieces to camera. We take forever with the sort of
sequences and the things. It's really slow compared to what we like now or compared to what,
you know, the farm is at a gentle pace, but it's not slow like sort of motor worlds were.
Anyway, I'm digressing. They were a hit and the figures surprised us.
And it was teaching Jeremy how to be a presenter. But there was still no moment where we're going
like, hey, we are the gods of telly because we did not think that. We were like, what do we get
another job? I've had obviously different people that have got different journeys in TV.
Opposite me in here. And I'm also thinking of maybe Mike Brewer as being an example.
Wheel of Dealers. Not everybody has access to those viewing figures because there's always
sometimes a battle between the broadcaster and the actual thing that's going on itself.
So did you always have like the data in front of you? Did you know you'd always done that
seven million views and then celebrate off the back of it? Yeah, the BBC. Those days
were BALB or whatever. It's not like Amazon now who never give you any figures.
Do they not? No. The BBC, you've always got your figures. You've got your overnight the next day,
you know, and then at the end of the week, you get the consolidated figure, which would be
everybody who's videoed it, you know, got the VHS in and all that. You get those figures on
top. So you always got another million or something like that. See, when you say that though
about Amazon, that is going to blow so many people's minds because if you've got the access to have a
show that's on the front cover of when you open up that app on a TV or phone or tablet and it's
there with you and the boys and it's really gone to all that trouble and driven across all those
deserts in the heat with all those cameras and people and microphones and breakages and I know
smoke, yet you don't have access to those numbers. I think that kind of blows some
people's minds. Well, it's a double-edged sword. It's a double-edged sword because
we were junkies for and if you've been in terrestrial TV, you are for the overnight because
that's when the most people watch something because you've got your terrestrial schedule.
So Sunday night as the top gear goes out, when we were at our peak, you'd get
seven and a half million. Monday morning, you'd find out you got that. You go,
fuck me. Yes, that's a good number and then you get another million with the consolidators. So
you're up to nine million and that's your number. So you're waiting for two figures and you get them
both within seven days. Whereas with one of these things, as we all know with anything on the streamers,
they just rack them up over time. The numbers become millions and millions but they just go on
forever. But there's never a celebratory moment like how many people watched adolescence on Netflix?
60 odd million, something like that. It's a massive number but it would have taken weeks
for that to become the thing. It wasn't overnight. No, it's not overnight because word of mouth then
does the job. So there's never a big moment to celebrate and if I ran Amazon or Netflix,
I wouldn't give the presenters the numbers either. Why? Because you won't like the fact
that the day your show drops, it's a small number compared to what you got in terrestrial
because it's people just choosing to watch you on the lights. So you'll be disappointed
because you'll go, oh shit nobody likes this because you'll sort of forget that it's going
to take time for the numbers to grow. But if we did get a big number, we'd go and shout about it
because you just can't help yourself and they would be pissed off. YouTubers, like myself,
do use that as their predominant platform to upload. There's a thing, my phone's on air
of play mode, but there's a thing within the app I really want to show you. So I don't know if you
have seen it before and although it's not loading but it's really good. It's called the ranking by
views chart. So I've just clicked on one of my recent podcasts and it's a 3 out of 10 and that
gives me at any moment the amount of views it did compared to the last 10. This is like visiting
your dad in an old people's home, isn't it? Show me this. This is showing the amount of views that
episode did compared to the last 10 in the same time period. And the reason I've showed you
is because... It's a mad lesson gets the biggest number. Yeah. Right. And then it trickles down,
that can change around. That something can go from an 8 out of 10 to a 2 out of 10 in seconds.
But the reason I show it is to give context because a creator like myself, that graph
haunts their life. It does for Matt Watson. It's the most used app on his phone is the YouTube
studio app. And that graph can just either make you have a really good day or a really bad day.
And the reason I've done that, the reason we've spoke about this because I want to get into
these two other characters here because I think when we talk about how you and Jeremy would
feel about those numbers, you've given us some insight. Talk to me about how Richard and James
would feel about our boys. We did 9 million consolidated views this morning. What would
their reactions be compared to you and Jeremy? Right. Well, this one, Richard Hammond is a TV
animal. Now, what do I mean by that? He's absolutely knows that when the cameras go on,
he's got a role to play. And he understands the whole world of TV. And he would get excited by
those numbers because because he's a TV animal, because TV means everything to him.
That's why he's done all kinds of shows like stood on ships in the middle of the ocean.
And Izzy, when she came on set one day, she came home like this,
brought her on the back and the entire swimming pool was full of custard.
And it's like, yeah, Jeremy's a TV animal too. But he's got his journalism as an outlet as well.
So he can go on a writer and a broadcaster rich as a TV animal. James, journalist and TV as well.
James would be, I think he'd probably hide his pride a bit. But is that a surprise from the
guy you watch? Would that surprise you? Not at all. But we there's always chuffed because everyone's
chuffed by we can own most people can only see what they see of the guys on TV in that show
or the stuff they see around it as in when the television network or a news channel comes
and knocks on their front door and he opens the cup of tea and says, what would you like to talk
about? Like most people's understanding of those personalities are only from what they see. So
how close are the guys to what you see on TV versus what you get down the pub?
There's just even more down the pub that couldn't make the cut.
It's more down the pub that couldn't make the cut. The conversations are,
yeah, they are what you saw on the TV. And I think
you couldn't have lost, they couldn't have lasted as long as they did with that,
with the viewers, viewers spot when it's like a TV creation, when a friendship is a TV creation
or a character is a TV coat that's been put on your viewers spot that shit.
So they came along as what they are. And, you know, is Jeremy an opinionated bombast?
Yes, on TV, more than most, more than most because he's and there you see him as a columnist
making the most black and white type columns about as in there's no shades of gray in his writing.
But he took that decision years ago. Not to give a shit. No, it's not not to give a shit. He does
give a shit, but he took that decision years ago. It's the equivalent of people giving a restaurant
or a film one star or five stars. You read the one star review, you read the five star review.
Someone's got three stars, you just don't read it. And I think he tries to make his column the
same way. He doesn't give you a three star column, which says, however, on the other hand, or to be
fair, you know, things like that, he doesn't do that. It's either this or that. Because he knows
that's what people kind of want to read. Now, what makes me laugh is on the farm show, people are
going, oh, that's the side of Jeremy I've never saw. Oh, Jeremy's like, he's much gentler, but he
always was. He always absolutely was. But there was no room to show it in Top Gear and the Grand Tour
because they were there in hypercolours, their cartoons to a degree Top Gear and the Grand Tour.
It's not a real world, you know, the way we live. They sort of...
Are you comparing that to the outside world or comparing the time you're in it to the time you're
not? Because is it your world? Is that your world 24 seven?
It was our world, yeah, but I think I'm saying it at its most basic, like a man walks over to a
Ferrari that's full of petrol with the keys in and it's on a runway, you know, that's like,
that's nothing's real about that. Did that ever rub off for you or the guy? No, no, they still get
excited about that in season, whatever the Grand Tour. Yes, they would. And more importantly,
then a Fiat bring out a Fiat 500 twin cylinder with like, you know,
sod all horsepower but the engine's tiny or that fiesta, one litre fiesta. I remember the trip
to Chernobyl in like one litre. Yeah, they are excited about the one litres as they are about
Ferraris because that's like, that's a clever little car. There's something, I think we're
excited because there's something to say as well. It's a two way street. Like Jeremy's like,
when am I going to test that, let's go to Roomster because it's different, you know.
So it doesn't have to be a Ferrari or anything. They get excited by a new car coming along that
has got something to offer. But what you were saying, are they like they are? Yeah, Richard is.
There's an element of Norman wisdom about him. The kids loved him the most. And he was always
the funniest. He'd like, say they were going to do one of their three car introductions. I bought
this, I bought this at the start of a film. And Jeremy would be like, thinking about what he was
going to say. And he'd like, got his points worked out, because he's a columnist. He plans it,
scrubs it through, writes it again. He's quick on the hoof, but something like that he'll work it
through. James the same. Hammond is like on his phone vaping, talking to Mindy and you're like,
okay, now we're filming in a minute, you know, and then he'd go right and then just
blitz it with the kind of one liners that he would come out because he just assesses his brain
so fast and he'd assess the situation. He'd look at the weaknesses in that car and that car and
all so and so on. And then just bang out it comes to all my loyal listeners listening on Spotify,
Apple and other streaming platforms. I urge you to do me a quick favor that you might not know
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Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the podcast. And I really hope to bring you
some more inspirational guests soon. See, when you've got big personalities like that,
and then you apply that with millions of views that come in over a period of years,
and you've still got to go outside the world you're talking about into the outside world,
the world that you said wasn't real compared to the one you're in.
Okay. All right. We're in a dimension, the matrix. The guys end up with a big level of fame
between every single one extraordinary fame, extraordinary. And I had a moment where I was
at a car show start of the year. Patrick had an ism underground in London. And Hammond came along.
And I'd consider a couple of my YouTube friends to be very well known millions of subscribers.
I mean, even we in the van get beeps going down the motorway. And then Hammond walked through
down the center of this car park and a wave of people which is in a picture robots, following
every just just following the way following the people. And it's only now I'm in it a bit more
that I have a tiny understanding of what that's like. It's not what you think it's like if you've
never been in it a little bit. And there's one more story here just to our context, which is
something that meant the world to me when I was younger, was my dad came home from Heathrow Airport
and he had a rag. I actually tried to find it for this episode, like a handkerchief.
And on it was Jeremy and Richard's signatures because he bumped into them in the Virgin
lounge and they were still in the days of autographs. Yeah. And years later, I said,
Oh dad, when you when you got me that because that meant so much. It was my favorite program
growing up meant so much. I said, What were they like? That Richard was lovely. The other one was a
tosser. And he'd had enough of it by then. My dad had convinced them to Jeremy to do the signature
or Richard had convinced Jeremy to do the signature. If dad gave a hundred quid to Haiti
earthquake or something like that happened at that time. But would that be something that you,
as Mr. Willman, would have to keep everybody under control, everybody okay, everybody good to
film? Would you ever have to kind of console them for that level of fame is what I'm getting at?
No, because it was you couldn't control it. And there was a we spotted it when they started to get
big. I've seen the dynamics of fame like with the guests we've had down there at the studio.
And it's the same pattern. You can have nominally bigger names than those guys Tom Cruise and people
Tom Cruise has got to walk through the studio audience to get to the stage like every other
guest. People like go they don't they don't go near him. And I think if Tom Cruise walked down
the street, I saw Charlie Watts walking down the King's Road ones. And people are looking like
that's a rolling stone, but they don't go near them. There's something about kind of iconic
status. These three because of the way the show is that they're going right, we're in the pub
tomorrow and I know I've driven a 400 quid car into a river. The viewers think they are your
like mates, they belong to you, they're your mates and everything else. So they're like
totally accessible. So the next step is they go and therefore because you're my mate I can mob you
like and I know Jeremy would get pissed off like he's standing at the airport checking in
and a bloke would come over and just go like that with the phone not even ask him title to
yeah not even ask him and go right picture. And I just excuse me sorry what and the guy's
thanks mate and then off so he's like bombed a selfie for himself with Jeremy but never asked
and that that was like incessant absolutely incessant for them.
Would it drive them crazy ever to the level where they're like
fuck this? No I don't think there's any flip power anything. Jeremy said now now he's turned 65
he's like I've retired from selfies. He's like found, he's found a way, he's really good at it now
he's gone no because he can say it because before you'd have to go no sorry I'm not doing one and
people think are you prick but now he goes sorry I'm 65 I've retired from selfies and people go
okay I accept the logic because I'm just not doing anymore now I've retired from it.
So they're getting an interaction with him and a bit of logic and the other thing he does I saw
this at the Grand Prix with the show with him and Caleb the sort of fan interest of those guys was
back to early top gear days again like the kind of the way people are rushing around like mechanics
coming away from the teams like with the camera phones and all that and they're walking down the
pit lane like that and people are running over and there's families and kids and stuff like that
so Jeremy's got this sort of tactic now where he goes like I come and get a picture and he goes
I'm walking down there you can take your picture but I'm not stopping you know I'm not going to
have a selfie with you but if you want to take a picture I'm walking. So they get their picture.
I'm so glad you included this word on the front cover of the book because there's some
could have been penguin but there's something there's something well you're actually saying
here that you think penguin would have wished that Jeremy would have written about Jesus Christ
not you but I think that that was Jeremy Claus but we see so much of those guys in the lens and
think we get to know him which is why I was so excited to have this chat because it's not often
you get to hear of someone that was so close to them that's able to kind of drop in and out of all
three. Yeah that is quite a unique perspective to have you probably know them better than most.
Yes and that was 22 years. What was the angriest you ever were at Clarkson during the top gear
days was it the day it all come to an end? No it wasn't angry then. It wasn't angry at all.
Sad? I've just come off the microphone. We were all shell-shocked and sad but...
Richard Porter echoed that when I had him in the van.
Richard was angrier than I was because he was mad at Jeremy. Yeah he kicked off in his book and
said it and when I wrote mine I was like well I wasn't that angry I was actually I could see it
coming that we were going to crash and burn one way or another because it was so manic the pressure
was so crazy be it the need to maintain the quality and the the film the ambition of the films is
going up but you still got the same time in which to shoot them. We're all knackered we're exhausted
we cannot delegate for shit he can't I can't so and people would go right we'll get more editors
in and then you just watch the film to get editing you walk in and I'm like I can't do that so if
the film gets bigger and more ambitious I just stay till smaller hours in the morning so we're
drained we're done I'm on antidepressants I'm screwed and the whole show is it's boiling up
to collapse at some point you can feel it yeah one way or another it's coming so when it happened
I was like not really surprised so sad but not angry and then why was I not angry with Jeremy
because he shoulders more than anybody else
in terms of the work and the responsibility we don't have to go out there and do what he does
and there's very few presenters who write as much or are as creative as he is behind the scenes
because it's a double workload and so I didn't agree with Porter but I could see why it's pissed
off I didn't agree with it but then you know and then when we got grand tour going I get portrait
ring I was like you're going to come and work with this and he's like oh fuck I didn't expect this
call because he thought he'd like but did you his bridges but did you expect to be making that cut
what in what way in the moment that you talk about those emotions of feeling when top gear ended
did you would you have expected a short while later to be making that call to Richard
uh what you mean that we would be back on our feet yeah
do you know it didn't take long for me to think
Amazon no not Amazon we didn't have that I've seen Jeff's boat
no we didn't have that plan but we um it didn't take me long to think there is no way it can end here
not like this no because I knew we had too much still to give what we needed was a break
we needed obviously start again you know we did the ruins were the ruins the wreckage was the wreckage
but I knew we weren't finished because we were still good did the BBC expect you to start again
because when you talk about all the legal challenges they wanted me to stay and then they tried to
make Richard and James stay they made a campaign to break the four of us up
for safety yeah I mean it was win-win because I was like
so Jeremy gets fired then BBC two controller comes to see me and goes right we've got to
get a new top gear going and I'm looking at I thinking are you fucking mental I'm not saying it but
I'm like number one can I grieve number two you don't know what you've got rid of
and you think because you own the brand I'm not being horrible in my thoughts but I'm like you
just don't understand what you've lost you just don't get it and she has to get the
top gear going again on BBC two because she's running the channel so she's hoping I think that
I go right okay well let's rebuild and we'll have a new plan and I was like after a couple of weeks
I go I'm sorry no I'm done I don't this is not going to work I don't want to do it so I quit
did any because because you'd have met all sorts of people in your time at the BBC
did any of the presenters that went on to attempt to fill the boots in Top Gear even though the
Grand Tour was going on so everyone was like well we'll just follow the chaps over there
but did any of those guys ever reach out and console with you for any advice even though
you were doing the Grand Tour well the ones who stayed at Top Gear no they didn't reach out for
advice we all stayed Chris Evans or anything like that got called from Chris Evans but I think
Chris wouldn't do that anyway Chris is like right Chris would I mean we got on well with Chris
like pre the whole buster we would go out drinking with Chris that sort of stuff he loved our show
he was really good to us on his breakfast on radio too he always plugged Top Gear
so he loved what we did
but once he's taken over Top Gear he's too much of a professional to go right I'm
going to ask the old guard what to do here he knows that he's expected to make his own version
of it then the team in the office they're not going to reach out because I think they'd find
that weird I used to be their boss and then they're ringing me to go what should I do about this
so they're going to find that weird to do that I think that's just sort of manners I guess or
etiquette plus also they want to give it a shot and do it themselves they don't want me to be
helping they want to they want to prove that they can do it
and then we were all just too busy I mean that's a simple thing we had a year
from signing with Amazon to get a show 12 shows made and on air and this was the pisser legally
safe and yet be as close to Top Gear as possible I mean that is in a year we were like what the
fuck have we done since we signed the the agreement I wish you'd filmed just one and release it
years in advance what just one conversation in a pub talking about how are you going to make it
different because Porta described to me one of those conversations there's tons in here and
I bet there I haven't got that far yet honestly there's tons in here there's
I mean there's I throw Porta under a bus massive
amazing bat for his book yeah yeah a little fucker no there's um there's the whole how we get the
whole guess thing wrong and how we get the tent is like our spinal tapstone hinge you know so I've
covered everything there about how we screw up who had the idea to do everything the opposite way
how do you mean the opposite way well it's not in a it's not in a building it's in a tent
it's not it's not standing up everybody's sitting down right there's chapters in there
because they are the funniest the funniest parts of the Grand Tour are getting going
because we're like we're against the clock we're in legal hell because that Amazon are clearly
expecting it to be as close as Top Gear as possible but not but legally not Top Gear so then
you get a bank of lawyers surrounding whatever you do so the tent is a separate thing I'll come to
that but you get things like can James and we have lawyers at certain points going can James say oh
cock because he said he on Top Gear they go is that a trademark thing from Top Gear or a format
point or is that something James himself would say and we're like are we really having this fucking
conversation 400 pound an hour man you know and it got its worst its worst point was a lawyer went
I've just been thinking when you're abroad on your big foreign exotic journeys you often stop and
admire the view taking the scenery and we're like yeah like people have a fag yet like people do
and he was like I'm just wondering if that's a format point that's something you do on Top Gear
and we're like well what would you like to do would you like to stand in front of the sort of
deserts in Namibia and go well this is shit which you know what's what what do you expect
and then at that point they even the lawyers go all right all right sorry sorry sorry you know but
it was they got down to things like when the guest comes on they walk through the crowd
in the Top Gear studio we're surrounded by we're in the round so they would go right in the tent
you've got to be at one end Jeremy can't write hand write a time and stick it on the board
it's got to come up electronically those were the sort of legal things that you couldn't copy
was there so many of that at any given point that you thought oh fuck this like was there a day
where you felt like no they were funny I mean like I said the lowest point is you know can you
admire the view or can James say or can't but I think because our whole world is
you know we built two shows based on things going wrong you know with a good day a bad day for us
is when the car doesn't break down you know so because we built so much of our career on things
going wrong we would just go right these are pub anecdotes at least and go to pub tonight go guess
what a lawyer said to me today we'll get a laugh out of it and then the tent was oh Jesus I killed
Jeremy because they were like Amazon going okay we need a kind of new format sort of
as a good look but not a new format but a new look so we didn't have the name grand tour yet
all we did I can't remember it was it was wandering around our brains and then Jeremy one day went
hey I've had an idea I was watching True Detective the other night and he went there's this episode
where there's a sort of religious gathering and they're in this tent it's like big sort of canvas
job it's got poles and there's like a congregation in there it looks really like piece of piece to put
up and we could do that we'll put up something like that and we'll travel around with it we'd go
around the world with it if we want and we'll just put up our studio temporary every week
so great idea and it fits with grand touring and it's very different to Top Gear we're not a
base anymore we've got a mobile base and where it gets kind of comedic or tragic
and spinal tapish is Jeremy goes the director and everybody else goes okay right this tent
is got to have like double floor the floor's got to be perfectly level so the cameras go across it
soundproofing it's got to be double skin the window behind you it can't just be in
polythene polythene shit you get out millets it's got to be like made out of gold or whatever
for the sun and this sort of stuff and then like if we're going to do the schedule we need to build
two of them and the teams that are doing the mobile studio they need their own tents that they've
got to be tacked on so the bill is rising because at the start you would move the tent around wouldn't
you to the different places but we did the rock band thing you know like big rock bands have two
stages replicas so they can keep the tour moving and it's more cost effective to have two stages
it would take too long to move it and put it up if we were recording so we had to buy two
and the bills just keep going up and up and Jeremy keeps he sort of goes I think I've
seen in there he's got this like dustpan and brush of impatience in his head so if you start going
now you see he can't it's not just like in true detective you can't do that and he's like yes
how hard can it be I mean like some people in a tent I mean the you know tents are tents
weddings are intense and everybody can hear each other and so on and so you always find a reason
and go look it's gonna be fine it's gonna be fine it's gonna be fine and then that thing grew and
grew and grew and we thought shit we can afford to spend two million on this and then towards the end
like the cost we thought oh fuck it's gonna be like nearly three million we're spent on this
tent moving around and I'm looking at the producer who's in charge of it I'm like we can do this for
two million he's like yeah and I'm like I'm thinking you lying prick yeah but we're all
buying into the lie because we've got to get going and we've only got a year you know to have
everything ready so then the bill finally comes in it's five million right at which point we go
right we're not going abroad anymore we're going to put the tent in one place so yes the happy
those are like the accidents are all in there and porter with the guest thing there's a good chapter
about what went wrong you talk about earlier on some of that insecurity in your 20s yeah in the
top gear even with all the success of that show you'd have had part of your pie chart of confidence
now you felt before the grand tour began would have been oh we're gonna be I'm imagining you
we're gonna be fine because we've got this huge audience people are excited and anticipated but
the evening of the first launch of the show and it actually goes live what did you feel like then
and Richard James and Jeremy yeah
let me go back let me try and think let me try and think because it drops you know what I mean
it's it's drops it doesn't there's not that moment 8 p.m. Sunday night where
in terrestrial where there's a communal thing you know a top gear we imagine families like going
right do your homework or you're not watching top gear top gear then bad and you think there's a
there's a ritual going on around the country that we're all part of whereas when something drops it's
it's a really like cold feeling because it's like the show's now available you're like oh was that it
and you get you can look for your reviews you can look for now things like forums are up and
running fully you'd look for those but yeah it wasn't it wasn't a mega feeling it wasn't a mega
feeling because it's not you don't get the instant gratification afterwards and you think
is this going to be as good as what we did I'd say the other thing that's important as well
by the time we're doing the grand tour we're professional
we know what we're doing we've got an armory full of weapons that we can call on that we've got
big races builds la la la specials we know what we're doing
but with top gear we're discovering it all as we go along so we're amazing ourselves
we're full of surprises when we do something and we're like yay we did this and we thought of that
and shit cheap cars work you know cheap cars are better than expensive cars for films you find it
out on the hoof you're excited but we know all this by the time we're starting to make the grand
tour do you think from a viewer perspective people expect the grand tour to be good because
they've discovered how much they love to top gear over the years yes and they were they came in their
droves and they loved that first step they hated the second step which was us fucking around in
Jordan doing our version of edge of tomorrow live die repeat that tom cruise film where he gets
killed and he comes back again we did something similar for our second show and it's the most
hated show we've ever made of any anything because people are like what are you doing
you pricks this is like you're not comedians you're not actors we really loved it still do
but um you're like you're juggling you're finding your feet this but we know we're in for the long
run we're in for three years so we know we're going to get it right i want to just go back to this
word hi one of the best days of my life is you could imagine being a top gear fan i've watched
at my whole life and suddenly through driving around this van and meeting a lot of people
that seem to like me i get invited to drive one of the original Suzuki lianas head to head against
another youtuber being instructed by what was the ecstic Ben Collins and i remember with my friend
freddy tovaris who's a car rebuilder from america he's rebuilding one at the minute
we're frank steverson and there was this moment where he looks at each other he went
i'm the fucking top gear to drive back and we went over but that's because you were nine as well
wasn't you would have just had your old porter cabins and there were still fag butts on the floor
and yeah yeah i was down there actually few weeks ago and we tore off some bit of the
porter cabin and split it between two of us we went back and that to us is like hello ground at
oh that is to us too yes and that's why i think it's really important that this word's on the
front of the book magic because without that word without that feeling of magic we wouldn't
have bothered going and ripping off a piece of no because you thought the magic was that excuse me
the magic was that show belonged to everybody it got under your skin do you think that the new
version of that magic for you is actually the farm yes rather than the grand tour yes 100 would
you ever have expected that to be the magic no no we never we never knew the farm was gonna be
anything well and we'd give it jeremy would give it his best shot i'd say wait it's jeremy show
give it his best shot i remember the way the reason the farm came about is when amazon wanted us
to resign after the original three years were up we weren't sure we should carry on we're like okay
now's the time to stop we've done another 36 shows we're gonna go shit at some point so let's get
ahead of it and not be shit and just stop and amazon won't want us anyway and it says that they
did want us because we were doing well for them and then we were like no no no no no we're not
going to do it and then the bastards went okay which is the way to get foreign secure people
is to go all right here's some more money to make more top gear at grand tours but you each get a
solo show now imagine you're a 70s band whereas full of egos like deep purple or something like that
and the keyboard player suddenly got his solo album deal you know the record company's only
interested in the lead singer in the lead guitarist but suddenly the bass player the keyboard player
everybody's got their own solo thing we all got our own solo project deal with amazon and they
said to jeremy what would you like to do because i'm thinking about life on my farm
and if i had a quid for every amazon executive went can you talk him out of that please
because they thought that how can that be interesting in any way
so i rang him out are you feeling the knives in your back today and he's like what and i was like
people try i'm so i'm just killing myself here the people trying to talk me out get you to talk
you out doing this and he was like i don't blame him i don't blame him he didn't get cross at all
he was like i'm crapping myself that this is going to be any good
so he's like and we were like what we're worried about and i was like i'm i'm i know you'll do
your best but what if it's boring him and that's what i'm worried about it's going to be boring
so your it's starting like top gear and that you've got no expectations of it that's a similarity
whereas with the grand tour there are expectations
you're starting with nothing which is like top gear
and then happy accidents occur which is like top gear the biggest happy accident is the cast
because nobody knew that gerald would be gerald that charlie would be charlie and calib would
be calib and lisa would be lisa or even alan the builder would be the perfect builder nobody knew
that would happen is two dogs are fucking mental you know and you're like they're perfect tv dogs
because they won't do anything he says but you're like he could have got if he'd have bought two
dogs and they were obedient they just wouldn't be on the screen you know well that that show inspired
me so much thank you i only live down the road from there and i decided to go to battle with the
planners the same with the planners next to about building a fishery with all right little
lodge on the side of it and i never intended to make a youtube version of clarkson's farm for
example but what ended up happening is i got so angry at the planners i decided to film it
and suddenly the people that shone through on my youtube series were behind the camera today
we have louis who is known as child labour services yeah we had mr vincent eight he's
making he's actually making train as well he's actually fast he's a fast child racing services
right but we had vincent james carpentry it did all the work in the building yeah we had jack the
reed man and we had my mum and it went nuts on youtube because you had this little gang
but it was everybody was asking for people like my mum who now gets a selfie in tesco
seven-year-old mum doesn't even know what youtube is and it sounds like that when it was that
break-off because you you get to do what you never really thought you would but there's magic you
know and none of them really care about it either that's i think that's i don't think your mum
cares that she's on telly no so that makes her perfect for telly she thinks that's a podcast
who was that writer it was a writer it was either hawthorne or whitmore we're going clever now um
big american writer literary giant and he came out with this phrase which was any man is like the
1800s any man who professes a desire to run for president should automatically be excluded from
running for president the logic being you it's you should be pressed into service to do it you
don't go ego ego driven and i think it's the same with tv a lot of the time your mum doesn't want
to be there so she's fine she's not interested in the cameras gerald's not interested charlie never
watches himself you go fucking hell charlie you were good in the giving jeremy what for the other
week in the office he goes i didn't see that i've not watched it and they're perfect for telly in
that way when you sit at home with a drinking hand finished writing all of this it's now here in
physical form yeah put all the stories in there yeah is there still stuff that you'd love to go
out accomplish do fine is there still more to give i'm very jealous when i watch something like
senna or searching for sugar man those two hour docs that are just has taken somebody
two years to make and they make one thing it's perfect and i can do it and i could be on my
own the reason i write in the book was i liked it was i was on my own because everything i do is
collaborative and we're also on a timetable you know 10 top gears 12 grand tours la la la
there's a pressure there's a there's a thing you're locked into
and i always used to look at those people doing like a senna documentary and go
wish i could do that just like take two years you make one thing you noodle over everything
i really would like to do that well i told you be out in this van just over an hour in
we've managed to cover pretty much everything that's really cool so what's in there
done my check is i've put is this what it looks like from amazon i really want to cash so i have
to tell anybody if this isn't possible inside that's what i doubt it is 99% of me is convinced
this is not possible okay but there's a 1% of me like when you decided to do clarkson's farm and
it worked and it went through that when we should do this we should try this and this is me going
i need to try this is this your way of saying something you want it is something i want she's
like jim will fix it but without any please read out just like the early days of top gear the
letter to the audience andy congrats you are nearly through the podcast and can go home
exclamation mark really this challenge could be the hardest you have had in an envelope yet
exclamation mark get a bit much with those the challenge is to convince jeremy clarkson to
allow road success road to success to pull up at the pub pour a crisp that's a good word for him
pint of hawkston and have a chat with us for one hour with all proceeds going to a charity
of his choice and don't fancy your chances neither do i however my little street food business
Gertwings trades happily at hawkston on bought bought and on the water right with his face
above our truck oh yeah the skirt wings there Gertwings comes there my street food business
right with a lot of our so where are you near here near the brewery or whatever yeah the brewery
and bought and on the water right where there's a tent there a smaller tent than the one at his pub
we actually pull up there and we trade food so they do the beers they do all the drinks and we
do of course wings wings i'll ask him i'll ask him and the project when he did those trout into
his lake into his pond yeah on the episode that was the moment that convinced me to dig a one
acre pond in the field behind my mum's house because when my dad died i wanted to do something for
my mum that got her happy again and without that moment of television i wouldn't have done the most
fulfilling thing of my life and also had this van to have you opposite so if i don't do the one
percent and not just for me no you've got to ask but for the hundreds of thousands of people that
may have listened to this i had to ask you guys will see in the future if that ever pops along
i'm glad i will ask i will ask like your book this episode has been about you this episode has
been about how you got to where you are today and i thank you so much for giving me just over
it's been a real pleasure no my van in the centre of london so i'll tell you what as well i've really
loved the way that we talked about which i think is a sort of strand of white you're interested
in how people get somewhere and i didn't really expect we'd be doing much of that and that's
a really it's a really interesting thing to do so thank you for that too i've had a great time
well if they want to grab your book i will leave all the links to it in the description and the
pinned comment in this video why the hell i've read this and it's brilliant why the hell wouldn't
you and christmas is coming up so guys please can you show some support to andy and also can
you show some support for hitting the subscribe button we're getting like children in need now
it's like please can you show some love andy and do something that you enjoy in your family
just go buy the fucking book andy thank you you'll have no heating this christmas thank you please
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