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Are McLaren playing favorites with Lando & Oscar?! | Unlapped
Are McLaren playing favorites with Lando & Oscar?! | Unlapped
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About this episode
Nate Saunders and Lawrence Edmondson dive into the controversy surrounding McLaren's team orders favoring Lando Norris over Oscar Piastri at Monza, debating whether the team is playing favorites or simply trying to be fair. They discuss the complexities of pit stop strategies, team dynamics, and fairness perceptions. The conversation then shifts to Mercedes rookie Kimi Antonelli's struggles and Toto Wolff's candid criticism, highlighting the challenges of managing young talent. They also analyze recent stewarding inconsistencies in F1 racing incidents and review driver performances, including Max Verstappen's Monza win and a stock market-style assessment of drivers like Carlos Sainz, Isaac Hadjar, and Lewis Hamilton.
Topics:
mclaren team orders
lando norris
oscar piastri
pit stop strategy
kimi antonelli performance
toto wolff comments
f1 stewarding controversies
max verstappen monza win
driver performance review
rookie drivers
Welcome back to Unlapped! Nate Saunders and Laurence Edmondson discuss the latest around the grid following Monza. Are McLaren prioritizing one of their two drivers? Has Antonelli's recent struggles taken a toll on Mercedes? Could Ollie Bearman suffer a race ban? Plus, Nate & Laz hit the driver market in "stock watch". All this and more on Unlapped!
Support Roald Dahl's Marvelous Children and Nate Saunders! (Charity Link): https://www.justgiving.com/page/bennatevis?utm_medium=FR&utm_source=CL
Time Codes:
0:00 Welcome to Unlapped!
1:37 Is McLaren playing favorites?
8:19 How should McLaren manage their drivers?
17:46 Did Lando change the view of the title race?
21:10 Should Mercedes be concerned about Kimi?
30:32 Would an Ollie one race ban hurt Haas?
38:10 Oracle stat of the week
38:29 Is Max back to being a victory contender?
44:23 Driver stock watch
57:04 Nate Hikes Ben Nevis + Thanks for watching!!!
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Welcome to Unlapped!
Is McLaren playing favorites?
How should McLaren manage their drivers?
Did Lando change the view of the title race?
Should Mercedes be concerned about Kimi?
Would an Ollie one race ban hurt Haas?
Oracle stat of the week
Is Max back to being a victory contender?
Driver stock watch
Nate Hikes Ben Nevis + Thanks for watching!!!
Select text to request an explanation
Craft Mac and Cheese is better than 90s hip-hop.
We'll remind you of your childhood, without making you feel incredibly old.
Craft Mac and Cheese, best thing ever.
Welcome to Unlaps, and once again, as was the case a few weeks ago,
you'll have already noticed I'm neither Katie George nor Nicole Briscoe, it's me, Nate Saunders,
joining me today is Lawrence Edmondson for another show talking about a pretty spicy topic,
I think. You have no prizes for guessing what the topic is going to be. Lawrence, how are you getting
on? Yeah, very good, thank you. You were in Monza when I wasn't, so I've had a week to digest
everything at home, and there's plenty to digest and talk about, but yeah, I'm interested
what you think about what happened on the ground as well. Absolutely, and I think it
will be interesting to see the different perceptions being there and not being there,
because sometimes, if you're watching certain coverage or whatever, you can see in a different
way, but yeah, excited to get into it, so let's fire away.
Unlap is presented by Oracle, and right now Oracle is offering to cut your current
Cloud bill in half if you move to OCI. See if your company qualifies at oracle.com
slash unlap. Welcome everyone to the show, as I said, Nate Saunders here with Lawrence
Edmondson. Not quite the dream team, sadly, but we do our best to fill in the gaps when Nicole
or Katie aren't here, and remember, if you're watching on YouTube, please do like this video,
leave a comment, and don't forget to subscribe to the new ESPN F1 channel for F1 all season long.
We're here all year round, and as Lawrence mentioned, we're always at races as well,
and trying to bring you the best news and the best insights when we can.
No prizes for guessing, Lawrence, what the top producer question is going to be this weekend,
what it's going to be about. Our friends in Papaya and McLaren, and we have here from producer
Quinton, does McLaren have a clear favorite between Oscar and Lando, and if so, why? Now,
I think that's a very pointed way of getting into the McLaren discussion because it's something
that's dominated the last few days. I also want to throw in here a quote from a man that
we used to spend a lot of time writing about, less so now, Bernie Eccleston, the former boss of Formula
1, obviously was always very good for a quote. He said to German publication over the weekend,
you're slowly getting the feeling that McLaren prefers a world champion named Lando Norris.
Now I know a lot of people who follow Formula 1 would think that would be the case.
I'm going to throw this over to you in a second, but obviously what we're referring to
here is the decision made at the weekend that when Lando Norris had a botched pit stop after
McLaren had already flipped around the order of the pit stops that they would have been normally,
Piastri got passed in that way. The call was made, please Oscar, could you please let Lando through?
Piastri did object in the kindest and most polite way. I think he could object of saying,
just want to clarify here, you know, we did talk about this, I don't think it's the
fairest thing to do, still did it. Norris took second back and that equated, didn't it,
to a six point swing in the championship. So obviously Lando lost a bunch of points in
Zanvo, gained some of them back at Monza. But I think a lot of people are quite upset to see
McLaren interfering like this in the drivers fight, certainly the fact that it helped Lando here
doesn't help that conspiracy theory out if you're denying it. Lauren, just on that question
alone, do you think there's favoritism before we get into it any deeper?
I don't. And I think McLaren got themselves in an awful mess in Monza. And actually I think
why they got themselves in that mess is because they're trying to be fair between the two drivers,
because they're not trying to give one an advantage over the other. And, you know, we don't want to
go too much into the details of everything that happened in Monza. But they started meddling
when they decided that Oscar Piastri would make the pit stop before Lando and Norris. They went
against the usual sequence that pretty much every team in Formula One does,
the driver who is ahead on track gets preference on pit stops, that usually means
pitting first. And they swapped that to try and protect Piastri from the clerk stuff that I'm
sure everyone is aware of already. So it was that decision first that then led to the situation where
Norris ended up behind. Okay, you know, I think botched pit stops are part of Formula One. And
if it was that alone, and this is echoing roughly what Andreas Stella said on Sunday night,
if it was that alone, then maybe it wouldn't have been the same situation. But because
they had already intervened by doing one thing by putting Piastri in the pits before
Norris, that was where it was all hang on, we've already in speed, now we need to fix that.
My advice to them would be just stop getting involved in the first place. I understand the
logic of trying to take the fighter max, if there'd been a safety car late on, and the two cars have
been out, you know, and sorry, if there'd been a safety car on the two cars that managed to pit
under that to put on soft tyres at the end, that would have been a massive advantage,
may have given them the victory. I understand that. But at this stage,
they're going to win the Constructors' Championship anyway. They're probably going to win the majority
of races left this season anyway. It's not really about beating Max anymore. I think he is about
having a fair title battle. And I mean, here's a question back to you. If they'd left it the way
it was, so if they'd left Piastri ahead of Norris, would we not be having all the same
arguments but from Norris fans saying that Piastri was given the advantage,
they screwed over Norris with the sequence in the pit stops, and then the pit stop itself.
So they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't, weren't they?
Yeah, I think there is a bit of that. And I think I've thought about this a little bit more of the
past couple of days. And I think the point you made about meddling is absolutely right.
You know, this is just, the advice has to be just hands off, you know, stop meddling in it.
But I think you're right there. But I think the difference with that would have been
that both drivers signed up to stay out late in the race. They stayed, they were both like,
yeah, let's go long, let's try and put max under pressure. And the byproduct of that was that the
team then placed itself under pressure. And that's where the mistake was made. It was made in a high
pressure situation. So I feel like most fans watching that would have been like, wow, they
probably still would have been like, well, McLaren really messed that up for themselves.
But it would have at least been, okay, well, there was a botch pit stop and whatever. But
I think, I do get what you mean, but I think that as well, because Lando's British and
because he's been there longer and because, you know, he was kind of Zach Brown's first signing,
I think the idea that he's the favored son, even though I'm the same as you, I don't agree with it.
I think it is stronger. I mean, people forget that Zach Brown went to court to get Oscar
Piastri to join the team. He was that convinced he was the real deal. And if you know, we've
spoken to Zach Brown before, he has said he's I don't care which one wins the championship.
And I believe him and Andrea are on that. I think it is just that. And this is this is
where this is so frustrating, I think, from a journalist looking at it, but also as a
fan of Formula One is that ultimately, I think this controversy is is rooted in a really good
thing. You know, I think it's rooted in a good place at McLaren of that culture that you mentioned
of trying to get the two drivers to race fairly. The problem is, I just don't know. And you
mentioned about had it gone the other way around, would it have been fair and what
fans have have seen it that way. And I think that is actually the most
important topic from that because the word fairness itself isn't black and white,
is it? It's a subjective idea, fairness. We know that that should be, you know, that
should have been this or that should have been that. But everybody's going to have a
different perception in their mind of what is more fair than something else. I thought,
for example, that if that had been the other way around, would McLaren's first inclination
have been to flip it around, because we were seven days out from Lando having the Zandvoort
failure, that would have been in the back of their minds, you know, you, you, you
know, you've only got to be human for that to happen. So yeah, it had it been the other
way around. There still would have probably been controversy of different ways, but
I just think the fact that they had to interfere and whenever a team jumps on
the radio and says to a driver, please move over, it's always worse than leaving it
be, isn't it? Because it feels like, you know, and kind of an unnatural result
has taken place in some way, even though Lando did spend the majority of the
race in front of Oscar, in fact, the whole race in front of Oscar, I think,
and qualified ahead of him as well. So that's why, again, they just didn't
need to do anything with it. And I think going forward as well, that then I put
this to the two drivers on Sunday in the press conference, it was, that's all
well and good being able to kind of write a wrong in that race. But what happens
in a race or two, if that happens again, and there's a botched pit stop or
whatever, and you drop behind a rival car, you know, in Baku, let's say,
Piastri has a perfect weekend, slow stop, drops behind Max and Lando,
Lando and Max. McLaren can't fix that. So suddenly you've created a
situation where it's like, well, is that is that less fair, just because you can't
fix it? You know what I mean? Like it feels like they've in trying to be
fair in the monster situation, they've just created this precedent that I don't
really think is very realistic going forward. So it depends whether it was
the botched pit stop or it was the sequencing of the pit stops that
they were trying to correct. And if you listen to what the team said
afterwards, and obviously they're going to paint the picture, even if you
listen to the radio beforehand, Will Joseph was talking to Lando Norris on
the radio and said, look, you know, we're about to box. Norris actually said,
are we boxed in Piastri first? Should we put boxed Piastri first? Because
aware of the situation, Joseph kind of got back to him and said, yes, we're going
to do that. And then Lando made clear as long as, you know, he doesn't get
the undercut, as long as he doesn't get ahead. Now I know it wasn't a
traditional undercut that got him ahead, it was a slow pit stop. But still,
all of that conversation played out. And then the other thing where I
think, you know, we should be very aware of is that immediately
afterwards, when Tom Sallard, Oscar Piastri's engineer, was
explaining to Oscar why he had to give the position back, he referenced
Hungary. And I think the Hungary 2024 example, just to refresh people's
memory, that was when they had a similar situation, they boxed out
sequence, Lando Norris ended up ahead. And then they told Norris to
give back the position. And it took him a while, you know, he didn't do
it immediately. And for, I mean, he did wait for the last few laps to
do it. And for a while it looked like he wasn't going to do it at all. And
there was controversy around that as well. But I think there's a similarity
there. So there's a lot of people saying, you know, they're making up the
rules as they go along. It was this botched pit stop. What are they
going to do in the future? I think all of that absolutely has to be
discussed. That's first thing in the team meeting this week back at
Woking. Like, in what circumstances do we need to swap back drivers?
But I think you can look at the example in Monza and say it was to
do with sequence of a pit stop. And you can, not a completely
parallel one, but you can draw a line back to Hungary where the
decision went the other way. And, you know, I don't know whether
people are conveniently neglecting that fact because they want to
pile on and they want to, you know, have accusations of
unfairness or otherwise. But I think if you then look at all the
other things that team has done this year, you know, the
amount of effort they have gone to to make sure it is a
fair battle. And I mean, interestingly, you mentioned the
Zandvor failure. You know, that was, failure's happened in
Formula 1. You know, people that have watched it for years and
years and years will know that it used to happen far, far more
often. And they often decide championships. You know, that's
not unusual. 2016 was a very good example of that with
Lewis Hamilton having an engine blow up in Malaysia. So, you
know, those things happen. And I think there is an element
within the team that there is a, you know, feeling of, ah,
you know, we've let that side down. But I don't, I
honestly don't think that was the thing that was
influencing the decision of Monza. But yeah, like I
said, main thing going forward, get nailed down
what situations lead to a team order position swap. Have
that 100% clear in everyone's minds because perhaps it wasn't
going into this weekend. And then stop meshing. Always
pick the cars in sequence. If something happens then, you
know, if they picked the cars in sequence, Landau had
slow stop and Piastri had had a quicker stop behind and
got ahead. You know, then I'd be more on your side and
the side of the internet if they're swapped back. But
you know, you have to take into account actually what
happened and the president that was set in Hungary.
Yeah, I do get you. I think, um, yeah, I think that that is,
that is fair. The, the, the sequencing, I just think
both drivers willingly signed up for, you know, for going
longer and then Landau was actually like, if you need
to pick the other car, do that. But then you're
right, you know, if, if his understanding was doing
that, would then, would then be fixed. He said it
very much with the caveat of no one, there's
going to be no undercut and he was right. There
will be no undercut. So you can understand his
disappointment when he came out and, and then the other
interesting thing around all of this is, you know, and, and
this I think is a weaker argument and perhaps a
reason why, you know, it wouldn't be a reason to
swap them. But there was an interesting thing where
they were talking about protecting the team a little
bit in the press conference of two drivers and
whether they were actually protecting the guy on the,
on the wheel gun. It was obviously his error, you
know, errors that happen all the time for a race,
you know, for consequential positions,
inconsequential positions. But it was his error.
Maybe there was a little bit of the, you know,
these guys realizing, look, this is a team that's
brought us all this way, you know, up to that
point, Lando's victory was pretty much locked on if
everything had gone normal. You know, maybe it's
fair because, I mean, Oscar, again, you know, it's
always hard to know whether Oscar, he never shows
his emotions. That's always hard to know whether
he's speaking from the heart. But he did
say that it was a fair situation afterwards.
And whether he said that to the team in
working this week, I don't know, perhaps he
didn't. But I thought, you know, that was
telling, he didn't want to make a scene out of it.
And also he gave the position back. It was
within Oscar's power, although I think very risky
long term, to just not give the position back
and take control. And if you listen to what Max
said afterwards, perhaps that's what Max was
that in what he'd done. Well, I don't think
it's an if. I think we know what Max would
have done. You know, I was thinking back
to Brazil 22 when Max was already the
world champion. He was sixth position in
Brazil. And Red Bull said, do you mind
letting Checo pass because we want him to
finish second in the championship? He
said no, you know, he was very blunt
about it with GP. And then after the race,
I actually thought it was at that point,
it was quite embarrassing for Red Bull.
They basically turned around and were
like, no, that was our fault, not Max,
big misunderstanding. So you can see two
very different ways of operating between
Red Bull and McLaren. And I think
McLaren probably actually deserve credit
for the fact that in a sport like
Formula One, they've by and large
been able to, you know, get to this
point without there being a big
controversy. I agree with you though.
The next question was going to kind of
throw forward to what they do now.
But I think it was both kind of,
you know, we've both kind of said it, you
know, the going forward, managing this,
I think the key is to just not meddle
in the same way. I think both drivers
have pushed the limit at different
points this year, haven't they, of that
racing rules? Obviously, Lando in
Canada, Oscar's nearly gone to the back
of Lando at two races. And that's
to be kind of, you know, rode back
a bit. But I think those things are
stuff the team is fine with, you know,
as long as the drivers respect where
those rules are. And I quite liked
it when they let that happen. They're
like, all right, we obviously don't
when you guys take each other out,
but you're free to race up to that
point. And I think McLaren, that's
where McLaren on the racing rules
have been really, really good. When
they jump in like this, I just think
also they just get themselves into
such a mess and it becomes such a
big story. I just don't think they
need to do it. Just a quick one on
this, Lawrence. Do you think this
would, I think they can win the
championship in Baku in a very
there's a very slim chance they can
do the constructors. Do you think
if the constructors was not
settled, would that have had any impact
on that call? Because there's been a
suggestion, hasn't there, that once
the constructors is done and it's just
the two drivers fighting, they'll
kind of step back a bit and, you know,
maybe leave them to it. I think maybe
you've answered that already, but do
you think it would have been a
difference? I think the constructors
is done. I think anyone is telling
themselves. Yeah, I mean, sorry, I
mean, yeah, I mean, like, I mean
math massively. Yeah, but I mean,
I don't think that might, I mean,
we would have to take McLaren not
to turn up to any more races. I mean,
even if both drivers... And even
even if they weren't able to race, and they
had reserve drivers in there, they'd
still win the constructors
championship. They're still
scrabbled to give enough points. So I
honestly don't think, while at the
start of the year, you know, if you
look back to Australia, really good
example of where I think
team orders actually overstepped
what they should have done. They
told Oscar, as he was approaching
behind Lando, both of them were
about 16 seconds clear of Max's
tapping in third, and as Oscar got up
behind Lando they said, right,
stop the racing, there's only one
dry line on the circuit, we're
coming up against a load of
traffic, we don't want an instant
where you both go out. Now that
example, because it was so early in
the season, at that point they had no
idea, well, they had some idea, but
they didn't know for certain they
had this advantage over the rest of
the field. So there was an example
where it's like, protect the 1-2,
protect the 1-2. They didn't actually
get it in the end, but that's what
was in their mind. So I think
there was a stage when the
constructors was in the back
there. I don't think it's a
factor at the moment. I don't
think, you know, whether they
win it in Baku or it takes another
three races, I don't think it
should be and I don't think it
really is impacting decisions. I
think the one thing they're
trying to do is be fair, but I
think sometimes in trying to be
fair, they're creating really
complicated situations for
themselves and, you know, I think
that's where they probably need to
review it a bit, perhaps take a
leaf out of the book of Mercedes
in 2016, not early on when
Mercedes had two drivers fighting
for the title, they were meddling
a bit as well, you know, they
wouldn't let them go on different
strategies, things like that.
But yeah, I think the best way
to have these situations and the
best way to have team unity
going forward, no bad blood
built up as a result of
something that happened here or
there is just to let the race
unfold, pit as you would
normally pit. If one driver
wants to go off on an
alternative strategy, fine, let
them, but, you know, everyone
should be aware of what's
going on. But yeah, it's
easier said than done, isn't
it? Because I mean, I'm
glad I'm not making a
decision on the pit, all
because I think I'd be
terrible at it and I'd
probably have everybody chasing
after me saying I was
unfair.
Yeah, when I used to play
the F1 manager game or the
motorsport manager game as
well, and I used to pause it
when it got to a really key
moment in a race and I would
spend ages working out the
best thing to do, which
obviously you can't do on
the pit wall, so it proved to
me that I would never have
been good strategizing for
that point.
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Miami
gun down
the key to this case
it's right here.
an hour before he died
he was on the phone
arguing with somebody.
This might be a hit.
You want the truth.
They just want a conviction
being placed under arrest.
We had a killer amongst us.
Murder at the U
listen now.
Just a quick one on my
clarion then we'll move on
to another topic.
We've seen
in terms of contract,
now and since the summer break
we've seen Oscar
completely dominate
Lando in Xanvore
and then we saw the reverse
of that at Monza.
We saw Lando have a
really, really great weekend
versus
Piazzari.
It's 31 points now
as the instigator.
Is that right?
31 points.
Yeah.
31 points is the difference.
So still massively advanced
is Piazzari.
Did Lando in Monza
before ignoring
the ignoring
what happened at the end?
Did he change your mind
at all?
Because I know both of us
think at this point
Piazzari is his to lose.
Did he change your mind at all
in terms of
he can actually overhaul
this gap?
Because I think
to me it still looks
very difficult for him to do
and I think that
Piazzari
I think is just such a
difficult guy to beat
over that length of time
but what did you make of that?
Do you think there's
hope for him yet?
Well no, I think it's still
so close.
I think there is hope
but I think it's still so close
that he's reliant on
something going wrong
for Piazzari
whether that's
Piazzari making a mistake
himself doesn't look very likely
but you know these
are humans that are driving
these cars
or the obvious thing
which is an issue
similar to the one
that Nora's had in Zambal
where he just loses
because zero points around
obviously then
that could put Lando
right back in the
championship fight
in the space of one round
so that is still
I think very much
probably in Nora's mind
and the good news is
the pace is there
but I don't think
there's been any point
this year
where I've looked at Lando
and thought
ah the pace just isn't
with Piazzari
because you go into every weekend
and sometimes
you know Piazzari
does look more convincing
but sometimes Lando does
and even Zambal
you know a race
where obviously
there was such a big
points gap in the end
in qualifying
there was 0.012 seconds
between those two cars
crazy
and then obviously
that qualifying determined
what would happen
in the first corner
where Max started on
softer tyres
was able to get ahead of Lando
and you know kind of
split the two McLarens
anyway
and then Lando was gaining again
so you know I
I think the pace is there
but because
Oscar is so competitive as well
and because
he isn't really prone
to making that many errors
there was a Silverstone safety car one
another interesting one
with team orders
because he actually tried
to get the team
to implement team orders
from the cockpit
to sort of set a note
they said
and then they said no
but you know that was
you know we could go into
into all these things
but that was very much
Oscar's error
and he was trying to get
the team to
give him back the position
have him made an error
I think that's very different
to what happened in
in Monza
but yeah you know
it really does right
on Oscar slipping up somewhere
and I
I'm struggling to
figure where that's going to happen
but
you know that's why we keep
chinning
that's why we watch
because
you go into every race
and you know the
you know
a puncture
or
any number of things
can derail a race
but
just on
if they finish
all the races together
to answer your question
I can't see Lando
making the difference
over the Romanian races
but I don't know
if you
if you have a different view
on that
but I think that's
very widespread in Lando
isn't it?
Yeah I think so
it's quite remarkable actually
I think most people
in the paddock
have kind of written
Naras off a bit
and
maybe he's
thriving a bit more
in that environment
I don't know
speaking of
speaking of writing people off
and speaking of
you talked about mistakes that
Oscar has to make
not a bad transition there
I think to
very good
yeah
quite proud of that one
to
somebody who
I actually thought
coming away from the weekend
was
it was disappointing
to see
how they got on
especially given
it was their home race
and that's
Kimi Antonelli
obviously at Mercedes
another difficult weekend for him
at home
a year on from when he
made that famous debut
in practice
and crashed out
on what was it
the you know
the first flying lap
at the end of it
and
it felt
at the end of the weekend
like we saw
the turning point
or at least a
change in tone
maybe from Mercedes
who
I think Mercedes
have been very good
in the way they've
kind of tried to
try to bring
Antonelli into Formula One
you know
he's a teenager
he's
replaced statistically
the greatest driver
of all time
you know it's
pretty much as difficult a challenge
as you could
ask a driver
to
to step into
at
you know the youngest age
they can do it
within the rules
so here's what Toto Wolf
said
about Kimi Antonelli's race
he said
underwhelming this weekend
underwhelming
you can't put the car
in the gravel bed
and expect to be there
all of the race was underwhelming
it doesn't change anything
on my support
and confidence in his future
because I believe
he's going to be
very very good
but today was
underwhelming
so
if you lost count there
that was four times
Toto Wolf said the word
underwhelming
so
just in case you had any doubts
about
you know
how well he was
about
once you know
these performance
I'm just disappointed
you didn't do the act
and they
can you have
a little bit of underwhelming
again with an Austrian accent
yeah
I feel like
there's so many ways
that could go wrong
I'm going to avoid
doing that this week
maybe I'll work on it
for the end of season show
Toto Wolf is always
very good for a quote isn't he
you know
he's got a
he's got a very good grasp
with the English language
and I think he's very good
at the way he
says stuff
but this to me
and I think
maybe I'm wrong on this
but this seemed like the first
time
we'd really seen him
suggest that the patience
I don't say is
wearing out with Antonelli
but
there's now
there's now a
you know
a marked kind of
okay we need to start
seeing this change from you
you know
it's been
it's been the best part
of your whole rookie season now
and I think that
the alarming thing for them
is they're probably not seeing
marked improvements
we obviously had the high point
of the podium in Canada
but if you actually look at the
results around that
and since then
it's really been pretty
desperate
what did you make of what
Toto said there
well to me the stand out
was
that it was a complete 180
from his
post race comments
in Zanvo
and in my mind
I mean
Monza wasn't good
it wasn't
you know
of the standard that Mercedes
probably expect
from Antonelli
but Zanvo was far worse
and
you know
Zanvo was seven days earlier
and I was in
I wasn't in Monza
as I mentioned earlier
but I was in Zanvo
and I went to that
Toto Wolf post race session
and you know
I was one of the
about four journalists
who were asking about Antonelli
and I was asking at you
because I was writing a piece
going into
Monza weekend
which is a great piece
of Antonelli
well I mean kind of
but you know
I look at the headline now
and it was why Mercedes
are keeping the faith in
in Antonelli
and
you know
this was
that I had
I went with that headline
I wrote the story that way
because
there was no other way
to frame it
you know
up to that point
everything that Mercedes has said
is like
you know
look give this guy a break
he's
came in an 18
years old
he's had like
two and a bit years
in cars out of go-karts
we've put all this pressure on him
you know it's partly on us
we've delivered a bad upgrade
all these excuses for
for why Antonelli season
has not gone well
and then
yeah for him to
give such a
such a
damning quote
and
you know
Wolf doesn't say things
by accident
suddenly when he says them
four times
it's not by accident
I
I thought it
I thought it was fascinating
and I
I wonder whether it is
maybe just an element
of tough love
a kind of point
ways like right
you know
we have supported
Kimmy
and we will continue to support Kimmy
but
we can't
keep treating him
like he's not
any other racing driver
who's
you know
worn a Mercedes
race suit
because I think
you know
there were times with
Valtteri
back in the day
where he would just go
missing for
the weekend
maybe two weekends
in a row
and you talk to people
on Mercedes
and there was
similar comments back
you know
they just can't really
explain why
Valtteri was so far off
Lewis
and so
and
you know
it's not completely out of step
for how a team principal
talks about their driver
I just found it so fascinating
that
in the space of one week
they went a complete one
it will
Wolf went a complete
180 on it
but in a way
I think
it's right
that they do need to
to kind of hold Antonelli
to
the same account
that they would
any other driver
and
also when you look at
all the other rookies
this year
it's a bunch of rookies
really impressing
Isaac Hage
Al Gabriel
Bortoletto
to the
you know
real standout
drivers this season
and
they've not had the same pressure
they've not had the same
environment
they're not as young
lots of reasons why
it's not a direct comparison
but they have really impressed
to the point where you're like
those two guys deserve
their place in F1 long term
with Antonelli you're thinking
well the pace is there
but
well you know
there's glimps of the pace
it's not always there
actually in qualifying
but you think
you know
there's enough there
that it's probably there but
but will he ever actually
get it all together
and I guess that's maybe where
Toto's head was on Sunday as well
yeah it seemed to shift to me to
from kind of
fully supportive to
kind of that disappointed dad
you know
when you've
I don't know
you've kind of
you've vomited in the
you know
on the way back from
a night out
in his favorite car
you know
and you've got
you know
it's like
I'm not mad at you
I'm just really disappointed in you
you can't do that again
and you're like
I'm sorry
yeah I'm really sorry about that
you know
and that's where it kind of
I think the age
and that's why the management
of these drivers is so fascinating
because you are dealing with
with a lot of guys
I mean
we were talking earlier in the year
that Antonelli was doing his exams
in tandem with his rookie season
so it's a
you know it's a weird dynamic
to have to manage a guy that age
and it's
it is so much so fast
one of the other things that
was fascinating
he said as well
in that same press conference in
Monda
which sadly I missed
because we were obviously
chasing the McLaren story on that
Sunday
well obviously read the transcript
afterwards
and he said the key
he thinks is just freeing up
the ballast is what he
described it as
isn't it
you know your piece did a great
job of explaining how they feel
they kind of
they traumatized Kimmy a little
bit by giving him that lap
in Monza a year ago
he crashed out
and you know
he took on so much guilt about that
he felt like he let the team down
it's almost like that's a little scar
a little bit that
you know maybe is rearing his ugly
head and maybe
you know going back to Monza as well
was was stuff for him
but there's also this fear
with Mercedes
or this feeling with Mercedes
they're very confident
aren't they about next season
and you can't have a situation where
you go into next year
I think all of us
you know I think most people in the
paddock and most fans of F1
would agree that when Mercedes
or if Mercedes have a championship
contending car
you'd expect George Russell to be
right in that mixture
he's one of those drivers that
you'd imagine is ready to seize that
moment
Antonelli
you know you look at what
how Red Bull have struggled to win
the constructors for the last year
and a half
you can't have a driver doing that
at the front end so
I think that's got to be in the
mind as well
it's like right where the back stretch
now
we're going to a bunch of
you know we've got Baku
we've got Singapore
you know some difficult races coming up
they need to almost
kind of see some differences
from Antonelli
and obviously from Tota Wars perspective
I suppose as well where
maybe he thinks there needs to be a
change of tack is
they don't have another driver
it's not like they can sign someone else
they're committed now
to Russell and Antonelli
even though it's
you know Russell's not fully signed yet
there's no one else they're going to sign
so
this is a long-term project
they've embarked on
and yeah
I agree with everything you said
it just felt
it felt telling that the
that the attitude had changed there
great thing for Mercedes is
the talent clearly is there
we've seen it
it's just it's just harnessing it
you know to get back to where he was earlier in the year
yeah I think your point on 2026 is right actually
because if I think back to what Toto said
in Zanvor
he did
end two of the answers saying
this year we're not fighting for a construct
as I can forgive it
kind of the implication being next year
they intend to be
and and maybe it wouldn't be so forgivable then
so I think that's a
a very very good point
not least because
you know
this isn't a
2014 situation for Mercedes
going into the next set of engine regulations
and not least because
you know they can't guarantee they'll be as far ahead
but they also have a customer team
that right now
is beating them
and if you look at the driver pairing
of Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri
and George Russell
and Kimmy Antonelli
and you put all four drivers
in more or less equal machinery
the one driver there
who you're going to point to
is probably going to let one team down
and they're going to lose the constructors
is Kimmy based on his current performance
or his current mistakes
and so that I think is a very good point
and that is perhaps
you're right
why
Toto
maybe maybe it's all been very well planned out
when do we start to just you know
try kind of
a few different approaches with him
just to get him in that right place
since 2006
so yeah very good point
yeah and it's best to
have him
hearing the more critical stuff now
than start of next year
when maybe it's a bit too much room
but yeah I think
very interesting one to monitor as well
because
as you said rightly
the
this has really been a great season
for rookies and
at the start of the year
Antonelli was kind of like
oh he's the cream of the crop of the
the bunch
it seems like it's flipped around now
you know it's gone the other way
just quickly on
on rookies
there was another one in the headlines
in Monza
Oliver Berman
ironically
a year on from replacing Magnuson
for
a
who got a race ban
at Baku
Berman is going to Baku now
two points away from
a race ban for that incident with
Carlos Sainz
lads you've written a lot about
racing rules
and
you know
the inconsistencies
and the kind of
the weird precedent set
what do you make first of all of that
penalty
specifically
and just
as a follow-up point
should
have to be worried
because I think
what I like about Berman is
he's
he's one of these guys that does get
stuck in doesn't he
in these
in these moments
it's been a
he's maybe been quite up and down
in terms of the way he's gone
racing
I've liked what I've seen but
you know
out of all the drivers
out of all those rookies there
you look at Berman
yeah he has got himself kind of
stuck in the middle of a lot
those situations quite a bit
yeah so
the racing rules
thing first of all
I think
is concerning
and highlights the
issues that
we have with
Stewarding in form one the moment
because
there was the one in Monza
then there was another one involved
with in Carlos Sainz
as Anvor with Liam Lawson
where
Sainz tried to go around
the outside and
and was
it was blamed for the collision
there even though he didn't
really do anything
obviously
wrong in a
kind of normal racing
setting but
because we have these rules
where it's all about
who has
their axle alongside
or far enough alongside
at the apex
you then start to extrapolate
penalties from
from
from that point
and sometimes a lot of
the rest of the logic
of what's going on
doesn't play out
and so
the stewards are doing the right
thing by the book
they've been given
and
if they were to do something
against that
they may well face
you know an appeal
or they'd be
certainly
being told that
they're breaking precedence
from the past or
or the precedence
that built up the
the racing guidelines
and so you have this situation now
where they're
they're actually
almost sticking too much to the book
because
their hands are tied a little bit
and we're getting these weird decisions
because
in my mind
to go back to the
Berman
Sainz one
Berman would have had to make his car
disappear
to
you know
or just not contest the corner
at all
to know exactly where it would be
by the time they
got to the apex
so
I think
you know that's
that's an issue
and that is
problematic
going forward
because
you know
there's this
striving for consistency
and you could argue that
well
you know
because it stuck to
these guidelines that the
stewards have
it was consistent with
what's gone
in the past
but it
sometimes just doesn't take in the
nature of
of the way that corner is
being contested over years
and years and years
and also kind of just
what looks right
what looks like
it should be a penalty
when it looks like a driver
is fully to blame
which is what
you should
fully or predominantly
you have to be
so in order to trigger a penalty
for causing a collision
and you know
I think that was a racing instant
and
this is
as long as I've been in F1
this argument's been going around
around around
and there was this big period when
Nikki Lauda who
I think everyone in the paddock
respected
for many reasons but
above all maybe for
for what he did on the track
and you know
and the ethics of going racing
and all that kind of stuff
and he would just say
let them race
you know
let them race
racing instance
it's not
it's part of the sport
that when you're contesting
a corner
and you're breaking from
nearly 200 miles per hour
like they are
into that second chicane
down to such a slow speed
those kind of judgments
are going to end up with
with racing instance
with collisions
there's going to be times
when a driver completely
makes a mistake
takes the F1 out
penalty there
there's going to be
perhaps instance
where a driver
intends to take the F1 out
absolutely a penalty
in that instance
but when we get to the point
where
Berman had no choice
but to press the
harsh disappear button
or get a second penalty
you do wonder
what's going on
and then of course
if you know
it leads to this race ban
it seems very harsh indeed
yeah I think the
harsh disappear button
would be a great addition
to the 2020
Greg's
if I'm honest with you
just to talk about
yeah just having an invisible
cargo around
yeah I think
I mean
I there's nothing
I disagree with
what you said
I think the most
frustrating thing
about Formula 1
generally
is that every time
you see an instant
now
it's so difficult to work out
what the
what the verdict is going to be
I mean you look at
we talk about
that with Sainz
in Zambia
at Monza
he obviously had that moment
with Liam Lawson
in Zambia
where
Lawson kind of
drifted into him
a little bit
and
I thought to be honest
that was more
racing incident
in the sense of like
didn't seem like
Lawson was in full control
but it was
start of a
you know
restart and everything
but Sainz was
apoplectic about that
as I think you should have
been with the penalty there
and then you
and it just shows you
you know if
some one week of
driver is on the receiving
end of something
outrageously controversial
and in the next week
they benefit from it
you know
in two weeks time
there might be
an instant
not involving Sainz
but he thinks
well that's ridiculous
because it
you know it affected
my race in some way
and it's just
it's a shame
that there's always
this nagging storyline
every single Grand Prix
we go to
you know it seems like
there's
another racing instant there
and I
I'm the same as you
you know I hope it
doesn't lead to a
a ban
for a driver
I mean obviously
if
Berman gets himself
two more points
justifiably
then
you know that's on him
because he knows the
situation he's in but
but yeah messy
and I don't know
I don't know how
Formula One solves this
because we've been
I feel like
we've been talking about it
for years and years and years
you know do we have
permanent stewards
do they
it just
you know it feels like
it feels like
something has to be done
to address it
I think permanent stewards
is a must
really going forward
just to have that consistency
the long-standing argument
is that
you'll then get
accusations of bias
you know we're very
used to this
and for all right now
but you will get actually
some of the bias
because you have the same people
making the same decisions
and if a series of
decisions goes against a
certain driver
they start saying well
this guy doesn't like me
and he's on the permanent
stewards and
what can we do
but you know there are
four stewards on there
as well for a reason
you know they are supposed
to talk it talking out
and if there is
one view you know
that they're supposed to
counter it and
and come to a conclusion
based on
on all the facts available
and then obviously
deliver that
as well
and I think the other issue
where I mean the
the problem we're going
into now as well
is that drivers
know the rules
you know they've all read
that rule but
you know
Formula One's only
than we have
and so they'll go
into a corner
half knowing
well if I just let off the
brakes here
I have the rights of the
corner
and it's the other person
if a collision happens
it's the other person's fault
I release them
I'm not going to get a penalty
and then this way
I'm going to keep the
position because the
other person's going to
have to go off track
whatever
and so you have all these
all you know
all the issues where
where drivers are
starting to
yeah game the system a bit
and I think the only way
around it is
is to
you know certainly
have some
some rules around it
but the
the acknowledgement and
you know to be fair to
Michael Massey
this is something that he's to
say when he was race director
and we used to talk to him
after races
about decisions
and bear in mind
he was not the one
making the decisions
it was still the stewards
that were making decisions
there
he was the race director
so he would only ever
reference things to the
stewards to make a decision
but he would often have to
defend it after the race
and you know
he it
when we point out
inconsistencies from one
race to the next
or one circuit to the next
it's a
you know
every corner is different
every racing corner is
different
and then
even if you have an incident
at the same corner
the exact
the the cars are very rarely in
exactly or comparable position
there's always
some you know
other things going on
and so to have this one rule
or you know
you know one set of rules
that then applies to
every corner on the calendar
and every potential situation
two cars can get into
it's
it's obviously going to create
these these blind spots
and and these
well not consistent
consistent decisions
consistent decisions
but decisions that just don't
feel right
and so yeah that's the issue
that uh
that we go ourselves in
yeah
frustrating one indeed
for a lot of fans
um
we're gonna
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now
it would be remiss of us
if we did not mention
after all of this
the man that won
the Italian Grand Prix
and he is who
the start of the week
is about
and Lawrence
I don't know if you knew this
but
Max secured his first win
at Monza
since May
the Emilia Romagna Grand Prix
breaking an
eight race
winless drought
now
for a lot of drivers
you say okay
an eight eight eight race
without a win
that's that's fine
that's
we've not
we've not really been
used to that
with Max Verstappen
for a long time
you know the guy
does not go
that long
without winning races
very often
you know if you think
about 22-23
even 24 last year
you know when
McLaren came back into it
I was so impressed with Max
this weekend
I mean
I know we've said that a lot
this season
but this
felt like it was kind of
right out of the top draw
of the kind of
vintage Max Verstappen collection
and I think what was so
encouraging
from
the perspective of seeing
improvements of Red Bull was
and
you know we can get into this
in a little bit
if you want but
it seemed as well
and there was
Max talked about it
Helmut Marco talked about it
that
both credited
Laura Mechies
and the way
the approach to setting up the car
has changed
since he took over the team
obviously
since he took over
they won the sprint in Belgium
the podium in Zanvo
and then a win
at Monza
so that car
hasn't fundamentally changed
since
since July
has it
you know
there's obviously
always upgrades
and little things
going on to the car
but it's not like
it's a new car
from
from then
so clearly something going well
and
that Monza race
was just
classic wasn't it
when Max
is in the groove
and he has a car
underneath him
that is doing
what he wants it to do
I mean
even when he doesn't have
that car
underneath him
he's still
pretty damn good
but when he's
when he's
like that
he's just on
he's untouchable
and that was the biggest
winning margin
all season
and he had two McLarens
behind him
which this season
is pretty remarkable
I don't know if you saw
Bortoletto's radio message
after the race
where he was just like
just in awe
of
of how Max did
going forward
Lars
do you think
are we going to see a little bit
of what happened
with Ferrari
last year
that
Red Bull kind of
resurg a little bit
and become a
a victory contender
again in the second half
the season
I'm not saying
they'll be in the championship
fight
like Ferrari was last year
but
does this feel like
Red Bull is back
or was that very
those two races
Zanvo and Monza
were they a bit more
track specific
do you think
well Monza
especially is
very specific
and it almost
comes down to
how much
effort anyone team
is willing to spend on
trimming out the wings
and bringing a
Monza specific package
because
the downforce level
you run there
you're not going to run
anywhere
for the rest of the year
unless
you hadn't bothered to bring
a Monza specific
package
and you
just bought a downforce one
that you're going to use
him back as well
but it's
yes very very specific
so not only is it
a specific
kind of car configuration
it's also very specific
in terms of
what you need from the car
and the setup
and what works there
maybe
maybe won't work somewhere
somewhere else
but I don't want to take away
anything from
the Red Bull victory
there were
another couple of factors
they did have a new floor
on Max's car
not on Yuki's car
but on Max's car
so you know
that's interesting
that the development
has actually
just continued this
fine to the year
you know we've often
talked about
all teams not working on
2025 anymore
that's true in terms of
what the design office is doing
but there's still sometimes
like these you know
their
parts in the system
in the pipeline
that are still coming out
so
I don't know how much more
they've got planned
but it's
I think it was probably
pretty reassuring for them
that they had that
and then
there was also interesting
this thing to Max
and maybe this
ties into
what you're saying about
Laura and Mekki as well
and his impact on the team
is that Max was saying
there was a set of direction
that he
wanted to take
you know
kind of seemed a little bit
abstract
obviously they didn't give
any details
because that's
the intellectual property
and then
they need to keep that
but
but he did say
that they just went
in this direction
that he was
more happy with
and and they were able to
balance the car
which is something
which I haven't done
so much of this year
how much of that
was the floor
contributing to that
don't know
at this stage
but it was
it was positive
but
I would say any situation
where Carl wins in Monza
I wouldn't then extrapolate
that to
right they're going to be a
competitor
everywhere else
it's a bit like when
Mercedes won in
Canada earlier this year
with George Russell
and they you know
they look like
they had the best car
that weekend
well that performance
never came back
and so
again that's a very specific
circuit where
you need
you know
a very specific
set up
window
and and
Mercedes got it right
that weekend
and Red Bull got it right
this weekend in Monza
and
but
I'd yeah
I still think
going into the remainder of the
season
the McLarens
are the ones
are the favourites
but
wouldn't it make it fascinating
if
Max Verstappen in a Red Bull
can put himself in between
those two cars at times
maybe one of the points
difference
whichever way it goes
I mean it might just mean
that we finish a season
much earlier with Oscar
as a champion
but maybe it goes the other way as well
yeah I did think that
because you know
if you're talking about a
seven point swing
versus 10 point swings
from your first versus third
but also I think it's
Monza to me
was obviously
if you
wind the clock back to the beginning of the season
I remember Japan
the way we were talking about Max
you know the reverence to Max
and
what he was doing with
what was widely considered to be a pretty
you know
not easy Red Bull to drive
at the time we were like
is he in the title fight
is this a three-way fight
and obviously very quickly we learned
that
that was not the case
but it was just a shame
and Monza
you were just thinking man
if Max was in the title fight
and just to go back a bit
to where we were talking about McLaren
it'd be so good
and
it would also be fascinating to see how well
McLaren
and how gutsy they felt
sticking to some of the calls they've made
like
the pit stop one
would they
would they be
messing around with
okay you guys switch positions now
because
obviously they're in a luxury position to be doing that
if Max and Red Bull were in the fight
you feel like if they were trying to do that
you know
maybe there'd be complications
but maybe they'd have abandoned it completely
so
a real shame we haven't seen that
that three-way fight unfold
but
like you say
it could um
could have some ramification later in the season
we're going to finish with something we did earlier in the year
and um
you know we
we talk a lot don't we about
drivers having great moments
and bad moments
and whatever
we're going to pretend for a moment
that instead of working for ESB
and we work in the city of London
and we're going to do some stock watch
on some drivers
and our producer Quentin has
picked out a few drivers for us to say
are we buying selling or holding these drivers
and I love
I love the concept of this
because it's purely subjective
and it's a bit like playing
NFL fantasy dynasty
you know you can convince yourself
either way
what you're doing
so
I'll fire you
as you fire one back at me
and we'll go back and forth
I'll fire to you first
a man who's been in the news a lot lately
but just because he's been
in the middle of incidents
Carlos Sainz
what are you saying
so I checked
just kind of trying to do a bit of research here
and yeah
Sainz is
just point scoring
over the last few races
has been particularly bad
last time we did it in the Grand Prix
was in Canada
he did get points at the Spa sprint race
so there was a slight uptick there
but I think he's been made to look
yeah
I don't want to say ordinary
because Carlos Sainz isn't
he's a very good driver
but Albon I think has exceeded a lot of expectations this year
in how well he's gone against Carlos
now there's lots of reasons for that
and actually I think if you
analyze each of Carlos's
performances recently
there are you know things that
have gone against him
should have gone his way
there were actually way more points to
his performance was
was allowing him to access
but he didn't quite get
but I think there is just this
wider kind of thought
you know
is Sainz really
you know that
a better driver than Albon
or is he actually you know
able to match Albon
and for that reason
if I
I think everyone else right now
probably would be selling
Carlos Sainz stock
if we had this imaginary market
so I'd probably jump
jump in on that and try and
sell some before the price
goes down too much
but maybe I mean
the thing with Carlos is that
he's
he is a
very intelligent driver
he's a very
you know solid driver
and I do think he'll get it right
and I think when you have a
rules reset into 2026 as well
that'll be his opportunity
to level up with Albon
and now a level playing field
which coming into the team this year
perhaps he hasn't had
but yeah
I'd say right now
I'll be selling Carlos
interesting
yeah I think I would agree with that
I mean
yeah
I think everything you said is fair
and I've got to say
this season has been great
if we're doing stock
for Alex Albon
you know it's really
I think every year he bolsters his
reputation but it's massively
bolstered
the way we should view him
because he's you know
what he's doing against every
teammate he has
is pretty remarkable
so
right I've got a final one back
at you
Isaac Hadjar
I feel like this is a much
easier one
yeah I feel bad
about how great he is
pretty straightforward
I'm buying as much Isaac Hadjar
I'm buying as much Isaac Hadjar
stocks I could get
you know
I'm actually selling other stock
to buy more Isaac Hadjar
you know remortgaging the house
for Isaac Hadjar
I think he's great
obviously
slightly tougher weekend for him
but that was relative to
getting a podium at Zambor
and I think we've seen so much
from him
especially
since kind of the
Monaco onwards
he just really stepped up
into you know
a really great place
and clearly has a great future
ahead of him
whether that future will be great
if he steps up to Red Bull
maybe I'd be a bit more reluctant to buy
but I
out of all the drivers we've seen
maybe he is the guy who can kind of
stop that curse of being
Max Verstappen's teammate
I don't know
sorry I know we talked about this
last week didn't we
how actually maybe that is the
perfect time to go in
in 2026
and I think actually Hadjar
said something so I wasn't
following all the media day stuff
because it wasn't wasn't at the track
a Monzo
but he said something similar
like he was very
open to the idea of
going to Red Bull
he said well if it's next year
it's great
what I wouldn't like to see is them
put him in this year
as tempting as that may be
because of Yuki's struggles
that's where I think there'd be
there's a potential of burning him out
but
I think next year is actually
in a way
if you're gonna make the step to Red Bull
and that is his career trajectory
assuming where he is
you go next year
yeah I agree
keeping it with the rookies
and this
I think is another easy one
last time it was by
and I think it might be the same
Gabriel Bortoletto
what are you saying
yeah I've been buying
Gabriel Bortoletto stop
ever since we last spoke
I think about this
you've been nothing but Bortoletto stop
have you
I like to think it's added to some
of his confidence behind the wheel
but
I have heard that
I have heard that
he only
he only stepped it up once
he knew that
you know that we were
that we were invested
no but I mean
full credit to that guy
he's been
fantastic
100%
I was actually
because I suggested that we
we talked Bortoletto
and realised we'd already said
last time around
that it was
you know it was
it was an upward trajectory say
yeah I think he's
fantastic
his qualifying performances
against Nico Alkenberg
arguably I think makes him
the standout
rookie ahead of Hajar
so
yeah if you'll remit
mortgage in your house for Hajar
I'm probably going to say Bortoletto
well hopefully we'll have a nice
out on the back
yeah
okay right
so here's
okay now you've got a tricky one
where you might say some
yeah some slight negative things
Lewis Hamilton
are you buying or selling stock
in North Hamilton
or holding it
I
I think I'm going to be selling
last time we held on Hamilton
and already things weren't going
brilliantly
we held because we weren't sure
and I think it would
I think sell now
because I just
I've got to the point with
with Lewis at Ferrari
where it feels
we've talked about
Toto Wolf saying
underwhelming
about Antonelli
I think he used the same word
about Lewis at Ferrari
bar that China weekend
there hasn't really been anything
that was
that was incredible vintage
old Lewis
and it also just doesn't feel
like Ferrari is really in a place
where for the time being
we're going to see a huge amount
from them
and if we do
I think Charles de Klerk's
the guy doing it
he's been the guy
getting the podiums
at Grand Prix
he's been the guy
getting you know
he got pole position
earlier in the season
so
I just
I don't at this point
if it's if it's a buying
stock in Lewis Hamilton in
2026
I still don't know
because I just
I don't know whether Lewis
you know has
has kind of
been off more than he can chew
with this Ferrari thing
it doesn't
we've talked about this before
haven't we but
it just does not feel like
everything on both sides
I'm not blaming one side
over the other
doesn't feel like everything
has clicked together
in the way it needed to do
yeah with Lewis coming in
with everything he brings
with you know
with his experience
but also
with the ego of a seven-time
world champion
and everything Ferrari needed to do
which maybe you know
to adapt a little bit to that
and it feels like
something hasn't quite clicked
and there's obviously
you know
some frustration behind the scenes
he did seem happy in Monza
I mean
he joked at one point
he's like
okay I spent all this time
dreaming of being in Monza
I'm bloody wearing blue
instead of red
which I thought was quite funny
I did feel for him on that
because I
I was kind of like
I must have been wins this race
and he's still on the podium
you know in a blue
in a blue race suit
but yeah
for the time being
I'm saying sell on Hamilton
just because
I just
for that there just hasn't
really been anything
beyond
it's either been average or
underwhelming since China
and really
he's had enough time I think to
get on top of it now
so what do you think
yeah
I'd agree
I think everything you said
is hard to argue against
and in fact
you know these last two races
in Zambol and Monza
seem to have
they've given him
extra confidence it seems
it seems he's happier
with what was going on in the team
I mean that's all positive
but then if you look at the results
you know a DNF
through an accident
I know there were
explanations he said that
the team were giving about
dodgy downshift into that corner
as to why he spun off at
Zambol and all the rest of it
but still to be
you know to come out relatively
satisfied with DNF
and a sixth place finish
because you start with a grip penalty
in in Zambol
that's kind of concerning in itself
to
because that's not the Lewis that
you know
used to exist in Mercedes I think
I think that's it isn't it
that would not have been satisfying
so I mean while I understand
you've got to start
somewhere and if he was in a very low
point in Hungary
which he clearly was
you've got to build back up
and small gains
how it happens
it doesn't all happen at once
so the trajectory at least now looks
like it
it could be right
and that would be a good reason to
buy
because you're getting early
on the trajectory going
yeah you'd be buying
you'd be buying low I guess
yeah but that there's still
where warning signs for me that
you know he
would be
yeah kind of starting to find
with those results
yeah I feel like with Lewis the
I think there is such a thing as
aura when
you're talking about great drivers
you know they
and great athletes generally
you know they there's something
about when they step on the core
or the pitch or the you know
into the car
they give off a certain
confidence and
belief
they're going to do something
and that
to me just seems
it definitely waned a bit at Mercedes
but there's just been something
about
I feel like he maybe has started to
doubt that in him
in a bigger way since last year
and that
like you said is
is ultimately quite concerning
definitely I wonder what an issue
with that was there was so high
at the start of the year I mean
seeing Lewis in red overalls
was
yeah that's true
it was such a big fight
and you know the
iterations were built so much
around
before it even had a chance to
properly drive the car
you know
and yeah
and I mean just think back to F175
the noise when they came out
the two of them
and actually you
we mentioned about how good
this year has been for Albonne's
stock
Charles Ecclert this year
to what he's done alongside Lewis
has been
you know has just raised him
and his name
we knew how good he was
but I think it's been like
the confirmation
and I think maybe Lewis has been
surprised by that as well so
yeah interesting that we both said
sell
both down on
on Lewis
one last one
and I think this is a
sadly is an inevitable one
because I know we both like him
as a driver
Yuki Sonoda
it's a pretty straightforward one
to me
yeah
you know there's
there are reasons for
for something's going wrong and
and he's always seems to be
at least
one update
behind
Max Verstappen
you know which all goes
please back into our talk
the start of the season about
sorry the start season
the start of the podcast about
teams treating drivers fairly
I mean clearly
I you know I don't think Sonoda
can be
judged against Max for a number of
reasons
but one of which is
seemingly the car isn't there
but even taking all that into
account
the performances aren't good enough
for the moment
you know they're just not
that Max went and won
Monza by
how many seconds was it
20 seconds or so
you know you can't
you can't be
and I know he had collisions
and the car lost performance
during the race
but you can't be that far off
your teammate
when the car is that good
it needs to be better
and he's now had that period of
time
a rebel
not a perfect period to get
himself up and running
like I said from the start of the
season
would have loved to have him in
in pre-season testing
given every opportunity
but
but still
it's now again to a point
where it's quite hard
to justify
Sonoda in the car
next year
and I think
you know
the next few races
have to be a complete
another turnaround
for that perception to change
and I don't see that happening
so
to protect my
my money as much as I love Yuki
I'd be
obviously selling
because what
it seems like the writing is
is
kind of on the wall now
about what happens in his career
going forward
and then
where does he go next
yeah but that's a
million dollar question
I hope he stays informed of one
you know I think we've seen
enough from him
that suggests he
you know he can be quick
but yeah I just
I do think as well with Yuki
and we're probably all guilty of this
it's a bit like when Danny Rick was
struggling
yeah with with McLaren
and when he came back
I think because he's so popular
I think he's
I think he's had
a bit of an easy ride this year
obviously we know the car
is not in a great place
but
you hit the nail on the head
you know
you just
cannot be this bad
compared to teammate
and there's only so many times
you can say
well the curse of the red ball
you know the
like
come on
you know that
there's got to be
and we all thought
Laura Meckies maybe would help
unlock some of that
so yeah I think Sel
and it's
it's it
it is depressing
because I think
Yuki going there was such a big
opportunity
and such
such a deserved opportunity
and it's just
kind of crumbled around
and we didn't even
obviously that happened
to Perez
at Red Bull
but Perez has already won
a bunch of races
by the time that happened
he had been able to kind of
get race wins
and podiums etc
so
it's a shame for
for Yuki but
yeah
I don't
I don't see a world
where he stays with that team
next season sadly
which yeah
is good news
if you're
if you're
like me
and you've also bought
Isaac had your stock
so
you know
it works out pretty well
in this game
so
so yeah
that was
that was stock watch
for this week
and we'll keep coming back to
that
intermittently
through the season
and we'll see just how bad
or how good our
our stock market playing
has been
Lawrence
thank you very much my friend
as always
for joining
and to everyone listening
thank you so much
I promise next week
I've got a bit of a gravely
voice
and if you've noticed that
Nicole or Katie's voice
will be
hopefully gracing your earbuds
again by then
obviously as we ramp up
towards the Baku Grand Prix
so thank you so much for
watching and for listening
and remember
as I said earlier
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about
Ben Nevis
the biggest
the tallest mountain in the UK
myself and three friends
are hiking that
and we're raising money
for Roald Dahl's
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in the UK
I've got a link in my Twitter bio
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place you can follow me
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JustGiving.com
forward slash
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very very smart
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you could donate
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of moderate fitness
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for reminding me
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thank you very much
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