Car
Ford Expedition
The Ford Expedition is a large SUV meant for carrying people and gear. It’s built for longer trips and towing, so it’s commonly used for family travel and outdoor activities. The podcast mentions it in the context of an adventure-focused setup.
Car
Wrangler Rubicon
The Jeep Wrangler is an SUV designed for off-road driving. It’s made to handle rough trails and still be usable day to day. The podcast is pointing out that different versions can share the same basic off-road setup.
Car
Jeep JK
A Jeep JK is a Wrangler generation. The host is saying it’s a good everyday Jeep because it’s versatile and easier to work on yourself than some other Jeep setups.
Term
DIY serviceability
“DIY serviceability” means how easy it is to work on the vehicle yourself. The host is saying the Jeep JK is easier to maintain if you do your own work.
Car
JT Gladiators
The Jeep Gladiator JT is a specific generation of the Gladiator pickup. The discussion is about how its different configurations can make things less consistent than the Wrangler JK.
Term
engine platforms
“Engine platforms” here means the main types of engines a vehicle uses. If there are only a couple, it’s usually easier to know what parts and repairs will apply.
Term
axle package
An “axle package” is the vehicle’s rear/front axle setup (the parts that help deliver power to the wheels). Different packages can mean different parts and different repair complexity.
Term
tow packages
A “tow package” is a set of factory upgrades meant to help the truck or Jeep tow more safely. It can include extra hardware and changes that make the vehicle different from other trims.
Term
towing limits
“Towing limits” are the maximum amounts a vehicle is rated to tow. Different tow packages can change those ratings because the vehicle may have different supporting parts.
Term
rear axle
The rear axle is basically the part that connects the two back wheels. If the rear brakes wear out faster, it means the back wheels are doing more of the braking work in that situation.
Term
drum rear
“Drum rear” means the back brakes use a drum mechanism instead of a disc. Different brake types can wear at different rates, so the host is pointing to that difference.
Part
front brakes
Front brakes are the brakes on the front wheels. When you stop, the car’s weight shifts forward, so the front brakes usually do more work than the rear brakes.
Term
drums
“Drums” means drum brakes. They work by pushing brake pads (shoes) against the inside of a metal drum when you brake.
Car
Chevrolet S10
The Chevrolet S10 is a small pickup truck. The host is using it to show that, on some trucks, the rear drum brakes can wear much more slowly than the front brakes.
Part
rear shoes
Rear shoes are the braking surfaces inside drum brakes. They press against the inside of the drum when you brake to slow the truck down.
Term
disc
“Disc” means disc brakes. They use a spinning metal rotor and a clamp to squeeze brake pads against it to slow the vehicle.
Car
Jaguar Xjs
The Jaguar XJ-S is a sports coupe made for long-distance driving and performance. People talk about it because it has a specific brake setup that can change depending on the year. The podcast is referencing that brake configuration as part of how these cars are maintained.
Concept
catalyst shift
A “catalyst shift” is basically a turning point. In this case, the host is saying the brake setup on trucks started changing around the early 2000s.
Term
brake lathes
A brake lathe is a tool shop machine that cleans up and smooths worn brake parts. It can be used to rework rotors, and some machines can also rework drum brake surfaces.
Term
multi-process lathes
A multi-process lathe is a machine that can do multiple kinds of machining jobs. Here, it’s being described as able to work on different brake parts, not just one type.
Term
rotors
Rotors are the disc-brake friction surfaces that clamp under the brake pads to slow the car. When rotors get uneven or glazed, they may be resurfaced (turned) to restore a consistent braking surface.
Car
Chevrolet C10
The Chevrolet C10 is an older pickup truck, especially known from the early 1970s. People keep them running by replacing wear items like brakes and rotors. The podcast is bringing it up as an example of that kind of maintenance.
Term
ceramic
Here “ceramic” is about the material used in some brake pads. It’s often marketed as making brakes quieter and producing less dust, but results can vary by brand and design.
Term
brake types
“Brake types” means different kinds of brake pad materials. Different materials can feel different (quiet vs. noisy, more dust vs. less dust) and can wear rotors differently.
Concept
heavily recycled materials
They’re talking about brake parts being made from a lot of recycled material. The concern is that recycled inputs can change how consistent the braking material is and how well it holds up over time.
Term
white box
“White box” usually means the part is sold in plain packaging with no big brand name on it. People often use it to describe cheaper, more generic replacement parts.
Term
pitting
Pitting means the surface has little holes or craters. That kind of damage can make things work less smoothly and can be a sign of wear or corrosion.
Term
contact patch
The contact patch is the part of the tire that’s touching the road. If it’s worn or damaged, the tire can grip worse and wear unevenly.
Concept
axle swap
An axle swap means taking the axle assembly from one vehicle and putting it into another. It’s a bigger job than just changing a part—because the axle has to match what the rest of the car is expecting.
Term
VIN
VIN is a vehicle’s unique ID number. When you’re swapping parts between cars, the VIN helps confirm exactly which vehicle the parts came from.
Car
Rubicon axles
Rubicon is a Jeep trim that’s built for off-roading. “Rubicon axles” means using the axle parts from that Rubicon model, which can be different from the axles on other trims.
Term
HD brake kit
“HD brake kit” means a stronger, upgraded set of brakes. They’re talking about which brake package comes on certain Jeep trims, especially for off-road use.
Term
HD package
An “HD package” is an option bundle that adds stronger, heavy-duty parts. In this case, they’re saying it should include the upgraded HD brakes.
Car
Dodge Ram
The Dodge Ram is a pickup truck. It’s made for hauling and towing, and it can be set up for different needs depending on the model. The podcast is referencing it as a truck “Ram” rather than a specific SUV.
Term
brake pads got low
Brake pads wear out as you drive. Some cars have a built-in warning that starts making a chirping sound when the pads are getting too thin.
Term
noise complaints
Sometimes drivers complain when brakes make annoying sounds. To avoid that, brake parts may be designed so the warning chirp happens less or differently.
Term
tow capacities
Tow capacity is how much weight your vehicle is rated to tow safely. When you tow more, you need brakes that can handle the extra stopping effort.
Brand
Rubicon brakes
“Rubicon” is a Jeep Wrangler trim made for serious off-roading. “Rubicon brakes” means the brake setup that matches that tougher, off-road-oriented version.
Term
HD
“HD” means “heavy-duty.” It’s a stronger brake setup meant to last longer and handle more heat, like when you tow or drive off-road.
Term
big big brake kits
A “big brake kit” is an upgrade that gives you bigger, stronger brakes. It helps the brakes stop better and stay cooler when you’re working them hard.
Term
bedding the surfaces
When you “bed in” new brakes, you’re basically breaking them in properly. It helps the pad and rotor wear together in a controlled way so braking feels smoother and lasts longer.
Term
break in process
The “break in process” for brakes is the early-use procedure that conditions new pads and rotors. Done correctly, it helps establish a stable friction surface and reduces issues like uneven wear or noise.
Term
pad rotor combination
Brakes work as a pair: the pad and the rotor. Bedding helps them “match up” so they stop more evenly and predictably.
Term
ABS pulsing
ABS is the system that prevents the wheels from locking up during hard braking. During brake bedding, you try not to trigger ABS because it can interfere with the break-in process.
Term
parking brake assemblies
The parking brake assembly is the mechanism that keeps the car from rolling when it’s parked. It’s made up of multiple parts, and if those parts don’t work well, the parking brake may not hold as strongly.
Term
drum brake
A drum brake is a brake system where pads (shoes) push against the inside of a metal drum to slow the car down. If the drum is smaller, there’s less friction surface to do the work.
Term
rotor hat
The rotor hat is the part of the brake rotor that bolts to the hub. In this design, the parking brake drum is built into that area, which can affect how strong the parking brake feels.
Term
surface area
Surface area is basically how much “grippy” contact you have between the brake parts. If there’s less contact area, the brake may not hold as strongly.
Term
e-brake
“E-brake” is what people commonly call the parking brake. It’s the brake you use to keep the car from rolling when it’s parked.
Term
parking brakes
Parking brakes are what keep your car from rolling when it’s parked. If they’re not adjusted right, they may not hold the car securely.
Term
caliper
In disc brakes, the caliper is the part that clamps down on the brake pads to slow the car. The episode is saying some setups build the parking-brake function into that same caliper.
Car
Jeep Cj7
The Jeep CJ7 is a classic off-road Jeep that many owners modify. Here, the host talks about upgrading it by switching to disc brakes.
Term
stick shift
“Stick shift” means a manual transmission. You choose gears with a shifter and use the clutch pedal to change gears.
Term
mechanical brakes
Mechanical brakes use physical linkages (like cables or rods) to move the brakes. They can get weak or unreliable if the linkage stretches or isn’t adjusted well.
Term
hydraulic brakes
Hydraulic brakes use brake fluid to send pressure from the pedal to the brake parts. That usually makes braking feel more consistent and effective.
Term
bell cranks
Bell cranks are small lever parts that help move force from the pedal to the brakes. If you remove them, the brakes may not get enough movement to work properly.
Term
torque multipliers
Torque multipliers are parts that help “multiply” the force from your foot or hand so the brakes can clamp down. If they’re removed, the brakes may not work because there isn’t enough force.
Car
Jeep XJ
The Jeep XJ is the Cherokee generation that a lot of people build and modify. The speaker brings it up because they did a swap on an XJ and had to deal with brake setup details.
Term
internal parking brake
This is the parking brake mechanism that’s built inside the brake setup. They’re saying the metal backing plate is important because it supports the small pins and parts that make the parking brake work.
Term
backing plate
A backing plate is the metal base the parking-brake parts bolt or sit on. If it’s not right, the pins and hardware can’t be held securely.
Term
pins
Pins are small metal pieces that keep the parking-brake parts positioned correctly. They’re saying the backing plate must be strong enough to hold those pins.
Term
ABS sensor
The ABS sensor helps your car know how fast each wheel is spinning. If it’s broken or not set up right, the anti-lock brakes may not work properly.
Term
aftermarket support
Aftermarket support means there are lots of parts available from other brands, not just the car maker. That can make repairs easier and cheaper.
Term
DIY friendly service
A DIY-friendly service is a repair or maintenance job that’s practical for an owner to do at home with reasonable tools and instructions. The speaker is emphasizing that brakes can be DIY, but the details matter.
Term
high quality installation
High quality installation means following the correct procedures when installing brake components—torque specs, proper seating, and correct alignment. Poor installation can cause noise, uneven wear, or reduced braking performance.
Term
approved brake grease
Approved brake grease is a specialized lubricant formulated for brake hardware (like caliper slides and contact points). Using the wrong grease can contaminate brake pads/rotors or break down under heat, leading to sticking or noise.
Term
fluid
Brake fluid is the hydraulic fluid that transfers force from the brake pedal to the calipers. If it’s contaminated or handled incorrectly during service, braking feel and performance can suffer.
Car
Jeep Liberty
The Jeep Liberty is an SUV made by Jeep. The podcast mentions using a larger oil filter, which is something owners may do to help with routine maintenance. It’s a practical example of how people keep these vehicles running.
Car
3 Three Wheeler
A three wheeler is a vehicle that has three wheels instead of four. In the podcast, it’s used as a simple comparison for how something would move or push forward. It’s not a specific brand—just the idea of a three-wheel vehicle.
LIVE
SFJ 4x4 Studios presents
In my oversized four-wheel drive Jeep
A Jeep podcast starring industry experts
Cure monocity
What? Say that again!
With mad scientist Scott Brown
I use my drill press as a sort of lathe
Our host, Neil Simpson
If one light goes on they all go out
And Phil Bruce Shenanigans
We are really professional with Jeeps
This is I Speak Jeep
Good morning, afternoon, evening, wherever
However, you are joining us
This is the I Speak Jeep podcast presented by SFJ4x4.com
My name is Neil with Simpson Family Jeeps
And I'm joined in Grandma's couch studio
He did not seem sure this morning
But with Scott, the mad scientist
Sitting on the Cherokee couch all by himself
The maddest mad scientist
You have to wait until the weekend updates
To find out why
He was doing some things
He was keeping me posted throughout the process
We started this journey together
We will end this together
I love it
I love it
And we did
And that is a great, great
And it's not a segue
It's not an analogy
It's foreshadowing
It's a great foreshadowing
Well, if we're going to foreshadow
Then we can update
I want to talk about gas
But not what goes in your vehicle
I want to talk about that too right now
I don't even give a crap about the smiles per gallon thing
Which I usually
That's beyond that now
And that's the producer, Jeff, over there
He's rocking the shades today
I'm feeling pretty good
My eye sensitivity is not
Over the moon at the moment
I'm not sure why
Why today is better than other days
I don't know
I felt it was exceptionally bright
In here this morning
So I was like, I'm going to try out the shades
You've been doing the shades for so long
I was like, I'm going to try it out
Ever since the eye surgery
My light sensitivity
Is far greater than it used to be
Sounds like we need a sunglasses sponsor
Oh, that would be fun
Except for, you know what
You love rocking the Taco Bell ones
You know what, I just
I'm not that person
So I actually have thought about making this post
On social media platforms a couple different times
And I've been off for a few weeks now
But I'm jealous
I'm authentically jealous of individuals
And specifically guys
Who can wear like
Oakleys or like
High quality expensive sunglasses
I cannot
Really good
I can't
I will break them
I will lose them
It doesn't matter
I cannot wear the expensive one
I live too
I don't know
You enjoy life too much
That's what I'd like to say
Right, I mean I think those guys would say that
But I cannot
I lose them
I would break them
I get, you know
Jammed upside the face
I pull them off
I throw them in the engine bay
I forget they're there
They melt down, they break
My kids found a pair of my SFJ
4x4 sunglasses
Like randomly smashed into like
A thousand pieces
Because I was riding a mini bike
And I was super manning it
And they must have fallen off my head
Falling off my head in the middle
Because it was nighttime
When I was doing this
Like those types of things
Like does the guy who wears the $400 pair of Oakleys
Does he do that?
Is he randomly like
I think I'm going to drive the mini bike
As fast as possible can
In the middle of the night
And just happen to have the sunglasses on his head
And mine flew off
Like does he do that?
Probably
They just have, you know
More disposable income
I guess, maybe
In the comments
We got Bill McWilliam saying good morning guys
He was first
Billy Joe saying good morning
Bill's laughing at the goat
Because I may have accidentally triggered the goat
During our intro
We got Daddy Jeep saying good morning
And then Nate saying that they're on the road
From Trail Hero Expedition Season 2
Still about 1,300 miles to go
Good for you, good for you
Jagadjeeper said good morning
Bradford said it's a power through at Monday
I believe that
I feel that it makes soul
Jeanie said good morning, no rain
And she also said light sensitivity
Is why she's always wearing a hat
Daddy Jeep said I need my blues brother's suit
That would be fun
That would be a heck of a good Halloween
You know
That's what I did for Halloween the one year
I know, I've seen your picture
Yeah, we pulled it off pretty good
Then Katie's biker glasses stay on your face
And are inexpensive and come with bifocals now
I don't need that just yet
Well, I might
I love it
Good morning, good morning to everybody
And just a quick
A quick precursor
Because I've seen a number of these individuals
Just recently and I want to
On air, you know, respond back
First of all, Bradford from the mood
That I was in Saturday morning
Things have not exactly improved
If that gives you any indication
As to where I'm at
And too Jeanie, thank you so much
For the orange rolls
There's a number of people on my personal socials
Who know that I went
On a bit of a
Adventure looking for my favorite orange rolls
I was cracking up at your posts about them
Being missing, not even a spot for them
At the Walmart
Yeah, and that was a whole other debacle
And what not beyond that
And we have a good friend
And a customer of the business
Randall and Amanda, they actually bought me
They found them at a grocery
And they brought them from Cincinnati
To here
So thank you for that
But Jeanie actually went ahead
And made some from scratch the other day
They were delicious
I put a hurt on them
So thank you for all of those
I have not adequately been available
To the social media platforms
Because the spring has been so very challenging
Professionally
And so I did have a birthday
And a lot of people were very, very kind to me
And very gracious
And, you know, when I've seen them
They've been very responsive
And brought gifts and stuff
I want to make sure I'm recognizing them
But I've not been in a great place to do so
Speaking of which, we now have enough ice cream
For 80 bad days
So, no joke, yeah
Bradford brought us three gallons of ice cream
To which I'm not going to lie
Actually through an ice cream party
Saturday night, I was here
My family came over
I was working late
It made the extra work worth it
If you will
Ice cream therapy is always good
Ice cream therapy is where we're at
As a business surviving 2026, folks
Scott's favorite is strawberry
Greg's is anything that...
Chocolatey that will rot your teeth
And I...
My gait swings every direction
So, it's all good
2026, that's okay
Anyways, folks
We are going to be talking about breaks
For a JLJT specifically
Because you probably bought the wrong ones
Woo!
Goodness
And you know what?
And more so importantly
It occurred to me most recently
We've had some ups and downs
With breaks specifically
And seeing how driving style has always impacted them
And some things started to change around the JK
And then things got real wild for the JLJT
At least with the JK, it was consistent
It was like old Cherokee days
Where you went in and someone was like
I need something from my front axle
And you're like, well, you have a high pinion day and a 30
And you have an eight and a quarter in the back
And you have a four liter and an AW4
100%
And you were right, 96.5% of the time
And JK, it didn't matter if you were Rubicon, Sahara
Base model, Aquarium, you had the same breaks
And then I think that the OE saw us
Like putting big brake kits on
They did
And they're like, we can do that too
They did
And I think they wanted to exist in the minutia
They wanted to exist in that finite
And they made little detail changes
For different packages
I actually think if I was to take a 20, 30 second PSA
To talk about if you just have a daily driver Jeep
That in my opinion
The Jeep JK is probably the best everyday multi-purpose Jeep
Around
And that would be from a DIY serviceability stamp
You're just biased
I am biased, I get it
But as far as understanding
Some of the consistencies
Now, I can probably make a similar argument
Loosely enough about JT Gladiators
Because you only got two engine platforms
And arguably you got a consistent axle package
Now the problem is you get narrow
You get wide, you get tow packages
You get max tow packages
That's where we do start to get a little gobbly cook
In the process
Made up with the towing limits
And that kind of thing
Yeah, whereas, I mean, largely with the JKs
You had a 30 front and a 44 rear
You had 44, 44 and your brakes were largely the same
And drive shafts were largely the same
And you can, if there was actually any of them in the boneyard
You could go and get a part easily
Like we used to
Right, like Scott and I would
We were there when you would just go to the junkyard
And get parts and put on your Jeep
And you would make it survive
You found a four cylinder
Anything and you were like, it's got four tins
I can make this work
I can make this work
And now it's, you know, it's like
Oh, I just buy a part from Amazon and Detroit Axl
The vehicle from Rock Auto, you know
Ew
Real quick, I'm going to jump back to the comments
Bradford had said, this car is for you
Bill McWilliam said, I hit a few yard sales over the weekend
Scored a brand new truck tent and air mattress combo
For Bantam this year, that's pretty cool
Wow, nice
Jaga Jeeper said, just in time
My gladiator needs pads
And we're going to talk about why you need pads and rotors
Then you got Charles saying good morning from Texas
I hope you're all having better morning than I
The dang YJ dumped on him this morning
Dispersed dirt off road, said happy Monday
And Corporal Collins said, I was able to change the clutch
And the driveway on my JK, pretty straightforward
Excellent, congratulations
And it seems like we're off to a great start
Other than Charles and the YJ
There was one thing, scroll up just a smidgey bit for me
Oh, the car
I actually had a...
I'm going to take a moment and share the story
Just because it's a little serendipitous
Especially where we're at eating our feelings in ice cream these days
Years ago when we were absolutely a nobody nothing business
But had garnered the attention of some inside the industry folks
When it was actually before Scott was even here full time
But Scott has always been a major player since 0607
But it was before he was full time
It was when it was just Greg and I toiling away
And we were invited to an event called The Big Show
And it happened to be in Washington DC at the time
And it's an aftermarket automotive specialist event
Sort of like SEMA but not anywhere close
And so we were at The Big Show
And we were pretty young in the industry in the grand scheme of things
And CAR, C-A-R-R
Which is a USA aluminum product manufacturer
Known wildly for CAR steps
Which is the traditional hoop step
And a number of our customers have it
Because they're just the kind of a classic or an iconic look to them
They've been around since Square Body Chevy's
They have
And if you were into Square Body Ford, Square Body Chevy, OBS stuff
You're going to recognize this product line
And CAR has had its heyday
And now they largely produce this very classic step
And that's their primary medium
But it fit right into what we were trying to do
As far as USA manufactured and quality
Kind of a quality approach
We're at the show and I'm not a big freebie guy
Like I don't need to take the convention bag
And get all the stickers and the pens and stuff like that
And no discredit to anybody else who does want to do that
And thinks that's cool
I'm here for you to do that
But CAR, Booth, happened to be walking by
And they had made ice cream scoops
Out of drops of excess aluminum material
That's super fun
And both Greg and I got these ice cream scoops from this show
And it was very early on and it was the aftermarket industry
And it was a brand that I felt we could identify with in a capacity
And recently, again, we've been prioritizing our ice cream experiences
And Bradford was very generous with his gift to us
And so I made sure to bring in my CAR ice cream scoop
As you should
My aftermarket Jeep product ice cream scoop
Because that's just how geeky I am
And make sure that that was on site for our eating of our feelings
So there's a little backstory on that
With all of that said
And Joe's talking about JK Breaks are the same as the Dodge Caravan
Similar, absolutely
Has a lot of crossover
And actually in identical and certain situations
So one thing that we learned from the JK Breaks
Was that all of a sudden
JKs go through breaks in the rear axle
Twice as fast, and this is a generality, twice as fast as front brakes
Historically, when disc brakes became a thing
And certainly from having drum rear and disc front
We would go through the front brakes more often
Yes
Than rear
Drums were, you know, depending on the size of the truck
If you had a three-quarter ton truck
I would say any drums just seemed to soldier on forever
I remember my S10 from high school days
Had 120, 130,000 miles on it
And the rear shoes were still the Delco originals
So, and I had put like four sets of front brakes on it
In my ownership at that point
So it's just a different design
Well, and I think that part of that is where
And I always talk about the ripple effect of the automotive community
The average consumer is still
Mindset was in the drum rear to disc front
And in fact, in our XJs and our TJs
We were that through 2001, 2002
Right, so when other manufacturers
And obviously some after that even
You could get drums even in the four or five
Depending on how it's opted
Sure, an application, absolutely
But as a large, I remember this catalyst shift
Happening between 01 and let's call it 05
And I think the funniest part is everybody kind of got excited
About disc and swapping the discs and all that kind of stuff
It was like the wave of the future
It was a trend
But nobody really knew why we were doing it
Well, we just knew that other automotive manufacturers
Were disc a decade or two earlier than us
Right, and so your cars were disc-disc
And at that time, I mean we still had
I mean in 2000, we still had brake lathes
At your reputable aftermarket parts suppliers
So you could walk into a Ryleys
You walked into your Napa
Your automotive parts plus place
And they had a brake lathe
And they were going to turn your rotors for you
Correct
And the rotors were a lot thicker
So they had more meat to them to be able to do that
I'm going to put out a PSA
If anybody's got a brake lathe linking around
That they just need to pass off somebody
You know what's really a shame is that
You know what's a shame is that
I've passed on so many brake lathes to this point
Don't say that
I mean I was offered for free
I was offered for like 20 or 25 bucks
Don't say that, it hurts me
I've passed on so many brake lathes at this point
Because you also could turn drums
There was other brake lathes that could turn drums
Or multi-process lathes, right
So there was some that were just rotors
And some that were drum oriented
I actually used to turn them
I remember going to the junkyard with my dad
And finding a good set of rotors and drums
To then take to the parts store to have them turned
And then I bought my pads
Yup
And there we are
You know with my early Forda function
There's actually so hard to get drums turned now
That there's actually used parts suppliers
Turning drums
And then selling them for increased profit
Sure
Because they that way they're ready to go
You don't have to worry about it
They make sure they're good and spec
They turn them and they ship them to you
That's how I, I mean if you remember
That's how we started
I sold spicer U joints
And people are like
Well that's cool but I need the drive shaft
I had used drive shafts around
They were like well that's cool
But I don't actually know how to clean them up
Or install them
And you know make sure it's all functionally ready to go
And I just put it together and shipped it off
And that was a heck of a good gig for us
For a while
Yup
And I get it
It makes perfect sense to me
You, you, especially in the world that we're living in
Access to quality
Vintage parts in that regard
Would be very challenging to come by
Absolutely
So here we are into the JLJT
Era
Yes
And it's important to note a couple things
Jeffrey already kind of loosely let the cat out of the bag
The metal that we were using
For rotors and drums at that time
Was factually
I stand on the word factual
Better
Yes
It was better
It was a more pure metallurgy
There was less recycled material content in it
Our manufacturing processes were more longitudinally based
It was less race to the bottom or race speed to market
And so there was more meat on the rotors
There was more meat on the drums
They were over built
Just for a good example
My C10 I just sold
That had rotors from a 71 C10
That had rusted up to the door handles
I took those rotors off of that truck
I put them on my truck
And they were the original
From 1971 rotors
And I cleaned them up
I put new pads on them
And I just sold it
With those I put on in middle school
Yes
And it still has 1971 rotors on it
Yes
Obviously we weren't driving in a daily capacity
But we all drove it in some way, shape or form
It was a beautiful, well-behaving truck
Correct
But you take a rotor from today
Fast forward 50 years
You're not using that rotor
There's nothing left
No
Now it's important to note
I want to put the spoiler alert out there
I've spoken to a number of Jeep enthusiasts
Automotive enthusiasts
You're like, today's brakes are crap
They don't even last 16, 18, 24 months
Not true
But we'll get to that
Well, if you're buying white box
Okay, well we'll get to it now
Junk
Apparently we're getting to it
Apparently we're going to do it now
No, no, no
Before we get to that
We have to talk about the fact that
The braking manufacturing was changed
How many times
Is why the material is what it is
The material has changed a bunch
Both material of pads and rotors
Correct
It's all the variables have changed
Yes
And I think that
And if you go back far enough
There's a conversation about riveted and bonded
And so we don't even really deal with that anymore
We've talked about previously on this program
We've talked about federal regulations
As far as the copper amount and other metallurgies
Precious metal and metallurgies
That are in the pads themselves
We've seen the rise in popularity
And I'd argue a little bit of the fall in ceramic
Right
There's a value to ceramic
But it's not what it once was marketed as
And we did a whole episode
I think just in the last year
About all the different brake types
Correct
And so we've kind of covered
A number of these grounds with how
Brakes have ebbed and flowed
And now with the advent and the release
Of the 2018 and a half JL
We get into this really uncomfortable world
Of heavily recycled materials
So the actual product
The rotors, the pads
The base components
The base metals that are used in here
Are heavily recycled prior to being used
In the brake application
Especially when it comes to the white box
No name, bottom barrel
And I say that folks
And here's what I need to know
I actually
What's that?
Detroit axle
Yeah, Detroit axle
Even if you go to the standard box stores
And you buy their name brand
But you buy their bottom
Entry level economy brake
It's basically what you're getting still
It's just they're most affordable
Just because their name's on it
But with affordability comes
A great amount of dust
100% because that metal
Is literally schlepping apart in the process
And a great amount of rust
That too
So now the thing with the JLs
And the JTs
Okay, so I've heard this conversation
I've been the fly on the wall
With a lot of this conversation
There is a BRY brake code
And then there's a BR2
Through BR6
That's BR2, BR3, BR4, BR5, and BR6
Be our guest
Nowhere on your Jeep
Does it say what your brake code is
Nope, okay
I need you to know that this is
This is lying in the sand
You don't get to go in
And you don't get to ask the internet
And be like, this is what I have
I have a V6
And I've got...
I'm a Sport S
And with a hard top
What brakes do I need?
Introduced Lannis to 1980 GM
Where they had the little option code sticker
That was on the glove box
Would that make so much sense?
That would be awesome
Like, could we learn
Like 40 years ago
Right
From GM
And just implement that please
Right
Now, it's important to note
Whether you're BRY or BR guest
There's then only arguably
Two options factory
Okay, so BRY is one size option
Of rotor pad combination
And then BR guest
Which I'm just running with now
I freaking love it
BR2 through 6
Is another size option
And it would be arguably the smaller option
And it would be safe to say
That BRY is going to be more on the
Heavy duty side of things
And BR guest is going to be on the
Lighter duty side of things
Those are gross generalities
Think Rubicon versus non
But other than that
There is really not a great rhyme or reason
Because we've seen opposite codes
Showing up in other applications
They also factually have different
Calipers associated with the
Break codes themselves
And the only way to definitively
Say what break code you have
In order to acquire the appropriate size
Pad rotor and by extension
Caliper combination is to run the
Ven of your vehicle with the dealership
Because they will have the break code
And then you take that break code to
Your back store or buy it from the dealer
For twice as much
100% now that whole buy from the dealer
For twice as much conversation
It was literally I had to go back
In Jeffrey and I had to look at
Our understanding of breaks
Because we had a customer come through
And part of me being inspired was
She came through and her breaks were
Shot and it's a jail
And I had said like
Your breaks are bad and here they look
Like reptile scales and
They look like reptile scales and you
Can see pitting and you can see a bad
Contact patch and so on and so forth
On her breaks and I remember that
We actually had given them a quote
Some time within the last you know
Nominal period of time and I went back
And I had to do some digging and it
Looked like we gave them a quote back
About 16 months ago and it was 16
Months ago it was a jail and at that
Time we were quoting dealership
Prices because that was all we could
Find at that time because that's all
We could find reliably at that time
So we're talking about a jeep that
Was released in 2018 and a half
And it was just 16 months ago which
Puts us at the very beginning of 25
19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25
That's seven years, seven years
And we were still buying dealership parts
Because arguably that's the only
Parts that we could find reliably
Now I do know factually there was
Napa had some options, I do know
Factually some other break manufacturers
Had options, they had options but it was
Often not the code that you needed
And if you knew what your break codes
Were because for a while the Rubicon
The heavy duty breaks, I should say
Not the Rubicon necessarily, the heavy
Duty breaks were not available in
The aftermarket at all
It was a curse almost
And how wild because we are seven
Years in and we hadn't done that
Many breaks as an industry that the
Aftermarket was like hey we should
Make breaks easily accessible
So it's a testament to the precision
Despite the fact that I was just
Trashing the metallurgy and that
Kind of stuff, that's not the case
With the OEManufactured breaks
They're holding up, they're exceptional
I would say we're just now getting
Some 21s coming in that need half
The Jeep done and my knock on wood
Is a 21 and still haven't had the touch
To the breaks, Jeff had to because he just
But I have 105,000 miles on the Jeep
And I've changed the rear because
I felt like I should, not because I needed to
They were okay, but I was like
They're getting there, so I changed them
I have 160,000 on my wife's mall crawler
And you haven't changed them?
I've done them once
Think about that, 160,000 miles
That's crazy
We never would have had that three
Decades ago, four decades ago
We would have been doing breaks multiple
Times at that rate and hell we were
Thinked that at 160,000 that Jeep
Needed to go off to the bone yard
Great, you put an engine in it for us
And I appreciate that, you know
That was semi-unrelated
Well, and now that we've already
Kind of talked a little bit about
The different break codes, Opie and Quigley
Saying if you have to ask a dealer
About a break code with a VIN
Then how do you manage that with an
Axle swap vehicle example JLU Sport
With a 392 axle swap off Marketplace
You have to use the VIN off of that
Previous vehicle
Axle
Now, with that said, the 392
It was going to have Rubicon axles
Yeah
Nine times out of ten
You know, the originals
I don't know that the 392
Comes with anything that doesn't
Have the HD brake kit
We can't say for certain on anything
So Jeep always keeps us on our toes
And we think we know it
They smack upside the head and
Teach us otherwise
But Rubicon's should
Air quotes should be the easier
To figure out
You should have the HD package
Which those HD brakes were
Available right away
Because they actually crossed over
To like an obscure 1500
Or something
But not everybody realized that
So it took some
Right, that wasn't
That wasn't knowledge that was
100% pervasive
And quite frankly, I don't even
Exactly remember what that
Crossover is or was
It was a ram of some kind
It was, it was
And it was only a five-year
Ram option or something
Which I think is funny
Because we know some of the big
Brake kits from the JK
Are basically just
1500 brakes
Jeep 100% was like
Hmm
Hey, this thing's close enough
Over here, we move this
We open this hole up a little bit
Ba-ba-ba
I'm with you, absolutely
And
JK Jeepers brought up
Brakes don't have the chirper on them
Anymore, that piece of metal
That started chirping
When your pads got low
Some do, some don't
Right, not all do anymore
Again, that was the thing
That we saw pervasive
And now we see less of
In my opinion
I would say if you
At least the high quality brakes
Were installing do
Sometimes when you get the
Cheaper ones or some OEs
I would say are emitting them
Probably just because they dealt with
Noise complaints
And it was easier just to
Not do that
Right, eliminate that little piece
Of the equation
So the, and the other piece would be
Once you, once you
Vend out that axle application
Then you will know whether you have
The BR guest code
Or the BRY code
Because at the end of the day
There are only
Categorically the HD brakes
Or the non
Unless you have done some type of
Aftermarket big brake swap
And that obviously became very popular
Under the JK
Not exactly what I want to get into
Now, but maybe we'll dabble it
Here in a second
I would say the Saharas
Or the Overlint
Well, JT's are not really a problem
But the Saharas are where the problem lies
Because we haven't seen a consistent
Optioning with those
Sometimes they have the little brakes
Sometimes they have the bigger brakes
And there's really no rhyme or reason
You know, it would be easier if it was like
Oh, that Sahara has a towing package
So it has the bigger brakes
It doesn't seem to be the trend
So the question would be
Where would we feel like
Willys packages come in too
Because I feel like that's the one that is also
I think you're in the Sahara
It's very similar
Where usually the heavier towing package
Is going to have the bigger brakes
But not always
And that's the thing is we're not seeing
That ability to create
Consistent messaging with these vehicles
When they come in
And it's sad because you know how I am
But am I right in thinking that JT
Is pretty much always have the bigger brakes
Yes
Yeah, and so far
And our confusion with the JTs
Comes in with axle widths
And tow capacities and all that kind of stuff
I think Jeff has to use Rubicon brakes
On his
Yeah, I think they are always the HD
Until you get into the big big brake kits
Which then get more confusing
Yeah
When it comes to the JLJT
Again, we talked about the proficiency
Of the OEs
And this
Go back to that story that I had started
With the young lady
I had asked her
I said
I knew that we had actually quoted her
But then I thought
There's no way that she was
She's now 16, 18 months later
And still on those crummy brakes
And she said
No, they actually did them
Her and her father
Had actually did it as a DIY project for them
And I remember
Because they were actually
One of the folks who turned us on
To some of the brake availability
In the aftermarket
And so it made sense that they had gone out
And they had procured these brakes
But here we are just 16 months later
And their brakes are
Toast
To the point that you didn't think they had been
Changed at all
Correct
I mean they were absolutely ruined
You know
And
You know
So like the question then
Begs
How then does
And that's not a cheap date
See even at the
You know the aftermarket
Going to the box store
They're not a cheap date
They're not $20 a rotor anymore
And 15 bucks on pads
Those are the days
We're still talking hundreds of dollars
If you spent 100 bucks on your whole setup
You're like
Oh that was a bit of money
Now it's 100 dollars for a rotor
And so
You know
So this conversation
You know
What then creates the difference
Because
I mean her brakes were shedding
Poorly
Right
We saw
Braked us
Her wheels started to discolor
And
We see
You know
The signs of the fact that they spent money
Just a year and a half ago
And
It's wasted
Now you have to do it
All over again
Why is that?
And I've heard it
As a conversation from a number of people
Brakes these days suck
Okay
True
They're not
Many moons ago
But if you were to tell me that
We were going to be going 100,000
100,000 plus on OE brakes
That doesn't suck
That's good quality brakes
So then something else sucks
The aftermarket brakes though
Or
As I have been sharing with people
More and more in a professional capacity
As the quality control of our brakes
Have gone down
It now prioritizes our process
More than ever
Yes
I think that
Back in the day
Doing brakes was a
A shatry mechanics job
It was one of those things that you could feel
Comfortable and confident
And
Accomplished
That you were doing mechanical things
Because
You know
You got your trolley jack out
And you got an appropriate lift point
You put your jack stand under
You sat on a Saturday afternoon
And you did your brakes
I suspect
That
The brake material
And the rudimentary function of the braking system
Was
So robust
That
You didn't have to do it well
You didn't have to have every slide greased
You didn't have to have the pins perfectly clean
Perfect example is
How many Cherokees, TJs
Even Grands
ZJ style would come in
And they would have spots where the pads had shucked
So much that they had worn divots
Into the bracket
Into the hard bracket
And how often people didn't even do anything about that
They just slapped new pads in there
And kept on going
And only when it became like
A mountainside
Would it finally
Restrict the pad movement
And I remember a bunch of people that would just grind it
Into a troth
So it could go down
And back up the other side
And it was okay
We would mig well them up
And grind them down
And kind of restore it back to where it was
Sure, yes
But that was
I mean, your drought hammer, chisel,
Ugg type of stuff
For now
If your slides aren't clean
And you aren't cleaning behind the slides
And you're not appropriately greasing pins
And you're not making sure that
The one piston is actuating
Like the other one
Well, then the seals are so good
That if you overgrease the pins
It creates a problem as well
You can make them hydraulic
You can make them hydraulically lock
The other
I agree entirely
And that's exactly my sentiment that
Back in the day
The material used for breaks
Was so forgiving
That you didn't have to be that good
At doing the installation
Right
And now the systems are so precise
And the materials are not so great
For the aftermarket purposes
That you have to be really good
At doing the installation
And not just the installation
The bedding
But the break-in embedding
And that's another piece that people didn't do
We were supposed to
Supposed to have been breaking in breaks
For decades
But nobody did
I would challenge people in the comment
Do you know what bedding breaks is
And have you made a
You know, kind of a routine
As part of your break services
To bed your breaks
I would say ten years ago
The only people who knew about that at all
Were like auto crossers
Or time attack people
Something like that
Where they were actually going out
And just flogging the crap
Out of their breaks on the weekends
Those people started to learn
And go like, oh, I need to bed my breaks
And then the fancier materials
I remember the green stuff
And the yellow stuff
They would talk about bedding breaks
But everybody I think got the
Thought that that was only for race car things
Right
The reality is, no, we all need to do it
Even if it airtight your wife like, does mine
But you need to
Introduce that pad to the rotor
Properly
Correct
For them to be friends
Yes
For a long period of time
For a long period of time
Yeah
Because if they don't
It's the first date
It's the first date
It's the first impressions
If there's not good first impressions
Between the rotor and the pad
Then you're not going to have
We're going to cat fight
You're not going to have long term success
Which is in part one of the big reasons
Why you should not just slap pads
On decent looking rotors
That's, yep
Yeah
And so ultimately you need
Two clean mating surfaces
And then you have to go through the process
Of bedding the surfaces
Which is matching them up to each other
Just because I know there's going to be the guy
Four clean surfaces
From pad, back pad, both sides of the rotor
Because someone's a bear
Well, I did half of it right
Yes
So you have to have multiple clean surfaces
Fresh surfaces and you have to match them to each other
Not dissimilar from
Ring and pinion faces
From bearing end caps
Or bearing caps in an engine
Similar concepts where things are
Intended to be mated
And then retained in that fashion
Right
And that way
You're actually on a
Like a micro level
Creating consistent striations
Between the two materials
As they clean across each other
If you take a pad by today's standards
And you apply it to a used rotor
That already has a wear surface embedded into it
That can be seen and not seen
Then all you're going to do is actually chunk away
At the pad
You're actually going to be schlepping off
Far more material in an inconsistent fashion
That it was never engineered to do
And therefore you're going to deteriorate
That pad surface
And by extension the rotor
Because now it becomes parasitic to each other
Right
Now you have an inconsistent pad
That has big missing chunks
And it's ripping away at the rotor
Like two pieces of sandpaper just rubbing together
And you have more noise, vibration
All that kind of stuff
One thing I can say I don't see as much
As I did 15 years ago
Was brake pulse
Warped rotors
That was a thing
Like seemed like everybody had warped rotors
And your pedals going up and down
That is less
It is less
I agree with you
It is less
And here's where I over confidently
Have a belief system in that
15 years ago to 25 years ago
Right in there
Is when we opened up the markets to
Import saturation
And that is where we got
Overseas pads and rotors
Like crazy
Yes
And we subjected
Asian market
Or South American market rotors
To speeds and utilization of western markets
Which is not
Those are not two things do not jive
Or did not jive
That's fair
The equipment being used
In those developing countries at that time
To make those products not as good
And the material they were made out of
And the material at that time
Was even less than it is now
As those countries have increased
And I as a personal purveyor of the industry
I can talk at length about how this has affected
Ring and pinion production
I can talk about how it has affected breaks
I can tell you the types of equipment
And machines and toolings
Factory level that actually cut these things
Have migrated from stateside production
To Asian and South American spaces
Didn't we even hear from
In the know people that they had taken
Worn out machines
Like the garbage from the U.S.
And taken over there and gave it a pep talk
And started producing parts
Wax on, wax off and start making parts
Absolutely just a little spit shine
And we're off to the races
And so those parts that were then in the markets
Were the white box breaks and rotors
And we were seeing mass warpage
We have seen it still today
Because those parts are still sort of available
We've all watched the videos of the guys
Who are in bare feet forging things
In the sand, you know what I mean?
Like it's just part of the internet at this point
That's where the machine goes after it's been cast
Aside from its previous life, you know?
But I will say the warped rotors is not gone
It's just way less common
We have absolutely had to change warped rotors
On JLJT
Because usually because of a caliper
Getting stuck and getting super heated
And now that's going to affect the whole breaking system
I would say that's extenuating serpent stance though
Where before
I want to agree with you
But there was something about a serpent
And it's standing in a different direction
I don't know
Extenuating circumstances is correct
But there was something about wizardry and serpents
In the process
Magic
This isn't the Harry Potter episode anymore guys
Speaking of magic, do you remember Magic Breaks?
Is that familiar to you at all?
No
Magic Breaks
So it was right at the turn of this whole process
Magic was really really popular
He was a stateside guy
He was an engineer
And he
As I can
The best
And god
I hope that I'm not offending anybody in this process
But he's totally an engineer of mentality
And he must have worked in the breaking industry
And then he leaves at some point in time
Because he's like, I can do better, right?
I'm not talking about basketball player
I'm sure, not Magic Johnson
And
And then he gets really really jaded
Because he comes up with a composite
That
And I've spoken to this man personally
That he swears big business stole from him
And it was super super relevant in the TJ market
It was on the forums
It was back in the forum day
Coming out of the late 90s, early 2000s
And Magic Breaks were all the rage for TJ owners
You were somebody
If you had Magic Breaks
Just like Vancoe was making some parts and pieces
This singular entity
Had produced these breaks called Magic Breaks
And
Man, I forgot all about that until you said something
But there was a pad composite
And you were supposed to
Use his pads on certain rotors
And then he had this whole process
It was the break in process
And I would argue that
Probably he was just
Finely aware of what was coming down the pipe
Because of his personal and everyday experience
Speaking of which is probably another reason why
Breaking in the Breaks are so important
It's back in organic days
When you just had organic pads
Or a metallic pad
It probably wasn't as critical to
Bed them then
Because metallics are just going to rip the
Rotor a new one
And it's going to do what it needs to do
Organics just going to fluff off and give up
The rotor would win in that situation
Where now when we have our composites and our ceramics
And we have more exotic
They're literally fighting each other
They're fighting each other
So you need to
That's when the first date shows up
Sure
And I think that all of that is very relevant
To the conversation to say
We can track it to this point and say
Hey, there's a reason why
Our ripple effect of information
Yes
Affects the fact that it is not
A pleasant DIY experience anymore
To do breaks on a Jeep Wrangler
I remember my dad getting all fired up
That I don't want those metallic pads
Organics to save my rotors
That was always his battle cry
I love Fredisms
God, it's not a Fredism
That I would have been able to produce
But I am so glad that
Rotors were expensive and pads were cheap
That's why my dad and I were hunting the junkyard
To find rotors because rotors are expensive
Because you were meant to make them last
And reuse them
Not expensive because they just want to
Get your money
Let's talk about what is actually
Factually happening
I personally am a believer
That you have to buy the best possible
Option available
And then
Once you've purchased that best possible
Option available
Then you do a rigorous and attentive
Installation process
And then bedding or breaking of the breaks
And I want to point out
That's not because we want to sell you
The most expensive breaks
That is literally because they will last
Approximately
Two or three times longer than the cheap ones
You're going to get your money's worth out of them
And my suspicion, I have no way of proving this
Other than my gut feel
Is when you have some sort of
Product like used cast iron
You're going to melt it down
And now there's going to be a quality
Checkpoint
And the junk
Is going to go for the low quality stuff
And then we're going to get more refined
As we go up the chain
So it's kind of makes no
In my head makes perfect sense
Why if you go and buy a white box
Cheap as crap rotor
Well you're getting the low quality cast iron
As the more impurities
It's got more rust in it
It's got more garbage
So therefore it took less process for that
To happen therefore you're paying for less manpower
As that increases
And you're getting more and more refined
Well now more people have had to check it
Or people have had to look into it
Therefore the rotor cost increases
So it's fun to get on and be like
Those they got me
I think it's you're paying for more refinement
You pay now or you pay later
But you pay
If you are unfamiliar with bedding
Or the break in process
And I'll just kind of keep it kind of light and simple
It is a process of superheating
The pad rotor combination
In order to allow the two mating surfaces
To kind of create a consistent
Bedding or mating surface itself
And it is a process of
Making sure that you get up to speed
And then applying the brakes in an aggressive fashion
Without triggering the ABS pulsing
Additionally you don't ever want to
Hotspot the rotors
Which means that as you go through this
Superheated process of breaking
You don't then want to
Sit at a red light
Or sit in a fast food drive through
And allow the pads to sit in
In an overly hot capacity
Sit there and wear
Cook on the rotors
That creates a hotspot
So it's this kind of this delicate balancing act
Of superheating and mating
Without then sitting
Also it's meant to be kind of aggressive
Or violent in its process
And so actually when I do it
I drive between neutral and a drive gear
And I'm actually not using braking
It's actually kind of similar to
Back in the day when we just drove with our clutch
As opposed to driving with our brake
And that might be lost on a number of people
Anymore but was very much a thing at one time
So kind of a pertinent point
To brakes and how they work by today's standards
It's like any good date
You have to take your time
Got to work up to it
That kind of stuff
Wow
Last piece of this equation
Do you want to fill us in on the challenges
That we're seeing with parking brake assemblies
So I am a little
Those are junk
That's what I have to say about it
When we went to the little drum brake
Inside the rotor hat
Way too long ago
We did inherently have some challenges
Because we now have less surface area
We grew up
Well if you're our age
You grew up expecting your e-brake to act
Kind of like your real brakes
Because they were
When you had the rear drum
And you had your parking brake
You were using the same shoes
The same drum
The same hardware to
If it was your service brake
Or your parking brake
Turn around and now
We have a miniature drum
Inside of your rotor
And because of that
They never get used
They rust up
They're bonded
We don't have
Almost anybody uses riveted shoes anymore
The bonding will give up
Because rust creeps in underneath
So usually people don't even know
They have e-brakes
Or parking brakes
Until they fall apart
And start grinding and making noise
Especially if you're not using them regularly
Correct
The other thing we seem to
Adjustment
Because we're expecting them to work at peak performance
Because of the size
Adjustment is critical
Super critical
And you have some mechanics
And I completely understand
They are so cognizant of sounds and noises
And people are super sensitive
When they've just had their brakes done
They will adjust down the parking brake
To get off the rotor
And then they won't adjust it back
Because at that point
They're doing self-preservation
They're adjusting the pressure
From the brake shoes
To remove the rotor
Just in case that wasn't
In here clear to anybody
As your rotor's age
They will get what we call a boot lip
They will have an edge
Kind of rust build up
Because obviously the pads
Are taking some of it off
It'll migrate two directions
One, you have a surface of a hat
So it can't go that way
It can go the other way
And it builds up like a crust on that edge
So then when you go to pull the rotor off
You're fighting that crust
The same thing would happen back in the day
When you would use your drum brakes to
Right
Full extreme
And you would have to adjust down your shoes
To get the drum off
In any regard
We're seeing that more and more
And we're seeing people's e-brakes
Or parking brakes not adjusted correctly
Also
And it is again fiddly to do
With that also said
I think as much as
I'm not a big fan of electric stuff in brakes
When you have the parking brake
As part of the caliper
You have a more efficient parking brake
Because now you're using a larger
Part of the brake to work
And it's also all about leverage
So if you're a hot rod guy
And you're going to swap
From one system to the other
Like my wife CJ7
I put disc brakes on that
Because I was excited
And I thought we should disc brake the world
That's what we all thought we should do
It's stick shift
And the parking brakes don't work
Because the foot pedal
Does not have enough leverage
To pull on that
I dealt with that
With my 36 forward
Same thing
I changed from mechanical brakes
To hydraulic brakes
People remove the bell cranks
And the torque multipliers
And that
And then the brakes don't work
Mine does
I didn't know that
When I did the CJ7
And it's not as easy
To do on something vintage like that
And that is for our
TJ, CJ, YJ, XJ guys
When I did my XJ swap
Same thing
Parking brake didn't hold worth a crap
What about the auto tensioning parking brakes?
Well, and that's the last picture
I had to bring that up
Because I know that doesn't always work
You still have to go in
And adjust other parts of it
And what he's speaking of is
JKs would have a
Because it's such a pain in the butt
They would
And cable stretch over time
It would have basically a big spring
Almost like a clock spring
And as you used your handle
It would adjust up until it didn't
And then it feels like
You're not attached to anything
And then we got to go in
And replace your handle mechanism
I haven't seen that as much on the JLs
I'm not sure
I don't think we're old enough
To worry about it yet on the JLs
It could be
I'm not sure if they use that technology
With it or not
I'm not as familiar with it
Yeah, we haven't seen the failures
We saw it fail in JKs early
The JLs, the failures, the rust in the hat
Correct
And the mechanisms are seizing up in the hat
Absolutely
That's what we're seeing on that
Correct
As of this moment
Now that's not to say that
You know, age-wise
We're 78 years in
It's very well could be
A whole new slew of things
Aging and wearing out
Another important note
When you do have that internal parking brake
The metal of the backing plate
Is exceedingly important
Because that is what holds your pins
And that kind of stuff
When those start to rust away
Nothing is holding those shoes anymore
Yeah, I think that's a great place
To kind of land
Because that was recently enough
I've seen with a couple JKs
And maybe a JL
Where there was not an appreciation
For that relatively thin stamped steel piece
Yes
Because it's very reminiscent
Of the dust and debris shields
Of the 90s and early 2000s
Which you could get away with
Just eliminating from the vehicle
Yes
And this backing plate
We cannot
Because it holds the shoes
Yeah
And what happens when the nail comes loose
Because it rusted through
You take out your ABS sensor
Yep
Literally we'll rotate through
And get caught and snap the ABS sensor
And we haven't traditionally seen
Good aftermarket support for those parts either
Where other brands
You can literally go and buy a new tin piece
And kind of renew that
Where for some reason
Jeeps do better darn it
After markets
You can't
Yeah
It kind of reinforces the conversation
That now
Brakes can still be
A DIY friendly service
But you have to prioritize
A high quality installation
And follow through process
Understand that it is not
The forgiving scenario
That it once was
And that you do need
Approved brake grease
You do need to make sure that everything is super clean
And fluid in the process
And put the never seas down and away
Oh yeah yeah
When I say lubricants and brake grease
Stop using the never seas
Definitely don't put it on your pads and rollers
Don't put it on your pads and rollers
Don't put it on your lug nuts
Corporal Colin in the comments said
I have an issue with my JK
Where my ebrake just goes up to the sky
And doesn't really hold on a hill
I just adjusted the drums
But it didn't do much
How do I fix that?
Like replace the whole assembly
Yes
That's what we were talking about
The whole handle assembly
The whole handle
When it goes for the sky
That's not the mechanism and the handle is junk
Right
That's not the cables necessarily
That's not the parking brake shoes themselves
That's the handle is junk itself
Yeah
Alright folks
Well I hope that this was some insight
Into the most modern application of the JLJT series
Again at the end of the day
We have BRY and BR guests
BR2 through 6
You can only get that specific 3 digit
An accurate letter acronym or indicator
Via your VIN
It's nowhere posted on your vehicle
Once you know where it is
I encourage you to grab a paint marker
Or a label maker or something
Put it under your hood
Or on your fan shroud
Or I don't know something
So that you don't forget it
And you are able to then in an educated manner
Walk in and say yes this is my brake code
With that said
You may not be able to go to every aftermarket parts store
And give them your brake code
They might want to know whether you have a
330 millimeter rotor
Or a 24 mil thick or whatever
But in theory
The 3 letter brake code should satisfy
9 times out of 10
As far as your ability to source brakes
For your vehicle
As always if you have further questions
That we can be of benefit to you
Feel free to hit us up on our text
Only number 440-855-2100
Again 855-2100
Or email us at contact
C-O-N-T-A-C-T
At SFJ4X4.com
Anything else with a go to the order?
Nope
As always if you're interested in hearing about
What projects and other shenanigans
We have going on in our personal lives
Hang on through the outro credits
But otherwise we have a lot of jeeps
In a busy time of year
Jeep on
Jeep on
So what I was foreshadowing about
Was a real quick recap
For those that don't know
We were early on in our adult lives
Me and Neil
And we had both purchased houses
And we both had used junk mowers
That we were just flogging within
An inch of their lives
After they had gotten used up
And thrown away basically
Elsewhere from other
Didn't have reverses
Didn't have adjustments
Wheels were missing off a dex
It was not pretty
First of all, wheels are always
Supposed to be missing off a dex
Second of all, I had to go to a Kevlar belt
This is when the Kevlar integration
Was really, really exciting to the world
Where we started to weave Kevlar into rubber
And I had to go to a Kevlar belt
Because pulley alignment
Were so screwed up on my lawnmower
That I was going through a belt
About every mow and a half
That I was doing
So I went to a Kevlar belt
That I had to specially purchase
Now, are you talking about the cub?
The cub
Okay, I'll allow that
You were going into the
You were talking about the derelict state
Of affairs that our mowers were
It was super bad
So we became purveyors of
Box door lawnmowers
And we actually special ordered one
We went through and we were looking
At gauges of dex
And we were talking about motor horsepower
Horse powers and all that kind of stuff
And we all, both of us wanted
The biggest deck we could get
Under our tractors
And this is where Neil
Won up me at the moment
And he got a 54 inch deck
And I was only able to get a 48
I had a bigger horsepower motor than you
I know, yeah
Wow
And he, I wanted to get
The biggest box door John Deere
And he got the
The Klembley Krem of Trassman
What?
The Krembley Krem of the Kraftsman
This is when Sears was still
Actually a store
Yes, we could physically go in the
Store and look at it
And he special ordered it
Because he didn't want no junk
Coalers
I didn't want no junk coalers
I was reading the internet
And I knew what was happening
To coalers
Overseas, yep
I had a B&S
And while they did not have
A great reputation as well
Because at that time
They had a whole line
That was being produced
Overseas as well
The particular B&S
That I special ordered onto
My YT4500 chassis
He was a little passionate
Was, was in fact
And it's a YT
Because it's a yard tractor
Was in fact
That is supposed to help
Re-launch B&S
Primarily because it had a pre-oiler
The moment that, you know
Somehow you turned the key
It was supposed to
Magic, magic happened
Yes
It was supposed to
Re-launch the B&S line
As a reputable
Small engine manufacturer again
So here we are
It was a good engine
But B&S never came back
So here we are
And this was before
Our boys were born
So we had all this extra time
We'd go and spend on lawn mowers
That we, you know
At this point don't have
And we're not landscapeers
Right, we're not actually
Going to a commercial grade, you know
We were just very passionate
About it at the time
Not passionate about our
Box store lawn mowers
And like always
He got his first
And then I got mine slightly after
Just shortly after
Just shortly after
Like normal
Then any which way
So here we are, you know
What, 15 years
All better, yeah
16 years in
The craftsman is
Lovely known as Lucy
Lucy the lawn mower
Lucy has lost her deck
Yeah
Deck has exited the chat
I put in the scrap pile at this point
It's been repaired multiple times
And
Spend those were not good
Let's talk about the fact that
Who was meticulous on the maintenance
Of their tractor as well
Hold on
I was meticulous
Lucy's a wonderful yard dog
At this point
Yes
And you know
Our boys have grown up
Learning how to drive on them
And run them in the things
And everything else
100%
Headlights are not quite
What they used to be
Hoods are not
I have an LED light bar on mine
And I run an oversized
Jeep Liberty oil filter
Yes
I've got the rear wheel weights
Cause obviously
That's the world I live in
So probably you haven't installed the lift kit yet
So another piece about my mower
While I was asked obviously
Is was
A zero turns were just totally
They were a commercial grade thing
Yeah
So mine was called
I think either a
Three degree mower
Or a six degree
It was all about the turning radius
It was all about that turn radius
How far drifting
Which actually never worked
Because you would get
The front steer tires
Scrubbed tires
It was just scrubbing
Then it would push it forward
Like a three wheeler
And I remember we were
Loose traction entirely
Comparing specs
His had a slightly tighter
Turn radius
And mine did
I did yes
I could whip around things in the yard
My wife took that challenge
Entirely too literal
And put stuff everywhere in the yard
As far as planters and garden
Make it interesting
Yeah I'm over that
And suddenly
Our giant decks were not fun anymore
No no no
So anyway
The last two ish years
The little deer as mine is called
Has gotten to where it doesn't want to back up
And
You also went through deck belts
On Lucy
I did
Like water
And I was all proud
I was like yeah
I've only put one deck belt on
Which is still true
I swapped mine out
So I didn't get burnt with it
Blowing apart
It's always fun when that happens
I was maintenance-ing mine
Where my belt
My original belt
Died in a feet of glory
In the middle of the field
After water
I had trauma from my cub
And I just were bang
And that was it
So anyway
I've been ignoring the fact
That it doesn't back up
And I had gotten to
Just drive it forward
I put it in the healing weeds
Over the winter
The healing weeds
And
This is where we're at right now
So
Battery never got unhooked
I turned on the key
And the hour meter came on
I was like
Hey
It's got juice
It's got juice
I'm already batting more
Than I thought
Right
And it was like
Rawr
And that was it
I was like
Okay, jump pack time
So fired it up
Did I check the oil?
No
Did I
Worry about
What was under the deck?
No
I did flip the hood open
To jump start
And I was like
Oh those are
Some little
Walnuts or whatever
You know
That muslin creature
Was inhabiting it
I was like
Go away
So
I was able to back out
Of the healing weeds
And I immediately just turned
On the deck
And started mowing
Because that's what you do
A little deer
I'll have to talk about
Mine afterwards
Because
I also have a deer
So
I've been mowing
Two or three times
This season
Already like that
And I had forgotten
That backing up
Was a problem
Until I went to back up
This year
And I was like
Hmm
This sucks
Nobody's home
Nobody's home
It's getting
As it warmed up
It would get worse
So
This has been plaguing me
And I really want a zero turn
Like normal
Neil is ahead of me
He's gone to the
Zero turn world
And
My wife is not having it
She's like
They're expensive
She's right
$5,000 for a lawnmower
Is ridiculous
That's a cheap one anymore
That's a cheap one
And
So
I've just
Longingly
Look at them
When we go to stores
You walk through it
Walk past them
And shake my head at the price
Like a love
That you're not allowed
To indulge in
Yes
So
I was happy
To just continue
Caning my tractor
And ignoring it
What's the oil in it
Don't know
How long has the filter
Been on it
Yes
That kind of stuff
And
I gave up taking the deck off
A couple of years ago
Just whiz what it was
You take the deck off of them
Every year
Every year
You take it off
Every year
You do the oil
At the end of the season
At the beginning of the season
You do oil changes on them
I heard there's an air filter
In there somewhere too
Oh
Is it really?
Anyway
The one time
I thought I saw like
Grease fittings on the tractor
Those are for you though
Spend me your imagination
So
You know there's a thousand
Hours on Lucy
Woo
How many hours on little deer
260
Thousand
Yeah
Yeah, Lucy's been through the ringer
Yeah
How she lived five times
The life of Lucy
I don't know
Yeah
But you did mow a lot
I mow a lot
I have bigger properties
And I use it at the shop
And you're more meticulous
About the length of your grass
Maybe that's true too
Yeah, it's fair
Anyway
It's a mental
It's a therapeutic thing for me
I even need people to know that
That's for me
So I was doing good
Ignoring all this
Until the other day
I was on my way home
And the neighbor
Had pushed out this cub cadet
To the street
With a free sign on it
I was like
Ooh
I like free junk
You were always a sucker for cub
Cub cadet as well
Well
I've been touched
A couple of times by cub cadet
But anyway
I know but
It's a part of you
That wants to like it
Free and next door
I'm here for it
I don't even have to push it
You have to get the trailer out
Right
I didn't have to push it
Hardly at all
It was great
I got the kids excited
One steered
The other one helped me push
And it's funny
I just started pushing
And Aidan's like
Aren't we supposed to pull the thing
For the hydrostat
To help it
And so he did that
I was like
Oh, that pushes easier
This is great
Wow
So
Anyway
We pushed it over
And my daughter immediately
Decides
This is her tractor
No discussion
She is playing
Aidan has his own toys
She
He did get an old
Craftsman
Like a
78 or something
Craftsman
With a Briggs and Stratton
On that one
And
My wife
Before
This cub showed up
She kept like
Well
Aidan's got a tractor
And he can mow
It's at 70s
Craftsman
The deck
Is not
Is good
But it's not
Good
And it's got the one
Where you like
Fold the handle down
To make the
The deck engage
And sometimes it works
Sometimes it doesn't
I'm not
I'm not
Prepared
For using that
For playing around
Let him go mow
A little bit
Sweet
The dedicated mowing
I can't
That's your primary
Mow
Can't do it
So
Anyway
So we go
We do the process
We get out of battery
We see what it's going to do
It pops up
It has 80 hours on
I'm like game on
You know
Free mower
80 hours
Cool
It's got a 42 inch deck
Okay
You can deal with that
It's not the size of the
It's not the size of the time
How you use it
But it has a
Kohler motor
And
You hit the starter
And it's
That's not good
So
Kind of
We pull the plugs
Check it over
We scope the cylinders
Everything looks brand new
In the motor
And
I just kind of put it off
To the side
Because Aiden
Appropriately said
We're currently playing
With this
Mom's parking spot
And there's a few things
In my house
You don't do that
So I push it off to the side
She didn't even notice it
For like
Two days
Then finally
She tells you
What kind of junk
You have sent her
That's true
Half of it's yours
Wow
Anyway
So Sunday
On Mother's Day
Just a factory line
Yes, yeah
I decided
I'm going to
Well, Neil
Especially Neil's fault
Because he's like
I talked to him about
The motor's locked up
He said pull the starter
Before you do anything
I was like
I'll do that
Pull the starter
Nobody's home
It's still locked up
Saw as a rock
I'm like, okay
I'm really curious
What is this?
Me and Aimee
Start pulling the motor apart
Next thing
The motor's off the tractor
Split the case
Inside the motor
Looks great
Still won't turn
Pull the heads
Valves are all there
Everything's good
I'm like
What in the world
Is wrong with this thing
So then we're pulling
Pistons and rods
And
Those were all good
And a crank
Bear crank
In the case
Won't turn
Bear crank
Bear crank
Finally get the flywheel off
I thought they had used
A press and bearing
No, no, no
No
The case is the bearing
And the seal
Looks like it went through Chernobyl
It is bad
It is hot
So I don't know
What in the world happened
But the crank
And the case are one
They have decided
That as a marriage
They are not getting divorced
Shut up
So
That is where that
No bearing
No bearing for the
From what I can see
No bearing
Weird
So anyway
That's where that stopped
And I'm like
Well
My backup plan
Now needs an engine
So
And Ains like
Well, I really like the deer
The little deer
He likes everything
And he's grown up
With the deer
And I've
You know
Ripped a lot of the things
He's attached to
Out of his life
Right out of his life
So I was like
All right
Let's take two seconds
And look at the little deer
Show it a little love
But not too much
Because it will expect more
We feel entitled
And I'm like
I'm gonna look at the belt
That drives the
The transaxle
And it's missing chunks
Huge chunks
Huge chunks
Huge chunks are missing from the
And I'm like
Oh boy
Mmm
That's gonna break
Really soon
So I go
I go
How available is this
30 bucks in stock
And my wife's in town
Here, honey
Here's the part number
Go ahead and buy me a belt, please
And I start tearing it apart
Pull the deck off
For the first time in years
Because I can't get to it otherwise
Mmm
I was not ready
For the level of involvement
To change that belt
It goes through the steering system
Mmm
You gotta pull the motor
Loose
All kinds of crap
So
But I'm vested at this point
I'm changing the belt
And I'm going to fire it up
I want for everybody to know at home too
He's doing this as floor work
He's
Yeah
He's out in the dirt, basically
Pretty much
So
I go and do a victory lap
That's not a victory lap
It still won't back up
Very good
Full throttle
It's like barely crawling up
You put it down
At an idle
It won't move
So
A long time ago
Lucy the lawnmower
Had gotten the rear end service
And Neil had told me all about it
And there was a special plug
And you had to flip the rando
Over and blah blah blah
And
Part of me didn't want to admit
That we had the same transaxle
Because
You know
I have a deer
He's got deer superiority
And
And my deck's still alive
Now they're all the same
Yes
100%
So
He told me
I had to pull the rear end out
Of the tractor
And I was like
I don't want to do all that work
So
The rear's on jack stands
Rear ends out
Pull it all apart
Tons of magnets
Nothing's too exciting
Oil
It's kind of there
But I was like
I'm going to
Try to save this
Mainly because my kid's interested
And mainly because I'm broke
I can't go buy my new tractor
That I want
Or zero turn
And I'm like
I'm not doing the best anything
In this thing
Everything has to be on hand
So it's like
You should use 5W 50 oil
Nope
It's getting synthetic
Whatever I got
Which I had two
Quartz of Schafer's
10W 40
On the shelf
Close enough
Good quality stuff
So I threw that in there
Wasn't quite enough
And I was like
Wait a minute
I have a 5 gallon pail somewhere
And I go and look
And it's 10W 30
I was like
Cool
So I pour that into a quart
Top it off
And I'm hearing something
Mind you
When I went to get the bucket
The little screw on lid
On the bucket
Wasn't on
Wasn't on
Had been missing for a while
Okay
I chose to ignore that
As I'm pouring out
In that
I hear stuff moving around
In the bucket
In the bucket
So
Ignored that as well
Filled up transmission
Transaxle
You have to purge it
Did all that kind of stuff
And I'm like
Okay
Now I want to get the 5 gallon bucket
Out of my life
So I'm going to fill back up
The two quarts
And put them on the shelf
And
Cause we ain't wasting Schafer's
We're not wasting it
There was
Bolts
In the bottom of the bucket
How did Bolts
Get in the oil bucket?
He didn't want them to rust
Because there wasn't any lid on it
For years
I mean
You ordered this bucket for me
Before I was full time
Oh God
And it's been living without a lid
That's a good quality oil
So
The saga continues
I have to put the rear end back
In the little deer
See if it still works
Or not
Well real fast
Since we went way over time
Geogra Deeper said
The best place for deers
In the woods
I gotta say
I don't believe in that
Because my deers
Six or seven years old at this point
It lives outside full time
Through all seasons
I don't disconnect the battery
I have
In the entire ownership of it
I have
Changed the blades once
Me too
That was only because
Neil yelled at us
Last year
Or two years ago
I don't even remember now
And I changed the ignition switch
Because it melted down on me
Other than that
There has been zero maintenance
On this tractor
Zero
Healing weeds
I'm telling you
I literally went out this year to start it
And I'm like
It's gonna be the year
And it fired right up
I'm like
Alright
We're good to go
Just start mowing
And I mow everything
Dog toys
Rocks
Tree roots
I don't care
You hear the loud noises as I'm hitting
I'm like
I don't know what to hit
But I'm gonna keep moving
I'm getting the yard node
The branches are under a certain size
They aren't a branch anymore
Exactly
Exactly
Greg had a whole conversation with me
Last week
About how I need to relocate the pedal
Of my zero turn
So that we can lift it
More efficiently
Yes
As he maneuvers around obstacles
In the yard
And I just thought
Yes, Greg
You're right
We should do that
I just mow right over it
I pivot on the deck
All the time
Just go up
Get the round corner
Yeah
Alright
Now I'm in a good spot
You were talking about
Not knowing what's under the deck
I don't know that
I think I've cleaned the deck
One time
At my entire ownership
I sent him a picture of mine
I know
I've probably already am
Oh my God
Sorry folks
This has been too much
Unless there's anything else
For the good of the order
Yeah
It was Mother's Day
And so if you've forgotten
Do something now
Yeah
Right
Celebrate somebody
Who's been motherly in your life
In some capacity
Or just some other special individual
I don't care
You know what
It's 2026
You have all the reasons
To just celebrate something
We need some little
Some win
Some win in the process
We've got a lot of jeeps to get to
Until next time
Jeep on
Jeep on
About this episode
Brakes take center stage as the hosts warn listeners about the right parts for a JLJT, tying brake wear and breakage to driving style, axle setups, and model-generation changes around the JK era. They compare JK rear brake wear rates, explain how drum-rear/disc-front history shaped expectations, and walk through brake codes (BRY vs BR guest) using VIN lookups. The conversation also covers why bedding matters, how caliper/slide issues affect rotors, and what to watch for when choosing OE vs aftermarket.
Original notes
We want to hear from you, Send us a Text
Join Neil, Scott, and Jeff on a discussion of JL/JT Brakes. Are manufacturer brakes better than box store? Are today's brakes less in quality than before? Tune in to learn why you may have bought the wrong brakes. Learn about the B R codes and how they can vary in the platform.
Thanks for listening, give us a review and check us out on YouTube -SFJ4x4 and visit our website to grab some great gear or products for your Jeep, SFJ4x4.com. Don't forget, you can email [email protected] for special content requests, blind react videos, suggestions, special guests, or general questions. Check out our Patreon patreon.com/ISpeakJeep
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