Buying a Porsche Is Fun. Selling… Not So Much. How to Do It Right

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Same and only. Welcome to Renthusiast Radio, the podcast where Will and Derek navigate the winding roads of Portia Obsession, exploring the good and the bad of Portia ownership. Grab your favorite beverage. Pull up a chair and join us. Renthusiast Radio because life's too short not to talk about portions. Welcome to Renthusiast Radio, I'm Will. And I'm Derek.

This topic is about one of the most unfun aspects of Portia ownership. It's about selling your Portia. And so what we're going to do is we're going to talk about some best practices, some lessons learned, some really kind of negative ways. We've seen some people sell their cars off of their cars. We're going to give some tips on, you know, maybe the best way to make the most painful part of the ownership experience selling it. Just a little less painful.

So Derek, I've made some notes. We had some laughs, prior to starting, you know, hitting the record button. And so we are ready to have a little fun today. So Derek, once you jump on in and add to that.

Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and head off any of the comments that people are going to leave that say, well, just don't sell. Never sell your Portia. We're going to, we're going to, we're going from listen, you're going to sell the Portia. So how do you do it?

Check out Will's YouTube channel. He has a fantastic episode up as I mentioned last week, regarding his 997 versus 991 on 11 after 9, 9, 11 turbo S 2005. That video is getting a lot of comments because it's a very rare car. And so it's exciting to see that kind of resonate with people that have owned a lot of turbos in the past.

And then finally, as you're driving, and maybe even next week, as you're driving to lift the cold in your driving groups, subscribe to Renthusius Radio on your podcast services.

We really enjoy bringing that to you. And I mentioned to you last week, Will, we are number one with people that motor lawns, according to someone who reached out to me. So I guess that's something that you can put on your wall. How do you measure that?

I don't know. Miles per grass cut. I pulled 100 Porsche dorks.

Yeah, yep. So, well, let's kick it off because it is, it is a topic that for people that own a bunch of these cars, you and I have owned a lot of Porsches. And we have had to sell a lot of Porsches. And I, I can speak personally that the longer I'm in the hobby and the more cars I've owned the less I look forward to selling cars. As a matter of fact, sometimes I look at cars.

And I go, do I want to sell that? And that precludes me from even looking into buying the car in the first place.

God, that's a great, great point. I mean, this is not a buying episode. It's a selling episode. But a point about buying is like, you know, when you're buying, you got to think about the friction on the deal when you're on your way out.

So the questions you have, the question marks you have are going to be the very same question marks your buyer is going to have. So be careful out there.

Yeah, it kind of reminds me of, you know, those movies where the guy looks at this girl and all of a sudden he lives his whole life in his head of them meeting them dating them, getting married and having kids, you know, him on her deathbed.

Well, it's kind of like that when I'm on a Facebook marketplace ad. I immediately go through my ownership experience. And I say, all right, how am I going to sell this car?

Well, in the state number one is you're buying Porsches on Facebook marketplace.

Well, listen, I'm in the market for a for a Cayman right now, right?

Yeah, I mean, I found my GT4 on Facebook marketplace with the hell am I talking about?

There you go. Actually, my base boxer same, same, same way. So but it's funny. I was talking to my brother this morning. And we were just talking about cars. I'm in that right now.

I have a, like, maybe I'm in that $20, $25,000 range and I'm looking for a Cayman to kind of add to the stable because I've never owned one.

Oh, so those of you out there, if anyone has a really cool Cayman Cayman S first generation, let me know in a stick. But hold on, hold on, hold on.

Give me your email address. That's they need to contact you because seriously, like so many may hear this, who is thinking about selling, but they're facing the same painful process that we're going to be talking about.

And so they love serving the cares. I mean, God, we ought to get something out of this. It ain't much.

Yeah, man. Well, listen, if you guys have a really cool color blue red or sweet Cayman, let me know 11 after nine at gmail.com, the number 11.

And then the words after nine. And you can find that on my YouTube as well. So who knows? Maybe I'll come out of this with a car. But that's not your learning.

You're learning, man. My channel has been a great place for me to find cars and sell cars. I need to, I need to get my head in the game.

So I was talking to my brother this morning and I said, I have this hand cream. I've always from my whole Porsche career. I've always wanted a 928.

I just, I just think they're the coolest cars. I can imagine you get one in a stick and you fall here in New England. It's like the perfect weather to drive a 928.

And I remember talking to Nick Murray and he's like never, ever, ever buy a 928. And every time I see them online, they stay for sale forever because you can't sell them.

So this is the problem that we're talking about when it comes to buying a car with the idea of selling it, it hurts.

Oh, man, buddy of mine, I doubt this is original, but like buying his fun, selling socks, he said it, you know, he said it.

So, oh, good.

I was simply going to say the nature of his business is he'll take your car and put it on a bring a trailer, manage your whole auction. He takes a percentage and then you get a check.

So sometimes it makes sense to lose money on that commission just to make the thing go away and not think about it anymore. So we'll get into that.

It becomes an albatross. The term albatross is going to come up a lot in this episode because if you, if you do things the right way, it makes the process easier because it is so easy for a car to stay up for sale for a few weeks, then a couple months and then all of a sudden you're changing of the seasons.

And so it does become an albatross because then you look to store it, you have to keep up with the maintenance and there's issues there.

I would say the first thing is if you decide to sell a Porsche, whatever you do, do not put up an ad saying I'm testing the waters.

When I see something like that, I'm like, do you just want us to stroke you to make you feel good that you might be selling a car and tell you, please pick me.

So I think if you're going to decide to sell a car, you go through these steps that we're going to describe and you put the car up for selling you sell it, you don't go wish you washing you don't back off.

Yeah, when I see those silly posts, generally that's on Facebook, I spend time on Facebook looking at Porsche groups just testing the waters.

This guy's not serious about selling or he's just looking for a sucker who's willing to pay him so much money that he just couldn't refuse.

But either way, it's just bad taste of my mouth.

And then you just kind of watch that you know, there's a small part of like a little bit of satisfaction to see how many people laugh at him or rip him up in the comments.

You know, there's a reason for that.

I'm with you.

Like if you're going to sell commit to sell now that said, I mean, I broke that rule recently.

We can talk about that a little bit later, but I'm with you 100% man.

That's just silly waste of waste of time.

And come out the deal or come out the presentation of your car with a number in mind that you're willing to sell it for and let people know.

Because I think the other thing people do is they say, I'm thinking about selling, I'm gauging interest and then they don't put anything as far as a value.

And then you have even if I was interested in that car, it tells me like, oh, this person just wants to have like a back and forth where they they want to know how much I think their car is worth.

And then they can tell me I'm crazy, you know, and then they say, this is what it really is.

So just have those things in mind when you put it up is I guess my first main point.

So how do you arrive at price, Derek?

And I'm asking that just in your opinion, what in your experience when you're going to go sell, I mean, where are you getting your information that tells you what you ought to ask.

I think that that's probably a great place to start because even before you get to the part where you prep your car in certain ways to make it more attractive to the larger audience, you definitely have to have a sense of what the value is.

And the problem with the brand that we love is that the values are so scattered based on so many things condition, rarity, color, and there's a lot of intangibles.

I mean, if you look at Kelly Blue book, it never represents what these cars are going for in the open market.

So it's a wonderful point to make.

How do you value the car?

I also honestly, well, I kind of back away a little bit about pricing to the auction market.

People always say, well, go and bring a trailer.

You know, see what those cars are going for.

And then that sets the market.

I don't think that's right necessarily unless you have a cream puff or an amazingly rare car that you can use, bring a trailer as like a comp.

I don't think that's really fair, either if you want to sell the car.

I know plenty of people that have like a 996 and it's a drive or quality.

And it's maybe a three.

So, you know, number one being concord, never driven.

One condition is the best of the best.

Number two is almost that, but you can drive it.

It has a couple like marks, you know, it shows a little bit of wear it here.

But number two is considered to be a beautiful car right up close.

Number three is where a lot of our cars set.

They're good daily drivers, they will maintain.

There's a couple things, you know, visually that need to be done.

There's maybe some maintenance.

Number four is just, you know, an iteration off of that.

Everyone in their mind has a number two car.

And I think in reality, the world is full of number three's and number four's.

So you just have to be honest with yourself.

So when you look on, bring a trailer and you see something going for $100,000.

And that's a number two car.

You say, all right, well, maybe I can...

If I look at that and then I look at marketplace and I look at private party sales,

you know, maybe I'll price it at 80, you know, because I want to sell it.

I don't want to sit on it.

And that I think is what helps motivate quite a bit.

I have some thoughts.

I mean, first of all, it continues to amaze me.

That people don't use a website called classic.com.

And classic.com is a website that aggregates, I guess,

is the right term auction results for specific models and submodels of cars.

Sure.

So for example, 997.1 Carrera S, you know, that specific model,

you can search for that plus classic.com.

And you're going to end up seeing what across different auction sites these cars are selling for.

I, for me, when I start to price two, like I spend too much time on

brand list marketplace and PCA marketplace.

I don't know how many times I look at that a day, six, eight times a day.

I don't know, just stand, you know, you're standing in line.

Get your phone in your hand.

Okay, you text somebody, but then it's like, what else am I going to do?

Oh, I'm going to go see if there's any new listings.

But as you spend time on those sites, you can at least see what people are

typically asking for specific models.

And I'll use that to inspire my pricing as well.

I think that's such a great point.

And it's kind of like this hierarchy of places you look, the auction sites.

Now, again, if you do look at the auction sites or you're on classic.com,

classic.com shows sales price, not asking price, which is important.

Because if you just look at the auction sites, you can see stuff bid into the stratosphere,

but that's not necessarily what they sell for.

And that's not how you price your car.

But I do think that those are probably the most expensive level of pricing your car.

And then a rent list is full of enthusiasts that are interested in buying and selling cars.

I think they're slightly more realistic, though I do think that folks on rent list

certainly have somewhat of an inflated sense of what their cars are worth based on

little things like what color deviated stitching they have.

Well, that's a $5,000 charge right there on the asking price.

And Porsche Club of America, same thing.

I mean, the folks generally I find the folks that are on there are presenting good cars

that have been well maintained.

But they're asking at the top of the market for their cars.

Do you find that as well?

Yeah, I mean, that actually is my favorite place to buy and favorite place to sell

because as a seller, you tend to find people there who have the money.

They know what they're looking at.

And you know, it's interesting.

This would be a different topic I'm going to want to get into.

And I don't like to generalize human beings, but you find that they're generally respectful

and communicative and they're articulate and they're not trying to low-ball you generally speaking.

You know, so when you engage with somebody there, I mean, I've sold several cars on PCA

classifieds and I've just, I've found that it is a better experience.

I've sold no cars through an auction site.

I've sold almost all my cars through the PCA.

For that very reason, unless the car's price is under $20,000

and then generally I'll turn to, you know, old school Craigslist or marketplace.

Craigslist is still alive.

Dude, here's the thing.

Here's a little insight tip for the audience.

Craigslist has, you know, fallen from grace, marketplace ate its lunch.

Craigslist went into the corner and cried for a while.

Because who wants to spend five bucks to launch your car online, right?

Because that's what it costs to put your car up.

Craigslist is coming back a little bit for those in the know.

If you know how to search correctly, there's some undiscovered deals on Craigslist

because no one's looking there.

So if someone puts a car up on Craigslist, sometimes they sit there for a little while,

but there's not a lot of people that can see them.

Especially because they get hemmed in by all of the dealer listings, you know,

spamming the crap out of, you know, your city and town.

But I don't know, Craigslist, I've found some really interesting stuff on there.

So, you know, don't sleep on that.

But anyways, as far as pricing goes,

PCA is where I love to sell my cars the most.

For sure, unless it's like a 944 for 9 or 10 grand,

you know, someone in Idaho is not going to fly out to New Hampshire to drive home

an $8,000 944.

And so the marketplace captures the geographical, you know,

wants and needs of people looking for that car.

That's kind of where I'm coming from.

If I'm on PCA selling a car, I'm going to just post it to rent list,

just on principle, you know.

It's an easy platform to upload your pictures and throw your ad up there.

So that's that's generally what I do.

All right, so you've decided you're going to sell your car.

You've decided where you're going to sell your car.

And you're in your case, you know, PCA, rent list,

and I'm in complete agreement.

I think that you really can't go wrong with those.

What do you do to make your car as attractive as possible

to put it up for sale?

And now we can talk about taking pictures.

That's kind of an obvious one for sure.

But I'm going to start and tell you that I think the biggest thing you can do

is sit down and think about the questions that you would ask someone

if you were looking to buy that car,

and then have them all answered.

We know that every model of Porsche has issues.

And people come when they're looking for a car

and they ask about those issues, right,

within the first three minutes of a conversation.

And so if you're 944 example,

have you done the timing belt and water pump every single time?

Every single time.

9996.

When did you have the IMS changed out?

These are things that you hear about all the time.

And so my before you take pictures,

before you think about how to write your ad,

my advice is if you can,

if money allows in terms of what you want to sell it for,

if the car is that nice,

try to get a lot of this stuff taken care of ahead of time.

Go spend the $2,500 to get your timing belt done

if it hasn't been done in 10 or 15 years.

Because I promise you that car is going to set

unless you can write in your ad,

timing belt just done.

And if I'm a buyer, I look at that and say,

green light, check, okay, I'm super interested

because that's something I don't have to do.

Or if you're selling a 40-year-old air cooled,

you better say engine was just rebuilt within the last 10,000 miles.

I kid.

You're talking $2,500 maintenance,

I'm talking $30,000 maintenance, you gotta do.

Yeah, I mean, listen,

and you can't have the excuse of while they all leak.

If it's not leaking, it's not full of oil.

I mean, that's crap.

But it does lead me into my next point.

And this is something I think is very valuable.

I'd love to get your take on this.

If you have a reputable indie Porsche shop in your area,

go there and have a proactive, preemptive,

PPI-done of your funds.

Pay the three or $400, have them go through it,

and then in addition to your car facts,

you have this done that you can give someone,

and now they might want to go and have their own done,

and that's fine.

They might think you're in collusion with the owner of the dealer.

All right, that's fine.

You can think that if it's a mobile garage down the road,

okay, but if it's like a reputable dealer,

you can just hand them a PPI and say,

listen, I already had this done.

And you're welcome to do your own.

But if you think everything else looks good,

this shouldn't be a stumbling block for you,

considering the car.

What do you think of that?

I look at scants at seller-provided PPI's

that were done right prior to sale.

I just do.

I appreciate it, and I would be polite about it as a buyer,

but I'm not going to like, oh my gosh,

I'm going to hang my hat on this.

I mean, I'm going to go have another one done likely,

depending on price.

And depending on my appetite for risk at the time.

So I hear you.

And I think there's plenty of honorable people out there

and there's likely some value to it.

I mean, maybe, and this comes to mind

because of an experience I had with my 997,

which was I had a poroscope done

and I didn't provide any photos.

I mean, he said the car is clean,

but there's no photos.

I would take a PPI as long as I knew when it was done,

I would have evidence of the date,

perhaps on the images.

And if it was an image-based PPI,

I mean, I could get excited about that.

But just some like list of items that they found.

I don't know, man.

Well, and this is also predicated on the point

that you're selling this car with full disclosure.

There's a lot of people that sell cars

and hope that the potential buyer doesn't catch something.

You know, and if that's the case,

the last thing you want to do is have a PPI done

of your car.

Okay, I get it.

Yeah.

I'm just, I'm thinking about,

I'm thinking over my life of buying and selling these cars.

Well, I'm smiling to myself about things that have happened

when I bought them.

Which were sold in the light, which were sold in the dark.

But you listen, you bring up a great point

and these were going to be two things I was going to mention

in addition to a PPI,

have a DME over a report done

if you're selling a manual car.

Mm-hmm.

And also have with pictures a boroscope done

if you have one of the affected year 9-11s

or Cayman's or Boxsters.

Because if I'm looking like, for example,

like we talked about it earlier,

I'm in the market looking for a Cayman.

If I'm looking at an O5 or an O6 Cayman S,

you better believe I'm doing a boroscope.

But if someone can say I just had one done in the last 30 days

and hear some pictures,

that immediately puts that car to the top of the list for me.

Because that's something I don't want to do,

but I know I have to do.

And that's money I don't want to spend.

And how about this one?

Go buy a Carfax report on the car.

I do that every single time

so that I have an up to the minute report of anything

that's, you know, I want all those records.

And I want to show it's not an accident car.

I have heard more than once.

And I do believe in these circumstances

that I heard of.

It seemed very credible.

Sellers said, hey, it's a clean carfax.

No accidents.

And then the buyer pulls it

and it's got an accident during this guy's ownership.

And he's like, holy shit.

You know, and then he has a shot.

Go look at it and say, yeah, it's been wrecked.

Or, you know, just surprises pop up after he bought it.

Maybe it was a fender bender done by the previous owner

but it had not been, you know, added to the history

or whatever the hell.

Because there is some funkiness that goes on with the carfax.

Like mechanics report.

And sometimes it shows up.

Sometimes it doesn't at the state.

So anyway, I've heard of that happening.

So before I go to sell, I want to pull the carfax

and I do this every time.

Because I don't want any fricking nasty surprises.

I want to know everything's clean as it should be.

Yeah, it's a great point.

That's what I'm telling you.

It's happened, dude.

He's, if you're just listening and not watching,

he's just like, he looks very thoughtful right now.

It's like he doesn't believe the story but he does believe the story.

Well, I just, I find that sometimes when we talk about these things,

I feel like maybe I miss the boat when it came to people handing out deviousness.

So there are some things I don't think about

as a way to kind of slip things through.

So maybe that's just being an honest rub from New Hampshire.

I don't know.

But in addition to the carfax,

receipts are really important.

If you are buying a car from a dealer

or you're buying a car from like a third party car sales place,

a lot of times they don't have receipts

and they're excuses that they want to protect the previous owners

or some bullshit like that.

But if you're selling a car

and I'm looking to buy that car,

and you say, I have a binder with receipts, right?

And I mean a binder.

Like, take the time and put them in chronological order

because that tells me that you care about the car.

You've cared about showing that the car has been maintained.

And you also are showing me that

you took the time to make sure that I understand, you know,

that the car's in great shape.

So I went over to my bookshelf that's behind me.

This is complete overkill.

So my 72-9-11.

Bernie?

Right?

Look at this.

This is page after page going back to the 70s, right, of receipts.

I even have the...

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You have the counts.

California blue plates right there.

Love it.

Right?

That's a treasure.

You have a treasure right there

because that adds so much value to the car.

Real quick though, I wanted to do a little show and tell of my own.

And for a minute, I thought I would beat you,

but I'm not sure.

So this is not a Porsche.

But it is my 1993 land cruiser.

Look at it.

And you even made your own labels in the front.

Well, this, you know what, the irony of this?

This came with the truck.

I mean, this is part of the reason.

I mean, dude, they rebuilt the motor.

I've got pictures.

It's insane what's in this thing.

And it's a big part of the reason I bought this example.

It's because like this thing needs to stay with this truck forever more.

Long after I go and take my dirt nap, you know,

some guy needs to own this truck and own this book of receipts.

I don't know.

I mean, I don't know if we want to talk about who's bigger or not.

I don't know.

I think maybe yours is.

Well, listen, it's not the size of your body.

Yeah, but you know that you do with it.

The question is, do you really want to show that?

Because it just shows how much money you've lost in the car.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, we all know I'm underwater on it.

But these are two illustrative points, right?

Or illustrative points for our English audience.

I know it's in my mind.

Well, I'm buying your Toyota, right?

And you show me that.

And I go, okay, done.

This guy's serious.

He took the time to have it organized.

The truck's been loved.

Absolutely.

And so for all of you out there that have a glove box full of receipts,

where you have them all in a shoe box, take the time,

put them on contact paper, get them in one of these binders.

It is huge.

I know it's such a silly thing to recommend.

But it does mean a lot to Porsche geeks.

I have found, I mean, I've gotten the kind of like, you know,

it's a nice, detailed record, tons of receipts,

but it wasn't organized.

So, you know, you feel good about it.

But what I'll do is I'll go buy like those hundred packs

of the plastic sleeves.

Yes.

And a nice leather binder.

And then I'll actually go through all the receipts

and put them in order, you know, it might take an hour or two.

But what's cool about that is it almost like you bond with the car

and you find pretty cool surprises in there, like on the car's history.

If it's an older like air cool car.

No, absolutely.

So, I mean, as a seller, it's only going to help your cause as a buyer and an owner.

It helps you understand the car and the history on it.

And the best part is do it right when you buy the car

if it comes with receipts, because to your astute point,

I made this binder within my first three months of owning it.

And I sat there going through that,

and I learned about the last 50 years of my car.

And it made it that much closer to me.

You know it.

So, all right, moving on.

You need to get a leather binder for it though.

Look at that.

So you just won the binder wars.

Damn it.

I'll show no go.

I'll show.

Hey, so when are we going to get into the whole like picture part of it?

How to merchandise the car?

I think if you're just doing pictures,

you are missing the boat nowadays

because the auction sites have set the bar so high,

as far as videos, walkarounds,

driving videos, cold starts, you name it,

that if...

Let me put it this way.

If I see pictures of your car and you have wrappers on the floor,

or there's pictures taken,

you just washed it, but the hose is still on the ground next to the car.

That tells me that you are serious about presenting the car

and maybe you never maintained it.

And so, if you're going to take the time to take pictures of the car,

I implore you, go get a detail.

Spend the 300 bucks, get it paint corrected

if the paint needs it.

Get it shiny.

Get the interior completely dressed up.

And then take your car out at golden hour,

the last hour before sunset,

to a really nice field or something,

and take some really meaningful pictures,

because when we're looking at so many cars,

you need to stand out.

And taking a picture of your car and your garage,

I'm sorry, taking a picture of your car in your driveway

with a wet rag over the license plate

or your thumb over the license plate,

like a complete new.

It's not going to sell your car.

Your hammer need guys.

But you're not wrong.

I've seen all these, all these I'll call them.

I'll gently say mistakes.

All right, maybe I'm a little fired up.

But I'm very passionate about this

because like, listen, you want top dollar for your car,

you have to show the people buying it

that you're putting the time and effort in

and really presenting your car as it should be.

Okay.

And I'm going to push back on the whole

don't take pictures in your driveway thing.

And I don't want to sound like I'm clever or manipulative.

I actually do this when I'm selling a car intentionally

because I want to show what kind of a caretaker,

what kind of an owner I am.

I try to get shots of my garage in the background.

Okay.

Of the car.

Because I want people to say like,

oh man, this guy takes care of his stuff.

Oh, he has a couple of other cars parked in there.

It indicates a certain level of enthusiasm

for the vehicle for the hobby.

And maybe like not a lot of people out there

are as geeky about that as I am.

But as a buyer,

if you're seeing things like that,

I get psyched.

Because I know I'm dealing with somebody who takes care of their stuff,

is really into it.

And you know, something else I look at,

outside of, you know,

from a buyer's perspective,

I'm looking at the background around the car behind the car.

And I think what you see there

and what you don't see there,

it'll tell you,

it'll, it speaks volumes about the car

and probably the quality of ownership.

It all tells a story.

And it's all additive.

And if we're investigators looking at cars,

looking to buy cars,

you look at a picture

and you draw a million conclusions subconsciously

in the background, certainly.

Even just like I said,

having that hose in the ground

that you just washed your car

and the car's wet,

you know, those little things tell me a lot

about the car, the ownership,

and they could all be wrong.

But it doesn't matter.

So you're describing the pictures

that need to be taken

that when you see them as a buyer,

your mouth's watering,

it's gorgeous.

So you just got to buy it.

I'm a little bit gorilla

in my approach, though.

I mean, I, you know,

and I am like,

I'm an amateur car photographer

I love doing what you're talking about.

But, you know,

I'll do kind of a raw

and real walk around video too

on my iPhone.

I mean, I try to keep a high quality iPhone

just because I like good pictures

and I have a YouTube channel.

But just walk around the car,

point out the flaws.

Oh, there's a little ding here.

Here's the, here's the date code on the tires

or what, you know,

what you know about it.

Oh, there's a little bit of a mark

on the center console here.

For me, I just,

I try to do that as a seller

and I find that people

really appreciate it,

especially when I'm clearly

being honest about the flaws.

Yeah, but that's round two,

I think, right?

Like, that's,

you're not putting that up,

or are you

with an initial, like, post?

That's more, like,

someone's interested

and they want to know more

and you're like,

all right, let me send you a walk around.

I don't know, man.

I mean, I might upload one

to Dropbox and link it in my add.

I mean,

I don't, I just,

I'm thinking about all different ways

that I can bring a hundred percent

transparency,

visual transparency to my add,

because again, I hate selling.

Like, I want to,

I want to do everything I can

to get this thing gone.

And make it as easy as possible.

Yeah.

So bring your trailer

has an official photography guide

that you can Google.

Interesting.

Yeah, they tell you all the angles

to take pictures,

how to take pictures

of your VIN,

of your odometer

and the full gauge cluster.

You know, what you're close

up of the different

areas are,

especially if you're

doing video.

And speaking of videos,

we mentioned it,

your cold start videos

are super important,

your walk around,

you're driving,

doing a couple polls

to show that everything,

you know, the car revs

properly,

stuff like that.

You know,

just don't do a Mustang

leaving a car show video

and end up inside a tree.

But outside of that,

those videos are definitely

important,

whether you put them

on the initial add,

that's fine.

The other thing

that you really could do,

is take pictures

of the underside.

If you know someone

with a lift,

get under there

and try to get some pictures,

I think that's very important.

And also,

paint meter.

Take paint meter readings.

Big time.

Then,

now you're talking

about some inside

of tricks that are easy

to pull off,

but they do add

peace of mind

for a buyer

when they start seeing images

of that.

Like, A, this guy knows

what he's doing,

B, these readings

speak for themselves.

If you're truthful,

you go to Amazon,

get yourself a paint meter

and you put that up,

and that speaks volumes

about the car,

and it backs up

what the car fax says

that it's a no-

stories car,

which is really important.

The other thing

that,

this is,

I'm going to call this

Porsche Nerd catnip.

This is,

this is the deep stuff

along with the,

the paint readings,

is include your

decode options

of your car.

So, Porsche has,

on a sticker,

usually in the front trunk,

a number of different

codes,

that the car was

optioned with.

And some people

take a picture of that,

and then you have to

go decode it yourself.

But, you know what I'll say,

does it come with a

limited slip differential,

sports chrono,

pasm,

PCCBs,

hard to find colors,

things like that.

If you include that

in your ad,

I, as a buyer,

look at that

and go,

oh, all right,

well, this is cool,

because number one,

the sticker is still

underneath the front hood,

which means it wasn't

in an accident,

because a lot of times.

So, yeah,

if you think about three

or four owners ago,

they didn't know what they're

doing, they pulled the sticker

off, I've seen that before.

Oh, you have?

Oh, yeah.

Like, there's still remnants

of it, you know?

Well, if there's remnants,

then, hopefully,

well, any time I've seen it gone,

it's usually because

the car has been repainted,

or it's been an accident.

Yep.

But,

and let me say this though,

like, what about

Venn Analytics?

Yep.

You know,

that's another great

tool.

And most of the time,

you can get the,

the build sheet on a car,

sometimes you can,

if it's too old,

you only get basic information,

and they try

to sell you, I guess,

the window sticker.

But most of the time,

you can find what you need there.

I was on there the other day,

looking out at

a Cayman,

and I ran it,

and it didn't come up

with anything.

It wanted me to buy the package.

So, I don't know if they've

put it all behind a paywall now.

Or not.

It used to be.

Terrorists.

Everyone wants a piece.

My God, man.

Yeah.

Also,

they don't do it the way

they used to.

What's it called,

you get your Porsche certificate

of authenticity?

Yeah.

The COA.

Yeah.

The certificate of authenticity.

That used to be really big.

They don't really do it anymore.

I think there's a different type

of authenticity you can get now

that you have to pay for.

But,

if you have an older Porsche,

having that,

that came from

the company,

and it shows

your engine number,

your transmission number,

the options.

And it helps sell the story

of the car,

if it's all original,

or it has all its own pieces.

So,

they include that.

But those kind of

Porsche nerd cat and

it things speak a lot to me,

because if someone's showing me

all of the decode options,

then I'm all about it.

I'm like,

okay, this person gets it.

They're coming from a good place.

I was looking at a

968,

and someone literally took

their

GoPro

and put it on the ground

and just drove over it.

I was like,

I appreciated the fact

it was a good try,

but I only saw

their central muffler

and I was like,

I've seen that.

I've seen that done.

It's been a long time,

but I remember seeing that,

at least once.

So, I don't know,

is there anything

I'm missing as far as

presenting your car properly?

I mean, here's the thing.

I would say,

go drive the car hard

and make sure nothing breaks,

because the last thing

you want to do

is finally get somebody

to come out

and take a peek at the car

and something goes bang,

or the test drive

is anything

except exemplary.

And I'll tell you,

this happened to me,

I was looking at a cayenne,

you're going to remember this.

The guy was,

he was kind of a,

he was a close

to the vest type,

very serious man.

And he said,

I said, hey,

do you mind if I hammer on this thing,

I want to get on the freeway?

I mean, clearly,

I need to know

what I'm dealing with here.

And I start getting in that gas, man,

and the check engine

like comes on

and then the limp mode notification.

And it was just awkward,

because, you know,

you're committed to the highway now.

Like, you've got to ride

with the guy for a certain period of time,

until you get on the,

you guys are besties.

And it's like,

did you just see that?

Yeah, I saw that.

All right,

as long as we both agree

that we saw it,

because it went off,

you know, I pulled off

and I was like,

all right, I'll turn the car off

if you will agree.

So I turned it off,

and of course,

the light goes away.

But the point is,

the dude didn't do his homework

and didn't drive the car hard,

apparently,

or else he had really bad luck.

There's nothing worse than,

oh, that's never done that before.

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Yes.

So when do you pull the trigger?

Well, you know,

do you try to time your sales for the time of year?

Do you try to time your sales

around certain Porsche events?

Man, I mean,

do you know you're trying to

drive a tractor of oil.

Man, I mean,

do you know you're talking to here?

Like I am probably

the least intentional guy.

Like, I woke up today

and I decided I wanted out of the car

and so, you know, there's that,

and I wanted to tell you

what the T-shirt,

I wanted to tell you

about the T-shirt that I need to get made up.

OK.

The T-shirt's very, very simple.

It says,

I lose money on cars,

it's what I do.

You know,

I mean, that's just the fact reality.

I mean, I just,

I mean, I just, so I can't, I'm sadly I can say I don't.

I know some people do.

What you're talking about, but not I.

Yeah, I forget who I'm asking.

Sorry, that was an unfair question to you

because the question, the time to sell would be Tuesday.

No, no, no, today.

And I'm gonna get into that in a moment.

How do you get out?

How do you pull the rip cord and get the thing gone

within 24 hours?

Because I've done that, but keep going.

Well, that's fair.

Let me, I'll mention this.

I think in this world we live in now, in this digital world,

seasonality, a lot of that has gone away

because people don't have a problem

shipping a car across country from a dry climate,

even if in the middle of winter they'll put it in a garage.

The local markets, you know, in New England,

it's January, but I really want a car.

I can still look to find cars elsewhere

and people are still selling them.

So I don't know if seasonality is as strong.

However, I do know this.

If I have a car and I don't have space,

I don't have your garage, right?

I don't want to store it.

And I am going to be a little bit more motivated

in the late fall.

If I'm on the bubble, I'm going to be more motivated

to sell it and I'm going to be more motivated to buy it.

So, you know, take that into account for what it is,

but no longer, and, you know,

yeah, do I think about maybe buying a cayenne?

If I'm coming into the winter

because I want to drive a fun car in the winter,

maybe a stick cayenne.

Yeah, okay, maybe, but I do think seasonally

mostly has kind of gone away.

If you put it up, you have people calling you

from the PCA, from Washington State, New Mexico, Florida,

it doesn't really matter.

They'll put it on a truck.

So it was late fall and wintered like a bad time

to sell a cab, do you think,

or is that just not relevant anymore either?

I don't know, man.

I used to think so, but I don't think that's true anymore.

I don't see the prices appreciably change,

or at least I don't see sellers dropping their price a lot

unless it's in that situation

where they don't want to store it and they're just done

and they're just fire selling it,

but that doesn't happen anymore, really.

Not with Porsche.

I haven't seen a fire sale Porsche that's worth it

and they're not trying to hide crap.

I haven't seen that in a while,

but I don't know, I'll let you know.

If you are in an auction, you can time your auction

and you usually want to time it for a weekday night

when you know people are in front of the computer

and they're betting maybe after they've had a drink or two.

Amen.

So certainly, you can time it from a micro standpoint.

Also, they say that cars kind of come and go

in terms of popularity, they're macro cycles,

every 4.2 years.

So a 9.96, no one really loves, 4.2 years later,

maybe it comes back into Vogue, it kind of comes up

and then it kind of comes down.

Interesting.

That's kind of an interim way you can look at some cars

is if you go back on classic.com

and look how they've been tracking for the last five years,

are they up or are they down?

Maybe that'll help you time the market

if that's really what you want to do.

If you don't have a fire burning to get it right away

and you have time to wait, but who is like that?

Nobody, if you want that car you want it today

and you're looking everywhere to get it.

At least that's how I am and I know that's how you are.

Yeah, I mean, I've got a friend that will,

you know, he's crazy, you've got massive self control.

Everything about a car will line up exactly

with what he is seeking.

But if he, like this dude, I'm not even kidding you.

Even on a $75,000 car, if he feels he's overpaying

even by 1,000 and the guy won't budge, like, he'll walk.

I mean, he's, that's the type of guy

that really cares about all this timing to market and all that

and he will just wear you out as a seller too.

Like you cannot, he'll play possemonia.

He'll, you know, it's, it's anyway.

Some people are like that.

Super hero level power that I don't have.

I have the power of self delusion.

I have the, in the past I've looked at a car

and I've convinced myself that I should buy it

when I know I shouldn't, when I know it's overpriced.

I knew, hey, I'll take a loss on this one, you know,

because I'll make it up on the next one.

Yeah.

And this is why we don't take ourselves seriously

and even though we're coming at you

with all these little pointers that we've learned over the years,

there's always the other side of the rule.

So only take this advice so far.

Yeah, man, I think big picture is you're going to go

to the right places.

You're going to take good solid photographs.

Go look at, bring a trailer's guide.

I've never even heard of that.

That's a phenomenal tool it sounds like.

Write your ad in such a way that it's factual

and objective and neutral don't come in there

like who was the guy selling the Gensu knives, right?

Remember that?

I do, I do, I do.

You know, some guy writes an ad for a Porsche.

Imagine yourself.

You know, no, be factual about the history of the car,

what you know, what's good with it.

Maybe what it needs and, you know, be available to buyers

like people inquire, get right back to them.

Be an open book, you know, show them what they want to see.

And if it doesn't work for them,

if they're pissed off because the tires need to be replaced

and they don't, you know, they want to grind on you,

you're not willing to do it.

Okay, I'm sorry, I'm not willing to do it.

And just be honest.

Yeah, don't play games.

I agree.

Yeah, saying I know what I got, that doesn't help anybody.

So I want to get rid of this car in 24 hours.

How do we do it?

Okay, so there's a couple of ways.

There's a couple outside of setting it on fire

and leaving it on the field.

You know, I'm just pausing here.

I'm thinking about like, I have some friends

who are like brokers and dealers in this world

and I'll kind of softly float over these guys

and say, hey, look, I want it gone.

Do you have anybody who's a buyer?

And you get, fundamentally, the premise here is

like the way to get it done is you're going to lose money.

You're going to take a hit on it.

And you know, you got to ask yourself,

am I willing to do this to get it gone

or is it going to kill me later if I do it?

For me, I found that I just want it gone.

I hate selling the car.

I hate dealing with buyers blah, blah, blah.

And so, you know, you kind of softly float that out there

and if they don't have anybody, you call a,

I'm hesitant to like name names, right?

A Ryan Friedman, you call him.

You say, I got a car.

Here's what's important to me.

I want it gone quickly.

And he's going to give you a number

that's going to be less than what you would want to get

and less than you can get on the open market.

And the reason is because he's got a business to run

and he needs to make a rip on the car

but the nice thing about dealing with guys like that,

they will wire you the money if not the same day.

The next day, a truck will show up in front of your house

and poof, it'll be gone.

You know, that's been the best way

to make something disappear.

Another point I'll make,

and I want to hear your response.

Before you go there, just explain,

like people might not know his name.

Like what kind of business does he represent?

Like prestige brokers in the partial world, okay?

So their independent dealers are not factory dealers.

They tend to have really choice examples

but these guys are, they're out there.

So there's like Ryan Friedman.

There's grand pre-motors.

There's what is it, Holt?

Right? Have you heard of these guys there?

I haven't heard Holt.

Okay.

So all these guys are out there

and you can find them online

but they're, what's interesting is they have actually

assembled teams of people that scour the same ads

that you and I scour on PCA

and they're hit and sellered with low ball offers

like left and right.

And these guys find listings as soon as they come on.

But anyway, my point, you know, back to it

and I'm sorry I should have clarified,

I could free them, Friedman, it's an independent dealer.

Call the guy, get the number.

Why are you the money and it's gone?

Yeah, they're the type of people that whenever you go on

and you see the one to buy ads,

people are like, you know, I'll buy any portion.

Let me know and they'll make it go away

but to your point, it won't be for what you want

because they need to make money on it.

Yeah, or else you can wait three months

and deal with 25 buyers

and yeah, you got that extra 10 grand

but what price, you know, at what cost?

I also have a friend who's a GM of a factory dealer

and when I have a candidate for him,

I'll often reach out and I'll just take the hit.

My experience as you move up in price points,

you get closer to 100,000 dollars,

it becomes even more difficult to sell

and what I've concluded is it's because, you know,

people begin to have other options.

So if you're not a deep portion person

and you have 100 grand,

you're thinking about portion but maybe other brands

as a seller, like it just, it makes it more difficult.

It had at least in my experience.

So I took a 10,000 dollar loss on a GT4

because of that fact

and finally the truck showed up, took it away

and I got the money away to my account.

It hurt a little less after that when it's gone

but you're right, at 100,000 dollars,

you're looking at used astins.

I mean, maybe some, there's a whole crop

of Ferrari vintage that you could look at.

And so, yeah, you definitely have some competition.

I actually think that on the other end,

it's incredibly hard to sell sub $15,000 portions

because you get anyone who might have 5,000

and wants to buy it or low-ball you at 10,000

and your car is at 15,000

but they'll come and try to test drive it.

And that's where you just get into wasting your time

in the grind of showing the car over and over again.

Just what we don't want.

All right, well, so obviously this is not an exhaust

of list of things, but it is kind of these things

that we think of when we go to sell the car.

Hopefully the audience got a sense

of where our heads are at on the must-do's

when you're looking to move along a piece of property.

I think that you just have to be willing to lose

a little bit of money if you want to go and quickly

or if you have a nice enough example, it will sell.

You just have to just sit and just let it be out there

and be very responsive.

Yep, yep.

Well, as we open with, we'll close with this.

Buying is fun, selling sucks.

Maybe some people like it, I hate it.

Anyway, man, it sucks.

It's always fun, it's always fun

and I'll look forward to chatting

with you next time, my friend.

Yeah, absolutely.

We'll see you down in a little bit called later, man.

Later.

And that's a wrap for this episode of Renthusiast Radio.

We hope you enjoyed diving deep

into the world of porches with us today.

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Buying a Porsche Is Fun. Selling… Not So Much. How to Do It Right

Porsche Cayman

Cayman S

Porsche Career

Porsche 944

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