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Granger for the ones who get it done.
01:11
This is America on the Road, named Best Radio Show by the International Automotive Media
01:18
Conference and now in its 33rd year on the air.
01:21
Thanks for being with us.
01:22
This is, we bring you the latest automotive information from around the world.
01:26
With me is guest co-host Matt DeLorenzo.
01:29
Matt, you just got back from Europe.
01:31
I'm curious about how your trip was.
01:34
We did a little visit at Munich and then we did a Danube River cruise and ended
01:39
up in Budapest for a couple of days.
01:40
So, let's pick that.
01:42
Yeah, well, I went to Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, so a little bit different than
01:47
Plenty of news to talk about this week.
01:49
Ford's Model T moment came and went this week.
01:51
We'll have our comments on what we heard and saw and what we didn't.
01:55
We'll tell you all about that coming up.
01:58
And General Motors had a debacle with its crew's self-driving vehicle division,
02:04
but now GM execs have decided to give autonomous driving another go.
02:08
There's a big shift this time around.
02:10
I, for one, find it very surprising.
02:12
Are you surprised by their new tack on this, Matt?
02:16
You know, the way that they're couching it as an extension of supercruise makes
02:19
a lot of sense, but yeah, I was surprised.
02:22
Yeah, well, we'll talk about that at length in the next segment.
02:25
Mercury Insurance has just released its annual list of vehicles that are the most
02:28
affordable to insure and we'll have all the details for you on that.
02:32
And there's good news from Dodge about one of our favorite vehicles, the Dodge
02:35
Durango, which was our constant companion during our recent Made in America tour.
02:39
We'll tell you all about the recent developments for 2026 coming up.
02:44
So we have a lot to talk about this week.
02:47
Is there a story you find most interesting, Matt?
02:49
I think the Model T thing moment is going to be a big talking point for the future.
02:57
Yeah, in more ways than one.
03:00
America on the Road is brought to you by drivingtoday.com.
03:03
The publisher of my latest book, Only One Thing Stays the Same and Mercury Insurance.
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03:26
Well, as you long time listen to this show, no, Matt is the author of How to Buy an
03:29
Affordable Electric Car, a tightwad's guide to EV ownership.
03:32
We've been reviewing cars for years and we like to get together to talk about cars.
03:37
Typical co-host, Chris Teague, is off this week.
03:40
Matt, what is your test vehicle for this week?
03:42
It's going to be the all-electric Ioniq 9 from Hyundai.
03:45
It's a three-row, full-size SUV.
03:49
I think it's interesting and I can't wait to hear your take on it.
03:52
Matt, my test vehicle this week is the 2025 Mazda CX-5 Carbon Edition.
03:57
It's one of the most cost-effective vehicles I've driven this year.
04:00
So a lot coming up.
04:02
Stay with us and we'll be right back right here on America on the Road.
04:09
Welcome back to America on the Road with guest co-host Matt DiLorenzo.
04:13
This is Jack D. Redback with you.
04:15
Chris Teague is off this week.
04:16
I think he's fetching a press car in Boston or somewhere.
04:19
So we're lucky to have Matt with us.
04:22
It's always a pleasure to have Matt with us and Matt, there was something
04:26
that was touted to us a week or so ago, Ford's Model T Moment.
04:32
Their $5 billion EV, as it turns out, EV, Gamble, I guess, is a way to describe it,
04:39
where they did a big press conference
04:42
and made sure that everybody who was anybody who was paying attention
04:46
to this listening in and all that.
04:48
And I don't know about you, but I had a particular reaction to this.
04:52
I'm kind of curious as to your reaction before I spoil the pot by telling mine.
04:58
Well, you know, they've already wasted $5 billion on electric vehicles.
05:04
So to commit another $5 billion more and to sort of reinvent this thing.
05:10
I mean, there's some good elements in terms of the assembly line process.
05:15
But we've heard this thing for years about the skateboard
05:19
and using common architecture for different vehicles.
05:23
There's nothing new here and it's kind of repackaging
05:27
and they're promising a $30,000
05:33
crew cab pickup in two years when they already have the Maverick.
05:38
You know, I I'm not inclined to give them a pass on what they.
05:43
Well, yeah, I'm entirely with you.
05:46
I think this thing fell flat.
05:48
Something big was touted.
05:49
They never even showed us the vehicle, not even a rendering anything.
05:53
You know, I spent an hour of my my life that I'm never going to get back
05:57
watching, you know, a guy I liked him Farley talk.
06:00
But then the governor of Kentucky, you know, gave his kind of speech.
06:06
And, you know, there were plenty of people from the various
06:11
UAW was heavily represented in this presentation,
06:14
but not much in the way of product presentation.
06:17
And when you're promising something as earth shattering as the Model T,
06:21
I think maybe there's got to be a little more beef there.
06:24
Yeah. And again, the affordability is an issue.
06:27
And the fact that the target price of this thing is more than the Maverick.
06:33
So, you know, the Model T didn't come out costing more than other cars.
06:39
Now, now this may this electric may cost less than other
06:43
electrics on the market, but it's certainly not going to be the lowest
06:47
price vehicle on the market.
06:49
So for it to lead some sort of EV revolution that may or may not happen,
06:58
I'm I'm highly skeptical.
07:00
Yeah, I mean, I also wonder at the timing of this.
07:03
I mean, I think you and I have talked about, I think already, maybe we
07:07
reached peak EV, at least for the time being, because, you know,
07:11
certainly there's a giant headwinds against EVs these days, including
07:16
the the end of the tax breaks for EV purchase.
07:19
I just I'm hard pressed to see.
07:23
Again, as you mentioned, what was new here, we've seen so much of it
07:28
reminded me of General Motors Altium announcement that was three or four years
07:33
I mean, it's kind of the same, same stuff, but, you know, maybe packaged
07:38
a bit differently, but not a little bit further.
07:40
Jack, remember Saturn?
07:42
Yeah, it threw it up.
07:43
Yeah, I do remember Saturn.
07:46
And Saturn did meet with limited success when it when it came out.
07:50
It was sort of revolutionary.
07:53
But again, the cost structure and trying to compete with low cost
07:57
cars from other countries.
07:59
And again, this is where I think tariffs really come into play, where
08:03
I hear a lot of complaining out of Detroit about the tariffs, when in
08:07
fact the 25 percent tariffs on trucks has protected that goldmine for them.
08:12
Yeah, forever and ever had these other tariffs all along.
08:16
Maybe they could have a sustainable, affordable small car on the market today.
08:21
But, you know, they did it to themselves.
08:25
They exported a lot of their chain supply chains and things.
08:30
Getting that stuff back is going to take time and it's not going to be cheaper.
08:35
I mean, just getting back to the car, what we heard about the car, it's kind
08:40
of more interesting or telling what we didn't hear about the car.
08:44
You know, the range of the vehicle, charge times about the vehicle.
08:49
There's a lot of things about it that if this was going to wow us,
08:55
I think there should have been more.
08:57
I'm just I kind of amazed at what I saw as this unfolded in front of me.
09:05
I think they should have had some sort of concept of drawing something other
09:10
than that little changing icon showing like SUV and a pickup truck and whatever.
09:16
But it's still and and for it to be happening in a two year time frame
09:25
is also a head scratcher because all new vehicles, even if they're electric,
09:32
still take at least three years, as far as I know, to bring the market.
09:37
And I I think this thing's going to slip as well, which isn't great
09:42
for helping their credibility on on these issues.
09:45
No, I just don't know why they came out with this at this point.
09:48
I mean, it could be exciting.
09:50
I just don't think it was as exciting as it was suggested it would be.
09:56
Let's put it that way.
09:58
I wish them luck, but it's no revolution.
10:01
Well, here's another bit of a head scratcher, too.
10:03
General Motors is putting autonomous driving back into the fast lane.
10:08
This time it's aiming for consumers, as opposed to ride hailing.
10:13
You know, it shut down its cruise robotaxi unit last year amid,
10:18
you know, a great deal of controversy and problems.
10:21
And this and that, including, I think, some injuries in the San Francisco
10:25
area, some bad bad stuff.
10:27
Now they're putting together a new effort, and it's going to focus
10:32
on self-driving for consumers, which strikes me as a lot harder
10:36
than for a robotaxi, right?
10:38
I mean, a robotaxi, you have some kind of controlled environment
10:42
in which you're operating in this situation.
10:46
You could be operating the vehicle anywhere, right?
10:48
Well, you know, I think one of the things that I heard
10:51
from this announcement was the fact that they're looking at it
10:54
as an extension of their super cruise program.
10:57
So I think the robotaxi thing was highly ambitious, very expensive
11:02
to do, and something that's kind of outside of their core business.
11:08
Whereas I see they're kind of dragging autonomy back in
11:11
closer to their core business, which is building cards for consumers.
11:15
And if they can build on what seems to be a successful super cruise
11:20
program, it makes sense because it'll cost less than the cruise project.
11:28
And it's an extension of stuff that's going on already in-house.
11:32
So it's incrementalism, I call it.
11:36
That makes some sense to me, and I'm glad you put that into perspective.
11:39
Let's talk about Mercury's list of the most inexpensive vehicles
11:45
I mean, Chevrolet Colorado LT tops the list of trucks
11:50
than the Silverado C3500.
11:54
Ford is there with the Maverick, aforementioned Maverick,
11:57
the Ranger pickup, the F-150, and F-350 Super Duty.
12:00
Those are all fairly clear ones.
12:04
The Hyundai Santa Cruz is on the list, as is the Toyota Tundra and the Tacoma.
12:09
So that's covered up pretty well.
12:12
Hyundai Santa Fe is the ranked as most affordable to ensure among SUVs.
12:18
And several Hondas are on the list.
12:20
It's kind of interesting.
12:21
A lot of people, I don't think, pay much attention to how much it costs
12:25
to ensure a vehicle before they buy it.
12:27
But it's an important part of your cost over time, isn't it?
12:30
It's a great thing to look at.
12:31
I mean, it's part of your total cost.
12:33
And the fact that they're putting this list out there
12:36
to give you a heads up is really valuable consumer information.
12:41
Here's another piece of consumer information I think is interesting.
12:43
Dodge Durango is going to be all V8 all the time coming for 2026.
12:49
They're they're dropping the V6 engine, which had some issues, frankly.
12:53
And I love the fact of what they're doing here.
12:56
I think they're making Dodge Dodge, right?
12:59
And I think that's kind of a cool thing to do.
13:01
You know, this is more evidence, too, that kind of relaxing
13:04
the fuel economy standards, getting rid of the fines.
13:08
This will allow people to buy vehicles that they want to buy.
13:11
It'll allow Stilanus to build vehicles that they need to survive.
13:15
And I think it's a win-win for for Dodge and Stilanus.
13:20
Yeah, I love all of these things.
13:22
The Dodge, the Durango RT is going to be priced around $43,000
13:27
with a big ramp and stop and V8.
13:30
So a lot of a lot of stuff there like that a lot.
13:33
And of course, the Hellcat we had is just terrific
13:35
and also very effectively priced.
13:38
Remind me, Matt, of the vehicle you're testing.
13:42
I'm driving I've driven the Hyundai Ioniq 9
13:46
electric three row SUV and I will be testing the Mazda CX-5 carbon edition.
13:51
So stay with us for that and we'll be right back right here on America on the road.
14:02
Welcome back, everybody, to America on the road.
14:04
Jack Knee-Red with you, along with guest co-host Matt DiLorenzo.
14:07
We always love having Matt on the show at his road test time.
14:10
And we have a couple, I think, very interesting vehicles for you.
14:14
We try to have interesting vehicles.
14:16
I mean, this is an entertainment show after all.
14:18
But Matt, you were driving a three row electric SUV.
14:25
Yes, I was behind the wheel of a Hyundai Ioniq 9,
14:28
which is three row full size SUV,
14:32
all electric, all wheel drive.
14:34
I had sort of the mid trim level SEL and it starts at about $66,000.
14:43
And it offers a range of 320 miles, which is quite good.
14:48
You can get a base, just a two wheel drive model,
14:53
215 horsepower, that'll go 335 miles.
14:57
Or if you want the more performance version,
15:00
that'll go 311 miles, but you get over 400 horsepower.
15:04
The one I had had 300 horsepower, which was more than enough
15:08
for merging, getting on the freeway and driving around town.
15:12
It's an interesting looking vehicle, I have to say.
15:15
When you when you look at it from the front,
15:17
it looks like a regular SUV.
15:21
Inside kind of has the same SUV-ish look.
15:24
But you get around to the back and it looks like a spaceship.
15:28
It has a kind of a long roof that just goes straight down
15:32
in a vertical lift back.
15:36
And it's got this really kind of cool LED lights
15:39
that make a horseshoe effect around the top of the around
15:43
the roof and the top of the liftgate.
15:46
So I think some people think that's too strange for me.
15:50
Other people go, that's really cool.
15:52
Right. So I like the look.
15:56
And it had a couple of really interesting features.
15:59
You could adjust the
16:02
regen using the paddles and go to one one pedal driving.
16:08
And I always wonder, you know, I think when I have
16:11
like a one pedal thing going, I lift, I go,
16:13
do my brake lights come on?
16:16
You know, because you're not.
16:17
Yeah, good question.
16:17
I always wondered that, too.
16:18
They have that they have a little avatar
16:22
in the middle of the dash.
16:24
And I played with this thing.
16:26
And if you're on zero or one and you lift,
16:30
the lights won't come on till you hit the break.
16:33
But if you're in any other regen mode, when you lift,
16:36
when you lift and on a little icon, your brake lights go on.
16:40
So it's to me, it was reassuring.
16:41
And that was like a big, that was a big deal.
16:45
Well, nuance does mean a lot in cars these days.
16:50
So overall, I was I was I was very impressed with the vehicle.
16:54
Now, I will say I did take it to an EV Go station to
16:59
to recharge before they came to pick it up.
17:02
And I on DC charging, it took 45 minutes
17:09
to get 85 percent charge, which got it back up over 300 miles.
17:16
It cost almost 60 bucks.
17:19
I was paying 73 cents a kilowatt hour
17:23
for the recharge, which is triple what I pay at home.
17:26
So that was like premium gas, right?
17:29
Thinking you're going to save gas, you know,
17:32
electrons can cost a lot, especially if you use public
17:34
charging. Right. Right.
17:36
One of the things I found about the Ioniq nine is the interior space.
17:40
It doesn't seem all that big exterior wise.
17:43
But because of the architecture, the fact that it's an electric,
17:46
I mean, there's a lot of interior space, isn't there?
17:49
Yeah, especially in the second and third rows.
17:51
I think that long roof helps those two rows feel a little bit roomier.
17:56
You can get these really cool captain's chairs that have like
18:01
footrest or leg rests that come out.
18:03
It really is a comfortable vehicle.
18:05
It's almost mini van.
18:08
They have they have a front console that will slide back and forth
18:12
or you can take it out to have that old pass through effect.
18:17
That you would get in a minivan, which is kind of odd because
18:20
their sister division, Kia, they have a minivan,
18:25
the carnival and the cockpits more like an SUV.
18:28
So it's kind of a roll reversal here.
18:31
But I kind of like it.
18:32
I think there's a lot of little innovation and surprise
18:37
and delight features that have been missing from vehicles lately.
18:41
Yeah. And what was the price?
18:44
What was the price?
18:45
And you probably have talked about it.
18:48
So the one the one I had was the midline.
18:51
It was like sixty six thousand dollars, which is, you know, a little spendy.
18:55
But for a full size SUV, you know, if you're if you're in like a
19:01
traverse, you know, a gas one traverse, you probably spend as much.
19:05
The cheapest one comes in at about fifty nine thousand
19:08
and the most expensive one, which is the calligraphy and the performance,
19:13
is about seventy six thousand dollars.
19:15
So, you know, as far as electric SUV goes, it is competitively price.
19:20
Yeah. As an electric SUV, as a full size SUV.
19:23
Well, it's it's no Chevy Tahoe.
19:26
That's that is not it is not I was driving a vehicle that
19:31
we complain a lot about vehicles being so expensive these days.
19:35
I think the Mazda CX five carbon edition that I was driving
19:39
is one of the most cost effective vehicles
19:41
I've driven this year and there's a lot to like about it.
19:44
I think in a lot of ways this is a premium SUV without a premium price.
19:49
There are things about it that are not particularly premium,
19:52
but the the premium stuff is the exterior styling the interior.
19:56
We had red leather interior and this thing that makes a statement.
20:00
Certainly a lot of safety items.
20:03
Sandy and I, my wife and I had a chance to drive the six five
20:07
on a round trip about 300 miles to eastern San Diego County.
20:11
We attended a wedding down there kind of sweltered in the wedding
20:14
and then came back, but this turned out to be a great vehicle to do that in.
20:18
You know, plenty of room for our luggage, plenty of room for another couple
20:21
to ride to the rehearsal dinner with us and all that kind of stuff.
20:26
It's good looking vehicle, 19 inch black alloy wheels kind of set it off.
20:30
It has, you know, good looking black power mirrors, integrated turn lamps,
20:35
rain sensing wipers.
20:36
It has a lot of premium features, I think, Matt.
20:39
I mean, what's your kind of overall take on CX-5 and the carbon addition in it specifically?
20:47
Well, I like that vehicle and I thought, you know, when they brought out the CX-50,
20:51
that that it wasn't going to be long for the world.
20:54
But obviously it it it meets a need within the Mazda line.
20:58
They've kept it in the lineup.
21:00
And I think, you know, the size is is fairly comparable to the CX-50.
21:05
But again, the price is not.
21:06
And it still comes across as a premium vehicle.
21:10
It's very comfortable to drive.
21:12
It's very practical and it's stylish.
21:14
I mean, really, Mazda has had a way with their exterior styling of making it look
21:23
Good stuff, too, like the power lift gate, power moon roof.
21:26
I mean, those are in a lot of ways.
21:28
This is like a luxury brand vehicle, I would say, maybe under the hood,
21:33
and not necessarily a luxury brand in that it had a two and a half liter inline
21:37
four cylinder engine.
21:38
This was not turbocharged.
21:40
It's normally aspirated.
21:41
I kind of like that, actually.
21:42
187 horsepower, 185 pound feet of torque, not tons of power, but adequate,
21:48
more than adequate power.
21:49
And I think most people would find this absolutely fine in terms of acceleration.
21:55
Has a six-speed automatic transmission, which is kind of a Mazda idiosyncrasy
21:59
when we're seeing eight, nine, ten speeds from a lot of other people.
22:03
It has a sport mode.
22:05
And it was fun to drive.
22:07
I mean, we were driving two-lane, you know, zoop, zoop, zoop, kind of twisty two-lanes
22:13
there in eastern San Diego County, pretty significantly, and had a great time with it.
22:18
So again, I think the performance is more than adequate.
22:22
All-wheel drive is standard.
22:25
Good suspension tuning, which we expect from Mazda.
22:29
Fairly good fuel economy.
22:31
828 miles per gallon combined.
22:34
Not blowing you away, but plenty of range, 428 miles of range on a full tank of gas.
22:42
And it has a cylinder deactivation, too, which works well for fuel economy.
22:47
And again, the interior, I like the fact that it has eight-way power seat and a power front
22:52
passenger seat, which you don't necessarily see in vehicles at this price range.
22:57
And I should mention the price.
22:58
It was around $33,000.
23:00
So I think that's pretty darn cool.
23:03
Your overall take, Matt.
23:06
I think affordability is key here.
23:10
And it is a usable size.
23:12
You know, there are some of the, there are certainly smaller SUVs out there that aren't
23:18
as premium that cost just as much.
23:21
So I think this is really a nice niche that they've landed in, in being able to leverage
23:28
a lot of the premium stuff they use on their other vehicles and put it in the CX-5 and then
23:33
make a compelling case for it with a great...
23:37
Well, as you mentioned, it's long on the tooth, but they fill it with stuff in terms of safety,
23:42
blind spot monitoring, of course, lane departure, lane keeping assist, rear cross traffic
23:47
alert, which not all vehicles in its price range have.
23:51
So smart brake support as well, radar cruise control, I got to try that on the freeway
23:57
is out there and then it's 10 and a quarter inch color display infotainment system worked
24:05
It has some Mazda idiosyncrasies to it, but they're sorting that out.
24:09
I think this is a heck of a vehicle at the price of, again, I think our price as
24:14
tested, I'm going to look at it right here, it is $33,185.
24:20
I think these days that's pretty darn good.
24:22
You know, one of the things that they do is they haven't been overtaken with touchscreen
24:28
So I'm a little bit more comfortable.
24:30
Some people complain a little bit about the rotary control, but I think it's a little
24:35
bit more intuitive to use than some of these more heavily touch screen driven schemes
24:43
that you get in some of these.
24:45
Well, and if you're using Apple CarPlay, which we use frequently, you can use it
24:49
as a touchscreen, so that worked fairly well.
24:52
What you don't have to, you can use the controller there, which used to be kind of the state of
25:02
Some people, again, might complain about the infotainment system, but I think it worked
25:05
quite well for us and overall the vehicle worked quite well for us, a good blend of
25:10
style technology and fun to drive.
25:14
Fun to drive in something that doesn't cost you the roof.
25:17
I think that I like that a lot.
25:21
And when we come back, we will have a special guest.
25:24
His name is Frank Hanley.
25:25
He is JD Power's Senior Director of Auto Benchmarking.
25:28
He's going to be talking about the recently released initial quality study.
25:32
So if you care about what vehicles are high quality, well, you will hear it from the
25:38
horse's mouth from Frank Hanley at JD Power, so stay with us for that and we'll be
25:42
Hi, I'm Jack Arnie Redd and I'd like to tell you about my newest crime novel, Only One
25:56
Thing Stays the Same.
25:58
In a style reminiscent of James M. Kane and Jim Thompson, two of my writing idols, the
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book chronicles of blue collar workers up and down love affairs with two modern
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Southern California women who continue to surprise, shock, and ultimately confound him.
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As the story unfolds, an unemployed aeronautics worker named Bill McCurdy becomes disillusioned
26:18
with his wife and slips into an illicit affair with a teenager from down the street.
26:23
Before long, he begins to think of doing the unthinkable, but despite his desperate
26:27
attempts to make things work, almost nothing goes as planned.
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His misguided quest for simple love doesn't turn out to be simple at all.
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And before the roller coaster ride stops, he learns quite personally and very finally
26:40
that Only One Thing Stays the Same.
26:44
Only One Thing Stays the Same is available in Kindle e-book and paperback form, exclusively
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I'd appreciate it if you'd look for it today.
26:57
Welcome back everybody to America on the Roadside.
27:00
We have a terrific guest who's been on the show before, a very knowledgeable guy
27:05
Frank Hanley is Senior Director of Auto Benchmarking at JD Power.
27:09
We're going to talk about vehicle quality and specifically initial quality.
27:14
Frank, number one, thanks for being with us.
27:17
It's great to have the opportunity to talk to you.
27:19
I love this study, the initial quality study.
27:23
I mean, it's one of the seminal JD Power studies, certainly along with what used
27:27
to be customer satisfaction is now a little bit different.
27:33
But tell us a bit what JD Power means by initial quality, would you?
27:39
So the initial quality study looks at new vehicles that customers have purchased at 90
27:45
So this looks, once they've had the vehicle at 90 days, we send out a survey to them,
27:50
ask them out of 227 attributes if they've had any problems.
27:55
We simply collect that feedback and directly feed it back to the consumers and the manufacturers
28:00
so they get an idea of how cars are currently doing in the new model year for quality.
28:07
It's really kind of aimed to provide with manufacturers with information about how
28:11
their cars are launching and whether they're launching with good quality or they're coming
28:16
back and people are a bit upset with them.
28:19
But it also can be used, I think, by consumers as one of the many guides that JD Power
28:25
And we can dive into that a little bit later.
28:27
But let's talk a little bit about just what the top line findings here, what you discovered
28:35
Well, I mean, the good news this year is we did see the industry improve this year.
28:39
So the industry did have a lower problem count this year.
28:43
We do break it out by mass market and premium brands.
28:46
So mass market brands, they actually did get worse though this year.
28:50
Mass market brands actually are done by, had an increase of six problems over where
28:55
they were last year.
28:56
Really what drove the improvement on the industry was on that premium side.
29:00
Premium brands actually improved by 27 problems this year.
29:04
So big improvements on the premium sides.
29:07
But we did start digging into those premium models where that improvement came from.
29:12
It was predominantly from a very big improvement from Tesla this year.
29:16
As you can imagine, Tesla's a big chunk of the premium market with their high sales
29:22
And when they had a big improvement this year, it actually drove the entire premium
29:26
segment to move up with quality this year.
29:31
But I think still mass market brands as a whole were better in terms of problems than
29:40
I mean, mass market tends to just on average do better than premium brands.
29:43
I mean, if you think about contacting and stuff, premium brands come with the full
29:47
breath of all the latest and greatest technologies where mass market takes a while for them
29:53
to catch up for the high penetration that we see on.
29:56
So mass market was better at 187 problems versus, on average, premium brands did have
30:02
203 problems per 100 vehicles.
30:06
So mass market was better still than premium brands overall.
30:10
Well, and that kind of moves us into where the problems were.
30:14
And and, you know, we're still seeing the same kind of problems that we've seen
30:17
over the last decade, I think, where infotainment systems and those kind of
30:22
things, but detail that for us.
30:24
It's kind of interesting where the problems lie these days.
30:27
So infotainment still does remain the most problematic area in the vehicle.
30:31
I mean, if you think about it is it's it really is not, you know, almost a
30:36
computer on wheels.
30:37
It's gone a long way for being.
30:39
I listened to AM FM radio, you know, years ago.
30:43
Now it's it's the central hub of everything that goes on the car.
30:47
So infotainment still does remote main the most problematic area, though
30:50
it does improve again this year.
30:52
So while it is problematic for customers, it is getting better, which is the
30:57
good news, you know, the manufacturer definitely listening, making
31:00
corrections to the vehicles in this area.
31:03
So moving it in the right direction.
31:05
One of the areas we were literally surprised that are starting to see a decline
31:08
that was an area typically in the industry we did not see problems with
31:12
before nets climate where you go, okay, it's supposed to blow hot and
31:17
How difficult can this be?
31:19
But what we're seeing now is, you know, a lot more manufacturers again are
31:24
starting to remove those knobs and hard buttons for the climate controls and
31:28
right, you know, talk moving into that infotainment screen.
31:31
And that's where we're seeing the problems.
31:33
Those customers are not happy with something that used to be a one
31:36
touch I could do while driving without looking now takes, you know, three,
31:40
four steps to get to that screen and the radio.
31:43
So, you know, they're saying this should not take as many steps.
31:46
It's way too difficult.
31:47
So definitely big problems there.
31:49
Another area we saw a big increase was kind of surprising was that just the
31:54
garage door opener.
31:55
I mean, everybody again was used to that universal garage door opener.
31:58
A hard button in the car.
31:59
He's reached up and pushed it when he got home.
32:02
But again, we see now more and more manufacturers putting that in the screen.
32:06
And if you think about when you use your garage door opener, you're
32:09
backing out of your garage.
32:11
Well, what happens?
32:12
You put your car in reverse and the camera comes up and you can't get
32:16
you can't even see the screen.
32:18
So, you know, this is where, again, like some of these things, we kind
32:22
of probably should look at these executions and go, is this really
32:26
what is best for the customer or go, let's just leave it a button.
32:29
It's really easy to use that way.
32:32
And I think we're seeing that.
32:33
I mean, in some of the cars I'm testing most recently, they've talked
32:36
about that and largely from what you're doing at JD Power, they've
32:41
learned that this doesn't work out all that well.
32:43
And we are seeing more buttons and knobs in some of the more
32:46
recent introductions.
32:47
And I think that's a good thing.
32:49
A driver distraction of everything being in the screen is getting
32:52
to be too much for customers.
32:53
Another one I found actually quite amusing is cup holders.
32:57
That seems problematic.
32:58
Again, that seems like a no brainer, right?
33:03
It was like it was getting better and better and better.
33:05
The industry had it really figured out.
33:08
But where the problem arose is it's not the manufacturers now.
33:11
It's actually the consumers.
33:14
You know, we're all trying to be more eco-friendly, which is great.
33:17
You know, less plastic bottles and stuff.
33:20
But what that means, we're all bringing these giant Stanley
33:22
cups and yetis into the car now.
33:24
And they're not designed to hold these massive bottles that
33:29
And imagine you put that in your center and it's blocking
33:31
controls and buttons.
33:33
And so, you know, this is the kind of one that the
33:37
consumer brought on themselves with what they're bringing
33:40
into the car anymore.
33:42
Let's talk about electrics.
33:44
And there's all kinds of electrics, of course, as plug-in
33:46
hybrids and, of course, battery, you know, pure battery
33:50
And it was kind of sold to us early on that battery
33:53
electrics would be less problematic than the typical
33:57
There's less to go wrong, basically mechanically in these vehicles.
34:02
But that hasn't turned out to be the case.
34:03
And explain that to us a little bit.
34:05
So battery electrics and plug-in electric hybrids are, you
34:09
know, more problematic than, again, than their gasoline
34:13
And a lot of it, again, there is just, it's a lot of
34:16
I mean, you get those cars, they come with the full suite
34:19
of driving assistance features and everything.
34:22
All wireless charging pads.
34:24
And so it's, you know, larger screens.
34:26
They were really the one to brought this larger screens
34:31
So, I mean, just a lot more to go wrong.
34:34
One of the things that was interesting this year is
34:37
So full electric vehicles actually performed better than
34:41
than the plug-in versions this year.
34:43
Again, largely due to Tesla's improvements.
34:46
But if you think about plug-in hybrids now, I mean, we're
34:49
talking about a lot more opportunity there for things to
34:52
go wrong because we have electric motors as well as
34:55
So we're getting transmission shifting issues as well as
34:59
charging issues and everything on those cars.
35:01
So, you know, not really surprised at this point
35:04
that they're becoming more problematic with just the
35:07
level of complexity in those with both electric and
35:11
gasoline motors in them.
35:13
Tell us about the brands that did particularly well,
35:16
So Lexus actually came back as the number one brand this
35:21
Lexus had a good improvement and moved all the way up
35:24
from eighth to number one in the rankings this year.
35:27
Nissan was actually the number one mass market brand
35:31
They've been steadily moving up in the rankings year
35:33
after year, you know, so they had a really good
35:37
really good incline this year going all the way up from
35:40
sixth to second in the industry.
35:42
And Hyundai remains, you know, third overall within
35:46
So, you know, some really solid performers in there.
35:50
There was some variation in a lot of brands too this
35:53
year because there was a lot of late launches going
35:55
on in the industry this year where brands just
35:58
took a lot longer to change over from the 24 to
36:03
So that also impacted a lot of brands as we just
36:06
saw that that late change over.
36:08
But some other brands, you know, Cadillac, you know,
36:11
did have a good improvement again this year.
36:13
You know, they've produced a lot of electric models.
36:17
You know, OPTIQ came out this year, did much
36:20
better than Lyric when it launched.
36:21
So, you know, definitely a good improvement for
36:23
their electrification there for the Cadillac
36:28
You know, one of the things we saw this year,
36:31
just a lot of the models that launched this
36:32
year, we had actually one of the worst year for
36:35
launches overall in the industry out of all
36:38
the launches that occurred actually only two of
36:40
them did better than their second average.
36:43
So launches were really poor and that really
36:46
impacted, you know, a lot of brands out there
36:48
that were very launch heavy this year.
36:50
Yeah. Well, one of the things that surprised
36:52
me on the list was where Toyota Place, which
36:54
was under industry average, I mean, we
36:57
mostly consider Toyota, you know, top drawer
37:00
in terms of quality.
37:01
And that was part of, like I mentioned, those
37:03
launches this year.
37:04
Toyota had, I mean, obviously a large number of
37:07
launches this year.
37:07
I mean, Camry came out this year.
37:09
Obviously a very big volume vehicle for them.
37:12
So when you launch your volume vehicle, I
37:14
mean, launches always tend to be a little more
37:16
problematic than carryover models.
37:18
So, you know, that that was an
37:21
impact on Toyota there with Camry launching
37:24
and its high volume this year kind of made
37:27
them slip a little bit in the rankings.
37:30
Let's talk about how the consumer can look
37:32
at IQS and the results are readily
37:35
available at JDpower.com and use that
37:39
as somewhat of a guide to what they might
37:42
consider. No, for sure.
37:44
And I mean, that's how when they go, the
37:45
consumers go to our site, you know, they're
37:47
able to see, you know, specifically what
37:49
they're looking for.
37:49
So I'm looking for a premium SUV, small SUV
37:52
or a large sedan or something.
37:55
Or, you know, we break it out by each
37:56
of those segments so they can see, you
37:58
know, what models are really performing
38:00
well in that area they're looking for.
38:03
You know, so they understand, you know, where
38:05
the quality issues are, which is power
38:08
types of issues or as an interior types of
38:10
issues, so they can even go into greater
38:12
detail to see, you know, where those
38:13
issues really lie for those vehicles
38:16
that are researching, you know, I mean,
38:17
obviously, his cars are more expensive
38:19
than they've ever been when you look
38:20
at some of those prices anymore.
38:22
And they're keeping them for a lot
38:24
longer. I mean, obviously, quality is
38:26
something, you know, you really got
38:27
to be aware of anymore because you
38:29
need it to last with that investment
38:31
you're spending, so.
38:33
Well, and even the release itself calls
38:35
out the top, generally the top three
38:38
in each of the important segments out
38:40
there. So that's a good place
38:42
to start your shopping list, I would
38:44
think, is vehicles.
38:45
For sure. I mean, the press release
38:46
does give the top three, which in
38:49
each of the segments, so it's a great
38:50
place to kick off your, you know,
38:52
shopping and what you're looking for
38:54
before you head out to the dealership
38:55
to see, you know, where you actually
38:58
Right. Another critical study you do,
39:00
of course, is the vehicle dependability
39:02
study, which kind of goes hand in hand
39:04
with this. I kind of similar, but
39:06
after three years of ownership,
39:08
I think, talk about how those
39:11
Yeah. So while the IQS gives you
39:13
the impression of how we are at 90
39:15
days, the VDS gives you that look at
39:17
three years then. So after the
39:19
ownership period, you've had the
39:20
car launch, or, you know, what
39:23
type of problems can you expect to
39:24
arise, you know, as your
39:26
car gets older? Do you get more
39:27
squeaks and rattles? Is the car
39:29
settled in an age? Kind of like
39:31
people do. Is we all going to hold
39:33
or are we all going to squeak your
39:34
and rattle here? So, you know, how
39:38
So it gives you, you know, a better
39:40
idea of that degradation over time
39:42
to understand, you know, how's the
39:43
car going to hold up, you know,
39:44
going past that 90 days into that
39:47
Yeah. The other one we have is
39:49
coming out in a month is the
39:50
appeal study, which is the, you
39:52
know, what we're getting ready to
39:54
launch shortly. That actually is
39:55
the complement to IQS. So, you
39:57
know, customers do have these
39:58
problems, but their vehicle, it
40:00
also shows, you know, where they're
40:02
super happy about their car and,
40:04
you know, you see that with the
40:06
big screens. Customers have
40:07
problems with them, but they
40:09
definitely find them appealing.
40:11
Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of
40:13
people are excited about cars,
40:14
even somewhat problem-filled
40:17
cars, because the excitement
40:19
overwhelms the problems, I think.
40:21
Exactly. And that's where you
40:23
can see that good balance
40:24
between the two of, you know, they
40:26
might have problems, but there's
40:27
still that passion behind, you know,
40:29
some of these cars that, you know,
40:31
it's all about the ownership
40:32
experience and getting it in
40:34
Well, Frank, thanks so much for
40:35
being with us. We do appreciate
40:36
Frank Hanley of JD Power talking
40:39
about the initial quality study
40:41
for 2025. And we're going to have
40:43
you back again to talk about
40:45
appeal. And thanks for being
40:46
with us. We appreciate it.
40:47
Thanks, Jack. Appreciate it as
40:48
always. And stay with us,
40:49
everybody. We'll be right back
40:51
right here on America on the Road.
40:55
Welcome back to America on the
40:56
Road with our host, Matthew Lorenz,
40:58
Jackie Redback with you. It is
40:59
listener question time. We love
41:01
to get your questions and
41:02
comments. Send them along to
41:04
editoratdrivingtoday.com. That's
41:07
editoratdrivingtoday.com. And
41:09
here's a question I'm curious
41:11
as to Matt's answer to this
41:12
question is from Ginny in
41:14
Parks City, Utah. Ginny says
41:16
this, I think my car needs
41:17
some attention and I'm not
41:18
sure what to do about it.
41:20
Should I go to the dealership for
41:21
service or find a local
41:23
mechanic? Well, it depends on
41:25
how old the car is. You know,
41:27
if it's relatively new and
41:29
still may be under warranty for
41:31
something, definitely take it to
41:32
the dealership. And building
41:35
relationship with your dealer
41:37
will help from a service
41:39
point of view. So I still
41:40
take we have a car that's
41:42
probably about seven years
41:43
old. I still take it for
41:45
maintenance. Any older than
41:46
that, though, it's always
41:48
good to have a really good
41:49
mechanic that you can trust.
41:51
Yeah, I reiterate that. You
41:52
know, my brother operated his
41:54
own independent shop for the
41:56
better part of 40 years. So
41:58
getting a mechanic you can
41:59
trust is like finding gold, I
42:01
think is really terrific.
42:02
They're not available on
42:04
every corner. So ask around,
42:06
ask people that you know
42:08
about their experience with
42:09
various local mechanics, and
42:11
that'll help you find a
42:12
mechanic that you might be
42:13
able to trust. That wraps
42:15
up our show for this week.
42:16
Matt, remind us the name
42:17
of your book and how to get it.
42:19
I've written a book called
42:21
How to Buy an Affordable
42:23
Tightwad's Guide to E-V
42:24
Ownership. You can find it
42:26
on Amazon, Barnes & Noble,
42:29
tightwadgarage.com.
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You should look for it.
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It's a terrific book, kind
42:33
of a primer in how to
42:35
buy and own an affordable
42:38
EV, if it isn't an oxymoron.
42:40
My new crime novel,
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only one thing stays the
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same, is now available.
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It's both an e-book and
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paperback. It's at Amazon.
42:48
both Matt's book and my book
42:51
If you like our show,
42:53
Listen on this radio station
42:55
each week and let your friends
42:56
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42:58
And Matt, we have a podcast
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Most of all, thanks to you for
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43:33
We hope you join us again next
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time for another edition of
43:37
America on the Road.
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