CarCast+Edmunds - New RAM TRX, Lexus ES EV, Tesla Model Y L and more.

CarCast+Edmunds - New RAM TRX, Lexus ES EV, Tesla Model Y L and more. CarCast · Jul 13, 2026

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Car

Dodge Ram

The Dodge Ram is a pickup truck, meaning it’s built for hauling and tough driving. The podcast focuses on the Ram TRX, which is the more extreme, performance-oriented version. It’s brought up because it’s a big, high-impact truck model.

Car

Ram TRX

The Ram TRX is Ram’s super-powerful pickup truck. It’s known for having a big V8 engine and being able to handle rough driving, not just the street.

Term

EV

EV means electric vehicle. Instead of running on gasoline like most cars, it uses electricity from a battery to move the vehicle.

Car

Dodge Charger

The Dodge Charger is a famous performance car model from Dodge. The hosts are using it as an example of how the brand’s engine choices have been changing over time.

Term

V8

A V8 is a type of engine with eight cylinders. It’s often associated with strong power and sound, and the hosts are talking about brands bringing that back.

Term

crash testing

Crash testing is how car makers check safety by testing what happens in a crash. The hosts are saying adding a bigger engine can change the car’s structure, so safety testing becomes a bigger job.

Car

Challenger Hellcat

The Challenger is a muscle car, meaning it’s built for strong acceleration and performance. The episode mentions it with a Hellcat engine, which is the high-power version. It comes up because it represents the loud, fast side of muscle cars.

Term

Hellcat engine

The Hellcat engine is a super-powerful V8 used in certain Dodge performance cars and trucks. The hosts are saying the Rumblebee version uses that big, high-output engine.

Car

F-150 Raptor

The Ford F-150 is a popular large pickup truck. The podcast talks about performance versions of it, like an R-style model and the TRX idea. It’s mentioned because the F-150 is the starting point for those higher-performance trims.

Term

Hemi

“Hemi” is an engine design where the combustion chambers are shaped like a half-sphere. The hosts are saying the truck got the Hemi back, and that’s what people were hoping for because it changes how the truck performs.

Term

zero to 60

Zero to 60 is how fast a car or truck accelerates from a standstill to 60 mph. It’s a simple test number people use to compare acceleration between different versions of a vehicle.

Term

straight six

A straight six is an engine with six cylinders in a straight line. They’re comparing it to the V8 and saying the straight six can be good, but they want more noticeable performance differences.

Term

powertrain

Powertrain refers to the vehicle’s main mechanical components that generate and deliver power—typically the engine (or motors), transmission, and drive system. Here, they’re talking about how the truck’s powertrain choices create the “real differentiation” people want.

Place

Redbud Motocross Park

Redbud Motocross Park is a dirt track in Michigan where motocross bikes race. They used it to test the truck on rough ground, but the course was small so they couldn’t fully test its top speed.

Car

Renault Wind

The Renault Wind is a small car designed to feel fun and easy to drive. In the episode, it’s mentioned in a moment about letting a vehicle rev or accelerate. The point is about how it behaves when you push it.

Term

0.7 quicker

They’re talking about how much faster the truck is from a stop to 60 mph. A difference of less than a second can still be noticeable and usually means better launch and power delivery.

Car

Raptor R

The Raptor R is Ford’s most extreme off-road pickup. They’re using it as a comparison point to show how the Ram TRX stacks up in speed and power.

Term

throttle response

Throttle response is how fast the truck “feels” like it’s reacting when you hit the gas. If it’s improved, the power comes on a bit more quickly and predictably.

Term

stiffer springs

Springs are what support the truck’s weight. Stiffer springs help the truck stay higher and handle better when there’s more weight up front.

Term

dampers

Dampers are the shock absorbers. They control how the truck moves when it hits bumps so it doesn’t bounce uncontrollably.

Brand

Fox shocks

Fox Shocks is a company that makes off-road shock absorbers. The hosts mention it because it’s popular and widely recognized in off-road racing culture.

Brand

Bilstein

Bilstein makes shocks and suspension parts. The hosts are praising their off-road shock design for handling hard impacts and jumps.

Term

remote reservoirs

Remote reservoirs are extra shock-fluid containers placed away from the main shock. They help the shocks stay consistent when you’re hitting bumps hard over and over.

Term

secondary bump stop

A bump stop is like a safety stop for the suspension. A secondary bump stop means there’s an extra layer of protection when the suspension compresses fully, improving control during big hits.

Term

bump stops

A bump stop is a cushion/safety limit that prevents the suspension from bottoming out. It helps keep the truck from getting damaged when you hit big bumps or land hard.

Term

suspension travel

Suspension travel is how far the suspension can move up and down. If it has enough travel, the truck can soak up big bumps and landings instead of getting jolted or bottoming out.

Term

rebound

Rebound is how the suspension springs back after it gets pushed down. If it rebounds too quickly, the truck can bounce and lose grip right when you need it most.

Term

over kick the landing

Over-kicking the landing means the truck bounces too high after it lands. That bounce can mess up your next move, like turning or accelerating.

Car

Toyota A90

The Toyota Supra is a sports car designed to be fast and fun to drive. In the episode, it’s mentioned during a test where the driver had to slow down quickly right after a jump. That shows how the car handles demanding situations.

Term

hard on the brakes

“Hard on the brakes” describes aggressive braking force. In off-road jump-to-turn situations, hard braking can compress the suspension and shift weight, which affects steering grip and whether the truck can rotate into a tight corner.

Term

lose traction

Lose traction means the tires can’t grip the road/dirt anymore. When that happens, the truck can start sliding instead of staying pointed where you want.

Term

go sideways

“Go sideways” means the truck starts sliding sideways instead of staying pointed the right way. It usually happens when the tires lose grip during a fast transition like landing and turning.

Term

adjustable suspension

Adjustable suspension means the truck can change how stiff or soft it rides. That helps it handle rough off-road terrain without beating you up on the highway.

Term

launch control

Launch control is a feature that helps the vehicle accelerate as hard as possible from a stop. It coordinates things like power delivery and traction so the truck can get moving quickly without spinning the wheels as much.

Term

off-road mode

An off-road mode is a button or setting that changes how the truck behaves for dirt, rocks, and bumps. It usually makes traction and stability systems less restrictive so you can move more smoothly off-road.

Term

Baja mode

Baja mode is an off-road setting meant for desert racing conditions—loose ground and lots of bumps. It helps the truck apply power and traction in a way that’s easier to control when the surface isn’t grippy.

Term

on-road compliance

On-road compliance is how comfortable and smooth the truck feels over normal road imperfections. It’s basically how well the suspension absorbs bumps while still keeping the tires planted.

Term

sidewall

The sidewall is the part of the tire that flexes between the road and the wheel. A taller/more flexible sidewall can make the ride smoother because it absorbs more of the bumps.

Term

heated and ventilated front seats

Heated and ventilated seats do two things: they warm you up and they also blow air to cool you down. That makes the cabin more comfortable in both cold and hot weather.

Term

heated and ventilated seats

Heated and ventilated rear seats let back-seat passengers warm up or cool down too. It’s a nicer feature than just having it in the front seats.

Term

graphics package

A graphics package is an add-on that gives the vehicle extra visual styling—like stripes or decals. It’s basically the “look” option, and it can cost extra.

Term

gloss black panels

Gloss black paint is a shiny black finish. It reflects light, so it usually looks more dramatic than a flat or matte black.

Term

two-tone

“Two-tone” just means the truck has two different paint colors. Usually one color is on the roof and another is on the rest of the body.

Term

red racing stripe

A red racing stripe is a bold stripe on the vehicle, usually meant to look sporty. It’s often part of a styling package.

Term

beadlock wheels

Beadlock wheels are special rims that help keep the tire securely attached to the wheel. They’re commonly used for off-roading, where you may run lower tire pressure to get better grip.

Term

titanium inserts

Titanium inserts are small pieces made from titanium. Titanium is strong and resistant to corrosion, and it can also help keep things lighter.

Term

SRT badge

The SRT badge is a label that tells you a car was tuned or developed for performance. Here, they’re saying the company wants that badge to show up more often across different brands.

Car

Jeep Grand Cherokee

The Jeep Grand Cherokee is a popular SUV model. They’re talking about the possibility of an SRT-branded performance version of it.

Car

Ford F150

The Ford F-150 Lobo is a sportier version of the F-150 pickup. The discussion is basically saying it’s not as serious a performance truck as the Ram TRX.

Car

Ford Lobo

The Ford Lobo is a pickup truck model name. In the podcast, it’s mentioned in a way that suggests it’s not mainly focused on being a performance truck. It’s used to talk about what kinds of truck options are out there.

Term

Ford Performance Supercharger

A supercharger is a device that helps the engine breathe better by pushing extra air in. The “Ford Performance” version is an aftermarket/performance kit meant to make the truck faster than stock.

Term

leather interiors

Leather interior means the seats and some cabin surfaces are covered in leather instead of fabric. It’s a comfort-and-luxury option that can affect how “complete” a trim feels.

Term

upgraded sound system

An upgraded sound system is a better audio setup than the basic one. It usually means clearer sound and stronger speakers.

Term

quarter mile

The quarter mile is a standard straight-line race distance used to measure how fast a car or truck accelerates. Faster times generally mean stronger acceleration.

Term

0 to 60

“0 to 60” is how fast a car can go from standing still to 60 miles per hour. Lower numbers mean quicker acceleration.

Car

Lotus Excel

The Lotus Excel is a sports car built for speed and driving feel. The episode talks about a track where its performance on a straightaway doesn’t last past a certain distance. That’s why it’s mentioned—because it shows how the car performs in a measured test.

Term

brake kits

A big brake kit is an upgrade that helps the car stop better and handle repeated hard braking. It usually needs enough wheel clearance to fit the larger parts.

Term

six-piston

“Six piston” describes the brake caliper having six pistons. That can help the brakes clamp more evenly for stronger stopping, especially when you brake hard multiple times.

Place

Johnson Valley

Johnson Valley is a popular off-road spot where people test trucks on rough desert terrain. It’s a good place to see how well off-road trucks handle real obstacles, not just smooth roads.

Term

instrumented wise

“Instrumented” testing means measuring performance with tools (like data loggers and timing equipment) rather than relying only on seat-of-the-pants impressions. When they say the TRX will outperform “instrumented wise,” they’re implying the measured results—like acceleration, speed, or consistency—should be noticeably better.

Concept

competitive nature

They’re basically saying car companies compete by trying to beat each other. That competition can make newer cars better and more exciting for buyers.

Car

Chevrolet Camaro

The Chevrolet Camaro is a sporty, performance-focused car. The podcast talks about wanting a new Camaro because it would keep competition in the muscle-car category. It’s mentioned as a way to bring more variety and rivalry to the market.

Car

Chevrolet Corvette

The Chevrolet Corvette is a sports car built for high performance. The episode mentions that a lot of work and engineering has gone into its design over time. That’s why it’s discussed when people talk about how serious the brand is about performance.

Car

Mustang

The Ford Mustang is a long-running pony car that’s used as a benchmark for pricing and brand identity in the U.S. market. Here, it’s specifically referenced as the “price range gap” GM would try to fill with a new Camaro.

Term

modular platform

A modular platform means car makers design a shared “base” that many different models can use. It helps them build different body styles without starting from scratch every time.

Car

Ford Gt

The Ford GT is Ford’s high-end supercar. The discussion is about whether Ford should rely on a big “halo” car versus using Mustang racing and the Mustang platform to strengthen the brand.

Car

911 GT2

The Porsche 911 GT2 is a very track-oriented version of the 911. The host is using it as an example of how Porsche offers multiple performance variants that reinforce the brand.

Car

Lexus ES

The Lexus ES is a luxury sedan from Lexus. Here, they’re talking about the ES coming in different powertrain versions—hybrid and a fully electric version—so it’s not just the same car with a small tweak.

Term

EV version

An EV version is a fully electric car. Instead of using gas like a normal car, you charge its battery to drive.

Term

hybrid version

A hybrid uses two kinds of power—an electric motor and a gas engine. It can switch between them or use both, which usually helps with efficiency.

Car

Lexus LS

The Lexus LS is Lexus’s top, bigger luxury sedan. In this conversation, it’s brought up as the “real” Lexus choice compared with the ES.

Car

BMW 7 series

The BMW 7 Series is BMW’s top big luxury sedan. They mention it to show which kind of high-end buyers the Lexus ES is (or isn’t) competing with.

Car

Mercedes S class

The Mercedes S-Class is Mercedes’s top luxury sedan. They bring it up as an example of the big, premium competitor to the Lexus ES.

Term

all-wheel drive hybrid

An all-wheel-drive hybrid sends power to all four wheels. That can help the car grip better, especially on wet or slippery roads.

Term

single motor electric

A single-motor EV uses just one electric motor to move the car. It’s different from all-wheel-drive EVs that use two motors for extra traction.

Car

Toyota Grand Highlander

The Toyota Grand Highlander is a three-row SUV, and the hosts use it as a real-world size benchmark for the newer Lexus ES. They’re emphasizing that the ES’s length is now comparable to a large family SUV, which is unusual for a sedan.

Term

three row SUV

A three-row SUV is an SUV with seats in three rows, so it can carry more people. When you fold the seats down, it also creates a lot more room for luggage.

Term

cubic feet

Cubic feet is a way to measure volume—how much stuff a space can hold. Here, they’re using it to describe how much cargo room you get when the seats are folded.

Term

executive seating package

An executive seating package is a set of upgraded features for the seats. Here it means the rear seats get extra comfort stuff like heating, cooling, and massage, plus a fold-out footrest.

Term

heated ventilating

Heated seats warm you up, and ventilated seats blow air to cool you down. It’s a comfort feature you’ll usually find on nicer trims.

Term

massaging seats

Massaging rear seats are seats with built-in motors that create a massage effect for passengers. It’s usually included on higher-end comfort packages.

Term

zero to 75

Zero-to-75 measures how quickly a car accelerates from a stop to 75 mph. It’s a way to see how strong the car feels when you’re getting up to highway speeds.

Car

BMW i5

The BMW i5 is BMW’s electric sedan. Here they’re comparing the single-motor version’s acceleration and overall efficiency versus other EVs, to show how the setup affects real driving feel.

Term

single motor versions

A single-motor EV uses one electric drive unit to move the car, usually powering one axle. Compared with dual-motor setups, single-motor cars often trade some acceleration potential for efficiency and cost, which can show up in 0–60 and range/charging discussions.

Car

A6 Sportback Etron

The A6 e-tron is an electric Audi car. The podcast is talking about how fast it can accelerate from a stop, especially in the 0–60 mph range. It’s mentioned because those acceleration results are part of how EVs are compared.

Car

Audi Etron

This is Audi’s electric A6 Sportback. The hosts are using it as a comparison point to show that the single-motor version can be quicker than the Lexus ES EV in acceleration tests.

Car

Lexus ES EV

This is Lexus’s electric version of the ES. In this discussion, the hosts are basically saying it’s not as fast and doesn’t go as far as you’d expect, especially compared with other EVs they’re talking about.

Term

charging speeds

Charging speeds describe how quickly an EV can add energy during charging, typically influenced by battery size, battery temperature, and the car’s charging hardware/software. This segment suggests the Lexus ES EV also doesn’t lead on charging performance compared with competing EVs.

Term

dual motor version

Some EVs have two electric motors instead of one. That can make them faster, but it can also reduce range because the car is using more energy to move and accelerate.

Term

floaty

“Floaty” means the car feels like it’s kind of floating over bumps instead of staying planted. It’s usually a sign the suspension isn’t controlling the car’s motion very tightly.

Term

battery

In an EV, the battery is the big heavy pack that stores electricity. Because it’s heavy, it can change how the car rides and handles compared to a lighter hybrid.

Term

over sprung

“Over sprung” means the suspension springs feel too stiff. That can make the ride feel less smooth, particularly on rough pavement.

Term

TNGAF

TNGAF is a Toyota vehicle platform that multiple cars share. Because it wasn’t designed specifically for EV batteries, the EV version has to fit the battery into a layout that was originally meant for other powertrains.

Concept

dedicated EV platform

A dedicated EV platform is a car design built specifically for electric cars and their batteries. If the EV is based on a platform meant for other powertrains, it can be harder to fit the battery perfectly, which can affect how the car rides.

Car

Toyota Camry

The Toyota Camry is a regular, everyday car that’s built to be comfortable and practical. The episode mentions that similar design and parts can show up in other Toyota vehicles too. That’s why it’s brought up in a conversation about shared engineering.

Car

BZ

The Lexus BZ is mentioned as another EV with a similar battery-pack setup. The idea is that the car’s platform limits battery size, and battery development is expensive, so manufacturers reuse what they can.

Term

development cost

“Development costs” means the money and effort required to create new battery technology. Because it’s expensive, companies often reuse battery designs instead of starting from scratch every time.

Term

electric motor

Electric motors are the parts that use electricity to spin the wheels. Because they respond instantly, they make the car feel smooth when you start moving.

Term

system horsepower

System horsepower is the total power the car can make when all its power sources work together. It’s the combined number you see in specs for hybrids and EVs.

Term

front motor

A front motor is the electric motor that powers the front wheels. If it provides most of the power, the car’s driving feel is mostly determined by what the front wheels are doing.

Term

rear axle

The rear axle is what connects the drivetrain to the rear wheels. If the car has a rear motor, it can send power to the rear wheels through the rear axle.

Term

miles per gallon

MPG tells you how far the car can go on a gallon of gas. Even hybrids use some gas, so they can still be rated in MPG.

Term

range

Range is how far the car can go before you have to recharge or refuel. Using more electric power can reduce how far you can go on a given charge or fuel.

Term

luxury trim

“Luxury trim” means the more expensive version of the car with nicer features. Here, they’re saying the hybrid version doesn’t come in that top package, so you may not get the premium leather.

Concept

hybrid two

“Hybrid two” sounds like a specific version of the hybrid model. The important part here is that this version doesn’t come with the top “luxury trim,” so you lose some premium interior options.

Term

real leather

“Real leather” means the interior uses actual animal hide leather. The hosts are saying the hybrid version doesn’t get it unless you choose the luxury trim.

Term

synthetic

Here, “synthetic” means man-made materials instead of real ones like leather. The hosts are saying the hybrid version uses synthetic materials rather than real leather.

Term

rubberized material

“Rubberized material” means the surface is coated or textured to feel like rubber—usually grippier and softer. They’re saying the new ES steering wheel feels more like that than like traditional leather and wood.

Car

Forester Hybrid

They’re comparing the Lexus ES’s interior feel to a Subaru Forester Hybrid. The point is that the Lexus’s new materials feel more synthetic and rubbery, similar to what they’ve noticed in the Forester hybrid.

Term

black ash wood

“Black ash wood” is a type of dark wood trim used on the inside of the car. They’re pointing out that the older ES had this more traditional luxury look compared with the newer synthetic feel.

Term

touch points

“Touch points” means the parts of the car interior you interact with—like the buttons, controls, and the surfaces your hands touch. They’re saying BMW’s touch points felt less nice than you’d expect from a luxury brand.

Car

BMW X3

The BMW X3 is a luxury SUV. Here they’re talking about the interior—specifically how the places you touch and feel (materials and controls) didn’t match what you’d expect from BMW.

Car

BMW iX3

The BMW iX3 is the electric X3. In this segment, it’s mentioned to support their point that BMW seems to have improved the interior feel after earlier criticism.

Term

Neue classic cars

“Neue Klasse” is BMW’s name for a new wave of cars and design direction. The hosts are using it to say BMW is trying to make the interior feel more premium again.

Term

steering wheel

The steering wheel is the part you hold to steer the car. They’re saying the material can wear differently over time depending on what it’s made of and how you use it.

Car

BMW X5

The BMW X5 is BMW’s midsize luxury SUV, and it’s often used as a reference point for how BMW’s cabin materials and perceived “quality” evolve over model years. Here, they connect that to a broader point about how BMW interiors (from roughly 2020–2023) may not feel as “high touch” as earlier versions.

Car

Ferrari Luce

The Ferrari Luce is a Ferrari model that people are talking about. The podcast says there’s been controversy around it, meaning not everyone agrees or it sparked debate. It’s mentioned because it’s a notable new topic in the car world.

Term

5-speed manual transmission

A “pseudo manual transmission” is when a car tries to feel like a manual. It may let you “shift” like a manual, but the car is still using an automatic-style gearbox underneath.

Term

traditional automatic transmission

A “traditional manual transmission” is the classic kind where you use a clutch and a shifter to change gears. The point here is that Ferrari thinks their powerful engines don’t pair well with that traditional feel.

Term

simulating it completely through the speakers

This is when the car plays made-up engine sounds through the speakers. The hosts are saying that some versions sounded weird, but newer ones can feel more natural and fun.

Car

Hyundai Ioniq 5N

Term

simulating the shifts

Simulating the shifts means the car “acts” like it’s changing gears. It tries to copy the timing and feel of a manual shift even if the gearbox isn’t truly manual.

Term

full automatic mode

“Full automatic mode” means the car is doing the work for you. You don’t have to manually choose settings—so it handles things like how the car responds when you press the pedal.

Term

shift mode

“Shift mode” is an EV feature that tries to mimic the feeling of shifting gears. Instead of changing gears mechanically, the car changes how it delivers power so it feels like a shift.

Car

Lexus Rz

The Lexus RZ is an electric Lexus. The host is talking about its “shift mode,” which is supposed to make the car feel like it’s changing gears, but they say it doesn’t work well.

Term

start-stop feature

A start-stop feature turns the engine off when you’re stopped (like at a light) and turns it back on when you go. It’s mainly there to help reduce pollution and save fuel.

Term

gated manual shifter

A gated manual shifter is a gear lever that moves into fixed gear positions, like in many classic manual cars. It gives you a more “real” shifting feel because the shifter is guided into the right slots.

Term

drive-by-wire

Instead of a physical cable or rod directly moving the transmission, the car uses electronics. Your shifter movement becomes an electronic signal that tells the car what to do.

Term

DCT

This is a transmission with two clutches working in parallel. That lets it switch gears faster than a traditional automatic, because it can pre-stage the next gear.

Term

simulated manual EV

It’s when the car lets you choose gears like a manual, but it’s still an automatic system doing the work. You get the “manual” feel without actually controlling the clutches directly.

Term

overdrive gear

Overdrive gears are the ones meant for highway cruising. They help the engine spin slower so the car can be more efficient and relaxed at speed.

Concept

proper feel

“Proper feel” is about whether the car responds in a way that feels right to the driver. It’s not just about shifting—it’s about making the response match your expectations.

Term

manual cars

A manual car is one where you shift gears yourself using a clutch pedal. In stop-and-go traffic, you have to keep using the clutch a lot, which can be annoying.

Term

clutch

The clutch is a pedal that helps you change gears smoothly. Press it in, shift gears, then release it so power transfers again.

Term

manual mode

Manual mode lets you drive more directly by choosing the gears (or how the car shifts). It’s often used when you want more control, like on winding roads.

Term

gated sort of manual

A “gated” manual-style shifter refers to a shift mechanism with defined positions and a more mechanical feel, like a traditional gear lever. In modern cars, it can be used to mimic the sensation of a conventional manual even when the drivetrain is electronically controlled.

Term

programming

Here, “programming” means the car’s computer settings that control how the powertrain behaves. It’s what helps the car feel smooth when you’re trying to drive it like a manual.

Term

electric power steering

Electric power steering (EPS) uses an electric motor to help turn the wheels, instead of a hydraulic pump. Early EPS systems were sometimes criticized for not feeling as natural, but later generations improved steering “feel” and responsiveness.

Term

beta test

A beta test is like a trial run before something is fully finished. The idea is to collect feedback while it’s still being improved.

Term

Daytona

“Daytona” is being used as a style reference to the classic race-car look from the Daytona era. It’s more about the vibe than a specific car you can buy today.

Term

long nose front engine

This phrase means the engine is up front, and the car’s front end is stretched out in design. It’s a traditional layout that can affect how the car feels when you drive it.

Term

12-cylinder

A “12 cylinder” engine has twelve combustion chambers. People like them because they tend to run smoothly and sound special, and that’s why the host keeps bringing it up.

Car

Ferrari 599

Ferrari 599 is a V12 Ferrari with the engine up front, giving it that long-nose look. The host is saying this is the kind of Ferrari they prefer.

Car

Aston Vantage V8

Aston Martin Vantage V8 is the V8 version of Aston Martin’s Vantage. The host likes it, but they’re saying that if they’re buying an Aston Martin, they personally want the bigger 12-cylinder engine instead.

Term

heavier

Here “heavier” means the bigger engine option adds weight to the car. That extra weight can make the car feel different to drive compared with a lighter engine.

Term

more stuff to break

This is basically the idea that a bigger, more complex engine can have more parts that could fail. It’s a common reason people hesitate before buying a higher-end engine option.

Car

Db12 Volante

The DB12 Volante is Aston Martin’s open-top version of the DB12. The host is saying it’s the best Aston Martin you can buy at the moment.

Car

McLaren 720S

The McLaren 720S is a high-end supercar that’s designed to feel fast and sharp. In this discussion, it’s the car people tend to love after driving, and it’s being weighed against a Ferrari choice based on styling.

Car

Ferrari 812

The Ferrari 812 is a top-tier Ferrari that’s famous for a big V12 engine that revs high. Here, the point is that someone would pick it for how it looks, even if it’s not the fastest option in the comparison.

Car

Tesla Model S

The Tesla Model S is a fully electric car, meaning it runs on electricity instead of gas. In the podcast, it’s mentioned because the speaker is talking about Tesla’s lineup and what models are available or changing. It’s one of Tesla’s best-known electric sedans.

Car

Tesla Model X

The Tesla Model X is a fully electric SUV. In the podcast, it’s mentioned along with the Model S while talking about Tesla’s lineup. It’s one of Tesla’s main electric SUV options.

Car

Tesla Model Y

The Tesla Model Y is an electric SUV. Here they’re talking about a longer version that adds a third row, and whether that extra seating is worth it in real life.

Term

dog house (greenhouse)

The “greenhouse” is the part of the car that’s basically the windows and roof over the cabin. If they raise it, it can give taller passengers more headroom in the back seats.

Term

headroom

Headroom is how much space you have above your head. They’re saying the third row needs more headroom, so the roof area has to be shaped differently.

Term

leg room numbers

“Leg room numbers” are the measurements carmakers publish for how much space people have for their legs. The hosts think those numbers can be misleading for the third row once you’re actually sitting there.

Car

Ford Explorer

The Ford Explorer is a popular SUV model. They’re using it as a reference point to judge whether the third row in the longer Model Y will feel usable.

Car

Hyundai Palisade

The Hyundai Palisade is a three-row family SUV. They’re saying the third row in the longer Model Y might feel about like what you’d get in a Palisade.

Term

third row

The third row is the back seat area meant for extra passengers. It’s usually the tightest row, so people often judge how usable it is when they talk about leg room and head room.

Term

wheelbase

Wheelbase is the distance between the front and rear wheels. If that distance increases, it usually changes the car’s overall shape and can help with interior space—especially for passengers in the back.

Term

overhang

Overhang is the part of the car that sticks out past the wheels. If the wheelbase grows but the overhang doesn’t, the car’s shape and how the doors line up can feel more balanced.

Car

Honda Crv

The Honda CR-V is a popular family SUV. In this discussion, it’s mentioned because its rear doors open wide, which makes it easier to get a child seat in and out.

Car

Hyundai Ioniq 9

The Hyundai Ioniq 9 is an electric vehicle. The podcast mentions that a fully loaded version is around the high-$70k range and compares it to other EVs. It’s brought up because it’s part of a price-and-value comparison.

Car

R1S

The Rivian R1S is an electric SUV with three rows. In this segment, it’s mentioned because it costs more than some other large EVs they’re comparing it to.

Car

EV 9

The Kia EV9 is a three-row electric SUV. They mention it because it’s being compared on price to other big EVs, like the IONIQ 9.

Term

calligraphy

“Calligraphy” is Hyundai’s label for a nicer, more premium version of a vehicle. It usually means upgraded materials and styling compared with the base trims.

Term

hybrid all-wheel drive

“Hybrid all-wheel drive” means the car uses both a gas engine and an electric motor, and it can send power to all four wheels. That can help with grip and can also improve fuel economy.

Term

FSD package

The “FSD package” is Tesla’s software add-on that enables more advanced driving-assist features. It costs extra, and the discussion here is about how using the car’s tech doesn’t necessarily mean you can ignore the rules while driving.

Term

touchscreen

A touchscreen is the car’s main screen for things like maps and controls. In this segment, they’re saying you can use the car’s screen, but you can’t use your phone while driving.

Term

self-driving mode

“Self-driving mode” means the car is doing some of the driving for you. But in many cars, you still have to pay attention and be ready to take control.

Term

fine print

“Fine print” means the detailed legal wording. The host is saying the exact wording of the rule is what matters if the situation ends up in court.

Term

level three driving

“Level three” means the car can drive itself in certain situations and doesn’t always require you to constantly micromanage it. But if it asks you to take over, you have to respond.

Term

level two

“Level two” means the car can handle some driving tasks, like steering and keeping speed, but you still have to watch everything. You’re still responsible for taking over if the car gets confused.

Brand

Waymo mode

Waymo is the autonomous-driving company being used as a benchmark for higher automation. In this segment, “Waymo mode” is equated with level three, implying the car (not the driver) is expected to take more responsibility in that scenario.

Term

hurry mode

“Hurry mode” is a Tesla setting that changes how aggressively the system drives (for example, by targeting higher speeds). It’s relevant because it can lead to behavior that feels more assertive, including faster-than-expected speed changes.

Term

405

“405” is shorthand for California’s Interstate 405, a major Los Angeles-area freeway. Mentioning it matters because it’s a real-world traffic environment where driver-assistance behavior can be tested and evaluated.

Term

adaptive mode

“Adaptive mode” is a setting where the car tries to automatically adjust to what’s happening around it. Here, it’s being discussed in terms of how the car’s speed behavior can differ from a normal mode.

Term

level three system

“Level three” means the car can do a lot of the driving for you, like steering and speed, but it’s not fully hands-off forever. The driver still has to be ready to take control if the car asks.

LIVE

Hello, welcome to the Edmunds CarCast podcast.

I'm Matt, the moderator of De-Enter.

We're here with Brian Wong from Edmunds, filling in for our buddy Alistair, who's traveling

the world.

Yeah, yeah.

It's big shoes to fill, because I don't know if everyone knows this, because you always

see him sitting down.

He's actually like six, I guess two meters is how you put it.

He's like 6364

Yeah, he's a tall, lanky dude.

Yeah, so literal, large shoes to fill, and I will resist the urge to try to do this in

a British accent and use words like posh a lot, but we'll do our best.

Posh is definitely rubbish.

Posh, some of his favorites.

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We're going to get into a few things.

Let's see where we're going to start is with...

We're going to start with big, bad, bold Ram TRX.

We've been talking about this for some time on the podcast now just to get you up to speed.

I'm sure you guys have been doing this internally as well.

Big shift and an about face, if you will, with Ram and Dodge and Solantis in general.

Started with the Dodge Charger, went to EV, dropped to V8.

That irritated everyone, especially when you built this brand based off of muscle hood.

Brought back a high horsepower six cylinder cool engine, didn't fill the need everyone was looking to do.

So they committed to bringing back the V8s and it made the most sense to start with the trucks,

with the platform that was already kind of fitted and tested with V8s.

It's a little bit tougher to get the V8 in the charger.

They're doing it because it fits, but it's not a layup, right?

There's more safety issues, crash testing, like all kinds of stuff they have to do to get that V8 in that car.

So doing it with Ram trucks.

Now we talked about the street trucks.

Those things look incredible.

I can't wait to try out that Rumblebee with the Hellcat engine in it.

You know, I've got street trucks.

I've got a couple, so I'm a big fan of those, but they had to do a new TRX.

And instead of doing like an R version or something like the Raptor is, they just said,

let's just make one TRX, make it the biggest, baddest truck that's out there.

And you had an opportunity to go out there and throw it around in the dirt, get it on the street.

So let's talk about it.

Let's talk about the TRX.

What do you think of it?

Some of the changes they may have made.

How is it overall?

You know, like you said, it just makes the most sense to kind of start with it in the truck.

We had the, you know, I remember I was actually on the first drive when they said that they were dropping all the V8s.

And even though they're like introducing these new engines, like all the questions from the media were all about the V8.

So when they brought back the Hemi, we were pretty excited to get it to our test track and actually turned out to be about two seconds slower to 60.

Then the straight six trucks, which, you know, how important are zero to 60 times when we're talking trucks?

Maybe not the most important, but I think it was indicative of you actually weren't really getting a performance gain, you know, outside of the noise and all that.

So this one is the one that I think we were all kind of waiting for because this is the one that is actually going to give you, you know, that real differentiation from the straight sixes, which are frankly really good engines.

We really like how they tow. They tow even better than the V8.

But this thing, driving it, I sort of expected it to be more of the same as the old TRX.

And it kind of was that, but that's not a bad thing.

I think it's been shown that there's a real desire for this kind of powertrain in this kind of truck, especially.

So we were out in southern Michigan. We were at Redbud Motocross Park.

And we were there at the same time where they're having, I believe, what is the biggest motocross meet in the whole United States.

So it's kind of interesting to be out there with all these little motocross bikes zipping around, all the semis pulling in, doing the load out and stuff.

The course they had us on was pretty small.

So we didn't get a chance to really let the truck wind out, which is sort of the only thing that we didn't get to test.

So no sense really of the top speed.

All the side roads around there, like it has launch control.

But I mean, 3.5 to 60 and that kind of thing is not something that you really want to be testing out on a two lane country road in Michigan.

Right. Yeah.

So it's quick.

I mean, if it hits the number that they're quoting, which is three and a half seconds to 60, that'll make it 0.7 quicker than the old TRX that we tested.

And more importantly, that'll make it a half a second quicker than the Raptor R.

So 770 horsepower, 680 pounds for the torque, both of which beat the Ford by a pretty good margin.

They say that the throttle response has been improved and I think it has maybe slightly, but we're talking maybe like a 5 to 10 percent difference.

I mean, this wasn't a truck that really had trouble putting out power immediately anyway.

Underneath it, the suspension is basically identical to the RHO.

So same dampers, just kind of stiffer springs up front to deal with the extra weight from the engine, but otherwise underneath, it's pretty much an RHO.

And that's not a bad thing because that's a truck that we really like and we think it surprises a lot of people off road.

We were doing a video earlier, I think last year with Emmy and she put it up against the Raptor R and it really held its own, which we were surprised by.

Now, Emmy ultimately chose the Raptor R at the end of that video because she was like the noise, the feel, the sort of sound of it.

And so now you're getting all that great suspension stuff from the RHO, all that know how, just with power and more power.

The best thing to me about the Ram trucks, the off road ones, because they had us out there on the course jumping, there were a couple of jumps on there, which they have to do.

I've always loved how they landed.

I think I said in the video, you can jump any truck if you're determined enough.

More about how they land.

And I know that the Fox Shocks sort of have more of a place sort of in the racing and sort of like the sort of greater cultural mind share, I guess, about suspension stuff.

But this Bilstein suspension, it really, really impressed me.

It's got remote reservoirs.

It's also got a secondary bump stop within the damper itself.

Yeah. Okay.

So when you fully compress, you're not just hitting the bump stop on the regular suspension.

There's also an internal one.

So basically when it fully compresses and you're getting pretty good suspension travel, I believe it's 14 inches in the rear or 13 in the front or vice versa.

But I don't know if it really matters.

But when it fully compresses, which it will because it's, you know, big heavy truck, the rebound doesn't pop you back up.

So it's controllable.

Yeah.

But you don't feel like you're losing yourself.

Yeah, there was one jump there.

So there were two jumps there.

One was you have to hit it like at, you know, between 40 and 42 miles an hour, they're very precise.

Yeah.

And they're like, because if you don't, you're going to over kick the landing and it was kind of like a kicker jump.

So that's the one where you go a little bit higher.

They had another jump that was like, you know, just hit it full out.

So you can get it up to like maybe 70 on the dirt track that they had, not a ton of run up to it.

But the problem was at the end of that jump, you had to get immediately hard on the brakes to make like a left hander, like a 90 degree left hander.

Yeah.

So if the truck is still rebounding when it comes off the jump, there's no way you're going to make the turn.

This is going to pop you back up.

You're going to lose traction and it's going to go sideways on you.

So the fact that it was able to like land, compress fully, rebound in a way that was controlled and then you could actually turn it in for the turn and use the throttle to get the end to kick out.

Really impressive, like mechanical stuff from them.

Yeah, it's super smart.

One of the things that we've seen, like with the TRX and then the RHO and then this version of it and the generations of the Raptor is over time, they were able to continue to revise and add improvements to that.

And it's not just, you know, not just how it handles it off the road, but on the road as well.

You can make a vehicle that you can drive pretty much every day, but to be the most capable thing out there.

And I think these companies have learned, especially the ones that are tackling this off-road super truck, is how to make that thing handle itself off-road and still ride well and not be.

I mean, we've driven a bunch of sports cars.

I guess with the sports cars and the super cars, you expect it to be a little bit more like, oh, no, no, this is a super car.

So it's going to ride kind of terrible because it's made to go around the racetrack as fast as possible.

It's going to be a little bit.

And it's always been an issue with, like, how do you dial that in?

So we start to look more and more into adjustable suspension, right?

All the different modes and stuff that we have and then how far do those modes actually adjust?

So it's something in the TRX.

You'd expect it to have an off-road mode, a Baja mode, but also what you don't expect is to have launch control in an off-road truck.

Yeah.

Now, I think between that and the Raptor, like, they both are super comfortable on the road.

Just, I think, a lot of things that they do suspension-wise to make them good off-road translates to really good on-road compliance.

Like, stiff but not too stiff, you know, and the amount of travel that you get and the amount of sidewall on those tires.

Like, you drive down the road and, like, nothing matters.

So it's, like, sneaky, really good to drive on-road.

And also because the RAM, like, the cabin is fantastic.

Like, you're just getting a ton of features, like, massaging heated and ventilated front seats, heated and ventilated rear seats, real leather.

You know, the cabin is just absolutely fantastic.

Yeah.

It's great to drive every day if you can, one, find somewhere to park it.

And, two, you can afford all the gas.

Right.

Now, there aren't many options you can get.

This truck is $100,000.

It's already pretty well equipped, but what's the package that they have?

It has a...

Yeah.

There's, like, a robot's name.

Bloodshot Night Edition package, I believe.

Okay.

And I think if you scroll down a touch more, you'll see a picture there.

It's got all the graphics.

It's got the gloss black paint on top.

So they're all two-tone.

It has the red racing stripe.

And it's got those beadlock wheels with titanium inserts.

If you like it, buy it, but just know that it's $10,000.

It's $10,000.

It's $10,000, yeah.

Honestly, I would rather be a little bit more subdued.

I'm not really into the whole graphics package.

I do like the wheels.

It's probably much more cost-effective to just buy the wheel and tire package if that's what you were looking for specifically.

But, yeah, it definitely screams at you.

It definitely screams TRX.

Yes.

I mean, the normal ones, they're a bit tamer-styling-wise, but to your point, I kind of like them more.

Yeah.

And I mean, it's not like people aren't going to hear the truck.

Right.

It's going to give it away pretty rapidly.

And then they have this, like, kind of dark forest green color on it.

That's actually really, really nice.

So that was my favorite color.

I don't think we got a shot over here because we were in the red one all day.

And they're also leaning fully into the animal thing.

They put the little dinosaur on the badge.

I saw the little TRX back there now.

Before, there was like Easter eggs under the hood of the TRX eating the raptor.

And the other thing, too, that they were big on was the SRT badge.

So it seems that Stellantis is kind of turning SRT into its own thing a bit.

So you're going to see that badge pop up more, not just for Ram, but throughout the other brands.

It remains to be seen if they're going to do like more SRT, like just SRT branded vehicles, kind of like Toyota is doing with GR.

But they want to really highlight that, you know, the performance team does a lot of work on these vehicles.

So SRT, and then I think whenever we get sort of a Hellcat version of the Charger,

that's going to also have the SRT name attached to it, whatever ends up in the Jeep Grand Cherokee will have the SRT name.

Yeah.

The Rumblebee, there's the SRT version of that as well with this engine.

I didn't even think about that.

Is the street truck the same zero to 60?

You haven't really, have you guys tested that one yet?

No, no one's even driven them yet.

I think the drive is going to be sometime this fall.

If I had to wager, it would be around the LA Auto show.

Yeah.

Okay.

Makes sense.

But I think, I mean, the cool thing is, you know, I think all, you know, truck stuff is really competitive.

But if you look at sort of the whole portfolio of what Ram offers, they really offer a wider breadth and depth of performance trucks than anyone else.

I mean, Ford has the F-150 Lobo, but I mean, let's be real, that's not a performance truck.

Yeah, that kind of dropped the ball on that.

I think they were trying to, they were more focused on getting that into a certain price range, right?

They didn't want it to be the $100,000 truck, but they wanted the V8 in it.

So it can be that jumping off point.

You can take it to your dealer and go, okay, now I'm ready.

I've got my 12 grand or whatever.

Let's put the Ford Performance Supercharger on it.

But it definitely lacks some features that you'd want as options.

Like, do you want leather interior?

Do you want, you know, the upgraded sound system?

Do you want whatever?

Like, there were some things in there that it kind of lacked that.

It looks good, but unless the Ford Performance, you know, the Ford Racing catalog is going to offer, you know, like the body kit in the aftermarket of their catalog.

There's not a whole lot you can do there.

Now, the Rumblebee, the SRT, the 777 horsepower version of it.

You kind of expect that like it has to be just like slightly quicker than, you know, at least in the quarter mile or as it was 60 than the TRX.

Yeah. I mean, just based on tire alone, it's going to be, I think, a few tents, at least, maybe more.

I mean, one of the craziest things that I have ever seen in our test track, we had a tradesman in without the high output version of the straight six, just the regular one.

And so with a little bit finagling, you're able to get that thing down to like right around 52 to 60.

And then with the high output version, our truck that we have as part of like our one year road test fleet dips under five.

And so, yeah, these things are going to, they're going to fly.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think it's even if they, if the TRX is zero to 60 and 3.5, then the street truck, just for the sake of making a difference, got to be 3.4.

I don't know that we're going to feel the difference.

We're not really going to know the difference, but it needs to be that.

I might wager even quicker than that.

I think we might be able to get down to near three.

Yeah.

Just because it's going to sit so much lower, it's going to have a proper street tire on it.

And yeah.

That's, that's scoot, man.

That's fast for, for a big truck.

It's a lot of, it's a lot of weight moving at a lot of, a lot of speed.

And, you know, at our test track, the Excel straight kind of runs out after the quarter.

So you're hard on the brakes.

So a lot of performance cars, especially like the e-ray, for example, traps at nearly 135, 140.

And then you're hard on the brakes and there's actually a bump down there.

So whoever's testing it, they're going to also test out the brakes pretty hard too.

Yeah.

But on the street truck with 20 or 22 inch wheels, they can put probably massive 15,

even 16 inch, you know, six piston, you know, big brake kits.

You're limited on what you can do on the TRX because of the smaller wheel size.

You can still get something big in there, but it's going to be a different setup for sure.

It's got a top speed of 118 miles an hour though.

And I don't know if I'd want to be going 118 miles an hour in a TRX sitting way up there, you know,

but it does these things out and then we go and test and verify.

All right.

So your final thoughts on new TRX, is it enough of a change to justify the new purchase

and how does it come up against the Raptor R?

I don't, I would say that if you already have one, it's probably not worth popping off and buying another one.

Like, I don't think it's going to fundamentally change the experience.

I do think that if you are in the market for one, I mean, it undercuts the Raptor R on price by 11 grand right out of the box.

So, I mean, there's quote unquote value there.

It's certainly going to be quicker, I think.

And yeah, I mean, my, my whole thing is, let's wait till we get them out.

We need to rerun that test out in Johnson Valley with the TRX and the Raptor R again.

So hopefully we can get those two out there within the next few months.

Okay.

And yeah, but I'd wager that the TRX will outperform it instrumented wise by a fairly decent margin.

Yeah.

Okay.

And that makes sense.

It kind of should like it's the new, it's the new kid on the block.

So it needs to, it needs to one up the old one.

I mean, that's kind of what we love about, about these, these car companies, if you will, they, they can kind of go after each other and, and keep trying to one up each other.

And it creates this competitive nature that I think is fun, which is why, you know, as a, as a Mustang owner, I'd like to see a charger.

I'd like to see a new Camaro.

I'd like to see that competition and be able to put those cars up against each other.

And what you guys do at you drags and stuff, put those cars up against each other because they're absolutely fun to watch.

And I'm sure they're a blast to drive, but I like having that competition and those options out there.

Now, competition makes everyone better.

So we'll just see if, you know, Ford shows up to play and especially GM, you know, they don't really have anything in the, in their lineup that can match either of the other brands right now.

I don't know if that's something that they're going to be focused on, but I do wish that they would kind of show up to and be like, here's what we can do.

Well, you know, so much invested into Corvette and, and that CA platform for years now, turning that thing into, you know, as much of a standalone brand as possible and definitely gave us some incredible performance and paying for the buck.

But that got very expensive.

Now, I was expecting that to get expensive.

We all were.

But all that does for GM is create this opportunity to fill the gap, fill that Mustang price range gap, you know, and they can potentially do that with a new Camaro.

We'll just see what they can come up with, you know, and the numbers got to make sense.

Can they sell enough?

And, you know, they don't want a half asset.

You know, I don't want them to do it, right?

I don't want them to come out and go, you know, we just, you know, we, we took something.

Something from our lineup, some modular platform that was a four door and we turned it into a two door and we're calling it a Camaro.

And, and I was like, no, if you're going to go in on it, you know, Ford's investment with Mustang also translates heavily into racing.

They're doing all sorts of racing and, and really kind of leveraging that platform.

And that was a big thing that Ford saying we could do a halo car.

We could do another Ford GT or something, but that doesn't build the Mustang brand like with 911, right?

They've got 911 GT2, GT3, you know, RS, they got all these variants of it without having to have that halo supercar that doesn't really do much for the 911.

And that was kind of Ford strategy to go, what are all the things we can do with Mustang and continue to build that?

So I think if GM does it with Camaro, they need to look at the overall picture and go, are we just going to release the Camaro?

Or are we going to, to do variations of it?

Are we going to race it?

Are we going to commit to this?

Because now that's a big expense.

Yes.

You know, okay.

So let's, let's shift gears a little bit here and go in the opposite direction.

Lexus has been talking about this ES and it'll be a couple of variations, right?

We're going to get a hybrid version and get an EV version.

Lexus, a little slower and getting into the full EV platform.

They've been so behind the hybrid platform, which they do very well, probably better than anybody out there.

But I kind of see this ES, a lot of pressure on the ES.

ES, great car, but I love the LS.

Yes.

And, and without that sort of BMW 7 series Mercedes S class competitor out there.

Yeah.

The ES is the top of the food chain for Lexus.

So you drove the EV version, right?

I've, I've driven all of them.

Yeah.

I've driven the single motor electric and the all wheel drive hybrid.

So it was kind of, of an ES month for me.

Okay.

I think we did three separate videos on the ES and a bunch of stuff too.

So got to drive both the hybrid and the EV.

But the video that just came out was a fully tested on the, the EV version, the single motor.

Yeah.

And I mean, we directly asked Lexus because we had the same thought that you did, right?

There's no more LS.

The ES is so much bigger now.

Is it going to be kind of like a replacement for that?

And they said no.

But I don't know if I believe them because it's so much bigger.

So it's 6.4 inches, I believe, to be really exact longer than the old ES.

And my favorite sort of like factual nugget about this car is that it's actually a hair

longer than the Toyota Grand Highlander that we have in the one year road test fleet.

It's a big, big car now.

Yeah.

That's a three row SUV.

Yeah.

That's a big size SUV that's got a ton of cargo room.

I mean, you fold down all the seats in a Grand Highlander, you get almost 100 cubic feet

of cargo room.

So that's the sort of size of vehicle that we're dealing with.

So even if they say like this is not an LS replacement, you know, full stop, it's kind

of sized like one.

Yeah.

Okay.

And when you get into it, like the backseat, it feels like size wise, like an LS backseat.

Like it's, it's gigantic.

Like you can see in that video there, I'm kind of like stretched out.

And yeah, this one that we had in particular, so the single motor version, it came with

that executive seating package in the back too, which is very much like an LS feature.

So it's got like the fold on armrest with the whole console for you, heated ventilating,

massaging rear seats, fold out footrest, all sorts of features.

But the weird thing is they're only offering that executive seating package on the single

motor EV version of the ES.

So you're not able to get it on the hybrid and you're not even able to get it on the

dual motor version.

Okay.

Interesting.

It's just a bit weird, like the way that they're packaging it.

Now I assume that's because they don't think that a lot of people here are going to buy

it, but for like an executive style seating package, the price tag isn't crazy on it.

It's like three grand ish.

Yeah.

Okay.

Really enjoyed that part.

The thing that's not great about the ES, the single motor is the performance was pretty

disappointing.

So zero to 60 time, it didn't match their estimated time.

So it went all the way up to 7.6 seconds.

But the thing that concerned me more was that zero to 75 was closer to like 11 seconds.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So you get the 60, like, you know, not in a good time, but like a workable amount of

time, but it just has absolutely no guts when you get up to like highway speed.

Right.

Which is odd for a full EV because EV is just by nature.

They're all pretty quick.

I mean, not that zero to 60 and 7.6 is slow.

You're still going to feel it, but compared to what else is out there, it's significantly

loses out on performance.

Yeah.

I mean, you can see right here, so these are the single motor versions of the i5 and the

A6 Sportback e-tron, and they're both significantly quicker to 60, significant.

They both get the 75 quicker than the ES gets to 60.

Interesting, because you would think if Lexus' whole plan was, you know, it's going to be

a little bit less performance, it's going to be a single motor, but we're going to win

on range and they don't win on range either.

Or charging.

Yeah, or charging speeds.

Now, if I remember correctly in watching your video, it's fairly efficient because it doesn't

have a massive battery, but if they use some of that space of being a big car and put more

battery and was still that efficient, you know, it would have been nice to see, you know,

400 miles of range instead of, you know, barely 300, if that.

Yeah, and the dual motor version is going to be even less.

It's way down.

It's down about 30, 40 miles, if I believe.

So we'll have to get that one in and test it, of course.

But yeah, if you want, you know, one that's actually pretty good to drive from a power

perspective, you're going to give up even more range.

Okay, so that being said, how is this thing overall?

You drove them, you drove all the versions of it now.

Tell me how does it feel and then how does it compare to, say, the hybrid version?

Yeah, so the suspension is obviously very comfortable, but I think both of them actually

handled better than we thought they would.

So it's comfortable, but it's comfortable without being floaty, which is sort of the best part of it.

The ride quality is pretty much impeccable.

I actually think the ride is better on the hybrid, noticeably, than the EV.

Okay.

The EV feels a touch over sprung because they have to deal with the weight of the battery.

Yeah.

I think this is one of the consequences of this platform because it's not on a dedicated EV platform

and it's not on a new platform.

So it's on the TNGAF and that's the same one you're going to find under a Camry.

Everything from a Camry to like a Sienna to even the Grand High that we mentioned, all the same platform.

Okay.

With that platform, I think you do have limited space between the rails to fit a battery.

So that could be why, you know, the battery size is kind of what it is.

But it does match the pack that's in the RZ and then one that's in the new BZ as well.

So I think it's a function of size that you can fit in there, but also what they have available to them

because the development costs on new batteries are pretty high.

Yeah.

They're going to reuse what they can.

If I'm picking between the two, I would take the hybrid.

Okay.

Pretty much in all circumstances, unless I really wanted the EV.

And there's a really key reason for that.

The hybrid, it really beefed up the amount of power that you're getting out of the electric motors.

So 244 total system horsepower out of the hybrid.

And over 200 of that is coming from the front motor itself.

Okay.

If you get the all-wheel drive version, it's going to add like a 50 horsepower motor to the rear axle

that only kicks in like when you lose traction, but they still cap the total output.

But that's only like 20 off of the total output of the EV in single motor.

So you're basically getting in the hybrid just as much sort of electric horsepower as you're getting in the EV.

So when you drive the hybrid around from like zero to 30, zero to 40, it pretty much just feels like an EV.

Yeah.

Like it's super smooth.

The suspension is better.

It matches.

It's a bit more compliant.

You don't get sort of that busyness like on highway stuff.

And you're still getting 44 or 46 MPG out of it and it's quicker.

The only thing is the hybrid is actually a touch more expensive to start.

And Lexus did that on purpose because they're trying to get more people to get into the EV because they're trying to, you know, catch up.

Because frankly, they're a little bit behind in terms of their offerings, but also just people thinking about Lexus as a company that makes electric vehicles.

I think the dual motor version will be a lot more livable.

It's going to actually feel more like an EV.

It's going to give you sort of the power and performance that you would want.

But again, the trade off is going to be range.

And so the hybrid, I mean, at 44 to 46 combined, you're looking at almost 600 miles between Phillips, which is awesome.

Yeah.

So, I mean, the only downside for the hybrid two is they don't offer it in luxury trim.

So luxury trim is the only one that's going to offer like real leather.

So the only thing in the hybrids available is synthetic.

We actually did a comparison of the new ES versus the old ES.

So we got a 2025 in, I believe.

And the steering wheel is a big difference between the two.

The new one has sort of this like very synthetic feeling kind of rubberized material.

It reminded me a lot of what's in our Forester hybrid, which is bad if you're buying a Lexus.

And then the old one, you get into it, it's got like that leather and like the black ash wood on the steering wheel.

And it feels kind of like old school luxury, like in a very cool way.

And the new one, like it's nice on the inside, but it definitely doesn't engender the same sort of like, you know, response from the cabin itself.

Yeah, kind of an interesting move, an odd move for Lexus, right?

Because Lexus, I always enjoyed the Lexus interiors.

Again, going back to the LS, I think it's gorgeous.

Also, the LS is a better looking car.

This ES is interesting, but it's not, I'm not looking at it and going, wow, look at that.

No, it's not good looking.

It's not.

So interesting to see if they do replace the LS with something, but you know, like where would it be a new platform?

Is it built on something else?

Is it going to be hybrid or they have a V8 version or they have an EV version?

So it's interesting to see what they do with that.

So also looking at, we talked about the performance comparisons of the ES versus the BMW and the Audi, but what's your overall pick between those three?

It honestly might be the ES because you can get one, one of those fully loaded for right around 60.

So I think the one that we add in was 63 maybe.

If you start pushing the options on the I5 or on the A6 e-tron Sportback, which is A6 Sportback e-tron.

Yeah.

Doesn't really matter.

They get a lot more expensive.

So that's kind of always been the ES's thing, right?

Is that you could get roughly the same size that you're getting out of the Germans, not necessarily the same performance, but something really efficient for like 20 grand less.

Yeah.

So that remains true.

Like the value proposition for the ES, especially now that it's grown even more and you've got that gigantic backseat, like as a family vehicle, it makes a lot of sense.

You know, but interesting because you guys, when you tested this and you talk about it, the conversation is with BMW and Audi.

It's not with like Hyundai and it's not with Acura and it's, you know, it's because Lexus has always tried to play in that higher luxury realm.

But with some of the things that you're talking about, you know, like the less expensive feeling steering wheel, you know, feels like they're maybe getting away from that.

You know, like if they want to be in a conversation with BMW and Audi and maybe even Mercedes, you need to look at what's going on on the interior.

Certainly.

I think for a few years, this was also something about BMWs, like their touch points kind of went down.

Like in terms of like all the things that you're going to sort of touch and feel on an interior.

I'm thinking of our X3 in particular as being a cabin that we were really disappointed in from BMW.

Not necessarily because it's a terrible cabin, but because of what you sort of expect.

Yeah.

But it looks like those Neue classic cars, the iX3, the new X5 that's coming out, they seem to have sort of gone in the opposite direction and been like, OK, we went probably too far in sort of cheapening out the interior.

Yeah.

So now we're going to swing back the other way hard.

And so I think, you know, if you remember that these car companies, they don't necessarily have a window into what everyone else is doing around them.

Yeah.

So it's entirely possible that Lexus kind of looked at BMWs from that 2020 to 2023 range and were like, oh, these cabins are going down.

Right.

We need to necessarily, you know, and I think, you know, the material on the steering wheel, it's going to age really well.

It's definitely meant to be more durable, I think, than real leather, because that starts to wear out, especially if you drive with your hand on one spot on the wheel a lot.

That starts to wear out after like a few years.

But yeah, it just doesn't.

Funny way, Alistair and I talked about that a week or so ago when we were talking about the BMW X5.

We were saying that, you know, previously, recently, the BMW interiors didn't feel as high touch, as nice as they did before.

And man, somebody on YouTube was so mad at us for saying that.

It's like a BMW fan was so angry.

I was like, I'm sorry, buddy.

It's like, it is, it is what it is.

Yeah.

You know, I don't know what to tell you.

I get your BMW fan and I appreciate that.

I love BMWs, but we're just calling it the way we see it.

By the way, this is a show about opinion as well.

So feel free to express your opinion on the YouTube comments, but they were harsh.

Yeah.

I mean, so verdict on the ES, you like the ES.

I watched the video and there was definitely some things in there.

You were saying that you were surprised on the range and the performance and some of the handling characteristics.

But now that you've sort of ruminated on it for a while, do you like the car?

Yeah, I think you like the hybrid more than the EV, but you like it.

Definitely like the hybrid more than the EV.

I mean, you know, there's if we're talking like day to day transportation, get into a car, drive it, not have to worry about anything at all.

It's fantastic at that.

It's super quiet.

It's going to be comfortable.

If you have a family, the car seats are going to fit in super easily.

The doors are gigantic.

They swing out wide.

Yeah.

Climb in.

It's a great car to drive, be driven in maybe more than to drive, but that's sort of its mission.

And I think it really nails that.

But yeah, I think the hybrid over the EV for me for sure.

Okay.

All right, we're going to take a quick break.

We will be right back.

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All right, we're back with Brian Wong from Edmunds.

So obviously anybody who's following the car world has heard about the Ferrari Luce.

Ferrari definitely got a lot of controversy with that.

I think Ferrari is starting to speak out about it going, we weren't quite expecting that type of reaction.

But they're getting behind the old mantra of any press is good press for them.

So they're kind of at it again with a manual transmission, the pseudo manual transmission.

They took the 12 cylinder and basically to summarize it is Ferrari is saying the engines are too powerful for a traditional manual transmission and the cars to get them to perform as well as they should.

We need to take sort of the manual transmission out of the equation, but enthusiasts have spoken up for so long.

Some car companies like Porsche do reward their customers with a manual transmission option, even if it's not the fastest thing that's out there.

So Ferrari said, can we bring back the feel of manual transmission?

And my initial thought was, I kind of like this idea.

Now, years ago, I would have said, this is kind of weird.

How are they doing it?

Is it fake?

But yeah, because we got things like, you know, cars are quiet, but you want to be able to hear them.

So now we're pumping in sound from the engine into the cab or we're simulating it completely through the speakers or whatever.

And then we kind of got over that.

Like we don't even really talk about it anymore.

Right.

It's like, oh, this thing sounds amazing.

And then we got into things like an example, Ioniq 5N.

And we're going, oh, well, it's got fake sounds and whatever.

And a few cars have done that in the past.

We never really liked the propulsion sound and whatever.

And it sounds so weird and it's techy.

But the Ioniq 5N said, well, what if they gave this like a rally four cylinder engine sound and simulated the shifts and pull power out?

And they did it and well.

So now we're kind of back to going, hmm, the simulated stuff isn't work, isn't so bad because if you do it well, you do get a fun driving experience.

And the Ioniq 5N, by the way, is super fun to drive.

You know, it's expensive for what it is.

But if you needed a tool around in a car every day and have some fun with it, like you could sit in traffic, put it all with normal modes, full automatic and it's fine.

And then you want to get up early on a Saturday or Sunday morning and hit the canyons or go to your cars and coffee.

It's a little rally car all of a sudden, right?

It's fun.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you use the word well executed.

Yeah.

The Ioniq 5N is an example of like, you know, something artificial but done to actually enhance the driving experience.

So like, it's certainly slower when it's in it's sort of like shifting mode because it is actually pulling power to give you the feel of a gear changing.

Yeah.

But they executed it so well that it becomes additive.

And there are other EVs who have tried to do that.

And, you know, I'm thinking of the Lexus RZ in particular that has like a shift mode and it's terrible.

Yeah.

Like it's the worst thing.

But I think that when you're able to sort of execute on these ideas at a certain level, then they become additive and then they give you like an optionality that wasn't really possible for and that's kind of cool.

So I think for Ferrari, you know.

So for Ferrari, let's talk about this for a second.

Ferrari is combining some technology.

So when you get in the car and you fire it up, it is by default in the full automatic mode.

And just like most of the cars that have that start-stop feature, it's automatically turned on.

All for the sake of emissions and fuel economy.

But Ferrari is saying, but what if we gave you a gated manual shifter?

Yeah.

And they're doing this through a number of different technologies where the shifter itself is all sort of sort of drive by wire manual by wire.

It's all electronic, but then it essentially controls the dual clutch transmission in the back.

Now, what's kind of interesting is the 12 cylinder is an eight speed dual clutch transmission.

But when you put it in the simulated manual mode, you only need to use the six speeds because nobody wants to row eight gears.

And the other two are basically overdrive gears anyway.

So if you're putting it in manual mode, it's not to sit on the freeway and do 85 miles an hour.

It's to have some fun with it and hit the canyons or a road course or something like that.

So this is kind of interesting.

I'm not hating on this as much as other people I think are.

And I think it's kind of divided on this.

The luce, not a lot of love for that thing, but the simulated manual, I think it's kind of divided.

People are going, it's not real.

You're going to lose it.

I go, but I don't know if it's executed properly.

If this really feels like it's doing what your mind thinks it's doing, then I think this could be kind of interesting.

It's wildly expensive.

This option.

No, to your point, I think it's kind of wait and see, right?

It's like the idea is cool.

The technology that they're developing to actually execute this is also, it's pretty cool and it's hard.

It's a really hard thing that they're setting out to do to give it the proper feel.

And I think all the conjecture won't matter until you actually get to drive one and sort of see if they've actually pulled it off.

I don't know if I had to guess today.

I don't know how I would guess that it sort of pans out.

But again, I went to the optionality, right?

We've all been driving manual cars in LA traffic.

It's great to own a manual car until you're stuck on the 405 for 40 minutes, working the clutch in and out.

And sometimes you're like, I wish I had an automatic.

So if they can do this and sort of meld the two worlds together in a way that's going to actually give you the best of both, that's pretty awesome.

You know, it's interesting because this is the option that you, I think you opt for.

I mean, there's reasons of exclusivity and it's a Ferrari and doesn't go up in value and all that other stuff.

But if you want the fastest Ferrari out there, you don't need this option.

But if you want the most interesting or fun version, maybe you do want this option, but you are getting the best of both worlds.

The non manual version isn't necessarily a faster car.

It's in automatic mode, it's the faster car.

It's still zero to 60 in like two point something seconds, 2.9 or whatever it is does over 200 miles an hour.

But it does that in the automatic mode.

So if you want to, you know, hit the canyons and go for a fun cruise, you can do that in manual mode.

But if you were, you know, taking this thing out to a track day, you don't, you don't even need the manual mode.

You're going to go faster in the automatic mode.

Yeah, yeah.

I think, you know, at first I'm glad that they brought the gated sort of manual thing back with it.

That makes it like, I think visually that, you know, really speaks to anyone who's had a Ferrari poster on the wall.

Like the look of that gearbox is like perfect.

Like don't change that at all.

And again, it's just, you know, how is the clutch going to feel?

Are they going to be able to make it, you know, feel like an actual clutch?

Because you're just dealing with all these sort of electric motors underneath you.

And, you know, the programming to get all that to feel right is, is hard.

That's where they charge hundreds of thousands of dollars extra for it.

I mean, basically, if you want the manual transmission in the 12 cylinder,

you're adding on the price of like a ZR1X.

I don't know.

For our, not that I know many Ferrari owners, but I don't know if they necessarily think about it that way.

Because then they would be like, well, I could also add a wing to my house.

Yeah.

Right.

I wonder if it's going to be one of those things though.

Like, remember the first generations of electric power steering and how it took maybe two generations

for most companies to sort of really figure it out to where now they're pretty good.

You're getting enough feel out of a lot of the cars and it's starting to come back.

If this is their sort of first crack at it, does it take one or two or three bites of the apple to really nail it?

Right.

That's, that's a good point.

And they're not, they're not making enough of these to probably get a really sufficient kind of beta test, if you will.

1500, I think, right?

Yeah.

1499, maybe one of those.

Yeah.

The 12 cylinder, also interesting car.

When this came out, I was like, oh, I like what they're doing.

It's a throwback to the Daytona.

That's kind of interesting, but I'm not sure if I love the design.

And in the Ferrari world, I am way more of a fan of the long nose front engine, 12 cylinder, you know, nothing wrong with, you know, a 360 and a 488 and all that.

Those are great.

I've driven some.

They're fantastic.

But for my money, 599, 812, you know, those to me is kind of what I always thought.

But I feel the same way about Aston Martin as well.

Yeah.

You know, I love the Vantage V8 school.

But, you know, if I was spending money on an Aston Martin, I was like, it's got to be a 12 cylinder.

For me, it's got to be a 12 cylinder.

And they go, well, it's heavier and it's more stuff to break.

I go, I know.

But if I'm buying an Aston Martin, you know, then I want the 12 cylinder, you know.

So with this car as well, now in this darker kind of red that we're looking at that that you guys have here, it's sharp.

It's nice.

I kind of like it.

I know we're not really showing the front, the nose that much, but it's kind of growing on me.

And I haven't driven one.

I really, I'm with you.

I like the long hood on a Ferrari.

I like the long hood and kind of everything.

Yeah, right?

Like I'm with you, right?

Like the best, the best Aston Martin to buy probably right now is a DB12 Volante.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's a car to be, to drive and to be seen in.

And so the way that that Ferrari is to, but yeah, I mean, I hope they get it done.

Like I hope it's awesome.

Yeah.

Because that might inspire another company to be like, maybe we should try that.

And so.

I, you know, one of my favorite cars to drive is the McLaren 720s.

And I don't think anybody who's ever driven that car says, eh, I think like everybody loves that car.

If you drive that car.

But if you said, hey, for the same amount of money, you're getting the 720s or you're getting an 812.

I'd be like, okay, I'm just going to take the 812 because I just love the look of that car.

Yeah.

I just love the look of that car.

I don't care if it's slower.

It doesn't perform as much.

It's like, it's just a, it's just the better looking car in my opinion.

I don't, I don't find McLaren's to be particularly attractive.

I think that they're, they're, they're designed for a purpose.

They're like purpose built.

Yeah.

And they're not sort of beautiful in the same way as the other cars that we're talking about.

So I'm totally with you.

Like if you're not trying to get to the edge of performance, if you're not going to take it to a track and do things like that.

Yeah.

Give me, give me one that's, you know, might not look quite as radical, but like, I think there's like a classiness to that Ferrari that really.

Yeah.

Same thing with the Aston.

So, yeah.

So the verdict is, is not in yet on this manual transmission thing.

I, I'm going to assume that they're going to, it's going to perform well and it's going to have a good feel for it.

And it's going to be collectible.

And hopefully this can commit into other vehicles.

The other interesting thing too that I noted when I was going over it was a, you can actually stall it.

Yeah.

You can stall it.

And I was like, huh, like, oh, they're not going to build that in.

Like, you know, you would think that, you know, it's just going to stall.

They're going to kick you back in an automatic mode or something like that.

But no, they'll let you actually stall the engine out with that thing.

So.

Yeah.

So you can embarrass yourself.

You can embarrass yourself, but it means that they're also committed to making it feel a certain way to the point that I'll let you kill the engine.

I think that was a good.

I think so too.

A good column.

Okay.

So, and then just wrapping up before we head out, Tesla made an announcement, Tesla Model YL, right?

The Model Y is such a big seller for them.

I, you know, we're, we lost what the Model X and we lost the Model S.

Yes.

And three rows are, are so popular now.

So taking the Model Y and doing a bigger, longer version.

Have you looked into this yet?

Is there anything else different other than just the third row?

So there's, there's the third row that's currently available in the Model Y that no one should buy.

That's a $2,500 option, I believe.

And it's no one's fitting back there.

No one with legs.

So take that off the table.

So there isn't really, you know, a three row Model Y until this one.

Now I have a bit of like PTSD from car names that have added just a letter L on the back of it.

Like I'm thinking of like grand Cherokee L.

There was like the RXL and those were some really awful third rows.

But this one has grown enough seemingly that it might have potential.

So I think it's about seven inches longer than your standard Model Y, but more importantly,

if you can kind of see in that photo there, the, the greenhouse has raised too.

So they actually added height to it because with the shape of it,

you have to do that in order to actually fit people back there or they'll have no headroom.

Only available in six passenger configurations.

So no bench seat available in the second row is going to be cash and shares only.

The thing about third row leg room numbers is that I don't believe them at all.

Yeah.

So I think we mentioned that it's roughly the same as a Ford Explorer and a Hyundai Palisade.

And if you've been in the third rows of both of those vehicles, you will know that even though on the spec sheet,

they're not terribly far off experientially, the Palisade is quite good and the Explorer is quite not.

Right.

The floor on the Explorer is crazy high.

So your knees feel like they're like tucked up into your chest and there's not good sight lines or not good placement of air vents, all sorts of stuff.

So I think for the Model YL, the growing of it to that extent is going to help a lot to give it a potentially pretty good third row.

But 31 inches of leg room can mean very different things.

Manufacturers kind of bend that stuff all the time.

And I would say that Tesla has maybe a history of bending numbers and things.

So it's one of those things where we'll have to hop back there and check it out.

You know, unfortunately, like the Ferrari manual, but yeah.

Which interesting.

So the vehicle is about seven inches longer, but the wheelbase is six inches longer.

So they didn't just hang more vehicle out the back.

Yeah, it's all right in the middle.

Yeah.

So to me, that also kind of changes the proportions because the Model Y looked a little short and stubby.

And now when you kind of, even though it's a little bit taller, when you stretch it out seven inches,

but really when you stretch that wheelbase out more, it doesn't have more overhang in the rear.

And it's really kind of in the middle.

So once you get into it, and I'm sure you're going to get into it before I will,

I would imagine probably not much different on the front getting in,

but that rear door has got to be the length has to be in that door.

I'm looking at the photo though, and it doesn't quite look like it.

You know, it's kind of tough.

It definitely looks like Model X-ish in profile, which is kind of funny.

But yeah, I mean, one of the things that's very underrated when you're sort of evaluating these 3-row SUVs is the length of the rear doors to your point,

and also how wide they open.

So on certain vehicles, like I'm thinking of like the Honda CR-V in particular, even though that's not a 3-row,

those rear doors open to basically 90 degrees.

So if you're putting in a car seat or anything like that, it just makes everything so much easier.

So one of the things from the photos that we can't really tell is sort of how low the floor is in that third row,

but if they're able to keep a completely flat floor, that's a pretty good sign for having enough room to really be good for families.

Right. And then we haven't really seen how much space is behind the third row.

Like if you open the hatch, can you put a couple, are you just putting some groceries there?

Can you put bags there?

Or is that seat right up against the hatch?

And to put anything in the back other than like, you know, a gym bag or a briefcase or a backpack, do you have to fold the seats down?

Yeah, notably missing a cargo room number.

Yeah.

All the information that we got.

Yeah.

Now price-wise, this is a significant jump in price.

Yes.

But I think if you look around at sort of the market for, you know, three-row EV SUVs, they're going to kind of undercut everyone by a pretty decent margin.

Like if you're looking at like an IONIQ 9 that's fully loaded, it's pushing 77, I think, EV 9 up around the same area, R1S way above those.

So, I mean, 63, you're kind of, it's like ID buzz-ish territory if slash one comes back, but we'll see.

And they said it was coming back, but after that recent announcement, I don't know what's coming back, what's staying, what's going.

Right.

It's, I mean, when you look at some of the other things, maybe non-EV, the Hyundai Palisade is kind of really one of the nicest things out there.

Bank for the buck for a really nice three-row SUV.

That looks good.

You get that nice calligraphy version.

The interior is gorgeous.

I know we get so many press cars and so many pictures and they're all white on the interior, but oh, there's such a pain in the butt.

Trying to live with any sort of white interior.

It's especially if you, you know, in my head, I'm like, I don't want to wear dark-colored jeans.

It's going to wear off and my dogs are going to get a car, get in there and they're going to sit on the center console.

It's just paw prints everywhere.

And, and yeah, I, I, I clean it all the time, but there's still just something about the white interior.

The interior on the Palisade is the way to go.

But I think to your point as well, like a fully loaded calligraphy Palisade hybrid all-wheel drive.

It's going to cost you right about what that Tesla starts at.

And if you want to add the FSD package, we're talking more added cost.

Yeah, I was just talking to somebody recently and they were saying that they're considering that.

They like that it's a three-row now and the FSD package and what was interesting.

So talk to somebody the other day that said, I got pulled over in California.

You can't use your phone.

You can't look down at your phone.

You can't use your phone.

You can use a giant iPad on this, on the, you know, touchscreen, right?

But you can't use your phone.

You will get a ticket for that now.

So this was the argument is got pulled over.

The cop said, you're on your phone while you were driving.

And he said, I wasn't driving.

And he said, what are you talking about?

You're sitting in the front seat.

He's like, I was in self-driving mode.

So I was using my phone, but I wasn't driving.

And the cop was like, yeah, I don't care.

Here's your ticket.

So now without looking at the fine print on that rule in California is the rule.

You can't use your phone while driving or you can't use your phone while in

the driver's seat because this is going to come up in court at some point.

Someone like this guy was like, whatever, I don't care.

Here's the money.

I'm just going to pay the ticket.

I don't want to hassle.

But somebody else is going to go, no, no, no.

We need to define this more aggressively.

I haven't really looked into it that much.

I don't know that you have either because I haven't actually have you.

Okay.

I can actually speak to this a fair amount because Mercedes actually did a program about

a year ago where they introduced their full level three self-driving.

Okay.

So the Tesla is called full self-driving, but it's what we would call still a level two

plus system.

Okay.

So that means that you are still responsible.

So even if the car is driving, let's say it hits something, that's on you.

If it makes a poor lane change and you cut someone off, you cause an accident, it's still

on you.

Tesla is not going to take the liability for that.

And that's sort of where the delineation is.

Mercedes is saying that when you're in that full self-driving mode that we offer, if something

happens, we are liable.

Okay.

That's like Waymo mode at this point, right?

That's level three.

Yeah.

So the way to think of the Tesla system is that it's a level two plus, not a level three.

And therefore you're on the hook for everything.

And that includes speeding because when you're doing the full self-driving, if you put it

in the hurry mode, it'll do 80 on the 405 and like not even blink.

So I actually drove from LA to Vegas in our long-term model.

Why just as an experiment, like how little can I intervene?

Um, and there's two things that you really have to remember when you're using the Tesla

system.

One, it can't read.

So like anything that's one way or like parking and things like that, it can't read signs.

So you're going to want to take over for anything that's like last mile stuff.

And number two, it can't tell when cops are there.

So obviously, yeah, if you're just driving down the street and you're in the one click

up from like the regular standard adaptive mode, it's going 10 to 15 miles an hour over

the speed limit.

And that's on you.

So they're sort of, that's sort of where the delineation is, but people just need to

remember that the laws of whatever state you live in still apply to you.

Cause technically you're still the one driving.

And so even in Mercedes in a level three system, which is kind of the roundabout way to get

to my point.

Um, they said that you can't use your phone in California, even when it's driving because

you're going to get a ticket.

And they're trying to develop a way to like indicate to law enforcement when the car is

in an actual full self driving mode, either through like the lights being a certain color

or that kind of stuff.

But that's very difficult to do in this country in particular, because you're dealing with

50 different states with different speed limits, different laws, different enforcement,

all that kind of stuff.

So the short answer is, yeah, you're going to get a ticket if you're on your phone, even

if you're Tesla's technically doing the, the steering and the going.

Yeah.

That was good.

I appreciate that.

I definitely shed some light on that.

Now I, I know.

So that guy rightfully got his ticket, unfortunately, but yeah, he did.

He did.

I mean, rightfully, according to the letter of the law, but I think this is something

that's going to have to get sort of hammered out legislatively.

Um, but I don't know if that would be a priority for any state at this moment.

So we'll see.

Yeah.

All right.

Brian, always a pleasure.

I appreciate you.

Appreciate you coming in and being on the show with this and hopefully have you back again

soon.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

Hope I did.

Alistair Proud.

I'm sure, I'm sure you did.

All right.

Thanks so much for listening.

We'll see you guys next week.

And until then, keep the air and the spare and the bag and the wheel.

If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe.

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Thank you for listening.

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