Cheap Cars and Expensive Jacks

Welcome to the Abant's podcast. I'm Dan. I'm Nick. It's fall. It is fall. I'm liking it. The heat is on. Yeah, it was it was a quick

transition. The fact that it was like 70 or 80 degrees, like two days ago. And now it's like 50. And yeah, that that mini split works.

They're underrated. Like, I think so many people kind of think, Oh, I don't want that on my wall. But it really is nice.

Yeah, that's a big one 24,000 BTU, which is probably like, it's big, but it's small for a shop of this size. But it

still does a really good job. Yeah, heat up to your office. If you just leave the door open. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's nice.

Although when I'm working in the office all day, I typically only heat the office, of course. That's also an inverter. Oh, that's

right. You don't want up there. I have an AC dedicated just for the office because it's a tone enclosed space and it uses

just uses less energy to heat that. Not much, though. Like, the technologies come a long way. They're really energy

efficient. Well, especially after you've sealed up all these walls to I mean, you little right. Yeah, one tenth of a

wall that's exposed just that needs but you're not losing a ton of heat there. No, it's really not that bad. It's a I was

worried about my heating bill or my excuse me, not my heating but my electricity bill. When I installed that

because I've been running, I've been working out here so much basically the AC was on all the time. And my bill, even

when it was on basically sun up to sundown, it only went up about $20. Wow, which was so worth it. Yeah, to make a

space that is completely unlivable when it's, you know, a sweltering because if it's 80 degrees outside in here,

outside in here, it was like 100 plus. And now it's, you know, 70 on a hot day. And you know, today, it's like you

said, it's like 50 degrees out. It's a nice 72 in here. Yeah, perfect. Very comfortable. The only time I like it to be

72. So yeah, yeah, it's way more efficient to heat and cool the shop than it is the house by a big

margin. Yeah, I got you. Yeah. Well, it's Yeah, I double insulated the walls in here. They're foam

backed plus fiberglass. So there's the R rating probably 30 plus the cold, which is nice. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I've

got to do the ceiling. But so far, I'll that can wait. So it's holding though. I mean, it's, you know, yeah, it's

not very comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. We got for a tip for us this week.

Boy, which one did I have this week? I have I have all these saved. So I feel like we just talked

about it two seconds before we play button. But yeah, no, I was thinking, I was like, Yeah, I'll do that

one. So I want to talk a little bit more about wheel spacers. We've talked about it on the show. I always say

the best, the best wheel spacers the correct is the correct offset wheel. Yeah, that's the ideal solution that

may not always be possible. Sometimes a lot of people want to run specialized rims. Sometimes they

weren't want to run hub adapters. This has been popular since probably the, I think the 90s is when

I mean, it's before that. But I think that really got popular in the 90s when people started

putting like Porsche wheels on Volkswagen's. And of course, that's a different offset. And you can

do that with different hub spacers. Our friends up at HR and Bellingham actually were pretty early on

this game. And there's a lot of horror stories around spacers. A lot of tire shops still won't touch

them.

It's an extra link that can fail. Right. Exactly. Yeah. But a properly installed wheel

spacer, especially some of the newer stuff, Bora, I think they think it's Bora is the

there's a couple of repeatable brands out there that have been doing this a long time and

you really don't have anything to worry about as far as the space are failing. As long as

it's operator air in my mind, like that it's the people that put it on. Yes, it is. If all the

directions torque them properly, use the right lock tight. If they ask for it, that kind of stuff,

they're fine. But they do do, however, and there's no way around it. And you can do I mean, using a

different offset wheel has actually the same impact as it does add a little more stress on

your wheel bearings. And the sign of a wheel bearing is pretty easy to identify. You can

lift your vehicle up and turn that wheel up and down and, you know, shake it physically with

your hands and it'll move a little bit or you can hear it grinding. If you're just go to find a

quiet road, one that doesn't have cement on the sides, but one that is ideally banked on both sides

with vegetation, is that trees absorb sound really well. Yeah. And in the fall is a bad time

to us. And the spring is a great time to do this because everything's coming in. It's all

green. It's thick. It's easy for us to listen to your vehicle by way. It's a great way to

hear the sounds of your vehicles and not everything around you. Luckily, Washington, a lot

opportunity. A lot of opportune places to do that. A lot of great wheel bearing listening

roads. Yeah, CV shafts, things like that. You can start listening to sounds that you wouldn't

normally hear on quiet spaces like that. You don't want to hear. Yeah, you don't want to

hear. But yeah, they're good for it. They're oddly good for diagnosing things. But yeah,

that's really the only thing is just to check your wheel bearings more frequently. And

even then, if you've looked at a wheel bearing repair on most vehicles, it's really

not that difficult. It may look difficult because you're pulling apart your hub. It's messy. Yeah,

that's the big thing. Yeah, packing those bearings can be really messy. You need to buy a proper

bearing press, which is like, if you're going to do this one time, Harbor Freight's fine,

like $7 to $10 probably for a wheel bearing press and the grease press, not a hydraulic

press. I mean, pressing the grease through the bearing, there's a special tool for

that. It's just like it looks like a cone. You just press it and it pushes forces

grease through the bearing. And some come pre looped. If you have a lot of there's sealed

wheel bearings out there, so you may not even need to do that depends on your vehicle. But I

don't know for the look you want for the right offset in our case off road, it can be very

functional to push those tires out farther because when you slide into something, they

protect the body. Downside, of course, is you fling more rocks up to the side of your

vehicle. You don't say. Yeah. So contact our friends over at s tech for proper ppf

on your quarter panels and listen to them when they say you should put stuff there

and you go, no, no, no, no, I'll be fine. Or you can get, I mean, you may not like to

look depending on your vehicle, but mud guards do help a lot with stone chips. I've

got weather tech in the front of the Bronco and Husky on the F 150. And they make a

huge difference. And we ran those through Moab. No problem. Like they flex like

crazy. So there's a lot of guys like, Oh, you don't want those on the reducers

clearance. They're pretty tough. And you can just grab in if you are

dedicated off road or you can run those really, really flexible rubber ones. Those

do serve a good purpose. Our friend that we have some people have been in row

Duraflap, they make custom ones even. So if you need custom mudflaps, no matter

what it is, you can go up there and talk to those guys, their offices right

in Monroe, and they can make them for you. But just to know, you know,

those spacers, if you buy reputable brand and you install them correctly,

they're probably fine. A little more wheel bearing, where a lot more aware

on the side of your vehicle makes, like I said, as text the proper answer,

but mudflaps do a good job in a pinch. And there you go.

Makes sense. Yeah, it totally makes sense. I mean, and I think, you know,

especially when I was when I always thought of wheel spacers and things

like that, I was obviously the 90s and 2000s. And we were in our sports

cars and things like that. And you had to be careful because you pushed

it out too much with the flex. You could, you'd have to roll fenders

and there's all kinds of stuff that you that math has always sort of

negative and positive offset camber. I remember when we were trying to,

when I was trying to put wheels on one of the Subaru's and Blake was helping

me and he, you know, he knows all the math is for it because he's in the

wheel business. But that's just insane to me that, you know,

because you got to think about so many factors. So yeah,

speaking of, I wanted to follow up on something from the last show.

Somebody asked me about it just in a DM there. What was that alignment

tool? It's called gyro line. Gyro line is a new company that

a new company that they're not, I shouldn't say they're not that new,

but they're relatively new because they, they use your phone to do

alignment in your car. And it's basically like a 3d printed pad

that you hook onto the wheel. And then you can set the alignment

spec in the app. And then as you make adjustments to your

suspension, it will show. And if you think about it, your

phone has an incredible accelerometer, it has a gyroscope,

it has every sensor under the sun in your phone. And it's

extremely accurate. It's not, this is not cheap junk. This is

the, the, the measure, the way your phone handles measurements

is really, really precise.

Well, look at the measuring app. I've never understood how

that works.

Yeah, it's pretty amazing. But you can it'll, you know, toe

camber caster, you basically just set your phone on this.

And then it's not just as simple as a high quality 3d

print. Like this is really exact stuff. And from

everything I've read online, I did my own research. I

haven't used this tool personally, watching videos of

it from people who weren't paid to use it. And it seems to

work great. It's 200 bucks, no subscriptions, no fees. We've

got a money back guarantee. It's only 30 days. I wish it was

longer than that. But I mean, it's really long enough to do

a few long enough to just put your phone in a basically a

flat box and then put them in and watch the measurements

as you change. So like they have tons reviews, these

guys seem to, I think they have a patent, they're

kind of like, which doesn't stop China from doing

anything ever. But I would support the guys that

make it because they've done the research and the app

support. I always do this. If there's anything

that relies on an app, I go to the app store. It's a

great product with one and a half stars in the app

store because it only works on, you know, one iOS

version and then nobody's updated it in 20 years.

These guys have five stars. The app seems to work

well. So if you need to do your own alignment or

you're just curious about it, 200 bucks is a pretty

low investment as far as a tool. And if it

works, that's pretty sweet. Yeah, like, because

it's really, like I said, once you get under

there and look at your suspension, it starts to

make sense. But you kind of, at least for me, I'm

not, other people can think better than I can.

So with that, I can't see something and visualize

it until I'm kind of doing it. I got to get in

there and get my hands on it, do it myself.

And then like, oh, okay, now this all makes

together, all this makes sense, jives together,

you know. So anyway, Gyroline was the company

and yeah, they seem to be pretty reputable.

And a lot of people seem to like that tool.

So interesting. Yeah. So I got a couple of

conundrums in my mind as I think about today.

I was looking at the news and ironically, because

of where Avance is in Washington and

California and things like that, I mean, gas prices

are an issue. I mean, Washington has taken over

as the highest gas prices. Insurance has gone

through the roof. And I started to think

back at like, when we were kids and young

adults, and you know, when we wanted to get

into a car, you wanted a good car, you

know. And I think in 2000, you could buy

a base base model Kia for about $10,000.

Yep. I remember the commercials.

Yeah. And I mean, and you got $100,000 on warranty.

Hyundai was the same way.

Yeah.

The reason I bring this up is we were driving

and we were driving behind some electric Kia.

You're looking car.

And Kate goes, that's a Kia. Like that looks so high

end. Like I thought Kia's were, you know, built

to be basic. And I said, well, a lot of them

used to be. And it made me thinking like,

made me start thinking like, what is that

car today? Like if you have to go out and buy

just a car to get you from point A to point B

and you're not buying a used car, like if

you want to buy a new car with a warranty.

In my mind, it was always a Kia. It was always

a Hyundai. They gave you a great product,

good warranty, they had good service.

The cars were reliable because they had to

be because a lot of people that were,

that don't have higher income needed that.

And I started to look around and there

wasn't like, again, the new to baseline

Kia now I think I went on the website.

I don't remember what model it was. I should have.

And I expected and it was $21,000, which is

double, obviously. And I understand everybody

sitting there screaming at the radio, there's

inflation and things like that. Yeah, I get that.

Yeah. And then just for reference, I'd look

this up as you were talking about it, $10,000

in 2010 in today's money is about just shy

of 15,000. So there's significant inflation,

but it's still not 21,000. And extra $6,000

when you're buying a cheap commuter or you

don't have a lot of money is a lot of money.

I don't care what anybody says, $6,000 is just

still a lot of money. It can be pretty

life changing to people and that's a huge

impact. That's to be able to get into an

entry level car at plus 20,000 is a problem.

Well, it is. And you know, I've had several

people through us doing this have come to us

and asked us about car recommendations and

people say, you know, and I understand

if you're buying your kid a car, you

mean buying new is not a bad idea if you

can find a great car or finding a used car.

But with used cars, you have no warranty,

there's maintenance issues. And I have suggested

many people like go out and look at

Kia's, look at Hyundai's, look at the basic

Corolla's things like that, you know, where

you're not getting a lot of the creature

comforts. And yes, Kia has a lot of the

new comforts, you know, they have a lot of

electronics and things like that. And I'm

sure that's where a lot of the cost comes

from. At the base of it, it's pretty

much the same frame, same suspension,

same engine they've always had.

Obviously, they branched off into the

hybrids and things like that. But I

mean, you look at Hyundai and then

when they spun off Genesis, and

those Genesis cars are more expensive

than Mercedes and they're nice.

They're beautiful. They're absolutely

beautiful. But that base, that I feel

like they've gotten away from that.

And to be honest, I couldn't come up

with a car, like I wasn't able to find

something that was new with a warranty

that was under $20,000.

Yeah, there's virtually nothing out

there, you know. And that's a lot, I

mean, that's a ton of money for

anybody that's a ton of money. So it

was just somewhat, it was a realization

obviously, because I was looking at,

I've been looking around, you know, I

had to, my insurance is due and so,

you know, of course, that's when you

start to look around and, you know, I've

reached out to some of our friends and

fortunately, unfortunately, I have a

great package with who I'm with, with

my insurance and so, but it's still

stupid expensive to ensure all that

stuff. So it's the monkeys that get

you. I mean, I think they're $23

a year a month or so.

Yeah, I think it's $800 a year.

Maybe. So I don't know, I'm putting

the question out there too.

Obviously, you know, if you go to

the used market, you don't know

what is, what has happened to a car

and I'm seeing a lot of people now,

this is a topic on top of a topic that

are getting those OBD2 readers and

they're taking them with them to buy,

to buy new cars, which I think is

really smart, because even the person

selling you the car may not know

what's wrong with the car and you'll

be able to, but so, and those are

really cheap. That's just somewhat of

a side note that, you know, my ADHD

brain went down, but I just can't

seem to find the new entry level

plus the new white girl, Jetta.

There you go. I mean, you know, we've

said it a hundred times, Brian has been

on the show and we talked about it,

like you used to be able to get

Mustangs and Camaros in the 20s.

Like that was a thing, like base

models, V6s, four cylinders, things

like that.

Yeah.

Well, like you said, there's

nothing out there for under $20,000.

The Avantz members marketplace is a

fantastic place to go.

Oh, God, yes. I mean, I would

trust cars from that, but I'm just

saying.

If you're not an Avantz member,

that's enough reason to join Avantz

and the reason is, is because

the community sort of has your back.

People will vouch for other members.

They typically are very upfront

about problems.

And so instead of, like, there's

two sides of this coin.

I would rather buy a car from somebody

who says it has these problems

and they're super upfront about it,

especially stuff you can't see.

Yeah.

Because even if it's a big one,

because at least then I know

what I'm walking into.

I unplugged the battery two minutes

before you get here.

In 10 minutes, the check engine

lights gonna come on.

Yeah.

And then there's a running joke,

like check engine lights are

blown way out of proportion with

people who aren't car enthusiasts

because we're like, yeah, it does

that because of the tune,

the intake, the mid pipe.

It has no cats.

God knows what else, you know.

And the car thinks it's in Serbia.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Yeah.

But I would, I would much rather

buy from a private seller

that I know than even off a dealer

lot.

It's not like the deal.

I mean, the dealer is gonna

maximize their profits.

It's a business.

And I think we're not

blasting anybody for doing that.

But there's a lot of things

they're not gonna fix or want

to fix.

Yeah.

A lot of cars they're not

gonna take it on trade

because they're not worth it.

Or if they do, they're just like,

that goes to auction buy.

Have a nice day.

Yeah.

And they make it up on the other

other end.

But yes, this is a good

topic.

We visited a few times, but

I always tell everybody the

answer in the Pacific Northwest

is the is the cross track.

Still in the mid 20s for that.

Yep.

But for the Pacific Northwest,

I still think

for most people just looking

for a point A to point B car,

a utilitarian vehicle,

it covers a lot of bases

and it's not just a point A

to point B car.

The Corolla is great.

It's a standard, you know,

the Corolla, the Sentra,

the the the Civic,

all that stuff is great.

But you're into the mid 20s,

low 30s.

And for that, I would rather

send people into a cross track.

It's not going to have as much

power.

It's not going to get quite

as good mileage,

but it's going to get you there

in the rain a lot safer

and it's going to get to the

mountains and it's going to

get you off the off to the

trail down that gravel road.

And it's a good car.

And I would add to that.

And again, we know the people,

the listeners know we're

super people, but

Forrester, like I was never

a huge fan of the Forrester.

And then I married a lovely

woman and she came with a

Forrester.

And it's been great mileage

and it's been cheap to keep up.

I was looking at Chevy.

I was trying to see if they

still they don't make the

sparks and stuff like that

anymore.

The little stuff like that.

So I had overlooked that.

So well, as Dave Ramsey would

say, take, you know,

people are all crazy

for the amount of cars

they're financing.

And yeah, which is to

enthusiasts is a little

different because you're

your car is not just

your transportation.

It is your hobby.

It is not just your tool.

It is something you enjoy

driving and something you,

a way to enjoy spending your time.

You can get a Chevy Trax

starting at 20,000.

Okay, a little less should be.

Yeah, yeah.

Again, you know,

this is just something that

came up in conversation.

So I don't know what

the answer is.

Obviously, you know,

the used market is out there,

but as more technologically

advanced cars come on

to the used market,

there's going to be

more and more cost to

owning them.

I mean, this echoes back

to a very good friend of ours

who works for Audi

that was talking to us one time

and said that a new luxury car

there's gotten a hailstorm

and it's totaled

because there's so much electronics

in the roof that they get.

So it's stuff like that

that really affects,

obviously that affects

the cost of the car initially

and it affects repair costs

in the future.

And it's just, you know,

as we come into,

you know,

financially financial times

where, you know,

interest rates are going

to come down,

but you know,

it's ebb and flow,

but right now it's, you know,

we're paying over $5,

$5 a gallon in some places

in the state.

Yeah.

And California is talking

and will likely go through

with their mileage tax,

which means Washington

and Oregon will be shortly

behind because, you know,

why wouldn't we do

something like that?

And that's just basically

where you're going

to report your miles to them

and then...

Well, it's easier to enforce

in California

because they still have

smog check,

like you have to go in

and get your vehicle

inspected.

How they do it here,

big brother.

I mean,

luckily I think

we're far enough out

of the city where

it's an OBD2 thing

or something, probably.

Yeah, I'm not doing that.

I don't want to give them ideas.

Yeah, well,

yeah.

Yeah.

But obviously that,

the problem is is

which I,

it's such simple logic.

I don't know why people

don't understand it.

If you,

the people that travel

the most for work,

do have,

typically have the lowest

amount of money to do that.

Like that's why

they're traveling so much.

Yeah, they're living

in an area they can afford

so they can go work at a

job that will pay them

enough.

And that's just

most people.

That's life.

Like if,

you know,

I lived in Arlington

and commuted to Bellevue

because that was where

the money was

and that's,

so I had to make the commute

and then when I got

more money,

I moved closer to my job.

Like that's how

you do that though.

If you're,

if I was going to rent

an apartment in,

you know,

Bellevue or Kirkland,

like I was,

I was,

you know,

even then

that was going to be

2,000 plus a month.

My mortgage in Arlington

was 1250.

So do the math.

All the good old days.

Yeah,

I can buy a lot of gas

with $750 a month.

Yes.

Especially then.

Especially in a nice little

commuter car

that gets 30 miles a gallon.

Yeah,

I was getting 42

in the Corolla.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And so,

yeah.

And so that,

but that mileage tax,

like,

it's ridiculous.

Now,

I mean,

if I have to pay

an extra $1,000 a year

because of a mileage tax,

I'm annoyed,

but it doesn't really

impact me that much

over the course of a year.

But if I'm making 20,

you know,

35 to $50,000 a year,

that's a lot more money.

You know,

you can even get a Corolla

for under 23.

No.

All this,

like I said,

it's just,

I don't know.

I mean,

we go back to the days

of the hamsters

and,

you know,

in the Kia

and it was,

it was under,

it was sub 20s.

Das Auto, yeah.

Das Autos

and things like that.

So I just,

it's more of a question

out there of people

and I would love to see

some feedback,

you know,

obviously like we do

when we post this stuff

to kind of talk about it

because

I'm curious.

Yeah.

If you're buying new,

okay, here's the question.

If you're buying new,

a lot of,

I want to hear this

from the people with kids,

especially,

because they're the ones

who are really looking at this

stuff.

What are you buying?

If you're buying cheap,

I mean,

if you have the luxury of option

of buying more of a car

for your kid,

something in the 30s,

great,

like more power to you,

good for them,

good for you,

we're happy for it,

but a lot of people don't.

So what are you buying your kid?

And two,

if you're buying used,

what are you looking at?

Now for me,

I went down this rabbit hole

recently and,

and I'm still

looking around a little bit.

I'm waiting,

feeling things out a little bit

before I buy anything,

but I'm really,

really gravitating toward that

2015 plus

mark 7.5

GTI.

How many people sent you that ad?

Three.

Okay.

For the Golf R.

Yeah.

And I,

I love the Golf R,

but that's more than I want to spend.

It's more car than I need.

And I've been,

and like,

there's an R8 right here.

I understand.

And I had the S3.

That's just a large,

you know,

yeah.

It's like,

and the S3 was here.

So it's not like I need,

you know,

I didn't want to go back to,

the Golf R is fantastic.

I love the Golf R,

but it's not what I need.

And so,

the mark 7.5.

And people are like,

well, you can buy a lot of gas for,

for that.

I'm like,

it's not just the gas.

I don't want to put the miles on the truck.

It's comfortable.

I love driving it,

but I also want something fun

and sporty to drive on that.

Yeah.

Like I,

I can get by with less,

but I'm luckily,

luckily I am,

excuse me,

I am fortunate that I have options.

And I like to be,

if I can get it right,

like around that 15,000 range,

I can get a really fun car

with,

you know,

relatively good miles.

I'm not too afraid of miles,

because,

you know,

I can work on a Volkswagen all day.

And if I can't,

I know people who can't.

Yeah.

And I can afford to fix things

as they come up.

But a mark 7.5 GTI

is sort of the,

the pinnacle of Volkswagen to me.

It's not hybrid.

The DSG is really good.

You can get a manual if you want it.

I'm DSG obviously,

because I want a commuter

and I don't want to be,

I will be stuck in traffic

in Redmond multiple times

with commutes.

So I'm going for DSG.

My mileage is good enough.

And it's just plain fun to drive.

It's a car I can do a little bit to,

and it'll be

suspension upgrades on that

car, a bit of a stereo upgrade,

tint the windows,

some s-tech.

If it doesn't have it,

good to go.

Well, I mean,

I literally driving here today

rolled over 14,000 miles on the truck

in 17 months.

Oh, I'm catching up.

Yeah, I got about 11,000 on the truck.

My point is they don't get driven

that much,

because one,

it's,

well,

that is the downfall of that truck

is the fact that I barely get

300 miles out of a tank.

And no matter how I drive it,

if I drive it fast,

if I drive it slow,

but,

you know,

I,

so if given the option,

that truck is my fun car,

you know,

I mean,

and,

and we have the Subaru,

obviously,

so that's our,

our mileage car,

and it gets

three times better gas bunch,

but,

yeah,

it's,

and it's also stupid,

expensive to fill up that truck.

Like that was one of the things,

and I will say this,

and I've admitted it,

that was one of the things I

forgot to factor

when buying that truck.

I factored insurance,

I factored my payments,

I factored my rates,

everything,

because I was just,

in my mind,

I was so used to going to the gas station,

and it costing me

45 to 50 dollars to fill up the car.

And now it's like,

oh,

so that was my mistake.

And so,

yeah,

you do.

Luckily,

I only filled the truck about

twice as well.

You also have a bigger tank.

Oh yeah,

yeah.

35 gallons,

but it's still 150 dollars to fill up.

Yeah,

they make a new 35 gallon tank for my truck.

But does it reduce your ground clearance a lot?

No.

Ooh.

Sucks up.

It takes up every little bit of,

yeah.

That,

that is tempting.

All right,

it's,

it's very tempting,

but it's,

yeah,

I mean,

but then again,

you know,

you're going okay,

I get 35 gallons,

which would,

so I think I barely get 18,

so I'd be almost doubling it.

Wow.

Yeah.

You get so.

Better mileage than I thought.

I'm getting 16 to 17.

That's what I'm getting in my truck though,

which is crazy.

Yeah.

Because my truck's 1000 pounds heavier than yours,

and it's a bigger engine.

So it's,

is it a bigger engine?

Yeah, it is.

3.5 or 2.3.

Yeah,

you're right,

you're right.

That's 0.5,

yeah.

Yeah.

Quick math.

Which is interesting,

because the three liter with the tune,

which the,

for the Bronco gets the same mileage,

well,

did you do the tune on the Bronco?

I have it,

but yeah.

Oh yeah, okay.

Yeah.

It's sitting over there on a shelf.

Yeah.

Um,

I just think man,

no time.

I know,

I get it.

I didn't know.

Yeah.

That's why I said,

did you,

did you get it done?

So, yeah.

No,

I need to take it in.

Yeah.

I'm not doing it myself

because I want the warranty,

but,

but it gets about the same mileage,

which isn't,

doesn't saying a lot for Ford.

No.

Because it should be getting better.

Yeah,

it's not going to.

1000 pounds is a lot,

but I mean,

whatever.

I don't know.

That's the question.

What are you buying?

What, what, what,

give us,

I,

I mean,

what do we overlook?

A lot of times,

and this is one of those topics

where we just sort of

kind of

briefly talked about it

before we came on the show.

I didn't do a ton of research,

but it was like,

I knew enough that like,

I remember you could buy a Kia

for $10,000.

And that seemed like a lot back then.

Well,

but if you don't,

if you're not worried about mileage,

or mileage,

not miles per gallon,

but mileage,

overall mileage,

I'd say leasing a Model 3

is pretty hard to beat.

Yeah.

At 300 bucks,

I think that might be the,

I think today,

oh, unfortunately,

I think today was the last day to do that.

Yesterday was the last day.

So maybe that's 400 now.

Still.

Also,

and there's,

I have to say that,

it's not just 300 bucks.

There's a down payment.

Oh, no,

there's like 6,000.

Yeah.

There's,

there's a substantial down payment.

Oh, every lease,

there's a down payment.

Yeah.

But yeah,

if you wanted to get into an EV,

there's that.

I'm really disappointed the slate

didn't work out.

Now,

it hasn't,

to be fair,

people are like,

what do you mean it didn't work out?

They're just getting started.

I'm like, yeah,

but they were supposed to be 20,000.

Now they're 30,000.

And you're buying a bare bones vehicle for $30,000.

With no EV tax credit.

So quickly.

Yeah.

Maybe there's,

they're talking about these new battery,

new battery technology,

sodium filled versus lithium,

it's supposed to drive prices down

and make batteries more efficient.

It's,

it's too new for us to say what it will do,

or if it'll be revolutionary or not,

but maybe,

but EVs never really lived up to the hype

they were supposed to,

as far as cost.

They did in technology and a lot of other features,

they really pushed things forward

and I'm thankful for that.

But unfortunately,

they sort of have moved themselves

due to costs into that,

more of a niche market

that most people can't afford to buy into.

It made sense when they were at those numbers.

Yeah.

Did you,

did you follow some of those Ford deals that came out?

No.

You can now,

Lisa Raptor.

Really?

Yes.

That's now a thing.

I've seen that from two sources

and Ford came out with something with,

even if you had bad credit,

they were going to get you approved on one of their,

like,

I think they're desperate to get some stuff off the lots,

but yeah, that's,

yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm on the Ford Bronco Raptor owner's group on Facebook

and a lot of people.

That's dangerous.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's actually,

it's an oddly civil place.

Let me say oddly civil,

but a lot of people are talking about the costs

and because I think the new ones

are $10,000 cheaper now,

but they're still 87 or something.

Yeah.

Still stupid.

And you can still find them all day for discounts.

Yep.

And depending on the market,

you go to.

And I said this again,

I'm just going to end with this

before we move on to our next topic.

Look at a state.

If you live in an area like ours,

where there's a lot of money floating around

because people get paid relatively well here

and there's a lot of them,

just go look at a state and a place where they don't.

The Bronco was picked up in urban Illinois

in a town with no stop lights

for 20,000 off MSRP.

Brand new, full warranty,

right off the dealer a lot.

And you can find those deals on basically any car.

Well, those dealerships love to do that

because a lot of times

they're forced to buy those cars

and nobody in the town is going to buy it,

except the one guy that owns the town

and the dealership.

And it's just a fun experience.

And you're like, people are like,

well, you're not really saving that much.

And I said, well, you are if you're financing,

like 99% of the buyers these days,

you're probably financing that.

And over time, that math makes a big difference,

that 20,000.

So you're like, yeah, my payment's the same.

Stop looking at your payment.

Look at the overall cost,

total cost, not just your payment.

And then make it an adventure.

Go buy a vehicle out of state, drive it home.

Go see some national parks,

see some landmarks.

Go find that big ball of twine, whatever.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

Go find the world's biggest paperclip.

It's stuff's out there.

Frying pan.

Yeah.

Go through.

I want to do that sometime.

Yeah.

And the discounted markets are typically

the South and the West Midwest.

I say West Midwest

because it's like right down that center line,

that West side tends to be a little bit cheaper.

You go East and you've got more major cities

because the way people

navigated across the United States.

Weird.

Yeah.

So the smaller the area,

but also Arizona, Texas, New Mexico,

not so much Utah

because there's a decent amount of money in Utah,

that corridor.

So you don't see the big discounts there.

Colorado.

Few deals here and there,

but they don't always meet the same emissions

as Washington and California.

So remember that.

Most vehicles are 50-state compliant now,

but not all, including raptors.

You need to make sure you ask that too

when you're buying a car.

Yeah, you gotta make sure you ask that.

Some people, even people that are selling you

might not know that.

Because they're so used to selling cars

to people in their areas.

Yeah.

And Florida is a great place too.

Use can be sketchy out of Florida.

That's where the Land Cruiser came from, wasn't it?

Yep.

Use can be sketchy out of Florida

if you don't know the history.

Just, are you very aware of that?

Yeah.

Comes with water.

Yeah.

A lot of water.

That's right.

It's humidity and salt water down there.

Well, it's actually,

you don't see much of a rust problem

in Florida because it rains so much.

They get those big rain storms

that come through all the time

so their rust is bad.

The hurricanes.

Yeah, exactly.

But you get flooding

and a lot of flood cars down there,

but buying new, that's really not a concern.

Obviously, you have to worry about that.

And you can, there's a lot of,

it's a big drive.

It doesn't get much further than Florida to here,

but it's a beautiful drive

and you can see so many places.

So, you know, go through New Orleans.

Go through, you know, go through Texas.

Don't stop.

Just drive through.

Get a good lunch in New Orleans.

Oh, God, beignets, yeah.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Get some good tacos in Texas.

Get some good tacos in New Mexico.

Lots of tacos and then.

Taco-based trip.

Yep.

Go find the best tacos across the U.S.

Hell, go buy a Tacoma.

Tacos on tacos.

There you go.

Yeah.

So, I'm actually, that's another point

I wanted to bring up here before we close.

A lot of people talk about like,

the Raptors are a great example.

Tacomas are a great example.

Buying those high-end trims,

the, what's the trail hunter?

Yeah.

The Raptor, obviously.

They're not as expensive as you might think.

They're expensive in the overall cost

as in when you buy them new,

but the depreciation scales where it's at.

An F-150, regular 4x4, not Raptor,

with basic options like not an FX4

just is going to depreciate

because there's so many of them so fast.

In fact, they're one of the faster

depreciating vehicles in the market.

Most trucks are, but Raptors are not.

Raptors and Tacomas,

especially like those special editions

are some of the slowest depreciating cars

in the market, even with mileage.

When I sold my 2020 famously,

I think I lost maybe $10,000 on it

with 70,000 miles on it.

Like, it cost me nothing to own that truck.

Yes, I paid interest,

but if you look at the depreciation scale,

I lost less money than somebody

buying a standard F-150 of the same year

and selling at the same time.

Like, I actually came out on top of them

and I paid way more for my truck,

but I lost a lot less money.

Well, then that's sort of the point.

Make more by losing less.

Yeah, make more exactly.

Make more by losing less.

Also, I wanted to say caveat.

The lease deal on the Raptors

may have been for September.

I just realized it's October,

but look it up.

But they were definitely doing it.

So that's, which is big.

That's crazy.

Had that been a deal when the Ranger was,

I probably would have just leased an F-150.

Yeah.

Yeah, I might have too,

just for the rate that I like to turn over cars.

Yeah.

I like my next car the best.

My favorite car is the next one.

Probably the one after that.

Yeah.

Okay.

I need to pick your brain on something.

Okay.

Next topic.

My lovely wife,

because my garage is full of all the toys that you have.

The one toy I don't have,

well, there's two toys I don't have right now.

It's an air inflator.

Well, I do, but I don't have my Morph late

because there was a whole thing.

Screw you, Amazon.

And two, I should have gotten a Morph late for it.

And two, I need a new floor jack.

I've always had just cheap floor jacks.

I want something that's a little bit off road.

I want something that if I needed to throw it

in the back of the truck

and strap it down, it'd be good.

Obviously, I've been looking at the bad lands,

you know, through Harbor Freight.

But the question is, you know, do I need a three ton jack?

I mean, the cars I'm going to be jacking up

is the Ranger Raptor,

the Subaru Forester to check for nails,

and then the God forbid, the Triumph,

as long as the frame doesn't blast through it.

But my point is, do you think I can get away

with a one and a half ton jack?

Yep.

Okay.

Remember, well, a couple things to consider

with the jack.

You're not jacking up your entire vehicle at once.

You're not taking a center pivot point

and lifting the entire vehicle off the ground.

You're going to lift.

Challenge accepted.

Okay.

As the saying goes, you give me a lever big enough

and I can lift anything.

Yeah.

And so you can look, yeah, when sizing your jack,

think about that for one.

Off-road jacks, the biggest advantage

is the big wheels.

You're dragging things through dirt and gravel.

Gravel is most the time that you're running through.

And no other jack will do that well.

You got to lift it up, put it over there,

put it under it, place it.

The bad lands I use out here all the time.

Tractor, the trailer, everything.

I just drag it across the property.

It's super easy.

It's big.

It's big and it's heavy.

Yeah.

And it does not have.

70 or 80 pounds.

Yeah.

And it does not have pivoting front wheels

like every other jack out there.

I mean, those super minimal race jacks

that have just the one center wheel,

the long one in the front, there's that.

But those things only weigh like 20 by pounds.

Yeah.

You know, for the cheap ones,

the actual race jacks are thousands of dollars

and they weigh like five pounds.

But yeah.

So if you have a use case for bringing your jack with you

or you have land like I do

with a big massive gravel and dirt everywhere,

it's sort of a must have for working any kind of rural area.

Somebody described to me in the fact is,

obviously, you know, you have Pro Eagle,

which is ungodly expensive.

They're thousands of dollars.

It's a thousand bucks for a three ton jack from them.

Yep.

Harbor Freight obviously copied it like they did.

And somebody said,

if you want the bad lands three ton,

that's your pit jack.

And they said the one and a half ton

is the one that you put in the truck.

And which I kind of like,

because eventually I would like to find something

where I could carry it with me.

So I'd have it, you know.

It's better to have it not need it

than need it not have it kind of thing.

But I need one.

And I think that I think Harbor Freight's the best option

because everywhere else I've looked, you know,

I mean, I think I had one from Sears.

It was crass and it was great.

I should have never gotten rid of it.

But I think it started to rust.

And it was just that was a care issue for me.

I wasn't caring for it like I needed to.

Yeah. Well, luckily now,

even with Harbor Freight jacks,

you can rebuild them pretty easily.

They have grease.

With Harbor Freight parts.

Yeah. Yeah.

You can order parts from Harbor Freight.

You can get new cylinders,

hydraulic cylinders to put in them,

everything you'd need.

They have parts diagrams.

They're oddly more serviceable than people think.

You don't want,

even if you rust your jack out,

take it apart, paint it.

Unless you've like rusted through,

it's really not a big issue.

I think one and a half will work.

Yeah. The only thing I would say

that is worth looking at with the jack

and if for your specific use case,

make sure you can find a mount for it.

That's a big, heavy piece

that needs to be really well secured

because that thing turns into a flying weapon

when you're using a raptor as a raptor.

So yeah, I would find a good mount

or what I would do is those guys that,

the SVC or the guys that I got the collars from.

Yeah.

And this would be,

this is an extreme,

but I'd end up getting that tire mount in the back.

Oh yeah.

That puts it,

and then there's a jack mount built in the middle.

Yep.

It is a nice piece.

So that's probably where I would go with that

if I had to.

I'd lose some obviously,

unusual bed space,

but I feel,

I think a monkey would still fit back there,

so it wouldn't be a big deal.

People would stop asking me to help them move,

but other than that,

you know, I'm kidding.

No, that's,

you're right.

That's a missile that would gladly go

through the end of the tailgate,

but I also have that,

I also have that basket that flips down,

and I think,

but I could put some molly panels,

and I think there's,

there's a couple of places that you could,

you can mount it to the floor,

and then,

and tie it into the molly panels too.

Yeah, I'm just saying,

a lot of jacks have specific mounts for them.

I agree.

There's a,

I was,

I was thinking,

I thought you meant one for the wall,

because like,

Pro Eagle has one that,

where it hangs on the wall,

which is really neat.

Yeah.

You can buy generic jack mounts

for a shop that are really nice to have,

and there you want to,

you either want a stainless one

or an aluminum one,

because that thing's,

you're putting in and out a pretty heavy object.

Yes.

You're banging the crap out of it.

But yeah,

like I ordered one for the trailer,

and now I think about it,

I don't know where it's at,

but I have a trailer mount jack,

so I can bolt it to the wall.

Yeah.

And so when I,

because of,

you know,

traveling the car around,

I obviously don't want a jack

that's going to roll around,

and I like to free up all the bed space in the truck.

That would be bad.

Yeah, I do really bad.

Yeah.

So there's that,

look for the jack mount,

is like,

I'm with you,

like what,

like we talked about in the last show,

is Brian,

I was talking to Brian Dallas,

light,

as lightweight as possible,

all that weight adds up so quick,

and the more you wait,

you can take off your vehicle,

or the minimal amount you can add,

it's worth it,

in my opinion.

Well, that 1.5 ton

still comes with that extension

you can put up,

so you can still,

if I had to jack up something

that was higher than my truck,

or an ATV that was on,

you know,

something like that.

Yeah.

This is the stuff we think about,

like when we're,

I'm like,

well,

I understand how I would use it,

but what if I was out

and somebody else needed to use it?

So.

Yeah,

you're not going to find a lot

of 3.25 ton trucks off-roading

in the places you go.

No.

They're,

I mean,

there are,

I did,

but I'm the 1%

of the 3.25 ton owners,

you know,

and,

you know,

if you're out with somebody

with a big vehicle,

like if I was taking the F-150

out with you guys,

I was gonna,

I would bring my own jack.

Yeah.

Because,

I wouldn't expect you guys

to have one.

Fair enough.

Yeah.

I still don't like,

I mean,

I always laugh at the scissor

jack that comes in that truck,

and I'm like,

and I'm on,

I'm,

okay, so,

technically,

okay, I've got an extra two inches

in the front,

but still, like,

I look at that,

I go,

there's no way that,

that would take forever

to get to the frame,

and it's like,

it's not gonna jack the wheel up,

so, yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know,

for off-road though,

yes,

the 1.5 ton will do it.

I still think the Badlands jack,

even as heavy as it is,

is actually a better buy,

because

of how man,

how maneuverable it is,

and the conditions you would use it.

I agree.

Like if you need to change a tire

because you've debeded one,

Brian,

then it's really nice to have

that other jack.

Yes, you can do with it,

the factory jack,

but it's so much easier

with the proper jack.

Jack it up and do it, yeah.

Yeah, and you can drag it

through the dirt,

and,

you know,

good to go.

Yeah.

I think,

like I said,

I wanted to kind of put it to you,

because obviously,

this is the,

makes a great conversation

for the show,

but I was also like,

and I mean,

there's price difference

between that too,

like that's not,

that even,

that Badlands three ton

is still $400 with.

So, yeah.

One, Black Friday's coming.

I know your birthday's

around the corner,

but if you want to save

some money,

Black Friday item,

that's a big,

and you know,

couple times a year

that Jack goes on sale,

I got mine for $320.

Yeah.

On a,

so it was $40 off.

Yeah.

And then,

it's $365 plus tax

so you're over $400.

Yeah.

The one and a half is $265.

It's $100 difference.

Yeah.

So, yeah.

Something about there.

Yeah.

Speaking of Jacks,

I keep,

obviously we took the lift out

because the way it was set up,

it just,

the plans changed,

and I'm glad they did,

because I like the way

the shop is set up now,

but I still want to be able to lift

vehicles.

And so I'm still thinking

I might go back to Quick Jacks,

but at that same price point,

once you get,

Quick Jacks aren't cheap.

They're made by BendPak.

It's the store too.

Exactly.

Bitch to store,

they're not cheap.

They work really well,

but,

and for how infrequent I use them,

they're still not a bad option

because I can wall mount them.

I have,

they're very heavy,

but you can basically pivot them up,

put them on the wall at mounts.

You have the wall mounts.

Yeah.

We mounted them

on,

and down in snow some,

some amish.

Yeah.

And so I could do the same thing

here.

All the walls are reinforced

for mounting.

It's the tubes that always

bothered me,

like because the hydraulic lines

have always dripped.

You always drip a little fluid

coming out.

Yeah.

So,

and the other option I've been

looking at is a movable full

scissor lift.

And 8,000 pound ones,

they're not that popular.

You still have the hydraulic unit.

It's all just on wheels

and it moves around, but

I'm going back and forth.

And obviously the scissor lift

is a much better system

because it's a full,

it's a true mid-rise.

So it'll give you about 40 inches

of lift,

which is a comfortable space

to do tire changes,

oil changes.

Like that's really

totally manageable.

That's okay.

I can't stand up under the vehicle,

but that's not a big deal.

I'm not doing transmission changes.

I don't want to do that level

of work anymore.

So I choose not to.

Yeah.

I just don't want to.

I don't want to get into that

much of a project.

Maybe sometime when I retire,

I'll do a project car,

but it won't be here.

It's like you're going to retire, right?

You're going to work with your

brain till the end of the days.

But yeah.

Okay.

So, but I've been going back

and forth on that.

I have talked to our friends

with hydraulic solutions,

of course, who treated me great

and I would probably work

with them again.

A plus lifts.

So I had last time,

yes, they're a Chinese made lift.

Mine was fantastic.

The quality is great.

My reviews are great on them.

As long as you don't know

what you're doing in setup.

Like most things,

prep is everything

and they send to work fund.

I'm going to need to see photos of it

because it's a storage thing.

How do you store that?

Scissor lift like that.

I would literally just put it

on that side of the shop

and leave it there.

Okay, okay.

So it's somewhat of a permanent

mount,

but it's not,

you're not drilling it

into the concrete.

Yeah, exactly.

And so here's the nice thing

about this.

And this is one thing

I wish I could do more often

is that I can move it

to the driveway

and when I need it.

Ah, that's good.

I wouldn't store it out there.

No, but I get what you're

saying, like being able to

jack it up in there,

gives you more space

around the vehicle,

things like that.

Exactly.

And like,

I don't have to move both cars out.

Like I can just

literally move it out there

if I need to.

And so,

and you know me,

if it needs to move a lot,

I'll make something

to make it easier to move.

I'll upgrade the wheels,

whatever.

I'll find some way

to keep it all

nice and compact.

So I'm looking for

a simple solution like that.

And it's not a high priority,

probably a next year thing,

but it's one of the things

that

as much as I love

how the shop is turning out,

it still is not complete

because I don't have

some good lifts.

Impact makes those four post

lifts that are on wheels

that when it comes down,

it takes its own weight

and puts itself up on wheels.

Oh, I know.

I mean,

that would be a lot in here,

but

It's also like

$2,500 versus

$10,500.

I'm a waitress,

but what's the fun

of spending somebody else's

money

if you can't spend

all of it?

Yeah.

That's true.

And then I can put

more cars in here.

Yeah.

Turned my little

two car shop.

I mean,

I could fit three

if I had to,

but four car shop

would be nice.

Oh, we could get.

I could,

yeah,

I could fit one,

two, three, four.

I could probably fit

six if I really had to,

because I could fit.

I could move the R8

all the way forward,

put another car back there.

Four, five, six.

I could get eight in here.

We'd have to have,

it'd be really low.

A lift here.

Oh, yeah.

We could do two back there,

and then two in each.

You couldn't walk in here,

but yeah.

No.

Yeah.

The world's biggest

fire hazard,

but you know.

Yeah, well,

it depends on the car.

I mean,

only put new

nice cars in here.

So there you go.

Got a lot of vintage

Volkswagen Beatles in here.

You really,

I mean,

with being said that,

we could just

jack them up to the roof.

That'd be your insulation.

Volkswagen's there.

I know.

I've been looking at that.

You ready to get out of there?

Yeah.

So I've told Theo to sit

and he's been so good.

He's staged.

So he has a place command.

I placed him on a mat

and he's very,

I'm very proud of him

because as the entire time

we've been recording,

he has been placed on the mat

just looking at me.

And now he's giving me

those quite literal

puppy dog eyes of,

please let me go.

Let me go.

So we can wrap it up.

All right, guys.

Well, again,

we want to know

what cars you're looking

at and the cheap.

What would you buy?

And two,

if you have some ideas

with jacks,

let us know.

So yeah,

tell us all about your

jacking.

Yep.

Okay.

For this episode

of the Vans podcast

is always I'm Nick

and I'm Dan

and don't just get there.

Enjoy the drive.

Cheap Cars and Expensive Jacks

About this episode

Volkswagen Bora

Ford Bronco

Ford F150

Toyota Corolla

Hyundai Genesis

Volkswagen Jetta

Ford Mustang

Chevrolet Camaro

Nissan Sentra

Chevrolet Trax

Audi R8

Audi S3

Tesla Model 3

F-150 Raptor

Bronco Raptor

Toyota Land Cruiser

Ford Ranger

Ranger Raptor

Volkswagen Beatles

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