Chinese Brands Are Coming!

Welcome to Driving Home.

Hello.

We're actually driving, not home.

Away from home.

Yeah, away from home,

but maybe later we'll be driving home.

I don't know.

Who knows?

So this one is about something

that is cropping up an awful lot at the moment

in the comments section

because we're doing a lot more Chinese cars.

This is a lot of our on the road.

Chinese brands, I will say that around the charts

because a lot of cars are made in China,

but like Polestar.

Polestar, the new mini.

New mini, for example,

at least until the move over to the UK,

I think that's the plan.

Yeah.

But basically,

forget the manufacturing one about Chinese brands now.

So you've got your,

your JQs and the Amadas and the Changns

and the stuff you're just coming over to try and...

Compete with the UK market.

They're basically making inroads like BYD.

BYD, yeah.

They're sales of rocketed.

I mean, wrong G.

From nothing.

Well, yeah, MG.

They're the OG.

They're the original, aren't they?

Original British named Chinese manufacturer.

Absolutely.

But they do seem to hit a really good price.

Well, for me, MG is the best Chinese brand

in terms of what the market...

Marked innovation.

And yeah, they're having sort of...

Well, look at the prices.

You can't go wrong, can you, MG?

Right.

I think the thing with MG is they know their market.

Yes.

They're not trying to pretend to be a luxury arm,

or they're not trying to be, you know,

they are going for that budget end, aren't they?

And your expectation is there.

Well, I don't know which will have gone out first,

but the MG S5 is arriving today.

Oh, wow.

And we're just obviously in a keyswap with the MG IM...

The M6, yeah, which isn't an MG.

It's not.

It's a premium.

It's a sub-brand.

It's like Audi Voltswagen or something, isn't it?

So, as I understand it,

IM are a different brand.

It's under...

Or by SAXC, which on most things.

It's at the own MG as well, I think.

But ultimately, they're trying to be more premium.

I get the feeling like your JQs and that are also going

for the big luxury, not luxury, Mark.

Yeah, I think the thing is with the JQ,

they do the far-by-far-looking one

that looks a little bit like a Range Rover,

is they're going for that school-run one sort of look, aren't they?

A big, far-by-far-looking car.

Or is MG, like, it's a 20 grand family car?

Well, do you know what?

I think for me, when MG brought out the MG5 estate,

and even though it wasn't the prettiest thing in the world

when it first arrived,

I was like, oh, thank God, someone's done a normal.

Yeah, and the far-by-far-looking one that came out.

Well, there's ZS even.

Yeah, well, yeah, you know, for the price it was sold at.

Yeah, and still...

Well, the MG S5 is that direct replacement for it.

I think you need that.

The difficulty, I think, a lot of brands have come in from China

is when they pitch themselves at a higher price

than a well-known alternative.

The assumption is it's a cheap brand,

because what's Chinese, whether it's fair or not,

is an assumption, isn't it?

You wouldn't pay more for Aldi beans than you would Heinz,

even if they were...

Even if they were genuinely better,

more to produce and better in every way.

You wouldn't not.

There is, let's say we start driving.

Let's start, yeah, you know, home, but not home.

But there is a definite...

When you're going to the, we'll call it premium market,

you pay for the badging part.

Well, you do, yeah.

You definitely do, and I guess the thing is,

not just cars, is it, it's clothing.

Yes.

You know, there's no way you're buying designer clothing

at 20 times the cost of something from George.

Oh.

Oh, well, I've shared that wrong.

And right, under the...

Apologies, guys.

Here we go.

Mute. She's muted.

There we go.

So, yeah, you wouldn't get designer clothing, would you?

20 times more expensive than George

and expect it to be 20 times better.

You're paying for the badge, aren't you?

And I think sometimes, what's happened,

well, not sometimes, what's happening

at the moment for me with the Chinese?

We'll call it the Chinese premium market,

is that they're undercutting the premium market,

the BMWs and so forth.

But, as we kind of mentioned with the IM6,

can you have budget premium?

It doesn't work, does it?

No, because part of it is, it cost me money.

Yeah, essentially, isn't it?

How much did you spend on that top from, I don't know,

boss, I was running 20 quid that.

Instantly, they'll think, oh, it must be good, Ben.

Yeah, yeah.

And you do get a better quality with things like that.

You do, you see that.

Generally, you do.

Generally, you know what I mean?

Generally, yeah.

But ultimately, I don't think it works,

is it, the premium budget doesn't make sense.

Because it's not.

It's not a contradiction.

He's literally that.

He's paying for something luxurious,

but by definition, something that's luxurious

isn't usually cheap, is it?

It's not, not, not brand new.

But that's the thing.

And because the Chinese brand, let's pretend it's,

you know, the Chinese thing doesn't exist.

It's just a new brand to the market.

Whoever it is, if it's new.

Then not gonna.

Then it's a tough one, isn't it?

Unless it's a quarter of a million pound of oats.

It's not going to get any reputation.

I think the only way it works, if it's a new brand,

and it's very expensive, if it's a hypercar.

Yeah, or it's really limited.

It's outrageous.

And then you can sort of justify it, can you?

It's like when Corny's Egg first came to the market,

nobody'd heard of them.

But then you looked at their engineering.

Yeah, and the way they did that.

Exactly.

I think he's, that isn't it?

But with a mass-market luxury, budget luxury car,

you don't have that, do you?

It's a complete contradiction.

And to be fair, it's not just the badge.

The, I think it was something that was perfectly in the IM6.

On the surface, everything looked pretty premium-ish,

yeah, underneath.

I think I had a good analogy for this.

It's like a luxury hotel in Birmingham.

Before you start looking at it, you go,

that's really cheap, is that?

Is that a luxury hotel in Birmingham?

It's just where it is.

And then when you get there, you go, oh yeah.

That's why.

Yeah, well, yeah, because.

It could be the same for Bradford or for any of them.

Not just kicking on Birmingham here.

Anyway, there's not a holiday place.

Yep.

But ultimately, it's one of those where I think

you can tell instantly,

if you've covered the badge up and then stuck,

oh, so I mean, we've been doing this 10 years.

I like to use the consumable car pretty quickly.

We can tell instantly the ride and the handling of a car.

Oh, we've been, if it's of a BMW level,

we'll call it, or Mercedes.

You know, that European being developed for decades,

really good engineering.

You know, the suspension's been fettled.

It's genuinely good, isn't it?

Only people who enjoy their cars

will kind of really understand all you're talking about.

But you can tell when you're in a BMW doing 150 on the art barn.

They're in a BMW.

And whereas if you get one of these brands

we're talking about doing a similar thing,

it's snowing.

Yeah, I just feel, oh, it feels dangerous.

Well, the IM6 had a tonne of power, unnecessary power.

Yeah, over 700 bhp in a large, heavy SUV.

Where the brakes were just perfect.

Brakes?

Yeah, yeah.

There were a couple of points where I braked

and that wasn't particularly going that fast.

And I was genuinely...

Shut!

With how little response there was from the...

Because there's such instant response

on the accelerator pedal.

Oh, yeah, you expect the sort of...

In the cabin.

Oh, do you?

And the suspension as well,

that was really leany and wallowy.

It's two and a half tonne SUV.

I mean, the thing is that got me thinking though,

I wonder if it's...

Is it just the fact that they're set up more

for the Eastern market?

Whether, whereas BMW and Mercedes

have been designing cars for the European market

for 100 years with Mercedes,

then they know their market,

they know what they like.

The Chinese are going,

well, do we just give them something

that we think they like?

Do you think there was an R&D?

Well, or you just hire a few people

that used to work for,

these are the companies in you.

Oh, well, the thing is that

Hyundai did that

and did a really good job of that.

Oh, yeah, they got the...

Mr. M's, Chris, was it?

I can't remember his name.

But basically, yeah, he was the...

He was the responsible for the M division.

Yeah, going through really good ones years ago.

And then look what he did with Hyundai.

He did the I20N, the I30N, the IONIQ 5N.

And now the IONIQ 6N has been born from...

He's left now, I think, but ultimately...

They bought that then?

Yeah, he said, no, no, it has to be a manual gearbox.

No, no, we have to do this on the suspension, no, no.

So effectively, when we're not compromising on

not so much cost, but this is what it has to be...

To be full.

Limits like this.

Yeah, we have to have one.

And that carried across.

They are very well received

from anybody that's owned them and the journalists.

It's just the only issue they have, are badges.

You find people that buy like an IONIQ...

Sorry, an I30N will keep them.

Yeah, because there's not many of that type around it.

No, you don't see people changing eyes with them.

I see the same people driving the same cars year after year.

That's the perfect analogy, really,

because Kia Hyundai Group, for me...

It's dead tender blue.

Yeah, 10 years ago is where a lot of the Chinese brands are now.

Yeah.

They haven't quite figured it out.

They haven't quite got there.

And let's face it, 10 years...

Turn it down to the parts where they start with.

Yeah, and even 10 years ago,

even if we just stick with EVs,

there was nothing coming out of China that was in point here anyway.

And now look what they're doing.

They're trying to... Yeah, they're basically going,

we've got loads of stuff here that you might like.

And they're getting better and better to the point

where in another, what, fact, I'll say 10 years time, BMW...

I would be cropping this out on parity, yeah.

I would say so.

It's just...

I think with Soviet life, we go back to the budget luxury stuff.

It is just... Sometimes it's the materials.

Yeah, it's just...

That isn't it. You could blindfold me, put me in the car,

take the badges out, and I go...

This isn't unexpected.

I think this is a Chinese interior.

Well, for example, I think it's a sheet,

it's like a spreadsheet sort of problem,

because they'll go, right, what do we need, guys?

We're making a brand new premium car for the European market.

Yeah.

But on a budget, because in China, obviously...

Well, the IM6, I think, is like 20, 20-odd grand in China,

and it's 40-odd here.

The price, yeah.

And there's a lot of reasons for that,

chiefly being like import, duties, taxes, all that sort of stuff.

It's not the manufacturing.

Do you have it?

They don't pocket in twice.

No, no, no.

And then there's the distributor, of course,

who has to take his cut.

So there's many reasons, but ultimately,

that is a car that sells the 20-odd grand elsewhere,

equivalent for 40-odd here.

Yeah.

Whereas in Germany, you've got a...

What, 35 grand car sold for 40 grand here?

Yeah, it's much much closer to what you're paying for.

And that's part of the problem.

And the other one is, they go, right, spreadsheets.

Right, we need leather.

OK, so they just go get leather.

Whereas Audi would probably say,

right, let's go for at least the middle ground leather.

Yeah, yeah.

And maybe it's an optional, the top-end leather.

I think sometimes it almost feels like a part's being special,

sometimes.

Let this like just...

We've got leather seats.

All right, we've got some in stock.

We'll just use those ones.

We'll put them in.

Yeah, but there's so many different grades of everything

from suspension to leather.

To leather.

Pleather to the...

The soft sticks.

Yeah, the soft stuff that...

Soft middle ground.

You know, it's like, you know, a Tesla that...

We're starting a Tesla right now,

and this is what I would call mid...

Yeah, mid-leather.

Yeah, yeah.

So there's different grades.

I always think that the cheaper brands,

not just Chinese ones.

No, no, no.

A bit clear.

Put in the minimum requirement.

It's like a modern house.

Well, the Insta.

Yeah.

The interior on that was minimal and cheap, but expected.

Because it was a cheap car.

Yeah.

And it's like, we're not going to even try and put

cheap leather in here.

We'll just give you a good cloth.

Yeah.

Well, why not?

And but that's the thing.

If you're like...

They enjoy touching that cloth.

You enjoy touching too many things.

But ultimately, I think that you can't just get away.

We've put in something in that's expected.

It has to be a certain grade.

It does, yeah.

And I often think it's like,

what's the minimum we can get away with in the cheap...

In a budget premium brand?

Like a brand new house that's built

is the smallest you can get away

with calling it on the bedroom.

Yeah.

And he's like, well, it's a bedroom,

but he's not what I call a premium house.

It's one of them where you get the bedding.

Yeah. And you go, oh, brilliant.

I've got a bit of room to walk around.

And you've got enough furniture in it.

Yeah.

And you put your furniture in,

and you go, I can't get in the bed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You say essentially, yeah.

They always do that.

Or they always put one of those,

where is it like one and a half size beddings

that looks like a good old...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Half of the bedding.

But that's the thing, isn't it?

It's what can we get away with mentality?

I think it's up to a budget.

Yeah.

Now, that might be because a Chinese brand that said,

we can genuinely match BMW for their interior,

but no one would buy a £60,000 brand new to the market brand,

whether it's from China or...

When you can buy a BMW, you're going to say it's not.

Maybe that's the problem.

The Polestar's a funny one.

He was never welcome to that layer.

Because that is Chinese, not a budget.

And on.

Yeah.

I don't know what I need.

Well, let's stick with Polestar for a second.

I don't know where it starts and ends,

because it's Geely.

Yeah.

Which means that the new Geely's coming out,

now they've launched in the UK.

Are they just Polestar's rebrand?

That might be a good bag.

Yeah.

But is it like, was it Saab,

owned at the end by GM?

Yeah.

But it was a Saab.

You know, they did what they wanted to with that.

They kept getting told off by the GM,

because GM would give them a sat-nav and Saab would just go,

we're going to design one up from this.

No, no, it's not good enough for doing this.

So it's like 75% of the different car.

Is that Polestar, where they've got free reign,

but they have to use certain parts bins?

Or is it, you know...

Is the Polestar still not designed in Europe?

And then I think it will.

A bit like the iPhone, designed in California.

Yes.

Made in China.

And I don't have any problem with that,

because most stuff, including BMWs,

including Audi's and others,

are manufactured in China.

There's nothing wrong with manufacturing in another country.

I think the thing is, you could probably safely say

that there's very little in terms of electronics

that haven't got something in it that has come from China.

Well, yeah.

I mean, we get a lot of this a lot in the comments, don't we?

I won't buy anything from China because of the regime.

And I can't argue with that.

But ultimately, most of what's in your house probably...

It has something in it as well.

...from China.

So you couldn't really live if you cut it out your life.

And again, it's easy to say something that it's hard to do.

So we're leaving politics out of this discussion.

It's a different thing entirely, because...

You just do cars.

Yeah, and let's face it, there's some people saying,

oh, we should ban everything American because of Trump.

Can't argue with it, and Musk.

But again, we hate it too politically.

That's for a different podcast.

That's a different podcast, yeah.

But no, I think that's the problem with it.

You can't have a premium Chinese brand

until it's earned that.

So therefore, they have to go for the budget end

to get people to go into it.

Going back to the Koreans again with Genesis.

Yeah.

I think the thing is, if you are going for that

no-compromise luxury, is you need to stick to your guns.

You need to go for the no-compromise luxury

and look at small numbers to start with.

Yeah, control them.

Let's face it, you have to lose money for a long time

to then get a reputation.

Exactly, it's the reputation, it's the sponsoring of sports

and stuff like that.

And they did a lot of golf tournaments.

Which probably, you know, who their market is.

Yep.

You know, I would say their market is probably what?

Dentists and architects.

Yeah, essentially.

So, you know, they're not quite there yet, am I, for me,

as in the Chinese blobs, in terms of the quality.

But what I will say is, if I look at what

the first came on the market, originally, you know,

and then look what we've got to now.

I mean, it's a jump, isn't it, in such a short time.

And a lot of it is just like, you know,

it's just a matter of sourcing the right materials

and getting into that European mindset

of what we expect at what price.

Yeah.

I'll just say, well, yeah, it's a budget luxury brand.

But it's a third cheaper than the next competitive from Europe.

But then that, in itself, is a bit,

how can you have budget-free...

Well, you've just gone so often yet.

I think the thing is, sometimes, I mean,

when we had the IM6, it was when my neighbours came to look at it.

And they'd just seen it online.

I've seen pictures of this, it looks really nice

in the other city, because, oh, hmm...

You want that quite, quite how we thought it would.

It looks a lot better, is on pictures, yeah.

Yeah, and again, that's that.

It comes with leather, tick.

It comes with this, tick.

But then when you get into the...

It's like buying a cheap meal or a cheap, you know,

a cake or something like that.

Yeah, if you get a donut from Greg's, it's cheap and it's all right.

If you get a donut from, like, a proper bakery...

Yeah, it's a different level, a little tired with Lillia.

And it's that sort of thing, as we said before.

You're just not getting that level of developer extra.

They haven't learned from me being out in the wild

and going, actually, people...

Yeah, like this new MGS5 that we're getting.

People complained with the MG4 that all the heater controls

were in the touchscreen.

Yeah, well, yeah, cool.

So they've learned, yeah.

As well the manufacturers do as well, not just Chinese.

Yeah, it's everybody, look at it.

It's Volkswagen with the haptic feedback.

Well, yeah.

And they've put buttons back in.

Try something else and it didn't work.

But that's the thing.

A lot of these manufacturers like Volkswagen

and the German stuff and whatnot,

they've had decades to learn from mistakes.

Oh, yeah.

The Chinese brands haven't had that yet at all in Europe.

So therefore...

It's new to them.

It is new to them and sometimes they'll...

They need to get us...

We'd be happily give us a car, you know.

We'll charge a reasonable amount.

And do a home car.

Well, sometimes it's like you get a home car,

isn't it, or some other stuff, boys?

Well, no, it's one of those where I think, again, in 10 years,

it'll be only the batch that separates the BMW

from some of the other new brands.

Because technically, they're probably going to be on par by then.

Yeah.

They're not going to be doing the M series either,

or the 911 that's been evolutionary for decades.

Oh, no.

I don't think they've got that, have they?

You know what?

They don't have any heritage?

No, this is true.

And that's the thing, isn't it?

How many people buy an M car because it's an M car?

Without even caring what the car's like?

You know what, though?

Is you know whatever M car you're going to get.

It's going to be good.

Yes.

Even if it was considered the least good of the range.

You know, it's still going to be very, very good.

Well, it's like the Indio M5.

Oh, the hybrid.

Yeah, it's going to stick in it for its weight.

But as our Chris Harris review it,

he's like, I can't argue with its performance and its handling.

Yep.

And they know what they're doing.

They know what they're doing because you've got.

Knowledge is a big, big thing.

Anyone look?

Yeah.

The weight of that, how it darts around.

And how it feels, yeah.

And if we go to different things,

if you've got someone who's worked 20, 30 years in an industry

or a team, that's a massive advantage.

Look, it was Adrian Mewi with F1.

And he did the, I think it's Mewi.

The guy that did the F1 Red Bull car,

that dominated for a few years,

and now works for, I think, Aston Martin or someone.

Basically, the general consensus was that

he was the guy that led the developer of a car

that dominated for a few years.

And therefore, his knowledge or maybe his leadership,

whatever he is.

He's got the ingredients, yeah, in spot.

So imagine that in developing a car.

Yeah.

If he worked for a new brand,

they're going to be five years ahead of someone

that's just trying to do it and fumble the way through.

Well, you get to hear about stories, don't you,

about the developers and designers of cars

and just how many have worked for different brands.

And once you know who's designed what car, you go,

oh, yeah, I can see.

Like a full year round.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's what, no, it's, for me now,

I would pitch in these, the new Chinese brands

that we're talking about.

Yeah, as closer to Ford than in Ford and Vauxhall.

Than anyone else.

I think we hit the nail on there earlier when we said

it was like when Kia first came to the country.

Yeah.

Whether it was just a budget brand.

They were, yeah, reliable.

Good warranty.

I think the warranty more than anything,

they were reasonably reliable, weren't they?

I don't think they're anything like they are now.

And then 20 years later,

they haven't got that yet,

but they're going to get a really good reputation

for reliability, solid, you know,

the practical selling tons.

Yeah.

To keep you narrow.

What are you talking about?

I mean, is there a bad one that we've reviewed?

In EV, well, not.

In terms of who it's aimed at, anyway.

No, I don't think we ever went to the Hyundai driving day.

Oh, yeah.

I didn't drive a bad car there.

Even the FEVs and the model of the family cars

are like, I can see the point.

If you need a FEV or you want a FEV

or you need a big SUV, for who it's aimed at,

this is really cool.

Yeah, and pricing was there.

Yep.

I guess some manufacturers are content

with just being like...

Meant Street, yeah.

And this is one thing I'm annoyed with, with Skoda.

Yeah.

They were basically, I think, at the perfect price position,

at the perfect expectation level.

So we're going back to like relaunch of Skoda, of course.

Yeah.

You know, like the early 2000s, late 2000s.

I got a 2008 Octavia VRS.

And it was, I think, near peak.

Maybe the one after that.

I had a Marik 1 VRS.

I think you could only choose a colour with that.

Yeah.

And I'm not saying that the newer cars

are better than those, they are.

But look at the price drop.

They're trying to be another Volkswagen.

They're trying to elevate the brand.

There's nothing wrong with being in that mainstream position.

The trouble for me is when Skoda went

from having a handful of options to fully customisable,

and you can spend, you know, £10,000 on options,

just getting it to where you want it.

How much is a brand new VRS Octavia now?

I would not want to say.

I bet it's 40s, isn't it?

I bet it's more.

And you think it could be Golf GTI, territory?

I'd just get a Golf GTI.

Well, yeah, because even though it might be better...

Bigger, more, you know.

It's a Skoda versus a Volkswagen.

What is wrong with them?

And manufacturers do this a lot, don't they?

They pick, you know, an entry,

and then they try and go,

let's try and make ourselves better in people's eyes.

Let's try and become freemium almost.

Let's expand the range so we can offer an executive.

The Skoda Superb, the very first one,

it give you loads of luxury, but at a premium price.

And they weren't pretending to be anything else, were they?

Well, you could tell, couldn't you?

It was nice, but it was, shall we say, minimal luxury.

So you didn't get extra bells and whistles,

but what was in there was really nice.

And it was solid and reliable.

I mean, you know, they had the backing of the Volkswagen group,

which helps.

But what's wrong with just being Aster?

Why try and be Max Suspensers?

Yeah, you know.

Other things I'd say is Aldi worked by starting

just by putting, like, the pallets full of food on the shop floor,

and people picked them up from there rather than stacking the shelves.

I worked at Netto.

Wow, every year.

Haven't we had any people remember Netto?

Well, they danced to bite them in the end.

I think it was, but I wasn't that interested to work it.

But essentially, all we did, he'd take the pallets off.

And my job, apart from, you know, emptying the bloody wagons and that,

I mean, I got quite both of that.

When you're taking a full pallet's worth of three litre bottles of coke,

that were 15p each, you know, it was like a workout every weekend.

This is when we were at school, obviously.

And what we had to do is just take the plastic off

and then put the...

You know, so imagine you're doing beans.

Yeah, yeah.

So I got a knife and went,

poom, poom, put a thing,

take the plastic off and put it on the shelf.

So the cardboard with lots of bits of...

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then you just kept on stacking.

So all we were doing was removing the plastic sheeting there.

Yeah.

But again, people went in there and didn't care that it didn't look as...

Like, Sains-Bresau.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because it's just, it was just a wear-out, really.

Yeah, like cash and carry.

But it was really cheap.

I mean, we're going back a bit in time,

granted, probably to what, the year 1998 when we were working there.

So prices are different now, obviously.

But I could buy, because I did this just for giggles sometimes,

an entire loaf of bread for 15p of an entire pack of ham.

Basically, I could make a sandwich for me for like a pound 10.

Yeah.

With multiple ingredients, but have enough leftover.

Do that.

For about another 30 sandwiches.

Yeah, because you were getting a loaf of bread for 15p.

I remember seeing it, I can picture it in my head now.

And that people liked it, because there was no pretentiousness.

They're not expecting anything other than what you're going to eat.

I think that says, isn't it?

I think the thing is, if you have that experience with Neto or Aldi,

and it is more expensive than Max and Spencer's food, or something like that.

Or as.

Yeah, it's like, you know, people are going to go,

hang on a minute.

Or you don't even have to do that.

If it was like a bit cheaper than Max and Spencer's, you say,

you know what, I'm just going to go on Max and Spencer's.

Exactly.

Yeah.

For that little extra, it's worth it.

It's value, isn't it?

And at the moment, a lot of Chinese manufacturers brand new anyway.

There's just a lot of value.

The value's not quite there.

I don't think so.

MG is, because they're at the bottom end.

Well, MG know the market.

I'm worrying about a premium budget.

I think MG know their market.

Well, this MG S5, and I don't think we're giving anything away.

The top spec version of that with the long range battery, the trophy.

We've found brand new, not pre-registered for 22 grand.

And it's a family size car with a six-

Look at that.

I'm an Insta.

I mean, they can put a different car as that.

If you look at the value you get, it's 22 grand.

Yeah.

And it's that's ridiculous.

So it doesn't really matter if it has some flaws.

Because look at the price.

I mean, the thing is for me, that's going to have to drive terribly.

There's going to have to be a fatal flaw.

Whereas the IM6 starting shop around price at 44 grand for the long range.

I'm like, hang on, hang on.

That's four grand more.

Get two MGs.

Yeah.

And look what you can get for just under four.

You know, eight grand more than a Renault CD.

The guy's got a hundred kilowatt battery.

Think of the range.

Yeah, bro, wouldn't you?

Bature sizes and material is a hit.

It's what you do with it.

Range.

Yeah, it's like other things.

That's your size is immaterial.

It's what you do with it that counts.

That sounds familiar to something I hear a lot.

Yeah, I'll say a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But but no, it's a matter of time.

But right now, today, 2025, 26.

The Chinese manufacturers should, for me, either be budget

or low volume premium.

But it needs to be premium.

People get in it and go, oh, however, people like you,

the JQs and the BYDs, the higher end version,

like the BYD sales, that, relatively speaking,

very good sales.

So what do we know?

Well, I think I probably very good sales.

I think people either getting a huge discount.

Come on, you can't.

And yeah, and it's the spec sheet.

Do you know, I'd love to know.

This is never a word for the medium of radio.

Just what I don't have a company car scheme at my work.

But what is on your company car scheme?

I took a couple of people.

Can you know?

Well, it's Salo Sacrifice.

You put your wage in, and it basically says,

this is how much you will lose off your wage.

So we'll have to have a look on that.

I wonder if it is just a lot of BYDs and a lot of.

No, no, it's everything.

Is it everything?

Paul Star 4, 520 odd quid I can get over three years

at 10,000 miles per hour.

I mean, that just seems like an absolute bargain to me.

I think that's a lot of money.

A particular offer at the moment.

But yeah, in fact, there's someone that I,

OK, let's sit next to him who's literally ordered that.

Well, why wouldn't you?

And do you know why he's ordered that?

Like over, like, because I said,

why do you buy this or this or even a used Paul Star 4?

There's not 60, 70 grand.

There's like four.

You know, basically the value is in the used market.

And he went, well, I have a rather large student loan.

I want to say large.

I've come the wrong way.

And when I say large, we're talking,

I don't think you mind saying this,

because no one knows who we're talking about.

60 odd grand.

60 grand, wow.

And that basically means that when he earns

over a certain amount, you start paying, obviously, that.

Yep.

So if he gets a salary sacrifice scheme,

that means he doesn't, he gets a cab,

but he doesn't pay his loan back.

So he's like, that's why he's doing it,

because he comes off his wage.

That's free.

So he's saving how he can pay a loan back.

He's got Jimmy Carr, is it?

But it's like, well, that's not a bad idea.

So, you know, there are other options, but 520 odd quid.

You know, we need to do a podcast on salary sacrifice scheme.

So I have to get the prices and talk about that.

But there are tiny manufacturers on there, absolutely.

But at the moment, the only ones,

and we have this with a BYD seal, didn't we?

Oh, it's really cheap to lease compared to,

like Tesla and something like that and other competitors.

But not compared to some other.

Only because they're lowballing it.

Yeah.

They're willing to lose money to gain entry into the market.

That tells me one thing.

You are getting a car.

That isn't worth that much.

A budget car, that's a budget car, you know,

but it's pretending to be a bit more premium.

What's that thing of you saying it was in China

that sells for 22?

It was something like that.

If you do the exchange rate thing,

I know it's not a great way of doing it,

but if it's sold over here for low 30s,

you know, I, as it froze,

I have a screen wash that looks like it's frozen in this,

but I haven't topped this up yet.

So it could be pure water.

It could be.

Sorry, guys, we are driving.

We could stop and get some water.

It's far over it because a co-op will worry about that there.

Yeah. Right.

So yeah, is that sold in the UK with low 30s, 32, 32, 33?

Well, that's what we said with the BYD seal.

Going, that's actually not bad.

It's not as good as some of the competitors

that are around us, more expensive,

but they're on the 5,000 mag.

But it's a lot less in you are getting this extra

and this extra that they don't offer.

Well, that was my problem with the BYD seal.

They're charging more than a Tesla, let's say,

just because it's a common manufacturer.

Charging more than the Tesla, and it's not as good.

I'm quite proud.

It did have a 3.7 sticker on the back, though.

It's obsession of getting to 60.

That's the thing, isn't it?

You look at the spec sheet, I think,

which is what you do on a company car,

and then you go, boy, 3.7 seconds to 60.

It's got a massive battery.

It's got, you know, the infotainment system

that does this in multi-speaker, premium audio.

Do you know what I think it is?

People look at an electric car like they're buying a laptop.

Yeah. And sometimes it's not some of the components.

Yeah, but you've got a seller on.

Yeah, nobody look, it's 2.6 gig.

Yeah. It's a seller on, but it's 2.6 gig.

In fact, no, I'll go for this one.

This is a 3 gig one.

Would it, dog, you know what?

Just buy what you want.

Okay. Yeah, that's not a bad analogy, really,

is it? It's computer stuff.

It's not all about the clock speed.

It's not all about the numbers.

You wouldn't buy a petrol engine car

based purely on the size of the engine,

because that's completely irrelevant nowadays.

Well, yeah.

You know, a four-liter engine doesn't mean

it's got more power than a two-liter engine

with a turbo on it, or?

Well, yeah, if you've got a driver.

A car in America with a four-liter

or a five-liter V8 or something, anything.

It's got less power than my two-liter turbo.

Exactly.

It doesn't sound...

No.

It sounds better, but...

So, they're basically the...

What do we call them?

Budget premium brands, not just Chinese now,

they're effectively a spec sheet.

Yeah, that's why they're going to 750bhp.

Because it's a talking point, isn't it?

I guess it does get them on reviews.

I wonder how many people nowadays

test-drive a car before buying it,

as well, if it's a company car.

Is there that opportunity?

I bet there's less than I used to be, doesn't it?

Well, we're company cars.

I bet a lot of people just go...

And I've had this a lot from, you know,

the loads of people, oh, there's a guy who works...

He watches you.

He's getting a company car.

He's got a choice between...

Oh, yeah, I don't know!

The i4 and the Polestar have two.

That was one I had recently.

Oh, what a decision, they're both good.

Yeah, and a bit of a scrub, to be honest.

Whatever he prefers, because, like, it's it.

They're both good.

Yeah.

Oh, he likes the Polestar.

We'll get a lot of that.

He's made his decision, then.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So what I wanted to know is,

is there anything really wrong with the Polestar?

There's either of them.

Before I go for the other one.

So, no, it...

Again, they'll get there, but at the moment...

I'm sorry, you can tell.

I know there's a lot of people that,

on the BYD seal comment section.

Clearly, you won't...

Yeah, yeah.

Who are like,

Oh, no, no, what do you mean?

It's overpriced.

Well, I think the thing is,

people want to justify why they're half-warmed, aren't they?

And this is just our opinion.

We're not saying we're right.

Well...

Well, if you like yours,

what does our opinion matter?

It doesn't matter.

It's just two guys talking about a car.

Yep.

But they disagree with us.

I would like to think,

as we proved on that video,

that I think a lot of people skipped anyway,

you could buy a pre-registered one

for £13,000 less,

which is way beyond typical

depreciation or pre-registered

reduction.

That is a £35,000 car.

It's out for £48,000.

Yeah.

That tells me everything I need to know.

The cheapest model 3 I found

was £30,000,

and instead of £40,000.

Yeah.

But that was 17,000 miles,

and 9,000 miles.

That had been you.

It was a pre-registered car.

It was you.

Yeah.

And that was still on a 10 grand drop

instead of 1340.

So it goes to show you.

Yeah.

So the overpriced thing,

I don't mind,

because, like you say,

if you're least who cares,

that was another common one.

But you're not paying luxury car tax

because of that list price.

Yeah.

That's £525 a year.

I think, again, we can move them.

It bugs me in you, this, doesn't it?

They could have brought that in at 39,

995.

Yeah.

Or even we said in the video,

take a few things off.

Yeah.

Make a real-wheel-drive only version

and take a few specs off

to get under 40 grand.

I mean, it seems to have worked

for other manufacturers.

Well, there's no...

It's quite obvious why there is

a standard-range Model 3

for 39, 999 or whatever it is.

I can't think of one,

because he's under there.

Because it saves you

nearly two and a half grand

over five years.

It's...

That's a lot.

It is, yeah.

Yeah.

No matter how you massage that in,

whether that's your least deal

or your pain that yourself,

you know, because it's a privately-owned vehicle.

That's 35 quid a month, I think,

or something like that.

35 quid a month.

A bit of a Yorkshire.

That's quite a lot, isn't it?

Well, when we're looking at the tax

of cars now,

he's come from 0 to 190 quid.

Add another 420 odd onto that.

Also, you're paying 600 odd quid

for a BYD.

How much are you paying

for your 3.2-litre TT here?

380.

Yeah.

For a 3.2-litre, you know,

it's a 20-year-old car.

I mean, that puts it into perspective,

really, doesn't it?

Yeah.

So I do have a bit of a beef with cars

that are over 40 grand when,

clearly, they're not or they shouldn't be.

Yeah.

And I don't mind some of the rate.

You know, just like one version.

So the IM-5 is just under 40 grand.

Yeah, yeah.

The IM-6, sorry,

starts at 40...

What do you say?

45, 46.

So they've done that

to separate the IM-5 from the 6.

Yeah.

But that just makes the 6 that much more expensive.

It does in reality, doesn't it?

Compared to the entry-level.

Of the IM-5.

Yeah, hidden costs.

And the IM-5 comes with a smaller battery version,

to get it under that price bracket.

But the IM-6 doesn't, bigger only.

I guess the thing is, if the IM-6 had a smaller battery,

could you actually drive anywhere?

Well, cos it's such a poor...

A poll of the environment would, yeah.

The inefficiency.

Well, that's what I mean, again.

The concentrating on the spec sheet, on the...

The headlines.

Yeah, yeah.

Headland figures.

750bhp, guys.

Wow!

We're not telling you it does 220 miles

from a 100 kWh battery.

Because that's all you're worried...

That's all you're thinking about now,

and that's all you're seeing.

750bhp.

Massive there, in red.

And it is impressive.

Yeah.

Charging speed.

390.

That's impressive.

Very impressive.

It's the fastest in the world.

Yep.

But...

That's a typical hour.

Yeah, exactly.

Now, that's good, but it's easy to have a fast motor in an EV.

And it's easy to have...

And in fact, no, I will say,

Chinese manufacturers have good battery technology.

They really do, yeah.

So, they, you know...

But use that.

Make it efficient.

Make BMWs look ridiculous that inefficient.

And then you're beating them at something.

I think what they tend to go for is the Swiss Army knife.

And we all know it's...

The Swiss Army knife is alright,

but it's better to have a separate tool for each thing.

It is.

So, for me, if they're concentrated on just two items,

you know, economy and luxury,

or something like that,

or performance and luxury,

it seems to want to concentrate on everything,

but never nail down anything really well.

Well, let's use that 750.

I know, we're talking about the IM6,

because we've just done it.

So, it's going back to the 80.

So, 750 brake horsepower.

And let's compare that against an equivalent BMW,

which would be more expensive.

But in terms of...

It's got more power than a BMW,

iX1 or wherever it might be, you know.

Yeah, the big SUV.

Yeah, but the BMW will be quicker.

Yeah, offline.

It's just that's got a bigger number.

Yeah, it means nothing in the whole grand scheme.

Whereas, if they could say,

we're getting 3.5 miles per kilowatt hour out of our car,

BMW will get 2.4.

Yeah.

Then I'm like,

oh, okay, there's got some engineering behind that.

It's so easy to do the power.

And that's it.

It's the...

Is it everything else?

It's a shortcut.

It is, yeah, yeah.

That's the word I'm looking for.

It's a shortcut to make things look impressive.

It's a Vauxhall Insignia VXR.

Yeah.

It could put the power down.

It just bonkers.

It was ridiculous.

It spun its wheels all the time.

And it couldn't go on it.

Yeah, well, that's it, isn't it?

Yeah.

MG 4X power.

The nauseator.

Yeah.

That's straight in the straight...

The quick in the straight line only.

The thing for me, what they missed on that is,

they've got it in really cheap,

but why not do a performance pack at five grand

that gives you dits, coil overs,

something like that,

proper racing seats, Brembo's.

Which is what Hyundai did with the N range.

Yeah.

So you're going, oh, well, it costs five,

but it's quite a bit more,

but my god does it drive.

Well, can you imagine?

We had a lot of the cow-wow type drag races

with the NG4, didn't we?

Yeah.

Against like a Lamborghini or something,

silly like that.

And they're like, wow, that's quite cool.

Imagine if you could do that rounder track,

you'd keep up with like a Porsche Boxster X.

Oh, yeah, really?

Then all of a sudden,

you would get some enthusiasts involved

that go, ooh, I might have a go.

It'll just go quick in the straight line,

and that's it.

And that sums up a premium budget manufacturer.

Whether it's for luxury cars, fast cars or whatever,

the seats are not as nice as a premium seat.

They're just, it's a cheap gaming chair.

Do you know when you go on Amazon

and you see 50 chairs,

gaming chairs with speakers in the...

Built-in, yeah.

It's a woofer.

With the USB charging parts on it.

A meme you've never heard of.

Yep.

And you think, all right,

they look like a comfortable chair,

but you're sitting there.

I mean, you can tell instantly.

You nearly go through it.

Yeah.

It's bad, and it's not ergonomically designed.

And that, again, is the same thing.

It's development and ultimate, the cost.

You have to pay for knowledge.

Yeah, for decades of development.

So, again...

Look at that.

That's something that I'm just thinking of seats.

Was the MG...

Oh, is it the Roadster?

The Cyberster?

Oh, the Cyberster.

When you sat so high up,

you're permanently getting like your hair blown.

And it was all...

And I'm not tall, and yet I'm touching the bloody roof

when the roof was up.

I was nearly touching the roof.

And again, that's just the seat.

It could change the seat,

and you probably would be all right in that.

They're the little things out there that'll have gone...

We haven't got a lot of headroom here.

Oh, well...

We've built it now.

Whereas, you know, like you get a manufacturer like Lexus

who go after years of development.

It's not good enough.

Scrap it.

Yeah.

Let's do it again.

Now, granted, you have to make the numbers add up.

Well, this year.

So, not everyone can do the investment, though it is.

But I just stick with your strengths.

I think that's the problem, isn't it?

You're good at making something cheap.

So, it makes me something cheap.

And then when you get developed to the point of

get a brand on par with someone else.

Yeah.

Naturally, we will elevate the brand for you

because we'll drive you good.

This is really good, but it's cheap.

Is it a bit like respect in that it's earned, not given?

Essentially, yeah.

And we're talking actual respect here, not like respect.

Yeah, respect in it, cosy.

Like that.

That was a...

I had a great impression of...

How about you speak, isn't it?

Well, to be fair, that's how they used to speak

when we were at school.

Yeah, I don't know what to speak like now.

That was vanilla rice.

Yeah, what do we speak like that?

Blood.

And they used the numbers 6 and 7 for something.

Basically, the words we used when we were at school,

which weren't far from that,

were much better than the words that...

We could use the number 69, right, and all of us giggle.

They use 6 and 7 now, and that's the same sort of giggle-ness.

What?

I don't think it's a thing yet, yeah.

6 and 7?

Yeah.

You have to explain that to me.

I don't really understand either.

But you say 6 and 7 to, you know,

your child in secondary school, and they're laughing.

I mean, I think it's a naughty number now.

Really?

Yeah.

Hang on, a 6 and a 7?

Don't picture it like people.

I don't think...

I'd maybe do it with a...

I've got...

Why change something that was already perfect?

69, dude!

Exactly.

Ah, no.

Let me know if you get that reference in the comments section.

You must have kids.

That's a podcast in itself, isn't it?

Kid talk.

Phrases that don't make any sense anymore.

Yep.

And why today's generation is rubbish?

Exactly.

And our generation would by far the best.

Peak?

Peak to the 80s and 90s, I'm sorry.

Best music?

Absolutely.

Yeah, said that before at all.

So...

Showing us age.

But where are we at, anyway?

On time.

We are at...

45.

I think that's a good time to relay it.

So, for those that are watching this on the YouTube driving a home channel,

obviously it sees a few to comment.

Do you agree with what we've said?

Basically give us your opinions on whether you think that you can have budget premium.

Is that a thing?

Should it be a thing?

It's like a stereo from Curries that's got 250 watts per RMS.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And then you get it home and you put it in Mexico like a boat or something like that.

Ah, yes, yes.

Again, spec sheet doesn't mean premium, does it?

No, it was like Goodman's, wasn't it?

Alba.

Yeah, Tandy's own brand.

Tandy.

So, yeah, do you agree what we just said?

Have you got one of these cars and you thought it was going to be better than it is in terms of the details now?

Or have you said, look, I've got it.

I don't mind it.

I guess the thing is it may split people into two of this.

If you bought it yourself with your own money.

You're not going to...

Oh, it's a company car.

If it's a company car, you don't.

It's going to go back.

Who cares?

I've got another theory as well, which I genuinely believe fits.

If you're driving petrol cars and then you go for a company car comes up and you've got...

Let's say you've got an Octavia and a company car comes up and you get into a BYD seal.

For the first time in EV?

Yeah, for the fact it's an EV with the refinement and the quietness that you get with it and the instant talk.

Yeah.

And the fact that it's easy to make it really fast in a straight line.

You go from a, let's say an Octavia to a BYD seal.

Oh, you're going to think it's day and night.

It's going to be the best car you've ever driven or owned or whatever.

Whereas when you've driven all of the EVs, that's when you suddenly go, actually, there's a big difference between these.

There is.

So I think if it's your first EV...

I think you're going to love it.

You're going to love it, regardless.

Yeah.

And maybe that's a way of into the market for a lot of the BYDs and so forth.

Is your first car, first electric car?

Well, people tend to have a bit of loyalty with the car that they really like.

If they have a good experience with it.

Exactly.

So if they go, this is brilliant compared to anything I've owned previously.

Because I've never owned or inserted other brand of EV.

Then, yeah, and I think that's a big part of it as well.

If it's your first, you will like it.

Then if I stick you in a BMW i4, especially if you're vaguely into your cars, you'll then go,

but yeah, all right, I can see the difference.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think you're right.

I think you're right.

So anyway, let's let us know.

If you're on Spotify, apparently you can make comments on Spotify and podcasts now.

We have to, how do we get them?

We'd have to log in Spotify.

You can, no, no, you can see it if you go on to like the comments section of a podcast.

I've never done it myself, but...

We'd have to go back and look at that on Spotify.

Yeah.

The best way of doing it is going onto the Driving Home YouTube channel and putting a comment in there.

Because I'm genuinely curious to know who's listening to this on what?

Yeah.

Is it on YouTube?

Is it on Spotify?

Is it on Apple podcasts?

Like, do you listen to it or do you watch it?

People watch this?

Well, yeah.

Yeah.

And from what I understand, I spoke to a couple of people that said they just kind of put

it on, so they're listening to it.

Yeah.

But they'll be up there.

Right, right, right, yeah.

And let's face it, how many podcasts now do people watch on YouTube?

True.

I do.

Yep.

You know, like if someone's getting interviewed.

Then your missus comes in and we're watching these two guys on the TV.

Yeah.

They're just talking.

What are they doing?

Why are you not listening to that?

Yeah.

So, yeah, we really need to know, because we are putting some effort into this now, so

we want to know where the strengths are.

Yeah, this is and so forth.

So thanks for listening, watching whatever you've done, and we'll see you soon, I guess.

You will?

See you later.

Not sponsored by Michelin either.

No, no, no.

Not sponsored by Michelin.

Oh, word.

The word.

Oh, God, we nearly forgot, are we?

Yeah, what food is this?

No, no, that's the wrong one.

No, no.

So, yes, for those that are unfamiliar and new to driving home, Harry always ends a podcast

with the final word or words, no more than two.

And today's, or rather this week's podcast, the final words are, mince plays.

Chinese Brands Are Coming!

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