Classic Auto Mall show #237 blends shop-floor updates with deep Indy 500 history and a modern debate about driving engagement. Stuart Howden pushes for consignments as inventory fluctuates, then chats with Rick Schaefer about his book covering Indy 500 (1962–1972): rising speeds, shifting engine layouts, turbo era, safety tech like Nomex, and wild one-off designs. Keith Martin (Sports Car Market) joins to discuss why manual transmissions still matter, how “engagement” beats automation, and what today’s tech gets right—and wrong. The episode also spotlights the museum, pace cars, and recent car arrivals.
Show #237, airdate 04-01-26 Stewart greets Racing Historian and Author Rick Shaffer discussing his book "It's a new track record" (EvroPublishing.com) plus discussion of his time around the Indianapolis Motor Speedway how he writing as a skill and his previous book "500 on (the Indy) 500: Tales, Facts and Figures on the Greatest Race in the World" (#Amazon). Also, Keith Martin from Sports Car Market.
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Recorded in our Showcase Studio just inside the entrance of the Classic Auto Mall in Morgantown, PA, Host Stewart Howden, Classic Auto Mall President and Classic Car Specialist Steve Saffier talk about this unique and amazing place often with amazing guests.
YES...Classic Auto Mall is a REAL former shopping mall that covers almost EIGHT football fields with an average of nearly ONE THOUSAND classic vehicles under one, climate controlled roof and they're all FOR SALE!
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"Broadcast from the studios inside the Classic Automall in Morgantown, Pennsylvania, just one hour west of Philadelphia at Pennsylvania Turnpike Exit 298, featuring nearly 1,000 classic vintage and barred-fine vehicles for sale under one climate-controlled roof."
This is basically a big indoor marketplace for classic cars. Instead of going to lots of different places, you can look at many cars in one location.
“Classic Automall” refers to a classic-car dealership mall—an indoor facility where multiple sellers offer vintage vehicles under one roof. These venues are popular because they combine inventory variety with easier browsing than visiting many separate dealers.
"When I had my first book published in 1999, a racing photographer named Steve Snotty, he was from Indianapolis, came up to me and said, you know, if you think about doing another book, I got a great idea for it."
Indianapolis is a famous place for racing in the U.S. A lot of big events happen there, especially the Indy 500, so “coming to Indy” usually means showing up for that kind of competition.
Indianapolis is a major motorsports hub in the U.S., best known for IndyCar racing and the Indianapolis 500. When a book focuses on cars, drivers, and teams that “came to Indy,” it’s usually referencing that racing scene and its specific era.
"So yeah, the list of characters who were involved in Indy 500 between 62 and 72, [245.5s] So you get guys from Formula One..."
The Indy 500 is a famous race in the U.S. where open-wheel race cars compete at Indianapolis. It’s known for big changes in technology over the years.
The Indianapolis 500 (Indy 500) is a premier American open-wheel race held at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It’s a key part of racing history because car technology and driver talent evolved rapidly across the 1960s into the 1970s.
"On the engine side by 1970 every engine was turbocharged. [289.4s] Right, right."
Turbocharged engines use a device that forces extra air into the engine. More air usually means more power, which is why turbos became important in racing.
Turbocharging uses exhaust gases to spin a turbine that forces more air into the engine, allowing higher power output. The speakers note that by 1970, Indy engines were turbocharged, marking a major technology shift.
"Well, and it's good for their endowment is what they were basically doing. ... He said, no, we've had the construction paid for for a long time."
An endowment is like a financial “nest egg” for an organization. They invest it so they can keep the museum going for a long time, even if donations or ticket sales fluctuate.
An endowment is money set aside and invested so the organization can fund operations long-term. The discussion frames car sales as a way to grow the museum’s endowment so it can keep running “forever,” rather than relying only on ticket sales or donations.
"Foyt. Is that his name? Yes. I was very fortunate to get Mr. Foyt to do the forward and ironically, my previous book, 500 and 500,"
A.J. Foyt is a famous race car driver. He’s known for winning big races many times, which is why his name comes up in discussions about “repeat winners.”
A.J. Foyt is one of the most legendary American racing drivers, known for winning major open-wheel races multiple times. Mentioning him signals the conversation is about elite, repeat winners in top-tier motorsport.
"...if you look at Formula One, I mean, you know, there's not many people that come in first in a year..."
Formula One is the big international race series with teams competing all season. Finishing positions earn points, so even a mid-pack finish can still matter a lot for the team and their sponsors.
Formula One (F1) is a top-level global open-wheel racing series where teams earn points across a season. Because points are awarded for finishing positions, even a fifth or sixth place can be valuable for both the team and sponsors.
"from NASCAR and clean up their wrecks faster.
... You see those NASCAR guys, there's 30 cars in there, you know, 15 cars in a crash
and they've got, they're out there. They got the track cleared in a matter of minutes."
NASCAR is a racing series with stock-style cars, usually on oval tracks. The point here is that NASCAR teams are known for getting crashes cleaned up quickly and running pit stops in a very hands-on way.
NASCAR is a stock-car racing series where cars are raced in oval-track events and teams emphasize fast, repeatable procedures. Here, the speakers highlight NASCAR’s ability to clear wrecks quickly and the practical, analog feel of its pit-stop workflow compared with F1.
"I, I'm glad they shortened the wheelbase, but I didn't shorten enough.
I just think that long wheelbase is ugly.
I'm sorry to see the endurance cars doing the same thing."
Wheelbase is how far apart the front and rear wheels are. A longer wheelbase can change how the car feels and handles, and the speaker thinks the current look/design is less attractive.
Wheelbase is the distance between the front and rear axles. In race-car design, wheelbase affects stability, steering response, and overall packaging; the speaker is criticizing modern F1/endurance designs for being too long.
"But I thought, well, but at least we have an IndyCar series and we have a 500.
And, you know, we're seeing some good races and some interesting people."
IndyCar is the main kind of open-wheel racing in the U.S. It’s a whole season of races, not just one event. People follow it like a championship.
IndyCar is the top open-wheel racing series in the United States, featuring purpose-built race cars and oval/road-course events. When the hosts say they have an “IndyCar series,” they’re talking about the broader championship, not just a single race.
"Did they think that these turbine engines or things like that was did they really feel like there was going to be a future? Or was that just a kind of a gimmick?"
Turbine engines use a gas turbine (air + fuel burned to spin a turbine) rather than a conventional piston engine. They were explored in racing and experimental cars because they can deliver smooth power and high RPM potential, though they also faced challenges like throttle response and efficiency.
A pace car is used to slow and guide the race cars when there’s a caution or during certain parts of the event. It helps keep everyone safe and organized.
The pace car is the vehicle used to control the field during caution periods or at the start of the race. In the Indy 500, the pace car is a high-visibility tradition, often chosen from notable or interesting vehicles.
"... on the chapter of 1962 when it talked about the Avanti was going to be the pace car in 62. But it wasn'..."
The Studebaker Avanti is a classic car made by Studebaker. It’s known for having a very unusual, eye-catching design. People bring it up because it has a notable place in early-1960s car history.
The Studebaker Avanti is a distinctive classic grand touring car produced by Studebaker, best known for its unique styling and limited production. The podcast references the Avanti in the context of 1962, including the idea of it being used as a pace car. It’s discussed because the Avanti is a memorable, historically interesting model that stands out among early-1960s classics.
"They might come in a flatbed from the shop, you know, across town. Usually it was an open trailer by a pickup truck or a station wagon."
A flatbed is a trailer with a flat, open deck used to haul vehicles or equipment without side walls. For race teams, flatbeds are common for moving cars and parts short distances because they’re flexible for loading and unloading.
"Usually it was an open trailer by a pickup truck or a station wagon. You know, they relied on a lot of what you call weekend warriors, guys that would be free help."
An open trailer is a trailer that doesn’t have a full enclosed box around it. It’s a cheaper way to haul cars, especially for short trips.
An open trailer is an uncovered trailer used to transport vehicles. In earlier eras of motorsports, open trailers pulled by pickups or station wagons were a practical, lower-cost way to move race cars around.
"Sure, after testing and all that. So, well, we will put up on the screen where to find your book."
Testing is practice at the track to see how the car behaves. Teams use it to dial in settings before the real race.
Testing is track time used to evaluate setup changes, tire behavior, and car performance before or between race events. It’s a key part of motorsports because small adjustments can significantly affect lap times and reliability.
"because it's got three hundred eight thousand miles. It's a Pontiac GT, a Grand Prix GT, two thousand three."
Miles are how much a car has been driven over its life. 308,000 miles is a lot, so it usually means the car has needed maintenance and repairs to keep running.
Mileage is a key ownership metric for used cars, because it strongly influences wear items, maintenance history, and remaining lifespan. 308,000 miles is unusually high for many modern vehicles, so it often implies either diligent maintenance or a car that’s been kept alive through repairs.
"Before we made our movie, the Chevron commercials were out where the headlights are the eyes, right? You see the Chevron cars."
Chevron is a gas brand. They’re talking about how Chevron ads used a “car with eyes” idea, which connects to how Pixar made the movie Cars feel expressive.
Chevron is a major fuel brand whose advertising is referenced here. The speaker uses Chevron’s commercials as an example of how “headlights as eyes” can be animated to make a car feel more character-like.
"Virginia is not only for lovers, it's for speeding tickets. Yeah. Oh, no radar detectors. No."
A radar detector is a gadget that alerts you when police radar is nearby. It’s meant to help you avoid speeding tickets by giving you a warning.
Radar detectors are devices that listen for police radar signals and warn the driver so they can slow down. In some places, they’ve been treated as contraband or heavily regulated, which is why the conversation mentions enforcement.
Uber is an app you use to request a ride from a nearby driver. It’s one of the most common alternatives to taxis.
Uber is a rideshare platform that connects passengers with drivers through a smartphone app. In discussions like this, it’s often used as a shorthand for app-based alternatives to taxis.
"Why would they just build a track out there like they do like Cota? [2556.6s] Circuit of the Americas in Austin, where they have it, you know, kind of outside of the town where it's not getting in people's way and not a problem."
Circuit of the Americas is a race track in Austin, Texas. It’s built outside the city, so it’s usually less disruptive than racing right through downtown streets.
Circuit of the Americas (COTA) is a purpose-built road course in Austin, Texas, designed to host major motorsport events like Formula One. Its location outside the city helps reduce traffic disruption compared to street circuits.
"Some of our new arrivals. [2575.1s] How about the 1998 Chevrolet Camaro SS Z 28 coupe flame red over light neutral?"
The Chevrolet Camaro SS Z/28 is a performance trim of the Camaro, combining the SS package with the Z/28 performance identity. In the late 1990s, these cars are especially sought after by collectors because they represent a classic muscle-era look with modern (for the time) V8 performance.
"It's got a work five point seven liter LS one with a nitrous"
The LS1 is a Chevrolet V8 engine used in certain performance cars from that era. It’s popular because it makes good power and there are lots of parts and tuning options for it.
“LS1” refers to Chevrolet’s Gen III small-block V8 engine family, used in many late-1990s and early-2000s performance Camaros and Corvettes. It’s known for strong power potential and a large aftermarket support base, which is why it shows up often in enthusiast builds.
"This thing, [2697.2s] 302 cubic inch, two barrel V8, three on the tree, stunning interior, just a really neat car."
That “302 cubic inch” number is the engine size. Bigger displacement usually means more potential for power, and it’s one of the main specs people look for on older cars.
“302 cubic inch” refers to engine displacement—about 5.0 liters—in the Ford V8. Displacement is a key spec for how an engine is categorized and how it’s compared to other classic engines.
"or high output V8, correct turbo hadn't manic 400 automatic 10 volt [2750.7s] axle and got the PHS documentation."
The “Turbo 400” is a classic automatic transmission used by GM. It’s known for being tough and reliable, especially in performance cars.
“Turbo 400” is the common name for GM’s TH400 three-speed automatic transmission. It’s widely known in classic and performance circles for its strength and durability, which is why it shows up in many muscle cars of the era.
"It's more fun than if you're just flicking a paddle."
Paddles are the little levers behind the steering wheel that let you change gears. The speaker is saying it can feel less fun than a system where you actually move the shifter.
Paddle shifters are controls mounted behind the steering wheel that let you command gear changes without using a traditional gear lever. The segment contrasts paddle shifting with older or more manual-feeling systems, arguing that moving the shifter can be more engaging.
"in trying to go into first gear and not grinding them. Well, you remember that, don't you?"
Grinding is the ugly sound you get when gears don’t line up correctly during a manual shift. It usually means you shifted at the wrong time, so the gears fight each other.
Grinding happens when gears attempt to mesh without matching rotational speeds, producing a harsh sound and often damaging wear. The speaker’s emphasis suggests they’re describing the classic consequence of missing the timing on a manual shift—especially with non-synchronized gears.
"Or did we talk about last week about a transmission that can be both an automatic and a manual?"
A transmission is what changes the gears so the engine can work efficiently. It’s the part that helps the car accelerate and drive smoothly.
A transmission is the gearbox system that transfers engine power to the wheels and manages gear ratios. The hosts are discussing a transmission concept that can be experienced as both automatic and manual-like, and how that affects driver engagement.
Term
four plus three
"Hurst have a Pontiac have a four plus three or something. Yeah, the Corvette, the Dugnash four plus three transmission. That's one of them."
“Four plus three” sounds like a special way of getting more gear options than a normal setup. Here it’s tied to a shifter/transmission combination that’s meant to feel more like manual shifting.
“Four plus three” is a shorthand phrase often used to describe a transmission setup that combines a four-speed and a three-speed concept—commonly referring to special automatic/manual-like arrangements or multi-pattern shift systems. In this segment it’s mentioned alongside a “dual gate shifter,” suggesting a gear-selection scheme rather than a standard single transmission.
"Yeah, the Hurst dual gate shifter, which was, you know, an automatic to the left. And, you know, kind of a not a manual because there's no clutch."
A clutch is what you press (in a manual car) to help you change gears. It temporarily disconnects the engine from the gearbox.
A clutch is the pedal-actuated mechanism that disconnects the engine from the transmission so gears can be changed smoothly in a manual setup. The segment contrasts a shifter that feels manual-like without a clutch versus a scenario where a clutch “appears.”
"Yeah. Well, it's like Barrett Jackson did that thing where they would blindfold
[3259.1s] the Steve Mignanti and those guys and they'd have to feel what the car is."
Barrett-Jackson is a famous classic car auction. They sometimes do challenges where people can’t see the car and have to judge it by feel.
Barrett-Jackson is a major classic car auction company known for high-profile collector auctions. The segment references their “blindfold” style judging/inspection concept, where people evaluate a car by touch rather than sight.
"Yeah. And I don't do it, but people put their car in cruise control
[3299.0s] and in traffic jams."
Cruise control is the feature that helps your car hold a steady speed. Instead of you constantly controlling the gas, the car does it for you.
Cruise control is a driver-assistance feature that maintains a set speed without the driver constantly pressing the accelerator. In traffic, it can reduce workload, but it’s also why more advanced systems (like adaptive cruise) matter.
"And you had to work that car because it had no horsepower. Yeah. That's zero. And at the opposite of horsepower, it had no horsepower."
Horsepower is a measure of an engine’s power output—how much work it can do over time. In the context of this segment, the speaker is saying the car had very little horsepower, which makes driving a manual more challenging because you can’t rely on strong acceleration to recover from mistakes.
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