Did Cadillac Make the Right Choice With Bottas & Perez? | Unlapped

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I'm so happy to be back, and I mean that in so many ways. Also, hi, Laz.

It's been a minute, and I've been just gagging over all of your Instagram photos.

We'll get to that in a second. Officially, welcome to Unlapped.

I'm Nicole. Unlapped is presented by Oracle.

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Dude, I haven't actually seen you on this little screen in like a minute.

And you have been out doing your other career, taking photos at like MotoGP and just like literally

anywhere else in the world. I said this last week, if you haven't followed this man on Instagram,

like you're doing yourself a disservice. Also, I've said, I think you're in the wrong

profession, like as great as you are at this. Like you need to be taking photographs all the

time. How are you? Yeah, very good. Thank you. Yeah. So I made full use of the summer break

and booked some time off and MotoGP very kindly welcomed me to come along to a race. And it's one

of those dream scenarios where they said you can come to any race you want this season.

Just let us know. And I looked at our calendar. I looked at their calendar and there's a lot of

clashes, but I'm a big two wheel fan. You know, I've got my motorbike. I love riding it.

So, yeah, I had to take them up on the opportunity during the summer break.

Obvious one was the Austrian Grand Prix. Not a bad place in the world to go on a

motorcycle as well, because there's rolling hills and twisties all over the place. So

rode my way down there and had a great weekend shooting Mark Marquez and all the MotoGP stars.

And it's a cool sport. Really cool sport. Like this, like what? I realize I'm not doing

you justice, but I'm just like doom scrolling right now. Also, you went 2700 miles.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm more I'm feeling that actually. I almost thought I wouldn't be able to get a

Zamborg because my left ankle, my my gear changing ankle. I don't know what it's like

repetitive stress syndrome or injury or whatever. It's called age. Yeah, old age. It's certainly

a big part of it. I basically couldn't walk the day I got off the bike because my left

ankle had seized up from changing up and down gear so much. But yeah, hey, it was a great

trip. But you know, I feel like in F1, if you're doing this 24 race season, that

well, Nate and I kind of share between us. But if you're doing that, you've got to take

some time off. And yeah, for me, it was going back to a racetrack, which is slightly

counterintuitive. But but it was it was great. And yeah, I really would like this.

And anyone who is vaguely interested in MotoGP, get yourself to a race. The Austin race

has already happened, but it's going to be on again next year. But yeah, get yourself

long to race because it's a really cool environment, quite relaxed, chilled out.

But just what those guys do on bikes is insane. No, totally insane. For the record,

I like this, the extra, the extra bushiness for warmth on the face. It's nice. It's nice.

Yeah, we actually, we actually have stopped to talk about this week because the break is

officially over as of what Saturday morning, 6am, like open the computer, start firing

those emails again. So we have a race this weekend in Zandvoort. But I think we can't

start there. We actually had to talk about what Cadillac did this morning. And we've

talked about this for like weeks on end. Cadillac is the new team on the grid in 2026.

And now we officially know who their drivers are, Valtteri Botos, and welcome back,

Sergio Perez. I think we were all expecting this. Do we think they got it right?

I think, yes, from the perspective of being a brand new team with more challenges than

any other team on the grid in terms of getting things ready, having a car,

you need experience in that car. And that's what they've gone for. They've got,

well, I expect to be the oldest driver lineup on the grid next year in case we get some,

some callbacks from the past. The combined age of those two drivers is going to be 71 years old.

And, but they need that, they need that. They could really go with rookies as much as it would

have been fun and all the rest of it. And I'm sure some people find this choice of Perez and Bottas

a bit uninspiring. They had to go with known quantities because when the car isn't behaving

itself, and that will almost certainly be the case from race one, they need to know that

it isn't a driver issue, you know, the drivers are solid enough, have the depth of knowledge

in terms of setup, in terms of what to do with the car in certain situations

to rule that out as one of the factors. And I think that's why they've gone for it.

I mean, I don't know, I mean, how do you feel, Nicole? Were you a bit disappointed when you

know that? I mean, we saw this coming a long way off, as you said, but how do you feel about

those two guys? I'm not at all disappointed. I think it does make the most sense. I do think

you have to have, and you can speak to this more than I can, but when it comes to the amount

of work that Cadillac is trying to do just to get to the point where they actually have a car on

the grid and they can race two cars weekend and week out, there's a tremendous amount of work there

and you do need to rely on experience. And that doesn't just mean experience at the factory.

It has to be experience in the car because they can give you feedback that someone who is

brand new to the situation just can't. They don't have the depth of knowledge.

They don't have the experience. They don't have reps at tracks like the testing is not

the same that it used to be. You don't have unlimited time and miles to go out and just

wear yourself out at these locations. Yes, there are simulators that teams can rely on now,

but let's be honest, a simulator is also not the same as real world experience. So I do think

that this was probably like the right move. Also, I am a massive fan of Botas. He's like,

do you know sometimes you come across people and you're like, that person is a national

treasure and he needs to be protected at all costs. Like that is how I feel about Botas.

And that's just his personality out of the car in the car. I think he's also perhaps very underrated

if you look at what he's done across the way. It'll be interesting to see what he can bring

to the table at this point in his career with the situation. And we've talked about this

ad nauseam too. If anyone has come out of the last year with the Red Bull situation being what it is,

if anyone has come out of that situation sort of smelling like roses, I think it is absolutely

Sergio Perez because there was a time not that long ago where we're like, oh my God,

what is wrong with him? Why can't he do this? And you look at everything that has unfolded

since he left the team, he suddenly looks hell of a lot better than I think anyone thought he was.

And that's because of the Liam Lawson situation and you look at what Yuki's been able to do

essentially in the same car. So it's good to see him back. I just think there are going to be

some people out there who feel like this is an American team who will say, why is

I'm not an American in the car? We can talk and complain about the pipeline all we want,

but I think for what Cadillac is trying to do, this makes the most sense.

I agree. I mean, it would have been great if there was an American ready to roll in this team.

That's the thing. There's not an American who's ready and that's not a Cadillac issue,

that's a pipeline issue. Exactly. And so I mean, Jack Crawford may be one of the more

obvious ones to make the step from F2, but you have the real danger of just burning for a driver

like that because this is not going to be an easy year. This first year with Cadillac is not going

to be easy. There's going to be a lot of scrapping over 21st and 22nd place, potentially in a league

of their own at the back. I think maybe perhaps if Ferrari get it right with the power unit,

of course Cadillac are using Ferrari power units as they set out in Formula One,

then perhaps that will help elevate them up the grid a little bit, especially if other

companies get it wrong. But yeah, I just think there's a real danger that you put a

new fresh rookie talent in there who is American and by the end of the season they look nowhere,

you know, kind of Logan Sergeant situation. So I don't think that would have benefited,

you know, any Americans caused in Formula One either. I mean, here's a question for you.

You know the American racing scene way better than I do. How important is it,

if there is a brand like Cadillac, among most sport fans, how important is it at some point

they get an American driver? Because they have talks about an academy as well. So

it is important that it does happen at some point. I think there's always, I think there's always the

issue of representation and that goes for nationality, but also like it's sort of the

idea of as you see it, you can believe it. So representation and diversity of thought,

and no matter what you're doing, I think is important. I have never been one personally

to believe that I can't be a fan of someone because they're not from the same country as me.

I was never, you know, back in, you know, 10, 12 years ago with IndyCar,

you know, Ryan Hunter Ray was Captain America because he's the American guy in like an American

sport. I love the Hunter Ray's don't get me wrong, but I was never one who was like,

oh my god, he's the saving grace because he's an American. I can respect someone's talent

and their ability. Also, I'm married to an Australian. You know what I mean? I've never

been one to fully believe in that. So I do think it might be a fine line situation.

Formula One is growing in the US regardless of who's sitting on the grid. Formula One is growing

in the US because people are drawn in by the stories. They're captivated by the personalities.

Those are the reasons why it's growing. I don't actually know. I mean, was Logan Sargent that

big of a deal? No. And here's the other thing. The pipeline for Formula One does not necessarily

go through anything in the United States that makes an American driver recognizable to anyone

who lives here. I guarantee Jack Crawford could fall through the ceiling in 99% of sports bars

in the US and 99% of the people in the room, if not fully everyone, isn't going to know who he is.

The same thing happened with Logan Sargent. There are people who don't even know Alexander Rossi

was in Formula One, and this is a guy who's won the Indy 500. You can call it an issue. You can

call it just the way that it is. I just don't know if that is necessarily the thing that

it's not the be all end all. But it is a representation issue. It would be nice to go out and say,

yeah, that's an American. That's cool. That's something to root for. If I don't have somebody,

I just don't think it's a deal breaker anymore. Yeah, I agree. And this is something that Graham

Loden talked about because he was asked about this. He's the team principal at Cadillac,

and it was, I guess, ultimately his decision that it was going to be Bottas and Perez. And

if you read that press release, it was just the word that kept coming up as a word we've

already used so far, experience and known quantities and all that kind of stuff. And

when he was asked about, will there be an American driver further down the line and how does it happen,

he says they've got to be there on merit. Everybody in that team, he said it's absolutely

there on merit. No one gets a free pass to get into it. And that is the way you have

to operate in Formula One because as soon as you start doing anything else,

you're going to struggle to compete because all your rivals are going to be doing exactly the

same thing. I'll be putting drivers in there on merit, on the basis of talent, on the basis of

experience, on the basis of what they've achieved up to that point. And so Cadillac can be no different

in that regard. But I think because, you know, my hope would be that because Cadillac are coming

in, and because although it isn't actually based in the US at the moment, it will be. And

because they're looking to draw on the huge engineering talent that exists in the United

States, but perhaps isn't already directly linked to Formula One or even Motorsport,

they see huge potential in that. And as that builds, and as perhaps they put an academy in place,

again, Graham Loudon said it's a bit too early to be talking about, you know, exactly what we're

putting in place with reserve drivers academies, because they've only just signed there to

race drivers, and they have the priority of getting the cars on track next year. But once

everything is in place and working along, I think it will attract people in. I think,

you know, the fact that Cadillac is going to be there as an 11th team will be that draw for those

young drivers going through karting. It's already there to some extent that they're starting to look

to F1 instead of IndyCar or NASCAR as they probably have done in decades past. And so all of that

combined Cadillac's presence combined or everything else, that's what's going to bring through a

brilliant American talent in my belief. And I think it probably will be a matter of time,

but we just don't have one at this moment. You know, it's just the way it is. There's

other countries which do not have talent on the grid at the moment, countries with huge

histories in Formula One. I mean, it's only recently that we've got a Brazilian back on

the grid, and of course the history of Brazil in Formula One is huge. So things like that,

you know, they do take a bit of time and then it does just take that very special,

exceptional individual to come through. But I think all the building blocks,

all the foundations are there for that to happen a little bit further down the line.

And in the meantime, during the tough years, the first two or three years,

which no one is pretending, you know, Cadillac is going to go fighting for wins and championships,

you've got Valtteri Bottas and Checo Perez there doing the hard work and with the experience to

make it happen. Because I think what you said a couple of seconds ago is a really like overlooked,

yet super profound thought when it comes to Cadillac. Like you literally said,

the priority is getting the car on the track. That is a legitimate issue. That is a

I won't say it's a concern, but that is a legitimate fight for Cadillac right now.

They're going from the ground up. So it's not just having the drivers in position. It's not

just having the right engineering staff. It's not having the trackside people there. It's not

having the behind the scenes people there. It is literally something quite as simple as

you're not going to be at the race unless they have a car. And they're starting from

zero. They're starting from scratch. No one is giving them something and saying, here,

take this and build on it. So can you imagine Isaac Hajar goes into the first race of this

season in a car that has never seen a race environment before and does what happens in

Australia, but does it for Cadillac? It's a it's a disaster in a way that it wasn't a

disaster for racing bulls. And I just don't know how to put that into context anymore than we already

are. Yeah, that's right. I mean, I was actually lucky enough to get a tour of the Silverstone

facility, which is where the cars are being built out of for next year. And they have a

proof of concept 2026 chassis, which is actually quite a rare thing in the world. It certainly

was about a month ago when they were showing it to us. And that's been through various

crash tests. But they had to get to that stage because they had so little previous experience

or or knowledge or whatever to bet to base their basic ideas on going forward that they had to

get that that stage done. And the other thing they said at that point was they had about half

the staff they needed to go racing at that point. So they were still in this massive or

they still are in this massive recruitment phase, just to get the people in the in the

right seats. And we got a tour of the design office. And when in there, there's lots of engineers

working for every hard, some of which you'd recognized from previous teams past people

that have moved there. Lots of people that move there on the basis of trust alone, because

when they did sign the contract Cadillac didn't actually have a guaranteed place on the grid in

2026. So a lot of very dedicated experienced people, but there was still about half a design office

with seats that weren't filled that needed to be filled. So there is so much going on. And

that's why when we talked about the drivers in previous podcasts, we have said, well, actually,

it's fairly low down the priority order right now. And then when you look at it that way,

it's no surprise that they've gone for the two drivers that they've gone for.

It's going to be a frustrating season, because it's going to be challenging. It's going to be

hard. The results aren't going to be there. Them competing for 21st and 22nd. That is going

to probably be a week in and week out thing. Yes, there are going to be times when maybe

they'll lock into something better. But if you're thinking anything else, you really need to lower

the expectations, which then takes me back to the two drivers. So when it is frustrating,

when it is really hard, when it is ugly, how are the personalities of those two drivers specifically

sort of like uniquely right or uniquely the right fit to handle that exact situation?

So these are also questions that were put to those two drivers during the press conference

today, and I'm going to paraphrase so I don't have the quotes in front of me. But basically,

Checo said that he was looking forward to enjoying F1 again, because in the context of what he was

saying, he wasn't enjoying it that much at Red Bull. And the other quote that stood out to me is

that he couldn't allow his career to end the way that it ended at Red Bull. He had a two-year

contract there, and he got booted out of that team. And he couldn't have that, I don't think,

within himself being the last thing he did in F1. He did a lot of soul searching over the last

six months or so and kind of really questioned whether he wanted to come back, and he decided

that he did. And then this was the best thing on the line for him. It's the best opportunity

there for him. And he said, he recognized that there's going to be these bad moments where

you're at the back of the grid, cars not competitive, and they're pretty dark moments

as a driver. But he said that he's still looking forward to enjoying that progress he

believes they can make that step and move forward. And then, as for Valtteri Bottas, well,

similar question was put to him. And he said, actually, he's already kind of been through

that process, because he went from Mercedes to Alfa Romeo, which then became Sauber,

and he had to completely reset his expectations of every race weekend going to that team,

because he went from potentially fighting for victories at races to potentially fighting

for the last two rows on the grid with an exceptional lap in qualifying. And so he said he'd

already been through that process, and therefore he already understands what he's getting himself

into. And easy things to say at this stage when the ink is still drying on the contract,

and there's all this enthusiasm and belief that the team can move its way off the back

of the grid over the next few years. But I think genuinely with those two guys,

given what they've been through, and also given the way that their careers almost ended at the end

of last year, there is a reason for them to just plow through and try and build something better.

And I think that's why, again, those two drivers are probably the right choice,

because again, you bring in a rookie with expectations of being at the front, perhaps

someone who's excelled in Formula Two or another category. That's also how you ruin a driver's

career. Yeah. You know, I can't imagine being a rookie and being like,

I'm going to go take that seat because there's nothing good that can come out of it. If I'm,

if I'm going to go in as an unproven rookie, and I'm agreeing to join a team that is brand new,

I'm not going to get the results. I'm not going to get a chance to showcase my talent.

And it's not going to put me in a position to succeed, like literally or figuratively.

So you need those two guys to then go be like, oh, I don't want my career to end that way.

I just, it just made too much sense. Yeah. And it's not fair in a rookie as well,

when they're in an engineering room, you've got all these engineers turning around and asking,

hey, what's wrong with the car in that moment? You're like, well, it's only my second day in

a Formula One car. I don't know. Like, you know, it's different to the F2 car, sure. But,

you know, how do they build on that? So again, like I say, it's just,

just makes perfect sense for have to have battery there, checker there,

drivers that can say, well, when I was at Red Bull, when I was at Mercedes,

we did it this way. And, you know, we bring in setup ideas, bring in car development ideas.

That's what those two bring to this. Systems ideas, how things like might run and

to make things more efficient. There is obviously a timeline that Cadillac needs to follow to be in

position to be ready to go race one and next season. The driver announcement in a lot of

ways is like kind of formality. How does that timeline now look between now and race

one of next season? What are some, what are some like key events that need to happen for Cadillac

before we even get to the beginning of 2026? Well, it's interesting because Valtteri is actually

still the Mercedes reserve driver. So he's actually, I don't think he can be quite as

involved as perhaps he'd want to be. But that's really just the race weekends. It seems like

Mercedes have come to agreement where he can be involved in Cadillac, where he needs to be.

And then the similar question was put to Perez and he said, well, I'm jobless at the moment.

So all of my time is going to be dedicated to making sure this car is in the best place possible.

And a lot of that is so often the case in Formula One. And in fact, because there's a

regulation change is the case for all teams going into 2026. A lot of that is happening

in the simulator. So you've got different simulation tools. There's CFD where you're

designing in basically a computer space and you're understanding what's going on.

You've got the wind tunnel where you can double check that. At the moment Cadillac are using the

Toyota wind tunnel in Germany, which in Cologne, which has been used by many teams over the years

with some success, some with less success, but it's certainly a solid platform to be using.

And then there's the driver in loop simulator. And I think Perez is going to find himself

probably more in that than he ever was in the Red Bull one over the next six months,

because they're just going to need answers. They're going to need to understand and get

their heads around it so that when they do go out, they fully understand every single little bit of

potentially what this car can do. There'll still be surprises. There'll still be things that don't

match up with simulation, but having that all there. And again, Loudon explained that how

actually at the moment, what they're doing in the simulator often is going there and running

a whole race weekend. So they're going through free practice. They're going through qualifying.

They're going into the race. And they're having the engineers in the positions they'll be in

when they go first racing in Australia so that it doesn't seem unnatural for one of the engineers to

pipe up and start talking about something mid-race. All the voices are known and connected.

And all the voices that they're also hearing in their ears.

Exactly. Yeah. So it's all connected as it should be before they go and do it.

So stuff like that is all going on. And then of course, just the actual physical

construction of the car, no mean feat. And also getting their hands on the Ferrari

drivetrain and placing that in there to make sure all of that fits and works as best it can.

Because it's a very big challenge for all teams going into 2026,

understanding how to use these new power units as best as possible.

It's a little wild because there are all these things that I think theoretically

you take for granted. These things just happen and you have the established teams that can go

into it and they just have years of experience. Even the teams that aren't great right now,

they still have an encyclopedia that they can basically rely on. Systems that are in place,

like routines that are in place that they can fall back on. None of that exists.

I am curious though, because obviously, BOTAS was connected to a few other potential changes

on the grid. Rich Eisen here, the tax deadline will be here before you know it.

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click Granger.com or just stop by. What's the fallout now and sort of like the domino effect

of him actually signing with Cadillac? How does that affect the decision making

potentially made by other teams the rest of the season?

Well, I think one of the reasons we got this decision when we did going into the second half

of the season is that prior to the summer break, we found out for certain that Max Verstappen was

staying where he was at Red Bull. And you think, well, why would that impact Cadillac? I mean,

Verstappen was never on Cadillac's radar, vice versa. But the potential ramifications it

could have had, you know, where would George Russell have gone and all of this kind of

stuff. And perhaps for someone like Perez or Bottas, you know, what opportunities might have

come up if Verstappen had made a move, you know, there would have been a Red Bull seat immediately

available. So all of that was going on behind the scenes. Once that all got settled,

then Cadillac was able to basically get these two names on contracts. And then I guess the

question mark we have left is what will Red Bull do going forward? Because, you know, they've

got Yuki Snotter and Max there, but will they keep Yuki Snotter going into 26? And then the other big

one is, sorry, second. Especially with the no more like connections to Honda. Exactly. Yeah,

Honda going to Aston Martin. Yeah. So that's remains a big question. And then the other one

which having voucher Bottas was definitely talking to was Alpine, because Alpine,

by the moment, have a slight driver issue. You know, what are they going to do with

Franco Codepinto going into second half of the year? They gave him that opportunity going into

Imola. I think it was and booted Jack Doer now after Miami. And it hasn't worked. It just hasn't

worked. So what are they going to do for the rest of the season where it's looking increasingly

like Codepinto will stay where he is? But what do they do going into 26? You know,

do they stick with Codepinto? Do they trust him? Do they bring Doer back in? Those are all

questions which then come to the forefront of the drive market. But otherwise, you know,

everything's kind of in place. And this was something that, again, Graham Loudon said,

was the one of the easier things for Cadillac making coming in in 2026 was that a lot of the

drivers were already on two or three year contracts with other teams. So the drive

markets actually fairly settled at the moment. Max was the big potential player if he could

have got himself out of the Red Bull one. But assuming he's there, everything else was

fairly set in place. So it's really just going to be those those last kind of few places.

Alpine, what do they do? Do Red Bull want to gamble on a change? But there's been so much

changes within those teams anyway, especially Red Bull with Horner Leven and Laura Mekki's coming in.

It's I think things are still betting in before we get some clear answers on that.

We'll be still having these conversations in 2026, by the way.

Absolutely. And more so. Exactly. Because Max is in.

Lewis Hamilton, where he stayed beyond 26.

Exactly. Yeah.

Speaking of Lewis Hamilton, last week when we did the podcast,

you were still doing your world travels and taking all those gorgeous photos.

And the producers, because they're mean, they made us make bold predictions for the remainder

of the season. And yes, because we sort of like went back and revisited some of the bold

predictions that we've made at the beginning of the season. And honestly,

there were a couple that may have seemed slightly out of left field. And I think we're our

biggest surprise is maybe how Lewis Hamilton is or not performing so far this season.

So they were like, you need to make bold predictions for the remainder of the season.

I said that Williams was going to win a race.

I did listen. I was like, wow, that's bold.

But that's the whole point. It has to be bold. It can't make sense.

It has to be bold something wild. Like give me a rain race. Give me a race.

Like there was what race was it last season where there are two Alpines on the podium?

Brazil, yeah. Yeah, exactly. No one would have predicted.

Weird stuff can, I always said a naughty bird, weird stuff can happen. So like I went with

don't I'm on crack, whatever it's fine. And Nate, after poo pooing, Lewis Hamilton was like,

Lewis Hamilton is going to win a race. And he went further and said he's going to win the

race at Monza. So you can laugh at both of us, but we're going to make you make the

prediction too. So what's your, and it better be bold, buddy. Like it has to be bold. What

is it? What's your bold prediction prediction for the remainder of the season?

So I was listening to last week's podcast as I was making my way back.

You're the one.

United Kingdom on the bike. And I'm quite concerningly, actually. I thought, well,

what would I say in this situation? And I actually, before Nate said it, had in my mind

Lewis Hamilton wins a race. Why not Monza? And then Nate said it. I was like,

Stop it.

We spent way too much time together. But obviously I'm not going to go with that.

One other one, which actually you guys really kind of, you know, got stuck into one of Nate's

pre-season predictions. But I think could still happen is Fernando Alonso getting a podium.

Hear me out. Hear me out. In Hungary, he finished fifth, Aston Martin will quit all weekend

for a specific track. But say Singapore somewhere like that, if he qualifies well,

makes a good start, puts it up in third place, hard to overtake.

Is predicting something gets on the podium all that bold though?

Well, maybe not. Okay. And then my other one, which went through my mind. And again,

this isn't bold compared to Williams winning a race, but I don't know how I can beat with that.

Wait, and then he was like, which driver? And I'm like, doesn't matter if it happens.

So I mean, I could go with like Hass winning a race or whatever, which would be great.

But no, my other one, which is on the boundary of, well, I think on the

boundary of realistic, but also quite bold prediction is Antonelli wins a race after a

pretty, pretty bad few races, you know, in the run up to the summer,

things looked a little bit better in Hungary. I could just see him taking that step up again.

Cold weather conditions. We know that the Mercedes still has this weird

kind of bias towards cold weather conditions being quick like that.

And Kimi Antonelli wins a race in his rookie season, a rookie winning a race.

I think that's pretty bold. Not a bold one.

Wait, can you imagine if Antonelli won at Monza?

Well, I mean, that would be, yeah, I don't think anyone would be getting out of there

without drinking many, many pints of beer and celebrating along with the Italians.

I've been in Monza for a Ferrari victory.

It's fantastic. Exactly. Last year and the Leclerc one before that one as well.

But yeah, an Italian winning in Monza, I've never seen. So I think that would be,

yeah, off the scale. So why not? Let's say that. I'll go head to head with

Nate in, you know, literally a week's time after Zandvoort. We're going to find out

does Lewis Hamilton win it? Does Kimi Antonelli win it? Reality, probably, Oscar Piazza.

I have the rest of this. There we go. We'll put those heads ahead.

My hierarchy actually comes through. So that's what I did. I built, I said something ridiculous

and then I gave myself many races for it to come through, you know, it's a good situation.

I do want to look ahead to Zandvoort because we haven't had the chance to actually look

ahead to a race now since, what was it, the first weekend of August?

It feels like a long time ago. It does. It feels like forever ago. My children have gone back to

school now. That's the world we now live in. And the stat of the week is brought to you by Oracle.

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So back in 2021, Max Verstappen led every single lap in Zandvoort, which obviously led him to

being the first Dutch driver to win at that race. So given his level of success period,

also his level of success historically in his home races, what are the realistic expectations

for not Red Bull, but just Verstappen this weekend? I think higher than you might expect.

I mean, they had an awful weekend going into the summer break in Hungary. And, you know,

there's a lot of kind of similar speed corners in Zandvoort as there is in Hungary,

but it's a different type of track. It's kind of almost like a mini Suzuka.

And remember, that was one of the races that Verstappen won earlier this year.

And he won here in 2021, 2022, 2023. Last year, I think he led about 17, 18 laps

before being overtaken by Norris. He is just quick here. And then added in, I checked because I'm

packing my bags just before I start this podcast. I'm going to have to bring my raincoat because

it looks like it's going to be wet on Saturday and Sunday. And we know how good Max can be

in the wet. So all of that coming together and his home race and the pressure on the two

McLaren drivers, and Max just pulling a move into that first corner, I think this is probably as

good an opportunity as he's got for a few races to win. When you look at the track, let's do the,

let's do my favorite thing that we do. The Lawrence Max, the Lawrence track breakdown.

What is it about this track that is different? What is it that makes it unique and special?

There's actually quite a lot. It's in the San Junes in Zandvoort. And actually,

to give a bit of history about the circuit, it's based on roads that were built by the

Nazis during the Second World War between the San Junes and the service roads. And after the war ended,

a bunch of motorcycle enthusiasts all got together and they traced some lines together that they felt

would make a good race track. And it's not changed a huge amount. And now we have these big

two meter wide Formula One cars going around there, not motorcycles. And it's quite a

remarkable track to watch the cars at because there's not much runoff area. Two of the corners

severely banked, like really almost kind of, I mean, not quite on a, on an overall level banked,

but you know, it's serious banking for a Formula One car, a Formula One circuit.

So you have all these different factors coming in. And it's very old school, one little error.

And that's it. Your, it's kind of a big boy. Yeah, it really is your weekends. I mean,

remember Logan Sargent, this was basically the circuit that ended his career. He had that

massive accident in the Williams, like spread all of their brand new parts of their work really hard

to get from the factory onto the car. And then Franco Codepinto replaced him in Monza. So,

you know, it really is a circuit where it makes a big, big difference. Bravery skill level,

ability to push right to the limit. And so that's great. The downside is it's not great

for overtaking. It's not great for racing. Pirelli have tried to find, to add a bit of

excitement by bringing in softer tyre compounds. So you have a bit more degradation

that could push some people towards a two stop, although one stops probably still the key. And

the other thing they've actually tried to do, I mean, this is getting into the weeds a bit, but

they've increased the pit lane speed limit by 20 kilometers an hour for this year compared to

last year. So it's gone up from roughly 37 miles per hour to 50 miles per hour. And the idea

of that is that that's less time lost making a pit stop. So you'd be more inclined to do

two stops. So they're trying all this stuff to try and encourage a bit of excitement, something a

bit different. And then if you need one more good reason to watch it, well, this is the penultimate

race at Zandvoort. And then it's gone, because next year is the last year of the contract.

And as far as we know, long term it's not coming back. So really, you know, if you want

your fix of old school Formula One race circuits, get a bit of it this year and get

the rest of it next year, because after that it's gone. Cool place to go and watch.

The weather looks to be it's like an interesting that the tire compounds you've got the the change

in the speed limit and then you throw in the weather, which is why we're going to get a

weird winner. I'm kidding. But you look at it and I guess my question with the weather is

there have been some sort of interesting calls from Formula One and the stewards in the

last handful of weeks in terms of when they're allowed to race. Like can you see

and like we just didn't race in the rain a couple of weeks ago. Is that a new trend

with sort of Formula One being like, no, it's too dangerous. We can't do this. Or

are we going to maybe get the opportunity just to see a wet race?

So this year has been a difficult one because we've had almost two extremes

because remember in Silverstone, the spray was so bad that Hadja went into the back of Antonelli,

couldn't see and cause an accident when they tried to restart the race. So

that's the one extreme that they're trying to avoid. And then the other extreme was Spa,

where they basically let the didn't the track dry before they allowed them to go racing. I think

Spa was exceptional circumstances because that track is so dangerous because of the recent

history of that track in Formula two and freka two deaths in the last kind of three or four years

or so. That has to be taken into account because it's so much easier to explain away why you didn't go

racing than it is an incident which could have been avoided had you not gone racing. So

that's the start reality of it. And I think, you know, that's something that we always have to

remind everyone of when this question comes up. But I think the issue that form one faces at

the moment is the certainly when they're running on the full wet tires, they're throwing so much

water into the air. And the underneath of these cars is basically just sucking up all this water,

throwing out the diffuser up in a big spray, you know, Taylor spray and you just cannot see.

And if the drivers can't see, then it's it's luck as much as judgment. And when it gets to that

stage, you know, somebody's going to make a decision. And if it was my decision, I'd

be erring on the side of caution as well. But because I think we've had these two extremes,

you know, Silverstone and Spa this year, I think probably if I will hopefully get the balance a

little bit better, a little bit more in the middle, I think Spa probably was too far one way. But again,

like I said, so much easier to defend that decision than something going wrong.

And I do think you need to take into account because you hit it on the head, Spa is dangerous.

And the recent history, it's easy to go back and look at that and say there's a reason to

be safer. I for one personally would really like to see them go in the wet. I think the rain

can be a great equalizer and a lot of situations. I love the strategy that comes into play.

I like those races where you get weird things that happen. Because think about it, one of the

best storylines of the year is when you get a podium from somebody like Nico Hülkenberg.

Those are the things that sort of, you know, from a from a fan perspective, often

you'll hear oh my, maybe not this year, obviously, but oh my god, Max Verstappen won again.

It always sort of lends itself to be a more exciting situation when you have

the human element that's brought into it. When you have the story of somebody who hasn't done

something in a long time or it's a weird event or like a weird team is on the podium and,

you know, they break through. So I would really love for it to at least be an opportunity

to have a bit of an equalizer because I think under normal circumstances it's going to

absolutely be the normal people. So I don't want you to answer this next question by

saying McLaren or Max, because we have to go into it assuming the McLaren is still going to be

good and McLaren is still going to put a car out on the grid this weekend that is

more likely than not to win the race. And the same thing for Max. So if you take those three

cars out of the equation, who else has the potential to have a good weekend?

So I would say Ferrari is the next logical choice, perhaps not, that's surprising.

But it's true, you know, I mean, despite all of the fallout from Hungary and everything that

Lewis said, there were times in that weekend where it looked like Charlotte Clerk was going to win that

race. And and that has come after Ferrari have made some very big change on the car. Obviously

he didn't. And that's what matters at the end of the race is did he win the race? Was he

potentially didn't even finish on the podium in the end because they had other issues.

But they have clearly made a step with that car. And it's just whether they can extend

that performance from the single lap in qualifying or the first stint or the second stint to

the full length of the race. And whether they've basically come up with some ways to,

it seems, stopped the floor wear and, you know, the issues of running the car too low

that they've had throughout the season. If they found a way around that, that could actually

springboard Ferrari right back into contention for this weekend.

They've been looking on Mercedes, but this wasn't a great track for Mercedes this time

last year. And and they've been through a strange period this season where they

brought a suspension upgrade to the car that wasn't an upgrade. It was very much a downgrade.

They went back in Hungary and they just seem a little bit lost. So I would put Ferrari ahead

of Mercedes behind behind that Max McLaren kind of top three that is probably quite likely to

happen, isn't it? What about the rookies? Like which rookie do you have the most faith in

this weekend? It's a tough circuit for rookies because, like I mentioned earlier,

one small mistake. And and yeah, you can do yourself a lot of damage on the car,

a lot of damage. Do they have this track going in given their racing in other series?

Yeah. So it wasn't weirdly, it wasn't on the F2 calendar last year. I just went and checked that

and it had been in 2023. So all of the rookie class that came through with, you know,

Bearman and Antonelli, they they went have raced there. Hajar has raced there. So he's

probably one to keep an eye on anyway, because we know one how good he's been. I think he's

impressed everyone this year. But also, we know that racing bulls, car, any circuit,

the engineers can kind of basically put it in a sweet spot quite quickly,

quite early on in the weekend. And I think that's going to count for a lot in building

confidence through the practice sessions and into qualifying. So there's some logic behind

back in Hajar. But then Bortoletto is the driver who's just impressed me massively

recently. And Salba seems to be on such an upward trajectory. You know, we're no longer surprised

to see them battling in Q3 or battling for points, which at the start of the year would have been a

major shot. So Bortoletto is another one who I think is really starting to impress me. I know

both you and Nate were singing Nika Hülkenberg's praises as a top three driver.

Bortoletto though too.

But yeah, I mean, I think what Bortoletto has been able to do against him,

you know, in terms of his qualifying, he's got a better qualifying record than

Hülkenberg. I think it's A6. I don't know. I'm putting myself on the spot there a bit,

but he's ahead of Hülkenberg in qualifying. And so that raw pace is there. And I feel

like now in the second half of the season, he's learned and what's more, those lessons

have really sunk in. And he's taking those learnings and he's putting them into practice

in the races. And so he's someone who I would really back for some,

some more good results in the second half of the year.

Obviously the second half of the season last year was a big turning point for Ferrari,

because when it came, when they came back from the summer break, they were probably the best

team on the grid. They did the most damage and really made a run at the constructors

championship in the second half of the season. There are a number of teams who will have

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Who is going to be the Ferrari of this season?

Well, I mean, the thing about this year now is that if teams are still bringing updates now,

given the major regulation change we have going into 26, it's something of surprise.

And so I think less so than last year and previous years. It's less of a dynamic fluid situation

going into it. However, there were a number of quite big upgrade packages, the Ferrari one I

mentioned already, that arrived just before the summer break. And you can put a package on a car

and not fully understand it and not fully get the full performance from it. I mean,

you may understand it, but not fully extract the full performance from it for several races.

So I think you'll still see that fluid thing. And you know what? I think just because the

pressure that's been on Ferrari at the start of this year, I think they've actually

probably pushed a little bit harder than maybe they would have expected to. And because it's

been kind of quite clear what's wrong with that car that they haven't been able to

run at the right height that they want to, to get the performance from it.

Finding a solution to that has been quite an important thing going into the second half of the

year. So again, I kind of expect Ferrari to make some progress. I don't think it's going to be

like last year where all of a sudden they start challenging for victories and kind of bring

themselves into a constructors fight. I think they're already too far off for that.

But I think they could continue to make decent progress. But then Aston Martin's

another one brought an upgrade just ahead of the summer break seemed to make

quite a big change in terms of performance. Saaba was another one that did that couple of races

earlier. But again, we've just talked about the advantages that's brought to Portoletto and

Halkenberg and then teams that really turned the taps off early. I mean, Williams is one of them

where they really made a very clear decision quite close to the start of this season that

once the upgrade stopped, they stopped. They wouldn't be going back to it. It's fully on

the 2026 car. And that's part of a wider vision of James Vowles of hitting 2026 on the right foot.

So yeah, I think there you will see just whatever trends you were seeing before the summer break,

the certain teams starting to progress. They might accentuate a little bit,

but then it probably all flattens out because everyone is thinking of 2026 at this point.

So we were taking a look back at the podium predictions.

Yes, you had a stellar week in Hungary. In fact, I didn't do too bad.

You were the only one who scored points. I went pointless for the first time since,

I think they said it was like Saudi Nate went pointless again, just because Nate has just

Nate's been bad. I still lead our championship though, but dude, you're on like my heels. I

have 14 points. You have 13 and Nate has seven. So at least I've doubled him up.

Just a reminder, we get a point for every position we guess correctly. If by chance we'd

actually hit the trifecta, we would get six points, but obviously that has not happened yet.

I would just like to say that this is actually a lot harder than what you would think.

Nate did submit his picks for this coming weekend already. So he's going with

Oscar to win, Lando in second, Max third. And as we do, I have written down my predictions

first because you and I tend to pick very much the same. So mine are written down,

but I will let you go next. Who are you predicting? What's your podium for Zandvoort?

Okay. In third place, and we'll double down on all the things I've just been

saying about Ferrari and say Charlotte Clerk takes third place. Okay. What got me those two

points in Hungary was faith in Lando beating Oscar because you guys both put Oscar beating Lando as

one team. So I'm going to stick with what worked for me in Hungary. I don't fully believe it in

my gut, but I'm going to say Oscar Piatri in second place, Lando Norris wins the race.

Wait, where's Max? I know I talked about Max and the weather and all that kind of stuff,

and there is logic to put Max in that top three, but they were really bad in Hungary.

And I'm just not 100% sure that, yeah, I think Ferrari are on the ascendancy. So yeah,

that's why I put the clerk in there. But hey, he'd be a good shout if you haven't

noticed a good shout. So here's fun. We all three have different picks by

a pretty decent, well, yeah, I was a pretty decent. I'm going to put Leclerc in third.

So you and I are the same there, but Nate doesn't have Leclerc on his podium.

I'm taking Max second. He's not on your podium. He's on Nate's. And I'm going to go the same

thing with Nate Oscar wins. I know Oscar was not in your scenario.

So again, I think it goes to a little, yes, Lando was sort of going in the right direction

at the end of the break. But I think, I don't know, Oscars, I really like Oscars to meaner.

And Oscar knows, obviously, that if he's going to continue to do what he's set out to do and

win the championship, he needs to win the race again. He sort of needs to remind himself.

He needs to remind everyone in McLaren, like, this is mine. And I just feel like his sort of,

he doesn't have the same. I'm trying to figure out the way to describe it. And the only way

that I can think of it is he doesn't have the same FU attitude that sort of comes across

from like, or staff in, but there is a calmness. There is a coolness. There is a,

I'm here for business attitude out of piastry. And I just, my gut just said, go with him.

So that's, that's where I'm going. That's where I'm going with this.

When I mentioned my gut feeling early and how I'm kind of going against it,

it was along similar lines that Oscars probably going to accelerate these next few races and

build a bit of a leading championship. But mine's partly wishful thinking,

because I want a close championship for as long as possible. I know Nate and I get

accused of British bias and all the rest of it. Really, what I want to do is turn up

in Abu Dhabi and not know who's going to win. And then whoever wins, you know,

it's fine by me. But yeah, I'd like it to go as long as possible. And that

kind of requires Lando continuing this little run that he's got going.

I mean, if it can come down to like the last race, last, I'm going to get real specific.

I wanted to come down to the last lap, last race of the season. Let's do that all over again,

maybe without the FIA's involvement just to make it better. Yeah, there we go.

So you travel this week.

Yes. Tomorrow, in fact, yeah.

Okay. You travel this week, maybe next week, we can get the game properly all together again.

That sounds good. Remember, leave us a comment. Hit us up with that like button wherever you're

listening to the podcast. Subscribe to the ESPN F1 YouTube channel because we are there all the time,

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We'll see you guys next week. Bye.

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