Ep. 302: What Is The Future Of Cars?

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Hey guys, welcome to this very special episode of TFL Car Chat.

And if you remember, one of our special guests who is a popular guest is Motor Man.

And he is here with me today to talk about all things automotive.

But more specifically, we're going to talk about plastic car prices.

We're going to talk about what's happening in the auto industry.

And we're going to talk about big changes on your channel as well.

Very, very big changes.

First off, thank you again for having me here.

Thank you for letting our viewers share in your knowledge.

Actually in sharing my hotel room.

In your hotel room, yes.

If you guys recall, we did a little walk around of the quail a few weeks ago.

And back then we thought, you know, it'd be fun to talk about what's happening

with the car industry.

But let's first talk about plastic car prices.

What's happening with plastic car prices?

You know, it's a fascinating business because it's one of those things where you have a

couple of key events that dictate the prices.

And it starts in January with Scottsdale.

And then you get like a blip with Emilia and RetroMobile.

And then you get Pebble Beach.

And that's been the case for, you know, as long as you've been alive because

you are older than me.

Thank you for pointing that out.

I appreciate it.

I always like to point that out.

But I have shorts which makes me younger.

But you're wearing hocus.

Which makes me older.

Sure that.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I have to tell you a story.

So first of all, you know, I used to do triathlon.

And I started wearing hocus maybe like 15 years ago before anybody else.

Yes.

Before men who own Corvettes.

Oh, you own three Corvettes.

I did not.

Yeah.

And sure that.

And, you know, I love them because they had this huge like pad which not only cushioned

my running, which was good for me because I have a bad back, but also maybe taller.

You know, it's a win-win.

And I was kind of a hocus evangelist and then like maybe four years ago, I was at the airport

and I started looking around at hocus at every old part in the airport who was wearing them

including me.

And I'm like, oh, I tried to win myself.

I went to Soccanese.

Oh, no.

Soccanese.

No, no.

I went to Nike's, but I just, you know, I still run a lot and these are the most

comfortable.

And I know they're old party, but yeah, I still own them.

But really technically, I'm no better.

I'm catching me wearing my runners because I went for a walk this morning.

What are you running?

I'm a new balance guy.

Okay.

I've been a new, I mean, I think we've never discussed this on camera, but they know

that you are a triathlete.

I never did the triathlete.

I'm a long, I've been a distance runner all my life.

Yeah.

So I've run many marathons in these.

I just, one of these things like if it ain't broke, I don't fix it.

And I know that people give new balance runners a lot of crap.

We were talking about that.

What's the fastest marathon you've run?

I'm proud to say it's 348.

I ran Vegas in four, the worst number possible.

You couldn't do 359.

I was so close.

It's fine now.

Four.

Oh my gosh.

This is when I was running like eight, 30 miles.

Now I'm running.

I was a guy.

I'm not joking.

There was a guy.

I do a lot of trail running because I think it's better for you than the

matter of concrete.

Literally, there was like this 80-year-old guy who almost had a walker.

He was like this, right?

And he's in front of me and I'm running behind him.

I'm running and listening to my podcast and I'm like, damn, I'm not catching up to

the guy in the walker.

You know, getting old sucks.

Now I literally think we are two old men sitting in rocking chairs screaming and get off a lot.

I'll tell you one more story and we'll get back to these numbers.

I recently shot with Bob Lutz.

Okay.

94 years old.

That dude is incredible.

I know.

Sharp.

Still drives his DR1 every day when it's summer.

You know, we just bought a Viper, which is one of his.

His car.

Yeah.

The original Viper.

I shot in front of Viper, GTS, Coop, number two.

He has serial number two.

Of course he does.

It's a prototype.

Of course he does.

Anyway, an hour and a half before the shoot, my back went out.

And I'd love to tell you it was like acrobatic sex.

No.

It was in the shower.

It's the worst.

And when you get all of you like bend over to pick up, you know, some penny or something

and you can't bend back.

It's like, what the hell?

It was literally in the shower.

I was washing my foot.

A lot of foot stuff in this episode.

This is a foot.

This is foot chat.

Maybe we should start in a little bit of a foot chat.

Welcome to Foot Chat.

So I crawl out of the shower.

I crawl this golf bar so I can barely get in the car because I've had those like the

Recaro type seats.

I get over to Bob's.

Bob's 94.

We're at his farm.

He's running circles around me.

I'm literally wrenched over.

You know, I have to say, and I think it must be because I'm getting older,

but I hate.

So I was recently at, you know, Pebble Beach with BMW and they were kind enough to give

me.

Technically, you're still here in Pebble Beach.

That's where we're recording this here.

You just let you behind the curtain.

And anyway, I was terrified because I'm flying in and they gave me an M4 competition.

And you know, BMW has those sports seats and Porsche has them as well.

Well, the one that has this.

Support for your cramp.

Yeah.

And then they've got the carbon fiber sides.

And oh my gosh.

I love those seats.

I was so terrified.

You are such an old man because they're so painful to get in and out of right there.

So because I'm also wider in some ways than you are in a lot of ways, actually.

But yeah, I can't get in and out of them.

I hate sitting in them and luckily this was a convertible and it had the regular seat

not like the competition seat, which would have been.

I don't know.

Absolutely.

I don't know if your audience knows this, but sometimes you don't have the competition

seats in your.

Hell.

Yeah.

I've got the carbon fiber.

I only do this.

All I do is this and this and that is it.

You are crazy.

They look great, dude, especially with the tartan.

Yeah.

Oh, the tartan school.

But the seats, I got to go on a Porsche trip.

We went to the mountains north of Atlanta.

Yeah.

And I was there.

Oh, I was there.

Yeah.

And we were in this car with these seats.

Oh.

Well, you had the red one, the Carmine red one.

They had the seats.

Magnificent when you're driving.

But man, when you got to get in and out of them, it's an acrobatic seat.

You're so old.

So a little bit behind the seats.

And they don't adjust.

You're right.

They just go like this and like this.

That's it.

Yeah.

Your audience doesn't know this.

Right.

But technically, they think I just do these collaborations with you.

Yeah.

Technically, I'm kind of like behind the scenes crew at TFL because I am Nathan's

de facto cameraman sometimes.

Yeah.

So people have been wondering where Nathan is and Nathan moved to your back of

the woods.

He's my neighbor.

He's my neighbor and a member of my school.

Did you find him his house?

No, I didn't find him his house, but I made him his wife.

An offer she couldn't refuse.

Okay.

Hopefully it wasn't clean.

She was moving to LA.

There was no chance on God's great earth I was letting them move to the valley

where they're from.

So basically, I sold her on the idea of you got to move to the South Bay because

in the South Bay, the school districts are great, the public school districts.

And we have law and order, and the police are great.

And it's safe there.

Well, you've been...

And she bought it hook, line and sinker.

You've been doing all of this video work.

So thank you very much.

Or a lot of it.

You're quite welcome.

And Nathan is incredible on camera.

He's an incredible writer.

But let's face it, like technically this isn't...

Technically he's not.

This is not his thing.

We love Nathan.

We love him.

Nathan, we love you too.

But yeah, technically it's not your thing.

He's...

The other thing that they don't know about Nathan, he is the most incredible

one-take Charlie I've ever seen in my life.

He could literally deliver war and peace.

And there will be a war going on in the background.

It would not phase him at all.

Every take he does is one take.

Consummate professional.

Anyway, speaking of his profession, so when I'm shooting, I don't know if you're aware

of this.

I'm not.

When we go around and do his walk-arounds and he opens up the trunk, he always likes

to point out this is where Roman stores his Ben gay.

And oh, by the way, did you know that Roman is afraid of elevators?

You know...

That is a rumor he has started.

And now I actually tell people that too.

He's like the nasty, bigger brother I never had at the younger brother.

Younger brother.

Yeah.

Well, I'm not saying that because of course I'm saying that.

So what he does or what he used to do, and I kind of miss it now, is every time we had

a test car, right, he would get it.

And then you could like set a station so that it would let you know when a certain song

was playing, right?

So the first thing he would do is always turn it to like Ozzy's Boneyard.

Yes.

Turn up the volume.

Exactly what he does.

Yes.

All the way.

Yeah.

And then he knows I hate Van Halen with the passion.

Yeah.

What's wrong with you?

I just can't stand Van Halen.

I hate Panama.

I hate...

And then it was about a car.

I hate that van.

You're only old.

You're a communist.

No.

No, dude.

I'm a communist.

What do you mean?

I love Led Zeppelin.

I love Pink Floyd.

This is my era, right?

Yeah.

But I just never got into Van Halen.

Anyway, so, and then what he does is like whenever a Van Halen song comes on, he'll

set it so that it reminds you on the radio that there is a Van Halen song playing.

We miss you, Nathan.

All right.

Well, I don't miss him because I see him every night at the cigar lounge.

You see him a lot.

Yeah.

Obviously, big auctions happening here at...

Oh, so we're getting back to our topic.

Yeah.

Double beat.

Yeah.

I've been buying a lot of classic cars.

Well, hold on.

I have.

We've got to set the stage here.

It's very important.

So that's the way it was for, since you were born, which was many years ago when

the model was just new.

Right.

Yeah.

But then bring a trailer came along.

And then bring a trailer.

Cars and bids.

And then P-car, cars and bids, and then all these other groups that have done

it.

And now you no longer need to wait until these key tentpole events in order to

send your car to auction.

Plus, why do you even need to send it anywhere?

So the market is constantly changing.

So what's happened now?

I would like to point out.

I would say, I love bring a trailer.

You know, I was here 13 years ago with the Tatra 603.

I sold it on bring a trailer.

This was when, you know...

I'm still mad about that.

I know.

I couldn't afford to keep it back then.

At the early days of bring a trailer...

Yeah, but you couldn't buy it back.

I could, yeah.

That car didn't appreciate.

No, no, no.

It's never an appreciate.

It may be in 50 years.

Anyway, so I love bring a trailer.

I just bought another car and bring a trailer.

But the problem is, I always feel like there's a 25% premium.

Not just a buyer's or seller's premium, but a real premium.

If you could find that same car on Facebook Marketplace or on Craigslist, which you

can...

Oh, it's full retail.

Full retail.

No matter what the car is.

It is always retail or higher.

So I have a passion for a car no one loves, a 1979 to 84 El Dorado.

I'm looking for a very specific one.

I just bought an El Dorado.

A 7984?

No.

I bought a 2001 North Star El Dorado.

Oh, I saw that.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's not a good El Dorado.

Look, I have the same passion.

That's not an El Dorado.

When my...

It is an El Dorado.

It drives like an El Dorado.

It's not an El Dorado.

But I'm on the same page.

When my dad came to America and he finally made it big, he bought...

He bought Lincoln.

No, he bought an El Dorado.

First, before the Lincoln.

First, a brown El Dorado.

Yeah.

I've actually seen that.

I was there when he uncovered that, Lincoln.

No, he bought an El Dorado and then because a buddy of his brought that 75th anniversary

Lincoln Continental Mark V, he also got it.

You know how that is, right?

You buy something so...

Yeah, that's what immigrants are.

Yeah.

For us, it was Buick's.

Yeah.

But before then, he had that...

I think it was like a 74 or 5 El Dorado with the 500 CC.

It was a massive engine.

CC.

No.

Cubic Inch.

Yeah.

CC.

That would be a K car.

No, it was Cubic Inch.

It was like some massive like...

Massive engine.

It was 7.3 liters.

It was stupid.

Produced minimal horsepower.

Yeah.

Anyway, so I want one of these cars but I want a very specific...

You want a convertible?

I want no actually.

I want the no-land-out roof and I want the factory-assed roof.

Very hard to find.

However, there was a car that came up on Bring-A-Trailer and it was a 5,000-mile

car.

And I'm like, you know what?

I could deal with a convertible because it was literally even the original gold keys, both

of them.

It had the cassette.

I got the gold key with my 2001.

The whole thing?

I have gold...

Well, a gold plate of key, but go ahead.

This car, I thought for sure, 5,000 original miles, you know, those cars, they're kind

of still like 5, 10 grand, but this car, I figured, it'll go with 30.

So I put it in a bid and cut it off at 30.

Yeah.

And I sat.

And up in about half an hour, I thought I was getting me a Burgundy on Burgundy,

5,000-mile, 84 convertible.

How much do you think it went for?

How many miles?

5,000?

5,000.

That's a hard one.

New with a wrapper, sticker, everything.

Okay, if this was on Craig's list, I could tell you, this would be a 10,000 on the

car all day.

If it didn't have 5,000 miles, if it was like a 50,000-mile car, it'd be a 10,000.

Even a beautiful one would be 15.

Maybe 15 at its most.

I'm going to say it probably went for 40, 50, some...

52,000.

Yeah, I know.

It's crazy.

You can't drive it.

Anyway, so...

And the other thing about those cars is most of them are still relatively affordable,

70s, big-ass American luxury cars, because they're just so freaking big, right?

They take up a lot of space.

Do you know Adam Wodecki?

I don't.

Okay, you got to meet him.

Okay.

Great guy.

He does the channel Rare, Classic Cars, and all those...

Basically, he's a bean counter, he's the CFO or something like that, I've

eaten.

Basically, on the side, he does a classic car channel just of melee Zara cars.

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And he's got like a barn full of these Melezera cars.

He brought a Mercury marquee, like literally the car from Hawaii 5-0, like a carbon copy

of it.

But with every option, they have like 20 grand for it.

Yeah, they're cheap.

They're cheap.

Because what happens is, those are good cars to actually buy on Craigsist or Facebook

Marketplace because they haven't percolated all the way up to the 5,000 mile one.

We found that, you know, that was somebody's father or grandfather and then somebody at

a dealership usually because dealerships also look out four cars on those two sales platforms

and then eventually they get them and then the dealership puts it up on, bring a trailer

because they know they're paying retail.

That's how they make their money.

But you could get those cars if you have the time and you're willing to poke around.

I'll give you a very graphic example of this.

When I first moved to LA, I had the idea that, this was in 2006, I had the idea that, you

know what?

I'm going to buy a classic.

I'm going to do LA Classic.

So I start looking around and I find a 1973 Pontiac Granville convertible.

That's cool.

It's a cool car.

I'll look for your El Dorado.

What year do you want?

79 to 84.

Okay, late 70s, early 80s.

What color?

Ideally, anything that's got a contrast, so white with saddle or like burgundy with saddle,

decent miles.

I want a car I can drive but I want it in better condition because they're not at the

point where the value of those cars, you can restore them and get anywhere near that.

No, no, no.

I don't think they're ever going to go to the point to cover the race.

Like I said, they're too big.

They take up too much space.

I would sooner buy the $20,000 car because it's cheaper to buy the $20,000 car than

buy the $5,000 car, make it into the $20,000 car.

You know what I love about it?

But it's got to be a factory Astro roof.

It can't be a cut-it.

That's the most important part.

Okay, all right.

You know what I love about those old El Dorados?

They had these little like marker lights on the front wings, as Grinch would say, right?

And it would tell you when the turn signal was on, it would tell you when the brakes

were on.

There were little tiny lights that were...

I probably shouldn't say this on camera because now I'm just jacking the price

up.

But the reason why I love it is my favorite Aunt Christine.

She used to take me up and down the boogie down the Bronx and the Bronx were the hard

way.

And I was on top of the world because my family, we didn't have any money.

We drove Chevy's and maybe got the Buick's.

So let's...

One more thing.

Yeah.

I was listening to Chris Harris' podcast.

Yeah.

And he's absolutely right.

He was talking about like how badly lug-jury cars drive these days, how poorly...

Because what's happened is...

Cars or SUVs?

Lugs or SUVs?

Cars or SUVs.

It doesn't matter.

Both.

There was that El Dorado, which is obviously a luxury car.

And then you had a Porsche, which is obviously a sports car.

And now we've conflated both of them.

I agree.

So I'm here with BMW and we have every M5 Touring, M5, X6M, and they all ride sports

cars.

But those are M's.

That's different.

But they're also luxury cars.

They are luxury cars.

And even...

I was just on the Bentley program, so I was driving all the Bentley's.

The Bentayga of the Continental.

And they all ride pretty rough compared to that El Dorado.

You know what the best luxury car made right now?

Tell me.

Dodge Charger EV.

That does ride well.

Drives like a luxury car.

I love it.

It's a long ass wheelbase.

The EV Porsche system is garbage.

It crapped out on me twice.

It's getting replaced by the six pack.

Which I'm excited about.

But the thing is, I love the proportions of the car.

I love the look of the car.

And I love the way it drives.

It's American.

It's not a muscle car and it's not a charger.

That's what it is.

Anyway, so we know who you are.

You know the Hellcat's coming back, right?

Absolutely.

The only thing that he hasn't put on the table yet is the Pacifica.

Everything else is going to get Hellcat.

They are literally getting a shoehorn out and it'll get in there, I promise you.

But here's my question before we get to this.

All right?

You're going to re...

One point on it.

He said he wanted this to be a very factual number of podcasts.

You're so knowledgeable.

I love your insight.

So that's what I'm asking.

So they're going to take all this stuff off the shelf over at Stellantis.

And they're going to shoehorn, hemmies and Hellcat engines into everything.

Are people going to care?

I mean, one of my favorite trucks we ever owned was a TRX.

But I wouldn't buy it again.

I've been there, done there.

Why would I want to go down that road again?

I kind of feel like, yeah, everybody's asking for it.

But when they actually do it, will people buy it?

Because it's something that has been there and has been available and the reason...

Totally disagree.

You think people will just buy enough?

Absolutely.

If you're going to put a Hemi in a modern day charger, Coke bottle design charger, people

are going to buy it.

And you know what?

You know what's selling?

Not the TRX, the RHL.

So I'll tell you why.

I don't think it's going to sell.

We have...

We...

Buy our cars.

I'd love to know why an old man thinks it's not going to sell.

Oh, God, just stop with the old man.

Bless you.

You're worse than Nathan.

But here's what I don't think it's going to sell.

We buy all of our cars from this giant truck dealership in Brighton, Johnson Auto Plaza.

They also sell Dodge products, they also sell Chevy products, they also sell Jeep products.

And I remember every time I go there, there's a line of chargers and challengers.

Chargers and challengers from like 2023 that are sitting there unsold with Hemmys or

with Scatpacks.

Are they all red eyes?

No, no, they're not Hellcats, they're either the Pentastars or they're the Scatpac, which

has what, the 6.4 in it.

But I think people just got tired of them.

They were just like, they had their moment in the sun and you can't go back to that

moment in time, right?

I remember when the Hellcat came out, it was so exciting.

You remember that?

But that is an older design.

You're not taking into account that this is a new design, it drives differently.

I think it will appeal to more people.

The big question is, what will their pricing be?

The pricing has gotten like, I was blown away when they sent that car to me, I thought

it was so cool.

I got the blue with the demonic, $87,000.

And now I spoke with one of the Stalantis, you know, the guy with Scott, great dude,

distilled that 6-packs not going to be cheap, 6-packs going to be 60 grand plus

once you add in all the stuff.

And yes, I get it, it's 500 horsepower, but you're going to tell me that someone is

going to say, let's take 73 grand as the average price of the car, the transaction price for

all the stuff you want on it.

You're going to buy that or an M3 or an M4?

Probably neither, but I see what you're saying.

If I had to choose between those two, I'd probably go with the BMW.

I can't feel like I've been there done though, you're putting old tech back

into these cars.

No.

The charger challenge here is different, but let's look at the RHO.

This is your EV side coming out.

Do you know the RHO?

Love the RHO.

I drove Nathan's.

RHO is just a RAM.

It's no different.

They kind of jazzed up the interior, made it a little bit nicer.

But it's no-

The suspension all changed.

It's great.

It's no different than a TRX.

It's just kind of a little bit less power.

That's the point is the TRX was a lesser engine.

Right, and now they're going to put the bigger engine back into it.

I'm like, okay, I've been there done that.

I disagree with you.

At least give me like a hairhorse power.

I think there is an opportunity where you do cars like that, but you right size the supply.

And that's what's wrong.

This is kind of the headline of the whole industry.

No one's right sizing supply.

Are you saying having supply and demand match?

Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

Right size instead of just cranking cars out.

Kind of like back in the day, once when the virus hit.

And then all of a sudden they canceled their programs.

They said, we're going to lower our forecast.

They not only went to Wall Street and said we're going to lower our forecast.

They very critically went to their chip suppliers and said, we're having our forecast.

We don't need those chips.

And chips are the kind of thing where it's like steering the Titanic.

You need to know years in advance of what your supply is.

So they did that.

And then they were forced to right size their business.

And then what happened?

Transaction prices went up.

Now granted, that was an over correction.

So transaction prices went up too much.

But as things started coming online, Toyota was a perfect example.

They did right size their business at exactly the point where it was equilibrium.

So they could maintain transaction prices at MSRP, not over, not under.

And that makes for a healthy business.

Yeah.

I mean, but American automakers have always overproduced.

Not just American.

Okay.

But the big three have always overproduced and then they have, especially in the truck

road, and then they had to have put the money on the hood to get people to buy them.

So even today, you can go to your local four dealer and pick up an F-150.

We just bought ours at employee pricing.

And it was $8,000 off the sticker.

The sticker actually was like $7,000.

The sticker was like $69,000.

We bought it for $63,000.

So why chase volume and try to fill your factories, basically keep the factory lines

going?

Why not light size the supply?

And then you have a healthy, well, yeah, it is unions.

Why not have a healthy business?

You've got these contracts with unions.

That's what we're going to get into.

You want to talk about tariffs and all this stuff.

There's a big function of that.

But at the end of the day, right sizing supply is a function of we have to look at

what is our supply?

We have to look at what are our employee costs?

How much, how many resources do we need in terms of like floor square footage?

All of that has to be taken into account.

And then all of a sudden you change your business from something like Ford where they oversupply

or undersupply to something more like Subaru where they kind of hit the market and I'm

not a Subaru fan.

I know you aren't.

I know you got your head handed to you by Subaru.

You put out that video and I love that it was opened with Nathan and then Subaru

calls you.

What are you doing?

Yeah.

They did.

But you know what they deserve because they're idiots.

They're idiots.

Who do you, the people you, the one outlet you're not going to give a Subaru to is the

one that's based in the Rockies that's known for trucks that literally put truck trend out

of business.

That makes no sense.

Yeah.

It's kind of crazy.

I know.

I normally don't say nice things about you but that's a business case.

I don't know.

I feel like my bottom line with Subaru at the end of the day is you know they

need to sell Subaru's.

We don't need to review Subaru's.

You know we've done just fine.

I don't review Subaru's for 10 years and if they want to give us one I would love, I

would be happy to review it.

Over the last 15 years we have sold I would say hundreds of thousands of

Shavis Fords.

You've got to know where you actually, you've written your own check for a

Subaru just to kind of move the point.

But I'm saying you know I'm here.

People come up to me and the first thing they tell you is I bought my whatever it

is.

I get that all the time.

I don't get it with Subaru as well.

Our reviews, and if Subaru doesn't appreciate that and they'd rather have smaller, less effective,

less...

Because the other thing that we do, I think, I'm going to kind of pound my own chest here,

which is hard, right?

And you do this too.

It's hard to pound your own chest?

No, you almost got killed doing this.

What we do, right now, the big trend on YouTube car reviews is you stand in front of the

car and you point at things, which is fine, which is fine.

There are people who are very good at it.

I'm not good at it.

I admit that.

But what we do is we actually take the vehicle and we use it the way that the consumer would

use it.

Walk around as opposed to actually going in the car.

So with a truck we tow, we haul with an off-roader, we take it off-road, we put it in danger.

I do living with episodes.

I totally get it.

It's hard.

That's hard.

It takes a lot of time.

Manufacturers don't love it because you're using the car, you're potentially damaging

the car.

Obviously, we don't damage them.

You're putting it potentially in harm's way if you're taking it off-road.

That's hard.

So I'm very proud of the team for doing that.

And the upside of that is when the vehicle says it does something that actually does

it, then people are like, wow, I can take my Subaru and actually take it into the

mountains of Colorado, or I can take my truck and tow 10,000 pounds with it, and that's

a huge upside.

And that's why people watch our reviews to make their mind, this is just anyway.

Let's go back to classic cars.

I want to make a huge point here, though.

I thought you brought up a very big point and we can't drive past this.

So-

Did you almost got killed?

I almost got killed.

People are wondering about that, I bet.

Well, people, while they can click on it, well, maybe you can give them a link to

my episode.

Yeah, I'll put a link where he almost got killed here.

I met the front end of a Tesla and had to get an extra two months of quarantine

over you guys.

When you were reviewing a Gullwing.

A Gullwing.

That's the only reason why the door wasn't ripped off, because it was a Gullwing.

Seriously.

It's a hell of a story.

Yeah, absolutely.

So, huge point here, and this is a differentiator of kind of what you, and to a lesser extent

what I do, you kind of got away, you still do the reviews because you have so many channels,

but you've kind of gotten away from doing the reviews, and I think that is what has

galvanized you by doing these like, I love you, man, but driving to the top of

Alaska in an electric car is the dumbest idea on the planet, but it made for views.

Or you sitting in a car with Nathan driving across the country.

Or driving a touch-er with Nathan across the country.

Just being anywhere with Nathan is a problem, but to be in a car for 48 hours with him.

I don't allow him to smoke cigars.

We joke, though.

We think this we joke, but it's that evergreen content that does the best.

For me, I piloted the Goodyear Blimp.

This episode is 16 years old, and it still does crazy views.

I built the concept car from start to finish.

Still does crazy views.

And it's those...

It's different.

It's like that.

You do these TFL off-road, like when you and I first met, you came to me, and I'll

never forget it, you go, I love those Moto Man minutes you do, and what did I say back

to you?

Don't recall, sorry.

I said, I'm jealous of you because you have a lock on the Rocky Mountains.

You're the only one doing it.

Yeah, well, there are a lot of other YouTube media outlets in the Rocky Mountains.

There's some in...

Oh, two or three!

There's some in Salt Lake.

Yeah, the everyday driver guys, we're trying to know those, yeah.

Anyway, let's talk about auctions.

So what's happening in the auction?

I kind of feel like the market used to be very settled, and now it's very unsettled.

Well, it depends on the car.

So we literally, you can see that I love me some fancy catalogs.

So this is Broad Arrow, which is a Hagerty company.

And then this is RM.

I think they're one of the best at this still, and then there's Gooding.

Is Hagerty going to take over the entire world now?

They already have.

They have taken over the class.

They're buying everything.

Yeah, they look...

They're M&A guy.

He's seen a deal he doesn't like.

I think that's what it is.

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Anyway, so a couple things happen, I want to point out a couple things, give you actually

real data.

Last night I went to the Gooding auction before I started the Mercedes party.

He was, this guy's hobnobbing with CEOs, meanwhile I'm doing the work and going into

the auctions and seeing what's really happening in the market.

I have not hobnobbed a single seat.

That's why this guy has like 85 cars and I have one.

I have not.

Your car is worth more than all my 85s combined.

Okay, that's a little point, yeah.

So I went there, okay, couple of cars were up on the block.

Number one, a 246 Dino.

This is, okay, I'm not a Ferrari guy, but I love the way they look.

Dinos were like for the longest time.

They were worthless.

You could pick one up for like 20, 30K.

And then during the virus, they went to 600,000, like you got to have your

head examined.

600,000 for a Dino, when for 500, you couldn't buy a Daytona.

People are probably like, you idiots, you're talking about half a million dollars.

Get this, last night, black on red, with the right options, take a guess how much it went

for.

So you're saying that they went up to like 600,000, so.

They went to 600 over the virus.

Yeah.

So what do you think they did?

I'm going to say a million now.

900 grand.

Yeah.

But at the same auction, a couple of racing Porsches didn't even bring reserve.

You and I both drove the exact same car.

Race cars are rough.

No, no, these are like, they're not, these are race set up, they're street cars.

Okay, our street cars.

You and I both, in 2021, drove the exact same STO.

Okay.

We were on the different waves of the same car.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

How much did STO go?

That car you and I drove was 375 grand.

How much did you think it?

No sale for it.

Dude, there's one parked in front of my hotel right now, in STO.

How much did you think it?

No sale.

Every STO.

How much did an STO go up?

So those were what?

They no sale.

They said 375.

Was that blue heritage livery car we saw?

Did they go up?

I'm going to say it went down.

You're right.

I'm going to say it went to maybe 250.

Man, you're a clairvoyant.

It no sale to 240.

Yeah.

That's not even base money for the Otacon back in the day.

So I, well, once again, I kind of feel like I'm sometimes ahead of the trend.

I'm really tired of race cars for the road.

I'm just really tired of race cars.

Can I date you here a little bit?

Yeah.

I think it was an 87.

Yeah.

560SEC AMG, 6 liter wide body.

Yeah, cool.

What do you think that went for?

It was in beautiful shape.

It's a beautiful car.

I think it went for a lot.

A hundred grand?

I don't know.

I don't know that much.

So a regular one is probably worth like 10 to 50, depending on the amount.

I'm going to say 150.

500.

Yeah.

I'm going to bring these numbers up.

It's not like the market, oh my God, the market is so healthy, or oh my God, the market's in

the toilet.

It depends on segment, depends on the sector you're looking at.

I also feel like...

It's gotten more segmented, and I believe it's gotten more segmented because there's

more places you can now sell your car.

Not just here.

Here's my belief, and this is, I'm good at like the big picture.

So you're right.

You're much better at the specifics.

So I don't know specifics, but here's my big picture.

And I just, I'm using this because of me.

I feel like one of the reasons we bought the 94 Viper, and the Viper's are weird, right?

The older they are, the cheaper they are.

It goes the...

Usually the car is the older they are.

I love how that car looks like it's built in a shed.

It is built in a shed.

Well, well, now that factory's a shed.

Anyway, here's the thing.

I think people are really starting to crave the analog experience, and I know that,

and I know that a little bit because people are manual swapping Ferraris, people are

manual swapping Murcielagos, right?

They're swapping because they crave this like connection with the car.

And so the more screens that people, that modern car makers put into cars, I think the

more those classic cars that really feel like you're part of the machine, right?

You know, when you're like, you're not like electronically tuned in, you're actually

physically part of the machine.

You're moving the big gears around, you know what I mean?

You feel all the mechanics.

And I think the more screens you have, the more those cars are going to become valuable.

I'm going to give you a caveat with, I'm going to give you a, I'm going to agree and disagree

with the caveat.

And I'm going to give you a ridiculous example of, once again, people are going to laugh

at us like, look at YouTube jackasses, you rich dudes, you guys are idiots and out

of touch.

Bugatti Turbion.

Yeah.

With a little...

Have you seen this thing?

I haven't seen it, but I've heard it.

I mean, I've seen it on video.

I went and shot it.

Yeah.

It is exquisite.

It's not a Bugatti gun.

Turbion.

It's got...

So when he says Turbion.

The watch movement.

It literally is a Swiss watch.

It's a bouquet of Swiss watches.

I wish I used that term in the episode.

It's a bouquet of Swiss watches, even down to the battery meter, okay?

And then it sits as your IP.

There's only one screen in that car.

It pops up.

It's only there for the reverse camera, which is mandated by law.

Anything else is toggle switches.

It's like getting into the Luftwaffe.

You have toggle switches above you.

It is exquisite.

And the reason why I bring it up is not because, oh my God, a $4.6 million car is now analog.

I bring it up because that's where the style is set and it's going to cascade down.

You mark my words.

I think the folks at Lamborghini are going to do it next.

And I'll go so far as to saying, I had the guy...

I'm sure they're going to do it.

You and I both were interviewing.

I had the guy who runs Lamborghini and I asked him point blank about...

Winklevin?

Yeah.

How do you deal with timelessness?

And he says, I think we've gotten to the point where we've got too many screens in

the car.

Glad I'd admitted that on camera.

Yeah.

I think they're there now.

But before we continue with this old man grumpy-ness, you've got some big

news to share.

Yeah.

I do have some very big news to share.

I'm making some huge changes with my business and my channel.

So as you guys may know, I started my channel Moto Man TV 16 years ago.

That's kind of when we met.

You started around the same time.

And we had very, very explosive growth very early on.

And then things kind of plateaued and we've had like very slow growth since then.

And I've gotten to the point where I love what I do, but I realized I didn't

love the way I did it.

Because I made some very significant changes.

We are moving Moto Man TV.

So we're moving it to what I'm calling the M-M-T-V network.

I like the L-M-M-T-V.

So it's a lot easier.

It rolls off the tongue.

M-M-T-V.

It does.

Yeah.

So we're going to segment everything.

So instead of putting everything on one channel, the goal is let's put

reviews over here or moving car episodes over here.

And then we started, and if you're aware of this, we started a podcast back

in 2014.

I remember inside the Moto Man Studio.

And I was at the Peterson Automotive Museum.

Yeah.

You were ahead of your time.

That was way ahead of my time.

And we did that live.

And then we put it up.

You were doing podcasts on YouTube before people were actually, it was a thing, basically.

I was the one first putting cars up on the rack.

And now everybody else copied me on that.

It's a lot of firsts.

But the point is I wanted to have fun with it again.

You're welcome, Savage Beast.

Yeah.

Mark.

You're welcome, Mark.

Yeah.

I've done that.

I've told him to his face on camera that he is the ear of the car review world.

I love you, Mark.

You know I love you.

Oh, he and I also, we're both, we don't like that.

We're both agree that we're, we don't like that.

Okay.

Anyway, the point is-

He's from Chicago.

So he's-

Great guy.

And Jack, great guy.

I can't say no to him.

I love the Chicago connection.

Anyway, so we're changing and we're moving everything.

So the podcast is not only coming back, it's going to be a completely separate show

and it's going to be a show that will go on in perpetuity instead of we do these ten

episode runs.

So there'll be MMTV cars, MMTV podcast, and then we're going to do something a little

bit different because I'm not a big fan of vertical video and we've admitted we're

both old men.

I am going to change things up a little bit.

Hey, you're the old fart man.

I was on TikTok.

Yeah, you were.

I learned my lesson from, so I learned my lesson.

We didn't jump on Instagram when it came out and then we tried to kind of build an audience.

It was very hard.

And so when TikTok came about, we were right on it, so that's how we got 1.3 million.

Now it'd be impossible.

Yeah.

And who knows?

It'll be gone tomorrow, maybe, but at least we were there.

So what we're doing is we're segmenting out different shorter content.

And notice I say shorter content.

So-

Horizontal shorter content?

Both.

Okay.

Each one of those channels.

So you'll have MMTV cars.

This Bugatti tourbillon.

Are you hiring a staff?

Because this is a lot of work.

I got hired two guys.

I figured you'd have to.

It's a lot of work.

Because at the end of the day, when I said the big reason I'm doing this and I didn't

like the way I did it, one of the big reasons I didn't like it was I was just barely keeping

up to try to feed the beast.

And as a result, I wasn't having fun with it anymore.

And so now this guy, I've hired these two guys, Josh and Brett.

They're fantastic.

Good.

Brett has done amazing.

His vision for the post-production, like for example, the Revuelto episode, we were doing

the planning for the episode and I was talking with some folks at our cigar lounge.

And they were telling me, like, do you know what Revuelto means?

I'm like, no.

And apparently-

The writing bowl?

Well, they'd name them after a bowl.

But what they didn't realize was in Spanish, it means scrambled eggs.

Hey, do you think that these European, I'm going to call them weasels, are actually

naming these cars on purpose in such a way that they're hard to pronounce?

I mean, at one point, like a Ferrari GTO is cool, because it's GTO.

Yeah, but they're running out.

And now you've got-

Man, Virginia is running out of names of bulls.

Temarario.

Revuelto.

That's a horrible name.

Temarario.

I mean, you know, Dolce Cilindri, why not just call it a 12-cylinder?

You know?

Or how about the Bugatti Chiron or the Bugatti, what's the latest one?

It's the-

I think someone just gets themselves wound up and they get stuck with a name and

they go for it.

Anyway-

I think that one was introduced here, right?

The new Lamborghini, the yellow and black one.

Oh, the phenomenon.

Exactly.

But it's spelled a different way.

Yeah.

So, this Revuelto thing, it was scrambled eggs, so it was like, how do we do the open

on this?

Because what we're doing as part of the episodes, one of the things that we did change was

the production quality was already very high, and now it's to another level.

Because I'm going in a different-

I know you and I disagree in that area.

So, what I'll do is I'll link to those channels.

Yes, please do.

Yeah, below.

If you want to go check it out, just click on the link.

So, Brett took that episode and he turned it into this.

He literally brought the picture, it had a picture of the actual Revuelto, though,

Bull from 1880.

He brought the Bull back to life and the Bull is fighting a matador while I'm driving

the car at the opening of the episode.

Thank you, AI.

He could do that now, AI.

It's amazing what Brett did.

And then I've got Josh, who understands the concept of short content.

When I say short content, we're not just doing vertical.

We're doing vertical in a way that we're participating, but we're not trying to be like everybody

else.

And then on top of that, we're taking, like, we're doing as long as-

So, you're not doing the little dances?

Is that what you're saying?

No, that's you and Tommy.

We're taking the content, like, for example, I sat with Bob Lutz for an hour and a half.

So there's two bits.

And then cutting it up.

We're cutting up and putting in clips.

But Doug does that from his podcast.

And it works.

Yeah, it works, yeah.

That's kind of a common thing.

So, in other words, congratulations.

I think the biggest-

Welcome to 2025.

I know.

It's about time.

I'm very slow with change.

I finally did it.

I'm very happy with the change thus far.

And we're excited to share it with everybody, and we'd ask you guys to come and subscribe

or re-subscribe and click notifications and share it on Reddit, do all that kind of stuff.

But long-

I think the best way to describe it is, previously I was playing Not To Lose, now I'm playing

to win.

That's a good strategy.

All right.

I'm going to steal this next segment.

We don't have segments, but I'm creating one.

So Tommy does this little podcast called Carish.

Oh, with the girls?

Yeah, with the girls.

Yeah, yeah.

And they do this thing like, what grinds your gears, right?

And I've been thinking about this, and this grinds my gears.

I wanted to get your take on it because you're the perfect man for this.

Because I'm grumpy?

No, no, no.

Because you understand this world, which is kind of not my world for the most

part.

So as you know, over our tenure, Ford has done several expensive exotic cars.

There was the GT, right?

Then there was the second-generation GT, and these came from them being Ferrari back

in the day.

And these cars did very, very well, right?

Because if you bought a GT and you sat on it, you probably doubled your money in a very

short time.

If you bought the latest GT, which was EcoBoost's same thing, I think those went

out for like $4.50, and now they're selling for like $7.50.

It was starting at $3.50, and then ultimately they got as high as $6.65.

So now Ford has a Mustang GT-D.

Yes.

I was watching the video, and this came out a few weeks ago, and the first person to

drive it was Max Verstappen with Chris Harris.

Love Chris Harris, incredible automotive journalist, just knows cars backwards

and forwards.

He's a talented driver.

Man can chew.

Verstappen is arguably the best driver in the world right now, from no one, obviously.

And I get that.

I'm known in fact about Chris Harris.

He puts his dog at his GT3, a major respect for that.

But here's the part that kind of grinds my gears.

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Name me a company that has such a spread in terms of the bottom of the market, the same

model to the top of the market in terms of MSRP.

So when they did the GT, I was fine with it.

But now you're taking what is essentially the quintessential American you can call

a pony car, muscle car, sports car, whatever you want, and you're turning it into something

that the thing was never meant to be.

And to prove that, you've got Europeans actually being the first to drive it and

review it.

And that just bothers me the wrong way.

I kind of feel like Farley is trying to compete against your car, the GT3, which is fine.

I get it.

But I'm like, you know, the Mustang has this incredible heritage, right?

It goes back to 64 and a half.

And now, base Mustang is what, 45,000, 40,000, something like that.

And I've got this GTD that's probably when you configure it, 400,000.

Name me another car that has that spread in the same model.

Totally disagree with you.

You see what I'm saying?

I mean, I don't get it.

No, you don't get it.

You don't understand what's happening.

All right, so explain it to me.

OK.

You need to think about it as there's Ford's truck business, there's Ford's crossover

business, and then there's Ford's Canadian business.

These are not American cars.

These are Canadian cars.

Yeah, so the GT is built by Multimatic in Canada.

The GT was built in Canada, too.

They also build the shocks for Formula One.

They build the shocks for GM.

They build Aston Martins.

They build the AMG-1.

They do a lot of things.

They also build stuff in the UK.

They build the shocks from your, what, your AT-4 or something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The Canyon AT-4.

So these guys, they know right.

Larry over there, man, that guy is amazing.

Yeah.

Anyway, what they're doing is building a GT3RS competitor, which you commented on.

And what they're saying is, we want to build a halo car.

It just happened to be they made it sort of look like a Mustang.

It's not a Mustang.

It's not connected to a Mustang.

It's a completely different platform.

OK.

It's magnificent.

Yeah, you too.

Totally one.

But it's not a Mustang.

And that's where you're missing the point.

OK.

So I agree.

So why call it a Mustang?

They went down.

Why call it a Mach-E Mustang?

That's what I was going to go.

They went down this road.

It didn't work.

It pissed off the people.

It pissed off a lot of people when Ford called an electric car a Mach-E because they

drew on the heritage of the Mustang.

Do you remember for like three minutes, the second best-selling EV, very close

to Tesla, was the Mach-E when it came out?

It was, but I've talked to so many of our viewers now, and I've read so many comments

who are just rubbed the wrong way.

They won't even give that car a chance because it's a Mustang Mach-E.

If they hadn't called it an electric, which is also a Ford, makes sense, right?

Then I think it would have had kind of a neutral.

But because they tried to tie it to the Mustang heritage, it just rubbed a lot

of people the wrong way, kind of like the GTD rubs me the wrong way.

I just don't feel like that's a Mustang.

Call it something else, but don't draw upon that heritage of affordable American

pony-muscle sports cars and then have European journalists review it and have

the guys here at Pebble Beach must after it.

It's a whole different thing, which is fine if that's what Ford wants to be,

but I don't think that's what Ford is.

I think Ford is trying to build a halo car.

That's the point you're missing.

I get it.

They don't call it a Mustang.

And they have sold every one of them.

As it is, they have to do the same reservation system.

They do it with the GT.

You have to apply.

Can I have the car?

Please?

May I please be worthy of it?

This is the other thing that bothers me the wrong way.

I hate the fact that Ford is building cars that you have to go and basically

beg Ford to sell you.

Fortunately, that's what you have to do to get the speculators out of the

market.

There is something just inherently weird about that.

As a Porsche guy, it pisses me off that you literally can't walk in and

get a GT3.

I have one now, but people don't realize, I had to campaign for eight years to get

that allocation.

I know how that game is played, and I refuse to play that game.

And I'm probably poor for it, or maybe not.

I don't know.

Because let's say you do finally get that allocation.

The fact is the market value of that is greater than the allocation

still, or for a long time has been.

So after the two years, you mark my words, the cars will

go up in value.

I don't think it's going to go up as much as the GTs, because the GT was this

exotic thing, and it has this racing heritage.

I do think you are correct in that, okay, the naming impacts it.

It'll impact it on the resale end of it.

That's where I agree with you.

And then at the same time, which makes it even more interesting, you've got

this twist where Chevy now is coming out with the Corvette that you can buy without

having to beg.

You don't have to get a special allocation.

You do probably have to pay if you want to be first.

You have to pay a premium, right?

You probably have to pay some kind of dealer overage.

Well, the first ones were, they made 325 in the 2025 model years.

So we'll look back and say those will be worth a bit more, because there

was less of them.

Because they had that order.

I don't know how much of a deal.

But you know, it's funny.

I was talking, I was out.

I did my annual cars in my yard party at Bob Bonifaces.

I do an episode on that every year.

It's super fun.

And I was chatting with both Phil Zack, as well as the newly

minted chief designer, Brian Nesbitt, who, fun fact, he was the designer of the PT Cruiser.

And now he runs design.

He's all grown up now.

He runs design for one of the biggest car companies in the world.

Huge congratulations to Brian Nesbitt, great friend.

Great guy.

Anyway, we were chatting and it turns out those cars are not numbered.

They're not going to do limited run on ZR1, ZR1X, however, the supply is constrained

because the motor takes so much effort to make.

So they can't wake up one day and at the point now you were telling me that you have a ZO6

on order and now you can get a discount because they crank a lot of them out.

They won't be able to do that with a ZR1 because of the engine.

Yeah, but if they stay in that typical American car pattern, at some point, supply will reach

demand and exceed demand.

It happened with the ZO6, right?

The ZO6 is...

It goes back to what we were saying about right sizing, supply and demand.

The reason you can get a ZO6, when the ZO6 came out two years ago, whatever, three years

ago.

They were a sticker, yeah.

Yeah, they were a sticker and now you can get them at 10 under sticker.

I think unless something drastically changes in the world, GM will build as many C8, ZR1

and ZR1X as there is demand for.

I don't think they're going to do that.

You don't think so?

You think they're going to do that?

I don't think so.

I think there is a lot of truth to the engine itself as it is labor-intensive

and I honestly don't think they make as much money on it as percentage-wise as other Corvettes

because of the labor that goes into some of the manufacturing.

Well, compared to, if you just look at the stats on it, 1,250 horsepower for the ZR1X.

Did you go drive it?

No, I haven't driven it.

I'm dying to drive it.

They didn't love either of us for that one.

No.

Mark got to drive it.

No, Jack did.

Mark sat in the passenger seat almost throughout.

They're doing rides right along, this is GTD today, so if you want to go ride along in the

GTD, you could go do it.

Yeah, they got them out in front of the hotel here.

Yeah, so you can go do a ride along at Lugunaseka, Weathertech Lugunaseka.

Are you going to do that?

No.

I learned my lesson when the LFA came out.

I did a ride along and everybody in the comments was like, what's the point of

this, Roman?

Oh, there's no point.

There's nothing you can tell us.

I'm like, okay.

I don't get that at all.

We don't do ride along.

Yeah.

So it's half the price of what a similarly priced European supercar or hypercar would be.

GTD.

We're back on the GTD.

No, we're talking about the Corvette.

Oh, yeah.

The GTD is a whole different thing.

But the Corvette, right?

How else are you going to get a 1,250 horsepower car at 200,000?

You're not.

So here is my question to you.

You know what was sad, too?

I'll tell you what was sad.

I was in Goodwood.

They had the supercar paddock, probably 100 cars in supercar paddock, two American

cars.

GTD Corvette, that was it.

That's the point.

I felt bad.

That's why we need the GTD.

We need more of that.

Unfortunately, American car manufacturers have gone the way of we need to make nondescript

crossovers.

Yeah.

Well, everybody's gone that way.

Whether it's Lincoln, a Cadillac, or it's a Chevy, a nondescript crossover, and

that's just not a good idea.

Anyway, I cut you off.

You were saying that.

I forget what you were saying, but you were saying something important.

So cars like these, ZR101 X GTD.

It's not, there's no math that works.

There's no logic that works.

It's all about desirability.

And to some extent, I can get one and you can.

Like watches?

Yeah, kind of like watches, although I'm more about the design of watches and I'm a buy

and hold guy.

I don't sell my watches.

I still have, so my first Goodwatch, this is a full of fun fact, my first Goodwatch

I still have, it was the watch I was wearing when I got mowed down by the Tesla and

it is just mangled and it's an old watch company, Sektor, nothing that fancy.

I can't get any parts, but I still have the watch.

I refuse to get rid of it.

Well, it's a milestone, not a good one, but it's a milestone in your life.

It was $695.

It was the nicest watch I bought it when I first watched.

Anyway, desirability.

Which do you think is more desirable, the VET or the GTD?

I think for most people, the VET is attainable, whereas the GTD is unobtainable.

So the question is, what's more desirable, unobtainable or something that you can do

for that?

I don't mean from market forces.

Let's try to take that out of it.

Just look at the two cars.

Maybe don't even think about the dollars and cents involved in the performance.

Just look at the two cars.

Which is more desirable?

I would rather, to me, once again, GTD, race car for the road.

To me, I would agree, and I'm not a Ford guy.

VET is a road car that you could take on the track.

Even the ZR1-X, it's still a road car, so for me, the road car is more desirable.

And from a design point of view, I know a lot of people-

From a design point of view, so you're saying the ZR1 is more desirable to you.

I would also argue that the ZR1 is kind of brutalistically styled.

There's a lot going on and a lot of people don't like it.

You look at a Ferrari, it's very elegant, it's very shapely.

The ZR1 has all these lines.

But I kind of like it.

I kind of like that jet fighter inspired over-the-top styling of the Corvette.

I like it.

See, this is no shade to our friend Phil Zach, who is a good friend.

I think the Corvette's beautiful.

I think it's a little busy on the lines, a little too many lines.

But I do think it's a wonderful looking car.

However, from a desirability standpoint, for me at least, the fact that there are less-

There are going to be less of those GTDs.

The fact that the GTD is just so wild looking.

And the fact that it's more organic, like you can see inside of it, it's got these

weird vents and flares and the way the wing works because of the aerodynamics.

It's just, I think so, it's purposefully, it's ugly but handsome at the same time.

I love it.

Alright, here's a question for you, alright?

And this is more of a financial question.

Don't get into debt.

There's my answer.

No, no, no, no, no.

We're talking about cars, broken in.

Let's say that you sell your car, the GT3, which is worth more than you pay for

it.

Yes.

And then you have a choice.

You can either buy a GTD, or it says here, you don't need an allocation.

Or Chevy comes to you and says, we'll sell you a ZR1X at Sticker, which is the one that

was here.

219 or something like that.

The one that was here.

The Quail Edition.

Yeah, that was 247.

That one.

Top, most desirable, and that's a limited production one.

So you could spend, let's say, 250,000 on the Corvette, or you can spend, you're

going to have to spend at least, I'm going to say, 350,000 on the GTD.

And that's going to be for like a base one.

You might have to go 400,000.

So which of those do you buy?

GTD.

Really?

And you think in the long run that will also be more valuable?

No doubt in my mind.

There you go.

Yeah, the GTD.

Because it's limited production?

I think, and you know what, we can even put a pin in this and look at it in a year,

this episode.

Yeah.

I was really two years because that's how long you have to keep the car.

I think the GTD market will be exactly tied to the GT3 RS market.

I think percentage-wise, the cars will appreciate exactly the same way.

And let's say there's some crazy crash in the market.

There's a lot more GT3s, a lot more.

There's more demand for a car like that around the world.

You can use it.

So the reason why like go-wings are so valuable is because there's so many people,

you can sell that car in any country in the world, and there's people that'll

buy it.

Do you see the electric one that was here?

Which one?

It was at Quail, it was electric.

It was there when we did the walk-around.

It took a go-wing and they made it electric.

Oh, I didn't know.

It was blue.

No, it was two.

It was a character of itself.

Anyway, the GTD will go up and down as the same market as the GT3 RS.

That is my prediction.

I think you're probably right about that.

Well, you know, we kind of forgot all about the terrace, which is fine.

I literally had notes about terracing here.

You know what, let's do this.

I did racers this morning.

I threw my girlfriend out of the room and said, get out, we've got to do some research.

I like, you know, terraces are boring and depressing, and this is a lot more fun.

I can make terraces fun for you.

You can make terraces fun for me.

Seriously, I can make terraces fun for you.

Sounds vaguely sexual.

As we're in my hotel room.

This is very disturbing.

25% more.

Jesus, Roman.

So let's put a pin in that one.

Okay.

And we'll come back to it.

I don't think it's still too early to actually see what's going on.

But I can tell you this.

This has been one hell of a fun episode.

It had nothing to do with terrace.

Thank God.

It was a bit of only fans at the beginning.

Thank you for everything.

Thank you very much.

I really appreciate it.

Click on the link below.

Check out his new MMTV.

MMTV cars, MMTV podcast.

Make it happen.

Yeah, make it happen.

And thank you for, you know, spending some time with me on this.

Like I said, it was a hoot.

Thank you, sir.

Always good to see you.

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Ep. 302: What Is The Future Of Cars?

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