Ep. 303: Here's Why Roman Is So Grumpy About The New Mustang GTD!

Carvana is so easy, just a click, and we've got ourselves a car. See?

So many cars. That's a clicktastic inventory.

And check out the financing options. Payments to fit our budget. I mean, that's...

Clickonomics 101.

Delivery to our door.

Just a hop, skip, and a click away.

And... what?

No better feeling than when everything just... clicks.

Buy your car today on...

Carvana.

Delivery fees may apply.

Time is precious, and so are our pets.

So time with our pets is extra precious.

That's why we started Dutch.

Dutch provides 24-7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow-ups for up to five pets.

You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day.

Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments, and shipping is always free.

With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets, and year-round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

Go to Dutch.com to get vet care that is always there for just $92 a year.

Hey, Andre. We got a lot to talk about in this week's TFL Car Chat.

Thank you guys for joining us. As always, it's Roman and Andre. Where's Tommy?

Yeah, I was going to ask you, why am I here?

You're here because Tommy's on a program. He's driving Toyotas on the West Coast.

So we'll be back to normally scheduled presenters next week.

But for now, you've got Managing Editor of TFL Truck.

So there will be some truck talk on this Car Chat.

A tiny bit of truck talk relating to SUVs, actually.

Yes, yes.

We've got a lot. Look, this is our run now. We've got a lot to talk about.

Whoa.

A lot is happening, and this is going to be the Roman is grumpy episode,

because Andre, I am grumpy. I'm going to shine some light.

So I'm going to try to balance your grumpiness.

But I also have my own grumps.

Okay.

I'm also grumpy.

We're going to be talking about what grinds our gears.

No, that's car-ish.

No, we can't talk about what grinds our gears.

Boils our brakes.

Okay. Boils our brakes. We'll be talking about what boils our brakes.

Yeah.

And I want to say hello and thank you to all of our patrons.

Yes, we're also, this is live on Patreon.

Yeah.

So if you want to get it first, head on over to patreon.com.

Exactly.

And thank you guys for joining us.

If you have any questions, we will be happily answering them for you.

So if you have any interesting things that you want to talk to us about,

jot down your questions, and by the end of the show, we'll answer them.

But let's start with my grumpiness, Andre.

Okay.

What's the first topic?

This is something I've been talking about and thinking about a long time.

I don't understand the Mustang GTD.

You mean the most amazing, the most powerful, the most technologically advanced Mustang ever?

The most expensive Mustang ever is more where I'm going with it.

So as you know, Ford has built, and I say that once again with air quotes,

because really it's multi-matic that built the new Mustang GTD.

The Mustang GTD is ostensibly a competitor to the Porsche 911 GT3.

Okay.

So I was actually fortunate enough.

I was in Detroit when they first unveiled the GTD Mustang.

So I was really psyched, and I saw one of the pre-production cars in person.

And I was pretty excited.

I wasn't quite sure what it competed against.

In my mind, it's a car that was kind of an answer to the C8 Corvette,

because Chevrolet, and they're very competitive, right?

Ford and GM.

Except the GTD, this is where it gets sticky, is $200,000 more, Andre.

$200,000 more.

It starts at like $350,000, right?

And when you spec it, it can easily get to $450,000.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mustang has always been kind of the people's

muscle car slash pony car slash sports car slash muscle car, right?

You're not wrong.

It started out as a Ford Fairlane.

Yes.

First year, 64 and a half.

It sold like gamebusters, and mainly those were the V6 versions.

Well, these were affordable, smaller cars that looked good, right?

They were approachable for a lot of people.

Like my wife's family back in the 60s, her grandfather bought actually several original

Mustangs.

I mean, he fell in love with that car.

Yes.

And according to published reports, there's only three parts that the current Mustang

GT actually shares with the GTD.

This is a vehicle that was specially built to go on the racetrack to compete directly

with some of the best Porsches out there.

And best racing cars out there.

Yeah.

And I get that, but I don't understand why you had to go with the Mustang for that.

Ford has, of course, done this before.

They've done the Ford GT, which is the purpose built race supercar supercar.

Yeah.

And they've done two versions of that.

But that goes directly to the lineage of racing at Le Mans racing Formula One back

when Ford took on Ferrari.

So there is there is a lot there.

But the Mustang Andre in my mind has always been like I said, the people's car.

And I don't understand why Ford is now trying to compete directly with Porsche

instead of, let's say Corvette, which to me seems like the more natural.

Now, there's other things about it that I don't like.

And I've seen it a bunch of times.

I saw it at the auto show.

I haven't been behind the wheel.

Other journalists have, which is fine.

This is not sour grapes on my part.

I don't do track work.

So that's fine.

But can you actually do an image?

Sorry to interrupt.

No, where they show the chassis like like the engine and the tunnel go up a little bit.

Yeah, that.

So that's pretty interesting.

Keep going.

Well, let me tell you kind of the things that are weird about it.

First and foremost, it's big.

I mean, it's it might have a footprint approaching the F 150.

It's also heavy.

I believe it's 500 pounds heavier than the regular GT.

So I don't know exactly how long the GTD is, but I know the weight.

So the curb weight on the GTD Mustang, I just looked this up is just over 4300 pounds,

which a regular Mustang GT V8.

We actually owned one.

Yes.

That's about 500 pounds lighter than that about 3,800.

So I agree.

I am also gaining weight in my age.

So the lighter you are, the more high performance you can be.

Exactly.

And so you would think that a high performance car would actually be lighter and lighter

instead of bigger and fatter if I'm being honest.

Well, that's an American way.

Isn't it?

We eat a lot of hamburgers.

And the other thing that I think would kind of, you know, we just bought Chevy Corvette zero one.

And that was who bought we did a C four zero one.

Oh, yes.

Not the new zero.

I was like, you did what?

The C four.

Let me let me clarify the C four zero one fourth generation.

Yeah.

For $27,000, $200,000.

That's a little above our pay grade.

But that Corvette is powered by an engine that was developed by Lamborghini and then built by is it Lotus?

No, no, no.

Marine.

Oh, no, sorry, it was developed by Lotus.

I'm thinking of the Viper.

So the Corvette engine was developed by Lotus because at that time GM owned Lotus and then was built by Mercury Marine.

And what happened was when they did that, it really chafed a lot of the Ford engineers because they were like, Hey, this is GM engineers.

Yeah, the GM.

Sorry, the GM engineers.

This is our car.

Why is Lotus developing the engine for this?

Why is Mercury Marine building it?

And basically, it kind of poked the fire under their butts and made them develop what you what became the LS engine eventually.

And so I would think if I'm a Ford engineer and you're working on the crown jewel in the Ford family, at least for sports cars, you'd be kind of bummed out that really this is a multi manic product and not a Ford product.

Well, it has a Ford badge on it.

It does have a Ford badge or Mustang badge.

But it's really built in Canada and developed and engineered.

And I think, like I said, I think it shares three parts with a regular Mustang.

So there's just a lot of things about it that don't feel like Ford.

They feel like, you know, somebody's side project or maybe maybe we're at a moment in time when these highly expensive cars are the way you make money in the auto business.

But it doesn't feel like something that Henry Ford would be, you know, doing.

I thought always Ford was, you know, when we make affordable cars, we pay our employees a living wage, right?

This is what Henry Ford established so that they can afford the cars.

But now we're building $450,000 super cars that are contending for Nurburgring records.

And it just doesn't feel like it's the right brand for this kind of a car, especially with the Mustang name.

I guess I wouldn't be so upset if they had called it something else.

Like the GT?

Yeah.

And when the last generation Mustang came out, you could get the GT 500 for over $100,000.

I actually drove that car and but I didn't have a problem with it because it felt like it was still a Mustang.

It was the ultimate Mustang.

But then to go from 110 or 120, which is what the GT 500s were.

If you spec them out with carbon fiber and got all the bells and whistles to $450,000, now we're in a completely different world, right?

We're in Ferrariville and Porscheville and it just doesn't feel like Fordville.

And I guess that's the bottom line that really kind of rubs me the wrong way.

Okay.

Well, let me shine a little bit more cheerful.

Okay.

Yeah.

I've had my say.

Okay.

So you have your position, right?

So I get a lot of what you're saying.

But what I think if I could peek into the minds of Ford leadership here and the Ford team.

I think this is Jim Farley project.

Well, yeah.

Actually, I actually haven't met Jim personally.

Jim, maybe we can meet one day.

But now you won't.

At least I won't.

No, no.

He comes across as a very approachable person, a person who you can come up to in a social setting very easily and actually approach and talk about.

And he actually is a passionate about what he's doing.

He loves cars.

He loves racing.

Yes.

He loves everything on a motive.

I mean, I just saw him in Moab, Utah, driving Broncos over mountains and rocks and sand.

So I can really appreciate that.

Also, the Ford GT, right?

The previous generation that just kind of wrapped up.

The 500 GT or just the regular?

No, no.

The last generation.

The exotic GT.

Okay.

So, Cole, can you bring that up?

Maybe just the Ford GT.

So you're talking about the last two generations?

The EcoBoost.

The Twin Turbocharged.

Sports car.

Sports car that just recently went away, like the yellow one or any one of these.

So that car was also largely developed and built by Multimatic, right?

So they have a relationship together with Multimatic.

I totally get with the story you referenced, you know, with the C401 and it not being,

you know, in-house, so to speak.

Like if somebody came in here into TFL and they made a truck video for TFL without me,

I would be really pissed off to you.

Yeah, you might be a little bent out of shame.

Yes.

So I understand that completely.

But it seems like Ford chose, instead of building the next GT, which I don't know what it could

be, you know, maybe it will fly by the time they're done, they chose to extend the Mustang

into this area as a halo car.

Okay.

Because every brand needs a halo.

The Ford Raptor is a truck halo for them.

It's done really well for Ford to have a, you know, $115,000 Raptor R.

And so I was looking at the GTD in a similar light.

I was looking at it as their halo car that people, well, I don't think I'll ever own one

because I don't think I'll ever afford a car this price, but something to aspire to.

So first of all, that's also another problem that I have with this car.

You have to, I'm going to be a little crass here, but it's actually true.

You have to beg Ford to sell you one.

You have to get an allocation.

Oh, I don't like this.

Yeah.

Ferrari is doing this.

You're not going to walk into a Ford dealership and buy a GTD.

Well, yeah, that's true because you have to be kind of approved by Ford in order to buy one.

Yeah.

Same thing with the GT.

This has also happened.

But this is not.

And at that point, when you have to ask the manufacturer or the word I use was beg to buy a $450,000 car,

it is no longer aspirational.

It loses any halo effect because I know that even if I had, let's say I won the lottery,

there's no way I could buy that car, at least not new from Ford because I don't have the connections

or I don't have the...

Well, not after this video.

No.

No, I don't.

We can't afford it anyway.

It doesn't matter.

But you see what I'm saying?

The car has to be approachable.

And at some point, I have to think to myself for it to be a halo car, that this is a vehicle that I could own

and I could see myself behind the wheel.

I don't see myself behind the wheel of this car on the track or on the road because it's so unapproachable

because it's such an unobtainian vehicle that I don't think it fills that role of the halo car,

which I think is a good point.

You're right.

Companies do need halo cars.

I think Cadillac's kind of doing the same thing with the Celestique.

But that one, because it's electric and because of other reasons, it's probably very gettable if you actually wanted one.

This one, on the other hand, probably prints money for Ford because when you have to go and request to be able to buy a car,

that to me suggests that there's a lot more demand and that means that the price is a lot more elastic

and that's why we ended up with a Mustang that's now $450,000 when configured the right way.

But that to me also undercuts the brand of Mustang, which has always been the people's muscle car.

I'll give you another example of that.

When Ford came out with their electric Mustang, the Mach-E, I think a lot of people had no problems with it,

but a lot of people were rubbed the wrong way, right?

Because to them, the Mustang was never meant to be electric.

It was always about the eight cylinders under the hood and so it kind of cuts both ways.

It had a different problem than the Mach-E because it had four doors, not two.

There was another problem because if you do have a strong brand like Mustang or Corvette,

in theory, it signifies something, which is a sporty two-door vehicle that you can enjoy, maybe a convertible also.

We actually have a comment from Don Megahan here on Patreon, Roman, relating to this as well.

But whenever you have that strong brand...

When you read it, you can't just read it.

Yeah, whenever you have that strong brand, it's hard to bend it in another direction.

So what does Don have to say?

Don says, the GTD is only Mustang by name.

It's also a testbed since it's a halo car.

Don't be surprised if some of the tech goes into the next-gen Mustang, but at a lot less cost.

That's an interesting point, right?

So the GTD has a supercharged V8, which is what? Over 800 horsepower, right?

So they have the suspension design that's very sophisticated, even though the car is heavy.

Max Verstappen recently drove it and he was...

I watched that video and he was relatively impressed, but at least it seemed like he was impressed.

So maybe a lot of the carbon technology, a lot of the suspension technology, I kind of agree with Don here.

We could see that.

Could I make a point? How long ago was the previous GT unleashed on the world?

It's like 10 years now, right?

Wasn't that 2016?

Yeah, about nine years.

One of the key features of that car was active arrow.

So how much active arrow is in the F-150?

Maybe the chin.

You know the chin that deploys?

I know, but that's not active arrow.

That's not from the GT.

That's just something that all the manufacturers are doing.

So I guess my point, Andre, is that's kind of the publicity and company talking points

that this stuff eventually makes its way down to regular cars.

But where's the active arrow from the GT in the current Mustang?

Not the GTD in the current...

Name active arrow, not the chin spoiler.

Active arrow in terms of the way that it was designed for...

Well, where it increases downforce or it increases braking.

That's what active arrow does in sports cars.

Where is the active arrow in any car you can go by off the street in the four dealership?

Other than the chin spoiler.

Yeah, that's not...

That's aerodynamic device that improves fuel efficiency.

Right, but in the sports car, they don't care about fuel efficiency as well.

I know, but in the truck world, we do care about fuel efficiency.

And we do care about it in cars as well, in a lot of it.

But once again, it's apples and oranges here.

Yeah, so, I mean, no matter how...

I mean, racing drives innovation.

Would you agree?

Racing, so when you have the lightest engines or the best materials

or the most powerful engines and all the technologies,

like the hybrid technologies in Formula One,

that is being developed to the nth degree,

hopefully all that stuff will trickle back down into the stuff we can buy.

Sounds like trickle down economics to me.

I just don't buy that company line.

Sorry, I'm just maybe a jaded journalist.

But that's just, I think, an excuse that a lot of CEOs use

to develop a bigger, better, faster toy than their competing CEO.

And then they say, well, this will trickle down.

I just don't see any of the technology in the GT actually trickling down

to anything that Ford's building right now.

I just don't. I haven't seen anything.

If anything, it went the other way.

The GT actually used the EcoBoost engine that was developed

not for the GT, but was developed for the F-150

and for some other vehicles.

So the technology actually went up instead of down.

Well, I don't know which way it went,

because I thought they explained the V6

because of the skinniness of the car, right, and the size of it,

and they wanted it to make the GT, you know,

very dynamic and much more skinny.

But the engine was, I'm saying it went up

because the engine was there before the car was there.

They didn't introduce the EcoBoost in the GT, right?

It wasn't like, hey, we have a GT,

and now guess what? It's got this new powertrain.

It was, we have this powertrain, and we're going to put it,

so the technology went from the mainstream to the sports car,

not from the sports car to the mainstream.

That would be mine.

That's true.

I think we're beating this to death.

Let us know in the comments below what you agree, Cole.

Yeah, thank you, Cole. Just stop us.

I think our producer is telling us to move forward.

Let's move forward. Let's keep going.

So let's talk about something else.

Completely different, Andre.

We have a spy shot, one of our keen-eyed viewers

caught this car.

Look at that. What is that?

Me and Zach spent the whole day scratching our heads,

trying to figure out what the heck that is.

It is an SUV, or a crossover.

I would say it's tall-ish.

First of all, it's tall-ish. It's boxy.

It's all camouflaged except for the headlamps

and some of the grille elements in this particular prototype.

But, dude, it looks amazing,

and you guys figured it out.

You finally know what this is.

Yeah, Zach figured it out. I didn't figure it out.

So this is, you want to tell him?

Drum roll, please.

The 2028, we think, Mitsubishi Montero.

That's right.

And if Nathan were here, he would be falling off his chair.

Nathan, where are you?

Where are you? We need you. I know you are...

We know where you are.

But you're a huge Montero fan. He's actually owned Monteros.

Many Monteros.

All of which have overheated. No, not some of which have overheated.

But this is interesting because Mitsubishi,

let's face it, doesn't have a huge lamp of cars.

No.

In fact, I would say there is very few Mitsubishi models

except for maybe, what, three?

Yes, but they're closely related.

I mean, they are partnered with Nissan, right,

on a lot of their products.

For example, you know, the Rogue, you know,

the Nissan Rogue partnership that they have

and the technologies that they're sharing together.

And I'm excited about this.

You know why?

Because in this image from the rear of the vehicle,

you can kind of see the solid rear axle

and that pumpkin hanging in the middle.

Right there, we are zooming in on it.

So you're saying this is body on frame.

Which could mean it's a solid rear axle.

It could be body on frame, which could be truck based,

which could be the next frontier as well.

They could share a lot of the components with the next.

But more importantly, the next extero.

And the next extero, Romans.

So what we're looking at potentially here is

a frontier based platform that will underpin

both the Montero and the extero.

And let's talk about the extero for a second

because Mitsubishi's timing could not have been worse.

Just when the overlanding slash off-roading craze took off,

they decided to kill the extero.

And ever since then, I have been scratching my head,

wondering why and how and what in God's name made them do that?

I don't know.

I wasn't a preview to that,

but I believe the last Nissan extero was 2015 model year,

which is 10 years ago.

Yeah.

It's hard to believe.

Remember, you and Nathan and I, we reviewed several exteros.

We love exteros.

They're really tough.

They were affordable.

They were easy to, you know, just acquire and get.

I would say since that time, Toyota sold a million foreigners.

At least a million.

And that's because more.

If you're around back then, it's not that long ago,

but back then.

Ten years.

The foreigner was still around.

It was cranking.

The wrangler was around.

The Bronco wasn't.

The Bronco, there was no even rumor of a new Bronco.

No, but what would happen is, of course, Toyota had a reputation for reliability.

And so there was a premium even back then on a forerunner.

So if you couldn't quite swing a forerunner, you could basically go to the value brand,

which is Nissan, of course, and pick yourself up an extero,

which had the very similar capabilities and some kind of unique stuff that the forerunner didn't have.

It had that, for instance, stadium seating where if you were sitting in the second row,

you could actually see over the heads of the first row.

Can we see the 2015 extero call if our producer will allow us to see it?

He'll allow us to see whatever we want.

The other thing that the extero had, which is precious in my mind,

is it had a dedicated and enthusiastic core of customers.

So there were people who swore by exteros to the extent that they would actually brand extero

by tattooing it on their bodies.

There was a burgeoning aftermarket for extero parts that Nissan wasn't doing, but that people were doing.

Yeah, there was a shop, you know, there was Toyota for Toyota,

and there was, you know, Nissan Tech shop.

There were modifying exteros, frontiers and titans,

and it was all, you know, all happy until they completely killed it.

And I have to say, I'm a big fan of the extero.

I thought it was a better-looking car than the forerunner.

I thought the forerunner was kind of dull, but extero had some pretty interesting looks.

And the other thing about it, of course, was that it was based on the frontier at the time,

and the frontier has always been a very solid truck, which made the extero very off-road worthy.

Yeah, they have off-road versions, and then they renamed them Pro4X.

Pro4X brand is still around right now, so I'm really psyched that we saw that prototype.

By the way, if you can go back to that website called The Images,

I wanted to thank our viewer who sent them.

Just not sure. Can you go back to the text?

You can go to the story and find out who sent those to us, yeah.

We'll thank our man or lady who was...

Sean B. Thank you, Sean.

Thank you, Sean. Really appreciate it.

I'm not sure I'm loving the Montero right now. It's got these kind of funky lights that...

No, it reminds me of the Nissan Leaf.

Doesn't it remind you?

No, I mean, it's not swoopy, but the light signature.

Well, I like the fact that it's very upright. It's a little too slab-sided.

It's got a little bit of that... All cars are going this way, the newest BMWs.

Do you remember when the Jaguar 00 project came out? Everybody hated it.

You mean the concept?

Yeah, the concept. It's very slab-sided.

You mean it looks like an air conditioner? Is that what you mean?

Yeah, it's got this kind of cheese grate on the front.

This has a lot of those aspects.

It's very slab-sided. It's got that kind of cheese...

Look at the cheese grating front on this.

And now go back to the Montero.

I disagree.

Look at that.

Okay, sporty cars like Jaguars need to be stylish.

SUVs, especially off-road body-on-frame SUVs, need to be square.

They need to be rectangular. This prototype has all of that.

It's squarish. It's slab-sided. It's rectangular.

It's butch. It's attractive.

So, I'm going to disagree with you, Andre, and I'll tell you why.

The same guy who did the Jaguar 00 concept, also, or at least the same team,

Jerry McGovern, also penned the latest Defender.

And that is anything but that.

That, to me, is like you could take three boxes,

typical three-box or two-box set-up, right?

One box at the bottom, one box on top where the people live.

And then it's very square, but there is not a lot of intricate interests.

Look at the size. They're completely flat, completely slabby.

The front, like I said, has a cheese-grader look to it.

Whereas if you look at a Defender, there's just a lot of visual interest,

including the lights, including the way that it kind of goes back.

I'll tell you, the reason I had a hard...

I'm so grumpy today. I'm sorry, guys.

It's okay. I'll ring him in.

Okay, you really need to go.

But the reason I had such a hard time with Jag,

figuring out what this Montero looks like,

is that there is nothing that says Montero in that to me.

Nothing.

Oh, you mean heritage?

Yes, heritage.

That Defender, even though it's much more modern,

there are still cues that harken back to the previous Defender, the new one.

I agree that the new Defender has some heritage in it.

But look at the new Defender.

I could draw it with a ruler.

I could put a ruler next to the side of it, and I can draw that box.

There's nothing more boxy than that.

Look at the wheel wells on it.

Look how interesting the profile looks.

Look how tall the greenhouse is compared to this body.

And now go back to the new Montero, please.

So look how tall that slab side is.

You know why?

You are floating in Moab.

You want to look out of your glass, of your windows.

The glass is smaller than the side of the vehicle.

No, it's still large.

You know what we need to do?

We need to wait until they debut this car without camouflage.

I like the hood.

I like the dual bumps on the hood.

But look, behind the rear door, it kinks up,

and then there's a little bit of a hip in the back of this vehicle.

You see what I'm saying?

I think we can agree.

I think Roman is once again wrong.

I do like the hood.

I was just driving the new Porsche Macan,

and the Porsche calls those wings because they harken back to the 911.

Those kind of bulges on top of the hood.

On top of the hood?

Yeah.

I do like the bulges.

That, to me, is the most interesting part of this.

Obviously, with the camouflage, it's hard to get a good sense for it

because the camouflage is designed to fool your eye.

So maybe once they peel off the camouflage,

they might love more.

I think we should wait.

You think that in that little under the grill,

do you think that is a little slot for a winch?

It's hard to know, Adam.

Well, I'm not sure what that slot is.

Well, that slot be there.

Yeah, that's very peculiar.

But it's not, I don't see a winch being in there.

But we've seen other images of this prototype with an exhaust pipe.

So this is not an all-electric vehicle.

Exactly.

So it needs to brief.

It has a large grill area.

So it's actually probably has a large radiator behind it.

So we think it may be a V6, maybe a twin-turbo V6 that they also have in there.

Well, if V6 with the V6 that they have in the frontier,

it's going to be V6.

Yeah, frontier also has a V6.

A different V6, exactly.

And actually, now that everybody has gone turbo in their mid-sized trucks,

it's kind of nice to have a truck with a straight six, not straight V6,

that is just straight naturally aspirated.

Yes.

Thank you very much for clearing up my mumble jumble.

It's okay.

I'm excited still.

Let us know what you think in the comments below.

I'm excited for the new XTERRA.

Yeah, I think that XTERRA.

So could save Nissan.

So I think I am hopeful, you know, when first the XTERRA room,

by the way, XTERRA rumors have been going on for decades.

But recent XTERRA rumors suggested to me that it could be a small unibody,

maybe a electrified vehicle.

And I thought it was the wrong way to do it.

It has to be body on frame.

It has to have the heritage of the XTERRA.

And this makes me hopeful that it's going to continue.

Well, this certainly doesn't have stadium seating,

but wouldn't it be cool if the next XTERRA,

which Nissan has confirmed is coming by the way,

we're not speculating on that.

Wouldn't that be cool if they actually did the stadium seating?

It would be amazing.

Yeah.

And then actually came out with a good assortment of accessories

that you could get with the vehicle.

I think one of the biggest mistakes that manufacturers OEMs made

initially when the off-road world got crazy was that they left a lot of money

on the table by not giving people a choice whether they want to winch

or whether they want rock sliders or whether they want a rooftop tent.

And I think Defender did a really good job of that

by coming out with a full catalog of accessories.

And I would hope that Nissan has learned that lesson

and maybe even Mitsubishi.

So when this does come out,

you can go and spec it and make it as off-road worthy as you want it.

Because that also to me says that the company cares about off-roading

because they are offering these off-road bits and pieces

as opposed to just making it look like an off-roader

and figuring that people buy it just because it's got that off-road styling.

Can I be grumpy now?

Yeah, of course.

Can we move on to the next story which makes me very grumpy?

Let's hear what your grumpy story is.

Okay.

So this has been floating around for at least what a week or two.

This is so sad.

And Zack Butler, our car editor,

wrote a story about this on TFLcar.com.

So basically the story is that the current Durango for 2026,

it continues, right?

So it's going to have several engines, 5.7 Hemi, which is great.

Then it will also have the 392, the 6.4 liter Hemi,

and also the Hellcat.

And the Hellcat version, according to the story,

according to what we hear from Stellantis,

will not be sold in the 17 carb, C-A-R-B states.

You know who's going to be happy about that?

Who?

The people who bought the first version that was supposed to be the last version.

Oh, yes.

The last call?

Yes, yes.

The last call, people are ecstatic right now.

They thought they were getting the last version of the Durango Hellcat.

But I'm not ecstatic.

I think that was two versions ago, by the way, two model years ago.

So they'll be happy that at least some of the weasels in the carb state won't people buy them.

So here's why I'm a bit upset by this,

because there was a lot of resurgence of the V8 engines in Stellantis.

Ram 1500 just got a V8 back, the Hemi, the 5.7 Hemi.

And there is rumors about the Hellcat TRX coming back,

and actually more than rumor now,

because the CEO of Stellantis said a V8 TRX is coming.

There's also rumors of 392, 6.4 liter V8, Ram's coming.

There's also a rumor of a Jeep Gladiator 392 coming with the V8 engine.

And we live in Colorado, which follows carb rules.

So we're part of the 17 states.

So does that mean, let me ask, this is what I'm thinking.

If I want one of these, can I go buy it in Illinois, which isn't the carb?

I don't think it's a carb.

It could be.

Or let's say Florida.

I'm sure Florida is not a carb state.

I'm guessing at this, but I think I'm solid.

No, no, we don't have to guess.

We don't have to guess because we could read Zach's story.

So the carb states are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware,

Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada.

Nevada, that's surprising.

New Jersey, New York.

New York is a humongous, popular state.

Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington.

All right.

So I'm going to play devil's advocate.

I can pop up to Cheyenne, which is less than two hours from here.

So how does that work?

Just pop up there and buy one and register it in Montana.

Wait a minute.

Well, yes, that's true.

That's what Californians are doing.

They're all registering their supercars in Montana so they don't have to do smog

and they don't have to pay taxes.

I'm aware of this.

Yes.

But I'm still upset that I'm not, this is not a popular vehicle, right?

They're only going to make, what, a thousand of these engines?

Maybe?

I mean, this is a low production vehicle.

Why can't enthusiasts pay extra money and buy them anywhere?

I don't get it.

Because, Andre, you don't deserve it.

You're not worthy of the Hellcat Durango.

You have to be...

No, I'm talking about like, I want the next TRX or the next Gladiator V8.

Are you saying that the next TRX won't be sold here as well?

Well, this is what's, this is maybe suggested.

Look, it just seems silly.

Like I said, if you really want one, pop up to Wyoming, pick one up and register.

It's once again, it's government being stupid and instead of, you know, being there to help

the people, they're there to hinder the people.

Whenever I see government doing stupid stuff like this, I'm always on the other side of

the issue because, like, even, there was a lot, this is an old story, but we'll just

touch on it.

In California, Leno's law, they try to pass a law for car enthusiasts, basically saying

that if you had a car that was, you know, like 30 years old or something.

We have that same rule here.

It's 1976 and it doesn't go forward.

It's always 1976 where you don't have smog.

It's terrible.

And so the way people got around it is instead of getting a smog in California, they would

just go and form a corporation.

There are companies who do that in Montana and then register in Montana and then you,

all of a sudden, take all this revenue that California could be getting and, you know,

siphon it off into Montana.

And then, of course, the way in California they solve that is now they're trying to crack

down on it and they, you know, they make you prove that you're living California.

So if you have a Montana plate on your car, but that just, that's just, that's just one

stupidity on top of another.

I know it is just, just, just allow people to do what they want and tax them if you want

to tax them and you're going to make more money.

And if you're worried about air quality, then use that money to clean up the air.

You know, use it to do fire mitigation because I promise you these massive forest fires that

are burning down half the West are causing a hell of a lot more pollution and causing

a hell of a lot more carbon to be thrown into the air than any 1976 Gremlin or a 2026 Durango.

Yes.

Because look, they said, what do people drive these gremlins for?

Right.

They drive them to cars and coffee and back and back.

That's it.

Yeah.

Ten miles a month.

If they start and if they can get them into the road before they crap out at them.

So come on, guys, just be real, be smart and be considerate of your constituents.

Yeah.

And like, I'm not advocating for a V8 engine in every Toyota RAV4.

I am.

I'm not.

Just put V8 everything.

Just do it.

The economy will sort that out because the second gas goes to $5 a gallon, which it will

at some point.

People will think twice.

People will think all of a sudden that Durango that is giving 12 MPG is going to become very,

very, very much a liability.

All right, let's move on to other things that upset us.

All right, we've got this whole list.

This is a list of tech we think will not wear well over time.

No, it won't.

Yes.

It will make a lot of people grumpy.

Yeah, so we've come together with a giant list of technology and things.

Not just technology.

How much time do we have?

How much?

25 minutes.

That's about right.

We've got about 25 of these.

Time is precious and so are our pets.

So time with our pets is extra precious.

That's why we started Dutch.

Dutch provides 24-7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow-ups

for up to five pets.

You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day.

Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free.

With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year-round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care.

Go to Dutch.com to get vet care that is always there for just $92 a year.

This is going to be a lightning round.

Yeah, so this is stuff that is going to wear out and it's going to look old long before it's time.

So you want to start with your beeping Nissan slash Infinity story?

Actually, it's more than Nissan or Infinity.

So a lot of cars beep a lot.

And I'm talking about little chimes, little warning sounds that they make.

And I'm okay with seatbelts.

I think seatbelt safety, reminding the driver and passengers to wear seatbelts, I'm all for that.

That's really important.

I'm for that.

What I'm talking about beeping is, for example, in recent Nissan, especially like their SUVs,

the big ones like Armada and even the QX80, I come home.

And the upcoming XTERRA.

Could be XTERRA maybe.

I come home.

I put the vehicle into park.

I shut off the engine.

I opened my driver door and there is a chime beeping at me.

Why?

I don't know.

Why?

Did you forget your key in your pocket or something?

No.

It scares me.

Did I forget my headlamps or my lights on?

Did I forget something about something?

No, it's reminding me that I opened the door.

I just opened the door.

I know I opened the door.

Why does it have to remind me that I'm opening the door?

Can I add one onto that?

What?

When you're trying to do that because you're backing up and you're trying to see whether

you're going to curb your wheels or not and the car just slams you automatically.

Auto braking.

But it's not just gentle.

It's not like, hey.

Oh, no.

It's like slam.

You can't open the door and back up at the same time.

Yeah.

Why is that?

Why can't I back up and open the door?

Is that because that Hollywood guy died trying to do that with the Grand Cherokee?

Was that what caused him to?

Because I think he fell out of the car or somehow he got...

It slipped out of park.

Yeah.

That was an issue.

So is that why now the rest of us can't back up and not curb our wheels?

Is that where we're at?

I don't know exactly why, but I know what you're saying.

It's very, very dramatic and very disconcerting when a car does that.

Every time it does that to me, I think I've hit somebody or something.

It just breaks clamping down automatically.

I have a related item to that, actually.

I have an item where we pull a lot of trailers.

We've done five vehicles on the Ike Gauntlet World Suffering Storing Test in the last ten days.

Yes, we've been doing a lot of Ikes.

Coming soon to a TFL channel near you.

Well, we already published the expedition, right?

And coming very, very soon this weekend, we're going to have a three truck Ike, one video with three trucks.

So if you're listening to this on Friday, look for tomorrow.

Exactly.

And also, Cole, our producer, Cole, had to video and edit a lot of these.

So he knows what we're talking about.

Backing up a trailer, you know, the vehicles in tow-hole mode, right?

The wiring is connected.

The lights are on in the trailer.

I put it in reverse, bam, slams my brakes.

Why?

Because there's a trailer behind me?

Because some engineer thought that it was safer if it does that.

But I know there's a trailer behind me.

I'm trying to back up with a trailer once again.

I know this is configurable, but no matter what, we have a long day, right?

We film all day.

We're coming to the ranch to drop off the trailer.

It's like 5 p.m. now.

You're kind of tired and all of a sudden you're backing up your trailer to put it in storage.

And now it slams on your brakes.

And now you have to struggle and turn off some menu item that's hidden three levels down.

Yeah, I agree.

I hate anything.

A lot of these things have this in common.

I hate anything that basically has the computer try to outthink the driver,

where it's doing something that it thinks is better for you than you think is better for doing it.

And inevitably there'll be a situation where whatever it's doing will actually be more dangerous in some ways

and more unhelpful than helpful.

All right, let's talk about screens.

Obviously way too many fricking screens.

Mercedes tripled down with the hyper screen, but the one that really chased me or what are we?

Boils or brakes?

Boils or brakes.

The one that boils my brakes, Cole, is the passenger screen.

I just did a review of what was the car that had the passenger screen?

Was it the leaf?

Maybe the leaf had the passenger screen.

I don't understand why cars need passenger screens.

I carry around a phone with me and a passenger.

This is the screen I'm going to be looking at.

I promise you Nissan and Porsche.

And Ram.

And Jeep.

Jeep.

This is the screen I'm going to be looking at, the one I'm holding up in my hand,

because this is the screen that I look at all the time as part of everyday life.

I don't need to go and see how fast a car is going.

Ferrari started that.

I really don't need to see that.

You could ask your driver.

I could ask or I could nag the driver.

You say, honey, how fast are you going?

I could nag the driver.

I don't need to control the navigation.

I'm going to use Google to do that or Waze.

I don't need to program the music.

If it's Cole with me in the car, I'll let him program the music because he's got excellent taste in music.

So any of that stuff that that screen is doing, I don't want.

And the one thing that Ram does that I don't want it to do is because there's a screen there,

it reflects my big ass belly right into my face.

So I'm sitting there and every time I look down, I see basically just how fat I've gotten over the years.

And I become very depressed, Ram.

So even when the screen is off, it's making me sad.

Well, it's piano black.

It is.

It reflects everything.

Exactly.

So turning it on is irritating and turning it off is more irritating.

Let's keep going.

Downline boiling by breaks.

This has been in the news.

Retractable door handles.

God, Tesla.

Why?

Why does every freaking engineer have to copy Tesla?

They're not.

I'm sure the arrow gains by retractable door handle or the stylish look of it is not worth the hassle of the damn thing, right?

So I was talking to Jen about this.

Yes.

So we were reviewing a Genesis, you know, G90.

This is now on most vehicles too.

Infinity has these door handles.

Andre, I just pray the trucks don't get them.

Right now, the saving grace is the trucks don't have most trucks.

Is there a truck?

Rivian, okay.

Rivian, I think.

Well, Rivian and well, Cybertruck has no door handles whatsoever.

Yeah, the electric trucks have them.

That's why electric trucks aren't selling, Andre.

Exactly.

We put our finger on it.

Door handles.

That retract.

Yes.

Let's stop.

We have a Tesla.

We have a Tesla that's 10 years old now.

By the way, it's for sale.

$15,000.

Ask a TFL truck if you want it.

In for a TFL car.

We just had a completely service just did a $2,500 service on it because that's the way we are.

We roll in such a way that we won't sell a car that is not.

And by the way.

In top shape.

The seat still moves.

It has a ghost seat.

Yeah.

So the heater didn't work, which is fixed now, which is of course something we need going into winter.

But the seat also would start moving on its own.

So you'd be driving along.

And the next thing you know, you'd be like, is this on our list?

Self-moving seats?

No, it's not.

Next thing you know, your nose would be against the windscreen because the seat was just attracting

itself.

And I took it into Tesla and I thought it was the little switch and the door track and

the chair track.

Yeah.

And of course they didn't believe me.

And so they replaced the seat module.

And it still does it.

And it does it even more now.

Actually, they made it worse.

Can you believe that?

So when we took it in, the seat would move on its own, but then the little switch would

actually, you know, on the side of the seat, if you got your nose into the windscreen,

you could push the seat back with the little switch.

Yeah.

Now you can't.

Is that switch gone?

It doesn't work anymore.

So now not only does the seat moves, but now the switch, it doesn't sound like a good way

to sell the car.

I'm sure everybody's like putting their hands up.

I want that.

Yeah.

I want Model S.

I want this.

We're going to go take it back to Tesla.

I'm going to chew them out.

Can you just disable that feature?

No.

You can't disable it.

Okay.

But now you can't even put it back to where you need it to be.

So if you're 6'2", or 6'3", like you're Android, you're going to be driving it like you're

5'2", by the time you get to the airport.

Okay.

So here's my final stance on retractable door handles.

It seems like a good party trick when you first bought your Tesla or whatever and you're

showing your neighbor and they're like, ooh, wow.

Your door handles just disappeared into the door.

But other than that, you know, ice, snow, mud, when mud goes over it.

Or if it stops working.

Or it stops working.

Or it traps you.

Or it squeezes your fingers accidentally, crushes your fingers accidentally.

There's so many, or it wears out.

Right?

Everything mechanical like that can wear out.

It will wear out.

It will definitely wear out.

So eventually you'll spend more money fixing it.

So 2,500 on this Tesla.

What happened to a little metal part that you can go like this?

Boop, boop.

And just move it.

I mean, a lot of this is reinventing the wheel.

Literally.

We'll get to that in a second.

But there are things that have been, you know, invented and tested at Nazium because they

work.

And now we've gone away from that.

Let's go to the next one.

We just were doing this just in on the Volkswagen ID Buzz.

Yes.

Which is full of this thing.

And that is Haptic Controls.

Haptic Controls.

And if you really want to add insult to injury, put Haptic Controls and make them piano black.

Because that way not only do you not feel it, can you not feel it or see it or control

it.

But it covers itself in the most obnoxious dust possible, which will never go away.

And never slide into your face.

Exactly.

So Haptic Controls with piano black on top.

You designers have just created the perfect storm of useless crap that you could stick

in a car.

Yes.

I agree.

I mean, new manufacturers like Scout realize this and thank goodness because when we saw

the Scout prototypes, right?

Scout Terra truck, they have a lot of physical switches and buttons and knobs.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So, you know, I know they cost more money, right?

I mean, because if you were to make every feature into its own button, mechanical button, then

yes, it's not very expendable, you know, it is costly.

I'm going to jump ahead on this and you can get rid of it.

Getting rid of light switches, which is something that both the GMC Canyon that we have has

done.

And now the Ford expedition is also done.

Yes, several of them are doing this.

And they got rid of the light switch, which to me is just unthinkable because you need

to be able to turn your headlights on if you're driving at night.

And now those things are in the screen.

If your screen takes a dump or for some reason, if the computer decides that the lights don't

need to be on, you only have one way to control it and that is through the screen, which to

me just seems like a problem that's asking for a fix.

So, I can kind of see where manufacturers were going with the removing of the physical

light switch because automatic headlamps have been around for many, many years.

We're kind of used to automatic headlamps.

When it gets dark, they come on, when it gets light, like going into a tunnel, coming out

of the tunnel or whatever have you, they work.

And they figured, you know what, that works.

Let's remove the physical switch.

But what do we do once again?

At the campsite, I need a light to see the campsite.

I come up to the vehicle, there's no switch to pull.

Now I have to power up the accessory on the vehicle and go into the screen and then change

my lights.

They just added several steps to what was just one button.

Yeah, once again, complexity for the sake of style or for the sake of being counting,

but not for the sake of the owner or the buyer of that vehicle.

All right, next one on our list is ADAS.

I'm going to keep this very simple.

Just get rid of ADAS until we have literally level five driving.

It's just confusing.

You have these different levels of ADAS just stands for the automatic driver assistance

systems, which can and probably do save lives.

But every time I get one and all that ADAS stuff is enabled, it drives me absolutely crazy.

In other words, when it tries to pull the steering wheel out of my hand because I've

mistakenly crossed a line.

Or not mistakenly, what is an issue we face while going to the ranch?

Bicyclists on the side of a very narrow highway.

I have to cross yellow line or a white line a lot.

It's legal.

You've got to give them three feet.

Yes, by law you have to give a bicyclist on the side of the highway at least three feet,

right?

So what do you do?

You're crossing lines.

Even when there's a full yellow line, you're allowed to cross it in that circumstance.

But if your ADAS is on, either your seat's going to vibrate if you're a GM vehicle.

It bings and dings.

It's going to try to yank the wheel out of your hands.

Just any of that.

The worst offender we don't have, but we might get, and that is when it dings at you when

you exceed the speed limit, there are numerous instances where it's easy to exceed the speed

limit either not.

And I'm not talking about trying to be speedy racer here.

I'm talking about safety reasons.

Or passing somebody or doing something.

Until you have full autonomy, let me drive the car.

Because humans are really good at either driving or not driving.

What we're not good at is this in-between thing where we sit there and monitor the vehicle

and pretend like we're actually paying attention.

Well, let's face it, Andra, even with blue crews or super crews or full self-driving,

how long before your mind wanders off?

You can, but Ford won't allow your mind to wander because every 20 seconds after you...

It just nags at you.

Yeah, it bings and dings.

And then the other thing that is next on our list, which is probably the one that is the

most egregious of all of these, is powered vents.

Oh my God, I hate powered vents.

One of the things that you don't realize is just how often you actually go and change

the vents.

It's not like you set it and forget it.

The sun comes out and all of a sudden you get hot, so you move the vent.

Cloud comes over, you get cold, you move the vent.

And every time you have to go in, it's like the power door handle, same problem.

Every time you have to go in and fuss with it, it just becomes freaking annoying.

It's also motorized?

Yes.

But we had this debate before, Roman, because I kind of understood where powered vents come from.

It's like, you know, a mom and she may have, or a dad, they may have a child or two children in

the back and they want to control the climate and do entire vehicle all at once.

And the powered vent system allows you to direct air.

I've never seen powered vents in the second row.

No, but you're just going from the side to the windshield.

You can select all of that digitally in the center screen.

So I think that's a cool idea.

I think you've pulled a solution out of your, you know what, Andre?

I'm just trying to give them a little bit of a prop here.

I appreciate you standing up to the manufacturers, but that one came out of somewhere that we

shall not discuss.

Let's talk about the destination fees, Andre, and talk about what happened with the expedition.

So we had an expedition at the office for, as they would say, on test, Andre.

It was on test here.

Long.

No, the high brow journalists and YouTubers say on test.

It was on test.

Okay.

It wasn't on loan.

It was on test.

So we had an expedition on test and it had a destination fee that was $1900 or $19.95.

That was like six months ago.

That was now.

It was two weeks ago.

I know, but it wasn't 1995, two weeks ago.

But yeah, but the, the, the, the Moneroni basically said it was $1900 destination fee,

which is ridiculous because you can, let's say it's not negotiable.

It's not negotiable.

And let's say you can get a BMW from Europe for like 1300.

So these numbers are just, they're just made up numbers that the manufacturer is using to

increase the cost of the vehicle at this point and not actually put it into the real cost of the vehicle where it should be.

Anyway, so this was $1900, but you being a very thorough and very thoughtful journalist.

I was doing my research.

You did your research and by the time we actually got the car, you went on their website and

how much had that destination increased by?

$2595.

So $400 basically.

Well, or 500.

Yes.

Four or $500.

It went out.

A lot.

A lot of dollars.

Yeah.

That is not negotiable.

And it's not, it wasn't just the expedition.

I checked the F-150.

Yeah.

Super duty.

Same thing.

It's just a way of sneaking in more profit or more fees that you can't negotiate and you,

you know, you can't do anything about.

And there's already enough of those shenanigans happening at most dealers or many dealers without

the manufacturers adding to it.

It just creates a feeling that cars when you buy them have to be negotiated.

And you know, it's like when you got an airplane, right?

If you realize that the person next to you paid a completely different amount of money,

it just kind of irks you.

And I kind of feel that way about a car.

That's why I like, I've been an Apple guy ever since I was in college.

But I like the fact that when I go in the Apple store, the price is the price.

And you're buying the...

And no matter which store you enter, it's the same price.

Yeah.

And you're buying that, let's say you're buying the new iPhone, you're going to pay the same

price.

Sure, you might get a discount through your, you know, your provider or something.

But for the most part, it's the same price.

And in the car dealership, it could be whatever the salesman, how the manager feels that day,

you know, which way the wind is blowing from.

And they just feel like, you just end up making you feel like a sucker, like you're a mark

or you're being somehow cheated, even if you're not.

And that's the problem.

Anyway, let's keep going.

How about run flat tires or lack of a spare or the wrong spare?

Well, there's a lot of subjects here.

Yeah.

So run flat, people hate, we know that lack of a spare tire, that little blow up kit.

But the most interesting one is happening in trucks.

Let's talk about the wrong spare.

What does that mean?

So I had a truck Chevy Colorado Trail Boss, right?

It came with really aggressive because I specced it out with these Duratruck territory

MT tires.

These are good years.

They're very beefy.

They have big lugs, right?

They're very aggressive.

They help you go off-road.

And then you go underneath the truck to look at the spare tire, which is there.

And it's just a street tire.

It's completely different from my other tires.

And if you're on the trail and you get a flat and all of a sudden you've got three off-road

tires and one not off-road tire.

If I'm on Red Cone and I have to go through the rock garden, I promise you I do not want

to do that on a street tire because the chances of me blowing out the sidewall or puncturing

it with the pointy rock are pretty significant, which makes that spare tire sort of useless.

Yeah.

And I've seen this over again.

Like, we recently had the Ram Warlock.

Yeah.

Same thing.

Had the Duratrucks very aggressive tires on the outside and then kind of an old-season

tire underneath.

Yeah.

This is the cool thing about trucks.

The manufacturers understood the trucks were work tools and they didn't tend to play these

shenanigans, but now they're playing the shenanigans with pickup trucks as well.

And you know what also irks me?

Like, the latest electric trucks from GM, you know, the CR-84, EV, Silverado, EV trail

boss, they're very beefy tires, right?

They're 35s that arm, but they have no spare whatsoever because it doesn't fit underneath,

right?

These big tires are hard to kind of place inside of a vehicle sometimes.

They don't have spares.

Yeah.

I know.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

So I'm going to put these next two together.

A login screens and pay-per-view or play-per-view stuff.

So login screens are insidious.

Ostensibly, the manufacturer says, hey, if you log into the vehicle, it'll remember your

seating position, remember your temperature, remember your favorite radio stations.

Yeah.

That's nice.

It'll also remember where you're driving.

And it will also share that information at a cost to you, but at profit to the manufacturer

with whatever person wants to know whatever you're up to when you get in their car.

It's just insidious and it's just, you know, cars to me always represented freedom.

So do trucks.

And now not only is the manufacturer tracking me, but they're selling that information.

That is not cool.

And let's say that you've got...

That's more than not cool.

No.

Let's say that you've got some kind of a medical condition and all of a sudden, you know, next

thing you know, hey, do you have cancer?

Right?

How does your phone know that you have cancer?

Unless, of course, the car is tracking that you're going to a local cancer clinic.

I'm not saying that this is something that's being done, but I suspect it is.

I suspect this is where it's heading.

And then the other thing in Toyota does is the pay-per-view stuff.

In other words, pay-per-use.

Well, everybody now does this.

If you want to unlock all the features of the car, whether it's more horsepower or whether

it's more...

Maybe remote start or something like that.

Or maybe it's like a satellite radio or...

Blue cruise.

Is a subscription.

Super cruise.

This is a subscription.

What's the other one?

Satellite radio.

The one that GM does, the safety thing.

Oh, on-star?

On-star.

Yeah.

Or it notifies people in campaigns of a crash.

Or like Toyota does this in their system if you want to actually have all of the use

of all of the car's IP.

If you want to have full use of like, I think in Toyota's navigation, make it native.

You can always have navigation in your phone.

But if you don't want to use it in your phone, if you want the native system, you get to

pay for it.

Yeah.

Come on, guys.

Cars already...

The average cost of cars already $50,000.

Do you really need to now penny, nickel and dime us so that we pay extra for some other

things?

It's just crazy.

Just crazy.

It's embarrassing.

It makes car companies, if you're listening to me, anybody, it makes you look like your

cheap uncle.

So here's the way to solve this.

I have a solution.

Yeah.

Just for this item.

I hate subscriptions because I think all of us pay for many different subscriptions like

our producer Cole to watch a football game.

Oh, yeah.

It's just so much.

You have to pay three different providers for that.

Cole was saying he has to pay three different providers to watch all the football games.

I know.

But there's a solution for cars and trucks.

Create enthusiast items.

For example, for me, I love tow trailers all the time.

And a lot of the vehicles don't provide a lot of the, you know, gauges that are required

for me by me to monitor the truck.

Just charge me another hundred dollars, not a subscription, but a one time fee and give

me more gauges.

I'll pay for that.

That's the way for that.

But there are people saying that they'll pay for Google native Google Android apps, right?

And there are people saying that they'll pay for Blue Cruise.

So there's always somebody who's willing to pay.

And from a manufacturer point of view, if you're willing to pay for this, then there

are probably other people in the pay for it.

Here's the real solution.

This is the answer.

What?

The answer is build a freaking cheap truck or car like Slate, maybe.

I don't know.

And then, then if you want to go and say, hey, you want navigation or you want ADAS or you

want more horsepower, retractable door handles, then charge me for it.

At that point, if I'm paying $20,000 for a Slate, I'm like, hell, yeah, okay.

It's kind of like Spirit Airlines or Frontier.

It kind of makes sense.

If I'm paying $14.99 to fly to Fort Lauderdale, then I'm probably going to pay $100 to bring

my bags on board and $15 for a Coke.

I understand that.

I understand low cost airlines.

And I understand that if you're paying nothing for the car or very little, then maybe you

have to make up that somewhere else.

But don't charge me $50,000.

Don't charge me premium pricing.

Or $80,000.

And then, yeah.

And it's like I said, it looks like you're a cheap uncle.

Like he brings you lunch.

And by the way, where's the 20 you owe me?

All right.

This is also another way that makes car makers look cheap.

Non-powered passenger seats.

What's wrong with that?

Because I feel like if I'm a passenger, I'm a second-class citizen.

It's so often that you have, a driver has full passenger electric controls.

But the driver is the second-class poor citizen who has to.

Yeah.

So the passenger gets non-powered seats, whereas the driver gets all of the luxuries.

Why not just put it in both seats?

Come on.

Don't cheap out.

But you're saving weight.

You're saving cost.

I'm okay with that.

Simplicity.

I can move my own seat.

I feel like I'm a bad host.

I feel like you get in my car, Andre.

I sit in the car and I'm like, ugh.

I retract the seat.

I move my lumbar support.

I got that 800-way thing.

And I'm so comfortable.

And they're like, hey, Andre, just reach underneath there between your legs and slide back and

forth.

And then reach behind you.

And you may feel a lever where you can actually recline or decline the seats.

And I'm like.

I can't see the message.

Can you see Brian's message over there?

Can you give us Brian's message, please?

No.

It's on the screen.

It's being blocked by the camera.

Oh.

Oh, I see.

Can you read it?

Can you give me the front of my glasses now?

You make me feel old.

Hold on.

Okay, Brian.

Thank you.

I got it.

Brian, 100% agree that dealer's actions make me feel dirty.

And like I don't want to deal with them.

Excellent point, Roman.

Thank you, Brian.

Appreciate it.

Brian agrees with you.

I'm with Roman on the powered passenger seat once again.

Yeah.

And then how about this one?

How about when they cheap out on the lumbar?

I have a bad back.

And lumbar, to me, is so critical, especially on any trip over, let's say, an hour.

And I hate when they just decide how much lumbar, even like the European manual ones.

Remember, once upon a time, Andre, you were a Volkswagen guy once upon a time.

Yes.

Volkswagen would do this.

Oh, like a little lever.

A little lever on the inside of the seat.

Yes.

At the outside.

And you would just push it forward and it would push out the lumbar.

Boom.

Done.

How expensive can that be?

I don't know.

I hate it when I get in the seat.

And actually, the i8 that we own, which is a very $150,000 car, no lumbar.

Really?

Yeah.

I think they were mindful about weight, cost.

That could be weight.

That one actually could be weight.

Well, because it's a hybrid.

It's kind of a high-strength car.

It was like their moonshot.

So that's like sending a rocket to the moon.

Lumbar support?

You're probably going to be a little wary of added weight.

All right, let's finish this up.

So here's one of the biggest ones that I absolutely hate.

And then when I get in the car and I see this, I just want to walk out.

Non-round steering wheels.

Yeah, I agree.

Why do we have to have squircles?

Either squircles or little pentagons or yokes.

Little yokes to steer with.

Yeah, I don't know why.

Why reinvent the wheel?

And speaking of reinvent the wheel, how about the ever-changing shift

slash knob slash lever slash rotary knob slash stock

slash button for engaging transmissions.

Just pick one and stick with it.

You know what I used to like and I still love?

What's that?

And a lot of new vehicles also have this column shift.

Sure, like just go down.

Go down for drive, up for reverse, up for park.

Hey, Brian, thanks for all the comments.

He's got some more.

Yeah, I agree.

I also have a bet back.

Brian, you should do this podcast.

You can do the grumpy podcast for us.

Manufacturers that make them really worthwhile.

Yeah, and here's the scary part.

We're all done with this list.

I came up with this list in like five minutes.

I didn't have to actually use a lot of brain power on this list.

That's how easy this was because over the last, let's say, five to ten years,

manufacturers have decided they're going to reinvent everything

and I blame Tesla for this because Tesla came along

and completely rethought what a car is.

It took it from a car to mobility.

It took it from kind of car-centric to tech-centric.

And now all the other manufacturers are following suit.

Well, because they saw their stock price.

Everybody saw Tesla stock price and they're like, why can't we be like them?

Are you saying the GMs that start building robots?

Maybe, yeah.

I'll end on this trivia before we close.

The word robot, where did the word come from?

It's near and dear to my heart.

I'll give you a clue.

And it's the same word for the same thing everywhere in the country,

in the world as well.

So it's not just in America, but it's robot is robot in Spanish and English.

I don't know if it's robot in Chinese, I'm guessing,

but it came from one place and you guys have to name where the word robot came from.

Like I say, it's near and dear to my heart.

So that's a hint.

You know, robot is robot in Russian.

Yeah, exactly.

Is it robot in Spanish?

Hello?

Hello, anybody out there?

Cole, do you know Spanish?

By the way, Cole is from Oregon.

You can't get a Hellcat Durango either, so.

Oh, you're one of the Carb State people too.

I know, were you punning and getting one, getting her that RAV4?

Yeah, a couple.

He's getting a couple.

Yeah.

So invested in it while he can.

So please comment, what is the origin of the word robot?

Yeah, why is it the same?

Robotics, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, just the word robot.

Yeah.

All right, guys, thank you for watching and listening.

If you want to watch this, feel free to head on over to TFL Talk.

That's our podcast channel.

Andre, thank you for sitting in for Tommy today.

I'm really grateful that you had the time to do this.

You're welcome.

Yes.

And thank you guys for watching.

And remember, where should they go if they want to see all of our...

Actually, before we do that, why don't we tell them what videos are being

broadcast, published this weekend?

Because we got a bunch of great stuff coming out this weekend.

I love your video.

So why don't you tell them about the three truck comparison?

We're trying to figure out what is the best V8 brand new pickup truck

with a V8 engine for towing.

So we're comparing a GM V8 5.3, Hemi 5.7, and Ford 5.0 Coyote engine.

So one video that's coming this weekend.

Up the Ike.

Up the Ike gauntlet.

Then on Afro channel, our colleague, Case, who's actually with Tommy.

Yes.

On the Toyota program.

8x8.

He drives an 8x8 man cat.

This is a military truck from Germany.

He drives it.

It's a pretty awesome video.

It's not a hybrid human that's half man, half cat.

That would be more interesting in some ways.

So you know, there's a company called MAN, MAN.

But then they built military trucks.

And they were parking with Caterpillar?

No.

But they called them category one.

Oh, so that's where the category is.

So they shortened the category.

They said, how about we call them man cats?

OK.

I don't know why.

But this is amazing.

Yeah.

And now on our classics channel, I have a sickness.

We have this auction here in Denver called the donated car auction,

where people basically donate cars to their favorite charities.

Let's say you have a favorite charity that you like to support.

A lot of people do.

But also like unwanted cars.

Yeah.

A lot of people do that with like their local radio and national public radio stations.

Is it MPR?

Yeah.

Stations.

Then of course those radio stations either take them to the junkyard and they get whatever

junkyard pays for them.

Or they take them to this donated car auction.

And usually the donated cars, a lot of them aren't actually bad.

They're just either unwanted or a way to raise money.

Broke that was too expensive to fix or something like that.

So you can get screaming bargains.

Actually Tommy got his land rover at this auction.

And he still drives it.

It still drives it.

Yeah.

It's called the peak auto.

I shouldn't be telling people because they're going to go to it.

No.

It doesn't exist.

This auction doesn't exist.

The donated car auction.

It's peak donated car auction.

It's peak, right?

Peak auto auction.

Donated car auction.

Because there's a bunch of them.

Most of them are basically.

Actually a lot of states have peak auto auctions.

Yeah.

So most of these are like wreckers and.

Towing companies.

Toys companies who basically sell the cars that they either tow back to the yard and

then the people who don't want them or they are wrecked.

But these are actually real cars that have real titles that mostly run.

So I picked up.

Get this.

I picked up the only Italian Cadillac.

You guys know what that is?

No.

Brian is already commenting about the robot.

Brian, thank you very much.

What did he say?

Did he get it?

I think he got it.

What the hell?

Brian?

Yeah.

Can we send him our challenge coin?

Yeah, we'll send you a challenge coin.

You got it, Brian.

Can you please email ask at tfltruck.com?

We can look up his address in the Patreon.

He's a Patreon.

Okay.

You're a Patreon supporter.

We'll send you a challenge coin.

A TFL challenge coin.

Also, Sean D says he's guessing the Cadillac.

Okay.

Allante.

Yep.

You got it.

So Sean, we will send you a sticker because that was an easy one.

But what did Brian say?

We got to give him the answer.

What did he say about the term robot?

He says originated from a Czech word.

Who's checking this room?

Robota.

Yes.

Very good.

It's a Czech word.

Okay.

Yeah.

Take that, Mr. Russian.

It's the Czechs who came up with that word.

I'm not going to argue with this right now.

Yeah.

So we have these challenge coins.

They're cool.

Andre made them.

Thank you very much.

And we'll, Brian, we'll send you one of those.

I think your address is in Patreon.

And then Sean, Sean, did he get, did he get the Allante right?

Yeah, he did.

All right.

Congratulations.

Yeah.

Just shoot us an email guys.

Just to be on the safe side.

Yeah.

Cause I don't know if we have it.

So Sean, you can send it to info at TFL car or ask at TFL truck.com.

Both of those.

And we'll send you that as a thank you for participating in this podcast.

And if you guys want to join us, please head on over to patreon slash TFL car.com where

you can become part of the team and you get early access to videos.

You get early access to unusual and interesting content that we don't publish anywhere else.

And you get, of course, this podcast and you get the grateful support and thanks of a

team that really appreciates that you guys are helping us pay the bills.

Cause it's not getting any easier, my friend.

It's not.

That's getting harder.

No, it's not getting an easier.

Um, so, um, so that's videos coming, right?

Yeah.

So we bought an Alante and that video is coming up on classics.

So we've got the truck video.

We got the off road video.

We got the classics video.

I think that's it.

That's plenty.

What's your, what's the truck podcast?

There's a truck podcast to this publishing.

What's, what did you guys talk about with case?

Uh, we weren't that grumpy.

I mean, we were a little grumpy.

The grumpy podcast.

We should call this the grumpy podcast.

Who will remember that?

But, but we talked about really coolest trucks, pickup trucks that we can't

have.

So trucks that are sold in other markets, mainly Australia.

So our friends in Australia, you're quite lucky.

You do have some really cool stuff over there, um, that we can get.

And we're quite upset by this.

So if you're a patron, you probably already listened to it or you have

access to it.

Well, we had a, no, we had a technical difficulty.

Equipment failure.

Didn't we?

Yes.

We had something fail, but thanks to your support on patreon.com.

We will be able to, we're fixing it.

We fixed it.

Well, yeah, we bought a new piece of equipment.

Yes.

It's a box.

It's $200 box.

The Zach bought that we now have to pay for it.

So thank you Zach as well for being so conscientious.

All right.

We'll see you next time.

Ciao.

Time is precious and so are our pets.

So time with our pets is extra precious.

That's why we started Dutch.

Dutch provides 24 seven access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits

and follow-ups for up to five pets.

You can message a vet at any time and schedule a video visit the same day.

Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free.

With Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind

when it comes to their vet care.

Go to Dutch.com to get vet care that is always there for just $92 a year.

Ep. 303: Here's Why Roman Is So Grumpy About The New Mustang GTD!

About this episode

Ford Mustang GTD

Porsche 911

Golf Gtd

Chevrolet C8

Ford Fairlane

Ford F150

Shelby GT500

Ford Gt

F-150 Raptor

Nissan Rogue

Nissan Frontier

Jeep Wrangler

Ford Bronco

Nissan Leaf

Porsche Macan

Nissan XTerra

Challenger Hellcat

Jeep Gladiator

Toyota RAV4

Infiniti QX80

Nissan Armada

Jeep Grand Cherokee

Ford Expedition

Genesis G90

Tesla Cybertruck

Tesla Model S

Volkswagen Id

Terra Scout Terra

Gmc Canyon

Chevrolet Ev Silverado

i8 (I12)

Cadillac Allante

Request an Explanation

Want to learn more?

Help improve this episode

More from TFL Car Chat