Ep. 315: New Car Bargains. Classic Cars Going up in Value. Lexus Is Selling A Toyota?

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Hey, Andre, thanks for joining me today on a little bit of a podcast slash video, TFL car chat, and we are here talking about some really interesting things, cars that are left on parking lots, on a deal of a lot, sorry, where we might be able to get a bargain at the end of the year?

Yes, I'm really curious about this list.

Yeah, we got a list at Hagerty. Basically, classic cars that they think are going to appreciate. They always do this every year. They just publish their new list. And by the way, you're here.

Bull Market list.

Bull Market here. We'll talk about that. And of course, you are here.

Yeah, where's Tommy? And where?

He's just watched the Seth Meyers show being recorded in New York.

What?

Yeah, he just texted me.

Why are we not there?

Because he's on vacation in New York City for the holidays.

Okay, good.

And he went to the recording of the Seth Meyers show, and he said it was a lot of fun.

You know what? My wife was recently, like last year, she was there for holidays. And the city just has a lot of energy.

You know, there's a Rockefeller Center. There's a Christmas tree. There's Lego store. I mean, there's everything.

There's your sister.

There's my sister lives there. I mean, it's a fun place.

Him and his lovely wife are enjoying a week in New York, so I appreciate you being here.

But before we get to all that, let's talk about some news.

Yes, we must talk news.

So I don't want to rehash news that happened a week ago, but a week ago when I introduced a new sports car is born.

Yes, actually two or three new sports cars, actually.

Yeah, but the one I want to talk about is the GR GT, which is the one that's up on the screen.

It's this long hooded, very much classic, impressive car.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, I think if you I don't want to go into all the details, because like I said, that that story can ask one thing.

First, do you like the name GR GT?

It's not bad. It's it could be worse. OK, I struggle with it because I don't know which one to put first.

It's is a GT GR or is it GR GT? Yeah, I struggle with that.

But I also introduced an electric version. And this is where I want to talk about called the Lexus.

What's the Lexus? LFA, the new LFA.

Yes. And it's electric, dude.

Producer Cole and I, and I think you were discussing this a couple days back.

We can't believe it's electric. Can you believe it?

Yeah, I can believe it. I think it's smart.

I think a lot of people aren't happy about it being electric because right now we're living in a time where electric cars are no longer the car desure.

Yes. But Roman, what was the original LFA known for?

A 10 cylinder.

And also the sound that this engine used to make.

Sure.

This car, I don't know what kind of sound it's going to be making.

Well, they said they might take some of Hyundai's, you know, pioneering work and have a shift and maybe have like real engine note.

I think I need to buy the Fred Zonic system from Dodge.

They should buy the Fred Zonic system.

They should license. Well, Hyundai does really good sound, but they do like these silly like four cylinder engines from their heritage because they don't have a real V8 race car engine yet.

When I was, I got lucky, I was in South Korea this year, earlier this year, and I was talking to some Hyundai engineers and they actually told me because they were showing me one of their electric race cars.

One of them went up by speak, right hill climb, and they said that there is a way to use the bodywork to amplify some of the sounds that electric motors make that actually makes it real, not fake noises, you know, that you generate using speakers.

But they were talking about actually amplifying some noises using the bodywork of the car, which is really cool.

Yeah, I mean, it would sound like maybe like one of those Star Wars skimmers, you know, something like that.

Yeah, like a spaceship or something like that.

That'd be cool.

But like I say, I don't necessarily want to, you know, rehash the stuff that's already out there about the GRGT.

But I do want to talk about a couple of bits of news and my opinion on one thing.

So the bit of news that was kind of interesting, but I'm not sure why they're doing this when we need to hash this out is they announced they're not going to sell it at Toyota dealers.

What is it going to be sold?

It's going to be sold to Lexus dealers.

The GRGT sports car?

Yeah.

Can I call it super car?

Sure.

Is that, I mean, it's, it's pretty super.

I mean, we don't know a lot about it in terms of pricing.

We're expecting it to be right around, they're saying they're benchmarking competitors.

So if they benchmark the Corvette, figure 200,000, I'm talking about the ZR1.

Yeah.

And if they benchmark the GT3, then you're like more like 300,000.

But I think it'll be more in the $200,000 range.

That kind of feels right.

Yeah, it's going to sound super.

It's a super car.

Yeah.

But imagine here, here's a, I think of proper analogy.

Imagine if GM had decided we're not going to sell the Corvette as a Chevy, but we're going to sell it as a Cadillac in Cadillac dealers as a Chevy Corvette.

Why would you do that Toyota?

Why would you sell a Toyota through Lexus dealers?

And I guess I understand why the thinking is, because like the dealers are more exclusive.

They probably have like a higher level of customer...

Cappuccino.

Wealth, I was going to say.

Can I get a Cappuccino to a Lexus dealer?

Well, your wife used to own a Lexus RX.

Yes, she did.

And you were telling me like she really enjoyed, you enjoyed going to a Lexus dealership.

Yeah, they have like, you know, they had like, like you said, the almost, I think some have spas.

Ooh.

And they have, you know, like computer stations and it's a very...

But it's still a Toyota and Lexus has the LFA.

It doesn't make sense.

I think it's a recipe to piss off a lot of Toyota dealers.

I'll tell you that.

Also, it's a recipe for, let's say I bought my GRGT and I live in a kind of out of the way place.

Let's say I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Yeah, there aren't a lot of Lexus dealers out there.

But there might be a Toyota dealer nearby.

Yeah.

So where do I go?

Do I go to a Toyota dealer that's nearby?

Lexus.

Or do I have to go to a Lexus dealer somewhere else?

And then it's also, when you think about it, it's also odd because when I was in Japan,

they announced that they're going to sell the new Century, right?

The Hyundai Bespoke, more...

Where are you going to sell that?

Lexus.

Wow, Lexus dealer.

So Lexus is getting the LFA electric.

And I like the fact that there's giving people choice.

If you want electric, get the LFA.

If you want, you know, a twin-turbo, I think, is it a twin-turbo V8?

Yeah, with a hybrid, with a little electric motor.

Yeah, 600 plus horsepower.

Yeah.

Then, which isn't that much, but I think it's a good number.

Then you can go internal combustion.

But why is it not going through Toyota?

Why are we having to go to...

I don't like that.

I don't like that either.

I think a lot of Toyota dealers are going to find, they're going to get their nose

out of joint because of that.

Because let's face it, a lot of Toyota dealers are very wealthy.

And I think they want one.

And some might own also Lexus dealerships, but there are a lot.

A lot of those dealers could be not just sellers of that car, but customers.

And now that they're being sold through Lexus.

And also there is a GR lineage, right?

There is GR Corolla that's next to it, right?

There's a GR Supra that's maced.

I know it's being discontinued.

But there's other GR lineup of cars that are also should be next to it, right?

Why would you separate this other car, put it somewhere else?

Like I say, like selling a Chevy Corvette at a Cadillac dealership.

Now, if you rebranded the C8 as a Cadillac, that'll be a different story.

Right, but they didn't.

They made the LFA as which makes sense.

Yes.

And the other thing I noticed is, and this is kind of let's call it industry

insider review.

Yes.

And it does cut a little close to the bone.

I'll give you that because when we started TFL, we didn't get a lot of

respect because we were doing video, right?

2009, we were one of the early YouTubers out there doing video.

And I would go on to you.

Yeah, me and Nathan sometimes or go on Tommy and Tommy and then you will go on

these programs and, you know, the manufacturers rank publications based

on how important they think they are or maybe their reach and we would

always be like B or C and yet it was clear even back then that video was

going to be the way that you're going to sell cars and you're going

to get the word out about cars.

And we would always be kind of the second in line after the print

people, actually third in line.

So first, the buff books, they got the like the first two months, three

months advanced.

What's the buff book?

Motor Trend, Car and Driver, Road and Track, Automobile.

So they kind of the big four or the big five.

Yeah, they went on these long leads so they would always be invited.

And then the regular like print people went next.

So like if you were a reporter for...

Wall Street Journal.

Yeah, exactly.

Bloomberg.

Yeah, Bloomberg or Automotive News or like even like your local...

Detroit Free Press.

Yeah, or like the auto editor for the Denver Post, whatever.

And then of course all the people who have digital media like blogs

and then somewhere in the back we were who was this video...

Some video guys.

Video guys who were painting the ass because we took a lot more

time and we had to shoot a lot more videos.

And over time, I think it flipped because manufacturers

realized that the video component in terms of reach

and in terms of helping people buy cars...

It's also excitement, creating lust for these things.

It was much more relevant today that I don't want to say important.

I don't want to say relevant than like a buff book that came out once a month.

And you can see that because the magazines have some of them gone

quarterly, they've shrunk in size, their staffs have shrunk in size.

And they've also consolidated.

So once upon a time, all those magazines were owned by different companies.

Now they're owned by...

One or two different companies.

No, it's one.

Most of them are owned by...

God, what is it?

Same company.

I can't think of it now.

It's escaping me too.

Hurst.

Yeah, Hurst.

And they also only bring a trailer, which probably makes more money

than all the magazines combined.

But I'm sure it makes more money than all the magazines combined.

But anyway, well, they have websites too.

They do.

And they did 10 years ago and 20 years ago.

But when they rolled out the GR, they rolled it out in Japan.

I think it was at Fuji Raceway, which Toyota owns.

And were there any video people there?

Nope.

So here's...

It was all the magazines.

And back then, and this is still true today,

I love these guys.

They're great journalists.

But as a...

I got to do both when I was in my early career.

I was both a print journalist for a newspaper.

And there's very few people who do both

because the two aren't compatible.

Like some people like Clarkson from Top Gear,

they're really good at writing and presenting.

But that is a very...

But those are different arts.

Very different skillset because print you tell

and video you show.

So the natural inclination of any print reporter is a tell.

But with video, it's not about me telling,

it's about me showing.

And it's a whole different way of thinking about

the way you present the information.

So you know what happened to me?

I heard about this car coming out.

Right.

It flickered on my Instagram reel and my other reel.

And I immediately went to YouTube

and I typed in Toyota GRGT.

And like one short popped up.

One short.

And I was like, wait a minute.

I know we weren't there.

And I was like, where is everybody else?

Where is Sofjan?

Where is...

I don't know.

Names any YouTuber.

Where is like pushing pistons, right?

Yeah.

He's really popular.

And you know, we go...

I'm gonna bang our drum a little bit.

We got 1.3 million on TikTok.

We've got like almost a million on Facebook

because we do a lot of shorts.

And long form video is also very different

from doing short form video.

But these print reporters who were there

are just not good at doing video.

And so you ended up with a bunch of people

who did really bad long form

or even short form videos.

And I was like...

But I didn't even see any...

They weren't...

The first day.

Nothing came out.

And then finally Top Gear dropped their video.

One publication, Top Gear is really good.

And they dropped their video.

And I was very thankful

because they actually showed the naked chassis.

Remember, they showed the engine.

They showed the...

You could see the transaxle.

You could see all of that stuff.

But I felt like I was back in 2010.

I mean, I was like, holy cow.

And with shorts, it's even more important.

Like with shorts, you literally...

It used to be like you had four words

to capture someone's attention.

Now you have like one word.

And if you start your short,

hey guys, I'm here in Japan

where Toyota just unveiled the GRGT.

Everybody clicked out.

Everybody has clicked out by the end of the word guys.

Hi guys.

Everybody's gone.

And yet this is exactly what we got

from the print guys there and gals.

And I'm like scratching my head.

I'm like, why guys?

Come on.

Bring the people who are good at this art form

and this news form

that is now the dominant and most interesting

and most relevant form.

And yet you bring out...

And these aren't old dinosaurs there

but you bring out the print folk

and they're gonna write their story.

And if they're fast, they'll write it overnight

or they'll publish it three months from now

in the magazine

because that's how far magazines are ahead.

And so I don't understand why none of that happened.

Like it felt like 2010.

By the way, Don is here.

We're also live on patreon.com.tfl car.

Nice.

So thank you for joining us.

Hey Don, nice to have you.

And Don I think is disappointing.

He wanted to see Tommy here, not me.

So sorry, sorry Don.

Oh no.

Really, I apologize.

You will see Tommy next week.

Watch him tonight on Seth Meyers.

He's in the audience if you wanna see him.

He's in the audience, not in the chair.

He's not, no, we didn't get invited.

He's in his wife or in the audience.

I'm sorry Don, we'll get to that next week.

All right, so that was the first topic.

The second topic I wanna talk about is,

we did a video that became very popular

actually on TFL Japan.

Almost more popular than when President Trump, of course,

said that he wanted cute cars from Japan.

Cool, can you show TFL Japan really quick?

It's kind of a channel we recently started.

Yeah, we started this year.

And that's our biggest video.

I think it went over 200,000

where basically me and Andre did an editorial video

where we talked about what was...

The K-Trucks.

The K-Trucks, it was a practical because,

and it's incredible how many people

missed the gist of that story.

And I keep hearing it over and over again.

So I was just listening to one of my podcasts

and on the podcast they said,

oh, President Trump wants to import K-cars.

And I'm like, where did you get that, right?

No, she said, let's build them here.

I think, yeah, I think people missed that part.

I think what he said was we wanna build K-cars

or small cars in America.

And everybody's like, hey, I get to import

my favorite, you know, Jimny.

Well, we do too.

We wanna import Jimny, but that wasn't the whole point.

That was the point.

And it's just incredible how we go from, you know,

a president saying I want K-cars in America

to I want K-cars to be built in America

to people saying now I can import my beautiful

whatever Japanese car you have.

And also we don't know how this is gonna play out.

We don't.

Fiat announced something.

Yeah, that was a little baby topolino is coming.

Yeah, they're gonna bring the topolino.

Cole, did you see this?

That was smart, by the way.

Somebody at Stellantis was on the ball.

Yeah, cause a topolino.

A Fiat topolino.

They had been, Fiat had been toying.

Stellantis had been toying with us

saying they might bring it.

So this is not something new.

And so when President Trump goes out and says

we need to build small cars here,

all of a sudden they're like, hell yeah,

we're bringing the topolino in.

Yes.

There it is.

Actually, we have a video of it, Cole.

Tommy shot it at the LA Auto Show.

So this is a car that has a top speed of 28 miles an hour.

That's like, you forget it.

It's all electric.

It has a range of 50 miles.

So it's basically a really cute golf cart.

Yeah, where you could drive it

in your neighborhood, basically.

Yeah, it's a neighborhood kind of car.

And I like it.

So it's not a real car.

I like it, but oh, God, I don't know if I could,

if I could actually, or maybe he did a short on it.

Maybe it was just, there it is.

Was that the short?

Keep going down, down, down, down, down.

Scroll down, right on the left.

Is that ours or is that somebody else's?

Not ours.

Not ours, anyway.

There's forest.

What was forest?

He should have done the GRG team.

But the point is like this is,

forest wasn't there either.

The point is this is the kind of smart

where you jump on top of the news cycle

and all of a sudden instead of like,

getting all the hatred that they would normally get

because all the anti EV people were like,

yeah, they're bringing this little tiny ADS car in.

Instead, you get everybody like, holy cow,

it's already happening.

Fiat is already taking the president's advice

and bringing it in, even though I think

they had been toying with bringing their car in.

Yeah, that was smart.

Even though it may never come.

It may never come.

Right, it's one thing to say,

you know what, we have a car

that we could consider bringing,

but a lot of things have to happen

in order to actually bring it here.

Yeah, I don't know.

And I think in our tutorial,

which was I think still the most important thing we said,

I'm not sure there's a market for K cars

or Q cars in America.

The problem is in America,

people associate cheap with small.

They associate all these negative connotations.

Do you remember when the smart car was here?

And it's no longer here.

But you remember, it's a bigger problem.

You remember when you saw a smart car drive down the road

and you looked at the owner?

What did you think about that person, right?

It wasn't like that guy or gal is really smart

because they're driving a smart car, right?

It was kind of the exact opposite.

It was like there's kind of a loser who can't afford it.

Well, no, I wasn't passing judgment like this.

I think a lot of people were passing judgment.

I'm not saying they were the right thing.

That was the vibe that you got

when you were driving all these.

What was a bummer for me when I was,

I actually considered buying a smart car.

But when I saw the, I know, it was kind of cute.

But personally speaking, when I looked at the,

not the electric one, but the standard smart car,

it actually wasn't any more efficient

than like a Honda Civic.

Yeah, so why?

So I was like, why?

I mean, if it was twice more efficient.

Because you could back into it in a parking space and park it.

If I lived in, I know, if I lived in Manhattan,

maybe I could buy one.

And even in Manhattan, people didn't buy them.

Yeah, I know.

Look, okay, let me put it this way.

All right, you're in Manhattan

and there's two people that are driving down the street.

All right?

Now we're going back to smart car times.

Not today, but when the smart car was around,

which was like 10 years ago, right?

Two people driving down the street.

One of them is, let's call it a guy

in his, let's say mid fifties,

which is kind of where the demographic was,

driving a smart car.

And there's another guy in his mid fifties cruising down

in a town car with a chauffeur.

Whoa.

What, you know, which one of those two

do you think is more successful?

Which one, which one is the winner?

I would think a person who's being chauffeured

in a nice black automobile probably is the winner.

Yeah, and I think this was always a problem.

And the Tupolino has been around a long time.

It's basically one of those cars,

if you get the convertible or the,

it has a rope for a door.

So it's one of those cars that you would like have

on the beach or have on your yacht when you're in Monaco

and then you can take it off your yacht

and zip around town with it.

So it may, it may work like,

like I've seen a lot of mini-mokes running around

where they're rental cars.

I think the Tupolino may have that kind of vibe to it.

I mean, you know what a mini-moke is, right?

Yeah, like discovering a little city, you know,

by the beach.

Look up a mini-moke and they become electric cars.

They're basically like little golf carts.

Yeah, yeah, there you go.

That's a mini-moke.

They were built in Australia.

Yes, they look weird.

I think they were engineered by Land Rover

for the Army, if I remember right.

And the Army said, no, these are just like jeeps.

And then they sold them in Australia

as little beach cars.

And now I think there's a Chinese company

that's building electric versions of it.

And if you go to places like Solvang in California,

you'll see them running around where people just go there.

Or like Key West maybe or something.

Yeah, tourist town, yeah.

And I think the Tupolino would be good for that.

But I don't think anybody would buy it

as they're like, you know, go to work car.

Would you buy a Tupolino?

Cole?

He would?

I would drive that car.

No, he's yelping at Cole.

No, Cole, Cole, even.

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But Cole is considering a Prius, did you know this?

Yeah, well, a Prius is good.

Well, efficiency.

We had a Prius in this, what was the name of the color?

I forgot the color, it was this mustard yellow.

Yeah, forget the official name of that color.

Yeah, Karashi.

Oh, yes, it's like a Japanese word.

Yeah, there you go, you just saw it, yeah.

And we took a drag racing.

We drove the...

Karashi, yes.

We drove the beans out of it and we barely used

like an eighth of a tank of gas.

Yeah, we used nothing.

It was incredible.

Yes.

And now you can get them in all-wheel drive?

Yeah, pretty amazing.

And four doors too.

I mean, it's an actual car.

And it's good looking, it's sexy, it's like webbed back.

And the problem with the Prius,

because we live in Colorado, so we like all-wheel drive,

the problem with the Prius one is it only was

an all-wheel drive up to about 25 miles an hour.

So it was meant to be kind of just...

Like a get-un-stuck.

Get-un-stuck.

And my man, Sophie, tried that when we launched it

in a field in snow and it didn't get unstuck.

Wow.

Because it was on like summer tires or all seasons

and we had a tractor to pull out.

Sorry, Sophie, I don't mean to throw you under the bus,

but it was pretty funny how he got it stuck in a field.

So now all-wheel drive system is that electric motor

in the back that Toyota does.

And so it can be all-wheel drive beyond 25 miles an hour.

What do you think of it?

Do you like it?

The Prius?

Yes, I loved everything about it

except hitting my head on the A-pillar

because it's so swept back when I would get out

that sometimes I would hit my head on it.

So maybe it's not for the big guys,

but I really like the efficiency of it

and just how it drives.

You know, it actually drives kind of fun.

The part that I didn't like is the part

where the display, the dashboard is way out in front of you.

So you have the steering wheel

and then instead of having the display,

like, you know, let's say...

Yeah, it's pushed forward.

It's pushed back.

And the reason for that that I was given

was because a lot of older people buy Toyota's.

I'm not speaking out of term.

This is true.

And Han does.

So the reason I was told,

and if you know anything other than this,

you can let me know,

is because as you get older,

your eyes have a hard time switching focus.

So if the display is way out here

where you're looking anyway,

it's easier to see the display.

It's the same reason like those digital mirrors

aren't very popular because you gotta switch focus

from like in front of you to, you know, up close.

And so that's why they did it.

But I just found it really weird to have that dashboard.

Like it's probably like a good, what,

foot and a half way out there.

That didn't bug me.

It's just hitting my head was difficult.

Yeah, but you're tall.

Everybody will have the problem I'm talking about.

Only the tall folk are gonna have the...

Oh, Matt has joined us on Patreon.

Hello, Matt.

Hey, Matt, how are you doing, dude?

I'm old school, but I like still here

the details about the cars.

I like that I enjoy listening TFL podcast.

Thank you for listening, Matt.

Nearly as much as like watching you all.

Thanks for listening as well.

Yeah, thanks.

We're happy that you're on live with us.

So the other car that we have here in the studio

and I haven't driven it yet is the Audi.

And you got to drive that.

Tell me about that.

No, I did not.

So I wanted to drive it.

Okay.

Our producer, Cole drove it yesterday

because we didn't...

Is your mic working, Cole?

Because we did an eye gauntlet.

Okay.

He was chasing me around in this Audi.

It's an Audi SQ5.

I'm gonna put you on the spot, Cole.

You get to be a reviewer for...

Give me like a three sentence review of the Audi.

Did you like it?

I liked it a lot.

It was really quick.

It sounded good.

And it was really easy to keep up with the...

That's very good.

So you should put it on camera.

But Cole, did you think...

He said don't.

Did it feel traditional to you?

I mean, you drive a RAV4, V6.

Was the Audi...

Well, maybe I'm putting words in his mouth.

Yes.

Was it...

Did you like it?

Or was it like a Tesla?

Was it on the spectrum of RAV4 to Tesla?

Where was this Audi?

More RAV4, for sure.

Well, so...

Yeah, I kind of got what you were saying.

I mean, it feels like a car.

Yeah.

Like it has a regular steering wheel, right?

No.

Is it a squircle?

Yeah.

Audi's doing the squircles.

But it is a twin-turbo, right?

Yeah.

So it makes all the right noises that you're used to from before.

It's a twin-turbo V6,

and it's got a normal shifter, right?

Normal-ish?

No.

That's true.

No, it's like the little one that you kind of push it forward

and push it back.

Oh, I hate a little tiny shifter.

Yeah.

And that way, no, it's not traditional.

So the powertrain is traditional, but everything else is...

But everything else is changing.

How many screens?

A bunch of screens.

100 screens.

And the screens.

There's passenger, the middle, and then the gauges.

But we're going to review it tomorrow.

Yeah, we're going to do this just in on it tomorrow.

But the reason I bring that up before we get to all these lists

is because you, and we can talk about this,

took our long-term...

Thank you, Honda.

They lent us a Passport Trailsport

for a long-term review.

I think we got it for like three months.

Yes.

Thank you, Alvin.

I appreciate that.

And we did a lot with it.

We compared it to a Bronco.

If you haven't watched that video,

go to allTFL, all the time, allTFL.com.

It's basically a Bronco versus Passport off-road,

which is interesting.

In the snow storm.

Yes, but you, my man, you got to hike it.

You actually hiked it.

So a tow is 5,000.

Yeah, it's rated a tow of 5,000 pounds.

And you towed a Honda with it.

Yes, I towed a Honda with a Honda.

So we had a Honda Talon, right,

which is not a long-term loan that we've had at the ranch.

Which is a side-by-side.

Side-by-side off-road vehicle.

We also have an aluminum trailer.

And so we thought it was a great combination, right?

You could put the side-by-side on the trailer.

And the whole setup weighed about 4,000 pounds.

So it's well, pretty much within, you know, 5,000 pounds.

I wish we could have pushed it further, you know,

closer to 5,000, but we kind of didn't.

But I was still a little bit nervous

because the Honda Passport has a naturally aspirated

non-turbo V6.

And we're going to 11,000 feet of elevation.

And I was worried that it's going to lose power.

It's going to be slow.

We have found that crossovers slash SUVs,

unless they're like the big boys that are truck-based.

They're struggled.

They struggle, yeah.

They're not great at towing.

And also I was worried about downhill portion, right?

Because you have to slow down this extra 4,000 pounds.

You know what I thought just occurred to me, Andre?

I don't think anybody else towed with these things but us.

I can't think of any other publication

that they actually towed with like a Passport.

So you saw it first and you saw it only on TFL.

Yeah, let us know if your favorite magazine

tows with a Passport.

Yeah, who's towed with a Passport?

OK.

Yeah, it's cool.

So how did it do?

Spill the beans.

You can watch the video.

It'll be up on.

Yeah, it's already up.

The video's already up.

So recording this Thursday, Friday, it'll be published.

Yes, we're in the future, I mean in the past.

And it surprised me.

It was really good.

So normally on the way down, right,

we're counting brake applications

because we don't want to have too many.

We don't want to overheat the brakes.

It did four brake applications, which is really good.

I mean, some pickup trucks.

Some trucks do like 12.

12 or 10.

So it was really good.

It has a tow mode, so a special towing mode.

But the only negative really about this Passport

is that it doesn't have a brake controller,

a built-in trailer brake controller.

So we had to use another solution

in which we have a remote one.

And then on the way up, I want to say I used full throttle

maybe a couple of different times,

but I had basically good power all the way up the mountain.

What kind of fuel economy?

Not bad, because 6 MPG on our climb between,

it's an eight mile stretch, right,

from, and you gain about 2,000 feet of elevation

in this eight miles, and 6.7.

Yeah, if you want to be the baller at the trail head

when you show up with a Talon being towed by a Passport,

a trail Sport, you're going to be the...

And then you take off the Talon,

and then you go on hook to the Passport,

and then together go on the trail.

Yeah, you could both go off road.

That's a baller move.

I like that vehicle.

They've done a really good job.

Apparently, they can't keep them on the lots.

You know what they can do to improve it?

That was a transition.

Think about what I just said,

and think about where I was going to go with that.

Wow, I ruined this segue.

You ruined my segue.

Because Andre, I have a list of vehicles

that they can keep on the dealer lots.

Because they never leave.

Exactly.

So before I tell you where I came from,

and what I did, I did some cool stuff recently.

Yeah, I want to hear about your drag race.

Oh yeah, I drag race some.

I'll give you a hint before I talk about it.

I drag race semi trucks.

All right, let's talk about the vehicles

that are stuck on lots.

So this is a list by IC Cars.

So these are vehicles based on iccars.com that do not sell.

Basically, they're stuck on dealer lots,

and they're very difficult for dealers to move.

Correct?

Yeah, right.

So shall we do it in TFO fashion,

where we start at the bottom of the list and go on up?

OK, so at the bottom.

Yeah, well, I have it here on the screen.

Yeah, that's OK.

Which list do you want?

What?

24, 25, 25.

Well, this is 20.

Well, there are two model years.

One is about 2025 models, and then another one with 2024s,

as well.

This is with 2025s.

OK.

So number 22 on our list is, this is interesting.

This seems wrong.

This 2025 list, these are new cars with most.

Let's go with 2024.

I think 2024 would be more insightful.

Yeah, I think so, too.

Because why would the forerunner be on that list?

It's brand new.

Yeah, that's weird.

Yeah, maybe.

I don't know.

That is weird.

But we can get to that.

We'll read those off as well.

But the more interesting ones, these to me feel right.

So we're going to go with 2024 because they

have been on the lot now for a year.

The longest.

Yeah.

The longest.

Number 10 is the Jeep Wrangler plug-in hybrid, the 4 by E.

So I have a guess.

Expensive.

Well, it's expensive.

Well, according to IC cars, the average price of a Wrangler

plug-in is $60,740 right there, number 10 on this list.

But also, they've had a couple of recalls recently.

There is a do not drive recall or do not park inside recall.

So I think that's a tough one.

I'm kind of bummed because a Jeep Wrangler,

especially with that plug-in, drives pretty well.

You could also be effortless EV off-roading

in a quiet manner.

So that's a bummer.

The next one is also kind of a head scratcher.

Number nine is the Nissan Z. And remember, we're moving up

to the one with the most on the lot.

And Nissan just recently announced

that they're going to sell these only as bespoke.

In other words, you're going to have to order them if you want one.

They're not going to have them on the lots.

And I talked to some automotive journalists about this

because I love the Z. I'm a Z guy.

I've owned three of them.

And the consensus is that Nissan just

didn't do enough to make it worth buying.

Basically, the currency has the guts of the 370 underneath it.

So the switch gear, the powertrain, it's all the old car.

So they kind of gave it a new design,

but they didn't actually do anything.

I am a little puzzled, though, because they gave it

a nice engine, 400 horsepower.

Twin-turbo V6.

They gave it, there is a manual option, isn't there?

There is a manual option.

It's not a great manual, but it's a manual.

In a world where no manuals exist, hell yeah.

Maybe it's too expensive.

Maybe that's why.

Because at $53,000 for a Z, I could buy a nice Mustang V8.

Maybe that's the problem.

And Mustang isn't selling that great either.

Oh, shoot.

Yeah, Mustang's not on this list, but it's also not exactly

burning down the house.

OK, what's next?

Number eight.

The Dodge Charger.

I take it that's the old one.

That's the electric one.

Is it the electric one?

Oh, is that the electric one?

I don't know.

It doesn't say.

It just says Dodge Charger.

Well, if it's electric, $59,000, the average price.

Yes, I could see this because Dodge.

Must be the electric one.

Yeah, because Dodge tried to fit a round peg in a square hole

with this car.

And it's not jiving with the people out there.

Point of this list, of course, is if you wanted to these cars,

you might be able to deal on it.

A massive deal, probably, because if these cars are still

in the lot, just waiting for an order.

Yes, you can get a deal.

Genesis GV60.

OK, curious one.

It's the smallest of their SUVs.

So it's the smallest.

If it was a 70 or an 80, I think those are pretty popular.

I think building a brand is really hard, Andre.

And I think that Genesis has not become part

of the cultural vernacular yet.

I think a lot of people, if you're not a car guy or car

gal, you don't even know what the heck a Genesis is.

I think Genesis is still at that nascent stage

of where they're trying to get people.

But Roman, we've been doing so many Genesis videos.

Why doesn't everybody know this?

Because they don't watch us.

So please, start watching.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

We're supposed to build the brand for Genesis?

That's what you're saying?

Even if we had massive numbers, I don't think we'd still.

I just don't think.

Do you think people watch Genesis?

No, they don't.

They don't.

And I say Genesis too, and you're like, OK,

I think it's like the luxury brand of Hyundai.

And then I say GV60.

And you're like, what the hell is a GV60?

Yeah, well, I actually knew enough of it.

It's the smallest one.

So I would say, first of all, get rid of the stupid ass names.

What, GV?

Yeah, I mean, go with Stinger.

That's a good name.

Genesis Stinger.

Yeah, I would buy that.

Go with real names.

Don't go with GV, TL, PC, whatever the hell you want to call it.

Just don't go with these alphanumeric or numeric

alfa combinations.

They really don't stick in people's minds.

All right, number six.

This is another head scratcher, Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Oh, with an average.

It's not a Grand Cherokee.

Oh, sorry, Jeep Grand Wagoneer.

Oh, with an average price, so this may be the reason, $92,497.

That's another one that Stalantis kind of, I was going to say,

screwed the pooch, and it's kind of cold and heartless,

but it's kind of true.

The problem with the Grand Wagoneer,

there's three problems with the Grand Wagoneer.

Number three, Andre.

Let's see if I agree.

OK, number three.

It's too expensive.

Average price, $92,000.

Yes.

Number two.

Number two, it doesn't know if it's a Jeep or a Grand Wagoneer.

Well, now it knows.

Yeah, but they didn't know before, but now it knows.

There was no Jeep name or badge.

Well, yes, because 2024s, it wasn't sure if it was a Jeep.

Yes, it didn't know what it was.

That's a problem.

Unless you looked into the hood,

you saw the Jeep little labels on the hoses.

And I would think, number one, the biggest problem

with it is it's just not very good.

I think you know what the problem is.

If you're going to go up against a Suburban in Tahoe,

you better bring it.

No, no, I think I know the problem.

It's not bad, but it's not great.

It started out with a big giant honking V8.

And then for 2024, 2025, it went to a straight six

hurricane twin turbo, which is a great engine.

But it doesn't have that cachet, right?

It doesn't have the V8.

I've made it.

I'm paying $100,000, and I'm buying a quiet engine.

Oldest nameplate.

Oldest nameplate in the automotive world in America

is Suburban, it's been around the longest.

So if you're going to go up against the grand daddy

of all of these three rows, and then

you're going to go up against a Tahoe,

and you're going to go up against the Yukon,

you better bring your A game.

And what they did was they brought a boat ton of technology.

They brought screens.

They brought expense.

They brought maybe too much luxury.

I think the reason the Suburban is so successful,

as well as the Tahoe, is they're not escalades.

And they actually created an escalade

in terms of pricing, right?

Because remember the one we had at the Chicago Auto Show?

It was like $126,000.

And I just don't think that there's

a market there for a Grand Wagoneer.

And it's ironic, because you can make the argument

that the Wagoneer was the first,

if you take the Range Rover out of it,

was the first luxury SUV.

It was.

It had wood paneling.

Yeah, but then they didn't do anything for like 30 years.

I know.

So people's memories are.

They lost the brand.

They lost the brand, yes.

All right, let's keep going.

Number five.

This I could have told you is Dodge Hornet.

I don't know what to say, because it's sad.

Well, and number one is also the Dodge Hornet plug

and hybrid.

So we got both of them.

And number three is also the same.

These all have the same problem.

Number three is the Alfa Romeo tonale.

So let's say I'm a stable mate.

Let's start with the tonal.

I went to Italy to actually drive this.

And in Italy, that car was fantastic,

because first of all, tonale is a very famous pass in Italy.

So you're like, cool, man, this is named after a pass

that people like drive.

It'd be like naming it after.

Eisenhower Tunnel.

Loveland Pass.

Right, or pick, you know, nice.

Alfa Romeo, Loveland.

I would drive that.

Yes, but when you, exactly.

Yeah, Alfa Romeo, Loveland.

But when you translate it into English, it becomes tonale.

Like somebody, somebody at Alfa Romeo

didn't realize that tonale and tonale are very similar.

And then the other thing I figured out,

when I was driving this, and you could put the Hornet

and you could put the Hornet plug in,

because they're all Alfa Romeo's that have been rebranded.

The size is perfect for Italy.

You got these little tiny roads

and you've got just enough pep in the car

is fun to drive and you're tossing it around.

And you're in an Alfa Romeo, which is like, you know,

in Italy, which is a prestigious brand.

But here, Alfa Romeo doesn't have that name recognition

like it does unless you're an enthusiast.

You're not really tossing it around

because you're going down the highway.

And worst of all, it's a small car.

The size is just wrong, right?

It doesn't fit into American lifestyles.

It's too small if you're maybe as an empty nester,

but a RAF 4 is bigger than this thing.

Really is.

And I think that was the biggest fault, I think,

of the Dodge Hornet plug-in and non-plug-in

and the regular one.

It's going up against amazing vehicles

for what they are, Honda CR-V, Toyota RAF 4, right?

They're all in a similar size.

And everybody has one, Kia, Hyundai, Ford.

And it didn't bring enough.

And then also bad naming.

And I was just, you know,

complaining about not having real names.

Hornet is a great name.

But the Hornet wasn't a great car.

You didn't, like the original Hornet was an AMC.

But I don't remember this.

Look up a Hornet.

But Roman, for a younger person,

like I don't think Cole knows what the original Hornet is.

Do you call?

But there's a lot of people in that demographic

who I don't want to be like, you know,

who grew up here, right?

1974, Roman?

You left a lot.

Yes, yes, 1974.

I wasn't alive in the 1970s.

No, but you also weren't here through your high school years,

where these cars were used cars.

So when you were here, if you had been here

when you were like 10, 12, right, which you weren't,

then you would have realized that you were seeing these cars

on our roads as shitty, sorry, crappy.

I didn't mean to.

Do you have a beeper, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop,

or a beeper who were alive as crappy?

Well, look, listen to Matt's podcast.

God, she drops the F-bomb every single sentence.

If I drop one S, I apologize.

But these were like kind of crappy old cars.

And so the reputation of these things

wasn't the one you're looking at.

It was like worn out, old.

Wait a minute, Roman.

There was a 1973 AMC Hornet X Gucci edition.

Now that is the one I want.

It's like they did it twice.

They did it with a dart, right?

Yeah, I know.

It didn't work as a dart.

And this Hornet didn't work either.

It didn't work.

And they keep going back to that.

And I'm like, no, no.

If you're going to go back to a car,

it's got to be a car that has some fizz to it.

Charger, Challenger, right?

Those are good names.

Mustang, right?

Hornet, dart.

Camaro.

Swinger, let's just do a swinger next.

What is a swinger?

Look up a swinger, a dyed swinger.

Please don't tell citation.

There you go.

There's a swinger.

Wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

Celebrity, they're just bad cars.

And now they're...

They're remaking them.

Yeah, they're remaking them.

I have a friend, Ed, who loves darts,

but he's just a scientist

and he's weird about cars.

And so there is this love for these things,

but it's pretty tight.

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So there's two we forgot.

Number four is the Chevy Malibu.

It's a sedan, sedans are selling.

It's almost discontinued, yes.

And it's also fighting against the Camry

and the corn, right?

So that's a tough one.

And the one that really is kind of...

I don't understand the Grand Cherokee, dude.

That's number two, yeah.

That one I don't understand.

It used to be the best seller.

I mean, sorry.

One of the best sellers for G.

Look at the average price, 64,000.

Well, yeah, that says something about it.

That says something.

Remember the Cherokee used to be,

used to be kind of an entry-level

boxy square car that was affordable.

And then the Grand Cherokee kind of

followed up with that

and it was a little bit nicer

and a little bit more premium.

But at 64,000, you are getting into BMW territory.

It's almost too much.

Mercedes territory.

I think the Grand Cherokee

should have an average price of like 50K.

So taken down at least 10.

And then I think it would sell.

And by the way, I think Stalantis

is fixing a lot of these problems.

So the charger now has a gasoline engine, right?

The straight six hurricane.

The Grand Cherokee now has another engine for 2026

and it's more affordable.

The Malibu is gone.

So they discontinued the Malibu.

The Hornet.

I'm not sure what they're doing with the Hornet.

And the Grand Wagoneer,

Colin and I were just in Detroit what a month ago.

They put the Jeep logo back on it

and it's a pure Jeep now.

And they are rebranding it.

So these 10 cars with the most leftover 2025,

I think there's something wrong with this list

because these are the hottest selling cars.

So number 10 is a 400, number nine is a Maverick.

These are just very popular cars.

Number eight is a 400 Hybrid.

Number seven is the Taos.

Six Nero, five GR Corolla.

A four, a Lexus LX, 600, Subaru BRZ.

Two is three.

Number two is a GX 550.

You can't get those, dude.

They're not leftover on lots

and the number one is BMW i4,

which kind of makes sense.

That's the electric BMW.

Yeah, I'm not getting this list.

No, I don't get this list.

So we're gonna put this aside

and we're gonna not try to figure it out.

But let me tell you what I got to do.

I was just at the Proving Grounds for Toyota

outside of Phoenix, Arizona.

It's in the middle of nowhere on purpose.

And I got an entire tour of the Proving Ground,

but they did roll out.

I'm jealous.

They did roll out, you should be jealous

because we got the drag race

or we got the, I couldn't get the drag race.

I would say if you were there,

you would have demanded to drive it.

And rightfully so.

So they had two semis hauling 80,000 pounds

one was hydrogen powered

and one was the traditional diesel.

One was a Kennellworth, one was a Peterbilt.

Because Toyota makes the powertrain.

Yeah, yeah.

Not in the...

They fuel cell powertrain.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And they put them in a line

and they drag race them to show the difference between...

Don't tell me who won, cause I don't know.

I'm not gonna show you.

I'm not gonna tell you.

But I got to sit in both

because they didn't let me drive it.

Even though I guess I could have

because it's out of Proving Ground.

But I don't think they wanted

to let journalists lose behind, you know.

Cause it would have opened the floodgates, Roman.

Well, floodgates.

The drag race was easy,

but then the stopping was not so easy.

Was this a quarter mile or was this a short distance?

It was short.

Yeah, we didn't go quite a quarter mile.

But yeah, you could feel the weight pushing on you.

80,000 pounds is a lot and you can feel it.

So I got to do that.

That's cool.

That's videos coming out just in a couple of days, right?

Yep.

And then they get this.

They had all three of their off-road Tacomas

back to back to back.

So the TRD off-road, TRD Pro and Trailhunter.

I got to drive them back to back off-road.

That was cool.

What did you drive them like on the off-road?

On the off-road course.

Yeah, they have, obviously they have like hills set up.

They have kind of like, kind of like your pit in a ranch

except much bigger.

Thank you.

I think they have like 12,000 acres.

We have 22.

We don't have the budget that Toyota has.

You know, they had, when they first built this,

Proving Ground, get this, 1993,

they had a 10 mile oval.

10 mile oval, yeah.

Dude, can you imagine going high?

Top speed on a 10 mile oval.

10 mile oval.

Now it's kind of broke.

Over the years, it was, you know,

it got, the pavement got bad.

But imagine a 10 mile oval.

Imagine like if you're like one of the,

Akio Toyota's father actually was there

for the groundbreaking.

Imagine when he got the bill for that.

By the way, like, you know, like you'll,

you'll ask.

Was this in the 80s, you said?

93.

Yeah.

Well, the land should have been cheaper back then.

No, the bill, the bill.

Well, yeah, I know.

Yes.

You have to build 10 miles of pavement.

Yeah.

So I got to do that.

And then they had, this was cool.

And you were kind of scratching your head about this,

but it actually is pretty cool.

They had a hydrogen powered Tacoma and Tundra.

Well, when you said this,

I saw the SEMA truck, the Tacoma H2, right?

That was a, basically a Mirai fuel cell drive units

stuffed inside a pickup truck,

which I thought was a pretty clever.

But then you said there was a Tundra,

but it was hauling a fuel cell inside of it.

They had a fuel cell and they were using it,

so they set up a tent and then they set up like bathrooms

and speaker systems.

And it was, and they were charging two EVs.

They were charging the, they had a Woodland EV actually.

Oh yeah.

Oh, okay.

The new one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The BZ Woodland.

Yes.

They were charging that and they were all charging it

off the fuel cell.

And while we were there,

it generated, get this, two gallons of water.

Because when you use a fuel cell.

The byproduct is water.

The byproduct is water vapor.

Did you still drink the water?

I asked them that and they were like,

they probably shouldn't.

I did.

It's pure.

When we had the next, so I drank it.

Yeah, it doesn't have any minerals or anything.

It has, yeah, it has no.

Just, just H2O.

No electrolytes.

Yeah, just H2O.

Yeah, and it's not healthy

because it's kind of taste metallic.

So you can drink it, but it's not grand.

I have an idea that I passed along to them.

I'm sure they'll not listen to me,

but I thought if they had a Mariah,

you should, you know, I have a water bottle.

They should have a water bottle holder

and then they should have like a little spout

where they purify the water.

From the exhaust.

From the exhaust, right?

And then purify it, add electrolytes

and it goes right, when that be cool,

it goes right into your water bottle.

Like it goes to McStanley's.

Yes, and it makes a little bit of coffee for you as well.

No, it just makes clear water.

You just wash the water going as you're driving.

How cool would that be?

Yeah, that would be awesome.

Yeah.

And then the coolest one of all,

this was bad ass dude.

So we're sitting there and you saw this.

You saw us at SEMA, right?

Oh, yes.

So we're sitting there and they go,

we got something special for you.

And off of their off-road course,

they have a bunch of off-road course,

this side-by-side comes peeling out,

kind of going sideways, full lock

and then comes right at us.

So Toyota built a, get this,

a Tacoma-powered side-by-side.

A 2.4 liter hybrid Tacoma-powered side-by-side.

Yes.

And keep in mind that the Tacoma

is about a thousand pounds heavier than the side-by-side.

So over 300 horsepower.

In this smaller, more lightweight package.

Yeah, a thousand pounds less than the Tacoma.

But as a side-by-side goes, Roman,

this is not lightweight, right?

If you compare it to like a Polaris or a Can-Am.

I wanna say it's like 3,500 pounds,

either 3,000 or 3,500.

Yeah, that's a pretty heavy side-by-side,

but it's impressive looking.

Well, first of all, it's crazy.

It's the first side-by-side that I know of

that can run on only electricity

because it's a hybrid.

So they said it has like five miles of all electric.

That's cool.

So if you're like hunting, right?

Even though this is a sports one,

this probably isn't, this isn't the utility one.

They could build a hunter.

But they couldn't build one.

Well, let's say you're hunting,

you could sneak up on the game in stealth mode

because you could drive it in all electric.

Or let's say you're a Moab and people in Moab are,

in Moab you have this weird thing

where you have two speed limits.

You have a speed limit for cars,

which is 35 in town,

and then you have it for side-by-side, which is 25.

You know why that is?

Because they don't have seat belts.

No, they do have seat belts.

No, they have seat belts.

They have turns in this.

Headlights.

No.

Why?

What?

No.

Is it sound pollution?

It is, yeah.

Is it sound-related?

Yeah, because side-by-sides are really loud and kind of farty.

And the reason that they don't want them going 35

is that they're too loud and too annoying,

so they make them go 25.

Which is painful in the high-performance machine.

But here?

But here, all electric?

I mean, a hybrid, not all electric.

Right, but yeah.

But electric mode.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, so you could just, you know,

26 inches of suspension travel.

Yeah, that's huge.

Yeah.

So do you think they're gonna go through this?

Well, they're gonna sell them.

The interesting part, do you remember Scion?

Yes, I remember cheap, affordable, small cars.

Yeah, so they retired that brand, of course.

Yes.

And now, the name of the side-by-side

is the Scion 01 concept.

So they're bringing it back for the side-by-side.

And the other crazy thing is,

are they gonna sell it to the Lexus dealership?

Yeah, the Lexus or Toyota dealer.

The other crazy thing about it is,

I think it's one of the few side-by-sides

that actually has a traditional eight-speed automatic.

Because side-by-sides come in two flavors, right?

Yes.

Most of them are CBTs, except for Honda,

which is a dual clutch out of the motorcycle.

And so this could be one of the first side-by-sides

with a traditional automatic.

Yes, this is interesting.

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool.

And I never understood this,

so maybe you can explain this to me.

Toyota has an incredible off-road heritage

and they built a lot of really good off-roaders,

but they do nothing in power sports.

So there's no motorcycles, no side-by-sides, right?

There's no Toyota power sports.

Honda, across the way.

Honda builds anything and everything.

Incredible power sports traditions.

So, you know, dirt bike, side-by-sides.

You name it.

But there's no true low-range off-roader

that they built as far as I'm aware.

But the Passport is a trail ridge.

Trail sport.

I was thinking of the ridge line.

It's as close as it gets to an off-roader.

But yeah, there's no real power sport.

It's puzzling.

But Toyota also owns many other companies, right?

I mean, like Hino, Semi,

Daihatsu, Daihatsu.

Part of the best.

But I'm surprised that Toyota

doesn't really have in their portfolio

an off-roader.

Like a power sport.

So are they gonna build it, right?

I said it's a Scion 01 concept.

It's a concept, it's a concept.

So I was talking to the engineers

and they were like, hey, that's your job, Roman.

You gotta convince the...

Wait, you have to create the Genesis brand

and now you have to create the Scion brand too?

No, no.

You have to convince the Muckity Mucks

in the Tour de City, maybe Akio himself,

that the green light this, that they should build it,

that this is something that the company should do.

And so I say to you, Akio, take my money.

But what if it's $45,000?

Yeah, so what?

Enclose it?

I mean, that's where everything's going now, right?

Give it air conditioning.

You're already there, right?

You've got the powertrain.

So make it like the expedition,

like the Polaris expedition.

And yeah, those are $50,000.

This is where we're at with side-by-sides now.

We are at $50,000.

So I think it's smart.

I think Jeep should also be thinking of this.

So Polaris is definitely eating into Jeep's world,

especially from the off-road side.

Why not go the other way?

In other words, why not have Toyota

and also eating into Toyota's world?

Why not have Toyota, take on Polaris

and all the other Yamaha, all the other power sports

and actually use some of their engineers

to build these things?

You know who else could be convinced of this?

Who?

Jim Farley.

Because he's participating for the second time in a row

in the Dakar Rally with a custom built,

they call them Raptor T1s, right?

And they could also build a side-by-side.

I mean, they have the heritage.

They have the off-road racing.

They could also come in here, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah.

So I also talked with some of the journalists

about the new Mustang GTD, right?

The $400,000.

Yes.

So this is a segue into our list of bull.

Wow, Roman, you have really good segues.

I have a segue, yeah.

You have really good segues.

The consensus by many people was

that unlike the previous four GT, the first gen, right?

The second, the two GTs, right?

So you had the first gen, which was built by Ford, V8.

You're not talking about the GT40.

No, I'm talking about the first.

You're talking about the 2000s GT.

Yeah, the one that is the older of the two.

The V8 one that everybody wants.

Yeah, the V8 one that's manual.

I want one, by the way.

That's manual, not the EcoBoost one.

No.

So what's happening with those two prices

is initially, of course, the new one, the EcoBoost, right?

The swoopy, sporty looking one.

Can you look those up?

Look up for GT so that people see the difference

between the two of them.

The prices are crossing.

Really?

Yeah, so the first generation GT.

Well, the blue one on the bottom, which one?

That's the second generation, yeah.

Scroll down.

That one.

Yeah, you got both of them there, yeah.

The red one is the first generation.

And then the blue one is the second generation.

So the prices are crisscrossing.

The first generation, this one that we're looking at

is in the Gulf livery.

Hold on, hold on.

There's too much happening here.

Yeah, there's way too much.

What is happening?

There's like, I don't know.

Well, this is the designer I interviewed him.

This is the designer of the first one.

There it is.

Bam.

So that one.

Smack.

That one, the prices are going up.

I want one so bad.

Exactly, there it is.

Yes.

And the prices on the second one are going down, the new one.

About time.

About, so they're crisscrossing.

And the thinking is that the new one, the Mustang GTD,

is not going to have, because both of these went up in value.

But the thinking is that if you're

thinking about getting a GTD, that it

is not going to increase in value, that it's

going to actually decrease in value.

Because it's already $350,000 to $400,000, right?

Yeah, they start, yeah, and the reason for that

is because it's fairly built it as a Porsche GT3 RS

competitor.

But it's extremely heavy, and it's got the footprint.

It's very big.

It's a large car.

It's like, I think it's 4,500 pounds.

I could be wrong.

I think you're close.

Yeah, you're there.

It's very heavy, and it's very big.

And this is everything.

It says 4,343, so almost 4,400 pounds.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's built by, basically, Multimatic.

Yes, but the EcoBoost GT, the second gen GT,

was also largely built by Multimatic.

But it's different, because this one, the GTD,

Ford gives them the body, and then they kind of widen it

and they stretch it.

Whereas the second generation GT,

they want the EcoBoost engine, that was a complete.

Multimatic.

Yeah, well, it was four.

Well, unique body.

Right, but it was unique.

It was unique.

They didn't take it as existing.

It was bespoke.

Yeah, they didn't take an existing Mustang

and basically convert it.

And the first GT, as well, it was completely bespoke,

and that was, I think, built by Ford.

Whereas this is basically a customized version of a Mustang

with the big Mustang GT 500 engine.

So it doesn't necessarily have a unique engine.

It doesn't have a unique body.

The only unique thing about it is kind of the way

the suspension works.

But when you combine all that and they're going to build,

I don't know how many they're going to build.

I should know what they're going to build.

I don't know if we know.

I don't know if we know, but it's not limited, I don't think.

And you combine all that.

And the thinking is it's probably not

going to go up in value.

So maybe the first year, but at the end of the year,

it's probably going to go down.

You heard it here first, folks.

If you want a GTD, just wait.

I'm going to be waiting.

So yeah, so wait, be the second buyer.

Yes, not the first one.

And it could be wrong.

Anyway, that's my segue.

Well, that's your segue to the Hagerty's bull market

list.

Yeah, so every year Hagerty does this.

They pick cars that they think are going to appreciate.

And the way they do that, of course,

is Hagerty ensures a lot of classic cars.

And so they can watch to see what cars people are buying,

how much the value is.

Because the way Hagerty works, unlike any other insurance

companies, when you buy a classic car,

you say, hey, this thing is worth $35,000, let's say.

And then if it gets stolen or if it gets wrecked,

they'll pay you $35,000.

But they don't go in that like a regular insurance

company, like your truck.

So you have a Tundra TRD Pro previous gen.

If you were to crash that, then the insurance company

would say, this is how much we're paying you.

And you'd be like, oh, no, no, no, no, it's worth a lot more

because they wouldn't take into account

that it has a snorkel unless that cool blue.

They would just probably find a comparable somewhere.

Yeah, to another pro.

But not the really cool one.

And then you'd be in an argument with them.

Well, Hagerty is a little bit more enthusiast-based.

Yeah, yeah.

With Hagerty, you say, hey, I paid $35,000 for this,

whatever you paid for it.

But they also, I tried to insure with Hagerty

my bread loaf, my Buhanka Russian van.

And they didn't.

And well, we-

There's no category for it.

So we argued a little bit.

But did you get a jeer?

Yes.

Oh, that's great.

Yeah, it's all good.

Yeah, how much did you get a jeer?

This is not brought to you by Hagerty, by the way.

No, no, none of this is true.

They don't pay us.

They come back to compete with us.

They compete with us heavily.

And also, IC cars doesn't pay us.

No, nobody pays us.

Except for you who watch us.

Except for patrons.

You guys pay us, so thank you.

We really appreciate that.

All right, so, dude, when I started at TFL,

when I first met you in 2011,

my first shtick was I was writing a column on the website

called Modern Collectibles.

I really wanted to predict

what was gonna be valuable and collectible.

That's your scientist, that's your, you know-

That's my mathematical mind.

That's my mathematical scientist coming through, yeah.

So was I right or was I wrong?

Let's find out.

All right, so 2006 to 2013 Chevy Corvette Z06, $55,000.

Yes, so this is the C6 and the Z06,

this is a large motor car.

This is a seven liter giant V8.

I drove one around the block once.

I'm gonna give you a car at the end of this list

that I think is gonna appreciate.

Besides-

No, but that could be on board with this one.

Are you on board with this one?

Corvettes are hard.

They appreciate, like the C1 of course appreciated,

the C2, C3s are worthless right now.

Unfortunately, we own one,

or I shouldn't say worthless,

but they're not, the Malays' era Corvettes aren't doing

well and an issue always with Corvettes

is they built as many as they could sell.

And that's hard.

It's in every man's and gal's, every gal's super car.

All I know is we had a C6 and I didn't like it.

Huh, I did not like our C6.

So I'll tell you that.

Personally, I thought the car just was lacking

some of the charm and some of the quirkiness

of the earlier ones.

And there were a lot of problems with the earlier ones

because we had a C5 as well.

We currently have a C3.

Case had a C4, right?

Yes.

But I just found the C6 to be a little kind of,

kind of, I like the Grand Sport.

If it were me,

I would get the Grand Sport version of this

because we had it, this was young enough

that we had it as a review car.

And I really enjoyed the Grand Sport.

I've never driven the C6, the Z06 version of it,

but the one that we had, I wasn't in love with.

I think this Z06 C6, sixth generation,

I think you would buy it for the engine.

Well, the problem with the C6 is the C7.

It really, the C7 just got-

Took it to the next level.

It just became much nicer interior.

It had that seven speed,

which I think was a little bit better.

And so I might be tempted to just go for the C7

because the 55,000, you won't get a Z06 C7,

but you will get,

you could probably get a Grand Sport C7.

And I might be tempted to go for that.

It's just a much nicer car in my opinion.

Much more refined, much better put together,

much nicer interior.

So, all right, let's keep going.

Let's move on.

That's kind of where I'm at with it.

This is our third hour we're speaking here for.

Yeah, we gotta keep going.

Yeah, are we over an hour yet, Cole?

Oh, gee, okay.

Oh my God.

All right, 2006 to 2010 BMW M5.

It's because we're having fun, Roman.

We're having fun, yeah, 36,000.

So, my wife's cousin, Mike,

you've met him, Mike, the transporter,

he owned one of these cars several years back

and he really thought it was a hoot.

I haven't experienced this V10 powered M5,

but I'm kind of lusting after one.

I am lusting after one big time.

My biggest question is, you're gonna pay 36 for it?

How much is it gonna cost you

to reliably maintain that thing?

That scares me.

Whoa, it's gonna be expensive.

That scares me.

Yeah, you're gonna have to budget

another 10K per year for repairs.

I don't think that's being,

I don't think I'm exaggerating.

So, you may want it, but gosh.

You know, for the brakes.

Is it 36,000, Cole?

For 36,000, is that what Hagerty said?

I mean, for 42 grand, you bought a Viper V10.

That's the car I would get.

That's the car I would get for that money.

I think the Viper is undervalued.

Yes, and this might be overvalued.

Yeah, especially the first gen.

If you really want, because analog is in right now,

everybody wants just, it's all about the experience,

it's all about, you know, the sound.

Control and all that stuff.

And shifting, get yourself a manual first gen Viper.

They're $40,000 to $50,000.

And they are reliable because they're dodges.

That engine is not fancy, it's just a push rod V10.

It will, nothing breaks on that car

unless you roll it into a tree, which is possible.

But yeah, I'd go for the Viper, I'll do that.

Let's keep going.

All right, keep going.

Yeah, I know we gotta grab some.

What's next?

Oh my God.

Yeah, this is a Doug car.

I don't, this is above our pay grade,

so it supports your Carrera GT 1.5 million.

I have nothing clever to say about this

because I've never even sat in one, let alone driven one,

so there's nothing I can add to this conversation.

I don't know if I ever smelled one.

So let's move on because that's not our money.

This one I can talk about.

It's this, this is the 1999 to 2005 Mazda MX-5,

Miata 16,600.

Yes, why not?

It's a lovely car.

We had an NC that we owned.

I'm kind of over Miata's.

You know what?

I don't think Miata's the answer, actually.

You know what was the problem with the recent Miata

that we had on loan from Mazda?

I wasn't fitting inside of it.

I don't fit either, and that's unique.

So I think you and I are the wrong people to ask about it.

Yeah, don't ask us,

because I look right into the top of the A-pillar.

Yes.

I felt claustrophobic in one.

Remember, this just sold at the donated car auction

for like 7,000.

Very nice one, actually.

Very nice one, yeah.

Very clean one.

We should have bought that one for 7,000.

We should have asked Hagerty before.

Before, yeah.

No, it's a good car, but it's just not for you and I.

I agree.

Absolutely agree.

All right, keep going, Cole.

Oh, wow.

Okay, so the Japanese spec Skyline GT-R.

Love this car.

Would not want to own it.

1995 from 1996 Nissan Skyline GT-R, 82,000.

Wow, that's a lot of money.

I am so over right-hand drive cars in America.

I am so over them.

We had that Mini that was right-hand drive.

Try going to a Starbucks or McDonald's

and all these things.

I know that's a very TFO way of looking at it,

but that's how I look at it.

I don't want to go unless my lovely wife

is sitting next to me

and she could talk to the drive-thru attendant there.

And I know if you're younger, this is just a me thing.

You're probably not going to be bothered by it.

It's cool, but I do not like right-hand drive.

It's just, they're just inconvenient.

It's just an odd driving experience, just really odd.

And you get used to shifting with your left hand,

which is great.

It's not that much harder than shifting with your right hand.

But why, it's like going to a fight

with one hand tied behind your back.

I don't want to do that.

All right, let's move on.

Let's keep going.

Ooh.

No, you're in Volkswagen, dude.

So this is all on you.

Tell me, is the 1995 through 98 Volkswagen Golf GT-R,

VR6 for $20,000.

Is that the one they get?

Because you had this generation, didn't you?

No, I had the Ford.

You had the Ford.

But we're looking at this in the MK3, so the third gen.

GTI.

VR6 is a great engine.

So it's a narrow angle V6, right?

So quiet, unique engine.

This one made 172 horsepower.

We have two of them.

Oh.

In the Bentley.

Yes, they put two of those engines in one engine

and the Roman bought it.

And created the W12.

Yes, that's beautiful.

Get two.

Why buy one?

And the Bentley was only 35, so if you

bought two of these cars, it would be 40.

Yes.

So this is actually not my favorite generation of Golf.

No, I mean, I don't like the look of them.

They're kind of doggy.

So I love the second gen, the brown headlights.

Yes, yes.

The MK2s are amazing.

And I also love the MK4 because it was kind of like.

I'm with you.

I don't like this one.

Yeah, Hagerty, I think you're wrong.

I don't know.

Even in yellow, it looks boring.

It just looks boring.

For this much money, you can get a Corado,

which I would get all day long.

Or you can get a Scorpio.

Scorpio?

No, what was it?

Chiraco?

Chiraco, sorry.

Chiraco, yeah.

Sorry.

Or you could get a Scorpion.

That's a whole different car.

That's a Cosworth.

You could get that for it.

Yeah.

You could.

Yeah, there's a lot of.

I guess it depends.

If you grew up with one of these,

it might tug on your strings.

But I did not grow up with this one.

So it's not.

We're going to go pass on that one.

Pass.

Oh, here we go.

This is more of TFL.

So 1990 through 1993, Chevy Silverado.

Basically, this is like a K or a C1500 Silverado truck.

454 SS.

But Roman, do you see the price?

Yeah, $59,000 for a racoon truck.

Roman, I had no idea these trucks are this expensive.

Wait a minute.

So a 454 SS is $60,000?

Yeah, it's like a Typhoon.

Cole?

Roman, I could have bought.

Typhoon was a pickup, right?

Yeah, I know.

But we could have bought like four of these 10 years ago

for that much money.

Maybe, you know, maybe people on two-door sports trucks.

Maybe they do.

Maybe they're coming back.

I'm shocked.

Maybe fords on to something with the Lobo, right,

with the little Maverick.

Yeah, I'm shocked.

I'm shocked.

It's a fun vehicle.

But it's still an old Chevy.

And it's also a rear-wheel drive, which in Colorado.

It's not four-wheel drive.

Yeah, I like the wheels, though.

They're cool.

And I like the color.

I don't like the racoon look on it.

So is it the pass?

No, I think it's a go for it.

But the price seems high.

You know, the interior is going to be lower.

It just is.

All right, keep going, Cole.

Oh.

Yeah, this one.

I could go for this.

For a 25, I'd go for it.

This is cool.

I would definitely own it.

We're looking at a 1981-93 Dart Ram charger, $25,000.

That is a cool car.

And it's probably the last one that went up, right?

Because the Tahos, the two-door Tahos went through the roof.

The Broncos.

The two-door Broncos.

O.J. Simpson Broncos.

So this could be the most affordable way

into that big American SUV.

Two-door Type SUV.

Yeah, and I love the Ram on the hood.

Is it a Ram?

It's a Ram, right?

Yes, yes.

It's so cool.

All the way, thumbs up, especially even at $25,000.

Take my money.

Yeah, I love that red and white combination that they have.

Oh, hell, yeah.

I think the problem with these,

the reason they're the last to go up.

You know it's another one like that.

So when I was young, you know, the hot car was the Supra 4th gen,

right, along with the Turbo, along with the RX7,

but along with the Mitsubishi VR, and the 300ZX, which I know.

The VR4s, yes.

But the 300ZX has not come up, but finally they're starting

to come up.

But the Supras went first, the Mazdas went.

I think the Mitsubishi's haven't gone yet.

Those are all competitors.

And the reason for, I think this one haven't gone,

the quality on these is probably pretty abysmal.

And also, I don't know, maybe not a lot of them were built.

But they were making more valuable.

Yeah, potentially.

Yeah, but you know what, what if they brought this name back?

Remember how they had the RAM charger named for the...

That's a free one for you, Nick.

Bring it back.

Yeah, they're bringing back this.

That's what I'm guessing.

Yes, Nick, it's a free one.

You just figured it out, Andre.

What?

Get rid of the Grand Wagoneer.

And bring back the RAM charger.

No, just rename it.

Oh, rename it as the RAM charger.

Sorry, my neck, I just had a pain in my neck.

Sell it as a RAM.

No, that's actually not a bad idea.

Yes, yes.

It doesn't belong with Jeep, no one's buying it.

Bring it back in.

Lower the price of the Grand Cherokee.

Wagoneer.

And then lower the price of this

and call it a RAM charger and sell it as a RAM.

Done.

There you go, Nick.

It's all yours, man.

Tim Kuniscus, there you go.

Don't know anything about the Alfa Romeo GTV,

except that it's beautiful.

It's sexy as heck.

Oh my gosh, it's a 1969 through 1972 Alfa Romeo GTV.

Yeah.

Can't say anything smart about it.

I would love one, it's beautiful.

It's probably amazing to drive.

But if it were my money, I'd buy Corvette.

Ha ha ha ha.

Another one?

Yes.

I would get that old Z06 over this.

All right, we don't know enough about this one.

Oh, there we go.

The original charger.

This is Nathan.

Yeah, where's Nathan?

Yeah.

1968 through 1970 Dodge Charger at about $91,000 or so.

Wow.

So this was like one generation ahead of me,

the guys who love these.

And I think that what you're seeing

is the Fast and Furious, right?

Because this is what's his name's car.

Yeah, it's Toretto's car, basically.

Toretto's car, right?

And I think that's what's bringing

the price of these things up.

Yes.

Because that black one in Fast and Furious

is so iconic, and it is an iconic design.

I mean, it's just absolutely gorgeous.

And yeah, once again, it's a great car in a straight line.

But it's also before my time, too.

Yeah, but these cars were like,

they're great cars in a straight line.

Just don't hit a curve.

Yeah, you don't want to turn.

You don't want to turn.

And then, of course, the older generation

that's into these things are restomating them.

And now they're even worth more

because they want car play

and they don't want the AMF from radio anymore.

And different suspension and all that stuff.

They want Spotify and they want to be able to,

call their doctor just by going,

hey, call Dr. Pete as opposed to have a good dial-up.

All right, keep going.

Are we at the end of this thing yet?

Oh, another one.

We're getting there.

Wow, this has been beyond my years.

No, no, no, no.

56, 57, continental mark two.

Yeah, I don't know enough about this.

It looks like a startled car.

I don't like startled cars.

No.

Right, the expression is like the teeth are out

and the eyes are open.

Yeah, this Lincoln is not for us.

No, I would get a mark.

I would get a mark four.

I would get a mark five,

which I own my dad had a mark five.

That's my generation.

I guess this one is a two-door

so that's why it's going up in value.

It looks, yeah.

Yeah, because the two-door, of course.

Could be a removable top too.

Could be.

I'm not a big white wall kind of guy

and I'm not a big chrome kind of guy.

It's got a lot of that.

I love the color that they picked,

which is just like light blue,

but yeah, no, no, no, no.

Okay, let's keep going.

That's it?

Oh, we're there.

We're there.

It's kind of all these cars.

If I gave you one to pick,

which would you buy?

And then we'll wrap it up.

Let's review really quick

and let's look if we have any more comments on Patreon.

Oh, it's just easy.

Ram Charger all day long.

Oh, especially for 25K.

I'm there, I'm buying one.

Give me one.

If you got one to...

Oh, if you got, give me money.

A Carrera GT for 1.5.

No, no, no.

All right.

I'm not giving you money.

It's your, you, this is real.

This is your money.

You get to buy one, which you have to convince your wife.

You don't want to mortgage your house.

Which would you buy?

Ram Charger all day long.

That's the answer, yes.

Yeah, I would buy that.

It's four by four.

It's big.

It's cool.

It's got that big RAM on the front of it.

All day long.

Ram Charger.

All day long done.

Tim Koniscus, please build one.

A new one.

Yes, a new one.

Well guys, thanks for joining Andre and myself.

I think next week, Tommy is back in town.

And Don will be very thankful.

Yes, and if you want to hear more from Andre,

what was your Talking Trucks podcast?

It was really fun.

So one of our friends, Stephen Elmer from Truck King,

was a guest on our show, GFL Talking Trucks.

And we chatted about many topics.

We chatted about behind the scenes,

filming, towing comparisons and off-road tests.

He does a lot of difficult off-roading in Canada.

They also have a property up there.

Power line.

Hydro line.

Hydro line, that's what we're talking about.

Hydro line, lots of water,

but also it's an electrical line.

Did you talk about his Tacoma transmission that he broke?

Did you guys talk about that?

Oh no, that's a sore subject.

I was wondering if you talked about that.

No, but we also talked about trends.

You know, we talked about SEMA,

going to SEMA and looking at trends, sports trucks.

If you love trucks,

this is gonna be an excellent discussion,

I'm guessing, because this is two died

in the world, truck guys going at it.

And it's gotta be fun.

I'm gonna listen to that one, Andre.

I can't wait.

You know, we're really great friends,

but we're also competitive.

Yeah, it's fun.

Did you talk about like inside?

Like a little bit.

We talked about thumbnails.

Oh yeah.

Because we talked about getting that thumbnail,

especially for an off-road video,

that's steep and deep,

but you don't wanna damage anything.

I'm saying there's a balance.

You know, how far do you go?

Do you damage something, or do you go steep and deep?

Yeah, good, good.

I'm gonna listen to that one.

I'm looking forward to it.

That publishes on Friday.

Just about now.

Yeah, right now.

Yeah, right now, tomorrow, yeah.

So, yes, yesterday.

Yesterday.

But today, yeah, today's Thursday.

So, tomorrow, for you guys, it's three days ago.

Sorry, sorry about that.

But also, you have, like you said,

you have a lot of cool Toyota stuff coming up as well.

Coming up, yeah, so stay tuned for that.

Yeah.

And also, oh, I have another,

oh, we have another video

with the Land Rover Defender 130 pickup truck.

The one that's gonna be really interesting,

and you should definitely watch,

is we are doing our Truck of the Year testing,

and our premiere video will publish.

Drag Race, right now.

Right now, this is out already,

and you drag Race to four full-size,

halftone, full-size.

Yeah, so if you wanna find out,

which is the quickest halftone or full-size truck,

head on over to tfltruckforalltfl.com.

And it's also important,

because this is the last video in the series,

and then, which, after this video,

we picked the winner.

You picked the winner, so you gotta watch this.

We'll name the TFL Truck of the Year.

All right, guys, as always, thank you for watching.

Head over to altff.com for more news, views,

and what, Andre?

Real world reviews.

We'll see you next time.

Ciao.

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Ep. 315: New Car Bargains. Classic Cars Going up in Value. Lexus Is Selling A Toyota?

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