When you’re behind another car, the air around your car can get messed up, and you may have to deal with other cars too. That can change how well the tires stick and how you time your pass.
Pattern changes are small adjustments to how you drive—like where you brake and how you take a corner. Racers do it because the car and tires change over time.
A GT3 car is a type of race car used in GT racing series. It’s built to a common rulebook, and it often has racing electronics like traction control and ABS.
Here “options” means settings the driver can choose, like how much the car’s traction control helps. Even if you have them, it can be hard to change them while you’re fighting for position.
A driver aid is a system that helps you drive, like traction or stability features. The idea here is that it can make driving less about the driver’s own inputs.
Concept
Indy cars doing a great job and in the direction they're going on the rules the arrow package
The “arrow package” is an IndyCar set of rules that controls the car’s aerodynamic setup. It affects how much grip the car has from the air, and that changes how the car drives.
Downforce is the “air pressure” effect that presses the car onto the road. More downforce usually means better grip, especially in corners.
Concept
difference between driving and guiding
The speaker is basically saying there’s a difference between fully driving the car yourself and just steering it while other things do the work. They prefer the car to respond to the driver’s skill.
IMSA is a big kind of professional sports-car racing in North America. Races often involve teams, driver radio, and cars competing in different groups at the same time.
A spotter is someone on the team who watches the track and tells the driver what’s happening around them. It helps the driver stay safe and avoid getting surprised by other cars.
In racing, a “yellow” means there’s a caution on the track. Cars slow down and teams may change what they’re doing because the race is temporarily controlled.
Sprint buggies are lightweight, off-road race cars built for short, high-intensity events. They’re often run on dirt tracks with jumps and bumps, where suspension travel and traction matter more than top speed.
“Dirt road courses” describes racing surfaces that are loose and change grip as cars pass. That affects tire behavior, braking points, and how the suspension absorbs ruts and bumps.
Concept
motorcycle TT track
A “TT” track in this context refers to a motorcycle-style course layout that includes sections designed for high-speed flow and jumps. The driver describes how the buggy course reused that layout, then added logs and extra bumps to change the challenge.
Ascot Park is a specific racing venue mentioned in the conversation as the place where they ran sprint buggies. The hosts use it to anchor the driver’s early racing background and track layout.
“Travel” here means suspension travel: how much the suspension can move up and down. More travel helps a race car absorb big bumps and landings without bottoming out, which is critical on jump-heavy dirt courses.
A “desert truck” is a type of off-road race truck associated with long-travel suspension and high-speed desert running. The speaker uses it as a comparison point for how much suspension travel they wanted for their buggy setup.
Concept
cross between a sprint car
A sprint car is a lightweight dirt-track race car known for quick acceleration and a setup tuned for traction on short ovals. Saying the buggy was a “cross between” suggests it borrowed sprint-car traits while also taking on off-road jump characteristics.
Pre-running means checking the race course ahead of time. It helps the driver learn the terrain and avoid surprises during the actual race.
Concept
jump at like full speed
Hitting a jump at full speed is a high-risk off-road driving scenario that stresses suspension travel, tire grip, and vehicle stability on landing. It’s the kind of situation where setup (damping and ride height) and driver control matter as much as raw power.
“Formula V” is a named racing category with rules about what kinds of cars can compete. It’s the kind of series drivers move into as their careers progress.
“Baja” is shorthand for famous desert off-road racing in Baja California. It’s the kind of racing where cars drive long distances over rough sand and dirt.
Concept
super V
“Super V” sounds like a higher-level version of a racing category. It usually means the cars and rules are a step up from the basic version.
“Runoffs” are basically the big end-of-season races where the top drivers compete to decide the final winners. Think of it like the championship-deciding event.
Pikes Peak is a famous hill/mountain race in Colorado. Drivers race up a steep mountain, so the course is tough and demanding.
Concept
Pavement license
They’re talking about getting permission to drive on paved roads. It’s basically the legal step that lets the car be used in situations that involve public roads, not just a closed race track.
They’re describing desert racing as extremely tough. Because the course is long and the ground changes, you have to constantly adjust how you drive and you usually don’t get many chances to learn the route.
They’re saying the race is so long that you effectively only get one real run through it. Since you can’t memorize everything, you have to figure out what the road is doing as you drive and adjust your speed corner by corner.
They mean you’re constantly judging what the ground is like as you approach each section. That helps you decide how fast to go and how to steer safely over uneven or changing surfaces.
That phrase means the car is moving sideways a bit while the driver keeps it under control. It’s a way to handle low grip or to set up the car for the next part of the turn.
The throttle is how much power you’re asking the engine for. Getting back on the throttle means you start giving it power again after you’ve slowed down or gone through a tricky part of the track.
SCCA stands for the Sports Car Club of America, a major U.S. motorsports organization that runs amateur and club racing events. In this context, the “SCCA guy” is involved in licensing or track/race preparation.
A black flag is a serious warning from race officials. It usually means something is wrong and you need to pull into the pits right away.
Term
slipping the sliding around
It means the tires aren’t gripping like they should, so the car starts to slide. In rain, that’s common, and the driver has to be gentler with power and steering to stay in control.
Car
Formula 5000
Formula 5000 was a type of race car used in open-wheel racing, known for big, powerful engines. The speaker is saying it was a big jump to move into that kind of car.
Term
lcca season
“LCCA season” means the regular schedule of races in that organization’s championship. The idea is you race and keep the car working all season, then use your results to qualify for the bigger Runoffs event.
They’re saying today’s race cars don’t really match that older style. The mix of light weight and huge power is what makes it hard to compare to modern cars.
F2000 is a racing class for open-wheel cars that’s generally less powerful than the Formula 5000 cars. Here, it’s used as a comparison for how the car feels to drive.
In racing, a “contract” is the agreement that says what a driver will do and what the deal terms are. The speaker is talking about how those agreements were different back then.
Concept
first Indy car race came about
They’re talking about how the earliest Indy-style race got started. It’s basically the origin story of that whole kind of American open-wheel racing.
USAC is an organization that sets the rules and gives permission for certain racing events. The speaker is saying they had to get USAC approval before they could race.
Concept
scary fast
They mean the pace was extremely quick—so quick it felt intimidating. In racing, that usually means the car was going faster than expected for that situation.
They’re talking about budgeting risk: if your car loan payment is bigger than your mortgage or rent, it can put you in a tight spot financially. It’s basically a “too much car payment” warning.
The Ferrari 308 is an older Ferrari sports car with a V8 engine in the middle of the car. People love it because it looks and drives like a true exotic, even though it’s not the most expensive Ferrari in the lineup.
The Ford Maverick is a small pickup truck made for regular daily use. It has a truck bed for carrying things, but it’s smaller and easier to drive than many other trucks. That’s why people talk about it when they want “truck stuff” without a big vehicle.
LIVE
All right, so public speaking specialist
Not brain surgeon not brain surgeon and flip-flop connoisseur. Yep Rick Mears
Yes, I just said that Rick Mears if you could describe this dinner with racers in one word
What would it be?
diet diet
Because we starved it up
Well, you know, it's just it says you guys do such a good job you make it say interesting and it's a fun to do
You don't want to take time to eat
That's a compliment. Yeah, that's not what Tony Stewart said. No, no, you guys ate
And now for dinner with racers presented by continental tire with your hosts Ryan Eversley and Shawn Hekman
Angry
Hey, it's yet another episode of reheated. I'm Shawn Hekman. I'm Ryan Eversley and
We put one out a couple weeks ago because it's the month of May and well specifically
What's what's going on this weekend Ryan that that old Indianapolis 500 is going on this weekend there Shawn
It's a it's a quite a big event
I've heard a lot of people show up like hundreds
So when we were thinking of old episodes, we could sort of rehash and give you a little bit more kind of behind the scenes
Context on I was thinking of okay when it comes to Indie. Is there anyone we could sort of
repost that maybe people haven't thought about in a while and I thought back to
2018 there's a guy that well, he's he's wanted it a few times
Yeah, it's funny because when I re-listen to this episode to get some notes for for this this hosting
It's it the same thing that happened in real life kind of happens with Rick in general
But Rick Mears is a four-time Indie 500 winner
He has the poll record at Indie 500 and it's almost like you forget that we did Rick Mears
And when I listen to him, it's because he's so chill and so laid-back
That you kind of forget the fact that he's Rick Mears like it's it's Rick Mears really literally like a
legend among men and
And it's almost like all right
We did that because he's just so chill and laid back that you kind of don't remember like the guy was unbelievable
Yeah, and so don't get me wrong all of our episodes are my favorite right, but I would honestly say this is
Probably like top five of all time for me. Yeah, not like top three or four
And it's because of exactly that that we're sitting there with Rick Mears. He gave us two parts for the content
Because like he yeah, I don't I don't know how to say this
These are always my favorite episodes
I think they are for you too, but you're not entirely sure what you're gonna get if definitely a hero because it's Rick Mears for crying out loud
Jeremy Toronto who was with Penske at the time
I don't want to say he warned us or anything
But he you know had made it clear that Ricky is a little media shy doesn't always do this kind of thing
So, you know, he wasn't really sure what we were gonna get and holy there's a phrase you and I keep using
Meet your heroes. Yeah, I was actually laughing about this because
The beginning of the episode is not very heavily edited it kind of jumps right in and it's pretty much exactly what we got and
What I remembered when I started listening to this is that I remember in the moment
You and I both realized and like he gets what this is
Because it was just
Talking shop, you know, we're just telling stores are chopping it up and there was no like what what is this exactly like?
She just got it right away and he got us right away
And and it comes across so so effortlessly because he's just like he's like busting one-liners with us almost instantly
And that was exactly how it went in real life. So yeah, absolutely
That that really made me happy and I realized this because like oh, that's right
He just figured it out and when we were given that kind of that heads up from Jeremy just being like hey
You never know, you know, this, you know
Not sure we're gonna get here and he he was all in his reputation in the industry is that he's a very nice guy
But this isn't his thing. He doesn't really do a lot of media in fact even in our interview
He talks about how he doesn't like doing media. Yeah
But that's how comfortable he was with it because he felt like he was talking to just a couple of dudes
And so this one will always stand out because you know, you and I both grew up in different parts of the country watching him as children
Thinking how cool this guy was seeing him when all these big races and to be you know face-to-face for four plus hours and get just
Everything and some candid stories that we didn't expect here. Yeah, it's truly one of my favorite favorite fancy. Yeah
Yeah, absolutely. So I'd say with that. He doesn't need a whole lot more
No
But what a legend
Rick Mears, so there's not a whole lot of crazy behind the scenes that we didn't mention in the hosting
However, I'll give one which was we ate in a restaurant right there in downtown Indy called Palomino great Italian restaurant
And that is because Palomino
Was our backup restaurant because the restaurant that is in his hotel. I won't mention which one
Is one of extremely few restaurants that have ever denied us
I would honestly say we've done over 300 episodes that
99% of the restaurants have no problems with this doing
Audio-based podcast when we do video stuff. It's a little bit different and I think up until this point in 2018
You know first couple years we were doing this. We weren't sure how easy to be. Yeah, it's to be on board by 2018
We thought nothing of it like oh they'll be fine because they've all been fine this restaurant flat-out said no
Yeah, it was at that time. It's crazy that I remember the specific statistic
But at that time the second restaurant in the history of dinner with racers that had ever rejected us. Yeah
So Palomino though came through and really liked my
Armageddon chicken sandwich
Yeah, and I've got a little tidbit that I just remembered that I'm gonna say for the second intro for part two of our reheated with Rick Mears
All right, we're gonna start in 5432
Oh
Because you're you're still spotting right? Oh my all right put this on we'll get right into it
We were talking about this earlier like you were Haley oh forever and then obviously he hasn't been around and then are you still
Well, yeah, this is the first year, you know that he so he was here all last year right and
This is the first year he's not running full-time
So, you know, I was him been here. I was spotting for him here right the other races
I'm just kind of helping out doing what I've always done
Okay, so you're not spotting somebody else during the rest of the year. No, but you're Haley of this month
So you I'm a backup I guess
I was coaching at St. Peter's in sick
I was coaching at St. Peter's this year and you were on top of the turn one area
Parking deck with a radio. So I assumed you were helping somebody well
I just want us watching if I see something that I can chime in on the safety wise
Yeah, sure do it, but now it was just kind of listening to what was going on. Yeah stay on breast
What's happening? So now I want to see if you're a real racing driver. So
So today
Fastest that was was Haley. Oh, and this is not really like a news of the day kind of kind of podcast
But Haley it was fastest today. Are you gonna take all the credit? Oh, absolutely
Yeah, never made that lap without me saved him three times time everything in here. Yeah, that's excellent
Saved him three out of the four corners, you know, I can always see to so a guy like him wins three times
What I mean, I like I don't say this in like a
Dismissive way like I really don't know what you're spotting, but is there coaching for a guy like him? Not really. I mean
Yes and no, I mean, it's not coaching. Well, I guess it is coaching what you call it's
Obviously, he's got the talent, right? And he's got the experience, you know, he's he's run a lot of years
So
But you know in the heat of the battle sometimes you get focused and this is what you're doing and you're your kid off
The other guys or whatever and and sometimes you don't think about you know
Maybe a different pattern a different line or or you don't see what some some of the other guys might be doing or whatever like that
And I can remind him of that kind of thing. Sure. Hey, thank you
Say, you know, you might want to try a little you know a little later entry
Yeah, a little higher pattern a little lower pattern get down the paint a little more or whatever, you know
Or if I see something that might help him with the airflow and traffic behind somebody, you know
To help maybe get a run at him something like that. Yeah, just something that I've been there done, right? Yeah
That I feel might help, you know, which which he needs very little of that
Yeah, so but it but at times you just go to get so focused sometimes, you know
You don't think about some things, right? So and he I mean he's the first to tell me that I was one first thing
He said they just remind me of this. You know, we've been talking about some pattern changes and everything
He said just be sure remind me because you know, you get tense you get focused and yeah
We have I was gonna say the car I've raced the last couple years of GT3 car has like all the same
It's actually the same steering wheel that the old champ car or Indy car had from Honda all the same switch is everything
We have fuel mixture and ABS and TC and all that stuff
It's a lot but I honestly and we were talking to somebody else about this the other day about how they just leave it alone a lot of
Time yes, I can't remember who it was might have been handshift or something
But anyways knows Roger Roger Hayden motorcycle rider
He was telling us they have all the same things
But I'll say the same thing to my engineer
I'm like just remind me later that I have those options because you're burning the tires off and more TC would help
But when you're in the in the fight, you don't think that way you just keep you know focused on that sure good
To have somebody that actually has a reference to be like hey
I'm noticing this remember you have that and that's what it is
And you know you watch you up there you feel the wind you watch see the direction changing to hear him say something
On the radio about this corner doing so so well part of that's when right, you know
If he hadn't seen the flags or whatever it's just a little stuff like everybody else so boxed into where they are, right?
Yeah, yeah, and you know and you talk about the switch it I you know I grew up without switches
That switch was right there. Yeah, you know, that's that's what you save the tires
Save the fuel with
My foot's the switch
So I'd you know, I'd have to learn how to use all those two so I can't help him there at all
Now did you have like in your days because I'm assuming you didn't but did you have a spot or anybody up top?
No, I've never I've never driven with a spot right wow
And you know, I bet I've got mixed feelings on the spotting. I've never been in total agreement with it
in what sense and
That's my job, right?
That's up to me. Yeah, I don't like anything that I lose tools
So you feel like having a spotter you kind of lose some control
Well, if I can do a better job and know what's going on around me than they can yes
I've lost I've lost something a similar conversation. We've had lately with that is a lot of the technology like paddle shifting
Exactly clutch and it's taken skill sets away. Any driver aid. Yeah is a lost tool to me, right?
And I've always been that way and it's like I've always been in which I'm tickled now
You know, I think Indy cars doing a great job and in the direction they're going on the rules the arrow package
I've argued I've argued that for 30 years. Yeah, but the less down for us now
Of course more power, right? Yeah, let me drive the car. Yeah, exactly
There's a difference between driving driving and guiding. Yeah, I'd rather drive it than guide it
Sure, you know, and that's my job and that's how if I don't have those options
I lose opportunity of trying to do something better than somebody else. So yeah, so back to the spotting. I mean, I you know, I
Agree with it for what it was originally brought up for safety
You know, right because our cars are closing rate and you can't see far enough
I mean, I come off of for I'm trying to look around the end of turn one as far as I can see
Yeah, and looking for a puff of smoke or anything that might be an indicator that I'm gonna have to get ready to pedal
Yeah, and so do you feel like it almost trains you to not have to think about that? Yeah, and it
To me with the
younger drivers that have grown up with spotters that
sometimes the
The spotters kind of end up
Teaching them that they drive the car right
Yeah, but the thing is and what I've when I've worked with the indie lights guys, you know the ears and
And that's always one of the first things to tell me, you know, you ought to hear when I say what there
You know, I used to do it coming out of here on
Pit straight, you know, I never when I come out of the pits
I never went clear to the wall into turn three
I always left a car with on the outside of me when I ran into three
Because I was taken out one at one time by Mario as a matter of fact
And
You know, but but as soon as it happened, I knew what happened. It wasn't his fault
You know, I'd come out of the pit and I was getting up to speed and I was moving over and I was you know
Or no, I was the other way around I was at speed
He came out of it and as he was getting up to speed
He was moving over like this which kept me in his blind spot
Okay, that angle kept me right in his blind spot all the way up and when we got to the end of the straightway
he stopped
Left lane widths and I had a big run. Yeah, okay. He sees me so I'm gonna and just as I got right about here
I saw his right front do this to set up right
You know, and we hit yeah, we never knew I was there sure but as soon as it happened
I knew what had happened. You know, he had nothing to do with him
Yeah, but anyway back to the spotting dealers kids, you know, say that's I always did that
But today you don't have to worry about this much because you got spotters that I never had a spotter and they go you what?
How did you do that, you know, like it's like it's well, that was my job right off
Yeah, to be and I try to sell them on
Because to me it's a performance issue
To me if you know what's going on around you at all times you can make quicker decisions
I said so I tell them because only sometimes only you can get these kids to listen as if they think it's gonna help them
Go faster
Then their ears perk anything other than that. It's like yeah, yeah, yeah, I know in it right but so
You know I try to say wait a minute, you know, I'm spotting now
So I know what it is and and I said believe me I can make mistakes
You know, so you don't want to rely a hundred percent on your spotter
Yeah, you need to know what's going on at all times. I said because he can miss it
You know he can miss something, you know
Sometimes you've got to get into a hole that you don't have time to wait for somebody to say something
Yeah, if you know what's going on around you
You know if that hole's there or not right if you don't and you have to wait on your spot or you'll miss a lot of opportunities, you know, so
You know
So then then then I say besides that because that there'd be an incident when I was working with them for a while with
with Indy car and they'd come in after the race
This that and the other and you know
So what happened you know well this that you know, he should have you know his spotter should have known
Wait a minute. Yeah, I said that you know, haven't I been trying to tell you I don't want you to rely on your spot
Yeah, his spotter may have been to the bathroom
Sure, right, you know me you don't know and now you're trying to rely a hundred percent on somebody everybody else's spotter also, right?
so early on I could see it causing some incidents and it has it's caused crashes that otherwise wouldn't happen because
Everybody just comes to expect
It's they're gonna it's gonna be there and it's gonna be perfect sure and it's not you know
I mean obviously they all do the best job they can do and want to do it and for safety reason
But but then there's some cases some spotters tend to try to drive these kids cars for them, right?
That's what I used to tell them say wait
Just remember when your spotter says go high go low and he's trying to get you to block somebody
Cuz one of my pet peeves is blocking
I hate it here with a passion and I said just remember, you know when you go block somebody
He doesn't get the fine you do. Yeah, right, you know, he doesn't hit the fence you do
He doesn't feel the pain you do. Yeah, he doesn't get the drive through you do
Yeah, you know, so you've got a head on your shoulders. You you got to use it yourself
Mm-hmm, and and he is a backup and that's what that's what I am frail
Eleo is more old school in that respect. He doesn't need a lot of chatter, you know
And and it's just when I see a quick dive because I can tell you know
Somebody's down a straight way and they're moving, you know, it's so easy
You you know, he's over here you glance in that mirror about the time
He's made the move and and you don't even know he's one way or the other and when they do a quick dive like that
You know, it's a it's a quick and you can
And that's where we try to try to help but he doesn't need much chatter on the radio
So you've been doing this for a long time
The spotting the coaching you got not only the Indy car schedule, but you go to a lot of tests for Penske as well
At least you used to yes, or that's still current
That that means you've been like the longest Penske employee
Probably pretty close like 35 years or whatever. Yeah, so it's not like you just do this for Helio
You've been doing this for a long time
Yes, and so of all these guys you got to work with who would you say is the
Closest to Rick Mears, but that's been out. Oh, I think I don't I don't know
I don't I just I never think about myself in that respect. Sure. Yeah, I just I just don't is there somebody that Roger equates to you
I
Should say mr. Penske. I don't know him
One of the greatest compliments I've ever had is he said he helped me Joe Montana
Oh, okay
I just I I saw it in an article one time I fell over and
Montana's wins, you know
And he's never asking about hiring when he hired me
Did he realize he was gonna you know get a four-time Indy winner or whatever?
And he said no, I know I
I thought I was hiring some pretty good talent, but I didn't realize I was hiring a Joe Montana. Nice. Yeah, take that
That was cool
Now for the kids out there Joe Montana
He didn't have a spotter either
Speaking of which I hate to ring up a sore subject, but you so you retired in 92
And like I said, you've been you've been working with a lot of young kids. Have you ever looked at when they're born?
No, okay, it's probably for the best don't want to know. Yeah, right
Do you ever is there is and you don't have to name names, but please name names
Has there been that punk? He's like, who the hell is this old man? Oh
Yeah, no, I mean, I can't remember believe me. You're not worried about me. He's names. I can't remember names
But no, there's been times, you know, you could just tell it, you know, yeah, he doesn't know he goes in one or not
Right. I remember there was one kid I was working with and he'd come into the light series and
You know, he was he was a pretty good shoe in a Sprint car, you know, okay, and
And I really think at the end of the day, it was more of a come in and try to intimidate
Okay, you know be the intimidator sir speaking and
And he did he ran well
But he had a lot to learn but he didn't think he had a lot to learn good. Yeah, and
so
You know, he and I butted heads a little bit and finally
It's fine. I
Because that's why I've always done it, you know, I'm more than willing to help somebody if they want to listen
Sure, if they don't then hey, yeah, when you get ready. Give me a yell. Yeah, I'll help I'll help all I can
How do you piss off Rick Mears?
Like career advice 101 don't do that. Yeah
we remember it a
One of his early races on a road course I
Remember I was driving down pit lane
my bike and I went by his pit and I saw him as after qualifying session or whatever and
And he was sitting on the wall his head down like this and just just drenched
I mean, he had just just beat himself up trying to and he was like last, you know, and
And I keep out ready
and
So I turn around went back and just you know, I sat down beside it
We started talking and it's amazing how the ears open up now, right?
Sometimes they just got to get ready, you know, they got to put their hand on the stove two or three times sometimes to say hey
You know that that's hot, right? No, and and he and I became good friends. You know, and he did very well
But can you tell us who it is and we'll bleep it? No
Yeah
Off the top of my head
Quick I can't remember it tonight some point sure tomorrow from so what's the in like your
Reputation is the the cool collective California and that nothing ever rattles you fall asleep in the car
What's the trigger? What's the thing that gets you irate and starts breaking plates? I
Remember Roger even said after I got out of the car and you know, I went up after him afterward as a sorry
I kind of lost my cool back there. He says oh you kid. I thought it was great
But you know, it was somebody that I was lapping and we tangled in end up taking me out but
You know blot me even on the track. I don't get me, right?
You know, and I've always been one that you know Cranowar spilled milk into any good. Yeah
and you know, I
Listened the guys on the radio yelling and screaming for three laps. I'm thinking they're losing time
Right. Yeah, you're not focusing anything like me. They are because I can't do two things at once
Yeah, I can't you don't scream and go fast at the same time
So, you know, if somebody cuts me off that's usually what makes me the maddest somebody cutting off or blocking me
Yeah, I just I've never liked it. Yeah, but um
In the car, you know, so it you know, if somebody does something me in turn one
I want to be over it by two. Sure. Yeah, cuz I cuz the head's got to be back in the game
And I got to get the most out of two. Yeah, or I'm losing time
If you go to an IMSA race to follow the actor DPI's don't scan and listen to Agna Andy Lally
Might drive you nuts
Well, you know some guys can do that. Yeah, some guys they can they can I just can't do two things at once
I just got a drive and it's like I don't know that I you know, I'd have made it with a spotter
Right, you know, I'd be I'd been saying leave me alone. Right. Yeah, you know, how are you about talking on the radio?
Were you talkative or no, no, and that's it and you know, it's I remember, you know, conversation with Roger early on. Yes
Talk all you want, but don't expect me to answer. Sure. Yeah, you know, I can listen
If I if I have to answer I lose time sure
Working over here, you know, so during a yellow we need something or if I've got a problem that needs to be, you know
Conveyed then, you know, I can talk but
Obviously I can talk if I have to but it's just I'd rather not if I don't right so
We learned about you obviously to do this that you started out doing some motorcycle stuff
Mm-hmm mom didn't like that so much right so you guys started racing sprint buggies
Yep, which I'd never heard of before and they were kind of like dirt road courses. Yeah, it was
Where we raced was that at Ascot Park, right? Yeah, and on the motorcycle TT track
Yeah, we heard about Jeremy Shaw, but Ascot was like a circle track
Half my clay oval. Yeah. It was a well-known sprint. Yeah. Yeah. It was like the Los Angeles
Yeah, exactly and and then they'd run motorcycle TT
You know you go through one and two and circle back in and go around the pond and over a big jump and then
Like this and then back out onto the half mile right just a motorcycle TT track
And then then for the buggies they we took an added they added some logs on the ground a couple spots here and added a few
More bumps rather than just the one flyer, you know jump so you could
You didn't have to have a you didn't want like a full-blown
Desert truck, yeah, you know 20 inches of travel right I need it. It was a cross between a sprint car and a yeah, you know
Yeah, but that's that was the first car I drove and and
You know me I was mom's idea. I was racing bikes and and I'd been running motocross for a couple years
whatever that's still about 15 16 and
And
She was afraid I was gonna hurt dad raced in the Midwest when we were growing up and the equipment I was about five or six
I barely remember a little bit, but
so
You know she decided she wanted me something with a roll cage to seatbelts and sure and a little safer
She didn't realize it was leading to two in our car
This was purely recreational fun. It was just what we did. It was our family recreation. Yeah, because you guys are from Bakersfield
Yeah, we'd worked during the week, you know and that had built a work to tail off the little small construction business and
Few backhoes and we dug ditched during the week and worked on the cars at night and right in the shop and went racing on the weekend
And you and your brother Roger would go do these these sprint buggy races and just dominate and it was basically you versus Roger
Was was what I read. You know
It was pretty much going after it
But when you're off track you weren't rivals you're actually helping each other so you could beat up on everybody even more and just race each other
And and that's where the team concept fit right in right when I signed on with Roger
Sure, you know, cuz that's the way he operated the team and and I'd been practicing the team concept unknowingly all my life
1972 you get invited to go to Japan to race these buggies you're 20 years old
What's that like as a culture shock going to Japan? That was your first time an airplane
Oh, I loved it when I found McDonald's down in the cans of the first
First one they'd ever been open there
Biggest fields a couple hours out of Los Angeles, but it's about a million Myers
I'd never been an airplane right first first flight
First flight is on a 747 to Japan, right? Yeah, and and that was one of my first
They're at the time major win. Yeah, you go and you win in Parnelli Jones, right in the race and he finished a second
Yeah, so that puts you that's got to make you feel a little better. I got to outrun my hero. Yeah
heroes and
You see I'd melt and met Parnelli Parnelli had helped me
You know
As a matter of fact, he was one of our first sponsors when we were running the sprint buggies down LA
We'd on the way down
We'd load up and go to the big show on the way down to LA
We'd go by the the Firestone dealership and they'd give us a set of tires nice we'd mount them up and
They go to the racetrack and groove them out there in the track and right matter of fact my driving shoes were his
PJs the Parnelli tennis you yeah PJ all right. Yeah, those are my driving shoes. That's so
Back when drivers were celebrities. Yeah, right there. She do and then obviously, you know
As we got going more and more into that and he'd show up at Ascot every once while watch this run
Yeah, and he's a big off-road Baja guy. Yeah, he was running Bob and then and then we eventually moved into the off-road
Also, sure, and matter of fact one of the last desert races. I drove I ended up driving for Parnelli
The last Baja 500 that I ran in his pickup
Yeah, but so we became good friends and he was always you know if I can help you anything
Let me know, you know, right and just a great guy, you know, it just man's great
But you talk about a competitor. I've never seen anybody as competitive as that guy. It's sure. I mean he just
Stands on the gas
When I rode with him pre-running one time. Oh, wow, and that was back then and I remember sitting there
I'm not a good passenger anyway, but you know and then riding with him and he's just on it out across the desert as pre-runner
And I remember sitting there saying he's the best. He's one of the best in the world
Yeah
We have a very small version of that with Robbie Gordon last year
We went to his shop in Charlotte and he's got his new side-by-side that he's about there hadn't been debuted yet
And it's nine o'clock at night and he's like, yeah
We'll take you guys for rides and in his parking lot is where they test the trucks right with the jumps
I've never jumped anything on purpose ever and it's pitch-black and we go right out of his front door in this thing
And he hits a jump at like full speed
I couldn't see we were gonna land and I'm like same thought it's probably Gordon like
But even then I'm like
Not into it not into it to talk to yourself. Yeah, exactly
So you go from doing the sprint buggies and Baja stuff to Formula V
Mm-hmm, and then super V win the runoffs and then you end up meeting Bill Simpson
Yes
The way it took places I
You know we run the desert and I mean
Still running a short track the desert Pikes Peak running those three things and then at this point
Is this still in your mind recreational or do you see this maybe going down a path?
I never dreamed of getting into an indie car until six months for sure
But like could you be like a professional off-road guy? Did you see yourself going down this path?
Yeah, I mean, but I never I never thought about making enough money to do it without still running the back
But
That was always in back your head. Hey if something takes off it'd be great, you know
I can always come back and jump on the back over right
Yeah, cuz I read that your parents actually wanted you to learn how to do all that stuff
So you had a backup plan as well
With your dad having gone and raced for a while, but then switching to business
I'm assuming that wasn't by choice because he didn't get picked up to be a big superstar
But when you start racing is he telling you like hey if you're not doing it, right?
You're not doing well. This is where you're gonna end up
Not not a lot. I mean, you know, I don't recall that we really had those kinds of conversations about it
I I don't think I
Don't think we had much time to think about it actually turning into something sure we were just busy having fun, right?
You know and
We were planning how do we get to the next race? You know, what do we have to do?
What do we have to rebuild this whole time you're still working full-time you're still you're still doing construction. Oh, yeah, we'd get up, you know, like
The sprint Boogie races at Ascot where you're using on a Wednesday night about cool
Okay, or a Thursday night, you know, they switched over the years over there
And so it even seem like it never failed. I'd have a backhoe job halfway up the ridge. Yeah halfway the LA
Yeah, right, you know, it'd be there at daylight and turn around drive back home and get the cars loaded up
Traffic
Yeah, yeah, and then get home at 3 and 3 and 4 in the morning and then turn around back up the ridge again the next morning
Anyway, so we did that for several years. Yeah, but
so I never really
Never really thought about it as far as making a living at it. It was just it was but when I look back with the
2020 hindsight I can see what
Help make it happen, you know, and a lot of it was that I wasn't thinking about yeah, you know
and it
because
like the V when I
I just had there's a friend of ours in Bakersfield ahead of
He had little dino in his garage and he would dino some of our buggy engines first once while we'd need him
Take more between me and run them and and so
He was an SCCA guy and he had a formula V and a super V
V at the time, but so he just calls me up on this. Hey, he says I
I've got this old V. He said I bought myself a new super V
I'm gonna start running super V. He said you want to go down to Riverside and take this old V down and get your
Pavement license. Sure. Sure, you know
you know and
Back to what helped it was jumping around a lot what I didn't realize was going on was
It kept my name popping up in a lot of different areas. Yeah, you know, and I didn't I wasn't doing it for that reason
Right, but I I just loved if I I could be leading the points championship and whatever we're doing at the time
And somebody can I say hey, what do you think about trying this?
Once sure
Go do it, you know, if it came to it depending on what it was. Yeah
Just because I wanted to get in everything I could I love driving right
What I'd also assume these are such crazy different disciplines to think about how especially indie cars at that time
I would assume everything you picked up from off-road to
It's all relative. I mean it all you learn something and you can't drive too much or too many
As far as I'm concerned, you learn something and everything that will apply somewhere, right down the road
And you know the desert thing, you know that was never
never really got
Is just do as far as I'm concerned because it's one of the most difficult forms of a racing
I've ever done absolutely and you know you get one lap. It's 800 miles long. You don't memorize it
Right, right. Yeah, and so you're you're every corner you come to you're trying to get the most out of it
The one and only time you go through it, right, you know and and
It's funny. You'll you'll be out there just run along a haul along you
And you're reading the terrain as you get to the corner to try to figure out as a fast corner slow corner
Yeah, a cliff or what?
And so you read it as you get to it and you pitch the thing in there and
Get back on the throttle you know and slide it across and you're right up on the top of the berm coming out to exit
You know and it's bouncing along. Oh, I made it. You know, right? Yes, right?
Oh, wow, nobody saw that
So you had to do it for the love of doing it
But it's you learn so much the focus and concentration
You know when I got an indy car a four-hour race with a piece of cake
I was just 68 10 12. Yeah, right, right keeping your focus because you don't know what's coming
Yeah, this is the same terms over and over again. Yeah, right
I remember I was getting my formula v license at Riverside
The scca guy there I was getting ready to go out and he comes up and he sits down inside the car and he leans in
He says now listen son
This is a lot different than bouncing across that desert
Yeah, I bet it is. Yeah, I bet it is. But I didn't know what to expect either. Sure. Yeah, right, right
I've never been in one. So I went out down after about five laps and I'm thinking about
He ought to try bouncing across
Easy, you know smooth no dust no holes
And then I think the next day, you know, I'd
I hadn't run pavement. I think I ran a season of local stock car in town. You know a quarter mile
and
It started it started sprinkling raining a little bit during one of the practice sessions
So I'm running on here. Hey, this is cool. I'm slipping the sliding around, you know, pretty soon. I see the black flag
Okay, so I pulled in
So what's wrong?
What's the deal? You're going too fast. Oh, what?
I didn't know that was a thing
Yeah, I didn't have the idea right right
I mean, I knew where they were coming from for what they for what I for what they thought I knew
Yeah, right. They're probably trying to stop you from hurt yourself. Yeah, right. Yeah
So you go from super V's to a Formula 5000 car
That's a pretty big jump even in anything today's this this is again parts of this boils back down to
What I was talking about just getting in everything. Yeah
When when I got into the V
You know, I ran and this this is the timeline on this
I ran like a a few races the last half of that season with a V
And there was a guy with an up-to-date
Modern Formula V that was having trouble with his driver. And so he said hey
Would you drive for me next year in this?
I'm thinking okay. I current right car. Yeah, cool with no funding. You just see this. Yeah. No racing. Yeah, right?
That could happen. I get to drive. Yeah
and
So I said sure look to
So at the same time how that was coming about was a friend of mine. I found him doc dr. Sowers
lived in california and we raced off road with
and
He had always wanted me to co-drive with him, you know, and we always had our own cars or whatever
And so he calls me one day. He says hey, he says i'm i'm getting ready to go to atlanta to the runoffs
He said i want to go watch him
He said you want to go? I said sure. So we jumped on a plane flew to atlanta
Watched runoffs or on the way back. He says like he said I'll tell you what he said. I want to go to the runoffs
He says i'll make you a deal
So what's that? He said
How'd you like to run a super v and try to qualify to go to the runoffs? I said that'd be great
He said i'll make you a deal. I'll supply a car. I'll get you a car
You take it maintain it run the lcca season, you know and try to qualify
And to go to the runoffs. He says
He says the thing is he said you got a co-drive with me in the 500
That's the deal. Yeah, yeah, right. He'll give me the car if I co-drive with him. Sure, right. Yeah
Yeah, I think I could manage. Yeah, right. Yeah, so we did that he bought the super v and so now that was the beginning of that year with the new v
So I ran the v and the super v that year
and
We we finished
I finished third in the v
For the season and I won the super v
So I qualified both cars to go to the runoffs atlanta. Yeah
And I couldn't wait to get to atlanta. Yeah, you know, we've been running against the cali club region west coast guys
Yeah, right. You don't see how you stack up the runoffs. I mean, it's still a thing, but it used to be a big big deal
Yeah, yeah, do you remember that first place? I heard bobby ray hall's name was when I was there with doc, right?
Yeah, that's gonna say it's like were there were any names you remember ray hall being
Yeah, any other when I was there? I'd never I and not talking about off top of my head
Yeah, right. I mean, that's I think I remember that was the first place I'd ever heard that right if you won the runoffs
You were somebody and you could do something. You know, that was a big deal back then for sure
So I was really looking forward to that. Well, what happens? I get an indy car deal
And I don't know that you know
I get it. Yeah, right. So, you know, I think the first or second indy car race came on the same weekend as a runoff
So I never got to go to the runoff. Yeah
And right after qualifying and beating up on people like you never got to go
Yeah, right back to that jumping around. You still can, you know
You may still have to run some regionals. We got to qualify first. Yeah
But getting back to that running different things and stayed in any one thing. Yeah when I look back at what helped
Uh, as I remember like when I got in the v
You know, I'm looking at the super v's, you know, you go to a race and I'm walking around looking super v's
Well, the super v guys won't talk to me, you know
Kind of look down their nose. Yeah, right. That's the formula v race. Had to get out of the desert, you know
And so then I get a super v and I start racing against them, right? So now I'm looking at the Atlantic cars
Yeah, Atlantic car guys. They won't look at me. Right
So now I jump over the Atlantic into a 5000 car, right and now all the land guys want to talk
Exactly, buddy. Yeah, right, right. But it was just funny. I mean, I didn't care one way or the other about it
It was just funny to see how it all all worked. But but yeah, the the 5000 thing came together with simpson
and uh, I'm the v in the super v thing
And um, and he had seen your talent from the super v stuff like just well of that and in in uh,
A fella named steve richards that worked for bill that took care of the off-road
Sure, all the off-road stuff, right and fred crows who I dealt with at simpson
And you know, simpson gave me my first fire suit, you know, that's I ran
I ran his is the first equipment ever got sure he gave me the first suit that we were in in the buggies at ascot and helman
and uh, so and and we were using it in the desert
And steve richards was always putting a bug in his ear. Hey, uh, watch this kid, which I didn't know at the time
Yeah, watch this kid
and
And I'd go down and like we'd go by firestone then we'd go by simpsons and I'd talk to fred crow and maybe pick up
Some stuff or whatever to go to the next race
and
And I'd never really met bill
so, uh
That'd been going along the on the v this would be and all that and I was going to the seaman show one time and and
Steve richards and I
Steve says, hey
Would you meet bill?
I said, okay, so we're we're going to
See I see simpson in distance kind of looking away from us. So we're walking up to him and
And I see bill kind of look over his shoulder and sees us walk on him. He says
I know don't tell me another one of those damn off-road racers
He's I wanted to drop him
This guy. Yeah. All right. We found her trigger. Yeah, right
He's desert rats. No
And so, you know, we we met ain't how you doing good
Okay, and went and did our deal and the next time I saw bill was in
It in his place in LA
I'd gone in to talk to fred and I was waiting outside in the office to talk to fred and bill walks through, you know
He looks over he seems hey, how you doing good off he goes
And that's all the conversation we'd ever had, you know
so
Sometime a little down the road. I get this phone call and it's bill
He says, what are you doing next Wednesday? I said, well, I'm working
Operating on the back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm working. He said, well, you think you can get off?
I said, well, I don't know. What what do you need? He says, I want you to test my 5000 car at willow springs
Yeah, I can get off. Yeah
Yeah
I don't feel good next week
So, you know, so I go to willow springs and we do the tests and you know and
I loved it. I mean, I I think I'd run with a v8 and it was a
A little bit of a season of that 57 Chevy on a quarter mile. Oh, right. Yeah, track their biggest state
It's like there's kind of no modern equivalent
but I mean it's basically like formula forward to
Like a dpi car with 10 times the power, you know, right? Yeah
I mean you look at super lightweight ton of power not safe at all
Was that a normal jump to go from v's to f 5000? I don't think so. Yeah, I got it. I don't think so
I mean
I didn't know the difference
Right, it's basically going for an f2000. It's got a steering wheel in it. Right. Just go figure it out
And uh, so we went and did the test and you know by the by the end of the test
I was running, you know a little quicker than bill had in the car and and that's when he
He was
No, no, no, wait a minute. I I'm sorry. I left out a big chunk of that story before I got the call from bill
You know, I'd just seen him the two times
I went over to willow strings to test the super v
I'd taken over there, you know, because it's right there close to bigger spin
So I went over there to test the super v
And um, and I'm working on the super v and I hear somebody say hey mirrors
And it's bill
He says come here. It's like I'd known him for 10 years. Sure. Hey, come here. I want you to take a look at this 5000 car
So we walked down the pit lane and it's he had the burda
5000 car he'd he was just getting ready to go to the first long beach race with it
and um
I want to take this he took me there and showed me the car and introduced me to the designer and everything
You know and we talked a little bit and sure that's cool. Okay. I'll see you. I went back and I did my testing
He did his and then we left
And then after that down the road is when I got the phone call for me. So I want you to test the 5000
So we did the test, you know, we ended up running running decent
and
one of the things that sold him as I drove it off the end of turn nine and
and
It's just dirt and rock. I lived I lived out there and that stuff
Yeah, I just kept the foot in it and got back on the track and going right and um, he liked that
but
So he said I want to sign you up kids that's not a lesson to learn
Don't go off
It wasn't planned by all means
You do you do a test and then he wants to sign you up and this this blew my mind
That even it existed. I actually thought it was a joke, but you were offered a contract
For how long
I don't know. There's any time limit on it, right? Yeah, the the legend has it was a 10-year contract
Which I like that's not a thing
I can't tell you this day if there was if there even was a year put to it, right, you know, you're you're my guy now
Yeah, he said I want to sign you up. He said the you know, and it's simpson. Yes. Yeah
Fives I never had a contract in my life, right, you know
And I wouldn't plan on going anywhere anyway, so it's like I
I care what I gotta do drive this thing. Yeah, well, that's two crazy things about him because the
jumping around a little bit the
Reading kind of on your history the thing that blew my mind about simpson wasn't just that he had this kind of indefinite contract
But he actually went to penske
And said you got to take a look at this guy, right? And I I can't imagine anyone in the paddock doing that today
Yeah, I mean to to be honest with you. I don't know all the ins and outs of what all bill did
I was just busy driving the thing and yeah
but it's you know
In the way that the 5000 deal, you know, the contract was
5000 and or indy car. Yeah, you know
and uh
Well simpson's no dummy and I didn't stick his punk kid in his
$300,000 indy car or whatever and got stick in the fence. Yeah
So I ran a couple of scca races and nothing really came about with the indy car
You know that over time and nothing was happening
and uh
And then finally, I guess, you know the way it came about was
And
Excuse me bill had the eagle he wanted to sell and he had bought the m16 mclaren
And uh our sue guy wanted to buy the eagle
so
A way to fulfill the contract plus
Not and taking the uh worry out of me crashing his car
Uh, you know, he says I'll tell you what I'll say the car into one condition. You know that mirrors drive into Ontario
And he said he said then if you guys are happy you go down the road together and if you're not you go your separate ways
And that's the way that you know, the first indy car race came about right
That probably wouldn't happen now
No, we were had lunch the other day with sam schmidt
And we asked him because all we've heard about robert wickens. So he also had lunch with this week
Uh is like if you go on the internet, it's like is he going to go to penske or ganassi
Who's going to scoop this kid up? He's so good
And we said to sam we're like, what's uh, what do you think about that? He goes, I'm no dummy
I learned my lesson with pagina
And we were thinking huh interesting. Yeah, whereas it sounds like bill
Would have been more along the lines of like, okay, this kid's good. He can probably do great things
I should help him go further
But that's something we both were thought. Yeah, that's not a normal thing anymore. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's
You know and and again and and also being salango too
I don't I don't know a lot of I can't remember a lot of the details and most of the stuff that happened
But you know, I was in I know like to get me into the ontario deal
He had to you know, do a lot to to make that happen
Get usac to allow me to even run. Sure. Yeah
Here's this kid out of the boat because your experience they were worried about getting you out there
Well, yeah, because I hadn't I right right at ontario right scary fast. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean
Um, I mean I'd never been I'd I'd run what?
Two was it two
Or three I can't remember now
Yes, you know 5000 races right right and a season
Of v and super v and a half a season of v that's how quickly half season of v
One season of v and super v right 5000 an indy car all then a year and a half two year period
You know that it took place and right. I mean I look at I look back at that and I didn't think anything about it
And I'm sure that's what's supposed to happen. Right. We're going right. So that'd be like a kid does some formula ford and it's like, all right
Poker now, but the thing was on ontario. What it was great was being a 500
We had a lot a lot of track time. Right, right, you know, and it's
It's like, you know, the first time I ever did anything didn't bother me
Right, you know, there's no pressure then and how old are you at this point? I don't know what 20
23 20, okay, so mid 20. So
Young enough to be young but not a dummy 22 23
And and I
I thought
We'll see because the first time there's no expectations the first time you do anything
You know the pressure starts after you set a mark
You know, okay, I finished 18th. Okay
That's what racing is is how do I improve the next corner?
How do I improve the next lap? How do I improve the next race?
So now I'm you know, okay the next one I better be 18th or better, you know
And then once you win one now, I got to win them all, you know, and that's that's when the pressure starts
So is the first penske conversation at ontario. Is that the first time you meet him? No, yeah
I
If I recall right the first time Roger and I ever had words was when I was trying to qualify the eagle
at
We could have maybe I don't think so, you know, we may have bumped into each other sure
But I don't know that's a real note the first one. I really remembered that
That we spoke was at indy when I was trying to qualify that pink eagle
And and I'd made two attempts
And I was mile and a half short whatever it was
And I'm sitting on the wall scratching my head trying to figure out what to do, you know, how work and I find that
And Roger walks by walking down the pit and he says hey mirrors
How's it going?
It's a high sitting. I'm just a little
So bumpy here. I can't see straight. You know, I'm trying to figure out what I need to do to get what I need
to run quick green. He says well, the best thing is just don't stick in the fence. That'd be the worst thing you do
Okay, yeah, I agree. All right, I didn't think of that and off he went down the pit lane, you know
Thanks. Thanks. I'm gonna go throw up now
And I and I remember you know after I made the the last attempt and and came up short
I remember sitting on the wall afterwards and the only way I could console myself was well
Maybe by next year, I'll have a little newer equipment
You know a little more you know more
Experience under my belt. Sure
Not knowing I'd come back the next year with the best team of business right
But that was the way I'd console myself and the next time, you know, Roger and I talked was
At the on the motorcycle ride wallies
Yeah, with Wally Domback. Yeah
yeah with
The the current state of motorsport, you know, Roger Penske is god. There is no debating that
At the time when Roger Penske's walking up. I mean, he's done stuff already at that point
But literally like if he walked in this restaurant right now, like I'd probably stop talking for fear of him hearing me
Say the wrong thing, you know, I mean
When he comes up and says hey mere how mirrors. How you doing?
Are you like, oh god Roger Penske's talking to me or is he just one of the team owners at the time?
Oh, I mean obviously
He's the man. Sure. Yeah, you know, but
I didn't even think about it in
In anything in the way of this could be a ride
I gotta say the right thing wrong thing or you know, you know, just could lead to something
I didn't think about like that
Because yeah, he was way out of my league. Right, right. Exactly. Just like an Indy car was way out of my league. Yep, you know
So I didn't even
I didn't think about
Having that kind of opportunity. I hadn't done anything. You're just responding. How can I have that opportunity? Right, right?
So you mentioned this ride
with Roger Wallingdoll and back. What was that a thing? Was he like a let's go out and
Took off for a bit. Wallingdoll, man. It's the right. He just started up
You know, he lives in Basalt, Colorado
And he started this ride where it's like a three-day ride. Yeah
And
At that time there was 35 of us. I think something got right
It was all racers that were invited, you know, Parnelli
You know gurney unsers
What's all racers because racers if know that if it's other racers, they all keep secrets
No one can rat each other out but go on
And basically what we do is they'd map it all out
And we'd we'd ride all day up through the Rockies and you know trails dirt ride and ride down into a town like, you know
Basalt or
Ronald Blank on
Something with a tee
um
Anyway, yeah, sure he's great little great little towns up the mountains and then they'd have all set up
You know with other chase trucks that take our
Oh, nice. Okay. Suitcases clothes and everything and
Meet us at the town that next night and then have a hotel set up and room set up with stay spend the night
About have dinner and hang out. Yeah, you know bench race all night and then yeah get up and ride all day the next day
And same town in it the same thing in a different town the next night, you know
And it was just a fun deal, right just a fun thing
And uh, you know, and you could ride it whatever pace you wanted, you could you know over the years
I mean, you know a lot of the problem with this kind of deal. That's a lot of
Swinging me goes
Trying to try to show who's better than the other guy. Oh, yeah. No, you know, it's it's yeah
At this time, you're not you're not rick meers yet. You know, you're still trying to make a name for yourself
Yeah, are you kind of star struck by the guys you're getting to hang out with at this point?
Yeah to a point, but I you know, it's
I was but I was because I really i'm parnelli. I'd met him in a desert, right?
And under as I'd met at pike speak. Yeah, okay
You know running at the hill and so many of these guys are off-road guys that you were already in that community
Yeah, which is why we were invited. Yeah, because we'd met him and known him and kind of hung out and did different things like that
The the the real difference was was pansky being there at that. Yeah. Yeah, he's just not a dirt bike guy that I
I didn't consider that wouldn't against that, right? I know and um
Now when I look back at it how I've seen him, you know over the years and
Do things I you know, I could be wrong
But it's almost part of it may have been to to see
Because that's where we made the first contact
And you know
See how I was away from the track, you know and just get a little better feel for who I was, you know
And then the sweet one morning we were getting the bikes ready to go and we're parked next to each other
I didn't ever ride at the time
Um
The the second team that I'd driven for teddy yip, you know for half a season he'd gotten out of the business
And uh, I'd been knocking on doors and couldn't get anything to open
I thought I had one going at one time and then it it went away
and so
We were getting the bikes ready to go just cleaned them up
And uh, we start talking he says
Pretty soon he says hey, he says I guess, you know, I hear your thing about Dharma so and so next year
And it was the one that I was thinking of it
Said that I might have something but which I knew at that time it it hadn't wasn't gonna go
I said no, no, not really
It's not gonna happen. I said I hear your thing about hiring so and so now
So we went on, you know
I didn't pretty soon he says I'll tell you what I got I got something in mind
Give me a call before you make a deal with anybody else
Yeah, I mean I about fell over. Yeah
Right me surprised me as much because and you like you didn't go on this ride
You went to this ride for fun. Yeah, you're not job on this wasn't a thing. Yeah, you didn't even know he's gonna be there
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was just a fun deal
I wouldn't do it for any other reason to go ride motorcycle have a good time
And uh, so need to say I stayed pretty close to him the next day's ride, you know
He fell off anything if you fell off I pick him up dust him off straight
Straighten his handlebar
I wasn't quite that bad, but
I tried to stake a little you gotta play cool, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well like perfect opportunity
It's dirt riding and motorcycles like you're riding your wheelhouse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're gonna go fly planes this weekend. No
Yeah, so, you know every time I pass raja. I did it on the rear wheel
You're gonna have like
Kids crashing pit bikes now at the next indy car race trying to show off a roger
Where does the infamous
Farmhouse meeting come into play at michigan
Where are in this timeline is this come after the after the motorcycle ride he says come see me
Yeah, you know he said, um
I don't remember now exactly. I don't know if I we got in touch or
Or started talking at the next race at michigan and um, and he just said, you know, meet me in the farmhouse and
730 whatever, you know that time in the morning was and
He said I'll go over what all I've got in mind
He still swears to this day. I showed up an hour or two early
and
Maybe I did
There was answer door is still in the robe. So maybe I was been right
Right
But now we just met there and he said hey
Here's what I've got in mind. He said he said mario is going to be running
Formula one next year and chasing world championship and he's going to miss a couple races and he said I need somebody to fill in part time
And so I you know
I played hard to get for about 30 seconds
I don't know
Is it roger? Let me think about this. It's roger, right? Let me make sure I got this all correct. Yeah, but um
He said, you know, he said I'll guarantee you I'll guarantee you, you know
Uh, I think mario is going to be at all the 500. So you're around a third car in those
And then a couple of those he's going to miss. He said, you know, you'll run the second car in that
And uh, he said I'll guarantee you at least six races, right and bobby was also full time
No, bobby wasn't there yet. Okay. It was sneeva. I was sneeva. Yeah, yeah, okay
Tom sneeva and um
So that was it would have been for 78
Okay
and so
You know, I mean, obviously I didn't have anything going
Right, right. Yeah, well, even if you did like a part time penske, right? I assume is better than that was my thoughts
Exactly. Yeah part time here is much better than full time. I love so
I mean, how could you even think about arguing with that? Yeah
We asked the most critical question
I'll say the story goes that you asked for a contract at the kitchen table in michigan
And he said what do you need that for and you said for your people, but you didn't have any people
You're just trying to seem like you had your together. Yeah, I think I wasn't even going to put that part in but
It is kind of
Um
I didn't
I didn't do it for any other reason. I didn't say that for any other reason. They're just trying to be a little professional
Right, right, right. Fake it. So you make it sound like you know, the kid had just fell off the back of the dump truck
Right, right. Exactly. Which is what I did
So and
And the reason I even that even came to mind was trying to be a little professional
Uh, and Parnelli, you know, I'd known Parnelli and he had always said hey, if you ever need any help with anything, you know
I'm more than happy to help you
And so that was kind of what crossed my mind
And and in a sense like what would have Parnelli done or well, you know
Yeah, it's like I just I wasn't really planning on taking it to Parnelli. Right, right, right, you know or anything like that
I was just trying to be a little professional. Sure
And you saw right through it. What I what I didn't realize is
That kind of wound Roger up
Oh, interesting
but
Like it's because then it was like
Well, what for like like a trust thing like this. Well, Roger's very close to the best on everything. He always has me
Yeah, you know, and and and it's great, you know
And that's just Roger
And and I I didn't really realize that that much at the time. I didn't know him yet
Either, you know, now when I look back at me saying that I think you idiot. Would you say that?
All right, all right
It worked out. Yeah
Well, but but it and and it did because it's like well, what for
Well, you know, I you know, or who or what I said, well, Parnelli and I I've known him he's always
said, you know
So I could understand, you know, what, you know, explain because I didn't know what else
Right, right
You next and what and and Roger says
Hey, tell you what
What are you doing next week or whatever the time was, right? I said what whatever you think do, you know, he said meet me in red bank
Meet me in the officer red bank. We'll sit down in the office
He said I'll have the contract. He said I'll go word for word and explain everything to you, you know
It's any questions, you know, and our contract was a you know, 23 page
If that yeah, right, right straight plain simple, right, right you drive for me
We do x
And so
I went to red bank. We sit down. Here's the deal. I said great. Let's go
Now in those days, especially for like for an off-road kid that was driving everything
Were did those days have that don't do anything stupid kind of clauses?
Like don't go don't go racing now. No, no, not really. I mean, you know, that was more just
Between he and I okay. It wasn't on paper. It was just sort of an understood. Yeah, and I mean he just flat told me
Because I think I even ran a couple off-road races. I think I ran
It was when Mickey Thompson did the first that was right around the same time
Mickey Thompson was doing the stadium stadium Coliseum first started that right I ran the first two of those which was 70
Would have been
76 77 so that was still before but but and then you know, you know, I'd get guys
Hey, you want to run a local open comp race on a short track here and over here or whatever
and uh, you know
and some
The off-road like riverside sprint, you know semi sprint short track desert
I was still playing had opportunity to play with some of that stuff
And he he's he felt like I do driving's driving. Yeah, you know, you know experiences experience, right?
And the only thing he ever said he says hey good, you know, do whatever you want
As long as it doesn't conflict, you know, sure. Yeah
Except a sprint car
Yeah, there it is sprint car
Yep, especially back then
That's the only thing, you know
Yeah, he had anything against me do it. I'm sure that now he said do what you want. So the most important question of the morning meeting
Oh, no. Oh, yeah, go ahead. Okay. I'm excited. Okay. So this michigan meeting
um, and you may not uh, you can you can plead the fifth but um,
The rumor was you showed up an hour early at 6 30 in the morning and and the story goes that
That mr. Penske
Opened the door and his you know in his robe or his pajamas. Oh that question. Yeah, that's right. I the I demand to know
um
What kind of a pajamas Roger penske?
Is it like did he have the hat like a cat with the onesie thing? I tell you I've hit the wall so many times between
You win this round beers
Okay
Okay
You get the penske contract probably the most money you've ever made at that point. What's the dumb thing you go out and buy
Um, I I didn't buy anything too dumb until after our one end. Oh, okay. What was the dumb thing you got?
Well, I bought a Ferrari
That's not dumb
Hey, wait a minute. It's dumb when when the car payment's higher than your house payment
Oh
The first time I'd ever have a car payment higher than my house payment. What kind of Ferrari was it a 308?
Well, you got to have it. But you got to have it. It's the maverick, right? Yeah, you got to be
Or the magnum
Yeah, you gotta have the magnum Ferrari exactly
I'd never owned anything like that in my life and that was my trophy to me. Sure. Sure. Okay. Was Tom Selleck a hero?
No
Yeah
Yeah, I mean as far as acting and you did have a rocking mustache at the time. Yeah, exactly. No, there's nothing wrong there
Um, I would argue that's a dumb purchase because you won indie and at that point you've established
You've made some money you on homes like you can sell the Ferrari
But like the first thing you go out and buy when they're like, hey, hey, hey, it's early
You know, was there anything that stands out like that like a motorcycle or something like definitely didn't need dollar shoes
Right, exactly. Not not really. Yeah
We'll allow your Ferrari, but except that you said you were making payments on the Ferrari
So you still uh, it wasn't like it's too cat
No, I couldn't turn loose of stuff that easily that
Yeah, that's that's
I still at that time I was
Still, you know kind of being taught of how to keep it
Right, exactly. Yeah. Is that something that did anybody from the penske organization like set you up with a proper investment?
Guy or management guy because he was obviously ahead of the game on a lot of things
No, I used local, you know living in california and everything the other end of the country
You know, I just basically used local people there that I that I knew or whatever
And and really I kept it. I kept it all very simple
I don't want you know, you can get me going to 19 directions. And now the only thing I did is is um
You know they said because of the dollar you made this you got to spend something sure. Oh, sure
So I bought some commercial property. Yeah, right and uh
To basically, you know, offset the tax a little bit, right and uh
First time I've ever signed my name to a million dollar deal
Right. Yeah, I understand. We've been there. That's how we got this show. Yeah, you understand, but I think it's the only time
I don't think I've done that since then either
We had that question actually as a as a current indy car member. Are you one of the highest paid athletes in the paddock?
Am I currently
No, okay, because we asked paul tracy says he does tv
We're like, are you still one of the highest paid indy car guys and same with mario and they both said yeah, probably
Now your dad actually ran his own construction business, right? Yes
Did that help out at all because it you know, a lot of times with any sport a lot of times parents
You know want to look after their manager kid because you know, they they think they know their kids message
Is better than anybody but they don't come from a business background and don't necessarily know what to do
But a lot of times guys who run their own businesses
Have a little better understanding at least of tax codes and that kind of thing
Yeah
We didn't you know
Not a whole lot. I mean dad was pretty straightforward on on you know
And like I said, it was a small business. He had a few backers that we ran my granddad ran one
Dad ran one and then he bought another one my granddad ran it named one of them
Her brother started a name bought a fourth one. I started running
You know just an hourly deal around so it wasn't some giant hundred staff kind of
No, it's a small business. But it was great. I mean it was it was a great business for us. It was good money for us
You know good work. Absolutely
and
You know and now you could you know like
My brother and if we hadn't gotten into racing, you know, my brother was he was always kind of wanting to
Grow the thing, you know
Dad wanted to keep it like this and and as as a way this small. Yeah, because he
He didn't you know the more you get the the insurance the this that everything else, you know, the library everything
and
You know, he wanted to keep it simple. Well, you're a big notorious bi g fan, right?
The rapper the rapper. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so the mo money no problems. Yeah. Yeah, that was exactly exactly
You got it
And stay tuned for part two
Of rick mirrors, but first here's a song called city block mastered
by vanilla woods
vanilla
woods
available on soundcloud
Yeah, it says summertime feel good shit. Yep. We already know
This is city block drop top two top soda pop in the backdrop sweat shop on the rooftop
I'm pushing pedals. It's ain't a facade. I'm a rebel born with a duet fundamentals
If you didn't know, I'ma let them chop it chop it
Talking Jimmy Kimmel my bin LA Hollywood molly old school bring it back. We'll Smith summertime
Sublime we got that third eye blind acoustic feel good our hood LA Hollywood on the clock at nine
I'll be up by five plenty of time with that. We hold night ride pushing pedals tank tops and skinny jeans
We be fitted we be fitted heading out. But wait a minute. Got cologne check
phone check
kids
Man, that's the city block when the sun come up. Man, that's the city block
When we up in the club, man, that's the city block when we skate in the street
Man, that's the city block when we shopping up deep man. That's the city block when the sun come up
Man, that's the city block when we up in the club man. That's the city block when we skate in the street
Man, that's the city block man. It's a cali thing. Yeah, it's a cali thing got that drum and bass man
That's a cali swing pay at the window. It's late
Fashionably actually I got a buddy who worked in the back roll down the alley man
We got it like that got that two step three step four step
Man, you already know getting along with you bro spotlight today beach rock break
Shirley temple with the cherry got a couple bucks and some change. We got lemonade kool-aid water break
Yeah, she come in my way got them shorts on give me one. We got no time for shade
Man, we soaking the rays. Yeah, we soaking our braids venice boulevard summer days doing it the cali way
Swing that's the city block when the sun come up man. That's the city block when we up in the club
Man, that's the city block when we skate in the street man. That's the city block when we shopping up deep man
That's the city block when the sun come up man. That's the city block when we up in the club man
That's the city block when we skate in the street man. That's the city block
About this episode
Hosts kick off a “reheated” conversation with Rick Mears, tying it to the Indianapolis 500 and to what makes his racing brain tick. Mears and the team talk spotters, visibility, and why you “don't want to rely a hundred percent on your spotter.” The discussion then swings to driver aids, desert racing’s one-pass challenge, and Mears’ early off-road and open-wheel path—plus the Penske connections and even what he bought after a big contract.
The latest of our RE-HEATED series, where we re-issue episodes that might share something with racing stories in the news… Episode 106 featuring Rick Mearsi. With the month of May upon us, we figured it was a good episode to re-visit. It’s Rick Mears, do you really need a description? He grew up in Bakersfield as an amateur off-road racer… then somehow he became a driver for Roger Penske’s IndyCar program…. then somehow won the race 4 times. How did that happen? Well we have the story in two parts. Dinner courtesy of Palomino in Indianapolis, IN.. Thanks to Continental Tire for all of their support!
