Episode 93: The future e208, forgotten EVs, and the grant punch-up

Hello and welcome to your weekly zap of all the latest electric car news from the team at electrifying.com.

This week, we'll be talking about the future of Peugeot, the big-grant punch-up, forgotten electric Citroens,

big electric MGs, and fords that you can't buy. We'll also be answering your electric car questions

and dipping into the post bag to find out your views on last week's episode. Welcome to the

Kilobot half-hour. I'm Tom. And I'm Vicky. What have you been up to? What have you been up to?

You've been more than me, I think. I've been almost snowed in. What have I been up to?

Wow. I can think of so many countries that would be very unimpressed at you saying that

with the light dusting that we've had. I have been quite busy, so I went out last week to

see the Peugeot Polygon concept, which I have to say, initially I was like,

yeah, I mean, it looks cool, but yeah, it's another concept, isn't it? But actually,

I'm quite impressed with it. And there's quite a lot of stuff in there. So this is

basically the next Peugeot 208. And it's also giving us a lot of design cues on what we're

going to see in future Peugeots. How about this? There are no touchscreens in it,

so Peugeot reckons that it would actually like to minimize, I should say,

the touchscreens that it uses. Unfortunately, at the moment, legislation means that you

do have to have a touchscreen. I don't know whether I mean, unfortunately, I'm not against

touchscreens, but I do think that we can go too far. But at the moment, you have to have a touchscreen.

But the Polygon concept is very clever, because it has no touchscreen. Peugeot reckons that with AI

and voice control and that kind of thing getting better, it might even be able to do

no touchscreens with good enough voice command and that kind of thing and steering wheel controls,

because the Polygon's got this really cool, it's a big screen, but it's not a touchscreen,

it's like a head-up display. So it reflects into the windscreen, but it's a huge control

it by the steering wheel. And I thought that was quite an interesting idea. So as Peugeot says,

the windscreen is all the screen that you need. So that's the marketing blurb.

But I actually thought it was quite clever. And also, they've got a little square steering wheel

called the Hyper Square, which we're going to be seeing in the next couple of years.

So that's going to be available probably as an option, which you can read more about that

on electrifying.com. It's one of those funny things that you think, oh, well, that's nonsense,

isn't it? A little kind of yoke steering wheel, but it's steering by wire. So it's fully electric.

There's no mechanical connection. Even the backup is fully electric, which, you know,

Peugeot tells us it's been through all the crash tests, you know, all the all the

legislation stuff has been ticked. It's a fully kind of safe system. So it's just as

safe as a mechanical connection. I had to go in a prototype as well. So you can read about that.

It's quite interesting because it's like a Formula One steering wheel. So little tiny inputs and

obviously the car turns a lot. So there's only one turn lock to lock on the steering.

Anyway, there you go. So it's not just something that looks cool. There's quite a lot of

interesting ideas in it that I think we will actually see kind of impacting production cars

in the near future. So yeah, it's a good book. We were talking about screens last week

because did you sit in that smart Bravis that we had at the barn? I didn't unfortunately know.

I have sat in a, did I sit? Yes, I did sit in a smart five a while ago, but not that one.

Because it had more screens than kind of the local cine world. It's ridiculous.

And we were talking about when it goes too far because I think the new Merc EQB is it?

You see the pictures of that and it's like, oh, come on. They're just all the way across

the dashboard and manufacturers like Audi are perhaps going with that Concept C

too far and we'll just wind it back. So it's interesting. Persia were sort of doing the same,

but you talk about voice activation and things. And I was thinking about that just today,

because I had to do some sums for review of, you know, converting kilometers to miles and

all that sort of thing. And I was asking Siri on my phone, I'll just say how many miles is

600 kilometers, for example. And I thought, oh, this is the first time I've done this rather

than just go to a calculator and do it on my phone, pressing buttons and things.

But I was thinking I probably wouldn't do that if somebody else was in the house,

because they'd go, well, well, and it's a bit like if you're in the car,

I don't tend to use the voice activation for stuff in the same way that I would if I was on

my own. Yeah, do you know, I don't know if you have the same. I do. Is this a sort of

self-conscious thing? Because I'm the same. Like, you know, when you call the bank,

which is always a painful thing or sky or whatever, or any big company, and they want

you to talk to it rather than just dial it, like the old fashioned way we used to press a button

to say yes or no or whatever. I hate it. I absolutely because you're there like an absolute

walley on the phone just going, yes, yes, that's what you just sound like an absolute walley.

And it's just kind of, you hear people on the train doing it, don't you hear people on the

train go, yes, no. I absolutely hate it. But I suppose it's slightly different to voice

control, but I'm the same. I would far rather, like even in the cars that obviously you can

say, you know, hey, whatever. I always just press the button on the steering wheel instead,

because I feel self-conscious about just shouting at the car, even when I'm on my own. I actually

don't like doing it. But this may be a generational thing, because I don't know what your sons are

like, Tom, but my nine year old daughter, she speaks everything into like she wants to look

for something. Her initial thing is she'll tell the phone to do it or the computer,

anything. It's kind of the voice command is her first port of call before she does anything else,

like types it in. So maybe it's a generational thing, I don't know.

Well, my sons who are officially adults, if we're in the car and there's like a message

that comes up and then you can reply to it, you know, to the misses or something. And I'll

say on our home in 10 minutes and they will shout out some rude word to add on to the

end of the message. So that it sends it. I won't say what it is, but you can imagine

the type of thing that will be home in 10 minutes.

That's very good. Well, it's not infallible. Is it really?

It's pros and cons, isn't it? I think it's getting better. I have to say, in fact,

talking about voice control, I was in the MGS six also this week. So that's the other thing

I've been driving. You can also check out the video of that because Nikki has been

out driving that. So yeah, go and look at the video because it's quite an interesting,

it's one of those, it's quite an unassuming car. It's exactly what you expect it to be,

but I suspect it's going to be quite popular because I mean, it's just a bigger electric MG,

isn't it? So you've got range of, you know, around about 301 to just under 330 miles,

depending on which powertrain you go for. It's fine. It's just fine. It's quite big.

It's comfy. I think MG has done well with its interior quality as well. So inevitably,

the S6 is very similar to the MG S5, isn't it? Do we think that Audi has got any

thoughts on the fact that MG is calling its cars S5 and S6, or is this because they've

called it the MG S5 and MG S6? I suppose they've avoided that particular pitfall.

Yes, I suppose they have. There was an S4 once that had to be changed. You know how

Alfa Romeo had to change the name of the junior because it was the Milano, wasn't it?

And then they had to change it to the junior because it's not made in Italy.

Yeah. Well, do you remember the Volvo S40, which was a thing in the late 90s? That one

out was the S4 originally. And you got the press picture of the S4, and then Audi,

Audi's listeners had a knock on the door in Sweden and said, I think not.

Okay, I'm going to get the S40 there. Oh no. I fear that without our esteemed leader,

we're wandering dangerously into kind of old car territory here. You and I really like our old

cars. We're like, no. Anyway, the MG S6, it's very fine. It's a very fine car and it's decent value.

But I was driving it and thinking mostly about the Citroen EC5 because, and I think we're going

to talk a bit more about this in a second, right? So the Grant, this EC5, the long-range one,

as we've mentioned, that gets the full Grant, is unbelievable value for that kind of range.

It's a really nice car as well, the EC5. I drove that out in Denmark for a car of the year

thing and really like it, really like it. So yeah, so that's actually quite a bit cheaper than the MG

and goes quite a lot further. So I think MG might find that it's not quite the kind of default

good value EV that MG kind of was a few years ago really. There's a lot more competition now.

Well, if you remember the MG4 coming out, and it was 27 grand, which was the same price

as a Focus, anyone went, oh, this is amazing value. These are good value, but they don't have that

same, wow, do they about that? No. And I think I don't know whether that's partly because MG's

sort of gone up in desirability and also because it's got more rivals, haven't it? So I mean,

we've not even obviously, you know, you get a Leap Motor C10, which is even bigger than a

MG S6 for the same money, lots of kit, that kind of thing. So all the, you know,

well, Ginny drove that Geely, didn't she, the X5 recently? So that looks like good value, all of

that. So there's all kinds of new, new brands. It has to be said, lots of Chinese brands coming

in really good value. So I think MG is going to find the market tougher in the future, but

it's well established. People like the brand and the cars are good. So how, how are the safety

systems? I asked because MG, well, all the Chinese brands really, the safety systems have been

a bit enough to put people off. And MG says, oh, no, we worked on it. And they're now

much better. And they've done a lot of testing in the UK. So were they better? Was it good?

Yeah, I didn't find them too bad. I was driving, it was really cold and quite sort of damp. So

it was a bit slippery. And I did have the traction control kind of cut in a little bit

occasionally. But it wasn't too bad at all. I think there's plenty of, you know, legacy

manufacturers where you'd have the same thing. So I don't think MG could really be accused of

that as much as say, I mean, certainly speaking of LeapMoto, their assistance systems

in any car I've tried so far have been absolutely like really impossible to live with,

I would find them really difficult. So I think there are definitely manufacturers that are

worse. And I suspect MG has tried quite hard. I know that BYD has put a lot of effort into

trying to make its assistance systems a bit more kind of European to European tastes as well.

So because it's a thing, isn't it? In China, they don't, they quite like them being quite

intrusive or rather quite overbearing. So they like to have the safety assistance systems there.

It's a bit of a cultural thing. So yeah, so I think it's something that they're all working on.

But I didn't find it a problem in the MG S6. I thought they were all right, to be honest.

Well, maybe the work they've done has worked.

What have you been up to anyway, Tom? Well, I mentioned last week briefly that I've just

had a Citroen EC4 delivered, which is a car that we'd forgotten about. But I looked at it and

thought, that looks like the new Nissan Leaf for a start. And I drove it and thought, this is really

quite nice. And strange enough, I took my dad out, who's 88. And he looked around and we went down

the road. And he said, you know, he said, this is the nicest of the sensible cars you've brought

over that I've ever been in. It's the most comfortable. And I said, interesting, because

I was kind of thinking the same. And you know, I do, he's been in Bentley's and things that I've

taken over, but he just went, oh, you know, I could live with one of these. He's not going to,

because he's got lots of other silly cars. But yeah, he just thought it was lovely.

And I was thinking, this is quite nice. And I don't know why we've forgotten it.

No, I really like the EC4. Yeah, exactly. It's one of those cars, isn't it?

That it's I think it's just been forgotten because it was it was actually one of the earlier

of the Stalantis group kind of hatchbacks to arrive, wasn't it? And they facelifted it and made it,

you know, I did a long drive in an EC4, the saloon version, actually, a few years back.

And I got over five miles per kilowatt hour out of it. And that was it was fairly warm,

but I was on the motorways mostly. And I was really kind of, I was pushing for efficiency.

So I was making some compromises. I was still doing 65 ish and just kind of, you know,

pottering along. And it was really good. The efficiency on it was remarkable.

I wouldn't say you'd get that on an everyday basis. But if you try, you can actually squeeze

quite good efficiency. I think it looks quite smart. The EC4 is one of those. Yeah.

I was thinking about the Mustang Mach-E the other day, which I actually still quite like.

And everybody's another forgotten car. Yeah. Another forgotten. Yeah. Another

forgotten. I know it's the comfort isn't the Mustangs kind of sort of thing,

but I do like it a lot. It's a good car. What else have we forgotten about?

What electric cars we've forgotten about? Let us know in the comments if you think

we've forgotten about an electric car. It does happen.

Yes. Should we do some news? Have you got some news for us?

Well, yeah, talking of Leafs as we were briefly then. So finally, it's been officially approved

for the level one grant in the UK. So 3,750 quid off as we all knew was going to happen.

But we hadn't had confirmed prices. I think they just said below 33,000,

for the Leaf. And it's actually, well, including the grant, it's 32,249, which is all right.

That's good. Yeah. That's pretty good. That's for the shorter range one, though,

I assume, is it? So then is it? Well, it's a 300 and something miles in it,

isn't it, that range? So that's pretty good, isn't it?

Yeah. But I thought, well, that seems reasonable because in my head, I'm still

thinking about, you know, when courses were 38 grand, electric courses, but

that EC5 aircross that we were talking about, which looks great value next to the MG,

long range, after you've deducted the grant from that, it's 32,935. So there's 600 and

something quid in it. And the Citroen has a 420 mile range.

Yeah. That Citroen is pretty amazing.

I don't know. I haven't looked at the spec of it. I think it's the you exclamation mark is the trim

level of the Citroen. That's that price. And perhaps it's got wind up windows and

you know, no back seats or something, but it's, it can't be that bad. And that seems like

really good value. Do you think people at Nissan are going, oh,

yes, I agree. Actually, I think, I mean, I think, I think that EC5 aircross is probably the best value.

I mean, it's got to be the cheapest plus 400 mile range EV out there, hasn't it?

By some margin. So I think Citroen's done well with that. And I did drive it. And yes,

suppose it was a high spec one, but the you trim, I've driven you trim versions of

some of the other Citroens and they're fine. They're just straightforward cars.

And I don't mind that. So I think I think it's really good. So yeah, I think that's

a great deal. But yeah, as you say, Nissan might be a bit disappointed.

Yeah, I think also, once you've got a 400 mile plus range, people who haven't looked at electric cars

before go, hang on a minute, because at the moment, you know, you've got those people who say,

oh no, I go down and see my gran twice a year. And I need, and she's 300 miles away and say,

well, you can do it now in a car that costs just over 30 grand. So it kind of shoots their

argument down, hopefully. Yeah, I reckon that Citroen's going to be a big hit with,

yeah, company car users and retail buyers alike. I think I hope the Nissan does well,

because I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I really like the new leaf.

I think they've done a really good job on it. So, you know, it's kind of,

it's quite characterful in a peculiar way, actually. So I'm quite keen to have a go

in the UK and see how it does. But yeah, that's Citroen is quite hard to beat, isn't

it? Talking about big cars, we're talking about the another big MG. So we talked about the

S6 earlier, which is the pure electric car. Well, talking about news, MG has had,

it's actually another of its cars revealed by Euro NCAP. So they've revealed the crash

test ratings before the company has actually revealed the car. But this is the MG S9, which is,

drum roll please, a seven seat MG, finally, which is good. But it is only a plug-in hybrid.

It's not, to our knowledge, going to be available as a pure electric car. And we don't

know for sure. We haven't got any official line on that, but it is, I suspect it's just going to be

kind of a sort of quite long range plug-in hybrid. So that's going to arrive at stuff like the Peugeot

5008, Kia Sorento, that kind of thing. I hope they bring an electric one, because I do think,

I mean, the electric 5008s are fantastic, seven-seater. And I don't know why nobody

else is doing it. I know Mercedes has got the EQB, but it's much smaller. And other than that,

what is still really limited, the seven-seaters you can get, isn't it? It's Hyundai and

Kia, and they're much more expensive. Yeah. So do you think this replaces the MGHS, or does the HS

get replaced by the S6, do you think? No, I think this would go above the HS, because the HS is

only a five-seater, isn't it? So I reckon this is a bigger car, seven-seater. And yeah, so and

I mean, the HS was, it was in the top 10 best-selling cars, wasn't it, for quite a few

months this year. So I think that could be quite popular one. So yeah, there you go. So yeah,

Euro NCAP has once again revealed another MG, so that's all good. It is bizarre, isn't it?

Somebody would have a conversation, or perhaps it's some sneaky PR plan from them,

that this is how they're going to do it, get the headlines. But they think if they

send us a press release, we just go, yeah, whatever. Whereas if they think it's a mistake,

we go, haha. It was quite funny, because I was on the MG launch, I was on the S6 launch, and I

asked them, I was like, when are we going to get a seven-seater? And they were like, oh,

you might want to look at Euro NCAP. I was like, hey, what? So there you go. MG does have a slightly

strange operation, doesn't it, in that other manufacturers, we were talking about it this

morning in the meeting, other manufacturers will say, oh, look, here's a teaser shot

of a concept car. Here's a concept car. Here you can come and look around the concept

car. You can drive the concept car a few feet, then the production car comes out and goes through

the whole thing again for months and months and months. And MG just, you get an invite and saying,

yeah, come and try the new car in the Cotswolds next week. Next week, yeah.

I know. Yeah, it's an amazing thing, isn't it?

That's bizarre. Yeah. Anyway, talking of successful electric cars, the Ford Puma,

Gen E, which is, of course, another car which gets the full 3,750-pound grant and was another

surprise for us that it was going to be in there, has sold out. You can't get one till May,

which isn't terribly surprising because there were some amazingly steels on that

when it was announced that it was going to get the grant. And they put it onto motability,

so at very preferential rates. So it was kind of the same price on motability as something

like a dacha spring. So unsurprisingly, they've all gone, although you would expect them to

perhaps manage the demand a little better. But that's great news. And it also, I think,

means that there's a new tranche of small electric SUVs from the likes of Volkswagen and

Cooper and Skoda that are coming. And hopefully they'll do well too and shows that if you

get the pricing right on these things, they're going to sell electric cars.

Well, I mean, can I just say, I think probably for all of us, but about time two with Volkswagen

and Cooper and all the rest of it, it feels like they're a generation behind a lot of

other brands with their small cars now. And talking about long lead launches with cars,

we've known about the ID too now for how long, like four years or something. It feels

like we've known about it forever. It's like, oh, come on, just launch it. Anyway, fingers

crossed, it will be good. So another car that we didn't really know much about until actually,

Ginny is out in LA as we speak, I think, flying back and she's been out. She's sort of found out

about the Jeep Recon. The new Jeep Recon has been announced in America now. I will add this,

I don't think it's coming to the UK. It certainly hasn't been confirmed for it. And

I would be very surprised if Jeep brought it. But this is Jeep's first electric car, which

has been properly trail rated. So you know, they do the sort of proper hardcore off-roading test that

only Jeep does. And they've done that in the electric Recon. And I have to say, another slightly

niche claim. Apparently, this is the first electric four by four that has removable doors.

So I don't know how important that is to you, but maybe.

I think you can remove any door from an electric car if you've got a socket set.

Well, precisely that. You've got that. Yeah, exactly. So 650 horsepower, this thing has got.

And it will do 0-60 in 3.6 seconds, which is so irrelevant to an off-roader. It's unbelievable.

But I'm sure, I mean, obviously 841 Newton meters of torque will be useful

on the mountains and when you're rock crawling and stuff. It's a funny one,

isn't it? So 250 mile range. It's not going to be cheap. I suppose it's quite cool, isn't it,

in its own way that they've got this kind of really heavy duty hardcore off-roader.

I don't know. I have to see how it does in America. I can't see it coming to the UK,

but it's a cool looking thing. You should check out the news story on the website,

because it is quite cool. How do you feel about the name? Because Recon, whenever I think of

it, means like a reconditioned engine, or if you're buying a used iPhone, it's like, oh,

it's a Recon. See, I think maybe I have read too many kind of military history books in my time,

but to my mind, it does actually mean reconnaissance. So it's...

You've never had to buy anything secondhand, have you? We know.

You wouldn't know about such things.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. The Rubicon Trail, that's the name. I knew I'd forgotten what it was called.

There you go. It's the Rubicon Trail, isn't it, that they do, and only they test all of their

four by fours on that. So this has been all trail rated up there. And I don't know how...

I don't mind the name Recon. It feels very cheap to me. But as you say, if to you it means

a reconditioned engine, then maybe it's not so ideal. I suspect that not everybody's mind

immediately goes to kind of scrap merchants and what random old bargains they've got in their

garage that need a new gearbox at this particular time or something.

But sort of going back to the old cars again, going back to old cars again, it used to be the

reconditioned engines. They used to like, used to get gold seal engines and they used to just

be painted completely gold before they went into it. So that's how you'd open up the bonnet

so it's had a new engine. Oh, I feel old. You don't get that with electric cars, do you?

Well, talking bargains, shall I do my bargains of the week?

I think you should, definitely. Yeah. Well, to buy used, sort of a BYD dolphin,

another car that's kind of fallen off the radar just because it's,

you know, it's a couple of years old, so therefore no reason. If it's not class leading,

we don't tend to put it against anything else, do we? But 18999 with 12,000 miles and a year old.

Now, I think they were kind of 30 new. So that's a good old chunk off, isn't it?

Now, these are bigger than you think they are, aren't they? This is one of being one of these

things. It tends to make its car slightly bigger than you kind of think. So the

dolphin, this isn't the dolphin surf, which is a different model. The dolphin is actually

bigger than an E2-08, isn't it? It's almost the size of an E3-08. It's quite a sort of,

it's kind of in between the two. So, I mean, it's quite a spacious car for the money,

but I have to say there's a lot of other things I would have over it.

Yeah, I think that there were some good lease deals. The lease deals now aren't quite

so keen on BYDs. So it's like, why would you? Oh, mind of me if the old, well the

generation one Vauxhall Mareeva, the way it looks and kind of inside with its

practicality and stuff. So I think it's a perfectly nice car, but as you say,

there are cheaper things. But used, 19 grand, not bad. It starts to look a bit more attractive,

doesn't it? Yeah, I think the other thing is BYD might have scuppered the dolphin itself with the

dolphin surf because it's a much cheaper car. I know the range isn't quite as good,

but it's kind of cooler, isn't it? Because the dolphin surf looks like a kind of tiny

Lamborghini. So it's sort of, it's got that, it's kind of got a bit more to it, I think.

But so I reckon there's quite a lot of people just going for the dolphin surf,

which is also these days, I think that's already under, that's under 200 quid a month

easily on leasing, isn't it? I think the smaller one. So I wonder, I wonder if dolphin sales aren't

also being sabotaged by the dolphin surf at the moment. But nonetheless, good price for a nearly

new car, isn't it? So are you due an eye test at all? Looks like a small Lamborghini.

It does. It does. If you made, I know I stand by this statement and they even do it in like

the fluorescent yellow. Honestly, look at it and think about what say a Lamborghini Mercilago

would look like if you kind of reshaped it or squeezed it and made it into a tiny hatchback.

I'm telling you, it's a tiny electric Lamborghini. And just to prevent any lawsuits at this point,

I will add that Lamborghini has absolutely nothing to do with the BYD dolphins.

These are all my own opinions. But anyway, the dolphin, yeah, it's an all right car,

isn't it? And it's quite spacious and it'll be a good run around for that price. So not bad.

Leasing deals, there's still, I've mentioned this three weeks in a row just because it's so good,

although it has gone a little more expensive. It's like £4 more expensive a month

this week than it was last week. So the MG S5, they're really cheap.

So grab one of those while you still can. But also another forgotten electric car,

the IONIQ 5. I'm the IONIQ 5. I haven't forgotten it. I still love the IONIQ 5.

Yeah, it is a nice looking car, isn't it? And big. What did Mike actually

went out and bought one with his own money? I can't remember if he didn't like about it.

I think the 12 volt batteries kept going, didn't it? Yeah, they had an issue with that,

didn't they? And I think the real world range wasn't quite what he'd hoped as well. I think

the efficiency was not as good as he'd hoped. But still a brilliant car. I would buy an IONIQ 5.

I would put my own money into it and run it. If I were going out tomorrow to buy an electric family

car, that would be still on my shortlist. I really like it. It just looks fantastic.

And it's big and nice. And I just really like it. Well, you can have one for £363 a month

for on a four year deal as well, which is pretty good. Without wishing to be predictable

here. How much is a Volkswagen ID 7? Because I'd probably have that over a high in the IONIQ 5.

That's because I'm weirdly obsessed with it. The swear jar should be for ID 7.

Do you need to put some money in when she mentions an ENYAC? And I need to do it when I mention an

ID 7, I know. There has been some swear jar suggestions actually from the listeners. David

Klab on 1138 says the swear jar suggestions should be us mentioning gloss black fingerprints,

you know, on the... Smudgy finger marks on the gloss black plastics. Yeah, absolutely.

It's a very motoring journalist sort of car reviewer type thing to say, isn't it? I know.

Yes, I agree. That probably is a good one for the swear jar.

Yeah, other comments. Last week I was talking about MG and how it had got to 100,000

electric car sales in the UK. And it was one of only five car makers to do it.

And we couldn't work out what the final of the four was. And I now know what he's asked at

chat from MG. Thank you, David. But he did tease me with it and kept on saying, no,

I had to guess, you see. So lots of the listeners guessed the same as I did,

which was that it was Nissan. And it's not... Nissan is nowhere near. And it's not the Koreans,

they're nowhere near either. So the final one, so, well, the full lowdown is... Do you want to...

Do you want to run three of them? I'm guessing to hang on. So I don't know about this. So this is...

So the manufacturers that have sold 100,000 electric cars in the UK

overall over the whole life, you know, since they've been selling EVs in the UK, right?

So obviously Tesla, MG, probably Volkswagen. Volkswagen is the one that we didn't have last week.

Yes. Yeah. There you go. There you go. Volkswagen and... Oh, I don't know. I would...

Has Audi... No, probably not Audi. Same country. It's going to be... It's BMW,

isn't it? It's got to be BMW. BMW, yeah. I wonder what is big... Is the i3 still...

It's the original i3, I mean, obviously, still it's big. I suppose they had a long time of selling i3s

and then they've got all the new ones as well, haven't they? Yeah. God, I still love the i3.

It's such a great thing, isn't it? And the i4. Another forgotten electric car, the i4. Great

thing, isn't it? The i4, which is a fantastic car. Have you seen how expensive it is compared

to a Tesla, though? It's outrageously expensive. I think I looked not long ago and it was about

60 grand enough. I was like, it's crazy. Yeah. You can have one in green and it's a lovely car.

Really nice to drive and I really like them, but it's a lot to ask, isn't it? So yeah,

it's a shame, though, because I'd like to see more. You do see i4s around. I reckon company

cars, they do quite a good turnover on company cars because they're lovely things. Really nice.

Anyway, you haven't got the fifth one. Oh, also German. Hang on. Volkswagen, BMW, Tesla and MG.

There's a fifth one. Oh, no. A fifth one. Skoda? No, well, that's not German, is it technically?

Shall I give you a ring and tell you? Shall I give you a ring or maybe four rings? Correct.

Is it Audi? Really? Oh, I guess I nearly guessed Audi earlier. Because I know the

Q4's done really well, isn't it? So there you go. Oh, fair enough. Well,

yeah, it's not necessarily the brands you would have thought, is it? No, it's not.

I think I probably would have taken a stab at Nissan given the success of the leave.

And also round. Oh, yes. But I think they had a long time of not really doing anything,

didn't they? So yeah, quite sadly. Yeah. So comments and questions. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So Mika Davis 660 agrees with me about the EC4. I used to own a Citroen EC4 and

really loved it. The only negative for the Citroen app, it was basically utterly useless.

There's a car for driving and not being an app. We drove it and loved it.

Yeah, I can believe that. Right. Martin Gil 6996. Yes, exactly. Can you explain why the new Jeep

Avenger 4XE, actually four-wheel drive, is a hybrid? Is it because of range worries?

That is a good question. I think it's probably, yeah, I think it's probably partly to do with

efficiency. And I think it might also be to do with customer demand. I'm not sure. I think

probably the Avenger is, because they can have four-wheel drive on that platform.

Can't they? I'm sure they can. Well, it's the second-gen ECMP platform, isn't it? So yeah,

I assume that it's just easier for them to put a small electric motor on the back wheels and to

have the petrol motor running the front. What was the first car to have? I think it's probably

customer demand. Yeah. What was the first car to have? Petrol motor on the front and

electric motor on the back without a connection between them? Come on, Vicki. Come on.

Oh, well, would it be the i3 range extender? No? No. Long time before that, I take it.

Oh, it's not the Volt, is it? The Vauxhall Ampere and Chevy Volt? No, because they did have

their petrol engines. See, this is more like a pub quiz than a podcast. Now, Tom, what are we

doing? What's going on? And also, I've lapsed into crap old cars again, because it was in the

sand. Exactly. I'm trying very hard to keep you on course here with all the EV chats.

Go on. What is it? What rubbish old car is it? It was the K11 Nissan Micro and the Nissan Note,

but only in Japan. It's only sold in Japan, but it was really clever. It had an electric motor on

the back wheels, made it four-wheel drive. So you didn't need all the prop shafts and everything

else that the four-wheel drive cars did. Tom, this is fascinating if you're a horrible,

horrible car geek like you and I. But I have to say, I think we might have strayed well off

quarter, but I'm impressed at the car knowledge. I am impressed. Right. Sean Powell? Sean Powell?

The Mocha GSE. Oh, yes, we were talking about the Mocha GSE, but we should definitely be offering

more for the price point, considering you get so much more powerful MG for X-Power for

essentially the same price. Now, MG for X-Power, discuss. I mean, why would you? I just don't

because it's not actually any more fun to drive than the standard MG for, which is I would add

actually quite fun to drive. So I don't think, if anything, I sort of think they should probably

do a four-wheel drive MG for that's not as powerful. That's just for more for kind of like

all weatherpiece of mind and just general kind of usability rather than the performance,

because I think people would really like that, especially in the UK and Europe.

But I just think the X-Power is a bit, it's a, and I'm not, you know, I'm not averse to

performance CVs. I love it, but I just find the X-Power not fun enough to justify the performance

or the price over the other models really. I did think it felt a bit like, you know,

you need to try a car like an old-fashioned petrol car that somebody's got, it's a turbo

and I've upped the boost and it's now 500 horsepower and it was originally like 180.

And it just feels a bit

unconsolidated, so it wasn't meant to happen. It feels like that a bit with the X-Power.

And it always had a slight vibration at 70 miles an hour, which was really annoying.

And they all do that, sir. It is just a trait of the car that somebody's

doing with the balancing of the drive shaft or something on the front wheels. But

you just, you're going at 17, you think, have I got a flat tyre? Have I got a stone

in the tyre or something? And then you go on a four and find out they all do that, sir.

This is, yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? But it's really common with car manufacturers at the

moment because there's such a trend for producing cars that do 0-62 in

sub four seconds or something insane without really kind of making the car a particularly

good driver's car. And I think we really need to, you know, I think we've said it so many

times, but I will, this is the hill I will die on. It's so unnecessary and it doesn't actually

make the car any better. So I was doing updating the review on the Zika 7X because I drove that

not long ago for a European car of the year thing as well. And I drove the top top range version

of that. So this is another Chinese brand that's coming to the UK 2027 is the intention.

The 7X is the model Y rival and the top spec all wheel drive one. It's the only model you can

get all wheel drive on. And that will do 0-62 in three and a half seconds basically.

But it's really soft. So it feels so you kind of you accelerate hard and you're kind of

pointing at the sky because the whole car, you know, you get all this kind of,

it's all, it's quite wallowy and cushy and I like that in a car. I don't need it to do 0-62

in three and a half seconds. So I don't know whether we need to blame Tesla for this as well as

lots of other things for this sort of trend of making EVs very powerful. And I know that you

can do it without affecting efficiency too much because electric motors kind of work like that.

So you can sort of dial them up without it eating into efficiency too much. But I still

think that perhaps some manufacturers need to be reminded that all wheel drive can be good

without the performance. You don't need that. You need, if you've got that much performance, you

need bigger tyres and bigger tyres are less efficient. And also you need bigger brakes and

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, which just add to the weight and reduce efficiency. So

I love a fast EV, but I mean, you know, give me an Ioniq 5N or something that's designed

to be a performance EV rather than something that's a family SUV that just is unnecessarily fast,

really. But anyway, it's a bit of a trend, isn't it? So that's something else. Anyway,

you can tell us in the comments, are you a fan? Would you buy, you know, the model,

you drove the Model Y performance not long ago, didn't you? It was much the same vein.

So there's clearly a demand for it. So maybe you and I are just out of date.

And talking of Tesla's, we'll sort of, Bluefish 2303 says Ford's Blue Cruise,

which we were talking about last week, which is their self-driving tech, which is licensed for

the UK now, and is going on to the Puma Gen E, among other things. And, you know, you think,

oh, well, great, this is going to be mass market. And we were talking about it last week. And

he's pointed out that it's a subscription model. So you have to pay 17.99 a month if you want

it. Now, in comparison to Tesla, who charge you what, between six and eight grand, if you

want their full self-driving. And then if you've got that on a three, three year lease or PCP deal,

then you hand the car back. That's, that sounds like a bargain. But I can still,

I can still see some people just going, don't need that. I just think, I don't know, maybe

at risk of sounding perhaps, I don't know, maybe again, this is maybe it's another

generational thing. Maybe it's maybe kind of, I just don't want any, I don't want loads of

subscriptions. I don't want to buy a subscription for something to go on my car.

And so that would kind of annoy me more than just having an upfront question of,

do you want to pay six grand for this? Or do you not? I'd kind of just rather have that decision.

Still, it's optional, isn't it? So you can just say no to the subscription. But

so I suppose by comparison to Tesla, yes, good value, but I still wouldn't do it myself.

I don't know. The interesting thing would be if you can take out subscription, it would only be

from month to month. If you were doing something like, well, I'm driving down to South of France on

holiday and French roads, French auto routes are made for cruise control. They're almost unbearable

without cruise control because it's quiet traffic and they're long and straight. And so

it would be great there. And if you could just say, well, I'm going to France on holiday,

I'm going to take out a month subscription to it. That would be interesting, but I'm not sure that

would work for Ford. Now that is a very good idea that I could get on board with. I think that is

actually, that's quite an interesting one. I think that's good. And also maybe you could,

well, I was going to say, maybe you could have a similar idea in terms of having a kind of,

if you were lending your car to your kids or something and you wanted it to have

sort of learn a driver mode. Ford did a key, didn't they? Where they had that?

So you did a different key than the car had. I think that's not a bad idea. If it was a

role in contract, then maybe. But yeah, I just find the whole idea of having to subscribe to

a functioning car, frustrating person. I do it for charging apps. So you know some of these

ones they will say, right, when you pay $8.99 a month and you get 30% off. If I'm doing a

long journey or a couple of long journeys, I'll think, well, how much am I going to charge

out in the public? Am I going to save more than $8.99 by having the 30% off? I'll do it for one month.

And then, but then I, again, I am very tight. Tight as two coats of paint, as Mike would say.

So that's the type of thing I do. You said it, Tom. I mean, that's fair enough. I think,

I admire your, the effort you put into that kind of thing, because I wouldn't have the foresight

or the, or I wouldn't put the energy in, frankly. But yeah, it's a good idea if you, if you

can go over it. It's a good idea. Talking of being tight. I did some sums the other day. On the

Mocha GSE, one of the options is to have Goodyear tyres rather than Michelin tyres.

It's a hundred pounds option and it gives you eight miles more range.

And you think, well, that's fine. You know, if I was, if I ran out of charge eight miles

from home, I'd feel quite silly if I'd just had the Michelin. But I thought, well, how much,

how long would it take to recoup the cost, the hundred pounds over the course of the car if you

were charging at home? Like for those extra miles, that extra efficiency. And I did some very rough

calculations. So if I'm wrong, then somebody please tell me. But I reckon if you were charging at

like the normal daytime rate, it would take around 40,000 miles before you got your 100 quid back.

But if you're charging overnight at cheap rate, it would take 120,000 miles before you got your

money back. So obviously, if you're on, if you're having to public charge, it's going to be less

than that. But I thought, I'd stick with the Michelin. Yeah, I think I would as well. I

suspect being a cynic, perhaps they've just done that so they can have in the technical

specifications range up to 209 miles, which sounds a lot better than 201.

Yeah. Exactly. I think it's quite interesting, though, isn't it? I can't think of another car

where you had optional tires. There probably have been. I'm sure you know, Tom, I'm sure you've

got an encyclopedic kind of a catalogue of all the cars that have ever been offered with optional,

optional sort of different tires. But they're having some horses, haven't they? I think that had

different anyway. Anyway, we're going off on a tangent again. I think we should close with.

Yes, we should. I've got one more because I just thought this was great. I saw this.

So at Mark Klinger, Klinger 7074, I've just bought a new Green High Endi Insta for 21,779 pounds,

including delivery. I thought that was a good deal. I think that's a good deal, too. I don't

know whether that's the shorter range one or not, but I'll tell you what, take that with your

BYD Dolphin Surf. I'd have an Insta Rover over a Dolphin Surf any day. That's a great car.

Love the Insta in green, too. I bet that's lovely. So I think that's a good buy.

Definitely. Talking of good buys, we should bring this into a close.

Well, I think we've done the traditional sort of, what are we at now, sort of 45-minute

half hour podcast, aren't we? Something like that.

It's all good. Right. Well, see you next time. And let's know if you have any buying questions.

Absolutely. See you later. Bye. Bye.

Episode 93: The future e208, forgotten EVs, and the grant punch-up

About this episode

Peugeot 208

Mercedes-Benz EQB

MG4 Electric Mg

Audi S5

Audi S6

Alfa Romeo Milano

Volvo S40

Chevrolet C10

BMW X5

C10 Leapmoto

C4 Ec4

Nissan Leaf

Ford Mustang

Kia Sorento

Peugeot 5008

Ford Puma

Jeep Recon

Wrangler Rubicon

Hyundai Ioniq 5

Volkswagen Id

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BMW i3

BMW i3s

Dodge Avenger

Chevrolet Volt

Zeekr Zika 7X

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