Episode 95: ALLOY MAG

Hey, hey, what's up guys? Oh, we got Fern on the call. Let's go. How are you, man?

Oh, I think I've got to I gotta do some audio stuff here. Yeah, I'm recording.

Always. Hello. It's good to see your faces, man. Absolutely. Has it been half a year? Is

that real and true and happening? That's fucking insane. I can't believe it's November.

Yeah, it's weird. It's weird. But yeah, nonetheless, good to see you guys. So yeah.

Yeah. Congratulations and and kudos for all the incredible fucking work. Thank you and looking

so amazing. Oh, it looks sick. It wasn't that much work, right, Fern? I think kind of threw it

through it together kind of last minute. Like, oh, wait, we did say October, right? So we better

just do something else. We did say October and we kept to October, right? Right? Yeah. I think

we could have really gone a week or two earlier if we would have pushed, but yeah. I mean, we had a

bunch of stuff in there, but it was a lot of it was just trying to figure out editing, both from

the writing and illustration side of like, how do we do this? Yeah, we got there. It was fun and,

you know, it continues to be fun. It's just like, you know, trying to refine almost a little bit

day by day, figure out the path and make stuff that is just interesting to us, you know? So yeah.

Maybe before we go any further with it, because I immediately have like a million follow up

questions, we should just introduce the pod and say, oh, wow, look at you, Peter. Oh my god,

I'm taking initiatives. I'm on top of shit today, man. We're tired. We're back. We're tired. The car

podcast for people who understand that cars are bad, man. He's like about to spit his...

Peter goes, I'm on top of it and immediately...

On top. Well, hey, you know, you gotta set your expectations at a reasonable level here.

Yeah. Anyway, Rory Carroll, Matthew Riley, me, Peter Hughes, and we're joined

today by Fernando Pino. Is it Pino or Pino? Do you go with the... Pino, yeah.

Cool. Pino, okay. Pino. That's our man. And who's back with us, joined us earlier this summer after

our routine audit at Watkins Glen together. But yeah, we're here today to talk about

the launch of Alloy, Alloy Magazine, the website of the Internet Magazine.

Yeah. We've never actually talked about that minor confusing factor, Rory.

I feel like it's just kind of... It's kind of correct in the effort, but not the physically

thing. Well, let's be honest, the alloy.com, you are all of us not available, and alloymag.com was

available. So there we go. That's right. There you go. Yeah. Made the decision for us.

Did you guys know the etymology of the word magazine originally comes from the Arabic word

for a storehouse? And so there's really nothing about paper involved. Oh, there you go. In French,

magazine is store. So like... There you go. Yeah. And most of the languages, yeah. I don't know how it

became the name of a paper product. That is interesting. Well, it was a... I mean, I guess in

the years of where media was dominated by print, magazine was a storehouse for period... I mean,

it was kind of synonymous with a periodical. But it was like a periodical storehouse of

information and entertainment. I will say that... Continues to be, just minus the print. The effort

in what we're doing feels like very editorial-based. So it doesn't... Those two things in my mind are

still connected somehow, even though it's not like an actual physical magazine. But maybe one day,

we will. Yeah. I think the approach, like you said, it's like... The website is something...

Typically a blog, you just put up a post in kind of a format. It's like you're filling out text boxes

effectively. But the fact that everything is being laid out individually story by story is a more

magazine approach. And I think the workflow that we're getting into now is kind of more

magazine-like, but also very fast. Like the magazine layout would take days and days to do,

and like Fern's doing layouts in a half an hour to an hour,

which each individual layout taking half an hour to an hour. Some take much longer, but

it is like a weirdly hybrid flow that we're in right now. But I want a large printing press behind

me that just doesn't work, but just kind of like... It's always like a pressure on it. It's sort of how

it feels. It seems like you could... That there probably are those, but you could probably get

one. Andy's got a huge working printing press in the factory in Detroit, which it's big enough you

can print full-size posters. It's enormous. It's the size of a semi, and it's two lines.

This is Andy, the hoarder of many things. Former hoarder.

Former hoarder. Yeah, somewhat reformed. He does have a printing press. I don't know. Let's see this

open and shut case. Yeah. He got rid of a bunch of stuff and still has a print press in the factory.

It's good. You get it downsized somewhere. You got to be compromise.

Yeah, you got to start somewhere. Is it operational, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's been...

It is. Yeah, yeah. It's sweet. We should do something. We should. Is it like a four color?

You're going to get me wondering what the... I don't know what kind of press it, but you can print,

yes, you can print posters and t-shirts and anything that is screen printed, I think.

Let's see. Oh, okay. So it's like a screen print. Oh, no. Sorry. It's not a screen print. What's the

other one? It's like sort of the... With the grass? Oh, the one with the stuff. Like an actual press,

right? Yeah, let me... Okay, let's see. Here's the video. New test print offer for printing

line at the factory. We restored some of the printing equipment to make our own art prints.

The doggy nose thing? Oh, wait. He's printing on adhesive vinyl. Huge sticker. Six colors of UV ink.

I don't know. Yeah, it looks like... So what would that be? It's printing on vinyl, so is that a...

I mean, I guess technically you can kind of print on anything. Yeah. Okay, so... But I don't know.

I feel like we're getting sidetracked. Well, this will happen.

It's an MR80 flat stack. Peter's calling up his old days in the 90s having to work in

one million different print-based jobs. Well, I never... I mean, I did pre-press stuff. I never

actually worked in a print shop. So I kind of... My experience kind of ended at the

outputting the... And I didn't even do the outputting. I mean, I was in an office adjacent to

the outputting and I hung out with those guys when they smoked cigarettes. We're actually running into

a classic internet problem right now where we're trying to find a piece of obscure printing equipment

and the entirety of the first couple pages of results are just spamming me trying to sell

me a printer on Google. It's like, oh, you need a new printer. Here's an Epson desktop

printer for $80. You can pick it up today at the Walmart. Really? True. Well, maybe that's...

I mean, the thing that strikes me about Alloy, that most immediately strikes me about it, just

both the experience of reading it, perusing it, but also just kind of like stepping back and

thinking about it conceptually and just knowing what I know from having heard you guys talk about it

and your ideas for it, is... I mean, we are all kind of intimately familiar with both the phrase

and the experience of the end-shedification of everything, the Cory Doctorow thing that

he's kind of hung his hat on. I feel like Alloy feels to me, almost like the best way to explain

it to somebody coming into it, is this is a first step in the process that has to happen

of be shit-ifying the world.

I'm so high of pressure. Is that accurate? I mean, not to say that it's going to

accomplish it on itself, but I feel like we have to just start pushing back and just making stuff

that works against that process.

Yeah, I think that is like the... It's funny because early on with this,

I had gotten this instruction or offer or whatever to pitch this site to a new...

It's other company, I think we talked about this last time. They are in an auto-adjacent

business and it was like, hey, this is an opportunity to build something that doesn't

really have to make a ton of money and can do a bunch of marketing messaging things for us

on the side or in the background. We can use it to meet marketers and all this other stuff.

As we were developing it, it initially was going to be just a pure program that kind of like,

what if Jalopnik, but better, would have a different site, but better.

Fern really started... I guess I started from my assumptions of this is how websites work

and this is what the business is. Fern really started interrogating those questions,

like not coming from publishing and saying, okay, why is it like that? Why does it have

to be like that? Why is it like that? That's what led us down the path of the things are bad

for a reason. These sites are struggling financially and some of them are struggling

to kind of define their legs editorially for a reason and the reason is the model and it's

like structural. I think it's funny, it took Fern to push me in that direction where it's like,

you know, my entire life outside of this business and philosophically is like trying

to find the structural causes for any given issue. I remember the initial discussion was like,

I was like, where are we going to put the banner ads on the site? And you were like,

I've been looking at it and it, they're ugly, it sucks. He's like, do we have to do that? And

I was like, yeah, of course you have to do like the stable stakes and he's like, okay, but why?

And then that's where, yeah. Delightful. I did actually make a version with banner ads and

right, I even, yeah, like I was actually trying to find the first couple iterations to show you guys

because the first one was so out of left field that I don't think, it's kind of funny

thinking about it now, like where we ended up, but there was a version of Ally with banners and

every conversation that we had was, it just kept being like, how do we get out of this?

Were you just like grabbing banner ads off of other sites and just like

Yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Slapping them off. I mean, I don't know if you've seen them, but they're free. They're everywhere.

The thing is, there are sites now, I mean, I look at lots of, you know, and just like car sites

and if, like I forget which one it was the other day, like maybe it was motor one that like

now isn't letting me use an ad blocker.

Oh my God.

Oh, really?

Because I don't, you know, I don't look at anything without, you know, that's not

ad blocked, right?

Because I can't, I can't fucking take it.

And it's just like, oh, okay, well, I guess I'm just not going to look at this website anymore

because it's mostly all just fucking garbage anyways.

It's all just like posting like TikToks or whatever.

And it's like, I don't, I don't need to sift through all of that and have just like

shit flashing in my face.

It's like, it's not worth it to me.

Yeah, it's funny because I didn't even think, I didn't even think about

having banner ads on this site and I was like, oh yeah, like how do we make money?

But I haven't seen a banner ad in a long time because I've had

Yeah, that's the thing.

It's like when you actually do sit, it's just like, I had to, we had to just,

I was like, friend, you got to turn your ad block off and go to some of these sites.

And he was like, oh my God.

Yeah, it's just a nightmare, man.

Yeah, like I was like, I hadn't seen any of them on any of the other car sites.

And, and then I turned it on and I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

Like you can't, you can't read, you can't scroll.

Like you got to read.

No, I mean, it's utterly, utterly unusable.

You can't do it.

But yeah.

So, so, so what, I mean, so, so how did you got, how did you find a way around that?

Well, in, in that's like the question, right?

Like I think we're still looking.

Yeah, no, we have an idea and I think like it's been very well received.

I think like there's, there's a bunch of kind of like kind of problems that,

that kind of all like coalesce or kind of like work together to make a lot of the sites bad.

And I think like we're trying to address a bunch of them kind of like in the model.

So I think like our first and foremost thing is this memberships and merch and live events stuff.

I think like those are three areas that other sites kind of do but have not done

you know, to, to like a, haven't pushed it super far.

I think like, you know, like, yeah.

And I think like, you know, road and track and, and Hearst does some really good live

events stuff.

They do some tours and I think all that stuff is kind of like aspirational for us,

like, like to get to that point.

I think we can do better merch than most of the sites.

I think like that's kind of an afterthought to everybody except like the former Hoonigan iteration.

Yeah, that was exactly what I just thought of when you said that.

It was, yeah, just like actually make stuff cool that people want.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a crazy concept.

And then the, but I think like that, that stuff and then obviously the membership thing is like,

I think it'd be kind of like our backbone is and kind of gives us a measure of like independence.

Those things are super important.

I think there's also like, there are also ways to kind of build that into more of a robust

like member organization as far as like what you get for signing up and like what kind of

experiences you get.

Like, can we organize track days for you?

Can we like get you on some of the kind of experiences that like we get to do kind of

as automotive journalists or just like more sicko brand enthusiasts than the average person?

I think like that stuff gets really interesting as far as like deepening that

relationship between us and our readers.

And then we are also offering like this quarterly sponsorship thing, which is like

basically instead of running ads in the site, an automaker or whoever can buy out

a sponsorship for an entire quarter.

And then we're providing them a bunch of like creative services stuff.

In exchange.

So I think like we act kind of and when I say we, I mean me and Fern act a little bit as they're

kind of like a supplement to their agency to tell a specific story or to like

to build a specific explanation for like, you know, the great example is like

a new a new model or a new technology or whatever that is like because social media or

regular media or whatever is so is so hard to control now.

And this is like a long progression, but Maddie is like an edit and a half.

I mean, this is exactly what I've been wondering about for the last six months.

Like like the actual mechanics of, I mean, I got the kind of the idea and the concept that

this is perfect.

So I think it was fuzzy.

The sponsorship thing is like 10 years ago, if you were releasing a new car or a new technology,

like, okay, we're going to do our first plug in hybrid or whatever, there are a bunch of

different ways to kind of explain to internal, you know, your internal people, but also like

the public, like what that means, why you're doing it, how it's done, how it all works.

Because of the way the internet has kind of evolved over the last 10 years, it's really

hard to tell those more complicated stories that require like some explanation now.

So like, you know, you used to be able to put on your YouTube channel or on Instagram or whatever,

like, here's kind of the origin.

This is like where we're starting with this project.

This is like how it was developed.

This is how it'll go to market.

Like this is how it will benefit your life.

Like kind of in this chronological like the campaign-y type way.

Like you used to be able to do that in magazines.

Like you used to be able to do a year by year's worth of placements in a magazine until like

this longer story about, you know, the new Cadillacs and why they're good and all that stuff.

But like the, but obviously the magazine opportunities are fairly limited these days.

They're just not a lot of them out there and they're not as widely read as they used to be.

So you would push that to social, to YouTube and Instagram and stuff.

But because of the way all that content is served now, you have no control over how readers encounter

it. So like in most cases, you're getting stuff completely out of order or like in the order

that the algorithm wants you to see it versus like in the order that it makes sense as a story.

So our pitch is like we have a, I think in Fern and our kind of larger creative network,

a really, really good group of people who can tell these kinds of like more nuanced,

longer, harder to explain stories in a really visually interesting way.

And then, you know, we can kind of get in and get out.

So I think like the other way to do that is like Porsche has like type seven, which is like

this really incredible kind of Instagram magazine that like has a bunch of like print

and digit like website extensions. And it all is kind of like there to tell these like bigger

Porsche stories in a, you know, editorial way that's like not an ad and not like

not, you know, doesn't require people to go to the Porsche site to read it.

But obviously like that's a multi-year, multi-million dollar investment

that runs in the background for Porsche all the time, whether they need it or not.

And this is like basically what if you could just buy that for a quarter? So like what if you could

basically have me and Fern explain some stuff to the public for you for a quarter.

So that's the pitch. And I think like-

And would that be like in the form of content on the site or would it be kind of

like separate or how does that work?

So obviously like there's an editorial part of the site that is totally independent

of this. This stuff does get distributed on the site as content. And then it also

belongs fully to the client. So like if you are Honda or whatever and you,

we design a bunch of artwork and video and all that stuff for you, you are free to take it and

then kind of repackage it and redeploy it or if you want to run out, if you want to run one of

our images as an ad in Car and Driver, that's totally fine with us. It's creative work that

that then belongs to them. So I think like, you know, there's obviously like some

considerations there. And I think like this is a sticky issue that just like to be totally

transparent that a lot of like outlets have been dealing with for 20 years, like this conversation

of like for, I mean, forever, I mean, forever, yeah, forever and I mean, automotive journalism,

it's always kind of straddled this, this, this very kind of fine line between,

between, you know, reporting journalism and, and marketing and advertising, you know, and, and,

and it's, you know, we could go back to it's always been this 2002, the

yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think, I think in our case, you know, in my situation

with this, the way I look at this is the average car site, the average car outlet,

you have at any given time, 20, 30 advertisers that are trying to get, you know, that your,

your team is trying to kind of line up behind the scenes. And there are all kinds of

very high level discussions about what those advertisers want from your publication.

That is the case in every, in every publisher in the country. I think like, our approach with

this is like, through kind of transparency, where it's like, here's the stuff that we're trying to

help an automaker with. And it's labeled like that on the site. And like, you don't have to

wonder what else is going on in the background. Like, you don't have to wonder like, who's going

to win the, the awards or who's going to like, are they here track day or whatever. It's, it's all

like, like I said, like, here's, here is this relationship for the quarter. And then also,

like, here's exactly what we're doing with them. Like, this is the stuff that we're making for them.

And like, I, I think the goal there is to kind of make that kind of stand alone

as stand on its own as, as like stories, like as like cool stuff, like some of the stuff

that Fern and I have like prototyped and that like, you know, Fern published that, that great

video that he did with. Yeah, my buddy, Marcio, who helped me in,

animated it. But like that, that video of the, the air valve is exactly like,

that's the kind of stuff where it's like, fascinating, super fun to watch. I don't know

maybe we can link it here, but it's like, it's a 30 second video, just explaining how this old

manual air valve works. And it's like, super cool, well illustrated. I don't think I saw that one.

I missed that one. It's really good. It's on Instagram, but it's like, that's the kind of

stuff that like, you know, you can kind of, you can kind of extrapolate that, you know,

out to like, to a modern automaker and like, what, what is cool about this specific piece of

technology or this specific car and like, what's interesting about it? And like, those are,

that's just like depth. You're not getting on most sites these days. I think like,

the hope is that it, you know, the model helps us be able to make more of those things and kind of

balance out the, the editorial approach, you know, because I think everybody wants to do those things.

I think people want to see them, but the model currently is that if you don't get eyeballs,

you're dead. So sure. Yeah. And I think like that's, that's a judgment.

You know, the difference point is like, that's a judgment that

certainly like at Jalopnik, like I can tell you our directive and kind of our incentive there was

like, you need to maximize page views. And like my approach there in that, to that was like, okay,

how do we maximize page views while still like providing some like Jalopnik spirit or like,

like keeping this thing kind of alive and keeping it kind of like authentic or real or whatever.

And like kind of true to itself in a sense, but it's like, you're always balancing that,

that relationship between like, Hey, look, I know this piece of viral video or whatever,

it's going to do a million five today. So like, we're going to put this up, we're going to put

these three other things up that are kind of shit, but like, we're just going to put them up

to get there. And then like, that will allow us to do the stuff that we care about and the

interesting stuff. And I think like, what happens at most publishers is like, the,

you do that for a while, but you're always pushing and being pushed towards that viral,

like that bigger content stuff that is like lower value, lower quality, but that you know

is going to hit. And then what especially happens is when times get tough, which times are very

tough right now in publishing, the pressure to do that stuff is very intense. And then

it's like, you start to understand doing that stuff as the difference between having a job

and not having a job. And I think like, that's, that's where most of the people in automotive

publishing are right now. And in publishing in general, is they're very aware of that

understanding of like, look, to keep me and my remaining three colleagues or five colleagues

or whatever employed, this is what we have to do. But it's like, well, as, as these publications

get bought up by private equity guys who do not give a shit about your, you know, your quirky,

cool, you know, content that keeps the spirit of the site for 20 years ago alive.

Yeah, it just like, but the thing with that is in, you know, the thing that Fern and I talked

about early on with this project is there's no light at the end of that tunnel. There's no like,

right. Oh, things are going back to normal at some point where we can like, do stuff that we care

about again, it just keeps getting more and more kind of more, you get further and further down

that road. And there's no way back from it. So I think like, that's what goes back to your point,

Peter, about like, at some point, we got to push back and yeah, figure out a large part of our

just, yeah, with a completely different, yeah, it's like, let's start over, let's tear this up.

Yeah, a large part of our conversation conversations recently have been like,

how do we, you know, and someone else told us along the way too, but how do you get them off

the apps? How do you get them off the algorithm? And as you know, that's very hard to do.

More and more, though, I feel like so many people are fucking ready. So many people. I mean,

it's not just, it's not just us, you know, I think that like, like, everybody knows that,

that the fucking algorithm is making us fucking miserable. And everybody is just desperate for,

for anything that, that provides an alternative to that. And, and I do think that that's,

that's like a hunger that can be leveraged. I do think that that's, you know, and that's,

that's a, you know, I think that's a reason for hope and also like a potential kind of

business model. It's like, let's, let's be, let's be the thing that, that people can turn to,

you know, away from, from the slop. It is funny because like, you know,

there's like, I have a weird personality quirk or whatever. And this is like,

just allow me to kind of like, walk through this for a second. But I think like, I fundamentally

am like a very cynical person where it's like, you know, Peter and Maddie are on, on a group chat

where like some cynical things maybe get said occasionally.

Sometimes maybe a little. Wait, but which one is that?

Yeah. But, but I think that I do think like fundamentally that I am,

there's somewhere in the core of me, there's like an optimism where it's like a better,

a better world for internet publishers as possible or, or for whatever is possible. Like,

you do like, there is that fundamental deep belief that like a better,

the things don't have to be like this. And I think like,

I am as a something of like, you know, it's like, because of whatever, because of the way I was

grew up and like my early career experiences or whatever, like, I do have the ability. And I

like, okay, this is a situation where like, this is we're not producing exactly what I want to

produce, how can we make it as good as possible? Given the circumstances that we're in and like,

find a way past this or find a way out of that. And I think like the Chlopnik thing, like,

the plan for me was like, okay, let's, let's keep this as intact as we can.

Get it to a different ownership situation, which my plan was for me to own it. And then like,

see what we can do with it. And like, so I guess my, my, what I'm saying is like,

I do have that ability to just be and just operate the thing under the strictures of like, what,

what needs to happen for the moment. And like, we'll just see where it goes. And I think like,

all that to say, like, I'm not like, kind of like pie in the sky, optimistic about this stuff.

Generally, I do understand like, sometimes like,

sometimes you just do what you have to do. But I think like,

in this specific case, Peter to your point, the timing of people being kind of generally

unhappy with the algorithm experience, generally, extremely unhappy with the advertising experience.

And then I think like, going around, like it did, like when Fern and I first started talking

about this approach, feel very like, Oh my God, this is a utopian kind of plan, like this maybe

will never work. It's not realistic or whatever. But like over the course of the last, like a

picturing the, the, you know, the images of, of it's like, you know, the, the, the avatar,

like kind of, you know, everything is, is, you know, blue and green.

And yeah, yeah, fields of flower.

Everybody's joining hands and dancing.

Yeah, it did feel that way for a minute where I was like, maybe this is too good to be true.

Maybe this is like, you know, like maybe we're being kind of too idealistic about this. But

the thing like, over the course of the last six months, I pitched this to in Fern has been in

these calls pitching it too, but we've like pitched this to a bunch of like very high level

marketing people. And then also like a bunch of like in the trenches, people who are like buying

programmatic advertising as a career. And like, they agree with it. And it's like, you're watching

people who are like, as in mesh and incentivized by this current model as anybody been doing it.

And they're nodding and smiling and saying like, yeah, no, you're right. And it's like

that because they're seeing people turn away from, from those, those, those channels, you know,

yes. And like that is a, that to me was like, over the course, like I said, the last six months,

it was like, every time we had one of those calls, it was like, oh, shit, like maybe this is real,

like maybe we're onto something here. And I think like, you know, that, that kind of remains to be

seen. There's, there's a ton of like impediments ahead of us as far as like making this work as a

business. But I think like, the fundamental dissatisfaction with what's happening currently

is like, that's very real and universal. Like, nobody, nobody has stepped in like we, we've had

some people who like seemed seemed like they're aware that this is kind of like challenging,

you know, what they do or like, at least calling it a question with what they do. But like,

no one has argued with this, like no one has argued with this premise of like the sucks,

the current situation sucks. And I think like, yeah, we'll see, like I said, you know, like one

of the biggest things, like go through on these calls is there's no, a lot of these companies,

there's no mechanism to pay for what we're offering. So it's like, they're, they're set up

structurally and they have like, they have relationships with agencies and with kind of

third party auction houses that sell programmatic or whatever. And that's how they operate, like

that's where the money goes and it like, it runs kind of automatically, it's like, it's just the

setup. And it's like peeling money off of that or like, kind of diverting that it's like,

how does that go? Like how are we like, and everybody has, you know, they sponsor athletes

or creators or they have like, event sponsorships or whatever, like there's mechanisms to do it,

but it's not immediately clear in a lot of cases, like how this would act like,

where a check would come from, you know what I mean? Like who and what budget are you drawing

from? Yeah, yeah. So that's a huge, I mean, that'll be a huge thing to figure out, like

we're asking our companies and agencies who are like pretty staid and set in their ways to like,

to kind of make a special category for us, so that they can pass for something that

we just invented six months ago. So I found the first version. It's,

uh, yeah. Let's go. Whoa. This, this was the first, I think the first layout I made for

back when we were calling it W123. Yeah. Absolute developers nightmare to

make this a functional UI or anything like that. This was all this kind of mood. So for listeners,

what Fern is showing us is kind of this, it's, I mean, it's a screen kind of a horizontally

oriented screen, like you'd be looking at on, on, on, yeah, landscape style, like you'd be

looking at on your desktop or laptop. Yeah, they're mock-ups of the first couple of weeks.

Yeah. And so, so stories are kind of like arrayed around this page and kind of columns,

like three columns across, uh, but also up and down and, um, yeah, it's not really like,

it's not like the websites you're, you're accustomed to seeing over the last, um,

yeah, ever since. I was trying to break constantly. I was trying to break the, um,

the edges of, like, because the content, the content box design is everywhere, right? Like,

so that, that's just a general way to portray information. I think some of that is okay.

Well, it's funny. I mean, like, like, I feel like there are so many, like there are adults

using the internet now who have never known a version of the internet that wasn't

kind of what it is now. The thing is for me, I, I look at this and this reminds me of like

what websites looked like in the, in the 90s. Like my daughter was like asking about stuff,

you know, the other day, just like, you know, the olden days, you know, did you have to write

papers with your, you know, in handwriting in high school? Yeah. She's just like, you know,

even I did, but then, and then I was explaining kind of like, you know, the, the way that, that,

that the worldwide web kind of evolved and, and, um, but it was funny for me to think about,

you know, it's like, oh yeah, God, you know, there was that time. I mean, really all through the

90s, kind of like where, I mean, it was, it was like, it was just this sense of possibilities of

like, you know, you could kind of like do anything with this. And, and it was about just really just

being creative and thinking about like, well, how do I want to lay out a page? You know, how can,

and then, and then how can I do, you know, it's like, you know, before, before even like Dream

Weaver came along or whatever. And, um, so yeah, it's just like, like that's, that's what this,

this is, is kind of firing all kinds of, uh, yeah, I never thought about that before. Ancient synapses

in my brain, but it looks good. Unlike, uh, I have the most 90s website of all time, uh, that's

currently operating, but I know I love that. Oh, thank you, dude. Yeah, I've seen it. It's,

it's one of those things that, um, like I see it sometimes in design, but like,

like I, I get jealous of the discipline of not doing too much, you know, like your HTML, pure text,

and just, um, I just know I could never do it. That's, that's why I can never just leave it that way.

I know. But you come from a place of like maybe not having as much design experience as I did.

It's probably helping you. It is. It's all, I'm, I'm all instinct up here. I'm just like, I like,

I'm pure word cell. I cannot rotate a shape to save my life. And so it's all text, baby. It's

true. Not a shape rotator. This is, I think like, um, it is, it's like pre optimization too. It's

like that's the, yes. Yeah. And I think like that's like, um, I think that's kind of like

philosophically, that's kind of like, like the site currently works very well and it's like

technically a very good website. Um, but we, we want it to look and feel like it's not optimized

to within an inch of its life, I think. Yeah. This room. Yeah. That's, no, I think it's good.

It feels like it does a really good job of that. Fern, can we, can we see a version of,

of this with the banner ads plugged into it? Just do you have any of those?

I don't know if I have that.

Why should you say many of those? We should take, um, we should take this

mock-up to. Oh, there it is. There it is. Yeah, right there.

Oh, horrible. Check. I mean, check that. I grabbed, I grabbed this because it was so stupid.

It's like a blow. Listeners, there is a beautiful, perfect layout. And then in the center of it,

there is a little block that says how we make money. And there is an Google ad server, a white,

little horrible, little rectangular ad that says nanny tax unveiled with a photo of a

dog talking to an old woman. That's actually very funny. It's kind of like the, it's really the,

the best possible way to, to do that. That's what these real sites like multi-million dollar

that's what they look like. And of course, like, well, except for like, it's 20 of those, right?

I mean, the balance, the balance is inverted. I mean, what you guys have here is like a bunch

of squares with, with content stories and then one rectangle with, with, with this, you know,

hideous banner ad. I feel like, like what it is now is just you have 30 banner ads. And then

there's, there's a video in the corner. The story is a full screen. We have to find the X to hit.

There's five scrolling ads moving with your screen as you're scrolling. Yeah.

But yeah, no, it does, it does, it does look like somebody just kind of took a dump in the middle

of this, like, beautiful. I was trying to, at one point, I don't, I don't even know if I have,

maybe that, maybe I do somewhere, but I was trying to, to lean into it at some point with,

with my own humor, which is like, not for everyone, but like literally just say, this is,

I love it. Oh, that's perfect. I mean, that's, that's what kind of saves it. You know, it's just

yeah, there was, there was, oh yeah. We should take these layouts, the Logan and Lulu and the

art fellowpers and just be like, look, hey, look, the site's been out for two weeks,

for a week, and it's not going the way we wanted to. So like, can we just like real quick? Yeah.

Can we just kind of shift everything? Can we shift? We realized we have to start making money.

So can you, can you start? Yeah, really? Can we throw up some, some banners? That would be,

that would be hilarious. Can you imagine? Our, our developers, wonderful people, and they did a

great job. Shoutouts. But they are, they are doing the part of the breakup where it's like,

they're putting up their boundaries around like, okay, this is within scope to fix because it's

bug, that would be new scope, you know, like, understandable, which is what they should do.

Like that's, but yeah, setting healthy boundaries. Yeah. But the appeal to me of going to them with

a total redesign and asking if that's within scope would be, it's just, it's just like a classic

type of thing that I would do to somebody. Yeah. Are they excited to be, to be working on something

yeah, so different? I mean, I would happen to think that just like, creatively, that would,

that would be like, fun. I think so. I think it was, it was tough for them to, I mean, they're,

they're typically more involved in the design part of the site. And so like, typically,

they would get a brief and start from scratch, designing it and then building it. And like,

I think they were a little, it was, it's different for them, I think, to get something that is so

far along as far as like visual language. And like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was kind of a,

a struggle early on. Yeah, one day I ask is, is more like, like less, less kind of developing

this thing from scratch and more just like taking this visual language that you're presenting them

with and just making it functional? Yeah, yeah, they were trying to make, they were trying to bring

the mockups in, into like a more, like, not that it's their fault, but like, you know,

more traditional blog layout, because I mean, it does, it is optimized, right? Like there is

stuff that works for a reason. But I think a lot of, a lot of what we were trying to do was like,

you know, breaking the mold a little bit in terms of that as well. And

it took a minute for them to like, be like, oh, okay, like, I see what you're trying to do.

We're not kind of, we're not going to follow those kinds of rules and then kind of make it

into something different. Yeah, I feel like the site does like, like, incredible good job of,

of kind of striking that balance between just having consistency in terms of functionality,

in terms of like being able to navigate it easily. Yeah, yeah, really easy to navigate.

But also like, you know, providing the opportunity for, you know, for a lot of just different,

a lot of variation in the way that, that stuff is presented visually. And yeah, yeah,

it's tough because if you break too many rules design-wise, like people are just going to get

frustrated and not want to use it. So like, yeah, it could look-

No, I feel like it's, no, it's, it's the opposite of that. It's like, it's like,

it's the perfect amount of, of kind of variable variation that, that keeps, keeps your brain

engaged and like, keeps you like, it, like, it, you know, it's like, what's the Japanese lady,

the thing of like, sparks joy or whatever. It's like, oh, that's delightful, you know?

Rather than just being like, you know, assaulted with, you know, or, or just confused where it's

like, how do I get back to whatever? How do I, you know? Yeah. The, and it also, it also,

I mean, Fern, just like visually, man, like the, the way, the way that the, the stories are,

are kind of presented, just like that variation, it really does have a sense of like,

like, you're almost like a musician, just like riffing, you know? Yeah. It feels like that,

Peter. I was going to ask you about that because it feels like, in my, like, in my brain, I'm making

connections to the story that's being told and, and I can sort of make new connections

with the visuals. And my hope is that people kind of get that, I think, to, to a degree, like,

that's the, that's the goal, obviously, is for them to understand it. But like, I, I've been

trying to do it in a way that feels different and, and maybe lets somebody else understand

something in a different way or come to their own conclusion, which is probably what you do in

music as well. It's like, you know, you're telling a story, but you don't want to just tell them a

boring story. You want to kind of illuminate it and let their brain go to other places as well.

So a lot of that effort has been to try and, to find a way to do that on a more, like, consistent

basis. And even if, if, if it's like a more straightforward story, like, can we, can we find

a way to kind of make things interesting with the visuals or help tell the story, you know?

Yeah. No, it's just about like, like making things, like making things engaging, not as, as

distinct from driving engagement, you know? Yes, exactly. Yeah. It's, it's, it's drawing you in,

it's making you want to, you know, by, by presenting this thing that's, that's really appealing.

And we were talking about the story rally hard yesterday. And the, the story is about Andy

actually driving an HRC like rally car to SEMA. And they gave us, or I think Alex got it right,

Rory, like the story. But they gave us like folders and folders of just

stuff that they're doing, like it wasn't curated at all and like a bunch of random fucking shit.

And I was annoyed because I was like, I don't want to dig through this to make this fucking story.

And then, and then I found this like Insta360 footage that is meant to be put together.

So like you can kind of look at it, like click and look at it in a 3D, like a 360 degree.

But that the way that the, the film comes like in a raw format is like these two big fucking

circle things that, you know what I mean? So when you put them together and kind of scroll around.

But I was like, I'm just going to put that on the cover. Because it's kind of chaotic,

like Andy is, and this story is about two dudes just like kind of, you know,

doing something stupid. Trying to, yeah, they're doing something stupid, trying to get to SEMA.

And like, there's all these like problems along the way. And it's kind of funny. So

it felt like a skateboarding video or skateboarding. Right. Absolutely. The sense of motion.

Yeah. But that was the intent behind it. And hopefully people kind of get to those places

are intrigued by it. But yeah, sometimes in my head, I'm like, I'm fucking crazy. Like, I don't

think anything. No, it's rocks. It's great. I love just scrolling the page. Like I'm just like

scrolling up and down on the alloy front page right now, just enjoying the brain feel.

Yeah. It's on there. It's the texture. It's like when I was a kid, like I had like the same 10

issues of Nintendo power that I had gotten during like one year I was subscribed, but I held on to

them and I was like always rereading them. And it got to be like a familiar texture to me to

like go back over these articles and get a feel for like the design sensibility that they had at

the time. And like it feels good to look at something that has that like not only the feeling

of like linearity that I get from scrolling through, which I think you guys touched on earlier

about putting content in order, but there is just a feeling of like it's that uninterrupted

structure. It's the feeling like I'm not being led anymore. Else I am just flipping back and

forth through my magazine. Yeah, it just feels good. A lot of a lot of what I initially gathered

in like mood boards and stuff was like Japanese editorial magazines. Yeah. Like in and you know

how those are, I mean there's like shit everywhere. If there's a blank space, something's got to go

there. It's busy. And you know that's part of part of my aesthetic too. Even though I don't

I don't want to totally admit to that because I think good design is also simple, but like

to me it's exactly that you're coming here and you're kind of enjoying the process of finding

out what this stuff is or what this stuff is. You're not necessarily going there for a headline

every time, you know? So I think there's there's too like a something that kind of undergirds all

this is like the event through like redesign processes on other sites before. And I think like

the however interesting and fun those initial discussions are in those contexts, you eventually

end up like okay, we have to get eyeballs onto these banner ads or like this right rail where

people are clicking on stuff or like we have to it's like all about

fundamental like driving eyeballs to those things and like that's how you make your money. So it's

like if you get rid of that initial kind of like or that like fundamental piece of this,

then it's like the freedom to design and the freedom to like think about like okay how is a

user going to use this? We're not trying to make them do anything except spend time on the site

and enjoy it. Like that's a totally different philosophy than than the regular the regular

process or the regular philosophy and it's like it just allows everything to be so much there's

just so much more freedom. It's like so like whatever this is this is like it comes down again

to the like optimistic thing where it's like you know the the optimistic part of my brain wants

to say like if you offer people a better experience and like if everyone is saying hey we hate the

way things are and you're like all right like here's a different thing yeah check it out it's like

the optimistic part of my brain is like people will be like oh okay like yeah this is what I want

like this is better yeah that's not always the case yeah the pessimistic part of my brain is like

man like I can look at the movies that are doing well in the theaters I can look at the

songs that are but it's also like you know we don't need to be Taylor Swift

we don't need to we don't to be the tap earning maybe you don't or maybe I don't but maybe you do

like we don't need to conquer the world with this thing it's like can we build a sustainable

business I think that's also like another yeah philosophical thing whereas like Fern and I like

making this stuff we'd like the creative part of it is fulfilling for us and I think like

you know whereas if we were private equity owned or owned by a bigger company the incentives then

are to like okay how do we maximize the profit out of this thing how do we get this to a 20 million

50 million dollar business or whatever and it's like you know that's just not necessarily

how Fern and I are motivated I think I mean it's like the process looks different under those

you know goals yeah sure so I think Fern and I have been doing this for a year and not getting

we start versus like where the other places have to start and I think like

that that also kind of changes the equation and it's also again it's like

everybody man well it's not even so much that but it's like everybody you know if you go to the

automotive stuff or if you're going on trips or or going to auto shows or whatever it's like you

sit around and talk to your colleagues in different places or it's like you can call people like

who run some of these bigger businesses and it's like

this constant doom and gloom about like this business is falling apart everyone's

everyone's getting laid off you know no one knows if they're gonna have a job for one day to the

next and it's like I typically and in general don't obviously fault the people who work at

those places for that for the situation that they're in I think like a lot of the people

are doing really good work and or trying to do really good work or at least aspire to do really

good work but it's like at a certain point you can either sit here and be like oh man this

ship is really filling with water or like you can start trying to bail the ship out and I think like

fern and I or build build a lifeboat build a lifeboat yeah I think like fern and I are fundamentally

like people who who are going to undertake that project of like getting some of the water out

of the boat or or building the lifeboat I think like that's like who we are you know lives away

from work too is like yeah I can fix that like you know like I can get hold of that and like if

if we do this this and this like we can actually make something cool out of it and I think like

that's kind of what this is is kind of like why this feels like a DIY thing for us

and it's like that again it's like that sub-layer deepest deep down motivational layer of

stubborn optimism that just like won't won't go away so yeah that's that's the

eight man hell yeah brother it's also called a lot of people also call that being stupid so it's

like a there's a gray area there yeah you know yeah it's like that's the the somebody was like

I asked me about this and I was like you know the the only difference with any of this stuff is

like whether this was a stupid idea or the most brilliant idea in history is like if it works

if it works you're a genius if it doesn't work you're more on and it's like

I can that's pretty much how I live my life so

we can can I ask one question just playing devil's advocate yeah of both of you guys

what happens when you get the call it's like rory burn I would like to develop some content to

tell a story about about my robo taxi

I don't I don't anticipate that being an issue given my prior interactions with Elon

but I would say in my initial response would be that we would not do that

but I'm trying to think of a way that I could ruin his life by doing that

I know so many paths yeah so it's like any opportunity you get to cross paths you have

to kind of think about like what can I do with this yeah yeah which would be that would be my

calculus I think we'd probably say no unless there is a way that I could really make it

I mean you could just you could just say it's a sliding you guys operate on a sliding scale basis

and and so it cost him like you know 47 billion dollars it's sure there's a real top gear opportunity

there right like the first like tesla uh roadster like didn't didn't top gear like say they were

going to do something with the shit on it yeah classic I mean that was like I you know before I

really knew anything about elan and before I knew anything about tesla the company um

they sent me a model s to review and it broke and it was like I don't know if you know this but like

I'm sure I told you though like it it got stuck in my driveway there's like a little pin that's on a

um it's under the relay and the pin holds the charger in the car won't let you release it

like if someone if the car's locked and you're charging a stranger can't come pull the

thing out like that that's a common thing like I'll always wonder about that yeah yeah um

but the little actuator failed or whatever totally normal failure for a new car to have

especially like an early build but it when that happens you can't move the car oh god yeah that's

right uh there was a video about that I remember uh yeah um but anyway it stuck all of us because

my driveway was seven-year-old you couldn't move a car around it so we got everyone was stuck

in the house um over a couple days well they fixed this and like I went through the normal

channels is like my is a car reviewer the the practice that I'm always in is like if something

happens pretend you're an owner and try to solve the problem like an owner would um because like

that's useful information to an owner um nobody at tesla like this was so early they didn't have

any service people like nobody would get back and finally I put it on twitter which was like kind of

not new but like it was not what it is today or like what it ever was like it was like very early

days and it blew up and it was like became this like this national story and like everybody was

writing about it and um tesla pr which they had a pr department back then finally called me and they

were like oh my god what's going on and I was like told him that they flew some guy in from minnesota

to try to fix it in the meantime I'd like stuck a feeler gauge in the charger to try to like uh see

if I could get the pin to release or whatever which the guy when he got there was not happy about like

he was like don't ever touch the but that also was my first because like trying to figure out

what the issue was tesla on the phone was giving me a bunch of instructions and so I started like

pulling carpet and trim outside or out from inside the car to like access stuff and it was like oh my

god like who fucking built this car it's like I'm going to drive this on the road like put other

cars it was like it was like all of a sudden it's like like who who welded it like had this person

ever operated a welder before like and was this like a pre-production car or was this like an

actual it was a real car yeah this was like one of the first Model S um you know I don't know if

it was a vinn car or pre-production but it was production like it came off the line like it was

a real car um and it was like oh my god like this is a real piece of shit um but um yeah so I you

know listeners maddy maddy just linked us to to a video if you go to youtube and and search tesla

model s faulty charger leaves rory carol stranded oh my gosh yeah it's auto week

from uh 12 years ago it's been more than 36 hours since we've seen rory carol we think he's okay but

all we have to go on are his cryptic tweets and word that a tesla technician flew to him under the

cover of darkness carol has been home since monday evening with a tesla model s that won't release

its charger he's tried locking and unlocking unplugging from the wall and good old fashioned

screaming and pounding on the hood tesla says the model s locks its charger in place to protect

against malicious unplugging they didn't say anything about purposeful unplugging rory was

performing a range test on the vehicle but i think at this point we can safely say that its range is

zero yeah so and then of course i i um got blocked by elon he was having kind of a meltdown about the

was it just about that or where you go no this is a separate so he years later he was having

kind of a hard time building model threes it was like a kind of a catastrophe he had this huge

he had this idea that the cars were all going to be built by robots and it was called the

kind of it's called the something alien dreadnought and he like insisted on building his own

version of the assembly line from like his imagination which was like a picture from a

sci-fi movie and he just like sent to the entrance and was like built this and they're like oh that's

stupid that won't work and he was like just build it and then it was a catastrophe the cars

would not couldn't build them on the assembly line they were like um cork sensing

kind of ratchet bots that were like trying to install bolts i think from the

uh sub main subframe to like the front um or the main frame to the the sub front subframe

yeah but they couldn't tell when they were cross threaded so they would just overtork

a cross threaded bolt into the and they would be like sticking up half an inch out of the out of

the front of the car um the cars would roll off the line and like put one wheel down in the windshield

of the chatter it's like you can imagine a brand new car in a clean assembly line rolling off the

line and then like just like floating and so there was some like uh financing or maybe it was a

government uh incentive whatever where they had to build a certain number of model threes in a

in a certain amount of time to get the the money and um so they ended up kind of shutting down

the assembly line and hand assembling these cars in a tent it was like a catastrophe oh yes no i

remember re i've read about this episode and so uh elon tweeted something about like um and this

was back when you could like y'all at celebrities and twitter didn't protect them right but um which

was like the only good thing the only good part about twitter right yeah um but the uh he he got

on there and was like uh hey we're having a hackathon to uh to rejigger the assembly line and get some

of these production production issues figured out and i was like uh you should have a hackathon to

invent a time machine uh so you can go back and hire a ceo who knows what the fuck he's doing and

immediate block uh from elon which is like i'm so glad he saw that like he he saw it and he i know

he read it because he blocked me um so i don't he later unblock you though i thought i recall he

did well he had a he had a needed your guidance meltdown well that the um or do they make him

unblock people i forget the suit yeah the super bowl was happening and his tweets were not getting

it he was like making a bunch of jokes and they weren't getting a ton of engagement on the site

and so um he had one of the twitter devs or presumably a group of them um kind of trying

to figure out what could be behind it and one of the solutions was a you blocked like whatever a

hundred thousand people so he unblocked mass unblocked everybody um and so then i got i got

caught up in that um but yeah i don't i don't think he'll reach out i mean like i said it's a lot of

work yeah imagine just having even like if it was even like a thousand people the fact that

you had to block a thousand people because they were sending you abuse of shit yeah that's so funny

it is it is funny though to think about like uh the ceo of all these companies i mean this is

before but like who spends that much time on twitter who like it's just like um it's real

it's a real um illustration of like the um you know the the workload of the average uh

chief executive officer um right just tweeting um but anyway yeah posting anyway it um i don't think

they'll come to us i am willing to have the conversation uh with elon obviously um like i

said i'm i'm certain there's a way for me to warm my way and ruin his life but um

but let's talk about it okay yeah well long long ago you heard it here first

we're willing to work with i don't know if i don't know if elon's been listening to the pod but

um i'm sure i'm sure what else has it got to do yeah cool all right we've got an hour and a half

here should we wrap her up yeah i think we can wrap it up um where can people see alloy

they can go to uh what is it for uh it's uh alloy mag dot com all right yeah and we're on

instagram at alloy underscore mag yep yep we do have a registered blue sky which i think maddie

has seen i don't think i have we also have a youtube channel with no videos and we have a

on alloy mag dot com slash sign hyphen up you can go and there are membership tiers where you can

support alloy at a fifty a year hundred a year five hundred a year or one time one thousand

dollar payment to support the site yeah you're always gonna make you a car i do we do have a

thousand dollar uh member at this point uh yeah wow someone's getting in there i'll be

we bail i mean i did see i did look at the at those those tiers and and um like you guys have

plans for some some interesting stuff like beyond just like merch or whatever it's like you're talking

about like like do like publishing like fiscal like yeah yeah something like what what what what

yeah tell us yeah i think we have um obviously like the merch stuff is starting to roll out we

did like a really limited merch run this summer which sold really well um hats and hats and shirts um

so we're gonna keep doing that stuff and i think like obviously like a membership is a good way

to get a first look at that stuff and then um you can get discounts on it but i think again the live

event piece of this is real and like that's that's kind of um like important i think to us as far as

being able to provide value to people who are like membership holders or people who are like

become members of this is like let's go to amsa race do a guided tour like get some behind the

scenes stuff um that kind of stuff is really interesting to me and i think like again it's

like if we're gonna build something that's bigger than just a typical website like that's gotta be

a part of it like meeting people in real life um and then the um sorry you said the memberships the

books book yeah yeah the book thing so i think people have asked asked a bunch like

because the site looks the way it does like if asked like are you gonna do a print thing

and i think the plan now is to do a um annual book with like all the best art and writing from

the magazine or from the website into like one like an anthology kind of kind of thing yeah

yeah exactly we started calling it a yearbook we didn't like the name yearbook um but like

ology is good peter damn that's good yeah that's good it's gonna give us an english major yeah

a little spiff on that yeah uh i i was like man yearbook sounds like so stupid

but it would be funny if we played into it too like actual yearbook yeah graphic

yeah everybody would everybody like you know signs it at the end have great summer

love you lots best eyes yeah this is where my brain goes all the time i'm sure rory's stick of it

it's so good i love it commit to the bit yeah uh but yeah i think um that that'll be cool i think

that um probably something we'll sell on the site as well but i think like there's something about

like the tangible print thing i think like doing 10 issues a year or 12 issues a year does not make

sense to me at this juncture um but i think doing one like hardcover thing um would be really cool

yeah i think it makes it special too you know it's it's kind of like a like an event it's like a

perelli calendar or something yeah or like uh the well not exactly like the perilla calendar but the

oh who knows the um the um maddie maddie you should google perilla

but the the um the other thing that we look at too is like ferrari does a yearly racing

yearbook for like which is really like a throwback to their old business where it was

like a racing business that sometimes built road cars and it's like yeah they do a basically

like a prospectus like an investment um level prospectus with all the like stats and like

how much money was spent and like how many tires they bought like all the like but it's gorgeous

and it's like it's four people who are like involved with the race team um but like that's

kind of the idea for that uh the other thing the i put this in as a joke on the thousand

dollar level um thinking that no one would sign up for it but i do i am committed now to making

a steel car from scratch i did warn him about this i absolutely crazy ideas but i didn't tell

him what was the thing i don't remember what the what the what was the promise that i would make

you a car from steel and that fern would paint it and um so i think like a functional it did

know it started as a die cast it did start as a die cast and then uh rory's like well i'll just

of course rory like i'll just make one yeah so that the plan so we're talking like one there's

there is a slight or i do have a plan that so you know those little those you can cut out

the little um like i don't piece of paper you print off papercraft cars yeah yeah papercraft

so i just cut that out and then cut the shapes out of steel yeah weld them together and then

wow paint it yeah you got a car do you get to pick do you get to pick the making model of your

little custom out it's a it's a lot of it's a lot of a lot of that's right everyone gets a lot of

yeah that's gonna be so a preview of our governmental policy it would be so funny if

elon got the thousand dollar and you had to make him a car well that's and show him how to weld right

yeah yeah so here's i can i can go to the tesla factory with my with my uh

cheap home addition welder and be like guys everybody come in here look look at this

want to make sure these surfaces are clean and you want to bevel between these a lot

i think a lot of you are feeding the wire too fast and maybe not using enough feet

that's why you're getting a lot of that splatter and the surfaces aren't clean

but the uh and the the robot's all gnawed up yeah right yeah yeah

tesla stock discuss yeah to the moon baby yeah uh the um no the the card thing i think

will be pretty straightforward i think the the main uh advantage to doing the tesla or the um

lotta versus say tesla is that all the surfaces on the lotta are totally flat so like there's no

exactly not to bend anything gonna have to yeah should be pretty straightforward as it as it should

be yeah that's right yep let's get it intended uh all right man let's uh let's wrap her up and

we can go look at the look at the website yeah i love looking at the website thank you everybody

for listening to tired stay tired out there we'll have plenty more fun stuff for you soon and go to

alloy mag dot com stay tired cool stay tired guys thanks thanks for coming on for and this is super

fun yeah dude i appreciate it i appreciate uh you guys have for sure so thanks all right all right

see you guys see you guys

Episode 95: ALLOY MAG

About this episode

Porsche

Type Seven

HRC rally car

Tesla Roadster

Tesla Model S

charger pin

Dodge Charger

actuator

feeler gauge

VIN

Tesla Model

range test

alien dreadnought

assembly line

cross-threaded bolt

overtork

Tesla Model 3

government incentives

hackathon

Ferrari

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