A lively discussion unfolds as the hosts dive into the complexities of NASCAR's playoff system, comparing it to football and other motorsports. They debate the merits of gamifying racing and the impact on driver recognition and fan engagement. The conversation also touches on the cultural differences in sports appreciation between America and Europe, with a nostalgic nod to the WRC and its unique appeal. Personal anecdotes about family, local racing, and the intertwining of motorsport with broader societal issues add depth to the episode.
A discussion of the NASCAR Playoffs leads us deep into the psyche of the average U.S. American sports enjoyer. Then Peter brings us a Wikipedia dive so sinister it needs the other music, and Rory takes us to TC Rock City.
We recorded this right after our PATREON DUNK TANK #2 which will be uploaded soon. Subscribers, we can't thank you enough for your support while other projects have kept your hosts busy.
You can support Rory's new venture Alloy with a membership here: https://alloymag.com/sign-up/ And read Peter's recent contribution to Alloy's Film Friday ( https://alloymag.com/film-friday-cannonball/ ), where he offers his take on forgotten 70's comedy Cannonball and the machinery on display.
Get Peter's new record Half-Staff Blues here: https://peterpeterhughes.bandcamp.com/album/half-staff-blues
(And check out the guys he made it with: https://popfilter.bandcamp.com/album/trade-place-tape / https://snowynasdaq.bandcamp.com/album/the-apartment )
As ever, our Peter Article Reading Music is "sarin gas" by Frugivore:
https://frugivore.bandcamp.com/track/sarin-gas
Your producer pal Matty, who writes these, has nothing to plug except of course, our Patreon paid tier where all our extra-fun episodes go. support my wonderful co-hosts ty ty ty ˖⁺‧₊˚ ♡ ˚₊‧⁺˖
"...the principal uh at the school drives a CT5-V Blackwing oh wow she's like..."
The Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing is a fast and sporty version of the CT5 car. It has a strong engine and is built for people who love driving and want a luxurious feel.
The Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing is a high-performance variant of the CT5 sedan, featuring a powerful engine and sport-tuned suspension. It's designed for enthusiasts who appreciate luxury and performance in a compact package.
"...you look at like the way that that in IMSA race works versus a WEK race..."
IMSA is a group that organizes car races, especially long-distance races in the U.S. They have rules and guidelines for how these races are run.
IMSA stands for the International Motor Sports Association, which governs sports car racing in North America. It is known for its endurance races, including the prestigious Daytona 24 Hours.
"...or yellow flags or whatever you know and and where in WEK they'll do like this kind of thing..."
WEC is a series of long car races that happen around the world, including a famous race called Le Mans. It features different car brands and teams.
WEC stands for the World Endurance Championship, which is an international series of endurance races. It features events like the famous Le Mans 24 Hours and showcases a variety of manufacturers and teams.
"...if you look at the way nascar has explained the playoffs over the years it is a pretty transparent self-consciousness about how much more popular..."
NASCAR is a type of car racing that takes place on oval tracks, featuring specially designed cars. It's very popular in the United States, with many fans and exciting races.
NASCAR, or the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing, is a popular motorsport organization in the United States known for its stock car racing events. It features a unique format and a dedicated fan base, with events like the Daytona 500 being highlights of the season.
"...what is it always always described as the Daytona 500 and what is it always always described as the super bowl of nascar in all things we are differing and differing..."
The Daytona 500 is a famous car race in the NASCAR series, held every year in Florida. It's considered one of the biggest events in racing, similar to how the Super Bowl is for football.
The Daytona 500 is one of the most prestigious races in NASCAR, held annually at the Daytona International Speedway in Daytona Beach, Florida. It's often referred to as the 'Super Bowl of NASCAR' due to its significance and popularity in American motorsports.
"... i didn't through IMSA i picked two guys out of a Corvette and decided i was gonna follow what they were do..."
The Chevrolet Corvette is a fast and stylish sports car made in America. It’s famous for being fun to drive and looks really cool, making it popular among car lovers and racers. People often talk about it because it competes in car races and has a long history.
The Chevrolet Corvette is a high-performance sports car that has been an American icon since its introduction in 1953. Known for its sleek design and powerful V8 engine, the Corvette is significant in automotive history for its blend of performance and affordability compared to European sports cars. It is often discussed in the context of racing, particularly in events like IMSA, where it has a strong competitive presence.
"...they're they're lead their hundays losing hundays losing the big dog um that's gonna be i mean i don't know if hundays actually staying with w r c because that's been kind of big topic..."
WRC is a global racing series where drivers compete in rally races, which take place on different types of roads, including dirt and gravel. It's known for its exciting and tough races.
WRC stands for World Rally Championship, a prestigious international motorsport series that features rally racing on various terrains. It showcases both driver skill and vehicle performance in challenging conditions.
"...they're they're lead their hundays losing hundays losing the big dog um that's gonna be i mean i don't know if hundays actually staying with w r c because that's been kind of big topic..."
Hyundai is a car company from South Korea that makes many types of vehicles. They also participate in racing events like the WRC, showcasing their cars' performance.
Hyundai is a South Korean automotive manufacturer known for producing a wide range of vehicles, including sedans, SUVs, and electric cars. The brand has been actively involved in motorsports, including the World Rally Championship.
"...the air and laying on their skid plate and it's like how are you not how is how is this not like..."
A skid plate is a tough piece that protects the bottom of a car. It helps keep important parts safe when driving over rocks or rough ground.
A skid plate is a protective component installed on the underside of a vehicle, designed to shield critical parts from damage when driving over rough terrain or obstacles. It's commonly found on off-road vehicles and rally cars.
"...like wrc formula one like formula one is the biggest sport in the world everywhere but here..."
Formula One is a top-level car racing series where the fastest cars and best drivers compete in races called Grands Prix. It's famous for its speed and technology.
Formula One is a premier international auto racing series known for its high-speed races and advanced technology. It features teams and drivers competing in a series of races known as Grands Prix, held on various circuits around the world.
"well i mean in in f in f1 kind of historically i mean kind of nationalism was a huge part of..."
Formula 1 is a type of car racing where specially designed cars compete in races called Grands Prix. It's very popular and involves teams from different countries, each with their own cars and drivers.
Formula 1, often abbreviated as F1, is the highest class of international auto racing for single-seater formula racing cars. It features a series of races known as Grands Prix, held on various circuits around the world, and is known for its technological advancements and high-speed competition.
"...best remembered in history as a class winner at Le Mans um but will it be remembered by those who knew him as a man driven by his passion for motorsport..."
Le Mans is a famous car race that lasts for 24 hours. Teams race their cars continuously, and it's known for being very challenging and exciting.
Le Mans is a prestigious 24-hour endurance race held annually in France. It is one of the oldest and most famous car races in the world, attracting manufacturers and private teams alike to compete in various classes of racing cars.
"...with the all canadian teammates scott maxwell and greg wilkins and a multi-matic motorsports run lola blah blah blah blah goes on to list his his accomplishments and accolades..."
Lola is a brand that makes racing cars, and they are known for competing in big races like Le Mans. Their cars are built for speed and performance.
Lola is a manufacturer known for producing racing cars, including those used in endurance racing like Le Mans. Their vehicles are often recognized for their innovative designs and performance in various motorsport categories.
"...with the all canadian teammates scott maxwell and greg wilkins and a multi-matic motorsports run lola blah blah blah blah goes on to list his his accomplishments and accolades..."
Multimatic Motorsports is a company that helps build and prepare racing cars for competitions. They work with teams to make sure the cars perform well in races.
Multimatic Motorsports is a racing team and engineering company that has been involved in various forms of motorsport, including endurance racing. They are known for their expertise in vehicle development and race preparation.
"he had a a sob 900 turbo in the in the 90s i think he was like it might have been a flat nose like a 85 um and uh and let me borrow it..."
The Saab 900 Turbo is a car from the 1980s that has a turbo engine, making it faster than regular cars. It's known for its unusual style and the ability to carry a lot of stuff.
The Saab 900 Turbo is a notable model known for its unique design and turbocharged performance. It was popular in the 1980s and is recognized for its quirky characteristics and practicality.
"really he had he had a a sob 900 i mean he was he was a car guy and um uh had a couple of of triumph spitfires..."
The Triumph Spitfire is a small, fun sports car from Britain that people enjoyed driving. It was made for many years and is loved for its classic look.
The Triumph Spitfire is a small British sports car that was produced from the 1960s to the 1980s. It's known for its classic design and fun driving experience.
"it's fast in a in a really weird and entertaining way um you know with the turbo lag and stuff..."
Turbo lag is the wait you feel when you press the gas pedal in a turbocharged car before it speeds up. It can make driving feel different and exciting.
Turbo lag refers to the delay between pressing the accelerator and the turbocharger providing additional power. It can create a unique driving experience, especially in turbocharged cars.
"...see that yeah that's my buddy kory i just saw the previa yeah like the thing that he's standing next to i..."
The Toyota Previa is a type of minivan that is great for families because it has a lot of space inside. It looks a bit different from other minivans because the engine is in the middle, which helps it drive better. People like to talk about it because it’s known to be reliable and useful.
The Toyota Previa is a minivan that was produced from 1990 to 1997, known for its unique design and spacious interior. It features a mid-engine layout, which is uncommon for minivans, providing better weight distribution and handling. The Previa is often discussed for its practicality and reliability, making it a popular choice for families during its production years.
Select text to request an explanation
all as well. Good. That was fun. It's uh it's good to know that's out there. That's the thing,
Maddy put in the work exploring some of the most unfathomable corners of the online world to me.
It sounds like one of those things. Like my big problem with reading Peter is not that I read
slowly but it's that I'll read a ton and then come to the realization that I've been thinking
about something else the entire time. Oh sure. I mean that's part of that yeah that's part of my
thing where it's like you just realize you've read like you know four pages and and none of it has
registered and you have to just go back. This has happened to me a lot with the Formula One fic.
I would imagine it to be like you're like wow I really got through a lot of this and then we're
oh wait I can't talk about this because I don't recall any of the events that transpire.
It's like oh someone's talking to their sibling for six consecutive pages again. Like do I have to
go back and reread? Was anything of value possibly communicated here? I don't I really don't think so.
I think it was probably nothing. I think it was probably six pages of nothing again.
I uh yesterday went to parent teacher conferences and um we went and talked to
both teachers obviously uh for 20 minutes and then um I was leaving and I was like
those are the same teachers that we've met in August right? Everyone's like yeah I have no
recollection whatsoever of having met these people. Like they looked so vastly different than I was
imagining their kids teachers to look and like I was like you've never met this person before. Never
seen them before never. It was like like like with Patricia you know like she this is my wife she
you know who was a kindergarten teacher and and she's been doing parent teacher conferences
and this is something she fucking sweats you know like oh yeah it's a huge huge amount of work just
to prepare for them and and have like you just compile all this this information and and and
kind of you know document their kids progress and whatever um but it's but she also feels like
like super on the spot you know where it's like she's being judged by every one of these parents
you know and and I'm just like they have no I promise they are no I mean maybe like you
know one out of you know 10 or whatever is coming in but who's just like the weird you
know fucking control freak parent or whatever but it's like I guarantee you none of these people like
they they they just they just want to to just be told that that their kid is like reasonably
normal and healthy and and then and then and they don't have to think about what's going on in the
classroom anymore because they're completely overwhelmed with the rest of their lives yeah no
yeah I yeah I felt so I was like really and really like no exaggeration like I said I have no
recollection and I was like uh was I there like was I in the room right went and uh apparently I
talked to them uh madam shook their hands uh not that long ago like a few months ago and then just
know um so that's that was good that certainly was like um an indicator to me that everything's
working properly uh up above upstairs area yeah it's like
hey you've had a lot going on what else what else have I memory wiped in the last
three months uh four months I did see the principal I don't know if I told you this on the
pod already but the principal uh at the school drives a CT 5v black wing oh wow she's like
she's probably in her 50s and she's like five foot two probably um it's an automatic um but
does not fit the profile of a car enthusiast for sure uh but I I was seeing it in the parking lot
you know I'd go to drop the kids off or whatever or pick them up and I was like who's fucking car
is that it's like you know $120,000 who's got my car cat like yeah and uh it's her I was so surprised
and I like did you talk to her no I don't know how to approach I didn't know you know because
it's like a she's probably self-conscious about it because it's a pretty expensive car uh and b
I don't want to come off as saying like you can't possibly be a car enthusiast you know what I mean
like yeah yeah yeah uh so I haven't really figured out how to approach it also like early on um
forget what happened I would just be like hey you track that thing yeah yeah that your fucking car
yeah cool whip what's up I have to tell you I'm very jealous of your car yeah and I want I want to
know what your deal is what's your deal yeah yeah but maybe she's like a former racer or something
she would probably be I mean if she found out who you are she would probably be stoked I know yeah
yeah she uh she already knows me uh because I had a complaint the first couple weeks from school a
couple so that's kind of coloring my uh my invitation to to get it wasn't a complaint it was
just uh her her one of the kids teachers was brand new um and she was having some difficulties I think
early on like adjusting to uh I think having kindergartners um it's tough and so we um we were
proactive and had a very nice very very cool meeting about it but um you know I'm on the
last time I know quantity around there
oh
yeah I guess I watched a video but I mean I you know
as uh as we know I'm not a big NASCAR follower but but I did gather that that that uh end of
the season thing was kind of a shit show right Phoenix was a bad weekend for everybody yeah
really bad for uh bad for bad for uh Denny Hamlin bad for Connor Zillich bad for a lot of NASCAR
viewers who already hated the playoffs um bad time it just seems like what what is I mean the
playoffs it's it's it's race cars there's no playoffs well and the points where you said stuff
is complicated and the point like the stage point stuff like even Denny Hamlin's out there like oh
yeah I fucked my own driver because I didn't know what the points were and it's like dog we can't
keep doing this like a like a dumb I've always just like I could never understand the yeah a full
season now behind that a full season points championship would be better like it's just
it's crazy to look at the season that Connors had and like it's it's bad for Jesse Love winning
because then people are gonna want to put an asterisk on that for a long time and it's just
like it's not I mean you know and then the cup race like Ryan Blaney's over there in victory lane
just like twiddling his thumbs and everyone's like uh Kyle Arson won the championship I guess
because he won the playoffs and everyone's like putting 20 cameras on Denny Hamlin like hey Denny
how's it going it's like oh boy this is not this is not good tv it's not good for anybody it's a
bummer just sucks I guess I mean I guess it's that thing where there's always been this this
tension in in motorsports where like and and to a degree I feel like like American versus like
traditionally European or international motorsports has kind of exemplified this in the in the in the
way that like like the European stuff is much more kind of hardcore and traditional and pure
and the American just like you know like you look at like the way that that in IMSA race works
versus a WEK race you know where we're just like the way they handle cautions or yellow flags or
whatever you know and and where in WEK they'll do like this kind of thing that that that like
maintains the not just the order on the track but also kind of the the the distance between the cars
you know so if you have like a you know a 30 second lead on on another car like when there's a
caution you're not going to lose that whereas in IMSA it's much more like okay there's a caution
now every the whole field bunches up and it's basically just like starting over and so so it
kind of like provides a lot more it's much easier for lapped cars to get their laps back as a result
of that so it's it's kind of like it's it it it makes for kind of more more competitive
and more exciting racing at the at the cost of of like a little bit of of just kind of like
you know purity or you know you're kind you're gamifying it a little bit more than well and
it seems like like that that NASCAR like the playoff system is is like taking that to just
like this like almost absurd degree of just like no we're just going to completely fucking gamify it
like you you know you go the whole season and then we're just going to like roll the dice and start
over i have a theory about that because i think like the big uh you know the big sport in europe
is um footy soccer soccer which is which is um two american eyes uh comically boring it's
the extremely boring sport um and so when people look at the racing product they're like it's
the baseline understanding of sports is that they're very boring and that they're not fun to watch um
and that you're just there um
you know there's an experience there's like a a spectacle or whatever but it's like
you're not expecting anything to happen during the course of the game uh any events to transpire
well the excitement is in the you know it's like the most exciting game is like the the 00 tie
whatever where it's just like this you know this constant like it's like edging you know it's like
this constant tension of yeah it's like like where nobody ever gets off will will an event
transpire while i'm here in the stadium today no okay great uh but we all had a great time
but the in america the the big sport obviously uh you know probably you'd say today would be
football or basketball but mostly football which is like the most packaged and televisible and like
um i mean that's why football is popular i think is because it is so uniquely suited to
broadcast and like the spectacle but it's also just like the commercial the commercial breaks
are built in but like the the mechanics of the game where it's like discrete action for seconds
with a break right with discrete action for seconds and everything is also like
very events like very concrete as far as like um you know the way that scoring happens and the way
that like like there's there's a lot of action happening um with the breaks but um so i think
not a lot of ambiguity yeah so i think that and there's no um there's there's or not as much um
what do you call it not as much uh nuance to kind of like understanding what's going on it's like
these big men are hitting each other um this one throws it it's you know what i mean that's not
there is obviously nuance to understanding like harvard just we're penetrating each other's
territory exactly i would say i think if for if you haven't had it explained to you if you've had
football explained to you from a young age it's intuitive but i think coming in from an outside
perspective if you haven't football remains somewhat arcane as a sporting event um it's very chaotic
like hockey but the the television product i think is very um even if you don't know about
football like the television product is still kind of like accessible as far as like there's a lot of
shit happening you know like um like people are scoring there's excitement you can watch a number
go up that's true you can look at numbers and you do see that one is higher than the other and then
someone moves and there's the violence aspect there's like the violence aspect of it that's
like accessible but the i guess my point is in in the mind of the american racing executive
this is a huge problem and i think like if you look at the way nascar has explained the playoffs
over the years it is a pretty transparent self-consciousness about how much more popular
football is than nascar and i think like against the cup race yeah and i think like in typical
american fashion uh nothing can just be what it is you know it's got to be uh what it is relative
to the other the other more popular thing so it's like it's not enough well i mean what's what's
the what's their big the biggest nascar race is the Daytona 500 and what is it always always
described as the super bowl of nascar in all things we are differing and differing that's just
it's yeah and i think it's like that competitive and i think like i said you can imagine and you
have to imagine because they've they've kind of described this process but like trying to figure
out okay how do we like the the nfl playoffs is like the biggest um television sporting event in
in the in the us it's a huge um it's a huge um several weeks long event and you can imagine
like nascar's like how do we do that because and the other the other thing too obviously is like
several times they've had uh situations where the driver's championship is locked up with five
races to go and then nobody watches the last five races and like that's a huge problem for them
but instead of just saying you know like how do we improve our television package or whatever
it's like what if this was a different sport is i think the answer that they came up with
well that's the thing is it's like it's it's i mean it's it's it's fucking like square peg
round whole shit i mean it's like the way these sports work is is different at a fundamental
level it's like the reason that playoffs work in football is because the way that football works is
you have 32 teams and every weekend those teams are pairing off and playing each other right the
way that racing works is you have you know let's say 32 team whatever you know the number is um
and they all play each other and there's one winner yeah in each race it's not like it's not
like you have like the cars pairing up and racing it like if you did it that way right you know if
you had like 16 races a week yeah then that then a playoff system where it's like elimination rounds
or whatever would make sense but that's not how racing works and also it's like if football
works that way it would be like all 32 teams on the field at once yes right which i'm not against
which that could actually be pretty cool i'm not against that idea no exactly maybe we could try that
right but that's the thing about like watching phoenix is it's like okay it's these four guys who
are fighting for the championship whichever of the four of them gets over the finish line first
is the champion but another guy could beat them and one of the 38 guys could hit them and crash them
in the final race it's the maker break it's crazy it is insane these are not analogous
situation i mean i i fully agree with you roe but i think like like what you're the comparison that
you're you're you're making just is like illustrates perfectly there's like why why this is so dull
yeah no it's it i remember i mean i remember like when it was announced i mean like that's
stupid like that doesn't make any sense yeah no this is like for me it was just the head
scratcher and it's like wait what it's the you know to me it's like
the uh
to me the the thing of it is is like
in my head if i if i was confident in the product
as a NASCAR executive or whatever my head would not go to okay we have to just do the thing that
the other be like okay what what can we do to make our existing product which we think is very good
better at the end of the season you know like and i think there's a lot of a lot of ways too to
add interest to those last last five races of the year like you know and make them kind of
lead into the the next season or whatever but like yeah just the the most convoluted
and the thing is too it is one of those things that i don't think anyone likes it's like
the drivers the teams are like what the fuck like how okay what yeah also like the feeling
of of having like one the most races in the year and not winning is gotta be just like
breaking so many records in your first season in the fucking second tier NASCAR series and like
it's one race decides whether you get like the the like you can be a regular season champion and
well and it just yeah and the thing is i mean it sucks for for the driver but it's it also
it's also just like totally detrimental to to the the the league or the you know the series
in terms of just like promoting itself and marketing itself because now you have this
this like you know young rising star who's like super marketable and you know somebody who could
be like a total draw and and and um and bring people you know in and now you you can't promote
him as as a champion when he should be the champion you know and and and it's like it's it's it's just
like yeah i mean it's like shooting yourself in the foot yeah star power thing is huge NASCAR
campuses is a big criticism of the the playoffs format is that it has really diminished the
capacity for star power in NASCAR with like either you have a favorite driver right now that you
already decided on or like you have to come into it sideways like how did i get a favorite
driver in NASCAR i didn't through IMSA i picked two guys out of a Corvette and decided i was
gonna follow what they were doing in NASCAR like i wouldn't know who's popular in NASCAR without
going in and digging around like i think i think the bigger problem well it's two problems i think
one it's it's on its face unserious it's like this is not it's not a serious thing
it like it makes it hard to take the entire operation seriously um totally but i think the
the biggest sin in the biggest sin you can you can commit in in um in sports and in and kind of
like televised entertainment is it's fucking inscrutable like it's no one knows yeah what's
how many stage points was this how many for this one what do you get for that and that is just
that is just like a again that is the greatest like you should be able to turn it on and ascertain
what's happening fairly quickly and i maddy your point about football is not lost on me i think
like you know because football is like it's such a huge part of the cultural firmament in america
i think i i generally assume that like it's um better understood than it probably is but
but NASCAR is a niche niche like people don't uh your high school didn't have a NASCAR team
it's resource intensive yeah but my thing is like i was raised in a family that was nuts about
NASCAR on both sides it was like one of the few things both sides of my family like agreed on
like at the holidays i would go to either side of like you know my divorced family's households
and see the grandparents and it's like what is everyone into everybody loves dale senior
that's fine we can all talk about NASCAR at the table or whatever at that when we all show up with
chorus concert and stuff but like for for me it does feel like like for me NASCAR is like football
is for other people but i will say too like we do know that there is a market for a product that is
sort of slower moving and works unto itself in american sports because we still televise
baseball people do there is still a market for baseball people not everyone is my mother who
hates baseball but like some people like that the game is slow and it does what it needs to do and
it's functional and it works at the end of the day you know what you're doing and like you can't do
that system either for the end of the year figuring it out but like it's still the the the sensation
of watching baseball is not untenable to the american mind like in it's like total consciousness
like there are people who like baseball and there are people who would like racing as it is without
having to be like insane and maybe like i don't know maybe uh if you want something that's like
super crazy and going really fast uh everyone should have to get into watching wrc yeah because
it's awesome yeah i mean i think yeah it it is a very funny phenomenon something that you see like
in american business especially i guess i wouldn't say in an entertainment business but in business
in america in general there's this like undergirding of of kind of insecurity around so many of these
businesses where it's like um we get a growth but and it's like yeah obviously like there's the the
the capital capitalist incentive of of growth um at all costs or whatever but
it is it's expressed in this kind of tryhard earnest um insecure mail thing which is like
it's so funny to watch do you like me please you have to like and it's please please please it's
like it or so many times too it's like um it's expressed in like or that part of it is expressed
in like this um inability to kind of believe in your own shit where it's like um you know you
you make a huge change in the minute somebody criticizes that you're like i'm sorry you know
we'll we'll change it again and it's like it or like uh yeah we'll cancel that car like you're
right people didn't like it you're right no you're you know but it's like uh immediate apology immediate
kind of like um right and like the reactiveness or just like a fear of sticking to your guns on
something where it's like right you know in my where it's like like the fi is more like the
catholic church where it's just like no you're wrong oh fuck you these are the rules you're not
watching any way for me the one viewer ships down that's your fault right right exactly
it's it that's true we can't help it the fans are stupid what do we you know what do you want
yeah well even if you do make a great product like i've just mentioned w r c like rally is awesome
like it's and i talk about a spectacle that is well shot and well commentated and has like you
established talent that people like um oh on that note do we see that uh it's what is what is it um
like the past seven years oi tannock and martin ur violla have been driver co-driver and they are
leaving w r c uh they're they're lead their hundays losing hundays losing the big dog um that's
gonna be i mean i don't know if hundays actually staying with w r c because that's been kind of
big topic but um crazy and like newville and wide agar having kind of a bad season after
winning uh last year but oi going out is crazy yeah i remember when i started in the series
i remember a week podcast we're talking about w r c all the time and every week it's more about
oi tannock and you know i mean those guys is he is he just retiring to like the countryside or
does he have plans to do something else or both of their statements were like um
they're not done with rallying but uh uh both oi and uh martin are leaving at for the at the very
least leaving uh w r c as a series and uh oi was mostly like i'm getting older i want to be there
for my kids more um it was kind of a thing where it's like you get into your late 30s in racing
and you kind of think about like what else you might want to be doing but um do i want to die
doing this right well and i mean hunday still has um newville and wide agar they're great they
still have formo and korea those guys are great they're really fun they just had a crash the
day where korea's door got ripped off the car they're driving down the road like talk about like
w r c is great for getting like great video of fun stuff happening to a hatchback uh but it's
oi tannic and martin yovia like seven years a long time for that to go and like it was very
sweet because i saw weight was retiring and i'm like is martin gonna drive with somebody else
and then the statement came out a little later i was like nope martin's going too like i think
w r c is so cool because like the the the concept of like your motorsport relying on um that like
really um that lets like symbiotic relationship and like the the whole thing going on there is
so cool and like people don't know about it and like it makes me crazy because like if you could
have explained to like tumblr in 2011 there's a motorsport where it's like hey these two guys
have to put each other's lives in their hands and drive at like 110 miles an hour in the woods
like everyone would have gone crazy but no one knows about rel it drives me insane it's like
if you guys knew this i mean there's some there's some fanfic potential there don't get me started
for sure don't get me started don't get me started but if people knew about it they would love it
this is the problem with w r c mary this is the cry of the rally fan for my entire adult life i
when i was a kid like a literal kid i would stay up till three in the morning to watch
w r c live because they had it on uh speed network
yeah um it's so and i was like this is great and everybody who watches it is like this is great
this is so cool and yet uh it is not not very popular here in the states um baffling to me
and it's like it does all the stuff you wanted to do like talk about like i think it's happening
in the woods and it's happening and it's fast and there's a break like w r c does have football
pacing yeah it's just like i don't know and the cars go like 20 horizontal feet leaping through
the air and laying on their skid plate and it's like how are you not how is how is this not like
a thing that americans love like what marketing failure on a total scale has happened that rally
is not like like an american why did that not get adopted as our thing why are the europeans
like lapping us the thing we should be like super into it's crazy to me it's it's like it doesn't
make sense it uh it's just one of those things there needs to be rally with with with just like
big v8s and i mean they're trucks or something there is they do do that in this there's a couple
running around in the in a r a um yeah bless r a but the um yeah that's just i've never understood
either but it's also like um oh i mean god i mean fucking like i mean there is there is rally with
with v8s and trucks and it's just like it's desert desert even more obscure even more and that's
been going on for us understand it's just like a complete complete niche you know sport as well
yeah people at the end of the f1 move you're like what's this i don't know what this i have no frame
of reference for what's happening at the end of this film where he's going into the desert to
drive a truck or something and it's like we do need like a blockbuster film about rallying or
something we need no we need a we need some reeducation uh program to get people out yeah
no the uh okay first of all the rally camps yeah that's part two of our program you're getting
predisposed to motorsport um then europeans for some reason i think like uh it is bizarre isn't
it it is i i think like you know there are certainly is it that we're is it like the familiarity of
the car for us that it doesn't have as much mystery as it does for like europeans who walk
more places as the car hold more allure for them more romantic is it famil familiarity breeding
contempt in a way for us of like we love the car we hate the car we love the car we hate the car
all americans think that they can drive i think it's i mean we're not impressed by the motorsport
i could do that i drive every day i mean for much of the 20th century though um i mean it's never
i don't think i well i i don't know i don't know if there's a way to to quantifiably measure this
but i mean but but but indy car yeah you know was a huge huge deal in this country for for much
of the 20th century nascar at the you know in the 90s i know man was like was as big as i mean
you know i don't know about like in terms of numbers or whatever just like culturally probably at
the time it was like yeah like in the 90s it was as big as the nfl yeah i mean it was a
fucking huge deal that's the soup i grew up in man you know they they kind of over
you know it was a bit of of overreach and and saturation that it's kind of come back down
since then but um yeah there was that moment there there are peaks peaks and valleys i think in
in americans like fascination with certain types of motorsport but i think just overall it feels
like the kind of baseline popularity of motorsport like globally like wrc formula one like formula
one is the biggest sport in the world everywhere but here um yeah and it like that's out it's been
well it's not bigger than soccer though but yeah i mean it's i yeah yeah i guess i think
soccer is the biggest sport in the world sure okay but but it's in the it's certainly in like
that conversation right like it's like yeah it's yeah it's up there's less yeah um
but and i think that solid solid number two yeah and i but i think there's like less um
just kind of like variability like i said those those peaks and troughs but i think like
you know americans i feel like have to be given kind of a reason to get into to motorsport like
they have to have like a personality or like a manufacturer or some kind of a spectacle that's
like appealing or whatever but um but i think like like i said the the baseline understanding in
europe is is different do you think part of it with americans might be that we are so especially
with sports we are so um the the geographical enforcement is very strong like you're encouraged
from a young age to see like all of the sports logos for your specific geographical area and like
there is not that kind of thing for motorsports and like the tribalism inherent to sports in
american culture is like really strong like i was raised a cowboys fan eagles territory so there's
exceptions to the rule um but like you do really get that shared sense of affinity and in america
like uh we can't get that from anything else because our politics are all completely incoherent
and so we have to get it through sports and like maybe there's not as much of an opportunity for
motorsports outside of like that like culture personality stuff for manufacturer loyalty and
even then it's kind of like you know oh so what are you a guy or whatever but like there there
there is a thing about sports that does play into that american need to like manufacture affinity
with other people um and like motorsports it doesn't give people an easy in for that which is like
you know it doesn't seem to be a problem for other people like other countries are like
i'll pick a you know manufacturer i like or a driver or whatever and support them in this series
well i mean in in f in f1 kind of historically i mean kind of nationalism was a huge part of
you know back in the day well there's still a feeling there's still a vibe of that now when
when the cars when you know when the italian cars were red and the british cars were green
and the french cars were blue etc etc i mean they were that for a reason and that that was a big part
of of the appeal for spectators you know it was just rooting for their own yeah well and it's
funny like i found out recently that there's um because of some of my uh cultural research i've
been doing uh on the good old archive of our own there's actually a sizable fan base of f1
writing stuff in mandarin and posting it online and stuff oh yeah like there's extra extra european
interest in the series and like brand manufacturer loyalty coming in from all kinds of places now
i feel like maybe there's like uh um maybe with the internet too there's more of a sense of like
diffused uh identity and diffused loyalties and things more so than the the the um urge toward
that like uh geographical affinity but like yeah i do wonder like there's probably there's a lot of
stuff that we've touched on for like why motorsport doesn't quite land with americans even though like
we are the country of people who are fucking obsessed with our cars and have to have our fortress
that is our car um i think i think i i mean hey fellas uh great pod convo like that's good
shit uh i love when we just like get in there and chew on something yeah i think we i think we've
got some good stuff yeah yeah should we wrap it up um do you guys have like an extra like like
five or ten i just i just wanted to share oh please um just like a recent just kind of um
like oh you know we were talking last episode about kind of about alloy and and and how it
represents uh or evokes kind of the internet of of yore yeah um and i and i had a kind of
old school what felt like an old school internet um experience of just you know where you're just
kind of surfing and and and one thing leads you to another and then you end up finding something
that kind of reinforces your entire worldview um um there was a a story a couple of weeks ago
on daily sports car uh obituary for this this guy named john graham um who was a uh sports car
driver um and uh passed away two weeks ago at the age of 58 after a long battle with cancer
best remembered in history as a class winner at Le Mans um but will it be remembered by those who
knew him as a man driven by his passion for motorsport a proud canadian john's standout career
result came at Le Mans in 2000 when he shared the win in the then brand new uh lmp 675 glass with the
all canadian teammates scott maxwell and greg wilkins and a multi-matic motorsports run lola
blah blah blah blah goes on to list his his accomplishments and accolades um i i didn't know
this guy was but um i'm reading about that and i i just saw like the name the name greg wilkins
kind of uh uh struck me and in in conjunction with being canadian uh this guy being canadian
i was like my canadian wilkins canadian um and i thought um i wonder if he is related to
this guy mark wilkins who is one of the uh heard a autosport hunday drivers who um
who i met years ago and and he's been driving those those hundays ever since and um in sky mark
wilkins um super good dude he uh he's kind of like he's he's like like the veteran in that that
fleet of drivers and he was at the time you know like when they started that program in 2019
and um and he's he's often been paired i think he's he's been in a couple of those the championship
sharing uh crews over the years um and he's frequently paired with with with younger drivers
and kind of serves as like a you know mentor and and uh to them but um uh so i started googling
i was just curious you know it's like not uncommon for for people in racing to you know have
come from from families in racing obviously um and uh and so sure enough this guy greg wilkins
who was a who shared this this limo win um in 2000 with this guy who just died um was uh uh
mark wilkins father um and so now i'm reading about him he uh avid motorsports enthusiasts
per his wiki avid motorsports enthusiast in 2004 along with his son mark uh they competed
in place third in their class at the relics 24 blah blah did some other stuff um wilkins was
diagnosed with brain cancer in march 2008 um died in 2009 at the age of 53 uh in toronto
very sad um but also um this wiki page is not about not primarily about his his racing career
it is primarily about um his career as a canadian businessman and chartered accountant
um who worked spent much of his career with this this uh this company called barric gold
corporation the world's largest gold producer so of course can a canadian mining um
like as we all know it's like always the question with with with racing and and racing families
right it's like okay so where's this where's this money coming yeah um and so yes wilkins
originally joined barric gold corporation 1981 rising to the post of chief financial officer
left in 93 uh became c o of this other horsham corporation uh oh that was the controlling
shareholder of barric at the time um remained with the company until uh the planning of his
conversion into a real estate trust in the us wilkins assumed to the position of president
of barric gold corporation in 2003 um was instrumental during his tenure at barric in
the takeover of rival placer dome placer dome for some us 10 billion dollars was a director
of a company for 12 years um so okay so now now i got to go read about barric gold corporation
of course um and yeah it's um mining corporation company that produces gold and copper it has
mining operations and projects in argentina canada chile cote divoire uh democratic republic of the
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