Ferrari Speciale vs Porsche GT3 RS: Are We Being Played? | Winter Car Prep, Listener Q&A + More

Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where horsepower meets conversation from supercars

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Buckle up, hit the gas and let's go full throttle into today's episode.

But you guys, you guys don't care about the Dodgers or I mean, if there's if there's a world

series that the rest of the country pretty much could give to craps about, it's the Dodgers

playing the Blue James, like the Canadian Toronto versus Los Angeles.

I'm pretty sure this is going to be the lowest ratings world series in history, I'm sure.

There's been some good games, though.

I mean, there's been, you know, a couple of good games there already, though.

Well, yeah, when the long one was pretty wild, 18 innings, I did not make it to that.

My wife rallied through with her mom.

So wow.

Good for them.

Are you guys talking about hockey or is this this this isn't for me.

It's sports ball, by the way, teams sports ball.

I watch like one World Series game a year.

Like I won't even bother with the Stanley Cup.

Maybe one NBA game.

Like I don't.

Yeah.

So I'll tell you guys one race was good, though.

That one race was entertaining.

Oh, yeah, it was actually.

Yeah.

So Casey, Julie and I and his wife and his dog are walking in and downtown Durham.

And we go we're staying in this light and I look over my shoulder and there's this

really big cool looking bowl and Julie points it out.

OK, we're not sports people other than formula one.

And then Casey, you remember this?

And the guy I go, what the hell's up with the bull?

That's really enjoy is like admiring it or whatever.

And he goes, there's a guy standing behind us.

And what did he say?

Casey basically called me a dumbass and said, it's the bull Durham's ever seen

the movie or he said something like that.

And I go, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

And I guess we're near a sports stadium.

Yeah, that definitely happens.

The dirt.

I wasn't going to correct him.

No, I thought it was funny.

In case you were not convinced, I don't know about anything other than formula one.

Hey, guess what?

We are recording.

This is full trial talk.

Welcome back.

We have a really fun show for you today.

As promised, we're going to be getting to listener questions.

We're going to be doing that right away.

We've got a special show this week.

We're going to be focusing on proper winter car storage.

Don't worry.

It's not as boring as it sounds.

We've got a lot of great automotive news.

This is going to be a fantastic show.

We've been preparing for a little over a week.

The four of us to really do a great job for all of you.

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Casey's got one on storage.

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All right, guys, welcome to this week's show.

And I'm going to start out with Dave Van Epps.

David, what did you do in cars this week?

Minor, just minor stuff.

No big deal.

I just took delivery of this lovely GT3 RS behind me here.

By the way, Dave, it's so nice to see the actual car versus your avatar car we've watched for,

I don't know how long, two months.

So it is cool to see the actual car.

Or is that an avatar and you're pulling out?

It's not an avatar.

If you look closely back there above the car, as is typical for the Porsche dealer,

you know, it's welcome Dave to Porsche Northlake, right?

To come and pick up your car.

So they gave me the full, I got to unwrap it, right?

So I, oh, too much coffee.

Yeah, the unwrap again.

That was great.

And had some family there and they helped me do all that.

And then this was kind of the next day I went and picked it up.

We had to put PPF on the front of the car.

They did a very nice job with that.

This is Porsche Charlotte Northlake, the new dealer that's here in the area.

They did a very nice job on the delivery.

It came with the full, you know, black curtain over the top of the car.

And they revealed it and did all that fun stuff.

Unfortunately, because the weather has gone to shit here, I have, you know,

I have not had a chance.

I think I put maybe 50 miles on it so far.

Certainly interesting driving impressions since I have not,

I had not driven one of these before I bought it.

Well, talk about that.

I mean, first of all, is this your first, this seems to me like this is a really

unique experience.

Have you had anything bought anything like this before?

Or is this like peak car experience?

Certainly, it's probably the most expensive car I've ever bought, Tim, for sure.

There's no question about it.

I've obviously owned other 911s.

I've owned modern 911s, but the GT3 RS is certainly the highest end

and the most elaborate expensive car that I've ever bought.

Having said that, it's really quite an amazing machine.

Even in the 50 miles, you can kind of figure out what's going on.

It really is.

And it's because of the PDK and the way the PDK works,

it actually shifts a lot more like a manual transmission car than you would think.

Really does.

It's especially in the downshift.

When you're downshifting and you're rolling up to a light,

those last couple of downshifts really feel much more like a manual transmission car.

It's kind of cool.

I really didn't really dig in it.

And the one pro tip that I offer is that they drop you in this thing with the seats all the way down.

And when I first got in it, I felt like a kid.

I was sunk so far down into the car looking up over the wheel and the hood

that I really felt like, holy crap, this thing is huge.

I mean, and it is a bigger car without question with the arrow

and the body kits and some of the other stuff.

But I just had to raise the seat up a little bit and it kind of gave me my normal 911 view.

And it was great.

I mean, it's going to be a lot of fun.

I expect to drive this thing around a good bit and take it to some events

and take it on some drives.

And I'm really excited to have it.

You got the torture seats, right?

I did.

Yes.

Yeah.

I'll be working on those.

I'm already looking at some inserts and some lumbar support changes.

And the other thing that I really think is that you have to raise the nose of those seats up a little bit.

The brackets have to come up maybe an inch or so at the front just to get that rake right.

Otherwise, it just they feel like they sit too upright.

They're probably great for a race driver, but not as a car that I'll just drive around.

Well, congratulations.

We're all very happy for you.

I was hoping, Dave, that you would be the first person to leave the delivery wrapping on

and just go to a cars and coffee like that.

Let me just suggest that I thought about keeping it, Paul.

I will tell you, I did think about keeping it.

That would have been so cool.

Imagine just rolling to a cars and coffee and the whole time everyone's like,

what color is it?

And then you leave.

And that'll be your thing.

You'll be the guy who never removed his delivery wrapping.

I love it.

There's so many inappropriate drugs to come to mind.

I'm sure I can still get it.

Hey, so Paul, what did you do in cars this week?

Well, the big thing I did was Radwood.

I don't know if you have any of you guys been to a Radwood out by you?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

It's great.

Great events.

For our genre, and those who don't know, it's a celebration of automotive 80s and 90s

and also everything around it.

And kind of like Goodwood, people dressed the part I did not.

I was in my mobility scooter.

And someone said I should have come as Lieutenant Dan from Forrest Gump.

Paul, you dress the part every day.

So like, I don't know.

I do.

Maybe a flat t-shirt never goes out of style, man.

You know what I'm saying?

Never does.

You know, when Steve Jobs said, you know, why spend the mental energy figure out what

different to wear, I was like, there it is.

That's why he's cute.

So that's your motivation for addressing like a slacker, which is Dave's point,

is basically you're essentially mimicking, you're channeling your inner Steve Jobs.

Yeah.

You have so much mental energy that you can't waste it on what to wear.

So you wear.

I mean, that totally makes sense.

You and Einstein, right?

Every time I think of Paul Kramer, I automatically think of Steve Jobs.

And now I'm totally make sense.

I'm an asshole.

I park in handicap spots now.

Oh, that is an advantageous.

That was his M.O.

He would just park in handicap spots and never get license plates.

Never get license.

Oh, he's such a dick.

But anyway, just a few pictures, you know, even the little kids were dressed up.

But probably one of the coolest things, and I don't think people completely understood it,

was the Peterson was involved, which to me, I was a little surprised because the Peterson

did this whole 80s, 90s exhibit, and it almost seemed like a ripoff for Radwood.

And I was thinking, are they kind of taking away the thunder?

And then they came and celebrated.

What people don't realize is, I mean, this was the first big Batman mobile.

That's my friend, Laura, that Porsche girl, photo bombing.

But, you know, this was for people, our genre, the first real Batman after the silly cartoon

with whatever that Pontiac.

Was it a Pontiac that was the Batmobile?

That just looked horrible.

We're talking about from the 60s?

Yeah, from the 60s, where they would punch people and would go like pow.

Pow?

Yeah.

At a West in Burt Ward.

And it was a, I want to say it was a Futura.

Like that was what it was based on.

How the hell bro?

Dave, you know too much.

What the hell, bro?

How did you even remember that?

Oh, man.

Oh, Batman guy, you know?

Him, you know, he's got a room in his house.

Oh, no, that was just, that was just too much.

The lunch pail.

He's got this.

He walks around with a mask on.

I remember being like,

Wow.

Going to the Onondaga County War Memorial in Syracuse, New York with my father to see

the Batmobile, right?

And I loved it.

Oh, that was the original one from the 60s, though.

It was, it was great.

And I would agree with you, Paul, though.

This is kind of the next one.

But isn't Jay involved in this somehow?

Isn't he?

No, that's I think a little different one.

The next generation or the Tumblr.

But Casey, you have a point there.

He drives around in his car unwrapped, unmasked, and he wears his Batman mask around.

We're learning more stuff.

But anyway, what was really cool about this was you just don't get to see it.

And when I got there, I wish I should show the picture, I got there early.

There was no one around it.

And it was, I mean, it's massive.

But when you look close up at it, the details are really nice.

But then they brought, when was the last time you saw an EB-10?

Never.

I should have taken another picture because next to it was an NSX-R.

The EB-10 is smaller than the NSX.

It is surprisingly tiny when you think of, you know, Veyron and Chiron and how big those cars are.

This car was one of my favorites.

It won Best Import Truck.

It was an original, unrestored, I think an 8084 truck with a three-wheel ATV in the back.

But, you know, the best part is, I mean, look at the variety.

You got a, this was a Volkswagen Caddy, which is the pickup truck with one of the

crappiest era Rolls Royces.

I mean, I'm surprised it got there under its own power.

But, of course, in, you know, Harlequin, I mean, I've, who doesn't want,

I would love to take a mark for, you know, 337 in Gulf R and make it a Harlequin.

But of course, even though it was a 25th anniversary, which makes me throw up in my

mouth a little bit, a Kuntosh.

Next to KC, probably the nicest 944S2 I've ever seen.

I mean, insane.

So that was it.

Radwood, awesome.

Very cool.

They're all over, the guys at Driving Well Awesome started it, and they're just a good

group.

And if you're, you know, not to promote them, but I have to go to one of their events,

you'll love it.

Does Heggedi own that mouthball?

Yeah.

I'll tell you, just if you have a second Tim for a funny story, I've known the Driving

Well Awesome guys for years.

They live in Santa Cruz.

They're really nice guys, and they're us.

I mean, well, not you, Tim, but they're blue color.

Oh, okay.

No, they are, you know, they just average car guys.

You know, they don't have expensive cars or anything.

This was March of 2022.

I'm on my way to Hill Country Rally, and I get a call from one of the founder, one of

the DWA guys, there's three of them.

And he's like, hey, Paul, I'm looking for a 355 Ferrari manual.

Berlinetta, maybe a GTS.

Now, you got to understand, these three guys, they drive $10,000 cars on rallies.

And I was like, Art, that's at the time.

I was going to say, that sounds like art.

Yeah, I go at the time, that was maybe $100,000 car.

Then they quickly became $150,000.

I go, that's really expensive.

He's like, yeah, and I don't want red.

I'm like, oh, that's going to be really tough.

I don't know anything I'll let you know.

30 minutes later, I get a call from Warren, and he's like, I'm looking for an E36.

You know, my budget's 20 grand, E36M3, which for him, he was driving an E30 that was

worth five grand.

And I was like, OK.

And then about an hour later, Lane calls me and goes, I'm looking for any G50 Carrera

Targa in not black, but it's got to be a Targa or a non-G50 Targa in not black and an interesting color.

Ultimately, I end up selling him a black 87 Carrera.

But I finally said, what the heck's going on?

He goes, oh, you didn't hear the news because we've been driving out to Texas on a three-day rally.

He goes, no, we sold the thing to Unhaggerty.

And I was like, which for them, you got to understand, this was the greatest news for them.

This isn't like a, you know.

Hey, Paul, this was a short story just so I know I have the gauge.

All right, I'm done.

But anyway, that's why I promote it.

I think they're great guys.

Warren and Art still are heavily involved, and they curate a really good show.

And they have, I don't know, a dozen of these all over the country every year.

So find yours and go.

Well, I think I'm going to substitute my budgeted time for car week and start going

to more of these types of events.

Because frankly, I enjoyed love so much that that's definitely the plan for 2026.

Oh my gosh, do you guys believe it's almost 2026, by the way?

All right, so Casey, cars this week.

Not a whole lot.

Majority of the time has been spent doing work things, inspecting cars for auctions,

that kind of stuff.

I did get out a little bit in my FJ62 over the weekend.

I try to exercise it often.

It's traditionally the winter car when there's not salt and snow on the ground.

But just nice, drive slow, car slow.

Really enjoyed it.

I knew that Paul was going to Radwood, so I figured I'd do something very rad-centric.

And it's hard to beat a old, boxy 1980s SUV.

Definitely.

My cars this week was we took our 718 Spider RS out.

And this is before the weather turned.

I think Dave will attest to the fact that in North Carolina, definitely got winter fast

and had a fantastic time.

We originally went out wanting to drive for an hour and stayed on the road for three hours,

driving nothing but backcountry roads around Appalachian, Smoky Mountains.

So it's fantastic.

And oh my gosh, what a brilliant car that is with the top down.

I don't know how.

Like I was driving it and I told Julie, I don't think I need a car that sounds better,

shifts better, accelerates better, brakes better, it looks better.

I just got had one of those little peekish experiences.

Do you guys ever experience that before where you're driving a car and like said,

I don't give a shit, this is it forever?

Paul, what was your car that you had that experience in?

I think if I'm on a rally, almost every rally, I'll have that Nirvana moment.

I mean, even the last rally, I was in a four cylinder, underpowered,

McConn, base stripper model.

And we're driving on 191, formerly Highway 666, which is 75 miles of twisties.

And I've got old Porsches in front of me, old Porsches behind me.

And you're just, you just have this moment, you forget where you're at.

It's just sort of this out of body.

Yeah, it's, it's driving euphoria.

That's by the way, ultimately, the reason that people like driving.

And that's the reason the drivers, when they describe being in the zone,

it's essentially, and it's been, this has been tested, it's not just me theorizing,

but it's the same state that someone gets into when they're meditating.

Because you're forced to be present.

And when you're driving a car that's complicated to matriculate

the manual transmission, and maybe it's not the friendliest of things to drive,

it forces you to concentrate more.

That's ultimately the reason that driving an interesting car on a hard,

complicated road is so seductive.

You know, for those, for the two people listening that give a crap about that

interesting stuff, I thought passing along.

Casey, what was your, what was the, what was your car where you said it doesn't

have to be better than this?

Um, I've been that way in my dad's triumph.

I've been that way in my 914.

But the most recent experience was a couple of, I think I talked about it on here

a couple of months ago where I took the 964 out.

Right weather, right noise, right road, just, you know, flow state was really good.

I'm going to suggest to you, Dave, you're about to experience it

as soon as you get your new GT3 RS out.

That's what you're going to have.

Do you guys listen to music in cars or do you guys just turn everything off?

No, I listen to music, uh, depends.

Yeah, like Casey said, depends.

Yeah, I never do.

I don't think I made occasionally podcasts.

Do you listen to music or do you just chill, Dave?

Oh, I listen to music, but it is very dependent.

If I'm trying to psych myself up for like a drive into mountains,

I'll flip on a couple of songs.

There's definitely a few songs that are like my inspiration.

Get up the mountain songs.

Like, like Yanni.

Red Barchetta.

Yeah, no, not Yanni.

Red Barchetta and Spirit of Radio are my two rush songs that I love to rip up a hill with.

Yeah, I'm going to, we're going to go to automotive news next.

And I have so much to talk about with regards to Speciale,

and I'm going to go first just because I'm on the spreadsheet first.

And because frankly, Dave is prompting me to do that.

So you guys may remember, I had the special,

I had one of the first speciale spots in North America that was offered from our dealership.

And I originally accepted it.

And then the more I basically the further down the rabbit hole I went,

the more I decided not to get it,

which he was shocked by someone backing out of a special Ferrari.

And I have to say in retrospect, I'm really glad that I did,

because it turns out the speciale, as I suspected,

is not as special as the previous versions of the special edition Ferraris.

And specifically, I'll just summarize it by saying this.

Ferrari as much as said that they're not trying to compete with the GT3 RS,

they just basically said the GT, we're not trying to be there.

And I still don't know what the hell the classification of this car is.

Carbon fiber doors, stiffer suspension, a little bit ladder,

but it's not supposed to really be a track car.

What the hell is it then?

And then, so there's essentially saying they're waving the white flag

for the, you know, essentially to compete with the RS.

And then, then, and I don't know if you guys watched any of the reviews,

I'm guessing because it was a Ferrari,

none of you guys did watch any of the videos.

Catch pole one was good.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

And so at the end, every single freaking one of the reporters said the same thing.

Special, but not that special.

And then they went us on to say,

and Ferrari tipped their hat that there's going to be a car

that's going to come above the speciale,

which is going to be, you know, even more special.

I don't know how to make heads or tails of it.

What do you guys think?

You know, it's really weird, Tim,

and this is sort of the infestation of this podcast.

I was reading notes yesterday, going through stuff.

I dreamt about your topic on this,

which makes me irritated because I wasted dreaming.

That's a good sleep gone bad, Paul.

But here's the thing was,

you know how sometimes dreams just get frustrating?

I was so frustrated with you because basically you ordered it

and you were going to not make it to the show.

And I was going to have to host because you were not in Maronello,

but you were somewhere in Europe just deliberating over

what shade of red to get.

And it was such a monumentous thing.

And then to me, it was so petty.

I'm like, no, you have to be hosted.

Just it's Ferrari red.

Just pick a red.

No one will care.

And you were like, no, this one's got,

and I was just going to strangle you

because you weren't going to make the show.

So that was, that's my thought.

Was this the dream or did that happen in real life?

I don't know.

Actually guys, I don't get stuck on options like that.

I never really have.

I'm not, I don't have that kind of,

I'm analytical with regards to cars, but not to that extent.

It was a fever dream for sure.

Yeah, it was a fever dream.

Well, but I mean, seriously, where's this car landed?

I don't know.

It's, we'll have to see.

But I don't understand at all with all these special editions

that Ferrari's coming out with now.

And essentially, if I already really be directed,

it would be simply for me to say that it's clear that they've

abandoned their old customers.

It's clear to me that they're trying to appeal to a younger

audience, which is more just to put it into a category,

the Instagram crowd.

That's what I would say.

I've never, have you guys ever been to a track event

where there's been any kind of Ferrari on the track?

It's always solid Porsches and maybe McLaren's,

maybe a Corvette or two.

Have you ever been to a track event with a Ferrari?

And they go out for one session.

That's the last you see of them.

Exactly.

And now you're never going to see a track.

No, the guy will drive it because he's having somebody

pull in and haul in his GT3 RS, but he'll drive it there

and he'll put it on display.

And this is me and I love Ferrari.

I mean, I have a Ferrari old dealership sign from the 80s

in my living room at home.

So I don't even know what to say, but that's all I have to

say about that.

But it is an exorbitant number of special editions

recently coming out, isn't it?

Crazy.

I mean, because it seems like it was like Enzo, huge deal.

And then there was nothing for like a decade.

And then there was another big announcement.

I mean, Porsche is certainly a victim of this too,

but at least they're consistent.

They've been doing this since the 70s.

They'll find a reason to have a special edition 911 just

to liquidate the end of a run.

But it seems like how many special editions

Ferrari's in the last three years?

I did some homework on this, and I don't want to touch

on future points too much.

But the reality of it is, is if you think about it in the GT,

like the old 488 paradigm, all previous Ferraris

to this generation, you'd have the 488, you'd buy a coupe,

you'd order a spider.

The spider would arrive, you'd sell the coupe,

and then you'd hope and pray that you'd get an allocation

for it in that generation of Pista.

I mean, that's the way it worked.

That was it.

And maybe if you were a driver, you had an allocation

for a Polatti, right?

Now you have the 296 base, which is the GTB.

Then you get the spider.

And then there's the Seto Fiorano.

Then there's the, and there's all these others.

And if you look at how many different cars,

just in the 296 family that they're creating,

it's, I think I came up with eight or nine.

It's pretty extraordinary.

And that doesn't even include the fact

that now the 296, you know, basis of that car

is becoming like their, you know,

what they built the F80 off that car.

It's got essentially the same V6, which is astonishing.

This new, I mean, what are they doing calling a fricking F40?

Even if it's, they've made one of them.

The F40 is a fricking six-cylinder?

Why would you do that?

I know, but seriously, explain that to me.

Why would you do that?

Why would you use one of your most,

and Testerosa before that?

Why would you destroy that lineage?

I just don't get it.

I don't understand.

Case he's right.

Money.

But you know, it's a long time ago,

Ferrari's becoming Porsche, Porsche's becoming Ferrari.

Or trying to.

Yeah.

I think that's, and I guess that's maybe the reason

I find it a little bit, I don't know,

almost offensive to be honest with you

that they're doing this.

Because it's being, we've seen a lot of run-ups and prices

of these previous generation special edition cars,

the specialties of the past.

And I know the guys that are buying them.

A lot of them are my friends.

Not obviously all of them,

but I have had quite a few friends

that are building collections.

And the reason they're doing that

is because the new rules of the larger dealerships

in particular, to be considered

for any of these newer special edition cars,

you have to have a garage full of cars.

And if you want to be considered for an F80,

and I had two friends that asked me

just for information about it,

you had to have, with all the $20 or $30 million

of the cars in your garage, just to be considered for one.

And I don't know, I don't get it.

Makes me love Porsche even more, to be honest with you.

But my fear is to Paul's point,

that Porsche is going to do the exact same damn thing,

especially now that they're Johnson for cash.

So, and any of that, that's my rant.

I guess maybe it's Tim's rant this week.

Paul, Honda's automotive news, Civic Type R.

Yeah, you know, it's, for those who know me,

my first new car was 87 Integra.

I love the Honda product.

I love the Type R. I love the Integra, Type S.

The sad thing is, and the fear of this is,

it won't affect us directly, but it might affect us,

is because of emission laws

and everything else going on in Europe,

the Civic Type R is done in Europe.

But the funny thing I was trying,

I went through the article on this from Car and Driver,

they're coming up with this special edition

called the Ultimate.

It's going to be championship white.

There's 40 of them as a farewell thank you

to the European market.

To me, it seemed like more of a middle finger,

because there's nothing interesting about it,

except that they're all the same.

They got some carbon fiber.

They got some red carpet.

They got a stripe on it.

I was waiting for something that was uniquely different

about this car, but really the big news about it

that kind of frightens me is they made this really,

you know, Europe is the home, the birthplace of the hot hatch,

and one of the most iconic hot hatches is going to be gone.

And then how many more?

What's going to happen to the Gullfahr?

Now, Honda says this is going to come back,

and guess what it's going to come back as?

A hybrid or an all-electric car,

which to me scares me,

because if we lose this kind of,

this is like chipping at what might not come to North America.

If Honda doesn't think they can sell enough of these,

they need the global market,

even though it will pass emissions here,

they may just yank it from the catalog.

And or are we going to get, guess what,

a plug-in hybrid type R hot hatch?

No, thank you.

If you have to choose between that one, guys,

let's have a quick vote.

And the original type R that they brought back to the United States

that people criticized,

because it looked a little bit like a monster,

what would you buy?

Oh, the first one, all day long.

Casey?

If we ever got to my wing conversation,

we would get deep into Civic Type R wings.

I always loved the Civic Type R.

The car I always started Gran Turismo with was an EK

or whatever, the one from the mid-90s.

I always loved that car.

I liked the newest version of the car better.

The other one, the last one,

looks a little bit like Shredder, if you know what I'm saying,

from the Ninja Turtles.

But I know I'm a fan of Civic Type R's.

I love them.

Whoa, that was a Ninja Turtles here going on.

So we've got Dave, who's an OG Batman closet junkie,

and Casey, which is generationally correct,

and Casey loves his Ninja Turtles.

I was always an Ileanardo guy.

Paul and I are the only generation Xers here,

I'm afraid, and that's becoming glaringly obvious.

Oh, perfect.

No, you're almost generation X, Dave.

I have a feeling with your reference to Batman.

All right, so what would you choose, Dave, out of curiosity?

The original Type R?

I would agree with the two other fine gentlemen here.

I would go with the earlier car, personally.

But so that's fascinating.

And there's another undervalued car

that no one seems to really appreciate,

because I like that one too, because it looks crazy, honestly.

I mean, when it came out, it was polarizing.

And then, to Casey's point, the next generation,

they sort of placated to the audience.

But as we've seen as time goes on, it's the stuff that's crazy looking.

And yes, the new one, the next generation, was better in all senses.

But at the end of the day, when these become 20-year-old cars,

they're going to be performance-wise outdated.

So performance comes off the table,

and you're going to look for something that's wildly interesting,

not something that looks almost indistinguishable from an SI or a base one.

In fact, when I see those next ones, yeah, I can't tell the difference.

And you're right, you're going to want stuff that looks like shredder.

Yeah, here you go.

Whoever the hell shredder is.

Casey, you're up next.

So converse to the news on the 296, the press embargo also broke this week

on the new 911 Turbo.

And I'm not going to spend too much time on it,

but it's pretty much what you would expect.

It's a lot faster.

There was a Matt Watson, the car wow guy, actually had one on a dyno.

And it actually made, I think, more horsepower to the wheels

than Porsche even said that it was making to the crank,

which was pretty great.

But that's not my news story this week.

My news story is brought to you by our friend Jeff Glucker,

who posted this article on the Motor1 website about a RestoMod Toyota FJ60 Land Cruiser with

a really cool Tundra Twin Turbo V6, and that Toyota actually built.

Now, I think this is cool because I would really love for Toyota to continue their support

with more historic vehicles, which unfortunately they do some of, but not a lot of,

because there's a whole lot of parts for Land Cruisers that don't exist anymore,

especially body panels, because believe it or not, these things did rust.

So really cool article in SEMA's coming up.

So you're going to see a bunch of interesting stuff,

but it's really cool that Toyota did this TLC 4x4 in Dave's neck of the woods.

They do really awesome like LS3 builds and those sorts of things.

But being that Toyota actually did this to me, I think really shows that they care,

and I'm all about it.

Awesome. Dave, how about you, automotive news that caught your eye?

Well, I think this one's a bit of a little bit of a rehash, and that they,

you know, I think this came out a while back, but now that the patent was actually issued,

this is, and I'll see if I can cover up my head here for those of you who are looking on,

looks like I'm looking at that through a screen out the window here.

Sorry about that picture, but this is the 18-cylinder Porsche motor, right?

So it's kind of like a third of a radial-engined aircraft engine, really.

Six cylinders per bank, four cams on each bank, you know, everything.

Each one turbocharged, right?

Yeah, but individual three turbos on the thing as well.

So one for each bank, and it's set up so that it can either be a,

you know, they can dice it up and have like four cylinders per bank and make it a 12 versus

this. I'm not sure this thing is ever going to get built.

Casey, you probably read something about this as well along the way.

I mean, you've maybe done a bit more research to it.

I just thought it was an interesting piece that I think came out right on the heels

of the announcement of the new CEO from McLaren and this idea that they want to move down

toward this whole performance crack when they're looking at just the sports cars and staying with

the heritage. So some beast may or may not get this thing, but I've seen some 3D renderings

of the motor. It's pretty wild. It's really a pretty cool piece.

I don't know if it'll ever get built or not. What do you think, Casey?

Well, I mean, any innovation in ICE engines, to me, is interesting.

It's a lot more interesting than seeing how many motors they can put in an electric car.

I mean, the fact that they went to the extent to do the development, at least to the point

where they filed a patent, to me, makes it seem like they're hopefully will accomplish something.

Can you imagine what an 18-cylinder or whatever

12-turbo, I mean, it's kind of sound like, you know, I could fit it in a car.

Like, how would you, they say it's the same size as a standard block,

but it's got to be super, it looks really tall. Yeah, super small displacement, I guess.

But I mean, to me, it's sort of that classic, you know, like a dog peeing on a hydrant, you know,

Porsche wants to just go, we got this. And then, like, you know, Dave and Casey said,

it may never see the light of day. I look at it, and maybe Casey, you know more about this.

I look at it is somewhere, you know, that's got this cool V18 or, I don't know.

No, they call it a W. W18. But, you know, is there parts of that that are really important to them

that they're patenting that it's sort of buried in there that will actually make it two cars,

like maybe a V12? I mean, how cool, can you imagine if Porsche, talk about Porsche going

in the Ferrari way, if they made a small displacement twin turbocharged V12 to put in

something and they were hiding it as a crazy V18. They're going to put it in a new 928, Paul.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. But thank God, we're not having the most unreliable car on earth.

Yeah. Well, this one would fit right in, probably, because how can this first generations of this

be good for any car, right? How long is that car, that engine been, I didn't realize it had it back

at years? How long they've been working on that? When was that?

They filed the patent, I think, in roughly a year ago, and then I guess they got the patent

recently, which is why it was kind of put out again. Is this also the six stroke engine?

I know that they were talking about like a six stroke engine, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't think that's this. I don't. Okay. Well, I mean, I don't understand, I get what you guys

are saying that it might be vaporware, but let's just go in the op, let's be optimistic and put

on our rose colored glasses and assume that it's going to make it into the next Porsche

supercar. And we can wave goodbye to yammering about freaking battery packs for a while. I mean,

my God, what about the mission art? What about if they just yank the thing and they shove this in

the mission are and sell that as their new a low car? Totally what we should have a rule. We never

talk about wings. Sorry, Casey, we never talk about battery packs again. Are we full throttle

talk needs have some standards for gosh sakes, except I'm curious what you guys think about the

new this wasn't I'm sorry if I'm stepping on anybody's thunder here. What about this new GT3RS

that supposedly it's going to have a turbo electric turbo or probably turbos. If you guys caught that

as far as news goes, I haven't seen it yet. I saw a repost of a video that somebody took with some

noise where I was leaving the factory kind of that video leaving the factory and doing that.

I saw that too. But isn't this really more of of basically filling gap and shifts? Isn't it more of

a transmission like when the when the car is shifting and losing power for a brief second?

Isn't it more of a fill of that turbo? It's actually I mean what you're proposing sounds

like torque fill, which is what I think the McLaren uses. What Porsche does is it's actually

it's designed to I guess it's similar, but it's designed to spin the turbocharger before

it gets spinning from exhaust gas. Right. So I guess it is kind of similar, but I think it's

designed to not necessarily fill torque, but allow torque to start earlier. That's what the Ferrari

Ferrari does what you're saying, Paul. Basically, essentially, that's the reason you're driving.

People say that 296 feels incredibly fast. It's because it does. It's incredibly fast. It's

always pulling. There's no, you know, but anyway, what do you guys think you're missing the grander

point here about the new GT3RS being let's assume just for the sake of banter that it's going to

be turbocharged. And we could argue whether or not that would ever happen or not till the cows

come home. But just for the sake of conversation, if that's true, I think Dave's sitting in the

cat bird seat as far as values if you ask me, because those types of cars are going to become

more valuable thoughts. And that would mean the GT3 is the only new production Porsche that has a

normally aspirated motor. I have no idea. I didn't get that far in my conjecture. Or if they come out

with a GT4. Look what they just did with the turbo versus the GTS, right? And, you know,

Casey touched on this. So the turbo ridiculous car, GTS ridiculous car, is there enough of

ridiculous difference to justify the turbo price? You know, no, probably. I mean, Matt Farah kind

of said, just get the GTS. So maybe what we're seeing is the GT3 line getting bifurcated in

the same way we're going to start putting turbos. I don't know. I mean, what do you guys think?

I mean, as a guy that sold Porsches new, you know, I didn't have really people cross shopping GTSs

versus turbos. You either you either want turbo turbo s, or you don't want turbo turbo s, you

want something different. Was there enough of a difference then, though? Or was there more of a

difference in the two products, Casey? No, it's always been roughly, you know, 150 ish horsepower.

I think I mean, I saw the same statements that were made. But I don't the turbo aspire wants the

halo car. That's I mean, basically, Porsche goes two ways. You go either the way that is comfortable

to drive. In a 911 turbo s, you could drive it for, you know, the whole way around Germany

across the United States and be comfortable. A GT3 RS is not that car. So they're they're two

different, two different, it's a fork in the road. And Porsche basically creates these echelon

vehicles. And you choose your own adventure effectively. I don't necessarily think there's

cross shopping between the two. Where does it fit if it is true? Where does it fit with the GT2 RS

coming out? Does that mean the GT2 RS is going to have to actually look different? It's not just

going to be another 911 derivative that looks like all the others? Are they going to get kind of wild

and crazy? I don't mean it sounds like the GT3 RS, the GT2 RS are getting very similar. And like you

said, I don't know how they would differentiate. I don't know. Traditionally, the GT3 RS uses the

same engine that they run in competitive racing. And they don't run turbocharged engines in IMSA,

WEC. So I'd be remarkably hard pressed unless there was a huge rule change for them to homologate

something like that to run in a GT3 R or RSR platform that's turbocharged. So I think what

you're seeing is is if that is in fact real and not something somebody built, I believe it's,

you know, them just working on GT2 RS because that's got to be coming soon.

I hope you're right. Honestly, I hope you're right. I hope they don't turbocharge the GT3 RS.

I don't think so. I think it's just, I think it's clickbait.

Yeah, well, it worked for me and evidently it worked for you.

We all saw it.

Yeah, okay, everyone else. All right. So did I get everybody? I think I did, right?

Yeah, okay, I did. All right, so this was a this was a topic that's come up. It comes up every year

if you're from the snow states. So Paul can barely relate. But let's talk about proper winter car

storage. And Casey, Casey manages collections. And how many cars do you manage? Casey like it was

100, right? Just shy. Okay. And Casey goes up and down, but yeah. And Casey doesn't talk about

some of the cars that he manages, just like Dave doesn't talk about some of his build clients that

he has, because they're trying to protect the folks, you know, they don't necessarily want their

collections publicized. But I'm here to tell you, Casey Park and manages some of the most

badass ass coolest cars. And frankly, the full throttle talk that happens during what's app and

before I hit record shows Casey's pictures. And you guys would not believe the stuff he takes after.

So he is, and I actually was preparing my cars for winter storage and asking Casey for tips.

So I thought, well, this must be a relevant topic to other folks as well. So we're not going to

talk about snow tires, we're going to talk about, if you had a car that you're planning on not using

the winter, which is 50% of you, what do we have? What do you have to do to make sure the next time

you turn the key, it actually starts and you don't have to bunch of cell lights on your dash?

All right, Casey, I'm leaving it up to you now. So I'll keep this relatively brief. But there's

basically three things that people need to concentrate on during this time. Number one

is fuel. So we'll just pretend like we'll do two cars, right? We'll do a 1978 SC and we'll do a

modern 911. Okay, a lot of people don't want to drive these cars in the wintertime because

especially in the DC, Maryland area, they use a lot of salt on the roads. And of course,

that's not good for older cars and newer cars alike. So when you park a car up, there are

things to consider. Number one is fuel stabilization. There are a number of different

companies that make fuel stabilization. I use a company called Stable. Stable makes a couple

of different kinds for the majority of vehicles that I take care of. The one on the screen right

now is just called Stable Storage is what I use. And basically, you add one ounce of that to every

2.5 gallons of fuel in the car. I traditionally add it early, like when the tank is a bit lower.

And then I fill up the tank to not to top it off, but just to where the initial click happens. So

let's figure there's roughly 95% of the fuel is in the car. And the reason why I fill the tank up

is the way that this was explained to me when I did a bunch of research when getting into this

is that fuel vapes off when there is a large surface area, meaning if the tank is half fuel,

halfway full, traditionally, there's a larger area in the tank. As the tank gets filled,

it comes up to more of a peak. And when you have that peak that gives that the gas, if you ever

just look at gasoline, you can see the little vapors coming off the top of it. Stable actually

coats the whole fuel system, but it lays at the top of the tank so that it stops that vaping off

of the fuel and keeps the fuel stable for longer. That's basically the way that it works.

I'm not a chemical engineer, but that's the way that it was explained to me by chemical engineers.

So that is the one thing that I recommend for everybody. If you have an older car without

cats, do this at your own, I'll put it this way, caveat is if you blow up your car, it's not my

fault. So I'll go on the record as saying that. But for the cars that I look after that are very

old with carburetors or with mechanical fuel injection or without cats, I traditionally use

AV gas or AV gas, which is 100 octane LL, which means low lead. It has a blue tinge to it and

it's designed, it's really the only gas in the United States that sold that is controlled,

that has absolute standards to it. Because the last thing that people at airports would want

is old gas to happen in an airplane and the airplane to crash. So that's a different story

all together. We're not going to get into that today, I don't believe, but for an older car

like an SC as we discussed earlier, I would use the same principle. There's another stable

product called Stable 360. That is designed also to counteract ethanol and fuel as well,

which is more symptomatic to earlier cars, not necessarily modern fuel injection.

The cutoff case that you and I were talking about this before is basically whether they're fuel

injected or whether they're carbureted, right? So the stable, the stable will work in both,

but if I understand correctly, you're suggesting and I know we won't get into it because it's a

rabbit hole. But when you put the aviation fuel into the cars that have carburetors, right? I mean,

is that kind of what you're saying? Well, I put it, I use AV gas anytime that the car doesn't have

catalytic converters. And it's also a historic car because the lead in AV gas will destroy

catalytic converters. Got it. That's good. So for CIS, basically CIS and before,

I would recommend using something like a Stable 360, something that does counteract ethanol.

Like 964 is a newer, or even Bosch from a Carrera 3.2. That a newer, I would use a normal stable.

Before that, I would use something that also counteracts ethanol because

MFI, CARBS, and CIS all really hate ethanol. So let me ask you, go ahead, Paul. Go ahead.

Well, just two questions about that. And we talked about it on WhatsApp. I had bought

inadvertently when Porsche, and actually your friend, Ray,

convinced me to buy that Porsche Classic came out with a stabilizer. I bought it,

not realizing what it was. I have it. And my question is, how does that compare to the Stable,

the Porsche product stuff? And even for, even though we don't do winter storage, a lot of my

clients and even myself have cars that go like a month or two without driving. Like, when do we

put this in a car that we're not driving that much? And if we put it in the car and then go,

oh crap, I'm going to drive it, does it hurt it? No, doesn't hurt it at all. And I've got cars that

have Stable in them. And they've been on the same tank of gas for over a year. And the gas is

perfectly fine. I think on the bottle, it says something like that. It will keep the gas for

two years. But on a lot of these cars, I don't drive them. The clients don't want miles. I'm

talking things like delivery mile, new Ford GTs, those sorts of things that we're not necessarily

burning through the gas in the car. So that is, as far as the Porsche Classic brand,

who knows, it might just be white labeled Stable. I mean, I'm certain that Porsche put their name

on it and they're willing to guarantee it that it will work in a car. I'm sure that it's perfectly

fine. I use the Stable brand because you can get the can behind me for, I don't think it's like

16 bucks at your local Napa. And to me, that works. And a number of other people that I know

that look after collections that are far more significant than the ones that I look after,

also trust Stable products. All right, so that's the fuel system. Let's move on. We're going to

talk about this is something else I've always heard bad information about tires to prevent them

from flat spotting. First of all, how long does it take for our tires to flat spot? I've never

understood that. Maybe you guys have some information on that. And then also, I'm reading

in the notes that you're suggesting to overfill tires up to 45 psi to prevent flat spotting.

Is that applicable to all cars? That's what I do. And I like I'm sharing a little bit of behind the

curtain, because of course, if you overfill a tire, it has less surface area that it's

compressing on the ground, therefore it have less flat spotting. So the over pressurization and then

resetting tire pressures for the monthly drive that they receive, I believe is important.

If it's a kind of car that you don't put miles on, I wrote I moved the car forward and backward

six to eight inches to make sure that the tires are not laying on the exact same area.

As far as how long it takes, it depends on the tire. I've got a number of cars with cup twos.

I've got a number of cars with cup two Rs. I've got interesting old tires like P 6000s or Pilot

Sport 4Ss or you know, all the it depends on the specific car that you're that you're working with.

But if you are able to drive the car monthly to get heat in the tires to get rid of those flat

spots, that is absolutely my recommendation. But if the roads are absolute crap, I do recommend

just rotating the car back and forth a little bit, maybe doing a lap in your driveway and parking it

back so that the tires are not parked in the same place. So the softer the tires, the faster

they fought spot, right? 100%. Yeah. What do you think about those tire savers, Casey?

So they do exist. I've not made a case for them. I do know that at the Porsche Heritage Gallery,

there often are a number of cars parked on the inflatable tire bags. I'm not sure if you guys

have seen that, but to me, I think Porsche sold them a while ago, but it's an inflatable bag that

you drive the car on top of. And that actually cushions the tire more so than what a preformed

piece of plastic would do. So if that is something that is important to you, go ahead and give it

a run. For me, in my experience of doing this for in two days or in three days, it'll be two years.

I've not had a tire flat spot using my technique that was not already a tire that was worthless,

that I've not been able to bring back in a couple of miles of heat.

All right, let's talk about battery chargers. Now, I'll give you the two sides of it. Some

people say that you just completely disconnect the battery. I've seen some other people with

collections take the batteries out of cars. That seems like a lot of work. But the very least,

basically take the, you know, the disconnect the battery from the car. And then that essentially,

when you put them back in, that's going to cause the, you know, no problems, because there's not

that I forget the fancy term for it, where the cars constantly trying to drain the battery,

even with a charger. Because I've got in all of our cars, I've got those lightweight batteries.

And I've had a lot of problems with them, to be honest, I'm not going to use the brand name,

because I'm trying to do an a claim right now warranty claim on three of them.

So I'll bring it up next week if they don't approve my warranty claim. But the reality

of it is, is all three of those lightweight batteries went, they went, they died. And I had

them on their lightweight chargers too. And I don't know what I did wrong, honestly,

because that's supposed to be the perfect long term storage battery. Any opinions?

What battery? Go ahead. I mean, I live on battery tenders. We've got, you know,

20 of them going at any time in our shop, because I have client cars and my cars always on a tender.

I've gone through C tech. I've gone through the griot's garage and all the different crap.

In the end of the day, a high quality battery tender, I find works better. New cars,

it's just a big no no on anything OBD2 or newer to remove, unhook the battery. It causes more

problems with readiness codes, and all this other stuff. But I find that with a good bat,

I mean, I, here's the biggest problems I see is most people put shit batteries in their cars,

crap batteries. And I see a AAA battery and I'm like, oh my gosh, in old Porsches,

Bosch or Interstate are kind of what I stick with or Porsche brand, which is probably Bosch or,

you know, rebranded. That's a boner. Mollie, M-O-L-L-E.

Yeah. But, but you know, the thing I really, really like, and I hope to, I have this in the GT3,

and I'm thinking about putting in more of my cars is the lithium batteries.

Not only are they really light and they're better than those, you know, dry cell batteries,

the small ones, they're small, but they put them in boxes that fit your car. But the coolest thing

about some of those batteries is now you have a thing, a Bluetooth app where you can see the

healthier battery. And I find that the, the proper chargers that could do lithium, I mean,

they'll go years, but a good battery with a good tender, I'm getting like nine years out of that

battery on average. And that's cars and set. That's a long time. That is amazing. Yeah. Well,

he's also, I don't have. Also, the better big thing that you don't, and Casey probably mentioned,

here in Southern California, I don't have huge temperature swings. Right. But in some of your

guys' states, I think that's the killer as you go from freezing to 100 degrees in a, you know,

in a calendar year. And that's probably not good on the battery. We know for sure.

Yeah, we always see, especially at the dealership, when the wintertime came, you know, you get the

first couple of cold snaps, 35, 40 degrees, that's when batteries died. I have used three or four

different brands of battery tenders. So there, of course, is the battery tender brand for certain

cars. That's perfectly fine. I, any car like a modern, let's say a 991. Yep. So Dave, hold that

up closer to the screen, Dave. Is that the tech? That's the Porsche branded one. There's two different

types of C-tex. Is that the lithium ion one, Dave? Let me look. It'll be blue. I actually won this

fall at Texas Hill Country. And you can see that I've used it. So there are two different types

of C-tex chargers. There's the MX5S or something like that. That is the MSX5. Yeah, that's not the

one you want to use on your car, Dave. Your car has a lithium ion battery in it. You need to get

the C-tex branded lithium ion charger. And the interesting thing about that, this is real nerd

stuff. But if the battery goes dead, meaning you forgot to plug it in or something like that,

there is a reset button on the battery. So basically, if the car gets below it, if the

battery gets below it, I think it's 80 or 85% state of charge, the battery literally turns off.

I'm here to tell you guys that that is from personal experience as of in the last, that's

kind of a myth. Because again, I'm not going to go down the rabbit hole, but there's, I have

exactly what you're describing. And it definitely doesn't work as advertised.

But you have a, are you talking about a dry cell battery or a lithium battery?

No, I'm talking about a lithium battery. Where you push the battery and it gives it

automatic backup, the whole thing. I've got them in all of ours.

So I can't speak to the batteries that are in your cars, Tim, but I do know that on

modern GT3 RS's and every modern Porsche with rear axle steering and Ford GT's and Ferrari

Pista's, I do know that with the appropriate battery that's supposed to be in the car,

the reset button on those battery chargers does work.

There's a level of dead where they don't come back even when you push the button.

Or I have some defective ones from a batch that I bought them all at once,

which I suspect is the case actually. That's probably the case.

That's right. I think it's the case. Yeah. I don't think there's anything about the

tech. I think it's, I think it's a Tim problem. Yes. So, so I am, the battery tenders that I own,

oh, I hate to use, because battery tender is a brand, but I use C-Tech. They actually condition

the battery. I believe you can see the, if you look at the little dots on it and then look at

instructions, you can literally see what those dots mean. And those are the ones that I buy for

my cars. And those are the ones that I recommend my clients buy moving forward. So, let's get

on the list for questions, but I think everyone will agree, depending on your storage situation,

well, even it doesn't matter. You definitely want to have some rodent and bug protection.

You definitely want to have something like you can get those dehumidifier bags or dehumidifier

bags you can throw in the car, just things like that. So, if you're storing a car for a couple

months, you definitely want to, you know, assume that there's going to be a rat family that's going

to want to move in. Or at the very least, there might be some white mold that tries to form inside

the car, especially if you have temperature fluctuations. So yeah, there you go. All right,

anything else? I think we're good. All right, let's go into listener questions. Now, a lot of these

are hybrid of listener questions. In other words, we've had a lot of listener questions. And then

I've combined them to make them, I think, a little bit more palatable by the masses. And so I'm just

going to jump right in. You guys ready? Yep, sure. All right, let's go. Listener questions.

How do you drive an air cooled 911 into a 911 into a corner without turning it into a lawn

ornament? Wait transfer voodoo break timing? Give us the survival guide. And Paul, I want you to

go last. You guys have because I know you know the answer to this one. Do you guys have any

explanations for that? Oh, I mean, again, what are we talking about here? What's the what's

the circumstance? Are we just driving up in the mountains? Are we just, you know, we're just

talking about the fact that that air cooled car has got a heavy back end and that you,

you know, you definitely don't want to be lifting off in corners. You got to stay on the throttle

as you're, you know, breaking ahead of time. Typical, you know, typical driving stuff,

breaking. You have to be ahead of the corner. Get your breaking cognizant of weight transfer.

That's that big break. Get your breaking done before you hit the corner. Paul, now I know you've

competitively driven your old short wheelbase and long wheelbase 911s and those things are,

you know, notorious if you break too late that the acid is going to come around depending on the apex

that, you know, turn of the radius of the turn. Yeah. And I think part of the charm of driving

either a short wheelbase or an early 911, the earlier you go, the better. 356s are tough because

I don't know if you can carry enough speed. I know the 356 guys will hate me. And just for my

tires, I bet you can. And my friend, Mike, the 912 guys, they may struggle to carry enough

speed. No, just kidding. Mike can actually move really good in his 912. But the thing is,

and Tim, you've probably experienced this. When you get it right in a 911, an early 911,

let's say you're doing a mountain road and you got to turn and you get, you stay outside,

you get all your breaking done, you're aiming for the apex, early 911s take this unique set.

And it's hard to describe. You feel the back end just sort of take the step and go,

huh. And right when it does that, the car is saying, get on the gas. And where I see people

who have a problem is right at that point, if you lift, you're going to spin. And the weird

thing is, I forget this, it becomes sort of innate part of driving. I'm so used to driving

these cars. But then I'll do a rally in like a 944. You can't see that one. I'll do a rally

in 944, which is really a front engine, rear wheel drive, 50-50 weight balance, more of a

conventional car. And I will come into a turn too hot, we're in a 911, I may have an issue,

and I forget. And then it just sort of corrects itself. And it doesn't have ABS, doesn't have,

I mean, doesn't have traction control. But ultimately, the annoying reason why there are

so many of these old 911s on rallies is because they're the most interesting car to drive,

in my opinion. Well, you get the turn right, you can actually have the back end kind of slide

through and helps you to take the turn tighter. That's the thing. It's basically like go-kart racing.

That's essentially the physics works the same way. So I think we've nailed that one.

All right, next question. What are the special but underappreciated Porsche cars

that you predict will be a collector cars in the future that people aren't talking enough about now?

Casey, you first. I was Paul just put it up.

987 second, Jim Boxer, Spider. That's the first car that came to my mind. And

it's one of the best looking ones that they ever built. And it's special. Unfortunately,

the engine isn't super special. But the rest of the car is really nice. But that's definitely

the car that I picked. Isn't that funny? You are about the most 911 of all 911 people I know,

and you chose a Boxer. That's awesome. Hey, Dave, what about you? Any special underappreciated

Porsches that you predict will be collector cars in the future? Underappreciated now?

I think they're all collector cars, obviously. But the 996, of course, is going to continue to

bubble up. And pricing on that is going to be, I think people, the older that gets, the more

people are going to care less about the headlights and those sorts of things. Generally speaking,

and I think with air-cooled stuff, I think the mid-year cars are already starting to kind of

come into their own just because people can't afford the rest. So any of the mid-year cars,

the early 70s through mid-year, 75, 76, I don't know. Well, I mean, Paul, there's...

I just think it would have happened. Like we watched the Euroquera, which was the halo of

the mid-year cars. And they kind of just did their thing. And sadly, my opinion is anything

that's 40 years old or older, if it didn't do its thing, especially in pandemic, it's kind of done.

And the early cars, the mid-year cars kind of were part of the longhood boom in 2013 to 2016.

And then they just, I would say when that market fell apart, they just sort of stayed... And honestly,

I think the mid-year market has stayed mostly because it was a great donor car to go build a

hot rod or a back date. Yeah, definitely true. But I mean, I see a lot of them here all of a

sudden that are showing up in my shop. And so people are buying them. I don't think the price

has fallen. I do think that like all of these cars as time goes on, the more rare they get,

the older they get, the longer it goes, that even the mid-year cars are going to continue to

appreciate an increase in value. Mr. Parkin, do you have an opinion on this question?

I think, you know, I can see both Paul's opinion and Dave's opinion. I think it's great that Dave

is starting to see more of these cars there because as Paul stated, people are seeing them

perhaps as a value. And then they can, of course, make them into what they want them to be rather

than staying true to what the car originally was. My answer is GT4 RS. I think people have,

they're hyped up about them. They got maligned because people said they're too hard for public

roads, blah, blah, blah. And I think the GT4, the 718 GT4 RS and the 718 Spider are going to be real

halo cars going forward because if they're so unique, that's in my opinion. So there we go.

All right, let's go on to the next question. Now, this actually, this question came out on

Instagram and I don't think I edited this one at all. But as a Ferrari fan, I know you guys

didn't highlight this one. Someone before she talked about Ferraris. Oh, Paul with the slide

ready. As a Ferrari fan, I feel like fans of the brand are bifurcated into the 12 cylinder people

and everyone else. I'd love to hear you all debate this and what happened in the brand's evolution

where the transformation occurred. All right, Paul, you got the looks like that. Yep.

It's a 355 GTS picture of the interior. I think with Ferrari, yes, maybe if you're talking about

in the early 2000s, there's the 12 cylinder crowd in the knot. I think now we're at the point where

certainly, are you a manual or not, which basically what after the 430 kind of ends,

I mean, yes, there's a few, but technically, or ultimately 430, are you a 430 and older person,

or the other part is, are you a normally aspirated versus turbocharged hybrid, whatever.

But it's sort of why for me, it's hard for me to get any interest in Ferrari after 430,

in my opinion, maybe 488. I would say I probably bumped up to 488.

So what you're describing, and I have a feeling you don't know, are cars that were

pinaforena designed versus in-house, and cars that were designed under, when Monticello,

I think I'm saying is wrong, or I'm probably saying it wrong, was the in-charge. In other

words, before public, Ferrari went public. That's what you're describing. Those are the

cars. And I think the design is important because it feels like the modern design

is they put in all these requirements into chat GPT and it says, here's what you have to design

to meet all these different cafe standards, whatever, and maybe a general idea of what the

market wants. And I think that's part of the reason why it's really hard to differentiate

a Ferrari from a C8 Corvette from a McLaren for someone who's not deep in the brand. And I see

it and you have to look at it like, is that a Ferrari? Is that a C8 Corvette? Whereas,

I mean, I would say the only thing that's differentiating different to me is the

Roma looks a little different, in my opinion. It is funny that I cannot tell you how many

C8s, especially red ones coming in the opposite direction, I've seen that I thought was a Ferrari.

It's crazy. It is crazy, especially in North Carolina. So I think in, you have any opinions

on this, Dave, what we're talking about here? I have no dog in this particular hunt whatsoever.

Well, I'll tell you from a Ferrari enthusiast perspective where the drop off or the change

really happened is where a Ferrari, when Ferrari went public, and then they started to have it to

obviously placate and service their shareholders. And then at that point, too, is when Ferrari started

to really roll into their, I'd say, I don't know if it's good or it's bad, it's good for Ferrari,

but their new structure where essentially they're always trying to get you to, you know,

I got talked about earlier, I don't need to talk about it anymore. But the essence of it is,

you started out with your 296 GTB. Oh, now I want a GTS. So that's not as good as the 296

Seto Fiorano. Oh, now I want a 296 GTS Seto Fiorano. Oh, hold on, there's a new Speciale.

I want that one. These are all 296s. I had to write all this down, by the way. And then there's

the Speciale Aperta, which you have to be, you know, have to somehow be chosen for that one. Oh,

you think you've arrived, son. Now we got the 296 Speciale XX. Exactly. Oh, hold on, you think

you've won the game? Nope. You got to go 296 Speciale XX Aperta. Oh, finally, you've arrived.

Now we're going to offer you to build a 296 F40 or something like, you know, a 296 based car.

Point of it is, is again, I said this is the top of the show. I think this is the same pattern

that Porsche is going to follow with their special with their cars too, to frankly,

make more money and keep people on that gravy or keep, you know, Porsche on the gravy train.

And I wouldn't be surprised if all if that is indeed what happened. All right, so let's go to

this next question. What's the trick in keeping a 3.2 Carrera's oil temps in check?

I suppose it's any flat, you know, any oil cooled Porsche. When you're hammering it on a hot day,

add an auxiliary cooler or just back off and pray. Who's got experience on that?

Oh, my God. I mean, this, this is my oil fricking temperature gauge on almost every rally. And

for those who know me and follow me, I have, you know, my car is an 86 Carrera back date,

mechanically stock, bone stock. Yes, it's got 375,000 miles, which might be part of the problem.

But I have got, I have literally changed every single component outside the motor that touches

oil. Every oil line, every oil cooler, I've upgraded to bigger oil coolers, bigger oil lines.

I have air conditioning, but obviously I'm not running at this point. Now granted,

company to not be named, redid the gauges to look like early S gauges, and they screwed it up,

and we figured out there's a, and by the way, for those who have a 3.2 Carrera, did you,

which don't have number, you know, they don't have the numbers like, you know, this does.

Have you looked, if you look on the inside of the gauge, like you kind of got to look at it

at an angle, do you know that there's an actual number readings in there? Have you ever seen that,

Casey? No, I've not. It's really cool. And so it's, I don't know why Porsche did that, but if you

look at it, but bottom line is to answer your question, Tim, I'll be going up a hill. I'm freaking

out. I feel like, you know, Marty Feldman with one eye looking at the gauge and one eye looking

forward. And I'm just so used to looking at that freaking gauge. I see it, and you just start to

back up. Now here's the trick. You can't go too slow. You want air moving through it, but you

want, you know how when you drive your car, you could feel when it's loading and you want the

load off the car? Obviously, if it's really a problem, you just pull over and stop and you

turn the car off. When you mean loading, you're talking about. You could feel the engine pulling

hard. Like you're at 4500 RPM. Now, and you could just feel the strain on the motor. It's pulling,

like, you know, when you're, you're, I'll be going up a hill and it's an old car and I'm at 5000 RPM

and even though I can go to 6000 RPM, like the car won't go. It's just, there's between the hill,

between air, whatever, tired motor won't go. And so then the goal is to back off enough where you

can get it down to like under 4000 RPM and let the car breathe. If it doesn't, if it, I mean,

my mechanic said basically when you get to that 10 o'clock line, it's amazing. If you're right below

it, it's like 240 degrees. If you're right above it, it's 260. That's the difference. And we're

talking about two millimeters. The difference between surviving the rally and killing your motor.

So in my opinion, you just, you have to back off. If it's ultimately bad, you pull over,

open the deck, turn the engine off and let the, and let it cool, really cool before you start it.

Don't put water on the motor or something stupid like that. No, no, don't do that.

Well, I mean, my, my 964 runs cool. I mean, I guess maybe they've, they've evolved it so much more

from the 3.2 to 3.6 liter. But I mean, when the 964 runs, it runs cool. I mean, there's,

there's a, there's a couple of different options. And one of the things we got to, and I remember

when we were doing with air conditioning, they, I kept telling them, leave the left front fender

alone. Like there is space in there because a couple of companies make a dual oil cooler system

where you run two big oil coolers in each fender of a Quera. Ultimately, the ones on

early cars that work the best, if you build kind of an RS thing where you have a oil cooler in the

front and it properly can get through the oil cooler and out, that, that works the best. But

and the other thing it's that I see people screwing up, you got to use the right oil,

high zinc oil, high temp oil. I bring lots of it on these rallies. And I'm really cautious about

not letting it go too low and not overfilling it because you have to account for the expansion

with heat. So Dave, let's talk about that. You're on a rally, you do a lot of rallies like, like

Paul does. And, you know, these old cars will occasionally want to take a little nap. So

what do you do? You, one of your customers, I never look at the gauges. I just hammer it.

There you go. He has a shop. He can rebuild the motor. He doesn't care. But even, even here's

the thing I always tell people, you spend, besides the money to go to a rally, and this

always baffles me. And the same thing with the track day, you spend all this energy and money

to prepare for it. And while you're there, your time is so valuable, though I always tell people

when they're debating to get their car ready, I go, if you're broken down the side of the road

and you're going to miss one of a three day rally, a third of the rally waiting for a tow truck,

how much would you pay to not be there? And my mechanic knows if it even slightly looked like,

and here's the other thing, if you have an air cool Porsche and you're going to do a rally,

the numbers, the three things I see fail that we check Dave Hill Country Rally. Remember I said,

hey, everyone in the audience with 400 people, how many of you either fuel pump starter or

alternator in this rally? And the shocking number of people we're talking a fourth of the audience

had a problem with that on the rally. And I think it's because these cars are underused,

they don't use those components like, well, I replaced it five years ago. So those three things.

But all the Bosch stuff, I mean, I have problems with any Bosch product. I mean, we've moved away

from as many Bosch fuel pumps, alternators, starters, it's all remand stuff right now,

and it all is garbage. So we've been looking, we keep looking for alternatives,

either the Wasp on the alternators or Vallejo. Let me ask you a question though, Dave. So given

what Paul just said, if those are the three common failure points, is there a way to check the health

of those things and actually get a good health read? Unfortunately, no, unless it's intermittent

to start, because a fuel pump, if you're driving and that fuel pump starts making noise and an

air cooled 911, you can hear it. I mean, even a nine, you know, nine, six, four, you can hear it.

If it's starting to get tired, like I've done a long drive, you know, 600 mile drive driving on

Florida, and by the end of that drive, that fuel pump starts to scream. That's like the sign right

there that it's time to maybe look at changing out that fuel pump for sure. How much is a fuel pump?

How much is a fuel pump? Not a lot. I mean, less than $200 typically. Yeah. I mean, so it might

make sense if you think it's sketch, just go ahead and replace those parts from the one rally.

My rule of thumb, especially with all the air cooleds, anything that's

964 and older 993 doesn't matter. Every five years or 15,000 miles do a major service, which is a

valve adjustment and changing fluids, etc. In that every five years or 15,000 miles, I do a new fuel

pump. Boom. Problem solved. Those aren't remanufactured. The starter, those are, those fail so much.

It's there's such crap. I just had to have mine. I got, I had to get pushed on my last rally because

my starter just went into lunch. It's great. I come out from lunch. Won't start just dead.

You guys are, and that was a new starter. You guys are taking the romance out of driving old cars.

We better move on. So next question, what's the right way to bring up a, any sort of engine,

but this is fascinating because this person did ask the difference between a Ferrari and a Porsche

and this again, a hotly debated topic between those two cars and with regards to warm up.

So what is a good strategy for warming up? Do you warm up at all? Do you have to warm up?

I'm adding to the question. Do you have to warm up old cars, new cars? Dave, you go first. You're

the resident shop owner. Well, I'm the shop owner with the, you know, I think everybody would suggest

that you should not just jump in, turn the key and hammer and go, right? You'd want to let that car,

you know, breathe a little bit, come up the temperature, no matter what it is, new, modern, old.

The old car certainly, they'll just run better as well in addition to, you know,

making sure that you're not putting too much wear and tear on the motor while this oil is still kind

of circulating around because especially with the air cooled motors, you don't have, you've only

got the oil that's in the motor to start kind of, so that thermostat opens and starts circulating

the oil around. So that can be a few minutes though, right? But you do want to let that car

warm up a little bit on an old air cooled car. And I can't, you know, I'm sure the same thing

applies to Ferraris. The guy with the collection can probably give us more sense of this because I

think there's probably guys that don't want to let those cars just warm up in idle, right? You

want to actually drive the car and get the revved up and all that. Casey, you drive all your cars

once a month, right? The cars you take after, at least try to move them? A small amount of distance,

yes. Some of them are brought to idle, but then of course I step it up to 2,000, then 2,500 RPMs

and do those sorts of things. But when it comes to air cooled porches, I always get some amount

of heat in them before taking off, especially with RS cars, because I just think that's a

better way to get the oil moving around in it. It also gives me the opportunity to check the

oil before I head off on a drive to make sure that it's happy enough before heading out.

So in Ferraris, I don't know if you guys know, Paul, do you have your Ferrari shift?

Yeah, I mean, the thing I've learned about Ferraris for the most part is

second gear is a no-no until it warms up. On the older cars.

On the older Ferraris. And it's not even like, oops, I went in a second. It won't

let you go into second unless you force it. And I always tell people, especially with the Ferraris,

you're going slow, just you start off in first and you build, you know, 3,500 RPM,

and then you're in third. And you do that. And then you'll go to second and you've experienced

this, Tim. And magically, it goes, now you may use second. It's sort of this sort of very like

obvious, the cars warmed up. And usually when you could do that with a Ferrari,

that that's about the same time the engine's warmed up, in my opinion, or what I found.

Jay Leno said something, it sounds right. He said he thought the oil passages and the old

Ferraris, again, these are the pre IPO Ferraris actually were narrower than say, for example,

German cars. I don't know if that is true, but it does kind of make sense. And the Ferraris,

you do have to warm them up. But so this is kind of an interesting question I just thought of.

The newer cars, where they'll do that, you got case you're gonna have to bail me out here,

where they pre warm the catalytic converter. I mean, isn't that essentially,

how's that good for the engine? Because you're essentially it's thermal, it's thermal management

on a new Porsche. It's very complicated where they basically keep the coolant within the engine

itself. And then as it warms up, it moves to different places. But the reason that they do

that is the faster an engine and catalytic converters get up to temperature, the less emissions that

the car outputs. So that's the primary concern with every new car. And I mean, that's how cars are

made legal, you know, across the world, they need to make sure the engine gets up to temperature

as quickly as possible. Porsche made a big deal out of it, starting with

Gali, what was it? What was the was a 991 where all the servos were failing in the coolant

areas, but in the back of the engine. So that was really when it started, they started doing that.

And then they pretty much had it fixed up through one of the valve blocks of failing 991.2s. But

yeah, that 991 is really when Porsche started making that investment in thermal management

must have been required by governments. Interesting. I mean, I was gonna ask, go ahead,

you ask your question. I just said, I just said modern modern Porsche is when you start them,

we've all experienced where it sounds, even if you didn't get the sport exhaust, you know how

you start it and it sounds like it has sport exhaust, and it sounds really rad. And then it

and basically those cars, I wait for it to, you know, the tone changes. And when the tone changes,

I drive it and you drive it at 50% everything gentle until you get oil temp and water and

that's the hard part about modern cars, you have to change the gauge so you can see the oil temp

and because that's more important than the water temp. Definitely. Well, you know, you don't have

any of these problems on electric cars, right? I mean, you know, on what? Oh, what's your what's

your feedback on on 915 transmission in terms of how many miles before you find it starts to act a

little bit better. That's unusual. I have had nine, you know, my 86 when I bought it, I would say

four of the synchros were already bad. And I was able to limp that 90,000 miles. But it was a pain

if anyone else wanted to drive it, I had all these requirements. I rebuilt the transmission.

And it's got 80,000 miles on the rebuilt transmission now. And the way my first test,

whenever I get a 915 transmission car in, I was having my dad do this, is once the car is at

operating temperature, as you're coming to a stoplight, and you're like under 10 miles an hour,

closer to five miles an hour, put the clutch in, don't jam it, but without any

blipping the throttle, just just move it at a medium to easy pace in the first gear. If you

can move it in there, grind, get the synchros grind, you're like, okay, this is someone who didn't

know. But but to answer your question, I think the 915 transmission could go indefinitely, so long

as you drive it properly. And I always tell people, you can feel it, the transmission will tell you

when it doesn't want to go in a gear. And guess what, you got four other gears, go pick another one.

I do find them to be a little bit, once they get warm, they're better for sure. Like, and that's

with most things with cars, but you got to let those warm up a little bit before you're going to

really start hammering on it. And going back to true analog, the better you can get at rev

matching, heel towing, whichever one thinks is a race car thing, I used to practice on the street on

right hand turns, go into second gear, blip the throttle, feel it, you could feel it ease in the

better you can get at that, not only is it going to save your parts, but when we're going back to,

you know, zipping around a turn, guess what, you're going to manage weight transfer way better, way

better. Have you guys ever driven a car where you could downshift without using the clutch,

a true manual transmission car? Oh, I mean, yeah, because the clutch was shot, I had no choice.

There's there's one car. I had I had one car. I know this sounds crazy, but it's true. I had a

and Paul, I'm, you're gonna love this. I had a banana yellow C five zero six.

You say Corvette, I knew you're gonna say, but listen, built like Tupperware, I get it interior

exterior drivetrain killer had phenomenal brakes. It was a lot of fun. No, that's a C four. So this

is ugly. This was a C five, but I could downshift that car without using the clutch.

I don't understand how or why it worked that way, but what that was really interesting.

RPMs had to be in a very specific window and there's only downshifting, no clutch.

Well, I mean, technically, you could do that in all the cars. You if you get to the point where

you can, and I felt it in a Porsche by accident, where I did a quick shift and it just came like

butter out and went into another gear. And it's just when, you know, the flywheel and everything

is matching up perfectly, which I mean, Casey, aren't their Porsche race cars before they went

to sequential shifters that could actually do that? I mean, wasn't that how they worked on some

of like before the sequential shifter? Isn't the real answer because you're an incredible driver,

Tim? I mean, isn't that really the obvious answer? Well, that's part of your bio. We all,

we've all read your bio. We know that. You mean, you know, that's not true.

All right, we'll get to these other listener questions on another show for the sake of brevity,

which we've already blown through. But let's move on. Are you guys ready to move on?

Okay, let's go to this or that. This is probably my favorite segment of our show. By the way,

I don't know about you guys. You know what, Casey, I'm not going to let you go last because

you always have the most irreverent. Oh, shit. Look, Paul's pulled up. If you're not watching

on YouTube, you're kind of, you're kind of missing out on the light show. Okay. These guys are

competing for nerdiest car. All right, let's go. Let's bring it. That's cool. That is called a

trifecta of shit boxes. Sorry. It gets worse. You ready? Oh, there you go. I'll go first. I'll

go first. Thank you, sir. I've got a client that likes mini cars. These are two mini cars that he

does not own. He owns, I think, like seven or eight mini coupers. He's got an Isetta. He's just got

some really interesting stuff, but he's always been looking for a really nice Fiat 500 and a

really nice Messerschmitt. The Messerschmitts that I always like are the ones with the bubble tops,

the one that's behind me is a convertible. This is a 63. Honestly, it sold for pretty cheap. This

is a pretty cool car. It is a 63KR200 convertible. It's showing 11,000 miles. Who knows if that's

correct or not, but it's a Messerschmitt. It has to be correct. Who the hell is going to go 11?

I mean, 11,000 miles in those who are listening, if you haven't seen a Messerschmitt, just Google

Messerschmitt, it is basically, is it a three-wheeler or is it a four-wheeler? No, it's a four,

isn't it? Well, I think it's got two in the back. It's got two wheels in the back that are maybe

like six inches apart and then two wheels in the front that are maybe three feet apart and then you

sit like an F, you know, F-14 fighter plane. What do they call it? Like a Zinger C21. At my favorite

term, you know, like a McLaren. But to nuts. So anyway, that's car number one and then car number.

Let's hover here because not everyone's going to know what these things are. Not everyone's seen

one of these. The history of these, Casey, these are, I don't want to tell your story. So can you

give people background on why the automotive lords decided to birth something that looks, I don't

even know how you describe that thing? Like when did that, when was that? What part of the world

and what market was something like that a good freaking idea? Like Germany, I'm assuming with

the name like Messerschmitt. I mean, that's, I mean, it's designed as a small city car. I mean,

it's an evolution of other small cars in the market to compete with more small cars in the

market. So the other car that I'm referring to is this car. How much did his self work? Both cars

went for mid to upper 20s. And honestly, for Messerschmitt, that's pretty cheap. If it was a

bubble top car, it would have been more money. But I can't imagine how hot one of those is when

driving it, because it's literally just like being in a greenhouse. The other car that I've

chosen is a, it's a 600cc powered 1967 Fiat 500 F. I love Fiat 500s. I think they're cool. I even

think the new Fiat 500s are pretty cool, especially the Abarth cars. This is an interesting car.

This actually was a pretty high watermark for a price for one of these. It's sold for mid 20s.

And honestly, the photography work and the presentation was super honest, but not really

professional in the terms of what I look for. But it got a really great figure. It was just

restored. Actually, I take that back. The odometer was reset. So it's only showing 87 miles, but

pretty cool car. Also sold for the mid 20s. So I figured with all of us in many cars,

you know, Paul, which one would you go with? Well, here's a problem is I don't think I would

physically fit in either one. So I'm going to pick the car that my wife would probably want to drive.

The Messerschmitt is a clown car, but my wife, honest to God, her all time favorite car,

which I've almost bought is a Subaru 360. If you haven't seen that, and I would say the Fiat 500

looks pretty damn close to it. It's probably an SUV compared to a Subaru 360. So she would pick the

500. So as long as it came with those lovely baskets on the engine cover, rear engine too. Hey,

rear engine. So I was a little alone. What was that little super event that the tiny little

microscopic van? It was the 360 van. I think that's why I thought 360 van. Those things are a chance

to watch those commercials. They were trying to placate to the American market. So they were

calling it a Subaru because they wanted it to sound like Texan or something like the pizza place.

It was just yeah, exactly. Casey, if you've seen those little Subaru vans before this tiny

not sounds really cool. Oh my gosh, Dave, have you seen one before in real life? I don't know if I

have or not. I mean, there's there's they're so wild. They're kind of like a Fiat multiply in a

Japanese flavor. That's cool. Multiple is a really cool. I should have. That's next week,

I'm going to pick a multiple. There we go. So Casey, what would your choice be of your two

I do the Fiat. I think it's really cool. And it's almost like an actual car. I've got some seat

time in an Isetta, which is really awkward. This thing I think would be a lot. This this is like

my Vespa. It's kind of like when you drive it, it's a real sense of occasion. Feels like you're

you know, on the Amalfi Coast or something like that. So I definitely picked the Fiat.

I'm with you. What do you think, Dave? Without the picnic basket, I am completely out of that.

I got to have the picnic basket. I've found that even Porsches, if you throw a roof rack and an

old suitcase up on top, it seems to bring more money, right, Paul? Absolutely roof rack. Absolutely.

My motto. No, I'm going to go to Fiat. The Messerschmitt, I've seen them. I've sat in them.

I've sat in the bubble top ones. It is just it's agonizing. I just would never that's a that's

just something you will look at in the garage. I go with the Fiat. For sure. The Fiat. Cool. All

right. So go ahead, Paul. Let's see what it's on the opposite end. I've picked the largest possible

car. This is a one family of 1975 Ford LTD wagon in dark green, dark yellow green metallic, which

the best way to describe it is, you know, 70s avocado. It is a I mean, look at the length of

this car. If you don't get a chance, I think it's like I think it's 18 or 19 feet long.

Like you said, it's it's massive. This car only has 37,000. I mean, look at that. I mean,

that is her swallowing capacity. That's an amazing shot right there. You can build a house

out of the back of that car with, you know, the plywood that comes in the back. But that's

a that was a station wagon. Where's the seats? Well, they were folded down and then look at

this interior that the seats are folded down. Look at this interior. You look at this interior.

If you guys if you grew up in the 70s, I could smell the vinyl and I could feel the the summer

pull on my thighs as you tried to slide across the bench seat and just and then you could hear

the yelling for like, you know, shotgun. I mean, if you got the rear middle hump seat, remember

the hump seat, you could see the transmission where your knees were up in your, you know,

chin because you got screwed in the middle. If you were lucky, you've got the rear gunner position

where the seats are facing backwards, which I didn't I couldn't find a picture. But anyway,

this lovely gym, a three speed automatic 400 cubic inch engine, massive engine,

it's sold recently. I bring a trailer for $14,500 without fees. So there's that one beautiful

choice or I did this for Tim. This is a 12,000 mile 1988 Chevy Corvette 35th anniversary edition,

which is basically their kind of Euro look where they whited out monochrome to everything.

White wheels. I mean, I just can see Barbie in this car. It just looks like a Barbie car.

Still a big vehicle. But oh, hold on, white. Who does white leather better than Chevrolet? I mean,

it is gross and probably one of the worst two spokes to spoke spirit steering wheel should

be banned in general. Okay, we got it. We got it. You love the car. So so this lovely 35th anniversary

edition with only 12,000 miles. Oh, came with a four speed automatic sold for 15,250. So you got

a choice of the 75 wagon and with a three speed automatic 400 cubic inch engine, or you got the

Corvette with a four speed automatic 12,000 miles. All right, Dave, you go first. What would you

choose? Well, if if the station wagon actually had the vinyl wood siding, I would have picked the

station wagon. I got every one of my old station wagons, you got to have it's got to be a beaver,

as we used to call them when we were playing games on the road. Dave, do I want to add something that

may change your mind? Hold on, I'm going to add something. This particular wagon, this exact

model, not this exact car, was a big part of the Dan Aykroyd movie, Jim Belushi movie.

Blues Brothers. Blues Brothers, thank you. It was a part of the particular car.

Not this particular car, but exact color make and model. Okay, I mean, the color is fantastic.

I would just want to I need the wood siding. So I would have to go to the Corvette,

unfortunately. I mean, I'll pick the Corvette. I think for 15 grand, either one of them would

be a hell of a lot of fun to have and tool around. But I think the Corvette would probably get out

of the garage a little bit more than the the Wally wagon there. Casey, what would you choose?

So even though I'm listing this beautiful zero one Corvette right now on Haggerty Marketplace,

that just started bidding yesterday, I will side with Paul, because I think I know where he's going

to go. I think the wagon is pretty rad. I think I'd have to go that way. I mean, it's just I would

never have a place to put it. But if you showed up anywhere in that, you could be in the world's

crazy, you could be in a McLaren F1, and you pull up in that wagon and nobody is looking at that

McLaren F1, they're staring at that station wagon. I don't know what the hell cars and coffee you're

going to that that's true, but that's a sad situation. Casey's right. Casey's right. He's

totally right. I'm going to go I'm going to go with the Corvette for one very practical reason.

It's because there's fewer windows to tint so no one would see I was in it.

Oh, that would fit so good. That the Corvette is perfect for you. It is,

it just says I live on an island. Especially in the white. White is perfect for important.

Oh, yeah, you get your low cut shirt being, oh, Tim, you got it. By the way, I want to point this

out when you when you just got up to hobble off, you weren't using your walk or you actually walked

about aid because did I see that correctly, sir? I can walk now. It looks a little bit

like the Monster Mash. But more importantly, on Monday, the doctor said the most important news

I've heard. Yes, you can start driving a manual transmission. That's awesome. Well, anyway,

congratulations. That's great. I can't I can't physically do it. But we're practicing literally

today at my shop. We're pulling cars out and I'm going to start practicing relearning to drive a

manual. Very good. Dave customer car, I hope. Let's see. Hey, Dave, do you up? If you don't mind,

Dave, can you go last? No, actually, Dave, no problem. Yeah. Can you help me? Can you help me

out with pictures? Oh, yeah. I got a picture for you. Yeah. You guys are such good friends. I

really appreciate you bailing me out on this because trust me, I've got a lot to manage pulling

this off. All right. So here we go. Very simple. Thank you guys for helping. And actually Casey,

I'm going to be very interested in your input on the blue car that Dave's got up. That was one of

those Porsche build off cars. I have a feeling Casey's about to give us some schooling on that.

So those two cars were basically the same money. You have essentially again, I'm going to guess

Casey knows more about the blue car than I do a 993 that some that a dealership and the Porsche

build off. I hopefully I'm using that those words, right? Made it look like an RS. They did

from what I read all the suspension stuff, right? It had a factory motor in it. And the interior was

done up, but it didn't have sports seats in it. And that car did not sell for 200 grand.

Okay. And then you have this other one, which was the turbo look at Carrera to, you know, turbo

look, it was the Amazon green. Is that what that green is called?

No, it was Wimbledon. Wimbledon green green. Yeah. But if you guys can skip through, oh,

there you go. Thank you, Paul. Look at that interior. I mean, that right there. Nephrite,

was it Nephrite or was that a different color? That was interior sample Wimbledon green.

Oh, okay. So would you choose, would you choose the green cabriolet? And I chose that knowing

that none of you guys like cabriolets, sub Dave, I think, if I remember correctly, would any of you

guys choose, which would you choose and why? Casey, you go first, because I have a feeling

you're going to give us a schooled answer. So at Wrensport Reunion 7, our 944 turbo competed

against that blue car. And the car that won, which was a car that Portia Beverly Hills did,

it was a Carrera 4 that was done kind of to RS spec. And I was never formally given the results,

but to my knowledge, our car placed in front of that blue car. The people at, I believe,

Portia South Orlando built it. The car had a very interesting story. But to me, if it were my car,

and I was working on it, I would have found a set of, the wheels were wrong, unfortunately,

and the seats were definitely wrong. If you correct those two things, that car would have been worth

I mean, just put a set of pole positions in the car and then get a set of magnesium E28s or

E88 wheels from BBS and stick it on there. And that car would have been worth a lot more.

Do we all agree that the wheels and tires pretty much ruined that car? Do we all agree?

I mean, I sent an article on our newsletter that taught, or sorry, it was my own newsletter

with the Magnus Outlaw wheels and literally talked about how wheels change the car. But

Casey and I think Tim are missing the big point with this so South Orlando poser car.

The motor stock, you got this cool looking GT2 body that looks like it should have 400 horsepower

and it's got 260 horsepower. I'm sorry. I mean, besides the seats being wrong, the wheels being

wrong, easy to fix. It just to me was screen poser that it was all show no go.

They say in Texas, tall hat, no cattle. Was that was that tall hat, tall hat, no cattle. So

do you get you are you guys familiar with that? That say, I mean, it makes sense.

Yeah, well, people walking around with new Stetson's and really tall hats and whatnot. And they all

look, you know, like they look like cowboys, the guys that actually having lived in Ranchland,

almost in Ranchland in Georgetown for a while, 10 years. They the real cowboys or the real ranch

holders, you know, they didn't they were caps like Paul's wearing. They didn't do anything to draw

attention to themselves. They draw, you know, clapped out old pickup trucks. Those are the

guys with thousands of bakers versus the guys walking around the fancy stuff that had no cows

back at home. So tall hat, no cattle. Yep. That's what that car is. The the foe GT2 is is interesting.

But I really love that Wimbledon green car. I tried to talk to people that I knew into buying

it. It looks it didn't it didn't bid. It didn't sell at auction, to my knowledge, but it looked

like David Mollman ended up with it. Because I saw it ended up on his Instagram page. So

it's a really awesome car. And what a special thing it reminds me is something that Justin

would have found. Yeah, that kind of car. Casey, just a quick question about because it is a wide

body, but it was a Euro car. So was this the Euro version of what we got was called the American

Roadster? American Roadster. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think if you had to choose between the two?

No, no question. The the interior on the 993 is just got awful. That that alone disqualifies it

for me. The rest of the I mean, that just is so plain Jane, so not fitting with the rest of the car

and so easy to have done something more with to make that car sell. Well, what's the what's

the future? What's the future of this blue car? Like if we were to as a as a team buy that car

for the right money, if there is no right money in it, it just take it to take too much.

Honestly, they should have taken it. It's a bid to 200 grand. I mean, I think that's

all the money in the car had. I think the car fax was a bit messed up on it too. If I recall,

it would have like a salvage title or maybe not that had an airbag deployed. Yeah, that was it.

Yeah. So I mean, they and trust me, I know that they took that car down to nothing and put it back

together. So I'm sure that they did a great job of it. But 200 grand for that car seems like a ton

of money. Considering considering go get an RS 993 real 993 RS club sport, which is ironically

less than the touring for probably, I don't know, high, high threes low fours, which then you get

an actual real car with a real motor. Yeah, I'm sorry. No, I agree. That was my choice too. I think

this cat the cabriolet though is is a car that's going to draw the color combination alone. It's

a better investment piece as well. I mean, it's a gorgeous car. It's fun. I really I'm really

surprised. Great. I really surprised you guys all went with the cabriolet, especially you Paul.

All right, good. I mean, it did the motor. The motor and the shitty interior did it for me.

That was it. You know, it's such a I hate poser cars. I hate I rather I am asleep. I'd rather

have a sleeper than a poser car or at least what it is. If they would have put a turbo motor in

it, a nine six four turbo motor and our 93 twin turbo motor, I might have been on board. Casey,

what in that Porsche restoration challenge, are they allowed to hot rod the motors?

Yeah, we were in the individualization category. So you could pretty much do whatever you wanted.

So but to hot do put a hot rod and motor in that car, Dave bought about realistically a really

nice motor 100 grand. Yep. No, no, you don't have to go that far. You don't have to go to 100. You

know, I mean, 50 to 75 would build that motor. I mean, let's let's call it 75. Okay. So then we

have seats and then we have wheels, you're easily 100 grand, and then you have 300,000 in that car.

And what's the market value on that blue car? You got the motor, right? You got the interior,

right? You got the wheels and tires, right? What's it worth? We sold one just like that. It was a

it was a GT two body. It had a 993 hot rod, had all the cool, cool bells and whistles.

And it was a hard sell. We sold it last year for 225. It was it was Mexico blue. It looked like

that. It had the right wheels. It looked like a real club sport GT two and it was a hard sell at 220.

Wow. And the cars are hard sells cars that are designed to look like some other car are just hard

sells. You know, that's my experience. And my value rule of thumb with stuff like this that

doesn't have a huge market demand. I mean, and like, it's not like a 73 hours clone where lots

of people do that kind of thing where it's just sort of not a lot of people are doing that. It's

worth 50 to 75% max of that cost to build it. So if it costs 300,000 to build it,

maybe it's worth 200,000. They should have taken the money and run.

So let me let me let me flip the script. If you got if if Porsche restoration challenge,

the whole thing, they decided to basically perfectly restored the 993, but they do the right

suspension on it. They do the right engine on it. They do a nice suspension on it. Is that car going

to be more desirable than one that's tall hat, no cattle? In other words, it looks factory,

but it's got the hot rod bits underneath. Yes. I think that would have more value in the long

run. It'll it'll never hold the value of the Wimbledon green 964 cabriolet because stock

factory Porsche stuff always does better in the long run that's desirable.

All right, good. I'm glad I brought up something was interested you guys. All right, so Dave,

you are up next, sir. I'm throwing a third car in the mix here only briefly. Of course you are

rule breakers. These are not well, no, I'm going on the Casey break the rules. I'm going to have

three cars or Paul break the rules. I'm going to have three cars, but I'm not really. This is just

was a head fake. I bid on this car. Tim sent me this van last week on the Insta feed or whatever

on the WhatsApp feed and said, we got to have this as like the the the the Sunderworx chop truck,

right? But this thing is pretty wild. They got to say it's a 61 bus that has got complete

911 underpinning. So it's got a 993 motor in it. It's got a G 50 transmission in it. Its suspension

is all, you know, really dialed in. The car is really actually pretty nice. It's like I keep

pulling a car. Forgive me, but I actually bid on it. Unfortunately, you know, I looked at it as a

bid on it for what the engine was worth and the drivetrain was worth and so on. So the guy apparently

it's on peak car market. I believe the guy in the deal tank is looking for $60,000 for this,

which I thought that was kind of strong money. So and it's up in Canada too. So you got to import

it, but those weren't really my two choices. So I'm not even going to let that. That's not even

one to pick. This was my first choice and this kind of gets back to my conversation from last week.

I'm still in that mode where I'm hunting for my wife's next vehicle, whatever that might be.

And these two cars are always in the conversation. Obviously, Tim, I know you will have some input

here. He has an R for listeners only. He has an RS6 Avant up and it's a performance. No,

it's the pre-performance version to 2001. Right? Yeah. Yep. This car is a 21. I think it has about

40,000 miles on it. This car sold. Oh, sorry. I'm not seeing myself here, but hang on a minute.

Go ahead. It's sold for $75,000. Yeah. Both of these cars are in that 75 to 90 range,

but this is the first car. I'm not going to go too deep in it. I think everybody gets what these

cars are. I mean, it's just a really very, very attractive Audi wagon, lots of performance. And

it's just, I just find this car to be extremely attractive. I really just love the car. The other

one is a, excuse me, hang on, hang on, hang on. It's an E63 wagon. There we go. That's what I

needed. It's an E63 S-formatic station wagon, Mercedes. I've owned Mercedes and never owned

the wagon. Anybody on the group here ever owned a wagon? Not the Bams. I've had Mercedes. I think

again, both very nice cars. Obviously, the AMG car sold for a little bit more here. I

think this car went in the 90s, but I think they're both highly attractive, very functional,

but very sporty sedan type cars that have a little bit of utility to them. And they're

underappreciated right now. They just start making as many wagons these days. Everybody's

and I kind of like them both. I would take either of these cars candidly.

I'll go last since I had to make that decision back in 2021. Paul, you first.

I mean, the first question is how much warranty is left on the Audi? Because I have learned,

I would, first question, how much is left on the warranty? And second question,

is your wife really on board with a wagon or is that a you thing?

Well, why does that matter, Paul? Because I have learned that car guys love wagons

and their spouses would rather have an SUV. So this is ultimately a indulgent

thing for you and a moot point for your wife, because she'll probably end up in a Range Rover.

I could tell by last week she will end up in a Range Rover. But that being said,

I love the AMG wagon. I would choose that. I would actually maybe even choose

about five years older with a little more miles because the value just dumps. And that's where

the benefit is. But I would not own an Audi product out of warranty ever. All right, so let me give

you the counterbalance to that. You can get a fidelity warranty, which basically is the warranty

that underpins most extended car warranties on that Audi. We did it for, I forget our cars got

20,000 miles on it. I think our warranty goes to 120,000 miles or something like seven years,

and it costs five grand. And it's basically bumper to bumper. It covers everything. So that's

how you get 20,000 miles on a 2021 car, Tim. Yeah, obviously, it's not that that car is in

North Carolina, right? Yeah, no, we keep that one down at the near the airport in Atlanta.

But but also, you know, the thing about those, yeah, the extended funny thing,

if you ever go to the extended warranties and you want to see what fails on an older car,

like a seven year old car, just look at what they exclude. And that's what fails on the car.

I did. I did. And actually, the fidelity warranty, I'm not I'm not selling fidelity warranties,

but the fidelity warranty is very comprehensive. And I went to the Audi dealership, actually,

the guy that watches the Audi for me went to the Audi dealership. And that's what

he went in there. He also has an Avant, you know, RS six. And he was thinking about doing himself.

What does this not cover? And he's much more analytical than I am. And the answer came up

with basically, everything's covered. If you do, there's two tiers to the fidelity warranty.

If you do the top one, it basically covers everything. And then he asked, well, what

fails on the cars? And you should remember this too, Dave, there's a recall on the digital

on the on the main dash that they'll replace for free up to 100,000 miles. But the main problem on

those jet that generation of cars is the that, you know, they're, oh, crap, I don't remember,

they got a big ass battery, it's not a plug in hybrid, but it's a it's got a hybridization

that causes to have more. Anyway, those batteries are also covered under warranty as well. So if

you get one, take it the Audi dealership, there's three or four recalls on that. So there you go.

Okay, to me the chair, ultimately, the big thing about those is, if you look at five years out,

I'll bet you anything the Audi is worth 30% less than the Mercedes. I bet you I tried to find this

car. I mean, obviously, I think I'm not sure how far back the this one goes is 21 the first year

21. Yeah. Yeah. But I couldn't find anything older than that. I would agree with you on that, Paul.

And back to your point, you are 100% right. My wife is an SUV gal all the way, right? But she is

the one who's been toying with this wagon concept, not me. And she likes certainly the Mercedes wagon.

The other car and I frankly, I mean, I could really make a case for the Sport Turismo Panamera.

I mean, there's a lot of car there. I like the Sport Turismo. That's a great car. I was going

to throw that in the mix here, but I figured I'd give some Porsche love later on. But for me,

and I don't know, okay, so what do you think before I say what I would pick?

I'm an Audi guy. I've got a 21S4 with I just click 83,000 miles on it the other day. And I

also have Fidelity Platinum warranty on that car. And they do play, they do pay for a lot.

And it's the only, and I've also, I mean, my dad has a GMC something or other, and I talked him

into getting one of them as well. To buy an extended warranty on a 40 or 60,000 mile car

like that one, it would probably cost you $15,000. When you buy extended warranties on cars, it's

always, it's like buying life insurance. The younger the car is, that's when you can get that

seven year 120,000 mile warranty. I think mine is seven year 100. And I'm actually going to get

to 100 probably next year on my car because of how much I drive. But I'm an Audi guy. I have

clients with those cars. I think they're pretty great. I do love the Mercedes as well. I think

they probably sound a little bit better. But I probably pick the Audi in this instance.

I just wish preferred had a little bit less miles and was a little bit more of an interesting color.

When should you not? Casey, Casey just said something really important. Hopefully you guys

were listening is that I think that the warranty cost goes to the roof once the car is out of its

original warranty. I believe that's true. But the lower the mileage, the better. But again, if you

get a fidelity, fidelity warranty that overlaps the existing warranty, you're kind of just wasting

your money. So if you can time it out so the one warranty picks up where the other one doesn't.

But what women wouldn't buying like a fidelity platen, which I think that is the upper end one,

when does that not make sense? Like when would you not buy a warranty like that?

I mean, just to let you know, because I've dealt with this a lot with the fidelity and other

warranties as a car dealer, when the manufacturer original four year 50,000 mile warranty, which

is pretty common, when it's within one month or 1000 miles of it expiring, you can get another

warranty with that's without it being very expensive. So my opinion is, and then my dad's

shopping for use Mcconny's like, well, I want to get him a CPO warranty. I'm like, that doesn't

really matter. Get a car that's under the manufacturer warranty. So it's got 1000 miles or

or a month left. And then you can go call Porsche dealers because in California, you can't buy a

fidelity direct, you have to buy it through a dealer. And then you can just shop it around. And

every dealer sells, as you know, Tim, probably sells that warranty for a different price.

Yep. And the end of the day, just get the warranty from the cheapest dealer.

We got our thing about the thing about CPO, though, Paul, and I'll point this out is that

it's more than just a warranty. It's the car has to be brought to a level, which other warranties

don't require the consumable items have to be over 50%. And all necessary maintenance

maintenance has to be performed to that point. So there is a big value in CPO.

I would probably urge your dad to consider both options. But I'm a big believer in extended

warranties. I don't believe that I will keep my car much longer past the end of the warranty.

I think I'm on my third steering wheel on my Audi. And every time I install one of those,

it's like $2,600 because of something that has to do with the ADAS system. And I just don't want

to deal with that. Well, just, and this could be an argument for another time. In California,

and I have seen this so many times on vehicles we've got that were still under CPO warranty,

the CPO part, the certified part of it, I have seen, I mean, I hate to say it, I call bullshit.

I mean, I have seen where I know what turn nine dirt looks like at Willow Springs when

he pulled the panel off the bottom. And it's still there, which means the panel never came off.

I have seen countless laziness from the dealers that so called certified it. And the only thing

I was certified was because it was still under the original manufacturer warranty, so they

didn't necessarily worry about it. And like I tell people, just because it's at a Porsche dealer

and it's CPO and it's used, go get an independent inspection. I have seen so much disparity in

terms of what is actually certified from dealer to dealer in my opinion. I don't disagree. I mean,

it all comes down to whoever's doing the work, be it an independent shop or a dealership.

Dave, do you do pre-purchase inspections? Is that part of your jam?

Oh, yeah, all the time. What do you charge for a couple of them?

What's a PPI cost? Well, it just depends on how far we go. And we normally charge based on the

time and we put into it really. But to do a couple of hours, which is going to let you do compression

and leak down on an air cooled car, for example, or a bore scored examination that can go a little

longer with a camera, that kind of thing. You're going to look at a couple of hours, so probably

two to seven hundred, excuse me, four to seven hundred dollars would be a good PPI.

What would that cost Cal, Paul? Yeah, like he said, I mean, I would say if you have an air

cooled car and you're doing a leak down and compression and a really, especially a valuable

car where you're really looking at stuff because it sways value, I would say you're definitely in

seven hundred to a thousand dollars. I mean, the average, I would say the average rate for a good

independent shop in Orange County is you started about two hundred an hour. And I always tell people

it's literally you're paying for time and a good shop will be smart enough to when they think there

is a deal breaker, stop spending the time, call the buyer. And by the way, PPI and buying a car,

really good topic, you know, I see it on both ends as a buyer and seller.

Let's do a next show. Yeah, let's do a next show. I think that's a great idea. Let me write that

down. It is. It is a good idea. All right. So guys, listen, we just got another show done. What do

you think? I think it was like the shortest one ever. Two hours even. It was the shortest one of

the last three. That's true. You know, every time we get one of these shows that we always message

back and forth saying we've got to get it down to 90 minutes, we've got to get the time down.

But you know what? We just need to wave the white flag and realize we're never going to do it.

So we just need to man up. We need to put on the adult diapers and we just need to basically

make it work. We're whatever Paul is doing right now. I'm not going to ask. So listen, guys,

he's got a very pleasant look on his face. He has a very relieved look on his face. All right,

here it is. There is another full throttle talk for you guys. Listen, if you've not yet subscribed

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Ferrari Speciale vs Porsche GT3 RS: Are We Being Played? | Winter Car Prep, Listener Q&A + More

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