First Track Day Lessons, Z06 Incident & Why Lightweight Cars Win

Oh, awesome.

Oh, Blair, you had a great time yesterday.

Oh, my gosh, I was just I was just telling you guys, I don't want to praise myself.

I really want to praise this Lotus, but seriously, what what you built

together with the Lotus engineers of 20 plus years ago, I had a phenomenal day

on track and that Elise yesterday.

And I just I'm still riding a serious high.

Welcome to full throttle talk.

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Buckle up, hit the gas and let's go full throttle into today's episode.

You are clearly.

And what we're talking about is you did your first track day

and you're recently acquired from Chenoux, amazing his 111 RS.

And I had to start recording a little bit early today

because you couldn't stop yammering about how awesome it was.

I want to hear the story about I want to hear about the story about you and the Z06.

Well, so the first thing I'll say is that this car, you know, you get out there

with any car you've never driven on track and there's always high

like anticipation and nerves and butterflies and you're in the grid

and it's like, holy crap, how's this going to go?

I and yeah.

And we talked before, right?

Yeah, we had talked before you went out there and you're like a little nervous.

I said, don't worry, it's going to communicate.

And then you just, you know, just just go with it.

Well, and I've never turned traction control off on the track.

I would say I'm a pretty decent amateur driver.

You know, I love I love to try to get better.

But I want to get home in one piece.

So I don't get too crazy out there and I want to have fun and work on my skill.

So I asked you, like, anything I need to be worried about

with no traction control, whatever.

He's like, no, car communicates everything.

You'll be great. And boy, was he right.

So we line up and get going.

And there's a bunch of C8s in our group, C8, Z06.

There's two GT fours, M twos, you know, another Lotus Elise Cup car,

Cup car, a great variety.

It was with NASA.

And so we line up, you know, again, anticipation.

It was a cool morning.

We get going.

We do the out lap, warm up lap.

And then right as we get green flag and everybody kind of starts to drive,

probably a little prematurely, our track at Utah Motorsports Campus,

there's not the runoff areas are all dirt and gravel.

So I come around, turn whatever three and we're on half the track.

It's a big track up here, but we were just running half of it.

And, you know, when anybody goes off track, you see this massive plume

of dust and gravel.

And so I come around this corner and I see this cloud of dirt.

And I think, oh, no, we had literally just started.

And there was a father and son and props to these guys.

Because so cool that they were doing this together.

The dad was driving a seven 18 GT four in a manual.

The son who could, he was probably early twenties.

And he has track experience.

So this is not a knock on him.

He was in the C eight zero six was that bright blue color, gorgeous car.

And so I see this plume of smoke and I immediately think, oh crap,

who went off and you can't see until you go around that corner.

He was seriously probably 40, 50 yards off the track.

I come around the corner and I'm like, oh, please, not the zero six.

And that thing was so far out into the dirt in a gulf of like dust storm.

And apparently what had happened was that we talked to the kid afterwards.

They had just bought some carbon wheels to put on that car.

And when they had them had them put on, something happened with like

the ABS sensor or whatever.

And the guy at the dealership told them, oh, it's all good.

You know, you won't have any trouble.

It's just like being in race mode and it disables ABS.

This kid had driven the zero six on track before.

So it wasn't a case of huge horsepower got away from him.

But he locked up his brakes apparently.

And oh my gosh, did he fly off into the junk?

So a little bit of a mechanical failure.

And sadly, the zero six spent about a minute and a half on track

before he just destroyed his tires and the carbon fiber wheels too.

They're not going to like that.

Very expensive wheels.

That's where our brains went.

$13,000 and you have to now have them reset.

So listen, this is full throttle talk.

Welcome back.

And we are going to be talking a lot about tracking cars today

because these two guys have been doing real life tracking.

Why been doing simulator tracking in my cool performance simulator?

So if you like, or if you're curious about actually getting your car

on track in real life or otherwise, you're going to love today's show.

And we're also talking about a lot of the other topics that you guys

are always asking us more about.

We're talking about automotive news and we're going to answer the question.

The question that everybody wants answered is that 992 the Porsche 992 GT3

truly the greatest modern sports car.

Blair ended the last week's show with that very question.

So we are going to really deep dive into answering all those questions.

And we're going to talk about we're going to do a this or that segment

on choose two Japanese cars.

Some last 50 years that you believe are the most beautiful.

Don't worry.

I know it sounds high nerd, but you're going to love what we came up with as far as options.

So guys, welcome to today's show.

Thanks to be here.

Yep.

All right.

So let's let's dive right in.

So first of all, congratulations, Blair, for getting your brand new to you.

Lotus out on the track.

That sounds exciting and she knew I'm looking by the way.

If you guys are just listening and not watching us, I'm looking at these two

guys and she knew is wearing his new Corvette racing suit.

And the track you have behind us is the one in Perump, right?

That's right.

Spring Mountain Motor Resort.

Yep.

Exactly.

And that's where I'm recording from from Perump right now.

You know, so got all my gear remote.

So hopefully it's all works well.

Oh, it sounds great.

And you look great too.

So good job.

And you were on the Utah Motor Speedway Blair.

That's where you were.

Yeah, Utah Motor Sports Campus.

I think they just renamed it Burr Brothers Motor Park.

It's changed ownership, you know, multiple times since Larry Miller built it

a number of years ago.

It's it's a great facility, not the best kind of flat, but like legit track.

So she knew you said Spring Mountain has a ton of track from a from a distance

standpoint, like how many miles are they up to down there?

Nine miles of track.

It's insane.

They they you know, they run multiple configurations at the same time.

So yesterday, you know, the members, we were on the Charleston Peak, which is

their newest configuration, which has multiple, multiple configurations.

You can run it clockwise, counterclockwise.

And then there was a couple of different Corvette schools that were running

on different configurations.

So yeah, it's the place is amazing.

You know, I was actually talking to the general manager last night, you know,

in the clubhouse and, you know, they've they've not run the full thing stitched

together, but they've run, I want to say five and a half mile circuit

stitched together.

So that's just, you know, it's crazy.

Like even straight, it was 3.2, 3.3, you know, a mile, you know,

configuration that we're running.

And yeah, it's it's fun.

I'm curious.

So when I was out on my go cart on the go cart track, it started to get hot.

And I was out there.

I could have done probably 10 laps and it's not a huge track and I couldn't

make it past four.

So do they even run that track in Perump in the summer?

Because Perump is like real heat in the summer.

That's like Vegas high desert heat.

Yeah, it is.

And so they start a little bit earlier, like 7 a.m.

And they shut it down at noon.

And frankly, you know, like I generally, you know, just skip out in July and August

because it's just too hot, you know, by 10 o'clock.

Even it's so, so hot.

You need to have a cool suit, you know, to really run and yeah, but it's blazing

hot and you don't realize that you're because you're so you're concentrating

so much and at least this has been my experience.

Maybe you guys are more sophisticated than me behind a wheel on a race track,

but I don't pay attention enough to how my, uh, how I'm feeling until I'll

start to get lightheaded before I'm consciously aware that I'm getting

lightheaded and the only and I have to, my driving starts to get a little

sloppy and I have to say, Tim, why are you driving a little sloppy?

And it's almost always because, Oh, you should have paid attention two laps

ago when you were starting to dehydrate and almost passed out.

I mean, maybe you guys are more consciously aware when you're behind

the wheel on a track.

I'm not.

We're, I mean, you're spot on, man.

That is so, yeah, it is so, so true.

You got the dehydration thing out in the desert.

It just, it just sucks it out of you.

And there's this one time I was out, it was like 10, 12 years ago.

I had, um, my aerial atom out here is a spec race, Adam.

And then I had my lease and I was going back and forth between the two cars.

Cause I was doing some testing and it was kind of a very hot day.

Like I want to just say 95 degree day.

And I remember thinking as I was driving in, going, yeah, man, this

Adam's going to suck.

It's going to be, you know, the sun's just going to beat me down.

You know, and, but in fact, the funny thing is the lease was the car that was

too hot, um, whereas with the Adam, the wind was blowing through me, cooling

me off.

So the funny thing is the open car was actually better to drive and from a

driver comfort perspective was actually superior in the heat.

So do you, when you're in an open car, where you're leaving your

race suit a little bit open, even though you're not really supposed to do that

in your helmet, a little bit, no, no, no.

So I run these stand 21 suits and they breathe really well.

Stand 21, that's kind of what they're known for is heat stress and, you know,

managing temperature.

And it's funny because this one that I'm wearing now is a step down from

my other one, um, in breathability.

And I can tell the difference.

This is significantly hotter than my other one.

So, you know, I got a great deal on this, this Corvette, you know,

stand 21 suit, but you know, on a hot day, I think I'm going back to my old

suit because it breathes way better.

This is going to, I think become my winter race suit because it's got

Since we are talking about Blair was about to tell us a story.

Well, he did tell us a story about the zero six.

You are going to be driving zero six is on spring mountain later today.

Is that correct?

And so I went, well, I got a ride in one yesterday and today later, I'm supposed

to be driving one.

So hopefully, you know, fingers crossed, you know, I'll get a chance to, to give

it a, give it a go.

You know, it's interesting.

The, the, um, I'm interested in zero six to use as a GT touring car, right?

And so, you know, you look at the wheelbase difference between, you know,

the, the zero six, it's like, I don't know, 16, 17 inches, a longer wheelbase

than say a Lotus Elise.

So the ride comfort that can come from that, it's really, really interesting.

And we can really nerd out if we want to talk about ride frequency and, and the

delay, but you know, the, when you have a longer wheelbase, what it really boils

down to is the delay in the front wheel in, you know, feeling a, you know, input

from a road surface and that delay to when the rear hits it, right?

So the longer that delay is, the more comfortable the ride can be.

So anyways, I, you know, my interest in, in, in driving the car, frankly, is to

see a bit more about the comfort, um, just to make sure my wife is, is not

going to be completely perturbed with this car choice for, for touring around

the country.

So anyways, I'm excited to check it out today.

That's actually kind of interesting and with regards to what you just said, but

on your lease, which is now Blair's lease.

So if on the same track, even though there's a huge horsepower difference and

let's say spring mountain between the zero six and that a lease, if you could

guess, which would you be quicker, which car would you be quicker in?

Oh, you know, look, that zero six is ridiculously fast.

Okay.

I think it's just, I'm going to be faster than the zero six.

It's just, you know, a lot less effort to, to go that fast, um, you know, when

you don't have to shift and, and manage, you know, that part of driving, it's

hard to argue, um, you know, these paddle shift cars, you know, uh, they're just

faster and it's just, and the car makes so much more power.

So yeah, the zero six would be, I would be faster myself, you know, in, in, in the

zero six, then, then even our one, 11 RS.

What are you, any chance you're going to be driving a zero one while you're there?

So they, they have them.

No, the answer is no, but, um, you know, I was talking to a couple of

instructors about it and they, they'll lead the zero six school with the

ZR ones and there's, there's a couple of instances where they just kind of show

the students how much faster the ZR one is and they'll pull away from those

guys, like they're standing still is, is what, what, what the, one of the

instructors said to me, the car is ridiculously fast.

It is so insanely fast.

Yeah.

You're not curious what that feels like.

Yeah.

I'm sure I'll, I'm sure I'll drive one at some point, but right now I'm, my, my

attention is focused on the zero six, man.

I just really am excited about that naturally aspirated engine and the way

it sounds.

I'm in the car.

It was awesome.

I was on the outside of it was rubbing the motor a bit for me.

It's love it.

Just love it.

That's awesome.

Blair, you've got to say, well, well, I think what's fascinating to me, you

bring up the Elise and the zero six, you know, time wise, one of the things I was

most curious about is how quick am I going to go around a track in this car that

I just bought from she knew that he built and the, the majority of my track

experience has been in a nine, eight, one came in GT four and I have my

experience yesterday is I'm a decent driver, but I was passed out of 20 guys.

Now this is so anecdotal and relative and whatever.

So take this for what it's worth.

I got past once I gave one point by and we were only on a two mile track.

So it was like, but I gave one point by and it's a guy I know out there who

probably has 10 times the track experience I have.

And he was in a seven, 18 came in GT four and he even got out afterwards like,

Hey, I was surprised at how well you were keeping up with me after you pointed

me by, I mean, it took a few laps for him to start to separate a little bit.

And I am convinced.

So from the other fascinating thing is like when Matt Farah reviewed this car,

he, uh, he was on track alone in that video.

So there's no real frame of reference.

He didn't talk about lap times.

He didn't talk about relative to the other cars on the straight.

My buddy was in a Camaro SS one LE, for example, let's get the LT one.

I think 450 horse and torque.

We were about dead, even on the straight in terms of speeds.

That's incredible.

What this car is on.

Yeah, well, that, that's gives you a sense of what the car is on a straight,

but you start going into the corners.

I mean, I just started picking literally everybody off on track,

except that really great driver in a seven 18.

And he wasn't that much faster than I was.

And, and he had downforce.

Yeah.

He had real downforce.

You do not in the least cup car.

Yeah.

No, well, even that GT four, right?

I mean, he's that car's got a wing on it.

Okay.

If we add a wing, you know, a rear wing and a front spoiler on your car,

the downforce, it's like the hand of God holds you to the back.

It's amazing.

So you could have gone significantly faster with, with a dental downforce.

You know, the, that car's got our Katana 275, you know, a supercharger kit on it.

So it's making about 275 horsepower, you know, and at 2000 pounds wet, you know,

the power to weight ratio is really, really good.

And that's, that's what gave you, you know, the ability to stay with that

Camaro because, you know, it makes a lot of power, but it's, it's heavy as hell.

Right.

And so, yeah.

No, I was, I was impressed with your driving, man, because that cup Elise had

downforce and you were staying with a guy in the corners.

And then, you know, that, that, you know, that's amazing.

Really.

It's a good job.

And, you know, ride height, we set that right height up for the street.

You know, with, this was a track focused car.

We would lower it another 10 millimeters, which would have helped you as well.

So anyhow, that was, that was so impressed.

You know, I was very impressed, Blair.

I appreciate that.

It was just unbelievable to be behind these cars.

And I drove behind a C8, just stingray.

And he had the Z 51 on his car.

And it was really fun.

He was a good driver.

It was fun to follow him.

I followed him a lot.

And then I would get the point by, by this guy, but it was so awesome to go

deep into a corner and you see them break.

And you just know that you don't have to break there.

And you know, you say the hand of God pushing you down.

It already feels like that with these cars relative to what I'm used to.

I couldn't imagine getting into a real track car, like the one you have down at

spring mountain.

Um, have you ever driven a car with real downforce before?

Like, have you ever driven a car with wings?

No, my GT four, but that's like, probably not real down.

Driven a car with real downforce.

Oh yeah, of course.

You know, yeah, absolutely.

You know, our first art car, which was an Elise, we campaigned in Lotus Cup.

It had a huge rear wing.

It had a huge splitter canards at the front.

We had side sills.

We had this huge diffuser.

I mean, it looked like a cartoon sticking out the back of the car, you know,

but man, that car could pull nearly two Gs in a corner.

It was insane.

We, we had to dry sump that car because it was just pulling such insane, um, you

know, G forces, but yeah, it's amazing.

You're so much more comfortable.

You know, we just actually set up wings on a friend's car a couple of years ago.

And we were both out at the track at the same time here at spring mountain.

And in my car, I run now it has no downforce on it.

And it was great because we're jumping back and forth between the two cars.

And, you know, Rob's car with, with downforce versus mine with no downforce.

What a difference.

Oh my God.

You're so much more confident going through the fast sweepers.

It's, it's amazing difference.

Wow.

So on the simulator, on this cool performance simulator, uh, you, the difference,

and I'm, uh, on Suzuka this weekend, because it's Suzuka weekend, right?

And so far I'm doing terrible.

So hard, but then you go, I usually champion, I usually race a GT three, um, uh, for our

1896 GT three, you know, and I got that car pretty much figured out.

And it's a lot of fun, but I always win.

I'm winning consistently on the mid Ohio sports car track.

And that's originally where I got my skip barber racing license and I did it on a

car with no aerodynamics and most of the weekend when I was earning the license,

it was raining.

So I really had to earn that license.

But anyway, I'm like, story short, soon as you get into it on the simulator, and

this is the same simulator that's used by something like seven of the top 10,

literally the same rig used by seven of the top 10 formula one drivers.

It's built by Lando Norris's brother, Oliver Norris.

So if you guys are looking for a race simulator, looking to cool performance,

there's a lot of things they do, which are really amazing.

Like the pedal set or actually hydraulic pedals out of a real race car and all

the things are, they're, and that's one of their advantages and they do have, they

use iRacing, but they also have their own software that was developed by the

formula one drivers.

So when you start driving on the simulator with a car with aerodynamics with

downforce, the difference in everything about the car is so hard to learn.

It is, it feels more safe and more secure, but all your breaking points are screwed

up. Everything's completely different.

Matter of fact, you don't even have to break some of the time.

And if you're going to be fast, you have to have the, and this isn't a simulator.

I can't imagine when it's like in real life, where you could actually get hurt.

Your tolerance for over moving past your natural fear zone has to be incredibly

high, you know, it just, it, because you're just, your brain is telling you,

you're going way too fast and then you get passed in the corner by somebody going

10 times faster.

So anyway, everyone, when you did promise you, we're going to give you some

track talk today.

So there you go.

All right, guys, let's move on.

I know, but by the way, that helmet is pretty damn cool.

Oh, I had that made in Germany.

I love that.

Hey, and the, the last thing I just have to say is she that is helmet.

For those of you guys who are just listening, go ahead.

Oh, really?

That?

Yeah, that is awesome.

I just want one more time.

Props to she knew you built a hell of a car.

It was, it was just special to be in and I've never had a car that I felt

more in tune with that the pedal box is a little small, even with your

spacer on their heel and toe was like the only challenge I had.

And I normally am pretty good at that.

And on the street, you're used to, you're, you're used to perfect pedals from BMW.

That when you heel and toe, you know, in BMWs, you're so spoiled.

So now you got to do a little bit of work, but you had driving shoes, right?

Like real narrow shoes.

Well, not exactly driving shoes, but the narrowest shoes I've got.

It's get a, get a, get a pair of Pilates.

They're, they're, it's a great racing shoes, right?

Or real ones.

I mean, they make, they make a good racing version too, but they make a

good street shoe that works on, on the, the Elise pedals.

So, yeah, well, but let's talk about that.

Let's talk about that for a second.

Cause that's a good nerd point that you just made.

So real racing shoes, do you have any Blair, like honest to God, you know,

sparkos or something that's going to be similar.

So the sole, the sole on racing shoes and she knew is going to give me all kinds

of analytical information to make me sound like I don't know what I'm talking

about because I mostly don't, but the souls on racing shoes and boots are

really, really thin.

And that is because she knew.

Well, you know, you need to have good feel.

So there's the, there's a balance that they strike between the being, giving

you feel, but also giving you a reasonable amount of stiffness to, to reduce

the foot fatigue that can happen, particularly with endurance racing.

So there's a balance that you got to strike because you're so tall, Blair,

you need every fraction of an inch that you can get from, you know, from your

inseam, you know, perspective, right?

And so like the, the, um, most of the really hardcore, you know, racing

shoes, like I wear stand 21 when I'm here at the track, but day to day, when

I need to jump into a lotus, um, I'm wearing Pilates because they're

comfortable to walk around in most race shoes, honestly, aren't super

comfortable to walk around in.

So yeah, you, you, you would, you will benefit because they're, they're

also very narrow as well.

So, um, it's critical on, on these cars.

And it's funny when you go to a lotus event, uh, versus say a Porsche

event or say a BMW event, uh, which, you know, I've been, I've been in all

of those clubs now for, you know, 25 plus years.

Um, you'll, you'll see the difference in footwear.

Okay.

The most events, everyone's got driving shoes on BMW event.

There's guys with Doc Martens and I'm like, okay.

Okay.

So where do the guys drive at the Corvette event?

So you're going to pay attention today?

Look at, oh yeah.

I mean, I've got new balance, new balance.

Oh yeah.

Big old white dad shoes, right?

Yeah, that's right.

Well, also the thickness of the soul is also something to do with the being

able to feel the feedback from the pedal set.

The course, this isn't really relevant when you come by break by wire as much

as it used to be, but that was the original reasons because you can feel

more through the soul of your shoe.

And I've seen some of these formula one guys, they'll do a, be in a simulator

and they won't wear any shoes.

They'll just be in socks.

So I thought that was kind of interesting too.

Well, so guys, what an automotive news.

And I'm, by the way, very jealous of both of your experiences.

So go both of you.

And I'm sure all the listeners, you're motivating them all to actually get

out and drive their cars on the track.

There's a lot of, oh, uh, we are publishing an article as promised and is

very comprehensive in our full throttle talk newsletter, which is going to be, I

believe a complete, um, catalog directory for every reality rally happening in the

United States, be it for a small club or, um, even a, you know, large PCA event.

We, I put our cloud bot on to work and it took an hour to comb through every

single little Facebook group and every single little whatever.

And it's created this massive spreadsheet and we're going to publish it.

Hopefully today.

So if you want a full directory of all the rallies that are happening in the

country, I imagine that we've captured all of them.

All right, guys.

Let's go on to automotive news.

What caught your eye in automotive news, Shenu?

So you guys may have seen this thing that, uh, Porsche, they filed a patent, um, on

what they call shift by wire system.

So they're kind of, you know, combining a traditional H pattern, right?

Manual shifter with an automatic gearbox.

So it's got kind of this dual mode so you can kind of manually shift through

this thing or you can leave it in auto mode.

So it, you know, it's a simulated feel.

I think they even actually put in the, in this patent, um, which they filed

actually this patent, um, in, it looks like August 2024 and now it's been, you

know, issued in March of 2026, but part of what they put in there is also even

simulating a clutch, you know, as, as an option.

So I, you know, that caught my attention because I think this is the, this

is the world that we're, we're moving towards.

And that is, you know, more and more things that are simulated, you know, in

this case, at least they give you a, you know, a gear lover that you can hold

on to and move around for, for, for people that still want to have a bit of that feel.

Wow.

That sounds like a lot of expensive stuff that's going to break.

And that it does.

What do you guys think about that?

What do you think about that, uh, Blair, the idea of having everything simulated?

Well, I mean, I, obviously it's a wait and see.

It's like better than not making an effort to make cars more engaging, but, you

know, coming off the track yesterday and what I just drove, it's like, it's,

it's hard to fathom how I could get as excited about it, you know, from an

engagement and really connection to the mechanical side of a car, which I hit,

I felt like I hit somewhat peak experience with yesterday.

So, you know, it's better than nothing.

I hope they can find a way to make it cool.

I think they're all trying to find ways to keep engagement and

enthusiasts driving alive and well in spite of the climate we're in.

So wait and see for me, Tim, any, any interest in this?

I am just, I'm just thinking how, I'm just thinking how happy

Shenu must feel knowing how happy you are with the car.

Honestly, that's what I'm thinking.

I am, man.

I'm like, I'm cloud nine.

I'm so happy.

Seriously.

I mean, you're to have a cut, have a customer basically and her friend that's

so elated with the car that he spent so much time engineering and designing and

all the custom built parts and all the rest of it and have, and you have that

experience the first time out on the track.

That has to be a peak for you, but also a peak for Shenu professionally.

So I'm happy for both of you guys.

It's awesome.

Just, just, just in Shenu's little old Lotus, you know, just getting

point buys by C8 Corvettes and, and, and literally everything GT fours as well.

It's just, it's a, it's a thrilling thing.

It's incredible experience.

So I'll answer the question about what you were just saying.

The, I'm going to go back to simulators at the cool performance simulator.

He just came out with a, I should have had a picture of it, an actual manual

transmission thing that's using an actual manual transmission.

I forget the race parts provider.

That's what he does.

That's the reason the simulators are so badass is because they're taking

actual automotive parts and they're making them work with a simulator.

So normally when you have a pedal set on a simulator, it's a, it's completely

and totally nothing about it.

It's mechanical.

It's all digital and same goes with these people that have the, you know, the

shifters, it's all kind of thing fed through, you know, computer chips.

But what he's doing is he's got a real honest, got a shifter and you can see

the internals of it working.

He put it, he puts it in a plexiglass thing.

So if you're going to tell me, I have to start living with simulated

experiences, if they're fed through mechanical widgets, then I think I'll

probably be okay with it to be honest with you.

And that might actually make me, um, I will say this, it is fascinating to

me, the Ferrari on their new, uh, I don't know how to pronounce it, but their

new SUV, though I'm sure they won't call it an SUV, the electric thing.

They're coming out with Luce, Luce.

Yeah, there you go.

Thank you, sir.

With, by the way, you look like a priest with wearing your, I don't know if

you looked at me, I feel like I got to confess a few things.

The high priest of Lotus enhancements, right?

Well, sorry, Tim, to interrupt, I didn't know Shanu was such a god in the Lotus

community.

Everybody yesterday was like, Oh, Shanu, Shanu, they see my car.

And so yeah, he is the high priest of Lotus, by the way.

Yes, for sure.

Well, so anyway, if you're going to have, uh, the, uh, the new CEO Ferrari or the

CEO of Ferrari or somebody like that said that the haptics were one of the

biggest reasons they went to haptics is because they were vastly cheaper to

produce than real buttons and whatnot.

And so these new cars that they're going to come out with, you know, that

Luce or, you know, interior is going to then translate to the other Ferrari.

So we're looking, we're sort of going back to this sort of it's a digital car,

but it's having analog switches.

That probably is a compromised person that I can, I can accept.

What do you think, Shanu?

Yeah, that's exactly what's going to happen, right?

You know, the pendulum has a swing in one direction.

Then we realize, Oh man, we went a little bit too far.

We got to bring it back because we've lost something that was important, right?

Some, some, some, some real, you know, emotional experience that, that wasn't,

that we discovered as important to customers and that tactile sense as an

example, or the simplicity of not having to look and read a screen to find, you

know, some control, right?

We get used to just like, you know, turning the lights on or the turn signals,

you know exactly where that stock is.

You don't have to look at it, you know, whereas, you know, when you've got to go

on a screen and go through a couple of menus to try to find a particular control.

That's just, it's not intuitive.

And so I think for a lot, you know, for a lot of reasons, you know, keeping your,

whether it's keeping your eyes on the road or just, you know, not using extra

bandwidth from the driver, right?

So I'm excited.

I think, you know, they're, they're figuring this stuff out and, you know,

kind of just even like with these new, you know, powertrains that are coming out.

And I'm actually waiting to hear about Blair's news of the week, because I

was going to talk about that one, but I thought, ah, one of you guys.

Let's go, let's go.

Let's talk about, go ahead, Blair, just to back up slightly.

What I find so fascinating by this discussion with Porsche and what we're

talking about is we're told all the time that the enthusiast doesn't matter anymore.

You know, nobody cares.

Everybody just wants an appliance to drive their little, but, you know,

auto-bot cars, you know, around town, point A to point B.

You see a lot of effort.

What's that?

Yeah, most people, that's the way, you know, they, but in, in, in light of that,

it's still fascinating to me that some of these manufacturers are going to

such extreme lengths and cost and development and whatever to cater to none

other than the enthusiast, which it gives me hope that they still do care

and why they care, even though we're not buying in masses relative to the

general population is probably because this enthusiast drive a lot of the

brand, you know, excitement.

And, and so, you know, you look at the Hyundai IONIQ 5N, you know, they've

got the simulated dual clutch shifts and they've really programmed that.

Well, I got a buddy who's got one.

I want to drive it, but, you know, like, why would they go to all that trouble

on what is a fairly mainstream car?

And they put the sport version and could not have been cheap.

So maybe their interest in catering to the enthusiast is not totally

gone and won't be, but.

So grand sport, let's go.

So yeah, Corvette finally came out and announced the grand sport.

I have a feeling Cheneau had some insider info on this because I think

it was last week's pod.

Did you?

You said, you said there may be two grand sports, which is exactly what

they announced this week.

Yeah, they were, they had, they've been testing those cars out here at Spring

Mountain, you know, and so, you know, I mean, not that I got that much

information or inside information, but yeah, the, the e-ray, you know, a program

is going to go away and, you know, just become a grand sport ex and grand

sport, you know, school out here.

And, you know, I think there was a bit of a marketing issue with the name e-ray.

It didn't quite resonate apparently with the, with the, with the Corvette, you

know, community.

So moving away from even that name seems to be something that they're kind

of happy to do.

That's fascinating.

So let's talk about the car.

Where's this thing?

Yeah.

So obviously the most noteworthy part of this, they've developed a new engine.

They're calling the LS6, which is naturally aspirated in the, in the base

grand sport, not the grand, well, it still is in the grand sport ex, but in the

ex, they're adding that electric motor, you know, on the, the front axle.

Is that right, Shanu?

Yes.

So that, that car is going to make over 700 horse.

We knew the e-ray was really freaking fast and this thing's going to be the same.

But, but the base grand sport is super interesting to me because it's

rear wheel drive, 535 horse versus 495 in the, in the standard stingray, 520 pound

feet of torque, which is like 50 pound feet of torque more than the, than the,

than the standard C8 stingray.

This thing's a 6.7 liter, I think.

So, you know, very interesting.

I, like I said, I spent a lot of time with C8s yesterday.

It was a beautiful red car that I drove a lot with on track.

And I just think they're great looking car, especially if you set them up right.

And they've got the wide body.

I mean, we've talked so much about these things, Tim, you know,

we give you crap for being the, the, the Corvette evangelist.

And yet you guys are the ones that are buying Corvettes.

You're at least racing.

And I don't own one, you know, so you guys think that Shanu is influencing us

into a lot of this is we're actually influencing him into Corvettes.

Well, I, I will say, I think it's really cool.

Obviously I'm very disappointed.

They've come out and said the C8 will not ever have a manual.

Does that mean the C9 won't?

Probably, which I think is, is silly.

You know, and if I can be a little cynical about this, starting to feel like

they're slicing the C8 onion really thin.

It's like, well, why not just buy a Z06 if you're, you know, over a Grandsport

where the C7, the C6, well, let's stop there.

You just asked a question.

So what is a Grandsport going to cost?

A hundred, a hundred and ten, something like that.

That's what I've been reading.

Yeah, probably 20 grand less than a Z06, 15, 20 grand.

We're talking, we're talking new prices, new prices.

Shanu, what's a pre-owned Z06 with, you know, that's a decent car?

What's that going to cost?

You know, I think, you know, well under sticker now, you can get a used one, you know, so.

Like a hundred grand.

Looking at used prices.

I don't know that, you know, but I'm going to guess, you know, a 10, 20 grand less

than, than, than a sticker.

So. So who's buying a Grandsport if they could get a slightly used Z06, not me.

So yeah, I mean, people that want more torque, you know, that's the biggest

difference with this Grandsport, this new engine, it's a torque monster.

And, you know, driving a car with more torque, you know, it's just easier

to do the Z06, like, you know, when I went for that ride yesterday, it's clear.

You've got to keep the revs up, you know, in order for it to make the power.

And most people want to feel power immediately.

You know, these higher revving motors are not really what most people want.

And yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean, that, that engine LS6 will probably make its way into the base, you know,

Stingray, right?

And, and I do agree with you, Blair.

I think Corvette are making maybe a few too many versions of the car,

you know, you know, a la 9-11, you know, so I think there'll be some

consolidation of that, I would guess, you know, in the next, you know, iterations.

Well, how many different variants of the 9-11 are there?

Blair, didn't you say there's like 30 or one of you guys said there's

incredible? It's over 20, it's crazy.

Yeah. So Corvette's got a ways to go.

Right. Yeah.

A manual would have been really freaking nice to put in there to differentiate

big time from these CS6, but what do I know?

Well, yeah, but you know, Blair, Tony, Tony Roma, who's like the chief Corvette

engineer, he, when they introduced this grand sport at Sebring last weekend,

he, you know, I think the reporters asked that question and he goes, look,

the customers voted, okay, we offered a manual on the last C7 grand sport

and the take rate was way too low.

He goes, people just don't want it.

You know, I know it's the enthusiast's choice, but we're in business

and we've got to make money.

You know, I'm paraphrasing him now, but, you know, that's effectively

what he was saying, that the people voted with their wallets.

And, you know, they've got to look at that because there's real cost

in offering, you know, a variant that very few people, you know, choose.

Well, good. It's a manual transmission, truthfully, really.

And let's not just be, you know, reading from our own scripts here,

but when you drive a really good paddle shift car and you're able to drive faster,

you're able to concentrate more, you're able to keep your mind on where

breaking in all the whole thing, tail breaking, all just enjoy the driving

experience more, it's a different experience, but it's a less engaging

experience than driving a manual transmission car, or it's just engaging

a different part of your brain.

I'm not convinced that a manual transmission is that much more engaging.

And I know I'm going to get hate for that, but I've driven.

Yeah, by me.

Yeah, no way, Tim, you're you're you're way off, brother.

That's to use, you know, a manual gearbox properly takes a lot more effort.

The heel and toe downshift, just just guinealing that, you know,

that takes a whole bunch of extra bandwidth, which is just taxing your brain

in a different way. And yeah, no, I think it really is.

I mean, look, to go faster on the track, you don't want to have to screw on

with stuff like that. And that's why the fastest cars are all paddle shift.

OK, that's there's no arguing that on track, but from an engagement

perspective, from a fun perspective, for most of us who realize we will never

be Lewis Hamilton, you know, you know, the heel and toe get nail in that

heel and toe downshift perfectly.

That's just one of those little points of pride and excitement when you when you

get it, you know, so I was trying to stick with the track theme that we picked

up on you guys did not. OK, fair, fair enough, fair enough.

You guys really lost the set, but that's OK.

Well, no, listen, we're not we're not going to argue that point.

That's that's for sure.

The new on a track driving fast, a paddle shift car, a Porsche PD case,

S or the Ferrari transmissions.

And I've never driven in the new C8 with, you know, their paddle shifter

driving fast with a super powerful car and you're, you know, paddle shifting.

It is incredible. Go ahead.

You know, I've probably had 10 or 12 different cars on track.

I have never driven an automatic car on track, never once.

And and I can imagine it would be awesome.

I've done some sim racing and, you know, I agree, Tim, if you've got a two,

nine, six or a zero six with that much horsepower, I can't imagine.

But the last thing I'll say about the Grandsport,

and you can tell Tony Romes, you know, like next time you rub shoulders.

Tell the guy I don't know.

I don't actually know him, but I just know tell him like Tim just said,

guys are going to buy you.

Zero six is slightly used for the same money as a as a brand new Grandsport.

That doesn't help Corvette.

And I'm sure I'll eat my words and they'll sell a crap load of these Grandsports.

Well, they will. But I'll buy a zero six used.

Is the Grandsport.

Is the Grandsport supposed to be more of a GT car than the zero six?

I suspect that it is.

Can you get the same aerodynamics on a Grandsport that you can on a zero six?

You know, I'm not sure if you can get like that zero seven package.

I think you can.

I think that's that's always been the ethos of the Grandsport is,

you know, less power like the C seven less power.

But all of the zero six running gear, the wide body suspension set up

and get the brakes, the arrow, it's like.

But but in that car, they differentiated these cars hugely

because the C seven was supercharged and made a ton of power.

And a lot of guys say that front, front engine rear wheel drive couldn't handle that.

Whereas the Grandsport could with the base, you know, motor.

So LT one in it.

So this one seems like they're they're slicing it really thin.

And I don't see why you wouldn't choose the zero six.

She knew our player.

Are you guys familiar with the brakes on the these Alcon brakes

and this different carbon technology they put in the rotors?

Are you know, talk about that either one of you?

Not me. Yeah.

I mean, I mean, you know, at a very high level, I can say, you know,

that the carbon ceramic brakes have gotten so much better now.

You know, in fact, I was talking to one of the instructors yesterday

about the zero six carbon brakes and they're not having issues on track.

You know, they're they're they're now they've got the technology figured out.

And so we I was actually talking about, yeah, I think I'm going to I'm going

to spec in carbon ceramics just because I, you know, I'll never have to change

brake pads or rotors, you know, for the life of that car.

And so for that purpose, certainly, I love the unsprung weight savings,

which is significant.

But aren't the rotors themselves made out of a different type of it's not

what carbon ceramic, whatever, it's like a different type of process

to make the rotors that dissipates heat better.

And didn't Zeos didn't Chevrolet have to change the brakes?

He's I think he's researching it now because he wants to be all

engineering with his answer.

Didn't didn't GM have to upgrade the brakes on the original C8 zero sixes

because of the fact that they were out driving the brakes on track.

And then they put on these Alcon brakes and were my remembering my history

wrong, like, I think they developed these Alcon brakes for the zero one.

And then they started putting them as an option on the zero sixes because guys

that were tracking the zero sixes, you may have a better remember this

if you're getting a used one.

Supposedly those you could run out of brakes with that car.

And that was one of the original negative feedbacks that some of the

automotive journalists were talking about that car.

You guys remember that?

I mean, I remember when Porsche came out with their PCCB, you know,

brake rotors and they were having a hell of a lot of problems on track with them.

And everyone was, you know, switching to to iron rotors because the

originals were just not holding up with track use.

What I had PCCBs on my GT4 and it made me super uncomfortable

because I don't know if the question was how much are they to replace?

I think those were like 15, 20,000 bucks for rotors.

And so it's funny that they are better at dissipating heat and longevity.

But most of the track guys are putting steel brakes on there,

even even their GT Porsches.

And they put they put those beautiful carbon ceramic rotors up on their shelf.

So they can slap them back home when they sell their car or on

Wrenlist for sale in a box.

I think we covered automotive news fairly well.

What do you guys think?

We don't need to talk about any of the recent auction results.

I mean, I wasn't paying that much attention to it, but I'll just summarize.

Go ahead.

You wrote a great article, actually, you know, if it's Magnus Walker,

you're talking about, I love that you did a great job kind of covering it.

And it sounds like the Magnus effect was, was mixed, very mixed.

Is that what you're referring to?

Well, that and the auctions that happened in Amelia Island.

And so the bellwether auctions are the ones that you sort of set the precedent

for the rest of the year happened this time of year.

And so if you're looking to see, if you're trying to read the, you know,

the tea leaves as far as where the collector car market is going, if you care,

it's doing it's alive and well.

And the observation that Blair made really, the there's a huge bifurcation

between the best of the best and the rest.

And if it's a best of the best car, it's going to do incredibly well.

Outpace all comps were constant, you know, new records being set.

But the rest, they're just essentially a lot of them are not appreciating.

And in many cases, they're depreciating.

I will say this just from watching this.

And I'm sure you guys have noticed this as well.

How fast the nineties cars have come on and completely are like becoming

the de facto go-to.

I was that it is incredible.

And the hypercars too.

A lot of these hypercars that were, you know, what was I was reading?

The Pagani, what was the original Pagani called?

And not the utopia, but the original one.

EV 110.

No, no, no, not the, not the real, not that's a Bugatti.

I'm talking about Pagani, not the original Pagani, whatever it was.

So those cars before the wire, those cars, the Zonda, was it the Zonda?

We're going to keep throwing out funny Italian words and get it eventually.

I think you just to get an Italian, uh, the Zonda, right?

So it was the Zonda.

You guys know what those originally sold for?

No.

Okay.

Do you have any ideas to know?

Okay.

So you could buy a Zonda and Julian had been to Pagani twice.

Okay.

So you, you can buy a Zonda for five or $600,000 when they originally came out

and everyone was like, who the hell's paying that?

Those cars now are selling for like $7, $8 million.

And the later version, the, you know, they kept on, they stopped making that,

that Zonda, and then they made it again.

And so the newer Zondas are now selling for like $10 million.

That's just extraordinary.

I don't know what it costs to make one of those damn things.

Okay.

Maybe she knew has some insights on that.

But I'm thinking, you know, Horatio is making some good margin on those bad

boys now, that's what I'm thinking.

And, but this goes to the point that in this day and age, there's no market

in the middle or even low end really.

There's only market.

If you want to make money in this business and the very, very high in an automotive,

but I think that's happening in a lot of other sectors as well.

Um, so I'm curious with you guys, we were talking before about analog versus digital.

What, what effect will people's lives being, uh, taken over?

If you want to say that by AI have on preferences towards analog things.

Do you think in other words, as more people start having digitized lives,

they're going to want analog things more or do you think that's just an age thing?

What do you guys think?

Like, I mean, I think she knew talks about listening to vinyl.

Well, are the kids going to follow that trend?

She knew they are.

They're already doing that.

And, and, and it's like the millennials, a hundred percent are, you know, and,

and the Gen Z's who have grown up with, with digital music there from day one.

These are kids that don't, you know, didn't go to record store and buy records

like we did, you know?

So yeah, it's, it's, I think those are exactly, um, the kind of things that people want.

They want to be, you know, they want to reconnect with things.

They, they, they want to drop, you know, the needle in, into the groove.

They want to look at the liner notes, right?

It's that interaction that I think is kind of being, you know, lost and missed

in the virtual world.

And so yeah, I think, you know, there will be a segment of the population.

You know, I don't think it's going to be the majority of the population.

Okay.

Most people still prefer convenience, right?

But I think there is going to be that sub-segment of people that want a more

analog experience.

So the more analog experience is going to become more of the, more in alignment

with maybe what a luxury experience is.

Do you think that's true?

I think so, because if you, if you look at, you know, a lot of these luxury

products are handmade, you know, they're crafted, you know, you can see the quality,

you can feel the quality.

There's certainly in some cases the markups are kind of ridiculous, but generally,

you know, if you look at an air maze, you know, piece of clothing, you know, if

you look at a really fine, you know, Swiss watch, you know, when you put a Swiss

watch on, you know, that, and compared to say, you know, a more affordable one, you

know, like, I'm just going to say this, okay, like a Seiko watch, you know, even

the really nice Seiko versus a really nice, you know, Rolex, there is a difference

in feel, you know, the Seiko might actually perform slightly better and keep

better time, but when I, because I own both, and when I wear one versus the other,

I can, there's a subtle difference that you can feel.

So I think there is a difference.

I wonder how much it's actually psychological, though, if you really think about it too.

No, I'm pretty objective, you know, about things like that, because I could, I

could give a shit about brands, you know, as far as that doesn't influence me as

much, I'm more into how does it look, how does it feel, how does it operate and work?

And so I'm pretty brand agnostic, you know, I certainly like these, you know,

nicer brands because they just generally produce better products, but I'm not

blind to them, you know, either.

So I don't know, that's just me though.

Spoken like a true, you know, Catholic priest there with your, uh, he's not a man

in the world.

We better be clear on this.

He's not a Catholic priest for those of you guys who are only listening.

He's wearing, again, a race suit.

There's a little, what would you call that?

It's a fireproof underwear from Stan 21.

And it's their label right here on the, on the mock turtle neck.

So yes, I look like a Catholic priest and, and I was raised Catholic.

I was an altar boy.

So, you know, I could, I could probably take, you know, I could probably do a

confession if you guys like, you know, it is kind of funny that they actually

designed it that way, you know, because that's what it looks like on this camera.

He's not a man in the world, you know, he just, he appreciates quality and not

brand.

So I can appreciate that.

If the car thing is going to take confessions, it's all right.

It all works.

Well, let me tell you guys a funny story.

I know I'll get some shit for this.

So during, actually, I'm not even going to tell it.

I'm not going to tell my story.

I don't want to, I don't want, I don't want you to have something here.

And I can't, we can skip segment three.

How about that?

All right.

I'll tell the story, but I'll tell the story, but I promise you, I'm going to

make some people mad when I tell the story.

All right.

So during, during COVID, um, they were obviously here in Puerto Rico, they

were trying to force the kids to all get COVID shots.

And I didn't, I wasn't convinced that the COVID shot, I was convinced that

the COVID shot was not great for kids.

There was virtually no science that was proving the kids would need the COVID

shot.

They get COVID, who cares?

It's just essentially COVID, you know, you guys remember history.

Hopefully you'll remember that.

Hopefully I'm not triggering anybody.

When it comes to kids, you've been proven right by the way.

So I know, I know for sure.

And so the, um, and that this became a bit of a tussle here in our community,

but also between honestly, between Julie and I, she was, she wanted, she, she

had a, she was listening to the white coats.

Like I'm even nervous telling the story because we're about to go with it.

So I did some more investigating and I, I was listening to a lot of podcasts.

I started talking to some doctors and they're all like, I wouldn't give my kid

that.

And so this was the thing was going back and forth.

And then the school is like, she can't come back to school unless she's got

this COVID shot.

Unless there's a religious exemption.

Okay.

I think you guys are going to figure out where I went with this.

So Julie and I both became ordained ministers.

We did.

We became ordained ministers.

So I can do weddings and funerals.

I, I can, I'm not joking.

So we're both ordained ministers and we did that.

So we could sign off that she is, has a religious exemption and she doesn't

happen to know.

So Julie goes and tells some of her, uh, the parents of these other girls

that Zoe was friends with that we did that.

And so we became, I guess, what you want to say, the signer offer of a lot

of people getting religious exemption.

So the kids didn't have to get the COVID shot.

So maybe, uh, this is now where I can either confess all of my misdeeds to

Tim or to Shanu, you know, I've got surrounded by, you know,

have your choice now, Blair.

Are you crazy?

Ask a leader.

You just need to become a bishop and we're all good.

And then we'll change the name of the show.

All right.

So yeah, let's, let's turn this religious.

Who cares about cars anymore?

People would love that, you know, for a lot of, for a lot of people, cars

are religion, you know, well, I want to get, I'm anxious to get to our segment

four, but let's get, let's go through this next segment.

This or that choose two, uh, Japanese cars from past 50 years that you

believe are the most beautiful, uh, purely on design for forget performance,

racing pedigree or spec.

Are you ready to go first Blair and Blair?

Don't try to just state your car and then don't try to sell us and why

you think it's beautiful.

Because when we've done this or that before, when we haven't just agreed with

you, you seem to like get defensive about defending your sales guys.

So yeah, I know, I know you, you, you guys agree with me or else or we're

not known to be a classically beautiful car, but it's the late 60s.

Dotson 2000 Roadster.

Every time I've seen one of these cars, I'm struck by the simplicity, the

beauty of the car.

That's all I'm going to say.

Go ahead and hate on and all you want.

Uh, the next one is the famed and I think generally widely accepted as being a

beautiful car is the FDRX seven.

Um, some cars really benefit.

I had a clown shoe and a BMW M coupe that I also put in this category.

They look better with aftermarket wheels.

If you get it just right.

And I think FDRX sevens are the same.

So my two cars, Dotson 2000 Roadster and a FDRX seven.

I think they are both spectacular looking cars.

I will choose which one we agree with and we'll vote on each at the end.

All right.

So my two, I'll go through this relatively quick so we can get to the

Porsche thing because if, if my, uh, if the things we haven't talked about

previously, don't raise eyebrows, the Porsche thing certainly will.

All right.

My first choice was this one.

All right.

The Toyota 2000 GT, I believe that's the only Japanese collector car that ever

has made it into the real ranks of being a collector car and sold for over a million

dollars, but I think this car, this car is spectacular.

I think I have different perspectives.

I've sat in one of those, no guy that has one, they are spectacular.

Does he still have it?

Oh yeah.

It's being refurbished to concord level quality and it was already really nice.

So I think it's some dude in Costa Rica or something that's, that's refurbishing

this car, restoring it.

Yeah.

There are, I'm sure there are a lot of actually really good restoration shops

down that part of the world because they don't have to deal with all the, uh, you

know, requirements to do real bodywork or use lead as a filler opposed to plastic

or all the rest of it.

All right.

Here's my other choice.

And I know this is boring.

That's a great picture of the NA Miata.

Right in a, thank you in a Miata.

So there's two choices.

I'd have the black with red or the British race in green.

Now I'm biased cause Julie and I have a black with red ourselves though.

That isn't the picture.

So that's a limited edition car or the special edition British racing green over 10.

So when we were first married, we've been married for 35 years this year.

We were trying to apply for a more congrats.

Thank you.

We were trying to apply for a mortgage and, uh, get a mortgage, right?

For our first house and we had saved up the down payment and our decision.

If we didn't get a mortgage on the house, our consolation price was we're going

to buy a 93 1992 true story, a black with red Miata.

So we had the black with red Miata.

We had put a little deposit on a friend of mine named Chris Tish was a salesperson.

So he was holding the car for us.

We ended up getting the mortgage.

We never got the Miata.

We later bought a Mariner blue 89 used Miata.

This was two years after we closed on the house and we drove that Miata from

Columbus, Ohio to Seattle and back.

That was probably a 1990, not 89.

Yeah, you're right.

Yeah, I was 90.

I had a 91 Mariner blue.

What a color.

Just didn't have the great interior like these two you've talked about.

Yeah.

So those would be my choices.

Uh, this, as far as most beautiful, uh, Japanese cars, it would be those, uh,

the, obviously the Toyota 2000 GT or Mark one Mazda Miata.

All right.

She knew you're up.

So I failed at getting pictures, but I, you, everyone knows these cars and,

and these are my two favorite cars.

Unfortunately Blair already chose, you know, one that I absolutely adore, um,

and have kicked myself.

In fact, I was seriously considering getting that RX seven, uh, you know,

in the late nineties, because that shape to me of all the Japanese cars of that

era, you know, whether it was a 300 Z or the Supra or the, even the NSX, which I

liked the RX seven was the most curvaceous.

It was the most, you know, like fit looking, you know, like the Supra.

I know a lot of people love that Supra.

I can't stand that car.

I look bloated.

It looked overweight.

It didn't look athletic to me at all.

It just looked like a, you know, a fat dude running down the road, you know, and

so, you know, whereas the RX seven looks so, you know, I think, am I like, I'm

making the case room for this car.

Sorry.

I think I'm not supposed to do that.

Right.

Well, okay.

So your first choice is your first choice was the, uh, that RX seven, which

are seven.

And so the second choice and the reason I chose this, you know, and again, I

think roadsters are, are, are an important class.

I think it is really the classic sports car, right?

But the S 2000, I just feel like that car has aged so well.

It looks so good.

And there's one particular design feature on that car that I absolutely adore.

And that is the way the front fender, it goes, you know, almost horizontal over

the top of the wheel and doing what he does.

You're selling us.

Okay.

Let's go.

Sorry.

We want to get to the fourth.

I love these cars, right?

And honestly, I feel bad for keeping you away from the track.

So I'm trying to get trying to keep to our schedule.

All right.

So let's go through Blair's two choices were that iconic Dotson, which is what

it is and, and, or the Mazda RX seven, both great choices.

All right.

So she knew what would, what would you, between those two, what

do you think is the most beautiful?

Oh, there's no question.

You know, one's the derivative design of, of, uh, English cars.

And the other one is a beautiful Japanese car.

And so, you know, RX seven gets my vote all day long.

Okay.

Agreed.

All right.

So we're going to go to your choices next.

We have the RX seven versus the, uh, S 2000.

So what do you think Blair?

What should you think is prettier, the RX seven or the S 2000?

I do like an S 2000.

There was a gorgeous one at the track yesterday.

Just set up perfectly.

Um, but I would go, uh, RX seven for sure between those two.

Me too.

This is a lot more character.

This is going to become the RX seven talk.

All right.

So you guys, you guys enter 2000 GT into the chat.

Okay.

Well, so now you guys have to vote between, uh, of my two choices.

And then we're going to vote for the one that's the most beautiful of all time.

Okay.

So we have that car and then we have the mark one Miata.

All right.

So what should you guys think of my two choices as the most beautiful Japanese car?

That's easy for me.

I love any Miata's, but that 2000 GT is special.

Yeah.

That's the car.

That's the car that shape.

It's just gorgeous.

The proportions on it, it's, it's wonderful.

Okay.

So now, now we're down to, I think everyone's agree.

We're down to two cars and we all have to vote between the Toyota 2000 GT and the Mazda RX seven.

What was the derivative of that RX seven?

I'm not a Mazda guy to the extent that I know.

What was it called?

It, the code, the RD.

Yeah.

Is that what it was?

RD.

Okay.

All right.

Cool.

So between the RD RX.

The FD RX seven, I think we don't know.

Oh yeah.

You don't maybe you're right.

Sorry.

Yeah.

FD.

I thought you were saying, what was before that?

And I got another one before that.

All right.

Yep.

So the FD RX seven versus the Toyota 2000 GT, the most beautiful Japanese car of all

times Blair, what's your choice?

Yeah.

I got to go with the Toyota.

I mean, I would have chosen that, but I saw you had already stayed claim to it.

When we put this together, I've seen them in person.

They are tiny, by the way, talk about cars.

I do not fit in a Toyota 2000 GT, but those are spectacular looking little cars.

So that's my vote.

All right.

She knew you're up between the Toyota gets my vote.

It's just such a classically beautiful car as much as I love that RX seven.

I just want to see Blair fit in that Toyota.

So yes, the Toyota gets my vote.

I agree.

So that's it.

The most beautiful car of all time, according to full throttle talk.

It's definitely the Toyota 2000 GT.

All right, guys, we got through that segment.

That was pretty good.

By the way, have either of one of you have driven the R derivative?

I think that's what it was called of that RX seven with the super stiff suspension.

Remember, good.

She knew go ahead, buddy.

Yeah.

So listen, I didn't drive that one, but it was not getting good review.

So I was, I remember thinking to myself, you know, I'm going to try.

I was looking for ones that didn't have that.

So everything I test drove did not have that suspension.

So I'm in Columbus, Ohio.

My friend who worked at Chris Tish, who's working at the Mazda dealer said,

Tim, I need your help.

I just sold.

I, we need to go up to this other Mazda dealer in freaking Michigan.

And, um, he drove on the way up and then we were taking two cars back.

So one of the cars was the marks, the R one RX seven.

He goes, you know what, Tim, I'm going to do your favor.

You can drive the R one all the way back.

And this was when I was in my early twenties and my back was sore and I got

back that thing was so freaking stiff how they could make that car.

So fricking stiff as beyond me, but man, it was a sweet car.

All right.

So, and the biggest shame of these things is that rotary motor.

We can maybe talk about that another time, but like impossible to own for

the every man like myself.

Yeah.

I don't know much about them.

All right.

Let's move on to the next segment.

You guys ready?

Let's do it.

All right.

So here it is.

It's the 992 GT three, truly the greatest modern sports car, or is it really

just overhyped and overpriced?

And by the way, Blair is the one that said it was overhyped and overpriced.

No, he didn't.

I'm just trying to make him mad.

We, we take, we take the gloves off and discuss the GT three alternatives.

Each of us bring three cars from different price points to 75 to 100, 100 to 250

and 250 to 500.

And I'm, I think the two, I changed your price to your suggested price points

Blair, because you know, you can take into consideration, maybe the price of

some of these GT threes, especially RS, as they're selling in that price range

base, base choices on current main MSRP, no markups, new cars for sale today.

And hopefully Blair stuck to the rules.

All right.

Uh, she knew you get to go first.

And I know you're at the track and we forgive you for not having pictures.

So, so maybe can I make a suggestion here?

How about we go around and each share our different price points, you know,

instead of all three.

So like, she knew if you, that's good.

You mentioned your least expensive option and then we'll go around and then

that's cool.

Work our way up.

Let's do it.

So 75 to 100 to new year first.

So the rules have kind of changed.

I had to make them harder.

Otherwise you guys would cheat and you guys, I did cheat.

I did cheat.

All right.

So what is your, uh, ideal alternative for a modern currently for sale car?

That's where I stuck Blair, uh, for 75 to $100,000.

It's currently for sale that if your budget is 75 to a hundred, that would be

a viable alternative for a new GT three.

So I think, um, the V six manual.

Emira is a legitimately good car in that price category.

They're, they're stickers are a little bit higher, but I think, you know,

with a little bit of negotiation, you could have one for, you know, just around

a hundred grand.

So I feel like if you're looking for a great driving experience in that

price range, the, the Amira would be my choice.

All right.

You're up next Blair.

I have to caveat this.

Why I broke the rules is because when I think of GT three, I think of two things.

And I know you're not going to love this, Tim, but I think of manual transmission.

So if I'm talking only new cars, there's like a Lotus Amira and that's pretty much

X. I'm not a must think dark horse.

We all chose the same thing.

So here, so this is why I had to go.

I'm thinking manual and I'm really going to throw you guys off because for

my next category, because I also think track car, if I buy a GT three, I'm

buying a manual and I'm buying a car I can take to the track.

So I had to go a little bit older and use, but I did stick to the price categories.

My favorite, one of my very favorite driving cars is they made them up till 2020.

The Shelby GT 350 are my buddy and I who own one of these.

We talk all the time that this is the GT three.

If you want fizz, you want energy, excitement behind the car, like not

and you don't sacrifice a whole lot of that precise front end steering like bite.

It's aggressive feel.

It's just I'll give you the only problem.

I'll give you a hall pass on that because some of those are still unsold sitting

on Ford dealers, lots of dealers were asking too much.

Well, so I'm going to give you a little bit of levity on that one.

And we're going to call it a modern car, even though, but those are really

fantastic, amazing cars, especially with the motors.

And when you put a little bit of exhaust work on it, the noises, those

things make are just heavenly.

Well, and I got bad news for you.

My other cars are even older, but I'm sticking to my criteria.

Price, you know what?

You come up with a spreadsheet next week.

We'll see how you do.

And we'll try to potentially, we'll potentially not follow your rules either.

I'm not, I'm doing this podcast for me.

What would I buy at these price ranges over a GT three or consider?

So forget it.

The, as far as the choice following, you know, the 75 to 100 thing, I don't

think you can do better than Amira really.

How would you, in that price point, you can't, it's interesting, though,

that we didn't choose a base C8.

It was that even a consideration for you, Shenu, when you were thinking

about that, because it's in that price point.

Yeah, it is.

But, you know, I think that, uh, the Amira, you know, being a little bit

more exotic and special, that's, that's the one I'm be, you know, that's

what I'm gravitate towards in that price range.

Me too.

All right.

Um, let's move on a hundred to $250,000 alternative to a GT three.

All right.

Shenu, you get to go first 150 to $250,000.

Actually, you're going to hate me so bad to him at the end of this.

What, what do you guys should do?

Listen, fellas, you guys know what I'm turning into here.

Okay.

So there's no denying in that price range, it's got to be a zero six.

I mean, there's no, no other option naturally aspirated, you know, very

track oriented, but yet comfortable enough to drive on the road, like a GT three

can be, that's the car for me at that, you know, at that price range.

It's a, it's a zero six.

It is worth, it is worth pointing out that if you remove, um, but I remember

when the Nissan GTR came out and all the Porsche guys really have all the European

guys were hating on it because so such an exceptional car.

I remember reading on Renlist or Mavis for a chat, all this banter going back and

forth and I put up a post, the essence of it was if we just remove our, if we just

become brand agnostic and remove a sort of the, you know, you buy a brand cause

you want to kind of co-brand your, how people perceive you with the prestige of

wherever the brain, if you remove all that ego stuff and you just look at

product for product and it really does, I think shed light on how many cars are

sold just purely off hype versus off what really they are, you know, car to car.

And I, that's what we're getting at here.

So when we say a base C eight, there are people out there that are rolling their

eyes.

When we say in a mirror, there's people out there rolling their eyes.

It's just got to tell you to transmission and engine and all the rest of it.

But you know what, go drive one, have that experience and then, you know,

leave your custom design loafers at home and, and just, you know, do as best job

you can, being honest with how you feel after the drive.

And some of you, I'll guess 90% of you are going to buy a car ultimately because

of the fact that you are trying to co-brand an essence of the car.

You want to be perceived as you perceive the car is.

And that's reason most people make buying decisions for any product nowadays.

So just kind of to get that yammering out of the way.

All right.

So it's all, it's kind of always been the case for, for a lot of people, you know,

it's an extension of their own personality and how they want to be perceived.

But yeah, I mean, to your point, you know, the, the lotus in Mira, if you close

your eyes and listen to that engine, you know, defeat the third catalytic converter.

Okay.

The car sounds exotic.

It does.

There is not, I mean, you put any Carrera T you want against that or, you know,

any turbo, you know, he's modern turbo 911s or, or Caymans.

They sound like fart cans compared to the Amira, you know, so people can say

all whatever they would like about that Toyota engine and how, you know, kind of

plain Jane it is.

But the way it sounds, you know, it is crazy exciting.

And you can hear when you remove the, the cat, is it like a, is it a catalytic

converter?

In essence, it's the third one, right?

It is.

It's a third cat.

So the primary cats are in the headers.

And so there's this third cat that's been put in place for future emissions, you

know, like when the primary cats start to fail, this third cat is there to just bleed

off any potential, you know, emissions that may come in, you know, when the primary

cats start to, to get a little bit weaker and start to fail.

But you can hear the supercharger when you move that third cat out, you can hear

the supercharger through the intakes, which is pretty badass.

Yeah, yeah, you absolutely can.

But it's, it's shocking how much sound does get muffled by that third cat.

And so a simple $300 de-cat, you know, fixes that issue.

And the car sounds amazingly exotic.

So my choice between 150 and 250 is, and I know this is going to

some people rolling their eyes, and I'm going to preface this by saying, I've

got a 718 Spider RS and you are to give me the choice between just to let you

guys know that I'm not dyed in wool in one particular, you know, Corvette brand.

But I, the best choice between 150 and 250 grand following the rules Blair at

new price is definitely going to be a ZR1 or a ZR1 X, because you can get a ZR1

X and you can put decent options on it and be under 250 grand.

That said, if you told me, Tim, you can have a ZR1, you can have your 17 Spider

RS, I would choose a 718 Spider RS all day long, just because that's more

of an alignment with the driving experience I like to have.

But let's move on to Blair.

Let's see what he chose.

Hey, you guys got the new stuff covered, which is great.

I'm talking to the guy who doesn't want the new crap.

What, when I, when I think of GT3, I've said it again, it's manual, but it's a

track car.

I kind of hate on GT3 Tourings.

They're beautiful.

I get it.

I like them.

But that's a car that belongs on a freaking racetrack, in my opinion.

So put a wing on the back of it, use it for its intended purpose.

And if you like YouTube videos like we all do, car videos, go watch Throttle House.

Those guys do it better than anybody.

Their video about this exact car that lapped their track, literally the exact

time of a 992 GT3 with a PDK and this comes in manual.

And that's the 2017 Dodge Viper ACR Extreme.

That is one of the most interesting YouTube videos you can watch.

And I just came off the track yesterday.

I'm thinking about for 200 ish, two to 250 grand.

If I want to use my GT3 as a track car, I have to consider a Viper ACR Extreme.

I had such an incredible car.

I had one.

And you hated it.

I know I didn't.

I, well, my wife hated it big time.

Oh, I bet she hated it.

Okay.

And you had, you had an ACR from, from that generation.

I had that very car in white with the stripes.

Sweet.

Yeah.

Okay.

So that's an amazing car.

Look at that rear wing.

It's a biplane rear wing.

Look at that thing.

It's just, that's the real deal from the factory.

What an impressive, impressive car.

Have you ever driven that?

I haven't, I haven't.

I've seen many of them.

I've never had the, the, the pleasure of driving one, but I guarantee it just

seems like just the most awesome, brutal experience.

Tell us, Tim.

So I did take it on the track.

I had it at Kota and I drove it mostly when we lived in Texas around the

Texas roads, which aren't that great, except the, you know, but most of the

roads in Texas are okay.

So at the same time, I had a Lamborghini Aventador.

I had a 2011 GT3 RS.

So I had all these different comparisons.

We also had, I also had a Camaro Z28.

Which was awesome.

2015, cool car.

That's right.

Have you guys ever driven one of those?

No.

Okay.

And I had this, I had that one modified and dynoed at 630 horsepower.

So I had all these weird, it was in Texas, so you got to have some American cars.

Right.

So I will say that the ACR was exceptional in a few areas versus all those other cars.

And where it wasn't exceptional, okay, it was exceptional.

And the carbon fiber was really amazing.

The paint and fit and finish actually shockingly was better than the Porsche.

Not as good as the Lamborghini.

So those basic things aside, as far as how it handled on the corners, it wasn't that great.

As far as how it accelerated, the speed in which the engine revved, I don't know

how else to say it, was, it felt lethargic.

It did not, it did not build power that quickly and you could feel it.

It also was, if I remember correctly, it had a tire problem.

It was some kind of, it would go through front tires like a son of a bitch.

And that was on the insides too.

And there was virtual, virtually nothing you could do to change the settings of it.

So it had some engineering limitations that were sort of, you know, built into

the car because they had a compromise.

I would assume just for the sake that many people were going to use it for a road car.

The side exhaust were awesome.

How it sounded was awesome.

You know, how you felt when you were driving it was crazy because it was so, you

get people that absolutely thought you were just nuts when you drove something

like that. Exactly.

Like the, like the same effect I'm sure that you'll have driving a, you know,

what a C seven ZO seat, what option is packaged with all the wings on the C

eight? What does that call it again?

I don't remember.

Z07.

Yeah.

The ZOTK pack.

Right.

But I'll suggest to you, Blair, after having the Lotus, you'll definitely like

the overall experience, but that Viper will feel enormous compared to the Lotus.

They're intimidating too.

I've sat in a bunch of them.

I've driven in it like a first gen that they are an intimidating car.

But go watch that throttle house video if you haven't yet.

I mean, they are like full on sweating when they're done with that.

It was, if you want fizz, if you want holy crap, I've owned a lot of incredible

cars and I just need something to still make that fire.

It's a manual transmission, which is so as far as that goes, I 100% see where

you're coming from that car only, I think I had 650 horsepower out of the gates.

Yeah, I think, I think you're right.

But with, yeah, I mean, there you go.

All right, let's go to the next segment.

250 to 500.

All right, Blair, you get to go first on this one because I'm waiting for you to

show up your 1957 Chevy.

250 to 500 best alternative to a GT three and your, your choice was.

So Tim and I were talking about this.

There are so many incredible cars you have to consider too many at 400

hundred grand, which is what some of these GT three tourings are going for.

I did go older, but not in 1957.

I went with the all, all American garage.

You can get these in red for just over $400,000, which is a 2005 Ford GT.

How does somebody who wants a manual, which again is a prerequisite for me

buying a GT three that are not, most of these guys don't drive the crap out of

their GT threes like they should.

How does somebody not say, well, I could buy a 992 touring and paint a sample,

you know, whatever.

Oak green metallic.

How did they not consider a first gen four GT?

And if you really want to track it twice a year, you could do that.

And it would be a hell of a car.

I think these are unbelievable.

I am so sad.

I will never be able to afford one of these because most.

Well, I don't say that, never say that, bro.

Never say that.

That's not true.

Anyway, but I spent a weekend hammering at 06 for GT.

Really?

Yeah.

I mean, driving hard.

Okay.

With my fraternity brothers is that car was owned by one of my brothers,

Raj, who has a new one as well.

At the time he was president of Ford North America.

And so he drives his cars.

He's an excellent, excellent driver.

And, you know, that car, it's, it's fun.

Okay.

But it's a GT, man.

It is very much a GT.

You feel its size.

You know, the handling is actually good, but it's not quite as sharp

as as the current GT threes are.

I could see that for sure.

The good news is you're holding yourself back.

You seem to be doing some stammering.

We usually don't.

So what do you really think?

What are you not saying about this driving experience?

You think the thing is crap?

Should I just say I got no, no, no.

No, no, I enjoyed it.

I had so much fun in that car, but for what it is.

Okay.

It's a GT.

I don't feel it as just really like as sporty or as responsive as I tend to prefer.

You guys, I mean, clearly, Blair, you now can see what on the spectrum where I

typically sit when it comes to my views on sports cars and what I want,

something more nimble, something, you know, hyper responsive, you know,

and so it's bigger, more lethargic, responding cars.

I like them, but yeah, you know, they're not there.

It was my favorite.

He said bigger and lethargic.

All right.

That was, he was, we finally got him to say what he really thought.

But you know what, Blair, you do bring up an interesting point

with regards to the GT three touring.

I had it.

I had a 992 GT three touring and a 991 GT three touring.

And I agree with what you said.

The touring is just what's the point?

They're, they're not, it's, it's not a touring car, you know?

So yeah, I mean, that's the reason I took, go ahead.

I don't know if I can agree with you guys on that argument because most

people don't go to the track.

So trust me, a GT three touring, especially in 992 is loud as hell on the

inside because there's really lacking insulation and there's no back seats.

Again, lacking insulation.

You're not going to want to go touring in that car.

We tried, we tried to go touring in our touring.

And it was punishing.

It just wasn't.

That's always been my critique is if you're going to make it a touring,

don't just pull the wing off and give us the same damn car.

But the 992.2, you can option with back seats in the touring, which I think,

okay, make it a little more touring focused and, and, and I can get on

board a little more easily.

Um, but to me, GT threes are track cars.

And, and I've already said, I think it's the best modern sports car

because I love manual and I would only buy one if I was ready to go beat

the crap out of it on track.

Otherwise you will never find me in a G owning a GT three.

That's just my own personal feeling.

So yeah, that's, that's give me, give me a winged car and a manual.

And I'm not convincing myself by my own choices other than a Shelby for

like one fifth of the cost, the GT 350 Rs.

Make some sense.

You got to admit, it's pretty awesome how we can just bounce between

European cars, Japanese cars and American cars.

And we don't give a shit.

We just like the driving experience.

That's awesome.

Who do you guys know that exactly?

Who do you know this like that?

Everyone's just, they're so dug in.

Oh, it's got to be a Porsche.

Why?

Okay.

Anyway, all right.

So especially when you, when you're in the clubs, right?

The particular clubs where people are drinking the Kool-Aid and they get

really, really staunch in their views about why they love their mark the best.

And, you know, yeah, it gets religious.

I'm going to ask you an analytical question.

Okay.

And I want you to be as truthful as you know, this is for you because

you've got a big brain.

You're a freaking engineer.

You've got all this background.

And I want you to be really, really transparent with how you answer

this question as much as you can.

Okay.

So if you were to take, well, because he doesn't want to offend anybody,

that's his go to, if you were to take, I don't know about that.

That's not true, but he's a really, really nice guy.

But if you were to, no, no, no, no, I'm not.

Speaking of himself in the third person, all right.

So if you were to dissect, take apart a GT3 and you were to lay all the parts out

and you were to do the same thing for, I don't know, choose the competing car,

the car behind you, let's say a Z06.

Okay.

And you were to lay all the parts out.

Are you telling me, and I don't know the answer could be us, are you telling me

that the GT3 is that better engineered than a, you know, a Corvette, a mass

produced Corvette?

Is it really that much better when you really look at the, the sum of the parts?

Well, I would never have said that it's, it's engineered better.

Um, in fact, I would say, you know, they, they're engineering a fundamentally

flawed architecture to perform at an extremely high level.

So the argument could be, well, yeah, I mean, I guess in that regards,

they're overcoming physics, you know, which requires better engineering, right?

But that aside, because I agree with you.

You go ahead.

Yeah, look, a mid-engine car is better.

I've, I've said this on this podcast and many others, you know, um, that

mid-engine cars are a better architecture.

I'm sorry for pressing on this, but I'm really genuinely curious.

I'm talking about the actual bits and bobs that go into making the car, the actual

materials, the, I've seen, we've been to Pagani, we've been to Ferrari, we've

been to Porsche, we've been to BMW.

I love going to manufacturing facilities and seeing these things made.

It's just, it's incredible.

And they're all made by robots.

They're all basically using a parts suppliers, parts to put them together.

A lot of them are being, you know, Pagani still by hand, but still they buy a lot

of stuff.

Okay.

So when, when you see what's behind the curtain, you realize how many of these

cars are just essentially using similar, you know, or not the same manufacturers

providing the transmissions and all the rest of it.

So when you say one car is so much better than another, I wonder how much of that

really does come down to brand preference versus actually the Corvette is inferior

to the Porsche because the Porsche has bolted together that much better.

The, you know, the pain is that much better.

But that, I just don't know if I'm, is that right?

No, I think so here's, you know, we can get it out like crazy, but you know, our

manufacturers have these very specifications for their components.

Okay.

And those specifications can be dimensional specifications, right?

So, you know, they can also be the material specification in its durability and its

performance categories.

Okay.

And so what I can tell you, all these car manufacturers have these different levels.

Some are much higher than others.

Okay.

The choices that the manufacturer will make on how a component is produced and what

materials they use is often based on the volume.

Okay.

And that's why when you look at a C8 Corvette and you see all the things that are

cast or manufactured in such a sophisticated way, because they have the

volume to support the tooling that is required to produce those components, right?

And so, you know, coming back to your question, you know, I can't say that I've

torn apart both those cars, but I would say that they're both being done now at a

very, very high level.

They're obviously producing a lot more Corvettes than they are, I believe, nine

elevens.

And so, you know, the Corvette engineering and the things that they've done there to

address what they're trying to achieve with that car, it's pretty impressive.

And I would say on par with Porsche are doing, you know, Porsche have got the advantage

of having blivered a driver's car for a much, much longer period of time, decades,

right?

Whereas Corvettes, honestly, I've never enjoyed the driving experience of a Corvette

until I truly drove a C8.

And then all of a sudden, the dynamics of the car started to resonate with me.

But up to that point, I was, I was blasé when it came to driving Corvettes.

But driving a nine eleven, wow, that felt different.

So I feel, you know, that that is the real big difference.

You can, you can specify all sorts of components.

You can engineer all sorts of dimensions.

But the ride and handling is still dictated by how they tune the car.

And so that's where I feel Corvette are finally closing the gap with Porsche

and spending more time on the feel side of the car and not just the the actual

components they're specking in.

You've seen the Corvettes and the Porsches where they basically slice them in half

and you can see how everything's kind of bolted together.

And like I said, I've been in manufacturing facilities.

Yeah.

When you, when you take those cars apart and you look at them in their parts,

they're the same.

I mean, as far as the materials that they're using, I don't know.

I just think this is an interesting conversation.

I don't know how to maybe frame it for another podcast.

All right.

So here's my answer to 50 to 500.

In my opinion, the G are the 296 GTS, what we have, which we happen to have.

Right.

There it is.

Right.

So that car versus, um, and I, again, I had that car and the Porsche simultaneously.

And I can tell you for sure the GTS was superior in every measurable way.

Now, some people are making a lot of the hybrid system.

And, and she knew you sent us an article before about the extended warranty.

The extended warranty.

If you care to get that, which I'm going to get, they'll extend for

extends the bumper to bumper warranty.

I think it's $8,500 for two years or something like that.

So you can sort of mitigate the fear of the hybrid system and that thing.

I don't know of anybody that's had the hybrid system fail.

I think a lot of people are panicked about that.

And they've also forgotten the fact that the, with the Holy Trinity from not

that long ago, they had hybrid systems too.

And people never even mentioned, I don't want the new, you know,

nine 18, cause it's a hybrid.

No one, I guess, you know, it did.

Time has proven that people don't care.

So in any event, if I were to say, you know, kind of breaking the rules

like Blair did and a 2000 or a 996, I'm sorry, a 296 GTB at what they're selling

for currently is arguably in the 250 to $500,000 price range, the best value

out there bar none, in my opinion.

And I bet you those cars have already hit bottom.

We're going to start increasing in value.

And that's the typical, you know, that's what happens to these

bed engine Ferraris.

So I think we have hit all the nails on the head.

You guys have any comments, questions, thoughts, concerns?

Well, I like what you guys suggested as alternatives.

I think I'd be right in line with you guys.

If I wasn't still thinking manual only, but half the GT threes are sold in PDK.

So if you're going to buy a PDK GT three, which I have driven and I actually did

love and I've driven a spider RS, I want to fly to Puerto Rico to drive

your 296 so I can speak, speak to that.

But and the ZR one, there's a lot of compelling stuff.

If you're okay to forego the manual and eventually I may just have to get there.

Or we can all just be smart and call she knew and tell them to sell us a freaking

load of salise that is like wild.

Yeah, man.

Lightness is the new luxury.

I really do believe that.

So listen, that is full throttle talk for this week.

You guys have any ideas for topics next week?

Cause Blair's the one that got us on this GT three rant.

Well, okay.

You know what?

I'll end it at this.

I'll end it this, given all the options that all of this discussed.

All right.

If you guys were in the market right now to spend that 250 to $300,000 price point,

would you still get the GT three over the different things we talked about?

Or have you convinced yourselves that you at least, you know, maybe not?

I think I'd want to go drive some of the other stuff.

You want to talk about that next time?

But you want to talk about it right now?

But, but, but I would buy a manual GT three.

I hate saying it, but this is why it frustrates me to no end that GM will not put

a manual in the C8 because I value what she knew just said hugely.

Keep in mind he's, he's bagging on the four GT.

I'm just kidding.

You didn't bag on it.

But he's talking about lightweight precision.

I love the car.

Listen, but he's, he is the king of, he said lethargic.

Remember GT owners.

She knew said lethargic, lightweight precision.

That's what I'll, that's how we quoted for forever.

That's going to be the hook on the video.

She knew saying that for GT three is, is, is lethargic.

Yeah, but, but, but here's the guy who is the king of lightweight precise sports cars.

Who is gravitated towards the C8?

It's, it's one of my drive homeworks I have to do is go get behind the

wheel of any C8, which I haven't done.

I've driven almost all the previous Corvettes and I like them actually, but

like it says something that Shenu is like really onto the C8 idea.

And it's the first Corvette that has ever really appealed to him.

So put a manual in that car.

And if it's good enough for Shenu on the dynamic standpoint, it would be for me.

I just really love driving manual sports cars.

So that's why I'm so disappointed.

Well, you're loving, you're loving yourself some Shenu on this podcast.

All right.

You, you got to come drive my car.

You drive to Salt Lake and I'll let you drive that car.

Your mind will be blown as well.

It's like, I, I, so, so Blair, what you need to drive next, what Blair needs

to drive next is, is my dragon with the wings.

Okay.

You know, it handles like that Elise with, you know, double the power.

And so that would be a car.

I think that'll blow your mind because it's pretty exceptional.

All right.

So let's round the bend.

And if you guys, uh, listen, thank you for all the support for 4th

Roll Talk, we certainly appreciate the feedback.

And I have to say we're attracting an audience that's, yeah, you guys like

Porsches and the rest, but as do all of us, but we're also open to anything

that's going to give us that transcendental almost feeling of amazing driving experience.

So hopefully you're appreciating what we're appreciating.

If you have any suggestions for future podcast topics, you can message us directly.

Make sure you subscribe to the newsletter at fullthreadletalk.com.

Sorry for going long today, guys.

I know, uh, you have to get back to the track.

And the first six, uh, report we have back, uh, from you next week, it's

going to be about the ZO six, Mr.

Absolutely.

All right.

You guys have a great week.

See ya.

Take care, guys.

First Track Day Lessons, Z06 Incident & Why Lightweight Cars Win

About this episode

Lotus Elise

traction control

Chevrolet C8

carbon fiber wheels

Porsche 992

lightheaded

dehydrate

Stand 21

ride frequency

Chevrolet Camaro

downforce

power to weight ratio

wings

iRacing

track day

Ferrari Luce

keeping your eyes on the road

Hyundai Ioniq

sticker

torque

keep the revs up

sim racing

Amelia Island

analog versus digital

listening to vinyl

dropping the needle into the groove

British racing green

roadsters

manual transmission

track oriented

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