Full Throttle Christmas: One Car from Santa, GT3 Dreams & 2026 Resolutions

But I did, because the i.e. sound, it was like his name was like Carl, and I would just start calling him. Clearly. But it's official. You want everyone calling you Kramer. Am I correct? Sure. I don't care. Like J Ryan would call me Paul Kennell. I mean, because he just got Paul Kramer, Paul Kennell, and pretty soon it's hilarious. You know, my mom is mom Kennell, Jennifer's Jennifer Kennell, my daughter's Lauren Kennell. I mean, it's just we're going to change her name to Kennell.

Do people really think your last name is Kennell? No, but they just, they mistaked it and they kind of blurred it together. Yeah, they could. I'm going to change it legally as well. I'm the last of the Kramer, so who needs it? Well, occasionally I haven't figured it out yet. We are indeed doing another episode of full throttle talk for 2025. We had planned on having a longer break between obviously our last show last week and 2026, but so many of you had said that you wanted us to do another show.

And frankly, we missed doing that show for you and this show for you in the extraordinary amount of automotive news that came out in just the last two weeks, Meredith and other podcasts. So we are doing and this will officially be unless Paul can talk to me and doing another one. This will officially be the last official full throttle talk of 2025. And I want to start out by waste a lot of time. But I want to start out by saying thank you to all of you that have helped to make this podcast so successful. We're not going to yammer on about all that. But here's the bottom line. We have found

our community and a lot of you guys feel like you found your own your community as well. We want to continue to do that. We don't have aspirations to be, you know, spikes car radio or beat the number one. This and the number one that doesn't really matter. We don't care. I mean, you know, maybe we'll come out with some swag, but I get news for you. We don't make any money on it. We're just doing it so that we have an outlet to talk about what we're passionate about. And I truly appreciate the fact that you all feel the same way. Welcome to full throttle talk. The podcasts were a force power meets

the conversation from supercars to classic legends high-reving tech to motorsport mayhem. We covered all straight from the driver's seat, whether you're a gear head eraser or just love the thrill of the open road. You're in the right place. Buckle up, hit the gas and let's go for all throttle into today's episode.

All right, well, first thing because I know my parents are probably listening, but just a quick shout out this Friday is my parents 60th wedding anniversary. Oh, man, that's awesome. Happy anniversary to my parents. Very nice. Crazy that my mom who's not a car person listens to our podcast, which means I have to hear her son's golden tones. Oh, God, no, no, she, she likes to hear what you guys just say. Actually, she knows what I'm I'm going to say. She likes us picking on you is what you're saying. Exactly. She does enjoy that.

So as off air, Tim, you mentioned what the heck you've got American cars in the background, which I had to remind them, these are they are tuckers. They made, I don't know, 52 of them. If you haven't seen the movie Tucker with Jeff Bridges, I think amazing movie. And but they're very German like their flat six engines air cooled in the back of the car. But anyway, this is a museum on on Saturday.

We got to go visit it. They are the very private owners, one of the most spectacular museums I've seen. It's in Southern California.

There is probably four buildings combined in different areas. I'm talking to 300,000 square feet. And I'm just going to rifle through some pictures so you can see it. So if you guys are just listening to us, we're seeing some old obviously a lot of old vintage German stuff.

Seeing some looks like 19 or a mid 1950s Volkswagen vans to two buses a 356. If you see behind the 356, those are vintage movie projectors completely restored. And on the wall, those paintings, they're not paintings. They're all roadside advertisements from Europe and other countries in the US when they used to just take these printed pages and put them on the walls.

And they've been preserved. Some of these cars are unrestored original but look at the memorabilia in the background. I gosh, yeah. And then you know, it's amazing. But they all that's their new turbo 50 in signal yellow.

This looks like Leno's warehouse. If Leno was more focused on, you know, German cars. Yes, that's a launch a Stratos in the foreground with the early early GT 350. That's a 69 S Targa, I think. And then you see the lowest mileage, most perfect. I think R32 with a launch a Delta.

Let's see. Yeah, that's quite a diverse collection. I got to say it in here's the thing is everything there is perfect. I mean, and the signage is insane. And I've talked to the owner and he said, they have this amazing collection. It's not open to the public. They graciously will open up to a few friends every few years.

They're very private. They're not. It's not about look what I have. This is the perfect then diagram of of money, passion and time. Like this is their complete focus. And when you see how diverse. So just to give you an idea. Inside these big showroom things. I think there's three complete working gas stations from different eras.

Wow, a 20s, a 30s, but then you go into it. I mean, obviously there's not fuel there, but there's the pumps. There's a little dinging you drive over. Then you go into the little where the booth is where you pay your money. And you open the cash register. I opened it was I said, what's this? You know, this is a 1920s gas station that would have been from the Midwest. You open the gas register till. And there's real money in there from the 20s.

And they have a complete general store, huge general store with everything from things to hold your socks up, you know, those stir up things from the 20s to candy to razor blades. I mean, are you allowed to say what industry or business these folks were in? No, I'll tell you one thing. It is, you know how you find out these people with extreme wealth. Do something completely mundane rubber band straws toilet seats.

Just something you're like, oh, well, that makes sense. The world needs that. That's I just hit the nail on the neck. Yeah. And in the funny thing is they're they're just so humble.

And you can just when you see this collection, you can just see its obsession and perfection. I mean, they're, I wish I took a picture. There's a sign in there that is a Lincoln sign that's that. So if you see these, let me see if I could find a wall.

All right, some of these walls are 100 feet long. There's a Lincoln sign and a mercury sign that went on top of like a skyscraper that they were able to pull down. And by the way, so, so that right there with the Volkswagen bus is parked next to, I think that's another gas station that opens up the other side. They have a, they have a tank in there. They have a complete fire engine, like several fire engines. As you saw, I think in one of them, there's an airplane. See it in the back.

Yeah, that what is that airplane? Yeah, you know, it's a, I want to say a World War two military plane. Yeah, looks like some kind of trainer of some kind like a, I guess you're right or something. Yeah, I think Paul Nell. It says you asked something on the side. So it's a yeah. I mean, here's the first thing is I've been, I think this was my third time to the museum.

The first time I went by myself, my dad didn't want to go, oh, dad, you, after that, I'm like, dad, you missed out because they don't do this very often. So last year, they opened it around the same time and my daughter was in town. And my daughter is not a car person.

And she absolutely loved it because when you look at the artwork, I mean, I think the framing of the artwork is, is millions of dollars. And

And then I see them continuing to accrue. And I'm like, where are they going to put this? And I was, I was asking one of them, like, where do you?

Like, how do you decide to get something? And by the way, they, the one of the people that helps him is probably in his 20s, early 30s.

He has so much knowledge on pre-war cars for that age. I mean, they, you know, dozenbergs, they have several dozenbergs. If they go to Hershey's, I want to point, I want to point something out, Paul.

If you go back to your original picture, a picture of the Tucker, can you pull those back up?

Because I think it's fascinating that you find it so interesting that the parallels between the Tucker and say, for example, Porsche.

And that was what drew you to having that as your feature car when we were started here. And yet, the Corvette, which is something that you malign, viciously, it might I add, also has a similar background with Porsche.

But because the guy that started Corvette, also used to race Porsche 550s in the, in the 50s. And he, and he came from where you're up, where he was, separation here.

Yeah, exactly.

The car has nothing to do with it. Corvette guy, Kramer, you're this close. You can, Paul, there's probably not even a Corvette. Isn't that thing? Is there?

No, no, they do.

No, I actually found pictures of it and I made sure I didn't post those.

But in, by the way, so if you do want to see more, and I am surprised, there is a public Instagram account.

It's called motor car underscore collector.

And you'll see, that's where I put it in the newsletter.

But, but it's, it's just wild to see the passion for it and how much they drive them. And to me, this is kind of what.

So you have to choose one. You have to choose one of the cars you saw.

A Tucker, the Tucker, yeah, and I've been bugging him and they, they've had, you think about it, they made 50 of it.

And I think at one point, they had three or four Tuckers.

And this blue one, Walt, uh, Walt's blue. If you watch the movie, it's, they talk about Walt's blue.

When I had my citron SM and he was really curious about it because they didn't have an SM.

I said, I'll tell you what, I'll let you drive my SM and I just want to ride in the Tucker.

And I have yet to get a ride in the Tucker, but I would love to get a ride in the Tucker.

I just, I love the movie. I think everything about the cars, interesting.

It's one of the few American cars.

If I had all the money in the world, would be in the top 10.

What do you think of what's, what's one worth? Yeah.

I would, well, my guess is, I think they've sold for seven figures, high sixes.

They don't come up for sale very often. It's sort of like low supply, low demand.

Well, we're going to be, so we're going to be talking about, I mean, obviously we have our normal format.

We're going to be talking about what did you do in cars this week?

Automotive news, but we did have a topic this week that I think we're going to be focusing in on a

bringing trailer because we've been, we have a lot of comments from folks that were sort of on

both. There wasn't, I was honestly surprised how divisive the bringing trailer conversation was

based on the comments we had. So we're going to hopefully drill down on that.

So David, what did you do in cars this week?

Well, it's been a, it's been a fun week and you can see behind me that is the Grinch

with some terrific jalapeno vodka.

So I kind of blew my own jalapeno vodka, right?

So somebody gave me this little chalice or whatever that is, a decanter.

And I basically fill it full of vodka, set up some fresh jalapenos, stuff them down in the

hole and let that ferment for a good week and it is super tasty.

And it's really good.

So we, the, the point of showing that is we had Targobar, which is our monthly gathering,

Portia gathering that we have here at the shop.

And so it's basically an excuse for a bunch of Portia guys to get together and drink and

shoot the shit and tell stories and talk about cars and so on and so on.

And you know, Sunday works provides all the libations.

And so of course you must show up to get your jalapeno vodka hit.

So that was, it was one of the events from the day.

And then we've also, we also did a good bit of work on hang on one second, prepping this

car, which we've talked about briefly.

This car I have up for sale.

So this car's got to get, we had to get it prepped and shot.

Well, so let's talk about that.

That's a 79 Talbot yellow.

And I mean, just in the taxi, SC, it's a US car.

Yeah, it's the other view of it.

What obviously this is, and the reason, one of the reasons I wanted to bring this car into the

conversation, because I think it opens up a very interesting conversation about mileage and

why people are in get fixated on mileage and get fixated on mileage incorrectly.

Like this particular chassis has 171,000 miles on the chassis.

And that's kind of tip, it wouldn't you think, for a 50 year old car.

I mean, I would think that if anybody's driving it, and it's not keeping it in the garage,

that it's going to have miles, it's going to accumulate miles over 50 years.

The key on any one of these cars that you're buying, though, is what's the condition of the car?

What's the history of the car in terms of what documents can somebody provide about

motor rebuilds, or service work, or transmission, or paint, or any of those things?

Because I will tell you this, anybody buying a, what they think to be a low mileage car,

especially on the 911 is going to be surprised that every one of those odometers,

every single one I can almost guarantee it is bad, has been, has failed at some point in

its life, and it's really just a function of who's reported it, who's fixed it,

what documents do you have to support it?

Now, I'm being extreme because I'm sure there's some that are probably okay,

but I fix a lot of these because they go bad, right?

And this little gear right here, you can see it that year will literally just turn to dust.

When new miles matter, David, on a car, when new miles, like how does the car have to be for

miles, just not to matter, it's just all about condition, because there is a breaking point,

where it doesn't matter anymore.

I think first of all, it's the problem with when Porsches went from a five-digit to a six-digit

odometer, which was 76, so all of a sudden, when you have a long hood,

we all assume they rolled over, and unless you had documentation to prove otherwise,

and even that, it would have to be an unrestored original car to warrant it.

If you had a documented 60,000-mile car, but it had been restored, no one really cared,

for some reason, the 60-digit odometer changed all that, which to me is sort of foolish,

so I would say over 100,000 miles, it now just depends on condition.

The miles become somewhat irrelevant.

Paul, I've found, I've seen cars that I know you have, too.

Let's say you get a 65,000-mile, you know, 32.

You know, do you really trust that that's 60,000 miles or 65,000 miles without documents?

It depends on condition.

So if you get a 65,000-mile car that's original paint, and you start to see things like,

I mean, some of the telltale signs are the wears on the pedal.

You don't want to see them too fresh, but you want to see a little bit of wear.

Then you look at where the heel goes with the carpet, and then you start looking at

anything that headline in this touch, headline, or you turn the little lights on,

and they start seeing kind of wear-out spots.

But the problem with those odometers, and I love when people, I mean, the 993 guys,

God, love them, they will just die on this hill about the freaking odometer.

If you watch, bring a trailer listings, and they, you know, on the back, does the gear.

The problem is those gears are vinyl because they actually, if they were metal,

where they didn't wear out, every time a mile would click by, you'd hear a click.

I mean, imagine how annoying that would get for 100,000 miles, so.

Well, there's other ways, too, right? I mean, you've put the car up.

The car's originally just coated with Cosmoline,

unless some is actually taking the time to remove the Cosmoline.

If you see, like, the front left doesn't have any Cosmoline on it,

you got to start wondering whether there were some structural damage to the car.

But anybody that's familiar with these cars, they always, when you're going through a car,

the first, a 911, it's the first thing you just open up the hood,

pull back all the raggedy-ass car, but it's probably there.

And then you look down and where the front, you know, the bumper supports are.

And then you looked for consistency from left side to right side.

And it's because you can't, you can't, unless the whole front end's been redone.

And it was done by somebody who really knew what they were doing.

Nobody ever gives a shit that much, especially when these cars weren't worth anything,

to do a really good job patching it back together.

I mean, there's other ways, too, but that's the main one.

But I've got, I've, look, I bought and, um,

crap cars that I thought were nice cars before.

I mean, you guys got stuck with them, too, where, you know,

there was some gremlins hiding in places you never would have expected.

I, Paul knows car I'm talking about.

I had actually a beautiful 67S that I bought

that when I went to have the bodywork redone,

I found out that someone had patched the rust holes with pennies, you know?

And I found out that the firewall was, um, riveted on

versus someone had having taken the time to actually welded on.

So shit like that happens, just the nature of it, I guess.

356s are the worst culprit.

I mean, they'll just, yeah, you have, you have body damage in the front.

They'll just cut off a whole front end and put on a different,

another, another car, which by the way, has a different bid number.

It's also important to note that these cars as they,

at the newer generations, they did get noticeably stiffer.

You know, the chassis supports and whatnot made the cars stiffer.

But when a car's 49 years old or 30 years old,

and it's got 100 or 200,000 miles on it,

I wonder how much of that torsion rigidity still

meant, you know, remains after all those miles.

So that's just, you know, you can have to get in the chassis, you mean to him?

Yeah, I mean, if you basically, when you're redoing a body,

I know that there's ways you can put RSR supports

into basically tighten the chassis back up and, you know, all the rest of it.

But there's going to be some natural fatigue and flex

that's going to have worked itself into the chassis after all that time.

I'd have to think, am I wrong?

We need a metallurgist.

I mean, I've a wonder that too.

At what point on like a, let's say you have an SC, you know,

at 200,000 miles, is there noticeable chassis degradation,

where like you said, Tim, there's flex in it that's...

I haven't seen it.

Certainly, I've definitely seen it in a targa for sure.

I mean, a targa with lots of miles on it can certainly,

it'll flex just sit, you know, just in general.

You put it up on a lift and now you can't get the doors open on the car.

So those cars definitely flex.

Well, I've got a C's, three twos with tons of miles.

I mean, I've got friends with cars with almost got 300,000 miles on cars.

And they're just still just as fun to drive as, as a freshie.

So the only reason I just point this out is I just think people are,

in some cases, they get hung up on the mileage and they pay premiums

because the car's theoretically has lower miles.

And I just think that people need to pay paying attention

because I see so many of these cars with bad odometer gears.

Yeah, either it's unreported and it's set for a long time.

It's not there, nobody's trying to be deceived, you know,

deceive anyone, but it's really more of a function of, they'll, you know,

roll the car, they'll let the car...

I'm on that way for five years.

I might take a different stance on it.

We can bring this in in our topic, Dizzora,

when we're talking about bringing a trailer.

Because I think a lot of the disclosure that happens from people

being able to carefully track the histories of cars now,

you know, using bin numbers and whatnot with bringing a trailer

has rooted out some of the people that may have been operating on the edges

and hiding things like, you know, bad odometers.

The miles are underreported and things like that.

And a lot of those people now don't have the ability to,

I don't know what the word would be, but maybe take advantage

of a not-so-careful buyer, you know.

Paul, honestly, in Southern California,

when we were living part-time there,

there were so many 9-11 scammers.

It was unfricking real and I don't want to name names,

but they were everywhere.

And you wouldn't have to even...

You could go to one event and you could start tripping over them.

Guys that were doing fake RSSs and guys that were doing...

This all kinds of shady shit.

I mean, all the time.

I don't know how...

You know, and you're right.

And I think a lot of it has been rooted out.

And the one that, you know, so, so public and is CPR,

I mean, they are finally getting arrested.

People are getting arrested.

And the irony is, we've watched it going for so long.

But they were doing...

What they were doing was essentially mismanaging money.

It's almost like a financial Porsche Restoration Ponzi scheme.

That was part of it.

Where they actually...

Okay, what do I not know?

The other part was you bring your car in

to get the interior done.

And next, you know, they've sold your car.

And then you don't...

And then you find out, well, no, I don't want it.

I want it back.

And then you get the car back and they charge you for the interior,

but they never did the interior.

I'm talking about more, I think...

Okay, even more aggressive.

You bring your original car in there for restoration

and they're no dummies.

They take the original parts.

Like, picture a 67S.

You know how hard it is to find those parts.

Yes.

And they're no dummy.

Someone comes in there,

hey, I found this cool 67S survivor.

I want you to restore it.

And they go in there and they go by all the repro parts

and they take the side deco

and all the stuff we know is unobtainium.

Were they really doing that?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, I didn't know.

Big time.

Super no idea.

And I remember when Portia partnered with them

when the queer tea came out.

Remember, they did...

I don't know why Portia partnered with them.

And I was like, sitting there like,

why did you choose these guys?

And for a short bit,

Stoddards was going...

They were buying tons of parts from Stoddards

and Stoddards was going to co-own the business.

And I remember when they came into town

for the lit show weekend

and I saw one of the owners of Stoddards

was a dealership that split off

and that parts became its own thing,

the classic parts.

And all I know is when they opened up the books,

they realized this is a business to run from.

And they were right.

And here's the thing is,

I was dealing with her dad for years

and I knew it was bad business.

And then when he passed away

in the early, you know, 2020 or 21

and the daughter and son took over,

I thought, okay, maybe this is a chance

from the clean things up.

New level of crime.

A whole new level.

When was the last time you came across a fake car

like a fake RS

or a fake ass even?

Because there were some,

you 20, 25 years ago.

Yeah, it's been a long,

I think now it's so hard to,

it is so hard to make,

made that much harder to do now

with serial numbers and so on.

I think so.

I mean, I think a way.

The Seinfeld deal with the 356 GT

was really the last one.

And that was, I think that was something

that got sold and came out of the hype,

you know, the 2013 to 16 time period.

And then it got discovered when it finally,

you know, think about it, it took like five,

six years of auction.

So let's talk about that.

Everyone, of course, everyone listening

or watching probably knows about that.

But it was a 57 or 58, 356 GS.

Was it right?

Am I right?

I think something like that.

I can't remember.

I'll look it up.

So it was a 4 km,

I think it was,

it was either a GS or a GT,

like, you know, unicorn car.

And it turned out,

wasn't the whole thing fake,

basically.

Didn't they figure that out?

And so then the guy sued Jerry.

Jerry said, whatever,

bro, just give your damn money back.

And the guy still wanted to go after him

for whatever reason.

How did that ever resolve?

CPR had a car back?

Well, no, no.

This was through European collectibles.

And it quietly got resolved.

Honestly, I was always shocked

how this got by people

that had been in this industry for a long time.

Jerry Seinfeld has, you know,

very, very well-known, you know,

shrewd buyers on his end

and people to look at cars.

European collectibles does.

I don't know.

It was a 58.

What do you think, Paul?

How did that get by him?

I've always wondered that.

How, because I know there's,

that, okay,

I think, I think,

I think, I think in the end of the day,

one thing, I would say,

the one thing I've learned from this business

and just human nature in general,

sadly when money is

involved in some cases,

the worst things of humans can come out.

And I've seen it.

Well, let's not insinuate anything

because we don't know all the players at hand,

but I get what you're saying.

I mean, obviously that makes sense.

I mean, the perfect example,

we see a state sales.

Someone dies in the family.

And then you just see a family get

torn apart over things and money.

And a lot of times,

I get the cars to sell

because they need an impartial person.

And it's sad, like,

there's one person who wants the car

for sentimental reasons.

The other person who wants the money.

And then in the end, no, it's like,

it's like King Solomon.

No one gets anything.

It's just, you know,

and that's how it ends up in the I don't get on museum.

And, yeah.

And I sit there and I,

I don't want any part of it.

I'm just trying to do what I'm required to do

to sell the car.

And I feel sort of bad.

And I see sort of this,

this human nature come out of people

that were and families split apart over money.

And you say,

I mean, you see this all the time.

And I, what I've learned is

it's one of these things about humans

that sometimes are characteristic

that comes out in some humans.

And you get enough people in the background.

And think about it,

when you were restoring your 67s,

you remember that time the market took off.

I mean, it exploded in 13,

12 and 13,

first 356s,

and then long hoods.

And when that happened,

everyone and their mother was restoring a car.

And some of them like you were trying to restore it

the best you could.

And some were trying to just get it out the door

and get it to auction.

You remember how you bailed me out on that,

by the way?

Do you remember?

Okay, I'm going to tell the story

because actually it's meaning to

and I formally say thank you.

So I was told the car was done.

And I'm not going to mention any names.

I was told the car was done.

And I wasn't an expert on what done was.

And I knew that,

you know, the 67s in particular,

the people out there that know about those cars.

I don't even know how to describe how

they're so on the spectrum in a good way.

It's just incredible.

Just in freaking credible.

For one model year, one model.

Yeah, 67s only.

Exactly.

And so I had this car that was done.

Okay, time to pay the rest of the bill.

It was like, oh, a lot of money.

And okay, the car's perfect.

And I go to Paul and I say Paul,

I am friendly or if not friends

with the guys that did the restoration at this point

after all the effing time.

And I don't want to have any conflict

and I don't want to basically be making

pissed off, you know, all the whole thing.

I don't want to, you know, piss off the community.

So I need you to help me find somebody

that I could send in

that's going to be basically my,

you know, bad guy and take everything over.

And you did.

And it wasn't you.

It was somebody else.

I won't mention his name.

Do you want me to?

Sure. Yeah, he's great.

Yeah, I'm sure.

Oh my god, that guy.

What the hell?

The shit he knew

and he found was extraordinary.

He has, have you ever met anybody

that has that level of knowledge

about anything in your entire life?

Maybe don't.

No, I met him 25 years.

I mean, he's been, he's probably

in his, I think, early 60s.

He's been doing this since he was a teenager.

I mean, how many teenagers

are concoring cars?

Then he's a race car driver.

Then he's doing driving real

911 R's in vintage races.

I mean, he lives for this stuff.

What's this whole name?

In case they want to look like that?

Dirk Layer.

Yeah, Dirk Layer.

If you go to Instagram,

I think just look up Dirk Layer.

When you go to like Lufkecult

and you see the really special cars

at Lufkecult quietly behind the stage,

most of those are his clients

that he's wrangling to get their cars there.

He gave me a list.

He gave me a list of the shit that was wrong.

And it's, to this day,

and I don't want to think about it much,

but to this day, I wonder if they knew

the shit that was wrong

and they were just hoping I was going to let it get by me

or they didn't know.

See, I agree with you,

Paul's shaking instead of if you're just listening,

that they didn't know

and Dirk was that much more of an expert.

But I have to say, to this day,

I'm quite certain that the people

that received the list

and I told them what they need to finish on the car

still resent me to this day.

I'm quite sure.

Where are they now?

Yeah, it's like rubbing their nose in the paper.

And that's the problem you see is

we think we know what restored is

because to restore a Porsche,

to a very high level close to the factory,

it's gotten so distorted

that I think, you know,

for example, Wilhoid builds really nice cars.

Those are nicer than the factory ever built.

And to the now people think,

that's what a 356 is.

I'm like, no, they never look like that.

I mean, that's just,

that was a period in the 90s.

Everyone wanted over restored

and he just continued to do that

and served the public what they wanted

and their beautiful cars.

They're not how, they're not factory correct.

They're not the way the factory did.

So I just, the one thing is,

whenever I get a really special car

and a 356, especially, I go to Dirk

and I'm like, am I crazy?

Is this, am I looking at this with those color glasses?

So I still to this day is the one person

that I will consult with

just to make sure I'm seeing everything

or I'm not missing something.

And 356 is a really one of the most tough ones.

And if I take a 356 on which you'll see very few of them,

it's gonna be a really good car

because all of those I don't trust.

They don't have to be super perfect

to love them or appreciate them.

But if you're paying for something

that's supposed to be a 10 out of 10 and exactly right

and the people that you're paying claim that it is

and then you have somebody like Dirk come in.

I mean, he's like one of the,

I never actually, I'm sure I've met him

but I don't really remember.

I picture him as being a very, you know,

introverted type guy who probably tries to not,

you know, get under anybody's skin,

at least to complete opposite.

Okay, well, I mean, he was basically he acted for me

like if I was Tony's soprano and I was calling

and somebody to do some collections

and make the counts right, you know,

that's what it was like.

It was really nice.

Yeah, he can come across as condescending.

But like I say, it's hard to be humble

when you know that much stuff.

And he knows that, I mean, I met him 20,

I met him over 20 years ago,

we had a 67 S slight gray to coupe

that was a sunroof car owned by an astronaut

and it was not a restored car.

And he came to look at it.

And this is like 2006, we were selling it for 70 grand.

I mean, it has since sold for well over a half a million.

I mean, the holy grail of 67 S's.

And I watched him just take a big steaming turt on that car.

And he didn't buy it and his client didn't buy it.

But he, the one thing was he came back and he's like,

hey, I know you're new with this,

but here's what you need to look at.

And I keep learning from him on stuff.

And the funny thing is he doesn't understand the new GT3 stuff

and even the nine, you know,

some of the newer stuff, even the 964993.

And I get to finally share what I know about or G bodies.

Like I know a lot more about G bodies than he does.

And he's really one of the few kind of broker guys

I will work with very fair.

In the end of the day, he just loves the car so much

and he wants people to stop effing with them

and just make them right and in use them

and not worry about Pebble Beach and PPF.

And his ethos is very much aligned with mine in the end.

I'm glad he helped you.

Yeah, definitely.

I was, honestly, I was afraid.

I was like, ooh, I don't know how Tim's gonna take this.

No, I was grateful.

I mean, I admire people like that.

And honestly, you know, what happened to the car?

Did you, did you not do the deal or did it?

You decide on what happened?

No, no, no, I'd restored it.

So again, I don't want to mention any names

because some of them associated with it are pretty famous.

And I don't want to, yeah, I mean,

so I ended up selling it at auction.

My client bought it at auction.

And you sold it in the store?

Yeah, let's tell that story.

I sold it in the store.

So it was, I'll tee it up since we're on this topic.

It was four numbers off.

The case was four numbers off.

Everything else was matching.

It may have been five numbers, I don't remember.

And I totally disclosed it.

I was not trying to hide anything from anybody.

I put it at auction at Monterey.

It was with case or something.

You remember who it was?

Wasn't one of the big houses.

Was it good?

Or was it good?

No, it wasn't good.

Yeah, I don't remember.

So anyway, they put it on auction.

And evidently, so they called me up and they said,

I've got an offer for you.

And the net of it was getting us out of it,

basically getting our money back.

We weren't doing it to make money.

We were doing it at the time just because we thought we'd won it.

But by the time it was done, it was the last thing I wanted.

So I was ready to get rid of it, you know?

And so Paul, the car sells at auction.

The lady that bought it, Paul.

Yeah, so clients of mine or friends, it's a couple.

They're dating, a gentleman and a woman.

They buy it together.

She's in the cars, but not like us into the numbers stuff.

I think what happens is they had someone look at the car

from who looked at it just as a mechanic would look at it.

He didn't look at it from a collector's standpoint.

And he's like, this is a fricking great car.

But when you ask someone like that,

they don't know how to put in context of value numbers matching

in this.

And as we learned him, numbers matching on a 67S

of all the numbers matching, it matters massively.

It could be a hundred to like even if it's a really weird color,

like 150 grand today.

Yeah, just not have, I tell people all the time like,

hey, to get a driver's non matching numbers S, who cares?

It really doesn't matter.

Just go get whatever.

But anyways, so they get the car together.

They have it for a few years.

Their relationship ends whatever happened.

She ends up with the car.

She doesn't want it like you.

She had different reasons like I'm just,

this car is associated with just bad memories.

Gives it to me to sell.

I don't know how she didn't understand it was not numbers matching.

And I don't know if this was in the sale process.

This was just between her and her boyfriend.

I get it and I knew Tim.

I knew the restoration.

I didn't really dig deep into it.

So I start digging deep into it

and I'm calling the players involved

and then it comes up.

It's like, oh, this is four digits off

or five digits, it's like hand grenades.

It's close enough.

It's really, really close.

And I go tell the woman, I go, hey, this isn't numbers matching.

So the price we had it at, I go, this changes everything.

And now I just kill the messenger.

She came to our shop.

So angry.

I'm like, let's talk about this car.

It was slate gray originally.

It was red interior.

I'd gotten the right, you know, made in German.

It was new original stock, you know,

houndstooth, the whole thing.

Everything was done by the best people.

Not that I could afford,

because some of them I couldn't afford at the time.

But the best people that were willing to work on it.

That's the reality of it.

Yeah.

Why would you rolled up your sleeves and did a ton of work?

I mean, people don't realize to restore one of these cars,

you don't get the privilege of just giving it to a shop

and writing a check.

Even if you can write the check,

you have to become a general contractor

and you have to go chase down parts.

And you were like, okay, this is the best guy

for this one thing.

And what you experienced him, I see over and over.

By time you're done restoring it, you're over it.

There's so much stress.

You're like, this isn't even fun.

And we start the car and God forbid it doesn't start.

You just want to burn the pile.

You're done with it.

It's just an emotional train wreck.

So we're in Monterey maybe last year of the year before,

and we were at, what, Meekam?

And the cars up there being put for sale, okay?

And it didn't sell at like 180 or 185,

which by the way, was less than what she paid for it.

So she paid more, I'll just leave it at that.

And yeah, long story short,

I like contacting him said like, I'll freaking buy it back for that.

I know what I had in it.

And I know that that car would be sweet.

Just, you know, you put some seminars in the back,

you know, you put some, you know, you'd lower it down

a little bit, but that car would be fantastic like that.

Here's a thing is what it hammered for and didn't sell.

That is exactly what I told her it would sell for.

And it was such an insult to her.

And I'm like, I'm just telling you, this is the market.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I think she did sell it because I think when I saw it,

it actually had been part of the Reggie Jackson collection.

That's what someone told me, whether it's true or not.

You know what, you know who messaged me that was TLG.

Okay.

Yeah, Marco would know, Marco would definitely know.

Yeah, he definitely, he's the one that told me about it.

All right, cool.

Anyway, trip down memory lane.

Sorry, we don't word you, David.

Oh, no, didn't bore me.

He started with an odometer gear.

So, well, yeah, we'll blame you.

But you know, just looping us into what you do, David.

Honestly, the nice thing about what your shop does

is there's not a lot of bullshit involved.

You basically drop the car off and it's souped nuts

because you're vertically integrated.

You engine, body, interior, the whole thing.

And where I didn't, I had to have had the car hauled

over different shops all over Southern California.

The wheel guy was being done up in Oregon and others.

I'm nightmare moving on.

Yep.

Let's talk.

Let's talk about what you do, Jim.

What did you do?

Honestly, I did nothing in car week.

But truthfully, even if I did, I want to move on to the automotive news

because we have a lot of fun to talk about.

I think it'll, all right.

So, actually, I'm going to go first.

I know I have this in a different order

because I think this will might be a little bit more

entertaining than yammering on more about Porsche's.

All right, I discovered this this morning.

And you guys don't know about it,

which makes me really happy.

Now, I'm showing them right now

what looks like a formula three car

with one wheel on the back, okay?

And that formula three car with one wheel

at the back does look a little strange.

But this is what I found.

Okay, now, if you're on YouTube,

just go ahead and give me two seconds

to adjust my background.

It looks like AI where you put in a formula car,

you say, hey, make a copy of it

and then you go make a copy of it, make a copy of it.

And then, pretty soon, you end up

with this sling shot looking.

It's a sling shot.

So, there it is with four wheels on it.

Now, you guys are saying,

why the hell am I showing this to you?

It's not a street car because it is.

Now, that is a cop pulling the car over.

So, here, I was really intrigued by this.

So, someone's built a formula three car for the road.

Like, that's really cool.

And there's virtually no information

available on what this guy is creating.

And his, if you guys want to check this out,

it's our, I think it's called the RYN stands for Ryan,

but RYN F3, but if you guys go to RYN,

I'll put this in the show notes,

RYN Motors.com, you can look this up yourself.

So, here's the gist of it.

And this is what I thought was very clever.

This is the reason I think you guys would appreciate it.

So, you know that you don't have to have a motorcycle license

to drive a three wheel, a tricycle, basically, or a trike, right?

Two wheels on the front, one wheel on the back.

But what I didn't know, and what RYN evidently does know,

is if you buy it that way,

and then you as the owner convert to four wheels,

it's still legal under the same rules,

and you could still have it as a three wheel or legally.

So, that means, yes.

So, what motor that has in it?

And I did think I read that it has a three cylinder in it.

So, what three cylinder?

We can pray that it's got that bad ass Toyota motor in it.

Or the GTI, the Corolla GR.

Exactly.

If we're lucky, but it most likely has something

similar to like what they put in the ATV type things,

where they sound like buzz saws.

But who knows, we're gonna see.

So, what's that, what's that, what state is that?

I'm trying to see the license plate on the sheriff.

Is that Texas?

You're so obsessed with plates, bro.

Is that Texas?

No, I'm gonna say Montana just to drive you crazy.

Oh, well, I mean, this seems on brand for Florida.

At first I thought, oh, it's Florida,

but then Florida wouldn't pull them over

because they just don't care.

But yeah, exactly.

But, well, so here's the thing that was my takeaway.

All these people that Yamron about,

I wanna race car for the street, there it is, you know, again.

So, and the big reveal,

when he's gonna start taking orders to this thing,

is next month, and on his website,

when you go to his website, I did message him,

telling him we were gonna be talking about him today.

If you go to his website,

it's just a placeholder website with a countdown clock,

no way billy to put in an order or anything like that.

But guess how much that thing is.

It's all, what I could ascertain is it's carbon fiber,

tub, and it seemingly has all the race car safety shit

built into it.

So, is this turn key done?

Like, you don't have to supply your own engine.

What I know is what I told you.

Yeah, no, turn key done.

What would you guys do under 100 grand?

Under 100 grand, 95 grand.

What do you think, David?

I was gonna say like 75 or something like that.

And you guys are both right.

It's supposedly 70 grand.

Now, so what's fascinating is if he modeled,

he could have 3D scanned a real F,

a real formula three chassis

and basically figured out how to make his own version of it.

But what I don't know how it works in the back

where you're able to swap once the car arrives

in your driveway or whatever,

the one big ass one wheel off and put the two wheels back on

technologically, that'll be kind of fascinating.

So, I mean, I wouldn't drive that in Puerto Rico,

but you know where I drive it is where you live.

I drive that North Carolina

on those crazy fun roads in two seconds.

I'm not saying I'd ever make it back, you know,

because God knows how those, you know,

hillboys and trucks react, but there you go.

We'll store it for you, Jim.

We'll store it for you when you buy it.

So, do you do a general, you do a general e-livery

and I think they'll accept you just for me.

All right, so here's my other automotive news

and I shared this with you guys.

So that little dude is coming to the United States

that is a fiat, am I saying it right?

Shit, how do I say the word tropa, topolino?

Topolino, topolino.

Okay, fiat topolino, here I'll put up another picture.

Now they do have it with doors, so if you're listening

what I'm showing is a picture of a tiny-ass little fiat

that looks very much like, Paul,

what are those things from the 1950s that have a reason?

But no, they made a topolino, they made a jolly,

but they made a topolino in the 50s.

But my favorite part is the doors are replaced

by like these museums' stanchions.

Like, it's a rope with looks like a queue line

at an airport.

Okay, so I checked in the car though, no problem.

I checked the dimensions of that thing

and that thing is actually smaller

in almost every measurable way, you know, pun intended,

than our golf cart.

So that car, it's slightly wider, but it's shorter

and it's not as tall than our golf cart.

So what I think this will be used for in the United States

is just that because it's gonna be something

that's gonna be limited to like,

I forget the mile per hour, but, you know,

30 miles per hour or something.

What do you guys think?

It'll be like a gem car, you know, you see going around.

Yeah, yeah.

Huntington Beach, you see a lot of them that,

you know, congested areas where they're street legal,

but they can't go on the highway.

Literally dimensions that look like

it could go forward or backward.

It doesn't, it looks like the same either way.

Like, maybe the seats are on.

I think you actually nailed it.

I don't know if you did your homework prior,

but I think the back panels actually can be replaced

with the front panels.

And I think the whole exterior is made of plastics

that you nailed it.

But I think, I don't know, I just,

I love the electric, Tim.

Yeah, it's all electric.

And it's the start price is like 12 grand in Europe.

12 grand for that thing.

You know what a really nice story.

Mark got costs nowadays.

Do you guys have any idea?

Yeah, 19, 20.

Yeah, or more.

Agreed.

It's already grand.

Gem cars, gem cars are $40, $45,000 for, you know,

4C gem car.

Yeah, so that's my automotive news.

Something a little bit fun.

And by the way, both of my suggestions

will easily fit under a Christmas tree

sticking to the holiday theme.

So David, I don't have any idea what this is.

I didn't click your link.

So what do you got?

OK, I don't know if this was a story

that appeared maybe 10 days ago or something

at least that I saw.

But apparently over in Russia, hundreds of porches

effectively got bricked over a couple of days

where they lost, and it's unclear as to the why here.

But effectively, they lost communications

with the vehicle tracking system.

And as a result, the car locks itself, shuts it off,

makes the car basically undrivable, it breaks the car.

And the story is that I mean, Porsche

has stopped selling cars in Russia,

obviously, since the Ukrainian issues and so on.

But they're still supporting the cars.

But there's at least some thinking that it was malicious

and that somebody sent out or figured out

some way to go hack the system and disconnect

this vehicle tracking system and break these cars.

Or all cars.

No, no, no, these are just ice cars, the whole nine yards.

It's just all these cars now have, and these systems in them

where they're either talking through GPS,

or they're talking through the Wi-Fi,

or not Wi-Fi, excuse me, cellular networks,

so that if the car is stolen or towed or something,

then it's sending some communication

as what's going on.

Let me show you a real world experience.

So we brought our 2018 GT3 touring to Puerto Rico

when we moved here seven years ago.

And it wasn't maybe a month or two that it stopped working.

And I took it to the Porsche dealership

in which there's a huge, really impressive dealership here.

And they really didn't know how to frick and fix it.

And I kept on pressing, kept on pressing.

I called Porsche, and I found out the reason

was exactly the reason you just said

because that car was originally registered

in the United States, Missouri, if I remember correctly.

And now that it was in the Caribbean,

the over-air updates weren't somehow syncing up

and it was causing our little pretty touring

to, you know, crap its drawers.

So there you go.

Makes sense.

I looked at this and when I saw this,

it gave me chills just thinking of what could happen

if some malicious player really decided

they wanted to go after.

All buying cars from you with no computers, that's the answer.

Yeah, well, I like the sound of that.

But boy, I'd like, you know, imagine a bunch of Toyota

is just stranded by the side of the road

and the impact that could have.

So it's out there.

We gotta be careful.

But that was, I thought that was an interesting piece of news.

If you dig in, it suggests that they had to literally

tear these cars apart in some cases

to get them to come back online.

That's a great thing.

I think it's the problem with hundreds

and hundreds of cars in Russia.

Wow, that's crazy.

Well, is that ever, would that have been covered under warranty?

I imagine not, right?

Or maybe it would have been.

Oh, it would have had to have been covered

in the warranty, absolutely.

Because then it did say in the article

that they, you know,

dumped in and fixed whatever the issues were.

Well, as cars how far back,

like what point is it that you get a car

that's no longer connected?

I mean, you know, cars have had computers.

Our three two motoronics have a computer in it.

There is a computer that,

but in terms of being connected,

is it 15 that after 2015,

all cars became connected, 17 like for Porsche.

When did Porsche become connected?

Yeah, I would have said probably 10 years,

something like that.

That's probably right.

So 997 and older.

All right, we're good.

GT3 RS is good.

We got liability though.

Yeah, when it breaks, I'll buy it for 15 grand from you.

Perfect, you got it, buddy.

Now we're talking about the resale value of electric cars.

That's a different topic.

All right, so let's move on.

Paul, you've got something really fun that I think,

you know, I don't,

I'm not a big heritage,

these sort of marketing exercises,

but damn, they nailed this one.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

And it was interesting

because when you announced we're not,

that was our last show,

this just came out.

I was like, oh, I want to talk about this.

Because what we're talking about

is the Porsche 911 GT3 90FA Porsche.

And what that is is a 992.2 GT3 touring

with a, is a commemorative limited edition.

They're making 90 units in celebration

of Fairy Porsche's son, Bootsie Porsche.

And if you remember Bootsie Porsche passed away,

I don't know, 10 years ago, I think now,

I can't remember 2012,

but he was the person behind design of the 911,

the 904, which was a remarkable design

in terms of production,

and really moved Porsche into a whole new realm,

in which by the way, he never got out of design,

I think he flunked out of design school,

but he became such a big part of Porsche's history

and they're celebrating his 90th birthday,

which would have been December 11th with this heritage.

What I found interesting about it is,

I think this is the first GT3,

they've done this kind of limited edition.

We've seen 50th anniversaries.

And I reached out to my insider Porsche designer,

deep throat mole, and I sort of was asking him, why?

Like, they're not having a hard time selling GT3s,

last I checked.

You know, and they're not making 1964 of them,

they're making 90.

And I don't know what you have to be to get 90.

Now, the first one, actually technically,

you're only getting 89.

So basically, Bootsie's youngest son, Mark Porsche,

partnered with Sunderwitch,

and they came up with this sort of,

almost like a love letter from Mark to his dad.

You have more pictures, you can put up all?

Yep, I'm gonna show you more pictures.

So by the way, my insider mole said,

I asked him, hey, how involved were you with this?

He says they took my heritage concept, and that was it.

And he had nothing else to do with it.

It was also underwitch.

So here's the interior.

And I must see if I can find a better picture of the interior.

So what's cool is the interior fabric.

If you can see, it's got a red,

truffle brown leather, there's wood,

but it's like a pepita with red, green, brown.

And he says it basically was similar

to the pattern of his dad's favorite sport coat.

So they had three sports coats.

I watched the video on this.

They had three of his dad's sports coats,

and they were actually matching the materials

or trying to, that's so cool.

It was very cool for sure.

The color is called, I think, F.A. Porsche Groon,

which is, it's a very similar to Oak Green Metallic,

which was a family favorite,

but also, Bootsie Porsche had a green,

an Oak Green Metallic G-Body,

which is really the inspiration,

which I looked all over for pictures of it.

I couldn't find it.

It come mechanically, there's no difference.

It's a GT3 touring, there's no upgrades mechanically.

It comes with this, and if people don't realize,

I think it was his brother and him

who started Porsche design in the early 70s.

And Bootsie Porsche designed the first chronograph

Porsche design watch from the early 70s,

and they basically made it homage to that.

They talked about how they patented it

to look like an older watch.

It's got his initials on it.

You also get this lovely luggage

in the Truffle Brown leather to match the Weekender bag.

And here's another shot.

I don't know if you could see that pattern,

but it's got, it's got like an Oxblood red green.

There's like four or five colors.

It is actually the coolest part.

I think you totally need to copy that

for one of your project cards.

Oh, I mean, I gotta find it closer there, Tim.

The love to do that.

Actually, I think it's not even pipita, it is Hounds Tooth.

Yeah.

His initials, I would say the only thing I don't like

is his initials are annoyingly everywhere.

So what's the difference between pipita and Hounds Tooth

for those who are not interior nerds?

I completely know that.

Well, actually, the answer to this,

because I'm not even sure I know the answer to it.

Well, no, they're different.

They're actually different patterns.

Hounds Tooth, they're not a lot different,

but when you look at Hounds Tooth, it has like a jagged to it.

It has like almost like a tooth.

And when you look at pipita, it's actually squares,

like a checkers and they're made up of different diagonal lines.

So they don't actually shut out.

So if you look at, let me see that,

this picture you could see really close.

So that right there is Hounds Tooth.

Yeah, see how it's got like a diamond jagged?

And that's the same thing this pattern does,

which is unusual.

I don't know, do you have a swatch of pipita?

Of course you do, but it's not here.

I don't have one with me on it.

Dave, didn't you know we were gonna be talking about this?

I didn't, I didn't know.

That just looks like a jacket from the 70s.

It does, but I mean, look at this,

this, I am not one who's a sucker for these limited edition,

you know what I call fluff packages,

where you don't get anything sporty,

you just get, you know, whatever touches of leather.

But this is really cool.

So my first question, two questions, who gets it?

And how much are they gonna sell for on the secondary market?

What do you guys think of the world?

By the way, price, do you know what the price is?

Did you look? Oh, yeah.

So how much, I mean, Dave, you're a recent buyer

of a GT product.

How much was it?

How much is a new nicely option GT3 touring?

320.

Okay, so what do you think it is?

And I think this one comes nicely option.

I don't know if they come with ceramics.

And by the way, what I'm gonna give you is a starting point,

so that I think you can add more to it.

But what do you think the starting price is gonna be?

I mean, it has to be in the threes.

They obviously could sell for a hell of a lot more than that.

So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with greed.

And I'm gonna go with only making 50 of them.

So I'm gonna go start point to 475.

Yeah, I think that would be 90.

How much?

Yeah, 90, not 50.

Well, 89, because Mark gets the first one.

So you can tell us what's the big reveal?

Yeah, 300, 387,000 starting.

Yeah.

So that's before you add ceramics.

So do you think they're gonna do something similar

if you get, are the one of the lucky people who,

first of all, I wanna see who gets these.

What kind of Porsche blood do you have to bleed

to get the honor of getting one?

And then do you have to lease it like the STs?

Are they gonna do something to keep people from?

Not that you know them.

But that's so that's based on the touring,

not on the ST, I assume.

Yep, it's a GT3 touring mechanically exactly the same.

No difference.

It's a special color.

And that's a small, what should you say again?

The base was $387,000 base.

Why would that car fail?

It won't, it would won't.

Why would it?

Well, it could.

The only reason it would fail is if they made too many of them.

Okay, so would you rather have that or an ST

if that ends up basically being ST pricing?

What would you rather have?

That's the reason it would fail.

If basically the market makes it too expensive.

It, yes, you're right.

If it's too expensive, but in the end,

I think what would make it fail

is if they keep doing this.

Like they're going to, of course,

they're going to come out of the Kramer version.

So, but what I don't understand is

it's going to be rusty and cranky.

But all of these limited editions,

like the sport classic, the anniversary editions,

they're always based off like the best one below the GT3,

the GTS models.

Yeah.

What I don't understand is why did they do this on a GT3?

They don't need to sell more GT3s.

You know, touring's are highly sought after.

I just added a hundred grand to the bottom line.

I mean, at least.

Yeah.

I mean, assuming that's a, you know, straight GT3.2, you know,

I mean, that's, that's,

that's things up $100,000 over its base,

original base price on a touring.

Nicely options.

I mean, but that's all, I mean,

that's a margin game right there for sure.

But if it's a margin game,

while you make 90,

I mean, make, but it's 117.

You get more than,

they're probably already made me from the sense that they're

probably already pre-allocated.

They're probably giving them to basically who they feel they're 90,

or you know, 90 best customers are around the world.

And it's, that's basically what it is.

They're showing, you know, appreciation to the people

that have been supporting them through thick and thin.

I would imagine.

Other than that, I mean, they're not making enough

and they could sell a crap 10 more of them.

My only thought is, you know,

when we, do you guys go to rents,

the last rentsport reunion,

23 rentsport reunion, seven in Monterey.

Yes.

Remember, they had that huge sunderwitch display.

Yep.

Really big.

And my only thing is,

this was a partnership with,

this was basically sunderwitch,

sunderwitch flex.

Look what we can do.

And my only, and going to Germany and recently visiting,

how big that department has grown to physically

and how big they're planning on growing to.

And I'm wondering if this is their beginning

of saying, hey, we want more exclusive stuff.

You know, we're ready to do more of this.

And maybe that's their money game is,

all of a sudden, every single GT product

coming through the semilines,

getting rerouted to the sunderwitch department

and getting another $50,000 of, you know,

truffle brown leather.

Porses unlike Ferraris, frankly.

And I can't even think of any other brand.

You actually, if you don't make it really strange,

which they won't let you,

you get your money back on that stuff.

Whereas if you walk into a Ferrari dealership

and you spend a God, you know,

huge amount of money on your Ferrari,

you're gonna lose it for sure.

It with very few exceptions.

So, I mean, yeah, they have all the room to run

because people can rationalize over spending on it

because they know that the secondary market

is gonna not punish them for it.

Yeah, I mean, the thing that, you know,

there's a part of me

and then there's gonna be a bunch of haters

for the same reasons while they're just a money grab.

But in the end, the part of me that hates to admit it

is I kind of want it.

Of course.

Cause it's beautiful.

It's beautiful.

It is gorgeous.

I mean, it's, it's, you know,

50th anniversary sport classic, they were cool,

but this is the first one that I just think

tastefully they nailed it.

You know, and it's, it is cool.

I can taste sort of the sentimentality of his son.

You know, he has several sons and why this one

was really involved means that

they probably had a special relationship.

And, um, and I, you know,

how long Dave until you can get bolts of that fabric

and start doing that on a season career?

I don't have any idea.

It's now very hard to find some of the stuff.

Porsche is very, very tight with it initially.

And somehow some time you find where the,

someone will copy it.

Somebody in Italy right now is weaving that, I promise you.

You know, 100% find out who.

Yeah.

Well, they'll probably find you, you know,

giving the reputation of for Porsche isn't,

Porsche interiors.

But yeah, let's take a quick break.

Keep going guys.

Oh, no, let's do take a quick break.

We'll be back in two seconds.

All right.

So Paul, you mentioned you had some special secret hookup

inside Porsche and, you know, the rest of it.

So what world, you gotta let everyone know.

I know you're sitting on some hot Porsche news,

at least I hope you are about what the special

unlimited edition thing is that's coming next.

I'm sure you're good friend over in Stucart

leaked something to you about the next special

heritage, something or another.

You're shaking your head in the negative.

You're not holding anything.

He is.

He is amazingly good at being tight lipped.

The closest I ever got information when I told you

about the Germany trip.

And on the Sunday of Le Mans, the Saturday of Le Mans,

when the design and visac area was completely empty,

we got to drive around it.

And he would just point out you didn't see that.

And my head's on a swivel because it was some clad it out.

Now, some of it was electric stuff

that I think had got shelved.

Some of it, you know, how you see these mocked up cars,

it has a wing.

I think some of the things I saw was

what's gonna be the new GT2RS,

which I think will be a slant nose.

You know, at Renspert reunion,

I think it was six when they, you know, the 935 came out.

And the biggest heartbreak about that was,

it wasn't for the street.

It was a frickin race car.

But man, it was cool.

It was very cool.

And I remember talking to Jeff Sward about it

because he drove the road scholars one at Pike's Peak

and he just said it was one of the most tame,

easy, super fast race cars to drive.

Like a Corvette.

Like a ZR1.

I'm completely unlikely to get one.

And so it was just, it was just,

but outside of that Pike's Peak experience,

when was the last time you saw,

I don't know what the 935s did.

Were they just weekend track toys?

You never see them.

And if we, if they do the GT2RS

as a 935 really looking thing that's on the street,

granted, there'll be a handful of them.

Most people near mortals will never get them,

but we will see them.

The world will go crazy.

The portion world, the car world will go crazy.

It really will.

And Porsche's teed themselves up so perfectly,

making frankly, you said something last week,

which was really funny.

I'd never heard the term before.

Or Lambo Bros or something.

We were talking about Lambo.

Lambo, yeah.

How the, like well, but the GT3RS has become a car

that's, you know, sought after by the Instagram generation.

And so that, you know, if Porsche starts leveraging that,

they're going to be completely on a different trajectory.

Yeah.

Well, what do you think about the,

do you have any opinion or have you heard anything about

the supposed GT3 Touring Cabriolet?

I mean, you know, isn't that a speedster?

Well, I think there's going to be both a speedster

and a Cabriolet.

The speedster will be limited edition.

The speedster will have all, but you know, this is then that's.

But the, and a raked windshield and, you know,

whoever knows what else, what do you think, Dave?

If you heard anything or have any opinions,

I've not heard anything.

Obviously, I have only the stuff that we talked

about a few episodes ago.

I guess the question would be, it's just another variant.

So if you do a speedster GT3 Touring, right?

A convertible version, they'll sell the shit out of it.

It'll be a Cabriolet GT3, which basically would be a Touring.

And then they'll be the speedster,

which will be the numbered car that's super hard to get.

That would be, I would do that if I were Porsche.

I'm not saying it's, I would just not call it.

That's fine, but I wouldn't call it that.

You know what I would call it?

The Roadster.

Yeah, that's actually that's really fricking the good idea

because that goes all the way back to 356s.

That's a great idea.

Put a back seat.

Why wouldn't you call it Speedster, Paul?

Why wouldn't you call it that?

Well, no, no, you're gonna have a speedster.

I just, GT3 Cabriolet, it's, it's, it's like,

contradictory race car cruiser.

Like which is it?

Hold on, aren't Formula One cars ruthless?

Yeah, they're open-wheeled too.

They're, they're just scarcity.

They have no parts to them.

They're the limited, they're the most limited,

they can for weight and arrow.

Well, but where you,

you're saying sports cars can't be convertibles.

I don't even see how to do that.

No, but this, the GT3's positioned as a track car

that's for the street.

And the one thing we know about, you know,

when was the last time you watched Le Mans

with GT class, with a convertible?

With a roll bar, even a Targa, you know?

Even maybe in the 70s, I don't even know if they did Targa's.

I mean, I've seen guys with Targa's at track days,

but like, you look at old footage.

I mean, outside of the prototypes,

those are different things.

But when you look at the GT classes, GT3, GT2,

they're all coups.

And so to me, fine, make it, make more money,

the more money you make,

the more cars you can offer people down the line,

you know, for different levels of buyers.

Horses so screwed right now because the stupid politicians,

sorry, I can't avoid it.

In Germany and Europe has screwed the manufacturers

the extent by forcing these stupid electric car mandates

down them and got them completely misaligned

with what their customer base wanted.

And you got to think about Porsche and Germany's

been having to play by these, you know,

rules being made by these guys and Brussels,

making these cars that nobody wants to buy.

And all the time, all the wild China is essentially creating

really phenomenal electric car products.

And I don't know if we talked about last week

or I just talked about with you guys in WhatsApp.

I was really joyful to read that Germany in particular

is coming around to the realization

because I guess there's a lot of public private ownership

with Volkswagen group between, if it's even, yeah,

with the German government owns part of it,

I guess something like that.

Long story short, is they're fearful of the massive layoffs

that would happen if Porsche had to completely,

you know, scrap their ice made cars.

And so what appears to me to be happening

is that there's going to be electric cars

which are going to be dominated by China

and maybe some outliers.

And then the ice cars are going to come back.

Look, all of a sudden there's an new 718 replacement.

All of a sudden all these hypercar electric cars

are being scrapped.

It seems to me like the way that these companies

are going to segment themselves

are going to be ice cars, electric cars.

And that means that the Germans, you know,

are beloved brand Porsche

is going to be able to go back

and doing what they do the best of.

And I hope that's true.

And they're going to keep on pushing these stupid,

you know, mandates way off into the future

the extent that they're not even going to matter anymore.

Otherwise people are going to lose their jobs.

You know, and it becomes abundantly clear

when you go to Germany,

the automotive industry is everything to country.

And Volkswagen is the largest company.

Like over any power company, everything.

Volkswagen is the largest provider

and Mercedes is massive.

And I remember beginning when there was going to be tariffs,

it terrified the Germans

because their whole industry,

their whole economy is based on this product that's desired.

And our market is, I don't know what we consume.

I would say between China and the United States

or at least North America,

that's got to be over 50% of their market for sure.

So I think ultimately, you know,

whatever the world wants to do company, you know,

manufacturers in Germany have to look at America.

They can't deny it.

And if we still demand ice cars for our sports cars.

The world won electric cars or were this,

the, you know, the pinheads telling us

that that's what we should buy.

Did we really want those damn things

or people just telling us what we should want?

Which is the answer?

I think there's no black or white.

It's a little bit of both.

I mean, just to give you an example,

like I don't hate electric cars.

And I think for appliances,

especially in where I live in cities,

like last night, my mom has a Mercedes SUV plug-in hybrid.

And I drove it last night in electric mode.

It was great.

In traffic, getting around, it was great.

You know, I think in the end, you know,

going back, you know, 10, 20, 30 years now,

we're gonna look at these plug-in hybrids

and go, what were we thinking?

Like two, like we've now made it overly complicated.

Two motors, like why couldn't we choose?

And we talked about this before the podcast.

There's gonna, we are right now in this struggle

that existed over a century ago,

which is which way are the auto manufacturers gonna go?

I think back then, just like today,

there's politics involved.

I think big oil really pushed the industry to go a certain way.

Just like the tire manufacturers pushed Los Angeles

to not have mass transit.

Let's have this debate.

Who is the biggest investor?

Who, what country, Saudi Aramco is the answer?

Into energy being made if something other than oil.

They are, the Saudis and the Middle Eastern countries

are investing in all that stuff.

So just immediately go to the talking point,

the big oil was trying to push us away from electric cars.

Who was trying to push us towards electric cars?

And where do electric cars make their energy?

We're gonna start getting political and piss people off.

But the truth is, is that I'm so happy, Paul and David,

that we're going to see GT3s, GT3RSs.

We're gonna see ice powered cars come back.

And then they manufacture.

Why do you think Porsche has been holding the line

on the four liter with 500 horsepower forever?

Because they probably were fearful

to help much relevancy.

That thing was gonna have 10 years from now.

Now they're gonna hopefully maybe come up

with a 4.2 liter or a 4.4 liter.

But also, I mean, I think from anything that proceed

to sports car, okay, electric cars,

we don't want electric sports cars

and it has this negative impact.

But in the end, there is technology.

Look what Porsche is doing with the new turbo,

the Turbo S, the GTS.

They're using electric technology

to actually make these sports cars even more engaging.

Filling torque fill, making the shifts faster,

doing things that aren't necessarily

about OLEDs drive in electric mode.

But let's just make the performance even more unique

and keep a six-cylinder four liter engine

and add power differently.

If you think about that though,

an electric sports car is probably a,

just forget the power plant for a minute.

It's a better car.

It's gonna accelerate faster, tons of torque.

Its center gravity is gonna be extremely low

because you've got all the weight

from the battery sitting down on the car.

I'm sure these cars perform extremely well.

So the idea that we don't want an electric sports car

is much more akin to the idea of,

we just, we have a hard time letting go

of the ice stuff, you know, these are.

The subjective word is the word better, right?

Well, but the one problem electric sports cars

have against him is weight.

And eventually battery technology will get better

and that may be resolved to some degree,

but ultimately weights the killer.

I don't think that's the one problem.

They can overcome weight.

Obviously, if you're a sports car,

you're gonna feel no matter how much power you have,

but it's the touch points.

It's the interaction.

It's the, it's just like there is some reason people

like manual transmissions.

It's one of the ways you connect with the machine

and electric car moves you further and further

and further away from all of that.

That's the thing ultimately.

I think people are rejecting.

Intuitively, they're rejecting it, you know,

from a, I think it's something for all of us to celebrate

and really appreciate the fact that finally,

we might have actually some significant money

going back into developing cars that are other than electric.

They're not the panacea that we were all promised,

you know, they're just not.

So you guys ready to go on to the next topic?

Absolutely.

All right, so this is not something I know shit about.

So you guys are gonna have to talk about this.

That we had quite a number of comments

about nice comments, respectful comments,

but people that were on one side or the other

are bringing a trailer.

I didn't realize there were two sides to bring a trailer.

I like going to bring a trailer, you know?

That's my one side.

But there were a lot of people

that had differing opinions on that.

David, you want to start out with this

and kind of like voicing some of the things that we were being,

that were being sent to us, emails and whatnot.

I think the stuff that people,

we can read something about, yeah.

Paul, do you have something we can read?

Sorry, David.

I don't think I pulled that comment down.

I'm trying to think of.

I think I dropped it in the WhatsApp group.

Well, I remember the gist of the comment was,

it's great for sellers, it's terrible for buyers.

I mean, that was kind of the gist of the comment.

And he further went on to say, he asked,

I think us specifically and people who've done

bring a trailer listings,

how do you keep people from sabotaging the auction?

For one reason or another?

I think I said a different one,

but that was interesting too.

So people shit talking,

people's cars that are for sale,

and that then follows the bin number forever,

whether the comments were valid or not.

And I did have sympathy for the seller on that one.

But yeah.

I mean, and they do it for a variety of reasons.

Some of it's just spite,

some of its ignorance,

because they're a no at all,

and they want to flex their knowledge muscle

and show how important they are.

And these are the people who have a million comments

but never bid or buy one thing.

Some of it is just they hate the seller,

they feel wronged by the seller,

and they're gonna take it out there.

And some of it,

which I think is the most nefarious,

is they want to buy the car

and they're gonna shit talk it to get the price down.

You guys are talking generalities.

I want to drill down,

because we're no bullshit on this podcast.

You guys on WhatsApp,

we're citing some more specific things.

So I want you to say what your observations are

if not observations,

what you've heard or experienced

as far as the people that are acting nefariously.

Dave, you've done some more bringing trailer listings

than I have, I stay away from it.

I'm very fortunate, I don't have to use it.

And maybe the day I'll have to use online actions,

but what you've experienced,

and I've seen many sellers experience,

I don't want any part of.

And ultimately, I think you can really hurt

some really great cars permanently, unfortunately,

because they'll have the scarlet that are attached to their vene.

But I think that the issue that we're talking about overall

is just the chance of the trolls in general

and people that are trying to blow these auctions up

for no good reasons.

I've seen it work, you know, both ways.

I've watched cars,

I think one of the examples I put up in our group chat

is a 74T, I wish I had a picture on it here

that, excuse me, a 74Targa

that transacted four times on bringing trailer.

And the first two times it transacted in the 20s, mid 20s,

then it sold again in the 50s.

And I would have sworn that this car was going to take a dive,

you know, it wasn't going to do well.

It's basically the only thing about this car that was special

was that it was Gemini Blue was a good color.

But at the end of the day, the car did,

I was shocked, the car did 75 on this last go-around.

Didn't it get improved, though, of every subsequent signal?

Yeah, it did get improved.

The car did get improved along the way,

but sometimes I think that still hangs them up, right?

I mean, it wasn't, this car was not some trailer queen car.

This was a driver car all the way

and we had the car here in the shop.

And I was really surprised at that final number.

I thought it was a very strong number for that car.

And I attributed to the color,

I mean, there was good comments, there was bad comments,

there were people that were thinking

that the car had been far more improved along the way

than it was, you know?

But at the end of the day, my friend,

who's the seller of this car, called me and said,

you know, I've serviced it, I know the car,

I looked at the car,

hey, would you mind putting up a comment?

So I put up a comment on it and I said,

you know, the car, I wasn't overstating what this car was.

I just thought the car was kind of a gentleman's driver car.

It was a good condition car that ran well,

looked decent, didn't look perfect, far from perfect.

So I thought that was a good outcome,

good result in that particular car.

And there are some, I'm deciding right now

the car I have over my shoulder, this yellow car.

I've got so many people interested in this car,

but there's no money on it yet.

I'm, I submitted to bring a trailer yesterday

and I submitted it with a number

that I thought was a reasonable reserve for this car.

Now there, of course, like they always do,

they're trying to negotiate me down

because they got to make sure that this car sells

because that's when they make their true commission.

They're otherwise they're going to get their $100

listing fee and that's it.

So they don't want to burn a spot

with a high reserve that the car won't hit.

But I think this car does extremely well

based on condition, based on the information

that we have on the work that was done on the car

and all that sort of stuff.

I think this car does better than the number

they've countered with so far.

So we'll see where that goes.

And I think that's kind of a problem

with bringing a trailer too.

And when I say it's one of the challenges,

it's their business, I get it.

They want to make sure that the car sells.

So the lower the reserve, the more likely the car

is going to sell.

It's like any other auction site or any in-person auction.

In this case though, I think, you know, bring a trailer

sometimes we'll try to push down the number

and maybe they should.

I mean, you know, well,

and you mentioned something talking about

the Gemini Blue Car.

I wonder if that car had never been on

bring a trailer.

It had just quietly sold as it was

improved, improved, improved.

And so the last time it was on the,

when it was finally on bring a trailer,

it was the most improved it had been.

And no one knew any history of it.

Would it have sold for more than 75,000?

Was that number what I call an auction anchor?

Where there's this human nature, we don't want to,

no one wants to feel like they overpaid.

No one wants to feel like they get duped.

I was listening to a podcast with Doug Demiro

and he talked about this.

He's like the worst thing people could do

on an online auction.

Cars and bids, bring a trailer, whatever,

is when they go, the reserve is off.

And he goes guaranteed kills all bidding.

And it's sure enough.

When you look at, when someone says reserve is off,

the next bid, that's it, there's no more bids.

Because no one, because everyone feels at that point,

they're overpaying.

And even if the guy got the money he wanted,

and yes, even if the brain says,

hey, this is still a good value.

It's a good value at $20,000 more.

There's this human nature,

regardless of your income, what you think the value is.

You don't want to feel like the guy who got duped.

You don't want to feel like the guy who got overpaid.

And suddenly, you'll see these cars that have improved.

You know, like a 964 that sells in 2012,

and then it sells again in 16,

and it sells in 21, and you're like,

and I look at him, like that car should be 40 grand more.

But people saw it sell for half the price.

Like, ooh, I'm not going to be the guy.

You know, it's sold for 40 grand back then

because something was wrong.

And I'm like, no, because the market didn't care about the car.

Well, there isn't any fuel though, Paul,

when it's a no reserve auction right from the get.

Right?

I mean, in my opinion, if you're going to sell a car,

and this takes way of us, which I don't have,

and which is why I don't do it,

if you're going to sell a car in an auction format,

you do everything you can to position it the best way possible

in terms of the car, the presentation.

When the auction lists it, you do all your homework

and you let it fly.

And you do all your promotion outside of it, get people in.

You see some of these big partners of bringing a trailer,

doing their own side promotion, social media.

You do everything you can to scream

that this car is available, no reserve, someone's getting it.

And I've done a couple in-person auctions.

I don't have the taste for it.

I think three bring a trailer auctions, not porches.

I didn't want to do any of them, the client wanted to do them

and those were reserve auctions

and I still didn't want to do them.

And I just not an auction person.

So did you guys know if something doesn't sell

I'd bring a trailer that they will allow the buyer

and the seller to communicate

and they can do a deal outside of bring a trailer

and not have to pay a bring a trailer fee?

They used to be that way.

I think they now, they allow them to do,

because you'll see it where it doesn't meet the reserve

and then it says sold afterwards.

And I think bring a trailer because Peacar Market

was doing this with deal tank and some other stuff.

I think they finally realized we're missing out on commission.

But how would they track that?

There's not allowing people to communicate.

They're only allowing the top bidder to communicate.

Well, that's what I meant, though.

So when that bidder communicates before, yes,

the top bidder they connected them.

If they did a deal, bring a trailer didn't get a fee.

I think now they're realizing

they're leaving too much money on the table.

I think they're still getting a fee.

Because I think what was actually happening

is my theory, because I've sold

on some more expensive cars in particular

that they actually weren't intentionally

the buyer and the seller had been communicating

outside of bat and deciding not to basically thing

so they could do the deal outside of bat

and save the fees.

But we'll see, if you guys know about that, let us know.

I hadn't heard what Paul said.

I mean, Brandon, the fee's like $7,500 max now at this point.

So I mean, it depends on the car, of course,

whether or not it's going to really be relevant.

Bring a trailer will often, if you're not,

if you're right on the fringe of reserve,

they will do a make good.

So that if you're close enough,

they will make the deal happen

and take the commission cut on their side.

Really?

I didn't know.

Yeah, which I've had a couple clients burned.

Because they didn't really understand that.

I had one client specifically with RS America

and I can't remember exact numbers.

They told the seller,

this car should sell for 120, let's say.

But the reserve's going to be 100.

And they're like, it's funny how humans here

what they want to hear.

He just heard 120.

He didn't realize is to weigh in the auction

that the car, if it bid to 100, it was sold.

And this was a car by the way that he asked me if I would sell

and I told him specifically that it could sell for this.

And he's like, well, I can't,

I got a net over 110.

And I go, well, you may, you may not.

And then when I saw that on there and I was like,

oh man, I wouldn't know what reserve they did.

I don't know, I can't say for sure,

but I have a feeling someone, as we see,

helped bid it to 97.5.

Candleaire bidding.

But someone may be in his circle

knowing that there's 100,000 are reserved.

And like Dave said, sold.

And he, you know, pooped his pants

because guess what?

Not only did his car sell for 100 grand,

so that the fee would have been, let's say, 4,500.

Bring a trailer realized, hey, we'll just, you know,

we'll cut off $2,500 at the 4,500.

That's better than a poke and an eye with a sharp stick.

You know, we would have gotten nothing.

And now not only, I have a feeling he sold it for less,

he had to pay $2,500 to bring a trick.

Like it was, I remember seeing him at an event.

And I didn't realize exactly what had gone on

because I just said, hey, how did it go?

I wasn't trying to beat like an asshole.

I think he took it that way.

He was bitter and angry.

I'll tell him what Candleaire bidding is.

And we talked about this actually

as one of our first podcasts here.

It's basically Candleaire bidding

is where there's usually the auction error.

I got a phone bidder.

No, you don't.

What they're doing is they're trying to fake bid the car up

and get people usually live audience to follow along

believing that there's offers coming in.

And so the concept is there's the chandelier

in the big hall where all the auction is going off.

And the guy running the auctioned auctioneer

is pointing at the chandelier.

That's where the joke comes from.

I got 50,000 from the Ficus in the corner.

Exactly, but it's legal.

And you can actually see it happening at these big auctions.

If you sit in the back of the room,

especially if there's a lot of people on there

and you see the auctioneer pointing

this direction, this direction,

and there's nobody over there,

or there's certainly a couple of ladies

that are there doing their knitting.

You know, for sure, they're not bidding on a 64 big block,

right? Those types of things.

Well, what they're smart, though, now,

they go to the bank of people sitting on the phones.

You got a phone bidder like you don't even know.

In the internet, internet.

Yeah, and Tim, if you remember

when we were having this conversation,

you and I were both like, this is BS.

This is shady crap.

Now, our colleague Greg, who was in the auction world,

he did convert me because I think to some degree

in the right circumstance,

I'm still not a fan of it.

It preserves the value because let's say

there's sometimes something just misses.

A GT3 comes up for auction,

and it looks to be all the part.

But if you really dig into it,

the engine was replaced.

It went back in until Laguna's sake of corkscrew.

It was just an F-dub car.

And so suddenly, this GT3 goes for 40% under market.

And then as that time goes on,

everyone looks at why it was at 40%.

They just go, oh, and all of a sudden, the market,

you're GT3.

The next one coming up from auction pays a price.

So I think in a some degree,

it does help preserve the market.

We have been personally a victim of chandelier bidding

where it was, I thought, more nefarious

where the auction house wasn't interested

at selling it at the auction that we were selling it at.

They wanted it to be at Monterey.

And they basically created that, right?

I mean, there was a rumor growing around

that the Jerry Seinfeld Ports 917, I think it was,

that sold was supposedly bought by an insider.

And as I said, it didn't sell in a public sale

in the traditional sense as it was portrayed to.

So, but we don't need to talk about that

because I don't want to get any registered letters.

Yeah.

Have we beaten this topping into the ground?

You guys ready to move to something more fun?

Yeah, let's move on, that was fun though.

All right, good.

Christmas version of this, they're that.

You've been a very good boy, not you, Kramer.

You've been a very good boy this year.

Santa is going to bring you one new car this year.

The total budget is 130 grand.

And yes, it can be a portion 911,

but I'll be shocked if you guys are,

oh, of course, Kramer's gonna throw up a 911.

I said, David, you said you've been sitting there

patiently, you get to go first.

Well, worries.

I took two cars and I got a third just in case

I got crap on any of these two cars.

Wait, can we make it clear?

This or that is too hard for that?

This or that?

Yeah, two cars.

But then you're saying then we get to vote

on which one or some some iteration of that.

You guys, you guys, whoever's presenting the other two

get to choose, right, which is the gift for him.

Hey, okay, there you go.

We just enhanced the rules.

I like it even better.

Excellent, especially if you can actually make it happen.

Now, this is for a guy that, you know,

I happen to, you know, now own a GT3 RS.

So this is not necessarily,

this was just me being a good boy

and since Santa was bringing me a new toy,

what new toy can I get that I could still find

that's under $130,000?

And I still think, and we've discussed this at length,

that a 991.1 GT3 PDK and all, right,

is a fantastic car that you can still find.

Now, they're already creeping up.

I mean, the prices, this one was,

I think this one went off right under the number here

at like 125, 127, something like that.

But a 20, you know, 25,000 mile

got the motor upgrade in it.

So you got all the, they're all so, so damn cheap.

That doesn't make sense.

It's, it's, it's what I call that.

I am, I am s, I'll, they might do it.

Same idea, it's, I didn't know they're that cheap.

Holy crap.

Yeah, people are so afraid of that motor

and, and I just wonder like, if you look at Porsche generations

in mid-year 911s, how long did people just crap

on mid-year 911s because of the motor?

30 years later, and then the next,

and then what was the next victim?

Then you had 996 with the IMS bearing

and then you have 997 with bore scoring.

And as the internet has helped proliferate

more of this sort of scare tactics,

the 991.1 GT3 sadly is in the crosshairs

of every forum group that wants to for whatever reason

eat their young and light the thing on fire.

And like Dave said, it is an amazing car.

And I look at it, I'm like, a 997 is,

is more expensive, 0.1 or 0.2.

A lot more.

It is the, the only thing cheaper is a 996 GT3

and barely, barely, right.

Maybe the same price, a 25,000 mile ones,

probably the same price.

Kramer, what would you rather have?

That blue car 996 GT3.

What would you rather have?

You have a 996 GT3.

I mean, this is my, this is my, this is my, this or that here.

All right, I'm sorry, I'm talking about it.

Sorry, sorry, Dave, you're not here for it.

Seriously, I'm going to run over.

No, I'm excited about your choice, Dave,

because I think it's okay.

That's choice one, you nailed it.

The choice two was actually,

I'm going to go this choice to this time,

just to make it a little bit more interesting.

But you got me excited, this was choice.

This was choice two, this is a,

I want it, this is a 66 VW bus.

Yeah, it's a double cab.

This, this was near me.

This car sold earlier this year.

I want to say it sold for about $43,000.

So this is a much cheaper this or that.

But I just looked at this car.

It was nicely restored.

It's an original.

It's not a Brazilian market car.

Not that that really bothers me at all.

But I just thought this was the ultimate cool shop truck.

If I want something that's a gift that Santa is bringing me

under the tree, if it was red, it would be better.

But I will, you know, I'll start with this

because I think of the two cars.

This would make a really cool shop truck to run around town.

And those, those are my two choices.

I think it's going to be an easy pick

for you two gentlemen to decide which one you'd like.

But I could tell you what you have in my choice.

I'm, you go last, I'm going to change my tune.

I'd buy the Volkswagen.

I agree with Tim.

And my reason is, number one, you've got a GT3 RS.

I mean, that's like having two scoops

of different versions of vanilla ice cream.

I mean, and plus Dave, that would be two automatics.

You need a manual transmission car.

And by the way, you drive around in North Carolina

and a GT3 RS, who cares?

You drive around in a double cab, instant cool.

You could be the most uncool guy in the world.

And I mean, do they come with a Labrador?

They come with a dog, right?

Get a dog?

Hopefully, but those things are especially cool.

Honestly, those double cabs are especially cool.

Hey, you've had a bus, right, Tim?

You've had a bus.

I have one.

No, no, I have a bus.

Yeah, I have a, I mean, Dave, have you had a bus

or driven a bus?

I have, actually, yeah, I've had a 167 split window.

When you get over that steering wheel, you know,

it is not even slow-car fast.

It's just like you just vibe.

I mean, and then you realize that your whole front party,

your whole legs are your bumpers

and you're going to probably die if you hit a,

hit like a chihuahua.

But ultimately,

definitely got to upgrade the motors and these things.

They're not great on the highway for sure,

like, you know, 60 miles an hour is about a day you get.

But you put a nice little two liter in there,

little two liter Porsche motor in that thing.

Oh, what a ripper.

That would be so much fun.

I'm going to have, we're going to,

that's going to be some more.

What do you, what do you want, Dave?

Let's just say, let's just say there's no dollar value.

You get that of the GT3.

And when you're done with it, whenever it is a year,

10 years, a hundred years, you give it back.

There's no residual value.

There's no selling value.

It's just like what do you get and you,

and there's no maintenance.

It just is what it is as long as you want to own it.

What would you choose of those two?

I would take the bus right now.

Yeah.

I would take the bus to get to stay on the podcast for another week.

You're on the show for another week.

You've earned the right.

Oh, thank God.

I think God, I've not been voted off the island here with the,

you know, the tribe is spoken here.

Yeah.

No, by the vote, so I can definitely, it's cooler.

I mean, it's just more fun.

Yeah, yeah, we're all dorks basically.

By the way, I put up a picture.

So we, that is a band again.

I know you guys don't know what this is.

A band again, B32.

It was the band that Porsche made.

It had the 3.2 liter in it, the whole thing.

So we built a tribute if you want to call it that.

In ours, it's got the 1.18 in it.

It's got the same wheels.

It's red, David.

It's the Karat version.

It's got really, I bought it on bringing trailer back

and I don't remember how many years ago.

I just restored it slowly.

New air conditioning system, new electrical system,

new suspension, new brakes.

It's actually lowered like this one is.

You know, lowered it to the Porsche specs.

Chipped it, 250 horsepower.

Put in manual transmission in it.

So all the things.

And yeah, and it's sitting there, and I don't drive it.

I mean, I will start at one point.

You know how my lust cars is the Volkswagen rabbit

that's been split in the middle with the whole 9.28.

We've talked about before.

I kind of would love a collection

of these sort of bastard children

from major manufacturers, whether they're hiding it

or it's just a passion project.

Like, you know, Porsche built these Volkswagen bus 964 things,

the rabbit.

I'll bet you there's a whole collection

of different manufacturers that have hidden other cars

inside of them.

I would love, imagine I've had a collection like that.

That would be pretty fun.

It would be.

All right, I'll go next.

I'll be quick.

So we have this, which is a, I'm trying to remember

what year it is.

1990 Porsche Karara to Targa.

And this is from Ryan Friedman Motor Cars.

Viola Metallic, I think it has a white interior.

Yeah, here, do it like this.

A Targa.

So there's that.

I think it had 50,000 miles on it.

It was right in the sweet spot as far as it was.

It's a, is it a Euro car?

Yeah, it's got, it looks like a 92, a later one.

It's got the Aero mirrors, the cup wheels.

You can click on that Ryan Friedman Lincoln.

You can fill in the blanks while I pull up my next one.

So that's 4K miles.

But it had a black leather interior, not white.

Oh, you're right.

Nice interior.

Yep.

My least favorite steering wheel.

I hate that wheel.

My least favorite.

I hate that steering wheel.

But the car is a 993 RS steering wheel for those listening.

Right.

But, you know, there it is.

So why, why that one?

Obviously, it's weird.

It's not something I'd necessarily choose if, or, you know,

but Santa's bringing it and the kid could fit in the back.

She's small, you know.

And this would be a fun little family sports car, which,

you know, all my other little fun cars are two seaters.

All right.

Or this, which I have a feeling you guys will prefer.

And now I'm going to find that one.

What color, it's a 991.1, right?

Yep.

And what color is that?

What's the red called?

Can you, when do you guys click on that link?

Oh god.

Your link didn't work on this one, Tim.

When I clicked it.

Hold on a second.

You can cut and paste and put it into a browser.

So anyway, these are both basically the same price.

So one is a coupe, one is a Targa, one is a 991,

the other is a 994.

And they're both manuals.

And they're both basically PTS colors.

Yeah, I'm trying to think it was a color that came out.

The 991 is a 996 color.

And it's sort of an orangeish red metallic.

It's beautiful.

I tried to open link to it didn't, it's a really cool color.

And I'm, it's killing me with the, I got it.

I pulled it up.

So this one is 99,000.

The other one was 129,000.

So I'm going to give myself a $30,000 budget to fix things.

It is called Ameron Red Metallic.

No, that color I haven't heard of, it's cool.

It's kind of an orangey red.

Yeah, I'm going to cut and paste it so you guys can,

it's AM-A-R-A-N-T-H Red Metallic.

Yeah, the only thing I didn't like about this one

is that tan interior, which is, I mean, tan carpet,

which is never great.

But there you go.

So, they will, they will change it for you.

Yeah, I know.

I can fix that.

So those, those are both options.

And they're both basically one is 100.

The other is 130 or 125 or whatnot.

So what, what do you guys think?

I'll go.

Yeah, go.

I like the, I like the 964, obviously.

Now, as much as it's a Targa, but I think it's, again,

we're, the color is fantastic to Eurocar.

It's a nice, I mean, that's a nice piece, you know,

and it's beautiful.

And it is beautiful, but Dave, think about this.

The beginning of the show, the people couldn't listen.

If we ever have a patron, maybe they would have seen this.

But Tim was wearing his wife's beater shirt before he

was ready to dress up.

And he, imagine him on the island circling

with Ricky Martin in his wife's beater shirt.

And the whole family in the car is this car purple.

It's perfect.

It is Puerto Rico purple.

It is total.

It's that that's the car you have on Puerto Rico.

That's not a, you know, that's the car for sure.

Yeah, I agree with you even though you're trying to be sarcastic.

But you know, where else do that would really work?

Is anywhere on planet Earth because it's bad ass?

It is, it is actually a cool car.

And as much as I love 991.1s, I think that is the most,

interesting car.

And 964 Targas are so rare.

And if it really came in that color, which makes sense,

it's a rest of the world car.

What was the price of it?

It was under 130.

It seems to me, it seems to me cheap.

There's, I would dig further in there.

It could be an odometer.

There might be other things.

Obviously you take the California market.

You can't register in California if it is rest of the world.

So maybe that's part of it.

But it seems like a good value.

Good choices, Tim.

All right, you're up next, Kramer.

So my love for Quarity, it's probably the only new Porsche

I actually love.

And the sad thing is I think the rest of the world loves them

and they are getting harder to find.

I was shocked when I looked on classic.com.

There are so few that have sold in 2025.

Bring a trailer had three total for the whole year

of Quarities.

And I forgot how many they made.

I don't think they were limited.

They made a couple thousand.

But to get a non-sun roof manual is pretty hard.

And then if you want to get rid of silver or black

or white, just an actual color.

This one is Guards Red.

It's a 19.

It's sold in July, which was the most recent

bring a trailer one.

Sold for 112 plus fees, almost 120.

It had 49,000 miles.

What I liked about it, and this is the most dealers

as we've talked about for Quarities,

were ordered by the dealers on spec.

So they would do full leather interior.

And really the cool interior was just to do the base,

which was this race text with the red pin striping.

I'm not a huge fan of red gauges,

but the car looked really nice.

I think this is one of the best steering wheels.

The three spoke steering wheel,

which by the way, my source at Porsche

is the one who designed that.

I think it showed up in the early 2000s.

Everybody in their brother knows who you're talking about.

If they watch the podcast or looking at your pictures,

it's not a freaking big secret.

Anyway, so not low miles.

I mean, this is the sad thing, 50,000 miles,

and it sold it for almost 120 grand,

which hurts me because as much as I love this,

if this was a 99.1, same mile, same color,

a manual base career, or even an S,

it would probably be 40% to 50% that price.

I'm just gonna make a comment.

I'm not trying to step on your toes here,

but between that car and David's GT3

from the same generation for the same price,

something's right, not right there.

I agree.

Oh, one's a manual.

And his is a 0.1 versus a 0.2,

because if his was a 0.2, an 18 or 19...

We're talking about a GT3 from the same generation,

a 99.1 versus the base 911,

or now and resell why selling for the same money,

that doesn't make sense.

I agree.

Like I said, these cars should be under 100,000.

For sure.

And then you get to the point as much as I love these cars,

when you're driving it, is this $120,000 driving experience

where David's car is $125,000, $130,000 driving experience.

So anyway, I love these.

It kills me to know that they are unfortunately

jumped the shark.

I don't know if they'll ever be cheaper.

They've kind of become this modern day coat.

They're right up there with a 991.2 GT3 touring.

They're just kind of this,

they're always gonna be more, always gonna be more,

like wide body 993s.

But this car sold yesterday,

and I tell you, I just, I fell in love with this car.

It didn't sell.

This is, say what it is.

Let him know.

A 1983, a 1980 911 SC,

with the engine basically built into a 3.2,

so it's a short stroke 3.2,

which is a more peppy version.

And it's built to be a Dutch police car.

It's not one of the real Dutch police cars.

They spent $185,000 building this.

I don't think that included the car.

That was the build.

And when you dug into the pictures,

this car was spectacular.

And they got every detail right.

I mean, even down,

if you could see the switches where the radio would go,

they're just like, they got,

I don't even know where some of these switches exist.

They even got in the back.

This was the emergency tray, which had the helmets.

And for most people who don't understand Dutch police cars,

I don't know how it happened,

but someone in the Dutch royal family,

going back to the 356 era,

thought it would be a great idea for whatever reason.

Maybe they just wanted to be closer to Porsche,

get a better allocation.

They decided to start ordering these Dutch police cars,

which weren't for chasing criminals.

They were mostly for traffic duty.

They were like highway patrol.

And they were all open cars.

They were convertibles.

They were targets.

And they were basically used to control traffic.

So you could stand up inside.

You had a, if you look at the back,

you had a PA and a microphone.

And you could just start barking at people.

And then there's the panel right above the license plate

lights up and you can have words.

This is going back ways.

The last police car they made, I want to say,

was a 964 target, which was at Airwater.

And by the way, I love these cars so much

that I have mimicked my 944 Turbo S into a police Dutch police

car, which by the way, they never did a trans axle car.

And I think some of the royal family just said,

hey, stop with the Dutch police cars.

But the other thing was a lot of cool things about that.

You guys are trying to school me.

I want a perfect rally car as I think right there,

even though that might be too nice.

But that car had a ton of really bad

ass original parts on it too, which I love reading

about all that weird stuff.

It's so much fun.

What was the no sale on that one day?

It bid to $101,000.

Yeah, 101.

Which, you know, so after fees, that's $106,000, $7,000.

But take the jib jib off that.

Make that is, you know, which I wouldn't.

But if you were just making a normal white target,

I would still think that's a good price.

I would when you looked at the work they did,

I mean, that was a fully restored car.

Here's the sad thing, Dave.

The car started off as Talbot yellow.

Oh, I know.

I saw it was just kind of like, oh,

like if you're going to do that, do a red or a black.

Any other color, any other color, not any other color.

But it was, you know, when you look at the restoration,

that car, I think if I had it as just a white,

original white that restored SC Targa,

I would sell it for well over 100.

I don't know what they want.

I think ultimately if, because here's the problem is,

I started looking up Dutch police cars.

What they're actually selling for, very few change hands.

There's a guy in the Netherlands who has like 30 of these,

you know, and he, which is crazy.

So, he's kind of like the hunt brothers controlling the market.

And that's part of the reason why you see so few.

I think the last one I saw was in 2017 at Monterey.

There was one that went for 180,000.

Today, what a real SC Dutch,

which by the way, most of the Dutch police cars were SCs.

If an SC Dutch police car came up, maybe it's 250.

And so the guy who's going to spend, let's say,

let's just say that they really would take 150 for the car,

which if they got 150, they better run.

The guy who's got 150 grand,

maybe he'll spend another 100 to get an actual Dutch police car.

Like one with history.

Yeah, but that, that for that price is a fricking steal.

I'm surprised.

I'm not surprised the seller didn't take it, honestly.

I mean, David, they can't.

David, to do a restoration like that would cost 150 easy.

Two, without a doubt.

The question is, is how good was the car to start?

It was, you know, was there any rust and so on?

But they did a full, you know,

the car was the car was really nice car.

And they said that they stripped it.

They stripped it to the tub and repainted it.

I mean, they went all the way and did a really, really nice job.

I wonder why, I mean, is it just that it's very kind of novelty?

Is that the issue?

Why didn't it sell?

It could have just been, I mean, it was a bat and you have those auctions.

If they're too long, sometimes that kills them.

If they end on the wrong day, that kills them.

I mean, I think here's my opinion, because back in 2007,

we started building these tribute cars.

I think member Tim, I had to choose the Bari Martinez,

which one of them's coming back up for sale.

We did a Yeager Meister, we did a Lowen Brow.

In the end of the day, a livery car

is really narrows the buyers down.

It gets it so segmented and it's such a particular taste.

You know, if this car would have just,

oh, God, even if they would have just made,

I don't know if those are vinyl,

but if they just had it just white

and the problem with this is someone's,

I could see having all the money in the world

and hiring someone to do this.

It would be a blast.

But at the end of the day, if you have the money to do that,

how many times are you gonna be okay

with someone coming up to the show going,

is that a real Dutch police car?

It would be good to see.

Dude, you slap an Auto-Canter's kind of logo on the side of that,

or a Sunderworks logo on the side of that.

You drive it anywhere everyone's gonna look at it.

That is the ultimate promotional piece.

Super cool.

Especially for that price, I'm shocked that didn't sell.

That I bet you did will sell privately.

But I think in reality, if someone came to me with this

and they had an offer of 130, I think 130's the number,

and my philosophy that is you take

what it cost to build a car, not including the car,

and if it's done tastefully and done right,

it's typically worth 70% of what it cost to build it to that.

And that's if you do something right and tasteful.

So if they spent $184,000 building that car,

what is that, $184,000 times 70%, $128,800?

And by the way, it's just a ballpark kind of way of doing it,

but that math comes out pretty right most of the time.

You know what's funny is back when Casey was on

and we had four people, we'd get the shows done quicker,

and now it's just three of us,

and it's actually taking longer.

But you know what I'm thinking is that there's somebody right now

stuck on some God forsaken plane,

flying to some horrible place where it's cold,

and so grateful that we're still the yammering on,

listening on their earbuds, so grateful

they don't have to actually engage with the fact

they're stuck in an airport in Minneapolis, Minnesota,

or something.

So do you guys want to go to segment six,

or do you guys want to, I don't know what your schedules are like?

I mean, I'm fine, but do you want to,

are we doing another show as a sit for the year?

This is it for the year.

I need some time off, come on.

I mean, I love you guys, but I've looked at you enough this year.

I mean, the segment, the last segment was sort of,

you want to do it next year?

Yeah, why don't we do what we're going to do next year next year?

Okay, do you want to review any of these?

That's fine, make sense.

I was thinking that too.

Do you want to go over any of these listener emails or comments

that we didn't, yeah, I mean, I can read some really quickly.

I put them in the notes.

Let me do it.

We don't know what Paul's picked yet for the,

we didn't pick Paul, we didn't get into the win.

All right, well, first of all, you guys,

you guys picked.

Nice job, David, catching on that.

Go ahead and well, we can't leave the,

we can't leave the audience hanging here for sure.

Now, I'm voting for the police guard.

No question, no question.

That's a unique car.

That's very cool.

The P is basically the way you have to take out the fact

that you see something might be overvalued undervalued

because value doesn't matter.

It's a gift that I can't return.

When I'm done with it, I have to give back.

There's no, it's just you have a ton of it.

So that's got to be because you've got the 944 turbo

in the same livery you have to have the other car.

That's without question, end of story, I win.

If I wasn't trying, if I wasn't trying to get back at you

for sort of making fun of the fact

that I'd be driving around, you know,

with Ricky Martin and what,

not your little comment from 10 minutes ago,

I would have given you the better choices,

the priority, but now I'm going with David.

I don't want to put you in the Dutch police car

and you cannot sell it and you cannot return it.

Merry Christmas, happy Christmas.

Honestly, I don't lose because I love them both.

But I would pick personally the priority

just because it's different and the only way

I'm going to get one now is someone gives it to me

because I, you would take the priority

over his 991.1 GT3.

I don't believe you.

Oh, for sure.

You know why?

I just don't want, I want a manual.

That's it.

If he, if, if magically a 991.2 winged manual

was 130, you pick that.

I'd probably pick that.

What's the price of, what's the price of between a manual

and the PDK?

50 grand.

At least.

What would a cost can say right now, probably a 75?

The PDK3, that too is 200 easy every all day long.

So what would a cost convert?

Maybe this is a side business for you, David.

A PDK 991.1 into a manual that wouldn't even want to,

I wouldn't even want to try.

It's not like the Ferrari swaps.

I mean, it just the, just the, just the electronics,

you have to deal with it.

It's a lot of vehicles, too many things that have to talk

to one another in the car.

It would be stupid money.

It wouldn't make sense to do copy.

All right.

Do you guys have any of these?

We had a look.

I need to say, if you have not subscribed to the newsletter,

please do so.

We are turning out a lot of content in an addition to the things

you heard on the podcast.

Make sure you just go to fullthrawltalk.com or click the link below.

And if you want to comment or give us some suggestions on show ideas,

we obviously take a lot of inspiration from your feedback.

You can message us over on our Instagram.

Or you can just, frankly, when you're subscribed to the newsletter,

if you just hit reply, we get those replies.

And that's the easiest way to communicate, especially if you want to write something

long and overly critical about Kramer, for example,

I mean, go for it and just send us back the feedback that way.

But was there any like, we have so many nice sweet comments about people

really appreciating the fact that we are staying true to our nerddom

with regards to some of these really finite topics.

Was there anything else that you guys had jumped out that we should

maybe acknowledge as far as comments?

I definitely have one that was related to listening to one of our episodes

back on December 3rd.

And in fact, this, I think, will end up building a car with this gentleman.

So this could be the first wholethrawl talk bill we're going to do.

And we kind of started on this at the beginning, maybe before we started recording.

But well, John H.

Over the past month while researching the perfect Porsche to require,

I came across your company on YouTube.

Since then, I have also listened to fullthrawl talk podcasts.

It was the December 3rd episode when the conversation turned building a fullthrawl

outrod, which inspired this email.

I fell in love with Porsche 911s as a child when my favorite hot wheels car

was a yellow 911 presumably a Carrera RS due to the ductile spoiler.

Ever since then, I've admired 911 primarily for their design.

When I got engaged, I made sure to remind my future wife that someday

I would own a 911.

Later in life, I was fortunate to purchase a 996 Carrera followed by a 991 Carrera S.

Unfortunately, while I still appreciate the 911s,

the later models don't appeal to me as much as the early long herd versions,

especially those with a ductile.

And I'll leave it at that, but he on that particular episode,

we talked about this car, which we thought had sold as a bargain,

which was an S.C., a 911.

S.C. that had been backdated.

And I think that car sold for like $70,000 or something,

and he'd said, oh, I was really tracking that car.

And in my back and forth exchange with him subsequently,

I've told him he should have bought it because that's a hell of a buy.

$78,000.

But long story short, I think we're going to build a car with this gentleman,

John H. for from a 86 911 that I actually happen to have.

So we'll build a 32.

And I think we're going to try to build this thing under $150,000.

And I think we'll be able to do that, including the price of the car and the deal.

So we will be sure to follow along.

If it's going to be a true full throttle talk build.

Okay.

As there are design decisions to be made,

I think we should decide for him.

Or at least if you, if you present like, hey,

we have these three options, whether it be a color choice,

whether it be a mechanical modification,

he may say, I want this.

You may say you want this.

But none of you get to say until Tim and myself get to put a vote in, right?

I'll see if I can sell that into the hell.

He's going to have, you know, our expertise,

because the end of the day, we're going to help him also preserve value.

Like there's mods you know, you have clients that say, hey, I want to do this.

And you're sitting there going, don't do that.

That's in poor taste.

Yes, you want it.

And it's your car and you can do whatever you want.

At the end of the day, you're going to sell it and you're going to regret that decision.

And I think sometimes people think they know what cool is and they don't.

And it's not that I'm the purveyor of cool.

I just get to, I'm like that bear standing in the stream, catching salmon.

I'm just watching all of this fodder go by me.

People say it's cool and isn't.

And I just go, well, it seems like the masses like that.

And I still can't figure out with that blue car why people didn't think it was cool

because it got sold twice in the second time by a top seller.

And so the last the second time was that auction anchor

or was there something on that car that was disliked?

I couldn't find it.

Sometimes it's literally the day of the week, the auction closes.

That's true.

The eyeballs that you've got on it on that particular day.

And it just might have been it timed out in a way that, you know,

it was around Thanksgiving holiday or something along those lines.

But he does seem to have he likes mison blue.

So that's what that's a color.

That's a cool color.

And it would be a cool color for a back date.

So that was one of the colors he liked.

We haven't gotten into interior in so long.

If you can do my son, you got your square weave carpet.

And please don't sure a light oatmeal.

Do a dark one.

Also, my son's a 356 color.

That's the reason it's a Kramer saying that we have to be using the square weave.

But David only uses a square weave at wool square weave from Germany.

Anyway, I don't think any of your cards other than the silver net.

You had in some of the 80s cars.

He's always doing things right.

He doesn't need our suggestions with regards to interior.

And by the way, square weave is triple zero did a whole article on square weave carpet.

That I mean, like 20 pages on that frickin fabric.

And once you read that, you're converted.

It is the most amazing fabric and it's wool.

And there's a good reason why they stop doing it.

Because it was so frickin expensive.

Yeah, it is.

It's still, you know, $150 a yard.

And just the material you've got to you've got to have about seven or eight yards of material.

Just, you know, just the bulk material to then start cutting it.

I mean, you can do one of those for about three grand.

Where's the name?

Where's square weave name?

It's a few different.

There's a, yeah, definitely in Germany.

But there's, uh, there's some other guys here in the U.S.

There's another provider that makes a very similar carpet that isn't what I think of.

It's what I think of as traditional German square weave.

But it's also very nice, different color combinations and stuff.

So we have that available from a provider called apex leather,

who makes, uh, and brings that into the country somehow.

I've got to say this will be a cool thing to John.

John H, right?

So John H may be an age.

Take a hard look at the car that Kramer suggested.

Uh, where his car, the featured, uh, the, the Porsche car, the,

the heritage edition interior.

Take a look at that.

What do you think about modeling after that?

Because that blue and that interior would look really nice.

And I know for a fact that David could find some houndstooth or some,

well, how soon they would have to be that would have that we,

that blue woven in.

So that might be really beautiful.

Or just listen to David's just shuffle brown leather.

I would say shuffle brown leather or that blue.

I think we decided.

Yep.

His, his wife has given him the okay.

I got email from him this morning.

So I think we're going to make this thing happen and we will track it along

and, and follow with full throttle talk.

Let's do that every week.

Honestly, let's update photos.

Update photos.

Yeah, that's exciting.

Well, good.

Anything else you'd like to say before we close out the year?

Um, I'll just read one more comment.

Um, from John Callos out here.

He says greeting Gents.

Uh, I'm no car expert.

I love the hobby.

I've owned over 10 Porsches and prefer air cold.

I currently have a Benton built 6912 and 88 Carrera.

A 2018 Targa C4S in a 2020 Macon S.

I also have a 72 Bronco with a Mustang newer Mustang motor.

But I just can't stop thinking about other, another German cars, specifically the 7273 Arab BMW CSL or CSI 3.0.

Uh, they're called the E9 something that about that shape really draws me in and truth be told.

I would like, I would likely sell the 2018 if forced to make room.

Part of the joy for me is that each of these cars needs constant vigilance.

You never know for certain if everything's going to work out.

I really don't have 100% confidence in any of my older cars, even when they're fully sorted.

You just never know.

And for some reason, that attracts me because there's always something to do.

Newer cars are nice, but predictable.

And therefore, they're just isn't the same energy or motion.

That's my background.

I'm looking to expand into a 3.0 CS.

Do you think you guys might have this as a subject sometime?

About these particular and I'll make it really quick.

John don't do it.

Nine's they are, they are, they are the clickbait of the automotive world.

They're like, they're like a fly trap.

They're so frickin beautiful.

They are one of the most underwhelming things to drive.

Unless you put so much power into them and we sold an E46 swapped one and that power almost tore that frickin chassis apart.

Designed by Italians, the build quality is garbage.

They rust, they twist and the drive is underwhelming.

And if you think some of the cars you have are expensive to maintain,

you have a whole new world of hurt.

Please don't buy an E9 because if you do, I'm not selling it for you.

There's one on bat right now for it's one day left at $30,000.

I'm sure he's watching that one.

Did you have one of these for sale, Paul?

Didn't you recently?

We had the Holy Grail.

It was the early Alpina CSL.

Put up a picture.

Oh, I can't.

It's that quickly.

And it was, it was, it was as good as it get.

It was there.

911 RSR version.

I'll see if I can add a picture.

And as cool as it was and as amazing as it was.

And this was like a, you know, close to $300,000 car.

I drove it and it was nice.

But the whole time you're driving, you're going,

boy, this isn't as good as, here we go.

This isn't as good as what could be a 911 experience.

Well, but he's not, he's not lacking other cars to play with.

This isn't going to be his only toy.

And he's already expressed his willingness to put up with the old car,

paint and frustration.

And he is.

Right.

Those cars are shockingly gorgeous.

They are shockingly gorgeous.

And that's the problem is they're too pretty for their own good

because you're expectation.

It's been said.

They expect so much more.

And then they're like, that's it.

It's disappointed.

Disappointed.

They're set up to fail.

And you know what?

And it is, it is sad.

And by the way, this isn't just me from the few times I've sold a few.

I owned one.

I owned a really nice 3.0 for like three and a half years.

I did everything with it.

I took it on rallies.

I drove it to the mountains.

I tried to fall in love with that car because it was so pretty.

And in the end of the day, it just missed the mark.

And then you throw on top of that.

It's so hard to repair.

Parts are expensive.

They're just the kind of shit boxes.

I'm sorry to say.

And I know the E9 guys love them because they are so beautiful.

And Alpino one, maybe they sorted it out.

I mean, if I were going to buy one, it would be an Alpino one.

So this one I'm putting up as a backdrop was 90 or 2023 sold for 95 grand.

Yeah.

And picture.

And by the way, the best one that I sold was my friend.

We sold the one of a few cars we sold on bringer trailer.

My friend took an E4, basically took an E46 CSL European and transplanted all the mechanicals into a chamony white E9.

And that car was insane.

And I drove that in fury up the mountain.

And that was one of the most fun drives.

But he put over 300 grand into that car to build it.

Well, he didn't our guy here didn't give us a over and under as far as what you're thinking about price.

But you're saying from your partner.

Do you have an opinion he did?

He said 100 grand.

No, no.

But if he wants to, John, if you want to buy one of these, there's going to be 30, 40, 50, $80,000 cars that look good.

In the end, 100 grand is what you better plan on spending.

And you better get a good inspection and have someone really look at it.

So you're saying, I think you're saying for the money you would rather go for example, a long hood asked or something like that all day long.

What do you think, David?

I would agree with that.

But there's people buy cars for many, many reasons.

And the appearance of the car and the visual aesthetic of the car is one of the most important reasons for sure.

And an E9 is an absolutely gorgeous car.

And I rally with some of these cars.

I'm doing an event coming up in February down in Florida, where there'll be some unbelievably gorgeous, just stunning colored E9s.

And they, you know, it's what you want to do, but they're going to, they're running in the touring group.

They're just driving the car.

It's what's the use and purpose of this car for you, Paul.

That probably just wasn't enough to make that a rally, a fun rally car.

It's more of a touring car.

Even no, but even when you drive it around, it's everything.

The cost of ownership is really difficult, restoring them.

Please don't ever restore one.

And because they're so hard to restore, a lot of them are not restored well.

In the end of the day, I would rather have a cool 2002 BMW.

I would rather have an Alpina like yours, Tim.

Oh my gosh, an E12, which is the Ford or Bavaria version.

You see those hot-rotted by the way, an E12 drives so much better, you know, having a stiffer chassis with a B pillar.

I just think if you really want a cool vintage BMW, there are some great stuff from the 70s that you're missing out on.

What's the story with that 2002 car?

Cover your cameras so we can see that.

Holy shit, that's beautiful.

So this car was the hubris of two engineers who obviously had more time.

The engine, it is, they turned this 2002 into a 2002 turbo look.

It's got a three-liter engine from an X5 twin turboed and they made it a trans axle.

The transmission is in the rear of the car.

You drive this thing, it has got to be one of the most violent driving experiences.

We sold this car to a client of ours in Utah.

I think he still has it.

I'm going to try to find a picture of the underside because the amount of work they put into this car was insane.

So with David, what would you choose?

If you're our listener and you're thinking about that E9, given all that Paul has just said,

I'm holding my cards close to my chest right now, and that's something, you know, a box you wanted to check even despite the box.

I would do it.

I mean, I personally think that again, you know, it's you buy the car because you just think about the way you may get it and be disappointed.

But you buy it because you like the way it looks.

You like the idea of you behind the wheel.

It may not be the driving experience, but that's why we have in this gentleman clearly has a number of different cars.

So on this day, he's going to put these shoes on and on another day, he's going to put another set of shoes on that.

Now, this car that Paul is showing now, this 2002 is a phenomenal car, fantastic car.

The purpose built and looks looks wonderful.

But if I'm a guy that just wants an E9, find E9, why not?

So you guys might find this interesting, maybe not, maybe you will.

But did you know Robert Downey Jr. built a hot ride at E9 BMW E9?

No.

Yeah.

And this is out.

I'm trying to find it.

I have found it a long ago.

Was it a long?

And I don't think it was that long ago.

I mean, the last 10 years, he's super into cars.

I don't know, you know, I think he do some series where he converted a bunch of cars to electric.

He, I think that was Robert Downey Jr.

But he owns part of a company in California that's building electric cars, too.

I didn't explain it.

Broncos and whatnot.

So this one, this actually is 2020.

But this was an E9.

I'll put up a picture here in a second for the folks watching on YouTube.

And this A put in the 3.5 M5, you know, from the E34, the whole, the whole nine yards.

And the car is amazing.

And I'm going to go with David suggested, honestly, if you've got an itch that needs scratch,

join a lib once in your debt a real long time.

And if that's an experience you want to have, you know,

and he's already expressed his willingness to put up with the foibles of old cars, go for it.

That's what I would do.

Yeah.

Here's an idea, gentlemen.

If we keep going for another five minutes or 10 minutes, we could cut this thing into two sections

and have part A and part B and have something for the listeners to listen to around the Christmas holiday as well.

Right.

Yeah.

You know, we're part one and part two of the Christmas show here.

So well, I will tell you this.

At least we know for sure now that it wasn't Casey that was causing us to go on.

No, definitely not.

There's the Yammer from Costa Mesa.

I know.

We like the Yammer.

The Yammer is awesome.

Yeah.

I have a problem.

I mean, I have a problem.

Hi, my name's Paul.

Well, guys, we are going to call it a day.

And hopefully we're entertaining you.

Hopefully you have a wonderful Christmas Hanukkah, Kwanzaa.

People still celebrate Kwanzaa.

I don't know.

Anyway, have a wonderful holiday season.

And remember to subscribe to the newsletter.

If you've not yet done so full throttle talk dot com.

We will back.

We back the first to second week in January.

If again, feel free to communicate with us.

We love the feedback we're getting for all of you guys.

We're car nerds.

We're going to keep on focusing on what's important to all of you,

which is, you know, obviously important to all of us.

In the meantime of the fantastic day.

Happy holidays.

God bless you guys.

Happy holidays.

Thank you.

See you.

Full Throttle Christmas: One Car from Santa, GT3 Dreams & 2026 Resolutions

About this episode

Tucker 52

vintage German car museum

pre-war cars

Tucker 48

Talbot

Porsche 911

Cosmoline

bumper supports

torsion rigidity

odometer gears

RS

Porsche 356 GT

unicorn car

Wilhoid

turbo

numbers matching

formula three car

RYN Motors

three-cylinder engine

Volkswagen Golf GTI

Ferrari

Lamborghini

electric car

RS America

IMS bearing

bore scoring

Volkswagen Rabbit

Quattro

Auto-Canter

Sunderworks

PDK

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