Go Rallying With Your Friends — The Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep. 200

How are you? Oh, thanks. Except for we said different words, but yes. Same idea, does account idea, anyway. Hello. Conceptual

jinx. Welcome to the Car Magic Show. This week's episode covers like every other topic that we could

think of. Well, it's all about old cars. Okay. I did we talk about new cars. We certainly didn't mention,

or we're not going to, sorry, we we're not going to mention the Z4M coupe that's behind us. That's

no relevance to anything. It's just there. It's a pain. It's parked. It's a very unusual color.

Did you just sneeze? Gizantite. C-Pangs, C-Pang?

Bronze. That's a place. It's a bronze metallic. Beautiful. Presumably. Beautiful color combo.

This car's got a brown interior, doesn't it?

Peasy hot. Okay, well, that's all we are saying about that. That's all we're doing. Okay, bye.

It's wave to it. Hello. This is the 200th episode of the Car Magic Show.

Congratulations on your 200th birthday. Thank you.

Don't look a day over.

440. I will hit you with this car engine logo.

We will talk about we did a rally and we are going to talk about car week because it's also

car week right now and we're going to talk about tariffs and we're going to talk about small

laws and the car market generally and that's probably about it. That's probably more

important than we get in a very curmudgeonly at the end of this episode.

Yes, you know, that's what you're here for. Just sunshine and rainbows.

Or the opposite of that. Raining, raining sunbows.

Yeah, no rainbows, just rain. All right, let's hop right into it.

Okay, with one clap.

I thought that one was very good. Be very good. Be be minus.

I'll grade you on a car. Be plus. Thank you.

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Demand a better tire. Demand Fredestine. Can you believe

in, oh, no, that's, no, do you believe in magic?

God, we really should start the episode. We should not sing in school.

We can hire someone to sing a dancing for us.

We next week will sing. How do you know this?

You'll be ESPN. There is a crystal ball in that closet. I can pull it out.

No, I was just trying to kick the can on singing.

To next week. I ain't not singing now.

Cans are people too. Okay, do you believe we've done 200 of these?

I guess. I don't know. What is 200?

It's twice 100. It's more horsepower than most of my cars have.

That's for sure. What about kilowatts?

Definitely. The only thing that might come close to be the CSI.

BMW definitely has more than 200 kilowatts because 200 kilowatts is

68, 268 horsepower. That's it?

113. Yeah, 268 horsepower. It doesn't have more than that.

You've got the wheels anyway. Yeah, 200.

200 episodes of the Carmage and Show.

And we've now completed 10 Pacific coast rallies with our friends.

Yes. We habitually do this, I guess. Now, yeah, 10, that's a habit, right?

Or is that an addiction? What's the terminology for that?

I don't know. In any case, yeah.

But we've done one in Europe, which we're not counting towards that.

Continental instead of Pacific.

Right. So yeah, this was 400. I don't know how you did more miles than I did.

I came from farther, but it wasn't that much further.

Either way, maybe you're not. My odometer could be suspect.

Automistic. Yeah, 400 and something miles in, I was in Beatrice the E3325i.

You were in your new to you? Yeah, 1982 Porsche 911 SC with a 3.2 liter

Kura engine swap. High compression European motor. This was perhaps somewhat foolish,

but I flew down to San Diego, looked at the car, agreed to buy it, paid the guy.

And then I had a truck bring it up and the truck arrived at 11 a.m. Friday.

And my target was to leave it noon on Friday on the rally. And so the guy, when I was down

there buying it, I was like, oh, how long has it since you put the engine in?

And he was like, oh, 400 miles. And I was like, he was like, yeah, you should probably have

a truck to him. And I was like, oh, why? And that's why you went to the truck to him.

And he was like, well, you know, it doesn't have air conditioning or heat. And you know,

it's kind of, it's got a short fifth gear in it. It's going to be loud. And then later on,

I asked this was, he said that before I asked him how many miles had happened since the engine

was swapped. And then when I got home, I was like, I just bought this car. And he was like, maybe

he didn't want me to drive it home because it had been 400 miles since the engine was installed.

Yeah. So that was maybe a bit foolish. I did what did I do to the car before leaving.

I checked the tire pressures and the oil level. And that was it.

Okay, that is one more thing than I did to be at risk. And it wasn't, I mean, okay,

in fairness, it hasn't been just 400 miles since I did an oil change in that car.

It did since engine swap in the car. Right. And it's a car that you knew and it has proven

itself on a number of. I mean, Pacific. Yes. So I did check the tire pressure. However,

I completely forgot that I should probably put the race seat back in the car.

And I totally forgot that I should put the race brakes back in the car. And it wasn't until

day one. So I just did one section one section one that I'm like, going uphill. Yeah,

it's literally following you and you're new to you, Portia, going, I'm just going to take it

really easy. You don't know how to do that. And I was like, why the, oh, fuck, because there was one

other rally that we did where I showed up in my wagon with Bosch quiet cast ceramic pads on it

that I had for the street that I hated. But they don't dust. And I was like, I don't really,

I hate cleaning wheels. Let me just try these pads out. And we made it three corners and I had to

abort because the pedal was on the floor. They did not work. I mean, I'm standing on the pedal,

nothing worked. So I had to just go to the back of the group and just behave like a Christian.

These were jurid pads that are on the car now. And while they did smell,

quite substantially, one of our friends said he gets me the whole way up the mountain.

But they never gave out. So they did work. But next time, definitely putting the hawk

that brake pads on it. And even the seat because the, the race seat does make a big difference,

especially when you're kind of drifting. I mean, when you accidentally, I wasn't ever on purpose

drifting this car. But when the rear end steps out, when you don't have to concentrate on holding

yourself in position, it's a lot easier to catch the slide. And so the first time I had to catch

a slide, I was like, Oh God, I missed the seats. Yeah. But I did have car play. And so I did not have

a radio. I did not have heat. I did not have air conditioning. We didn't need heat. It was hot.

Yes, did not need hot heat. But I don't have air conditioning either. Yeah. So we did,

yeah, one of our friends is moving to Australia. And he requested a rally before departing. So that

was a bummer to see him leave, but send him off in style. Yes. So yeah, that was you basically,

you take this car off the truck, check the tire pressure, check the oil, and just hit the road.

Yeah. And this was, you know, I mentioned this car in some episodes ago because I've been threatening

to sell the 964. And this was the baptism by fire to figure out whether I could truly come to terms

with selling the 964 based on how this car does on the rally because the 964 is the tool that I

use for rallying. And this is, you know, those cars, no ABS, the brakes are much worse because it's

older. And the 964 has 993 turbo brakes, which are meant for a car with 400 horsepower. And so,

you know, the question was, is the new car going new old car, new, new older car going to be able to

do rally duty? And I think the answer to that was yes, it did a good job of it. It's not quite as

good as the 964 at this kind of stuff. Definitely miss the brakes. I mean, the brakes on this were

fine, but they are very wooden and there's no ABS. And maybe it needs rotors because there was some,

you know, just they're not as confident as mine. The brakes feel like a modern cars brakes in the

964. Like they're so, so good. And this car is not quite as fluid at bumpy roads at speed as the

964. The 964 is really good at that. It's got KW V3 coil overs, which are much better than I

learned 993 RS over a bumpy road because I did an A, B with that car with a 993 RS on a bumpy road.

So, it's better and the gearbox. This my car has the new car has a 915, which is the gearbox

that everyone shits on. Where's the use from 1972 to 1986 in 911's? A soup kitchen, Jeff.

Yes, definitely. It's kind of vague. This one has a wevo shifter, which helps, but it doesn't help

the synchros. And these synchros need to be deliberately used. And it's like an old car,

truly, in the sense that sometimes various gears will be, it's like you can't select a gear

reliably. Like sometimes it goes in comfortably, and other times it's like you can't have that gear

right now. I'm sorry. Please try again later, which is not what you want when you're trying to

set up for a corner and be leaving the corner in second gear, for example. So, it's just more of an

old car. It's more work to go the same speed, I would say, as you would apologize a couple times.

Yeah, I'm sorry. I felt like I was slow. I think I was just working harder. Yeah, I think you were

working hard. You were not, I mean, you know, you set the pace for the entire rally, didn't you?

I think you led the entire time. As I, I don't think I ever heard a squeal from your tires.

Yeah. That's my felt like I was going slow. Well, but I, you probably were hearing a lot of

squeal from mine. Yeah. So I had those. So, oh, you had Fredestine and Spritz Pluses on them.

And I got to say they're fucking perfect. Like, yeah, I now have three sets of these. I'm just

got a set for the E30 wagon. So, right, this episode is happening. This episode is going

live, actually, right the day before car week, Monterey car week starts. And Fredestine asked to

borrow my 325 I wagon for the, their tire display at Motorlux, which is another

tragedy on property. And this is one of the kickoff events at the Jet Center. And it's

Rosie Boogey and I'll be listening. And so for some reason, they invited me. So I have to be on

my best behavior. And I think we're going to be recording a podcast live from Motorlux, which

would be super fun. But I'm going to be broadcast live. It's not going to be broadcast live.

It'll be recorded live. But it will be, we're going to record it before the people show up.

So that we can hobnob when the, when the great beautiful people arrive. And we're not

annoying anyone. But so yeah. So Fredestine just said another set of these

print pluses. And I'm actually really happy about that because they did exactly what I want them

to do on a car like that, which is, and this, by the way, Beatrice's race suspension on it,

like I have three degrees of negative camber up front with big bars and whatever. They gripped

more than well enough. They will sing right at the limit and not ever make a peep before that.

And then the grip level was just absurd. But not so much that it overwhelms the chassis.

And not so much that I'd overwhelm sight lines. I did when I got home, did a back road,

like a midnight back road blast in the eGolf. Strangely, I just was going to a friend's house,

and it was just one of these roads that is nuts by me. And that car, I now have the summer,

I feel like this is an episode sponsored by Fredestine. I have the All-Track pros on it, which are

their high performance summer. Oh my God. I also sort of alluded to, I put 034 Motorsport

camber caster control arms on the eGolf and aligned it with Max negative camber, which is like

1.5. The fucking grip level on this car is now so stupid that I can't slide around a corner.

I can't see around the corner long enough on a right, on a left, on a left band, I kind of can.

But the grip level is so fucking dumb that I kept thinking afterwards like, why don't I take this

car on a rally? Oh, it'll have 12 miles of range. It's too easy to go way too fast. Those tires

are genuinely impressing the hell out of me. I think range ones, they might be even worse than

the public sport for us as well. Oopsies. But you know, look, I can't have it all. I'm having a blast

with them, but that was reminder like, oh, okay, hold on, modern car, modern suspension,

and you know, a way more aggressive tire can now do that. But I never once thought, oh, I,

gee, I wish I had more grip than those print pluses. Yeah. Yeah, I recently sold the 190E that I

used to own, which was the Italian rally car, which caused so many problems, which were subsequently

resolved. And then I sold it to some guy, and then he kept it for a little while, and then he

bought a CLK black series. So he sold the 190 cars, where so I sold the 194 him. Anyway, I drove

that car again. We did a driving video at speed, and it confirmed the sprint pluses function.

They really do. Yeah. I thought, for sure, you want to leave me for dead. But I kind of like that

you maybe were going a little bit slower than your 93 because there was never a time I couldn't max

attack catch you. And that in the 993 to do that, and I said, sorry, by the time I would catch you,

I would be, I would often get high heart rate alerts on my phone, like, or are you working out alerts

on my phone on my watch? And that's probably not a good sign, but it would be 10 tens breaking,

10 tens corner, and obviously mad at the whole time. So maybe you were a little bit slower than

the new Porsche, but good luck with anyone like, you know, we come up to other people on these roads

at 40, 50 mile an hour closing speeds, because they're doing literal 15, 20 miles an hour.

Yeah, literally 15. And you realize, like, okay, we don't need to be going any faster than this

anyway. Not having ABS, and I don't know, the Torschen bar is a little more archaic suspension.

It just is, it's more work for sure to go similar speed. But Carr acquitted itself beautifully,

not a single issue. So I'm a happy camper with it. That was pretty cool. For something that some guy

made basically shortly before I bought it. I think this is the first rally ever been on that I didn't

break anything. Headlight. No, it was already working from last one. That's correct. I mean, I've told

my total headlight count is like front lighting count between fog lights and high beams and low beams

is probably five or six. So I rally, I almost always break one. I've broken two windshields.

And yeah, that's why I have the car. But I have no problem tailgating you. So it's my own fault.

But yeah, that car is magic. And like an E30 is just a magical car on a back road.

Did you drive anything else? I did. I drove the FDRX7 that you did the revolution.

That I did a revolution video on. And my comment in my notes from the Revelations video,

which is a quick drive up the road and back, was it's not often I get out of a Revelations drive

and want to continue driving. I want to do a whole rally in this car. And I went back and looked at my

notes. It is just magical. Like chassis wise, like steering is not the most communicative in the

world. But the the effort build curve is beautiful. The way the turbo responds on that car is like

unlike naturally aspirated cars, it's just such a linear build of power. The engine sounded great.

Driving position is a little weird because the steering was a little low. But when you combine that

with the and just the gorgeousness of that car, that was a lovely experience. For you,

for him some distress, just general, I mean, he owns exclusively Japanese cars and the RX7,

the FD3 is notoriously, you know, it's more Italian, Italian in spirit than I would say most

Japanese cars are. And so at one point, we were like, where is he? Where hasn't he turned up? And he's

like, I'm overheating. And then we like call him and he's like, the needle moved. It got towards

warm. And we're like, oh my goodness, tell me your Japanese car owner without telling me your

Japanese car owner because the needle moved. And so he was like deeply distressed by that. We're all

like, whatever, as long as it wasn't above 250 degrees, it's probably okay. It mean

well, it's 102 degrees out. He's got the air conditioning on. Yeah, we're like, maybe

mountain. Yeah, going up a very good section of road that we specifically sought out that I'm glad

we added to the proceedings. But yeah, so maybe turn off your air conditioning. So that car actually

did fine. It did great. Yeah. I drove a 300 SL 24 manuals, the dog like SL on a hill climb section

and my first app, especially after being a Beatrice, which is, you know, so buttoned down was

holy shit. Where are these motions coming from? The car just heaves and bobs and it's just moving

around in a perfectly controlled way. Yes. What I will say is it was not to my surprise as much

fun as the C126 that we had last time. And the part of it is it had same tires on it that you had

on the Porsche of these Conti extreme contacts, I think huge grip. But clearly it's there's an

alignment issue characteristic with this car, where the inside tire is just screaming the whole

way around every corner. And I think it's just got tow out because of the way there's so much

caster on the front suspension. And so you have the inside tire is just grabbing for traction to try

to help the front end turn. And I just it was just painful to just and so that was a little bit

uncomfortable. And then the seats like that plus grip level plus the seats being not all that

supportive. I didn't slide it around corners the way that I did in the SEC and the SEC. I'm sorry

you missed the large barge charge because it was just absolutely fucking idea too. I know well

you said you could come. So we planned it and then you bailed out later on. I mean, I wouldn't have

planned it without your availability. But we had the R129 and the C1 we had two R129s and the C1

26 on that rally. And you know minimum curb rate weight of 4,000 was a target. I think we were

more like 3500 is the minimum curb weight for attendees. But that was really fun. And I think the

CSI is too competent. You need something more wayward. Yeah, CSI but I really need to do a rally in

that car. I just I have to lead the whole way. I contemplated bringing on this rally. And in fact

that morning I had the 308. So the Ferrari, the BMW and and Beatrice at the house. And I did not

make up my mind until I started loading my stuff into Beatrice. I really want to take the CSI but

I know it's going to stone chip the shit out of the front of that car. And I don't want to lead.

I you know the roads better than I do. You're a better leader than I am. I love for breaks. So I'm

constantly flashing brake lights. I so I feel terrible for the person behind me. I just yeah, I'd

much rather I enjoy it more when I follow you. I think you're happy to lead. And so I'd made

a choice. But I need to go and just do a weekend of back roads in that car because it's yeah,

I think it you will have a great time. I'm curious to know you know you've you've gone a little bit

at you know at speed in that car, but not like a long 20 or 30 minutes set uninterrupted section.

I'm curious to know what your findings are afterwards. But to me it felt like a big E36 M3.

That's exactly what it felt like to me. It was just so competent. And it's an E36 M3 without

the snap or power oversteer. It was just a much more settled. It's still power oversteered everywhere.

If you asked it to, but it longer wheelbase. I don't know if it's a longer wheelbase. It's a

more sophisticated suspension design. I think so. But either way, it was just beautifully balanced. It

was just so good. And the engine sounds great at high revs. And yeah, anyway, I wouldn't I will do

a fuel bill though. Well, that was what was carrying me on the Ferrari. Yeah, because you were nuts.

You did a rally. So by the way, Rally in the Ferrari. Yes, we've done so 10 Pacific rallies,

one Europe, and then how many driving well awesome? So driving well awesome is

another big rally. Well, it's like a 100 cars. 100 cars? Yeah, maybe 80. Probably done five of them.

Yeah, at least. Yeah. And you did one. The year that I did mine in the 236, you did in the Ferrari.

That was the very first one, I think. That was that was nothing. Yeah, I can't imagine what you

spent fuel. Yeah, I mean, the car gets 10 miles a gallon. Maybe I do remember being like,

sort of anxious about fuels, not making it to the next fuel stop, which was the RX seven in our case.

The RX seven won the fuel economy challenge. Oh, that's right. We did that doing that.

Yeah, we did the final numbers. Well, winning means you got the worst fuel economy. Everyone was

sort of hanging out in the 20s, right? My Porsche, yeah, and the GTI were all in the 20s.

The R129, despite being a 6-cylinder, was not very economical. That was kind of like a 16,

but it's also with CIS. That was like a 16 mile per gallon. Do you have the numbers?

Yeah, the numbers. I'm not going to start with the RX seven. So we had a Z3, which I also drove.

So Z3, 2.8i, which was 2.8? Yeah, it was a cable throttle 2.8, lovely car. It was actually

quite nice to hustle around. Z3 did a 21.3. Your Porsche did 19.29.

I did 19.7 out of the E30. Miata reads 27.6, to which I call absolute bullshit. That had to include

400 miles of hypermiling on the way there. GTI, the Mark V GTI, was 20.6.

Everyone was right around that 20 mark, except the Miata. And then the 300 SL comes in at 15.9,

which as the smallest, almost naturally aspirated engine there, was pretty remarkable.

And then the RX seven, 12.6. And he made a very clear, made it very clear to everyone. He never

used full throttle, because he was a little bit scared. It wasn't running perfectly right,

under full. So he's like, I never went over half throttle. He's still got 12.5 miles for gallon.

The 560 SEC, I think, is the all-time Victor, which was around 10.6 miles per gallon.

I'm bad if you went and looked at the Ferrari. It was because the Ferrari gets 10,

they'll have an insurer. Regular driving. That might have been in the eights.

You have to take the Mure on one, even if it's like a 26 mile run, because you'll get three

miles per gallon out of it. Yeah, the Mure does around five and a half miles per gallon,

real world. Ecculous. So that was a ton of fun. We did a rally. Everyone should do rallies

with your friends. Yeah. Rented Airbnb with everyone. Had a hot tub. It was just kind of a great

place to cook dinner and hang out. Yeah, the DWA rallies, I enjoyed, but this intimacy of the

scale and the fact that you can go into places and towns and have lunch and places and stuff like

that. It's, I was six of us. We were seven, I think. Seven people in seven cars. So I usually

like a double occupancy car so that people can sort of facilitate car trades a little more.

That's the weird thing that you sort of do that I have never occurred to me as like

car swap. Like, you know, with Beatrice, I'm fine with it, but I would really be upset

if someone wrecked that car. I have a lot of work into it and time. But everyone is,

oh, I drove the 911 too. I mean, I did drive quite a bit of cars, but it's a little bit weird at

first. And then I realize everyone's trustworthy and these cars are... Yeah, but something might

happen. And you just have to, it could happen at any time for any reason. But what does it say?

I crashed my rover. I didn't realize all this time that Jason's, Jason sent me.com

shirt says I crashed my rover on the back. When it was just like some kind of

scarlet letter. It's a scarlet letter. Well, I was making the shirt. I didn't know what

I was going to do with this. And so I put that on the back and it was my scarlet letter moment.

But that was what was going through my mind for the whole rally is like I just had an insurance

claim. I don't like, I'm scared now to have another one. It was 30 years between claims. But still,

like, you know, freaked out about it. You're just getting in your head. And so when I made the

shirt, I did that. I'm like, I'm just going to walk around with a scarlet letter. I'm like,

I crashed my rover because I'm an idiot. What was the total bill? I mean, I sent you

an Apple 100 bucks. It was like 400 bucks. So you think about that was two days plus gas,

plus, you know, tire wear and whatever else. But so total actual spend 500 bucks for

two full days. We all left Friday night and got home Sunday night. Yeah, you can't buy that kind of.

Yeah. I mean, you can. It's exactly $500. You know, elsewhere. I mean, like, you know,

a track day maybe, but that's, you know, there are times when I, you know, frustrated it.

There was a clump of Harley Davidson's in front of us going walking speed.

I thought you were going to blow a gasket. And I mean, mentally and not, yeah, you were going to

kill someone. You're horned, by the way, carries. At one point, I just pulled over and I'm like,

I can't deal with this fucking these inbred morons anymore. And I pulled over and for about 48 minutes,

I can hear this fanfare echoing through the hills of you just on your horn for these idiots.

Yeah. Yes. I don't know how you do 12 to 15 miles an hour in a 55 zone for half an hour at a time

and not realize that there's, you know, basically half of the West Coast behind you honking flashing lights

and demanding your pullover. Anyway. Yep. But it happened. But it happens. So yeah. So we did that.

We did that. What else have we done? Well, what's coming up is car week. Yes, so car week is happening

now. So this episode goes live Monday the 11th and so Tuesday basically is the sort of soft start

of car week. This year, the grassroots motorsports kickoff has been canceled, which is a shame

because that was a sort of bring whatever you got, sort of hang out on the street. I judged

typically every year, both officially and unofficially making fun of this course. That was always a

lovely way to start the event because it's not formal and it's like everyone just, you know,

arrive and hang out. So this year without, in the absence of that, the big kickoff is motor locks.

And so this happens at tickets are probably still available. This is on the Wednesday.

The evening 7 p.m. ish tickets are deer. Like everything related to car week. Yeah. Well, that was

what again, six, 50 or 700 bucks or something. I mean, that's why I like the kickoff thing because

it was free entry. Basically just walk up. But 700 bucks is like all you can drink, all you can eat,

all you can party. There's an auction going on at there too. Brought our auctions there. Brought

euro is that night. I mean, car week is expensive. That's just the way it is. But a hell of a curated

group. So I think this year, I think we're probably allowed to talk about this. Yeah. I mean,

I don't, I assume they've, they've publicized this. But I do know there's a for a set entire

display, but that's a sponsor. But there's a soko display. So there'll be a ton of Mercedes

Soko cars will each have one there. And I think we'll probably talk about them or talk about Soko

generally at the event. Yeah. That's when they, when they asked for us to do a podcast, like you guys

want to do a live podcast there. The, you know, my initial reaction is maybe that's not the best

thing for the audience because of the background noise. But if we can do it earlier, fine. And then

when I thought, all right, so we, if we're going to have a bunch of Soko cars, I've just finished a

book that you gave me actually reading a book to be clear. I'm sorry. Yes. I just finished eating a

book. Derrick is scrumptious, a little catch up on it, reading a book on Soko. And I have a

revelation. So obviously I'm doing a revelations episode on R129 and I might as well admit that now.

But also a little bit of a revelation about Soko that we should talk about on that. Okay. I look

forward to consuming it because I own the book, but haven't read it. And you have now read it. Oh,

okay. Well, then you better do some research because I don't want to outrank you. Okay. Well,

I'll add your own book. You can borrow it back. Thank you.

Interesting. I mean, so yeah, so we'll be doing that. And then from the rest of Car Week is just,

I'm sure nuts for you, right? Yeah. We've got cars in various shows, Quail. We've got a couple cars

and some going to Pebble, some of them will be competing against each other in the same class,

which is these are customer cars or yes, customer cars that you guys are shepherding down or

bringing and potentially handling the judging on also, which is, you know, a fun adventure.

Does that mean handling the judges? Or I hope that's not what it means.

It works. No, I mean, they'll ask you about the car's history and, you know, show me around the car,

tell me why it should be winning an award and also do make started and make sure the

original washers work and all that shit. So the whole judging process, show me the tools and

all that stuff. I am the tool. Yep. That's me. Very cool. What else we're doing? So yeah,

we've got lots of cars and people and, you know, you're just trying to see everybody and you always,

if you just can't and I mean, it's every every year. I leave that event just completely

zonked. Yeah. It's fatiguing. It's fatiguing. But every year, like last year, I met the,

I last year every, I leave every year and say I'm not doing it. I'm not coming back next year

because it was just too much and it's frankly a little bit too commercial. I think we've talked

about this in the past where I think the Amelia is a much better event to spectate because it's

singular and controlled and manageable, right? Now there's Radwood across the street and there's

Amelia and that works. And even Villedesta, which I was there on the rain. I only went the one

time, like I could cry. It was the most beautiful place I've ever seen for the 13 seconds that

sun came out. But it was even beautiful when it was raining. But the way that works is there is

the exorbitant ticket prices to get into the actual show and there's a very, very curated small

amount of cars. And you get a description and what's his name? The guy writes all the books

who talk so elegantly and gorgeous. He does the announcement. Simon Kitson. Simon Kitson does his

the MC and they bring every single car up and he tells you about it because the guy's

fucking walking in psychopedia and it's just so elegant and it's gorgeous and it's fancy.

And then the next day, they bring all of the cars down to Villedesta, which is a much more

bigger open space. And it's like 10 Euro to get in or something. Something entirely reasonable.

And there are thousands of people and they're all well dressed and you get to see the cars

and on this big field, they really do that right because it's not this week of endless

parties and whatever. Events and auctions and races and also press launches like come and see the

new Accura ZD, whatever. No, that's not why we're here. But of course, every time a car company gets

wind of the fact that they're a media there and be that they're rich clientele, potential clientele

there, they're going to start showing up. Yeah, it just feels odd to have stuff like pedestrian cars

there. You know, it's one thing maybe if Singer is announcing some new car or something or yeah,

okay, maybe Porsche or Ferrari or Bentley, these sort of. But but Kio, you know, I was really upset

when you were in K. I came there and I thought, okay, now the organizers of the event have sold out.

Right. I was just, I was really upset about that. And nothing against Kio,

hell of a product, but this is not the time and place to do that. And so every year, I've sort of

been frustrated and said, I'm not going back. I'm not going back because it's just it's too much.

But then something happens where I meet someone who has something amazing. And last year that I was

at Bonham's. I was at one of the auctions and there were two or three Chazetta Marauder,

or Chazetta V16T's. And I was standing there looking at one of these cars just like,

couldn't believe it was blue and it was gorgeous. And there was some dude that was standing there

next to me. And he's like, you know, he we sort of exchange a glance like, wow, look at this thing.

And we started talking about the car and this guy knew what it was. And then we started talking,

it's the guy who wrote the book, Brian Wicklam. And so we start talking. And I'm like, yeah, I think

I'm going to try to get one for a revelations episode. And he's like, oh, I love what you do.

I'm like, okay, that's great. He knows the show. And I said, there's apparently a book. And like,

the book has been like, like pushed under the rug because of a pending lawsuit and defamation

and blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, man, I'd kill to get my hands on it. And he's like,

I wrote the book. And I was like, you what? And he's like, I'm the guy that wrote the book. And

I'm like, you're Brian. And he was like, yeah, get the fuck out. All right. You want to help?

Like, I'll help you with with the book. You help me with it. It was amazing. And it's this sort of

stuff that only happens that fucking car week. Yeah. So, you know, I'll be there. You are

professionally obligated to attend. Right. More so than I am the launch of the new, you know,

Hyundai Bellisate, for example, example, for example, which is happening, you know, this weekend

in Sonoma. And I want to go and I want to hang out with the Hyundai people and learn all about it.

But I think, you know, for the purposes of the things that come into the studio and that we do

videos on, this is probably more important. But it's a hell of a week long commitment. Yes.

Especially because I won't be flying back a couple of days earlier or flying out and driving

my new car back from Pacific Northwest. So Jason has, you just did it. Don't judge me. No.

I just saw the look on your face. I'm okay. This is a judgment free zone. Bullshit.

Have you heard what we say about other people? Okay. Jason, I'm very happy for you for buying

another car. You are. That's now. This is a non bullshit free zone. Do you really mean that?

Yeah. I support the unbridled consumption of unnecessary automobiles. It is a core

to my livelihood. As soon as I even micro producers laughing at that, that incredible display of

bullshit. That's so completely unconvincing. The second you drive, my soon-to-be-swapped,

hopefully, VR6. I mean, I love VR6 and I had really enjoyed your cabbie. So I'm sure it'll be

VR6 is the modified VR6. No, it was the carado silver carado. That's the only one you've ever driven?

Yes. Get the fuck out. Oh, you're in for a treat. I look forward to it. Okay. All right. Anyway,

so car week will be completely insane. What else? You're buying and I can talk about some

interesting dynamics. Actually, so there's one of the defining characteristics of car week.

For me, at least it's auctions, lots of car trading hands. I think it's going to be an interesting

year because the market's doing some funny stuff. It's very erratic right now. Yeah, the top

because the government is erratic right now? Yeah, that's definitely a factor. So we did an

episode about tariffs when they were first happening in the springtime and then cars got a

reprieve at the last minute, 25 years, or older, were allowed to stay at two and a half percent,

which was the historic rate. And cars were always two and a half percent regardless of age

and where they were coming from. Unless they were trucks. All that stuff. Yeah, that's why I said

cars. And not cars are trucks are a subset of cars. Trucks and cars. Okay. So that was lovely

when it was two and a half percent. But then everything went to anything. Everything under 25

years old in April went to 25 percent. And then old cars were allowed to stay at two and a half

percent. And that was the state of things since April. And then now there's like a change that

seems to be brewing and isn't that widely publicized. But it seems like now there's 10 percent added

on top of that for old cars. And so now the effective rate coming into the United States is 12.5 percent.

I don't know how official this is versus actually the importers are charging it in the event

that people actually get charged. So like I've talked to some people who have imported cars

after April. And they're now getting a subsequent tax bill for an additional 10 percent of the

value of the car after they already cleared customs and paid duties out. Yeah. So okay, there's

if there is one thing that destroys businesses, it's a lack of clarity and being able to plan.

Yeah. And when you get a 10 percent tax bill on something that you thought already cleared

customs, I'm sorry, your government is fucked. And so we're sitting on pins and needles because

we brought in a car that was north of half a million dollars at two and a half percent. And it's

now sold and we made our commission and everyone's happy. And we, you know, it was worth the trouble

and I flew my ass to the Netherlands, actually an airplane did that. And for the rest of you also.

Yeah, that's correct. Yes. And so I inspected the car and went through the trouble of importing it

and evaluating it. It was a 993-queer RS and it was a car that, you know, needs to be verified

in a whole bunch of ways because it looks like a regular 911 or it's a car that you could fake.

And so the diligence is super important with cars like that. And I did all the

diligence and confirmed it was real and confirmed that the extraordinary options that it had.

We're all like original to the car and all the diligence that you do to make sure that you're

buying an asset that is worth what you think it is. And then you go through the trouble imported

and then we airfraid it over and made all the presentation and cleaned it up and sold it and all that

stuff. And so if we get a bill for 10 percent of the value of the car, which is going to be an

excess of $50,000, then all of our margin basically goes away. So that would be very unwelcome to

discovery, but that's exactly what's happening to a bunch of people who have imported cars

since April. This is unbelievable. And this is one of our, we were talking with one of our friends

on the rally who was looking at buying a car in Canada and bringing it in. And that additional 10

percent was the difference between I am definitely buying this car and I think I'm going to have

to walk away from it. And then here's, so here's for this from you and then talks to an

importer, talks to a customer guy, talks to all these other people who say, no, no, that's not

actually happening. So, I mean, look, government is put duties on that we can discuss all of that

shit and have. But for fuck's sake, make it clear. So people know what to expect. I mean,

if 50,000 tax bill is the difference between making money versus not.

Vible business versus bankruptcy, right? I mean, you know, and historically import business has

been a substantial part of our business and there's a bunch of like, it's frustrating because all

the contacts overseas that I deal with are presenting me with cars where if it were not for the

new duty landscape, it would make sense to bring them over and there would be a pretty healthy

margin. And then I'm like, I'm sorry, I just can't be a buyer right now. I don't think there's

money here or the risk is too great or I don't really know what's going to happen. Well, I was going

to say, right. So, how much of it is the, not knowing versus the actual 10 percent? So, one of the

cars was under 25 years old. It was a US car that had been exported that we were hoping to

re-import and that car would come in now at 25% whereas it would have 27.5%. Sorry,

an additional 25% on top of the existing 2.5. So, that would come in at 27.5% and that's a non-starter.

It would have historically been 2.5% and it would have made all the sense in the world to bring

over super fricking cool car that I'm really bummed that we aren't able to transact.

Can you pass that risk on to the buyer and say, you know, like if you're,

if you're doing, I guess if you're doing a commissioned sale or someone is looking for a car

and you find it and it goes directly in their name, if you do get a supplemental tax bill as

the importer record, you could go after that buyer and say, hey, you guys owe us this money back.

Sure. It depends who imported. If we imported it as ourselves, as our OTS, as our dealer,

then probably not, but if they imported it in their name, then they would be on the hook for it.

So, I wonder if that's something you're just going to have to put in your purchase contract

until the government figures out. Yeah, but everyone is, I mean, for that car,

it'd be 27.5%. And the person just says, well, fuck that. I'm not going to bring the car in.

And then for these other cars, which are now effectively, you just, the importer that I work with

is just charging 12.5% now as opposed to 2.5. And then like, we'll see whether you, they come

after you or not for the additional 10%. He's just charging 12.5% when you come in now for

everything that's over 25 years. And just keeping the government keeps it. Oh, so he's

actually remitting that to the government, which you know, they'll never refund. Correct.

That's fucked up. It is. Yeah. So we're not importing cars right now, which was, you know,

historically, I think it accounted for probably a third of our top line revenue in last year.

This is happening in the new car world too. There was a big, huge push in June to get EVs out

the door because there was, there was a feeling that on July 1, the $7500 EV tax credit was going

to go away for those that qualified for it. And so there were shit ton of incentives and the car

companies were pushing stuff out the door and then oops, it didn't happen. Then it didn't look

like. And so that everybody sales in July cratered cratered. And now, you know, now it looks like

it's happening one of September or something else like that. Nobody knows. And you can't plan a

business to this, right? This is a long tail thing that requires months of advanced planning

to make business decisions. And if you don't know what the landscape is going to look like at that

time, you can't make the right decision for your business, which I promise you does not enhance

the well-being of the economy. No. So what's happening? So the cars, I guess all of the cars that are

will be for auction during Pebble Beach Week or Monterey Car Week are already in the country.

Correct. But what, so what is this doing in the values of cars that are already here?

Who early to say? It is too early to say. I think it's not, it's, it's definitely, I mean,

it just adds uncertainty and people are maybe not in a buying mood as a result of it because

they just don't know what's going to happen. Some people are, sure, they're going to be like,

oh, let me buy now while the number is known and just get something across the line. And so maybe

that artificially inflates things in the short term. And then if we can truly can't get a supply of

things coming in in the long term, then it, you know, will sustain higher values for cars that are

already here, you know, which is a shame. I think that hypothetically, that's probably going to

depress values overseas because a substantial portion of these high end cars. And I'm just talking

about stuff like Diablo Gigi is a very interesting example because of those cars only just turn 25.

And so a lot of them were flowing into the United States and they only made 80 of them. So a lot

is a relative term. But as, you know, we went from having 0% of the world production in the United

States into having, you know, how many of those things are in the United States now? Is it 20%

of the world's production is maybe now in the United States and that flow is going to continue to

happen and it was going to balance out and it was going to make the values of those cars go up.

And if you, you know, say, well, it's the only six-liter rear-wheel drive Diablo they made.

And they made 80 of them that phrase should make the car be worth a lot of money. And that was maybe

that was in the process of unfolding. And you know, maybe that appreciation is enough to sustain

especially with a 27.5% duty slapped on top that it will continue to happen because the supply

is low enough and there aren't enough here. And the ones that are here will get expensive enough

to sustain that. So like, okay, maybe that's going to happen. So there's all this stuff where it's like,

I have no idea what's going to happen. Well, then once you remove the ability for that car to travel

around the world, into the US, then you, then I start to have to think about what about reciprocal

tariffs that are coming on the other side. So we'll then, you know, European people putting tariffs

on cars that are coming back in there. Historically, that has existed for cars, especially less than

30 years old. But will they do any sort of retaliatory tariffs? I guess it's not really hurting them,

their business, their new business. So it's not in this, there won't be retaliatory tariffs in the

same way that there are for new cars. But like, are we wind up in a situation where the cars just

wind up being non-transferable between continents? Yeah, which has historically been very luxurious

for American buyers. And that's probably the biggest shame for us. And I think I've talked about

this before about how in Switzerland, the car is more sailable than you had was more sailable in

the United States than it was across the border in Italy because it was outside of the EU and was

transacting elsewhere outside of the EU. And so these advantages that we historically, as Americans

have enjoyed, are now gone from the collector car space unless the markets reshuffle and the

values of these cars go up by 27.5%, 25%, which potentially could happen. But we are in a,

yeah, we're in a state of uncertainty for sure. And so yes, cars potentially, I think, in Monterey

that are already here, especially big cars that are, there's not a large supply of in the United

States and for which there's a lot of demand, stuff like F50s is the first car for me that comes

to mind in addition to the example I offered of Diablo GTs, but these sort of Radwood era cars

that are the, that people who have really deep pockets are going to be buying right now, regardless.

You know, it's going, and I think it's all together going to stop the lower end stuff like

Fiat Pandas and Audi RS 2s and Honda Beats and stuff like that. And there are entire businesses

that are devoted to bringing in JDM cars. And you know, I don't, I guess they're going to figure it out.

Maybe 25% of 10 grand is 12, 12, 5 instead of 10. So maybe it can be absorbed because the absolute

number of dollars is not that much. And you might argue that for rich guys with F50s, you know, what's

another million dollars. Yeah, look at quarter dollars. Right. A portion of their overall wealth

maybe it's not. But at the end of the day, in absolute terms, it's still a million dollars.

And I would say yeah, there are a lot of people in this, and this, I know a lot of car collectors

who won't sell cars that they own because they don't want to pay capital gains tax on it. And they

rather just hold on to it, then pay the government $700,000, $200,000, whatever else. And yeah,

okay, my reaction is always, oh, poor you. But at the end of the day, you are still writing a

check to the government for several hundred thousand dollars. And that pains everyone. It doesn't

matter how wealthy you are. Yeah, I find that a whole situation to be. Yeah, so I'm interested to

see what happens this week with the auctions because I think that the big stuff that's here already

is probably going to do pretty strongly. And that the caveat on that is going to be

demographically still relevant stuff. You know, we often talk about demographic shift,

and I see it continue to see a shift away for softening of like vintage 1950s and 60s cars.

For the most part, those cars are continuing to soften, so I don't expect anything wild to happen

on that front. But for these 80s, 90s, and I was going to say early 2000s cars, I think there's

going to be some activity that's been surprising results. And then for people who are more sensitive

to the economic environment who are just like, I don't know what's going to happen and I need to

be conservative. I think those cars are really hurting, you know, cars that are sub 100,000 dollars,

or maybe that number is 200,000 dollars. You know, those cars, I think, will unless truly extraordinary

and unrepeatable, I think those cars will generally be fairly like meh and inconsistent. Some really

high points, especially if unrepeatable. You know, 200 mile, 560 SLs, or, you know, when am I going

to see another one of those, the Holy Grail spec this or that, I think those cars can still do

magical things, but like if it's like, I could easily find another, I was going to say Testeroso,

but the Testeroso market is hot right now. But, you know, car that is reasonably easy to find

another one that's comparable to, you know, I think that those are not by and large, like on

on mass going to do anything insane. And California was just, just dealt another blow with the whole

jet, the Leno's law thing. So they keep saying, it's keep getting trimmed away until there's nothing

left. There's, there's really no benefit to anyone at this point. And there is. So the, the way

that the law passed will pass or will go into effect is there is now a 35 year rolling exemption

starting 2027, I think for 35 year old cars that have historical plates on it will be exempt from

smog, but it's a rolling exemption starting in 2027 back to 1976 cars. And it will only go up

to 1981. I thought it was 85. Well, in any, whatever it is, but it's not, I mean, we'll all be

dead by the time these cars are, well, they're going to fix it in 1985. So we're basically getting

another 10 years. But it's going to take us 12 more years to get there. That's the problem.

You know, the whole, Jay didn't, Leonard didn't write the law. This was something he was brought into

by a congresswoman who was rightly identified in him as a good advocate. Absolutely. You know,

there were some, some details on this bill that didn't quite make sense. The idea that you had to

have classic car insurance, there exists no such thing that was just, that was a concession made to

a bunch of other legislators who are just, there's one in particular who's based out of, I think,

Oakland, who just was just fighting tooth and nail against it. Like you guys are going to destroy

the environment. And I have a friend who called me and had made a pleaded a case to her and

want up getting a note back from someone who worked for, for the California Air Resources Board,

who wanted to ask him some additional questions because his point on this is he's got a bunch

of late 70s, early 80s cars that have terrible, outdated smog equipment on them and they run

like shit. And he has, so in truth, he modifies them every two years back to their original

terrible setup so that they can pass smog. My dad used to do this, yeah.

Right. Only 20 years ago. Go home. 30 years ago. And pull all that shit back off because it makes

the car run like shit. And what his point was, you're stopping me from putting modern catalytic

converters on it and modern engine management and actually making this car fucking cleaner.

And by the way, I'm not some car guy heathen who wants everyone to be breathing cancerous air.

I grew up here and remember the smog days as a kid when I was not allowed to walk to school because

the air was so terrible. I want to clean her air. But actually what you're doing to me is forcing

me to use antiquated shit and pollute more. So please pass this. And, you know, I wish this

woman would put her head, pull her head out of her ass and realize it's not about people in,

you know, 1980s pickup trucks who were driving them 40,000 miles a year, which is the example

that kept coming up as it like a gardener truck or something like that. This is about people

who are preserving older cars. And by the way, the cleaner you make the car, the more power it's

going to make. And we all want one thing, which is better if you look on to be more power.

That's not one thing, but yes. Okay. We want more efficiency. And more efficiency means both

of those things. And so it's just a stupid archaic system that's just trying to outlaw cars that

I don't think these people realize are not going to be outlawed. Car enthusiasts are not going away.

You can't legislate us out of existence. And certainly not in this manner. They're fucking trying.

But it's not going to work. And so everyone needs to work together a little bit. That was just

just a kick in the dick, frankly, to have this dysfunctional government come in and say,

all right, we understand you guys are trying to help a collector. It's an industry of people.

You make your money in this business. There's so many jobs that are created and sustained through

through the love of classic cars. These are not being driven every day. Just help us preserve

these pieces of history and the legislation just missing the plot completely and making this

idiotic overly complicated. Of course, it's government, right?

It's a microcosm for every other damn thing that happens. God, we sound like lights to the

government. Yeah. And government margins. Anyway, on that uplifting note, shall we?

I think let's go to Car Week. Go to Car Week. Okay, let's get out of here. Those of you who are

attending, please enjoy everyone else, I guess consume and experience FOMO.

And we'll do, like, obviously, we'll do a wrap-up after Car Week and all of your learnings at auction

and we'll see whether I called it correctly or not. What randos I meet and cool cars that we both

get to drive this year. All right, cool. Thanks for joining us for this week's episode of Car

Munchen. Happy Car Week to all who celebrate. Chat soon. See you next week.

Also 200 episodes. There you have it. There's a whole back catalogue if you'd like to,

if you have nothing to do. Sometimes people write in to me and say like, I am watching every

single episode and continuously right now. I'm making it what I'm just like you're insane.

I can't even listen to us. You know. Bye.

Go Rallying With Your Friends — The Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott — Ep. 200

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