Good As New!

Welcome to the Avon's Podcast. I'm Dan. I'm Nick. Hi. Hi. I haven't seen you in days. I know. It's been a long time.

Dan and I tried to... We tried to go snow-wheeling. Snow-wheeling. It didn't work. No, there was no snow.

We had to drive all the way up outside of Cliellem just to find an empty parking lot to try our new trail.

Trail turn assist in both the vehicles. Well, and yours is the new feature. You unlocked it with four-scan.

Also, always wake up your wife before doing that. That was a little bit of a...

She's like, what's going on?

It was fun, though. Yeah.

We couldn't find snow. Any place we could find snow had been already been blocked off for snow-mobiling, and yes,

we could have driven over the block offs easily. Yes. Yeah, and Tinkham Road is closed, like not just blocked, like actually officially closed.

Okay, this is an opinion, not an option. I want to know why.

Yeah, I want to go ride down it. Like it wasn't...

I feel like the drop of the monkeys that went in and driving would be kind of fun,

but I'm wondering if those floods, absolutely. Because if you've been on Tinkham,

there's the two cement culverts that go through the road that's closer to North Bend than it is to the past,

and they're meant for that. And they have reshaped all that and put a ton of rock there that probably shouldn't have been moved by

that much water, but who knows? Yeah, it was a lot of water, and that river did get up on that road.

If anybody that's listening to this has gone and parked their car and hiked in on Tinkham and knows what's going on,

let us know. Yeah, it's blocking our fun. Yeah.

Also, Dan and I had the distinct pleasure of emceeing the Aston Martin event, which was a lot of fun.

That was really fun. We haven't done it in a long time. We were both kind of like,

oh, this is fun. Like, it was fun to get out and kind of do it and learn something.

You know, both of the speakers were wonderful, very knowledgeable, had a different perspective on Aston Martin.

I learned a lot. The best question out of everybody was asked by, I think, a six-year-old,

which was the question about the wings and the light, which was awesome.

She was very adorable. Yes. I'm glad she opened that up.

You know, I was thinking about that. What do you think of Aston as a brand? Like, honestly?

Like, where do you feel like it fits? Like, what kind of brand is it?

Because it was really, what they opened the show with was the question of what words would you describe Aston Martin?

And they said elegant and classy and...

I mean, I've always said that with Lamborghinis, you buy the bright colors to show off.

And I feel like Aston, you don't buy a bright color, but you're still showing off a little bit.

It's a distinguished brand. It shows that you're successful, wealthy.

Yeah. For me, it's sort of like the Rolex of cars to me, where it's like,

people who really know, really appreciate them, even if it's not a car they would buy.

I don't think I've ever met anybody who's been like, eh, I don't like Aston Martin's.

They're just not something they would buy, maybe, but everybody likes them.

They'll look good. They'll sound good.

They're not reliable in my book.

No. They are. Obviously, they're British.

And I think really anything British has its issues.

That's coming from a British owner.

Yeah. I mean, I think they're better.

It was interesting, like, back in the, when do you want to say that these,

all these car companies started bringing out their SUVs?

So like Lamborghini, Rolls-Royce, Bentley, things like that.

And Aston. 2019, 2018, the late 20 teens.

And I feel like they're with their DBX, they were way behind.

I think they're kind of leading now.

Their latest one is really, you know, they really care about the market.

Like it's always been like with Lamborghini, if your husband had an

Aventador, you had a Urus and things like that.

And I think Aston Martin was pushed into that pressure of creating the DBX,

which is now a wonderful car. You and I drove like the first model.

I had many, many concerns, obviously, but a nice car.

But it didn't have a lot of drivability.

It was the weirdest way to ever shift in the world.

They're behind in tech. They didn't have CarPlay or anything like that,

which is like that's not the kind of brand you can do that with.

But now they do and everybody's getting rid of CarPlay.

So, you know, right.

And everybody still wants it.

So I don't know when it's going to last.

I mean, if somebody looked at me and gave me the keys,

that that was it vanquished, that 2025 was a vanquish or vantish

or what was the big one behind the DB4 that was apparently the V12.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just a vanquish.

It's the vanquish, but it was a V12 vanquish.

How huge they had gotten. It's a big car now.

It is wide. It is long.

I mean, it is a super sedan, obviously, but it's wow.

That's a really big car.

Yeah, I don't know. I like Aston Martin.

I have always liked Aston Martin. We laughed.

We talked about it.

Everybody brought it up in the fact that so many people were there.

We're introduced to Aston Martin by James Bond.

You were talking about the fact that you were introduced to Aston

Martin by the Cannibal Run. Roger Moore, Roger Moore,

who never drove an Aston Martin, is James Bond, which is even ironic.

But like, you know, my dad and I were having conversations afterwards

because he's like, well, he's like, that might be a fun car.

And I said, I said, it's just it's not what you're going to be doing.

I don't see a lot of people with Aston's out carving up the roads.

Now, we have friends that have done it.

But a lot of times it's a luxury car.

I see that as a high powered CEO driving that to the to the office every day.

I'm not seeing a lot of people beating the crap.

HMFIC car. Yes.

That's it. Kind of like a BMW i8 for people with more money.

Exactly. And more taste.

But I mean, I like I like the brand, but I don't know

in my mind, non-reliability is the first thing that pops in my mind.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's

it's sort of a retirement brand for me.

And that's a car I would have as a it's a I was telling Sean

about this was always talking about the experience.

So I think it's sort of a it's a fourth car.

It's never it wouldn't be my first car, my second car,

even my third car, but it might be my fourth car.

And I don't think I'll ever get there.

Five hundred thousand dollars, though.

Yeah, like that was.

And she will say, I did look into the lease deals.

They're doing some greatly stuff with that.

Like, this is not a sales thing, but I was like, because,

like I said, my dad's in the market for something new.

And that would be he said that might be a stretch for me,

because I don't think it also might be so nice.

I wouldn't want to drive it.

And I said, that defeats the purpose of buying a car.

But yeah, it's it's a really nice car.

I just don't know if I spend the money.

Yeah, I mean, for the way you and I drive

and what we like to do.

No, I mean, that would have sucked in the snow this weekend.

But it was fun to see in the R8 and made it a ruin.

All the with all the brands with all the models that they had,

they gathered Shabby Shabby did a wonderful job.

By the way, she knocked out of the park.

Absolutely. I think this is one of her big.

Her this was her first big event that she did with Avance

and she made us proud.

So yeah, yeah.

No, it was a big event.

It's got a lot of history for her

because she obviously she worked at Park Place

and she really loves the brand being there.

So like for her, it was a you could tell it was a special

moment for her.

And I'm glad that I'm glad we did.

I'm glad she was happy with what we did.

I'm seeing the event like it's always.

She hired the right monkeys.

Yeah, I'm glad to contribute to her success.

But it was her show and it is her success.

I want to make sure we point that out.

We're really happy for her and proud of her in Shabby.

I'm this personal message I am I have she looked at me

and she goes, Yeah, we know each other.

I used to be Park Place at the Auto Salon

when you came in to wash your Subaru.

And I felt so bad that I did not recognize her from there

because usually I'm like that.

But I remember I would go in there

and I would just sort of sit down and wash my car

and I did not look around and I apologize.

And she did a wonderful job.

I want the minute she brought it up.

I was like, Oh, yes, I do remember that.

Yeah, when I usually go in there,

I'm usually like drop off the car,

get to work, like open the last stop.

And it's all I'm doing.

So I mean, so look around you surround surrounding people.

Yeah, yeah.

But yeah, shout out to all, you know,

our friends at Park Place.

We have a long history of and friendship with Park Place

and they have a special place with us,

the whole the family there and the new owners.

So glad to see that partnership is still going strong.

It was fun to be there.

It's a cool event.

You missed out and you weren't there coffee shop.

The coffee that came in,

they guys, they found a mobile coffee shop.

But it was really cool.

So yeah, good coffee and they, you know,

they had free coffee, too.

But it was like, it was great.

I would have paid for it free.

I was going to pay for it.

And they said, No, it's complimentary.

I was like, Oh, wow.

Okay. Yeah.

So it's going to say nice things to me.

Okay. Yeah.

Compliment. Oh, that's complimenting coffee.

I'm sorry.

All right.

Carter out of a tip of the week.

This is funny.

So we joke about this and they can I share

the same brain a lot of the time

because we both had the same topic then

we did not discuss it ahead of time at all.

And we both have the same topic for today's show.

And it wasn't because of something we saw.

So I don't know where this came from, but.

I mean, so if you aren't,

if you're on social media, you go to YouTube

and look up like the Pierce County Sheriff.

They have a person that works for them,

who's one of their higher ups, Carly,

who does a weekly weekend review.

And she talks about the top things that have happened.

And usually they have, they have a show

where they fall around their deputies,

but they were, they pulled over this car that,

I mean, should not have been on the road.

Like we talk about, you know,

making sure your cars is reliable.

This car shouldn't be on the road.

The obstructed review bumper is falling off.

Had a salvage title.

Yeah.

And I just wrote down the notes.

I was like, we should talk about this.

And Dan's like, yeah, I've got that on the notes already.

So.

Yeah, totally funny.

So a salvage title, let's be clear.

A salvage title means a vehicle was declared

a total loss, accident, flood theft or whatever reason.

The damage is worth,

damage exceeds the value of the car.

And it's not suitable or legal to drive.

A rebuilt title means the same vehicle was repaired.

It passed a state inspection

and has a state inspection sticker

and is now legal to register and drive.

It still carries the total loss history.

It still has a branded title.

That's another word for it.

And you may not be able to insure it.

So make sure you call your insurance company

ahead of time if you're considering a car like this.

There are many good reasons to buy a rebuilt title car.

And that's what I wanna talk about

is a big topic of the show today too.

Cause I've got a lot of experience with this.

Not with owning them, but working on them,

seeing rebuilt title cars come into the body shop.

Some of them are repaired fine.

There's a lot of reasons to total a car

that makes sense on paper,

where like I said, the value of the repairs

exceeds the value of the car.

And so it gets declared a total loss

and that damage might be minor in some cars.

So if you think of like an older luxury car,

this is where this comes into play all the time.

An Audi S8, perfect example.

They don't hold their value, an A even worse.

And it doesn't take a lot to total them

because parts like headlights,

which you're not gonna find aftermarket options on,

you're gonna find in parts like headlights,

when you get hail damage on the roof,

hail damage is another one of the total cars.

These cars are perfectly drivable.

They're totally fine.

And somebody might say, I'm just gonna go to a junkyard,

find a blemished part,

or they're not gonna worry about the hail damage

on the roof.

I'm not gonna worry about the 110 as they still work.

They just dinged up and nobody wants to repair that roof.

Maybe they got hit in the rear

and you did some pretty significant paint damage,

but the body is straight and a body shop

will tell you that very easily.

Not just by looking at it,

they'll need to put them on a rack,

but there's a lot of good reasons to be like,

oh, this car is total.

Folks who I can faith on was a big one.

Aluminum trunk.

Any of those things could have no residual value.

And as soon as they were hitting the rear,

they're like total loss

because nobody's repairing the trunk.

So it was easy to replace it for like 20 grand.

Now to back up a little bit.

The insurance company who insured the car at the time

decides if it's totaled or not, correct?

Your insurance declared a total loss.

And then they report that to the state.

The state puts that title under there, okay?

Yes.

And so you as a DIY enthusiast

or someone who knows how to repair cars,

or you just don't care because the paint's damaged

and you're like, I'm just gonna drive this thing around

because it's like, whatever, this is my commuter.

I got to drive 50 miles each way

and shitty weather and bad traffic.

I don't care if it's got hail damage.

Great.

And I would assume that'd be pretty easy.

If you buy that car,

you take it to the state patrol,

they're gonna go, oh, it's hail damage,

but still drives like that.

Yeah, here's your inspection sticker.

Like it wasn't an accident, things like that.

Even flood damage can be fine in some rare cases.

If it sits into the floorboards

and it's just sitting at the carpet level,

people are gonna be like,

some insurance companies will immediately

call it a total loss.

Even if it runs and drives, just fine.

Maybe it never touched the electrical.

On some older SUVs, the electrical is placed,

Land Cruisers is what my experience is with.

The water line is super high, even inside the car.

They're meant to go really deep underwater,

but you could get the seats wet,

you could get the carpet wet,

and it could have sat there for three days,

which is, think of like Florida.

Three days, three days later,

that place, the thing is covered in mold.

And salt.

And salt and everything else.

But you could wash it off.

Somebody said like, hey, I washed it off.

Here's all the pictures.

And this is the key part.

If you're buying a total loss vehicle,

or a rebuilt title vehicle,

if they don't have pictures, just don't.

I'm just telling you blanket statement right now.

Unless you know that person really well,

and I mean, you know this person

and they don't owe you money well,

you don't want that car.

People with total loss rebuilt titles

who are on the up and up,

who are running a good business,

who are being authentic about those repairs

are very happy to show you photos

because they know what they're doing.

They know the market there

and they know what they're dealing with.

The rest of those people are shady as shit.

There is a stereotype that has never failed me in this.

You're either dealing with like people selling drugs,

quite literally a lot of them

and they're flipping for easy cash.

Probably out of that car.

Or there are certain bands of criminals

who sell these cars in mass

and they do it by title washing

where they take the bin off another car,

put it on that car.

It gets a complicated process.

We talked about that.

Part by part like just facts,

it's just numbers.

They're very well controlled criminal organizations.

They will play every fake game under the sun.

They will have somebody selling the cars

who may be faking a handicap,

seen that many times,

or saying, you know,

oh, they're in a poor place and they need help.

No, they're not.

This is a professional job.

This is how they do it.

This is how they wash it.

Like this is how they get you.

This is how they flip many vehicles at a time.

You can, I pulled cars apart

that are held together by seam sealer.

Literally, I can pull them apart.

You can push them apart by hand.

I've seen so many different things

in the body shop industry.

I have always said, I guess,

if they don't have photos front to back

and you should always Google LaVin

because sometimes you just find them online

from when they buy them from auction or whatever.

But if they don't have all those photos

with the repairs in progress, just walk away.

It's not worth it.

They're scamming you like 1% of the time.

Maybe they're not the rest of the time they are.

They've been doing this long time

and seeing this long time.

They're still doing it the same way.

It's really, it's a really old business.

And you can get those cars and get really screwed.

And rebuilding cars is a whole new industry now.

I mean, there's a whole, look at the people

like Tavaresh, Matt Armstrong, people like that.

That it's a huge thing and it can be done.

And those guys are doing it right,

which they're obviously documenting it.

But there's a lot of work in the fact

that you can think, oh, I can repair this

for $10,000 and then $40,000 in you're going,

this car's not worth 10.

And yeah, if you're looking at one,

if you are looking at one,

and they have the photos, take it to a body shop.

Don't take it to a mechanic, take it to a body shop.

It's very rare that you find a car

that's been totaled from engine damage

unless something literally got slammed

into the oil pan on the highway.

That does happen, but it's very obvious when that happens.

And it usually does a lot more damage in the process.

And usually they just replace the engine.

Like that's...

Yeah, you can still total it out.

Very easily with that, very easily with that.

But most of the time it's body damage.

And man, I've seen some cars,

even in the photos, things don't look a little,

they always just look a little off.

Like that panel's got a gap that's a little interesting.

And then the paint's just a little off.

Or you can get...

I mean, there's guys that are doing

really good blend jobs in parking lots now.

Painting has come a long way.

And AI's not helping, just so we're clear.

Yeah, exactly.

AI photos, that was another scandal

that was on, bring a trailer to that actually.

Oh, you're talking about the Cadillac.

Yeah, I watched Matt talk about that.

Yeah, so, but you look at these cars,

like if you've got a panel that's misaligned,

that means everything under is also misaligned.

It's not the panel that's misaligned.

It's the underpinnings that are making it out of alignment.

The chances are the panel is straight

because it's really cheap to buy a cheap

aftermarket body panels.

So I'm not fat, I'm just misaligned.

That's right.

Okay, good.

Yeah, okay.

So anyway, I've just, I've seen the horror stories.

I've seen them happen to people firsthand, often, actually.

It's usually just plain not worth it

unless you really know what you're doing.

And we're speaking about buying a car

that has been rebuilt.

Rebuild.

Rebuilding yourself.

Doing it yourself, I mean, if you're going to do it,

one, take photos so that if you sell in the future,

people can see that, if you're going to have it redone.

There are plenty of people that buy

old vintage cars that are totaled and redo them

and they're immaculate because it's frame off.

Yep, yeah.

Yeah, in fact, that's not uncommon at all.

But even rebuilding yourself,

that's the next topic I want to talk about.

It's actually kind of fun.

There are some things you don't want to get in

over your head with that require special tooling

that you cannot afford.

Frame straightening stuff.

The old shade tree mechanic way does work

if you are good with math.

Literally, you have to be good with math and physics

and that is, you tie, come along to a tree,

tie the other side to the frame,

you weld on a tab, you pull here.

That's fine.

It's not that difficult to do.

I've seen it done even in the body shop business.

So we tie it to this post and just pull the frame rail out.

But how they're doing it now though

is you're running full electronic rams

all the way around and they're straightening

the whole car all at once using lasers.

The computer's literally like taking the measurements

for them and they're hitting the button.

And they just, I mean,

they're telling them where to weld on the tabs.

It's telling, I mean, I'm not saying it's not no skill.

It's a very high skill to be able to do this.

But it's that matter of checking all the measurements

and making sure everything's straight

so that you know it's safe.

And there's also metal fatigue.

You can over pull frame rails, things like that.

And that doesn't mean frame rails like trucks.

I mean, unibody cars have front rails out of the front

holding the engine in, things like that.

And rear rails that hold the floor pan in for the trunk.

But a lot of that stuff is when it comes out of,

besides like major frame repairs is what I'm trying to say,

it's pretty fun to do.

And you can learn a lot by doing it on how your car works,

especially if you're working on something

that's been in really high mass production.

So any kind of commuter car

you can find aftermarket parts for.

And while you may not want that on a car

that you're trying to restore,

don't think of rebuilding as restoring.

A total car you're not usually going to restore.

You're going to rebuild.

And that means you're getting it pretty good,

probably 90% of the way there,

maybe more than enough for most people.

And that's fine.

You've got, like I was talking about in a previous show,

you can get by with things like aftermarket headlights.

They're gonna be plastic versus glass.

They're not gonna last as long,

but they'll do the job.

They're safe.

They're DOT approved.

It's not total trash.

It's not as good.

You should try and find junkyard parts if you can,

but a lot of this stuff from China

is a quarter, a fifth of the cost, even less.

Well, and I do want to talk to that.

And this is something that I've seen,

I've come across too with people

that are rebuilding supercars, things like that.

A lot of companies will not sell you stock parts.

Yeah.

If you don't know right now,

there is a big discussion

between Matt Armstrong and Bugatti

because they're trying to rebuild

a Bugatti Peersport in Florida

without sending it to Bugatti for price things like that.

And Bugatti is refusing to sell them parts

because they're not being able to certify

what the car, those parts are going on,

things like that.

I've seen this with Porsche.

I mean, the whole brand, I think Volkswagen brand

is where it comes down to.

I've seen it with Lamborghini

because you're not a body shop.

And therefore, a lot of times

they will not sell you these parts.

So this is something you need to think about.

If you're going to Copart

and you're seeing a wrecked RA

and you're thinking,

I can put band of body panels

and I can put things like that.

You may run into a situation

where Audi or somebody won't sell you those parts.

Now again, like Dan said,

you can go out and find parts.

You will be able to find things,

but be aware of this.

Yeah, there are a few things

that are just too hard to get

or they're just not being made anymore.

But if you want to learn,

this is your excuse to use a new 3D printer

and figure out how to do stuff like that for new brackets.

This is a great time to do that.

If you want to learn that hammer and dolly set,

and yes, the one from Harbor Freight works just fine.

We use them all the time.

This is a great way to learn how to shape metal

and teach or learn a new skill on a cheap car.

Rebuild cars, a car that's running

and driving just fine,

but looks like it was hit on both sides

from an accident.

I mean, not front and rear, but side to side.

You can get pretty creative with it.

It may not ever be straight,

but you can color match paint from the factory.

You can get it going and drive it just fine and safely.

And something that you're willing to drive

doesn't mean it's safe for the road.

That's where this whole thing brought up.

You have to have working headlights.

You have to have a rear window that's clear

and you can see out of it.

You have to have working tail lights and things like that.

Like going into Copart,

and I've seen people do it,

buy a car and they drive it home

because it's totaled on,

you still have to fix the car

and make sure that it's road worthy.

Or you will receive some nasty, nasty tickets.

Yeah, you can get a negligent driving ticket for that too.

Absolutely.

You can skirt it with a trip permit

if it's in really good condition.

Getting it home.

Getting it home, but even then, that's not a good idea.

You don't know the mechanical of that car inside and out,

but I don't want to discourage people

from looking at it as an option

because I know it's the only option

for a lot of people on really tight budgets.

Been there, done that.

But just know that you,

it's usually going to end up costing you more,

a lot more in the long,

it can be so much in the long run

where you just, you're just out the money.

And I've seen that happen too

and that's what I wanted to bring this up for is,

you can be looking at cars that look great,

that look like, I mean, like I,

when I said this was a professional industry,

it's a professional crime industry

of flipping these cars,

making them look good enough to sell

and then you as the buyer getting screwed

when you go get,

when you find out the inspection sticker is fake,

those are really easy to fake now,

believe it or not, I mean,

printing has come a long way.

And you can, you know,

anybody with a really high grade printer

and some adhesive backing.

So explain that to me,

when after you get that car recertified,

when would somebody want to see that sticker?

Like you were pulled over or?

When you try and insure it.

It's going to come up with salvage

and not rebuilt. Got it, okay.

Because it goes into the state,

it goes into the registry

and on the registration as a rebuilt title,

not a salvage title.

And if you go to register it

and you know,

John Smith who you met and bought it from

all of a sudden doesn't exist

and his number is no longer connected

and where you met him at this,

doesn't live there,

you have no recourse

because you have a,

you just have a chunk of metal that nobody wants.

So the insurance company is going to want to see that,

that sticker you get from the state

after you rebuild it.

Yep. Okay.

Yeah. And you go to the state patrol,

state patrol, those are the inspections here

and say you've rebuilt it.

I've been through some of those inspections

for things that were modified on my car

that they didn't like.

Yeah. Yeah.

Motorcycles, same thing,

you go to the same department.

If you ever license play,

or put a license plate on a dirt bike,

that could be converted over same place.

No, I was talking about like getting tent tickets

and having to go in and prove that it's been done.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So I don't know.

I think there's a good place for rebuilt title cars.

It's less waste

and I like to see cars back on the road.

You know, like I said,

every, we were talking about this the last episode,

every CRX out there is virtually worthless,

but a really nice one is really cool to see.

And I think they're worth rebuilding

and I think cars like that are worth keeping on the road.

S2000s are a really popular rebuilt title car, actually.

Things like that that are your future classics

or just future, maybe not classics,

but little collectibles that you want.

It can make a fun project.

And they're cheap.

They're really cheap.

Parts aren't so much cheap anymore for anything,

but like I said, look for those aftermarket parts.

If you have any questions, let me know.

I've looked at a lot of cars.

I've had people actually,

I've gone and looked at cars with people

and ripped them apart

when the seller's been shady

as I have no qualms about being the world's biggest asshole

when it comes to somebody who's trying to rip somebody off.

Yeah.

Okay.

Well,

I want to talk about something

that has been local for a long time.

It sold this last week and made national news

because it did not meet anybody's requirements.

I'm going to share some information.

A lot of people don't know this.

So a lot of people do.

So a very, very well-known collector in the air,

John Shirley, had a beautiful right-hand drive,

only one out of the factory in white Ferrari 250GTO

that went to market

and actually was picked up

by a very prominent collector down in California.

I think it's David Cho.

He's a Ferrari collector.

And it's David Lee or David Cho?

David Lee, sorry.

Yeah, Ferrari collector David Lee.

That's what it was.

I went for like $38,000, $38 million,

which I'm saying that

in the fact that most of us thought

it was going to go for $70 to $75 million.

Well, where did the red one sell?

42?

Yeah, but it was rebodied.

I mean, this one had,

I don't know if it had as much,

I don't think it has much history as the red one,

but the red one had been rebodied.

If you don't know that there have been

five 250GTOs within like 300 miles of each other here.

Yeah.

Some of them were crossed the street from each other.

But it's kind of an interesting perspective on the market

in the fact that something like that,

if you're an Avance member, it was at,

that was the car that was the entrance car

at Avance on the green at Chateau Saint-Michel.

I was rather surprised by that.

I think it will probably get a lot more publicity now

because of the new owner,

because the new owner is very open

about his car collection

and has been, he has the top,

he has the Ferrari 5 in ketchup and mustard.

So red and yellow, which I think is really cool.

So I don't know, what do you kind of think about that

as far as market values?

Those cars are such rarefied air,

such unique territory that I don't think it's only,

that's the epitome of it's only worth

what somebody's gonna pay for it.

True.

And I don't know, and I just don't see,

I don't see any cars worth that much to me.

And I'm obviously way out of that DAX bracket,

but I don't think any car is worth that to me

because part of the joy of having a car

as much as we wanna argue it as art,

it is art that you drive.

And at some point,

even no matter how much money you have,

there's a limit to how much you wanna risk on the road

or even on the track.

Like there's, for me, it's like, it's beautiful to look at.

All the 250 GTOs are art.

They're just stunning.

To that point, that one was driven.

Yeah.

That one got out and about.

Yeah, but that's exactly what I'm saying,

like there's a limit to how much you wanna spend

and drive.

True.

And so I think that, I don't know,

like rarity is cool, but I don't know,

when you're in that class of money

and I've oddly met a lot of billionaires

with that kind of money,

who can afford this stuff,

they're not, they don't give a shit.

They don't care.

Like they're not trying to impress you.

They're going to Walmart and buying whatever they want

and then going to next,

buying a Rolex in the same day.

Like, you know,

they're gonna go buy their beach towels at Walmart,

their Rolex at the same part,

you know, the same day

and then they're gonna go,

and they just don't care.

Like they buy it for them.

Like people with that kind of money

are usually buying that stuff.

I mean, if you've got that much money,

you're still trying to show off

and I'm sorry about the other problems, but.

While they come here.

From a perspective,

I think it should have gone for more.

Well, I think the rarity of that car

and I mean.

I don't know.

That's, I guess that's what I'm getting at is,

to me, there's not a single car on the planet

I look at that's worth that much anymore.

No.

No matter how much,

it's cool.

To that point,

during that same auction

and a Ferrari Enzo sold for 18 million,

which I think is so overpriced.

Yeah.

15 million overpriced.

Yeah.

15, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, don't be wrong.

It's funny.

I love the 250.

I think it's one of those beautiful cars ever made.

Period.

It's still not a 38 million dollar car to me.

It's a,

I don't know,

even if I had billions of dollars,

it's still a 20 million dollar car to me.

And I know it's worth more than that's the market,

the market says,

but to me personally,

I just don't see cars as worth that much.

Okay.

So then your halo car.

Remember Claren?

Yeah.

I,

it's another diminishing value in the sense that,

you know, what it takes to even own that car,

the maintenance with it.

It's like those Bugatti's,

you know, with not the race models,

but the street models in there are $20,000 tires.

I'm like,

$35,000 tires.

Yeah.

They found a way around that actually now.

Yeah.

But still I'm like,

it takes the joy out of owning it because I'm not,

I'm not driving it to,

for somebody else to look at,

I'm driving it for me to enjoy it.

So,

and I'm driving,

and I want it in my garage so I can look at it.

Don't gonna be wrong,

but

Walk around naked with a diaper.

I get it.

Right.

It's fine.

Yeah.

I don't know,

maybe five million bucks McLaren F1,

like for an LM,

long tail,

you know,

the orange,

the McLaren F1.

Just blown apart the market here.

Right.

Nobody's listened to me in that market.

But at the same time,

like,

I don't know,

I just,

I just want them to be five million

cause he pretty sure he could sell enough of his soul

to probably,

you know,

somehow finance that.

My knees would be really sore,

but it would be worth it.

I don't give a,

I mean,

come on.

I'd be right there.

20 bucks at a time.

I'd help you.

You're not 20 bucks at a time.

I got it one thing at a time.

Yeah.

So I,

I don't know,

I've just,

I've reached that diminishing point of returns on cars

and not bought cars

that were even within my price range.

When that,

not in my price range,

but I should say,

they would have been a massive stretch to buy,

but like there's a reason I don't buy a BAC mono

at the 160 to $200,000 range.

Like,

I'm fortunate enough that I could stretch enough

and probably do that with enough sacrifice,

but it's like,

no,

there's just,

I'm not going to put myself out that far financially,

take that much risk

for such a little use thing.

It's like,

I love it,

but for me,

there's a price on cars that's,

that's just it.

For me,

that's a 120,000 dollar car,

a BAC, I mean.

It's interesting to me that,

and I haven't done a ton of research on this,

but in your lifestyle,

and not lifestyle,

lifeline,

we've seen a lot of these cars,

these halo cars are coming up for sale all of a sudden.

Yeah.

People are getting older.

And that's it.

Like a lot of those collectors

that have invested in these cars

in their late 40s and things like that

are now getting to the point

where they're not driving them.

I don't know why a lot of them have been sold.

Like I said,

I'm not criticizing the people that own them.

I'm saying,

it's interesting to start to see these things,

you know, come to,

come to market.

We had a conversation in Monterey many years ago,

we were talking to somebody at the Hagerty party

and they were talking about the fact that

the old pre-war cars and things like that,

people weren't buying them

because in your collection,

it was fun.

This was such an interesting way he put it

in your collection.

If you buy a 1928 Rolls-Royce,

it's going to take the space in your garage

where you could put three cars instead of one.

And most people want more cars

to enjoy than one car.

And so that's a lot of the reason they're not buying.

I think that's a great point.

I think that's what it comes down to to me is

there are certain cars that I love

and want to see on the road

and I want to see them out there,

but they have no more appeal to me in my collection

than they do in a museum.

The 250GTO, as much as I love it,

has no more appeal to me in my collection

than it does in a museum

because it's such a halo car.

It's so far out there that I'm like,

yeah, it's amazing.

It's cool.

I love everything about it.

I don't really actually have a desire to own one.

I'd be,

it'd be kind of odd even to have something like that.

There's so many other things I'd rather do with that money.

And maybe like I said,

if I had billions,

I might have a very different opinion,

but I don't and I probably never will.

So I would own that car.

I would love to own one of those cars for several reasons

because like you, I would want to drive them.

My biggest worry would be other people on the road,

but you know how you have a dream for something?

I will never own that car.

There's just no way.

I don't need to own that car,

but I always said that if I bought that car,

if I was able to acquire a 250 GTO,

you would see me in a Walmart tent

outside the Festival of Speed camping next to that car.

Cause I just think that that visual

and believe me, I'm not the first person to do that.

People have done it in Bugatti's and everything like that.

But I think you have to enjoy that car.

And I think that's why I liked the white car here

because the owner really enjoyed it.

The person who took care of the collection

really enjoyed it.

They shared it with the world.

So many of those cars,

you never saw.

We're very lucky here.

If you're in the Seattle area,

we have exotics and the previous owner,

that car had been out there, I'm pretty sure.

And then the previous 250 GTO that we body

was out there a lot.

It was out in the rain just so we're clear.

And it had some of those beautiful photos ever

because it was out in the rain.

Oh God, that red one.

But these people drove these cars

and they knew what they were worth

and they still drove them.

And again, any day I would take that car

on a back road by myself

and if I owned that car,

I could probably buy the back roads.

It wouldn't be an issue,

but being on 405 in that car,

while somebody does what we call the exotic drift

where they're looking at your car

and driving into your lane.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would transport that car down to Utah

in the middle of the winter.

Absolutely.

And go do that drive.

But yeah, I don't know how different

that experience would be

in that car versus other cars.

It'd be awesome.

Would it be 38 million dollars awesome though?

Right, that's what I get to.

And I think that's,

I don't know if I don't know

if I'm representing the majority

of the population in that answer or not.

I'm curious what our audience thinks

is was it worth it to you

if you had billions of dollars to spend?

Would you buy that?

And I'm, no, I would rather buy like 20 other cars.

You know, I'd rather amass a collection.

Now like...

Well, that being said,

the gentleman that bought it had 60 other cars.

Right.

Yeah.

So I mean,

I don't know if that would make my collection better though.

Like for me, I'm much more interested

in say the 288 GTO.

Actually has more value to me

than the 250

because that's a car just dying to drive.

Who's the drummer that has that's from,

is it Pink Floyd?

Yeah.

Nick Mason?

Have you ever seen where he keeps his cars?

Like, have you ever seen the thing?

Like many people have been to his collection

and he has a 250 GTO.

He's a very rare, a very special 250 GTO.

And like all the photos are,

it's literally parked against another car

like inches off.

It's just shoved in the garage

because he drives it.

Yeah.

I mean, he has notoriously driven that car.

I have, I've told this story on here before

that the gentleman that helped restore the triumph

in post falls Idaho,

his father was in business with Phil Hill

and they had an option to buy one of those 250 GTOs

back in 72 for like $25,000.

That's a lot of money in 72.

But it was worth it.

But I mean, what it is now.

It was a deal in the century.

And Glenn always talked about him and his father,

wrestled over that decision

and how what that car was going to do.

And obviously, he went on to do some wonderful things.

And then his partner, Phil Hill,

went on to do some, had done some wonderful things, sorry.

So it's all in perspective.

But I also look at that and I go,

I don't see any cars today that are going to do that.

Like the Bugatti's are going to fluctuate,

the high-end stuff.

The entry level for those high-end cars

is going up and up.

Used to be able to get it.

Bugatti, when they started selling the Veyron,

they sold it to you for a million bucks.

They lost $4 million on every car.

They made money on the Chiron.

The Tiberon or whatever it's called now

is $9 million to get into that car.

I mean,

Is that a Hyundai?

I thought,

Turbioni or I don't know who knows what it is,

but it's just going up and up and up.

So I don't know if we'll ever see cars like that again.

Like the hand-built, in fact,

like those cars were built with English wheels

and hammers and dollies and yeah.

Yeah, I think that falls into the category

of like the McLaren F1 as well.

And this is just another thought I had

is there's nothing you can do to that car

to not make it worth repairing,

including burning it to the ground.

Oh, that's true.

So it's like, in that sense,

I mean, maybe from an investment perspective, but-

That's Mr. Bean.

He's crashed it like what, four times?

The McLaren F1, yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know how he gets insurance anymore.

Yeah, no kidding.

I don't know.

I'm trying to think if there's anything out there

that I would just pay anything for.

Not outside of real estate.

Yeah.

Yeah, let's just say more than anything,

like if I had $38 million,

yeah, I'd be buying a whole lot of land

in some place really sunny and away.

Yeah, that's true.

I'd have my own track.

Exactly, I'd have my own race track.

Yeah, that's true.

Then maybe from there, I guess that's probably

where I would feel differently about it

is if I had my own land and my own race track,

and I don't mean like a full-blown like,

like not, I'm not into something on a lap,

I'm just a way to enjoy it

without worrying about anything.

I might enjoy it more for that experience.

I don't know.

A massive house.

I'd have that house in Arizona

that's going around the car scene

that's like, it's like a one-bedroom house

and it's got like a 35 car garage.

I'm like, yeah, some real single guy built this,

but that's all I have, yeah.

Oh, I don't know.

I showed that to Shauna and she was insulted.

She's like, I want that too.

Okay, well, I'm saying car person then.

Yeah, car person.

That's fine, car person, one car garage.

Kate sent it to me and I go,

oh yeah, we just have to sell your kidneys,

my kidneys and all the hobos

down the street's kidneys, so.

But then we flood the kidney market

and they're not as worth as much.

So it's a problem, yeah.

Yeah, go ahead.

I want to talk to you

because there's some of the regulations in Zion.

Oh yeah.

I was watching the news and they came on the fact

that what's the name, Mount?

Mount Carmel Road, which is SR9 through Utah.

Goes through Utah and the news starts with,

if your car is now, or your car or truck is now

worth 50,000 pounds, you can't drive through Zion.

I'm thinking, how many people take a semi,

let alone you can't get through the tunnel?

No, the tunnel clearance is not even 12 feet.

So you can't drive a semi through there anyway.

So I don't know who the supply's to.

They're cutting down on length,

they're cutting down on width,

but that was the main selling feature

and I'm thinking, do you know what it takes

to put 50,000 pounds on a load?

Let alone you can't make that turn with a semi.

You can make it with a full-size GMC

and a 20-foot trailer.

So, good to know, they had the park ranger on them,

basically, obviously that road was built,

I don't know how many years ago,

and they have serviced it,

but it was never built to take that type of weight,

which I don't think it ever has,

mine is probably bringing in some of the equipment

to fix it.

Yeah, I was gonna say, it has taken that kind of weight

because I've seen the boulders the size of semis

land on the road and shut down the road.

Those things weigh a lot,

but other than that...

Yeah.

But you've been through there a lot more than I have,

I unfortunately didn't get as much to enjoy it the last time,

but it's interesting that they're starting

to kind of crack down on this.

If you're a car person and you've driven any

of the Dan's drives or talked to us about the drives

we've had, we spend a good amount of time

or try to in national parks and things like that.

And you always see the mom and pop driving

the huge motor home where they shouldn't be

against, you know, on a goat trail,

trying to get up to the viewpoint

when they probably should've just parked it

at the bottom and gotten in their Hyundai and drove it up.

Yeah, Yosemite, you can't.

You're, see, you sent, as I said the backwards,

Zion, you can't.

They won't let you in the...

It's the main gate there, isn't it?

The East entrance with a full-size RV.

You have to turn around right there

and then they have the spot for it.

On the West side, the West entrance,

you can to go to the lodge,

but even then it's limited, but it's just hype.

But like, yeah, I'm still trying to think

who that even applies to.

That's a massive tour bus.

I can't think and that will not fit through the tunnel.

They have the roads alone.

I mean, they're narrow through there.

I remember pulling the GMC with the trailer

was every bit of skill I possibly had

not to kill somebody.

And I almost took out a BMW intentionally

that was parked in the road.

That's not skill, that's intention.

Yeah, no, I literally was like,

they were trying to get out of their car

and they left it parked in the road

and I just held the horn until they moved

because I was like, you guys cannot park in the road.

I was like, move it or I'll just move you.

Take your pick.

It's gonna be your fault either way.

We saw that this weekend.

Yeah.

The snowmobile trailer's just parked in the road.

Parked in the road, like middle of the road.

Yeah.

Like there's parking.

When there was parking next to the,

whatever.

Yeah, anyway, entitled people drive me nuts.

But it's kind of funny.

I hope they make that more of a rule

in more national parks

because that is a problem except

when we've been through Yosemite

and it's not been through Canyon lands.

Oh my horse, the worst in Canyon lands

because people do like 20 under the limited RVs on that road

and it's a 45 mile an hour road

half the way through the park.

Same with Bryce Canyon.

So no, you're not welcome in parks.

You're in everybody's way

and you're annoying and entitled.

Makes me happy about Moab.

Like you go to Moab and everybody's parked their trailers

and mostly because everybody wants to get their toys out

and get play with them,

but like you don't see them.

No.

Like I didn't see people pulling trailers

heading out to Colorado that back way

and things like that.

So no, it's a much different culture.

There's just certain do's and don'ts.

Yeah, it's just think of more than yourself, please.

Please go to the national parks.

Just try.

Yeah.

You don't have to be in everybody's way.

You're not on a bicycle.

You can enjoy the drive

while your trailer's parked down the street.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, they have great shuttles in Zion.

Yeah.

Like really, they're really great shuttles

because you can sit and look out the windows

and they have like arching windows.

They're on an angle.

So you can look at all the cliffs around you

without like straining your head.

The shuttle system is awesome in Zion.

It's great.

So I'm glad they're doing that.

We've got some guests coming from the show

I need to follow up with to come on the show.

We made some friends at the...

We made, Dan and I made friends.

Yeah, we were allowed outside the house

and made friends.

Yeah, Nathan Muntz got to have you on the show.

It was great talking to you.

So yeah, we'll have some guests coming up pretty soon.

Talking more about rebuilt cars and the criminals.

Yeah.

Oh, Nathan's a criminal?

No.

Oh, okay.

Actually, this is what we should close the show with.

If you have rebuilt a car or you bought a rebuilt car

or you've been burned by a rebuilt car,

any of the above, I really want to hear from you.

I'd love to hear your story

and what happened, what you found out.

If you have rebuilt a car or you do this on the up and up,

there's a lot, because there are people that do.

Let us know.

I'd love to know your process.

Love to hear more about it.

Like I said, there's plenty of good reasons

to buy a rebuilt title car.

They're not all bad, but they're very...

Go with your gut.

It's pretty easy to identify one that's bad.

Don't want you to get screwed.

Let me know if you need a hand, shoot me an email.

Yeah, call us.

Yeah, four to five.

If the story is good enough to be on the show.

Yeah, four to five, two, nine, eight, seven, eight, seven, three.

Leave us a voicemail anytime of the day,

because I don't listen to it until a few days later anyway.

Yeah.

So you won't wake me up.

Yeah.

Excellent.

All right.

Well, for this episode of the Advanced Podcast,

as always, I'm Nick and I'm Dan.

And don't just get there.

Enjoy the drive.

Good As New!

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