“Gibbs” is a shorthand reference to Joe Gibbs Racing, another top NASCAR organization. The hosts are speculating whether a driver could move to that team based on available seats and team needs.
“Open seats” means available driver spots at NASCAR teams—places where a team needs a driver for a car. When many drivers are free agents, the number of open seats strongly affects who can get hired.
RCR is a NASCAR racing team run by Richard Childress. The hosts are saying the team hasn’t been performing as well lately, which makes it harder for the driver to get fast results every week.
In NASCAR, drivers earn points based on how they finish in each race. If someone is “points ahead,” it means they’re currently doing better in the season standings, but it doesn’t guarantee anything—one bad stretch can change it.
They’re talking about being fast every time, not just sometimes. In racing, that means the car setup and driving feel have to work reliably from week to week.
This means the race cars are more evenly matched than they used to be. If one team used to be way faster, now more teams are similar. So drivers can’t just coast on a faster car—they have to be sharper to gain spots.
They’re talking about how close everyone’s lap times are. If the lap times are spread out, some cars are much faster than others. If the lap times cluster together, it means the whole field is more evenly matched, so small differences matter more.
Victory Lane is the spot where the race winner celebrates. Saying someone can’t be expected to get back to Victory Lane regularly means they probably won’t be winning races often right now.
They’re basically saying that if the race cars themselves (the rules and setup options) don’t change, results may stay similar. Sometimes a driver can improve, but if the car package is holding them back, you need a bigger change to see a big turnaround.
The team owner is the person who runs the racing team and pays for it. They’re involved in big-picture decisions beyond just the day-to-day race strategy.
An engineer in racing helps interpret what the car is doing and suggests changes to improve performance. They use data and experience to help the team make the car faster and easier to drive.
In NASCAR, the “Next Gen” car is the newer type of race car NASCAR introduced. It changes how the cars are built and regulated, so driving it can feel different than older generations.
NASCAR has used different “generations” of race cars over the years. Each generation can drive and handle differently because the rules and car design change.
“Gen five” is NASCAR’s next step in race car design after an earlier generation. When NASCAR changes the generation, teams often have to adjust how they set up and drive the cars.
JGR is a well-known NASCAR racing team. The speaker is saying that during the “Gen six” era, even that strong team didn’t get the results they expected.
Concept
partnerships they need to fund the operation
Race teams need money to keep running, and sponsors are a big part of that. If the person who builds those sponsor relationships is gone, it can be harder to keep the funding steady.
“Build fast race cars” is about translating engineering decisions into on-track speed—typically through chassis setup, aerodynamics, and powertrain calibration. In racing, speed is a system outcome, not just one part of the car.
Racing isn’t just about the driver. If the team doesn’t give you a fast, well-prepared car and good strategy, your performance will be limited no matter how skilled you are.
Super late models are a serious level of stock-car racing. Drivers often race them to build skills and prove they can compete before moving up to bigger NASCAR-style series.
Being an Indy car driver means racing open-wheel cars at the top level in the U.S. It’s a different kind of racing than NASCAR, so some drivers start with that dream before switching paths.
Pit Road is where the crew works on the race car during a race. Drivers also use it to get the car ready, and it’s a big part of how teams manage speed and strategy.
BJ McLeod emphasizes how tightly he could control lap times—varying only a few tenths or hundredths over many laps. In racing, that kind of consistency is valuable because it indicates predictable car behavior and good tire management, not just a single fast lap.
ASA refers to a stock-car racing series (American Speed Association) that existed separately from NASCAR’s top divisions. BJ McLeod notes he hadn’t been in an ASA car for years, highlighting how different series/vehicle setups and driving styles can be.
Being “ran over” after a spin implies a high-speed contact incident that can total a race car quickly. In stock-car racing, once a car is down or slowed, the risk of being hit increases dramatically, and damage can end the session or race.
“Herzogs” appears to be the team/organization BJ McLeod was working with during these NASCAR-related opportunities. The episode segment describes how they communicated about testing and offered him a ride after the incident.
They’re saying something about the car’s setup wasn’t straight after they left. That can make the car handle differently and hurt performance.
Topic
Kentucky
They’re referencing a track/testing location in Kentucky. The team wanted him to do more testing there.
Concept
percentage thing
In racing and motorsports management, a “percentage thing” usually refers to how an agent or management group gets paid—often a cut of winnings, sponsorship money, or appearance fees. The speaker is describing a negotiation over commission rather than the total amount of money.
A “top 10” is when you finish the race in the first ten spots. It’s a way to show you were competitive, even if you didn’t win.
Concept
demolition license
A demolition license is permission from the government to do demolition jobs legally. In the story, it’s how the speaker earned money to support racing.
Late Model racing is a type of short-track stock-car competition. “Super Late Model” usually means a faster, more high-performance version of that class, with cars built to race hard on oval tracks.
Regional racing is local or mid-level competition, usually on short tracks. The big idea here is that racers often do a lot of the work on their cars themselves between races.
In this kind of racing, you might race one night and then immediately turn around and work on the car right after. It’s a fast schedule that requires quick fixes and lots of effort.
Concept
New Smyrna
“New Smyrna” is a race track where drivers practice and race. Learning a track like that helps you understand how to drive and set up the car better.
A “truck race” is a race series where the cars are based on pickup trucks. The trucks are modified for racing, and it’s a common place for drivers to gain experience.
Concept
Craftsman series truck
A “Craftsman series truck” is a race pickup truck built to compete in a specific truck racing series. It’s not just a normal truck—it’s prepared to race under that series’ rules.
Martinsville is a famous short race track in Virginia. It’s known for tight turns and lots of braking, so race cars and drivers have to be set up for that style of track.
A fob is the small electronic key you use to control your car. It can unlock the doors and sometimes start the car without putting in a traditional key.
Talladega stages are how the race is divided into sections. If the sections get longer or shorter, teams have to change when they pit and when they push the car.
This is racing where the goal isn’t just to go fast—it’s also to use as little fuel as possible. If the rules change how the race is split into stages, teams have to plan when to drive hard and when to conserve fuel.
Stage limits are basically the rules that say when each part of the race ends. If those limits change, you can’t use the same fuel/pit plan—you may need to stop earlier or later.
“Save fuel” means driving in a way that uses less gas, like easing off the throttle more than you would if you were just trying to win immediately. The worry here is that a longer stage could force teams to conserve fuel for much longer.
A caution is when the race slows down because something happened on the track. After that, the cars restart, and that can change who has the best chance to pass.
A “short fill” means you put in less fuel than normal. Teams do it to try to stay ahead on track position, but it can make the next part of the race tighter.
In a “two by two” restart, the cars line up side-by-side in pairs and don’t immediately spread out. That can limit where you can pass at first, because everyone is still bunched up in lanes.
The “third lane” is basically an extra place to drive that lets cars pass when the track is crowded. Whether it works depends on grip and how the race is being managed.
Concept
shark fin and A post
The “shark fin” and “A post” are aerodynamic bodywork elements used on NASCAR cars to influence airflow and downforce. Changes to these parts can affect how stable and grippy cars are in different lanes, which is why they’re discussed in terms of making a third lane viable.
A pit stop is when a race car pulls into the pits to get serviced. Teams usually refuel and change tires, and the rules about what you must do can change how long the stop takes and how teams plan the race.
“Four tires” usually means replacing all the tires on the car at once. That can give the car better grip again, but it also takes more time than doing something smaller.
They’re talking about a racing rule that forces teams to change tires when they refuel. That means you can’t just add fuel and keep the same tires, so the pit stop takes longer and teams have to plan around that.
The phrase sounds like “tire chains,” but in this context it’s probably meant to be “tire changes.” That would just mean swapping tires during the pit stop, which affects how long the stop takes and how teams plan the race.
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Hey everybody, I'm Dylan Hart Jr., and this is The Dirty Thirty.
The best highlights from all of our podcasts this week.
30 minutes every single Friday, The Dirty Thirty coming at you.
Let's get right to it.
This episode of The Dirty Thirty is presented by Arby's new Meetin' Three Box.
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Is this Kyle's last year RCR? It feels like they just need to...
Where's he going to go? Where's he going to go?
They can't stay there. It just isn't working there.
You retire then? Where's he going to go, Travis?
Aren't there supposed to be like 15 to 20 drivers that are free agents this year?
Okay, what big team is going to hire him? I know one that's not.
I don't know. I'm saying the Gibbs, right? They're happy
with their lineup. Kyle's 40 years old. I think it's better to...
What are the potential open seats? Potentially the 48.
Okay. What else?
Maybe a Spyro car? Okay. Is that it?
I don't know. This is not new news, though. We keep talking about this, but it's...
In this last couple of years at Gibbs, things were not good.
This is not new. This is not... Oh my gosh. Where is this coming from?
This has been like this for five years.
We have to have an honest conversation at some point.
Travis, get him back on the show. Honest conversation.
I mean, he's not...
So how much is this RCR and how much is this...
I don't know. Clearly, RCR is not good right now.
Well, I think that's what a lot of people think is that...
But you're a hall of fame Mount Rushmore driver.
Carry it better than your teammate then.
Okay. That's fair.
Okay. If you're the greatest, then carry it better than your teammate who's won 10 races.
Find a way. I think that's what he should be able to do, but it's not happening.
He's right now seven points ahead of Austin Dillon.
Okay, then. It's time to be honest about what's going on.
You know, and I just don't...
It's... I think he's searching.
I think that he doesn't know how to get the speed out of the next year in car
on a consistent basis. There's been flashes of it.
And when, yes, he won three races this first season at RCR.
That was the first year of next year. Was it not?
It was. Yeah.
Everyone was guessing. Everybody was guessing.
At that point. That's when Trackhouse was hauling ass.
And there were just...
There were always these isolated teams that would pop up and dominate the weekend.
And it was like, wow, it's...
But now that everything is coming out in the wash, you're seeing these cars running closer together.
Like, look at any of the statistics of where the dispersion of dots were on lap times in 2022
at any particular track.
And look at that same track today in 2026.
The whole field went from spread like this to like this.
Everyone's so close now.
So as a driver, you got to make up the difference.
You are the difference maker.
You're the one that sends the teams in the direction.
And so it's just my opinion.
And Kyle Busch, I can't hold the guy's helmet talent-wise.
But I just think that this is not new.
He's struggled for five years now.
And so we just have to be honest about our expectations.
And if you're expecting Kyle Busch to just go back to Victory Lane on a regular basis,
you are kidding yourselves and you're going to be very disappointed.
I just think that until we change cars or something has to change, I don't know what.
I have no idea.
I'm not in his shoes.
I'm not as crew chief.
I'm not as engineer and I'm not his team owner.
So I'm not in the weeds.
I'm just a podcaster that happens to be on the racetrack around him.
And I can just say that it's just not working.
But I don't have the answers.
And we need to just live in this reality for the time being.
Kyle is a competitor who hates losing.
I mean, the guy would have the worst attitude when he runs second.
Remember that?
That's how much of a competitor he was.
So I know it's eating at him alive that how bad he's running every week.
But it's starting to be the normal.
It's like the good weeks are actually the outliers.
That's, you know, and as someone who is this teammate knows how much work the guy puts in.
And I mean, he's racing a lot now during the week and chasing the sun around.
He's in the racing world 24 seven.
But he's not in the next gen car.
So, yeah, I don't know, though.
Like he's went through many different car changes.
You know, he was around when it was like the gen four car winning gen five,
winning gen six, winning.
He was around for all those.
He was able to adapt to those.
But now I don't find that this next gen car needs a lot different than what it.
I searched for the same feel that I did 10 years ago or 15 years ago when I go to these racetracks.
But it's something is just not registering.
But but also we cannot ignore the fact that.
Gen six car his last few years and gen six at JGR was not good.
So it's just, I don't know.
I don't know.
And, you know, I don't think he's at the age where the light switch has gone off for him.
But it it just something just doesn't feel right.
Well, Ty Gibbs may not even be in his prime yet.
Am I?
No, I don't think he is not close.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, just think about that.
Like he's sitting there fourth in points and, you know, definitely in the conversation around
points, but I don't think that he's when could he hit his prime?
Is he five years from it still could be?
Oh, I mean, I think that you're if you're in a great situation with a great team,
it's start, you know, you could start around to, you know, the age of 25 run to 35.
Yeah.
I mean, he's not even different for everybody.
Just different for different people.
Like Denny's is, you know, Denny's is a lot.
His prime run is a lot longer than most.
But most guys get about a 10 year window of like they're really peak.
I think still be great after that.
Yeah.
I feel like Ty is in a really good spot to have the same path that Denny had with the
equipment that he's in because Denny's been in a plus equipment his entire career.
Yeah.
So his prime window obviously stays open longer, in my opinion.
Play opens up sooner too.
Yeah.
Definitely opens up sooner.
The challenge for Gibbs is going to really be
how that operation is ran from the top down.
Joe is way up there in age, right?
He is absolutely,
he is his celebrity status, his recognition, name recognition, all those things.
85 years old.
So that right there is how they that he's a big huge part of their sustained success
partner relationships and all those things, right?
So how they carry that on beyond Joe himself is the key to Ty's success, right?
So for example, I mean, I would say it's kind of like,
What do you think Ty needs to keep this?
Let me just say this.
So DI, for example, right?
DI with Dillon Hart and without Dillon Hart, two different buildings,
two different operations, two different businesses.
Even though the names there, the legacies there,
to be able, it is just not the same as that man walking in the building.
The way he would come in there and talk to employees,
the way he would shake hands with sponsors and market the company.
When that leaves, someone else has to come in there and do that.
Someone else has to come in there and be that and no one could replace that, right?
And so no matter, and we, you know, DI can be successful,
but it is not ever going to be what it was without Dillon Hart present and in the building.
And so that is the challenge for Gibbs is when Joe is gone,
how can they continue to have the partnerships they need to fund the operation,
maintain the critical, talented individuals in engineering and crew and support
to be able to build fast race cars?
And if they can find that magic way to do those things, that charisma and that ability to,
you know, to really truly be successful in operating the business,
Tye's got a real opportunity at a solid 20-year career with a lot of wins.
Those positions are hard to fill though.
The leadership.
It's hard to fill those.
Well, they may have a plan.
And you're like, I'm sure you know, there's stories about people that worked with your dad.
The things he would do, like go see him on the land, just walk up and I mean,
that made their day.
Like they couldn't wait to get there.
And also like a sponsor maybe once chose like, you know what,
I don't have that same relationship with whoever takes over.
I may not want to.
Exactly, that's what I'm speaking of.
So the leadership, Tye's, I know that's a long view, but that's truly like,
what kind of driver can Tye be?
Like if he's driving for Joe Gibbs Racing, he's going to be as good as Joe Gibbs Racing is.
Yeah.
Right?
Because he's a winner.
Tye's now a winner.
Tye's a guy that's fourth in points.
He's a winner.
Get him in a great race car.
He's going to get you a great result.
Very not really mistake prone start.
He's dialing it in, not in his prime.
This guy's got a great runway, right?
But he's going to be only as good as the equipment and the organization he's with.
And so that's kind of how I look at that.
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In 1999, you were heralded as being a potential next Gordon in the Daytona Beach
news journal. I know of New Sumerna and I know of all these places that you've been racing at,
but I had never heard your name. I really knew who you were until you got into the Xfinity series,
right? And I had no idea that you had done all of this, and I don't think that a lot of people
do. When we're on our broadcast and you're in a race or you're around and we're going to mention
you and talk about you, people will say, yeah, this guy won a lot of races in Florida, racing
late models, but nobody ever really goes into detail about it. And I think a lot of our current
younger fans know you mainly from your experience in racing in Cup and Xfinity as a car owner as
well, but you legit won some badass big late model races. Talk about first off, I guess,
how much you enjoyed racing at that level in super late models having success. What did you
believe was your dream at that time? What was your path? Where did your vision have you going?
If you go back to the beginning of super late, my entire life, so five years old,
I actually want to be an Indy car driver. Then I turned eight and started growing and
that 10, I was five, eight and 185 pounds. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to go to NASCAR
out. So I just felt like I fit more in NASCAR. And especially back then, most of the guys were
big guys. So I really dreamed of being a NASCAR from before 10 years old, probably around seven
or eight, but I was always wanting to go there, had no idea at that age what it takes to make it
to this level, really just focused on what my parents had me in, which was go-karts then and
switched to super late models. And I started winning in super late and everybody's telling me that
I can make it, I can do this, I can be a NASCAR. And I kind of thought that you just get there,
right? Like you just keep winning and eventually you'll be there. And I kept winning and I never
never made it to NASCAR, right? And there was a point where I had a couple of interviews,
I come up here a couple of different times for different stuff.
Like what?
So I got, I actually tried out for the Herzog ride when Jimmy was moving Hendrick.
They did like a combine type deal where you went to Concord and drove the car, drove the
SA car. And then if you did well enough there, you were going to get to race it. And I went up and
there was like nine different drivers. I remember the car I got in already had the
back bumper smashed, somebody put it in the vents. And I remember parking on Pit Road after the test.
I did 75 laps straight. And I still remember, I varied two laps, I varied two tenths. And I
never been on Concord, but two laps I varied two tenths and the other 73 laps I varied four
hundredths. And I hadn't been in an ASA car in, you know, probably three years at that point.
But anyway, I remember parking on Pit Road and Howie Leto walked up and he's like,
put the wind in that down. And he's like, how'd you like to race Nashville? And I was like,
I'd love to race Nashville, right? So they took me to Nashville and, you know, we were
third quick in practice. And it's weird how you remember this stuff, right? Like that's 20 years,
20 plus years ago. So anyway, third quick in practice, I went out to do a mock run,
somebody spun, and then I parked just to just, I just slowed down to miss them. And I got ran over,
Travis Kittleson actually hit me running like 80 or 90 mile an hour, destroyed the car.
And we had, we had a bad backup and bottom line. I finished 18th or something in the race,
had a meeting with Herzogs after the race. They wanted me to come test the actual
Bush car back then. I think it was at Kentucky, they were doing a test. And then there was some
kind of misalignment when we left. That's really, you know, an odd situation because I was getting
told by, you know, like their agent, they had, they had their own like agent people that worked
with them. They were communicating with me. And then I had an agent as well. And, you know,
they were going back and forth. And it was like, they wanted to offer me the ride
the boat on actually ended up taking Todd took it. Or yeah, it was Todd took it. And,
you know, they, they offered, they told me, even told me a money amount, you know,
amount of years, like they were getting a contract. And, and the last conversation I had was, it was
like something about I had to fire my agent and sign with, with, you know, this group. And I don't,
it wasn't, I don't know, I don't know what was going on. I don't really know. I just know what
I was told, right? And I was told I had to sign with, with these other agents. And I just, you
know, the way I was raised and the things I did, I just, you know, I was, I wasn't, I just wasn't
going to fire my agent bottom line. Like it had nothing to do with the money. I had to drive the
car for free. I could make money to eat. Like I had no worries about that. It's truthfully my
entire life. I just know I'll make money. So it's, it was more about, I'm not going to step on the
guy that got me an introduction because I had been winning in super late models until this agent
come to me. It was Jay Schultes. Until he come to me, I, I didn't ever get a chance. And he got me
literally come to me. And in a month, I had an interview inside of Herzog's building, right? So,
you know, I went and I just, I told him, I said, you know, I would, I said, I don't mind if it's
about a percentage thing. You guys can take your percentage. He'll take his percentage. I'm going
to keep him, but I'm not signing with y'all with the agency. And I never got a phone call back.
And it really just all ended right there as far as that one goes. And to this day, I am thankful
I made that decision. I have zero regret even knowing that, you know, Todd won, I think a race
or two in that car and could have changed the whole landscape of me being, you know, 42 years old
with zero wins. And really, I think I got two top 10s to who knows if I got in that car, I may have
ended up being a successful truck driver, you know, getting several wins. I don't want to go back
and redo it. I'm 100% happy with the decision I made. So I, you know, I, you know, I'd already
met Jessica at this point, my wife now, you know, my parents had, had, and I had started a little,
you know, excavating company where we just went and bought, we, you know, have a couple
track hose and excavators and front end loaders and bulldozers, things like that. We just, you
kind of got one of each to just start going that route. Well, when the hurricanes come and tour
everything up, there was so many demolition jobs. And at this time, you know, Jessica, she called
me one day and she was like, do you, uh, do you want to do, get a demolition license and see if
you can go get some work? And I was like, well, how much is it? And she said 50 bucks. And I was like,
yeah, I said, let's do it. I said, I'll talk to mom and dad, rent the equipment from them and
we'll go do it. So that was the first thing her and I did together. And we, we grossed half a
million dollars in six months. And I was 19 years old. And it's like, I, um, you know, I just
remember going after it and working. And I took about probably five or six months off that can
go to the racetrack. It was really bad down there at that time. And, um, you know, I remember my
first race back and it was like, I, I could pay for it. Like I didn't have, have to have mom and
dad pay for it. Right. So it, um, it was pretty cool. And I remember that. And, you know, at that
point, I just hadn't, I had never had anything develop and anything up here that wasn't a lot
of money. And I was like, you know what, I'm just going to win super late model races. Like I have
so much, I always will have so much respect for everyone that races at the regional level in
every class. Like it doesn't, if you go to the racetrack and race on Saturday night and work on
your car and unload it and, and bust your ass to go win, like you got my respect. Right. So it's,
you know, I was happy to stay there and win and, and just go for it. And, you know, I think, um,
you know, we, we won probably another 40 or 50 races from 2004 to 2010. And when I was sitting
there on the front stretch, um, you know, with the take, I remember this, like it was yesterday,
I was taking the pictures for one in the world series. And that was a dream of mine. Like it's
really hard to do. And it's, and it was a dream. And it's like, wow, this is, this is like, it was
so cool for about five seconds. And then my mind takes over that I'm, you know, I'm, I just like
being driven and, and trying to make stuff happen. And I'm looking around and I'm like, I can't feed
my family with, with winning this race. Like I can't, I can't, you know, I can't further my life
from, from accomplishing this in my opinion. Like it was just, it was so cool. And it's still the
coolest thing I've ever done. Like performance wise on the track, the world series is, is the best
to me learning that at New Smyrna. The best thing I've done, right? As a driver, but it's still,
you know, it was, I just saw it as, okay, well, we accomplished this. Now we need to accomplish
something that we can't, right? And that's, I, you know, my car owner asked me that night,
at that point, he said, wait, what would you do if you could do anything the rest of the year?
And I said, right now I would sell or late models. I would round up enough money to go run one
truck race. And he's like, if that's what you want to do, do it. I talked to my common senior
and he's like, if you'll work here every day. Had Jermaine? Yeah, Jermaine. They hired you?
No, I would do it for free. You worked there for free? Yeah, I worked there for free and they
built my truck. So we paid for the material, right? They supplied the labor and built me a
Craftsman series truck for, for October Martinsville that year, it was 2010. And I worked every day
with everybody there, seven to whenever I tore down, I took Todd's trucks apart to tear down on
them and, and then I'd work on my truck whenever they had time to work on it. And, you know,
it was really fun because I, I mean, I, I did everything, swept floors, clean bathroom. I
did everything you could do in that shop. That's, you know, that was my way in and, and the, the
Hillman family, the entire family and the Jermaine family were the ones that got me going up here.
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Who's most likely to have their phone at 2% always, Amy? Really? Yeah. It's at 2% when
I can't find it. That's for sure. I would say if you pulled us in conversation with each other,
Amy has said the words, the phone's about to die, probably 10 to 1. Yeah, but that was years ago.
I'm just saying my phone is rarely about to die. Yours is more often. Here's where the loophole is
a net. The phone might be close to dying, but then he just switches to his iPad, so he's still
available. He's still online. I put the phone on charge. I know, so like that's what I'm,
he's on his phone, I think, more, which he refuses to believe. We're not having that conversation.
So his phone does, his phone does get close to dying. How did we get to, he's always falling
more. That means your phone's gonna die faster. Not necessarily. If you keep it charged. He's
always around the charger. I know where, I'm the one who puts all the chargers in the house.
I know where all the chargers are. Yeah, I know. You come and you're the chargers that I plug in
too. You can't, he's like a wire thief. Have you lost your phone recently? I lost it twice
today. I didn't have it this morning. I ran out, I ran out two different errands this morning already
and I didn't have it. If you were to sit in our house for a day, you would hear her find my phone
alert at least twice. I'll be hanging out. Where's your iPad? Why? Can I have it? No, I just need
to find my phone. I'll be hanging out and all of a sudden across the house. I'm like, yep,
Amy's looking for a phone again. I did it yesterday and it was still in my purse. I had gone and come
back and just didn't even take it out of my handbag. I've lost my purse. Let's check. I've lost
my phone. Let's not check in our purse or nothing. Sorry. Very overstimulated and overwhelmed.
This has been a lot. It's impressive. Well, thanks. I'm glad I can entertain you.
Yeah. Is it just your phone that you lose or do you like? For the most part, yes.
I know if it's Keyser. Nobody has keys anymore. The keys in my purse or in the car, I don't usually
move that around too much. Nobody has keys anymore? I think that's a lie. Okay. We still have to have
the fob. I don't lose the fob. I'm pretty good about that. It's just my phone.
All right. Last one. The changes made to Talladega stages will be enough to end fuel mileage racing.
Spot on. Spot off. Spot off. Yeah. Okay. It's a small step.
No, I don't want fans to think that that's a game changer. But Steve, do you think
looking back before this car, like we've learned things all the time, do you think with the old
car we would have gotten to this point? I think so. Everything that's going on, it's unbelievable
where you're seeing the OEs kind of hit what you're doing. So the strategy, it's fascinating how much
it's changed. So it's on us to kind of keep going. The stages as we came up with them, we had a certain
mentality of how you do it. Now it's totally flipped because we want to try something new.
But I don't want fans thinking that's the be all angle. Yeah, there's a lot to do to figure out
what we could do. I've heard there's so many idea points, all kinds of things. So we're going to
spend a lot of time not just on the car, but we've got a great group of smart people in the industry
too to listen to to continue to work on it because we want the best race impossible. Yeah, I didn't
mean to steal that. No, you're good. I'm glad you said that because I was hoping I was going to
I was going to be like, listen, I have concerns. I think anybody does.
For the listeners, just so you know, Freddy's hard car is sitting on the table between he and
Steve. You know, the what it's hard to pass is why we've kind of gotten to this and it's hard to
pass when everybody is is all out is the is the problem. So my concerns lie with the longer I
think the idea is I don't think we have the exact stage limits and now the stage. Yeah,
it's going to be a long first stage and then two shorter stages to end the race.
The first stage is going to be so long that I'm worried that we're going to have to because what
we've seen in the past is we said we all save fuel, we pit, we come out, we race our asses off to
the end of the stage, repeat for second stage, kind of repeat third stage, you know, you always
have that one run where you save, save, save, then you race, then we save, save, save, race,
save, save, save, save, race. I'm worried that we're going to have to save, save, save, pit,
continue to save, save, save, just to make the first stage on one stop. So but it's going to be
exciting to watch because when we are saving, we're three and four wide the whole time. So I mean,
it's going to be kind of fun to watch, I think, but then my biggest concern is we have a planned
caution that's going to be with whatever you want to say, 40, 50 to go, something like that.
So we're going to save up to that point because we know that we can jump guys on pit
road on the end of the stage two. And then we're going to run all wide open because we're all we
don't have to save. Now some guys may short fill to try to get track position. That's that's a
crew chief question. But you know, I think we're all going to be pushing wide open at the end.
And I'm worried we're going to end up with two by two hard to form that third lane again. But
but here's one thing, we've always gotten to that position, we start pushing with only about 10 laps
to go. Right? Yep. So now that's going to be hopefully open it up a little more. Right. One
of the things you saw, right, that that is not good is, you know, when you fuel mileage,
he used to at least Denny used to always do this. And I used to be like, thank God,
he's out there because he pulled out, he'd at least check out. There was no everything was
blocked. And that's not a good thing either when you got when you got the entire track. I don't
know who did that. That was a terrible idea. No, no, it's what's the kind of work it's gotten to,
you know, and that's what I mean of all these things have evolved. So I would do the same thing.
Yeah. And like, listen, I hope it works. And we have seen it get better. Like,
when we first started with this car, once it we decided to go, it was two by two. And that was
it. We have seen with some of the changes, the shark fin and the A post, like we have seen that
third lane be a little more viable places. And I hope to God that that happens again. I'm just
that those are my concerns of once we get to that last stage, and we restart and we can all make
it on fuel. And we all start going wide open. Hopefully, we can still race each other because
that's that's been the problem from day one is you don't want to be trapped in the back because
you can't go anywhere. You feel like you're locked in. And hopefully, hopefully, that doesn't
happen. I hope we hope this is a step in the right direction, we can go further the next time.
We'll see, we're going to see something to learn from something. And there's more coming, right?
I think there's definitely more. I mean, I don't know the process is publicly about the pitstops.
I don't know the mandatory. Oh, I don't think he has yet. But that is something. No, I think
that's something that actually, I'm sorry, he did. We're not looking at it this year. But for
next year, you know, four tires that you got to take with fuel, whatever, we're looking at a lot
of those things. So if you come down and put fuel in, you have to take tires. So that makes the
pit stop longer. So there's not that such an urgency on saving. Jesus, these tire chains are
making $300,000. There we go. For 10 years. But no, yeah, so. But I mean,
this is what you want. You want to see steps because you want to see that you guys are
acknowledging that it's not great and we're taking steps to make it better.
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About this episode
Kyle Busch’s struggles at RCR spark a blunt debate: whether it’s equipment, the next-gen car’s feel, or simply a multi-year performance slump that’s become “normal.” The hosts also zoom out to Ty Gibbs’ trajectory, arguing his prime window may be longer thanks to strong JGR resources—while emphasizing the real challenge is sustaining Joe Gibbs’ leadership, sponsor relationships, and operational magic after he’s gone. A separate interview with BJ McLeod highlights his super late model dominance, near-misses in NASCAR, and how a hurricane-era demolition business helped fund his racing path. The show closes with discussion of Talladega stage changes and fuel-mileage strategy concerns.
It's amazing what you can get done in 30 minutes, and even more amazing if you do it while listening to Dirty Thirty! You'll hear from your favorite hosts, NASCAR President Steve O'Donnell & BJ McLeod, too!
We open up with Actions Detrimental, where Denny Hamlin weighs in on his former teammate Kyle Busch's recent struggles and why it doesn't add up to him.
Next, Dale Jr. talks about Ty Gibbs' prime years and whether they will be affected whenever the day comes where Joe Gibbs is no longer in charge of JGR.
In the guest episode this week, you can't miss him if you see him — BJ McLeod walks us through being compared to Jeff Gordon in the late '90s and why his big break never came.
Over on the Bless Your 'Hardt set, we're back to talking about phones, and Amy gives us insight into the proverbial journey her phone goes through daily.
And last, but definitely not least, NASCAR President Steve O'Donnell gives us a rundown on the changes being made to Talladega's stages to combat fuel saving — and why they are NOT a permanent fix.
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