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Hiring Under 18: Lessons From a Shop That Does It Right
Hiring Under 18: Lessons From a Shop That Does It Right
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About this episode
John Perez from Sonic Automotive shares how they developed a successful junior apprenticeship program to hire and train automotive technicians under 18. Overcoming company policies and safety concerns, they partnered with local high schools to create a structured, supportive pipeline that includes mentorship, safety training, and certification opportunities. The program not only addresses technician shortages but also builds lasting relationships and community involvement. John emphasizes starting small, gaining leadership buy-in, and focusing on long-term growth and safety, offering a fresh approach to cultivating future talent in the automotive industry.
Topics:
junior apprenticeship program
hiring under 18
technician training
safety protocols
partnership with schools
talent acquisition
industry workforce development
mentorship
certification pathways
long-term hiring strategy
Cars:
Renault Master
John Perez, Sr. Director of Talent Acquisition at Sonic Automotive, shares how they built a junior apprenticeship program for students under 18. From earning executive buy-in to keeping kids safe in the shop, John breaks down how they’re developing the next generation of technicians by starting earlier than most.
Check out the full video version of the podcast on YouTube!
About the Episode
- Host: Jay Goninen, WrenchWay, [email protected]
- Guest: John Perez, Sonic Automotive, [email protected]
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Too Afraid to Ask
Select text to request an explanation
Our company had a policy that we didn't hire anyone under 18.
There's a lot of reasons for that.
There's a lot of issues that you have to consider, safety.
They can't sign the stuff that they have to sign in order
to drug in background, so you've got to involve mom and dad.
And I had tried to push it a little bit here, there.
This is not something that just happened in the last year or so.
This was four or five years in the making of me
trying to figure out how do we crack this now.
Beyond the Wrench with Jay Ginenin from Wrenchway.
Welcome to Beyond the Wrench.
My name is Jay Ginenin and I am your host.
Today, I'm joined by John Perez,
Senior Director of Talent Acquisition at Sonic Automotive.
John's been doing some really interesting work
around getting younger students,
even those that are under 18 years old,
involved in our industry.
What I love about this conversation is that
it didn't start with a, can we do this?
It started with a, how will we do this?
We'll talk about the hurdles they've had to overcome,
how they got leadership buy-in,
and the structure they put in place
to make a junior apprenticeship program possible.
It's a great example of how organizations
can think differently about building a pipeline
of future technicians.
Let's get into it.
John, how are you?
Good, how are you doing, Jay?
Good.
I started our conversation before I hit record
talking about the fact that
I rarely have Bears fans on, right?
Like, I don't know if I can handle them.
And here we go today.
For those that are listening and not watching on video,
John's got Bear's stuff all over the place in his background.
So I don't know if I can handle this, John.
Well, you know, you're just going to have to,
because, you know, the Bears are two in two
and things are looking up.
As we record this, I was just telling John
that I attended a Packers game,
which I, so if you don't know,
or if you haven't listened to the show in the past,
I'm a Packers fan from Wisconsin.
John's a Bears fan from Illinois.
Originally.
And we go back and forth on this all the time,
just like friendly rivalries do.
And it's always good to have the banter
and always good to have something to talk about, right?
Yep. Cheeseheads and furbies.
We won't talk about what furby means on this podcast.
It's a common Midwest reference
that I think most that have lived in this area
probably understand.
Yeah.
So how, how's everything?
How's everything at Sonic Automotive?
Things are good.
Coming off three really, really good quarters.
You know, it's been awesome
when our fixed operations team has been able to do
this year and last year.
Little side note, last year,
we hired over 800 technicians
for our company.
So it was a very busy year for my team.
It took a lot of work and a lot of effort
from a lot of people to do that.
So we're working on that work.
And we're seeing the fruits of that labor
through last year and this year.
Our fixed operations team is breaking company records.
So that's great.
And I think as we go through this,
you'll hear that it's not just
because you've been reactive and trying to find technicians.
We are doing some really, really proactive things, right?
You're doing some things that maybe a lot
of other dealer groups or shops in general aren't doing
and we'll dive into all that.
But I do want to start with
how you got your start and not a motive, right?
What was it that got you into this industry?
Yeah, it's a kind of a half.
It's not a straight line.
I started my career right out of college
at Enterprise Radicar.
So first five years,
I was in the management training program.
You know, I was a branch manager
at one of the rental offices in the Chicago area.
Several different branches, including the airport location.
That's a whole other story through another time.
And then about five years in,
I decided to take a chance at an opportunity
to be on the remarketing team.
And what the remarketing team does
is we plan the fleet by
for the region that you're in,
like when we're going to purchase cars,
when we're going to pull them out of fleet.
And then we have to sell them to dealers.
So my job was basically a wholesaler.
I hand sold about 2,000 cars a year
to different dealers,
went to auctions, things like that.
That's where I got the bug.
At one point in time,
through some family situation,
my wife and I decided to move our family to Florida,
and Enterprise did not have
an opportunity for me there at the same level,
and I just couldn't take the pay cut.
So my father-in-law
was the product knowledge trainer for Chrysler.
So he got me interviews at
six or seven different Chrysler Jeep Dodge stores,
and of course they all offered me a job at sales.
And I decided, you know what?
I want to stick around this business.
So I started at
one of our competitor stores,
weirdly enough,
to Sonic. I won't mention the brand.
Anyway,
in Brandon, Florida,
and I sold cars for about six months,
and then I got my opportunity
by talking to some of my bosses
and stuff there, what I used to do at Enterprise.
And they had what's called a buy team.
So a corporate buy team,
people go out and we go to the auctions and we buy cars.
So because of my
wholesale knowledge before, I was a perfect fit.
Also part of that team
purpose is to train you
to understand the use-car side of our business.
So they exposed us
to a lot of fleet planning
or not learned fleet, but inventory planning
at the dealership,
pricing cars right, things like that.
And then after about a year and a half
of doing that, I had an opportunity to come back
into the same store. I started that
with the assistant use-car manager.
And then about a year later,
the GM made a change and made me the use-car director.
So it was a crazy
five, six years that I was
with that organization.
Some decisions were made at the dealership level.
I don't want to get into it that
made me decide this isn't where I wanted to be anymore.
So I started my own wholesale business
with a business partner of mine
out of Fort Lauderdale.
It was a perfect setup.
He had dealers and a business
that was about four hours away from me.
I was in Tampa.
So we could stay out of each other's way
but take advantage of
maybe I will find a car
somewhere that one of his people would like better
and we could ship cars back and forth.
That went well for about
six and a half, almost seven years.
As the car business always does,
there were some disagreements.
I don't want to get into that either.
Anyway, I ended up deciding that
the way the wholesale business was heading
with a lot of the online
purchasing abilities for dealers
that wholesalers were kind of becoming
a thing of the past.
It was just getting harder and harder
to make the same money I had been used to.
I had to sell more cars
because the margins were getting less.
Anyway, long story short,
I had a daughter that was approaching 14 years of age.
I knew she was going to be going to college soon.
I needed
better health benefits.
We went through some health situations
with both my daughter and my wife
through the time.
And I was like, okay, I need to find a big company.
And then there was
an opportunity at Sonic Automotive
to be a trainer
for the company.
I'm like, I've never done training before in my life
but that same father-in-law
also knew some people
at the organization and he was like, I'll get you an interview.
And
well, behold, they hired me.
So I spent the first year
probably
two or three months traveling around the country
going into all of our dealerships
doing either
best practices training
sales training
our playbook
which we can get into that a little bit later
but we have our best practices manual
it's called our playbook.
We like sports metaphors around here.
We refer to each other as teammates
and things like that.
So I did that
for about another year in change
and then there was an opportunity that came along
because I'd done some
training development for our company
to be
the director of organizational development
which is a lot of
like change management
putting things in place for
how do we get from current state to future state
training content
development
a lot of things with that.
We were in the middle of
kind of trying to change our customer service model
and our customer experience
on how we've delivered that
try to shake up the industry a little bit
and be a little more customer centric
so there was a lot of things we needed to change
about how we did things
what we realized during that time is
we also needed to change
how we hire and who we hire
to fit that new model
so I had another opportunity
presented to me to be the director
of talent acquisition
for the company
and really start that from the bottom up
I will tell you
when I first got in there I was a little
surprised that
there was a lot of meat on the bone so to speak
there was a lot of things that we could do
to try to improve a lot of things
including hiring tax
and how we did that and the processes
we put in place for both candidate experience
and for the hiring manager experience
so I've been in
this position now for
I think going on almost 11
and a half years
you know started
with just myself I've got a team of
seven recruiters now that work for me
we put a lot of really cool things
in place one of those
is our high school
junior apprentice programs
that we're going to talk about
we're going to talk about it in a lot of detail
when you're coming up
I do want to ask about your transition
over your career from
going from the variable side to the fixed
side and maybe
how
different was it going from
one side to the other were there things
that translated over
was it not that unfamiliar
give me an idea of how that transition
was
well I think really helped me a lot
with understanding the fixed side of our business
and not only when I was a wholesaler
for the
other organization
buying cars
you got to understand
what it took to get a car through the shop
what the costs were
what things to see in a car that maybe is more expensive
to get ready and set up for sale
versus others
I had a teammate on that buy team
with me that was a former technician
I thought it was really wise of this group
to find somebody that was a former technician
to also go out with us to help us buy cars
he brought
a lot of knowledge with them to like
I hear something let's look under this hood
real quick or whatever
it really helped me to understand
what things may cost
and what problems might arise
from buying a certain car over another one
and then the second part of that was
is
being the used car director in the store
I had my own
recon department for just the used car team
we would probably
buy
or trade for and put through the shop
about 100 to 120 cars a month
so
I had two service riders
and eight technicians
that I didn't really manage because they had
their own boss which was the fixed operations director
but it was my job to
feed them work
make sure they could feed their families
make sure that we had good inventory on the lot
by working with those guys
daily it really opened my eyes
to what it takes to run
a service department what the technicians do
the hard work that they put through things
I jokingly used to go back to the shop
and talk to the guys
about a car they were working on and I would approach them
say okay doctor how's the patient
and they would just look at me I'm like you guys are doctors
I mean it's just because they're not bodies
but these are cars and
you have the knowledge
and experience
and all the skill
to take this car that maybe had some issues
and bring it to life and make it be a great
new buy for somebody
so that really helped
kind of and I didn't realize it then
what it was setting me up for but I do now
so I'm grateful for that
I think that
background
makes you uniquely qualified for
what you do right because you've seen
all elements
of a dealership and
you know how each department
affects or impacts the other departments
and how critical
it is you talked about teammates
and
if you have a really solid team
and you know very few weak links
you're going to have a more successful team
and I think it might
it might have affected
your approach in how you go
find that talent right because you're looking
for that specific person or you're looking
for that type of person that's going to fit
within the organization
and because you've got familiarity
with all of it
that has to help you out when you're
trying to truly identify
what it is that you're looking for.
100%
I had a really wise GM at the time
who kind of developed
a holistic pay plan
where he made you think about the whole store
not just your department
so for example
I had the main
part of my pay plan was designed around
the profitability of my used car department
right but
he also had an element in there where
if the service side of our business
hit their goals I also got a bonus
so how can I
help them get their goals so that
I can get more money right
we're very coin operated in our industry right
pay plan equals job description
he also put elements in there
that helped me try to make sure the new
car department got trades and made deals
so it really
taught all of us how to think of the whole store
and how does each
department impact each other
I thought that was a really good foundation for me
I agree
and I think a big part of that
strategy that you've really caught on to
is that it's not just
finding maybe those
experienced people but trying to come up
with a way to bring more of these
entry level people in
and really create a system where we can grow them
and I think that's a nice segue
into our topic of conversation
today and one thing I had said
in the intro that I want to
lead this off with is that
you didn't start with a can we
do this attitude but really
how do we do this attitude
and I give you so much credit for that
because I have told
you that
when I was working in
a dealership I didn't have that mentality
I was told that we couldn't hire
anybody under 18
and I kind of
took the leadership at their word
in terms of really
hey this is not an avenue that we can go down
but I think you saw
an opportunity that maybe not a lot
of people do
in finding these young people
and finding a system
to really bring them into and put some structure
around it
how did you kind of come to that mentality
or what drove that to
make you want to figure out ways
to figure this out?
Yeah well
I realized
early in my life that
if you just
ask and hope for something
you have less chance of getting what you want
than saying okay
we're going to make this happen so what does that look like
right like
how are we going to do this as you mentioned
and
I had been trying for a long time
trying to crack the technician hiring
so to speak
technicians are the lifeblood of our dealership
the service department
in my eyes
the most important part of the store
and if it's functioning well
the whole store is healthy
and
I had been trying to figure out how do we
hire techs out of tech schools
and all that kind of stuff and then
I got the thought in my head
there's this whole untapped
talent pool
of people
that nobody else is fishing in
and that is these younger people
that are in high school
that are already showing
a
like or a interest
in becoming a technician
and working with their hands and
not everyone has to go to a four year college
in order to be successful
both of my parents are very successful
neither one of them went to
or finished college
thinking back that was
seed that was planted into my head
and I'm like okay
so how do we go about doing this
because most of them are under 18
and there's a lot of
you know our company had
a policy that we didn't hire anyone under 18
there's a lot of reasons for that
you know there's a lot of
issues that you have to consider safety
they can't sign
the stuff that they have to sign
in order to do drug and background
kind of stuff so you got to involve mom and dad
and all those kinds of things
and I had tried to
push it a little bit here there
this is not something that just happened
in the last year
so this was you know four or five years
in the making of me trying to figure out how to
we crack this nut
and then
I got a little bit of a green light
and some
backing from our senior leadership that were saying
yeah I think we do need to think about
where else can we go get technicians
because the number of people that
are leaving our industry versus the number of people that
were entering it
that gap is widening and widening
so like we don't solve this problem
it's just going to roll up on us
so once I got the
yeah
figure this out
from somebody with a much bigger business card
than mine in the organization
I was like okay now it's not
can we it's how do we do this
and I knew there were
several departments
I needed to engage I knew I needed to engage
our HR team because we had to figure out
that part I just mentioned about
them being under 18 and signing the consent forms
I knew I needed to reach out
to our risk management team and get them
on board and involved
because we have to worry about what the safety
of these younger people looks like
right I knew I needed to get legal
involved because there was going to be some sort of thing
where the parents had to sign off on
and then obviously HR I said that before
and then
find some dealers that were
wanting to participate
so
first step I did was I went
to risk management
and I was like okay
we're going to be developing a high school
apprentice program where we hire kids that are under 16
what would that look like
for you not
can we do this are you okay with it
but we're going to be doing this
so what are things that you need to think
about in order for you to be okay
with this right to do this
and that kind of changed their mindset
from just
no because it's scary and they
don't want to do it to
well and they started listing all the things
that we need to think about well we need to pick stores
that are performing
well in what we call
our risk management playbook I mentioned
earlier we have our best practices manual
we do audits of all of our stores
every year
and all the key parts of our playbook
so we send people out to make sure they're following
our playbook
so I'm like okay great yeah so we'll pick stores
that are doing a really good job
at the safety part
safety compliance
part of our risk management playbook
and say we'll start with them
because then there's a little bit less
risk there
or Harper and overdoing that
and once I got that yes I said okay
how about we start
in Charlotte because I live here
in Charlotte and it would be easy for me to go to the
stores and be real hands on
and with the first few stores
we started this with
and they're like yeah all the stores in Charlotte
are top notch in the playbook
I'm like great so we'll start with those four stores
they're like okay I said
then what do you need next like well we're just going to go
in and do a final like
check of all the stores real quick
and get them all to sign up
on this thing that they understand that they're going to be
having high school kids in the store
before you do that let me talk to the store
right so I got that box
checked
then I went to HR and said
okay we're going to be doing this
what needs to happen in order for
these kids to sign off
and be able to go through our hiring process
not can they do this but
what do we have to do
and they started thinking okay
we need to make sure
that there's some sort of consent form that mom
and dad can sign off on their behalf
we want the parents to be involved in
the interview and selection process
I'm like okay we can do all of that
so now I had that box checked
and then that turned into conversations
with legal on how to draft those things
right
and then it turned into okay before you guys run off
we talked to any of the stores I need to start putting
some dots and bolts behind what does this program
look like now that I have all those box checked
right so then
we started developing okay
what's the point of this program
and really
if we go back a little bit the why
behind this really the why
besides you know planning
technicians for our stores
our company is really big on community
involvement so
any way that we can like partner with
local high schools
I know this it's expensive for these schools
to have these automotive programs
right so
what can we do to partner with these schools
and try to
help them with their programs
so
I've
heard about a technician
competition high school
technician competition that was being held at the racetrack
here which is really awesome
for the kids if you think about it they get to work
in the same garage as all the NASCAR technicians
work on the car so they're excited
and there was a way
to sponsor be a sponsor
for it and be involved
so part of the competition
was is that they had a mock interview
section where the kids were graded
on how well they did
by employers like us
so I said yeah I'm in I want to do
that and then
these kids had two hours
teams of three
they all had
there were like 20 different problems
the car could have that they should all know
how to repair based on where they are
in their high school program
they weren't told what they would have
and it was randomly selected
and
but there were going to be three problems
that the car had they had to diagnose it
use the systems that they had learned
on how to like order the parts from the
parts department through the computer and all that
get the parts delivered
put them on and then have the car
run properly and then it was checked by a judge
so they got points
and scored on how they did that
and at the end of the day they had
a big awards ceremony
where they
ranked the one, two and three
place teams
and I took that opportunity to watch
and see which schools did the best
because I wanted the best programs
and I happened to talk
to a couple of the instructors
and
for these schools while we were there
I was thinking about doing
and I got really lucky because
one of the guys who won his team
was not only in charge of the program
for his school but he was the director
over the automotive program for all of
Charlotte and Mecklenburg school system
and I was like yes, Peter
anyway we started several conversations
and visited them at the school
and it didn't start
with just how do we get your kids
to come work at our place
but what do you need
to do that?
Yeah
I want to stop you there for a second
because I think
what you just mentioned is so
important for our
industry to understand which is that
you didn't go in
asking for things right off the bat
you went in with the approach
of how do I help you
and I think
that changes the conversation
so much on its own
that mentality and you're going into it
wanting to help their program
they're going to look at you in a different light
it's not just another
shop that's coming and begging for text
you're going in and saying
how do I make this program stronger
so that we're stronger as an industry
and man I can't
tell you the impact that probably had
Well
when I talk to
the instructor
he's like yeah everybody comes in here and says
I have students all the time
I'm sure they do
I want that too
I also want to know
as I'm getting this off the ground
I have thoughts in my head
about how this program could work
and I was like can you give me your curriculum
for your sophomore, junior, senior
students
because what I'd like to do as much as possible
is whatever we have
whatever you're teaching in school
so they go classroom
they have limited hands-on
because there's not enough hours in the day
they go to that class one hour a day
and there's probably 12-15 kids in the class
that are doing it
how can we say okay you're working on
exhaust
let's make sure that they're doing that
in the shop with the mentor tech
if we can make that happen
so that we can make it
classroom hands-on
classroom hands-on real life
like actually working on
master tech work on
a customer's car
and he was like okay
there's something here
and I saw his eyes perk up
and be like okay
so we started these conversations
and then he's like well
you know
we need people to come in and talk to these kids
about what a career would look like
and I'm like done
I have time as something I definitely can give you
so we started coming in and talking to them
and I brought in
one of the service managers
because he knows he can speak their language a lot more than I can
you know by a long shot
and he kind of give them an idea
of what a career would be like
an automotive what to expect
how when you graduate from high school
and you're looking for a job
not only what is the dealership
looking for in you but how do you interview
the store to make sure it's a good fit
for you right
what is the long-term plan
do they offer all those kinds of things
we got them a tire machine
because the one they have is just leaking air
like crazy
for some reason he needed
some new drill bits
so we got a box of those
we hooked him up with
some safety equipment
so like the I've washed stuff that the schools need
anyway we just
started talking about what do you need
what can we give you
and then from that we said okay
this program is going to look like
so we can start hiring some of your kids
so I wanted to make sure
that this wasn't just something
where a lot of times kids
coming out of regular tech school even
will get hired on as a lube tech
and they just get forgotten
you know it's a shame
but it happens and it's not
anything anybody means to do it just happens
so I was like okay
how can we put some bite
into this program
I'm like okay well
we can pay them
$15 an hour straight away
so that's one thing
we'll do that
we're going to make sure that while they're
in high school
and still under 18
we can't send them off to any
brand specific manufacturer
training but they can take all the online courses
that are possible
so they can start getting some of those certifications
we can have them
take their ASC certifications
and pay for that for them
so they don't have to pay for the testing
and all that I mean why not
we're getting some out of it too
because their skills are growing
then okay these kids
probably don't have a tool
so how are we going to help that
so we bought
decided to buy each one of them
a 3 drawer toolbox cart
and a 182 piece
they called it like the quick lube
starter kit
total is probably about
$3,800
total when you consider the value
and they get to keep that
if they finish the full program
and work for us
full time after they graduate
for at least a year
so that's all there is
yeah
and then talking to my risk management team
I found out even if they are part-time
we can offer them to participate
in our shoe program
so we offer all of our employees
in the entire company
mostly it's for our technicians
twice a year they get
so much money towards
safety shoes
so we could have them
participate in that as well
and I'm like this is great
mom and dad are going to love to hear
that we're thinking about their kid
when we do this
we have that together
okay what does it look like after they finish high school
and we're like okay
they're automatically going to get bumped
during this time
when they're taking their ASCs
and the online courses
when they graduate high school
they should be earning at least $20 an hour
straight away
then once they've completed high school
and they've completed
those parts of the program
they come work for us full time
to get their other certifications
now every brand is a little different
so some brands offer a little bit more
of the online versus others
but the idea would be
that after they're done with high school
and after they've done at least
three years with us
full time
for example the Toyota stores
one of the first stores we did
they should be able to achieve the status
of master diagnostic technician
and then
based on that
the plan was to increase their pay
as they earn each of those certifications
by the time they're two to three years out of high school
five years total in our program
they should be making about
20, I think it was 28
to $30 an hour
flat rate hour
and just to give you the idea
we have our first kid
that went through the program
he came in as a senior
so he only got one year in high school
third year so it's second year out
and he's on pace to make about
$80 to $85,000 this year
that is awesome
I absolutely love to hear that
yeah
and
that's just a great win
I get goosebumps and I get excited
when I hear those kinds of things
his partner that started with him
is right behind him in the upper 70s
so
and those were the first two kids to get in
and to go through
being this is about our third year
and to be as far as they are
since then we've had
seven or eight other
dealerships
participate in the program
and we've had
I think as close to 20 participants
that is
so cool
I mean as you're talking through the program
there's so many benefits
to everybody involved
I don't think there's
an element here
that is suffering
and when you think about it
you look at that
executive buy-in to start with
that is so so important
I give your executive team a lot of credit
for maybe thinking differently
than a lot of people do
there is the
compliance side
there is the HR side
and being able to piece all of this together
is so amazing
but then when you take that even deeper
and you look at the relationship
with the schools that's growing
and the fact that you are
more appealing to those younger people
there's data all over the place
talking about the earlier you get
somebody started in this career
or any career
the more likely they are to stick
because they've really grown into the fabric
that you are as a company
so you look at this all the way
the steps it takes to get that person in
there's a lot going on there
and we'll talk
a little bit more about the how
but I just wanted to point out
really
one, give your executive leadership team
a huge pat on the back
because for them to
think differently about this
is so important
and it truly is starting to attack
the core of the problem rather than
just trying to duct tape this forever
and I think that's the approach that a lot
of shops have is really
trying to
always look for that A level
master tech
when there's limitations on how many
people are even out there to start with
so what are we doing at the core
to do this in a healthy way
where it does
have a positive impact on the industry
as a whole and man I just can't tell you
as you're talking through all of this
how much of a fan I am
that type of approach because that
that is what we need to kind of
move the industry in the right direction
yeah 100%
and one of the cool things
that came from this is you know we highlighted
the first couple of kids that went through it and we posted
some things on LinkedIn to kind of talk about
what we're doing in our community
and stuff like that and
they interviewed the
one of the key parts I want to take a step back for a second
is making sure you select the right
master tech as the mentor
amen
so and you know it's no knock
there's plenty of master techs out there that are
fantastic master techs wonderful people
it's just they don't want to teach
I'm part of what makes them so good
as they're so laser focused on what they're doing
so picking the right
mentor tech is important
but during this process of interviewing
the student, his parents
and the mentor tech
for the article we were going to put out
one of the people
in our group just said you have no idea
how much you're changing these kids' lives
to the mentor tech and he's like
no he's changing mine
and it's
that was just a cool thing to hear him say
and so that store
now has four kids in the program at all times
and they have two of the master techs
for the mentors and
those four kids
those two master techs and the two that
already went through the start of the program so that group
of what eight people
they lunch together they hang out
those guys are part of the crew in the shop
I mean it they're the part of the fabric
of the dealership
and it's just an awesome thing to see
like I didn't think about that when I started
this but like that's a great
like accidental byproduct you know
yeah I mean it adds
to your why when you're able to see
the
community that you're creating right it
it goes beyond just somebody having a
job but really true relationships
that will probably last a lifetime
or a lot of them will and
you know I think
I think that's so neat
how much do technicians really make
at wrenchway we work
with some of the best shops and dealerships
across the country and we've discovered
that technicians often earn more
than what some online sources
suggest for example
the bureau of labor statistics reports
that technicians make an average of
forty seven thousand dollars per year
but we know that's not reflective
of the true earning potential of technicians
we've teamed up with
ASC to create an online
technician pay tool a free
easy to use resource for both
aspiring technicians and
those already in the automotive and diesel
industries this tool lets you
explore real pay data
with customizable searches by industry
shop type location and experience
level check it out
at wrenchway.com
pay or follow the link in the show
notes we also encourage
current technicians to anonymously
submit their own pay data to help
make the tool even better for everyone
lastly
thank you for your continued support as
we work to promote and improve careers
in automotive and diesel
we couldn't do it without you
now one thing I do want to ask is
what kind of difficulties
or maybe you didn't have as many
but I talked to a lot of
a lot of people in the industry
that have a desire to
put a program in place like this but
when you have as many
locations as you do
trying to get the buy
in at the GM level
or at that service manager
level and I've heard it myself where
I've had service managers straight up
tell me well I'm not a babysitter
I'm not bringing in a young person and
I'm like oh you're missing the
point
yeah yeah
I have one of those things where my
thought always is just because it's hard
if it's worth doing doesn't mean you don't do it
like just because it's hard
um
so one of the difficulties I had
for myself
was understanding we needed to slow
it down like so many times
organizations will come up
with a great idea and they're just
so quick to launch it and get it out there
that they don't really think
about all of the unintended consequences
all of the little things
that you need to make sure you get right
and it gets out
there and it's launched and then it falls apart
so being
disciplined about I'm going to select
four local stores I started with one
and I knew I was going to go to the other three
eventually
talking to that service manager who was
already kind of bought in
and was one of you know really good service
manager of ours and say okay this is
a good partner to start with
and then when they started having success
everybody else FOMO right everybody wants
in once they see that
but then still keeping it slow because
there was a lot of moving parts
and I knew I needed to manage
remember we talked before about
these kids get forgotten sometimes
I wanted to make sure that I created
a spreadsheet so I knew what the students name was
who the master tech was what certifications
had they taken online already
where were they at in their progress
check in with the service manager
because what part of the program too is
once a week at least
the mentor tech
the student and the service manager
sit down for five ten minutes and just talk about
what they did this week
just a checking like how's it going
what do you need to work on hey
you know you're showing to work out by time good job
just that the other thing
what are you learning in school so we can try to find
that kind of work and give it to your master
tech mentor to make sure you
work on it
so keep the track of all that I knew if it was
just shotgun blasted out to all hundred and eighteen
of our stores at once it was going to be like
impossible to keep control of
that animal
but then once we started having success
at these stores here
people started hearing about it
and I started getting phone calls from service manager
saying hey I want to do this
weird how that happens
well I'm kind of letting it come
to me rather than try to go out
and that once that grows and grows
and grows like any fire it just
starts roaring
and like I said we're on our third year and the first
year was very small the two students
at the one shop
and then they expanded into the rest of Charlotte
and like I said now it's to all these other stores
that organic growth though I think
I don't want to overlook that part
either because
having the approach where
it's almost the same vein as marketing
some people will try a marketing
plan and it doesn't work after
two weeks and they're frustrated
and they don't continue
having marketing budget then
or that's a very
specific example but I see it a lot
with businesses
I think the same thing happens
with technicians where
if you're not looking at it through
that long-term lens
it can be very damaging to you
as an organization because
you oftentimes will get frustrated
or maybe you even bring in that one student
and it doesn't work out with that student
you think all students are in that same boat
and nothing could be further from the truth
right they're all individuals they all
have different learning capabilities
but if you're looking at it holistically
and you're looking at it from
the lens that hey
if we get this right we have an impact
on our organization for
decades to come because it's not
just a
this is a
a program that we're going to run for a few months
and then see how it's going
and if it's not working or there's
some struggle with it that we're just
going to give up it's a commitment to
we're putting a program
in place that is foundational
to our entire business
and by doing that
I think your approach was
very
very complimentary of that
that thinking right of
that this isn't an overnight thing
and by starting small you can
kind of maybe work out some of the kinks
and some of the things that
that aren't going to work or maybe
this is a barrier that we can't get by
but as you're doing that
I have to imagine you're learning
the entire time you're taking
kind of the feedback that the managers
are giving you you're taking the feedback that
that young technician is giving
you and and really being able
to refine the program
a little bit to make it work for all parties
oh absolutely
you know slow and steady
wins the race right
and there's going to be hiccups
along the way you just got to
you know call what we call it game
film afterwards you know
look it over okay what can we do
different next time and move on
every brand is different
so we're also learning
like what does that look like for Mercedes Benz
versus Toyota versus Ford
versus Chevy so
you got to be open to
being flexible
with the framework
of the tiny specifics
within the program to
fit the market area
and or the brands you know
we started with Toyota
and it was great well the next
store we did was a Ford store so that
was a little different right
some schools have programs
were if you register with the local
school district these kids can leave at 1130
if they're seniors
now they get more time in your store
right because the other kids
may get out at 2 33 o'clock
and the shop may only be open till 6 or so
you know you only get them
for a couple hours a day and a lot of them
were working on Saturdays
and then in summer and on breaks they can work a little
more so how does that work out
right because we also have to remember
these kids are high school students first
right
that have an interest in becoming a tech
so how do we blend their high school life
and some of them want to play sports and stuff too
you know you have to be flexible
with that right
that's tough I mean
all the different variables how
as you're coming up with a program
how do you provide the flexibility
to adapt to whatever that
needs are
well and one of the things
the only parameter I put
on the students in the store
is we can't have them work full time
just some things we couldn't
overcome as far as
benefits and things like that
for them being under a certain age
so really the only cap
is you know they can't work more than 30
or 35 hours a week
but it's okay if they can only work
8 hours
every day
right because they got homework and stuff to do too
or like I said they have sports
and things don't count them
out if they can only work for you on Saturday
because they have football practice every day
in a game on Friday night
to let them come in on Saturday
you know so flexibility
and being open minded to those
kinds of things is definitely key
for doing something like this
how do you get
them in the doors
and keep them safe
right like I think
that's a big concern even from the parent's perspective
to if I'm sending my child
into a shop I want to make sure that
you're not doing anything that they shouldn't
be doing that would result in
something bad happening and
you know it's
the job itself I feel like it's gotten
so much safer over the years
in some elements and I think
that's helpful
but there's some element
sure that you have to think through that
right and making sure that there's structure
around each individual as they come in
to make sure they're as safe as humanly
possible. Yeah 100%
and as I mentioned before one of the first things
I did was go to our risk management team right
so
we knew we wanted to involve mom
and dad in the selection
process
so
we started obviously with the teacher and the students
who's interested somebody raises
their hand we say okay we would love to
have a visit with you
and a parent or guardian
to come to the shop meet the service manager
walk around the shop
so that the parents can see where their child
is going to be working right meet
the service manager that's going to be responsible
for keeping their child safe
right that's important then part
of that meeting is we go over
with them a commitment to safety
letter that we have
where the service manager and the risk management
person has signed off on it already
it outlines all of the safety
training we're going to provide their child that we provide
all of our employees that work in
our shop and that one of the first
things they do when they start working is
they don't go right into the shop and start
hanging out with tech they take those
safety training courses that we provide all of
our demons
so
mom and dad get to see that we're putting
that first
and not just trying to get
out of them work
right it's a long it's a long game
that we're playing like we want
that to be the foundation
then they start just watching
the master tech not actually putting hands on
we make sure that they have their safety glasses
and the proper clothing and shoes and
they get uniforms and everything
and then the master tech spends a lot of time
intentionally
talking to them about we're going to work on
this but we're going to do
this first we're going to check the lift
we're going to make sure it's
safe before we work on this is why
we do that
right and be intentional with how we
do that and
I every time
we've brought mom and dad in and
we talked about those kinds of things you
can almost see their shoulders drop back like
okay I feel good about this
right not one
we have not had an incident with any
nice little kids right
but
part of the reason why we picked the stores
that are already safety
and risk focused
to participate and if you are
under a certain level in our audit you
cannot participate in the program until
you change your ways
so
only thing risk management said they wanted
and they looked at it too as an opportunity
for them to push their playbook
adherence to it
out to the stores
I was grateful for
their leader to see it as a carrot not a
stick
if you want to participate you have to
make sure you're following our playbook
and it was a way for them to get people
to do a better job at just being safer
in general in the shop
I think that is fantastic
and
what I do really really like about that
is that you are training
these students
on the right way to do things
to have when you're in the shop
so you don't put yourself in a precarious
position where you are
proactively looking at safety
and I think the earlier you
can train somebody on that the more
that becomes ingrained in them
throughout their careers right
it's something that they are taught
at an early level
that there is a right way to do this
and not following the directions and not following
the right way to do it
is not good for you
I just
I hadn't thought about that element
of it until you just said that
of the earlier you train
those safety habits the better off they are
going to be over the course of their career
and they just become exactly that habits
they don't even think about it anymore
you know it's not a rush
to turn in more hours
by cutting a corner
that may end up putting you out of work
for a week
this is fantastic
can't get over how much I love this program
now one last question
then I have to go to a rapid fire
questions
how have those parent conversations
gone have there been
some that have come in almost
cautious over
wanting their child to enter this industry
or maybe somebody that's
not loving the fact that
their family or that their child
wants to be a technician
yeah so
for the most part no
so
being that it's early on and we've only had
like I said about 20 participants total
and I haven't been at the store
for every one of those conversations
because some of them are in other states
but
we've only had a couple incidents where
maybe mom and dad really wanted
son or daughter to go to a four year college
instead of becoming a technician
and didn't understand their child's passion
but very quickly
after we explain
to them what we're going to pour into their child
the training that they're going to get
and have them talk to the master tech
like the meeting is not just with the service manager
it's also with this is the person that's going to be
training and teaching your child
and
talking to them about
yes how much money they make
where they live
the boats they have the house and the mountains
and be like
wow so
you can really make that kind of a living
in this industry well yeah maybe I do want
my child to do this right
and I don't have to spend 200 grand
on a four year degree
and for some people that they need to do that first
and then come back
I'm open
to even a student coming working
for us part time
knowing that they may go out to college
I get two years to convince them
otherwise
two years to decide this isn't for me
and that's good for both of us too
it's not just
about jamming them into our system
but they get a chance to find out
is this really what I want to do
finding the right fit
I think even
at that early age especially at that early age
because you are going to put a lot of training
and effort and
just
you care about these people and you want to see them
do well and I think
taking that initial
step very seriously especially
at the student level and making sure that when you're
bringing somebody in that they fit your culture
they fit who you are as a company
and that they actually like
what they're going to do you know
how many times have we heard about
that person that goes
to trade school and then comes into the industry
buys $10,000
or $20,000 with the tools right off the bat
and then a year into it
says I don't like this I don't want to do this anymore
and it's heartbreaking because you don't want anybody
to come in
and go through that pain of putting
themselves in unnecessary debt
if this isn't truly what they want to do
and same
same thing on the shop side
you don't want to put all that time and effort into somebody
that doesn't realistically have a future
in this industry and
I think there's so much
that I really enjoyed
about this conversation
and hearing how
you're going about this
why you wanted to do it in the first place
and you know I think
there are so many others in our industry
that could learn from everything that you're doing
because even though it is
only those 20 to start
you've got a better base than most
and you've got now a program
to build off of
for the future that
doesn't happen overnight
it takes intentionality it takes time to plan
it takes a lot of time just to
have those conversations to
convince people that this is the right path
to go down
I give you so so much credit
for that and
it is
to me
at the core of what brings me joy in the industry
is being able to
hear stories of people that are
doing things differently and moving the industry
in a better direction and this is
all of that and more
I just
met you and the organization
any more than I am
it is huge for our industry
well
I can't take all the credit because it's been a lot of help
from a lot of different people a lot of different departments
especially those service managers
that have embraced the program
especially Mr. Eddie's
I want to call out for who is the first
service manager at our Toyota store
here in Charlotte
to say yes
you know pick me I'll do it
Eddie you're the man
we need more Eddie's in this world
yes he's been an awesome partner in all of this
and you know we can have you back
we can talk about how this program
has blended into our regular apprentice program
for those kids that go to tech schools
so that's a
this could be a series John I think we'll just
keep going with the conversation
I really really really love this
and so I do
as we end shows
have three rapid fire questions
for you
really have nothing to do with anything we've talked
about so far in the show but we're
we're going to see what your answers are
all right question is
if you weren't doing this job what would you
be doing
you know
I've had so many different jobs over the years
I joke around and tell people I can't keep a job
I have a feeling that if I hadn't gone down this
track I'd be doing some sort of job
in sales
it's just where I started
and
I've always had the gift of gap
in no way am I surprised by that by the way
yes you're
you're a very good conversationalist
I always
I think every time we get together it's always a
fun talk
what was your very first job
oh boy well
there were okay if we go all the way back
I won't count paper boys that's not a real job
I started two jobs
at about the same time one was
a job that fit my high school
schedule because I played
football, baseball and basketball
it was a
busboy and dishwasher
at a country club banquet hall
because they allowed us to work
just Saturday nights and Sunday
during the day so it fit
my schedule and at the same time
my dad had a janitorial business
and I used to clean office buildings for him
at night after I got home from practice
so
those are good jobs I mean if you think
about even the paper boy one
you'd be shocked at how many guests we
have that
did a paper route and
I think
it instilled some good habits in terms
of
routine and what time you have to get up
you're not getting up very late in the morning right
you're getting up and getting over
papers on your bicycle in a
Chicago winner is not fun
not recommended
it was a rural route I only had 27 papers
and it was about a 10 mile bike
ride
that is
those Chicago winters
are tough that would
if nothing else make you tough right
yeah right builds character
last question
what time do you get up in the morning
depends on how
much I'm
involved in my
workout routine
typically
there was a time when I would get up at about 5
30
and drive to the office because we have a gym at the office
and we have a trainer on staff there
that's free of charge for employees
and work out with him from 6 to 7
and then be at
my desk by 7 30
since COVID and we're all home I haven't been
going into the office as much
and on a good day I'll get up at 7
go run
work out a little bit and be at my desk
by about 8 30
so that's not bad though
I think I'm not a morning person at
all though I have to
drive myself out of the bed
to do it
I do really enjoy hearing the answers to
that question and
I talk a lot about routine on this
podcast and
I think routine is important
but it's also just fun to hear
what people do
and how their mornings
vary and
I myself could do
much better on that exercise routine
and I think that's
been something I've been telling myself for quite a few years now
so I need to actually just do it
at some point
I did my first Spartan race this year
I didn't know that
I don't
halfway through I started questioning
my decision making process
but I finished it
that's super
impressive
I've seen
the photos
online and the videos of people
doing that that does not look easy
it's not fun
there's obstacles I couldn't finish
but there's penalties
and one of the penalties is doing 30
burpees I hate burpees
ooh
the other penalty is you might have to run
an extra loop
aside from the regular rest of the run
around
that obstacle
uneven terrain back
so I was supposed to be like a 5k run
I ended up on my
watch because of the penalties that I had to do
my running watch ended up running almost
4.2 miles
instead of 3.1
so
yeah I didn't say I completed all of them
but I did finish the race
you finished the race which
I think is
a big testament to you
and your
desire to always improve
and get better right and I think
just in general
I talked about it when we talked about
you know
your personality and how easy
you are to talk to
every conversation I have with you is
incredibly enjoyable this has been
just phenomenal
the information that you've come on
and been willing to share I think
is transformative for the industry
I think there are a lot of people
that should listen to this podcast
and listen to what you had to say
because you went through a lot of the things
that a lot of the others need to go through
and we need to get better at this as an industry
we need to pull the whole industry needs
to pull more people into it right
and we've got to work together to do that
so I just
give you
respect for you in going down
this road
and really pushing the limits on
things like this that need
to happen so
although you're a Bears fan
I am always
looking forward to talking to you and then
this was just such a fun recording
I appreciate
being here and the ability to talk about this
and honestly back at you
like providing this platform for these kinds
of conversations
we're very much needed in our industry
and I'm very appreciative of you doing that
so thank you
alright hopefully we'll do it again
yeah we'll make sure it happens
alright well thanks
thanks so much for joining us John
hope you enjoyed this episode
and hopefully we get John back on again
to do it again soon
take care
that wraps up another episode of Beyond
the Wrench if you like this episode
please show your support by rating
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on Wrenchways YouTube channel
speaking of Wrenchway did you know Beyond
the Wrench is managed and produced by
the Wrenchway team
Wrenchway is an online community
dedicated to promoting and improving
automotive and diesel careers
we help technicians find the best shops
to work at and we also help
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get more support from local industry
you can learn more by visiting
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