Honda Prelude, Lamborghini Temerario, the Ford Maverick We Need, and is the Lightning Dead?

Hello and welcome to the AutoGuide show this week.

I drive a Lamborghini, Greg drives one of the most anticipated cars of the year, Ford

builds something we've been begging for, and there may be a surprise vehicle being discontinued,

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Okay, so we will kick things off with a vehicle that has been talked about ever since Honda

said they're bringing you back, the Prelude.

And guess what?

People have finally driven it, including Greg.

Sadly, you and I have not.

We are both waiting and waiting.

Being probably, I would say, sometime in the new year, we'll get behind the wheel.

Shortly after the new year, yeah.

Yeah, well, I don't know if they'll put it on in the winter.

They might wait till spring.

Oh, I mean, I'm supposed to go drive it at some point in January.

Oh, well, I guess I'll be driving in the spring.

That's right.

So, reading Greg's review and talking to others that have driven it, it all seems pretty

much the same and only kind of expected.

The Civic Type R parts, of course, work really well on the Civic.

And surprise, surprise, they work amazing here.

This is like what the Prelude was.

It handles great.

It apparently just tackles corners and rips them apart.

The issue, I guess, or the part that's not up to the same capability as the handling

is the straight line speed.

So no surprises.

I mean, not like the old Prelude was a rocket, but at least it had that sort of visceral,

rip-in-through-the-gears and VTEC and the sound, whereas this is just kind of, hits

up to wherever the power peak is and holds it.

Yeah, but I don't know, I mean, obviously I haven't driven it yet.

I don't have to wait a little bit longer, but I feel like the Prelude, the last one

that we had, yeah, it was fairly powerful and you had a five-speed manual and you could

rip through the gears.

But I always thought that was kind of secondary to the point of it being kind of a luxury

coupe, right?

Like, it was definitely softer and bigger than other Honda two-doors, and that's sort

of what this is now, except it's not necessarily bigger.

It's a civic coupe, but with a hybrid powertrain.

And so I read Greg's review a little bit this morning and, yeah, I'm stuck kind of where

he is, where I'm maybe a little slightly disappointed because, yeah, a little bit more power would

have been nice.

Like, just to separate this from a civic in terms of numbers.

But otherwise, I actually think this is a really good idea.

I just don't think it's going to sell very well.

I think a coupe version of the civic hybrid actually works really well because the hybrid

is a great everyday platform, not necessarily the most exciting and engaging, but still

like incredible gas mileage, right?

So you get something that's very stylish.

The interior looks great.

That two-tone leather looks awesome.

So it has parts that appeal to me.

I just think, yeah, like people who want a more thrilling enthusiast vehicle are maybe

going to look elsewhere.

Yeah, and that's just part of the, like you said, maybe shouldn't be called

Paralyzed, like civic coupe, because I remember the Paralyzed a little different

than you do.

I remember being softer.

I remember it actually being more hardcore than the civic coupe of its era.

It was constantly considered the best handling front-wheel drive car and the fastest, like

track front-wheel drive car of its era.

And the engine wasn't fast or anything, but it was semi unique to the vehicle.

It was a kind of special and like you said, they could have done it with this

drivetrain if they gave it another 20 horsepower somehow.

I mean, I'm just making numbers up.

Like it's not like you can just pull it out of thin air, but I don't know, bigger

hybrid motor, who knows.

But yeah, it just, it kind of feels like or it sounds like it's a terrific car, but

it's missing one ingredient.

And like you said, we have to drive it to really know.

People may be just getting hung up that it is a hybrid and CVT.

So you kind of go in already with that.

Well, this isn't going to work expectation, but at the same time, I mean, I owned

a CVT WRX and it was still a really good car.

But after a while, you're like, OK, this is sort of the taking some of the fun

out of the equation, even if you can manually control it.

Yeah, like you get up to the peak level of involvement pretty quickly, right?

Like it's nice that you get there, but then you're capped.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Like the prelude wasn't the fastest car around the track either.

It was just so engaging and well handling.

And I think that's part of the fun of changing your gear.

Just, you know, you're fully in there and this one, I'm sure it's quicker,

but are you having more fun and like you said, is it going to sell?

Because I don't want to know what the price you might end up being on this thing.

We'll find out.

Yeah, so, I mean, yeah, it's also a start.

Maybe they will bring something else out.

But I don't know if you saw a report that we posted today or yesterday

that Honda said there's no way a manual transmission can fit in this car.

So that's exactly what I always thought because of the way

their hybrid transmission setup is, but it's just sad hearing it officially.

Anyway, aftermarket, do your thing.

It's a vast and rocket piece.

Oh, all right.

So moving on to something else that doesn't come in manual, but I don't care.

I was in Italy last week, like I said, last week on the show

and I have published the review of the Lamborghini Temerario,

which is, I guess, the entry level Lamborghini.

But that sounds weird saying that because it's well,

there's nothing entry level about it.

It's the smaller one.

The Eurus entry level Lamborghini.

Yeah, I'm talking cars.

Where's your right? Oh, yeah, that's that.

Yeah, that is the most affordable yet the biggest, which whatever.

So this is what replaces the Erkan, which replaced the Gallardo,

which was sort of the more smaller, more track orientated Lamborghini.

I always found this and that's exactly what this thing is.

I got to luckily drive it back to back with the realtor, which you drove.

So yes, I've experienced in that thing.

And that thing is such a fantastic, ridiculously fast, grippy,

like super car grand tour, like you just get in that thing and

eat up inches and just eat up miles of road and fantastic soundtrack or whatnot.

This car, the Temerario is way more on the edge.

It is meant for track days,

canyon carving, going up mountain switchbacks, whatever you like to do.

It's it doesn't have that exhaust thing that the this bigger sibling does.

You can adjust the volume of it.

But when you're in one of the louder settings, if you're under 3,000 RPM,

it doesn't kind of quiet us off down and regular driving.

It's always on and it goes to 10,000 RPM, which is ridiculous for VA.

Never mind one that also has a turbocharger and a hybrid system hooked up to it.

Like it's just this ridiculous engineering feat.

And when you punch it, it actually feels quicker than the Roto.

But it isn't like the times are very similar, which makes sense,

because this is about 250 pounds lighter, 3,700 and change.

And it's got over 900 horsepower still,

which is like the smaller Lambo is over 900 because the big guy has over a thousand now.

So it makes sense why the stats are similar.

But that instant electric torque plus the turbo boost, it lets you go.

And because this is one of those hybrids where the front wheels are in no way

connected to the rear wheels, it's just fully controlled by its own electric motor.

It can get squirrely when you punch it, you got to be concentrating and holding on

because it wants to start darting side to side, depending on imperfections of the road.

And I guess that's a downside of not having a mechanical connection.

Computers can be as smart as they want, but I don't know if it needs to be.

I don't think it's just it's crazy.

I mean, maybe there's no more tuning you can do.

It's got over 900 horsepower.

Like what can you do?

But when you get over 6000 RPM, the people at Lamborghini kept telling us

like you need to really drive a hard ref it.

It sounds amazing from 6000 to 10,000.

But under 3000, you just hear clacking and like raw engine noise.

And it's right behind your shoulder, like all Lamborghinis.

But I think this one, the firewall is made out of tissue paper.

Like it's so loudly in your ear, not the exhaust noise, just the engine noise.

And they can't drive at 6000 RPM all the time.

I mean, even driving at like 4000, where it sounds a little better,

going through small town towns like they love it.

They you're like a celebrity in a Lamborghini, but you just feel weird

like going through town going by like 20 miles an hour.

So other than that, it's got a bigger cabin.

So it's easier to get into.

I have more headroom.

I'm no longer looking half at the windshield, half at the roof liner.

I can see around corners better.

Like they did it's it's such a Lamborghini.

They did everything right.

It looks good in my opinion.

I know some are not sold.

I like the chopped off dimensions.

I always love the SESTA elemento, so maybe that's why.

Yeah, which was a fantastic living concept.

Yeah, because like it's the same thing.

Like the rear tires are exposed on this.

There's such little rear overhang.

It just looks when you see it in person, wide purposeful.

Whereas most Lamborghinis look a little long and sleek.

This isn't that sort of style.

This looks like a little like like a little track monster ready to go.

So, yeah, no, great job.

I drove the Sturrata, Sturrata.

Can't remember the name now.

Last year, yeah, of the Huracan,

which isn't apples to apples because that was the off road version.

But that car was amazing and that V10 sounded amazing.

This has improved pretty much everywhere on it.

So kudos to them.

So my question to you, Mike,

because I drove the Roboto around here on the streets.

What's the the hybrid powertrain like with this?

Can you drive for significant distances on just EV power?

No, it's the same with both.

It's like single digit EV.

Yeah. And and I never I mean, I was in pure EV,

but I never drove a pure EV.

Like it was getting in and out of parking lots, moving around, getting started.

I had a couple hours in each car, so I wasn't going to waste a second

putzing around in EV mode.

So I wasn't overly trying it.

But yeah, the Lamborghini is the first to say it.

Both hybrid systems are not about saving fuel.

They're about adding more performance.

So I mean, in places like we live,

you can get a green plate on them, I guess.

So there's that.

But that was that was what I thought was so nice in the Roboto, though,

is like you can drive around in the city.

I can leave my place and get closer to the highway on EV power.

And I have to worry, I like to that.

I found the plug in hybrid actually made the V12 better

because now they can make it wrapped in 9500 RPM.

Yeah, no, I agree.

I think the hybrid and both make them better.

It's not like they were hurting for acceleration or torque,

but it's just so seamless to leave now.

And yeah, driving on both back to back.

You realize Lamborghini is still doing it right.

Like there's so many vehicles.

We just talked about one where people are like,

oh, it's lost its primary objective or it's different

or it's not living up to the name.

These are completely different from Lamborghini too,

but they're still doing what Lamborghini does.

And that's flashy cars that go stupid fast, make a lot of noise.

And you feel special driving them and everyone pays attention.

So yeah, what more can you ask for?

All right, so moving on.

Ford at SEMA built the truck we want.

And not only do they build it,

but they're actually going to kind of make it available,

which in itself is news for SEMA.

Because SEMA is usually like, here's this crazy car.

Here's the 1000 horsepower Infinity QX80.

We'll never build it.

Yeah.

You and I have gone over.

To be fair.

They should build 800 horsepower.

I agree.

So you and I have gone on about how much we love the Maverick

and how much we love the Maverick logo specifically.

Well, Ford kind of did what we wanted.

And they're giving the Maverick an upgraded power option.

And it's going to be available for consumers

and there's more than just power.

So they called this the 300T.

And it basically takes the turbocharger off

of the EcoBoost Mustang's 2.3 liter engine

and puts it on the two liter in this car.

And they reprogram and it puts power up to 300,

which is right, I think, pretty much the perfect number.

You're at 250 normally.

You don't need to go to like 350 or something ridiculous

because then you're just,

it's just too much for the platform.

I think 300 is a great number.

You're using otherwise all the same mechanical bits.

So it's not like you have to change a bunch.

They recommend you have the tow package for this upgrade,

although it's not necessary

because that gives extra cooling to the transmission.

Oh, that's fantastic.

Because they figure you'll be driving

the crap out of the car probably.

There's suspension upgrades that drops the front and rear.

I mean, it just looks great.

The only thing is I can't buy it now,

but it sounds like what they say

is it will be available for customers.

So it sounds like it's gonna be a dealer-installed upgrade,

which we'll probably talk about more later.

It just feels like a no-brainer, I guess, if you have one.

The thing I don't like though

is it doesn't seem to be available on the Lobo.

They said it could go on any of the XL, XLT,

and Larry is at the top one.

Yeah, that have the two-liter turbo,

including old models,

because these upgrades can go even to the pre-facelift.

Oh, no, these upgrades can go on any of the facelifts.

So that's including 25 this year, and then 26 next year.

I assume it can't go on the Lobo because of the transmission.

I guess it hasn't been worked out to handle the hub.

It's just missing a gear.

But it doesn't have, oh, well, it should have.

I think it has more cooling because the Lobo.

But yeah, anyway, it sounds like they say

it's not available on it, essentially.

But what I'm thinking is maybe they're gonna sell it

as a whole kit, and yes, you can't put the suspension parts

on the Lobo because it already has its own suspension.

That's very different.

So maybe there's gonna be a way you can just buy

the turbo upgrade for the Lobo, then I'm set.

Then I got my truck.

I got exactly that much.

Or realistically, I mean, not realistically,

but what I can hope is happening is that

they're just gonna make this standard on the Lobo

in like a year or two anyway.

Yeah, that would make sense.

Maybe they'll announce that for 26, like 2026.5 model year

or something, that would make sense

because that's like everyone went on.

And if it's coming from the factory,

like what's that gonna add to the cost?

Maybe $1,000 to put a different turbo on.

So, well worth it.

So Ford, good job, but you're not done yet.

Yeah, and speaking of Ford, this is kind of surprised.

I mean, it's not confirmed at all,

but it's coming from a fairly reputable source.

It sounds like Ford is mulling the idea

of canceling the F-150 Lightning,

which we've talked about incentives disappearing,

the climate in the US right now,

overall EV demand globally waning,

even though some markets are still strong.

But I wasn't expecting this to be one of the ones

that would go.

This felt like it had its following

and it was doing okay, but I guess,

I guess they're losing money on them,

so that might be part of it.

I mean, I'll believe it when I see it.

It's a report, but also,

I mean, any move to cancel an EV program now

is just gonna hurt a company in a few years

when this inevitably gets reversed.

So I don't really, I don't know.

I think the F-150 Lightning

serves a ton of people really well.

I know it's not selling what they expected.

I think the peak of expectations from Ford

was over 100,000 units and it's sold at best,

like 35,000 a year, so that's not great.

But for a lot of people's needs,

as in the people who don't tow

or haul things regularly,

so most truck owners,

a Lightning actually makes a ton of sense.

The price is still a bit of a problem,

but that's the case of top trims for the gas model too.

So yeah, I don't see this happening

because it also leaves Ford with one EV

until this new mid-sized truck comes online.

Yeah, I feel like this is gonna stick around

for a little bit longer.

It might end eventually when this generation ends,

which is expected.

And maybe it'll just wait a little bit

to make the replacement.

Well, so you mentioned exactly why I think,

I think they're thinking might be

this does suit needs for people,

but it's been a hard sell full-size truck

in this configuration.

So maybe they're like thinking

when this mid-sized, more dedicated built truck comes,

get rid of this and that's our new EV truck

and it'll be smaller and more affordable

and still suit the same needs that this probably did.

So that's the only thing I can think of

because if this thing can't survive,

then what about the Cybertruck or the Silver Auto EV

and all these other trucks that are selling far worse?

That's, yeah, that's the other thing.

So I think it's more it's gonna get replaced

and they're just gonna phase out F-150 Lightning

and then it's just gonna have whatever they call

their new truck and go from there.

Yeah, I just also wanna add whatever happens to this.

I still think this was the right name for Lightning.

Like, I know that some people are very upset

because the performance models have old,

but like, come on, Lightning was such a good name

for your pickup.

Yeah, it's electric.

Yeah, yeah.

I still can't believe they didn't make it the Silver-Eve Auto.

You know, I gotta put the EV right in Silver-Auto,

but don't give them any ideas.

The EVE Quinox.

Ooh, that's a good one.

All right, well, that wraps it up for news and reviews.

We have a short one this week

because we have a special guest coming on

and we have lots of topics we wanna cover

and Column will be on later to talk F1 news and rumors.

Then Kyle will be back with me to talk about what's next.

So we'll take a bit of a break

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All right, welcome back.

We've a special guest with us.

Someone Kyle and I have known for years.

Chad, why don't you introduce yourself?

Well, hello, my name is Chad Kirschner.

I'm happy to be talking to two more excellent Canadians.

I seem to gather Canadians as friends.

So it's nice to make an appearance here

and talk about, I'm not sure yet,

but I too, a journal of auto-isms.

And yeah, I was just telling off

before we started recording,

I just saw Kyle recently drive at a norm core Toyota.

That I thought was pretty good.

Now that we can talk about that.

But it was nice seeing you and it's good to be here.

And yeah, let's talk about some cars and stuff and things.

All right, well, the first question we always ask people

is what got you into cars?

Were you born into a car family

or did something you developed your own interest?

Kyle's excellent coverage on AutoGuide got me into cars.

Oh geez.

Little do we say Chad is 14 years old.

That's right.

I do not have a driver's license.

He likes cars more as an abstract.

Yes, right.

I had a time machine and I jumped into the future

to after Kyle was born,

because he's like 12 years old now.

I'm asked that a lot and I don't really have a great answer

because neither of my parents were super big into cars,

but for some reason I stumbled into sort of that.

So I can't remember a time where I wasn't an enthusiast,

just because people can't see me if they're listening.

I'm 42, so.

Ugh.

But one of those geriatric millennials

that I keep hearing about.

But crisis would have always been there.

I remember the 90s kind of really well.

So my parents eventually had an F-body Firebird

that I actually took the driver's test in.

So that was kind of an interesting experience.

It was just the V6 automatic.

So it was quick for the time,

for the cars that I had experienced,

but kind of a dog in the real kind of world.

GM's four speed automatic didn't help any of their,

any of their powertrains do particularly well.

So, but yeah.

And then driver's license, whatever,

I was kind of a little bit into some Japanese cars

and tuner culture.

I remember reading a lot of like Super Street

and stuff like that.

And then this was all pretty fast and furious,

which feels like what got a lot of people into it.

I kind of was into it before then.

But then shortly after I got a, you know, four,

I got early, oh four, later three actually,

you know, four S2000.

So one of the first cars that I wanna actually talk about

having would be that I had an S2000 for about five years.

Prior to that, I had some GMJ bodies,

which depending on who you ask,

are either the greatest cars in the universe

or they're not, my experience was mixed.

That's why I'm always happier to talk about the S2000

because it was awesome.

And I haven't driven anything like it since,

honestly, like I just, I drive a lot of cars a year.

You guys drive a lot of cars a year.

There's still something about an extremely high revving

rear drive sports car that also has probably

the best manual transmission in the universe

in terms of feel and action and stuff like that.

It wasn't a perfect car.

You had to rev the piss out of it to get anything.

But it definitely epitomized the V-TEC

just-cooked-in-yo statements because that first gear,

if you put your foot into it in first gear,

you waited and you waited and you waited and you waited.

And then when the revs finally hit 6,000 RPMs,

then it felt like a turbo lag

because like it would then suddenly like

almost like push you back again in your seat

and you're like, whoa, this thing is a spaceship, basically.

And then Geary meant that if you stayed in it,

you never fell off of the V-TEC range or off the cam.

But yeah, it was off the line, it felt very slow.

It's not a drag racing car, it wasn't supposed to be.

So I was fine with that.

Lots of people on the S2KI forums,

which I believe still exist.

I don't even know, maybe they're even owned by you guys.

I don't know.

But the bigger point is there's a lot of people

that actually were breaking differentials

for doing clutch jumps

because the only way to really do a good launch

would be to do a high RPM clutch jump.

And they weren't designed for that.

So people were busting them.

So I think in the five years that I had it,

I think I did two because I was kind of scared.

I didn't want to have to replace a differential.

But yeah, it was fun, it was a convertible.

So as soon as the weather churned 35 degrees Fahrenheit

and a little bit of sun, the top was down,

top always down.

I feel like that should be a requirement for convertibles.

Convertibles shouldn't just come with roofs at all.

They should just roof the league goals.

I mean, I basically do that whenever I have a press car

that's convertible.

Unless it's actively snowing, the roof is probably down.

I remember I drove through a thunderstorm once

and the philosophy is just drive faster.

Yeah, you stay drier.

Except the wind was blowing sideways.

It was like a severe thunderstorm.

So there was probably about an inch of rain

in the cup holder when I got back to home.

But you know, it was such a great experience.

And like it had a little Honda quirkiness,

a good Honda quirkiness to it.

Like there was a setting on the climate control,

like on the heater that was basically the car

with the roof down.

So if you set that, like it didn't have an air scarf

like the Mercedes does,

but it had vents right above where the shifter was.

So if you had the heat on and you turned on the top down

heating mode, you had warm heat blowing on your hands.

And if you pointed in the other, the left vent

the right way, you really could get really warm

with the top down when it was really cold.

Yeah, your head would be cold, see where it had.

But like pre-Mercedes thinking that air scarves

are a big deal, like this is just some Honda quirkiness

that really actually was really useful.

Yeah, that like even though this is a 9,000 RPM car,

it was a car that was still built to drive everything.

Yeah, yeah, it was really,

you could really drive it every day, that's for sure.

Mine was the first year that in North America,

they increased the torque a little bit.

So the rev, they dropped the revs as a result,

but they up the displacement was a 2.2 liter

instead of a 2.0.

And you ever batched it S2200?

No, people would call it that in the farms

before they just started calling it the AP2.

I don't even know it was technically an AP2.

I think they were all just AP1s,

but yeah, so it made it a little bit more drivable,

a little bit more tractable.

Mine was pre-stability control.

So I learned quickly what Snap-over is serious

cause I didn't understand a lot of car control at that age.

I do now, didn't quite so that, but it was rocked out.

We all learned something back then.

I had an F-body V6, but manual,

and you wouldn't think that is Snap-over steer,

but when you have ridiculously skinny, worn out winter tires

on it in the rain.

Oh yeah, it wants to turn around

and also learned what liftoff over steer was

in my cobalt SS going way too fast in a corner.

I was like, I'll just let go of the gas.

All of a sudden the back starts rotating.

Did you have the turbo or the super charge?

I had neither, I had the 2.4.

Oh, okay, okay.

The other SS.

Cause I had a friend that had the super charge

and man, that would, that made a wine.

That would wine like a real loud.

The turbo was probably the better performer.

I get why turbo was amazing.

I remember when GM switched to it,

they fixed the suspension too.

And it was beating EVOs and STIs on track,

which was crazy for a front drive,

less powerful car back then.

Yeah, like they figured out there was that time

that I don't know, GM figured some stuff out.

Like, they're like, no, we really want to be

in this compact car performance thing.

And for the domestics, there really was what?

There was the SRT-4 Neon.

Never call the Neon.

Yeah, I'm aware.

Yeah, but it's, I need the differentiated

between the SRT-4 caliber,

which is the worst SRT car ever built.

You're like 295 horsepower from a turbo four.

I was like, this is amazing.

Then you drove it and you're like, oh, yeah.

So the Neon version was superior.

But Ford had an STT from Ford with the Focus.

That was pre-STRS, all that sort of,

that car was interesting too.

Because it was pretty much the Eurospec with,

I thought the body design was probably

the ugliest of the group personally.

I know people that loved it,

but it kind of had those weird kind of curves,

but also angles kind of,

it kind of looked like an unfinished sprite

in a video game.

But at that time, everybody was buying Civic SiCoups.

Like that was the thing that was pre-Hatchback.

Like that was the default.

You want a small, reliable, fun car to drive,

you can buy a Civic SiCoups.

And you want, sorry.

Or you want my fury on that era of what happened?

Yeah, please.

You're right, everyone is buying the Civic SiCoups

and buying the SBT Focus was great.

And then Dodge brought out the SRT-4.

And it was like the muscle car

of the small compact tuner cars.

Like it was just so much quicker and powerful.

And it had a, like the neon always had a good chassis.

So it handled well.

And it was kind of blooming in the water.

So then the WRX was finally here.

And then Chevy tried the Supercharge.

And by the turbo, they went in typical GM fashion

and perfected the car, then canceled it.

They did that.

That class just got so out of hand that it got expensive

and like almost too powerful

and performance for the kid that wanted these cars.

Even the Civic and 06 went to the 200 horsepower Si.

And yeah, it's just like the typical,

the kind of, not they didn't price themselves

over the market, but they almost performance themselves

out of the market.

And then interest was waning.

The top year fast and furious crowd were getting older

and moving on.

Which is, which is a discussion.

Oh, yeah, cause it's odd.

Because you can still buy a Civic Type R

with a big old wing on it.

So it's like, we're still kind of in that culture.

But no, the Civic, the 200 horsepower order,

that was the one, the weird looking hatch

that had the shifter, like on a minivan, right?

Oh no, that was the 160.

That was the SLR.

That was the 160.

Okay, yeah.

The 200 was the first wedge with the dual plane.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Plus there and everything.

Yeah, you're right.

Sorry about that.

The SR was the European one, basically just imported.

It was built in England.

That was really cool.

They just rust like crazy.

But then we're not even talking about this,

like other stuff too, like the Sentra SCR,

they had the spec V.

They had the spec V.

Yeah, which was a torque steering monster, but.

Not like the three.

Nothing beats the Mazda three for torque steering.

No, no, that's right.

I just think it's funny that torque steering

was an issue with 200 horsepower

with front wheel drive cars at the turn of the century.

And now we have 320 horsepower front drive cars

where like, yeah, it's fine.

Kyle, I learned to drive a 94 Cavalier

with a three-speed auto and a push rod four cylinder

that made 120 horsepower.

Yeah.

And that can torque steered like crazy.

It was a big problem in the 90s and 2000s.

We really figured it out since, but yeah.

Eddie, like those Mazda three,

Mazda three speeds, the first gens.

Oh, they were ridiculous to drive.

Yeah, it was like the first gen,

Grand Prix GTP was the same thing.

He just punched the gas and you roast the tires

and kind of hold on to where the car wants to go.

Yeah.

You were a passenger at that point.

Man, the Mazda speed, that was such a,

in some ways that was kind of a revelation, kind of a car.

Like it felt like if you had one of those,

like you kind of knew something

that maybe everybody else didn't.

Cause I think there was a lot of gravity towards WRX

and the Evo kind of crowd that imparts that,

or not the imparts, but that, you know, crap.

My brain is old and falling out of my ears.

But like people were like, yeah, the Mazda speed three,

like that's the car to have.

The friend that I sold my S 2002,

sold it like a year later to get a Mazda speed three

cause his wife was pregnant with twins.

And I'm like, dang it, cause he was a friend.

So I gave him the friend price.

And that car today would be like a 60,000 dollar car,

a 70,000 dollar car.

It's so, oh, it makes me so sad.

I, um, I overnighted parts from Japan.

I had a, um, I had a-

But you weren't running a spoon engine.

No.

I was gonna say, I hope you say spoon or Mugen next.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna go even harder core

Japan tuner.

I'm gonna say it was a powerhouse amuse exhaust.

Both titanium, you can get up with your pinky finger.

And that, at that time too,

and I wanted to do it, I just didn't have the money.

At that time too, the Honda tuning company CompTech

was selling super chargers that didn't,

that didn't void your warranty.

If you use the stock pulley that they came with.

So a friend of mine had a 330 horsepower S 2000.

That thing was bonkers.

Like abs, like you just,

he just drove everywhere sideways basically.

Like it was ridiculous.

He also had, he worked at a dealership.

The dealership also owned a first gen NSX

with a CompTech supercharger.

And that might be the most perfect car ever built.

So I got two quick things.

You just reminded me of that era too.

The monster three speed three was right in it.

But remember two back then, like every, um, manufacturer

was like, here's our way overpowered compact car.

Oh, but for a bit more money,

bring it to the dealer and we'll give you more.

Remember Williams Cobalt had two stages.

You get to 300 horsepower in the SS and the neon SRT,

sorry, just the SRT four.

It had stage kits you could buy.

And I remember like the Cobalt was like $500

and you got 40 more horsepower.

Yeah.

It was unbelievable.

If you bought the car,

why wouldn't you just do that right from the start?

And it didn't void your warranty

because Jim did it for you.

Yeah.

Well, Jim technically still does that now.

Oh, and like with the full size SUVs,

I think you can get the,

there's some, I don't even remember

what the kits called anymore,

but it's like a small upgrade price, right?

And then you just unlock a few extra horsepower

in your VA, not that you need it.

And it's not exactly the same target audience.

What I think is tricky,

I mean, what I think is kind of tricky now

to kind of your point, Kyle, is like,

you can go to like a dealer,

like I've got a dealer friend that owns a massive chain

of dealers in Columbus and he's a Roush dealer.

So like you can order a Mustang and Roush,

if I threw him the whole thing happens through there,

but Roush handles the warranty though.

Like, the same with some of these other performance tuners,

if you get like a Hennessey or a Callaway,

I don't even know if Callaway does Corvettes anymore,

but like you get one of those tuners,

like they were the ones warranty it.

Like back when we're talking like with like Comtac,

like if your dealer was an authorized Comtac dealer,

like the dealer fixed it.

I don't know who they built.

I don't know who they built the warranty work to

if it was Honda or if it was Comtac,

but Honda said it was cool.

Like, and that's so cool at the time, you know, GM's like,

oh no, it's cool.

Like here, give us some extra,

give us some extra money and we're gonna,

because they wanted in on that sweet, sweet mod money

because everybody wanted everybody wanted

to modify their cars.

And now, like we said,

it was the hot important nights, fast and furious,

no pee all that.

Sorry, just one more thing with the cobalt

because I love asking this question.

So how much people are car nerds?

That two liter turbo, you know,

showed up in the Solstice and the Opel GT and the Sky.

Remember those?

Yeah, the Sky was mine.

What was the other car it showed up in?

The most obscure car besides the GM's front and rear drive

cars.

Was it in the same car?

No, it wasn't the sawed engine.

I always thought it was growing up.

No, it's in a manufacturer who is technically

maybe selling cars again.

Maybe not, keep coming and going.

Oh, with daily?

No, they make an SUV and a car and they're both electric,

more so the SUV right now.

It was the engine that was the hybrid generator,

I guess, in the Fisker Karma.

Oh, that's, yes, that's right.

Yeah, it was.

What a weird place for the engine to show up.

We're ecotactic, you know what I'm asking?

Since we're talking about these cars back then,

we need to shout out the more sophisticated mid-sized

siblings to a lot of these cars.

Like, remember the SVT Contour with that

200 horsepower V6 and the Mazda Speed 6

with the all-wheel drive, like 260 something?

It was an amazing car, but it was so temperamental.

Like those things broke like crazy.

But all-wheel drive, that amazing looking body,

a big, powerful, two-liter manual, like it was everything.

And I mean, shout out to the show, you know,

the first gen, the first gen.

Maybe not the last gen.

No, definitely not the last one.

Sorry, but the 90s gen, the space ship.

Yeah, the, yeah.

But I mean, it was there, you know,

the first one was obviously the value.

Yeah, first one was awesome, yeah.

It's just funny, because Conan O'Brien

still talks about the show that he had.

Because he was like a famous car owner.

It's like stuck at some lots at ABC, I guess,

like they found it a couple of weeks ago.

Shout out to Conan O'Brien, the different podcast.

I like it.

But yeah, you know, the 90s, 2000s,

like it was just Kyle at that Toyota event that we were at.

I was talking to one of their dinner

and one of their marketing guys just about how

that time for, especially the Japanese automakers.

I mean, the Americans definitely got involved.

But like the Japanese automakers looked at that segment,

that compact, that smaller segment,

and that's where they decided,

we are gonna show the world how clever we are,

how smart we are, how good at engineering we are.

So we got things like, you know, the Celica and, you know,

the Civic and the MR, the MRS.

I mean, the MR2 prior, but you know, the MRS,

the cars that like, they spent a lot of engineering talent

on crap boxes, so that people could go take those crap boxes

and modify the crap out of them.

Yeah, but I think too, it was also like, it was a good time.

It was a time to appeal to younger buyers

who maybe didn't have the cash to buy something

like an American performance vehicle.

Yeah.

And you built loyalty right off the bat, right?

Like, I can't count the number of friends

who had some Honda or Toyota that they had poorly modified

in high school or college,

who now still drive that same brand.

Like, you get that and you've locked them in.

Yeah, the marketing works, who would have thought?

But also at that time, especially,

maybe you couldn't get the, I mean,

we all wanted a Type R, we couldn't buy them here,

but like, you know, maybe you couldn't get

an Integra Type R, but if you went and bought a Tegi,

like you still had fun.

There's like the halo of each of those affordable trim levels,

like something, oh, maybe you could aspire to or whatever,

but you weren't shafted if you got the cheaper model,

maybe didn't get as much power or whatever,

but like handling would still be there

or some other thing would still be,

you still got the essence of what the halo trim

of that car is, whatever, you know?

Yeah, couldn't get a Cavaliers Z24,

so you got the LS on a way that's not a good example.

I had a friend that had a first gen Z24 convertible,

and he basically rattled hand the paint on that,

like he hand sanded the car and he did his own,

he did his own Bondo body kit, like designed his own,

it was a good 100 foot car, you look at it 100 feet away,

you're like, hey, that doesn't look too bad,

get a little closer, and you're like, oh,

but he loved it, he loved the car as much as,

he did what he could, and younger me,

was like, oh, I couldn't do that,

older me appreciates the effort, you know?

I'm glad you brought up the Celica chat,

because that's sort of the forgotten one there,

and to me it's always been like the what could have been,

like it looked amazing, like it was so out there style-wise,

and Toto gave it the high revving engine,

but when it came out, like everything else was going turbo,

or way more power, and it was like 180 or something,

it just, you know, could never keep up,

and remember they had the Matrix version,

the XRS Matrix, with that same engine, six feet,

I remember, and it was like cool,

but I remember I drag raced one,

an actual drag strip with my Allero, and I beat it,

and I was like, they're that slow,

but it was just one of those, like it's 180,

when you're in that tiny little power band at the top,

but if you're not, so the Matrix 2000,

the Matrix, yeah, the Matrix though,

like if you bought the Pontiac version,

you got the deal, because you got all the Toyota hardware,

and the reliability, but didn't pay the Toyota price.

It's true, yeah, it's true, yeah, it's true.

So that's kind of,

Toto liked it so much, they sold it in Japan themselves.

Yeah, well, and that Celica engine you were talking about,

I mean, that ended up in a Lotus, did it not?

Yes, it did.

I've never placed the Rover.

So, yeah.

Toyota engines ended up just being the heart of Lotus

for decades.

Yeah, the Camry V6 with the supercharger.

Yeah, yeah, that's the thing is when people are like,

oh, Camry, it's like, well, if it's good enough for Lotus,

it's probably good enough.

Remember when you could buy it's a coma and check a box

to have a TRD supercharger installed by the dealer?

This is the thing, right?

It's like you could just, multiple brands had super chargers

that you could just add on.

You were just like, yeah, sure, like Nissan.

Yeah, and right now, gosh, this is editorializing

maybe more than necessary, but like right now,

in some ways we're going through an affordability crisis

and things like that, I think it's gonna get worse,

but like, you talk about automakers and margin

and like the American automakers like,

oh, we gotta build these big trucks,

we gotta build these high margin vehicles.

We only make like 300 bucks when we sell a Centra.

Well, then offer an aftermarket catalog,

don't just offer some accessories,

like offer a supercharger, charge five grand for it,

warranty, whatever, right?

Or whatever the price needs to be in,

man, that S2000 supercharger was 3,600 bucks.

Why didn't I get it?

But like, oh, we want to increase margin,

like let's start doing some of that stuff then on these.

Yes, not everybody wants that kind of thing,

but let's make, I don't want to make cars cool again,

like that's a bit unfair,

there are some pretty cool affordable cars these days,

but maybe.

But how do you make cars cool to a different generation, right?

Like what we valued in the 90s is very different

than what buyers want nowadays.

Never mind the fact that, you know,

under 30s make up a much smaller percentage

of the new car, but-

Sure, well, there's obviously,

there's still an affordability thing,

but what I mean, to me,

tuning culture is not significantly different

than the computer tech modding culture

that you have today,

or that you had a couple of years ago, especially.

Yes, you are modding a different thing,

but the enthusiasm and the drive,

and especially like an overclocking and things like that,

that's all, I mean, people will visual a mod too,

like it's the same mindset,

it's just maybe a different canvas.

So I don't necessarily think you're too far away

from drawing a connection,

and what's really interesting right now

is we are, yes, a bunch of old fogies

talking about the glory days,

but retro computing is back in a big way,

and why couldn't,

it feels like maybe there is a time to grab an audience

like that, that maybe is a little bit retro,

that definitely is in the modifying and stuff with hardware,

and pull them into our,

oh, here's another toy that you can potentially play with.

Yeah, and to build off that,

I feel like you hear these rumblings

that the younger generation is also kind of moving away

from the tech overload of modern cars

and just daily life in general,

and it's like, get a 90s era car,

a 90s camera is still only halfway through its life cycle.

So I mean, if we have an affordability crisis,

not that I wanna say the fix to that is just by used cars,

I think OEMs really need to-

No, they dress good, but there is something to be said

for just getting an old, very reliable used car

and kind of takeering with it.

Well, please go ahead.

So I was gonna say part of the problem,

I think with the modding today is back in those days,

you just had a chunk of aluminum or iron under the hood

that you could get so much more power out of nowadays

with emissions and fuel economy standards,

the OEMs have already squeezed every possible pony

out of a lot of these cars,

all these tiny turbocharged engines,

it's not like you can just go somewhere

and be like, give me more power,

but the EDs, when those become more used

and the market opens up,

just imagine when people start going somewhere

and like, oh, just swap in a different motor in the back

and it really won't be that hard.

It's like, oh, okay, I'll get another 700 horsepower

by just putting in a slightly larger motor.

There's so much potential there,

we just haven't got to that point yet,

but I think there's gonna be a crazy EV hot rod culture

one day, it's just, I don't know what day that is.

I think it's a little bit to your point,

I'm gonna poo poo some of your point,

just of the, not of the EV side,

but of like, oh, it was easier to mod cars.

I mean, when I was 18 or 19,

which is really sort of like,

oh, this is the peak of that Tudor culture timeframe.

A lot of people might mod their cars,

they just made them worse.

Yeah, that's true.

You know, they rode worse, they had performance problems,

they were just like,

it wasn't necessarily making them better.

No, it was just easier to do to make them worse.

But yeah, I think even today,

like there's people who get stock M3s

and they destroy people who modify their M3s on a track

because it's put together the way it was supposed to.

I was telling the Polestar people,

I love that they sell a car that has a suspension

that I can intentionally screw up.

Oh yeah.

You know, I can go in there and I can make an adjustment

and I can make this car objectively worse.

Yeah.

You know, they're like,

oh, you can fine tune it

for whatever road driving conditions, whatever.

I'm like, you're telling me I can just go make it worse,

is what you're saying.

But yeah, I do, Mike,

I completely agree with you on the EV thing.

I think there's an unlockable Tudor culture there.

People are already doing the visual stuff already.

It's the performance stuff

that may be a little bit more challenging.

But I mean, where there's a will, there's a way.

And these kids that are growing up now

have grown up around tech

and they're gonna understand a software-defined vehicle

a lot better than somebody our age or older for sure.

And once you unlock that or find ways around it,

it's a whole new ballgame.

What do you think of Slate?

I'm sure you've already talked about it,

but in some ways that's the promise of Slate, right?

It is Tudor culture, mini truck.

When I see a Slate, I see mini truck in magazine.

I see the return of this.

And now we've seen a Maverick

that suddenly has an upgraded street truck

kind of engine in it there at SEMA

that they say they're gonna do.

Like our street truck's back.

Is modding culture coming back?

Is Kyle, what's happening?

You wanna talk, I see it in your face.

I saw Mike put out the article on the Maverick

because I was on vacation for most of this week.

And yeah, we've said it so often.

Since I first drove the Lobo

and then Mike drove it over the summer,

it's like all that's missing is that thing needs the 2-3.

That's it, that's all it needs, it's fun.

It's plenty fun as is,

but I just wish it differentiated itself a little more

from the rest of the Maverick lineup.

So we got half of it, right?

We said, well, we took the turbo off the 2-3

and gave it similar power on the 2-liter.

And I was like, that's even better

because now anyone can do it.

And to Chad's point, you just go to the dealer

and say, hey, I want my,

I mean, apparently they're gonna do like springs

and all different levels.

And yeah, maybe it'll come back

because that's now a truck I need to keep my eye on.

But is this an indicator?

Like maybe Slate was a little iffy

for a lot of different reasons perhaps,

but Ford now saying that sport street truck,

cause they were the ones that killed the street truck, right?

They came along and they said, street trucks are dumb.

We want to make more money.

Haven't offered a truck.

Boom, here's the Raptor.

And that led to, in my opinion, that's the truck

that said street trucks are no longer cool

and why everybody now does offer it stuff

because Raptor, that's a good point.

So now is Ford saying, hey, maybe it's not off-roading anymore.

It could be because they're trying to realize

that the big ol R recession is coming

and $100,000 Raptor isn't gonna stop.

Judging by the response to the Raptor.

Yeah, maybe, but I think, so I've never actually,

I'll be honest with you,

I never thought of Slate in that framing.

Okay.

I mostly just think of it from the affordability side.

And then of course with the things

that have happened in the last year,

the affordability may not be what it once was

or the price point won't really be feasible anymore.

But I do, I think Slate is an interesting idea.

And I know a lot of people like us

in the auto journalism space are, you know,

overjoyed with this idea of a back-to-basics

very affordable truck.

But as ever, I'd be curious to see

how it translates to buyers.

Because while we love to talk about basic vehicles,

I can't help but notice the market pretty much ignores them.

So two thoughts, two trends of thought on that.

One, this, the Slate truck is the most internet truck

that's ever interneted.

It is designed and basically built by internet commenters.

So either, yeah.

So either internet commenters are right or they're not.

And I'm glad-

Well, that's not good enough, I guess.

Well, no, internet commenters for the record

are traditionally very wrong.

I'm sorry guys, don't at me.

But like, yeah, I'm on blue sky, nobody comes over there.

But the, yes, I'm glad I'm not spending my money

to see if internet commenters are right.

That being said, pricing of what you see in a dealership

is also, to put it the most polite way,

a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Lower spec vehicles make less money.

So dealers make less money in the sale,

automakers make less money in the back end.

So what's the incentive for the automaker

to put those base spec vehicles to send them in dealerships?

And then they turn around and say,

well, nobody bought the Ford F-150 XL,

so we're just going to kill it.

Well, nobody bought the XL

because you didn't have any in stock dealerships,

which Americans like to buy off the lots.

And I don't know if Canadians are like that.

Europeans don't care.

But I mean, Americans typically buy what's on the lot.

So if you don't have that there

and you're not stockpiling there,

then you turn around and say,

well, nobody bought them, this must have been terrible.

Well, nobody bought the mock,

or nobody bought the Lightning.

Well, did you stock it?

Well, so, yes, I don't think people,

I don't think people want a car that they know is cheap.

Like I don't want them to feel,

I don't think they want to feel like they're poor.

And the slate may be too basic

to where it feels like you're poor

and then you're just not being cheap.

I think that's my risk with that.

But when you talk about just affordability

and things like that,

yes, no, people don't want to feel like they're being cheap,

but you walk into a dealership

and you see a base spec rogue

and you see a fully loaded rogue.

Your dealer isn't gonna tell you like this

or you go in and you look at a Versa

and suddenly you're driving out with a Sentra

because the dealer salesperson's like,

well, you don't want to sell this thing that

or oh, I can get you a better deal on this or whatever.

It's very, it isn't a direct connection

between people don't want,

when they actually vote with their money,

they don't actually want cheap cars.

I'm not entirely convinced that's 100% the case.

I don't think that there's a clean test,

a scientifically verifiable way to tell

because there's too many variables in that.

No, that's fair.

That trigger that.

Now, the slate itself, brand new car company,

hard to trust somebody that's brand new

and these trucks are gonna be cheap.

Like price-wise, I don't know,

but they're going to be cheap inside.

That could be like,

I think there is a tuner culture

that will grow behind that.

I'd have to make the company profitable.

I don't know, probably not.

I think that if GM came along and bought Slate

and offered that truck in the bigger scheme

of general matters,

I think it could do well and would do well

as an entire car company based around one product.

And where do they go from there?

How do they expand beyond that?

Even if that truck's hugely successful,

you're not gonna build a slate sports car.

Maybe you don't need to.

It's a scale problem of worse, I think.

There's a brewery.

I mean, now they don't do this,

so it doesn't count anymore.

But there's a brewery in Toronto

that used to just do one type of beer.

And their whole thing was like,

we do one beer really well.

And so maybe Slate could just be like,

look, this is all we make.

This is the one thing that we do

and we do it fantastically.

But the cost of entry to make a beer

is way less than building a car.

A little bit, a little bit.

You know, in some ways, I think you mentioned,

you know, it's kind of like the scout problem,

which our friend, Stephanie reminded us

on the Honda trip, which is, you know,

you have an SUV and a truck.

What do you build from there?

Either bigger SUVs, bigger trucks,

smaller SUVs, smaller trucks.

You're fundamentally just running whatever you have

through a copy machine and that's it.

Like you can't make a Slate sedan.

You know, you can't make a Slate,

or a Scout sedan or a Scout sports car,

because that goes against the idea of Scout.

Yeah.

You know, like Jeep can't make a car.

I mean...

Subaru's figured out a way

to kind of cross those barriers a little bit, I think.

And they do a good job at it,

though they don't really sell sedans anymore.

But I don't see how,

I don't see how a one car car company can succeed,

especially if you're limiting yourself with the people.

That being said, I also think that if,

if a mini truck and magazine still exists,

maybe it does, like that would be a cover car.

Like that would be something

that would get people excited about it.

Oh, there could be a whole like wing

at SEMA dedicated to Slate trucks.

Yeah.

I don't know.

It's a...

Maybe two, maybe two and a half.

With that, we should probably wrap things up

because we've been...

Yeah, we've been...

We've wandered.

We've taken up a lot of Chad's time here.

You guys wander?

Never.

I have an important question to ask, though,

for listeners, viewers.

I have one important question.

Chad, where can people see, read, hear you?

Oh, wow.

That's actually that important of a question.

I thought you were going to be like,

is a hot dog a sandwich?

Oh, I ask everybody that when I need to.

Which I would say no, it is not.

It's a separate thing.

And I write on the internet

and sometimes I post crap on socials,

but I freelance so you can find some of my work

most recently in ours, Tech Vika.

I've got some Jalopic stuff coming soon.

I run a newsletter called The Kershner Report.

I don't act like Stephen Colbert, though,

where I talk about the industry and yeah, I'm online.

So I've been covering EVs a lot,

but those apparently aren't popular in the US anymore.

Thanks to our current state of things.

So really, really, really the best place to get started

if you want to define me

is either on Blue Sky

or I've got a little website at ChadKershner.com

for the listeners that's C-H-A-D-K-I-R-C-H-N-E-R.com

and that's kind of a link to everything.

Follow me and say you mentioned it on here

and I'll give you a virtual hug.

There you go.

All right, sounds good.

Yes.

Well, thanks for coming on.

We will definitely have you on again

and we'll be off onto a different topic next time.

This is real fun.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks, Jen.

All right.

All right, are we ready?

Yeah, sure.

Hold on.

Well, maybe.

I feel like my like...

I know you often see like the circle lens in my glasses,

but it's like sometimes it's more obvious than others.

Ah, oh yeah, I kind of see it.

I think it's always there.

If I look down, you don't see it.

If I look up, it's like, but whatever.

I'll look down a little bit.

You streamer with your light.

I, my wife got me a Christmas gift.

So it's like, here you go.

So yeah, you should talk.

You got all this great lighting

and really I think it's using your phone camera.

It gives you such a much better picture.

Like you, you're so better quality.

All right, ready?

Yep.

Okay, that was a great interview

and now we move on to talking about

Formula One News in Rumors with Colm.

Welcome back.

What do you have for us this week?

There are always lots of things.

I feel like the rumor mill is really churning heavy right now

on who could go where in the near or not so near future.

So I think probably the top thing on the list,

I think was the Hamilton replacements.

Oh, it's not Hamilton replacements.

Oh, okay.

We'll hold that briefly.

So, gotta backwards.

That's okay.

It's interesting.

I actually debated myself

which one we should key out first.

So there's many changes being discussed.

So not only is 2026 gonna be the, you know,

brand new cars, new teams, 11th team,

change everything up like crazy,

but they might actually change a bunch of rules.

So apparently there is a proposal

that is in front of Formula One

that I guess Liberty Media is supporting

and apparently some of the teams support it too

about trying to make the races more interesting in the future

and in particular trying to make it

so that people aren't, you know,

they're putting around to try and conserve tires.

So there are two options being discussed.

One is the potential of having two mandatory pit stops

every race.

The other is that all three tire compounds

would have to be used.

So the all three tire compounds thing

seems a little strange to me.

I mean, I guess just cause it's less normal

than what we're currently in like,

you know, pit stops are pretty normal.

So, but I think the whole idea is, you know,

it's funny, I, the last time I was on

and we chatted about how that the Mexico race

was like good the whole way through.

And I said, even normally in a good race,

there's a period in the middle where it's kind of like,

yeah, you could go to the bathroom

cause there's not a lot happening.

And I think they're trying to avoid that.

They're trying to make it more like a sprint where it's,

you know, guys got to go all out all the time.

So none of these are decided on.

I don't know when the exact meeting is,

but it's relatively soon.

But that'd be a lot to take on in a year, right?

We've got new cars, new team, all this, you know,

if they change a whole bunch of the regulations as well.

I don't know if they'll jump on it right away,

but it's interesting to say the least.

Yeah, I like the idea as well of doing something.

So we've talked about the races are too long

and there's a lull.

It's not too too long, it's the lull.

It's the, they pit early and then you just have to wait

till the end to see who's tires fall off or don't

or they're conserving for the first two thirds

and you're just parading until the end of the pit stop.

So I guess you can't make it where, you know,

like the tires were so they have to change them.

So they'll just try to conserve them in different ways.

But mandatory two stops is, is good.

Like more stops the better the three compounds.

I'm actually interesting.

Cause some series have done that in the past

and being a video game racer,

that's always something we try to put on just

cause it makes the strategy interesting.

So yeah, I'm good with either.

It's just more stops means more chaos

because then you're gapping people and timing things out

and more chances for things to go wrong,

which is also fun or bad if it's your team

where things go wrong, right?

But I always feel like, sorry, go ahead.

I was gonna say two stops at Monaco

might make it somewhat interesting.

They have to, they have to do that.

It's a, I think they discussed that last year

and they really should cause it needs something

to make it more interesting.

But I think it's just a case of there's,

I always think there's this,

the law of unintended consequences, right?

Like you never know how they'll make a rule for something

and then it gets exploited a different way, right?

And it's like, well, actually, you know what?

We mandated three tire choices

and somebody figures out some weird situation where they,

oh, okay, well, I'm gonna run all the hards

until the last two laps and then swap

and then swap again or something weird like that.

I have no idea.

Or, you know, the first two laps,

let's just pit, pit and then go on some other tire.

Like someone's gonna find a funny way to exploit it

no matter what they do.

So we'll see.

But I liked it.

They're thinking about it.

So yeah, like the, you could easily solve all this

and force the pit stops and whatnot.

If you do it with fuel,

but since fuel has been banned for refueling

for a long time ago now and rightfully so for safety,

I get it, but like that's the easy one

cause you can only save so much fuel in the lighter.

Like if you drive too slow,

then they're gonna fast you

whereas tires is a little different.

So yeah, I hope they think of something.

I don't like, they're not gonna go to stages like NASCAR.

Like that's a little, that's too much,

but the two pit stops is interesting.

The stages throw together two stops and three compounds.

And then people are all over the map

trying to figure out what's the best strategy.

That is true.

The more different items you can introduce,

the more interesting it was.

Like if you think way back to the sort of Michael Schumacher

days when there was two different tire companies, right?

Cause then it was like, look,

it wasn't just how the missions,

it's like how the missions go here,

how the bridge stones, bridge stones.

Yeah, I think so.

We'll do, oh, yeah, it was Michelin and Bristone.

I think so, or it was a Crowley and Bristone.

Either way, the way it would work out, right?

And there would be tracks where,

would favor one tire versus another,

or it would change your sort of your pit stop strategy

throughout the race.

So I think the more different things

you can introduce, the better.

Or we just do some weird balance of power thing

like they do in the WC or something like that.

I was like, I know, I agree, it's too contrived.

I actually liked the, what was it, world challenge

where they would like, you know, you,

if you became first, you get 50 pounds added.

If you came second, you get like 25 and then you get a few.

And then, you know, so the dominant team would go out,

they clean up the first race, they'd win the second race.

And then the third race, they'd be like fifth.

And then they take some weight off and they come back and so,

but again, you can totally exploit those rules.

I don't like that either.

It's too contrived for formula one,

but I'm happy that they're looking at

as many options as possible.

Yeah, all right.

So now onto your Lewis Hamilton.

Yes.

So, you know, I think Lewis himself would admit

he's not terribly thrilled, right?

And he only was there for two years, right?

So he'd be here this year and next year at Ferrari.

And the rumors are spinning already of who will replace him.

I have seen the two top discussions rumors out there.

One is George Russell.

And the other one is Ollie Bierman.

And it's funny, actually, my daughter came to me yesterday

and she's like, have you heard this nonsense rumor

that Oliver Bierman is gonna replace Hamilton at Ferrari?

And I was like, hold on.

I'm like, that's not as far as fast as you think.

Like first of all, I think if Hamilton doesn't do well

next year, like both the team's not gonna want them anymore.

They're not gonna wanna pay this outrageous salary.

And he's not gonna wanna be there.

He's not gonna wanna be there doing mediocre.

Like he's not actually doing that either, right?

So it won't be like he's begging for a job

and they don't want him.

That won't be, it'll be a mutual like, see you later.

Tried this, didn't work out.

And they'll need somebody and Oliver, obviously,

Bierman is a Ferrari in training.

So it's totally possible and it could be a future,

bring somebody up through the ranks.

Like Ferrari is often a team that likes to load it up

with two trusted drivers, but it's not a bad idea

to have their Leclerc as their,

it's funny to think of him as the more senior guy

on the team, but he's been there quite a long time.

So that could work out.

And Bierman could be the junior one coming in

for the future.

Yeah, I think Bierman would be the obvious one.

Like I said, this is the path they wanted to put him on.

And Charles can be sort of the,

it's weird to think of it that way,

but the senior driver of the team

and Oliver make his way up and take over one day.

He is gonna be a married man now.

Georgia, I mean, Charles Leclerc, Chuck Leclerc.

So, you know, he's gonna be an old man with his dog baby.

So it'll be very responsible.

We'll see.

Yeah, we'll see.

It almost feels to the silly season,

hasn't been that crazy this year

because of all the other craziness next year,

people kind of locked in already.

So people are just trying to think of stories,

but I think after 26, there'll be some changes for sure.

Oh yeah.

Well, we still have, you know,

75% of the red bullish seats undecided.

So there'll still be lots of discussions

around who gets in there.

Doesn't matter.

I mean, they're all gonna be replaced a couple of races

in anyway.

Exactly.

Yeah, they each get a half year and then they get canned.

And Helmut Marco is gonna drive for the team instead.

All right.

Got anything else before we go?

Just very quickly that I just,

before we were hopping on here,

I saw Audi posted on their channels

that the F1, their F1 project has a big update

coming on November 12th.

So that's what next.

Just a couple of days away.

Yeah, exactly.

And they had a little video they released with some shots,

but they're super blurry and like overexposed

and you can't tell anything.

So I don't know if it's gonna be a,

is it, it's not gonna be a car debut.

It's too early for that, right?

So it's livery.

Are they gonna show like a car concept?

I mean, who cares a car concept?

Like I could build one.

Like I don't know, it just doesn't mean anything.

So I just suspect it's a bit of a,

they have marketing height to keep the interest alive

until they get closer to the big deal.

So maybe they'll show their uniforms

so they don't give away the car.

I don't know.

There you go.

That's not a bad idea.

Like what do you do with delivery?

Well, I guess I can put delivery

on the current Kickstarter car

and then reveal their actual car.

If and when that big event happens again

or if they're all doing it on their own,

I'm still not sure.

So.

Yeah.

Let me look into that for you.

I should find out if that's happening or not.

But I feel like, yeah, we'll see.

Well, we'll know next week.

I suspect it might not even be news really.

All right.

Well, thanks for joining us.

And yeah, next week we will cover if that was any good.

And I'm sure there'll be tons of new rumors

and more racing to talk about.

So yeah, it's out follows this weekend.

So, you know, we'll talk about that.

That's always interesting.

So I'm sure we'll have somebody to talk

some follow up from that.

Yep.

All right.

We'll talk to you later.

Awesome.

Take care, Mike.

Okay.

So before we wrap up the AutoGuide show

brought to you by eBay Motors,

we'll just take a quick look

at what we've been doing this week.

I'll start because Kyle,

look at what you're doing in a second.

I have been home all week

and I've been driving the Fiat 500e.

You may say, but Mike, you already drove that.

Well, not this.

This is the Giorgio Armani edition.

And I'll save my thoughts for the review.

The basic whole premise of it is,

is the special edition worth the increased costs?

And I'll just leave that there for now.

Kyle, what have you been doing this week?

This week I was off for most of the week.

I was at the Japan Mobility show last week,

which is why I wasn't on the show.

And I'm still a little, a little bitter

that I couldn't talk about the show with you and Greg.

But with the 13 hour slash 14 hour time difference

after daylight savings time, it just wasn't viable.

So I spent the week just enjoying Tokyo and Kyoto

because I had never been.

And wandering the streets,

trying a bunch of food,

enjoying all the cars that we don't get here.

And a lot of cars that we do,

no one warned me that Tokyo has so many

unexpected cars on the road.

Like a H2 and a PT Cruiser and old Beatles

and all the newest Ferraris, like the 12-cylinder.

It's just, it was nice.

So I came home late Thursday night.

I think, I don't know what day of the week it is anymore.

And yeah, I just came to record with you

and I have a Volvo EX40 sitting downstairs

that I'm going to enjoy for the weekend,

which technically we've driven before.

It's just now it's named different

because Volvo changes its names over here.

So it's the electric version of the EXC40.

All right.

And then next week, you and I are both in some SUVs,

very practical mainstream ones.

Yes.

I will be driving the GMC Terrain Denali.

We haven't actually driven the Terrain or the Equinox

since the updates.

So I'm looking forward to that.

I actually drove the last gen Terrain Denali.

So it'll have a very good direct comparison

to what it's like.

And what will you be in?

I will be in the Hyundai Palisade XRT Pro,

which I drove for the first time in the summer.

And then I recently drove the hybrid calligraphy version.

So now I'll be getting back into a gas one.

And I think it was originally actually booked for you, Mike.

And so at some point during the week,

I'm going to probably meet up with you

so that you can try it too,

because I've spent plenty of time in the new Palisade

and I really think you should too.

Yeah, no, I want to try it.

There's one in my neighborhood actually.

Someone already bought one and I keep seeing it.

It's, you can't mistake it for anything else.

That's for sure.

But this is true.

All right, well, that wraps things up

on the AutoGuide show.

We will be back next week with more news reviews

and it'll be a very week where Kyle and I

are both around again.

So until then, we'll see you next week.

So long, everybody.

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