How Hyundai Became a Design Powerhouse | Bradley Arnold, Head of Design

Hi there! Welcome to another episode of the Unofficial Podcast of Art Center. No, this is

the inevitable. This is the Motor Trend Podcast, Vodcast, where we talk about the future of the

automobile, the future of transportation, where are we going, how are we going to get there,

and are we going to be driving off-road Hyundai's?

Welcome to the inevitable, a podcast by Motor Trend.

Yes, you heard me, off-road Hyundai's, but before we get to our guests,

Mr. Lowe here has got a message just for you. The inevitable podcast is brought to you by

no sponsor currently, although a couple have reached out, so maybe this will change.

Yeah, so if you have interest in sponsoring one of our episodes or the whole series,

please shoot me a note at Edward.Loweathurst.com or slide into our DMs, and we will route

the inquiry to the right person. The right person we have on today's podcast is a very nice

gentleman by the name of Bradley Arnold. He is the head of design for Hyundai Design North America.

He has a long career in automotive, worked for a few different car companies. He's younger

than Johnny and I by about 10 years. It's super annoying because he's very smart, very clever.

But we look good, we look about the same age as him.

Keep talking yourself that. And yeah, we're going to talk a lot about Hyundai's

ascent, what they've been doing, what he's been doing to help from the design perspective,

and then where they're going off-road. Because that is a big, it's not even a niche,

it's actually a major segment for every manufacturer is selling off-roady the aesthetic

and the capability, but honestly, mostly the aesthetic. Gotta have the capability though.

Yeah, gotta have it to sell it. It's a bit debatable with some brands. But if you look at

everything from Toyota, TRD, Nissan's trying to make Nismo into their off-road brand,

Honda has done a bunch of, what do they call it, is it X-Trail or?

Yeah, X-Trail. But more importantly, look at Jeep and the Ford Bronco and all the Ford Raptor

everything, GM with their ZR2 stuff or AT4, these are capable vehicles. And so Hyundai

doesn't really have that yet. But I think our guest is going to explain how, how they might get there.

So without further ado, let's bring him on. Yeah, welcome, Bradley Arnold.

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

Head of Design, Hyundai North America. Yes, Hyundai Design North America.

Okay, cool. We got lots to talk about. We're going to get to, I think XRT to finish,

but I want to go through a little bit of your background. Art Center?

Yep. Another Art Center.

Another Art Center. I know. Yes, I'm off of you.

The force is strong. The unofficial podcast of Art Center is undefeated.

You know what though? I mean, I think now, one of the things we find often when we interview

car designers is like, I never knew I could be a car designer. I didn't know there was a university

that taught you to do that. Now the kids don't have an excuse because we've been doing this for

you know, several seasons and four years. Mine is perhaps slightly more embarrassing.

My dad's house was in La Crescenta, so 10 minutes from Art Center. And he would drag me on road

bike rides throughout junior high and high school and we would climb Lido, Lida, Lida,

and climb up and I would look over at that sign and be like, college, what college is back here?

We just, you know, and then keep, but I'd be like dead tired and then I'd rattle up over the hill

and then later attended. You didn't know anything about it?

Nothing. I was like, why is there a college back here?

Do you go to, you went to school in La Crescenta?

I went to school in Sun Valley.

Sun Valley. Yeah. Village Christian. So like the base of that, La Tuna Canyon, bottom.

Oh yes. That's for those of you not from Southern California, that's miles away.

Yes, right. La Crescenta is right there.

Yeah. I always tell people, you watch Leno's garage where he drives?

Yes. That's where I grew up. Right.

Yes. Sun Valley, Shadow Hills.

I mean, as embarrassing, back in, gosh, 25 years ago, I had a gym that was literally

next to the Peterson Museum and I'd go to the gym every day for a year and never thought to,

I didn't know what I was like, Peterson. I don't know what that is.

Yeah, yeah. That's hilarious.

So were you driving cars when you were growing up in Sun Valley?

I don't think so. I grew up, my dad worked for Honda for 40 years in the motorcycle department.

He was a mechanic and then a race team manager and then was in R&D. So I was really into bikes.

So we raced BMX growing up. I rode motocross and so it was motorcycles really that was my

passion as a kid.

But you like to draw motorcycles?

I don't even think that. I mean, I wasn't until I was graduating high school and

we were talking about what I might want to do. I think I had gotten into like Long Beach State.

I'm like, I don't know. I'll go there and figure it out.

And then my dad at that point was in R&D and he would work with designers.

And so he invited Damian Bassett over which is like one of their top motorcycle designers

and he showed me his portfolio and that was like two months before I graduated high school.

So I canceled Long Beach State and got an art center at night to develop the portfolio

and to learn how to draw. I didn't really sketch or do any other than art class.

Absolutely. Because like I wanted to be a car designer, but I also knew I couldn't draw like

a square. So I never, I just was not in my head that there's something I could do.

You didn't take any art in school in high school?

Like in high school, yeah, like art class. And in hindsight, I have had high school buddies

like, oh yeah, I always knew you would like design something. But I was unaware that I was doing

artistic things. I would paint RC car bodies. I would paint my buddies like motocross helmets.

Say no more. Okay. So I fussed around, but I wasn't like, I didn't know about art or design

really. And then art center, seeing that portfolio, you know, my senior year of high school,

that was like, whoa, you, you, you're getting paid to do this. You draw motorcycles. I'm in,

you know? Interesting. Wow. So.

But you know, it was commuting from Sun Valley to Torrance.

Yeah. He was on a motorcycle.

La Crescenta. La Crescenta. So he did the two to the 110 every day.

This morning. Yeah. It's terrible.

But on a motorcycle, I got passed by many. So it'd be a lot. I assume you rode a bike.

Yeah. I don't know if you ever rode a bike. I mean, you rode a ton of dirt bikes,

but I don't think he ever had a street bike. Oh, really?

Yeah. So he was driving in a Honda Accord every day to Torrance.

Now, I'm looking at your LinkedIn. And so you were, it says design internet fisker,

which we'll get to, but 2007. So you're like art center in the early 2000s?

Yeah. So I started in 03, I think, and then left in 07, 08, 08.

Yeah. We're old, dude.

Entering 50 like last week or something. That's great. So you're like 10 years younger than me.

Well, now to make you feel better, I've got designers now. They're like,

I was born in 01 and you're like, oh my God. Oh yeah.

Okay. All right. Yeah. That sucks.

I had to explain what an e-brake was the other day. Yeah.

We were looking at pictures of an old Hyundai Excel and I was like,

this is the fun lever and they had no idea the joke went right over their heads.

Why would they?

Then I had to explain like the parking brake.

And then they're like, why is that fun?

Yeah. Right. That's for parking.

Because front-wheel drive cars weren't fun unless you could.

Okay. So you did art center at night to learn to draw circles and squares.

Yeah. Exactly. The cubes and all that.

Yeah. And a little bit of PCC. I took some art classes at PCC to like.

Passing to City College.

Yes. Yes. Great place. Yeah. So yeah.

Okay. Very cool. And then, so how does that work? You go night school and then you get accepted

to the transportation program?

Yeah. You had to build your portfolio and I was leaving high school with nothing.

So I worked at PCC and an art center at night to build projects.

And how long does that take? That process?

I did like a year, year and a half. I was.

So I graduated high school 02 and I was in art center like middle of 03.

So I think like starting summer semester, fall, spring, and maybe summer.

I then I was starting. So it took a little over a year.

Who did you name check any other designers that we would know that were in your class?

A little bit ahead of me was Sasha when I was like lower term.

Actually, that whole term that he graduated in was like the all stars.

That was what we all went up to Sasha.

But in that semester was graduating.

I'm pretty sure I'm right on this. It was Sasha Richard Kim.

It was Michelle Christensen or Michelle Wilbur.

Yeah, Acura and Karma.

And then I'm going to miss I'm going to miss like three, but it was just loaded.

And I was like, man, if we can be that good when we graduate, you know,

and I still I like all those guys and gals. They're so talented and Sasha's amazing.

Yeah. Who are some of your instructors?

Oh, man, that's the great thing about design school, right?

You have such a loaded cast of people that still work.

So Ian Cardiobiano, John Krzyski, the head of the Genesis studio.

Ian's at Toyota, yeah.

Richard Petruska, who's just a long time like Arts Center institution.

Yeah, I just I just met him somewhere.

I think I met him at your booth at LA at the end of the show.

LA. He was hanging around at LA.

Yes, right. We took a picture of me, Sang up and Richard.

And I was like, this is insane. He taught this guy.

Yes, he taught. That's the thing.

He was like, Sang up was so I've never seen Sang up be like.

Reverential. Yes, exactly.

Great word.

Yeah, totally.

No, it's funny because I noticed that too.

And it was instantly I'm like, oh, yeah, you were a student too.

And I was of this one person, you know, that's wild.

I'm sure I'm missing some.

But that was that was the crew that I remember.

I'm still really good friends with John, obviously.

Now we're, you know, sort of I'm running the Genesis or Hyundai studio.

He runs the Genesis studio.

But I really look up to that guy and his mentorship and weird to have an instructor

that then I worked for him for a long time.

And then fast forward 15 years and I'm at his daughter's wedding.

I'm like, what do we what happened here?

Oh, that's cool. Hey, that's how it works.

It's great.

And then so so you get an art center and did you do an internship first

or did you go straight to work?

No, I did two internships.

My first one was at Fisker.

And he was doing the coach building at the time

and he was designing the car.

The Mustache Mercedes SLs and BMW 6 series.

Yeah, you're going to.

Yeah, I know.

You're going to test my memory.

It was Fisker or something.

It's going to hit me in traffic on the way home.

It was Fisker design, but there was.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can't remember the name of those two cars.

Yeah.

They were cool.

But the operation at the time was very humble.

I mean, it was an office building in Irvine

and it was him, Barney, the head of engineering.

OK.

And I think they had both left Aston together.

And they were the two that they're the two symbols in the Fisker logo.

It's him and Barney.

And then they had like a marketing gal, I want to say,

and a secretary.

And then the design team was two interns at a time.

And when you got hired in, was the karma something you worked on?

He worked on is being very kind.

OK.

He would do the design.

He would send you home with a vellum sketch

and you would render it in Photoshop

because your job as an intern, at least what I was assigned to do,

is like take my sketches and make them cool Photoshop renderings.

And so we would render, render, render.

But it was the karma.

It was the karma.

Yeah.

So he was he had the front three quarter.

He had that he had the views.

He's like, just render this for me.

And then he would mark it up a thousand little red marks.

I mean, what a neat thing to be involved.

Because like, look, this was awesome.

Despite everything that's happened.

Like, you know, the Rivera karma Rivera,

I think just went out of production in January.

Like that thing was in production from that body shape.

You know, but it was so good looking.

It couldn't die type of thing.

Yeah.

What a shape.

It was the experience for me because I was, you know, at fifth term,

you still know basically nothing.

Or at least I felt like I didn't.

Yeah, sure.

You scrounge together a portfolio.

And at the time the internship interviews were you had to get dressed up in a suit

and like Honda was at two and and Fisker was at three and Nissan was at four.

And you stood out in front of the college front doors with your suit on 30 of you.

And she would come out and go you and you.

And then the rest of you are like and go back to class.

And so I got some portfolio or just randomly pointing.

No portfolio.

So Henrik is in there and he's looking at 50 portfolios.

And he says this one of this one.

And I thought I might be in the running for a Honda or something that day.

I'm like, they'll probably like me.

And then nothing all day.

And then in the afternoon, Fisker, I'm thinking that is not the one that I'm qualified for.

I don't feel like I'm, you know, ready for that.

And at that time, too, in the car design world, he was a God, right?

Yeah.

The Z8, his work at Aston.

It's like the, I mean, the, the Vantage.

Yeah.

Everyone went Gaga for the 2005 Vantage.

Yeah.

No, he really was.

So walking into this, you know, blonde hair.

He's got a sharp suit on.

I mean, I was like, palms were sweating, but he could not have been nicer.

And the whole internship was fantastic.

He was awesome.

He was super nice guy.

At the height of the relaunch of the ocean.

And then yeah, well, yeah, it's happened.

He's great.

Yeah.

Did you, you didn't do, was this, this 2007, I'm looking at your, your LinkedIn.

Was that white star?

Did he, did he, did he do, which became Tesla?

No, I didn't see anything like that.

And then you said you had a second internship?

Volkswagen.

Yeah.

Volkswagen at DCC when it was in, on the airport, on Santa Monica airport.

Oh, that's, that's a good internship.

It was amazing.

Derek was the head of the studio at that time.

Also on the podcast.

Derek Jenkins.

Now at Lucid.

He's the head of Lucid, our chief brand officer or whatever.

Yeah.

I got to, got to intern for him.

And then he, he's been so gracious over the years to like,

every time I'm hitting like a, I need some advice, you know, and he's been awesome here.

Weirdly friendly and approachable and accessible guy.

Super, super friendly.

Yeah.

Great guy.

What, so, okay.

What did you work on there?

Yeah.

Door handles.

I did.

Yep.

Okay.

Yeah.

One of the things I got picked, I think, I don't know if it ever made it anywhere,

but I remember like, okay, your design for the hubcap on like a steel wheel of like a commercial van.

Alex, Alex Oral did the commercial van and I think I got to do the hubcap and

it was like the first thing that got made that I had drawn at a company and

Do you have one?

No, I don't.

Do you want one?

Yes, please.

Yeah, yeah.

Let's look it up.

And then I think I had a proposal for a Passat.

We were doing Passats and that studio at that time was definitely a satellite studio.

Like I remember Derek going to Germany with like all of our work and scale models and,

you know, images and generally the sentiment was like, thanks for that.

We'll take what we want and go back to Santa Monica, you know.

So it, at least that's how I perceived it.

You know, I was, I don't know, at the time, 21.

But it was just so exciting to be in that building and walking into a real car design studio

on the airport runway and watching jets fly by and you're like,

this is what you guys do all day.

This is crazy.

Yeah.

Johnny, 21 in 2007.

I don't want to talk about that.

I don't do, I'm not sure I'm doing the math right.

Maybe I was the early 20s.

Yeah.

But okay, so that internship ends.

Yeah.

What's your first hire?

Hyundai.

So I'm leaving, leaving school.

I had offers from, there was some potential there at Volkswagen through Derek,

but it would be in Wolfsburg, California kid.

It looked pretty cold.

And everybody that I talked to it at, at Volkswagen was designer on the designer level

was like, don't go over there.

But I, in hindsight, that would have been an amazing experience, just different, you know.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

So, and then Honda and I remember going to the Honda interview and I think two people

stopped by the room and they're like, you're Dave's kid.

And I was like, I'm not going there.

I don't want to be Dave's kid walking down the hallway just because he,

my dad had been there for 40 years.

Was he still there at the time?

Yeah.

Oh.

Yeah.

Oh, so that was like.

He might have been retiring, right?

Was it, was it really the stench of nepotism?

Or just you wanted to.

I just didn't want to be noticed as Dave's kid.

It really like weirded me out.

It's a very easy holiday.

What stench of nepotism?

That's like, that's all there is.

I would love some stench of nepotism.

I gotta work for everything I got.

Exactly.

It sucks.

So, no, I just felt that would be weird.

I don't like.

Okay.

And then, John Krzyski was my favorite instructor at Art Center.

And he was hiring at Hyundai and he was a design manager there.

And I'm like, well, this guy got really good stuff out of me in school.

I think it would be great to work with him.

And Hyundai in 2008 was, was cool, right?

The YF Sonata was really expressive.

Right.

And stood out from the accord and the Camry at that time.

So, I just felt like, well, this is a place that's obviously pushing.

So, you were able to deduce that like fresh out of, because I, you know, I would say like,

if I had looked at in 2008, like, you know, they made one interesting looking car where

they made a lot of not so interesting looking cars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you might even have some insider baseball knowledge like.

Well, I just, that YF Sonata had just come out, I think, as I was graduating and it was,

it was wild.

And I remember thinking like, well, they're trying some wild stuff over there and I really

liked John.

And then he was a really tough instructor.

But I felt like this place seems to be building momentum.

And so happy that I made that decision.

It's been great.

Sure.

Yeah.

And you've, you've been there since.

No, I, I did, I did three years.

Okay.

So, yeah, I did spent three years there.

You did work on there.

Veloster.

First thing was, no, I got to do the launch of Veloster, but Korea did that.

I'm not sure how he got roped into that.

But yeah, I was like, sure, I'll do it.

And then you're standing on stage at Detroit.

You're like, I don't want to do this.

I want to go home.

No, I did Genesis there.

Oh God.

Yeah.

They launched the Veloster.

I did the one at the end.

I did the graphics for that silly one that had like demonstrated the girl's lifestyle or

something like that.

They were trying to illustrate.

It was like a social lifestyle vehicle.

Right.

So that was when they would build, that was when they still do it.

But like you make up the your ideal customer.

Like Sally has.

Yes.

Some new friends.

Yes.

But she loves guitar amps and one and a half friends.

So you need a three door.

Yeah.

That's right.

But at that show, what I did do is the interior of the curb concept.

So that little white SUV, I did the interior for that.

I had a proposal for the exterior.

It didn't win.

And I was like, well, I want to get a show car.

You know, so I just tried the interior and it worked out.

But in addition to that, I did the Genesis Coupe facelift.

So that was my first production thing that I got chose.

Oh, that's cool.

I love that car.

Yeah.

Very cool.

I mean, I remember I got that was so exciting when that the Genesis Coupe came out.

Yeah.

We put on the cover.

I think we put Mustang killer.

Yeah.

We put a yellow one on, which got a lot of cool letters.

Well, you know, cool letters.

Right there.

Good story there.

Okay.

So you do that leave Hyundai and then GM.

Yep.

I go to GM and the satellite studio in North Hollywood, the advanced studio.

Right.

For Frank Salsito.

Sure.

Our head of advanced in Michigan.

So who we reported to was Clay Dean at the time and that was during the Ed Wilburn years.

And limited interaction with Ed, but seemed amazing and super friendly and easy going.

Really nice guy.

But Frank, I love Frank.

He was a Pasadena guy and that studio at that time was just killers.

Everybody there was a senior designer and everyone had done something somewhere else.

So you walked into this like frat house of like the best designers from

every studio they recruited from.

And it was intensely competitive.

But they were doing that.

So the single was long gone at that point, right?

No.

Single was gone.

He was gone.

Yeah.

Because it was like 2011.

2011, exactly.

Yeah.

He had already done Camaro.

Yes.

Camaro and then left for Bentley.

Yeah.

That's right.

So 2011, what were you working on when you got there?

Let's see.

Right when I got there, they had these pair of coupes because I had just done the concept

interior.

So I got brought on and as like you can do interiors or exteriors, depending on the project.

So I did the interior.

They had a pair of coupes that was like code 130R and true 140S.

Yeah, weird names.

It was like a little white mid-engine.

And then like code 130R, I remember.

Yeah.

And then a little red front engine.

Oh, that was like that.

Did it become a Buick?

Like they're going to do the Grand National or something?

I can't remember.

Yeah, code 130R.

Oh, yeah, they were a little too serious things.

Yeah, right.

So I think they were like testing like, do you want the mid-engine or do you want,

you know, the more classic profile?

And so I did the interior for that thing.

And then after that got to work on some of those Cadillac concept cars.

Oh, the greatest.

It's man, such a, yeah.

And it's funny because one of the podcasts I listened to with you,

you were talking about that unveil at Clint Eastwood's place.

Again, we were outdoors and like the air left the room.

I've never seen anything like it because they brought out something else.

I don't remember what it was at the time.

And then the CL rolled out.

And I mean, it was like dead silence outdoors.

Elmerash.

No.

Well, Elmerash.

Clint Eastwood's place was Elmerash.

The, they did two years in a row.

So the CL, the four-seater convertible, that was the one.

The Elmerash was fantastic.

But I remember that CL no one had ever, and that was like with the olive wood interior.

I remember the Elmerash drove.

Did you do the Elmerash from scratch?

Were you, were you used?

No, I was very much a support role on that project.

I did early interior theming, which they used some of it.

And Gail Buzan, the interior manager nailed that thing.

And then I transitioned at the end of the project onto helping Nikki Smart,

still a good friend of this day, amazing designer, did the aerial atom.

And then, yeah, did the CL Elmerash.

And there was one Cadillac before that that you had done, the ULC.

But yeah, I got to work with him on Elmerash.

He was having his second kids.

I remember like he had to kind of be places at a certain time.

And so I got to help basically execute the car and design a bunch of the details.

But just happened to be part of it.

Those are so strong.

If you're not familiar, just look at like, you know, Cadillac concepts of the, of the teens.

Like the strength of that design studio was just monsters.

Like, you know, just, just crazy.

I remember being a pebble and having people go like, when are you going to make the CL?

When are you going to make, you know?

And it's like, well, I'm glad you like it.

We agree, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not really up to us.

Yeah, exactly.

Right. That was, yeah, the follow through.

So when you were at both Hyundai and GM, did you get to travel much to HQ?

Did you go back to Korea at all?

Hyundai, you, I did any, we have monthly presentations, which we send designers to

to build the model and then all the models, you know, typically one from Europe,

one from us and one from Korea, or multiple from each will join in the HQ and view it in

front of everybody.

And all the different teams will go through it.

And then at the end of that week, chairman comes in and views it and makes the final call.

So we do that monthly, basically, almost every single month.

So I think you had to go every month or did some different?

No, like, depending on if you got something selected, you'd go.

So I think I went a few times in the first three years.

And then at GM, we were building all of our show cars in Detroit in the shops.

So when I, so after CL, then I did these little electric, they call PEV2 and PEV3.

They've later released them kind of unofficially, but at the time they kind of died a slow death

and they didn't release them.

We made two of the kind of a tandem cedar, a little electric personal electric vehicle,

PEV, and then we did like a three cedar, which one person in the front, two in the rear.

But we built four of those.

They look like big head smarts.

Exactly, that's a good description.

So they're right now, they're at somebody sent me the other day, they're at, what's the Disney

Epcot.

They're a whole ride is like GM design and my sketch is like huge on this wall.

Oh, that's cool.

And I'm thinking, where did you see this?

He's like, I'm at Epcot.

I'm like, wow, okay.

That's pretty cool.

It is, yeah.

Tomorrow there.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, that's all, yeah.

Right.

All right, so then you're at GM and then how do you get back to Hyundai?

So John was still there.

John was now sort of like the lead exterior manager and Sengup and Luke had just joined.

And he was like, man, this is like the next level, the Momentum's building.

This is 2017.

This is 16.

16.

They joined like-

So the year prior had just become the brand, right?

Genesis?

Yes.

Yeah.

It went from, if you recall, Genesis was a model of in the Hyundai lineup.

Right, yeah, Hyundai Genesis.

And the Hyundai Equus, don't forget the Equus.

Yes, that's right.

And the Genesis Coupe.

And it became, it was like, here Hyundai's trying to build a Lexus competitor.

Here's a rear drive, luxury sedan, and then spun off into its own brand,

which we'll talk about when we get to XR, what might be coming for XRT.

But let's go back.

So a year after the introduction, they start putting in the super group, like the Avengers.

That sounds like Peter Schreyer, right?

Yeah, Schreyer had been there for a little bit, but Luke and Sang Up had come.

And yeah, John was just saying, I mean, he had been kind of talking to me to come back

ever since I left.

But he said, look, these guys mean business.

They're serious.

They're going to change, I think, the trajectory of the company.

And he was right.

So I think I joined like three or four months after Sang Up did.

Oh, wow.

And yeah, it's been an awesome ride.

And in some ways-

That's 10 years since rejoining.

Right, right.

So all together, I think I'm at 13.

But in two different, I'm one of the rare cases that left and came back.

Boomerang.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

So how does that go?

How does the recruiting go within design?

Like you have this, you guys all know each other.

You have this relationship.

You've got a pretty good gig at GM.

Like the Overture is made, they recruited you, right?

So they go, they're like, we want this guy based on all this cool stuff he's done with us.

And then also with Cadillac, by the way, we're launching a luxury brand.

So this guy kind of slots right in here.

How do they sell you on it?

I don't think I needed much selling.

I think I had that Pev 2 and Pev 3 that I mentioned had just died

or seemed like it was going to die.

And it's like, man, I don't know if I can work in a studio where I work on something

for two and a half years and then it goes in the bin.

And that's common at large companies.

Yeah, well, satellite studios, typically that happens.

Hyundai doesn't do a lot of that.

Even at our, we are technically a satellite studio in California.

But a pretty major size studio.

Yes. Everything you work on is used.

There's no room for throwing stuff in the bin.

So that was attractive to me, having experienced the other side and that studio.

And I don't think it's like that anymore, but during that time.

So I don't think I needed much selling.

I was looking for, I want to make sure that whatever I draw is helpful

and I don't care if that's a hubcap or a car.

I want whatever I'm sketching to be used.

And then the Genesis thing was kind of being mentioned.

Like we might have a separate studio and I was like, that, that looks fun.

Let's do that.

So when I came back, it was right when John got to kind of separate himself internally.

So what you visited as the sandbox was the Genesis studio for a while.

Right.

And we were the first four people in there.

So two interior, two exterior with John.

And it was like, this is great, you know.

Right. So the sandbox is this over and following along.

Yeah.

The old Genesis studio is now the sandbox, meaning it's the XRT studio.

And we'll get to that because I was like, that was very cool.

I love, I love studios rarely get to go on them.

And that's like one of the coolest ones I've ever seen.

Awesome. Well, thank you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, but, but real quick, sorry.

So what I admire about, I'll say the Korean companies,

but Hyundai Kia Genesis is how they're so quick to move.

Yeah.

Something that, you know, American and Japanese and European car companies are really

welded to, wedded to eight-year cycles.

Yep.

And it seems that like, you know, that's not the case with Korea.

So was that an attract, did you know about that going in?

Yeah.

And was that attractive where it's like, you know what,

if it's not working, kill it and do something else.

Yeah. And I mean, it can be good and bad for you personally, right?

Because you may be going down the path and you've got the design selected,

the last minute chairman or saying up or somebody shows up and goes,

you know what, this is not the right, we're going to do this.

Right. And you're like, no, no, it's good, you know.

But a lot of times it works in your advantage, right?

Where like it is going down a certain path and we collectively go,

this is not what we should be doing.

Let's pivot over here.

And I liked the nimble, fast nature I still do of the company.

I think that's an asset of ours.

Yeah, I totally agree.

I think I always during interviews with design prospects just say, look,

if you are made uncomfortable by lots of changes and schedule changes

and deliverable changes, this is not the place for you.

And no judgment, it's not for everybody.

But it's exciting for designers, I think.

So yeah, it's been great.

So what did you work on at Genesis initially?

So the first thing I worked on when I came back was a GV80 concept.

So the first SUV.

Oh, wow.

So that was right when Luke and Sang-up were like penning,

you know, like, this is what we want for the first SUV.

So that's crazy because I think we drove the GV80 for the first time during COVID.

It was like 2020, four years of development or three and a half years.

Yeah.

So I did the concept right when I got back.

And that was launched in, what have been 12, I guess, like maybe the next year.

And then after that, the production version, one of my colleagues, Tony Chen,

went to Korea and did it with some of them.

Did the production version.

Yeah.

How was it, was the concept significantly different than the production car?

The rear, the whole thing got like a little bit more formal and a little more square,

like the current car now is a bit more robust, I would say more handsome.

The first concept version was a little bit lower and sleeker and sort of like nose down.

But I mean, the production car, I still think that thing looks super sharp

and carries all the best attributes of the concept, but just improved.

Right.

Yeah.

And then you moved to Hyundai design.

Yeah.

So I think there was a promotion available and the head of the Hyundai studio at the time,

Chris Chapman, was like, hey, Brad would be a good person to lead projects and lead a team,

because I was a senior designer up until that point.

So the promotion was available on the Hyundai side.

So I think it was exciting for me.

I always felt more comfortable doing Hyundai's, frankly.

I didn't really feel making something look expensive has always been a challenge for me.

Making something look tough or sport.

Yes.

And also I just, it was just more natural to me.

Like, these are the people that I grew up with.

I can understand how to design for them, but designing a Genesis or a Cadillac was intimidating.

It was, I could do it, but it took a lot more sort of like,

how do I get into their mindset?

What do they want?

I just didn't never really felt like a part of that customer.

So it did feel uncomfortable on the Hyundai side.

So how do you get into their mindset?

What do you do?

Mood boards.

Yeah, at the time, probably a lot of mood boards.

Stare at a big dive.

No, no, like really.

No, mood boards, right?

I mean, designers, you do a lot of that.

It's funny because you're expecting designers who don't really make enough

to be part of that luxury lifestyle, to be like, think like luxury customers.

You're like, well, I would love to.

I mean, that's, but surely one of the higher ups, and I'll call out saying,

yeah, they would, he would like, oh, let's go do a fancy thing.

Yeah.

And they do do that.

Yeah.

And I think, and also, you know, they've, he had all the training and sort of knowledge

and know how from Bentley and had that sort of, that thought process coming in.

So he was great and guiding.

And the first Genesis, the GB80, I mean, he was telling us what to do.

Basically, what did he want?

He was the section, here's the sections.

You would do theme sketches to get it rolling.

And then he would go, okay, got it.

Now do the section like this.

And so he was an awesome, still is an awesome teacher and somebody that you learn a lot from.

And you guys have had them on, you know how like passionate and excited he is.

And not an amazing individual.

Yeah.

He's really, yeah.

Yeah.

So he's, yeah, he's always safe from saying up to Sun Yong.

Sun Yong is one of my younger designers.

They're all killers, you know?

But I watched saying up still will do a little sketch for me and set it on telegram.

Like this, you know, and you're like, perfect.

That's what designers want is to interact with other designers that know what they want.

And you can kind of build on that excitement.

Well, I wanted to get a little bit on this.

So how do you, how do you go from, you know, Locker Center or Sun Valley

and sort of get in that mindset of like, you know, the headliner material should be

more like this and not so much like this.

Like do you, I think designers are naturally observant people.

Like if I think about my childhood, I was often like watching those around me and like

observing and it could be misconstrued as shy, but I think I was really enjoyed kind of like watching.

So I think designers are all like that.

We're more comfortable kind of watching the scene unfold and then getting inspired by that

and thinking about how we could challenge for like at GM for the Cadillac stuff.

I really like looking at old Cadillacs.

And I don't think I saw a lot of those when I was growing up.

It was typically like 64 and Paula's or something.

That was as cool as it got in where I grew up.

But the Cadillacs, it did hold a special place.

I think in any American's heart, that imagery is, is quite rich.

And so I think that's where I looked a lot was past Cadillacs and American architecture helped a

lot because you can imagine the people that are designing those cars are in these buildings, right?

The GM headquarters is a great example.

So I would gain inspiration from that and sort of think about what is the modern version of

that, right? That experience, that pride and also that Cadillac opinionated design where it didn't

care about what the Europeans were doing. It will do this.

Standard of the world, right?

Yes.

Okay, so that's for Cadillac.

But then how do you get that mindset for a brand new luxury car company from Korea?

You're a white guy from the valley.

Yeah, right.

Like do you, do you go?

Not even like really the proper valley.

No, it's the edge of the valley.

Did you go, did they send you to Korea and here's, go to Gangnam and like do it up and like?

No, I don't think so.

Because what, I mean, what was the brief on GV80? Was it for, was it for America, North America?

Right, who was yours?

I had a global premium.

It was global for sure.

But I think Desani in California, my influence when I look at that car and how it's used,

and you can see kind of my, some of my like scene renderings towards the end,

I was trying to depict the lifestyle, but it was definitely a modern, I always viewed,

we get to start a luxury brand here.

So we don't have any sort of like being tied down to legacy stuff.

And I think it, I viewed it as semi-affluent young families.

What do they want and what are they surrounding themselves with?

Part of the products that they're interested in.

They are not the typical luxury car buyer.

So I thought it gave us a lot of license to try whatever we wanted.

But I looked a lot at like, you know, semi-affluent young families in like California or New York,

what are they doing?

What are they interacting with?

And then how do we gain inspiration from that?

So that was sort of the, my sort of deep dive into who I thought would buy it.

And what's funny now is like early days of Genesis, especially,

what I noticed was a lot of like old white doctors would have that car.

Cause they're like, you get the same thing as this, but for less money, like very pragmatic.

Yeah, it's funny how often like the, the psychographic misses like,

I don't know if you get like the, the scion XB was like,

yo kids will steal, they'll be digging out of the back of their bottle.

It's like, oh, old people would like to garden,

you know, the Santa Cruz get soil into it.

Yeah. The Santa Cruz is the exact same way.

Right. Right.

Like had this idea of who we could be.

It'll be small compact.

So you could park it anywhere, but it's active.

You can throw stuff in the back.

And it's a lot of empty nesters doing Home Depot runs, which is great.

Yeah. Yeah.

But you had to know, you have to know that like the secondary.

Yeah. So what I inspiration you're saying comes from,

like they're going to throw their motorcycle in the back and whatever.

Yes. Yeah.

All right. So you, you, you get back to your more every man roots at Hyundai, which is great.

Yeah.

You've been there basically ever since your site hustle though,

is your teaching at Art Center?

I did. I did. I stopped a few years ago.

Okay.

Once I got into like a leadership role where now you have to keep track of eight or nine

projects, I was like, man, I don't, I'm burning the wick at both ends here.

Plus, because you live in Orange County, plus that commute must have been.

That commute.

That's a tough stuff.

And John, and John for several decades has locked down the Saturday.

So Saturday classes are the only availability is John's class.

So, so I, you, the rest of us had to do like Wednesday and you're leaving work at

315 and wide open through traffic on a motorcycle, you know?

Oh wow.

Or that, that flying autonomous car can't come fast enough.

That's right.

Yeah.

Where those are.

Um, so, so, okay.

The GV80 and then was Palisade the next big thing you did?

No, Santa Cruz.

Santa Cruz.

Yeah, Santa Cruz.

Okay.

So that was the first project that I managed.

So working with several designers and, and making sure that,

yeah, guiding a team and learning how to do that.

That's a whole different challenge.

You know, being a good designer doesn't prepare you for being a good leader and helping.

Empower others.

So that was a big, you know, transformation of my career and understanding how to do that.

But Santa Cruz was awesome.

I grew up riding, driving trucks.

So I had a, a lot of conversations with the designers when we first started.

What is this thing?

It's, it's, let's say it's not a truck.

Okay.

Then what is it?

Right.

And it has an identity that all its own, right?

So we have to talk about it like that.

And once we kind of came upon this term sport adventure vehicle,

it really took on that lifestyle image.

And we understood that, okay, it's not a CUV.

It's not a Tucson, which is what it's based on,

but it's definitely not a truck as people would traditionally recognize it.

So I think that helped us sort of free ourselves from

any sort of preconceived ideas of what a truck is or what a car is.

Okay.

Can I ask you, was there a real like, no, we're not going to, like,

I think about like the Ford Maverick, which is based on the Ford Escape,

right?

Which is a competitor to the Tucson.

Yeah.

And it looks like a pickup truck.

Yep.

Was it, was it really like we're not going to make the Santa Cruz look like a pickup truck?

Was that like a,

I mean, keep in mind when we were doing Santa Cruz,

it was before the Maverick existed, right?

So we didn't, and also we don't have a truck legacy to reference.

They do.

Yeah.

So I think they, it serves them.

I think both decisions were correct.

They should make it look like trucks because they make trucks.

So that makes sense.

I'm just asking, since it really, you know, it looks like a Subaru Brack.

Agile.

Yeah, right.

More than anything.

It's an agile.

You know, we're a weird El Camino type thing.

But like, was there like, we don't want it to look like a three box pickup?

Was that like a thing or just wasn't even a contention?

I was probably,

as a growing up driving trucks, I was very aware that like, don't try to make it look

like something that it isn't.

So any sort of like indication of a bed separation when it's a unibody,

why are we doing that?

Right.

They know it's not a separate bed.

Right.

So let's design it.

And people forget how sophisticated truck buyers are.

Or at least I would say, no, they have a huge knowledge base.

Exactly.

And you can't trick them, you know?

No.

No, that's a very good point.

So you can see on the facelift, we made a concerted effort to try and make it look a

little tougher because now we do have the Maverick in the landscape,

and that definitely looks like a truck.

There was adjustments afterwards to try to make it look more vertical.

And we had this little, on the facelift, we had this little tagline internally,

less football, more football.

So like they're both agile.

They're both athletes, but this one is running downfield,

and this one is making dynamic cuts, you know?

Got it.

Interesting.

And then when did, so, sorry, what else?

What other vehicles will we talk about?

My XSB and...

Yeah, I mean, Santa Cruz, and then, I mean, it really started after that,

doing like a lot of the early XRT work.

And at the time, it was a lot of like, you know,

just sort of variants of this vehicle that's already been out.

Can we do an XRT version of it?

Let's just get to XRT.

Let's talk about what is XRT.

Extreme rugged terrain is what the letters stand for,

but it's Hyundai's effort to produce lifestyle outdoor vehicles,

similar to what other companies do, but in our own way.

And I think slowly when we're building capability,

design always wants to do stuff like this, right?

We know that there's an appetite from the customer,

even with their base CUV, being blacked out is attractive to them,

blacked out with a roof bar already.

Or like what Subaru's doing with the wilderness stuff, like it's just, you know,

and, you know, I know with Subaru, they were like,

hey, everyone buys our stuff, and then they do this to it.

Right.

Let's cut out the middleman and sell it to them.

Yeah.

What was the first XRT?

Well, Santa Cruz.

Yeah, Santa Cruz XRT.

And the time was done by like the customization team in Korea.

And they, you know, do normally the accessory design and things like that.

But for a company like Hyundai accessories,

historically have been kind of limited to floor mats and roof rails, right?

And mud guards.

As you venture into focusing on the American customer,

that's not good enough.

We've got to do better at those things.

So XRT is tied to accessory sales and all that stuff.

We want to build that.

You're sort of the perfect guy for this growing up.

Like who your father was and what he did.

But also like, you know, riding dirt bikes as a kid.

I mean, that's the Southern California desert lifestyle.

It all goes back to like, let's go out in the dunes and run around and get muddy.

And that's, you know, I look at like with the, you know, I walked in.

First of all, Ed, you should go down to the studio.

It's amazing.

But like, it's like,

haven't been in one.

Yeah. Well, you got to work on your personality.

But on one wall, it's just like they have monster truck tires.

Like they have like 18 inch wheels on 33s, on 35s, 20s on, you know, and up to like

Arctic truck 40s, 44s, and you can walk up the desert and walk up and like spin them

and see them in motion.

And then they have all the like outdoor gear that you, you know,

people are so into like not only bolting to their trucks,

but like the backpacks and the water solutions and the, it was crazy.

I mean, that stuff is also for us to remind ourselves of like where the industry is now

and where we're at.

Let's be honest about that.

And how do we need to bridge the gap and get to the point where customers are,

like you said, are already doing this.

There's clearly a desire to, to modify more, to engage with their vehicle more.

And that engagement builds a personal connection to that vehicle and your brand.

And we've seen other companies do this so successfully.

And I think Hyundai does fun and does engagement quite well.

We haven't yet done it in this space, which is why we're focusing more on it.

So it starts off with the Santa Cruz.

It's a, it's essentially now a trim level, is that fair to say, on a lot of the Hyundai SUVs.

And the plan is that it might become its own with the crater concept,

become potentially a standalone brand.

Is that accurate?

I don't know that we're committing to saying that, but we definitely want to encourage

each model to bring more capability beyond just the unibody SUVs that we've done right now.

So we're constantly fighting for that.

And we'd love to kind of explore different expressions of what that is.

Sometimes it's not necessary on a Kona.

You don't maybe don't need to do a ton of capabilities,

but they still do like it to be customized in some way.

But on the other end of that, we're definitely exploring the most extreme versions of outdoor

lifestyle and how the vehicle needs to support.

But like, you know, cause I mean, you said, you know, some of your competitors have done

it very successfully.

Like I went on the launch of the forerunner and we didn't have time to drive all the variants

that they sold initially, you know what I mean?

Just out the gate and, you know, they have a $30,000 price spread among models.

And they have two that are basically 70 grand, you know, the old man.

Kevin Trailhunter.

Trailhunter.

And then the TRD.

But I mean, it's like, it was just, I was just fascinated.

Like, man, they know this segment.

Like they know their customers and they know what people will be paying.

That's the dollar signs for the corporate execs at Hyundai Motor.

Like we need to deliver more on this side.

But then you're the guy who has to make it legit.

Yeah, right.

So XRT at launch was some accessories, some styling cues, right?

Make it look a little tougher.

Yeah.

What vehicle currently would you say has the most sort of mechanical upgrades for XRT?

It actually has.

I think we've, Palisade XRT was the first XRT Pro.

So we've gotten to front and rear tow hooks.

We've gotten to, you know, a bit more of a suspension lift, all-terrain tires.

So that's the base level that we need to expect from ourselves,

regardless of whatever car it comes on, right?

And I love this phrase that the car has to start earning the badge.

Yeah.

And I think we, you know, like anything starts out in humble beginnings and we say,

okay, we'd like to do this.

What can we do at first?

So we're slowly building that capability.

The opportunity that I see in front of us is what I saw with N.

We're doing N in a way that in some ways is consistent with what customers have expected

from performance brands.

But Ioniq 5N set a new precedent for like how we'll do this kind of car.

And it's such, I'm sure you guys have driven that.

Extensively, yeah.

It's such a fun experience and shifted my perception of where the opportunity is with XRT.

We don't have to do what certain legacy brands have done.

We know the capability that you're asking for.

We can definitely improve and get better at that.

But from an experience standpoint, we've got to do it in a fun way.

And I think Ioniq 5N in some ways is like my North Star for when we develop XRTs.

If we can deliver that in an XRT in this format,

that's where the opportunity is and where we can stand out from others.

The fun factor.

So can we talk about Crater because I like two things.

One, so Crater pause Google Hyundai Crater concept.

And it's a little, it looks like to me, it's maybe an Ioniq 5 base,

but it's a jacked up off-road EV.

But like no bumpers, like exposed big, like for there's 33s or 35s, 18-inch wheels,

super tough, you know, invade Mars rover type thing.

Looks like out of the halo.

Yeah, looks like a little bit of a reference.

Yeah, a little bit of a halo mask.

Super tough.

Or an E-launcher on the back or something.

But small.

And then, so I'd like you to talk about the exterior,

but then I don't think you did this, but I think that's like

one of the best interiors I've ever seen on a vehicle.

Like please tell me that is somehow making production because

it is just so wildly great.

It's crazy.

Crazy?

No.

Oh, it's so good.

It's such a good interior.

It's really good.

And that's what I mean by that that's our opportunity is to bring fun.

Yeah.

And whether that's through the UI UX or whether that's through the shape of something

or the little hidden crater men everywhere,

I think that's our opportunity and how we can remain true to Hyundai,

but do products that we know the American customer and global customer for that matter

are interested in.

To me, I look at that and I'm like, how does this,

I don't want to say like not interproduction immediately, but like.

Yeah.

Includes an incident.

But Hyundai's been doing this, I'm blanking on the name,

but that DeLorean looking thing.

74.

Chillsaw concept.

Like that should have been in production.

Yeah.

You know, I remember I spoke with your chairman and I was like, I pull, you know, at Pebble.

And I was like.

He's on Chung.

Yeah.

Oh, great.

And I said, listen, I go, you know, I do a lot of, you know, social media stuff.

Everybody was like, that's a Hyundai.

I'd buy it.

Like I'm like, go with that.

Yeah.

And not that the crater is, you know, that universal, but like, yeah, that's that thing.

Right.

Should be, I showed the option to buy that, you know,

especially that interior.

Yeah.

So the interior, yeah.

Good point was done in the Nam Young studio.

And that was, the interior was Korean.

Yes.

Yeah.

And the exterior was done in our studio.

Actually, one of the designers that we have coordinators that'll come over for four or

five years at a time, he's an exterior design manager.

So he came over and with our American designers designed that crater concept.

And so it's such a cool intersection of like, you can see,

I mean, he's a tremendously accomplished sumo guru, tremendously accomplished

Hyundai designer, did a bunch of the Genesis, did the G80, all blank on all that.

But I've done a ton of cards for Hyundai and Genesis, really awesome designer.

But you can see him learning American culture through a different lens over the course of

four years or so.

And the crater was kind of towards the end of his time in our studio and working with

our American designers and myself.

You can see the influence of both sides, right?

Let's do off-road, but what's a different perspective on off-road?

And the Korean designers did that really well with the interior.

They listened to all my feedback and like, all our sort of learnings from California

Proving Grounds and you can use the floor mats to get the car unstuck from sandy pits.

And you need a handle here and you need this.

But it just looked like it was so smart, like the instrument panel,

it was that round tube thing, which looked like it was strapped on.

And the seats looked like bedrolls.

If you're in the backpacking, you're climbing into a backpack.

It's like climbing into an REI.

I just thought, I was like, it blew me away.

When she first did that sketch of the cylindrical...

Well, I met her.

Oh, goodness.

Gosh darn it.

I knew you'd ask me something.

Yeah, sorry, but she was very nice.

And I was like, you did this?

Wow, this is amazing.

But yeah, when she first did that seat sketch, I was like, that looks like just a roll.

Like at REI, when you go to find your mattresses, the air mattresses and they're all rolled up.

I was like, that's genius.

In fact, could we take one of those out and make it a...

But it also had like a very like 82 Camaro kind of...

Something sporty and cool about it.

I don't know the way the black leather was pleated.

Big pleats.

Did you in the design of the exterior, did you guys do any field trips?

Did you take the team out and go camping or...

Not specifically for the crater, but the last three or four years have been sort of

because if you imagine you're an engineer in Korea and the designers from America are calling

you telling them, we need 35-inch tires, he's thinking, why would you ever need that?

And by the way, I can look at the data and it shows that you guys never go off-road.

So why do you need 35-inch tires?

So from an analytical product planning engineering brain, that those requests seem ridiculous.

And they are for most customers.

Right, sure.

But when you're in Newport Beach with your...

Look at cheap some Broncos.

Right.

When you're in Newport Beach with your Raptor all armor all the up, it doesn't matter.

That you want the...

You like the idea that it could do that.

Right.

And I think that's part of that room.

Plus it just looks good.

I mean, let's like the Bronco on Sasquatch.

America's all about show.

Broncos on with the Sasquatch package looks a lot better than a standard Bronco,

which doesn't look so good.

So that's part of that room is an educational sort of library for the designers here while

they're designing, but also for visiting engineers and visiting product planners to

slowly get comfortable with the precedents that we're setting within the company saying,

we will do this size tire for these reasons.

But the field trips, we've done like an off-roading experience in Big Bear.

We got super lucky that it poured rain the day before.

So up there was just three and a half feet of snow.

The whole day was just four by fouring through a postcard.

It was insane.

But it's CPG's Jeeps.

So it's the four by four Jeep experience.

I would highly recommend.

I wish I remembered his name, gosh darn it.

I'm familiar with it.

Yeah, I know the trail.

Awesome. Super clapped out Jeeps.

But Jeeps are good in snow.

Weirdly good in snow, yeah.

This is how sort of naive I am to how extreme four by fouring at times because,

yeah, we drive off road to go to the dirt bike track or to...

But I hadn't done like crawling and I called Desi.

Desi is the name.

I called him the day before.

I'm like, hey, it's pouring down here.

Is it okay?

And he's like, yeah, it's fine.

They're Jeeps.

It's good.

But it was just such a blast.

And so learnings like that, I think you take away what other companies have done well,

but you also start thinking about, okay, but at Hyundai,

how can we do this differently?

And I keep coming back to Ioniq 5N, but when the shifting was explained to me,

like on paper, I have to admit the first time I'm like, that's kind of silly.

Why would I want that?

And then you go outside the gates in Simon Loseby's Ioniq 5N and he shifts through the gears

and you're like, oh, five seconds in, you're like, this is the most fun ever.

I don't care if it's not real shifting.

Sure.

It's gamification.

It's fun.

It's fun for fun sake.

And I'm good with that.

And the crater has a lot of that too.

So we want to build on that notion.

So I think what's important to point out for the audience who's maybe not so familiar

with Hyundai or its product line and what we're talking about is,

I think you bring up in line, it's a great North Star.

Because culturally, if you compare Korean car culture versus certainly American car culture

and even Japanese car culture, very different.

There is not a performance pedigree in Korean car culture.

Hyundai Motor Company, the Chable, whatever, the whole, that thing, it's from industry.

It's from steel.

And it's from helping the country survive out of some tough times and we're going to

consolidate and you're the guy to run this.

Not a lot of time for the Frippery School racing around, right?

Very practical.

Super practical.

And it's reflected in the cars.

You take the cars that came here, right?

And all the jokes when Hyundai's Excels were running around, but it's like,

hey man, this is what Japanese car companies did too.

You start with the economy vehicles.

You learn how to build them.

They got pretty slim margins, but you make a ton of them.

Now the interesting thing is Toyota, Honda, and even Nissan all at the same time

did very early develop a motorsports arm.

Honda in particular, right?

Like Honda's got this great legacy of Formula One.

Of all things.

Don Serti is 1960.

You can drive an F1 car great.

So really a huge challenge for you, the design team.

Like how do you build credibility on motorsports, on N-line?

How do you do it in the off-road space, right?

Like because I think there's people listening going,

you guys, this is ridiculous.

There's no car.

In fact, a lot of manufacturers lean really hard on some of these like Toyota and the Land Cruiser.

They have this credibility.

It goes all the way back to the first two cars sold in the US.

One's a Toyota Crown, the other's a Land Cruiser.

Crown's burned up on the highway.

And for a while, the Land Cruiser is the only car Toyota ever had here, right?

So they have that unbroken.

I think I asked this saying up at the LA show,

like Hyundai actually has, it's a Galopur.

The Galopur?

Galopur.

Galopur, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right, they have an off-road vehicle that they could sort of pull from.

But I don't think you guys are going that direction, right?

No, and there's some reasons.

I mean, that was partnership with Mitsubishi.

So it's not like such a fun thing to bring up.

So for us, we've got to build it here organically.

I think if you would have told me joining the company in 2008,

you'd have something like the Ioniq 5N, there's no way.

We were a really solid sedan and CUV company.

That's how I viewed it in the States.

There's a ton of products in Korea that we don't know about here.

They do have a legacy of building really heavy industry stuff.

So they're not a company that doesn't build tough products, right?

We've got to build that sort of narrative and image here in the States.

But we've got a history of building heavy industry stuff, right?

I think we need to look it up.

Yes, Hyundai commercial translate.

The company is, as you said, born out of necessity and built as a company first

that provides very practical products.

But we've established ourselves as a company that has new approaches to each of these,

whether it's developing EVs or developing performance vehicles.

And that's going to be the same with XRT.

And I think we do go into that space with a lot of respect and reverence

for our competitors that have been here for a long time and are very established.

But you also come in and go, well, we can do that better.

There's lots of things that we can do better coming in with less legacy or less attachment to

if you change too much on the next gen, whatever, the customer's pissed.

And we don't have that.

It's like, yeah, I talked to Jeep guys a lot about this.

But yeah, if a Jeep didn't have two solid axles, like literal revolt.

And the G-Wagon, which arguably might be better with two solid axles,

they got rid of one sales one way up.

It went crazy.

In fact, the best year ever for G-Wagon was 2025.

So it's one of those things where it depends on the customer.

And so since you don't have legacy, I think it would be very easy to say,

hey, look what Ford did.

Like the Bronco, they had it for a couple of years, they brought it back.

It's basically a Jeep clone and like, wow, they're selling a lot of them.

But no solid axle.

But no solid axle in front, just the rear.

Yeah, which Jeep guys will point out forever.

But you know what?

I've driven the Bronco Raptor on chocolate thunder.

It doesn't need a solid axle.

So yeah, so I'm just curious, I guess my question, what I'm trying to say is,

to me, if I'm going to start an off-road sub-brand or whatever,

I'd say like, let's make our Wrangler, whatever that is, could be the crater.

Is there a push within?

Like we need a dedicated like one mile per hour off-roader?

Or you guys are like, eh, we can do something.

I think all of the above.

I think we want to push ourselves to compete on the highest level of capability.

And if that demands body on frame, and then we're doing that.

But we're also doing, we see a need for, like keep coming back to like Kona,

because I don't think you ever expect a Kona or something like that to like conquer certain trails.

But through all of our testing and experiences, it is shocking even to me,

with all-terrain tires and all-wheel drive, you can kind of go up whatever you want.

I'll never forget it was, I don't know if you know, row or flat, but since I was in Clarita.

Pretty serious trail.

Sure.

And, you know, I fear we were driving something heavy duty and we're like, wow, we made this thing

so great.

And then a super outback wilderness.

Yeah.

The guy destroyed the car getting up the trail, but he got up the trail.

He got up.

And I'm like, what are you doing, dude?

He's like, I don't know, just keeps going.

Yeah.

We did some stuff in Jawbone with our cars and competitor vehicles and all-terrain tires

with a one-inch lift and all-wheel drive.

You can kind of go up whatever you want it to go.

Sure.

Now, body on frame with really serious off-roading capabilities, you do it with no concern.

So that's the difference, I think, and what we're striving for.

But yeah, I mean, I think all levels will be considered, and it depends on the customer

and depends on the price point, of course.

But yeah, we got to do it in our own way.

Well, let me talk about your own way, because maybe the narrative's changed.

One of the things Sanyam showed me at the crater walk around at the LA show was a little tiny,

like stamped steel mock-up of the body of the crater.

Yes.

And at the time he said, because we were talking about, I asked him a sort of similar question,

like how do you start from scratch?

Again, no credit, no product line, no Willys Jeep that helped win World War II or whatever.

Yeah, no problems in the 60s.

No problems in the 60s, no Land Cruiser.

Where do you start?

And he showed me this little body in steel, and he's like, we're going to talk about a Hyundai

steel.

Yeah.

Is that still, is that part of the XRG narrative?

And that's part of our design narrative, and has been for a little while, this idea of art of

steel, letting the material kind of honestly be portrayed.

I think Hyundai is a company at this stage that's searching for really great proportions,

but design that's not tortured or sort of asking the material to do something it's not supposed

to do, whether that's inside the car or outside the car.

So we're looking for a more honest representation of each vehicle.

And I don't think that term honesty gets applied more appropriately than to off-road vehicles.

What you like about that 65 Bronco is the honesty with which it was produced.

It's just a box, the wheels are here, there's not crazy lines everywhere.

So I think even the crater, it is definitely gestural and the most expressive XRT that we

have at the moment.

But if you really evaluate the form language from that little sculpture, it's quite honest

in terms of, there's not really styling, there's really just the folds of the steel

to get to the correct proportions.

It's a turnout stretching.

With giant wheel arches for show muscles.

A lot of facets that create that really cool look.

What's unique, I think, and this is the point I'm getting at, the story is interesting because

you don't have the legacy and the history of these other vehicles, you take it down to the

element and it's not like, I'm not talking about Hyundai Aluminum, I don't know,

Hyundai Steel, like Steel is a big part of, it's actually a big part of Korean culture.

We'll look at one of the bowls and the chocolates we're made of.

It's because Steel is so prevalent and we're going to build all of our stuff out of it.

So let's build our off-roaders and make this sort of a, this becomes our brand,

our part of the ethos.

That's a funny thing you bring that up, the first couple trips to Korea because I had

never been outside the country until, other than Mexico, until my first trip to Korea.

So talk about cultural shock, like the food and you didn't go to Seoul.

We were in Namyang.

Namyang at the time, especially, you're in the middle of nowhere.

You're in the middle of nowhere.

It's so funny still to this day, neighbors will go like, that's cool, you get to go to Korea.

How's Seoul?

I'm like, I've seen it three times.

I couldn't tell you, you know.

So anyways, when I first got there, the gratuitous amounts of stainless steel in an

otherwise like, this is an industry town.

This is not like a fancy place and stainless steel everywhere.

And I'm like, man, in America, that's like a expensive material that we only use

if we absolutely have to or in a kitchen or something.

You're watch, yeah.

Right.

So to see it just everywhere, you understood, oh, this is a big part of this culture.

They produce a lot of steel.

It's very clever.

I think it's a clever use.

And the only thing, I had this in my head for a long time because I want to ask you about it next

because we have talked, we didn't have on the pod, but what was his name?

Beerman.

Albert Beerman.

When he came to from, you know, Korea, Korean manufacturer, Korean company.

Hyundai's been very smart.

Yeah.

Hiring Peter Schreyer, first non-Korean to be anything like the board of management.

Right.

And he had all this influence and design.

He also helped bring my understanding is Albert Beerman over.

That dude ran BMW M like forever.

Right.

I talked to him shortly, about 18 months after he arrived.

Actually, I think in Korea, I went to Namyang.

I think it was for Stinger.

I was the cutest thing I was ever talking about.

Oh, cool.

And I asked him like, what's the difference between working at a German company for like

30 years and coming to Korea?

And he basically summed it up as like hustle culture.

He's like, we will.

Huge.

He's like, we'll do a design review on like late on a Friday and talk about some stuff.

And then I'll show up on Monday and there will be like five iterations of what I,

just some thoughts I had thrown out.

And that means the guys had worked the entire weekend.

Yeah.

Based on stuff that I had said.

And here it is.

Like you would never see that in Germany.

No, especially in Germany.

Is that accurate?

Maybe especially in England, but then Germany.

Is this something you have seen?

And then do you think this helps make up this deficit in sort of

credibility or authenticity in the spaces of motor sport and off-roading?

A hundred percent.

We have a review right after this in El Segundo with Sang Up.

And he's coming to our studio at eight o'clock Monday morning.

So what do you think has to happen between 4.30 on a Friday afternoon?

Right.

And so, and we all, yeah, at times it can be like, man, we got to work at night or we got to do this.

But you, you, I think we're all bought into that mentality that like,

because we have this culture within Hyundai,

it does allow you to be a lot more competitive with a lot less, less time or less budget or less

whatever.

Sure.

But we can be quite, as you mentioned at the start, quite nimble and fast.

My understanding is like, this is how Chinese car companies operate.

Like just the speed, which they can just iterate and throw stuff away.

But I just, when I got, I didn't know when I started writing about cars that like,

there's an eight-year cycle.

You do four years, you do a mid-cycle refresh, rinse, repeat, Porsche 911 every eight years.

And the first major manufacturer I started to really break that was Hyundai Kia Genesis,

where it's just like, you know what?

Everyone likes the Stinger and not selling, gone, you know?

It's like, what?

Like, no, like, you know, and there's one example.

And, or, you know, just the amount of like-

That's what the smart companies do.

I mean, Hyundai, Hyundai kills stuff all the time.

Yeah.

Oh, not at the rate.

Yeah, but not at the, well, the CRC was a niche of a niche, but like, you know,

not at the rate that like Hyundai and Kia, no, just like by the amount of, you know,

Sonatas and, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

It's just fascinating to watch.

No, it's a really awesome internal company culture.

It's fast.

It's dedicated.

They are not messing around.

And I've always liked that energy.

And I think that's part of what I missed when I was gone for a short period of time was,

I like, like, we're here, if you're going to be here, let's make an impact.

Let's give them something that they're asking for and let's do it quickly.

So I've always really appreciated that and saying up and Luke and the whole company culture,

even Chairman, I mean, Chairman shows up to those monthly reviews and he'll catch stuff that

is always shocking to me like, man, this guy is running a massive operation here.

And he's like, isn't there supposed to be a windshield wiper on the back of that hatchback?

And you're like, wow, how did he, how did he notice that?

You know?

So it's, the whole company is, is driven, excited and motivated.

And the quality of the products overall is just like, you know,

Yeah.

Like, like some, somebody was just telling me their wife traded in a Porsche for a

We didn't talk about that.

So my wife, my wife has, we have an Ioniq 5.

We don't know.

He has an Ioniq 5 for a year.

We got our 2025.

We got, so we got one of the first that has the NACS on board, which is like a perfection.

It drives, I love it.

Drives great.

I love the pics.

We didn't even talk about you, you, you did a lot of the, the pixel motif, right?

No, I won't take credit for that.

We evolved it because we were like, well, when you do the XRT version of the Ionix,

you got to use the pixel, right?

Everyone loves the pixel.

And what I love about the pixel is Ioniq 5 was designed in Korea by a bunch of people,

but Bumsu chose now the head of exteriors in that building, but kind of globally.

Super creative designer, did the N74, just such an all-star talent.

But I, the Ioniq 5, when him and Simon and Sangha developed that with the team in Korea,

the pixel, it comes down to like a symbol in Korean alphabet and was like one of the first

sort of icons in, in, I'm using the wrong words, but you know what I'm saying.

And so the, but the representation of it was, we've zoomed into the final pixel, right?

We've taken care of every little piece on this vehicle.

And it resonated so well with like multiple generations.

Either you thought it looked like Tetris, or you thought it looked like Mario,

or you thought it looked like Minecraft.

Oh, fine.

But regardless, it clicked, right?

Yeah.

So it clicked with everyone like, oh, this reminds me of, and Simon,

Simon mentioned, what's the ping pong back and forth?

Pong, Pong.

And I go, and just joking, I was like, what's that?

I did, I do remember, God, I was five, so 1980, getting in the tari and Pong.

And we had, we had literally had the, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And it was so exciting to have Pong and we had Tank.

Yeah, yeah.

So, but at XRT, then we're like, well, it's got to be in the pattern of the pixel

camo, you know, like let's make the cladding have that.

So we've developed it and kind of seen value in it.

And it's definitely a motif that is ours.

And we sort of put the flag in the ground.

So we're going to continue.

Who did, who did the Easter egg crater man?

Whose idea was that?

We had started playing around with this idea of an Easter egg.

There was a proposal on a vehicle that, where they had kind of a little figure.

And marketing for that region eventually killed it was like,

we don't want to put a face on this.

And Simon had to be in his bonnet about that's a cool idea.

We're going to do that on some car.

I'm going to sneak it in somewhere else.

So it, as we started doing crater, he was like, why don't we have like a little cartoon of a guy?

And so they started kind of developing, kicking the idea back and forth.

But yeah, it's like a pixel version of a little character.

And since then, it's been a fun like exercise for the design team to go like, okay,

if this is the icon and the superhero for this vehicle, how does the car look or vice versa?

And is it, it is a nod to the graffiti artist invader, right?

Have you known invader?

No, no, no invader.

If you go into any major city, actually a lot of like second tier, third tier cities,

there's a guy who does tile art tile graffiti.

Cool.

And if we're just coloring the lines, no, he's, he's actually taking tile.

And they'll be about, you know, maybe less than a foot in the overall.

And he slaps them like on major, like if you go into Paris, it's, it's very close to all the major

icons and invader, UC invader was here.

And it's like, it will be, it will be like a little dragon.

It'll be Pac-Man.

It'll be something really cool.

And it's pixelated in the same way.

We're going to have to do a collaboration.

Yes.

Can you find people like this?

I feel like their identities are often-

No, this guy is, he's apparently, I mean, this guy's been around forever.

And everywhere, every time I travel and I see an invader artwork, I try to Instagram it.

Or I'm going to have to find this person.

Okay.

So interesting that it's not, it's not a nod.

I mean, maybe one of your designers was like, I want to put Steve this thing in.

I think it was originally the, that symbol specifically came from a front view sketch

and the way that the skid plate was designed kind of looked like teeth.

And we were like, oh, that's kind of cool.

He's like a, he's got like a little kind of Pac-Man influence, like chom-chom.

So that's sort of what built, built upon that image.

Okay.

I only have a couple of questions left.

We're, we're pretty far over here.

I guess we liked them.

We, we, we-

Past 15 minutes.

Yes.

We kept talking, we keep talking about, or you keep mentioning body on frame.

All right.

Good, good, good segue.

You know, in, with, not within, not in the Hyundai brand, but within the broader group,

IKEA, there's this Kia Tasman pickup truck.

Yeah, global.

It is a global, it's a, it's not in the US.

It does compete against the Hilux, the Ranger, Ford Ranger.

It's a body on frame pickup truck.

It seems like something that you could easily slump a Hyundai badge on and turn into-

Before you answer, there's also, I've seen a bigger truck, maybe camouflaged,

much bigger truck, kind of, you know, kind of in between like a Rivian and a Ford F-150 size thing.

We know you can't comment on these potential future products.

I just got this job.

All right.

I really like my job.

But does, does XRT need the credibility?

And first of all, is there credibility?

You're a, you're a dirt bike guy.

You know all the same, right?

Is there inherent credibility in body on frame trucks and SUVs?

And then does XRT need it?

Of course.

I think there's, everyone sort of sees that that's the level of capability that

unlocks a different, yeah, a level of capability, right?

Gets us to a stage where we can, we can have a more authentic discussion

about products that we can make.

So yeah, without, without losing my job that I like very much.

Yeah.

I mean, I look, I got to shove my dirt bike into the back of the Santa Cruz.

It can be done.

I did it.

Right.

But I think eventually that's a thing that has to get transferred to-

And you want two dirt bikes.

That's right.

You want your friend to come with.

That's right.

Right.

Yeah.

So I think, as I mentioned earlier, we're looking into all forms of outdoor sort of

lifestyle vehicles.

But yeah, body on frame is the key to the next level.

All right.

That looks good.

So I don't really see a body on frame vehicle.

I think that information's out there.

I think, luckily for me, the term that I was given was, yeah, before 2030.

Okay.

So.

Oh, hey, it's 2026 and-

Yeah, for me that-

My head is still 2006.

Yeah, that's right.

That's true.

That's-

Yeah, I had to write down for my son's flag football signup.

Year of graduation, I was like 2037.

Geez.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Which seems like a million years away, but apparently-

Uh, no, he's seven.

Oh, graduation.

Graduating, yeah.

Okay.

He's seven.

I only know because the 529 account for my son is 2038 entry into college.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My kid's eight, so, yeah.

Yeah, get that 529 going.

Get that 529 going.

That's right.

Tax-free compounding interest.

I've got it.

Yeah, but they're also saying like, hey, by the way, it'll be like 700 grand for career education by then.

The joke is right.

Yeah.

This is what gets people annoyed.

By the time my kid goes to college, President Sasha Obama will have made it free or

Emperor Barron Trump will have made a two million dollars.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or shut all the universities down.

So, yeah.

Could go either way.

It could go either way.

Yeah.

The right word going.

We're along for the ride.

Uh, oh man, we made it almost, yeah, without talking politics.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, this was great.

Great conversation.

We wish you all.

Thank you so much.

Big fan.

Yeah, I appreciate it.

Yeah.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Yeah.

Really appreciate it.

And thank you so much for coming on, Brad.

Absolutely.

I want to end.

I brought gift.

Oh.

So, sort of gifts.

We didn't have these ready when you visited.

Nice.

But we've got a crater book with all the design development,

a bunch of sketches that weren't released.

So, and then we got more stickers that we already gave you.

I didn't have any more belts, unfortunately.

I was going to try to bring a belt.

I got a belt.

I already got a belt.

Did you?

And did you give me a belt?

Did we give you two?

I didn't give you a belt.

I have two bags for the belt, but I would love that.

Well, yeah, absolutely.

It's a really fun one.

Oh, that's so cool.

Okay, great.

There's your, there's your face.

No to future guests.

Yeah, that's right.

I like presents.

This is how you do it.

This is so cool.

All right.

Well, this is great.

Bradley, head of design,

100 Design North America.

Thanks so much for coming on.

Thank you so much.

Really appreciate it.

Good luck with XRT and everything else.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

How Hyundai Became a Design Powerhouse | Bradley Arnold, Head of Design

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