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Is Max Verstappen Still in the Title Fight? 👀🏆 | Unlapped
Is Max Verstappen Still in the Title Fight? 👀🏆 | Unlapped
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About this episode
The discussion centers on Max Verstappen's renewed competitiveness and Red Bull's car improvements, questioning if he's still a legitimate title contender despite a 69-point deficit. The hosts analyze McLaren's struggles, Oscar Piastri's rare mistakes, and Lando Norris' missed opportunities. They highlight Williams' Carlos Sainz's breakthrough podium and the team's progress under new leadership. Ferrari's ongoing operational issues and Mercedes' solid performance are also covered. The episode concludes with speculation on Christian Horner's future in F1 and the evolving dynamics among team principals, blending race analysis with behind-the-scenes insights.
Topics:
max verstappen performance
red bull car upgrades
mclaren struggles
oscar piastri mistakes
lando norris opportunities
williams progress
carlos sainz podium
ferrari operational issues
mercedes performance
christian horner future
Cars:
Oldsmobile Intrigue
Welcome back to Unlapped! On today's episode, ESPN's Nicole Briscoe and Laurence Edmondson break down all the action for a wild race weekend in Baku. Max Verstappen completed another grand slam in his racing career by qualifying on pole, finishing with the fastest lap time, and capping it all off with a dominant race win. Is McLaren starting to feel the pressure? Carlos Sainz claimed his first podium as a Williams driver, as the spaniard celebrated being back on the podium for the first time since last season. Plus, with Christian Horner officially leaving the Red Bull company, when will we see him back in Formula 1?
00:00-01:49 Intro and Welcome In
01:49-02:45 Biggest Takeaway from Baku
02:45-13:10 Max Verstappen still in the title fight?
13:10-18:30 McLaren starting to feel the pressure?
18:30-19:55 Stat of the week!
19:55-31:10 Carlos Sainz claims first podium with Williams
31:10-38:11 Other takeaways from Baku
38:11-46:40 Christian Horner officially leaves Red Bull company
46:40-47:38 Goodbye!
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Hello, hello. Welcome to another Unlapped, because it is another week.
Lawrence Edmondson is here. I'm Nicole Briscoe.
Last, my voice has been...
What's the word that I can say?
Not amazing all week, but like it's sort of better today.
I still feel like, but I feel like it's come around just in time for our weekly visit.
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Let's get the business out of the way to begin with.
Remember, if you're watching with your apples on the ESPN YouTube channel,
the ESPN F1 channel is where you can get our F1 content all season long,
all year round, 365 days a year, because that's how the calendar works.
Also, if you're watching or listening to us someplace else, great.
Awesome. Just like, subscribe, give us a five star review.
Just make sure that you're back every single week. How are you?
I'm pretty good. I wasn't in Baku. I wasn't in Monza.
So I'm actually slightly missing race tracks,
but I'm heading off to Singapore in a week's time, so I'll get my fill then.
But hey, it was still entertaining, even watching from the couch,
and you know, well behind the laptop screen for me still,
but still an entertaining weekend, I thought.
Was it hugely entertaining weekend?
Also, I'm noticing that with my right, so your left,
the little tiny bit of chipmunk cheek left over from the wisdom tooth
has been fully, it's been fully removed now.
Now you're like, Norma, how do you feel?
Yeah, I feel much better as well in that regard.
So yeah, I mean, I was struggling to speak last week,
because yeah, the wisdom tooth removal,
and then I'll have to take the lion's share this week,
if your voice gives out, but it's not sounding good.
I'll just go see myself out.
What was your biggest takeaway from the weekend that was Bako?
Because I feel like there are so many wild elements
to what we could be here for a while.
Well, I think the big one that a lot of people are focusing on on Sunday is,
okay, Red Bull actually might have a competitive car going forward.
There's still some big questions in my mind about that,
but two consecutive wins in a row,
and two very convincing consecutive wins in a row, is impressive.
Meanwhile, we saw how quickly things can unravel,
even for someone as cool, calm, and collected as Oscar Piastri.
I mean, I think we've spoken so many times in this podcast
about how that guy just gets results, no matter what.
Well, this weekend, in Bako, it all went wrong.
And so yeah, that was two things that actually
do slightly change a picture going into the final seven races,
maybe a little bit too little, too late for Red Bull,
but I'm sure we'll talk about that.
It feels like a little bit of like cracks in the armor from McLaren,
but also let's just go with Max,
because there were a couple of things that I thought,
you know, I say he could drive a shoebox.
So with his recent form, there was a large part of me that thought,
oh, this is just Max being Max.
But then if you throw Yuki's performance in from this weekend,
that was the thing that made me realize, wait a minute,
maybe this isn't just all Max,
maybe Red Bull is also heading sort of in the right direction.
Like, so what is it?
Is it Max? Is it the team? Is it a combination of both?
I think it's a combination of a few things.
I think some of it is definitely coming from Max,
because for the first time this season,
he's talking about how the car actually feels reasonably balanced.
And remember, if we go back to even Suzuka,
where he took that amazing pole position and the victory,
for other weekend, he was saying how the car just felt,
well, like a shoebox, as he so nicely put it.
But now it seems like they've unlocked something,
they found something.
It's not entirely clear whether this is purely set up driven,
although they definitely have settled on a set up the Max likes.
And it's not clear how much is coming from the floor upgrade
that was introduced in Monza.
But that's the kind of thing that could make a big difference
with the balance of the car and how it feels.
But the big question going forward is,
okay, you can do it on Monza and Baku,
where the wings are trimmed back.
We've seen throughout this season,
as we've built trends of where cars are quick
and where they aren't,
we've seen that the Red Bull has been slightly better behaved
when the wings are trimmed back.
But when the full downforce goes on,
they've really struggled to get that balance
working in the same way.
And also through longer duration corners.
So I think Budapest, where you've got this long sweeping corners,
that's where the car just starts to lose performance
because it can't be balanced in throughout the length of that corner.
And therefore, time is just ticking away,
even in Max Verstappen's hands when he's going through that corner.
So that's a big question going forward
because Singapore next race is high downforce.
But I think even if you,
even if they lose some of that performance,
it's still a step they've made
and Max still feels more comfortable.
And that has got McLaren worried even on Saturday night
when Andrea Stella was asked about
whether Max has become a threat for the title.
And this was before he cut the gap on Sunday.
He said, yes.
And he said, put it in capitals in your copy.
Yes, YES.
So McLaren are convinced.
But I think it is probably all a little bit too late
because there's still 69 points.
And I mean, we've been watching this for a while.
That's a lot.
But at this point last year,
that was essentially the gap between Lando and Max.
And we were looking at Max like, oh, wait, here's what he needs to do.
Here's what Lando could do.
So we've taken the situation that we were in last year
and essentially just reversed it.
The difference is, I think, the mindset.
Also, the difference is Max has won four championships.
McLaren has, the McLaren drivers put it that way, have not.
And I think there is a mental toughness.
It's difficult sometimes when you're trying to learn to win
as opposed to the situation where the McLaren drivers
have been in the last handful of years.
So I almost look at Max's title fight now
as being more legitimate than what maybe Lando's was a season ago.
Yeah, from a driver perspective, I agree.
If there's a driver who's going to get the maximum out of a car
for seven consecutive races.
Like the water, don't look past it.
Yeah, exactly.
With the pressure on, I think Max is the only driver probably on the grid
who can get the maximum out of the car for seven consecutive races.
However, the car is my concern there
because what we had last year was McLaren clearly with a much faster car,
clearly with the momentum behind them,
and Red Bull really, really struggling to get things together,
even in Max's hands.
Whereas the issues that McLaren faced in Baku,
okay, they probably weren't as fast as Max,
but they weren't that far off.
The issues were coming from elsewhere.
And while they may well still drop points
because issues come from the drivers,
I think when we get to Singapore, USA, Mexico, in those three races,
those are three races
why I would expect the McLaren to be the faster car again.
If it is, then if that gap gets bigger,
if it goes beyond 69 points over those three races,
forget it.
Not even Max Verstappen can turn that round.
Biba, hold on.
All I'm going to say is just for argument's sake,
he's 69 points back.
Verstappen's taken 35 points out of Piastre's lead in two races.
So 69 is, if you look at the last two races, 69 is nothing.
That's true.
That's true.
But it does rely on this guy that we were talking about earlier,
making more sases, you know, this metronomic Oscar Piastre.
Like there's a little bit where you see Baku and you think,
okay, that we could extrapolate that down the line.
But I actually think Oscar will bounce back from that.
I think he's got the mental strength to do so.
And then if you look at it another way,
to pitch the other side of the argument,
well, 69 points over seven races,
that's 10 points per race weekend.
Now if Max goes and wins every race, sure,
like, but Oscar would still have to finish third or worse
every race.
There's some sprints involved,
so it's not quite as clean as that.
But I just can't see Oscar thrown away that opportunity.
But hey, look, you know, this is F1 and the great thing is,
weird things do happen.
And when the pressure gets cranked up,
even stranger things happen.
And I guess that's the big unknown going into this final stage of the season
is the Oscar Piastre and Lando Norris.
Neither of them have really been in a title fight
where they've been chased down since they're in junior formulas,
at least they've not done it in F1.
So with the extra pressure on,
will we see more mistakes from Piastre and Norris?
But yeah, I just think the mountain is a little bit too high for this happen.
But hey, I'd love to be proved wrong if I am,
play this back at the end of the season
and I'll take it on the chin.
Let's just like enjoy it, honestly.
I mean, when the championship is close,
it's better for all of us because it's more enjoyable to watch.
Also, I'm here for the chaos because,
I mean, I always root for the chaos.
I'm always like, give me a race where there's rain.
Give me a race where there's like a tire situation.
Give me a race where there's strategy.
And that's what we had all weekend in Baku.
The crazy thing, admittedly, with my sports center hours,
this particular race weekend was really hard for me to watch live.
Like qualifying was at 4 a.m.
And I think I got done with work at 2 a.m.
I didn't work Saturday night,
but I feel like just a recycled trash from the raccoon panda
or like I just feel awful.
So like I didn't get up to watch the race
at seven o'clock in the morning on Sunday
when I was going to have to work until 2 2.30 in the morning on Sunday.
So you ought to give them for that.
You know, I think, yeah, like so I watched it all like afterwards
or, you know, via what you guys wrote.
I think you can go back and you can look at some of the results
and say, well, would that person have finished where they did,
had, you know, Piastri not made the mistake that he did.
Would that person have finished where they did if,
you know, Lando, I didn't have the slow pit stop.
And you can, if then, till the cows come home,
but what we ended up with was probably
one of the most entertaining race weekends on the whole.
Qualifying took what, 30 minutes longer than last year's race?
Yeah, probably did actually.
As I say, it's two hours of qualifying.
So doubled its usual window.
That's bananas.
There were six run flags just in qualifying.
A record of qualifying.
What was that?
That was a record as well for qualifying.
Right.
You had a very interesting lineup.
And then in the race, you had alternate strategy,
you know, the overcut from George Williams,
I'm sorry, from George, George Russell to get the Williams.
You had Williams on the pole, which how many times wait,
because my, what was your bold prediction?
I forget what it was.
We were like, what is the board?
I had Kimmy Antonelli winning a race,
which even in back, I didn't look that likely.
No, and I was like, Williams is going to win a race,
but when there's second and hanged out at the podium,
I'm like, wait, hold on, hold on, maybe it's not so wild.
Maybe it's not so crazy.
But I just, in terms of race weekends,
my biggest takeaway from that is like, yes,
that was hugely entertaining.
Even if Max gaps the field by an awful lot in the end,
there were just so many unknowns
and so many interesting things happening in the field
that I was like, just give me more of that.
I'll take more of that for the rest of the season.
Yeah, it was one of those races where at any point you thought
this could all just blow up with a safety car as well.
I mean, weird in the end that the only safety car
came from Oscar's mistake at the start.
But then throughout, yeah, you thought, well,
what if this happens?
What if that happens?
And that has to be involved in strategy.
And so there were a lot of guessing.
The one strange thing about it, actually,
was that overtaking was not easy.
We've seen in Baku before that as long as you get that X
out of turn 16, that final corner onto the 2km flat out,
not quite straight, but flat out section
across the finish line, then you have a chance
to overtake into turn 1.
That didn't really come about as much,
but that did create some tense situations.
And that is what allowed Carlos to do so well,
hold onto a position.
It's what allowed Liam Lawson to be so effective
throughout that race as there wasn't that easy to overtake.
But despite that, I still think it was a gripping race.
But I agree.
I mean, qualifying, you just had no idea.
And you know what, we're talking about what ifs
and all of that kind of stuff.
I think the biggest one from the weekend was Lando Norris,
who after Piastri had crashed in Q3,
was the first car back out on track.
And the track was still a little bit damp
and no cars had run over it.
So he had the worst track conditions
of all the drivers going out in Q3.
And it was almost like McLaren were being cautious there.
But in order for him to overcome that caution
and get a decent lap, then he had to push extra hard.
And that's where he made mistakes.
And so it was just this crazy situation,
crazy track conditions where anything could happen
throughout it.
And so yeah, but then the one thing that maybe
we shouldn't be surprised by.
So the guy who comes out on top
is the guy who always seems to get it right
no matter what Max Verstappen.
But I mean, great to see Max genuinely competitive again
because I really do.
It's a shame when he's held back by the car.
You know, he's not anymore a Balax with it.
When you look at McLaren and obviously one of the things
that we haven't yet sort of addressed was last weekend
in Vaku was the first weekend that they had the chance
to actually clinch the Constructors' Championship
for a multitude of reasons that did not happen.
And then their disastrous weekend for both the drivers.
How much of that is sometimes you just have a bad weekend?
And how much of that is then, because you mentioned them,
playing it safe and qualifying.
When you try to play Prevent, sometimes you make mistakes.
Sometimes you give up points.
So how much of that is McLaren trying to play it safe,
playing Prevent?
And then just getting championship jitters.
Yeah, I think there was a bit of that.
Certainly with Lando once, Oscar had crashed
and they had one car out.
They were very conservative with the way they ranked Q3 for Lando.
And that meant that he started further back.
But you can't really dress it up any other way.
The Piastris weekend was on him.
It was three errors throughout the weekend.
There was a crashing qualifying.
There was a jump start, which led to him
going to the back of the field into turn one.
And then there was the obvious mistake at turn five
that took him out of the race.
I don't think McLaren did anything wrong there.
That was all on Oscar.
Surprising.
And also, weird that he managed to get all of his errors
up to this point of the season out in one go.
The only other major one I can think of was Australia.
Maybe the mistake with the restart Silverstone
where he got the penalty.
But apart from that, he's just been so consistent.
And so it seemed like once one thing went wrong,
it all just unraveled.
And then, yeah, I do agree with you on Norris' weekend.
And even that pit stop, that not going right,
costing a potential opportunity to get two more places.
OK, that's only fifth place on a weekend.
When your title rivals in the wall,
you should be at least be on the podium
to drive in a McLaren.
But still fifth place would have been
an extra four points, I believe.
And therefore, that would have been
that little bit closer in the championship.
So yeah, I do think there was a bit of that,
especially with Lando, just like when the pressure's on,
when he needed to get it done,
it's just little errors crept in.
And then perhaps they went just too conservative
with running a Q3.
Who do you think was more disappointing at the end of the day?
And I'm going to tell you this.
I actually think it was Lando.
But I'm curious what you think.
I think Lando had the more disappointing weekend
because second week in a row, there was the big issue
for him was almost team related.
Putting him out there when they did in qualifying
wasn't putting him in the best situation.
The slow pit stop, again, didn't do anything to help him.
And this was an opportunity for him to make up ground
on the teammate who made a mistake.
Lando has made mistakes.
I'm not going to look at him and be like,
yeah, he's been perfect.
That's not true.
But the mistakes or the issues that he had this weekend
felt a little more like they were team related
and less him.
So this was the weekend where he could have made up
significant ground.
Yes, he still caught into the lead.
But he finished seventh.
He should have finished at least fifth, if not better.
So for me, I just think when this title fight is over,
and let's say Lando doesn't win it, and Oscar does,
there are a couple of key weekends
that he's going to look back on and be like, man,
that's the weekend that got away.
It feels like this last weekend in Baku was one of them.
Yeah, I think just because it did present that opportunity
to him, I agree.
And I mean, I tried to defend him a little bit there
with the timing of Q3.
And I do think that McLaren played that too conservatively.
But that's easy to say with the benefit of hindsight.
If he'd gone and got a clean lap,
then he probably would have been a little bit further up.
That would have reduced some issues in the race.
So I think he will look back at this.
And I wonder, however, I mean,
if Norris does go and win this championship,
then Piassari's going to look back at the back of weekend
and be like, well, that was the only big fat zero
on my first 17 races.
What happened there?
And then also, what we don't know at this stage is whether
Piassari does just bounce back straight away in Singapore.
I suspect he will.
But who knows, you know, like I said,
we haven't yet seen him in this position.
What if this leads to more errors?
What if it gets in his head?
But yeah, I think because of the way
the championship is set up at the moment,
this felt like such a big opportunity for Norris.
And that's why when they left on Sunday night,
I think Piassari probably looked at it and said,
okay, I messed up.
You know, that was all on me.
But hey, I kind of got lucky
that I only lost six points.
Whereas Norris is going to look at it and be like,
wow, that was a golden opportunity.
Even if he couldn't compete with Max,
you know, just to get 18 points out of Piassari
would have been huge for the championship.
So I gotta agree with you.
In terms of just pure disappointment, leaving Baku,
Norris is undoubtedly feeling more.
I mean, this was put to him as well.
And he said that actually you could look at that
across all of my races.
You know, every race I don't win, I didn't compete.
You know, I didn't go at my very best
and I didn't get the maximum out of it.
That's what he's going to say.
But yeah, it felt like he was telling himself that,
even as he said it, like trying to convince himself that,
even as he said it, I don't think that's
how anyone would have felt leaving Baku
after what happened to him that weekend.
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Okay, here's the staff.
Only two drivers in Formula One history
have stood on the podium from McLaren, Ferrari, and Williams.
Do you know the answer without it being in front of you?
I wouldn't have known this.
I may have figured it out.
I would have figured out the one that we're talking about.
Give me enough time.
I don't think I would have.
I wouldn't have gotten the older driver.
Sure.
Okay, so it's Elaine Perost and Science, Carlos Sons.
So we got his first podium for Williams.
James Vowles got his first quota as team principal for Williams.
And then here's the petty part
because everyone knows I'm here for the petty.
Not only did Science finish on the podium,
his replacement, the guy who replaced him,
finished P8 at Ferrari.
And he also finished ahead of the guy who replaced
the guy who replaced him at Ferrari.
Anyway, you got to feel good for Science.
Also worth noting, Science is only one of four drivers
ever to drive for all three teams,
which is kind of like,
if you're going to go through the list of teams
that you've driven for in terms of the history of the sport,
not bad, not bad.
It was definitely,
we've had a number of feel-good stories this year.
You know, like the Hulkenberg on podium, obviously,
even seeing Isaac Hajar on the podium
after the way his season started
and just how he has progressed as a rookie.
There have been a few moments with Kimi Antinelli
when Antinelli was on the podium.
Also when Antinelli got the sprint poll in Miami.
This was another one too
because it was not that long ago
that Science was saying,
look, fans, you're not going to see me fighting
for podiums this year.
You're not going to see me doing that.
But my goal is to take Williams in the right direction.
There have been times this season
where we have wondered, like,
what is wrong with Carlos Sainz?
Like his form has not been,
I think, what we expected to.
Alex Alban has out-pointed him,
what, by double.
But this was sort of,
it felt like a breakthrough moment
for a lot of reasons,
not just for Science,
but for the team as well.
What do you think?
Yeah, I think it kind of set
the record straight slightly on
Science's season at Williams
because prior to Baku,
he was on 16 points
and Albon was on 70.
And Williams are still,
and probably will be now
thanks to this podium,
their fifth in the Constructors' Championship.
But you look to their points
and you're like,
you know, Science contributing
as much as he should be.
Honestly, the answer has been no.
There have been where
he's made mistakes or had issues
where you're like,
well, that should have been the podium.
That should have been,
it shouldn't have been as hard as it was.
And the easy...
At double points, at double podium.
Yeah, exactly.
And then the easy answer
to that would have been,
well, you know,
he's settling into Williams
and it's taking time.
And there is some truth to that.
But actually, if you look at his performance,
his just qualifying performance
versus Albon,
the margin is tiny.
I think it's the third smallest margin
in between teammates up to Baku.
And so it just didn't really fit.
And so I'm glad that
he finally had this weekend.
And you know,
these weekends don't come around very often
if you're driving in a midfield car.
And that's what science alluded to
when he left Ferrari and saying,
well, might not see the podium again
for a little while.
But when they do come around,
you need someone who's in the zone
able to get a performance out of the car
and is calm and collected.
And science had all of that this weekend.
And I think, you know,
there's been times
when one of those things has left him
outside the points of various races this year.
But all three were there when it mattered.
And he got that podium.
And I think, you know,
it is really important
for him going forward.
Because in Albon,
I think he's come up against a teammate
that, you know, a few people were wondering
whether Albon would be found out
going up against science.
And, you know,
if you just looked at the points
and not at the actual lap times,
then you might have thought it was the other way.
But for science to prove that, you know,
he's still got it
and he can still get a podium
when it matters,
that was very important.
So, yeah, I think it's a really important result for him.
And just the way he was talking about it afterwards,
there was that real sense of, you know,
I'm just glad I could show you guys
that actually things are going pretty well.
And he talked to Karen Chandock
afterwards on Sky Sports
and said how he sees it
as almost like his life goal now
is to help Williams move forward
and really talking about the long term
with Williams, which he has before.
But it's never really sounded quite as convincing.
And obviously, as this season went on,
the results weren't coming together.
You were like, well,
maybe they're not quite the match
that they should be.
But I think science has felt that throughout
and you know, he's just wanted to prove it.
And well, now he has.
But I think that's also the sort of this
the story arc for Williams.
There were some terribly,
there have been some terribly lean years
because that their last podium was technically 2021.
But we know the weirdness around that one
with George Wastel.
So like their last legit podium
would have been what, 2017?
17 in Baku with Lance Stroll.
Oh, yeah, I read that.
Right, exactly.
About this now, yeah.
Well, like some legitimate weirdness there,
some very, very lean years.
And if you look at the story arc
that Williams has sort of put themselves on
with the changes at team principle,
the changes within the team
and the idea that next year
is the year they're fighting for wins
and legitimately fighting to be
in the top four of the constructors.
It's starting to go in the right direction.
They have 101 points this season,
which you're like, oh, look at the top four
in the championship.
Yeah, that's not as much.
However, that's their most since 138 in 2016.
There are still seven races to go.
They could easily surpass that.
But if you take a look at the points
that they've scored in the last couple of years,
where they are now is like
outpointing the last three years combined.
So the idea that we know that the rules
are changing next year.
The regulations are changing in 2026.
Mercedes, the engine supplier,
looks like they could be the ones.
And it gives us, I think, reason to believe.
Carlos said, I'm signing with Williams
to take this team in the right direction.
If you look at it, even without the regulation changes,
it's all making sense.
It's all showing that it's maybe not that crazy.
He's not going to spend his life
in the back of the field.
Yeah, I feel like the gains they've made already
is just getting things organized,
the low hanging fruit,
the kind of stuff that probably should have been done.
James Valls has talked about it.
Some of it should have been done several decades ago.
And it's just getting everything organized
to bring it up to the modern standards
of a top tier racing team,
which of course, James Valls knows so well
from his time winning titles with Mercedes.
And so that just getting everything in the right place,
making sure that the car is built with the right methods,
because it started last season way over way.
They actually felt they missed out
on quite a few points early last season
because the car was just too heavy.
And that's lap time right there
if you can get that weight out of the car.
So they started this season just with
what was a well-developed, well-built car,
but nothing special.
Because right from Valls's first moment,
stepping into the Williams Factory in Grove in 2023,
he said the target is 2026.
And he did something very important,
which is get everyone involved,
so all the investors in the team,
all of the board on the team,
on board with his plan of making 2026 the target.
And that's what it's all been working towards.
So this year, there's been very few,
if any, proper upgrades to that car.
Because right from the moment it went out at the launch
at Silverstone, I was there and then went testing,
that was it.
That's the car that's car we're going to race with.
We hope it's competitive,
but it may well go backwards throughout the season
as other teams outdevelop us,
because all of their focus was going into 2026 and has been.
And so that's what makes it exciting.
Now, of course, a new set of regulations,
even with all the best will in the world
and all the wind tunnel time and cost cap
going into a set of regulations,
you can still get it wrong.
But I think what gives everyone hope of Williams right now
is that everything that Valls has said
would happen along the way has happened,
and then a little bit more.
So 2026 remains still the biggest challenge I'm going to face,
but you're right.
There's just, from what's happened so far,
there's this belief actually that,
well, maybe this could happen.
And maybe when science had that choice between realistically,
Sauber, which is becoming Audi,
Alpine and Williams,
because both Red Bull and Mercedes kind of gave him the cold shoulder,
it's starting to look more and more like he made the right choice.
But it's easy to say that after a podium, isn't it?
Things change in a very quick amount of time in Form 1,
but it is starting to look like that was the right decision.
Things change quickly, unless you're Ferrari.
Yes.
I mean, I feel like we've beaten this topic into the ground.
It's like beating the dead horse at this point.
It was just another uninspired weekend,
another race where you just expect more.
And I realize I'm expecting more because it's Ferrari.
And yes, I'm expecting more because it's Lewis Hamilton,
but I don't even know what to say anymore.
Other than they're there, the cars are on the track.
Do we just not pay attention to him anymore?
And this is about 2026, I'm sort of over it.
Yeah, it was very disappointing.
It had lots of parallels to the McLaren weekend in terms of underperformance.
Leclerc put it in the wall in Q3.
Lewis didn't even make Q3 because the timing of the way Q2 played out,
he basically stayed on the same tyres for too long
and then didn't have what he needed
when it came to setting the lap at the end of the session.
These are operational errors.
The car probably wasn't or isn't as quick
as it should be, no doubt about that.
But these are all operational errors.
And yeah, it is slightly worrying that even with the car being where it is
and the problems they've had from the start of the year
about not being able to run out at the right height
that it was really designed for
and these baked-in issues that they were probably never going to get out
of considering the regulation change next year,
cost cap, limited wind tunnel time,
they were probably stuck in this throughout.
It's just they're not maximizing what they've got either.
And I think what hurts most of all if you're a Ferrari fan
is that you go into each weekend and in practice,
they actually look pretty good.
In Monza, they look quite quick in practice.
In Baku, they look quite quick in practice
and then it all just falls apart when it matters.
I think that's not entirely operational errors.
That's also because they seem to run the car either slightly lighter
or with a higher engine mode in practice than their rivals.
But even so, it just feels like it's just not coming together.
And weirdly, Lewis, who these are not the results
that Lewis is ever going to remember
when he's sitting down the line,
retired and talking to his grandchildren
about his time racing in Formula One.
He's not going to remember these eighth places with Ferrari.
But actually, I'd say the last few races,
he's the only person at Ferrari who seems to be
kind of making a little bit of progress
because he's just got a little bit closer to the clerk.
So if you are looking for any kind of green shoots of recovery
and optimism for 2026, if you're a Lewis Hamilton fan,
you might be able to take a bit out of that.
But undoubtedly, the wider issues here
is that the car isn't quick enough
and even when it looks reasonably fast,
they're making little errors in the way as well.
The best part of the weekend, too, was watching the road trip.
The road trip that Leclerc signs had to do.
Like, that was funny.
If you've missed it, Leclerc posted it on his Instagram
and he's like just to add to a terrible weekend.
And he's like in the car and he pans the camera.
They're like in some van in the middle of Italy
because they were diverted.
They couldn't land in Nice.
So they were just driving home from the middle of Italy to Monaco.
And we all do it.
When the GPS says it's going to take you an hour and a half,
you're like, really?
Is it going to take me an hour and a half?
No.
It's going to take me an hour 25.
They were trying to shape a half hour off of it.
But one relatable, two funny, liked it.
What are other takeaways from the weekend?
I mean, Liam Lawson had his best weekend.
Yuki Sonoda also put together a decent weekend.
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What am I missing?
No, I think we should dwell on those a little bit
because that all feeds into what Red Bull are doing
with their drivers next year.
And one of the big questions is would Yuki be allowed to stay?
Would he be part of the plans going forward?
And it sounds very much like he has until Austin, Mexico,
time to impress the team.
Now that's the race that's just happened in Baku, Singapore
and then we're in Austin, Mexico.
So he has a very limited amount of time
but did appear to make a minor breakthrough as well.
Like you said at the top of the show, Max was very quick
but Yuki actually looks a little bit quicker as well.
So I'm hopeful maybe for Yuki's sake
that Singapore can go well
and then he is in a position where he's impressing the team
down the line to be able to stay within the fold
because I still don't think...
I think it'd be such a shame for his career to end at the end of this year
but then another driver with pressure on him
especially if Yuki starts doing well was Liam.
And Liam had a fantastic race, fantastic qualifying as well.
Qualifying P3 behind Science
and then really I think given where that car is
had a fantastic race trying to battle with the Mercedes
but then ultimately keep Ferraris and McLaren behind him
is impressive.
So I think those are very noteworthy performances
and then the guy that we keep talking about Isaac Hajjar
still kept it in the points.
He was very upset with his qualifying lap
because he had caught caught by a gust of wind
coming out of turn 16 I think
and it all kind of just got away from him
at the last proper corner of the track
but that guy keeps getting results, getting the points.
It still can submit.
Yeah, I mean the only thing that...
The one thing that people said about Hajjar
when he first came in was watch our guys temper.
He can be a little bit kind of wild and erratic
sometimes over team radio
and I think he's actually done a fairly good job
of controlling that
but if you go back and watch his...
This is how much it meant to him though.
If you go back and watch his qualifying lap
as he came out of turn 16
he was slamming the steering wheel with his fist
because he knew he'd missed his opportunity
just for a mistake there
of really probably qualifying up where Lawson was
and then maybe get another amazing result.
So I think that's something that
he still needs to work on slightly
is just that calmness and being collected
at the right times
but I think it also shows you how much it means to him
and because he's able to be in that position
to be that close to those results
that shows you how quick he is.
But let's be honest you're slamming your wrist
or your fist on the wheel at the end of qualifying lap
you've already thrown it away
you're not throwing it into the wall
because you're doing that
you're just expressing your emotions.
I kind of don't have a problem with that
because he knew it
that's him sort of living in the moment
and expressing how much it means to him
but also he's not throwing anything away
it's not like he made a mistake
and the race slams his fist on the steering wheel
and then loses six positions
and he's not also he's not abusing
or berating his team on the radio
I don't really have a problem with that at all
and I also think it's interesting
to look at Liam Lawson
and yeah he didn't he had a shot at the podium
and it didn't turn out that way
but there is something to be said
about when a driver starts to unlock
that new level of confidence
and I'm not saying that the bar is set
incredibly high for Liam Lawson
but considering where he was
after two weeks of the season
to then just have the rug
absolutely pulled out from under him
to be sent back down to the
quote-unquote junior team
and to for the most the majority of the season
he's been on the struggle bus
to have a weekend like this
even if you look at it and say the yeah but
somebody else in front of him made a mistake
yeah but Lawson didn't
yeah but Lawson still put it together
I think these weekends are sometimes telling
and they're an opportunity to grow on confidence
and to sort of maybe set sail in the right direction
how will he be able to build on this
even if he goes into Singapore
and doesn't have the best situation
but if he can still put it together
and have a decent weekend
this is what you need to see from him
starting to head in the right direction
and being able to handle
sort of the ebbs and the flows of the sport
but not letting it derail you
okay so you had your good weekend
what can you do with it now
yeah I think it's a combination of the progress
that he has made over the last few races
and a bit like science
just being able to have that result
you can point to at the end of it
is important
especially when it comes to decisions about drivers
down the line
but I think he's absolutely on the right path
and he's been a little bit overshadowed
by just how brilliant had you all been
you know this season
and I guess how much of a surprise that's been as well
but you're right
you know if you're going to look at Lawson
and say what can this guy give us
and what's his potential long term
to come back from the horror show
that was being dropped by Red Bull after two races
and find the performance in the car again
is crucial
and so he's done that very well
do you have a takeaway
which I'll put out there from Baku
was Mercedes getting a second place and fourth place
so George Russell
I think again just really performing on a high level
I think behind Matt right now
not for nothing
yeah yeah yeah I mean
I had what sounded like a pretty awful
road cold
yeah not too dissimilar to yours Nicole
I think I think no I think it was probably different
but he sounded
yeah he was rough
he was rough in a bad way
so you know to turn around and be able to
get a second place was impressive
and to Nelly of course
after all the comments made by him
by Toto Wolf coming out of Monza
to be able to put a decent weekend together
was very important as well
but they also moved ahead of Ferrari
in the Constructors Championship for second place
not that anyone really cares about second place
right in the Constructors Championship
but there is money attached to it
and I think there's an element of pride
between those you know teams behind McLaren
we all know McLaren's won the Constructors
will do very very soon
but yeah it's a
it's kind of interesting to see that battle play out
and whether Mercedes can keep that going
it was kind of Mercedes conditions a bit cooler
and Baku kind of slightly weird track layout
low downforce like it was in Canada
when they were quick as well
but yeah interesting that
there they managed to capitalise
and get a decent result out of it
and while Ferrari really did struggle
so yeah they might have their eyes on second place
by the end of this year
I think the only other news that has come out of this week
which is interesting because
well I mean we don't have a race this weekend
Christian Horner
I'm trying to wrap my head around the monopoly money here
100 million pound payout from Red Bull
to officially leave the company
obviously he's not been team principal for the latter half of the season
but he was still within the company fold
that is no longer the case
because he's a bajillionaire
and now he is even more of a bajillionaire
but the interesting part about all of that is
he has been paid they've agreed to the settlement
to remove him from the company
that now means that he
Horner can return to the sport as early as the spring of 2026
so let's read between the lines
let's read the tea leaves
what do we know now
well yes I mean he had a contract with Red Bull through to 2030
so once Red Bull had decided that
they didn't want them as team principal anymore
which was obviously earlier this year
they then had to negotiate this payout
and there's differing figures
I mean they're all monopoly money
but some people are suggesting it's more like 60 million dollars
the figure we got was a hundred million dollars
I mean
is that dollars or pounds?
that's still a huge amount
so
is it dollars or pounds?
dollars
so those figures are in dollars
so
yeah the figure we had was a hundred million dollars
so you know that's what sources told us
so that's significant
you know that that is huge
but then he did have all these years of his contract
that he's obviously not going to get paid for
so that's what you know
the negotiations were around
but then you're right
the other key factor was
you know having cut that contract
when can you go working again in Formula One
and it does sound
from various reports
and people close to him
that he does want to get back into Formula One
and it looks like
spring next year
he's going to be completely able to
to join any project he wants
but I think with Horner
he'll want to go in on the next step up
so I don't think he's
happy just going back in
as a team principal
maybe if it was someone like Ferrari
he'd do it
but of course Ferrari had just signed a new contract
with Fred Visser
so I think he'd have to go in as a
as a shareholder
and as part of a wider project
that's what Toto Wolfe is at Mercedes for example
Toto owns 33.3% of the Mercedes Formula One team
and I think that's always irked Horner slightly
when they were the two great rivals in Formula One
they had the same role kind of
but Toto had financial skin in the game as well
so I think that's the next step for Horner
and then if you look at
the opportunities then
the only one that could really come about
is probably Alpine
if the Renault group decide to sell Alpine
and consortium of bidders from somewhere come in
and they put Horner in that role
potentially as an investor
or potentially with shares
you know as part of his payment for coming in
but you know these things aren't unheard of
Adrian Newey once he left Red Bull
when he went to Aston Martin
that was with a minority shareholding
in the Formula One team
so I think that's probably what Horner has on his mind
What about Cadillac?
It's a Cadillac of basic command said
that's not happening
so I would be very surprised
also for Christian that would be a big project
because you know you're coming in
right at the back of the grid
Graham Loudon has been there building that team up
I just don't really see how Christian would fit into that
fold for a number of reasons
so yeah I honestly think like the Alpine rumours
are the strongest
but a few things still need to come together
if that's happened
the question then is if that doesn't come again
come together
does Christian want to find another way in
is there another way into a form for him
you know how else could he be a part of it
so it will be interesting what happens
over the next year or so
but from what people are saying
it does sound like
he's keen to get back involved in some form
I did enjoy what Toda Wolf said
about how he misses his rival
and it made me think a little bit
you know obviously Drive to Survive
has been such a massive part
in the growth and sort of fan development
of this sport
and part of that has been the
you know the
the back and forth between the team
principals
and learning your personalities a little bit
and the drama the show
even if it is at times
mildly manufactured
the idea kind of popped into my mind of
you know we don't have Gunther Steiner anymore
in that world
and it's the team principal group is
it's kind of
you know not it's kind of
I don't want to say it's boring
but it's it's not as entertaining
as it once was
if there's really need for him
is there like a legit need
like it's formerly the one better
if Christian Horner is in the mix
well you know I
I think it I think it is better
when you have those big characters
running the teams
but there's been a real trend
towards engineers stepping up
into these team principal roles
and you know not to say all engineers
are boring
but they do look at problems in a
different way
and they're they're not as adversarial
in in the way they go about
doing their business
so you know just guys like Laura
Mekki's you know he's not
he's not going to go out and kind of like
put quotes in the media
just to try and upset Toto
just to try and get a
you know something back around from Toto
and so now we're kind of
yeah we have a situation
where it's a lot of engineers
heading up teams
you still got Zach Brown
McLaren who's not afraid to speak
his mind
and then you've got Toto Mercedes
but those are CEO roles as well
so I wonder whether if
Christian does come back
it's with a team in a CEO role
and it'll be interesting
which way the sport goes
because for years it was really
important to have somebody
who could hold their own in arguments
and put forward their team's position
because that was the way the sport was run
when Bernie Eccleston was run it
he used to pitch everybody
against everybody else
the way Liberty run the sport
now you know with Stefano Domenicali
as the boss
it's a much more
friendly approach
it's like how can we build this
together how can we grow together
and actually for the health of the sport
it's been far better
you know
for one is a much healthier space
than it ever was
when everyone was
going behind each other's backs
but it does take away some of the
entertainment value
but I think it also does take away
the need to have someone like Christian
if you're looking at it
from a team perspective
to have someone like Christian
fighting your corner
if so much of it is agreed upon
and everyone's in it together
and but from a journalist point of view
and from a storytelling point of view
and from a private point of view
I could not agree with you more
like guys like Christian are essential
and I think you know I think that is important for the
for the health of the sport going forward as well
you know you want to turn on your TV
and you want to hear opinions
when when people speak out
you know you want to hear
team bosses
get angry when things happen on track
2021 would not have been anywhere near as entertaining
it would still have been entertaining
but it wouldn't have been as entertaining
without Total Wolf and Christian Horner
as the two team bosses there
and then Paul Michael Massey
I don't know if I should say that
but Paul Michael Massey
in the middle of the FIA
trying to you know mediate between the two at times
he did create his own drama
he did create his own drama in the end
and but again
someone who wanted to be
out the center of it all
wanted to have a kind of media presence
Michael did want that
and kind of went out of his way
and then probably went
well definitely stepped over the line in Abu Dhabi
you know but that
those kind of storylines do
do create intrigue
they do create interest
they do
make this sport fantastic
so hopefully we won't lose too much of it
and from that perspective
I really do hope that we see Christian
back in Formula One
at some point next year
I'll talk to you next week
before you travel
look forward to it
wait where's
Nate's at a wedding this weekend right
is it a two
Nate's at a wedding right now
yeah
let's go
and he may come back
to the next podcast
so we may never see him again
it's hard to tell a name
it's hard to find him
like throw a dart
my kids are texting me
from the other room
because they're off of school today
so we're just going to call this now
we can't leave them running around the house
completely alone at this point
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or listening
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