Is The New Land Cruiser A Dud? | Ep. 325

[SPEAKER_00]: is the new Toyota Land Cruiser a dud.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what we're talking about on this episode of the TFL Car Chat TFL Offroad 4 by Chat.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to work on the name of our new Offroad podcast a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what's in the thumbnail?

[SPEAKER_00]: Studder a dud?

[SPEAKER_00]: Studder or dud?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's great.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're thinking like a YouTuber now.

[SPEAKER_00]: because this is one of the more controversial cars of the past couple of years.

[SPEAKER_00]: They made it smaller, they made it more affordable and into days podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to do a full walk around, then we're going to get it out into the dirt, and then later we're going to go ahead and do the studio and talk about some other topics.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's also a video Tommy, so if you're listening to this, enjoy and if you're watching and you'll get to see us take the new Land Cruiser into Andre's pit.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now let's talk about this, two of something smart Tommy, I think at least, and that is, it took a very expensive vehicle and made it less expensive, and that's very unusual.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well that's what half of the community thinks.

[SPEAKER_00]: The other half of the community thinks that they took an iconic nameplate and cheap in debt.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what they did with this new land cruiser is in the U.S., they took the land cruiser name and they applied it to what in Australia would be called a Prado.

[SPEAKER_00]: So historically there's been two lineages of Land Cruiser, the full blow Land Cruiser, the 100 series, the 200 series, the 300 series, and then there's the Prado edition, which is kind of a lighter-duty Land Cruiser, more affordable, the 115 and the 250.

[SPEAKER_00]: So technically, over-Broad, over-Broad.

[SPEAKER_00]: Take the overseas, this is being known as a Prado.

[SPEAKER_00]: Here, it's just called the full-size Land Cruiser, but in my mind, that's not such a bad thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, because let's face it now.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've owned the 80 series.

[SPEAKER_03]: We now have a broken 100 series.

[SPEAKER_03]: We've owned the 200 series.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And the problem with the 200 series, which is the last one before this one, is it just got too big and really poorly in heavy.

[SPEAKER_03]: We actually lifted it.

[SPEAKER_03]: We put an old man, Emo.

[SPEAKER_03]: We try to create our own TRD Pro Land Cruiser.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I did not like wheeling a tummy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well the problem with the 200 series is it weighed something like 700 plus pounds more than this new one.

[SPEAKER_00]: So even though the mentionally they're not actually that different when you get it out on the trail, my biggest issue with the 200s, they feel very ponderous.

[SPEAKER_00]: Keep in mind that weight is the enemy of everything both on and off-road and trying to do a rocky climb in a 200 series can get kind of hairy where it shouldn't be because there's so much weight dragging you down.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and you think that with the fact that this being a hybrid, and it has a pretty large battery actually, that it would be heavier, but because they went from an 8 cylinder to a little force cylinder turbo, they did actually make a light.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, if you still want that, let's call it traditional anchourouser, you can go and buy it at your local Lexus dealership Tommy.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the LX, as it has always been, is a 300 series Land Cruiser, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: They had the 80 and the 100 and the 200 and now, the 300 series is the LX, and you can even get an over-trail version of the LX with a front-it-roll locking diff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a great point.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's triple lock, but it's very luxurious.

[SPEAKER_03]: And let's say that the last herded edition 200 was selling for just under $100,000.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now if you wanna go to the LX, you're gonna go at about 120.

[SPEAKER_03]: or more depending on you know how you spec it out because you can't get one with those giant like airline private airline seats in the back you know the right the one that is super effective packet and I have wheeled that but there this is problem where when something becomes too luxurious too nice you just don't want to wheel it it's like wheeling a range over autobiography you just feel like it doesn't naturally belong anywhere where there's no pavement.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you got to wait 30, 40 years when that thing is only $98,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can go take it on the trail, you know what I'm saying?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to talk about the horsepower?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so what I've done is really pissed off a lot of people.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they went from the legendary 5, 7, V8.

[SPEAKER_00]: to a four cylinder forced inducted engine with a hybrid system.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now the big news on this is not the horsepower, it's the torque, 465 pound feet of torque.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's made it to an eight-speed automatic with the series of electric motors because it is a hybrid system, but I really think that [SPEAKER_00]: This was a bold move for Toyota because they took a community that was devoted here in the U.S. at least to be at the two U.S. EV-8 or the larger displacement V-8.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then they went down-sized at Grailian at electrification, which is not what a lot of the purest wanted.

[SPEAKER_03]: I also were using the 0W20 that really low.

[SPEAKER_03]: This got to be a good one.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, to give you as much fuel economy as possible.

[SPEAKER_03]: People are really weirded out by that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true, I mean, I think there's something you know, time moves on, right?

[SPEAKER_03]: People were also at one point, I'm sure we were to it out by gasoline when they went from steam powered standlies, you know, the old fashioned way, let's light a fire underneath it to, you know, modern internal combustion to now much more modern internal combustion.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think ultimately, if you look at the sales data, the decisions they have made have been the correct one, because if you look at 200 series sales from 0708 through 19, I think 21, maybe was the last year.

[SPEAKER_00]: They were selling like three to 5,000 years a year in the US.

[SPEAKER_00]: In the first couple years, this has been on sale.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think sales last year were 55,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, huge huge sales numbers.

[SPEAKER_03]: You still can't get them.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you wanted to go and try to buy one, at least here in Colorado, [SPEAKER_03]: you would have a hard time, you could try to get an allocation for it, but actually having them on the lot is not something that happens.

[SPEAKER_03]: Our friend Alan just bought one, and he wanted a very specific one.

[SPEAKER_03]: He actually wanted this heritage blue with the white roof and then the job interior.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this is a very funny dealer story, so he drove all the way up to Billings Montana.

[SPEAKER_03]: And apparently they said that they had the speck, and it turned out that the interior was not that job out brown, but it was black.

[SPEAKER_03]: I guess they misunderstood him, Tommy.

[SPEAKER_03]: And by that point they got you in buildings and you're kind of screwed, so end up buying it.

[SPEAKER_03]: But this just seems like some typical dealer.

[SPEAKER_03]: shenanigans right where they've got something that is very sought after and so they take advantage of it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, you like the round lights or these square lights better.

[SPEAKER_00]: So this one being, you know, the Land Cruiser spec has got the square lights with the three pods.

[SPEAKER_00]: The 1958 still's around light.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wish that Toyota would open up that configurability.

[SPEAKER_00]: of allowing the round life on the top trims.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know that they want to kind of differentiate the two with the visuals, but I really do wish you could get this color this spec with the round life because the problem with the 1958 is they lock you out of the good colors.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like if I want heritage blue, I can't get it on the base side.

[SPEAKER_03]: I want to do that.

[SPEAKER_03]: They lock you out of the good color.

[SPEAKER_00]: because all of them are like the tan, you don't like the hearing a beige?

[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't like the mustard yellow either.

[SPEAKER_03]: I do kind of like there's a meteor grape which is okay but the colors are so like drab and boring that really this blue one is the only one that is at all poppy especially for doing videos.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now this one is stickers at $70,000 so it's not actually as expensive as you can get them so the [SPEAKER_03]: 1958 starts at I think like 57 now and the common ones in the dealerships are at least 75 so at $70,000 this is expensive but you can't get a more expensive and at one of the reasons it's not completely gutted I mean not completely [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, as it doesn't have the thing that I wish it kind of had, it doesn't have the Discluctible sway bar, but I think I was just reading yeah, it's standard for 26 Discluctible sway bar.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I just heard that and I think the price now is essentially 60k for base I got a double check-up 75 plus [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, it's an expensive vehicle, but it's not 85 like the L old one, but, um, I mean, look, it's an interesting discussion because when you start speculating about like this one, you bring in the sister vehicle to this, which is the Lexus GX, because for 70 and change, you are in the Lexus territory.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but you can't give a GX either, so you can't give a little anchors and you can't give a GX.

[SPEAKER_03]: Because of availability.

[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.

[SPEAKER_03]: If you could, though, [SPEAKER_03]: in the GX right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then over trail is probably more like 80.

[SPEAKER_00]: Depends on how you speck them.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think you can get a base over trail and then there's the over trail plus, which is like the Lux one.

[SPEAKER_00]: But would you if you had the two side by side, Land Cruiser maybe 5 to 10 KLS expensive?

[SPEAKER_00]: Would you get the Toyota or the Lexus?

[SPEAKER_03]: I would definitely get the Toyota because I've always been a fan of the Land Cruiser name.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it has a very strong heritage.

[SPEAKER_03]: I also, when we went on the GX program, I found that they all ride pretty poorly actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: Except the overtry out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Except the overtry out, but out of all of them, that's the one that actually rides the best.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that one is also become, let's face it, the kind of the, the model crawler.

[SPEAKER_03]: This, I think, at least here in Colorado, gets built out, people still, you know, lift them, [SPEAKER_03]: Winches on them, they make them actually land cruiseries, traditionally, whereas they've never seen a built out GX.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's always a one that like, you know, expensive schools have running around when kids are getting picked up.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you can do the same stuff to GX, but people don't do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But you could, nothing's stopping you.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no law.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: What's stopping you is you're already 80 into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the thing that a lot of folks like about the GX is instead of having the four cylinder turbo hybrid, you get the three four twin turbo V6.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which, honestly, is pro and con, especially because many of those engines have been recalled famously in tundra, isn't that kind of thing?

[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there may be a pro and con of that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the downside of this engine is there's two downsides.

[SPEAKER_03]: The two biggest, I think, Achilles heels are, it only gets relatively crappy fuel economy.

[SPEAKER_03]: So, we're getting about 22 MPG with a hybrid system, which isn't grand.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but 200 series, which is essentially the same size would do, like, for remembering that God 42.

[SPEAKER_00]: But a maverick is made out of tin foil and a little bit to bubble gum.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying I'm just saying 21 is okay.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's one of those two of the hybrid systems that's designed more for power than it is for fuel economy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, but once again.

[SPEAKER_03]: No prehistami.

[SPEAKER_00]: When you consider the weight difference between this and the 200, I mean, that thing was getting like 13, 14.

[SPEAKER_03]: So sure what that was, yeah, that was pretty horrible.

[SPEAKER_00]: The biggest issue is not the fuel economy for me.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's the fuel tank.

[SPEAKER_00]: The tank is tiny.

[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have a lot of range, so that's a bummer.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then the other thing we should talk about is you on upmarket, but how about going downmarket?

[SPEAKER_03]: As you know, we also had the four on our TRD Pro, which was also very expensive.

[SPEAKER_03]: That was, I think, 50, of course.

[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, we had a tiered offer out.

[SPEAKER_03]: Tiered, you know what, but it was like 50, 58, 57.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think we paid for it.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I got to tell you, Tommy, this feels a lot more spacious.

[SPEAKER_03]: It feels a lot more airy.

[SPEAKER_03]: It feels a lot more roomy.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it actually has a much better ride.

[SPEAKER_03]: T.R.D.

[SPEAKER_03]: off-road foreigner is a ride was pretty stiff and then inside the materials here they call you want to show them this beautiful job on interior I think it's called Java this this chocolate colored interior is absolutely stunning with this heritage blue and then the white roof I just love the color combination I throw some like white wheels on this thing and you'd have the perfect perfect off-roader [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think for me, the reason I personally like Land Cruiser more than 400 is actually the driving position and visibility.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I always feel that in the new, the new forerunners, they're kind of like driving in a cave.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's got a really high belt line and relatively small windows, but in the Land Cruiser you get, I hate to bring in my brand, but the Land Rover driving experience where you sit super tall in the vehicle, you get a really low belt line, [SPEAKER_00]: big, straight upright windows.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it feels a lot more airy and, look, being in an open cockpit is always a better experience than in my opinion, being in a Camaro.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that form is more Camaro like the Land Cruiser.

[SPEAKER_00]: This thing has just got a great view of the world.

[SPEAKER_03]: So I have to say I've completely flipped flopped on this.

[SPEAKER_03]: When we first took this to Moe Ab, which was a year ago, now maybe longer, we had this mustard yellow one, remember?

[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it was out of the press fleet and I believed it belonged to one of the other, [SPEAKER_03]: kind of magazine journalist and that person had just taken it through the ringer and the thing was, thing was used and abused and because of that I really did not like it.

[SPEAKER_03]: I just felt it didn't hold up well, I felt it didn't ride well, I felt like there were issues with it which there were and now that this is our second time in this press loan vehicle, I've really fallen in love with this and I'm a sucker for colors so maybe it's the blue but [SPEAKER_03]: I just think compared to the four-runner and even compared to the GX, I think this is a sweet spot in the Toyota Slash Lexus lineup.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, if I hit all the money in the world, I get an LX because it's triple locked, but you know, it's too nice to like beat up right away.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like you said, wait five years, ten years when the thing is, when it depreciates five six dollars, then you can beat it up.

[SPEAKER_03]: Don't tell me, let me ask you this.

[SPEAKER_03]: Like we were looking for, we're doing a series where we're building out, hopefully a cheap [SPEAKER_00]: yeah it's going really well it's going really well yeah it's very it's very cheap so far you just broke the differential it's getting cheaper I mean it was a $12,000 because now it's an $8,000 like you could have bought a GX of the same generation [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right, but we didn't.

[SPEAKER_03]: We bought the Land Cruiser because there's something iconic about the Land Cruiser and the GX just doesn't have that like Fizz to it that the Land Cruiser has.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, underneath they're the same vehicle basically not this generation that previous generation they're different they're pretty super different really so different I mean when you consider the proddle of that era well apparently very different platform apparently not and apparently not because the GX front diff also fits the Land Cruiser [SPEAKER_00]: So that aid entering opinion was undersized on the 100 series for sure, and that's ultimately what we destroyed.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: From, so you can take the GX.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's aspects that are similar, but the platform is so different.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you can sound like it's like the difference between a Range Rover and a Land Rover and the Land Cruiser.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not.

[SPEAKER_00]: The difference between a Discovery and a Disco Sport is the difference.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're really different, but let's not fight about that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get in the thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go take it into the pit and see what it's like off road.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's go.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what you're getting there kind of fundamentally is the, yeah, we're rollin' here, we're good to go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that the bait of Land Cruiser versus Land Cruiser product?

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, the argument for Land Cruiser is that this is a vehicle, even though Toyota won't say this, I've talked to Insiders, that's designed and manufactured to last a 250,000 mile service cycle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the old one, the old one was, yeah, where the product was a normal 150, one [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what made a Land Cruiser special is that it was a much heavier duty vehicle than anything else in the lineup and really anything else in the market I just I just feel like in a way to to sense the 100 series has I wouldn't take cut corners, but [SPEAKER_00]: It hasn't been as stout even though 100 series the break the first time we took it 200 series was kind of what most people would say is a high-water market for reliability Our mechanics things otherwise So but with this new product one of the reasons I don't think that's too big issue is like listen If you are listening right now or watching right now in Kenya

[SPEAKER_03]: But you're just called a Prado.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's a Land Cruiser, I mean.

[SPEAKER_03]: This is a Prado, though.

[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no.

[SPEAKER_03]: Fair that gets to call it whatever they want.

[SPEAKER_03]: And it says Land Cruiser on it.

[SPEAKER_03]: So let's call it what it is.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you can get what you're saying in other countries it's a Prado, but that it here, it's a Land Cruiser.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, what I'm saying is if I was an Eastern Sahara, and I needed a vehicle that would work.

[SPEAKER_00]: through the desert 250 times a year and they're the harshest conditions.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think maybe there is an advantage to getting the full-size land cruiser.

[SPEAKER_00]: But listen, I'm a nerd, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: I go out to Moe, I have a few times a year, I like doing what I want to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do we want to tell him what to do?

[SPEAKER_00]: Let me finish my thought first.

[SPEAKER_00]: I go up, you know, a few times a year.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm typically driving a Starbucks, I'm going to the office.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really need that crazy durability that the land cruiser is.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that this still has the same Toyota quality that [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's some argument there, but that you come to expect and it works for what I needed to do.

[SPEAKER_00]: So do you want to go into low range or do you just want to stay in high range?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we're going up our trenches course here.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to start in low range first.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not going through any modes on no lockers.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if it'll crawl up our elephant steps completely unlocked with just tracked.

[SPEAKER_00]: You can control and then we'll try to get with everything locked up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and what you have to be fair, it's three tires on this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, 20 inch wheels on a Land Cruiser's Diabolical.

[SPEAKER_00]: So there we have our first transition.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're left front right rear in the air.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's doing it even on lock.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Pretty good articulation, even though this one doesn't have the disconnect for the stable edge of our But with this modern A-track system, there's so responsive that you can go through pretty much anything fully unlocked even flexed out.

[SPEAKER_00]: It did great and you weren't even in the last road mode.

[SPEAKER_00]: You were just that was just low range It's low range.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now we'll do it again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, and Lancers are does have standard center locker and standard rear locker even in the 1958 [SPEAKER_00]: So we'll lock her up and see how that changes things.

[SPEAKER_00]: We can also engage a terrain mode and we can also engage crawl control and go for all the bells and whistles.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's try that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It can't hurt.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what I love about this though, this is why I think that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Personally, I would sacrifice maybe some...

[SPEAKER_00]: potential durability for drive ability.

[SPEAKER_00]: When you're out on a trail like this, this is so much better than any of the quote, real-an cruisers that I've driven in the past.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just nimble in the turning radius is great, the visibility is great and it just feels eager to climb.

[SPEAKER_00]: So centerlocked, we'll do rearlocker two, [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if you can get that to click on.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's always a problem with Twitter.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Twitter always says it takes a more...

[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a more...

[SPEAKER_03]: It takes a more rolling for it to actually engage.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll drive 300 miles in that direction, then it will click on.

[SPEAKER_00]: Multi-terrain select, let's go into... We're going to rock mode, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, actually turns off that when you go to crawl control.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll do crawl control just to demonstrate that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's foot off of the throttle and the brake.

[SPEAKER_00]: and the car is doing it all by itself.

[SPEAKER_00]: And look how smooth that is.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's not has herky jerky as when you're going.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, so that's that rear locker engaged.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we've got positive action to both rear tires of the same speed.

[SPEAKER_00]: What a dream, look at that.

[SPEAKER_03]: And hopefully, Tommy, we're not going to snap a front diff.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, they'll be too soon to be the third one.

[SPEAKER_03]: The third tip of this, we would have snapped, and that would be bad.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then, once you're through the obstacle, you can turn off, crawl, control, and I'm going to unlock everything, and let's talk about the ride quality.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's great.

[SPEAKER_03]: Actually, that's one of my favorite things on this vehicle.

[SPEAKER_03]: Unlike the four on there, it's very comfortable.

[SPEAKER_03]: Not a lot of head bob there, as you saw.

[SPEAKER_03]: Not a lot of, uh, [SPEAKER_03]: like intrusion from the obstacles coming into the cabin and the seats are also very comfortable.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and they have lumbar support, unfortunately only on your side, but that's okay because next time I'm going driving it.

[SPEAKER_03]: That was not okay, I know, that's so cheap, that's so cheap, like come on, this is 70,000 you could put lumbar support on the passenger and driver side.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's unusual about this going back to my visibility argument is, you know, we're going down our logs course now or bouncing all over, but I can clearly see what's at the front of the vehicle because of this high driving position and a relatively low hood, so it's very easy to see what's on the front end there.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I also got to give them a lot of props for this traction and the throttle management in this thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you got a hybrid system 465 pound feet of torque, but one of my favorite things about this is that instantaneous throttle response right off, right off, idle.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to go up rocks?

[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go up a rocks course, bolder boulevard as we call it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[SPEAKER_00]: We'll try just a little bit of light rock crawling here.

[SPEAKER_03]: Let's see what the camera show you.

[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.

[SPEAKER_03]: Good views.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we got side views.

[SPEAKER_03]: For those of you who are listening, we got front views and we can change those around.

[SPEAKER_03]: Cameras have become a kind of game changer in the off-road road.

[SPEAKER_03]: The problem is they flatten everything out.

[SPEAKER_03]: So when you're up against a cliff, you're not sure how far you are.

[SPEAKER_03]: When you're about to go over a cliff, you're not sure how close you're out of the edge.

[SPEAKER_03]: But they do let you see that cliff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So these 20 inch wheels are probably not ideal for the situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: We also need to talk about [SPEAKER_00]: There we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: There we go.

[SPEAKER_00]: The ground clearance, I think they only rated at 8.6 or 8.7 inches.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're just no grand.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where they're measuring from, but I think it's more than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I don't want to say more than that, but I think that's the worst case scenario.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm trying to say, but I want to know what's your brewsive more than that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but super is one of a low range?

[SPEAKER_03]: No.

[SPEAKER_03]: And they have a CVT.

[SPEAKER_00]: That really limits where you can take them.

[SPEAKER_03]: Which combined doesn't help when it comes to operating gas.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now for our approach into paratrox tests, so this is a lot of lane.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really steep climb with a immediate dip right beforehand.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're curious to see if we can clear this.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a tonic capacity on this thing.

[SPEAKER_03]: six thousand.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's another thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: The GX is nine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I don't know if I don't want to take take.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a midsize truck.

[SPEAKER_00]: The problem with that is then you run into wheelbase challenges at 9,000 pounds and the wheelbase and that these seems is pretty sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: You might hit the mud flaps here.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a mud flap hitting right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, the rear bumper falls off.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not the rear bumper.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a bug flap.

[SPEAKER_03]: Now, I've got the one we're only here.

[SPEAKER_03]: And this is Toyota's Toyota.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so we've got a base price of 61,470.

[SPEAKER_03]: So we do have a new one.

[SPEAKER_03]: MSRP of 70,164.

[SPEAKER_03]: So there's basically $8,000 worth of stuff on this one.

[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.

[SPEAKER_03]: And that includes $1,200 for those 20 inch L.O.s, which you love so much.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_03]: The rear bumper guard is 230.

[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.

[SPEAKER_03]: That said, they're going to cover the, covers the towing.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then the most expensive option is the Land Cruiser premium package time.

[SPEAKER_03]: It's 4600 so that includes things like a cold box.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's got a cooler.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, look at that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Look at that.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can't wait to kill you.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can chill your libation to how we want.

[SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, moonroof, that's also nice.

[SPEAKER_03]: Cheeks, Charles, oh, Chiwagher, this charging leather trim, memory, driver seat, lane changes, cis, cross traffic alert, remote, connect, trial, subscription, I don't know what that is.

[SPEAKER_03]: Subway for a 14-speaker JBL premium, basically all the goodies that you'd want.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, except for the discriminable sway bar.

[SPEAKER_00]: which I think so shout out to my friend Noah, who's actually shopping for one of these right now and he's deep, deep, deep into like analyzing options and that kind of thing, but yeah he was saying that it's standard for 26 which is awesome.

[SPEAKER_03]: So it also has the digital mirror which people love or hate, it's kind of like cuts both ways.

[SPEAKER_00]: So to answer a question that we've pitched at the beginning, I actually don't think it's a dud at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: All of the languages I've driven, which have been 45560, 80, 100, 200, 150.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is my favorite.

[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I think that it's the right size, it's the right shape, it's the right interior, and I hate to say it, but it's kind of the white price point compared to where it was in the previous gen.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Toyota is just killing it with off-road rotors.

[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, right now, people want to have at least that impression of an active lifestyle.

[SPEAKER_03]: And so off-roaders are really big.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can see what Honda is doing with their trail support.

[SPEAKER_03]: You can see what the Koreans are doing with their XRT version.

[SPEAKER_03]: And yet, Toyota has, when you think about it, five serious off-roaders, Android to coma, four-runner, land cruiser, GX, actually six, LX.

[SPEAKER_03]: I'm probably missing something.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you say Tacoma?

[SPEAKER_03]: I did.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you say a graph for woodland?

[SPEAKER_03]: I did not.

[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't say BZ woodland either.

[SPEAKER_03]: OK.

[SPEAKER_03]: I think I forgot those on purpose.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think the only thing that this thing really needs which would be cool would be like a pro version, because even like the most capable tire you can get is just not that capable.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I would love to see them sell one out of the box, rock rails, 18 inch wheels with a kale 3, more antibody protection, and maybe even an integrated wind should be awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if Toyota did that, I'd be stoked.

[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you know, Land Rover with the defender sells all that stuff and I've got to assume that they make a lot of money on You know the latter Yes, push bar, you know everything that you can get bored because a lot of people first thing they do it So our friend Alan who just bought one just took it to sleep.

[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and spend you know a lot of money upgrading it and that's money the tutors leaving on the table Which they could be [SPEAKER_03]: You know, taking back to corporate for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well guys, that's all we have to say about the Land Cruiser for now, but now we're going to cut back to the studio and talk about the big offroad news of the week.

[SPEAKER_00]: Alright everybody, we're back in the studio with case!

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a little switcheroo.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, and we've got some news of the week we're going to talk about in the offroad space.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think the coolest thing this happened recently is this launch of this new Jeep.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a Willis 392, so this is going to be the most [SPEAKER_01]: affordable if you can call it that 392 Wrangler that they've come out with so far.

[SPEAKER_01]: MSRP is 70,000 plus about two grand destination.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's quite a bit less expensive than especially the previous Rubicon 392s that were hovering around a hundred grand, especially toward the end of things.

[SPEAKER_01]: When they first came out they were what 80 something.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think they were like 80, 90, something like that, but I mean, do you remember when people were buying the, the quote, final edition, 390 do's over 100 or $10,000.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's, but now if you didn't do that, you can buy a new Wrangler with the 6.4 liter V8.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's 478 horsepower.

[SPEAKER_00]: for $69.95 plus $2,000 in destinations.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're looking at $72,000, so now this is now the cheapest way to get into a $392 wrangler.

[SPEAKER_00]: The willys version of it though, it's missing a couple of things.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the one that they've been showing on the website, last I checked the configurator wasn't live for these vehicles yet, but the one they're showing on the website is a really cool shade of gold, like the color that they're showing a lot, but they're showing it with a soft top, so a more basic top option, and it's gonna have a rear locker, but not a front locker.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly right, yeah, so just like the other wheelies in the lineup, it's only rear locked, which honestly, it's probably fine for most people.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say so because it still has a 35 inch tall tires inside this thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's still very well equipped.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it comes standard with an apple leather, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to get the big screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to get center heated seats likely all that stuff, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: But you're not going to get, I don't think it comes to the sway bar disconnect.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I come to the front locker, but then you're also saving $10,000 compared to the other ones.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you want some more off-road hardware, you could get into a Moab 392, which is going to get you the front locker.

[SPEAKER_01]: I believe also the sway bar disconnect.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So that's going to get some more hardware, still less expensive than the Rubicon 392s were back [SPEAKER_01]: way back when, but this willus is pretty interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of people have the perspective of why.

[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you need a V8 in a Wrangler?

[SPEAKER_01]: You absolutely don't.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's why it's fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you're doing 100% off-roading, then the Penta Star is perfectly fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: It will get you up any rocky need to crawl.

[SPEAKER_01]: But most of us are driving majority of the time on the road.

[SPEAKER_01]: And the 392 is obviously horrible on fuel, not that a kind of star wrangler is great, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: But a 392 in a wrangler is so much fun.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's genuinely to me.

[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the most fun I've had in any brand new vehicle because it feels like a mad science project.

[SPEAKER_01]: You get on the throttle, the front end picks up, the back end squats, the suspension's got too much travel and it's too soft for the amount of horse power and torque that this power train has, it's hilarious.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to your credit, it doesn't really feel like a fully finished product.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just kind of what makes it very awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we should explain a little bit what Jeep is up to.

[SPEAKER_00]: If you click, call the button.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is back to the drop zone on the Jeep website.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so what Jeep is doing is they're doing this thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's called 12 for 12 or something, where they're revealing a new, [SPEAKER_00]: new model every month for 12 months, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: So what are some of the other ones we've seen?

[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen like the MOA 392, the white cap, the white cap.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you see the, I think it's the 40th anniversary version?

[SPEAKER_00]: or 85th.

[SPEAKER_00]: 85th anniversary.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Steve, you can find it, because this I didn't pay much attention to, because it just looks like a white Wrangler, but there's actually something really cool with this.

[SPEAKER_00]: There it is, 85th.

[SPEAKER_00]: See, do you hear it on this thing?

[SPEAKER_01]: The seats, yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is really cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a plaid seat, which is interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: The one that they're showing on their website is WhitexDerear.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's otherwise looks fairly unremarkable.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: The seats are pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: So again, a lot of these, [SPEAKER_01]: drops that they're doing of new trends aren't substantial differences, a lot of them are kind of appearance.

[SPEAKER_00]: Package sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: But that willus 392 that they just dropped is pretty interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's still a lot of money for a vehicle period.

[SPEAKER_01]: But again, a 392 Wrangler, so much fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: So Jeep has a long history, a long history of slapping paints and colors and calling it a special edition, but do you want to take a moment and talk to you about my favorite special edition Wrangler that ever done?

[SPEAKER_00]: Ever?

[SPEAKER_00]: Call of Duty Black Ops.

[SPEAKER_00]: Can you look that one up?

[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good one.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's right, Cole.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cole, our producer, giving us a skeptical look.

[SPEAKER_00]: Back in the day, I think it was J.K. Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: They had an addition of the Wrangler, which was, oh boy, Call of Duty Black Ops, which was a black Wrangler that just has some graphics on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the production one, like bottom left their coal, the Carson Bids one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a production one.

[SPEAKER_00]: It gives you a badge on the side.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.

[SPEAKER_00]: But my favorite one, look up the Wrangler Dragon Edition.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know who approved this or what they were trying to promote here, but all they did was they painted a dragon on the side of a Wrangler.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which is enough for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Look at that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's pretty sweet.

[SPEAKER_01]: And this gold in the grill and on the wheels.

[SPEAKER_01]: They just gave a Wrangler a tattoo and painted the grill-sloth gold, even the steering wheels got gold on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's spectacular.

[SPEAKER_01]: What about the Tomb Raider TJs?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have forgotten about those.

[SPEAKER_00]: You want to look that one up?

[SPEAKER_00]: That one is actually cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: The Dragon Edition is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in my entire life.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the Tomb Raider TJ...

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it had special wheels and all kinds of different.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did they actually build that?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, did they really?

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there you go.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a cards and bits one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.

[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, that one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that must be the production one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of kind of stuff on it.

[SPEAKER_01]: That was pretty cool, actually.

[SPEAKER_00]: My favorite TJ is the look up the Golden Eagle TJ.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember this?

[SPEAKER_00]: This is so cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: They just painted a needle on the hood and called it a day.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, look at that, tell me not to rock one of those.

[SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely would.

[SPEAKER_01]: 100% yeah golden eagle.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty pretty nice.

[SPEAKER_01]: That things are bad, but yeah as as far as the new Jeep the Willis 392 goes And you know, it would be cool to get the Moab to have that extra hardware if you're actually going to run it on a trail pretty often, but Genuinely and and Tommy's kind of the same way [SPEAKER_01]: As many new cars as we review, there's only for each of us maybe half a dozen brand new cars that either of us would actually want to buy.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, Shatt Moab 392, especially, is one of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'm stoked about this thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Very, very cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll be hopefully either driving a, or maybe we can convince Roman to buy one for the company because I think it is, that's a super cool thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, we've also got a little bit more news with scout motors.

[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so there was a report by a publication called their Spiegel, that scout is delaying a launch of their new SUV until 2028.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that outlet claimed it was due to technical difficulties and previous financial obligations.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, scout still says they are on track for 2027 production window.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think they need to get this thing out the door already.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think soon of the better, especially because we're pretty excited to drive it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, Scout hasn't confirmed any delays.

[SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[SPEAKER_01]: It wouldn't necessarily be surprising if there is some delay before the time that these actually get launched.

[SPEAKER_01]: It takes a long time to launch a brand new vehicle, and especially from a new company, even though the Volkswagen involvement should help.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of aspects, they're setting up a new company, new manufacturing for a new vehicle.

[SPEAKER_01]: It takes time, sometimes those timelines get pushed back, but we're very excited to drive.

[SPEAKER_01]: These vehicles, you've actually gone and seen the prototypes in person.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that they're 100% [SPEAKER_00]: on the right track with the range extended one I think I personally this is just my speculation I think that we're not going to see the full electric one because there's so much interest in the range extended one with the gas engine you don't even think they're going to do it no I don't think I think the complexity of having to produce two different battery packs and market two different vehicles is dumb I wouldn't be surprised by the time this thing comes out be a 27 or 28 that it'll only be the range extended one and I honestly like

[SPEAKER_00]: It's so funny because when I talk to people, the majority of folks I talk to are really excited about the idea of a range extender.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be some of the most positive reception that we've ever seen to an electrified vehicle, especially in recent years, for sure, because it has some of those traditional aspects to it like the solid rare acts of like a body on frame construction.

[SPEAKER_01]: And even just a few items like that should make these scouts some of, if not, when they come out, the best and most rugged off-road vehicles in the electrified space.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would think that this has got the potential.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're definitely a lot more trim and athletic than Hummer EVs.

[SPEAKER_01]: And a slightly more traditional configuration than [SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's really good opportunity for these to be absolutely the best electrified vehicles off-road ever made.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm there, come out.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think that it's very, very interesting that they've committed to that for a thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: They committed to the Solidaxe in the rear as a really cool plan.

[SPEAKER_00]: They still kind of teach you about what the details on the Ranger Center are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like we don't actually know what that engine is going to be yet.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think there's been some speculation, yeah, it's going to be some relatively compact and small displacement engine that it's not going to go on to the hood.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think it goes in the back.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's it's believed to be probably in the eight triple eight, which is the Volk's Cascout is owned by the Volk's [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they use it in the tick one and the golf and the outie a everything at least at least.

[SPEAKER_00]: If it's got a four cylinders in the atriple late, but that would be powerful enough to charge a battery for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: It could also be potentially three cylinders.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, a lot of interesting things going on.

[SPEAKER_00]: We've also heard rumors that I don't know if it's rumored or confirmed, but that outie is going to be using this platform too for G-Wagon competitor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which would be pretty cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: That would be.

[SPEAKER_00]: That would be pretty bad.

[SPEAKER_01]: We could use some more G-Wagon competitors.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're not in that tax bracket, but we still get to drive some of these things, so I'd be happy [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I did have a little more piece of news, go to the Tesla website for off-road podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you read this?

[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the more bizarre things I've done.

[SPEAKER_00]: Controversial thing you're doing here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're keeping it off-road space.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, apparently you can buy a cyber truck now for $59,000, $59,990, but only for 10 days.

[SPEAKER_00]: and then the price changes to what?

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm clear.

[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't, guys, I don't have the full details that I needed to do some digging.

[SPEAKER_00]: I just saw the headline.

[SPEAKER_00]: But apparently, you can buy a cyber truck now for 59, 9, 9 or whatever, but only for 10 days.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm rather walk.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So enough with that, we do want to talk about one of the thing teasing something that you and colded.

[SPEAKER_00]: You actually did drive an off-roader.

[SPEAKER_01]: Think case, think like earlier this week earlier this week.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, kind of, I'm not really good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy's talking about the new Cherokee.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did they let you drive me crazy?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was raining hard.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, but I think it was all mudslide conditions.

[SPEAKER_01]: Although we turned around in a dirt parking lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there you go.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a park where I run.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did they have an off-road course plan before I got right out?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they had a plan for something.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, wow, while we were there, it wasn't an option.

[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.

[SPEAKER_00]: These manufacturers, they create these courses, and when they get rained out, they shut them down, they should just let us send it through there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, maybe way more interesting.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't feel that bad that we missed out on whatever off-roading they had planned, because obviously, the Cherokee is not planned to be a Wrangler competitor, so any off-road course they would set up.

[SPEAKER_01]: would be most likely relatively mild.

[SPEAKER_01]: What I'm excited for is when we get a Cherokee here at the office in Colorado, and we can test it out ourselves, both on this lip test and on some actual trails, because I think there's decent potential for the Traktor Control programming to be pretty good on that vehicle.

[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have a low range gear set.

[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have tons of clearance, so it's not gonna be the most all-out capable thing in the world, but compared to maybe RA4 or a CRV or another similarly sized crossover.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's got the potential probably to do pretty well, because you and I tested on a very mild stretch of trail the Waggeneer S of all things.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it had about two inches of ground clearance, [SPEAKER_01]: But the traction control programming was still really good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even though it's not a Jeep-like vehicle at all, they still do a great job with the traction control programming.

[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like Land Rover does with some of their more street-focused vehicles.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Because they've got a really good traction control program that exists, they can apply that to even some of their milder vehicles.

[SPEAKER_01]: And if the Cherokee is that way, [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be limited on clearance, but it might do okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure So if you guys want to check out the Cherokee Grand Cherokee the drive-in-pression from Bargles up I think next week So I don't over to altifl.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: Those videos will be there.

[SPEAKER_01]: I will say though, and I think it's probably going to remain this way for a long time would be my guess [SPEAKER_01]: Bronco Sport, if you're looking for a really small soft rotor, as we call them, not off-roaders, but kind of across over with a few rugged features, the Bronco Sport is the best off-road by far.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really good.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's not even, it's not even the biggest shame, especially this one that you drove, which is the Sasquatch.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not a full-blown Bronco, but for what it is, it's very impressive.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really the biggest thing that is lacking is a low range.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's still does pretty well though, not tons of articulation because it is a more street-oriented suspension, but it does okay with clearance.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it has nine inches.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's got the center lock and a rear locker.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's got pretty good traction.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it does, it does a good job.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is a punchy little vehicle.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can genuinely go have some fun on some fairly mild trails with the Broncos Board.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually, this is crazy.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking about buying one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for your wife, for my wife.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because her fiance is going to be out of miles and she needs a car and she She actually does like the Broncosport lot and I like the Broncosport lot and she would rather probably have a CRV, but I don't really want to drive a CRV Plus like a Broncosport, it's just like a little bit more interesting than the RAF4 and I'm even more interesting than the Cherokee, I hate to say it And especially if you get like, we probably wouldn't get that squash one because they're expensive, but if you do, it's a very capable little machine [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and even some of the more basic, my, my fiance has a badlands.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that has, so hers is earlier, it's before they were doing this ask about your package, so hers is not a lifted suspension, but we have some wild peaks, so slightly more aggressive tire on it, and it has the rear locker and the center locker.

[SPEAKER_01]: So.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's got a pretty good traction.

[SPEAKER_01]: We've taken it on some mild trails, and it's fun.

[SPEAKER_00]: The biggest shame, and I'm just so bummed that they didn't launch it with the rest of the car, is the new Cherokee.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's been rumors about it, but where is the trailhawk?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is something they need to do.

[SPEAKER_01]: When we were in the presentation for it, there were a few [SPEAKER_01]: And they were not so subtly.

[SPEAKER_01]: hinting at it.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it seems very possible that they're going to do it, which would be great.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that the coolest vehicle in this category that died a long time ago, but the old Cherokee, the weird looking one, that trailhawk was actually insane.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was even arguably better than the Broncos port because it had a low range.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't have a central transfer case.

[SPEAKER_00]: It actually had two low ranges because you had to have one in the front and one in the rear.

[SPEAKER_01]: for the configuration on that all-wheel drive system to get a low range into it.

[SPEAKER_00]: The transverse melody of two separate sets of low ranges technically, and a mechanical locker.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like this brago sport, it does have a rear locker.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's technically a dual clutch thing that works really well.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that the Cherokee had a physical actual locker.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that thing was just like insane.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was really cool and super good off-road and people that own them, especially the tri-hocs seem to really love them.

[SPEAKER_00]: The NICE beat was kind of a disaster, so they weren't the best made vehicles, but they were actually, and they also look strange, but they were very very good off-road Yeah, so I really think they need to do that on the new one, and I worry that because it's a standard hybrid now, the new Cherokee isn't it?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they're also standard all-wheel drive, which is a good thing, that's good But they need to do something cool like that again to compete with Ford The other thing I don't love about the Cherokee is a marketing of you seeing this [SPEAKER_00]: The dude like this don't call to come back thing, because they're like throwing it way back to the XJs of the 90s.

[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have time for that?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so they keep showing SJs and especially XJs in their marketing for the new Cherokee.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's in general, maybe not a good sign in a manufacturer's confidence around a new vehicle if they're spending more time marketing the XJs from 30 years ago.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this is this one time about they had this full reveal and been in New York and look it's more ex-J Cherokee than actually the new one.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, still waiting to see the new one.

[SPEAKER_00]: That little cool Jay, like to do with his big 90's thing, which I love the 90's, but if you're going to do a throwback to the ex-J, you have to make it an actual ex-J, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it doesn't work if it's just going to be this unabody hybrid thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that they really need to make it a proper ex-J replacement and then they're trying to claim it is, but people just aren't buying it.

[SPEAKER_01]: No, but especially if they can make a trailhawk version of this Cherokee, and they can maintain the majority of the fuel economy that they've got on this, which EPA is rated at 37 MPG combined.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's really, really good, really good number.

[SPEAKER_01]: So if they can make, obviously a trailhawk version that's maybe going to sit a little taller, has different bumpers, potentially different tires.

[SPEAKER_01]: You would assume it's not going to be as good on fuel economy, but if they could be a decent bit over 30 MPG combined and have some of those features, then that could be actually a pretty appealing vehicle for a lot of people.

[SPEAKER_00]: So head on over to altifel.com, case and coal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cole doesn't have as many driving pressures, but case definitely has some on the new Cherokee and the little stuff you over there.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want you our next segment, which is called What's in the Garage?

[SPEAKER_00]: What is it?

[SPEAKER_00]: And this is this is this is a problem I was having.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's kind of a hilarious problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm working on restoring my little 1947 CJ2A [SPEAKER_00]: is you distribute your rusting?

[SPEAKER_00]: It has rusted.

[SPEAKER_00]: The distributor who was full of water as you remember, so naturally about a new distributor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, see if you notice the problem.

[SPEAKER_00]: Go back to the first distributor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Do you notice something the problem with the new position of it?

[SPEAKER_00]: The position of it, Kate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So when I went to install the distributor, I made sure to note where the rotor was pointing on the old one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Which if you're not watching as fine, it's pointed to the top left.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I lined up the rotor on the new one, get it to be all seated and I go to stick it in there.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you excuse me and it would not line up top left like I could not get it lined up top left But it would see perfectly bottom right So it's exactly 180 degrees off.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's not gonna work.

[SPEAKER_00]: Not not so good [SPEAKER_00]: So I talked to my friend David Tracy at the atop in my flat Fender Jeep expert.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's restored like a thousand of them and he's very very Townton and like what do I do?

[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, well, look at the actual shot, shaft and look at like the little prong that lines up with the little dowel.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you go to the next one, you can actually see.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is riveting picture here.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the actual prong is offset on the shaft, on purpose.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it can physically only be installed one way.

[SPEAKER_00]: I might have another, did I send you a third picture?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, anyway, if you look at a top angle, you'll see that that's offset one way.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it will only be installed 180 degrees off.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not like a little off it's exactly 180, so I'm like, well, should I need to go get a new distributor?

[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a whole thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then David had a brilliant idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: He said, well, if it's 180 degrees off, just swap the spark plugs around the wires.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he said, 1 will be 3 and 2 will be 4.

[SPEAKER_00]: So now I'm back in business all because of some math.

[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if that'll work, let me know in the comments section below.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it will.

[SPEAKER_00]: This is not a particular problem I've ever faced.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's weird that, so one thing I didn't learn is the distributor that's in it is totally the wrong distributor, the old one.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's off of a military Jeep, and it's too small, and anyway.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the new one is technically the correct distributor.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's just exactly 180 degrees off.

[SPEAKER_00]: One and three and two and four and my work.

[SPEAKER_01]: Come.

[SPEAKER_01]: We'll give it a try out.

[SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna you have a hard time breaking Yeah, you're not gonna break that thing, but it's about four and a half to one compression or something like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just guys got the compression of a wet fart And then we need to talk about something else that happened this week the biggest thing Case was involved in this a little bit so we went off-roading in our land cruiser our new to us 100 series and what happened case [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it didn't like it, that's for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, blew up the front diff almost, almost immediately.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we're trying to do like 80 feet I broke it.

[SPEAKER_01]: We were trying to do the Razer Rocks.

[SPEAKER_01]: First time we had brought this 100 series on the trail.

[SPEAKER_01]: Roman's been really excited about this land cruiser because it is a fun purchase.

[SPEAKER_01]: We love older vehicles and land cruises obviously have this reputation.

[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so apparently these front diffs breaking on 100 series is a fairly common issue.

[SPEAKER_00]: We brought it over to Charlie's Toyota repair and boulder.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's our Toyota guru, really, really talented mechanic.

[SPEAKER_00]: He pulled it apart.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was hoping we could get away with just like, oh, we blew a CV, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, what this image is of are the broken teeth.

[SPEAKER_00]: Shrapnel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the differential exploded.

[SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of hard to get parts for them, because most land cruisers are still on the road.

[SPEAKER_01]: So there's not a lot of them just sitting in junkyards [SPEAKER_01]: peruse for parts.

[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is a really interesting thing because, like, you know, Land Cruisers have a reputation of being indestructible, but after we published this video, some people in the no said that this is actually the weepness on 100 series Land Cruisers.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, Cole, go back to the video, I pinned the interesting comment.

[SPEAKER_00]: We met this really, really talented engineer named Tim Cooper.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he specializes in Axles, like that's what he does.

[SPEAKER_01]: And he's a well-known guy in a lot of different communities and he knows what he's doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So he said something interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: He said, these used the same little eight-inch high-pinging ring in Pinycet as the 80-series saw at Axle.

[SPEAKER_00]: But the 100 series IFSCV joints are much larger and stronger than the ones in the 80-series saw at Axle.

[SPEAKER_00]: It is surprisingly easy to break that eight-inch gear set in these heavy beasts.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm still dumbfounded that Toyota didn't use a nine and a half inch diff as a basis for this IF.

[SPEAKER_00]: IFS, and otherwise super beefy truck.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it is interesting because this is a heavy vehicle.

[SPEAKER_01]: It weighs about 5,400 pounds, which especially for 20 years ago is not small.

[SPEAKER_01]: I like the second comment on this video, at least the side steps didn't get damaged.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so if you haven't seen this video so far, take a lot of effort.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did they make it into the video?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I haven't watched it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I believe all of them and people are if you scroll down on the top People upset at me.

[SPEAKER_00]: No people love that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay good They thought it was really really funny Especially see I prove a face is bloting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I've died people like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay I'm a fault transparency.

[SPEAKER_01]: I was not planning for my gloating to be a part of this video [SPEAKER_01]: So we, Tommy and I both own land robbers, when we make videos about our land robbers, we own and we're very transparent about like, look, these are not the crap.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, these are not great vehicles.

[SPEAKER_01]: We enjoy them.

[SPEAKER_01]: And we just get absolutely berated by comments in every video we make about every land rover.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, look, every vehicle breaks, not saying that land cruises break nearly as often as land robbers.

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but.

[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when the playing field gets leveled out a little bit, I'm like, hey.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel a little vindicated to be honest.

[SPEAKER_00]: Case is like, well, listen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And basically the worst thing is cases desperately wants that old differential to the hang on his mantle above his fireplace.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I am going to keep that better mind or get a ball from the client of friends.

[SPEAKER_00]: But no, it is interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I kept reviewing the footage because I thought maybe I could screw something up badly because yeah, I'm a pretty shit driver.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I think what happened there, because I've watched the video about a thousand times when we were editing it, as I was going up the razor rocks, [SPEAKER_00]: Um, two tires unloaded.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: So the A track system fully articulate.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it starts going.

[SPEAKER_00]: But then when we fully lose traction on the right rear, the A track system, I think kind of panics because you can see I never let off on the throttle.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so were you two footing for a part of it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I was, but as it starts to slide back, you can see the right wheels continues to accelerate.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I think what happened was a truck kind of gave up.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was grabbing the brakes, doing what was supposed to do, then I got really off-kilter and it was like, oh, so at least all brake pressure, then it became a fully open diff, the car slip back.

[SPEAKER_00]: If my reaction time was better, if I knew what was happening in the moment, I should have let off immediately, because what happened was that I was still in the throttle as it started to slide back, then it gripped in the front on the bottom of the hill.

[SPEAKER_01]: and snapped it, snapped it.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it definitely partially my fault, partially the computer just like freaking out a little.

[SPEAKER_00]: But this is an example of like we're having, probably the mechanical locker, the bigger big advantage.

[SPEAKER_01]: We make a big difference.

[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, how many vehicles from every brand that makes any kind of 4x4 have you driven up the Razer Rocks?

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, many.

[SPEAKER_01]: And how many front diffs have you exploded?

[SPEAKER_01]: Zero, okay.

[SPEAKER_01]: to What was not even on the Razor box and that wasn't you before the Razor.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we're really good at blowing up Toyota front diff.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you've got a front diff that you don't You're mad at lend it to me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll blow it up pretty good at it now.

[SPEAKER_00]: But luckily, so to cases point, this is really interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: We actually had two Toyota shops go on the hunt for diffs.

[SPEAKER_00]: Neither of them could really find one.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're hard to find.

[SPEAKER_00]: apparently the really hard find, but thankfully we had a viewer that just has one, who's sending it to us, which is wild.

[SPEAKER_00]: So here's Stakey, I think his name is Nathan, right?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, I think if you wanted to fix this issue more or less, you're, you know, you're still going to be working with that same basic design of front diff.

[SPEAKER_01]: But if this vehicle, we're not going to spend this amount of money, because the whole point of this is to be [SPEAKER_01]: if there is such a thing in the Land Cruiser world, but if you wanted to fix this issue airlockers would make the biggest difference because then you would have so much more control ultimately with open diffs and even with a really good traction control system like a track, there's always going to be some amount of bucking and back and forth and that is hard on the drive line.

[SPEAKER_01]: So you can try to mitigate that.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's always going to be some of it unless you do air lockers in which case you've got all of that control and you can just slowly and methodically crawl up a feature.

[SPEAKER_00]: For sure, or the other solution to this is you buy discovery two with a 9.6 inch front diff.

[SPEAKER_01]: Don't, don't even go there, Tommy.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get taken off the air if you start suggesting things like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: People are not going to like it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I think, don't buy a disco two.

[SPEAKER_01]: I have a discussion because, I don't know, because I like pain.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because he likes pain, that's exactly right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, look ultimately, I think what we're proving time and time again.

[SPEAKER_00]: Is that maybe where the dumb ones here put like ultimately these things are not great rock rollers, right not that they're intended to be but people do use them as such, which is why they put massive tires on them, but yeah, it's interesting we'll get it fixed we'll get it back on the road.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought maybe like it was a sign of where because there was like that little bit of a clunk Charlie was saying like he's got a ton of line cruisers and they all kind of do it a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he said it's probably not a weird thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was just when it hit the traction it just it exploded.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think to your point, vehicles like this 100 series especially make for really good overlanders because they are very comfortable.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're generally very durable.

[SPEAKER_01]: There's not tons of frequent maintenance items or failure points on them in general.

[SPEAKER_01]: So as an overlander, it's it's awesome if you're cruising the Serengetti and everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: But it is, it's a heavy vehicle.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 5,400 pounds.

[SPEAKER_01]: The physics at play there are such that you can chalky.

[SPEAKER_01]: You can shred some metal.

[SPEAKER_00]: Did you have anything in the garage this week?

[SPEAKER_01]: Um, there's a lot of things in my garage.

[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't, I haven't messed with it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But nothing broken.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you had your truck fixed.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was big news.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I got a cut.

[SPEAKER_01]: I got a I had the front main seal redone on my truck because I've done it once before Didn't use an OEM seal.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just used what O'Reilly's had in stock because I need to get it done to go to work the next day [SPEAKER_01]: And that seal was a piece of garbage was really and started leaking worse than the old seal immediately within like the first week So I didn't I've really didn't feel like pulling that crank pulley again Is it a big job done at once before it's not the end of the world, but you know the crank pulley is on there pretty good That's like could my right to be get the crank pulley off now.

[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, absolutely not [SPEAKER_00]: Could you walk you get the crank pulley off?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_00]: It has.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and now let's just slander on here That's what that's what's happening.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you got the new crank pull and does it leak?

[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it doesn't my on the driver side my front Axel seal leaks horribly sometimes I walk out to it and there's a solid puddle Under it, which you know isn't great so I need to get that done and if I'm gonna have them messing with the front axle and replacing seals I might as well [SPEAKER_01]: mess with the diff is at the same time get a little limited slip action in there and if they're going to do a limited slip on the front I should throw something in the rear.

[SPEAKER_01]: It only just makes sense.

[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so that's probably going to be on the horizon for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do lockers on my truck.

[SPEAKER_01]: I've got the disco is a rock crawler.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think the limited slips on the truck would be better in the snow and would be plenty good enough for the amount of off-roading I'm going to do with that.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I would rather do a limited slip front and rear on it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Just clarify it's a second gen comment is the truck.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Dana 60 in the front and Dana 80 in the rear, so I'm not likely to blow up those diffs.

[SPEAKER_00]: You got a lot of, you got a lot of diff oil in there, so you could just leave it leak forever and that's true, it can leak for a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: Seven gallon diff right there.

[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm excited about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: My, the reason I made this up is because case brought it to one of our friends to get fixed and I was listening to the phone call and, and the lady was like, well, like, look, I mean, it's, it's also like we noticed a leak out of here and like out of this thing and cases like that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're good.

[SPEAKER_01]: Just all I need fix is the waterfall out of the front of the motor.

[SPEAKER_01]: If it's seeping a little oil from here and there, that's fine.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a six BT.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they do.

[SPEAKER_01]: 12 valves find me a dry 12 valve Cummins.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying they don't exist.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would just [SPEAKER_01]: I'd enjoy seeing one.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Cummins has never even seen one either.

[SPEAKER_00]: So before we finish up, I do want to go back to the comments of the previous video because you guys have some great comments.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if what we're going to do going forward is if you guys want to interact with us, patreon.com slash dflcar, leave your comments there and our questions and we'll be sure to answer them on air.

[SPEAKER_00]: But for the first one, I thought we'd go to YouTube.

[SPEAKER_00]: uh one comment we said is so we had this big discussion about independent suspension versus IFS last week yeah one guy said you guys left off the best benefit of independent suspension you're not dragging critical drive-line components under the truck below the frame on my H1 if an obstacle clears the front bumper it will go completely under my whole chassis without hitting anything.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do agree that is an interesting point.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah [SPEAKER_00]: H1's probably a little bit more ground clearance of most of the independence stuff we drive.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is potentially a ground clearance advantage with a well-designed independent front suspension, but you're also most likely going to have a solid rear axle, so just because you're other than a hummer.

[SPEAKER_01]: Even on the Bronco, you might clear it with the independent front.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you might still drag it with the solid axle in the rear.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, someone said, uh, what you guys don't ever seem to consider is the electronic systems of these freaking things that land over as cases in point, uh, everything since 2010 has been so electronically, because you'll monitor, you need very expensive and capable scanner just to figure out basic problems and issues, it's way worth with new vehicles.

[SPEAKER_00]: I do agree.

[SPEAKER_00]: Langer was in a specific, like my LR3, which is very tech-legant, there's actually these little scanners you can buy.

[SPEAKER_00]: They're not that expensive.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's, I mean, they're more expensive than your O'Reilly scanner, they're a few hundred dollars.

[SPEAKER_00]: But it's called a gap tool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, this company figured out how to like, get into the brain in the Land Rover.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you plug this little dongle in, it connects your phone, and then you have full control over everything.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can do a essentially a software lift on the suspension so that even its lowest setting is whatever you want it to be in an inch higher potentially if you're going to run a bigger tire and you can go in and mess around with a lot of that stuff pretty easily which is kind of cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly right, and it's terrifying and I never touch it because I don't know what the heck I'm doing But if you do know what you're doing, you can really read out some really interesting things Scots is totally hooked on this concept the wife and I are new to the off-roading world Following for years.

[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.

[SPEAKER_00]: Scott on your years of recommendation and the reality of what we'll do We bought a new to us 21 leather discovery took it to a local offered park yesterday and we're hooked Keep the content coming by the way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Discover discoveries [SPEAKER_00]: No offense, Scott, I think they're kind of ugly, but they are incredible values right now.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like our, they're very cheap.

[SPEAKER_00]: Our friend Alan just traded one in for 120 grand with the HD pack and big tires and they're really good off road.

[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a really cool thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Cara says love this idea.

[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to hear more about aftermarket add-ons such as rock ciders and witches for example brands that you found a big good quality versus junk Tommy didn't you buy some aftermarket parts that rusted almost immediately.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they continue to do so Also discussions on the advantages and disadvantages of different trims and packages.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like the extreme package on the wheelies I know Tommy is done regular buying in the past and I found these useful in buying yeah, we could definitely do that.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's it's kind of hard to have a good [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to have good coverage of exactly how good some aftermarket components are versus others, because we get to test a lot of different vehicles off-road, most of those vehicles are in stock form.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're being sent to us by the manufacturers, but it's not typical that we've maybe had five different bumpers from every brand.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what I think would be really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'll still be about how we do this.

[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be a little tricky, but I'd love to find like I'd love to get like a Harbor Freight Winge in a Warng Winge.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then maybe work with our workshops.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like a Recovery Guy Eric and figure out how to really torture your system.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that would be super interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that would be cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it'd be really, really cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: A good format.

[SPEAKER_00]: I like it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Good evaluation.

[SPEAKER_00]: So you guys seem to kind of like our silly little off-road thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll be sure to keep doing it a little bit.

[SPEAKER_00]: And if there's topics, you guys want us to discuss, leave them in the comments below, because we read all of them.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, it's a fun thing.

[SPEAKER_01]: Now, we also, Tom is up for it.

[SPEAKER_01]: We started this podcast with you and Roman driving a land cruiser.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we did.

[SPEAKER_01]: minutes ago we did that yeah yeah that Toyota obviously makes a lot of SUVs a lot of rugged SUVs in particular and I would be interested to hear your ranking you personally because it's different for everybody between four-runner, land cruiser, GX and LX and [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, there are other Toyota SUVs, but if we're talking about off-roading, we can probably leave this Sequoia out of that list because it's going to be, you know, at the bottom.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's such harsh words.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so are we talking the current ones?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: The brand new one's on sale right now, which we would buy for off-roading, or just kind of in general, we think.

[SPEAKER_01]: I guess maybe a combination, but how would you recommend them if you were shopping?

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, if I was shopping for him, I hate to say this.

[SPEAKER_01]: Tundra is at the bottom.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking SUV's especially.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we're thinking SUV's.

[SPEAKER_01]: We can do trucks another time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's do a SUV.

[SPEAKER_00]: So...

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I kind of think my least favorite of them just kind of a hot take.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Sequoia certainly at the bottom for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'd put 400 at the bottom next.

[SPEAKER_01]: I would put LX at the bottom.

[SPEAKER_00]: LX at the bottom.

[SPEAKER_00]: Really?

[SPEAKER_00]: You missed your triple locked over here.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you put that at the bottom?

[SPEAKER_00]: You know why?

[SPEAKER_01]: That from bumper.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the bumper first.

[SPEAKER_01]: So the LX is the only Toyota product right now that you can buy triple locked here in the states.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.

[SPEAKER_01]: And that is cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's cool that you can get it triple locked, but even in LX over trail.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the LX over trail can clear little more than a speed bump.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's so, it's not, but it's so cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I agree with you right, like the, uh, it's such like a hard thing because it is the only genuinely only I think since the 80 series in the U.S., Twitter, you, or Alexa product, you could buy with a front locking diff.

[SPEAKER_00]: a store like the platform is so good and then they just they they plaster so much plastic onto it the bumper hangs so low and the problem is they were like oh well just cut the bumper but it's like a hundred and twelve thousand dollars yeah so are you really looking for an ax on that somebody was someone will and I'm sure they have I just couldn't do it yeah yeah but I'm talking my dad about this at the beginning of the podcast you wait five six years the thing's only going to depreciate seven eight dollars then it's going to be a hundred eleven thousand dollars and then you chop it up um yeah but that's an interesting [SPEAKER_01]: Also, how much does an LX over trail weigh?

[SPEAKER_00]: I like 90 tons.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think, which ultimately, 95,000 pounds, and especially for us on this pocket, it's a heavy vehicle.

[SPEAKER_01]: We primarily do a lot of rock crawling because we're here in Colorado.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're in the mountains.

[SPEAKER_01]: We're very close to Moab, so we go out there a lot.

[SPEAKER_01]: Rock crawling is a majority of off-roading that we have.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think if you were shopping around again for an overlander, this could still be a really good vehicle, but 63-hundred pounds, it's not that you can't rock crawl with a vehicle that weighs 63-hundred pounds, but you're gonna feel it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, fair enough, all right.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, that's good reasoning.

[SPEAKER_00]: So, I would still put 400th bottom because I just don't like the seating position and I feel like the windows are too small.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have you spent, how much time have you spent in a tiered pro or a trail hunter?

[SPEAKER_00]: uh not much because we did that offer thing and they are very good off-road but i also think the backseat sterile for what it is and 72 grand for a trail hunter or pro is insane for four minutes a lot of so i just don't see the value there considering how small the cabin is but then again we were just talking about some 72 grand including destination for the willis 392 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, if I had a 6.4 liter V8, I think 4-0 would be higher up on the list, I'm not gonna lie, I think that would be awesome.

[SPEAKER_00]: So I would do 4-under, then I would do Alex.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's your second bottom one?

[SPEAKER_01]: Second bottom, for me, is probably gonna be 4-under, unless, so where I'm at?

[SPEAKER_01]: I generally like the land crews are more than the forerunner if we're talking just a regular kind of standard trims of those vehicles I like the design better I like the full time for will drive on the land crews are better.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so there's a few things that.

[SPEAKER_01]: For a land cruiser, design both inside and out, I think it's more interesting than something like the four-unner we had.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, especially, so Tier D off-road, which is good.

[SPEAKER_01]: It had some good hardware, but it was wide exterior black interior, felt like a fleet vehicle, felt like a rental, the frigid air.

[SPEAKER_01]: Four-unner it was not super interesting, I think.

[SPEAKER_01]: Teardy off-road four-runner versus land cruiser.

[SPEAKER_01]: I put the land cruiser head.

[SPEAKER_01]: Me too.

[SPEAKER_01]: But I might actually put a Teardy Pro four-runner over the land cruiser.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so for the standard cars, we both agree land cruiser is better.

[SPEAKER_00]: So top of your list, land cruiser, GX.

[SPEAKER_00]: What are you taking?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I would go GX.

[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I like the V6.

[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you like the engines that blow up?

[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're not blown up in the GXs.

[SPEAKER_01]: Are they not?

[SPEAKER_00]: Will they not?

[SPEAKER_00]: I think they are.

[SPEAKER_00]: Have they not?

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't think that the V6, I drive at 8 miles an hour everywhere so I don't think that I would really use the power of the V6 all that much and the GX interior is a little fancier than you like and I yeah It is if I'm gonna take something off road I don't and I'm gonna get a really dusty and yucky.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I want that nice of an interior [SPEAKER_01]: So your land cruiser top and then GX and then four on her?

[SPEAKER_00]: No, my top is land cruiser, then GX, then LX and four on her.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I also, I've Katie S.S. is amazing, but I kind of love just having the button where you can just disconnect the front sway bar.

[SPEAKER_00]: I agree, it's kind of cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Even though the GX does tow nine, but Andre's tow nine with it, and it's a little short and wheelbase for a lot of weight.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then we're both Sequoia's is not interested in that good SUV for towing yes, but it's a kind of a pig off road.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Yeah, maybe skip the Sequoia.

[SPEAKER_00]: So what's your list top to bottom?

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm probably gonna, again, it kind of depends a little bit on the trim, but let's just say in general standard models, I'll go GX at the top, then land cruiser, then four runner, and then LX.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right, fair enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well guys, let us know what you want to hear in next next week's podcast.

[SPEAKER_00]: Could we try to skip a week?

[SPEAKER_00]: And head over to altithel.com.

[SPEAKER_00]: We got more of these coming for you soon.