A deep dive into the current state and future of V8 engines in pickups, exploring whether they're truly dead or making a comeback. The hosts discuss reliability issues with modern V6 turbos versus traditional V8s, especially focusing on Ford, GM, Ram, and Toyota trucks. They analyze sales trends, engine performance, hybrid options, and the impact of fuel prices. The episode also touches on aftermarket modifications, diesel engines, and the challenges of electrification. Personal opinions on ideal powertrains and the value of older V8 trucks versus newer models add a practical perspective to the technical discussion.
( https://www.alltfl.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts!
In this special anniversary episode, Andre and Roman celebrate six years of the podcast by tackling one of the most controversial questions in the truck world: Is the V8 dead, or is it making a comeback? The duo breaks down the shifting landscape of powertrain technology, from the "million-mile" reputation of Toyota’s old V8s to the high-tech, high-torque reality of modern turbocharging and hybridization.
The conversation gets heated as they compare real-world reliability and performance. Andre shares a harrowing viewer story about a catastrophic V8 failure on the highway, sparking a debate on whether the "simpler is better" philosophy still holds true. They dive into the data on Ford’s EcoBoost dominance, the surprising torque numbers coming from GM’s 2.7L TurboMax, and the "tanker for electrons"—the Mack MD Electric.
( http://www.patreon.com/tflcar ) Visit our Patreon page to support the TFL team!
"[8.9s] [SPEAKER_01]: Our V8 engines and trucks dead or back or back and growing.
[16.6s] [SPEAKER_01]: What's the answer?"
A V8 engine is a type of car engine that has eight cylinders shaped like a V. It helps trucks and cars go fast and have strong power.
A V8 engine is an internal combustion engine with eight cylinders arranged in a V configuration. It is commonly used in trucks and performance cars for its balance of power and smoothness.
"[34.9s] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we have to talk about the twin turbo B6, which is you know Ford unveiled 15 years ago my friend, but before we get to that.
[44.0s] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, let's talk about the news But before we get to that, what else we can talk about?"
Twin turbo means a car engine has two devices that push extra air inside to make the engine stronger and faster.
Twin turbo refers to an engine setup that uses two turbochargers to increase power and efficiency by forcing more air into the engine. This setup can reduce turbo lag and improve performance.
""There's, I think, a class action lawsuit, or there is some kind of a recal, there's a recal. Well, there's a recal, and this oil is a remedy, right?""
A recall happens when a car company finds a problem with a car or part that could be unsafe. They ask owners to bring the car in to fix it for free.
A recall is an official request by a manufacturer to return a vehicle or component to fix a safety-related defect or non-compliance with regulations. It often involves repairs, replacements, or software updates at no cost to the owner.
""Also, we've had issues, of course, and this is very well known, cylinder deactivation. Yes, that is cause. And yet that force cylinder Andre just keeps trucking along...""
Cylinder deactivation means the engine turns off some of its cylinders when you don't need full power, saving gas. But sometimes it can cause problems if it doesn't work right.
Cylinder deactivation is a technology that shuts down some of an engine's cylinders under light load conditions to improve fuel efficiency. It can sometimes cause reliability concerns or rough running if not well implemented.
""So turbochargers are bad. Yeah, exactly turbochargers are bad. And we have found that over time the not only are they more powerful, more torquey, but probably less problematic than V8s.""
A turbocharger helps an engine make more power by pushing extra air into it. Newer turbo engines can be strong and last a long time.
A turbocharger is a device that forces more air into an engine's combustion chamber, increasing power and efficiency. Modern turbocharged engines often produce more torque and can be more reliable than some older naturally aspirated V8s.
""So if you know, Toyota had one of the most venerable V8s in the, the five seven yeah yeah that was that was a million mile motor... Tim also interviewed him second time. So the first time he had an older Tundra, like a 2007 model, and then he got a different V8 Tundra Also two million miles with a five seven.""
The Toyota 5.7 V8 is a big engine used in some Toyota trucks. It's famous for lasting a very long time, sometimes over a million miles.
The Toyota 5.7 V8 is a large displacement V8 engine known for its durability and longevity, commonly found in trucks like the Toyota Tundra. It has a reputation as a 'million mile motor' for its reliability over very high mileage.
""...that was a million mile motor or the four six the four six both of them or yeah yeah remember that got the story we did about that guy those four six right that had that that was a previous generation yes...""
The Toyota 4.6 V8 is an older V8 engine used in Toyota trucks. It is strong and lasts a long time but isn't as powerful as the 5.7 V8.
The Toyota 4.6 V8 is an earlier generation V8 engine used in some Toyota trucks and SUVs. It is also known for good durability but is less powerful than the 5.7 V8.
Car
Toyota Twin Turbo V6
""And I'm of course referring to the fact that the Toyota Twin Turbo V6 has not had a stellar or a generation, right? I mean, replacing now the second batch of 100,000 is that right? Yeah, so they're up to about 220,000 engines now that they said, within their recall that they're going to replace because they're also basically kind of destroying themselves.""
Toyota's Twin Turbo V6 is a newer engine with two turbochargers to make it powerful and efficient. But some of these engines have had problems and needed fixing under recall.
The Toyota Twin Turbo V6 is a modern V6 engine with twin turbochargers designed to provide strong performance and efficiency. However, it has faced reliability issues leading to recalls and engine replacements.
"Yeah, and to be fair, I think Toyota has done the right thing by actually replacing the entire engine. I'm not saying GM's not doing the right thing by changing the oil, but if I owned one of those two trucks, and there was potential for catastrophic failure, I would rather have the entire engine replaced."
Sometimes, if a truck's engine is broken badly, the whole engine is taken out and a new one is put in instead of fixing just small parts.
Engine replacement refers to swapping out a vehicle's entire engine, often due to severe mechanical failure or defects, rather than repairing individual components.
"Remember when Ford came out with the 27 and 35 ECO boost? Yeah, well, I think this was when we're kind of Right before we launched the truck channel you even but you already had the TFL car channel, right? And we were kind of at the forefront of this."
EcoBoost engines are smaller but use a turbocharger to help them make more power while using less fuel than bigger engines.
EcoBoost is Ford's brand name for turbocharged, direct-injection gasoline engines designed to deliver better fuel efficiency and performance compared to traditional larger displacement engines.
"Because the coyote arrived, the five-liter arrived into the truck, and the F-150, and also the EcoBoost. That was a huge controversy, right?"
The Coyote V8 is a type of big engine made by Ford that gives trucks and cars a lot of power and is known to be reliable.
The Coyote V8 is a 5.0-liter naturally aspirated V8 engine produced by Ford, known for its use in performance cars and trucks like the F-150. It is praised for its power and reliability.
"I guess it is surprising because you would think when we look at the comments in our videos and we talk to people everybody loves the V8 with their pickup truck and yet only a third of forwards are actually"
A V8 is a type of engine with eight cylinders shaped like a V. It makes a lot of power and sounds strong, which many people like in trucks.
A V8 engine is an internal combustion engine with eight cylinders arranged in a V configuration. It is known for producing strong power and a distinctive sound, often favored in pickup trucks for towing and performance.
"And then the factory, or the OEM, the manufacturer, they have their own agenda, right?"
OEM means the company that actually makes the car or its parts, not the dealer or other companies.
OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer, referring to the company that produces the vehicles or parts, as opposed to dealers or aftermarket suppliers.
"So there's more and more, you know, hybrid F-150s and V6 twin turbo, they have two engines there, right?"
A hybrid uses both a gas engine and an electric motor to help save fuel and pollute less.
A hybrid powertrain combines an internal combustion engine with an electric motor to improve fuel efficiency and reduce emissions while maintaining performance.
"there's one easy way to do it either a turbocharger or a supercharger, and I, or a electrification, you can also do that way."
Electrification means adding electric parts to a car's engine to help it run better or even replace the gas engine.
Electrification in vehicles refers to using electric motors and batteries to assist or replace traditional internal combustion engines, improving efficiency and performance.
"we actually went to a couple of dealers and said hey, are you interested in buying this and one of them actually came back to us and said they give us less money because we actually put forward F-150 LEDs on it Which are great by the way."
LED lights are bright and use less energy than regular lights, so many trucks use them to see better at night.
LED lights are energy-efficient lighting technology used in vehicles for better illumination and durability compared to traditional bulbs.
"we actually went to a couple of dealers and said hey, are you interested in buying this and one of them actually came back to us and said they give us less money because we actually put forward F-150 LEDs on it... And when we went to go sell it, or we went to go trade it in, it would have been worth exactly $0 more."
Trade-in value is how much money a dealer will give you for your old car when you want to buy a new one.
Trade-in value is the amount a dealership offers for a vehicle when a customer trades it in towards the purchase of another vehicle.
"And the same thing was true if we had put that supercharge on it. So we could have spent at least $12,000 supercharging it. And when we went to go sell it, or we went to go trade it in, it would have been worth exactly $0 more."
Supercharging means adding a part to your engine to make it stronger, but it can be expensive and might not help you sell the car for more later.
Supercharging a vehicle involves adding a supercharger to increase engine power by forcing more air into the engine, but it can be costly and may not increase resale value.
"he's always lifting his trucks and I'm like you could put 10 k into your truck and lift it or 15 k ... bigger wheels and tires, bigger tires, you know, because we put it on 37's. What else do we do? Oh, side steps."
A lifted truck is a truck that has been raised higher off the ground by changing its suspension or body. This helps it drive better over rough ground and fit bigger tires.
A lifted truck is a pickup truck that has been modified to increase its ride height, usually by installing a suspension lift or body lift. This modification allows for larger wheels and tires and improves off-road capability but can affect ride quality and resale value.
"You get the rat now tell him what happened with the ram 2,500 that we put these incredible AEV parts on like Tell you when the worst. ... So beautiful bumpers, AV bumpers."
AEV is a company that makes strong and durable parts to upgrade trucks and SUVs for off-road use, like bumpers and suspension parts.
AEV (American Expedition Vehicles) is a specialty company known for producing high-quality aftermarket parts and accessories for trucks and SUVs, including bumpers, suspension components, and other off-road equipment.
"That's for the whole electric truck. That's too door-only."
An electric truck is a truck that runs on electricity instead of gas or diesel. It uses batteries to power the motor, which helps reduce pollution.
An electric truck is a pickup truck powered entirely or primarily by electric motors using battery power instead of a traditional internal combustion engine. Electric trucks are gaining popularity due to environmental concerns and advances in battery technology.
"The manufacturers combined now with Honda have taken a hundred billion, isn't B right off when it comes to their electrification."
Honda is a company from Japan that makes cars and motorcycles. They are working on making electric cars and trucks.
Honda is a Japanese automotive manufacturer known for producing cars, motorcycles, and power equipment. They have been involved in electrification efforts and partnerships to develop electric vehicles.
""...420 horsepower and 570 pound feet of torque, that's humongous numbers, dude.""
Horsepower is a way to measure how strong a car's engine is. More horsepower usually means the car can go faster or pull heavier loads.
Horsepower is a unit of measurement that indicates the power output of an engine. It reflects how much work the engine can do over time, influencing a vehicle's acceleration and top speed.
""...420 horsepower and 570 pound feet of torque, that's humongous numbers, dude.""
Torque is the force that helps a truck or car start moving and pull heavy things. More torque means the vehicle can tow or carry heavier stuff.
Torque measures the twisting force an engine produces, which affects a vehicle's ability to accelerate and tow heavy loads. It is especially important in trucks and towing applications.
"But as far as all the current manufacturers, we're talking about Ford GM, Ram Toyota they certify their engines on 87 octane right..."
Ford is a big car company from America that makes trucks and cars. Their trucks are very popular and sold a lot.
Ford is a major American automotive manufacturer known for its popular pickup trucks like the F-Series, which are among the best-selling vehicles in the U.S.
"Yeah, yeah Yeah, and once again, we're only talking about full size half times when I'm talking about heavy duty trucks So same question is before if you're buying a GM pick up full size what power train when you get"
Full-size pickup trucks are big trucks that can carry heavy stuff and pull trailers. They usually have strong engines to help with tough jobs.
Full-size pickup trucks are large trucks designed for heavy-duty tasks, towing, and hauling. They typically have powerful engines like V8s and offer spacious cabins.
"Which is a lot, which is the same as a 6-2v8 in the GM, and the torque is even better, 469 pound feet of torque, but they have a higher output version also, 540 horsepower."
The 6.2 V8 is a type of engine size used in some trucks made by GM. It helps the truck have a lot of power to do tough jobs or go fast.
The 6.2 V8 is a gasoline engine displacement size commonly used in General Motors trucks and performance vehicles. It is known for delivering strong horsepower and torque figures.
"Yeah, I saw an engine where it went and the whole Engine was basically cracked the whole block is what it just sees is in cracks the crack on the block Yeah, it's there's no like it's it's it's real catastrophic failure"
Catastrophic engine failure means the engine breaks down badly and stops working completely, often needing a big repair or replacement.
Catastrophic engine failure refers to a severe and sudden breakdown of an engine, often involving major internal damage that renders the engine unusable.
"And they gave me a little model, plastic model, which shows kind of the airflow, you know, in the wind tunnel and how kind of it pulls back behind the bed and behind the cab. I don't want to spoil your video because there's a video at LTFL. But this is such a cool place because I don't only do they have a wind tunnel enormous."
A wind tunnel is like a big tube where air is blown over a car model to see how the air moves around it. This helps make cars that use less gas and drive better.
A wind tunnel is a testing facility where vehicles or models are exposed to controlled airflow to study aerodynamic properties such as drag and lift. It helps engineers optimize vehicle shapes for better fuel efficiency and stability.
"You also have It's like on a treadmill. Yeah, so they're also equal tires and we have the vehicles the wheels are all wheels are spinning and There is a little bit of a treadmill below the vehicle. So it simulates the running highway or road and the whole table turns So you can have like you can go directly into the wind or side-wind"
Treadmill testing means the car sits on a big moving belt that spins the wheels and moves the car like it's driving on a road. This helps test how the car works without going outside.
Treadmill testing in automotive wind tunnels involves placing a vehicle on a moving belt that simulates road conditions by spinning the wheels and moving the vehicle in place. This allows realistic aerodynamic and mechanical testing without needing to drive on an actual road.
Select text to request an explanation
[SPEAKER_01]: Andre, I have an easy question for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Our V8 engines and trucks dead or back or back and growing.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the answer?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's, that's an interesting question.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think we can unpack the sensor on this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one question for an hour-long discussion, but there is a lot there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this episode, let's do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about kind of where V8's have been.
[SPEAKER_01]: And where they're going, but nerd do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we have to talk about the twin turbo B6, which is you know Ford unveiled 15 years ago my friend, but before we get to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, let's talk about the news But before we get to that, what else we can talk about?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna surprise you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: You like to surprise me?
[SPEAKER_02]: Then we'll talk about the news.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you know this is March mid March, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That we're this was a birthday for the podcast [SPEAKER_02]: We're celebrating six years or I mean we've been doing this well you've been doing it for six years Well, like how I think the first episode was you and I maybe with Nathan.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm a Nathan Yeah, actually Nathan is coming to visit us so after court.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, he's coming here because his daughter is graduating college Oh my gosh, do we feel oh [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll have him in the studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a So we'll have him in the studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a So we'll have him in the studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a So we'll have him in the studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can have a studio.
[UNKNOWN]: We [SPEAKER_01]: the force cylinder turbo in GM's trucks is coming back.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just coming back but with the new generation of Silverados it's actually getting more power.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's already crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually more torquey than the V8.
[SPEAKER_01]: Many re-hates.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, so yes, so first of all, I'm super excited about the upcoming new generation of those trucks, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, according to Mary Barra, the CEO of General Motors, we will see this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometime this year, we will see the 2027, so rather 1500 new truck and also see here at 1500 GMC, a new truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now according to some sources from GMauthority.com and those guys are authority.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they are authority on GM, apparently, I like those guys, they're good work.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so they got a little bit of information from according to them, from a reliable source, that not only is a 2.7 liter turbo force coming back for the new generation of the truck, it's going to get more horsepower and more torque.
[SPEAKER_01]: in those trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be a through line in this podcast on Drake slash video.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then a through line is I think that people have certain ideas that do not line up with facts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I think that's the thrill I let let's start with this news so people think that the V8 is more reliable than a twin turbo V6 or in this case a force lender turbo and yet and yet Andre if you look at the facts [SPEAKER_01]: look at how reliable this force lender has been compared to the six to we could go down a laundry list maybe we should of all the issues the GM six to his had starting with catastrophic failure we just got in which is recently yeah you want to talk about the email we got this week from one of our viewers
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, one of our viewers purchased a recent, I believe this is a 2025 GMC Yukon, I could pull this up right here, and he was driving on a highway at highway speeds, and this Yukon with a 6 to V8.
[SPEAKER_02]: According to him, had a failure, this is a personal story, this is a Yukon, actually a 2023 model, I apologize.
[SPEAKER_02]: So recently he had a recall, they basically changed the oil, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But he had a failure on a highway, according to him, I'm reading this.
[SPEAKER_02]: This wasn't March of 2021.
[SPEAKER_02]: traveling 70 miles an hour and with several of his kids he's got three kids and there was sort of a noise the transmission went into neutral and he had to well he was able to kind of maneuver and kind of get to the shoulder of the highway and stop but the engine did not restart he basically had an engine failure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this has happened before.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's, I think, a class action lawsuit, or there is some kind of a recal, there's a recal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's a recal, and this oil is a remedy, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So depending on what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you see they're changing the oil, or replacing the engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people are saying that the oil replacement is not the ultimate solution.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the whole other podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to get into the specifics of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, we've had issues, of course, and this is very well known, cylinder deactivation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that is cause.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet that force cylinder Andre just keeps trucking along and yet people when they go to buy a truck inherently, look at the force cylinder and things like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So turbochargers are bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly turbochargers are bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have found that over time the not only are they more powerful, more torquey, but probably less problematic than V8s.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it depends on the design, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, design and execution.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and of course, you know, Toyota hasn't had a good time with their V6.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's go there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you know, Toyota had one of the most venerable V8s in the, [SPEAKER_01]: the five seven yeah yeah that was that was a million mile motor or the four six the four six both of them or yeah yeah remember that got the story we did about that guy those four six right that had that that was a previous generation yes so it's a little confusing because there was a four six v eight there was a four seven v eight and then there was a five seven v eight and actually that gentleman [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Tim also interviewed him second time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the first time he had an older Tundra, like a 2007 model, and then he got a different V8 Tundra Also two million miles with a five seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so here we have the exact opposite [SPEAKER_01]: where what people think is actually what's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm of course referring to the fact that the Toyota Twin Turbo V6 has not had a stellar or a generation, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, replacing now the second batch of 100,000 is that right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so they're up to about 220,000 engines now that they said, within their recall that they're going to replace because they're also basically kind of destroying themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and to be fair, I think Toyota has done the right thing by actually replacing the entire engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying GM's not doing the right thing by changing the oil, but if I owned one of those two trucks, and there was potential for catastrophic failure, I would rather have the entire engine replaced.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is of course expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, depends on what the problem is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, the one thing about Toyota is that when they do make a mistake, they do at least according to this.
[SPEAKER_01]: recall they do step up and they do fix their mistakes and I'm not sure that you could say that I'm not trying to disg in here, but I'm not sure the GM has that kind of a record in terms of doing recalls so that there you have kind of the other side of the story where you actually have proof that the VA was much more reliable than the V6 but it gets much more complicated than that it doesn't just stop there so let's keep going down the row of other [SPEAKER_01]: V6s and the one that I think is the most important is because it's so one that actually Introduced the twinter will V6 to pick up trucks and that is forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember when Ford came out with the 27 and 35 ECO boost?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I think this was when we're kind of Right before we launched the truck channel you even but you already had the TFL car channel, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were kind of at the forefront of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember your video.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I filmed one of them as well [SPEAKER_02]: Because the coyote arrived, the five-liter arrived into the truck, and the F-150, and also the EcoBoost.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a huge controversy, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because people are saying, you're not going to take away my V8.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will have it, you know, and everybody hated the V6, everybody hated the EcoBoost, and it kind of Ford stuck with the...
[SPEAKER_01]: technology and they stuck to their guns and do we have numbers on what percentage of forwards our coyotes versus two seven versus three five?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes we do because our good friend Sam from wheel bearing spot care.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's put some numbers to this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah we had recently several months ago we had some data hard data this is based on production right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So production of pick-up [SPEAKER_02]: And for Ford, we have data between 2018 and 2023.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we don't have 2011 numbers, you know, back then was basically a 100% V8, right, before 2011.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in 2018 Ford sold out of all the F-150s they sold, they sold 31%, 31.2% were V8s in 2018.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of I third.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know if that's good or bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's shocking or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it is surprising because you would think when we look at the comments in our videos and we talk to people everybody loves the V8 with their pickup truck and yet only a third of forwards are actually [SPEAKER_01]: I could figure that way and that could be because of a lot of different factors because there's this thing called a dealer in between the factory and the customer and a dealer to a large extent decides what they're going to order for the dealership and that has driven more by profit than I think by customer demand in a lot of cases.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the factory, or the OEM, the manufacturer, they have their own agenda, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if they want to have increased production of this engine or decreased production of another engine, they can incentivize certain trims, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start with Ford before we get to some other manufacturers, because there's also big things happening over at RAM, obviously.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but just a second, so in 2023, so it went from a third of approximately F-150s were V8s in 2018 to about a quarter, about 23 and a half percent in 2023 were V8s.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's still going down, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's more and more, you know, hybrid F-150s and V6 twin turbo, they have two engines there, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: They have the 27 end of course, the 35.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and so I'm going to cut to the chase.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I were buying an F-150 today, and I'd like to get your answer to this question as well, which power train would you purchase, given that they were kind of apples to apples in terms of pricing, which they're not, but let's just say that there is, well, that could be, that could be a winning on time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you could have an XLT versus the platinum.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's say, okay, let's say their Apple's Apple's, which power train would you purchase?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you my answer and I have no doubt about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, keep in mind, we just own the VA tremor for many months, for many months, for a year, basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was a little disappointed in that power train, not, not, I wasn't disappointed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me put it this way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't disappointed.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I had never driven an eco boost, I would have been perfectly happy with the V8 because it sounds fabulous.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was 100% reliable.
[SPEAKER_01]: It drives good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It drives good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds fabulous.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it sounds fabulous.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Andre, and now here's a little caveat, we are at a mile above sea level, and we do have lower air pressure, which means we lose horsepower, especially when we go up the hike.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to make up for that, there's one easy way to do it either a turbocharger or a supercharger, and I, or a electrification, you can also do that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we're in my dithers, no doubt in my mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I were buying an F-150 today, [SPEAKER_01]: the library.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one you own basically because it's got the power on board.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't even think twice about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't even consider the two seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't even look at the V8.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the reasons we looked at the V8 was we thought about supercharging it and then we just couldn't make a business case for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we never did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I apologize for that, but it was just.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's it was on it was not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is for business?
[SPEAKER_01]: For business.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll do the rant.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take it this slide.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of our listeners and viewers like your rant.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is it that when you in this in our case spend seven and a half thousand dollars putting on all kinds of cool-ass lights On to the tremor we actually went to a couple of dealers and said hey, are you interested in buying this and one of them actually came back to us and said they give us less money because we actually put forward F-150 LEDs on it Which are great by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you to those guys for supplying them [SPEAKER_01]: So they because we customized it, they would actually give us less on a trade or on a pure sale than if we had not touched it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the same thing was true if we had put that supercharge on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we could have spent at least $12,000 supercharging it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we went to go sell it, or we went to go trade it in, it would have been worth exactly $0 more.
[SPEAKER_01]: then without a supercharger and even with a for the proved supercharger with the warranty this is not a random supercharger we found on the street right yeah for the proved for performance I had this continuing argument with James and he lives in different world he's a friend of mine and so he's always lifting his trucks and I'm like you could put 10 k into your truck and lift it or 15 k [SPEAKER_01]: And it's gonna cost you more money when you go to sell it because unless you can find that one person who wants that truck the exact way that you lifted it with the exact parts that you put on it with the exact tires that you're wheeling you're gonna get no money back on that and that is another one giving you and the dealer certainly won't tell them they'll look at if I bring two trucks to a dealership and one is this happened with our tell them what happened with our ram I've been talking about tell it
[SPEAKER_01]: You get the rat now tell him what happened with the ram 2,500 that we put these incredible AEV parts on like Tell you when the worst.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean we put not just 10,000 17,000 Don't it was like a two and a half so 20 was like a 15,000 pile of winter something worn not not some like you know [SPEAKER_01]: Harbor freight one.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was like top of the line, you know, the Cadillac of witches.
[SPEAKER_02]: So beautiful bumpers, AV bumpers.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, AV bumpers are super solid because, you know, they don't rest, you know, after a year, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We had the first general after and we split a mini boat when China with a mounting plate with a mounting plate.
[SPEAKER_01]: And within about two and a half hours, it started to rest.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the mountain's really not the way a AV bumpers won't do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, very expensive to purchase and also install because they're pretty heavy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Winch suspension lift, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Bigger wheels and tires, bigger tires, you know, because we put it on 37's.
[SPEAKER_02]: What else do we do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, side steps.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean on and on and on we I mean we add a lot of different as truck yes do we get a penny for that no no And you know the here's the right here's a rampart and I and I work with two dealerships I know these guys so I like them, but here's a crazy part when you go to trade it in it's worthless But when it sits on the lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's even more valuable all the stuff all the sudden that worthless trade in is worth like $10,000 over one that doesn't have it [SPEAKER_01]: But when you bring it in, they're like, no, no one's going to want this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we collect, it's at the front, you know, get your lifted, IV, RAM, and you can put 10K over.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: What the market value is.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my rant, Andre, and I'm sticking to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, so I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you ask me to buy an F-150 today, it will be the hybrid power boost system that, you know, that's what they call it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all day long, because it adds power, you know, what is it?
[SPEAKER_02]: 420 horsepower now?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, by the way, in 2026, which we are in now, they put Roman on the 35 EcoBoost, they put a particulate filter on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're adding, there's another emissions control system now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like a diesel, but this is a gasoline one on the 35, I thought the local, the credit administration was doing the way we thought that before it has gone the other way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, because a manufacturer, like four or others, they plan for this months or years in advance, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't just happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, tomorrow we're going to put a particular one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when the president wakes up and decides, hey, I'm going to do away with this law.
[SPEAKER_01]: that that planning for that law took place like five years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And suppliers work because you have to make those filters.
[SPEAKER_01]: The suppliers were contacted.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Robots were purchased.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Factories were built.
[SPEAKER_01]: Filmed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Factory workers were trained.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: computer systems were put in place.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so even if the president wakes up and says, oh, by the way, no stop start, it's, well, that's easier.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I have to be a software.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a software.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, another ram.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very ranty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, geez.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm listening to all these podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're all these bozos out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm calling you bozos.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to name you, but you are bozos who are out there saying that the president said that K cars are illegal in America.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that news.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, cake cart.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a little cake truck we have.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's legal.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's completely right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently all the bulls always out there who don't do any research or who just read one story have decided that you can now go and buy a K truck or K cart to your heart's delight and go registered at the state.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, by the way, where do you registered?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a county.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the county and the state and what is a president control?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the federal government.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not the county.
[SPEAKER_02]: So by the way, we did a story about this last year, about the year ago, right, because Colorado [SPEAKER_02]: wants to allow K cars and trucks, but that law is going to go in effect in 2027 at the earliest.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the earliest, and so it depends.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is done at the state level.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing that the president said wasn't that K cars are illegal, which is what all the bosos have decided that he said.
[SPEAKER_01]: What he said was that he wanted manufacturers to build K vehicles in America, which makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but somehow that got translated and turned into a different sale.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can go buy one and register it and then Chevy's building the next K truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how that's how that's how they got your answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, there's no American manufacturer or Japanese manufacturer.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to start building K trucks or K cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's going to take them years if they wanted to.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not going to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know how hard it would be to sell a tiny truck in America.
[SPEAKER_01]: How many, how many, you know how slave is trying to do it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but you, you know how hard it will be to sell a tidy truck in America.
[SPEAKER_01]: And slave is a new company because those guys are deep in the truck world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they know a lot about what people want when it comes to trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh, because the timing there couldn't be better, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's for the whole electric truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's too door-only.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's too door-only.
[SPEAKER_02]: With a tiny bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That has a range of 150 for the, and the floss to tax credit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And uh, uh, that, let's see, um, oh yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: The manufacturers combined now with Honda have taken a hundred billion, isn't B right off when it comes to their electrification.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Slay's going to sell a tiny electric truck in America.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be luck with that guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: wish you luck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, don't bother calling us and asking this because apparently you didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a little grumpy and ranty.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's keep going.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where are we?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're back and forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're back and forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're back and forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the options.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so particular filters.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: But still, if you look at the hybrid dude, 420 horsepower and 570 pound feet of torque, that's humongous numbers, dude.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's in power a house.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can power a house with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We powered a house with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And whenever videos power the house, it was like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, if I was buying an F-150, I would definitely go for the hybrid all the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Two more hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The six cylinder is still there, but it's old and it's kind of wimpy.
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem quite honestly with the coyote, which I love, especially the Mustang, love it in the Mustang.
[SPEAKER_01]: the problem with it is it just doesn't have the power that the turbos do and that's just an altitude even not a we told a pretty heavy trailer with it and i was white knuckle i think it was what seven and a half eight thousand pounds and i was pretty white knuckles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not because of the chassis, but because the truck just didn't have the oomph to like get me out of the way of accidents or to accelerate, it was working very hard, very hard, maybe too hard, whereas the thing about I think towing, and what makes it so...
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go with tiring, is that you're always in the moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like writing a motorcycle.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got this big load behind you, and you know that potentially you can jackknife on you, or it starts to sway a little bit, and there are people in cars or a zipping around you, and then there are big trucks that you have to pass.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you don't just sit back, and listen to a podcast when you're telling, and kind of zone out, you are in the moment, this should be in the moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're driving.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're driving.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then that also makes a fun, [SPEAKER_01]: doing something real, but it also makes it extremely stressful, extremely tiring, and to make it a little bit less stressful, it's nice when you have a truck that performs, and makes that job feel and seem easy, and with the V8, at least when you get up, I'd say over seven, seven and a half, and that truck will tow 10.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you get up to the top of that limit, you really start to see where it's becoming maxed out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I say, like, if I given it my dithers, if I had to tow something, that's how it is home.
[SPEAKER_01]: 6,000 pound thing to California, I would still take our Dura Max.
[SPEAKER_02]: which is a big truck because well because that's V8 to make that power it has to rev up right so 4,000 and even though the sound is not horrible I mean it's a nice V8 sound if you're listening to that sound for minutes or hours and on and on and on on your trip I mean it gets tiring after and after a while [SPEAKER_01]: And now that we're living through another gas spike crisis, I don't know, we don't know where we're going yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think fuel economy is also becoming important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, of course, the old saying with the Ford EcoBoost is you can have eco or you can have boost.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't have both, but with the VA, you certainly don't get eco.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not much anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you could help with transmissions, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: At least there's a whiff of the ECO in the US.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, boost.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's call it that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But hey, a hybrid has a possibility.
[SPEAKER_02]: We recently tested that hybrid, you know, F-150 versus the rest of half-tons, and it was remarkably efficient on our Denver 100 loop.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got 29 MPG.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I blew my mind I thought it's still I'm still flabbergasted by this yeah, and I think I think a lot of [SPEAKER_01]: truck buyers specifically have been put off by the word hybrid, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's there's that sense out there like, you know, you can take the VAA off my dead cold hands, you know, and so the word hybrid, why would I want any of that, you know, and I don't mean to be doing this other accent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I should do it like a my accent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's Chicago [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Chicago, Chicago, Chicago, I can't do it Chicago.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I lost most of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But why would you add hybridization or electrification to a vehicle and make it in their minds less reliable, unless fun, unless gutsy, when you don't have to, but with the fuel prices squeaking their way up on drain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're at like, I just bought premium fuel because a lot of engines don't need premium.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's one of the cheaper places you could buy it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe it was for the market.
[SPEAKER_01]: I forget which one I was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you bring up an interesting question, Roman.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because a lot of turbo engines, they do like their premium fuel.
[SPEAKER_02]: They do, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But as far as all the current manufacturers, we're talking about Ford GM, [SPEAKER_02]: Ram Toyota they certify their engines on 87 octane right so you it you won't hurt your engine by running 87 octane You could gain a little bit of performance right by by going to premium economy and fuel economy by going to those higher Octane fuels 91 or 93 octane if you have it But you won't hurt your engine going 87 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, let's take another little side, a little side by here, and the side road, side road, and that is for a while there, there was this push toward decals in full-size trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like I have a duties.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, not having, oh yes, those are very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are all decals, almost.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like that wave has broken on the rocks of reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for a long time people were very excited to be able to have that diesel option in their full size or half ton trucks and then the reality of like what it takes to do that where you have to have DEF.
[SPEAKER_01]: at high maintenance cost and high initial purchase cost so i'm not sure what's do we have a take rate on uh anybody else's truck line up like specifically yeah we have we haven't let's see what GM let's go let's switch let's switch we're like half hour into this let's go to GM the other big gorilla in the room [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so, in fact, you know, if you look at GMC plus Chevy, I mean they sell more trucks, pick up trucks and anybody else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so, couple things here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, we still have the same time scale between 2018 and 2023, and there are three liter DeRamax was introduced, right, within that time period, about 2019 to 2020.
[SPEAKER_02]: and their three-liter diesel share went from nothing in 2018, obviously, to listen to this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Almost 13% of their trucks in 2023 were three-liter turbo diesel.
[SPEAKER_02]: This we still talking about half-ton only, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Only they not have a duty.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now, I think it's even higher, it's probably approaching 20%.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's a good chunk, but they're alone now, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Ford went away from a three-liter diesel, ram went away from their diesel, their eco diesel engines.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think GM is enjoying [SPEAKER_02]: that kind of they're the only game in town.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if Ram went away from the diesel or if the customers ran fast and far from the diesel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's some recalls.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's some problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's some problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then they had a fix which made the engine actually worse in terms of horsepower and fuel and response.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when the customers said, oh, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: So GM is still kind of pushing the diesel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're approaching like 15% ish, I would imagine.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're the last man standing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: But listen to this.
[SPEAKER_02]: As of 2023, GM have done truck V8 share was 62%.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're V8's different V8 options.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're doubling down on V8's.
[SPEAKER_02]: But for 2027, they're redesigning their V8 engines.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're making a bigger [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yeah, so they're going up what the 5 2s become the 5 the 5 3 becomes the 5 7 3 50 Chevy and the 6 2 becomes a 6 6 6 6.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah Yeah, and once again, we're only talking about full size half times when I'm talking about heavy duty trucks So same question is before if you're buying a GM pick up full size what power train when you get [SPEAKER_02]: So, interesting, so you and I also did a story this week about the diesel engines and heavy duty trucks, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was doing a lot of research about the upcoming mega-max and the upcoming eight-liter power stroke diesels, which are not really real, just rumors.
[SPEAKER_02]: I figured out that personally speaking, I would not buy a diesel truck, personally speaking.
[SPEAKER_01]: by and blown.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is a man who started a TFL with a Dermax, with a Dermax 66.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why would you buy it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, because my personal use case, I commute from work to home, which is about 20 miles one way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I go to the airport and home, which is about 10 miles one way.
[SPEAKER_02]: You go to your parents and I see my parents, excuse me about 20 miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but I only tow personally speaking, not for work, not when I'm doing eye gauntlets, but personally speaking, I tow about five times a year.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for those use cases, I don't want to invest into higher maintenance costs of a diesel engine, but you know, DF fluid costs, I mean, because it's not insignificant, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it could be significant costs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you can't ask.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to buy jugs and or find a reliable source for DF fluid.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always go to, I go to Sam's club and they have inexpensive DF, but I always forget to buy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I feel bad about the fact that then I run out and I got to go get it to go back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I just get it to Gastys because I need it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's more expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like way more.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like two eggs.
[SPEAKER_01]: What it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm mad on myself today for God.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it also comes in a plastic jug that is inside of a cardboard container with that stupid spout that like, [SPEAKER_01]: Man, it's just a good D if everywhere, but into that little hole next to that next to the diesel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you try to think, where should I recycle all this stuff?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, where should I put it?
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that's all part is it makes that funny blurgling sound when you go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go [SPEAKER_02]: That's a best part of the serum, but I would not buy a Duramax 3O, unfortunately speaking.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, so that, I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't get that either.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Tim had that experience, and I think a lot of truck guys and girls are diesel curious, and they don't want to have a duty, so this was one way to get into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of the day, I think they found that, like you said, the expense and the maintenance and the downside outweighs the upside.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and you can't also get these love everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's another problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but it's, I mean, it's better.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then what it was, you know, 10, 20 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: But still, you know, like there's a gas station I like to go to at the Sam's Club.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time I go there, there's some like, I don't guess they allow this, but there's some like giant commercial dump truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, because it's cheaper, and that's how you pull the 200 gallon tank.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the commercial, like the big truckstops, they have big nozzles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and these are smaller nozzles.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are like car-sized nozzles.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the guys in there for like 20 minutes, and I'm like, oh, for guys sake.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, dude, but if my use case was either driving very long distances, let's say I was, you know, I don't know, maybe a contractor where I have to go many, many miles every single day and just continue to drive my truck or pulling trailers or I would go through, but I personally wouldn't because that's not my use case.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, we've owned the five, three, remember we had the trail boss.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, with a 10-speed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's where I would go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might go there too.
[SPEAKER_01]: The force cylinder.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the force cylinder as an around town truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I owned it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: For you, my Colorado, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The same turbo max engine, two points.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still have it in the canyon.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the canyon, currently we have it as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in it, fine engine, but it's a little coarse, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not as pleasing to drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got the least towing, I think, as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, of course, in the half time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so as I wouldn't go to seven as an around town truck I think I get it, but if you wanted to do all truck I think the six two doesn't get you that much more than the five three and it's got all those issues So I think for me it would be the five three right now if I were buying a gym [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I would agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't go sxtoo, not because it was having issues, but because it's just probably too much for my use case.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still feel supposed to use it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also good.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also as more expensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would stay five, three.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're redesigning it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now I'm really curious about that, you know, 350 cubic inch Chevy, it's coming back in the truck with a five, seven, so I'm really curious about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there you go, there's a recommendation for GM, but the way they don't want to don't have a twin turbo Correct, they don't have anything equivalent to Ford or even RAM, which is next, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But before we move on to as of 2023 the two seven turbo max was about a quarter of their big truck sales for half-tons So that's pretty impressive actually [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, so it's better than the diesel it's doing better, so so and now they're apparently even increasing the horsepower Do we know if they're gonna stick with the diesel going into the next gen or are they gonna get rid of it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me check GM authority, hold on [SPEAKER_02]: Hey guys, the good work.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, GM authority didn't say anything, but I think they are continuing.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK, so the diesel, their soldiers on, their soldiering on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, she was switched to Ram.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Ram was interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could have your engine in configurations as long as it was a straight six.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... hurtable hurricane either in a low output or high output form right so what was the horse what's the horse power in the low output versus high output uh... we don't say low output right now put our ever sorry still and so sorry we don't say low output uh... so the standard output the standard output is for twenty
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is a lot, which is the same as a 6-2v8 in the GM, and the torque is even better, 469 pound feet of torque, but they have a higher output version also, 540 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well hold on, 4 hells was a higher put version in the Raptor of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only for 15.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so small.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they also have the, they also have the, uh, wrapped our, okay, that, that's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're 700.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, but, but I think the new three leaders, straight in line, sixes are super smooth.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're very quiet.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're very powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so far, there wasn't a lot of serious recalls about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hit everybody want to have me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everybody had to, everybody had to get this kid's brought it back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so last year they sold what 10,000 you said?
[SPEAKER_01]: Ish, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he said they're going to sell 100,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're going to produce, they're going to try to sell 100,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do these this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, look, I like to have me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll get to the butts because there are a lot of butts, so I think the Hemi has got to be one of the best branding exercises and all of truck them and an engine them because people believe that that is the superman engine that that engine is just well [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of originated in the 60s and the 70s, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Far and above everything else, which is good for you, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you've got such a strong brand, but here's the butt, it's old.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have the current.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not very powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: The current 5'7 hemmy originates like 20 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not very powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what 3.
[SPEAKER_01]: 3.95.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not as powerful as some of the bigger V8s.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's powerful as I output her cane.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you that.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, not at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and it's very thirsty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not as bad as a V8 Tundra.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but it's in that case.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in that realm of urine the teens.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think people have forgotten those three things and all they remember, which is fine is the glorious engine note, which is potentially the best for the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, when you, when you, when you uncan open on cork on cork, [SPEAKER_01]: There is nothing better than the sound of that Hemie VA, but in terms of, you know, all the other things, like the stuff that's left-brain, like you're gonna have to go look at your pump, you know, you're gonna have to toast up with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And those nut e-torx system is not helping much.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, so that means we own one, remember E-torx?
[SPEAKER_01]: 2019.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is still on this list.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so if you're an engineer, you've got two choices.
[SPEAKER_01]: if you want to add a little electric helper to your V8.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could do it the elegant way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm using the word elegant, which is you take an electric motor, and you sandwich it in between of the internal combustion engine and the transmission.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that it elegantly adds power.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does things like when you're shifting, it makes up for that little torque loss in between shifts.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it makes for smoother or you could shut down the engine all together.
[SPEAKER_01]: or you could stick it on top of the engine and drive it with a belt with a belt which seems less elegant.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also supposed to help you with the shifting and the start stop engine technology that everybody hates.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you're driving the belt.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can't stop the engine and the whole point is you want better efficiency.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you do shut down your main engine and use a little electric motor, that's supposed to help you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It kind of feels like [SPEAKER_01]: hybridization became a thing with Toyota, and I think back in the day, and I'm not talking that long ago, Ram kind of got caught with their technological pants, not quite done up, and so they quickly went to market to compete with the rest of the industry, and they came up with kind of this bandade, which is basically slap an electric motor to the belt system of the V8 and call it good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think it does a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure it actually adds.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it hurts a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think it adds a lot [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there was some reliability issues with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were reliability issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's kind of a double whammy, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't helping a lot and it created some issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it became known as not very just not good, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because in the public's eye.
[SPEAKER_01]: How much horsepower did I have to remember?
[SPEAKER_01]: Zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, how much?
[SPEAKER_01]: Ha ha ha.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's the point?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you want to ask me?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the point?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, do you have this thing on top of the engine if it's as zero horsepower can kick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, how about this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you run without ever turning the engine on?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's moved out out of stop starts.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when you pulled up, there you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, or you have the battery, right, as you have a small battery, a tiny little battery But it also didn't add a lot of cost.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's on the flip side and the e-torx system is very affordable And I like the for-buy system.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't add a lot a lot of reliability issues So you don't say that term for-buy [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we should be happy that they went with E-tork instead of four by so anyways, so I think out of the trucks and we'll get to Toyota in a second right the same question Oh, we change in yeah, so so we agree you know I agree the F-150 hybrid, yeah [SPEAKER_01]: 5, 3, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V, V
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, standard output hurricane for me the high output all day all you high yeah But but it's only available in a more fancy truck so you're long horn or you're you're tungsten How about the back of your a standard standard only or like so you will no So you will have to step up.
[SPEAKER_02]: No [SPEAKER_02]: So, that's why I was saying three O standard for me because even though I loved it, don't get me wrong, I loved it 57, but the for smoothness and the power and everything else, efficiency, three O standard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I'm not that fancy.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I am.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, and if you turn that thing, the only downside is, [SPEAKER_01]: BMW builds a really good straight six also three leaders also that sounds really good The ramth straight six.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's I would be some it's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not it's like well you just drove a three-liter charger [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: It depends.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you like more of that gutteral, like, deep, a bassoon, rumble, or do you like more of the screaming, Ferrari is formula 1 is, you know, that's really different.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you like that more high pitch, flat crank, flat plain crank sound, then that's very much a straight.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's something, or if you like the more Harley, like, you know, like, my heartbeat is, [SPEAKER_01]: getting faster and faster as I push the accelerator both for real and with the engine note then that's what you like.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're both it's like it's like the steam ray versus the zeosix.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're very different power trains and they're both delightful in their own way and just depends what you like.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if it was only for engine note I get the heavy but I would definitely get the high output hurricane just because it's so much power.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I just drove, I was just in Detroit recently with a couple of weeks back, and I had that tungsten, that really fancy RAM 1500.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even though the truck is heavier, right, because it's got the massaging seats and the panoramic sunroof, and in the leather on every surface, that engine is unmistakable.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that truck jumps off the line, just like an electric truck, what, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not electric, but that engine just makes it so powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we're split on that, but it's just it probably is still turbo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're still still in turbo.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we're running out of time, but we still have another let's say if it's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but let's head over to our friends at Toyota.
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's something interesting, and I want to get you take on this because this directly affects you, my man.
[SPEAKER_01]: No way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, directly, directly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was talking to Grant who does all of our ad sales.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, if you want to sponsor this podcast, we'd love to have you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because currently we're sponsored by you, our listener.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, our Patreon members.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: You make this possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you want to be part of a six year old podcast, [SPEAKER_01]: It's turning six.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, contact us at it's more like six and dog years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it feels like You know here's another thing I heard right I read a story recently that that whole dog your thing is Out the window right the I'm not supposed to say that no, no, no, no, no You can still say it, but the the idea behind it is completely wrong and they There's a point you can make because it's not linear exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so one year I ironically or [SPEAKER_01]: Currently people believe that one human year is equal to seven dog years given how long dogs live and given how long we live And that's the number I've been going with so our dog is five which will make him 35 mid-mid-mid-lage is sure But when you think about it this way and this is what the point of the story was [SPEAKER_01]: A human at the age of seven certainly can't have a baby and you get a dog at the age of one, which would translate to human year seven, is ready to have kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what the...
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not linear.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, what the scientist did was that they figured out that it's not linear that initially dogs age much quicker, and then as they get older, they slow down their aging.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's more of a, you know, a steep curve and then the curve gets junkler as a age And so it kind of maintain the same level.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that's me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm so I'll take that for what it's worth So similar to our podcast We're aging.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I interrupted you.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's what's about what about Grant?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah So this is what Grant told me.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said they're right now in the use market I use Tundra with the six cylinder V6 [SPEAKER_01]: is worth less than your tundra with the old B8 that is true.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also saw this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this true?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is absolutely so locally.
[SPEAKER_01]: So tell much when you have and then tell them what we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: So and I also did the video about related to this because I did the video and I used Auto Tempest data.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay for this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you Auto Tempest.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thank you because they are one of our sponsors.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not in the fact that it's not [SPEAKER_02]: for the podcast to talk to you for our video.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they're great.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I saw locally at Mountain States Toyota, which is a dealership, not far away from us.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to love about our tempest.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can just do a search for everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or something very specific.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, no, I mean, like you can search all, you can even see a search, I think Craigslist on it, if you just, yeah, which is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: It links to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that's wonderful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so if you're doing a very specific search, but that's an example.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a place to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you and I liked the hybrid for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: but you can cert specifically F-150 hybrid power train and it will give you every, you know, search engine out there in one place.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Tassau.
[SPEAKER_02]: So tell me what truck you have.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a 2019 V8 Tundra.
[SPEAKER_01]: T-R-D Pro.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: In that cool blue, voodoo blue, voodoo blue.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I looked up several other vehicles like 2022, you know, those are the new generation V6 countries, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So 2022, 2023.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my truck with more miles is the same price or more valuable than those new V6 trucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just thought that locally.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ta-da, you could do it at our local dealer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yes, but you know what I think my truck is losing a little bit right now because the fuel went up and Look at the fuel coming are you getting it really Between 14 and 15.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, welcome to the honey world.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so that's that whole generation also the Nissan that's poor Yeah, that's poor a kind of yeah So anyway, so those older V8 Tundras are holding their power selling it [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't get excited about my next track, so Andre found an old four diesel that he was thinking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: I found a 2014 power stroke for 28,000, which was probably high, yeah, but I could negotiate a hundred and eighty one thousand and then diesel went through the roof.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and also I realized that, you know, I have to be careful about my particular filter system, make sure I drive it enough, and it doesn't get clogged, and then the EGR system, and then I did a 180 basically, and I wanted to be able to, like, not wanting one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the period of one weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that because of diesel prices?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was because my research is because these are here at least in college.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like five bucks a gallon Yeah, yeah, it is well that has something to do with it anyways, so [SPEAKER_01]: We're worried.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're at a point where because people, this is a through line I was telling you about, people believe that the V8 is so much better than at everything, at everything that the older V8 tundras are worth more, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in that case reason is because of the result and the new ones are recalled.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a net that story just keeps ticking along.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure we still have gotten the full story from two to Why tapping they say it's because of the process of Man you factoring the engines and that they somehow got the brain them on the shavings But there've been a lot of people were saying that there is actually parts of the engine that are breaking down when they're being used So what we do know like I said is a Toyota is replacing them and I think if I had a Tundra [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the other thing that's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if I had a tundra with a replaced engine [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's more valuable than one without a replace engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not getting recalled.
[SPEAKER_01]: But most people don't think about it that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people think that one set engine goes and that they've taken it to the dealer.
[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of want to wash their hands of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people are like, just replace my engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I don't trust this thing anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can see that because I can see my stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's like having a major surgery.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you could get a brand new leg.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not as good as the old leg, [SPEAKER_01]: We're better not having a brand new leg.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you need a brand new leg anyway?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you see when I'm saying people kind of watch their hands on it and you're done with it?
[SPEAKER_01]: And they dump them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'll give you an example.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to go way out of the truck world.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we bought this just out of circumstance.
[SPEAKER_01]: We bought this 2003 Porsche 911 from a gentleman who was selling it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the 2003, the 996 generation, I'm not going to go too far off the old car chat.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had this issue with the IMS bearing intermediate chaff bearing and when that when that goes It really goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I saw an engine where it went and the whole Engine was basically cracked the whole block is what it just sees is in cracks the crack on the block Yeah, it's there's no like it's it's it's real catastrophic failure not like [SPEAKER_01]: we should talk about what happens when the gm engine fails.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of clever.
[SPEAKER_01]: The the the the V8 apparently this guy See mail he said that one because I was wondering if the wheels locked up, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like like for stoppins locked up when he Wonder region like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Max was going around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, in the last Grand Prix in the Australian Grand Prix where he did it 180 because but the GM puts you a neutral [SPEAKER_01]: And so continuously, yeah, it's close to you can actually pull over, yeah, it's supposed to like, you know, having, like, like, what that with Max, anyway, so this is a known issue in the 911, let's go back to that and this happened to this guy at 40,000 miles and the, which was how many years ago, like, many years ago, right, the car has 80,000, so half, half, it's like, yeah, and Porsche at that time spent $20,000 and I've got the receipt to replace the engine under warranty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, to me, I would rather have now you have a new or engine and I have one where the IMS issue was sorted because it would didn't replace it with the same engine with the same IMS, I think they figured out that you're having problems, certainly by the 997 ish, maybe the 997.2 they figured it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, I feel very confident about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the same thing happens actually when you replace the engine in the tundra I feel like you get you know an older truck but a brand new engine and that's a good thing But I think a lot of people psychologically are like, hey, I'm done with this bad boy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just get it out of here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I you know [SPEAKER_01]: The one thing I have figured out of for doing this for so long is that you only get one chance to make a first impression in the automotive world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, for good or bad, you can go back or you can fix stuff, but once you, once you, having said that on Jay, Tundra's are selling higher than ever, so maybe I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, actually, I think Tacoma is selling.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not too high as Debra, but Tundra's sales have slowed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have they really?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought they were like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: the Tacoma is booming.
[SPEAKER_02]: But not Tundra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's two out of four yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So which country are we doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: The one with the replaced engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's where you're going.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where I'm going.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the Tundra I get.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to be fun auto tempers.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could select.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want all Tundras, but only with the replaced engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, I mean, that, that, that, [SPEAKER_01]: Engine replacement is going to transfer to the new owner so if it has a replacement then you got to live with the week that it's out of service or however long And then we should good night.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it could be and then I think the way the total is doing that replacement is and I know this [SPEAKER_01]: I know this, and I can't tell you why I know it, but they actually, I think, figured out which ones are more likely to fail, and so they go, there's this question about the hybrid dungeons, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they're going through their spreadsheet, and they're replacing them more likely ones to fail, which makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if yours is in that batch that is more likely to fail, you're more likely to get replaced first.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas if you're in the queue farther down in terms of its failure rate, then they've kind of figured out what the failure rate is, then you're probably not going to get yours replaced right away.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would buy the one with the replaced engine, go ahead you were saying, well, I guess if I was looking at the Tundra, the new one, I would look at hybrid versus non-hybrid, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but [SPEAKER_02]: Toyota truck hybrids, and this includes that the Kolma and to a large extent, for example, the forerunners and some of the other vehicles on the same kind of hybrid technology.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're thirsty.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not very efficient.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, there's this confusing to me, because Toyota usually known for hybrids are very efficient.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now, it doesn't translate into the truck world, and I know they said it's about power in Yariya.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yariya.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yariya.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I would not get the hybrid for sure because I don't think it's worth the extra money But I don't I want my original heart ramen.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to change.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want the new heart [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so you want, you want to, you don't want to be either going in or doing a hard transplant.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, because if Master Technician Bob is out that day and the non-Master Technician, I don't know, let's say person X is doing the work.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to throw, I don't want to roll the dice.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know, I know that people say that the, [SPEAKER_01]: heart of a truck or car is the engine, but if you were doing it as a real analogy, wouldn't be more like the bow or the stomach.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is that to a power as you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Not the heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you know, you take stuff in.
[SPEAKER_01]: The heart doesn't really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and the transmission is the heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: You take food in and then stuff comes out the back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like a real truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's an exhaust.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so wouldn't the stomach really be the heart so so to speak of a truck You mean the engine will be the stomach and the transmission is the heart.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah Because transmission is actually Translating that energy forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like the heart does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah pumping the anyway Wow, we went deep on that one, but attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we forgot any full-sized trucks We've gone through the entire list well the Nissan we don't have a tight name anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we don't have a tightened and I mean [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we never talked about applications of five, seven, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I always get five, six.
[SPEAKER_01]: See, I always get that wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: No matter what I say with an e-son, I always get it wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that one was also known for being very reliable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we can talk about it because they basically got rid of it in Armada, and they did the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They went to all the people.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they went all turbo all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's, and also they're infinity curx eighties.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we didn't, we didn't touch on what's happening with all electric trucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think for a reason, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you look sick of electric cars because there's sick of them and also it's kind of a separate animal, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you could talk about specifically how Rivian compares to, you know, GM or Tesla or what, what, what not, but, but it's a different conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not what's better to be charging or both in the animal of the world and in the truck world, car world and truck world.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a trend to go from bigger displacement, higher cylinder numbers to lower displacement, turbocharged, or force induced power trains, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where what's upon a time was a V8 that it became V6 or a straight 6, where we had a V6, it became a 4.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that trend, I think, is continuing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we'll see if the Solantus Hemie is a blip, or if it is actually part of a trend where we go back to V8s.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there are a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if Tim is right, who really long for the V8, and who want that V8 powerhouse as another podcast, [SPEAKER_01]: or this guy had a pentastar grand Cherokee and he called in to get some advice and he wanted to trade it on the hemi which I don't think there is a hemi grand Cherokee.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well there was, but I don't know he was right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: No there's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: No there's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not sure there's going to be one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure there is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well because they're investing in their new 2 litre 4 solar in the grand Cherokee.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, which is a small displacement, very high-tech engine, and then for the most part, I think that trend has worked.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure it's worked, for instance, a Jeep.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never loved the two cylinder.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the four cylinder, two liter in the Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there are a lot of smaller vehicles where they've gone to three cylinders.
[SPEAKER_01]: GM has done that in passenger cars and Toyota has done it in [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure that's something that we have to love or lump, but I know for instance that in total world the last four-liter V8 is in the LLC, which is going away.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know, I think if you're going to want the big V8, you're going to have to do it [SPEAKER_02]: But not necessarily, because look, GM is investing in third-of-the-earth reagents.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, GM is really investing in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really investing in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and, you know, in the rest coming back, let's hope to get the reliability right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think the portal come back?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Ford still has the 5-5-0, but it's going down as well, I don't, I don't think they will, but I think they will not get rid of the 5-0, but it's not good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope we don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's great that they're going to be there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll still be there as an option, but it won't be a the main thing that people are buying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, let me ask you this, do you think Ford would have done better with the Raptor?
[SPEAKER_01]: Had they gone with the V8 with the Supercharger?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they did with the Raptor R. I'm saying, because of price-wise, a Raptor R is now gotten so crazy and affordable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you're looking at $120,000?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, officially, it's like $1.14, but dealers are still charging Marcos on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's call it $120.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot of room between that and the base V8 with the factory installed, sorry, dealer installed factory warrant improved.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, improved.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a wipple, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a wipple, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So why can't you have something in between those two that actually comes from the factory?
[SPEAKER_01]: You could.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't that make sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But would that then cannibalize a sale of the Raptor?
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you have like a, no, but why not put like a 50 into the Raptor?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm saying with the supercharger, but then when you can't hold it without it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's what I'm talking about without it, but well, I know, I know it's more and more speed and cork it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or maybe increase it to 6 so so maybe you do the tune that you get in the Mustang because that's 500 almost.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so do like something like that was available.
[SPEAKER_02]: Junior.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Junior.
[SPEAKER_01]: Raptor 8.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that would be hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: What a hey, raptor eight.
[SPEAKER_02]: For, that's a free one.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm sure they thought of it knowing those guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: They thought of every permutation and combination of every engine probably.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the question I have, I don't think it's dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, our VAs dying, really, gliding or the increasing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we have to say that they're probably increasing actually, when you have, if we look at the next year, that's where I'm saying that they're going to sell 100,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we see GM coming back to it, yeah, so it's definitely increasing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for all of you, we'll be able to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't be upset.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't be upset.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you love B.A.'
[SPEAKER_01]: 's, be happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think, honestly, I think what will determine this is the thing that's always determined and that's the price of gas.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's nice when gas was under $3 a gallon to be like, hey, let's bring back the B.A.'
[SPEAKER_01]: 's, yada, yada, yada, yada.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when it's touching $4 or $5, all of a sudden that enthusiasm gets kind of swipe by the hand of reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, where when you go to the gas station, you have to spend, you know, where you have to double swipe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, remember what were those days?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Ford has 36 gallon tanks.
[SPEAKER_02]: So can you imagine that if you have a 36 gallon tank on every F-155 bucks a gallon?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're gonna be triple swiping that thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to know which has like a two-gallon tank There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I missed a days of dual tanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, not practical but cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I have my reserve tank always always always always.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah [SPEAKER_01]: Well guys, thanks for watching, we appreciate, and we'll do an anniversary when Nathan's in town because he has to be part of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to be in the bottom of the month.
[SPEAKER_01]: It might be episode 64.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, dude, we're at 323.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I thought we were at 600.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we're at six years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, six years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, solid 327.
[SPEAKER_01]: Three.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and we'll have Nathan in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what you should do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we'll do a little bit more self-indulgent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe we'll chew the fat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, tell some stories that we have never told from adventures past.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what, oh, you know where Nathan was last weekend where I wish I was at the over the expo.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I know I'm upset.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm upset.
[SPEAKER_01]: I missed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you're going to the next one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Andre is going down to Phoenix Black staff if you guys ask sorry if you're going to Arizona if you're going to be down in Arizona And you want to say hi on TV.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I get some stick and stickers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just ordered some new stickers [SPEAKER_02]: Not enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, you maybe I should order more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember when gas was high and there were all those tickers on the gas pump with a little Biden pointing to and saying, I did this?
[SPEAKER_01]: You think that they'll be one to a Trump pointing to and saying, I did this, the probably should be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that they'll, or is that just, is that spent?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, I'm just, I'm just driving, I haven't seen any, especially in Boulder because Boulder is, you know, Boulder.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been, I've been expecting to see those.
[SPEAKER_01]: Little, little, pointing fingers?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, no, I haven't seen one.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well guys, once again, thanks for watching.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for all our patrons.
[SPEAKER_01]: We really appreciate the fact that you guys are part of this and make it possible because without you, it would be very timely and very expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you make this happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: If they want to join and help support the podcasts, where they go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Patreon.com slash TFL car because that's our only page.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have a separate truck page.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll never change the name.
[SPEAKER_02]: TFL car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And before we wrap up, what's this on Drake?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because this is kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a little model on our table here in the studio.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like somebody took an F-150 and pulled his face back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like F-150 in space, like this, well, so I recently visited the Ford Wind Tunnel facility in Michigan.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they gave me a little model, plastic model, which shows kind of the airflow, you know, in the wind tunnel and how kind of it pulls back behind the bed and behind the cab.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to spoil your video because there's a video at LTFL.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is such a cool place because I don't only do they have a wind tunnel enormous.
[SPEAKER_01]: You also have It's like on a treadmill.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so they're also equal tires and we have the vehicles the wheels are all wheels are spinning and There is a little bit of a treadmill below the vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it simulates the running highway or road and the whole table turns So you can have like you can go directly into the wind or side-wind Yes, so I mean, I was super impressed [SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to see that, head on over to LTFL and we'll see you guys next time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ciao.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
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