Le Mans is a famous long-distance race in France where cars race for about 24 hours. Because the race lasts so long, teams have to plan things like pit stops and fuel carefully.
In endurance races, teams run the car for a while, then stop to refuel. If they refuel after only half as long as usual, they end up stopping at different times than other cars, which changes track position.
“The grid” just means all the race cars competing. If one team’s pit timing is different, it can make it confusing to know which cars are ahead at a given moment.
Attrition just means how many cars end up not finishing the race. If fewer cars drop out, the race order stays more stable; if more fail, the results can change quickly.
Hypercars are the fastest top-level race cars in that kind of endurance event. They’re high-tech and can be harder to keep running perfectly for the whole race.
Qualifying is the session used to set the starting order for the race. The host’s point is that the race outcome didn’t match qualifying performance—suggesting tire/strategy execution and consistency mattered more than one-lap speed.
“Balance of performance” is how race organizers try to make different cars compete more evenly. They do it by applying rules that limit or adjust things so one car doesn’t run away with the race. In this segment, the host is saying it’s become a bit of a mystery even to teams about what other teams are allowed to run.
The FIA is the organization that governs a lot of auto racing and writes/enforces the rules. When they’re mentioned alongside BoP, it means they’re involved in how cars are regulated so competition stays fair. The host is also using it to point out what the official broadcast says versus other sources.
Restrictors are limits that reduce how much power a race car can make. Race organizers use them to stop one car from being too strong compared to others. Here, the host is saying teams may know what restrictors they themselves are allowed to run.
Ballast is extra weight added to a race car. It’s used so the car doesn’t end up too fast compared to others. In BoP, teams need to know how much ballast they’re required to run.
The ACO is the group that runs endurance racing—especially the Le Mans events. They help set up the rule framework with the FIA. In this segment, the host is saying the FIA/ACO like BoP because it can create closer racing.
A “one make” series is where most teams run essentially the same type of race car. That makes it easier to compare driver skill and team work because the cars aren’t wildly different.
In racing, the chassis is the car’s main structural frame that everything else mounts to. When the host says everyone has the same chassis in LMP2, they mean the core platform is standardized so teams can’t gain an advantage from a different base structure.
That phrase means the engine and the transmission working together. The host is saying LMP2 cars use the same basic powertrain parts, so teams can’t win just by picking a better one.
BOP is a way race organizers try to make different cars perform more similarly. They do this with rules that limit or adjust things so one car doesn’t dominate.
A “setup” is how a team tunes the race car to make it handle and perform the best. If the cars are similar, setup becomes one of the biggest ways teams can differ.
Term
peg back your arrow
They’re talking about aerodynamics—how the car’s shape pushes it down onto the track. “Peg back” means taking away some of that advantage so it can’t run away from the others.
Race officials can add extra weight to a car to make it slower. The host is saying that kind of adjustment changes the competition rules instead of letting the cars race on equal terms.
This means reducing how much power the engine can make. The host is describing it as a rule that can be used to slow a car down so racing stays closer.
Rear wheel drive means the back wheels get the power. In racing, that can change how the car handles and grips the track. The speaker is saying the new rules moving toward RWD is a positive change.
Bodywork is the car’s outer shape—panels and styling. The host is saying rules might let teams change the look while keeping the important performance parts the same. That way, cars can resemble brands without necessarily being faster.
Ferrari is mentioned as an example of a brand whose look could be mimicked with allowed bodywork changes. The host is talking about how rules might control performance but still let cars resemble brands. They don’t name a specific Ferrari model in this part.
Cadillac is mentioned as another example of a brand whose appearance could be recreated with allowed outer panels. The speaker is arguing that rules could make cars similar in performance while still letting them look different. No specific Cadillac model is named.
Toyota is the car company the host is talking about winning Le Mans. They’re saying Toyota struggled in the earlier top-prototype years, then became very successful later. The point is how competition levels changed over time.
LMP1 was the highest-level prototype racing class in endurance events like Le Mans. It was where the most advanced, quickest cars competed. The speaker is talking about how Toyota’s success looked different depending on who else was racing.
Jaguar is another car brand mentioned for comparison. The host says Toyota is one win behind Jaguar at Le Mans. It’s just part of the totals being discussed.
Bentley is another car brand the host brings up for comparison. They’re saying Toyota’s Le Mans wins are equal to Bentley’s total. It’s a historical comparison, not a deep dive.
Private teams are smaller racing outfits that aren’t big manufacturer factories. They often have fewer resources than the top factory teams. The speaker is suggesting Toyota’s early wins were easier to achieve because fewer strong teams showed up.
A “hypercar field” is just the group of the very top race cars competing in the same race. When someone says it’s a strong hypercar field, they mean the competition is tough.
A hybrid system means the car uses both a traditional engine and an electric assist. In racing, that can help the car accelerate and manage energy better during the race.
Lewis Hamilton is a British Formula One driver known for multiple World Championships and for being one of the sport’s most dominant modern racers. In this segment, he’s discussed in the context of a Ferrari win and how his race pace and strategy execution still hold up at an older age.
A “Grand Prix win” refers to winning a Formula One race event, not just a single sprint or qualifying session. In F1, each Grand Prix is a points-paying race weekend, so a win is a major championship result.
In F1, “three-stopping” means stopping for tires three times instead of two or one. It’s a strategy decision that affects how fast you can go and how much time you spend in the pits.
A virtual safety car is like a race slowdown mode that’s controlled by signals, not an actual car on track. Teams often use it to make pit stops at a better moment, because the cars are moving more slowly and the timing works out.
Jack Brabham was an Australian Formula One driver and team owner, and the sport’s first (and only, historically) driver to win a World Championship in a car bearing his own team’s name. The segment uses him as a historical benchmark for age-related records in F1 race wins.
The compression ratio is how tightly an engine squeezes the fuel/air before ignition. The FIA tests are rule checks that can affect how teams set up their engines, which can change how fast the cars are.
A “title fight” means the race to win the championship for the whole season. They’re discussing whether Hamilton can realistically challenge for it again.
A ZEV mandate is a government requirement that pushes car companies to sell more cars that produce no tailpipe emissions. In practice, that usually means electric cars.
EVs are electric cars that run on electricity stored in a battery. When people talk about EVs in policy, they usually mean what percentage of new cars sold are electric.
“Net zero” is the idea that a country (or company) should not add more greenhouse gases to the atmosphere than it removes. It’s a big climate target that can influence laws about cars and energy.
Plug-in hybrids are cars that have both a gas engine and an electric motor. You can charge the battery by plugging the car in, but it can also run on gas.
Residual value is what a car is expected to be worth later, like when you sell it or after a lease. If EVs are heavily discounted now, people may expect they’ll be worth less later too, so fewer people want to buy them.
The “M Concept Neue Classe” is a BMW concept car showing what an electric M3 could look like. It’s a performance-style four-door concept meant to preview BMW’s next EV design language.
The BMW M3 is a sporty BMW that’s built for fast driving and strong handling. The podcast mentions an electric version concept, meaning BMW is exploring how the M3’s performance style could work with an electric motor instead of a traditional engine.
Neue Klasse is BMW’s plan for a new kind of car platform. In the podcast, it’s connected to the idea of an electric M3, meaning it’s part of how BMW wants to build future electric performance cars. The focus is on the foundation BMW will use for upcoming models.
Horsepower is a way to describe how much “work” the car’s power system can do. Higher horsepower usually means stronger acceleration. The hosts are arguing about what the real power number will be for the upcoming car.
Term
650
The “650” figure is shorthand for an estimated horsepower output (650 hp) for the upcoming road car. It matters because the difference between ~650 hp and ~1000 hp is not just power—it also implies different motor/battery sizing and likely different vehicle mass. That affects acceleration, traction, and how the car feels on track.
It means the car has a separate electric motor for each wheel. Because of that, the car can decide how much push each tire gets. That can help it grip better and steer more precisely, especially when driving hard.
Torque vectoring is when the car can change how much power goes to each wheel. By doing that, it can help the car rotate into a turn and stay planted. It’s like giving the steering and grip a more “hands-on” feel.
This is the car’s weight. Heavier cars usually feel less agile and can need more energy to move. The host is comparing the current M3’s weight to what an EV version might weigh.
Term
2.4 tonne car
That’s a guess at how heavy the EV version will be—about 2.4 tons. Extra weight can make a car feel slower to change direction, even if it has more power. The host is weighing power versus weight for driving feel.
The BMW M Coupe (E36) is a two-door BMW made by BMW’s performance team (M). It’s designed to feel sporty and fun to drive, and it’s part of the older generation of BMW M cars that helped build the brand’s performance reputation.
They’re talking about the latest BMW M5 and saying it’s heavier than you’d expect. They also suggest BMW is sharing a lot of design ideas between electric and gas versions, which changes how the car feels.
The BMW 5 Series is a comfortable, mid-size luxury car. People talk about it a lot because it’s meant for daily driving while still offering a sporty feel and modern features. The podcast is referencing how different versions of the 5 Series have been viewed over time.
“Powertrain agnostic” means the car’s design can be used with different kinds of engines. So the same basic car can be made as gas, hybrid, or electric.
A mild hybrid is a car that has a small electric assist, but it still mainly runs on gas. The electric part helps the engine, but it usually isn’t meant to replace the gas engine for long trips.
The BMW iX3 is an electric SUV, meaning it runs on a battery and electric motor instead of gasoline. It’s built in the same general size category as the X3, so it’s meant to feel like a normal BMW SUV but with electric power. The podcast mentions it because it’s already been driven and helps set expectations for future electric BMWs.
“Tax incentives” are government discounts or tax breaks that make a car cheaper to buy. The speaker is saying EV sales might be boosted by these incentives, not just because people want the cars.
“Fleet sales” means businesses buy lots of cars at once for their employees or operations. The speaker is suggesting this can boost EV numbers even if individuals aren’t as excited.
“Hold their value” means how much money the car is still worth later when you go to sell it. The host is saying performance EVs often lose that value quickly.
Car
Nichols N1A
The Nichols N1A is a special open-top performance car. The host describes driving it in terrible weather and getting drenched because it doesn’t have a normal roof or windshield setup.
An aero screen is a small wind shield on an open-top car. It helps with wind, but it doesn’t fully protect you like a normal windshield—so you can still get soaked.
Horsepower is a way to describe how strong the engine is. They’re pointing out that even with 700 horsepower, the car is still an open-top that gets soaked in rain.
Term
seven liter small block V8
This describes the engine: a V8 with a big 7.0-liter size. “Small block” generally means a more compact V8 design compared with larger engine families.
Traction control helps stop the wheels from spinning when the road is slippery. It uses sensors to detect slip and then reduces power or brakes to regain grip.
ABS is a safety system that keeps your wheels from locking during braking. That way you can still steer while stopping, especially on wet or slippery roads.
Power-to-weight ratio is how strong the car is compared to how heavy it is. A higher number generally means the car feels quicker because it has less weight to push around.
John Minut runs Nichols Cars and helps decide what kind of cars they build. Here, he’s saying they’re making the M1A for people who want a more direct, less electronic driving feel.
Car
N1A
The N1A is a modern car built to feel like a classic race car. The host says it’s inspired by the old McLaren M1A, including the lightweight race-car vibe and how it drives.
Car
McLaren M1A
The McLaren M1A is an old McLaren race car from the 1960s. The hosts are saying a newer car (the N1A) is basically a modern take on that original design.
Car
Gordon Murray's T50
The T.50 is a modern race-inspired supercar designed by Gordon Murray. The host brings it up to compare how expensive it is and what kind of driving/engineering focus it has.
The Gordon Murray Automotive T.50 is a very high-end sports car made for fast driving. It’s known for being lightweight and focused on how it drives rather than just luxury. The podcast brings it up to show that some performance cars cost much more than others.
Naturally aspirated means the engine doesn’t use a turbo or supercharger to force air in. It relies on normal airflow, and power usually comes in more smoothly as the revs rise.
A manual gearbox requires the driver to change gears using a clutch and gear lever, rather than relying on an automatic system. In performance cars, it’s often chosen for direct driver control and a more engaging connection between throttle and wheel speed.
It’s a manual gearbox where you can see the shift “slots” as you move the lever. Race cars like it because it feels more direct and helps you find the right gear quickly.
Right-hand drive means the steering wheel is on the right side of the car. The host is saying it matches how many racing cars were set up historically.
An aero kit is a set of add-on parts that change how air flows around the car. The goal is usually to press the car harder onto the road so it sticks better at speed.
The Ferrari Luce is a specific Ferrari car model. The podcast mentions it as something people might want to choose. The main point is that it’s a named Ferrari option in the discussion.
The host is saying the car is meant to bring back the vibe of an older kind of racing, not just chase the fastest possible times. It’s more about the experience and character than pure numbers.
“Straight line” means how the car does when you’re not turning—mostly acceleration and top speed. The host is saying it likely beats the others in that kind of comparison.
LIVE
Welcome back to the intercooler podcast, everybody. The podcast powered by car finance specialist
JBR Capital. This is episode 318 with Dan Prossa and Andrew Frankel. Andrew, we've just had
a big weekend of motorsport. So there's a lot of stuff to catch up just in racing and
plenty of other things that we want to talk about this episode. But actually, before we
get started Father's Day is just around the corner, end of this week. And Andrew, if people
are still scratching around for the perfect Father's Day gift, have you got any ideas?
Anything come to mind?
Well, funny you should mention it, Dan. But I always thought that a subscription to the
intercooler would be quite a good idea to give your petrol headfather. I mean, what better?
It's something that he will enjoy not just on the day and then stick in the draw and
forget forever, but every single day of the working week. You know, he can open it on
Sunday and then on every Sunday for the first time, he can browse through our library. It
must be up to nearly 2000 bespoke unique stories. And then every day of the working week, he
will be able to enjoy new stories written by the finest bunch of writers ever to write
about cars anywhere in the world. What could be better?
That's a pretty good pitch, I reckon. I've got nothing to add, except, yeah, come on.
If your dad loves cars, surely he'll love a gift subscription to the intercooler, our
online magazine this year. You can also get a 10% discount. If you use coupon code GIFT10
at checkout, that will give you your 10% discount. There'll be a link in the description or just
head to the-intercooler.com and find the GIFTS page. It takes no time at all. So please
do consider doing that.
And also do remind him if you think he might be too busy to sit down and read stories that
he can just listen to them wherever he goes, whether he's out walking a dog or driving
his car or doing whatever. Every story that we produce, we also voice. We don't get AI
to voice them. We voice them ourselves. We know from the feedback from you guys that
people think that's a really important addition. Nobody else is doing it in anything like the
same sort of way. You also get ad-free access to this podcast. You get to ask questions
on our bespoke subscriber only. Ask the intercooler podcast. I mean, it is the GIFT that keeps
on giving year-round.
Yeah, literally. Do do that. Thanks, everyone. Okay, big weekend of racing. Neither of us
were at Le Mans this year for various reasons. I was at a wedding, actually, a wedding with
zero phone reception and no Wi-Fi. So I had no idea what was going on at Le Mans until
I woke up on Sunday morning. So I have not been able to follow this one. You were watching
it a bit more closely than I was.
Yeah, no, I was. It was a good race. I started watching it and thinking, oh, well, it's just
going to be sort of same old, same old. They're just what- I mean, the only excitement in
the early hours. And I don't know whether this paid off for them big time at the end
or whether the result would have been the result come what may, but Toyota decided to go for
fuel after only half a stint, putting them completely out of sync with the rest of the
grid. And so it was actually, for the first, in the early hours, it was quite difficult
to work out who was where because the Toyotas were either about to come in when nobody else
was all the other way around. But it all sort of worked out very well for them. I mean,
I can remember somebody saying in the sort of warm-up to it, you know, they're going
through the teams. I can't remember whether Toyotas qualified, but I mean, they were basically
nowhere. And somebody saying, well, obviously, this isn't going to be Toyotas. Yeah, but
you know, Toyota, you know, they're a really good team. They usually have good race pace.
And you know, you probably can expect them to be around at the end. And if they're around
at the end, they'll probably come somewhere. They might just, you know, they might get
sneaker podium from somewhere, if others form by like, well, there wasn't an awful lot of
attrition. There was a fair bit in the hypercars. Most of the hypercar teams lost at least one
car. But the Toyotas wound not only wound up winning it, but they came third as well
with a BMW in second place. And what was good about it, about the race was it was really
too close to call until very near the end. It was clear that the Ferraris didn't quite
have the pace that they've shown in the previous three years. And I'm going to come back to
that in a minute. And the Peugeots weren't really in the running and the Alps weren't
really in the running. But the BMW is the Toyotas. And the Caddy, in particular, the
didn't know who was on the right tyres. You didn't know what strategy would be played
out. You didn't know what stint makes people do. So it was all close enough that if somebody
had played an absolute blinder with their strategy, as Ferrari did at Barcelona at the
weekend, that it actually could have gone any one of a number of different ways. And
that was really, really exciting. And for a long time, actually, you know, Cadillacs
led. And, you know, I would have loved, loved Cadillac to have won that race, not because
I particularly hold the candle for Cadillac, but I think Jota and what they've done, what
Sam Hignett has done with that team is absolutely unbelievable. And I would have just been so
happy because I think they deserve it. I absolutely think that they deserve the way they have
brought that team on and what they are now achieving with it. I mean, this is the team
that I think I mentioned in my previous content, once ran me and a bunch of other idiots in
MX five at the Silverstone 24 hours. Now look at them, they're really, really threatening
to win the more outright. And I just think it's a great story. And I was if I was rooting
for anyone, I was rooting for BMW a bit because I was there when was it the year before last,
when they first went back and they had an absolute nightmare. And, you know, this is
a team that's only won it once in 1999. Nobody really remembers that. So I'd have been very
happy if they'd done it. But I was also pretty happy for Toyota because, you know, they won
the more in the kind of way that race tends to get won by teams that don't make mistakes,
that show consistent pace. And it just it showed what a complete mockery qualifying was
because it did that didn't really relate to the results at all. It's good for spectators.
It's good for sponsors, obviously. It's good for copy. But it really doesn't bear any relation
to the result at all. And the Aston's, you know, the Valkyries, I think they both finished. I
know one of them had a big problem towards the end. But they were I mean, they were never
going to threat the podium. But I think they were making steady progress, certainly from where
they were last year. I think in one of the I think they were quickest in one of the practice
sessions. And, you know, this year, instead of just being, you know, a number of seconds off
the pace of the leading cars, they were, you know, a second, a second and a bit, maybe sometimes
a few tenths of a second. So they are really closing the gap. So it was a good weekend, I
would say it was completely dry. There was no weather at all, which is very unusual for the
more. But I said I wanted to come back to the Ferraris and their apparent lack of pace. I don't
believe that Ferraris got any slower at all. And this is where we always have to talk about the
dreaded balance of performance. It was it was hilarious. You listen to the commentary, and I
was listening both to the official FIA commentary on the telly. And then when I couldn't be
watching telly, I'd be listening to Radio LeMol. And that was a phrase you never heard. Nobody
said balance of performance. And, and you know, I went round to a mate's house to watch a bit of
the start. And it's only then because he's really, really into this stuff that he told me that you
remember in the past, teams weren't allowed to talk to the press or the public, weren't allowed to
mention the balance of performance to the press or the public. Yeah. Now, they're not even, they
don't even know themselves, the BOP, that every other team has got. So it's a completely closed
shop. I guess you have to know what your own BOP is, because you have to know what era level you
can run, what restrictors you can run, what ballast you have, or so on and so forth. But you
have no idea what anybody else is doing. So it's completely secret now. And the FIA would, and the
ACO would say, well, that's fantastic, because look what happened, we had really close racing, and
the race was too close to call by the end of it. And I kind of get that. And maybe to the spectators,
that's what they went to see. But it does, to me, at least continue to play to this sense that what
you're watching is an orchestration, that there are superior beings deciding whose year it is, or
who's going to be, you know, quite clearly, well, to me, at least, I'm not saying this definitively,
because I don't know. But the impression I got, what I inferred from what I saw was that the
powers that B had decided that Ferrari had done three in a row, well done Ferrari. And now it's
time to give somebody else a go. And, you know, there is no other explanation for the Ferraris
suddenly losing a competitive edge, which is a one on that race three times on the trot. I don't
believe everybody else has made a huge amount of progress, and they've gone backwards. I just don't
believe it. So clearly, stuff is going on. And clearly, it is stuff going on that they don't want
they being the ACO and the FIA don't want us to know. And that doesn't sit very comfortably with
me. Others will say, I forgot to say, Frank, get over yourself, it was a great race. And everybody
will remember it was a fantastic race. And it was a good clean fair fight. And the team that won
won because they did the best job on the day. And, you know, you really shouldn't have a problem
with that. So I mean, maybe it's my maybe a minority view. But what I liked is, I thought it was
very instructive, you look at the LMP two grid, which is essentially one make base series now.
Everybody has the same chassis, everybody has the same engine gearbox, everybody has the same
shape car. All you can do to make a difference, there's no BOP and LMP two. All you can do is
change the setup and choose really good drivers. That's all you can do. And that to me is racing.
That is pure racing. The cars are the same. You could put the quickest drivers in the slowest car
and they still win. Because there is no difference between the cars or there shouldn't be any
difference between the cars. And nobody is saying, Oh, well, it's your turn now. Or, you know, it's,
you know, we're going to peg back your arrow a bit or give you a bit more weight or cut down your
engine. Everyone's the same. It's a completely level playing field. And that, I guess, is what I'd
really like to see. Because what do we want from motor racing? We want to see the best team, i.e.
the best drivers and the best team behind the drivers win the race. That's what motor racing
is. That's what you got LMP two. And nobody really realizes that anymore, because people don't really
focus on LMP two. But it's that's what's there. And there's no mucking about. And that's what I'd
like it to I mean, I think they're going to talk about this because they produce some new rules,
haven't they for think it's 2030. Everything's going rear wheel drive whoopee, which is really
good news. And I think that there is going to be someone will correct me if I'm wrong. There's
basically going to be a spec chassis that everybody has to have. Or if you want to do your own,
you basically have to do it to that specification. So you shouldn't be able to gain advantage now.
And all your basically the cars will essentially all be the same, apart from you'll be able to put
your own bodywork on to make a Ferrari look like a Ferrari or a Cadillac look like a Cadillac or
whatever. And then maybe that'll get somewhere towards where LMP two now is where you essentially
have the same cars. And it really will be then down to who does the best job. That to me is
motor racing. It's not a bunch of people in a dark room, looking at all the teams, looking at the
past results, looking at their PR interests, going forward and thinking, Well, we think we think this
time. These guys have done a you know, I've had it really good for the last few years. So we're
going to let some other people have a go. That to me isn't racing. I've always found the BOP stuff
at Le Mans difficult. But I have nothing to add what you've just said, but I completely agree.
But well done Toyota. So do you know what, they've now won Le Mans six times.
That's as many as Bentley and one behind Jaguar. And during the height of the LMP one era, when
there were lots of many of several manufacturers competing, Toyota couldn't win that race for
love nor money, could they? Now they're really successful there. Yeah. And this is what this
is the accusation that's always sort of thrown about is that when they when they had those early
wins, and I think they won three in a row, didn't they? Or maybe even four. It was only because
nobody else turned up. It was when LMP one was just all everybody else had gone. And it was them
versus a few private teams. And frankly, everybody knew the private teams didn't stand ahead. So
those early wins are the in the eyes of some devalued. No one can quibble about what they
did this weekend. No, no, you know, the strongest field hypercar field. Well, I guess you could say
the Porsches weren't there. But other than that, but they also had we had what we had Genesis in
didn't we? The strongest hypercar field there's ever been. There's certainly never been a stronger
one. And they won it fair and square. So well done Toyota. Huge credit for quibble with that.
And drivers Mike Conway and Kamui Kobayashi have both won Le Mans twice now. And I was pleased
for Nick De Vries winning after I mean, his F1 career was short and it did not go as as he hoped
it would. Absolutely. Here we are Le Mans winner. Yeah. And so I mean, it was called C Toyota win.
I would now like to see one of the others win that race BMW Cadillac. I mean, the Aston's would
be wonderful. But are they ever going to be truly front runners? Maybe. But it's they're still some
way off, aren't they, despite all the all the progress that they have made. So maybe that's
I was thinking about the Aston's. And what I think they're missing a trick, what they should do,
even if they're completely fake is put number plates on it. Yeah, they should just they should
just have as part of the bodywork number plates with some British number plates on it. Because
they are the only car in that category, which is which came from a car which was entitled to wear
a number plate. It was the only car out there developed from a road car. And I would want to
be out there making that point every single that and if anybody from Aston Martin Racing is listening
to this, please do because I think it would be I think that I think your fans will absolutely love
it. I think you'd be a good PR opportunity. And I think it would really make an important point
because it may be that they are not they are so constrained by for instance, not having a hybrid
system on the car. That it's not possible for them to, you know, find those extra tents that will
get them really, really up the front. But I agree with you, I would love to see one of those other
teams an Alpine or a BMW or a Cadillac, obviously a Aston Martin. Next year, there's Ford and McLaren
coming in. You know, I guess because they're new to it, they can't expect to win straight out the
box, which I don't think you'd ever do anyway. But I suspect also that not that we'll ever know,
but the balance of performance may not fall entirely in their favor. So we'll see. I just hope
this sense of it being managed, you know, and what you're seeing is more than anything else,
what the organizers want you to see. I just hope that sense goes away. But then again,
I probably don't think about it the same way that other people do.
Maybe. Let's do some Formula One. The Barcelona Catalina Grand Prix.
I thought you might be bringing this up. I can't imagine why.
It was the worst-rated Lewis Superfan.
Lewis Hamilton's first Grand Prix win for Ferrari. I was so happy and I feel smug,
actually. But he also did it on merit. I mean, it was a strategy race, really, wasn't it?
Ferrari nailed the strategy ahead of the Mercedes by three-stopping. And a bit of fortune for Lewis
with that late virtual safety car that allowed him to pit, take his final pit stop.
I saw some analysis which said it wouldn't have made a difference. You'd have won it anyway.
I think that's probably true, particularly his pace in that final stint. I mean,
he was pulling a second a lap on George, wasn't he? He won it by 20 seconds, which is exceptional.
I feel smug about this, right? Because at the end of last year, I wrote a story for us
saying that, essentially, saying I still thought Lewis could do it.
What did you mean by it?
Compete at the highest level and win races. I didn't necessarily... I wasn't arguing that he's got
another championship in him, although we'll come back to that. But still, on his day, win.
And I took quite a lot of flak for that, which is fair enough, but he's done it,
hasn't he? And do you know what? If he doesn't win another... If this is it now,
if he doesn't win another title, race, I sort of don't mind,
because he's shown that at 41, he still has that pace. He can still put together a perfect race
and beat the best of the rest out there. So he's the oldest winner in Formula One since
Jack Brabham in 1970. Yeah. Yeah, because he was a couple of months old of the Nigel was when
he won his last. Yeah. Yeah. There's quite something. That's another great thing to chalk up.
I mean, there will be those, and they're probably right, who will say, well, a large part of that
is that the cars are so much easier to drive than they were 20 years ago. And whether this
happened 20 years ago, he wouldn't stand a chance. Maybe. And maybe that's true, but it
doesn't really matter, does it? Because he won the race against the best in the world,
and he won it fair and square. He and his team, and these things are always team efforts,
out thought everybody else. And isn't it great that Ferrari, having so often just got the strategy
completely wrong, this weekend at least, completely nailed it. And as you say, he won it absolutely
fair and square. Antonelli wasn't there, which I guess that might have made a difference, but
George seemed to have the legs on, on Kimmy for most of the weekend. And George couldn't
keep up with Lewis. So maybe it wouldn't have made a difference. And a wins win.
I think, you know, what you're saying about, it doesn't matter if he never wins another,
I think he is now much more likely to win another. I think the monkey is off his back.
And I think that he will, I think his confidence. And I think he is one of these guys we saw,
didn't we, at the end of last year, when he was saying all those unfortunate things about him
not being able to drive, that his confidence had really, really taken a knock. And I think he's
super confident now. And now not only does he believe that he can do it, he has shown himself
on the world that he can do it. And I don't know whether the next Grand Prix is where it is, but
I expect he will be ready and raring to go. Yeah, it's also the Ferrari.
Yeah, also the, the upgrade that Ferrari brought to Barcelona has obviously worked very well. I
think that is now super competitive car. Well, and I mean, there was the the FIA introduced
the new compression ratio tests for Monaco. And we, we didn't see the outcome of it there,
such an outlier track. So maybe that is one element that explains why the Ferrari was so quick
this weekend. But also, you know, that track is the sort of the default Grand Prix circuit,
isn't it? If you can be quick there, they say you can be quick more or less anywhere. And so
actually, is Lewis now in this title fight? Could he fight for more wins this, this season?
Possibly title, I don't know. It's possible.
You can't rule out now, can you? You can't rule out now. No, the only thing, the only slight
nature of caution I would add is that you're absolutely right. It is kind of like the default
setting. But I think the tired Degg at Barcelona is unusual. And it was, he won that race by
three stopping. I think most of the others were doing two. So that's the, if you were looking
for reasons just to be a bit cautious and thinking, well, you know, maybe it's not quite as representative
as it initially might seem, you could look at that. But I don't think you can really read too
much into it at all. We need to see how he gets on through the rest of the European season. And
really, you know, six months from now, or less, whatever, three or four months now, he'll be
really, really fighting at the front regularly. I hope so. I do another word of caution then. I
think his teammate, Charles Leclerc, who's had a couple of shockers, I think he is going to come
roaring back, particularly if the car's quick. He's too good not to. He's just having a very
difficult run of races. But I don't think that will last. So, you know, there's going to be
some competition there, certainly. But, you know, I think we're seeing Charles under more pressure
than we have done, possibly any other point in his career, because he's not, he's not dominating
his teammate like he's used to doing. Absolutely, like he did with Carlos, particularly.
Yeah. And then Carlos could beat Charlotte on occasion and, you know, and competed well against
him. But I think, you know, Carlos on one side, but having a seven-time world champion beating
you and also defying all the odds of apparently doing the impossible and winning Grand Prix at
the age of 41. You know, it must go down your head a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure it does.
Let's see. And we've got the British Grand Prix coming up soon, which will be,
it's always a highlight, isn't it? You sent me a screenshot of a Sunday Times article over the
weekend, which is talking about Kirstama reportedly watering down the UK's zero-emissions vehicles
mandate. And we've had this discussion so many times, haven't we? And I think, at the last,
we basically agreed that something had to give. And at some point, the British government was going
to roll back this ZEV mandate. It seems to be happening now. Well, while Kirstama remains our
prime minister, we're recording this on the Monday that it goes out. And there is that there is a
certain by-election happening on Thursday. So we may be calling this slightly differently by the
end of the week. But I think what it is is simply an acknowledgement of the inevitable. And I think
that it sounds to me like they are listening finally to the car industry, which is basically
saying you are absolutely killing us with this thing. And if you want, you know, the economy to
prosper, you have to stop this because, you know, car manufacturers simply cannot afford
to cut prices so much that people are almost forced to buy EVs that they don't really want,
or to sell so few cars in the UK that the proportion of the overall number of cars they
sell are EV, therefore, to meet the criteria of the test. I mean, it's just not working out. And it's
I mean, it's hugely problematic. The story of the in the Sunday Times was essentially saying that
Ed Miliband, who is clearly a man who is very
waded to the whole net zero concept and is among the current cabinet far and away perceived to be
far and away the most sort of ardent supporter and defender of making active steps to reduce
climate change. And this is Starmer turning around to Miliband and going, well, you know,
nice idea, Chum, but it's not it's not real. It's not realistic. It can't happen. And I have to say
I've always taken that view. I think the the goals are all laudable. I think the way they're
going about it is pretty hamfisted. And I think the timing has been completely unrealistic.
So I think what the story says is that by 2030, when 80% of all cars and manufacturers
sell had to be EVs, I think the idea is that now that will become 50%, which strikes me as being
still ambitious, but much more realistic. Yeah.
And yeah, the mandate is currently written. All pure petrol and diesel cars, the sale of all
pure petrol and diesel cars with some exemptions, were going to be outlawed from 2030. And so the
remaining 20% were going to be made up by plug-in hybrids. This report doesn't say anything about
that. What the other 50% can be, you know, is that is this a stay of execution for a little while at
least for pure petrol and diesel cars? We don't know. I don't see how it could be
anything else. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Which again, is, is, I mean, to me, that's not political
positioning. That's not, you know, a political party making party political choices. I think it's
just an acknowledgement of the inevitable of what's going to be forced upon them anyway. So
you might as well make it look like you planned it. It had to happen because the mandate was just
doing so much damage to British industry, to the car economy, to jobs. I mean, it
was, it was ruinous. And it's amazing that it's taken quite so long for it to be put right.
But also, you know, the other thing it was doing is it was quietly torpedoing EV sales as it went
along because, you know, what manufacturers have to do is massively discount EV sales to meet the
mandate, therefore killing their residual values, therefore making people even less likely to want
to go out and buy one. It was completely, I mean, it was just so poorly thought through, it just
wasn't thought through at all from what I can see. But anyway, let's hope that our new Prime Minister,
who I am sure will be Andy Burnham in, in a very short period of time,
you know, continues to just, just see common sense. You know, we are not in any way
a political podcast or website or anything else. And we do try to steer clear of these matters.
But when it is as clear as the nose in your face that what is being proposed is simply not possible,
then, you know, you can just go on ignoring it and put up with all the damage that it's doing,
or you can face reality and go, well, you know, nice idea, but not going to happen. So this is the
more pragmatic, practical, reasonable solution we're going to put in place, which I think is,
I hope, is what's going to happen. We'll see. Yeah, we should say this is just a report in the
Sunday Times for now. But I believe it, I really do. So talk of EVs. Over the weekend at Le Mans,
BMW launched the M Concept Neue Classe, which is really a concept for the electric M3, which we
know is coming. There's going to be a petrol one as well. And so we've seen this concept car for
the first time. And it's a tough looking, you know, four-door performance car, amazing stance.
Whether you like this Neue Classe design language or not, I don't know. But the concept,
it does look quite cool. It looks aggressive. It looks muscular. Some reports have said that
it's going to the road car, which we know is coming, is going to have up to 1000 horsepower.
I did see others saying it's actually 650. So maybe it's not quite that four-figure number.
But either way, it's going to be a hell of a lot of power. And we do know that the road car will
have one motor per wheel, which means you can, I've driven cars like that, one electric motor
per wheel, and they do amazing things, particularly on track. The torque vectoring that you can do
with that configuration, it is extraordinary, you know, whether or not it actually equates to an
engaging and rewarding driving experience is another matter. But you can make a car do
bizarre things when you've got one motor per wheel. But I mean, no one has demonstrated
definitively that there's any interest in EV performance cars as yet, have they?
So is this just, is this doomed this thing? What do you reckon?
I mean, how many people really take their M3s on a track? I mean, how many people,
you know, we see a lot of it on telly and we like doing a bit of ourselves, but really go,
you know, get a race track with the view of seeing how sideways they can get their road car.
I mean, I think even the world of the M3, I suspect it is an almost statistically
negligible percentage of the customer base. We don't know what the proposition is, do we?
BMW have released very few details about it, but it is reasonable. Well, it's interesting,
those two power outputs, you know, 650 or 1000 horsepower, you know, that's not just one having
375 more horsepower than the other. That's also probably one weighing 200 kilos more than the
other. It's a big bloody difference. So we'll have to see how that pans out. But given the current
M3 is nearly 1900 kilos, it probably is a thick end of two tons as a touring.
Turn that into an EV and we know what other Neuer classes work. I mean, this is going to be a 2.4
tonne car, isn't it? Probably. I actually hope it's got 625 horsepower rather than 1000 because
that'll mean I'd so much rather have the reduced weight than the added power.
There's nothing that I have seen which suggests to me that this is somehow going to buck the trend
and that BMW M, which has built so much of a reputation on having great power trains.
And we think back to the straight sixes of the early days and then the naturally aspirated V8s
and the V10s and then those, you know, I've got an M5 CS parked outside at the moment,
2021 car, and I'm about to go off on a bit of a journey.
And the V8 in that is absolutely stonking. It really is. We know also, don't we, and I don't
know what's happened to the sales, but we know that certainly in terms of the critical press,
the new M5, which is immensely heavy because it's based on the same platform they spend
their EV off, I think it weighs two and a half tonnes, has not been, I'm sure it is the least
well received M5 that there has ever been. The possible exception of the F10, but doubt it.
Anyway, there's nothing I can see which makes me think this is going to fly.
But again, this is BMW being clever, isn't it? Because, excuse me, if they're doing EV
and ICE versions of the same car, maybe they'll say, well, it doesn't matter, you know,
people want petrol cars, we'll just make petrol cars. And it's what you say,
powertrain agnostic is your phrase, isn't it? So maybe that's what it'll be. But
will it be a pure ICE version or will it be a plug-in? I suspect it'll be a plug-in.
Well, I did read that it might be a mild hybrid, but it won't be a fair thing,
won't be a plug-in. Yeah, okay, okay, okay. I'm not excited by the idea of an electric M3,
if I'm completely honest. I am very excited by the Nair class. I mean, we've already driven the
IX3 and we know the three series is coming. And the IX3 is the most capable EV on sale at the
moment, but it's not trying to be a performance car. That's the difference. And there is nothing
that I've seen that anybody else has done to make me think that an electric version of a car like
that is going to be something which is going to really resonate for people. Of course, there will
be massive tax incentives and maybe they'll do a lot of fleet sales on the back of that,
but it's something which people actually desire to go out and spend their own money on. I can't
see it, but you know, we haven't even seen this back at the car yet. We don't really know what
it's going to look like. We don't know what it's going to cost. We know nothing about it. So
all I'm giving is sort of knee-jerk reaction to, you know, to a few photographs. But I can't
really see any more than that at the moment. Yeah, I think the other issue is that people
are savvy now and they know that high-end, particularly performance EVs, they don't hold
their value. They really don't. You look at the Audi's, you look at the Porsches, all sorts of
other stuff. They do tank in value. And so why would you put, I don't know, call it 100 grand,
maybe it's more of your own money into something that's just going to shed a load of that value
in a few years? And if it's not work for Porsche and Audi, why is it suddenly going to work for BMW?
Me of a BMW would say, well, our technology is that much more sophisticated, which it is,
because the car's that much newer. The market is more mature and more receptive because
EVs are now part of everyday life. We will see. But I expect it'll be a hard sell.
Yeah, I think so. All right, enough EVs, because I spent a day a couple of weeks ago driving a
very different kind of car to an electric M3. That's the Nichols N1A, right? Which is,
you look at it, you just think, well, that's a Cannam car for the road. And that's what they're
trying to do. I'm not going to give everything away here because my story goes live on the
app and website tomorrow. But there is a lot of stuff that we can talk about with this car.
So I drove it in Wales up on one of our favorite mountain roads where the weather was horrendous.
And this is an open top car. It doesn't even have a sort of temporary fabric hood or anything.
It's pure open top, only has an aero screen, but not a proper screen at all. And if it's raining,
you're going to get soaked. And I did. I got absolutely drenched. It's one of those days where
you had these rain cells just blowing through one after another. So it would be chucking it down
so hard that you just get drenched in seconds, one moment. And then, you know, the sun almost
comes out for a little bit, but then another rain cell comes through. And so it was a weird day to
be driving a 700 horsepower, seven liter small block V8 open top car on Michelin Cup 2 tires.
You know, a weird day to be doing that on the road. Without a heater, I imagine. No heater,
no creature comforts. Power steering? No. So, you know, that is a, but it has traction control
and ABS, fully switchable actually, and with multiple settings. And so, you know, not actually a,
you look at it, particularly in those conditions on the road, and you just think, oh my God,
I don't think I'm brave enough to drive this thing. It weighs 900 kilograms soaking wet at the
curb. It's got 700 horsepower, which is an extraordinary power to weight ratio. And you
it's really quite benign on the road, even on Cup 2 tires, I was worried about those.
But it's not, it's not a difficult or intimidating car when you actually drive it. Again, I won't
say too much. But we, we then decamped from that mountain road to Pembury, the racetrack,
the home of Welsh motorsport, that's what they call it. I've never been to Pembury before.
But as we were driving there, the sky's just cleared, the sun came out and it became a beautiful
day. And Pembury was bone dry. It was warm. And it's a proper racetrack that, you know, it's,
it's quite small. It's, it's very flat because it's an airfield track. But it's a, it's got some
quick stuff. It's a good size circuit. You can really hustle a car around there. The, the nickels,
I won't say too much again, but it was a blast. It was a blast around that place.
But I was talking to Nichols, Nichols cars CEO and founder,
John Minut. And we were talking about who this car is for. And he was saying that
he thinks they've arrived at the right time when there are loads of supercars and hypercars
with electrification or fully electric. They've got, you know, they've made these crazy claims
for power, for aerodynamic downforce, wildly complicated assist systems and driver aids,
paddle shift gearboxes, you know, all the rest of it. And he just thinks that there's a huge
constituency of buyers in that market who are not interested in that, in that sort of stuff.
And they just want a pure analog mechanical driving experience. It's the sort of stuff that
you and I talk about a lot. And here they are with this M1A.
I completely agree. I think you completely agree. And, you know, the Nichols comes from Steve Nichols.
The former McLaren Formula One designer, you know, the man who,
have to be careful what you say, don't you? Because there's an ongoing fight between him and
Gordon Meister, who actually designed the MP44. But nevertheless, you know, that's at the time
most successful racing, Formula One racing car, which won 15 out of 16 races in the 1988 season.
That's him. That's where the Nichols comes from. And so I think it's got the brand. It's also,
it's called the N1A because it is the car, it is, if you like, a recreation and modern
interpretation of the original McLaren M1A, which was a K&M car, which came out, I think it
competed in the 66 season. I've driven one of those. That is a monster. proper monster.
But actually very similar in look and specification. So I think the N1A back then would have actually
had a small block engine in it, which would have therefore been a 4.7 maybe 289. Oh, no,
it would have been a Chevy, wouldn't it? So it might have been a 350. So probably a 5.7.
And it probably only had 500 horsepower only. But it would have run through skinny little tires
on this sort of spidery space frame chassis. And I can remember driving that and having an
absolute blast in that thing. Because those sorts of cars, which having closed bodywork,
so I'm always a bit intimidated by open wheel race cars. So you actually feel like you're driving
a sort of proper car, which have huge amounts of power, but which are fundamentally well engineered.
I can see absolutely why they want to recreate a car like that. And I think they're absolutely
right. I think you only have to look at things like Gordon Murray's T50, which had a very
very different price point. I presume the Nichols is less than a million pounds.
About half a million.
About half a million pounds. So in a completely different position. But what do you have with
Gordon Murray car? You have a light, driver oriented car with a naturally aspirated multi
cylinder engine, manual gearbox, rear wheel drive. And look at the success that has been.
I think because I think the company has the Kudos, I think it has the brand association.
And I think it's got the right product. And I suspect their volume aspirations aren't that high.
I hope and suspect that they'll do very well with it. Yeah, it may well be the thing to be seen in
at a sort of top end RMA track day. Yeah, well, it should be because it's it's so much fun and
engaging, rewarding. It's not an aero car. So it takes a bit of driving. It's just mega and it's
got this beautiful open gate manual transmission, right hand drive car. But the the gear stick is
on the right hand use your right hand. Should be. Yeah. Yeah. So it's that sort of proper can
and style isn't? Yeah, absolutely. That's to me, that's absolutely as it should be.
Because racing cars traditionally were always right hand drive wherever they came from,
because most circuits were clockwise. And you always use your right hand to change gear.
Yeah. So it's authentic in that sense. So yeah, fantastic. Yeah.
So we'll see we'll see how they get on with that thing. They they did, you know,
they want to be here for a long time, right? They're not just planning to do this N1A
set a handful and then shut up shop. Of course, they I think there will be probably a high down
force version. I think they will do that at some point, because it'd be quite straightforward
to bolt on an aero kit, went to it and build something really optimized for the racetrack.
Fine. Why wouldn't you? But maybe they will start doing other cars as well.
Maybe they'll do. I didn't even talk to John about this, but maybe they'll do a closed car.
You know, it's all I love this stuff. And it's exactly the kind of car I enjoy.
The pity of it is, and for good commercial reason, it costs half a million quid. And so
who's actually going to get to drive one? You know, not many people.
And I just want the same as a Ferrari luce.
Well, take your pick. Yes, I think I know which I would have.
They do cost half a million quid. And I think that I think there will be some people listening
to this who will say, well, you could spend a tenth of that on a radical.
Yeah. And okay, you might have a paddle shift gearbox, but essentially, you know, you have a
really serious track day weapon there, which will probably be in lap time quicker, I don't know,
because it has downforce. Who knows. And it costs a tenth of the money. And I think if you want,
to me, there's no conflict, because if you want a very finely honed racing car,
designed to go around tracks as fast as humanly possible, then go by radical. But that's not
what the N1A is. It's not trying to be that. If they were trying to be that, for a start,
they'd have given it some downforce. It's trying to be an evocation. It's trying to recapture
a glorious former and now long since a much missed past era, where it was, you know, balls
to the wall driving, and it was big banger engines and, you know, and you left your own
devices. And that's to me is what the car's real appeal is. So I wish them all the best.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And of course, if you're comparing it to a radical, it doesn't look like
particularly good value. And they will and they do instead compare themselves to the Pagani's and
the Koenigseggs and so on, which may be a bit of a stretch, but they cost a fraction of what one of
those things does. And certainly in a straight line is probably faster. I'd rather have one
than a Pagani or a Koenigsegg. I say that I haven't driven it. I like the idea more than a Pagani
or a Koenigsegg. I like where it's coming from more than a Pagani or a Koenigsegg. And given
that this would only ever be one car in a multi multi-car garage, I think it's, I think it's
got huge desirability to a very, to a very certain particular pretty small constituency of people.
And so we'll see how they go on with it. Yeah, yeah, we will. Yeah, so my story
goes live tomorrow as we're recording this, if you're listening to this on Tuesday or any later,
it's up there right now, so you can go and have a look. So we've run out of time. I will just
remind you all that far this day is at the end of this week on Sunday. And if your dad loves cars,
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About this episode
Lewis Hamilton’s Ferrari win becomes the episode’s anchor, with hosts crediting Ferrari’s three-stop strategy, a late virtual safety car that helped timing, and Hamilton’s pace in the final stint—plus the fact he’s the oldest winner since Jack Brabham. From there, the discussion widens to endurance racing: Toyota’s early fuel stop at Le Mans, the role of BoP opacity, and why standardized LMP2 feels closer to a level playing field. The show also pivots into EV policy and performance-car design debates.
Dan Prosser and Andrew Frankel discuss Lewis Hamilton's remarkable return to the top step of the Formula 1 podium – his first Grand Prix win for Ferrari. Is he now back to his best, and can he even fight for this year's drivers' championship? Dan and Andrew also talk about the 24 Hours of Le Mans, won by Toyota, plus the new electric BMW M3 and the fearsome Nichols N1A.
Use coupon code pod20 at checkout to get 20% off an annual subscription to The Intercooler's online car magazine for the first year! Listen to this podcast ad-free, and enjoy a subscriber-only midweek podcast too. With a 30-day free trial, you can try it risk-free – https://www.the-intercooler.com/subscribe/
