Limited Editions & Numbered Cars: Hype or Investment? Corvette vs McLaren + Porsche Values

Welcome to Full Throttle Talk, the podcast where a forcepower meets conversation from supercars to classic

legends, high-reving tech to motorsport mayhem. We covered all, straight from the driver's seat,

whether you're a gear head eraser, or just love to throw the open road, you're in the right place.

Buckle up, hit the gas, and let's go, Full Throttle into today's episode. So, I'm so

envious of you, Dave. I mean, like, this is where I want to be. I hear you, buddy.

Check it out, though. We're having a blast so far.

Gosh. I think it's hard to get to be on the podcast here.

No, Dave. Hey, you know what? We can just totally redo the podcast. You could walk around

and introduce all your old buddies. I'm a man. I probably can. Here we go. Here's Frankie and

Jaime right here. Here we are, gentlemen. Get in the cast. Get in the cast. Here we are.

Tell them they're on the show, Frankie. Yes. Yes, we're through it. We have definitely been doing some

full throttle talking. Frankie is your butt cheeks just there after that little spin you just had.

That's good. It was good. It was a little wet leave. A little wet leave stuff. Just a little bit of

wet leaves. Nothing big. Nothing's no problem. It was good. Everybody's good. We're doing a little

bit of mechanical pickup here. I won't keep everybody here too long, but we've got Chad. It's

Santiago. And here we have Kevin is trying to make sure that his wheels are still on his vehicle.

There we are. So this is Targa Carolina. Targa Carolina. We've probably got 125 cars, I think.

Something like that. Wow. That's a we're broken into a bunch of different groups and we're running

some amazing back roads out here in North Carolina up in the mountains. The days you can see from

the sunshine is absolutely glorious. And we got a cool killer group of cars in this group. I

happen to be designated the leader of this particular run pack. And we're going to have probably

another one go zoom in by us here in a minute since we just pulled over. But the day is fantastic.

And I just wanted to make sure I joined you guys for a minute at least to tell you how cool this

is. So awesome. Well, if I'm super stoked that I'm wearing a black quarter zip too.

There you go. I got a Sunday works t-shirt on underneath there, of course. That is here. We've already had

yeah, sorry. No, I'm sorry. When we've already had one incident with a Camaro, I think the leader of

another group may have gotten pulled over already. You guys call them Camaro's too, the cops?

Yeah, I think that became the universal pull. I think we probably picked it up from you guys out

there. Charles Stanley always says that's the only reason we'd ever be seeing the word Camaro. So

it's a good signal to, you know, to the team if there's a cops ahead. That was a hill country rally

thing. And the funny thing is I was on a rally with a vintage Camaro. And it just freaked him out

every time we got on the radio. So I assume in a Porsche only rally, you don't have to worry about

that. Well, no, we don't. But we've got we've got turbo. Go ahead. I'm sorry, Cam.

Don't be afraid. By the way, you are listening to full throttle talk. And we are, you know, all

over the world right now. I'm the Caribbean, Paul's in California. Case, are you in Maryland DC

area today? I am. Yep. And Dave is driving around in Appalachia and on some of the best driving

roads in the world. And so what we're going to be focusing on and Dave's going to stay with us

as long as he can and get back to enjoying his drive is we're focusing on what did you do in cars

this week? Automotive news. We're going to be talking about limited editions or numbered cars.

We're going to be talking about cars that won't go up in value that people think are collectible,

which I think it's going to be a fun segment. And we're going to talk. I did this one specifically

for Paul is Corvette, the new McLaren, his two favorite car. I'll see you super pumped up about it.

We'll just get right through that category as fast as possible.

I got it. You guys jump in. You keep going. I'm going to jump out. I appreciate everybody.

And have fun. We got to get back on the road. Hey, I'll see you this weekend, Dave.

Dave Drive. Jillian, I'll see you at lunch. Okay. We'll see you days. See you.

You got it. Thanks, Tim. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.

And then we're going to talk about old timers and young timers. This or that. And it gets

any listener questions as Dave signs off. There he is. I think it's a great angle. Yeah,

leave him there. And then we can then and then we can just put a little like little bubble talk

and just throw in answers for him. We have to leave it there. He doesn't know how to shop.

The zoom off phone. But that's fine. It's hilarious. All right. So guys, I'm going to let you know

ahead of time that I have prepared and per-casey suggestion. I'm not going to be giving you.

Oh, I saw you peaking the question that pop quiz questions. And I actually spent a lot of time

on trying to figure out some tough ones that you guys will definitely stumble over knowing that I'm

dealing with some Porsche experts. We'll see how expert you guys actually are. So get ready. All right.

So let's start out by what did you do in cars this week? Casey, you had some unbelievably cool

pictures that you were posting. I have lots of questions, but what's your response?

So two, I wanted to get into two different things. Number one, lots of 964 prep to make the drive

down to Loof this weekend. I got a lot of messages from listeners on on on Instagram about saying,

hey, how's the 964 coming along? All that stuff? I've just been focusing on making sure it's

road ready. I bought a charger for the the cigarette lighter because I realized I didn't have one

of those. And then everyone that I got stuck out of the dashboard too far that it was like

falling out. So I bought a $90 specific one from England that should be here. That's the correct

depth. And honestly, it has a cap over the top of it. I'll I'll do a product review next week

of that. I can't believe I spent $90 on a on a cigarette lighter insert, but I'm going to

have the car for a really long time. So it is what it is. Is this to go? What is it to charge?

USB-C and USB-A, your phone and stuff. Yeah. I figured with a couple of us traveling it probably made

sense. I've got a little USB input for the Blaupunk Frankfurt radio that's in it that doesn't really

charge things that quickly. And I figured if we're going to be in the car that long it makes sense.

Other thing that I wanted to touch base on is I am rarely excited and surprised by cars.

I drive stuff all the time that just kind of I get used to it. I get used to expensive things that

I figure in my mindset are going to be expensive and nice so it's not a surprise. But I did

principal photography the other day with my photographer on this beautiful 1967 4.2 liter XKE.

And I will tell you that I have never been more surprised at a car.

Is that what year is it? The 67 so it's the end of the series one with the glass to over headlights.

I was so surprised that after I finished photography my photographer and the owner and I went out

to dinner and I called my dad up on the phone who we've talked about before has a TR3 and I said

I was like you will not believe how impressed I was with an XKE. And he used to say yeah my buddy

burden I used to swap days back and forth. We drive back and forth to the city and either in his

60 I think it was a 66 XKE that was yellow. They do that one day and then take my dad's 60

Corvette the other day. So he's like this is just normal stuff for us. And I was like I can't I couldn't

believe how well the car drove how well it tracked it felt like a car that was 15 years newer.

It's kind of like when I drive my 914 compared to my dad's TR3 where it feels decades newer even

though it kind of is decades newer but it felt so far in the future and was an amazing experience.

I was blown away. I will I will absolutely own an XKE someday.

No question. I'm speaking of XKE's Casey. Did you get a chance to watch the recent Goodwood

Revival videos because there is a I don't know if you saw it Tim the XKE it was basically the

Jag XKE's and the Cobras the and just watching that battle with rain it was the most intense race

but the one thing you learn about the Jaguars is they were they were kind of like what 911 did

everyone else for the 60s I mean they just blew everyone away they were not just good looking

but they handled really well my only issue with them is they are a tight cabin for kind of a long

cigarette looking car it's just like the steering wheels like just right there but pretty cool cars

I loved it I loved it I thought it was it was great Tim do you have experience I do have

experienced a lot of old Jags when I had my detailing business the guy named Jack Roselli used to

buy and restore not just XKE's but the older ones the 120s and the 140s and all the rest of it

so I've driven all those as well and I agree completely and I'm the difference when you're driving

in any old car that's been restored maybe more than once is it really is the experience is dependent

on whoever restored it last because if you know that just as you're you're driving somebody's

interpretation of what it was supposed to feel like unless you're really working with someone that's

top drawer you know as far as the restoration place yeah sure so this car was restored about

35 years ago the paint is still in excellent shape but mechanically it is a sub 30,000 mile car

so it is a lot of the a lot of the underpinnings I did a whole lot of video and photos underneath

it's very original and I've got a mark expert coming out on Monday to do some further inspections

with me to make sure that everything's right well so to be clear you're putting this one for sale

on behalf of one of your clients on bring a trailer correct it's either going to go on bring a trailer

or another auction site the client and I are still discussing okay and listeners if you guys I mean

you hopefully you understand that all three of the guys Dave being the third are in the car

business and Dave's a I'm sorry Casey's a rep for bring a trailer so if you have any bring a trailer

potential cars in that region or really any place in the country definitely look Casey up his

contacts are down below if you want to Instagram any of these guys Casey I think that we put your

Instagram and whatnot in the description if not just send over to Ann and she'll put it in there

before I should all right cool so Kramer yeah I went to a couple I went to a couple cars and

coffee which for me is not easy getting out especially since Sunday I had to sneak out and use

Uber transportation which is unusual and there's a group of us that meet down in Lido and we've

talked about us before it's it it was started by my friend Andreas who basically him and four dads

who had newborns it was the only time they could get out was like six in the morning on Sunday

and now it's grown to be a pretty cool thing and and there's a lot of late model porches

but every once in a while you'll pick up kind of like some cool stuff nice 348 T.S.

this guy is just trying to get his coffee in but you can see kind of the cars there a lot of porches

but this one was kind of it just it really messed with me and I didn't get to talk to the owner

I had seen it on Saturday at cars and coffee and then I saw it again so it is a gimbal of body kit

and it's confusing because it's got tech art wheels which someone said he'd just put on

but it is a forest cabriolay and I don't know if this was built in period it was definitely a wide

body it looked very very nicely done like a can can red interior it was just it was one of those

things that I normally would really like hate you know for all the reasons I think Tim's grimacing

about it because it just seems sacrilegious but it's if it was done in period it it kind of sort of

sort of like how the slant knows conversions in period done right sort of exemplified it or

or you know the like when you see BMW heart keys and and and schnitzers and things like that

and gimbals you know a reputable company so that was one and then the other one that just kind of

I would say irritated me more than anything this is called project six it is a starts off as

a eighties Carrera that is then supercharged the engines done by bbi I think or pink it's one of

those cars that it feels like someone is writing the very last threads of the coattails of singer like

like there's just one try like we can get in one more shitty cheesy restomod um the build quality

is if you go to their website much more complimentary than what I saw in person and I guess I don't

know what they're asking for them it just seems like something that's been whipped together just to

sell yet another restomod which I am at the point where I think Porsche restomods have definitely

jumped the shark you know and I'm just kind of getting over it I wish I think we're now at the point

where I would just like to see go back to the old school days and Tim you'd probably agree with

this is sleepers I love a car that looks totally stock like an eighties you realize how much

in conflict what you liked and what now you are claiming you dislike are because what you're just

doing is you're basically disliking the thing that the that the grumpy Paul 30 years from now

is going to like like you are basically waxing poetic about it's heart good by the way not

and you're basically you're talking I know you're talking about Alpina and Harkey and Gambella

and all the rest of it you get it that's kind of yes yes I but you know I could be contradictory if

you give me decades in between to do it so and by the way wax poetic one for for you made it in

like 10 minutes awesome three is my goal per show three per show the color the color is great it's

Jay what like Jay green it's Jay green but like I said I don't this this was I think far more

interesting and I wish I could have agreed learn more because I'm surprised you liked that for

a whole bunch of reasons but the all the reasons you stated aren't the reasons that I'm surprised

you'd like to I'm surprised you liked it because it's convertible I didn't I didn't like it to own

what I liked about it and Casey can appreciate when you got really close to it like you get close

to this this car you're like oh that is one bandaid on top of another bandaid and it just look

cobbled together but when you got close to this car it would look so close to factory like I I

peeled up the the little edges here you know on the the tonneau cover just to see how that looks

because that's where you get hide stuff it looked just like a 993 cap really really well done so

the question is what did that what did that start as did it start as a c2 that they widened or

did it start as a c4 I mean I think they started as a 993 c4 s and I mean they did like this this

part here no fiberglass all steel it looks like turbo s flares and then I mean I was in a huge

fan of these like vents down at the bottom and I wish I would have taken a picture of the front

um but anyway it was I like to I like to is that a 914 in the reflection um in the oh no it's

oh Tim you would have liked I should have put a picture it was a 67 short wheelbase 911

behind my yellow yeah all the like this person bought like the whole rally catalog from 67 I mean

it had the old rally timers on there not just the clocks but the old school um I forgot

with the name of that halda halda rally timers it had the most interesting two spokes rally steering

wheel from the sixties um which two spokes steering wheels usually look like crap but um it's

well like I said it's a cars and coffee that I mean this this these are kind of growing on me I know

they're kind of not great cars but this was so clean um it just looked nice for those of you

guys who are listening mister I don't like Ferraris and Corvettes and don't deny it is now basically

putting up a picture of a 348 which is arguably the least desirable and I had a 348 by the way

arguably the least desirable of all the let's just say modern-ish you know post-inzo cars

yeah well I like I mean actually my favorite ones are a 400 eye or a mondial and I know that those

are both the I have a affinity to pick out the shittiest Ferraris but I think Ferraris have to get

to be 25 years old for me to actually find interest but still not enough interest to actually own so

so I'll share with you something that I learned just this morning so there's a lot of controversy

over the new Ferrari testero say 849 people seem to either you know like it or dislike the design of it

and then all these guys are aged essentially are saying why didn't you bring back the strikes from

the 1980s they didn't really they don't know the history of the Ferrari testero which you know

basically is it's about the valve cover it's not necessarily about the strikes all the rest of it

their history goes back to 1986 and not before that anyway so Ferrari had to put the strikes on

because the opening in order to comply with dot standards and for the intakes on the side were

evidently too large and so they had to put the strikes on there to keep you know small children

and children sucked in yeah so it was it wasn't it was like an oh shit design theme and so if

that's true it's I think that's well I'll bet you that wasn't for us in the US I'll bet you that

was like a German law that was a European law probably think about it we we have no pedestrian

standards here in the US and we I mean the Tesla truck is proof positive that we don't care what

the you know what the car hits but I think that was probably more of a German to sell the cars in

Europe or Germany have you actually ever studied that whole that passed the pedestrian laws with

regards to front end design have you Casey do you guys know about that I've not know I did just

because I was sort of interested in it so it's designed to basically the the front nose has to

be somewhat collapsible but it's designed to throw you on the hood so when you see these designs

they're supposed to basically have the pedestrian be tossed on the hood right then they won't be

they won't go underneath the car or or just yeah so here my my weekend cars I got back on my

simulator and I know you guys aren't sim fans but I did hear something I thought was really fast

and in case you'll appreciate this Paul you're just gonna have to sit tight so did you see Casey

that for staff in one in Nuremberg ring on and it for a year by a lot by a lot and it was freaking

first race and did you hear who his co-driver was did you how much did you study all this I did not

it was a sim guy so his sim guy that what we're seeing is a we're seeing essentially the

transference of sim racing skillset to actually real racing and that's pretty incredible and

it's fascinating when to me anyway when Verstappen came on the scene in Formula One people like you

know Sir Lewis Hamilton were like I don't win a sim race I have you know Mercedes has got somebody

does the sim you know I don't want to practice on the sim we have somebody else that we hired so

I don't have to do it this is a sort of bizarre mindset about being on a simulator and then Verstappen

is so addicted to sim racing and he uses a similar rig to what I have he uses a similar software

similar brake pedals the whole thing um and he wins everywhere and he knows all the tracks I think

we're we're gonna see is something different about essentially sim racing being you know taking

more seriously because we're able to see that skillset does transfer and yeah I think we'll talk

about it later but it's generational I mean Verstappen's considerably younger than how old's

Max Verstappen 30 yeah I don't think probably less 27 yeah so so we'll get into that part of

this later but but video games are generational especially video games that are that actually do

simulate actual driving so interesting yeah well I mean not to be a defender of simulators but

they it's not a video game I mean in essence it's it's really not that kind of you're right all right

and just just really quick on simulators I was listening to a podcast and um he's a

a older gentleman famous instructor um it was on the the podcast with Sam Smith it's not the car

great great podcast yeah really good podcast it's uh Ross um he wrote the book speed secrets and

training he gets hired a lot for that but but a well-known racer he burns a school with the

Nurburgring like once every year like a two-day school and he says there's like 20 weeks of prep

beforehand where he's sending all the participants like hey watch this do this and he says specifically

you need to be on some level of sim because you're got a two days at the course and if you don't do

the sim he says the people who are on the sims by lap two of the first day they are smiles and they

get it because they've been doing the sim and if you didn't do any sims by time you it takes a full

day just to acclimate and then have fun you've wasted half your trip well so he's he's in the sims

there you go since you guys are showing some interest in this I'll just nerd out on you just a smidge

um so when we are speccing our sim we got him got it from Lando Norris's brother Oliver Norris

cool performance I love with him to be a sponsor but they're not anyway so um I was asking all

of her which is you know Lando's brother why don't you have movement on your sim and so I'm curious

what you guys think so why do you think I'll just even set it up even more uh distinctly why do you

think professional drivers like Max don't have sims that move my guess is that it's not going to move

enough close to what reality is so why just stored it and then they just want to learn the track

they just want to learn elevation uh turn in uh apex I mean that's my guess so I would I would

okay so you guys are really close the reason is is because the simulator uh cannot simulate the

actual movements and and so what happens is there's a tiny little gap and if your brain is learning

of like middle high of sports car track where I was over the weekend if your brain is on middle

high of sports car track and then you're actually going to race it in real life if it is if it's not

one for one you've actually programmed your brain in around an incorrect data set for being competitive

on the track and it'll completely screw up up everything you do and you have to relearn it all but

in order to relearn it all you have to forget what you thought you already knew that's why and so

evidently there's no movement simulator that the professional drivers ever want to use for that

reason so I thought that was fascinating um okay so are we doing what are you wearing and watches

this week yeah picture why not let's go man give me a minute yeah I uh and actually this

too bad Dave's not here because what he wore last week and then this picture I thought would be

a little better was basically the new version of this and I'm not a one of those weirdos who's

gotta get the the year of my birth but when I bought the watch you say goes really easy to decode

when it was made this is called a saco sport I can't remember it's built it was basically made

four days before I was born the end of March 1969 and it's just um I liked it because it reminds me

of the speedmaster tintin you know you I think Casey's a speedmaster fan and it's called the rally

timer um it it's it was not it was like the really high quality of the inexpensive like the most

expensive of the inexpensive brands before you jumped into Rolex or Omega um I forgot what they

were new probably I wanted to point something out Casey do you notice how Paul wanted to talk

about what are you wearing in watches this week when I told him there was a quiz coming did you

notice that I'm just I just I don't because this would I mean this was absolutely not part of the

plan at all so I had to go find one so luckily I'm in the room where watches are kept awesome Casey

wearing Tim my submariner from last week uh I broke out the uh my speedmaster um this watch

is uh is special to me because I like watches that are part of history um I like things that

defined an era and to me the classic speedmaster look is important as I've discussed before

I think speedmasters should come with Hesse light uh crystals on them because I do believe that the

way that it was taken to the moon should be the way that it's represented I'm not a big fan of the

sapphire sandwich that they come with them um and I think I'm also gonna wear this I was gonna

wear this or my say go to luft this weekend I'm not sure but I'll probably wear the uh the speedmaster

because I've not worn it in a bit normally anytime I go anywhere near water I wear my uh kind of

homemade say go and I'll I'll talk about that one next week all right ready for the quiz first

here we go all right Porsche famously engineered I'm going to keep the first question should be easy

Porsche famously engineered the door thunk of the 9-11 to sound perfect which of these did

Porsche engineers reportedly compare it to during development option a a cathedral bell

option b choice b a bank vault closing option c a champagne cork popping could be you don't

not you never know look at you guys you're thinking no no no no Kramer I see your fingers moving

you cannot chat GPT this all right hand no I'm not worried about Casey I know Paul's gonna google I

would say option no I'm not done I'm not done yet or a guitar or guitar power cord uh and

Casey you get to go first since he rudely jumped in on there you know I always think it sounds like

opening like a really fresh beer on a wonderful day like in a can um but I can almost guarantee

that that's not the answer we always likened it to a bank vault um I'll say bank vault

don't you think it's ironic that you worked a car dealership and you related the sound of a 9-11

door opening to a bank vault I mean well that 9-11 old 9-11's not necessarily new 9-11's but when

they had the the trim like an SC anything up through 9-9-3 they all sounded good once you got up the

water cool cars when they lost the framing around the top they didn't sound that great but I still

think G-wagon's probably a better door sounding door closing sound than 9-11's but super close

you guys are both right dammit I mean the the thing I for me is um you're talking about opening

or closing it's closing right that thing yeah correct or or opening yeah I mean I always I always

thought I mean part of it's just they know they get the door on right and for whatever reason I

thought I remember reading something about like a tuning fork or some kind of like something

that was more of an auditory musical thing and that's why I said that the church bells or whatever

I mean don't you think honestly of all the you know USPs if you want to call out that of the old 9-11's

in particular that is absolutely the most unthrawing because it's such a unique experience the shape is

different all the things are different and then when you just pull in that you know metal handle

and you hear these mechanical things working what other old cars sound like that um or old Mercedes

I think they're pretty close I would say that and the key on the left kind of like sobs have

the key in the the side console um I would say key on the left for so long with the air cooled

which is funny because then when they went to water cooled 9-24s 9-44s all that they went to

the traditional one which I always wondered why they give up on their history on that one might

be an Audi thing who knows so what was the answer was it was it all right you guys got it right

back bolt thank but oh Casey got it right I was I was chimes or musical okay case so that's we're

gonna keep uh score today of course I got right too but I came up with the question so I can't

use that all right let's move on to segment two automotive news uh Casey what an automotive news

caught oh this is a good oh very good I was going to talk about that as well so um let's roll in

automotive news that caught your attention Casey uh so I remember when in 2009 when Porsche debuted

the actually 2000 and yeah 2009 when Porsche updated to PCM 3.1 and that was the first year that they

put touchscreen radios and cars and before then Porsche was like we don't want to do touch screens

because the screens get dirty and you know it you know it's all this it's all this rigmarole

so as the era is progressed you know we got more and screens and more screens and more screens

and then the other day um Porsche announced that the new Cayenne is gonna have screens everywhere it's

gonna have a bent screen in the middle it's gonna have a big screen in front of the passenger a big

screen in front of the driver and when this news came out um I was uh I was sitting in a 997 GT2 RS

I was just I was waiting for the car to come up to temperature I just turned on Instagram and

popped up and I literally looked in front of me and I saw those perfect gauges I saw the red rim

of the top of the steering wheel and I was just sitting there and I was like this is not a selling point

to me and then I realized at that moment that I am no longer the enthusiast is not the target market

for Porsche which is perfectly fine because there are gonna be people that are gonna love this

they love screens they love the fact that you can watch youtube in the passenger seat all this stuff

they're gonna love it it's not for me I specifically did not buy I bought my s4 versus a a 6 all-road

because I wanted actual buttons to control HVAC controls I did not want a screen that was the key

reason why I bought my s4 versus the a6 um and it screens just aren't for me um and unfortunately

it's it's the way it's gonna go well I put this to you guys in WhatsApp I mean how long ago

was it that the Germans I think it was Porsche refused to put a flipping cup holder in the car and

they said when it was Porsche right and it was I can't do a German accent for shit but when you're

driving you do not drink you know something right well they were always fast at the fact that we like

to consume food and beverages I mean there's no drive-thrues I mean now look at the interior no it I

mean I'm not as far as design goes it's it's pretty freaking crazy but that is just nothing but

driver distraction I just completely and totally when I saw that I thought my half my brain said well

that looks really cool but the other half said I hate it and furthermore how the hell is that

gonna age who cares right it's a throwaway car throwaway car that's a three three year lease that's

right that's it it's a three year lease from this sorry thirty thirty nine month lease that's

always a sweet spot yeah I mean that's this it kind of breaks my heart I mean I'm just interpreting

what Casey said and I agree go ahead Paul well as I say just like we mentioned WhatsApp if these cars

are actually built in Tennessee and they really lean it now they're they're day-to-day seeing who

they're actual buying customers they're gonna have a thing for waffle house waffles to be held

in the car while you're driving you could have your bone-in chicken from hearties just they're

gonna have the smothered in covered edition you know and this is just a kind of a weird story

a long time ago and another career I had a client he was in the middle Atlantic and Richmond

Virginia and I would go and we we did playgrounds and and interiors for fast trade restaurants and

Burger King was one of his big clients and I'd spend all day going for one Burger King to another

and he would in the morning stop and get like the Burger King waffle french toast sticks

and in his Nissan Centro that he was putting 20,000 a miles a month on he he would have this

like a gimbal that would keep the syrup on the steering wheel in a cradle so when you were

turning you could go like maybe 90 degrees of turning it would stay level and he had another

one to hold his french toast sticks and he would just dip him as he's driving along

that's the most American thing I've ever heard it's so light trash you should patent that and sell

to Porsche I mean honestly they'll they'll be a lot of putting it in the car dude look they could

took they could put stitching on it they could make out a carbon fiber cell doesn't option whatever

all right let's go brand with one of the fast food joints if by the way we have an upcoming

question about what percent of the cars that Porsche sells into pop quiz oh I'm not gonna tell you

you guys will go when I'm not walking all right Paul will us Willis Springs Raceway why did

that catch your eye as you're well it's Willis Springs and I'm sure Tim you've been on Willis Springs

Raceway I have no except to my sim well it is it's just an iconic race track I've probably done a

thousand laps on it it's where you first go to learn to drive it's an hour an hour and 15 minutes

outside of LA it's where so much production I mean it's his it's the oldest race track in the US

you go you know dedicated racetrack herbie films were filmed there for versus Ferrari recently

and it has been just dying on the vine we've been watching it the the same family owned it they

didn't want to do you know really anything to to to save the track and it came up for sale there

was all kinds of jokes about it being you know sold and I think the old crockety guys were like

you know what we're gonna lose our track days and I'm like you're gonna lose it anyway because this

is gonna get plowed over and it's gonna get turned into whatever strip mall and anyway so last year

a large VC company um trying to find the name of it they bought the whole track in partnership with

Singer so it's the same I think I think Singer is loaned largely by a large VC company now too

yes so that's the probably the same group of investors exactly and when you look at what they're

doing I mean that they have such a long runway because this is so expensive I mean the millions of

dollars this is just streets of willows and if you've been there before um it was sketchy I mean

this I can't show it to you but the the bottom of the screen that was this little ramp that if you

went off where the the green stripes are they weren't there you would just launch into into space

and then crash and then the infields were just treacherous um I can't imagine the tens of million

dollars just to fix the streets of will they put a a world-class go-kart track but what's really

cool is they are building Willow Springs to be an FIA two-level track which means you're gonna

being first of all IMSA there's gonna be finally pro races right outside of Los Angeles and I think

for some and I think this is gonna give Laguna Seca a run for the money um across the track I

have insider knowledge a friend of mine lives there at the track they're building hotels across

the street from the entrance because that was the other problems you had to go to you know

methe landcaster to go get any kind of lodging and and and then the other side you have inwards

Air Force Base you know it's just this has been dying to happen and it needed someone with a lot

of money who's gonna bring you know in terms of the local guy who's gonna go there on a Friday

test and tune probably not but there will be track opportunities and I'm wondering are we gonna

get a singer driving experience I mean it'll be expensive but imagine to go in there and maybe

you spend a thousand dollars for you know a two-session day to drive an actual singer so but they are

having a big big event um coming up I think um and I if I don't go on the rally I'm definitely gonna

try to figure out a way to go to this but it's sort of their big opening day um and it'll be

who's who of everyone in the car world in southern California kind of our version of Lufcule but

I'm sure they're excited about it and the thing that they made really clear which I was happy to hear

was it's not just gonna become yet another you know closed country club tight deal and it's gonna

be continued essentially be what it's always been that I thought was really special yes you nailed

it Tim because that's the problem is it all of a sudden doors closed you gotta buy a house they're

gonna build properties exactly none of that it's gonna be still a lot of people you know

manufacturers running the track and so forth but there will be opportunities for just mere mortals

to get on the track and drive and it's going to be so much safer I mean I remember if my friends

would come out from the east coast to do a club race with BMW club with us they were so afraid of

Willow Springs and it's really a stupid track it's literally nine freeway on ramps with two big

straightaways but it is brick and fast it is I mean in my Z you know Z3M coupe you're averaging on

this three mile track 105 miles an hour which is a lot for just a regular street car and I remember

they would just come through just freaking out because if you went off the track for sure your car

was totaled for sure if you were not injured I watched club racers go into the middle infield and

literally shatter their black back because they just disappeared into a ravine I watched people

send our punch the wall between pit lane coming out of turn nine I mean just it was a treacherous

track so the fact that it's going to be safer it's going to be awesome you know if that's going to be

on FIA track because that it'll be FIA 2 okay so that means they're gonna have tech pro barriers that

means they're gonna have correct timing and scoring that means they're gonna have all the safety

crap that basically a formula one track would have yeah but here's the thing is like Laguna Saka is

really our only pro track on the west coast where you get like GP motorcycles and Imsa and stuff

like that or NASCAR and even that or I guess you have Sonoma too yeah Sonoma yeah but those tracks

the infrastructure so compact and it's hard and Laguna Saka has noise issues I'm sure Sonoma is

coming right behind that so this has tons of land and I'm excited to see I mean imagine I can

drive an hour outside of LA and watch a real Imsa race and not have to fly to Atlanta to go see it

in real pro level road races I'm excited yeah I didn't realize there was the oldest you know

historic track in the United States where was it the James Dean was driving when he was killed what

track was it was it will he was going no no he was on his way to Salinas and that would have been

airport most of the tracks in the 50s were airport tracks they were just runways that they would

put hay bales on this was built in 1953 so it's really funny if you watch the old herbie movies

they run it like backwards forwards they're just because they're just doing one corner there's people

on the inside of nine which is frickin ballsy with lawn chairs just watching the race go on it's

crazy that is crazy have you guys ever been to a professional rally before like the types that

they run through the woods and whatnot I love sounds awesome oh yeah well except for the fact

you get to watch basically people that are reached them their hands out into this day and trying

to touch the cars as they go by yeah in the United States Julie and I went to one that was in

the woods and that's what we saw and there was total idiots and there was like the nearest EMS

wasn't even you know it was miles miles away natural selection right there in front of you right

you get to see it all play out all right well I have another pop quiz question and hopefully

this one's gonna hold you guys up a little bit more here we go all right when the cayenne launched

in 2002 pure screen betrayal yet save porcia so what percentage of porches sold today are SUVs

I'm gonna give you three or four choices 30 percent 50 percent Paul what are you doing with your

fingers right now get it that many percent 90 percent all right what percent of porches sold

in the United States are SUVs Paul go for 70 70 percent where do you think Casey I would

agree it's 70 percent is that surprise either one of you guys no yeah I think if you if you put

in all the four door which have been tycoons and panameras I'll bet you get close to 90 percent

yeah is there a number for all four doors that porcia sells I don't have it in my questions

but you'll get you guys are gonna love the next pop quiz all right so let's move on let's talk about

limited editions or numbered cars this is this this is something that I have always found to be a

absolutely crazy topic because what is one man's limited edition is another man's I'll pass on it

because clearly the dealer couldn't sell it to Casey's point that Bernadette's about to talk about

so what is my question is is what is a true limited edition uh you know what is the maximum

production that we can all agree on absolutely say no more and make one more than this it's just

a production car yeah can we establish some rules for the odd mode industry to follow right now uh

Casey you go first Casey you go first well I think it's a moving as far as I think it's a moving

target right so the car behind me is something that released in 2011ish which I'd loved to own one of

these it's a Boxter S black edition um so basically it had black edition kind of embossed in the

roof and then had a bunch of piano black trim and black wheels at black wheels from the uh what was

it the came in our or the Boxter spider from that era a bunch of other stuff but porcia did black

editions of 9-11's too um yeah so basically what I saw this car and a lot of the other cars in

this era were buildouts they needed to get rid of chassis as they needed to get rid of parts that

were on cars and they they were actually pretty decent values I have no idea how many of each one

of these cars that they made but it was a limited edition car well let's talk let's talk about

numbers though I mean as far as like is there a maximum number of cars because what was it I mean

just a real sin here because a lot of people talk about this you guys know this but like if you

looked at a 997.2 four-liter they made 600 of those right right okay can we can we benchmark that

that would be a genuinely limited edition car yes it has to be fewer okay and then and then the

9-11R was 991 which I think was pushing the envelope I agree I and I think it's also based on

manufacture so like a porcia I really think if porcia is going to do a limited edition it should be

under a thousand maybe under 750 if it's someone like you know Lamborghini who makes a lot less cars

well who knows with the SUV now but I think a Lamborghini or a Ferrari it has to be way under

500 350 250 a hundred or whatever we'll talk about Ferrari in a second at Casey what the

career GT I mean what's the history of that because wasn't that supposed to be some of the limited

cars so they were supposed to Paul Krick me if I'm wrong but they were supposed to build 1,250 of them

I think was the number supposed to be less but they know they way exceeded production

they did and they told people that they were going to build a smaller amount and they built more

and I don't believe there was a class action lawsuit but there was a whole bunch of really

upset people so and if you look at the the way that that car is ferrid over time I mean I remember

getting offered those cars for 300 grand back in 2010 2011 and I was like you're crazy that's

way too much money for that car and now that's a really good like that car I remember and I remember

we drove it in the snow for our Daytona launch party I've got a picture of it in the snow but

that was harrowing and it would shoot rooster tails out of the back of it like a Lamol LMP car going

down malson in the rain but but that that car had 800 miles on it 300 grand and didn't make

any sense back then of course hindsight's 2020 but yeah I would agree I think a car absolutely

needs to be sub a thousand units to be especially for a bigger manufacturer because I think that

limited editions are going to continue growing larger because they need to be able to justify

the cost and the expense of making those parts for at least a manufacturer like Porsche.

Well what's the breaking I mean I get what you guys are saying but I think personally a thousand

seems like way too many to me I mean that's well especially with Porsche because Porsche doesn't make

like here's a limited edition for all 997s they make like so many limited editions like it seems like

every year for one of their product lines whether it's a boxer came in or 9-11 or whatever I mean

there's there's kind limited editions I mean it like it gets a point where who cares it's like

we laugh at the limited editions well except except the markets willing to pay all the money for

something with a little numbered plaque on it not always well that's true and that but that's the

question so where do you where do you draw the line and what's limited is more people come up this

is the problem I think it's going to happen with Porsche is exactly what you just said and everybody

their brother's going to have a numbered freaking car it's going to completely you know it's going

to oversaturate whatever perception the market has as far as the limited edition if I were in

Porsche and I earned the dire straits financially and I was the new CEO that's what I would do wouldn't

you how else are you going to make you need to make money now that's what you're going to do I mean

it seems to work totally it just does and so if you look at like for example the 9th the ST how many

they ended up making of those things nineteen one thousand nine hundred sixty-three the stupid number

the first time we built a nine eleven okay I mean and then those you know are is that limited edition

they made you know not nineteen forty eight of the speedster they made to you know all these things

so I'm I will say it's it'll be interesting to see how the market reacts as more limited editions

with number even numbered cars comes to market to see if those things start to lose a little bit

of their shine they made nine hundred eighteen Porsche nine eighteen spiders which I love

the mark it's so cute it's so stupid but the reality is they would have made one thousand nine

hundred eighteen of those if they could have sold the nine hundred eight they barely could get rid

of the nine hundred eighteen they made yeah I mean they were doing everything to sell those cars

and the fact that they were nine hundred thousand new and they were selling them for like a hundred

off MSRP was hilarious so we so in terms of limited edition I was out doing a run yesterday

in a car and a blue nine eleven was approaching me on the other side of route 50 and I was like oh

that looks good because it looked like maritime but it went by and it was a it was a 60th club

coupe which is a really awesome car I was lucky enough to sell one of them they made 60 of them for

the Porsche Club of America they had duct tails on them just a great looking car specific color but I

remember I'm Tim you probably listened to it but on the PCA podcast a couple of months ago Michael

Tam was on and they were Michael Tam's head of two doors production for Porsche cars North America

were basically view and he were discussing the procurement of 70 cars for the 70th anniversary

of Porsche Club of America and we of course we've discussed this car before but they had to plan

this years in advance to to figure out exactly what kind of car they were doing so when it comes

to these limited edition cars especially things that are run through Sundervunch like there is a limited

amount of cars that they can do per year and I thought that was really interesting that how far

these need to be planned in advance because it's more than just a color and some stitching those kind

of things they have to completely augment production so that that's the kind of thing where they have

they have to do enough cars to make it make sense so if you want to predictor and you guys argue

with me about this as to whether or not something's going to be seen or really is a true limited edition

or numbered cars and we'll just use Porsche and pick on Porsche if it was put together by the

marketing department or the GT book department so the GT department did it then it's going to be

something I think long term will be special if it was a marketing department type situation where

it's fabrics and paints and stickers even if it's numbered I'm just question can you guys think

me an example or I'm wrong about that I think the one you just yeah I mean the one I just said I mean

a 60 60th club coop is a $200,000 car all day long yeah but but also like you mentioned with

the car 50 of those right 60 they made 60 that one they made a they made one in a zero california it

was like 2005 or 2000 yeah it was a 996 it was 0 california over 10 I think yeah there was a 997.1

the 0.05 introduction had the club coop I remember the PCA Orange Coast region president got

picked it was a drawing to get to buy the car at MSRP which we're like oh good you get you want

a drawing to pay a hundred thousand dollars for a car that you don't get to choose anything on

and we laugh at it now but today to get the allocation to get this special thing at MSRP

actually does have a value but I think you from a customer standpoint I look at the car behind you

the 996 turbo S they always seem like these special cars were just like liquidation sale end

a production line how what do we got a lot of how do we get rid of it um I mean it it and it's been

having for years the Jubilee edition I mean that was leftover turbos at no one bought no one bought

the turbo body and they had a bunch of all-wheel drive systems and we'll talk about that car later but I

just for me uh partial will never do it because they're in the business of making money and I don't

blame them for making as many cars as you could sell but for going to companies like Ferrari that

have notoriously just are about building something unique and special and I made maybe Ferrari's left

that game I want to see them do 200 cars I want to see a Lotus who doesn't make as many cars do

50 cars I mean serious low production but in the end of the day those companies aren't here for us

to sell limited edition they're there to make money and if that doesn't make sense which it can't

in today's economy then why would they so what non limited edition or numbered cars hold value

or increase in value despite how many are made and I'll I'm going to tie in something Jay Leno said

he said porches are expensive even though they're not rare I think that's a really fantastic quote

but can you guys think of an I mean we're all in a 9.11 right well so like the 991.2 GT3 touring which

I thought this when you really look at it was pretty funny everyone screamed when the 991 GT3 came

out in 2013-14 because they didn't offer a manual and the Germans when you talk to my friends

at Porsche they're like why would you want some manual it's slower like you want a track car

you want fast why would you want a manual it doesn't make sense 9.11 R comes out there's a

voracious appetite and basically anti-prinja the 9.11 R was really the reason was they knew

they're going to put a manual in the car and they had to have a mass production to do it so you

you could buy a wing car with a manual or the touring only came in manual now what do you guys

think the the take rate was for the for the manual transmission and look at the numbers I had

I mean I sold or for the touring for the 991.2 Trees which were not limited edition

Porsche it was a zero cost option you just check the box for touring you get a manual I will tell you

you had to get allocation oh I'm pretty sure in that era you had to get a specific you know

I might be wrong Paul I apologize well how many of those so here's world production I

do I couldn't really get North America world production 991.2 GT3 touring all I'm not touring

just all 991.2 GT3s they made 9500 total cars for the world winged touring's manual whatever

touring's they made 600 for the world what that's it and that's why when you go do a search

part of the reason why the price hold on hold on hold on hold on is you're saying that the total

production global production for 991.2 touring is 600 yes and that's because the take rate what

everyone screamed we want a manual but when it came time for the guy who's going to put down

these cars were 150 to 190 11 hours did they make 991 so you're telling me as there's more rare

that is a limited they weren't a limited edition I mean I'm Paul I believe your research

to me I sold three touring's 991.2 cars one to a super good friend of mine

that literally picked it up in Germany and went straight to the Nürburgring but

it's hard for me to believe that that's that's the right number but why do you guys have to fire up

chat GPT so we can get to the bottom of that how about this how about why don't I call my buddy at

Porsche and ask him for a real number yeah no Paul's on it Paul does not want to be proven wrong

so I mean I couldn't here's the thing is I couldn't believe the number but but I remember going back

to 2019 we sold two touring's and when I was trying to price them out and this is before the

market took off you would crack up it was the first time I in 20 years of doing this buyers were

calling me not asking me what options were on the car all they cared about was the MSRP and I'm

like what the hell does the MSRP matter they wanted their whole justification was what's the current

sale price in relationships the MSRP not what options does it have sports seats does it have buckets

whatever and it was the first time I'm like what is the people's obsession with MSRP and then when

I started to look around for cars for sale to cop it it would be a hundred winged cars in like

two touring's for sale and I think we see more touring's now because there's money as we'll see

later in the you know when we talk about you know this and that there's just big money and I think

part of the number is because the take rate was so low now what's funny is when you get to the

modern car like 992 GT3 touring or GT3s and GT4s the take rate on manuals is so high that there's

almost no difference between the PDK cars in terms of resale value and the manuals because everyone

bought a manual thinking oh it's going to be worth a lot and now you just have a you know it's

almost like 50 50 production numbers and in the end of the day I think modern buyers want the PDK

because guess what your instant rock star you look like a rock star when you drive a PDK that

thing is such a great transmission it's so fast and if you get a manual even with auto blip you still

kind of have to learn to drive you're going to have to learn to shift and you're going to be

slower than your friend in the canyon on day one so you don't want to be embarrassed so anyway

well we're talking limited editions right so I know that it's difficult when I work for Portia to

get paint a sample cars they had X amount of allocations for months you could traditionally work

the system a little bit to push out allocation but I believe a lot of what that craze is now

for paint to sample is almost creating your own limited edition car like you look at the I put

in the notes 992 turbo market so if you have a 992 turbo and it's a paint to sample car that's

traditionally even as a used car over MSRP as long as all of the things don't happen so you're

effectively creating something that could be could have a number on it I mean you go to there's

certain people online that will list a vehicle for sale this is one of 18 in this color like I

have no idea how they got that information Portia doesn't share that information so unless you

went and counted vins or something like that but they it's interesting how people are almost

creating this now and perhaps that's why we're seeing such a drive for people that want that more

exclusive thing even though you know if you just buy a like a like let's say a white ST like that's

got to be the rarest thing in the world right because everybody got paint the sample or shore blue

or black or one of these other colors but if you really drill down like it was kind of like our

friend that we'll talk about later in a future podcast you pick the standard color that might not

have been picked that often and that's almost more more rare than a paint the sample offering

sorry bit of a random no that's a good rant though because that means that things like

guards red which for a long time people are running away from is going to become popular again

because no one's choosing it anymore you know now it's paint it now it's paint the sample to get

garbage red is yeah it's not oh my gosh what's this I'm not wrong I didn't have this in the

outline but I asked you guys this question so what is your favorite standard uh Portia color

right now what's if you had to spec a card today which is the color you're going for I don't

what is standard I don't know what they are I'm sorry uh

not black and not white listeners this is what happens when they don't have the questions ahead

of time just so they get they get sweaty and they get nervous I would say whatever the whatever

the free if there's green that if there's a shaded green that's free or a shade of blue that's

free there's a shade of green no no metallics will be free so I would I'd tell you probably GT silver

which is probably an eight hundred dollar option so you got to give me that what's that's a great

color what's the green that I'm thinking of it's a new color it's a green neo there you go yeah

that'd be my that's absolutely what I would choose I would probably choose the same or whatever the

blue whatever the the free blue is um and the thing that was unusual like I remember when Matt got

the frozen berry that was a free color or uh just just a metallic upgrade or whatever it was

how can you not do how can what can you do better than oak green neo or oak green that's such a

you guys remember you guys remember the Goldie Han movie where she was dating the uh guy with

a 9-11 turbo you remember that what's in the oak green is they're driving down that road the

tree line road do you remember that scene I'm just thinking the movie overboard overboard was a dope

movie uh with the with the ship captain yeah Kurt Russell great movie I don't know that one

Tim I'm sorry and by the way when we were talking about limit editions I mean the one thing I

didn't get talked about was the strato I love this car and I and if you want to know a car that

will probably tank I'll love it from the get go which means that car is going to tank because

no one else loves it when this came out I was like I would almost get this over the car I would and

you look at the these cars were like 350 MSRP and now they're all in the high twos with no miles

listed price they're probably going a little bit lower um they didn't make I forgot how many

they made they didn't make a whole lot of them um and I think it would have made more because I

couldn't sell them yeah but I mean like like one of my favorite scenes and I couldn't find it was

Matt Ferro was at um Thunder Hill and he's doing this lap and you can see the drone footage

and there's this S's and he just freaking cuts the S's through the dirt onto the track through the

dirt and I was like to do that in a Lamborghini like Porsche you expect it but Lamborghini is just so

authentic ostentatious to be able to do that and I just I mean they look cooler they're not as

garish for which is weird to say for Lamborghini but like how cool well it's a first of all it's a

German car so let's just call oh that's right it's German I can't say I just put it out there it's

Volkswagen group it's a Volkswagen group car you put one up that's what you see from Stem just

earned Audi and Volkswagen symbols but that car v10 motor how the Dakar if it was just product

to product that's so so much cooler in my opinion I agree aren't to cars right now reselling for

high twos yeah high twos low threes but I think Paul the the thing that you can look back at Porsche's

history and see that they ran rallies in cars I don't know a whole lot about Lamborghini's history

but to my knowledge they didn't run they did not run mirrors in the Paris de Car Rally they should

they might have run LMO but they they didn't I mean maybe an LMO two or something they built that

which is you know and they but that's the thing is I know do you really think the car buyers are

going man I am buying this because I'm buying into the heritage of all of what Porsche has done

in off road which I think is amazing and I love watching that stuff but the end of the day the guy

who bought the Dakar to me I think is 90% of them are just profiling that's all it is like look what

I got especially if you get the whole graphics package I mean not a few clients that were did tasteful

orders and as much as that car is cool I know how women's last time well you live on an island

so you wind up but when was the last time you saw a strato on the street why would you there's a

Lamborghini dealer here in okay all right so on your island I've never seen one yeah I'm in

Southern California which if you're going to see one but so this we're circling around about the

limited edition so there's a non-numbered car which is weird which is a last of us kind the new

replacement fat thing as a yeah I don't even know twin turbocharged electric motor V8 thing that's a

cool car and the only problem I have with it is it's a Lamborghini which is the Lambo's and the

whole thing and so if I bought one of these I would I would do everything to debatge it I mean I

almost would want to put an ultimate decal on the back yeah Paul that'll do it you know who would

drive Dave would drive that car 100% Dave would drive that car yeah let's throw him under the bus

yeah he could he borrow some he borrow some at Paul's gold chains Tim's Tim's two-tone Rolex you know

it just be I don't have a two-tone Rolex I'm sorry single single gold gold Daytona how about that

perfect I would I would get a gold Daytona but I would have to have a leather band just for the

or the rubber one so yes you guys are pretty good at calling my watch fantasies that's true

but Dave would borrow it though that's the most important thing he'd have to swap out that

Seiko for that day I say Paul next week it's pick on Casey that that's the show for next week so

make sure we're very ahead of time all right so segment number five where I think we're transitioning

perfectly so the Corvette is the Corvette the new McLaren now I thought of this because Matt

Ferri and we're gonna post it in show notes did a really kick-ass video on driving what he called

the touring version of the Zio sex hopefully you guys had time to watch that video thank you sir

and he loved it and I've known a lot of other people and I love what he said I honestly I mean

first car reviewers Matt's one of my top three for sure and he basically loved it he loved the car

there's a media of synchrocies that he that he discovered and I'm just I was thinking I don't think

the market on a whole or at least guys over maybe I mean 40 really see what Corvette's gonna do

to the marketplace it is a GM product but it's got its own brand and this is just me you know

predicting what's gonna happen that car the ZR1 the ZR1 X all these things they're gonna start

coming out with hyper cars based on the same um there you go they're gonna start coming out with

hyper cars that are variants of you know the just like McLaren does with everything basically

being a version of the 720 at the end of the day I bet you Corvette's gonna do the same thing and

we're just getting started with that brand so did you guys watch the video and what do you think about

my little mini rant yeah watch the video and you know and it's it's tough I think

you Zach and Matt have always been a fan of the Corvette and they've said it before it democratized

sports car ownership would they say they modeled it after a Ferrari 4 5 8 or literally bought

GM but I have a question before you answer Paul if GM totally rebranded this thing and gave it

it wasn't called a Corvette anymore just for a second would your mindset about the brand change

if it's a new brand no longer Corvette and you're and Jennifer will actually be seen in one now

and not you're not sneer at it it's not something amazing an amazing name no longer Corvette but it's

American made because I do notice my friend that when it comes to us talking about the Hennessees

and the other American sports cars as super cars you don't seem to have such a hard line against

the brand so I don't I don't care for the only I would say the only

American sports car that I find really interesting is what Mustang is done starting with the GT350

the 350R all the way to the GTD I think those are really interesting cars I've never experienced

well I've sold a couple GT350 but I haven't driven them really in the mountains it's just you know

test drive and they're just typical you know torque and power I don't know I find the Corvette's

visually garish and like I've always said that the problem I've had with Corvette's is they're

like a sugar gum like Riggley's gum no longer Corvette no longer Corvette oh that would be I

I would agree I would agree that part of the part of the problem is just the badge the name the

association I have a theory I think you had your ass kicked in high school by somebody had a Corvette

that had to happen there was some kind of abuse in your background no it worse my dad wanted a Corvette

oh boy he really wanted a Corvette and and in the late 90s American Express put on this test

thing they paid him to come drive a 996 is like 99 996 just came out a boxer Corvette would have

been a C5 just came out I think was a C5 yep and there's a few other sports cars Mercedes offering

and here's the guy who really well he really wanted a Ferrari he wanted a 275 GTB he wanted a

550 Maranello he they would he always he wouldn't buy one as they wouldn't let him test drive one

so but the Corvette to him was what appeal to is a democratized sports car he could have something

like a Ferrari on a on a fraction of the price without all the bullshit and all the other stuff

you know he went on this test drive through Malibu and after driving it and he grew up with

Mercedes and German cars he's like I could never buy that car yeah but that's a C5 I know I know

and then he bought a 996 turbo which by the way this was the guy who said to me my whole life

driving a 911 is just a glorified beetle that was my whole life impression of a Porsche so yes I grew

up with someone who wanted Corvettes my wife's total disdain for Corvettes is on the other end of the

spectrum I've been somewhere kind of in the middle I will have to say I don't visually like the

look of the new one from day one I was probably one of the few people I just thought the and I

I thought the C7 was a much prettier car I actually like the C7 despite all the the the boomer

George new balance okay Casey what's your opinion it's Corvette gonna become the new McLaren

and you are totally gonna get George for your Bert or for Christmas by the way or Hanukkah go

ahead Casey so I will preface this by saying that my wife and I drove away from our wedding in a

1960 Corvette okay so red white sides white interior beautiful car we had the car it's a story for

another time but it was a part of our family for a long time I had zero issues with Corvettes we

own Mustangs two American cars are fine with me when I see my experience with C8 Corvettes

is when I was at the dealership and then when I had I have some clients now that have procured them

they would go for way over MSRP initially and basically what that caused was people buying these

cars and then them absolutely losing their butts and I then saw the same thing with McLaren I saw

people buying 675 LT's 720's 765's and they all they're like all this is I got it the first one I

paid $50,000 over on good now they're not worth much and to me especially like when those people

were but they're like oh yeah I got the ZO6 for 50 grand over you know I know that that's coming

like I saw that ZR1 that no sale don't bring a trailer for like 380 grand AC the ZO6 is

are seriously depreciating there's supposedly an enormous number of them that are sitting

unsold on dealers lots but it's history it's history continuing to repeat itself and that value

question because that's not I mean the essence of the question is it's I mean I get what you're

getting out I mean basically McLaren did the same thing but I'm I'm going to suggest you guys

that Porsche I think will agree is the probably arguably as far as big producers the last holdout

for where you can get away with you know paying over for your car I put on our Instagram

I don't know if you guys saw that I have a broker that sends me the listings of and he puts what

his overages are and you can still for the most part like the question I asked previously about

non-limited edition cars that are they're going to probably always be selling for substantially over

as if they were limited edition GT3RS did you see what those things are still you you can

spec a new GT3RS through this broker but you got to pay 50 grand I mean that's pretty incredible

so we'll court McLaren overproduced and then they're also not enough dealerships

to service the cars so I'll suggest you the one of the biggest reasons that brand depreciated

like it did is because there weren't enough people to fix the cars and I can go into that because

you know one of the the service manager at one of the McLaren dealers in L.A. what used to be one

of my coaching clients and I used to talk to him about the problems and he couldn't get their

shit fixed they couldn't get the parts the couldn't you know with GM that's not a problem there's

GM dealerships everywhere so I'm you know I was just I'll just humbly suggest that all of us give

Corvette in particular some breathing room because I have a feeling they're about to

jump the shark as you just as you said earlier Paul and a meaningful way in the marketplace that's

my perception well the good thing that I will point out about Corvette the same as I pointed out

about some of the other cars is that it's causing the manufacturers that we really like

to work harder to make cars that are great and I will always it's just like I'm not a Tesla guy

but when Tesla came out they forced all all other electric car manufacturers to work harder

to improve charging infrastructure and also to improve range of their vehicles and I do believe

that that is important and McLaren is doing the same thing it's just like when I was afraid when

the Nissan R35 GTR came out against the 997 turbo back in the day I was afraid it was like we're

never going to sell a 997 turbo again because you can get this GTR thing for 75 grand but if

anything it just made Porsche make the cars better and that's something that I'm thankful for

McLaren and Corvette for doing so I wonder and I remember that too that people were

comparing to a 996 twin turbo I wonder if the younger generations are looking at the new Corvette

products at the same way that people that you know grew up with the you know the George's and the

you know all the things that Paul likes to harp on I wonder if the younger generations

going to see them the same way I'll suggest that they're not so that's that's all I've

say about that all right so moving on all right so are we going to do what what people think are

going to go up and value and not uh yeah let's do that you're right I'm off I'm off the at the

agenda so let's go ahead and do it I mean I'll be really quick every stupid 911 anniversary edition

which we brought up and there they all are if you want to see again 75 25th silver anniversary

they're celebrating what do you think they're celebrating in 75 any idea the war two Jimmy Carter

25th anniversary of being a sports car manufacturer which is hilarious because that makes it

1850 but everything else of them shows 1948 no 49 if you look back at history Porsche always struggles

were they making sports cars in 48 would you call it 49 or 50 so you'll see anniversary dates that

are actually wrong so this one you know boo it was just silver with some weird interior then you

get to the 89 silver anniversary edition oh this is a silver anniversary edition it's the 25th

anniversary edition also but wait that was two in 89 they're celebrating 25 years of making a 911

which goes back to 63 even though it was offered as a 64 the dates are crazy and by the way both

of these cars they were basically color stuff that you could actually order elsewhere to some

degree with the ugly interiors okay then we all love 964s who doesn't love a 964 wide body this

was the Jubilee edition which was celebrating the 30th anniversary of the 911 why because they couldn't

sell cars so they got it and these C4 bodies were leftover turbos that no one ordered and here's

the funny thing is you could order this car in this amethyst color or or or KC probably knows

the color but you could also order yeah you could also order it in like gray like if you didn't order

it in this color which was I think unique to the Jubilee edition like it's literally a badge

it's the same exact car that we got we didn't get this car in the US it was not for North America

touring was that color my 992 touring was that color was it amethyst no no it wasn't amethyst

final or metallic what is it the old metallic he decided yeah so it wasn't even that unique because

guess what you could order it on a different car and then mechanically now this was the first

anniversary edition the 40th in 2004 for the 996 was the first unique actual anniversary edition

I give the thumbs up because guess what it wasn't just a unique is the introduction of GT Silver

on a 911 you got these unique wheels but as KC knows you actually got really unique mechanical

parts it was like an X51 but with some different stuff and I still think to this day that it got

it no it got GT3 manifold in a few other bits but you don't see the the 40th anniversary editions

having Grenade in motors like like a lot of others doesn't have a Metzger motor and I think

there's more to that but guess what the market 45 45 grand all day long forever really long and

and the only and the only people who care are the people who own them and run the the registry

then you get to this car which now we're going back to oh it's just a GTS with colors and you get

gray which is cool with the Houndstooth or you get like a white or you get a black and if you order

a black one with blackful leather you got a GTS with a badge who the hell cares and now they finally

go to something that is actually unique now here's the irony this is technically internally called

60th anniversary do you hear anyone call this ST as 60th anniversary but it is actually when you

look at the internal documents it is the 60th anniversary but the only reason it has value

is because it is a special car and I think Porsche realized if we call it another anniversary edition

it will matter less than the fact that we call it an ST so in general going through all of these

stupid 911 anniversary editions when you look back um whoops when you look back over time no one

really cares the only ones they care right now ST is the new flavor they don't care about this

they don't care that much about that this one I don't know if it's that much more than a regular C4

plus we couldn't get it in North America they certainly don't care about that these prices maybe 20%

and it's really more of a when you compare it to a good GTS with PTS it's the same price and

well okay and defensive that last one that was slate gray and the slate gray with the

houndstooth interior was bad ass it was actually it was a guy's gray or guys are gray was the white

geyser was the creamy white one that one's called graphite gray right I like that car a lot

Paul I went to I saw that that car debut in Portugal and I really I've got so I've got a special

a special feeling for that car especially that was the first time they put papita in interiors

again so I do think that there was something special about that it wasn't papita it was like

it was houndstooth made out of seatbelt material because and then what most people were doing who

didn't order it they would just take the inserts out and they go get put real papita which looked

actually way better yes it had the cool early s green gauges but my problem with the car

it was cool but the thing was it didn't get anything special it wasn't like you got this special

engine or you you got like the forty th anniversary got a special engine the ST's got lots of special

bits those are the only two cars that mechanically got something unique versus just let's bundle a

bunch of shit together put a color that maybe you can't order right now but you can tomorrow on it

oh and we'll put some interior pieces which you think are unique but guess what in two years

you can put it on anything all right so that's a big problem this is segment for Paul's rant for

the day I know he's you could tell Paul to eat a lot better by the way mine's going to be real quick

all right so again segment for this is cars that won't go up value that people think are collectible

and by Casey are you sure you're right about that one being graphic gray and not slate gray

100% he's right Casey's right they couldn't it's a different color it's I'm glad you saved my

ass I was about to bet him a hundred dollars thank you I'll see you in two days I can certainly

cash in on that one so Paul saved me a hundred dollars losing a hundred dollars all right Casey

cars I'm ready to carry answer anything anything made in England that is made by an actual car

manufacturer you may not going up in money anything made in England that's owned by a Chinese car

man your factory will go up in value so what you're saying divide by zero you you define the terms

but the answer that's the answer unless it's something special like like a like a Gordon Murray or

something like that anything coming out unfortunately because I the cars are awesome I know Paul

rocks rocks one of them himself but unfortunately they're not going anywhere you that car behind

you Casey I'm interested in that car I know you've driven that car so for those that are listening

can you tell me what it is I'm a clearance center okay and so what is your honest opinion about

that as if we weren't recording right now so I know you take care of a few of those so what do you

think it's insane it is it is the most extreme car modern car that I have ever driven I've driven

short distances but I've driven veirons I mean there's there's like there are cars that

to me to make a car special it has to feel special within 10 feet and if the car does not

do something for me in 10 feet I lose interest that car the McLaren Senna from the seating position

to the fact that you could look through the doors to look through the ceiling that you can barely

put windows down it is insane I backed it back that with a modern Ford GT and they were both

tremendous experiences I think I preferred the GT only because it really felt like you were in

a limo or you were in a car that was about to race a 24 hour race where the McLaren did not feel

as such but the McLaren Senna is insane but I unless it's a extremely weird one off example like

the one that I look after I don't believe it's going to go up in value what's the market on this

right now you know mid ones for the world's coolest one if it's a GT are like the one that

our friend you and I have in common those are significantly more expensive but those are race car

only so where are those where do those originally cost the one that I look after I mean it's

exposed carbon fiber which was like a think of 280 thousand dollar option but it was probably

around one two if I recall okay so in essence that's the essence of the question and thank

and I still I agree with everything you said I think that cars totally and completely manically

cool and from stem to stern but I hear so many bad those cars are becoming hard to ensure like I've

heard I don't know about haggity but I heard some people with great driving records that you know

whole thing are having almost an impossible time unless it's one of 20 cars basically insurance

company knows they'll never use it to get those things insured because they're all carbon fiber

that you know the parts you all the things so as far as cars that I don't think that that I was

frankly some of these I was expecting to go up and value but never really have the number one is

that always the surprise me is an alpha 8c the alpha 8c especially in the coupe it's such a freaking

gorgeous car yes I get that it's just a mazerati underneath it sounds amazing it looks amazing

they didn't they made like I think they made 350 of both the spiders and the the the coups something

like that that's a limited edition car they've always been flat they've been 350 grand forever

and then I'll throw some other things you mentioned the Ford GT I think they made too many of

those new Ford GTs and the old Ford GTs are basically showing that they're you know they're going

to surpass the new Ford GTs and value I think do you guys have any opinions on that in particular

well I think I think the old Ford the old Ford GT was built under a different ethos they were just

like hey what can we do to revive just the idea of this but make a road car the problem with

the new Ford GT was they had their sights on homologation and they built a homologated race car that

it kind of looks more like Senna and supercar and it was like the flavor of the day when it came out

at cars and coffee and I don't know racing wise I don't think it did particularly great one

the mall I did it with the mall like three years in a row I'm pretty sure okay I wasn't sure but

anyway I just think for it's not a driver's car compared to the Ford and it also it's fairly new

it's in that weird period the new one's not a driver's car the old one's not a driver's car

I think the old one's a driver's car it's why but I've driven them they're they drive outside of

getting in and out of them and parking and just the weird door shit they're really awesome yeah

yeah you get guillotine by myself on the head multiple times closing the door yeah isn't the

obvious answer the manual transmission I mean the original car that's where I was gonna go I think

it's all about sense of occasion and drive air engagement 100% in the car the old ones have ground

clearance they have some rubber on the side of the tires you can't get tires for them anywhere

which is ridiculous it looked like the historic one they really look like the historic one the

new ones don't look like the historic one but here's the other thing is I noticed that when cars

are somewhere between like five years old and 15 years old they're kind of like when you get a

dog it's a puppy it's cute and when it's grown an adult it looks nice but it's in that weird

awkward adolescent age where the feet are too big it hasn't filled in it just looked dorky and I

think maybe we're that way with the new Ford GT it's not the latest thing it's not the coolest thing

it's not the fastest thing it's becoming something else and the other one was basically an iteration of

what was already proven right that makes sense in 1015 years who knows I mean I still think the

new accurate NSX is a is a bargain and it just got shit on by the the automotive you know journalist

world and I look at them I'm like man those are great cars for the money it's because Acura

stops taking on ads and car magazines ooh I said sorry all right so well I mean there's a car

magazine yeah other than triple zero and road and track 100 percent well I'll say I'll throw

this on too since Paul's team me up anything that the baby boomers thought were cool are not

going to go up in value for the most part it which breaks my heart frankly I love all of them

but we're seeing in case that you had on Instagram no no you had on whatsapp a picture of two red

nine sixty four RSS and I was interested because you said they drove different even though they're

the same car but those things have been dead money flat money for just I don't even know how long

years and years and years and so there's no reason in my opinion to believe that those cars are all

the sudden going to rediscover their audience to start going up in value I think the exact opposite

is true they're going to actually possibly go down in value discuss well I think the the unfortunate

thing is is a low mile RS America in the United States and a low mile career RS are almost the same

value which makes no sense and I don't I don't need to go down that because I don't want to offend

people but the so the two cars I had in the picture in our whatsapp I said it was the ultimate three

car solution and Paul gave me crowd about it because my Audi was in the middle and it was flanked by

two guards red nine sixty four RSS one was a basic which means that it's a normal one so with

what you do seats and that stuff and the other ones a club sport so they do drive very very

differently the club sport is of or NGT is significantly more rowdy but unfortunately

that era of RS just didn't didn't hit it in the United States and I feel a lot of the money is

dictated through our country are you and can I do I mean just curious about your opinion since you

deal in these things for a long time and you have and you will continue to I'm curious do you

think that the baby boomer you know poster cars are essentially dead money do you think there's

going to be they're going to find their audience again do you think long code 9-11's which I know

you're not really into but are those all the sudden going to just be discovered again and people

are in three fifty sixes oh that their day and the sun is yet to come I believe special cars

will continue to have can't exactly so seventy three RSS even though they are trending slightly

downward every once in a while you see one really hit it that's a really right car both of the 73

RSS that I look after are really right cars so I do believe that those will stay there because

that's an archetypal thing for a Porsche enthusiast being somebody that's 25 years old or somebody

that's 70 years old I believe that will transcend generations but yes a lot of the other cars are flat

I know you guys are not going to like this too but this is just my opinion right so I think the

transactional not the transactional porches are also going to suffer going forward because there's not

enough people it knows how to know how to work on people buy them thinking it's a cheap car

and then they can't the first service bill that gets going to shock them you know that type of

things the thing is Tim they never went up but in reality when you really really look at it

is that adjusted for inflation or real dollar so when you adjust for play I don't think they

really have changed they've always they've always been on the coattails of whatever 911 is a percentage

wise but like I thought I remember haggity put out two years ago the 968 was the one to watch and like

it went like did it did and that was it and it was like even even the club sports which I get

clients all the time saying like hey I want a transactional car sharing the club sport and I'm like

why do you know what a club sport is I would rather have like stuff that Casey had I would rather have

a 944 turbo that was a cup car that's a more interesting car so next week

because Paul that one did close which was a non-Rothman's car which made it cheaper the 38

Rothman's cars are worth a lot more but next week I believe you and I should argue 968 versus 944

yep I bring it but going back to your question Tim you know when we talked about old-timer

young-timer you know I'm seeing it first hand if when you have a 356 or a long hood that is

nothing special sad to say no one cares the only ones that they care about are if you you know

like you see right now 59 57 to 59 a coops have value because you can go build either give it to

Emory or go build something Emory go get a will Hoyt motor whatever it is or when you talk about

G-bodies you know mid years mid years have value because you're going to take this sort of weird

doggy thing and you're going to back date it you're going to do and yet another stupid singer

restomod which has value but outside of really special cars you look at prices of 308s unless it's

something special you know like a 288 GTO but like you know the 328s the 308s they went up in

value but when you really look at inflation and everything else I don't think they went up that

much in value e-types have been really flat unless it's a special alloy body so going across the

board anything that's 50 years old I think unless it's something special like you know even

even something more mundane our 73 Aber Jean car we just took a deposit on that because

it was unique and special but I was telling someone who didn't understand the value I'm like you

know if this was exactly the same condition but it was light ivory with zero history zero records

nothing just but exact same condition car just a nice high level survivor driver it would have been

worth 40% less because the collector wouldn't be there it would just be an enthusiast and the

enthusiasts who go why would I ask that so the so the dude that bought the Aber Jean car which I

think everyone will agree is stunning awesome how old is he he's probably in his late 50s early 60s

okay and so the that's you're making my point mean basically but I would say that the number of

people you're right the number of people are interested I were arranged anywhere from mid early 40s

to probably mid 60s the early 40s definitely we're all about it for the color and the guys who are

when you got to the 50s and 60s they were all about not just the color but the history the originality

the survivor part of it but the irony is you know right after yesterday we got this car this

moss green car which is nowhere near as nice as this car it's a but it's a cool nice two owner

California driver I mean the number of people that are all over this and what'll be really

interesting is today we're getting an 81 SC Targa black on black with 20,000 miles that is

arguably one of the top five air cool cars I've ever touched I sold it a few years ago it is

perfect I promise you it will get a tenth of the reaction that this moss green car got an interest

it will be and here's the funny thing is it won't it won't be a lot more money and it is technically

a better car but the collector is going to be like well 20,000 miles but it's just an 81 SC

black Targa who cares so yeah going back like what air cooled old that matters it's got to be

something really special let's check what check all the boxes let's move to segment six because

it's right in alignment with what we're talking about right now so segment six is old timers versus

young timers so there's a huge disparity between young timer cars 90s and newer but more specifically

2000 and newer values climbing while old timer classic 70s and older just static and soft some

decent deals down there what does your crystal ball tell you regarding the future values of pre 90s

cars and I want to make a note we should try to avoid talking so much about values on the next

full throttle talk because it does kind of take you know it makes it less fun because you don't

have to worry about the money while you're describing something that you have passed but let's

let's do talk about this so case do you go first what do you think you know as I've alluded to before

and kind of how I talked earlier regarding driving simulators I grew up in the era of

playing you know rad racer playing out run then moving to things like what grand charismo and

forza and those sorts of things and I believe the cars that are in that realm are going to

continue to increase in value I think cars that were also in movies from the era bad boys that

was my introduction to Porsche those types of cars are going to continue to trend in the upward

trajectory and especially the later that the cars came out the younger the people are the younger

when those young people get money those are going to be the cars that they chase after more so than maybe

very early 90s cars as we were discussing you know 964s before they 964s are I mean

probably the most expensive they've ever been maybe coming down a little bit just because

during covid it was huge money for 964s but I do believe that 2000s cars which is one of my favorite

errors like I think there's going to I think 3.8 liter RS's are going to keep shooting up I think

4 liters are going to keep going up I think maybe Paul would you agree or disagree that 996s are

going to continue to go up I think 996s will always be a relationship with the 997 it'll be the 914

of the modern world they really want a 997.2 it's the mid-year it's the mid-year it's the mid-year

and when they end up as a 996 because it gets them in the door and it's all they can afford

but but they would much rather I mean is there a cheaper 911 right now like 20 grand will buy

you a 996 is there any 911 ever ever built that you could buy it there is it's called 944 turbo

and that's and that's the answer and in the funny thing is you look at the 944 turbo the people

who are buying those are generally younger people who really want a vintage experience and that's

what they can afford well let me throw out some I've put some facts in our notes I just thought

this was fascinating so if you look at the amount of the wealth transfer that's going to be taking

place from baby boomers to their millennial kids it's something like on the order of 83 84 trillion

dollars depending on which you you know reread the stats and just that sheer amount of money

flowing to these people that are essentially only well primarily going to be interested in cars

that are frankly from 2004 probably that tells you where the market's going to go on anything that's

older than that so Paul and I are you know you're a millennial KC though you have a generation X vibe

frankly but I mean all Paul and I are generation X no one gives a crap about our little generation

and everyone's our generations lived in the shadows of the baby boomers but now everybody is

going to be living the shadows of the millennials for the next 20 years because if you you can just

follow them in the inheritance and all that money transferring but also whether preferences are

so if you're placing bets on what's going to be the next hot car for frankly a long period time

unfortunately it's not what a lot of us have really come to love except if you go to the extremes

the 997 GT3 RS so the GT3 RS for later all these special cars but the vast majority of these

I just feel like they're living in a bit of a bubble yeah I think you're right I think it's

and it goes back to what KC said their poster cars are not poster cars like it was to you and me Tim

their poster cards are the video game yep and that's what they're going to buy and I mean

is this part of the reason why roof is finally having its day I mean it goes back to grand trees

when we're Porsche was so protective of the brand that the only way grand treesmo could get a Porsche

thing was to roof said sure you could have it and so there's a whole generation of millennials that

may know roof more than they know Porsche or think that roof is Porsche which is crazy which is I

think is possibly tied into why roofs values have gone up 100% agree yeah so here's here's a

KC pop quiz Tim and Paul you are given one million dollars you cannot buy a car that's modern

not like let's say not in the last five years what car would you buy I need year and model

250 short wheelbase from GTO engineering I would buy a kind of reimagined

a Porsche 930 BTR from roof where they're rebuilding their old BTRs from the 80s okay I don't think

those are a million though I think those are double that no no no no they're like half of that

they're probably half a million really it's it's not like the seat it's not the yellow burden

stuff back in the 80s they would make BTRs these these 930s that were basically roof cars

and they weren't they weren't like flashy they made a lot of them and when I was there at roof

I saw one and it's basically a BTR from like 85 you know a German country origin and they were

taking it and refreshing it we basically restoring the whole car the engine instead I was talking

the engine guy because they had the engine in the dyno room he's like yeah instead of 350 horsepower

we're going to be easily doing 550 with you know EFI and all the modern tricks that they know

it's getting modern suspension and I think at the end of the day those are under a million dollars

because they made a for roof they made a fair amount of them so my so my question is 07 3RS

so my question leads back to this other than Tim which your car would go you are you're making

no I'm thinking 07 GT3RS for a million dollars no I mean I don't need to spend a million dollars

that's the car I get so yeah so so Paul when the 930 came out how were you

I was sorry when when this when this ish version of the usd to our team but like

okay in a perfect no no no no I came out it came out in 74 didn't it and you're no no no no not the

930 but the roof version of it they came out in the early 80s so you know 83 84 85 so you were

mid teens I was early teens early okay so I would have been in my 20s so Tim yours is a little bit

different because you're a little bit osoteric but the point I was trying to make is between

12 years old and 25 years old like that's really what you gravitate towards so when those kids

were when those kids were born in 1995 or 2000 they're going to be they're going to be dreaming

of this GT3RS this thing that that Dave's buying so that car at someday is going to be a $700,000

car because they're going to want those values to keep going up because people they're going

to be wrecked ones but the really really good ones are going to be big money so to that point

I really do think that car the modern GT3RS is more special than the ST set aside your manual transmission

versus non manual transmission and if you I've seen videos where people are walking you know put the

cars up on the left and you see all the due dads that are underneath the the RS a mass production

car 5500 or however many they're making carbon fiber this carbon fiber that people think those

RS parts are on the ST but they're not the front sway bar is steel the back sway bars carbon fiber

so I'm really just you know I think what you said is 100% right but I have my own pop quiz you

guys ready you like this one all right so pop quiz what is it a Porsche has offered some very

strange options which of these are real a glove hold on okay number one people are annoying all right

number one ready here we go a glove box cooler for champagne number two gold plated exhaust tips

that were only offered as an option in the middle east number three a condom dispenser number four

rhino four skin headliner okay which of those is weird or which of those weird options is real

a glove box cooler for champagne gold plated exhaust tips option in this option is only available

in the middle east okay a condom dispenser or a rhino four skin headliner Paul you go first

well not the last two I mean for many reasons um what are you for what reasons

well one I think the the PR thing of killing killing in danger species might not be a good idea

okay a good idea um that's true and you know and I can't remember well rolls roiced as coolers

but that's not part of Volkswagen auto group that's Bentley and I don't know if Bentley does it

I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with option one maybe in the cayenne or Panamera so no in cayenne

I think in the first generation there was an outlet that you could open or close that would

put cool air into the glove box so I think technically that could be a thing but being that you

said such a weird thing for a specific market I'm sure that if you people in the middle east like

one of those crazy uh crazy guys would throw a bunch of money at Porsche I'm sure they'd do

anything in gold uh so your choice was option B and Paul's choice was what a option A the the

champagne okay so Paul's right and this was this was one of the ones I thought of without using

uh AI to help me write the ones which I should have thought about the Rhino foreskin thing I

shouldn't have made that a less endangered species a condom dispenser of come on I mean there

it was funny but it was so obvious like there's no way the Germans are not that funny you know

it's it's just money it's special wishes you'd just give them a ton of money and they'll figure it

out probably not the Rhino one though no no no all right no matter how much money I'll do better

next time do you guys want to keep going yeah sure let's do it let's do a quick this or that I think

if that's good with you guys perfect yes Casey you do all right so this or that this is where

the guys will pose what they found or they're following online auctions usually and they're going to

ask you know you as a participant to choose this or that all right so Casey your first this or

that is a mgb yeah so I watched that TV show the studio on apple tv and absolutely loved it in one

of the episodes Seth Rogan's character is driving a gorgeous cp a colored mgb and ever since seeing

that I was like galley I think I could really deal with one of those so I found the nicest most

expensive mgb that I could find on bring a trailer it's the car behind me it closed it closed

hand for seven twenty eight so not a couple of months ago a beautiful car very well restored

sold for thirty five and change I think it's a it's a wonderful car with a tremendous

sense of occasion and then I thought to myself you know Tim says I'm an old soul I love that car

my first car was a spitfire I love British cars but the one car I almost died in when I was a

teenager was a carado so this car is a I can't find it so but it's it's an sLC it's it was big

money it went for thirty three grand it's in green and of course green cars sell for more money

this car had forty eight thousand miles stick all the right stuff with Paul's favorite wheels

so at the end of the day you're greeted with mid thirties for a car with tremendous

sense of occasion or a carado sLC technically the one almost died in was a g60 so that's a different

story I wouldn't much rather have almost died in an sLC than a g60 because they sound a lot better

I almost died in a in a carado also kc nice that we have to tell their stories at some point so

so that that's the this or that a beautiful mgb with wonderful sense of occasion

I I'll just tell you I'd pick the mgb but I have always loved carados and cars with vr6 motors

so that's that so Tim what would you pick bows are really tough choices because like you guys I

love both because you you own kind of both of them now I do also why I picked that yeah that's

very challenging and that one's a vr6 too the only thing would scare me off of that carado is

I bet it is impossible to find parts for it when it breaks and interior trims all that thing

and the mgb you can buy a complete shell there's a you can put a small rover v8 in that thing if you

wanted to of course they made the mgb gt I choose the I choose the mid at the uh that one for sure

at the mg uh I choose the carado of horrifying and wonderful memories when they first came out

you know the the one wealthy kid at college he's dad got him a brand new one when they come out 89

90 dare about to yeah yeah and and it was just I mean I loved I wanted a shirako so bad in my

opinion this was like the the modern shirako in that little spoiler that would come up in the

rear I mean that's like fair bones to a car guy it was so beautiful so cool so pretty yep I'll go

next uh so this or that can you guys help me out with pictures since I put put up the links can

one of you guys move uh there's one holes I think I got I think I got one of your cars because

I was gonna pick that car so I know so here here's the thing I was unbelievably shocked by this

okay so here's if you're just listing here's what we're looking at we're looking at a pts now

992.1 now um touring and I don't remember what the yellow is called that's yellow

Bahama Bahama yellow okay which better on an old car than a new car if I remember correctly at

sofa's it's not super crazy and all the rest of it but you know it's a beautiful car and then the

other one was hold on okay here we go I got you I got you right here all right there you go and

that is uh what's the green called birch birch green 991.2 GT3 uh obviously another touring and

let's just assume that they're both pts cars they both I don't know if that Bahama yellow car had

carbon ceramics there you go but the price spread on these cars was astonishing the older car sold

for three hundred and fifteen grand and the newer car sold for two hundred and eighty one thousand

that's before bat fees uh so I'm just is that the market is that just because I don't know the

oxygen like we talked about earlier production number scarcity wasn't limited edition but they

just made the the take rate on touring was everyone's scream they want a manual and when Porsche

goes here's your manual but Paul do you think over and over do you think they great I mean you

surprised me and Casey with the 600 if you're right about that which you probably are so do you

think the dude that was betting on those knew the production numbers of the 991.2 GT3 touring no

I think he may or may not know the production numbers I just maybe know he may have known it

subconsciously because he's been looking for a paint disample one for a while and by the way think

about it paint disample in eighteen and nineteen was just beginning to happen like fifth like and

the 991.1 like in fifteen I started to see paint disample and and back then by the way paint disample

was five grand 991.2 they moved paint disample to like ten or twelve grand and that kind of got

people going like do I really want it that bad so to get a touring which was already a low take

rate and paint disample I think that guy knew subconsciously low production because he was tired

of looking and that is why those paint disample 991.2s are going to be future clef any even Miami

blue which was standard is going to be collectible but look at that so three hundred fifteen grand for

your nine eleven money what are your options you could have bought in a same generation GT3 RS

there are a ton of things out there for that kind of money and he chose that I just I wonder if that's

I this might very well be the tipping point this is market shift I would say these cars

991.2 speedsters got to remember product wasn't a case you might know better production was cut

short because of covid this were you know 991.2 about seventeen yeah those were done before

covid but but but but like all of 991.2 you had set production year of seventeen 20 20 was the

beginning of it so you started getting them in the fall of nineteen so all the 991s would have

been done by then yeah so so the thought is there was only three years of 991.2 which is turning out

to be as we get older these are salt like 997.2 low production numbers they turn out to be really

great cars drivers cars that get hyped up by the journalists and they're set in supplies so low

it takes just a little bit of demand to freak them out I've owned both sold chime in here if I

did you and I owned them at the same time in between the two of them the 991.2 touring was the car

I always like driving more there was so many little first of all the size of the two cars I don't know

dimensionally how you know how much longer or wider but if you the wheelbase but if you look at

them side by side the new car looked like a whale just huge car I didn't like the rear wheel steer

I did like the way the car turned in the way the car turned in was awesome of course a lot of

that had to do the rear wheel steer when I drove the 991 it felt like it just felt so much more

live and visceral and oddly enough I could never find a good seating position in the 992 and I

easily found it in the 991 and I don't know if it was just me in my funky back or something else but

and so from a from a will I buy another one perspective which is a question you want to have on

the next podcast that would be what I regret selling when I get again yep yeah and and by the way

the friends I know who have 991.2 to rings who have done the same exact thing either had a good

experience like in the mountains in a 992 touring yes the double wishbone and all that and they

said at the end of the day yes maybe that car's faster on the track it said it it felt more aggressive

and more of a track focus car than 992 touring whereas a 991.2 they said felt more like the ethos of

what a touring should be and and and leading into kind of what my whole thing was I always struggled

with the touring I was like okay and in case you might know more about this but like okay they

took the wing off like did they redo the arrow on the bottom to compensate for the wing was there

anything on a touring they did yeah there was different 991.2 yeah there was changes in the front

then also the the degree at which the rear wing deploys on a touring is significantly more dramatic

than a normal C2 okay they certainly they certainly made it balanced for sure yep is it as balanced

as a fixed wing car probably not but um but yes it's it's dramatically different so Paul here's

a side business for you start buying those cars the GT3 is what you're selling far less spend the

five grand and start converting them all to touring and you know I've seen them in the mountains and

they and and you have to double take and uh the sad thing is going back to a case set if there's

really serious engineering to make the touring's handle properly now you take the wing off a wing

car are you actually causing some serious problems there was I said I had a guy I mean not not this but

I had a guy that um had a GT2 RS recently a 19 or an 18 won't either way but it had that rear wing

delete on it so they got rid of the rear wing and kind of put these carbon fiber things on the side

of it and I just thought to myself I would hate to drive that thing at speed who knows what that

thing is like because that was definitely not designed in a wind tunnel who are the guys they're like

I think uh Jerry Seinfeld took the wing off of his 991.2 GT2 RS and I think Kenapa had it for sale

so I mean we're talking about possibly some problems in regards to high speeds yeah I I've seen

actually 996 GT3s at cars and coffee I saw one where he made that into a touring and that's

already a car that has dynamic difficult handling issues no people don't know that that had traction

that that had no traction control only had ABS right and and I'm pretty sure that wing was very

functional even at speeds under 100 miles an hour but so going back so this kind of leads into

this or that with me I had two cars I had a 991.2 GT3 touring and a wing car both manuals both similar

miles this gray one let me pull up my numbers this gray touring 18 graphite graphite graphite

gray graphite well that's graphite blue is it graphite group gray it's called graphite gray graphite

gray paint the sample boring okay um it's sold it had a PCCB's you know ceramic brakes carbon buckets

it was $173,000 MSRP in 2018 with BAT fees it sold for 282,500 yep 282 500 for you know

this carbon bucket touring manual then on the other hand you had this 2018 same year so by the way

that one had the graphite one had 11,000 miles this one has 6,000 miles it had an MSRP of 160 it did

have ceramics it sold on p-car market both recently this one sold with fees for $216,000 so with fees

you're talking about what $65,000 difference so you could get this or you could go get this with a

968 club sport or you could go get it with a really nice 944 turbo S or you can go get a nice driver

SC I mean you can go get you could get an N6 turbo well what is a you guys will have to tell me

what is what are the 991.2 GT3 RS is what are they selling for now I really don't know

they're selling for three I thought they were oh yeah maybe I think they're in the twos right

so if you had to choose Paul between so which of those would you choose and why and then if you

had to choose between the winner of that choice and compare it to an RS of the same generation what

would you choose well I mean this one I would choose the wing car because number one I always

thought this was stupid I think this car is designed to have a wing I think it works better

it's still a manual and I'm going to save $70,000 $65,000 so I'll take that money

and have when you're behind the wheel I'm sorry same freaking experience oh wait no this one handles

better ultimately it handles better so it might gonna be like the darling at cars and coffee

I mean the irony is I watch people at cars and coffee with touring the walk right by and then the

lean over on the deck lid they'll see the little square badges says touring look oh touring

you know whereas I'll see them look into this car and they see the manual and they go oh a manual

I mean it this is the better car better value in terms of a GT2 RS of the same era three or GT3 RS

I've driven I've driven those they're so these are already unrealistically fast for for human

consumption that those are just to point like how much fun am I gonna have I'm not going to the

track with it it's too valuable I'll take this car all day long and park the money what do you

think Casey if in the mid two's range let's compare his touring his touring choice for 282 versus an

RS of the same generation which I think are about the same price what would you choose and why I'd

save 50 grand and buy a 2016 GT3 RS I think it's a better car you guys right it's it's it's a lot

more belligerent and if it's going to say RS on the back it might as well scare you and make

make snappy noises yeah the 16s are a lot more a lot more aggressive than the 19s are yeah that's

true good point all right so guys let's wrap we didn't break our old-time record for a long podcast

but we can uh did you guys have any listener questions or anybody Instagram do you guys

directly that you want to address just at a respect for the time they took no I had a number of

people reach out and said they were coming to loop so it's good to hear that listeners are

going to be making the trek a guy from oh I think it was wasn't it was the Kansas City area

knows Dave so he's coming out another listener from the Pittsburgh area is coming down to it's

going to be fun that's it let's get pocketfuls a full-trial talk sticker so we can hand him out

everywhere we go yeah we're gonna be there it's gonna be you've been to a lift before Casey air water

yeah I have a lift I think it's from what I'm hearing people talk about online it's going to be

fricking bonkers so I mean I'm excited about it you know anyway so I'll see you there for sure

I'm ambias take lots of pictures I can't wait to hear about it next week guys we will make that's

that might very well be the topic we should do that just to keep you know so any other questions

that you had in anyone else you want to know shout out okay good all right so listen listeners

thank you for joining us today for today's full-trial talk if you have any questions topics suggestions

do message us over on Instagram and remember all these guys contacts are down below full-trial

talk started out as a bit of a passion project project is growing into something I don't think any

of us really predicted it's all because of your continued support so do please subscribe to us on

YouTube or if you're on Instagram give us a follow in the meantime thank you for listening or

watching today's full-trial talk god bless you guys have a great week and I'll see you in two

days Casey you guys see you guys thank you guys

Limited Editions & Numbered Cars: Hype or Investment? Corvette vs McLaren + Porsche Values

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